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Live by the sword, die by the sword. - Perhaps if Boris had shown a smidgeon of loyalty over the years, it would have been reciprocated.TheScreamingEagles said:0
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Tom Newton Dunn @tnewtondunn 2 mins2 minutes ago
A text arrives from a senior Team Boris figure: "Gove is a c*** who set this up form start". This is going to be bloody.
At least the torys properly do their fighting unlike labour....0 -
It's hilarious, isn't it?Scott_P said:Did Southam ever order that 12 gross of BETRAYAL T-shirts?
My golden run continues!!
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" take any odds available on Boris. Might even be a coronation"TheScreamingEagles said:
Gove is very publicly voicing the doubts many Tories hold privately about Boris.Pulpstar said:Does this really kill off Boris ?
I'm not so sure.
That's not good for Boris
"Take the 7-4 on Osborne" >.>0 -
Ha, ha. This has really made my day. I love it.0
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Gove:
"I have repeatedly said that I do not want to be Prime Minister. That has always been my view. But events since last Thursday have weighed heavily with me."
Eh?0 -
Oops, Gove is running after all.... I'm so pleased. I suspect that at the 11th hour he realised that Boris wasn't going to win this contest, thereby giving him a real chance.
It would be good if he received Cameron's endorsement, although if the PM publicly favours anyone, I suspect this will be Mrs May as a supposed, albeit luke warm member of his Remain team0 -
Leadsom announces she is running. Leavers are splittlng like old ship's wood.0
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Mrs Gove is working on that as we speak.DavidL said:
Jeremy Hunt has done a good job keeping the NHS off the agenda during the election and then taking on the most reactionary unions in the UK today but I don't think he would have a chance. I am still struggling to see what is so wonderful about Hammond. He has a good backstory but his performance in Defence was nothing to write home about (admittedly he inherited a total shambles) and he has been unusually invisible as Foreign Secretary at a time when foreign affairs have been playing a rather more significant part than usual in our affairs. He seems to have nothing to say.AlastairMeeks said:
I am not a fan of Liam Fox but he speaks for a grouping of the Conservative party. It would be helpful to see its Parliamentary strength.DavidL said:
I think that is plenty. Indeed in the case of Fox and Morgan rather too many.AlastairMeeks said:So:
Liam Fox and Stephen Crabb are declared runners. Boris Johnson and Theresa May are certain to enter the race today. Will there be any others? Andrea Leadsom and Nicky Morgan have flirted with the idea but are they actually going to stand? Any others?
I wonder whether we might see one or two more unanticipated names come forward. Jeremy Hunt was musing on his own position. Has Phillip Hammond yet said what he is doing?
I think that electing a PM is different from electing a leader of the opposition where it is possible to take more of a chance and see how we go (very, very badly in Corbyn's case of course). We need safer hands in government.
It would be helpful if Gove would clarify his position.0 -
It bears repeating - you're quite right I'm sure. Many, many Leavers would have been motivated by immigration, particularly the traditional DNVers and the working classes (whatever the heck that means these days).midwinter said:
I've been ticked of by Leavers on here for daring to suggest that immigration was the reason for Leaves triumph. Apparently it was all about sovereignty, despite the campaign . So maybe not just remain in a muddle?TOPPING said:
I am certainly not in a muddle.blackburn63 said:
I meant which right wing tories are you referring to? The govt has the ability to reduce immigration, it was implicitly told to by the electorate, if it doesn't they'll be replaced.TOPPING said:
You want to restrict immigration. You say that if the government doesn't, they will "pay the consequences" which, short of armed uprising or swinging from the Cenotaph, presumably means voting them out.blackburn63 said:
Who are you referring to?TOPPING said:
If these ones, arguably the most right wing set of Conservatives in a while, don't deliver immigration restriction, who on earth are you expecting to?blackburn63 said:@ianB2
It is very simple, for years we have been unable to restrict immigration, now we can. If we don't the politicians will pay the consequences.
Its called democracy, its what we voted for.
In which case which set of politicians are you expecting to be voted in to deliver your desired restriction of immigration? Labour? UKIP? Green? SDP2?
You lot are in such a muddle its hilarious.
You, meanwhile, have not answered my question. If the forthcoming set of Conservatives don't restrict immigration, who are you expecting them to be replaced by who will restrict it?
Give me some names here, so I can get a handle on your thinking. The Moggster, John Redwood and Bill Cash at his side? Douglas Carswell and an expected other 325 UKIP MPs?
I wasn't and still am not entirely convinced of that, but, assuming that is correct for the bulk of the Leave vote and we negotiate access to the single market with freedom of movement but crucially resolve the sovereignty issue does that not mean that all ukip can campaign on is immigration?
I can see that being a step to far for a lot of voters. Or is that just wishful thinking?
The issue is that you're not going to find those people well represented on PB. As the referendum was based on a single question, I could only vote based on my personal position. It was tragic to be on the same side as Nigel Farage, but it didn't (and shouldn't have) influence my decision.0 -
SNAFU?TOPPING said:What a lying, lying, dickweasel, utter shit. What on earth is happening to (the MPs of) my party???
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What an ego trip by Corbyn and the lefties? And all the legacy of the reforms by Ed Miliband
Plan to try and sign up a few friends of mine for £3 to vote against Corbyn.
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Fucking Tories, Labour miles easier to bet on.0
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In many ways Gove is more pernicious than Johnson but still can't suppress a cackle at the Blond Bustard's expense.
Even more detrmined to vote May.0 -
Brutus’ story didn’t end well for him, did it!Pulpstar said:Does this really kill off Boris ?
I'm not so sure.0 -
None of the Tory runners want to leave the single market (and ergo end free movement).rottenborough said:Gove:
"I have repeatedly said that I do not want to be Prime Minister. That has always been my view. But events since last Thursday have weighed heavily with me."
Eh?0 -
Wow.
I nearly put a covering bet on Gove last night, too. Thought it too fantastical.
I'm backing Gove if he gets into the final two.0 -
The Tories have about a dozen viable candidates for leadership Labour have.......SouthamObserver said:
It's hilarious, isn't it?Scott_P said:Did Southam ever order that 12 gross of BETRAYAL T-shirts?
My golden run continues!!0 -
Indeed - what matters is not being last at each ballot... Presumably John Baron and his 3 votes or whatever will fall first, so we have until Thursday next week and will see where everyone stands relative to each other initially on Tuesday.rcs1000 said:
It's AV.The_Apocalypse said:@kle4 Yes, it'll be interesting to see if Gove and Boris being both in the mix splits the vote among LEAVERS.
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Allow me to translate:rottenborough said:Gove:
"I have repeatedly said that I do not want to be Prime Minister. That has always been my view. But events since last Thursday have weighed heavily with me."
Eh?
"I think Boris would fuck it up."0 -
When the going gets tough...oh jeeps cripes and other such nonsense words...look over there...dashes away.rottenborough said:Robert Peston @Peston 3m3 minutes ago
.@BorisJohnson may pull his leadership launch. Jesus0 -
Why would any Leaver vote for Boris now?The_Apocalypse said:@kle4 Yes, it'll be interesting to see if Gove and Boris being both in the mix splits the vote among LEAVERS.
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So, how's that Conservative unity going today?0
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As someone who has mostly voted conservative through my life I couldn't support them in 2015 with Cameron in charge for many reasons, Boris or May being selected would ensure that support would continue to be withheld. People like me (from talking to friends in similar situations) might support a Gove led tory party and definitely a Leadsom led one.
Our politicians in general currently however are a pretty mediocre lot and I do wonder if that is down to 40 years in the EU where far too often our politicians don't have to think about issues as Brussels does it for them0 -
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Gove really is the purist. Boris version of Brexit wasn't to his tastes so he's bringing the whole tent down. I am reminded of the Parris quote about the "smell of bonfires"0
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I think that's the moral. Gove and Boris just look SOOOOOOOOOO deceitful that I think the net effect is very much to boost Theresa... And possibly Andrea?JohnO said:In many ways Gove is more pernicious than Johnson but still can't suppress a cackle at the Blond Bustard's expense.
Even more detrmined to vote May.
Andrea Vs Theresa in the final two would be fun.0 -
Not sure but your betting advice has been very good on this contest. The only good advice quite frankly.AlastairMeeks said:So, how's that Conservative unity going today?
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Theresa May sounding like a prime minister.
No election until 2020, invoke Article 50 once we have a position to negotiate.0 -
We're all unified that Boris shouldn't be LeaderAlastairMeeks said:So, how's that Conservative unity going today?
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I did say that Sarah Vines fat finger was deliberate.John_M said:
Allow me to translate:rottenborough said:Gove:
"I have repeatedly said that I do not want to be Prime Minister. That has always been my view. But events since last Thursday have weighed heavily with me."
Eh?
"I think Boris would fuck it up."0 -
C'mon Gove! Please PB Tories vote Gove! A real reformer, May failed to bring down even non E.U migration and has not got a grip on Islamic extremism.0
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Oh dear - just think of the dissonance for some on hereSouthamObserver said:Gove and Osborne?
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I'm so using this line
@CMRanapia: There's so much man-on-man shafting going on in Westminster, the London Pride Parade was vanilla by comparison.0 -
Just had a feeling after yesterday. Close spouses would just not be on such different pages. I am a registered supporter but never felt the need to actually join. Is it too late?rottenborough said:Gove:
"I have repeatedly said that I do not want to be Prime Minister. That has always been my view. But events since last Thursday have weighed heavily with me."
Eh?0 -
She is a very clear speaker whether you agree with her or not. Quite refreshing. I like what I hear.0
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Way better than Labour unity, the Tories are all united against Boris!AlastairMeeks said:So, how's that Conservative unity going today?
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@NicoHines: So Boris Johnson winning is now the best chance of avoiding the implementation of Brexit? He may be the only one able to wriggle out
LOL0 -
GIN1138 said:
So has Gove been cooking this up with Osborne and Cameron since Monday (when he stayed behind after Cabinet for 45 minutes)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYPsoxpt0BU
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Anyone else sniff the odour of a lesser-spotted Osborne somewhere behind all this?0
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Tottenham CLP GC passed the motion of confidence in Corbyn last night. I think it's the first CLP in Labour held seat that I've seen coming out in his favour.
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The Tory Leavers dumping Boris as quickly as they're dumping working class Labour voters. Who'da thunk it?0
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But, the next step in the Tory leadership is to whittle gradually down to 2. Boris had 100+ MP supporters, plenty to get on the final membership ballot, and I'm not clear in my mind how many would hive off now Gove is in the picture.
Boris's task will be to be see off Gove in the round of 3 - I presume he will make it that far.
That still looks do-able to me. Anyone care to explain to me how this all transpires to fell Boris?0 -
Theresa May says: Brexit means Brexit
Theresa May, outlining her Conservative and prime ministerial leadership challenge says: "Brexit means Brexit. The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high and the public has given its verdict."
The home secretary says there should be no attempts to renege on that verdict and there should be no general election until 2020 and no emergency budget.
There should be no decision to invoke article 50 before the end of this year when Britain's negotiating terms are clear, she says.
There should be no change in Britain's trading arrangements with the EU or the legal status of overseas people living in the UK changed.
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TSE - didn't you write a thread about this?
I wonder if Boris even runs now....0 -
blackburn63 said:SouthamObserver said:Sandpit said:PlatoSaid said:blackburn63 said:OldKingCole said:ManWithThePlan said:
You can keep saying that till you are blue in the face but it doesn't make it so.logical_song said:
I really don't get why you persist with this line. The Leave campaign was about what our govt would be able to do if we left the EU, it is now the govt's responsibility to carry it out.ManWithThePlan said:
If we don't stop immigration then at least 70% of the electorate is going to believe the Brexiters perpetrated a massive fraud in order to pull us out of the EU. (The 25% of anti-immigration Leavers + the 48% of remainers)
There will be political consequences, particularly if Brexit is proving to be an expensive mistake by the time we each a deal0 -
Theresa May, Angela Eagle [ possibly ], Sturgeon, Leanne Wood [ not Welsh FM ] and the Ni FM.
Of course, it was. I wrote that yesterday.PlatoSaid said:
I did say that Sarah Vines fat finger was deliberate.John_M said:
Allow me to translate:rottenborough said:Gove:
"I have repeatedly said that I do not want to be Prime Minister. That has always been my view. But events since last Thursday have weighed heavily with me."
Eh?
"I think Boris would fuck it up."0 -
And as someone who's always voted Conservative, I couldn't vote for a Gove led party however much I like my MP (and I do). Not over-competent zealotry doesn't really appeal.ZenPagan said:As someone who has mostly voted conservative through my life I couldn't support them in 2015 with Cameron in charge for many reasons, Boris or May being selected would ensure that support would continue to be withheld. People like me (from talking to friends in similar situations) might support a Gove led tory party and definitely a Leadsom led one.
Our politicians in general currently however are a pretty mediocre lot and I do wonder if that is down to 40 years in the EU where far too often our politicians don't have to think about issues as Brussels does it for them0 -
DO not confuse - as Mike pointed out - public backers with votes. They just don't tally.Pro_Rata said:But, the next step in the Tory leadership is to whittle gradually down to 2. Boris had 100+ MP supporters, plenty to get on the final membership ballot, and I'm not clear in my mind how many would hive off now Gove is in the picture.
Boris's task will be to be see off Gove in the round of 3 - I presume he will make it that far.
That still looks do-able to me. Anyone care to explain to me how this all transpires to fell Boris?0 -
Some might say this is genius by the Tories. Boris gets tarred and feathered along with Farage with all the unrealistic promises of EU campaign and instead elect a middle way candidate that didn't say a word throughout the referendum.SouthamObserver said:The Tory Leavers dumping Boris as quickly as they're dumping working class Labour voters. Who'da thunk it?
As an aside, I notice the EU have just announced that following a meeting in March, talks with Turkey in the EU is starting again.0 -
May - using a brilliant backdrop of a library. Sensible, reassuring stable, prepared to use reason.0
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YupMortimer said:TSE - didn't you write a thread about this?
I wonder if Boris even runs now....0 -
He is a coward. We know that.FrancisUrquhart said:
When the going gets tough...oh jeeps cripes and other such nonsense words...look over there...dashes away.rottenborough said:Robert Peston @Peston 3m3 minutes ago
.@BorisJohnson may pull his leadership launch. Jesus0 -
So MPs vote on the first round on Tuesday ?
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Is anyone watching this, who doesn't think they're looking at the next PM?0
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The Leave manifesto was just like any Manifesto. Just to get votes.MaxPB said:
None of the Tory runners want to leave the single market (and ergo end free movement).rottenborough said:Gove:
"I have repeatedly said that I do not want to be Prime Minister. That has always been my view. But events since last Thursday have weighed heavily with me."
Eh?
I wonder if Cameron will put his hat in the ring. He will win 75% of the votes.0 -
Insufficiently smug - you need to be bragging about left-field predictions like that.TheScreamingEagles said:
YupMortimer said:TSE - didn't you write a thread about this?
I wonder if Boris even runs now....
Hope you backed it?
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May currently sealing the Tory leadership election I reckon with speech of a lifetime. Solid, stable, proper background, no trips to bars, no idealogy. Old skool Tory.0
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Surely not he has only just announced his intention to stand down from the Conservative Party.rottenborough said:Time for the grown-ups to take charge of this clusterf**** of a mess.
May for Tories.
Erm, not sure for Labour, where is David?
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May - I can do the job from day one. Powerful argument.0
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Good speech from May. Hers for the taking.0
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The Minister of Silly Walks.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
According to Guido, AndreaParma. sorry Leadsom, is also throwing her hat into the ring.0
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Wonderful speech by May.0
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The tartan was a good choice too!0
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That's OK - They have 984 years to complete matters.FrancisUrquhart said:
Some might say this is genius by the Tories. Boris gets tarred and feathered along with Farage with all the unrealistic promises of EU campaign and instead elect a middle way candidate that didn't say a word throughout the referendum.SouthamObserver said:The Tory Leavers dumping Boris as quickly as they're dumping working class Labour voters. Who'da thunk it?
As an aside, I notice the EU have just announced that following a meeting in March, talks with Turkey in the EU is starting again.
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@BethRigby: Govt source: "This series of House of Cards is much better than the last one."0
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May heading towards 1.5 on BF0
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May can then appoint Gove as Chancellor, who will dare to finish Thatcher's revolution, unencumbered by EU restrictions. This is going very well indeed.FrancisUrquhart said:
Some might say this is genius by the Tories. Boris gets tarred and feathered along with Farage with all the unrealistic promises of EU campaign and instead elect a middle way candidate that didn't say a word throughout the referendum.SouthamObserver said:The Tory Leavers dumping Boris as quickly as they're dumping working class Labour voters. Who'da thunk it?
As an aside, I notice the EU have just announced that following a meeting in March, talks with Turkey in the EU is starting again.0 -
At one point a few days ago, I was seriously considering 'spoiling' my ballot by a Cameron write-in vote.surbiton said:
The Leave manifesto was just like any Manifesto. Just to get votes.MaxPB said:
None of the Tory runners want to leave the single market (and ergo end free movement).rottenborough said:Gove:
"I have repeatedly said that I do not want to be Prime Minister. That has always been my view. But events since last Thursday have weighed heavily with me."
Eh?
I wonder if Cameron will put his hat in the ring. He will win 75% of the votes.0 -
So May sat out the referendum and spent a month writing this speech instead??0
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Sparrow, snap analysis: - Last week Michael Gove’s Vote Leave campaign ended the career of David Cameron - a man that Gove has counted as a close friend for more than a decade.
Today the Gove career-destroying machine has turned on Boris Johnson, who until about half an hour ago was the favourite to win the Conservative leadership. Gove, who is respected by colleagues, Tory members and the media, has just published a damning character reference about the man with whom he jointly ran the victorious Vote Leave campaign. Here it is again:
" I respect and admire all the candidates running for the leadership. In particular, I wanted to help build a team behindBoris Johnson so that a politician who argued for leaving the European Union could lead us to a better future.
But I have come, reluctantly, to the conclusion that Boris cannot provide the leadership or build the team for the task ahead."
Bojo is shafted.
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May says people want honesty from their politicians...
Not blatant lies in giant letters on the side of a bus, perhaps?0 -
May was impressive. Ticked all the boxes. An interesting prospect.
The main weakness is that she wants no GE and will take the same route as Gordon Brown took in 2007.
The next four years will be tough, managing that as an "unelected PM", without a personal mandate will be tough.0 -
“First, Brexit means Brexit. The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high, and the public gave their verdict. There must be no attempts to remain inside the EU, no attempts to rejoin it through the backdoor, and no second referendum. The country voted to leave the European Union, and it is the duty of the government and Parliament to make sure we do just that.”
Bravo Mrs May.0 -
Is she saying that there will be informal discussions before ? The EU has flatly said there won't be.TheWhiteRabbit said:Theresa May says: Brexit means Brexit
Theresa May, outlining her Conservative and prime ministerial leadership challenge says: "Brexit means Brexit. The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high and the public has given its verdict."
The home secretary says there should be no attempts to renege on that verdict and there should be no general election until 2020 and no emergency budget.
There should be no decision to invoke article 50 before the end of this year when Britain's negotiating terms are clear, she says.
There should be no change in Britain's trading arrangements with the EU or the legal status of overseas people living in the UK changed.0 -
Yes quite the contrast compared to the other ferrets in the sack.rottenborough said:May - I can do the job from day one. Powerful argument.
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@charlotteahenry: May blasts Boris with a water cannon.0
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I wonder if half of Boris's team will no longer be at his "launch".
If there is a launch.0 -
that is sensational from May and a guaranteed vote winner. she really is the one to beat even if i don't share her brand of conservatism.Floater said:“First, Brexit means Brexit. The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high, and the public gave their verdict. There must be no attempts to remain inside the EU, no attempts to rejoin it through the backdoor, and no second referendum. The country voted to leave the European Union, and it is the duty of the government and Parliament to make sure we do just that.”
Bravo Mrs May.0 -
Things seem to be moving at a dizzying pace, but Theresa May's speech leaps out of the chaos as the first, and so far only, serious plan by a grown-up.0
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Ouch, that joke about the water cannon was not pleasant.0
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John Redwood's blog hits the nail on the head this morning.
Stopping freedom of movement trumps the single market.0 -
Must thank Armando Iannouchi - this new live daily version of The Thick Of It is the best ever0
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may sticking the knife into Boris...it seems to be a new sport...hunting the lesser spotted Boris buffoon.0
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Not me. I can't see her being stopped now.Sandpit said:Is anyone watching this, who doesn't think they're looking at the next PM?
May - now laying into Boris deal making abilities using humour. Yes Boris, the joke is now on you.0 -
There already have been.surbiton said:
Is she saying that there will be informal discussions before ? The EU has flatly said there won't be.TheWhiteRabbit said:Theresa May says: Brexit means Brexit
Theresa May, outlining her Conservative and prime ministerial leadership challenge says: "Brexit means Brexit. The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high and the public has given its verdict."
The home secretary says there should be no attempts to renege on that verdict and there should be no general election until 2020 and no emergency budget.
There should be no decision to invoke article 50 before the end of this year when Britain's negotiating terms are clear, she says.
There should be no change in Britain's trading arrangements with the EU or the legal status of overseas people living in the UK changed.0 -
So in summary we have.
One candidate who never got on the fence.
One candidate who sat on the fence and
One candidate who tossed a coin to see which way to get off the fence.0 -
A bit like the EU In/Out, Head says May, Heart says Gove. I think Head will win this time.0
