I will also put my X against Angela Eagle (even though I think she's a lightweight) if it's a Corbyn vs Eagle choice.
Desperate, desperate times for progressive politics in this country.
You're worried about progressive politics on the day the Tories install the countries second female PM, while labour cowardice has seen them push a female stalking horse over a cliff
Any female ? Why not Harriet, Yvette, Caroline..........et al
Gosh, listening to Angela Eagle is painful, isnt it?
I actually tried to mimic her voice the other day and the nearest I managed involved speaking from the top of my throat. If she spoke from her chest or near her diaphragm - she'd sound totally different.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Cough. Worth covering certain candidates on odds slightly longer than 20s. (Shields post from Shadsy for benefit of fellow PBers).
Gosh, listening to Angela Eagle is painful, isnt it?
I actually tried to mimic her voice the other day and the nearest I managed involved speaking from the top of my throat. If she spoke from her chest or near her diaphragm - she'd sound totally different.
Meanwhile it's rallies, poppadoms and a side dish of Abbott for Jez
I will also put my X against Angela Eagle (even though I think she's a lightweight) if it's a Corbyn vs Eagle choice.
Desperate, desperate times for progressive politics in this country.
You're worried about progressive politics on the day the Tories install the countries second female PM, while labour cowardice has seen them push a female stalking horse over a cliff
Any female ? Why not Harriet, Yvette, Caroline..........et al
In the interests of balance, is there anyone who *doesn't* think Labour are doomed?
No they are not doomed.
I doubt anyone here excepting probably NP has ever tried to canvas votes in a Labour heartland seat. The attachment is emotional and familial with a strong dose of dependency.
Whoever owns the 'Labour Party' brand at the end of the current squabble will be one of the two parties of government in the UK. Comrade Jez is strategically correct to wait his enemies out.
Gosh, listening to Angela Eagle is painful, isnt it?
I actually tried to mimic her voice the other day and the nearest I managed involved speaking from the top of my throat. If she spoke from her chest or near her diaphragm - she'd sound totally different.
A bit like a Kipper pretending to be a Tory ...
Britain Firsters pretending to be moderates sound remarkably similar
Gosh, listening to Angela Eagle is painful, isnt it?
I actually tried to mimic her voice the other day and the nearest I managed involved speaking from the top of my throat. If she spoke from her chest or near her diaphragm - she'd sound totally different.
A bit like a Kipper pretending to be a Tory ...
Britain Firsters pretending to be moderates sound remarkably similar
At least I can now call Plato what she's called so many Tories she's disagreed with in the past: TINO!
Gosh, listening to Angela Eagle is painful, isnt it?
I actually tried to mimic her voice the other day and the nearest I managed involved speaking from the top of my throat. If she spoke from her chest or near her diaphragm - she'd sound totally different.
A bit like a Kipper pretending to be a Tory ...
Britain Firsters pretending to be moderates sound remarkably similar
At least I can now call Plato what she's called so many Tories she's disagreed with in the past: TINO!
Gosh, listening to Angela Eagle is painful, isnt it?
I actually tried to mimic her voice the other day and the nearest I managed involved speaking from the top of my throat. If she spoke from her chest or near her diaphragm - she'd sound totally different.
A bit like a Kipper pretending to be a Tory ...
Britain Firsters pretending to be moderates sound remarkably similar
At least I can now call Plato what she's called so many Tories she's disagreed with in the past: TINO!
Gosh, listening to Angela Eagle is painful, isnt it?
I actually tried to mimic her voice the other day and the nearest I managed involved speaking from the top of my throat. If she spoke from her chest or near her diaphragm - she'd sound totally different.
A bit like a Kipper pretending to be a Tory ...
Britain Firsters pretending to be moderates sound remarkably similar
At least I can now call Plato what she's called so many Tories she's disagreed with in the past: TINO!
Good to see Southam doing a lead piece and expanding our range of intelligent lead writers - surely one of the best in the political world.
SNIP
Incidentally, the problem with coronations is not that they result in a different choice, but that they don't get the membership buying into them. Corbyn's position is stronger than Gordon's would have been against a challenge, because Corbyn has a mandate. It's possible that if May runs into difficulties, she may wish she'd had one too.
Hypothetical as there was no challenge against Brown. There was a NCV against Corbyn which he lost 172-44. And he's still there. He has a mandate to remain from a tiny proportion of the electorate and a mandate to piss off from the vastly larger proportion of the Labour electorate represented by the 172.
How did Labour MP's vote in the election which he won?
Seems unlikely he got more than the 20-odd votes from his genuine nominees. But with 1M1V, we'll never know.
Oh I didn't realise there wasn't a way of knowing.
Well if all that's changed is that the MPs who didn't support him then are angry with him now, I would warn the Labour Party against overthrowing him for their own good. They might well lose a lot of committed support to gain a few approving nods from people that will vote Tory anyway
Total and utter rubbish. I'm sure some centrist sensible Conservatives would welcome his deposition on the basis that they believe in parliamentary democracy and upholding its principles. Indeed some will even go as far to say they don't want to see a great party of state destroyed despite being opponents of the party. Some Tories on here have said as much, and that does them great credit.
Yet the idea that the only key group who will celebrate Corbyn's departure are Tory voters is demonstrable rubbish. What about the millions of centrist and centre-left Labour supporters who are left cold by his insane far left agenda?
It seems your knowledge of the Labour coalition is equal or less than your grasp of the Omov system that elected Corbyn in the first place.
Life in a bubble
A pointless and vacuous response that fails to address a single point I have made.
Monty opens a door. Behind it is a pointless and vacuous response. Do you switch?
I would, but I guess you would not if the other two doors had democracy behind them.
I will also put my X against Angela Eagle (even though I think she's a lightweight) if it's a Corbyn vs Eagle choice.
Desperate, desperate times for progressive politics in this country.
You're worried about progressive politics on the day the Tories install the countries second female PM, while labour cowardice has seen them push a female stalking horse over a cliff
Any female ? Why not Harriet, Yvette, Caroline..........et al
You need to explain that response I'm afraid.
Someone wrote that Labour has not had a female PM, so we should vote in Angela Eagle. My point is: whilst it is a good idea to have a female LoTO, why should it have to be AE who finished 4th in the DLoTO last year.
The war is over, and yet still they fight on, like stranded Japanese soldiers in the jungle...
@IainDale: .@afneil@JohnRentoul Trade cannot possibly be Osborne. Has to be a Brexiter, as do Chancellor & Foreign Secretary IMHO.
Osborne could easily be Osborne
I agree. It's the only role he's really well suited for.
I will shed no tears if he is excluded from the cabinet, which my iPhone autocorrected to canine.
Before the GE I suggested that Osborne was acting as the Austerity Chancellor, so that whoever took over would not have that pain on their shoulders. His recent abandonment of he deficit reduction after Brexit seems to be the final move in that plan - although he'd undoubtedly have preferred it if he'd actually managed to reduce the deficit!
Expect the next chancellor not to want to navigate the stormy seas of debt, and instead fend off the oily oceans of a recession.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Someone who looks like a PM in waiting might be helpful.
Tim Farron is just plain silly - trying to force an election as the Government does not have a mandate to take us out of Europe
Regardless of what Mr Farron thinks, It's very much in Theresa's interests to have a workable majority with the bastards onside - especially since the politics of the next few years will be on the bastards territory.
Right now she has a tiny majority, the bastards are in disarray, with the media still gunning for them - and the nutters opposite her are in civil war.
If you were Theresa May, why wouldn't you call an election?
Recent polls have a Tory lead of 4%-8%, would that be enough to be confident that they'll improve their position? There could also still be a bit of a Brexit hangover for remain (Lib Dems) and leave (UKIP)
I would expect double digit leads within a month. It will soon be 40%'s for the Conservatives, unless Mrs May upsets the LEAVErs badly.
Gosh, listening to Angela Eagle is painful, isnt it?
I actually tried to mimic her voice the other day and the nearest I managed involved speaking from the top of my throat. If she spoke from her chest or near her diaphragm - she'd sound totally different.
A bit like a Kipper pretending to be a Tory ...
Britain Firsters pretending to be moderates sound remarkably similar
At least I can now call Plato what she's called so many Tories she's disagreed with in the past: TINO!
Whats TINO
Tory in name only
Thanks - really should have guessed that
Before they were insisting that a BREXITEER must be PM, some were saying May was RINO - Remain ino
You seem very sure May is going to sell Brexit out
Not at all. I am convinced she is going to deliver the best possible Out we can get.
What is cheering me up is that the IDS resurrection is over, as I am equally confident he and his team would have delivered the worst possible Out we could get.
It seems quite amazing to me that we don't have a scooby what sort of out she would even prefer because she has never been put on the spot by the leadership process.
She really has gone through the whole loop without really being questioned. Not her fault though. Everyone knifed each other out. She just walked through the carnage.
If at the next election I have a choice between an hard left Labour party and moderate Labour party(committed to Leaving the E.U) I will vote for the former. However they could split the vot in which case my seat becomes a marginal again and voting Conservative means I could actually get a Tory MP in Ealing North.
A lot comes down to which way Steven Pound MP deciedes to stand as I think he has built up a strongish personal vote and also on who gets the brand.
Most Labour MPs will lose their seats, if both wings use a full slate. I don't think any Labour seat will be safe.
Then I would vote tory, but I can't see the anti-corbyns splitting because 1) The pro-Corbyn party would recieve huge funds from the unions 2) They need an absolute garuntee that they will get the Labour brand without which they are doomed and they know it. It is worth as a base around 25% of the vote in a GE.
I don't see any positive in the Labour party basically destroying itself. This isn't usual party-infighting which a party at some stage can actually come back from. This is basically the Labour party ensuring that for the foreseeable future, we have no real tangible opposition to HM's government. We will rely on the press as the political opposition, which for me doesn't seem too ideal for a country which considers itself a parliamentary democracy. The Labour party will most likely split, and FPTP will punish both 'Labour' parties - but especially the breakaway party - severely for this. Once Corbyn wins the leadership contest, I have no idea how he will even begin to construct a shadow cabinet. I can easily see mass deselections happening. Corbyn will be emboldened in victory, and realise that a PLP without other militant leftists such as himself will be impossible to work with. The Labour party as we know it is over.
What this tells you, is that much of the Labour party membership really does not have the working class' best interests at heart. Those who do, understand that the most effective way to improve the lives of the poorest and vulnerable people in this country is through government. Those who seek Labour to become some sort bizarre 'movement' have yet to explain how Labour being a social movement which ignores parliamentary democracy will be more effective in changing people's lives for the better. The SNP, the most competent centre-left force in the country is an option only Scots can vote for. UKIP's fox has basically been shot, and they seem unable to successfully organise themselves to even get to LD levels of success under Charles Kennedy, let alone be the main opposition. The LDs are totally irrelevant.
I can only hope that May is as competent and as much of a 'One Nation' Tory as she appears to be.
I doubt anyone here excepting probably NP has ever tried to canvas votes in a Labour heartland seat.
I spent the much of 2014 and 2015 doing better than that, canvassing votes and running the campaign in the only seat that Labour gained off the Tories in the entire West or East Midlands.
Whoever owns the 'Labour Party' brand at the end of the current squabble will be one of the two parties of government in the UK. Comrade Jez is strategically correct to wait his enemies out.
I don't honestly think that I'll see another Labour government should Corbyn prevail. Labour will be further from government now than the party was in the immediate aftermath of the 1983 general election, the difference from 1983 being that Militant is now running the leader's office, that most of that brand loyalty is long gone and that should there be a political realignment far more than 10% of the party's MPs will leave.
You seem very sure May is going to sell Brexit out
Not at all. I am convinced she is going to deliver the best possible Out we can get.
What is cheering me up is that the IDS resurrection is over, as I am equally confident he and his team would have delivered the worst possible Out we could get.
Tim Farron is just plain silly - trying to force an election as the Government does not have a mandate to take us out of Europe
Regardless of what Mr Farron thinks, It's very much in Theresa's interests to have a workable majority with the bastards onside - especially since the politics of the next few years will be on the bastards territory.
Right now she has a tiny majority, the bastards are in disarray, with the media still gunning for them - and the nutters opposite her are in civil war.
If you were Theresa May, why wouldn't you call an election?
Recent polls have a Tory lead of 4%-8%, would that be enough to be confident that they'll improve their position? There could also still be a bit of a Brexit hangover for remain (Lib Dems) and leave (UKIP)
I would expect double digit leads within a month. It will soon be 40%'s for the Conservatives, unless Mrs May upsets the LEAVErs badly.
Recess begins in less than a fortnight. Then its conference season, barring a serious gaffe - I can't see much change after a polling boost.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Someone who looks like a PM in waiting might be helpful.
Yes, well they've got one sitting on the back benches, but they don't want to select her.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Someone who looks like a PM in waiting might be helpful.
Mr. Jessop, if the Conservatives win in 2020, which seems possible, Cameron may wish to delay to avoid damaging the Party [I think it matters less when your party's in opposition and the winner was from a different wing of the party].
If at the next election I have a choice between an hard left Labour party and moderate Labour party(committed to Leaving the E.U) I will vote for the former. However they could split the vot in which case my seat becomes a marginal again and voting Conservative means I could actually get a Tory MP in Ealing North.
A lot comes down to which way Steven Pound MP deciedes to stand as I think he has built up a strongish personal vote and also on who gets the brand.
Most Labour MPs will lose their seats, if both wings use a full slate. I don't think any Labour seat will be safe.
Then I would vote tory, but I can't see the anti-corbyns splitting because 1) The pro-Corbyn party would recieve huge funds from the unions 2) They need an absolute garuntee that they will get the Labour brand without which they are doomed and they know it. It is worth as a base around 25% of the vote in a GE.
The pro-Corbyn party will not get huge funds from the Unions. Quite a few could change. The critical mass will be how many MPs are involved in the new "party". If it is less than 116, then it will be just SDP Mk2 and it will slowly wither away. If it is more than 116 and has an arrangement with the Lib Dems [ 450 -200, say ], then it could win seats. Maybe , as many as 100.
The Tories would definitely get a majority of, at least, 100. It is the following election, which will be interesting.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Someone who looks like a PM in waiting might be helpful.
Unfortunately for Labour anyone who looks remotely like a "PM in waiting" will be denounced as a 'Red Tory' scum and so forth.
Tim Farron is just plain silly - trying to force an election as the Government does not have a mandate to take us out of Europe
Regardless of what Mr Farron thinks, It's very much in Theresa's interests to have a workable majority with the bastards onside - especially since the politics of the next few years will be on the bastards territory.
Right now she has a tiny majority, the bastards are in disarray, with the media still gunning for them - and the nutters opposite her are in civil war.
If you were Theresa May, why wouldn't you call an election?
Recent polls have a Tory lead of 4%-8%, would that be enough to be confident that they'll improve their position? There could also still be a bit of a Brexit hangover for remain (Lib Dems) and leave (UKIP)
I would expect double digit leads within a month. It will soon be 40%'s for the Conservatives, unless Mrs May upsets the LEAVErs badly.
Recess begins in less than a fortnight. Then its conference season, barring a serious gaffe - I can't see much change after a polling boost.
We will have all the endless Labour machinations going on and on and on.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Someone who looks like a PM in waiting might be helpful.
Yes, well they've got one sitting on the back benches, but they don't want to select her.
What do you possibly gain in running Eagle ahead of Yvette btw ?
I'm guessing Tom Watson has persuaded Eagle to lay down her political life. Bit cowardly that he didn't do it himself - I think he might have half a chance vs Jezza.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Someone who looks like a PM in waiting might be helpful.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Someone who looks like a PM in waiting might be helpful.
Unfortunately for Labour anyone who looks remotely like a "PM in waiting" will be denounced as a 'Red Tory' scum and so forth.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Someone who looks like a PM in waiting might be helpful.
Yes, well they've got one sitting on the back benches, but they don't want to select her.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Someone who looks like a PM in waiting might be helpful.
Like??
Hilary Benn
You're joking. Even Keir would be better than him granted he's from that north London clique but still he can't hold a candle to his late father.
You seem very sure May is going to sell Brexit out
Not at all. I am convinced she is going to deliver the best possible Out we can get.
What is cheering me up is that the IDS resurrection is over, as I am equally confident he and his team would have delivered the worst possible Out we could get.
It seems quite amazing to me that we don't have a scooby what sort of out she would even prefer because she has never been put on the spot by the leadership process.
She really has gone through the whole loop without really being questioned. Not her fault though. Everyone knifed each other out. She just walked through the carnage.
This whole process has frankly been a disgrace to democracy.When you put the media crucifixion of Leadsom against the backdrop of the Jo Cox murder,Farage being harassed into quitting,the bullying of MPs by momentum ; the vitriol on twitter etc you have to wonder whether our democracy is going to survive in its current form.
Tim Farron is just plain silly - trying to force an election as the Government does not have a mandate to take us out of Europe
Regardless of what Mr Farron thinks, It's very much in Theresa's interests to have a workable majority with the bastards onside - especially since the politics of the next few years will be on the bastards territory.
Right now she has a tiny majority, the bastards are in disarray, with the media still gunning for them - and the nutters opposite her are in civil war.
If you were Theresa May, why wouldn't you call an election?
Recent polls have a Tory lead of 4%-8%, would that be enough to be confident that they'll improve their position? There could also still be a bit of a Brexit hangover for remain (Lib Dems) and leave (UKIP)
I would expect double digit leads within a month. It will soon be 40%'s for the Conservatives, unless Mrs May upsets the LEAVErs badly.
Recess begins in less than a fortnight. Then its conference season, barring a serious gaffe - I can't see much change after a polling boost.
We will have all the endless Labour machinations going on and on and on.
Will there be a market on Labour's lowest polling score? This whole year has been beyond the looking glass
I doubt anyone here excepting probably NP has ever tried to canvas votes in a Labour heartland seat.
I spent the much of 2014 and 2015 doing better than that, canvassing votes and running the campaign in the only seat that Labour gained off the Tories in the entire West or East Midlands.
Well done. Was it a marginal or (penultimately&previously) Labour for 50y+ ? I was referencing the latter type of seat & it's habitual labour voters.
Yep. She's not wonderful, and she's certainly not my cup of tea, but at least she'd be a perfectly credible alternative PM. You can easily picture her handling PMQs well, representing the UK at international summits, chairing COBRA, or speaking on behalf of the nation when major events occur. There aren't many other Labour MPs of whom one can say that.
You seem very sure May is going to sell Brexit out
Not at all. I am convinced she is going to deliver the best possible Out we can get.
What is cheering me up is that the IDS resurrection is over, as I am equally confident he and his team would have delivered the worst possible Out we could get.
It seems quite amazing to me that we don't have a scooby what sort of out she would even prefer because she has never been put on the spot by the leadership process.
She really has gone through the whole loop without really being questioned. Not her fault though. Everyone knifed each other out. She just walked through the carnage.
This whole process has frankly been a disgrace to democracy.When you put the media crucifixion of Leadsom against the backdrop of the Jo Cox murder,Farage being harassed into quitting,the bullying of MPs by momentum ; the vitriol on twitter etc you have to wonder whether our democracy is going to survive in its current form.
Part of being suitable to be PM is being experienced enough to handle the media without inadvertently or otherwise saying something that causes a shitstorm.
Yep. She's not wonderful, and she's certainly not my cup of tea, but at least she'd be a perfectly credible alternative PM. You can easily picture her handling PMQs well, representing the UK at international summits, chairing COBRA, or speaking on behalf of the nation when major events occur. There aren't many other Labour MPs of whom one can say that.
Ironically, another point I agree with Richard. She is, by far, the most capable of the lot. Shame her husband is not in the HoC.
Dear all - many thanks for your very kind comments and incisive criticisms. This is how I would have ended the article in a slightly longer form:
Sadly, though, I suspect that I will be on the losing side. Labour members will choose the extra-Parliamentary route and the party is likely to go into the next general election as a movement rather than one that aspires to govern. If that election comes soon, Jeremy Corbyn will once again sit in front of a parliamentary party that has no confidence in him, but which he and his allies can – through deselections actual and threatened – mould into something new. If May waits, that process will take place during the current Parliament. What happens then will have to be the subject of a different piece penned sometime in the future.
My view is that if Corbyn does win again, Labour is bound to split, if only because a number of current Labour MPs are going to be deselected and will no longer sit on the labour benches. Others will join them. Corbyn and his allies will welcome that split. They want to take Labour onto the streets. Parliament is bourgeois. Socialism will only be delivered when the proletariat rise up. A few more years of Tory rule should hasten that. I'd laugh at the stupidity if it were not so sad.
I am 52, Corbyn is 67. I will not live to see another Labour government; Jezza will not live to see his socialist revolution. If I am lucky, a new party of the centre left may govern before I snuff it, but I am not counting in it. Thirty-five very stupid Labour MPs effectively destroyed their party by opening it up to the hard left and assorted useful idiots. They must hate themselves. I genuinely feel sorry for them.
On another note, my Twitter account has never seen such action. The power of Political Betting :-)
Gosh, listening to Angela Eagle is painful, isnt it?
I actually tried to mimic her voice the other day and the nearest I managed involved speaking from the top of my throat. If she spoke from her chest or near her diaphragm - she'd sound totally different.
A bit like a Kipper pretending to be a Tory ...
Britain Firsters pretending to be moderates sound remarkably similar
At least I can now call Plato what she's called so many Tories she's disagreed with in the past: TINO!
Whats TINO
Tory in name only
Thanks - really should have guessed that
Big John Owls would call the Labour Right Lino. I'll let you do the jokes about the party's rules allowing that grouping to be walked all over.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Someone who looks like a PM in waiting might be helpful.
Unfortunately for Labour anyone who looks remotely like a "PM in waiting" will be denounced as a 'Red Tory' scum and so forth.
Quite. It's an invidious position.
They don’t even need to look like a PM in waiting, Ms Eagle’s Twitter feed has been wall to wall vitriol by Momentum for the best part of the day – she’s in for a very tough ride imo.
''You can easily picture her handling PMQs well, representing the UK at international summits, chairing COBRA, or speaking on behalf of the nation when major events occur. There aren't many other Labour MPs of whom one can say that. ''
Your definition of what makes a modern PM is fascinating, and revealing.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Someone who looks like a PM in waiting might be helpful.
Unfortunately for Labour anyone who looks remotely like a "PM in waiting" will be denounced as a 'Red Tory' scum and so forth.
Any Labour MP who is remotely centrist will be playing a very careful game. There should be lots of talk of both the good of the party and the good of the country, whilst reacting to Corbyn's problems with sorrow. They should not be anywhere near whoever wields the knife.
Any MP capable of this balancing act would have many of the skills they would require to be PM.
Yep. She's not wonderful, and she's certainly not my cup of tea, but at least she'd be a perfectly credible alternative PM. You can easily picture her handling PMQs well, representing the UK at international summits, chairing COBRA, or speaking on behalf of the nation when major events occur. There aren't many other Labour MPs of whom one can say that.
Ironically, another point I agree with Richard. She is, by far, the most capable of the lot. Shame her husband is not in the HoC.
But Yvette would do.
I highly suspect Balls will be back if Corbyn has gone.
You seem very sure May is going to sell Brexit out
Not at all. I am convinced she is going to deliver the best possible Out we can get.
What is cheering me up is that the IDS resurrection is over, as I am equally confident he and his team would have delivered the worst possible Out we could get.
It seems quite amazing to me that we don't have a scooby what sort of out she would even prefer because she has never been put on the spot by the leadership process.
She really has gone through the whole loop without really being questioned. Not her fault though. Everyone knifed each other out. She just walked through the carnage.
This whole process has frankly been a disgrace to democracy.When you put the media crucifixion of Leadsom against the backdrop of the Jo Cox murder,Farage being harassed into quitting,the bullying of MPs by momentum ; the vitriol on twitter etc you have to wonder whether our democracy is going to survive in its current form.
Part of being suitable to be PM is being experienced enough to handle the media without inadvertently or otherwise saying something that causes a shitstorm.
My point is much wider than that.The Media are only part of the problem though their viciousness and destructiveness seems to grow by the day and in my view is both reflecting and fuelling the hatred we are seeing generally in the political process .
Dear all - many thanks for your very kind comments and incisive criticisms. This is how I would have ended the article in a slightly longer form:
Sadly, though, I suspect that I will be on the losing side. Labour members will choose the extra-Parliamentary route and the party is likely to go into the next general election as a movement rather than one that aspires to govern. If that election comes soon, Jeremy Corbyn will once again sit in front of a parliamentary party that has no confidence in him, but which he and his allies can – through deselections actual and threatened – mould into something new. If May waits, that process will take place during the current Parliament. What happens then will have to be the subject of a different piece penned sometime in the future.
My view is that if Corbyn does win again, Labour is bound to split, if only because a number of current Labour MPs are going to be deselected and will no longer sit on the labour benches. Others will join them. Corbyn and his allies will welcome that split. They want to take Labour onto the streets. Parliament is bourgeois. Socialism will only be delivered when the proletariat rise up. A few more years of Tory rule should hasten that. I'd laugh at the stupidity if it were not so sad.
I am 52, Corbyn is 67. I will not live to see another Labour government; Jezza will not live to see his socialist revolution. If I am lucky, a new party of the centre left may govern before I snuff it, but I am not counting in it. Thirty-five very stupid Labour MPs effectively destroyed their party by opening it up to the hard left and assorted useful idiots. They must hate themselves. I genuinely feel sorry for them.
On another note, my Twitter account has never seen such action. The power of Political Betting :-)
I see at least two Lab MPs have followed you on Twitter.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Someone who looks like a PM in waiting might be helpful.
Like??
Hilary Benn
You're joking. Even Keir would be better than him granted he's from that north London clique but still he can't hold a candle to his late father.
actually I take that back, his debating during the Syrian debate was persuasive.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Someone who looks like a PM in waiting might be helpful.
Unfortunately for Labour anyone who looks remotely like a "PM in waiting" will be denounced as a 'Red Tory' scum and so forth.
Quite. It's an invidious position.
They don’t even need to look like a PM in waiting, Ms Eagle’s Twitter feed has been wall to wall vitriol by Momentum for the best part of the day – she’s in for a very tough ride imo.
Her CLP has already held a vote - and backed Corbyn. She's a dead cert for deselection right now. I remain one of the few who rather likes her, despite everything.
I don't normally follow Twitter (another thing Cameron got right), but Mensch's feed has been funny. The last time we saw political repositioning so fast was Nick's transfer from electable Blairism to unelectable Corbynism.
That kind of thinking is, frankly, indulgent. Political parties should not aspire to be pure expressions of democracy; they should be vehicles through which democracy can work. An excessive regard for members' views misses the point of what a party is for.
If members don't decide what the party is for, who does? Do you envisage a sort of deus ex machina? It can't be the MPs, who as I and every other MP and ex-MP well know are mostly elected not for their great wisdom and thought but because they represent their parties. If they in turn were to decide the purpose of the party, we would have a completely empty circular phenomenon.
The issue hasn't arisen very often since it's usually pretty well-defined what parties are for, and people join them accotrdingly and sit comfortably in them as MPs or ordinary members. But in a time of questioning of orthodox thinking, who decides if a party should change?
The members will decide what Labour is for. That is the entire basis of my article. If they re-elect Corbyn they will have decided that Labour should primarily be an extra-parliamentary movement that focuses on promoting their views rather than on aspiring to be a party of government. As a result, Labour will continue to lose seats, votes, relevance and influence. But the members will feel good about themselves, so that's a positive :-)
Should we consider possibly Andrea Leadsom as next Chancellor for the betting markets? She's come out of this with some credit and the one thing everyone seems to agree is she is very financially literate and aware which could be useful for a Chancellor in these times.
Are you being serious ?
Yes. Leader is a step too far, but she could do a good job as a cabinet member and her expertise is in finance which could be useful in these times.
No - as she herself has said she spent 10 years at Invesco writing compensation agreements i.e. her expertise is in HR. We need a real expert to deal with financial services. If she has to be in Cabinet, somewhere where she can do no harm is the best bet. She's shown she can't deal with even the tiniest bit of pressure. We don't need a flaky drama queen in an important role.
I'm wonderIng if Lord (Neil) Kinnock might put himself forward. In good health, only a year or two older than Corbyn, widely respected in party. Could serve a couple of years implement reforms to sort the mess out and stand down in late 2018 to give his sucsessor time to bed in before 2020 election?
I cant think of anyone else who could avoid utter disaster. Batley means he could resign from Lords and be parachuted into commons unopposed.
That kind of thinking is, frankly, indulgent. Political parties should not aspire to be pure expressions of democracy; they should be vehicles through which democracy can work. An excessive regard for members' views misses the point of what a party is for.
If members don't decide what the party is for, who does? Do you envisage a sort of deus ex machina? It can't be the MPs, who as I and every other MP and ex-MP well know are mostly elected not for their great wisdom and thought but because they represent their parties. If they in turn were to decide the purpose of the party, we would have a completely empty circular phenomenon.
The issue hasn't arisen very often since it's usually pretty well-defined what parties are for, and people join them accotrdingly and sit comfortably in them as MPs or ordinary members. But in a time of questioning of orthodox thinking, who decides if a party should change?
The members will decide what Labour is for. That is the entire basis of my article. If they re-elect Corbyn they will have decided that Labour should primarily be an extra-parliamentary movement that focuses on promoting their views rather than on aspiring to be a party of government. As a result, Labour will continue to lose seats, votes, relevance and influence. But the members will feel good about themselves, so that's a positive :-)
I think Labour needs to do away with the £3 voters and moving back to an electoral college. MPs get 40% of the say and members/union members share the remainder.
One minor point, though: there seems to be an assumption in the article that the choice is going to be Eagle or Corbyn, but others might fancy their chances as well. Indeed someone else who hasn't been actively involved in trying to dislodge Corbyn might have a better chance of beating him, if he stands. And if he doesn't or isn't able to stand, there would be even more room for other candidates.
Someone who looks like a PM in waiting might be helpful.
Like??
Hilary Benn
You're joking. Even Keir would be better than him granted he's from that north London clique but still he can't hold a candle to his late father.
actually I take that back, his debating during the Syrian debate was persuasive.
Funnily enough, I mentioned Keir to a politically very engaged Labour member the other day - he said Who?
I mentioned his background - CPS etc and still blank face, he has R5 as his default in-car listening. I was really surprised.
Yep. She's not wonderful, and she's certainly not my cup of tea, but at least she'd be a perfectly credible alternative PM. You can easily picture her handling PMQs well, representing the UK at international summits, chairing COBRA, or speaking on behalf of the nation when major events occur. There aren't many other Labour MPs of whom one can say that.
Ironically, another point I agree with Richard. She is, by far, the most capable of the lot. Shame her husband is not in the HoC.
But Yvette would do.
I highly suspect Balls will be back if Corbyn has gone.
However, I cannot see Balls can come back because Corbyn will win. The new party can only stop Corbyn's Labour winning but not win themselves. 2025 could be slightly different.
One of the first tasks to confront a new prime minister, after an audience with the Queen, is to write “the letter of last resort” ... As prime minister, with ultimate responsibility for Britain’s nuclear deterrent, May has to write the letter, in her own hand, giving quite detailed instructions about what the UK’s response should be in the event of a pre-emptive nuclear attack.
I'm wonderIng if Lord (Neil) Kinnock might put himself forward. In good health, only a year or two older than Corbyn, widely respected in party. Could serve a couple of years implement reforms to sort the mess out and stand down in late 2018 to give his sucsessor time to bed in before 2020 election?
I cant think of anyone else who could avoid utter disaster. Batley means he could resign from Lords and be parachuted into commons unopposed.
Any odds available?
No, I proposed the same idea a few days ago. No sign of a book available on it. It is a good idea.
Comments
I will shed no tears if he is excluded from the cabinet, which my iPhone autocorrected to canine.
In normal times we'd have a daily US thread, but the last White House thread was nearly six weeks ago.
I think you are taking the Piss
Expect the next chancellor not to want to navigate the stormy seas of debt, and instead fend off the oily oceans of a recession.
I don't see any positive in the Labour party basically destroying itself. This isn't usual party-infighting which a party at some stage can actually come back from. This is basically the Labour party ensuring that for the foreseeable future, we have no real tangible opposition to HM's government. We will rely on the press as the political opposition, which for me doesn't seem too ideal for a country which considers itself a parliamentary democracy. The Labour party will most likely split, and FPTP will punish both 'Labour' parties - but especially the breakaway party - severely for this. Once Corbyn wins the leadership contest, I have no idea how he will even begin to construct a shadow cabinet. I can easily see mass deselections happening. Corbyn will be emboldened in victory, and realise that a PLP without other militant leftists such as himself will be impossible to work with. The Labour party as we know it is over.
What this tells you, is that much of the Labour party membership really does not have the working class' best interests at heart. Those who do, understand that the most effective way to improve the lives of the poorest and vulnerable people in this country is through government. Those who seek Labour to become some sort bizarre 'movement' have yet to explain how Labour being a social movement which ignores parliamentary democracy will be more effective in changing people's lives for the better. The SNP, the most competent centre-left force in the country is an option only Scots can vote for. UKIP's fox has basically been shot, and they seem unable to successfully organise themselves to even get to LD levels of success under Charles Kennedy, let alone be the main opposition. The LDs are totally irrelevant.
I can only hope that May is as competent and as much of a 'One Nation' Tory as she appears to be.
The Tories would definitely get a majority of, at least, 100. It is the following election, which will be interesting.
I'm guessing Tom Watson has persuaded Eagle to lay down her political life. Bit cowardly that he didn't do it himself - I think he might have half a chance vs Jezza.
Was it a marginal or (penultimately&previously) Labour for 50y+ ?
I was referencing the latter type of seat & it's habitual labour voters.
Arguably labour would be doing so without theirs.
Pam Ayres @PamAyres
Now its just a one-horse race,
Andrea couldn't stand the pace,
See our future shining plainer,
Leaving led by a Remainer.
But Yvette would do.
Tories: Dave gone, Boris gone, Gove gone, Leadsom gone, May in
Lab: Just got round to starting contest & haven't agreed rules
Sadly, though, I suspect that I will be on the losing side. Labour members will choose the extra-Parliamentary route and the party is likely to go into the next general election as a movement rather than one that aspires to govern. If that election comes soon, Jeremy Corbyn will once again sit in front of a parliamentary party that has no confidence in him, but which he and his allies can – through deselections actual and threatened – mould into something new. If May waits, that process will take place during the current Parliament. What happens then will have to be the subject of a different piece penned sometime in the future.
My view is that if Corbyn does win again, Labour is bound to split, if only because a number of current Labour MPs are going to be deselected and will no longer sit on the labour benches. Others will join them. Corbyn and his allies will welcome that split. They want to take Labour onto the streets. Parliament is bourgeois. Socialism will only be delivered when the proletariat rise up. A few more years of Tory rule should hasten that. I'd laugh at the stupidity if it were not so sad.
I am 52, Corbyn is 67. I will not live to see another Labour government; Jezza will not live to see his socialist revolution. If I am lucky, a new party of the centre left may govern before I snuff it, but I am not counting in it. Thirty-five very stupid Labour MPs effectively destroyed their party by opening it up to the hard left and assorted useful idiots. They must hate themselves. I genuinely feel sorry for them.
On another note, my Twitter account has never seen such action. The power of Political Betting :-)
Your definition of what makes a modern PM is fascinating, and revealing.
Any MP capable of this balancing act would have many of the skills they would require to be PM.
Always was.
Didn't you know?
27 minutes ago:
I'm a Tory #partyofgovernment
I'm wonderIng if Lord (Neil) Kinnock might put himself forward. In good health, only a year or two older than Corbyn, widely respected in party. Could serve a couple of years implement reforms to sort the mess out and stand down in late 2018 to give his sucsessor time to bed in before 2020 election?
I cant think of anyone else who could avoid utter disaster. Batley means he could resign from Lords and be parachuted into commons unopposed.
Any odds available?
I mentioned his background - CPS etc and still blank face, he has R5 as his default in-car listening. I was really surprised.
...
As prime minister, with ultimate responsibility for Britain’s nuclear deterrent, May has to write the letter, in her own hand, giving quite detailed instructions about what the UK’s response should be in the event of a pre-emptive nuclear attack.
Well worth reading the whole section:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2016/jul/11/andrea-leadsom-apologises-to-theresa-may-politics-live
16:58