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edited July 2016 in General

imagepoliticalbetting.com » Blog Archive » It would be a mistake for May to become leader & PM without a membership election

There’s said to be talks taking place amongst “senior Tories” that if May wins convincingly in the first MP ballot on Tuesday then the other contenders should be asked to step aside so that the Home Secretary could start her job immediately. It sounds seductive but it would be a serious mistake.

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Comments

  • eek
    eek Posts: 30,707
    edited July 2016
    First as will be May.. and Gove will be in leaving the race..
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    ALP leader Bill Shorten arrives to cheers as he begins his speech
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2016/
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    edited July 2016
    Shorten says unclear what the result is but the Labor Party is back!
  • CornishBlue
    CornishBlue Posts: 840
    Third, like Gove.
  • Scrapheap_as_was
    Scrapheap_as_was Posts: 10,069
    Agreed. May to win but no coronation pls.
  • RobD
    RobD Posts: 60,608
    But Gordon was crap.... :p
  • HaroldO
    HaroldO Posts: 1,185
    I posted something similar last night/this morning, no coronation as we need some kind of democratic process to have occurred at this point.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    Theresa's the right person but no coronation please, let the members have their ballot.
  • nunu
    nunu Posts: 6,024
    Brent had 40% voting Leave and is 100% in London. It was meant to be one of the most Remain councils, but the bourgeois Islington and Wandsworth were easily more Remain friendly.
  • GIN1138
    GIN1138 Posts: 22,938
    It would be a mistake... Unless she holds a general election in the autumn and secures herself a mandate that way.
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    edited July 2016
    nunu said:

    Brent had 40% voting Leave and is 100% in London. It was meant to be one of the most Remain councils, but the bourgeois Islington and Wandsworth were easily more Remain friendly.

    52% voted Leave across the UK, so even 40% is 12% less
  • Indigo
    Indigo Posts: 9,966
    edited July 2016
    RobD said:

    But Gordon was crap.... :p

    May might be as well. So far we have had a lot of Tory loyalists blowing sunshine up her ar*se on the basis of not a great deal of hard evidence. She survived in the HO for a long time, but did a lot of damn stupid illiberal things while she was there, then hid during the most important political decision of the last 50 years so that she could come out and make her play regardless of who won, anyone that wants a leader with principles would appear to be better off looking elsewhere.
  • MaxPB
    MaxPB Posts: 40,327
    I agree that she needs a mandate of some kind, but hopefully she ends up with Crabb facing her in the members' vote as Leadsom may force her into unfavourable policy positions. The more I look at Leadsom's backers the less I like the look of her, she has the majority of Tombstone backing who I thought would go to Fox.
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    Howard's coronation saw the Tories pick up 33 seats and come in just 2% behind Labour across the UK and even slightly ahead of Labour in England. It was the closest margin between Labour and the Tories in terms of the popular vote since 1974. His achievement is often overlooked
  • Indigo
    Indigo Posts: 9,966
    HYUFD said:

    nunu said:

    Brent had 40% voting Leave and is 100% in London. It was meant to be one of the most Remain councils, but the bourgeois Islington and Wandsworth were easily more Remain friendly.

    52% voted Leave across the UK, so even 40% is 12% less
    I assume you are studying for a degree in stating the obvious :p

    Its still hardly a ringing endorsement of Remain.
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    edited July 2016
    Shorten pushes gay marriage, equal opportunities for women and apprentices and thanks the trade union movement as he wraps up his speech
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    edited July 2016
    If I can get the post half way around the world in a week, and can send back in 48 hours by courier, why are there eight weeks for the members' vote? Let's have a couple of hustings and four weeks for the vote, new PM in place by the second week in August. Losing a month of uncertainty should be the priority.
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    edited July 2016
    73% in from Australia now

    L/NP 73 ALP 66 Others 5 (6 in doubt, 76 needed for a majority)
  • weejonnie
    weejonnie Posts: 3,820
    Theresa May does have one problem.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/674489/Home-Secretary-Theresa-May-says-Britain-benefits-Sharia-Law
  • Indigo
    Indigo Posts: 9,966
    Sandpit said:

    If I can get the post half way around the world in a week, and can send back in 48 hours by courier, why are there eight weeks for the members' vote? Let's have a couple of hustings and four weeks for the vote, new PM in place by the second week in August.

    I couldn't even get it in 4 weeks :(

    But I think the bigger reason is the preparation time, printing the ballots and that sort of thing.
  • dr_spyn
    dr_spyn Posts: 11,312
    Competition didn't harm Margaret Thatcher.

    There is no single solution to the Brexit, and the issue needs a range of possible answers from candidates not a stitch up.
  • Indigo
    Indigo Posts: 9,966
    weejonnie said:

    Theresa May does have one problem.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/674489/Home-Secretary-Theresa-May-says-Britain-benefits-Sharia-Law

    Ugh.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Good afternoon, everyone.

    An entertaining qualifying session, though without the red flag it may have been rather more profitable.
  • Stark_Dawning
    Stark_Dawning Posts: 10,202
    edited July 2016
    The Tories must coronate May, no question about it. The mere contemplation of a Leave zealot like Fox, Gove or Leadsom will be be just too alienating for half of the population. Moreover, the risk of having a Tory PM having who will have to apologise for the consequences of Brexit year in year out is too great. The Tories need to implant in the public consciousness that Brexit was wholly the fault of Boris and Corbyn and take it from there.
  • SouthamObserver
    SouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    nunu said:

    Brent had 40% voting Leave and is 100% in London. It was meant to be one of the most Remain councils, but the bourgeois Islington and Wandsworth were easily more Remain friendly.

    Writes someone who clearly knows very little about Islington!

  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    MaxPB said:

    I agree that she needs a mandate of some kind, but hopefully she ends up with Crabb facing her in the members' vote as Leadsom may force her into unfavourable policy positions. The more I look at Leadsom's backers the less I like the look of her, she has the majority of Tombstone backing who I thought would go to Fox.

    She will face a Leaver, Gove probably or maybe Leadsom. Crabb will be knocked out once Fox goes and his votes are redistributed
  • edmundintokyo
    edmundintokyo Posts: 17,735
    SeanT said:

    fpt for Edmund

    No, it is. When did you last drive on an English motorway? You have to go many miles up the M1 before you get the first chance to hit the speed limit. There is heavy traffic, always, everywhere.

    England has the highest population density in Europe, for a large country. The only other EU country which is higher is Malta.

    Have you been to Malta? It's horrible on the main island. Too many towns, too many people. That's where we're headed.

    I drove on an English motorway last Autumn. It wasn't particularly busy. You may not be able to do 70 in many places but you spend a lot of time over 50.

    But the other striking thing about it is that you're driving for miles through virtually nothing. You could add more lanes without a lot of serious logistical difficulties. There's very little of the kind of infrastructure you see in genuinely heavily populated areas like extended sections in tunnels or multiple decks stacked on top of each other. The limiting factor for doing this is cost, and that scales great when spread over more users.

    The other thing you notice about England if you only drive there once a year, that might get lost to gradualism if you do it all the time, is that the roads are gradually getting better: Bypasses built, single-lane roads getting upgraded to two, etc. So I don't think the process of turning new people into taxes, and taxes into infrastructure, is particularly broken.
  • SouthamObserver
    SouthamObserver Posts: 40,054
    Stark_Dawning said:

    The Tories must coronate May, no question about it. The mere contemplation of a Leave zealot like Fox, Gove or Leadsom will be be just too alienating for half of the population. Moreover, the risk of having a Tory PM having who will have to apologise for the consequences of Brexit year in year out is too great. The Tories need to implant in the public conscience that Brexit was wholly the fault of Boris and Corbyn and take it from there.

    If May is leader, the Chancellor will be a Leaver. It will be interesting.

  • Indigo
    Indigo Posts: 9,966
    Stark_Dawning said:

    The Tories must coronate May, no question about it. The mere contemplation of a Leave zealot like Fox, Gove or Leadsom will be be just too alienating for half of the population. Moreover, the risk of having a Tory PM having who will have to apologise for the consequences of Brexit year in year out is too great. The Tories need to implant in the public conscience that Brexit was wholly the fault of Boris and Corbyn and take it from there.

    I am sure they will be happy to take the credit if we have 3-4 trade deals with commonwealth countries by this time next year and the economy is ticking along nicely. You patent desire to see the worse happen for your country so you can gloat about it is a disgrace.
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    Indigo said:

    HYUFD said:

    nunu said:

    Brent had 40% voting Leave and is 100% in London. It was meant to be one of the most Remain councils, but the bourgeois Islington and Wandsworth were easily more Remain friendly.

    52% voted Leave across the UK, so even 40% is 12% less
    I assume you are studying for a degree in stating the obvious :p

    Its still hardly a ringing endorsement of Remain.
    The election obviously was not a ringing endorsement of Remain because they lost!! The point is Remain comfortably won inner London and every council area in the inner city
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    SeanT said:

    One argument against a 2nd round is that we don't have time to muck about

    If it goes to the members, FFS hurry it up. We can't wait til September to have a new PM.

    Quick quick quick - we haven't time to decide what to eat!!

    Pizza, Indian, Chinese!!

    Seriously, my mother has severe manic depression and showed less absurd opinion swings than your posts. Hers happened over about two weeks up and down.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    Indigo said:

    Sandpit said:

    If I can get the post half way around the world in a week, and can send back in 48 hours by courier, why are there eight weeks for the members' vote? Let's have a couple of hustings and four weeks for the vote, new PM in place by the second week in August.

    I couldn't even get it in 4 weeks :(

    But I think the bigger reason is the preparation time, printing the ballots and that sort of thing.
    Printing the ballots won't take more than a day once we have the two names.
    Delivery might be a bigger issue, I can't imagine there's too many overseas members, maybe they can use a courier service for those who want to vote? The cost will be negligible compared to the cost of having a lame duck PM for another month.
  • Innocent_Abroad
    Innocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    Stark_Dawning said:

    The Tories must coronate May, no question about it. The mere contemplation of a Leave zealot like Fox, Gove or Leadsom will be be just too alienating for half of the population. Moreover, the risk of having a Tory PM having who will have to apologise for the consciousness of Brexit year in year out is too great. The Tories need to implant in the public conscience that Brexit was wholly the fault of Boris and Corbyn and take it from there.

    Do you mean "conscience" or "consciousness"? Maybe you don't care... :(

  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    edited July 2016
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Good afternoon, everyone.

    An entertaining qualifying session, though without the red flag it may have been rather more profitable.

    Was very good. What would have been the odds on JB finishing so well? He could well start on the front row with all the penalties.
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Indigo said:

    RobD said:

    But Gordon was crap.... :p

    May might be as well. So far we have had a lot of Tory loyalists blowing sunshine up her ar*se on the basis of not a great deal of hard evidence. She survived in the HO for a long time, but did a lot of damn stupid illiberal things while she was there, then hid during the most important political decision of the last 50 years so that she could come out and make her play regardless of who won, anyone that wants a leader with principles would appear to be better off looking elsewhere.
    TBH, I'm highly sceptical of received PB wisdom re thread headers. They've been largely wrong on the big calls re EU ref, Tories not winning GE 2015 and LDs defying gravity.

    I treat ones about May with the same Hmm.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Sandpit, Button likely to be 3rd (Force India say they're confident they can prove Hulkenberg lifted and doesn't deserve a penalty).

    Bearing in mind Hamilton's starts, Hulkenberg or Raikkonen may finish lap 1 leading [unlikely to be Button as the Honda's not great].
  • Stark_Dawning
    Stark_Dawning Posts: 10,202
    Innocent_Abroad said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    The Tories must coronate May, no question about it. The mere contemplation of a Leave zealot like Fox, Gove or Leadsom will be be just too alienating for half of the population. Moreover, the risk of having a Tory PM having who will have to apologise for the consciousness of Brexit year in year out is too great. The Tories need to implant in the public conscience that Brexit was wholly the fault of Boris and Corbyn and take it from there.

    Do you mean "conscience" or "consciousness"? Maybe you don't care... :(

    Yes, I actually amended the post before your correction. I'd intended to write something else originally but left 'conscience' in by mistake. Poor proof reading on my part!
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited July 2016
    MaxPB said:

    I agree that she needs a mandate of some kind, but hopefully she ends up with Crabb facing her in the members' vote as Leadsom may force her into unfavourable policy positions. The more I look at Leadsom's backers the less I like the look of her, she has the majority of Tombstone backing who I thought would go to Fox.


    TBH, I'm highly sceptical of received PB wisdom re thread headers. They've been largely wrong on the big calls re EU ref, Tories not winning GE 2015 and LDs defying gravity.

    I treat ones about May with the same Hmm.

    In what parallel universe do you think Crabb will be May's contender? What total wishful thinking nonsense.

    If I suggested the final two were Leadsom vs Fox you'd rightly ridicule me.
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    nunu said:

    Brent had 40% voting Leave and is 100% in London. It was meant to be one of the most Remain councils, but the bourgeois Islington and Wandsworth were easily more Remain friendly.

    Brent was 40%? Golly. There's a load of debunking to be done here.
  • FrancisUrquhart
    FrancisUrquhart Posts: 85,722
    edited July 2016
    SeanT said:

    I had a Brexity moment today. Walking down Parkway, Camden I passed a well-fed, colourful Roma woman, selling the Big Issue. Probably from Bulgaria or Romania. it's well known that they come here to sell the Big Issue, so they can then get tax credits as "self employed". they come here TO be homeless, and claim

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2090012/One-Big-Issue-sellers-Romanian-homes-AND-claim-benefits.html

    For a second the thought zipped across my mind, of walking up to her, and saying "Ok love, you've had your fun, now could you please go home"

    Because these people really ARE taking the piss.

    Of course I didn't. I smiled at her and walked on. But that tiny fleeting thought did occur. I can see why there have been flashpoints.

    It is actually even worse. Big issue works by individuals buying a supply & selling on, with the presumption that homeless people have limited capital & know their own "pitch", so anybody who wants / needs can sell.big issue.

    The suggestion is that it is now basically "mob" run & the mob buy up all the copies so basically the roma.have to sell for them but also genuinely homeless people can't even get supply if the magazine.

    In many places it is now organised criminal monopoly that controls big issue supply & means for genuine homeless people this avenue of getting oneself back on two feet isn't available.

  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    Indigo said:

    Sandpit said:

    If I can get the post half way around the world in a week, and can send back in 48 hours by courier, why are there eight weeks for the members' vote? Let's have a couple of hustings and four weeks for the vote, new PM in place by the second week in August.

    I couldn't even get it in 4 weeks :(

    But I think the bigger reason is the preparation time, printing the ballots and that sort of thing.
    Did you Fedex your vote in the end? I've never seen more help in getting a single Leave vote back here!
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    Catching up on earlier today - what on Earth were the Telegraph thinking of with that hatchet job on Theresa May? Haven't we had enough of shitty negative politics in the last few months?
  • stjohn
    stjohn Posts: 1,910
    edited July 2016
    I've been hoping it will be May as next PM for the good of the country. Stability, authority, experience, reassurance, competence etc. But now I'm starting to worry she could be another Gordon Brown as some here have suggested.

    These tales that she will never take responsibility for anything that goes wrong, micromanages everything, has failed miserably with controlling immigration and that colleagues, including the PM, dread meeting with her are all rather worrying.

    Any reassurances re the above from May supporters?
  • MaxPB
    MaxPB Posts: 40,327
    PlatoSaid said:

    MaxPB said:

    I agree that she needs a mandate of some kind, but hopefully she ends up with Crabb facing her in the members' vote as Leadsom may force her into unfavourable policy positions. The more I look at Leadsom's backers the less I like the look of her, she has the majority of Tombstone backing who I thought would go to Fox.

    PlatoSaid said:

    Indigo said:

    RobD said:

    But Gordon was crap.... :p

    May might be as well. So far we have had a lot of Tory loyalists blowing sunshine up her ar*se on the basis of not a great deal of hard evidence. She survived in the HO for a long time, but did a lot of damn stupid illiberal things while she was there, then hid during the most important political decision of the last 50 years so that she could come out and make her play regardless of who won, anyone that wants a leader with principles would appear to be better off looking elsewhere.
    TBH, I'm highly sceptical of received PB wisdom re thread headers. They've been largely wrong on the big calls re EU ref, Tories not winning GE 2015 and LDs defying gravity.

    I treat ones about May with the same Hmm.
    In what parallel universe do you think Crabb will be May's contender? What total wishful thinking nonsense.

    If I suggested the final two were Leadsom vs Fox you'd rightly ridicule me.
    I said hopefully. Obviously it's not going to happen, if she faces Gove it would be good because she will absolutely wipe the floor with him. Not a single person from the leave campaign group I was in is looking to back him after what he did to Boris.
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    edited July 2016
    Australian election with 74% in

    Primary votes 42% Coalition ALP 35% Greens 10% Others 13%

    2PP L/NP 50.7% ALP 49.3%
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    Morris_Dancer said:

    Mr. Sandpit, Button likely to be 3rd (Force India say they're confident they can prove Hulkenberg lifted and doesn't deserve a penalty).

    Bearing in mind Hamilton's starts, Hulkenberg or Raikkonen may finish lap 1 leading [unlikely to be Button as the Honda's not great].

    Like your thinking for the lap 1 leader not being Lewis.

    Hope the stewards put Hulk to the back TBH, a double waved yellow means that cars should slow down and be prepared to stop. A token millisecond lift en route to a personal best lap really shouldn't cut it. Martin Brundle agrees with me ;)
  • Innocent_Abroad
    Innocent_Abroad Posts: 3,294
    Stark_Dawning said:

    Innocent_Abroad said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    The Tories must coronate May, no question about it. The mere contemplation of a Leave zealot like Fox, Gove or Leadsom will be be just too alienating for half of the population. Moreover, the risk of having a Tory PM having who will have to apologise for the consciousness of Brexit year in year out is too great. The Tories need to implant in the public conscience that Brexit was wholly the fault of Boris and Corbyn and take it from there.

    Do you mean "conscience" or "consciousness"? Maybe you don't care... :(

    Yes, I actually amended the post before your correction. I'd intended to write something else originally but left 'conscience' in by mistake. Poor proof reading on my part!
    Bless you. It's easily done...

  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    Mr. Sandpit, if he is, Raikkonen to lead lap 1 (then 3rd) would be worth a look.
  • JackW
    JackW Posts: 14,787
    Coronations are rather splendid affairs .... Pomp and circumstance and peers in attendance .... :smiley:

    Street parties in Bolsover and Islington .... what's not to like.

    Not to mention May appointing a government Hereditary Grand Falconer .... Step forward Charlie .... :smile:
  • MontyHall
    MontyHall Posts: 226
    Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    edited July 2016
    FrancisUrquhart said:

    SeanT said:

    I had a Brexity moment today. Walking down Parkway, Camden I passed a well-fed, colourful Roma woman, selling the Big Issue. Probably from Bulgaria or Romania. it's well known that they come here to sell the Big Issue, so they can then get tax credits as "self employed". they come here TO be homeless, and claim

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2090012/One-Big-Issue-sellers-Romanian-homes-AND-claim-benefits.html

    For a second the thought zipped across my mind, of walking up to her, and saying "Ok love, you've had your fun, now could you please go home"

    Because these people really ARE taking the piss.

    Of course I didn't. I smiled at her and walked on. But that tiny fleeting thought did occur. I can see why there have been flashpoints.

    It is actually even worse. Big issue works by individuals buying a supply & selling on, with the presumption that homeless people have limited capital & know their own "pitch", so anybody who wants / needs can sell.big issue.

    The suggestion is that it is now basically "mob" run & the mob buy up all the copies so basically the roma.have to sell for them but also genuinely homeless people can't even get supply if the magazine.

    In many places it is now organised criminal monopoly that controls big issue supply & means for genuine homeless people this avenue of getting oneself back on two feet isn't available.

    How horribly depressing. And a great disappointment to the guy who set up the whole enterprise. It was a magnificent concept. All the BI sellers in Eastbourne are Romanians. I help Brits who've fallen down on their luck - a couple of months ago, a new chap arrived and ended up smothered in pre-packed sandwiches, KFC [me] and M&S top end snacks.

    It was rather amusing. He ate better than me.
  • GIN1138
    GIN1138 Posts: 22,938
    edited July 2016
    Leftie pacifist Jezza on the verge of knocking someone's head off?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/02/jeremy-corbyn-urged-to-retire-with-dignity-as-hard-left-recruit/

    :smiley:
  • BenedictWhite
    BenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    I agree with Mike. A coronation would be a mistake.

    If it goes to the ballot it will be May v Leadsom, and Leadsom will win.

    When you look at May's record, it does not bear scrutiny. And that is without reading Guido's pulled Telegraph article.

    Leadsom has less of a record of failure to hold her back. So that is where my book is.
  • numbertwelve
    numbertwelve Posts: 7,726
    SouthamObserver said:

    Stark_Dawning said:

    The Tories must coronate May, no question about it. The mere contemplation of a Leave zealot like Fox, Gove or Leadsom will be be just too alienating for half of the population. Moreover, the risk of having a Tory PM having who will have to apologise for the consequences of Brexit year in year out is too great. The Tories need to implant in the public conscience that Brexit was wholly the fault of Boris and Corbyn and take it from there.

    If May is leader, the Chancellor will be a Leaver. It will be interesting.

    Who do you think she'd make Chancellor? Grayling?

    I think Leadsom is destined for the Brexit Ministry in a May premiership. I have a horrible feeling Osborne would move to the Home Office...
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Indigo said:

    weejonnie said:

    Theresa May does have one problem.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/674489/Home-Secretary-Theresa-May-says-Britain-benefits-Sharia-Law

    Ugh.
    Read what she actually said:

    “Many British people of different faiths follow religious codes and practices, and benefit a great deal from the guidance they offer.

    “A number of women have reportedly been victims of what appear to be discriminatory decisions taken by Sharia councils, and that is a significant concern.

    “There is only one rule of law in our country, which provides rights and security for every citizen.

    “Professor Siddiqui, supported by a panel with a strong balance of academic, religious and legal expertise, will help us better understand whether and the extent to which Sharia law is being misused or exploited and make recommendations to the Government on how to address this.”
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    SouthamObserver said:

    nunu said:

    Brent had 40% voting Leave and is 100% in London. It was meant to be one of the most Remain councils, but the bourgeois Islington and Wandsworth were easily more Remain friendly.

    Writes someone who clearly knows very little about Islington!

    Mr Meeks, Tony Blair, Emily Thornbury and Jeremy Corbyn tell us quite enough.
  • surbiton
    surbiton Posts: 13,549
    BenedictWhite said:

    I agree with Mike. A coronation would be a mistake.

    If it goes to the ballot it will be May v Leadsom, and Leadsom will win.

    When you look at May's record, it does not bear scrutiny. And that is without reading Guido's pulled Telegraph article.

    Leadsom has less of a record of failure to hold her back. So that is where my book is.

    May's strategy was to keep her head down. In other words, create as few critics as possible. Avoid trouble. Therefore, don't expect too many policies.
  • Sandpit
    Sandpit Posts: 56,045
    MontyHall said:

    Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote

    Quite. I've got a *Russian* news channel on in the background, they're covering a demonstration in London today, apparently protesting the referendum result.
  • MarqueeMark
    MarqueeMark Posts: 55,457
    JackW said:

    Not to mention May appointing a government Hereditary Grand Falconer .... Step forward Charlie .... :smile:

    Sounds like it is a post he couldn't resign from....

  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    MontyHall said:

    Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote

    Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
  • BenedictWhite
    BenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    surbiton said:

    BenedictWhite said:

    I agree with Mike. A coronation would be a mistake.

    If it goes to the ballot it will be May v Leadsom, and Leadsom will win.

    When you look at May's record, it does not bear scrutiny. And that is without reading Guido's pulled Telegraph article.

    Leadsom has less of a record of failure to hold her back. So that is where my book is.

    May's strategy was to keep her head down. In other words, create as few critics as possible. Avoid trouble. Therefore, don't expect too many policies.
    Well, she failed to either control non EU migration or indeed measure migration rigorously in office... for a start so I have to say, I think tales of her competence are over played.

    She did keep her head down in the referendum though and that may help her.
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    HYUFD said:

    Indigo said:

    HYUFD said:

    nunu said:

    Brent had 40% voting Leave and is 100% in London. It was meant to be one of the most Remain councils, but the bourgeois Islington and Wandsworth were easily more Remain friendly.

    52% voted Leave across the UK, so even 40% is 12% less
    I assume you are studying for a degree in stating the obvious :p

    Its still hardly a ringing endorsement of Remain.
    The election obviously was not a ringing endorsement of Remain because they lost!! The point is Remain comfortably won inner London and every council area in the inner city
    NZ offering us their senior trade deal negotiators made my day. We've already 11 countries eyeing our newly independent status. 65 million buyers have said Hiya to the rest of the world.

    What's not to like?

  • numbertwelve
    numbertwelve Posts: 7,726
    BenedictWhite said:

    I agree with Mike. A coronation would be a mistake.

    If it goes to the ballot it will be May v Leadsom, and Leadsom will win.

    When you look at May's record, it does not bear scrutiny. And that is without reading Guido's pulled Telegraph article.

    Leadsom has less of a record of failure to hold her back. So that is where my book is.

    But Leadsom has limited experience in government. And was part of the £350m club.
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    PlatoSaid said:

    HYUFD said:

    Indigo said:

    HYUFD said:

    nunu said:

    Brent had 40% voting Leave and is 100% in London. It was meant to be one of the most Remain councils, but the bourgeois Islington and Wandsworth were easily more Remain friendly.

    52% voted Leave across the UK, so even 40% is 12% less
    I assume you are studying for a degree in stating the obvious :p

    Its still hardly a ringing endorsement of Remain.
    The election obviously was not a ringing endorsement of Remain because they lost!! The point is Remain comfortably won inner London and every council area in the inner city
    NZ offering us their senior trade deal negotiators made my day. We've already 11 countries eyeing our newly independent status. 65 million buyers have said Hiya to the rest of the world.

    What's not to like?

    Indeed
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    Sandpit said:

    Catching up on earlier today - what on Earth were the Telegraph thinking of with that hatchet job on Theresa May? Haven't we had enough of shitty negative politics in the last few months?


    Former Murdoch journalist (with very limited track in UK poiltics) does hatchet job on Gove opponent shocker!

    Perhaps the Telegraph saw it for what it was.....
  • BenedictWhite
    BenedictWhite Posts: 1,944
    numbertwelve said:

    BenedictWhite said:

    I agree with Mike. A coronation would be a mistake.

    If it goes to the ballot it will be May v Leadsom, and Leadsom will win.

    When you look at May's record, it does not bear scrutiny. And that is without reading Guido's pulled Telegraph article.

    Leadsom has less of a record of failure to hold her back. So that is where my book is.

    But Leadsom has limited experience in government. And was part of the £350m club.
    You have a choice between someone who hasn't controlled the issues in the home office and someone who has a less senior role.

    Do you go with the lack of competence you know about or take a chance?

    There are other issues with May, as well, which will make her difficult to elect as a PM, for example her husbands role in G4S. Dennis had business interests, but none that could be a government contractor as far as I am aware.
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    MaxPB said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    MaxPB said:

    I agree that she needs a mandate of some kind, but hopefully she ends up with Crabb facing her in the members' vote as Leadsom may force her into unfavourable policy positions. The more I look at Leadsom's backers the less I like the look of her, she has the majority of Tombstone backing who I thought would go to Fox.

    PlatoSaid said:

    Indigo said:

    RobD said:

    But Gordon was crap.... :p

    May might be as well. So far we have had a lot of Tory loyalists blowing sunshine up her ar*se on the basis of not a great deal of hard evidence. She survived in the HO for a long time, but did a lot of damn stupid illiberal things while she was there, then hid during the most important political decision of the last 50 years so that she could come out and make her play regardless of who won, anyone that wants a leader with principles would appear to be better off looking elsewhere.
    TBH, I'm highly sceptical of received PB wisdom re thread headers. They've been largely wrong on the big calls re EU ref, Tories not winning GE 2015 and LDs defying gravity.

    I treat ones about May with the same Hmm.
    In what parallel universe do you think Crabb will be May's contender? What total wishful thinking nonsense.

    If I suggested the final two were Leadsom vs Fox you'd rightly ridicule me.
    I said hopefully. Obviously it's not going to happen, if she faces Gove it would be good because she will absolutely wipe the floor with him. Not a single person from the leave campaign group I was in is looking to back him after what he did to Boris.
    She's very unlikely to face Gove - and you know it as well as I do. He killed Boris in a single blow and forfeited his non-existent leadership ambitions. He wants to be Mr Brexit Manifesto.

    Whatever happens - Gove will go down as the Giant Killer of Tory ambitions.
  • Norm
    Norm Posts: 1,251
    edited July 2016
    Mike Smithson - on this I agree 100%. Theresa May is not without her faults and it is right she should secure a democratic mandate and indeed Tory members will be seriously pissed off if denied a chance to participate. It is also right that she should explain why Cameron as a Remainer should be replaced by another Remainer from the top offices of state. As for the we need to get on with it argument why exactly should DC be allowed to slink off so quickly having created the situation we're now in.
  • Indigo
    Indigo Posts: 9,966
    PlatoSaid said:

    Indigo said:

    Sandpit said:

    If I can get the post half way around the world in a week, and can send back in 48 hours by courier, why are there eight weeks for the members' vote? Let's have a couple of hustings and four weeks for the vote, new PM in place by the second week in August.

    I couldn't even get it in 4 weeks :(

    But I think the bigger reason is the preparation time, printing the ballots and that sort of thing.
    Did you Fedex your vote in the end? I've never seen more help in getting a single Leave vote back here!
    Unfortunately not, so I took the next best option and paired with a remainer in my family and we both didn't vote.
  • nunu
    nunu Posts: 6,024
    edited July 2016
    PlatoSaid said:

    nunu said:

    Brent had 40% voting Leave and is 100% in London. It was meant to be one of the most Remain councils, but the bourgeois Islington and Wandsworth were easily more Remain friendly.

    Brent was 40%? Golly. There's a load of debunking to be done here.
    Yes and Hounslow was 49% Leave and Newham 47% Leave, only really inner London was a safe space for Remain where it is a sin to vote Leave. Inner Lindon is really a bubble.
  • MaxPB
    MaxPB Posts: 40,327
    PlatoSaid said:

    HYUFD said:

    Indigo said:

    HYUFD said:

    nunu said:

    Brent had 40% voting Leave and is 100% in London. It was meant to be one of the most Remain councils, but the bourgeois Islington and Wandsworth were easily more Remain friendly.

    52% voted Leave across the UK, so even 40% is 12% less
    I assume you are studying for a degree in stating the obvious :p

    Its still hardly a ringing endorsement of Remain.
    The election obviously was not a ringing endorsement of Remain because they lost!! The point is Remain comfortably won inner London and every council area in the inner city
    NZ offering us their senior trade deal negotiators made my day. We've already 11 countries eyeing our newly independent status. 65 million buyers have said Hiya to the rest of the world.

    What's not to like?

    Those trade deals are going to take a minimum of four years to get off the ground and as @rcs1000 has pointed out on a number of occasions, we need to negotiate from a position of strength. A year long recession followed by rising unemployment isn't the position we want to be looking for trade deals from because other nations will know how desperate we are to sign. Like it or not, 35-38% of our exports go to the EU. We can't face barriers to that trade and lose the income on the hopes of signing non-EU deals in the meantime. It is a fantastical policy position.

    The real world solution is to stay in the single market, get a fig leaf on free movement and then reform the benefits system so people can't come here and after 90 days claim housing benefits, tax credits and other welfare without having paid into the system. We also need to do that for our own citizens, the work incentive in this country is awful compared to other European countries. Let's fix what we can rather than restrict the markets. Supply side reforms are the answer, not restrictions on the markets, as a Tory or someone on the right I'm amazed you can't see it.
  • numbertwelve
    numbertwelve Posts: 7,726
    BenedictWhite said:

    numbertwelve said:

    BenedictWhite said:

    I agree with Mike. A coronation would be a mistake.

    If it goes to the ballot it will be May v Leadsom, and Leadsom will win.

    When you look at May's record, it does not bear scrutiny. And that is without reading Guido's pulled Telegraph article.

    Leadsom has less of a record of failure to hold her back. So that is where my book is.

    But Leadsom has limited experience in government. And was part of the £350m club.
    You have a choice between someone who hasn't controlled the issues in the home office and someone who has a less senior role.

    Do you go with the lack of competence you know about or take a chance?

    There are other issues with May, as well, which will make her difficult to elect as a PM, for example her husbands role in G4S. Dennis had business interests, but none that could be a government contractor as far as I am aware.
    Her Home Office record has been a mixed bag. I'd hardly say she's been incompetent. She's failed in some areas but had successes in others. She's avoided major scandal as Home Secretary for six years. If there had been issues with the G4S links wouldn't they have blown up by now considering the department she runs?

    Taking a chance is all well and good when you're in opposition, but this is a one way ticket to the highest political office in the land.
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    MontyHall said:

    Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote

    I love the Iron Curtain comparison - it's so true. Hence my amusement at Slovakians offering Velvet Revolution advice.

    The Gorbachev quote is apposite http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/565258-the-most-puzzling-development-in-politics-during-the-last-decade

    “The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”

  • Wulfrun_Phil
    Wulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,784
    HYUFD said:

    MontyHall said:

    Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote

    Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
    "May has said BREXIT means BREXIT" is not a lot to rely on. She has to say that or she can write off her chances. Whether she means it is another matter.
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    edited July 2016
    Australian PM and L/NP leader Malcolm Turnbull arrived at Wentworth Hotel to some cheers and coming up to the stage to make his speech
    http://www.abc.net.au/news/federal-election-2016/
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    PlatoSaid said:

    MontyHall said:

    Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote

    I love the Iron Curtain comparison - it's so true.
    Its completely fatuous.

    On what planet is Cameron 'installing May'?
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    Turnbull says very close but still confident of a majority government but final outcome may not be known for a few days
  • MaxPB
    MaxPB Posts: 40,327
    Wulfrun_Phil said:

    HYUFD said:

    MontyHall said:

    Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote

    Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
    "May has said BREXIT means BREXIT" is not a lot to rely on. She has to say that or she can write off her chances. Whether she means it is another matter.
    Given how easy it is for the Tories to trigger a leadership election it wouldn't be hard to remove her if she backtracked from leaving the EU.
  • Indigo
    Indigo Posts: 9,966
    HYUFD said:

    MontyHall said:

    Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote

    Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
    This is another bubble meme.

    How many voters in northern council estates, or come to that middle class homes in the Shires have even heard of EFTA let alone have views for or against us being part of it. The idea that more than a handful of political obsessives would have voted for it if it was on the ballot is bizarre.
  • Morris_Dancer
    Morris_Dancer Posts: 62,742
    F1: still waiting for the markets to awaken. No word yet on Hulkenberg.

    If he doesn't get a penalty, it'll be interesting to see how well he can do from 2nd.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    We are talking about the future Prime Minister, which is a much bigger job than Chief Brexit negotiator (which should not be the PM anyway)

    How would PM Leadsom cope with a terrorist attack? Or war in the Middle East?

    For those reasons, May should be the next PM.

    But the Brexiteers also continue to underestimate the financial hit of Brexit. We can't afford to faff about for 3 months.

    May should have a mandate. In a GE, on a platform of trying to rescue the economy.

    Landslide win.
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    Turnbull attacks the ALP and union movement for scare stories on Medicare privatisation
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    CarlottaVance said:

    Sandpit said:

    Catching up on earlier today - what on Earth were the Telegraph thinking of with that hatchet job on Theresa May? Haven't we had enough of shitty negative politics in the last few months?


    Former Murdoch journalist (with very limited track in UK poiltics) does hatchet job on Gove opponent shocker!

    Perhaps the Telegraph saw it for what it was.....
    Out of curiosity - are you a Tory member eligible to vote in the leadership election?
  • GIN1138
    GIN1138 Posts: 22,938
    edited July 2016
    I tend to agree with Benedict. If this goes to the wider party with May and Leadsom the final two I certainly think it's possible they'll go for Leadsom.

    Remember, the The Shires went LEAVE. A lot of those people who voted for Brexit would be Conservative members who are going to get a vote a vote in this thing.

    They thought nothing of voting against Cameron (and thus destroying his career) so they certainly won't have any qualms about voting against Theresa if Andrea is the last Brexiteer standing.

    Theresa may have to try and buy her off with an offer for CoE next week...
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    Wulfrun_Phil said:

    "May has said BREXIT means BREXIT" is not a lot to rely on. She has to say that or she can write off her chances. Whether she means it is another matter.

    And Leadsom has said £350m doesn't mean £350m

    That should disqualify her from office
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    @MichaelLCrick: If May gets good majority among Tory MPs, but a Brexiter wins party members, Tories could end up in very similar mess to Labour

    No shit
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    Turnbull says ALP means more debt and more taxes and points out they got the second lowest primary vote in their history. He says ALP has no capacity to form a stable majority government
  • Indigo
    Indigo Posts: 9,966
    Is there any evidence of even a cigarette paper of difference between the views of Cameron and May, presumably the main reason she survived at the Home Office for so long despite a less than stellar record there is because she and Dave were on the same page. Lots of Tories would not have voted for Dave or George after the recent fiasco, if May is cut from the same cloth, why should they vote for her either ?
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    MaxPB said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    HYUFD said:

    Indigo said:

    HYUFD said:

    nunu said:

    Brent had 40% voting Leave and is 100% in London. It was meant to be one of the most Remain councils, but the bourgeois Islington and Wandsworth were easily more Remain friendly.

    52% voted Leave across the UK, so even 40% is 12% less
    I assume you are studying for a degree in stating the obvious :p

    Its still hardly a ringing endorsement of Remain.
    The election obviously was not a ringing endorsement of Remain because they lost!! The point is Remain comfortably won inner London and every council area in the inner city
    NZ offering us their senior trade deal negotiators made my day. We've already 11 countries eyeing our newly independent status. 65 million buyers have said Hiya to the rest of the world.

    What's not to like?

    Those trade deals are going to take a minimum of four years to get off the ground and as @rcs1000 has pointed out on a number of occasions, we need to negotiate from a position of strength. A year long recession followed by rising unemployment isn't the position we want to be looking for trade deals from because other nations will know how desperate we are to sign. Like it or not, 35-38% of our exports go to the EU. We can't face barriers to that trade and lose the income on the hopes of signing non-EU deals in the meantime. It is a fantastical policy position.

    The real world solution is to stay in the single market, get a fig leaf on free movement and then reform the benefits system so people can't come here and after 90 days claim housing benefits, tax credits and other welfare without having paid into the system. We also need to do that for our own citizens, the work incentive in this country is awful compared to other European countries. Let's fix what we can rather than restrict the markets. Supply side reforms are the answer, not restrictions on the markets, as a Tory or someone on the right I'm amazed you can't see it.
    You've no idea and just guessing. As are most other PBers.
  • MontyHall
    MontyHall Posts: 226
    CarlottaVance said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    MontyHall said:

    Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote

    I love the Iron Curtain comparison - it's so true.
    Its completely fatuous.

    On what planet is Cameron 'installing May'?
    Sorry, 'The Party' installed

    ...the person who had overseen breaking of their key GE pledge/lie that the public just voted against
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    GIN1138 said:

    Remember, the The Shires went LEAVE. A lot of those people who voted for Brexit would be Conservative members who are going to get a vote a vote in this thing.

    And when they look at the economy, they will vote for May
  • MarqueeMark
    MarqueeMark Posts: 55,457
    GIN1138 said:

    I tend to agree with Benedict. If this goes to the wider party with May and Leadsom the fianl two I certainly think it's possible they'll go for Leadsom.

    Remember, the The Shires went LEAVE. A lot of those people who voted for Brexit would be Conservative members who are going to get a vote a vote in this thing.

    They thought nothing of voting against Cameron (and thus destroying his career) so they certainly won't have any qualms about voting against Theresa if Andrea is the last Brexiteer standing.

    Theresa may have to try and buy her off with an offer for CoE next week...

    That's what I'm thinking. May calls Leadsom and says "It ends now - and I make you Chancellor. Or we fight on - and you will not be in Cabinet." Tough call for Leadsom
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    Wulfrun_Phil said:

    HYUFD said:

    MontyHall said:

    Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote

    Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
    "May has said BREXIT means BREXIT" is not a lot to rely on. She has to say that or she can write off her chances. Whether she means it is another matter.
    Of course she means it, most Tory voters voted Leave, she cannot ignore that
  • PlatoSaid
    PlatoSaid Posts: 10,383
    CarlottaVance said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    MontyHall said:

    Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote

    I love the Iron Curtain comparison - it's so true.
    Its completely fatuous.

    On what planet is Cameron 'installing May'?
    What are you talking about? I haven't said those things at any point.
  • Scott_P
    Scott_P Posts: 51,453
    MarqueeMark said:

    That's what I'm thinking. May calls Leadsom and says "It ends now - and I make you Chancellor.

    "And you get to stand at the despatch box and explain where the £350m you promised went."
  • viewcode
    viewcode Posts: 25,200
    PlatoSaid said:



    NZ offering us their senior trade deal negotiators made my day. We've already 11 countries eyeing our newly independent status. 65 million buyers have said Hiya to the rest of the world.

    What's not to like?

    Nothing. The problem now becomes we have to do trade deals with onehundredandeightyblah countries within, say, two years, and we don't have the staff to do it. So no pressure, then.
  • CarlottaVance
    CarlottaVance Posts: 60,422
    MontyHall said:

    CarlottaVance said:

    PlatoSaid said:

    MontyHall said:

    Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote

    I love the Iron Curtain comparison - it's so true.
    Its completely fatuous.

    On what planet is Cameron 'installing May'?
    Sorry, 'The Party' installed

    ...the person who had overseen breaking of their key GE pledge/lie that the public just voted against
    Fair enough - but the bonkers immigration pledge lies at Cameron's door, not May's.
  • GIN1138
    GIN1138 Posts: 22,938
    HYUFD said:

    Wulfrun_Phil said:

    HYUFD said:

    MontyHall said:

    Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote

    Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
    "May has said BREXIT means BREXIT" is not a lot to rely on. She has to say that or she can write off her chances. Whether she means it is another matter.
    Of course she means it, most Tory voters voted Leave, she cannot ignore that
    You wanna bet? ;)
  • HYUFD
    HYUFD Posts: 128,924
    Indigo said:

    HYUFD said:

    MontyHall said:

    Imagine what we'd have thought if a country from behind the Iron Curtain had a referendum to decide if it wanted to change the status quo and, when they voted for change, the leader quit, installed a colleague who voted for the status quo, and ignored the outcome of the vote

    Well luckily that is not going to happen is it. May has said BREXIT means BREXIT and was the most popular choice amongst the public for next PM in a yougov poll last week. The referendum was about leaving the EU not then refusing to join EFTA as well!
    This is another bubble meme.

    How many voters in northern council estates, or come to that middle class homes in the Shires have even heard of EFTA let alone have views for or against us being part of it. The idea that more than a handful of political obsessives would have voted for it if it was on the ballot is bizarre.
    Many middle class Leave voters in the Home Counties would be happy with EFTA and the single market, add them to the 48% Remain vote and you have a majority of the country
  • shiney2
    shiney2 Posts: 672
    Scott_P said:

    @MichaelLCrick: If May gets good majority among Tory MPs, but a Brexiter wins party members, Tories could end up in very similar mess to Labour

    No shit

    That's the purpose of Crabb/Javid: to hang in there as a beatable 2nd.

    Should the little people have to be asked, the choice will be Remainiac v Remainiac.
This discussion has been closed.

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