Theresa May, outlining her Conservative and prime ministerial leadership challenge says: "Brexit means Brexit. The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high and the public has given its verdict."
The home secretary says there should be no attempts to renege on that verdict and there should be no general election until 2020 and no emergency budget.
There should be no decision to invoke article 50 before the end of this year when Britain's negotiating terms are clear, she says.
There should be no change in Britain's trading arrangements with the EU or the legal status of overseas people living in the UK changed.
Is she saying that there will be informal discussions before ? The EU has flatly said there won't be.
Sparrow, snap analysis: - Last week Michael Gove’s Vote Leave campaign ended the career of David Cameron - a man that Gove has counted as a close friend for more than a decade.
Today the Gove career-destroying machine has turned on Boris Johnson, who until about half an hour ago was the favourite to win the Conservative leadership. Gove, who is respected by colleagues, Tory members and the media, has just published a damning character reference about the man with whom he jointly ran the victorious Vote Leave campaign. Here it is again:
" I respect and admire all the candidates running for the leadership. In particular, I wanted to help build a team behindBoris Johnson so that a politician who argued for leaving the European Union could lead us to a better future.
But I have come, reluctantly, to the conclusion that Boris cannot provide the leadership or build the team for the task ahead."
Bojo is shafted.
That is brutal. Did Boris not guarantee him the Treasury? Foolish if he didn't.
Wonderful stuff from Ms May re Johnson's negotiating skills with Europe."Last time he negotiated a deal with the Germans he came back with 3 second-hand water cannon" which he couldn't use and Londoners are still paying for. Ouch!
I see the French finance minister has said that freedom of movement should be on the table at the negotiations. Perhaps those on here who are so certain of what can and cannot be achieved may not be correct.
Things seem to be moving at a dizzying pace, but Theresa May's speech leaps out of the chaos as the first, and so far only, serious plan by a grown-up.
Yep. Master class in action. Years of preparation by a professional.
“First, Brexit means Brexit. The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high, and the public gave their verdict. There must be no attempts to remain inside the EU, no attempts to rejoin it through the backdoor, and no second referendum. The country voted to leave the European Union, and it is the duty of the government and Parliament to make sure we do just that.”
Theresa May, outlining her Conservative and prime ministerial leadership challenge says: "Brexit means Brexit. The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high and the public has given its verdict."
The home secretary says there should be no attempts to renege on that verdict and there should be no general election until 2020 and no emergency budget.
There should be no decision to invoke article 50 before the end of this year when Britain's negotiating terms are clear, she says.
There should be no change in Britain's trading arrangements with the EU or the legal status of overseas people living in the UK changed.
Is she saying that there will be informal discussions before ? The EU has flatly said there won't be.
No - she's saying that we need time to discuss amongst ourselves what we want in detail and advise the NZ negotiators of our position.
Theresa May, outlining her Conservative and prime ministerial leadership challenge says: "Brexit means Brexit. The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high and the public has given its verdict."
The home secretary says there should be no attempts to renege on that verdict and there should be no general election until 2020 and no emergency budget.
There should be no decision to invoke article 50 before the end of this year when Britain's negotiating terms are clear, she says.
There should be no change in Britain's trading arrangements with the EU or the legal status of overseas people living in the UK changed.
Is she saying that there will be informal discussions before ? The EU has flatly said there won't be.
No, I suspect she’s saying that her in charge the Govt will sort out what it thinks is a reasonable negotiating position, with pre-planned fall-backs in it’s back pocket, and only then write the Article 50 letter.
Standing back for a moment. If the final two are May and Gove, it will be a MUCH closer race than with Johnson. Perhaps Theresa should loan some of MPs to the former undistinguished Mayor.
I'm bury resigning from the Shadow Cabinet I was appointed yesterday. But as I finished to draft my "Jeremy you are a man of great principle, but fuc* off now" letter (obviously with whole paragraph unaligned, random spaces between sentences and so on), I will launch my Tory leadership bid.
Sparrow, snap analysis: - Last week Michael Gove’s Vote Leave campaign ended the career of David Cameron - a man that Gove has counted as a close friend for more than a decade.
Today the Gove career-destroying machine has turned on Boris Johnson, who until about half an hour ago was the favourite to win the Conservative leadership. Gove, who is respected by colleagues, Tory members and the media, has just published a damning character reference about the man with whom he jointly ran the victorious Vote Leave campaign. Here it is again:
" I respect and admire all the candidates running for the leadership. In particular, I wanted to help build a team behindBoris Johnson so that a politician who argued for leaving the European Union could lead us to a better future.
But I have come, reluctantly, to the conclusion that Boris cannot provide the leadership or build the team for the task ahead."
Bojo is shafted.
That is brutal. Did Boris not guarantee him the Treasury? Foolish if he didn't.
I think it's more that Gove believes that Boris will water down the pure wine of a Brexit in favour of some fudge or other. Destroying Boris is just a desirable second order effect.
Tanding back for a moment. If the final two are May and Gove, it will be a MUCH closer race than with Johnson. Perhaps Theresa should loan some of MPs to the former undistinguished Mayor.
Theresa May, outlining her Conservative and prime ministerial leadership challenge says: "Brexit means Brexit. The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high and the public has given its verdict."
The home secretary says there should be no attempts to renege on that verdict and there should be no general election until 2020 and no emergency budget.
There should be no decision to invoke article 50 before the end of this year when Britain's negotiating terms are clear, she says.
There should be no change in Britain's trading arrangements with the EU or the legal status of overseas people living in the UK changed.
Is she saying that there will be informal discussions before ? The EU has flatly said there won't be.
No, I suspect she’s saying that her in charge the Govt will sort out what it thinks is a reasonable negotiating position, with pre-planned fall-backs in it’s back pocket, and only then write the Article 50 letter.
Negotiating with the EU has been ruled out by the EU. I don't know whether negotiating with EFTA has been ruled out by EFTA, which is something completely different.
Tanding back for a moment. If the final two are May and Gove, it will be a MUCH closer race than with Johnson. Perhaps Theresa should loan some of MPs to the former undistinguished Mayor.
Comment of the day so far.
I have a feeling Boris not standing might be the tactical choice. The stop May choice, even.
Tanding back for a moment. If the final two are May and Gove, it will be a MUCH closer race than with Johnson. Perhaps Theresa should loan some of MPs to the former undistinguished Mayor.
Gove starts from a worse place in the membership.
No, I don't think that's true, but I will conduct 'soundings' from around the patch.
Insufficiently smug - you need to be bragging about left-field predictions like that. Hope you backed it?
I've been betting on this market since 2006, I think I've backed everyone at some point. Except Boris, I've been laying him like one of many mistresses.
Theresa May, outlining her Conservative and prime ministerial leadership challenge says: "Brexit means Brexit. The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high and the public has given its verdict."
The home secretary says there should be no attempts to renege on that verdict and there should be no general election until 2020 and no emergency budget.
There should be no decision to invoke article 50 before the end of this year when Britain's negotiating terms are clear, she says.
There should be no change in Britain's trading arrangements with the EU or the legal status of overseas people living in the UK changed.
Good solid speech. No change to trading arrangements means free movement continues. OK with me, but may not be universally popular.
I am still tickled by the idea that London's financial sector will be shared out between Amsterdam, Paris and Frankfurt. The whole advantage of a financial cluster is that it exists in one place where all the other firms and talent is. Amsterdam is not even a second tier financial cluster. The bankers will surely love the 49% income tax rate in Paris with a wealth tax on top. And Frankfurt is one of the most boring cities in the world. People dread going on business trips there, God forbid living there. Meanwhile London will increase the two thirds of financial service exports to non-EU countries as we sign more trade deals, and we can also scrap the banker bonus cap.
People also appear to be forgetting employment laws in France.
I am sure dynamic businesses paying huge salaries will love that environment...........
That's also a good point. Most of the businesses that pay the very high salaries and bonuses are very performance-oriented with lots of hiring and firing. What would attract them to a country where not only are income taxes on high earners massive, but it's almost impossible to fire anyone?
I have first hand experience of French employment laws, honestly, such a disincentive to take staff on.
Tanding back for a moment. If the final two are May and Gove, it will be a MUCH closer race than with Johnson. Perhaps Theresa should loan some of MPs to the former undistinguished Mayor.
May was impressive. Ticked all the boxes. An interesting prospect.
The main weakness is that she wants no GE and will take the same route as Gordon Brown took in 2007.
The next four years will be tough, managing that as an "unelected PM", without a personal mandate will be tough.
Given that the only thing a general election will do is destroy the labour party at the cost of introducing some (probably mad) UKIP MPs what would be achieved by holding one?
Better to hold your nose and use what's available to you to avoid one. And if needs must bring in 1 or 2 experts from elsewhere to pacify everyone...
Theresa May, outlining her Conservative and prime ministerial leadership challenge says: "Brexit means Brexit. The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high and the public has given its verdict."
The home secretary says there should be no attempts to renege on that verdict and there should be no general election until 2020 and no emergency budget.
There should be no decision to invoke article 50 before the end of this year when Britain's negotiating terms are clear, she says.
There should be no change in Britain's trading arrangements with the EU or the legal status of overseas people living in the UK changed.
Is she saying that there will be informal discussions before ? The EU has flatly said there won't be.
There are 170+ other nations that we can commence discussions with even if the EU will not meet. What is the real probability of no backroom discussion with EU leaders?
Tanding back for a moment. If the final two are May and Gove, it will be a MUCH closer race than with Johnson. Perhaps Theresa should loan some of MPs to the former undistinguished Mayor.
Gove starts from a worse place in the membership.
No, I don't think that's true, but I will conduct 'soundings' from around the patch.
Well, having stabbed Boris in the back will have changed things. Gove has a stall he didn't have before.
It is certainly more difficult to attack Gove compared to Johnson, if you're May.
I see the French finance minister has said that freedom of movement should be on the table at the negotiations. Perhaps those on here who are so certain of what can and cannot be achieved may not be correct.
In truth nobody knows. Either side are going to quote people that suit there side of the argument. Every news outlet is carrying at least 2 or 3 contradictory opinions from EU politicians. Opinion within the other 27 EU countries will range from "give them everything they want" to "bring them to their knees".
We won't even know till September what sort of Brexit we are going to ask for let alone whether we stand any chance of getting it.
I see the French finance minister has said that freedom of movement should be on the table at the negotiations. Perhaps those on here who are so certain of what can and cannot be achieved may not be correct.
May was impressive. Ticked all the boxes. An interesting prospect.
The main weakness is that she wants no GE and will take the same route as Gordon Brown took in 2007.
The next four years will be tough, managing that as an "unelected PM", without a personal mandate will be tough.
Given that the only thing a general election will do is destroy the labour party at the cost of introducing some (probably mad) UKIP MPs what would be achieved by holding one?
Better to hold your nose and use what's available to you to avoid one. And if needs must bring in 1 or 2 experts from elsewhere to pacify everyone...
There is enough chaos without having a GE. Wilson handed over to Callaghan. That's how it works in UK.
Tanding back for a moment. If the final two are May and Gove, it will be a MUCH closer race than with Johnson. Perhaps Theresa should loan some of MPs to the former undistinguished Mayor.
Gove starts from a worse place in the membership.
I will be very conflicted on May v Gove.
Don't be, May will deliver the referendum result, but she won't do so in a way that destroys our businesses and employment. We can fix the issue of mass immigration on this side of the fence by reforming benefits and education. If you are a Tory you must believe in supply side reforms rather than consumer side restrictions, ending free movement is a restriction on the consumer side which will damage our economy and create mass labour shortages.
i'm not making many shrewd political betting calls recently but Boris price now looks value to me and May shouldn't be odds on. It will be May versus ANOTHER and she still has to beat the ANOTHER in the membership ballot.
Philip CollinsVerified account @PCollinsTimes Philip Collins Retweeted Sam Coates Times No election till 2020 is good news for Labour. Gives them time to get competitive.
Is Eagle a pretty much a sure thing (c. 90% likelihood) or am I completely misreading the situation?
Eagle is in the process of collecting her 51 signatures. Were I an MP, I'd consider being the 50th person backing her, but not necessarily the 52nd. Like I said yesterday, the 172 Labour MPs should basically be setting themselves up as a papal conclave.
I just have a feeling that the Labour election will end having 3 or 4 runners. Does that increaase the danger of Corbyn squeaking over the line - slightly, but it's a risk worth taking to get a candidate who you could actually see as PM.
Insufficiently smug - you need to be bragging about left-field predictions like that. Hope you backed it?
I've been betting on this market since 2006, I think I've backed everyone at some point. Except Boris, I've been laying him like one of many mistresses.
By being flakey on immigration controls Boris has blown his chances of being PM.
As a result Gove has to stand and that blows the chances of any Brexit candidate winning.
May is only committed to "more control" over immigration not an Australian points system. So May is also flakey on immigration controls.
May is vulnerable on immigration.
I don't think the perception is like that. May has the personal qualities to be seen as being able to control immigration, with a record that - in the members' eye - doesn't contradict that.
Theresa May, outlining her Conservative and prime ministerial leadership challenge says: "Brexit means Brexit. The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high and the public has given its verdict."
The home secretary says there should be no attempts to renege on that verdict and there should be no general election until 2020 and no emergency budget.
There should be no decision to invoke article 50 before the end of this year when Britain's negotiating terms are clear, she says.
There should be no change in Britain's trading arrangements with the EU or the legal status of overseas people living in the UK changed.
Good solid speech. No change to trading arrangements means free movement continues. OK with me, but may not be universally popular.
she said thats only until we actually leave, she clearly said that there was no mandate for freedom of movement, and no one should be able to wriggle out of that
Philip CollinsVerified account @PCollinsTimes Philip Collins Retweeted Sam Coates Times No election till 2020 is good news for Labour. Gives them time to get competitive.
Tanding back for a moment. If the final two are May and Gove, it will be a MUCH closer race than with Johnson. Perhaps Theresa should loan some of MPs to the former undistinguished Mayor.
Gove starts from a worse place in the membership.
I will be very conflicted on May v Gove.
If you are a Tory you must believe in supply side reforms rather than consumer side restrictions, ending free movement is a restriction on the consumer side which will damage our economy and create mass labour shortages.
It's what the people voted for, so it must be enacted
Subtle message from Teresa May wearing Government Tartan.
*Theresa!
Indeed. Teresa May is a porn star.
My computer crashed before I could correct that error. But Theresa May is wearing Government Tartan, subtle reminded to Sturgeon, Gove, Boris et al. What a minx.
I see the French finance minister has said that freedom of movement should be on the table at the negotiations. Perhaps those on here who are so certain of what can and cannot be achieved may not be correct.
We've been doing this on the last couple of threads: They're trying to tempt British voters into giving up passporting, in exchange for the ability to restrict immigration, to the benefit of Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt.
Is Eagle a pretty much a sure thing (c. 90% likelihood) or am I completely misreading the situation?
Eagle is in the process of collecting her 51 signatures. Were I an MP, I'd consider being the 50th person backing her, but not necessarily the 52nd. Like I said yesterday, the 172 Labour MPs should basically be setting themselves up as a papal conclave.
I just have a feeling that the Labour election will end having 3 or 4 runners. Does that increaase the danger of Corbyn squeaking over the line - slightly, but it's a risk worth taking to get a candidate who you could actually see as PM.
The issue is the same as the last Labour election. Multiple candidates all attack each other and Corbyn sneaks down the left hand flank.. This sadly does need to be one person against Corbyn anything else is utterly pointless..
If Corbyn doesn't stand however all bets are off and you could then have multiple candidates.
Tanding back for a moment. If the final two are May and Gove, it will be a MUCH closer race than with Johnson. Perhaps Theresa should loan some of MPs to the former undistinguished Mayor.
Gove starts from a worse place in the membership.
I will be very conflicted on May v Gove.
If you are a Tory you must believe in supply side reforms rather than consumer side restrictions, ending free movement is a restriction on the consumer side which will damage our economy and create mass labour shortages.
It's what the people voted for, so it must be enacted
No, the people voted to leave the EU. Nothing more than that.
I see the French finance minister has said that freedom of movement should be on the table at the negotiations. Perhaps those on here who are so certain of what can and cannot be achieved may not be correct.
We've been doing this on the last couple of threads: They're trying to tempt British voters into giving up passporting, in exchange for the ability to restrict immigration, to the benefit of Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt.
Indeed.
It will take some time for the Hysteriat to realise that their bubble has popped.
Is this really what it seems? There was talk yesterday that Boris had enough votes to lend them to the third candidate in order to freeze May out of the final round. Gove's action scuppers that. Perhaps Gove is May's sleeper agent.
Theresa May, outlining her Conservative and prime ministerial leadership challenge says: "Brexit means Brexit. The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high and the public has given its verdict."
The home secretary says there should be no attempts to renege on that verdict and there should be no general election until 2020 and no emergency budget.
There should be no decision to invoke article 50 before the end of this year when Britain's negotiating terms are clear, she says.
There should be no change in Britain's trading arrangements with the EU or the legal status of overseas people living in the UK changed.
Good solid speech. No change to trading arrangements means free movement continues. OK with me, but may not be universally popular.
she said thats only until we actually leave, she clearly said that there was no mandate for freedom of movement, and no one should be able to wriggle out of that
Yes, she'll get her fig leaf. 180 day waiting times are my bet.
Statements by Tory politicians on whether an early GE is likely should be viewed through the prism of whether it looks as though Jeremy Corbyn is about to be defenestrated.
I see the French finance minister has said that freedom of movement should be on the table at the negotiations. Perhaps those on here who are so certain of what can and cannot be achieved may not be correct.
I saw Macron a few weeks ago (and reported it directly to this board): he said EEA, no passporting. So presumably, he's now saying "EEA, no passporting, no FoM".
I see the French finance minister has said that freedom of movement should be on the table at the negotiations. Perhaps those on here who are so certain of what can and cannot be achieved may not be correct.
We've been doing this on the last couple of threads: They're trying to tempt British voters into giving up passporting, in exchange for the ability to restrict immigration, to the benefit of Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt.
In the believe that passporting is actually that important.
Sparrow, snap analysis: - Last week Michael Gove’s Vote Leave campaign ended the career of David Cameron - a man that Gove has counted as a close friend for more than a decade.
Today the Gove career-destroying machine has turned on Boris Johnson, who until about half an hour ago was the favourite to win the Conservative leadership. Gove, who is respected by colleagues, Tory members and the media, has just published a damning character reference about the man with whom he jointly ran the victorious Vote Leave campaign. Here it is again:
" I respect and admire all the candidates running for the leadership. In particular, I wanted to help build a team behindBoris Johnson so that a politician who argued for leaving the European Union could lead us to a better future.
But I have come, reluctantly, to the conclusion that Boris cannot provide the leadership or build the team for the task ahead."
Bojo is shafted.
That is brutal. Did Boris not guarantee him the Treasury? Foolish if he didn't.
I think it's more that Gove believes that Boris will water down the pure wine of a Brexit in favour of some fudge or other. Destroying Boris is just a desirable second order effect.
I'm definitely behind Gove, May isn't what I want in policy terms.
Statements by Tory politicians on whether an early GE is likely should be viewed through the prism of whether it looks as though Jeremy Corbyn is about to be defenestrated.
I imagine if Corbyn hangs on May would go for a snap election in October/November.
I trust everyone who continuously attacked Brown for 3 years for being "unelected" will express the same reactions to the new Con leader if there's no election?
I see the French finance minister has said that freedom of movement should be on the table at the negotiations. Perhaps those on here who are so certain of what can and cannot be achieved may not be correct.
I saw Macron a few weeks ago (and reported it directly to this board): he said EEA, no passporting. So presumably, he's now saying "EEA, no passporting, no FoM".
Yes, that was what we said in our report. Restricting FoM will mean giving up a big prize, probably passporting rights (or single market for services, which is just financial passporting plus a few other things).
May is not vulnerable on immigration. The EU result is a reflection of the fact that the electorate understand that the government is powerless to prevent it.
I like Gove. I think he is a thoughtful, intellectual, spiky asset. And although he'd be a good leader, I just don't think he would win a GE.
I like Johnson. I think he is popular, a good campaigner and a vital asset. But he's flaky and lacks top level bravery and this week he's proved he's not a leader.
I was indifferent about May. But this morning she's proved she is a leader.
Statements by Tory politicians on whether an early GE is likely should be viewed through the prism of whether it looks as though Jeremy Corbyn is about to be defenestrated.
I imagine if Corbyn hangs on May would go for a snap election in October/November.
Doubt it. Too much messing about before it can happen. Further, would the electorate take kindly to be shouted at again. We’ve just seen one electoral gamble go badly wrong.
Is Eagle a pretty much a sure thing (c. 90% likelihood) or am I completely misreading the situation?
Eagle is in the process of collecting her 51 signatures. Were I an MP, I'd consider being the 50th person backing her, but not necessarily the 52nd. Like I said yesterday, the 172 Labour MPs should basically be setting themselves up as a papal conclave.
I just have a feeling that the Labour election will end having 3 or 4 runners. Does that increaase the danger of Corbyn squeaking over the line - slightly, but it's a risk worth taking to get a candidate who you could actually see as PM.
The issue is the same as the last Labour election. Multiple candidates all attack each other and Corbyn sneaks down the left hand flank.. This sadly does need to be one person against Corbyn anything else is utterly pointless..
If Corbyn doesn't stand however all bets are off and you could then have multiple candidates.
We never got to that stage - Corbyn didn't exactly squeak down the middle, so the theory is untested. Personally, I wouldn't go for more than 3 candidates though, including Corbyn, and I'm pretty sure most of the fire this time will be directed his way, not between the other 2.
The Tory Leavers dumping Boris as quickly as they're dumping working class Labour voters. Who'da thunk it?
Some might say this is genius by the Tories. Boris gets tarred and feathered along with Farage with all the unrealistic promises of EU campaign and instead elect a middle way candidate that didn't say a word throughout the referendum.
As an aside, I notice the EU have just announced that following a meeting in March, talks with Turkey in the EU is starting again.
The UK out, Turkey in. I'm sure some in Brussels will think that fair swap....
I trust everyone who continuously attacked Brown for 3 years for being "unelected" will express the same reactions to the new Con leader if there's no election?
Humans have many attributes. "Consistency" isn't one of them.
That said, if the optics are right, don't rule out a GE. The Labour party....I have no words for what they are at the moment - "divided" doesn't do it justice...riven by internal dissent is just not up for one.
"Did Andrew Cooper's polls lose the referendum?" "What purpose did the polling day announcement of a ten-point lead serve except to persuade Remain voters to stay at home?" "Lord Cooper has form: last year, his bullishly named ‘Populus predictor’ gave a wonderfully precise figure for the Tories’ chance of winning a majority: 0.5 per cent. On polling day, he denounced Cameron’s triumphant general election campaign as a ‘prolonged exhibition of insanity’. All of which raises a question: why put him in charge of an EU referendum campaign whose failure could (and did) destroy the Prime Minister?"
Tanding back for a moment. If the final two are May and Gove, it will be a MUCH closer race than with Johnson. Perhaps Theresa should loan some of MPs to the former undistinguished Mayor.
Gove starts from a worse place in the membership.
I will be very conflicted on May v Gove.
If you are a Tory you must believe in supply side reforms rather than consumer side restrictions, ending free movement is a restriction on the consumer side which will damage our economy and create mass labour shortages.
It's what the people voted for, so it must be enacted
Tanding back for a moment. If the final two are May and Gove, it will be a MUCH closer race than with Johnson. Perhaps Theresa should loan some of MPs to the former undistinguished Mayor.
Gove starts from a worse place in the membership.
I will be very conflicted on May v Gove.
If you are a Tory you must believe in supply side reforms rather than consumer side restrictions, ending free movement is a restriction on the consumer side which will damage our economy and create mass labour shortages.
It's what the people voted for, so it must be enacted
The whole point of Parliamentary documentary is to prevent popular but stupid things from being enacted.
Theresa May, outlining her Conservative and prime ministerial leadership challenge says: "Brexit means Brexit. The campaign was fought, the vote was held, turnout was high and the public has given its verdict."
The home secretary says there should be no attempts to renege on that verdict and there should be no general election until 2020 and no emergency budget.
There should be no decision to invoke article 50 before the end of this year when Britain's negotiating terms are clear, she says.
There should be no change in Britain's trading arrangements with the EU or the legal status of overseas people living in the UK changed.
Is she saying that there will be informal discussions before ? The EU has flatly said there won't be.
No, I suspect she’s saying that her in charge the Govt will sort out what it thinks is a reasonable negotiating position, with pre-planned fall-backs in it’s back pocket, and only then write the Article 50 letter.
Negotiating with the EU has been ruled out by the EU. I don't know whether negotiating with EFTA has been ruled out by EFTA, which is something completely different.
There's no problem negotiating with EFTA, but EFTA is Norway, Switzerland, Liechtenstein and Iceland repesenting 10 million people in total, while the EU is Germany, France and 25 other countries representing 450 million people. Those are the important guys.
I see the French finance minister has said that freedom of movement should be on the table at the negotiations. Perhaps those on here who are so certain of what can and cannot be achieved may not be correct.
We've been doing this on the last couple of threads: They're trying to tempt British voters into giving up passporting, in exchange for the ability to restrict immigration, to the benefit of Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt.
As I pointed out earlier, that's a fool's errand as none of those three will compete with London unless we elect Corbyn Prime Minister.
In addition, passporting is only worth about £10bn max. If that's our only loss Brexit will be a bargain. We can get at least £30bn from improved regulation and perhaps £5bn from a reduced membership fee. That's before we get a trade deal with the US and others.
i'm not making many shrewd political betting calls recently but Boris price now looks value to me and May shouldn't be odds on. It will be May versus ANOTHER and she still has to beat the ANOTHER in the membership ballot.
I've backed Boris! 6.4-6.6.
That's pretty much the price at which I baled out of my remaining BoJo. He could well be 1000 in an hour
Tanding back for a moment. If the final two are May and Gove, it will be a MUCH closer race than with Johnson. Perhaps Theresa should loan some of MPs to the former undistinguished Mayor.
Gove starts from a worse place in the membership.
I will be very conflicted on May v Gove.
If you are a Tory you must believe in supply side reforms rather than consumer side restrictions, ending free movement is a restriction on the consumer side which will damage our economy and create mass labour shortages.
It's what the people voted for, so it must be enacted
Tanding back for a moment. If the final two are May and Gove, it will be a MUCH closer race than with Johnson. Perhaps Theresa should loan some of MPs to the former undistinguished Mayor.
Gove starts from a worse place in the membership.
I will be very conflicted on May v Gove.
If you are a Tory you must believe in supply side reforms rather than consumer side restrictions, ending free movement is a restriction on the consumer side which will damage our economy and create mass labour shortages.
It's what the people voted for, so it must be enacted
The whole point of Parliamentary documentary is to prevent popular but stupid things from being enacted. In any case, Free Movement wasn't on the ballot.
Sparrow, snap analysis: - Last week Michael Gove’s Vote Leave campaign ended the career of David Cameron - a man that Gove has counted as a close friend for more than a decade.
Today the Gove career-destroying machine has turned on Boris Johnson, who until about half an hour ago was the favourite to win the Conservative leadership. Gove, who is respected by colleagues, Tory members and the media, has just published a damning character reference about the man with whom he jointly ran the victorious Vote Leave campaign. Here it is again:
" I respect and admire all the candidates running for the leadership. In particular, I wanted to help build a team behindBoris Johnson so that a politician who argued for leaving the European Union could lead us to a better future.
But I have come, reluctantly, to the conclusion that Boris cannot provide the leadership or build the team for the task ahead."
Bojo is shafted.
That is brutal. Did Boris not guarantee him the Treasury? Foolish if he didn't.
I think it's more that Gove believes that Boris will water down the pure wine of a Brexit in favour of some fudge or other. Destroying Boris is just a desirable second order effect.
I'm definitely behind Gove, May isn't what I want in policy terms.
What's good with Gove standing is he'll be great during the campaign, and will force promises out of May (and the others) on Article 50 etc.
Good move too from May on ditching the budget surplus. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures and boxing herself in on the finances would've been silly.
Tanding back for a moment. If the final two are May and Gove, it will be a MUCH closer race than with Johnson. Perhaps Theresa should loan some of MPs to the former undistinguished Mayor.
Gove starts from a worse place in the membership.
I will be very conflicted on May v Gove.
If you are a Tory you must believe in supply side reforms rather than consumer side restrictions, ending free movement is a restriction on the consumer side which will damage our economy and create mass labour shortages.
It's what the people voted for, so it must be enacted
No, the people voted to leave the EU. Nothing more than that.
Comments
Ouch!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/30/freedom-of-movement-reform-on-the-table-for-brexit-talks-suggest/
The direction from here to 2020 has been given by the electorate.
Serious. Punchy. Credible. Sprinkled with humour. A glint in the eye.
Very impressive.
Might be saying no election for two reasons
1. To keep markets calm.
2. To keep Con MP's calm.
We'll see if that line holds to the autumn.
I have a feeling Boris not standing might be the tactical choice. The stop May choice, even.
Better to hold your nose and use what's available to you to avoid one. And if needs must bring in 1 or 2 experts from elsewhere to pacify everyone...
It is certainly more difficult to attack Gove compared to Johnson, if you're May.
We won't even know till September what sort of Brexit we are going to ask for let alone whether we stand any chance of getting it.
As a result Gove has to stand and that blows the chances of any Brexit candidate winning.
May is only committed to "more control" over immigration not an Australian points system. So May is also flakey on immigration controls.
I've backed Boris! 6.4-6.6.
@PCollinsTimes Philip Collins Retweeted Sam Coates Times
No election till 2020 is good news for Labour. Gives them time to get competitive.
I just have a feeling that the Labour election will end having 3 or 4 runners. Does that increaase the danger of Corbyn squeaking over the line - slightly, but it's a risk worth taking to get a candidate who you could actually see as PM.
My sense is core vote leavers wanted some absolute assurances from Boris on EU exit strategy - that's some of what's behind Leadsom, gove
So Bozza is the best candidate to keep us in the single market. I might vote for him now.
(And one of HIS many mistresses? Or yours??)
The fundamentals are very good for him if he makes the final round.
Farage lights cigar....
Theresa May looks like a prime minister. In charge, good humour, sounds like she knows what she's doing.
@RupertMyers: @DPJHodges so good that's the first time you've seen her do it.
If Corbyn doesn't stand however all bets are off and you could then have multiple candidates.
It will take some time for the Hysteriat to realise that their bubble has popped.
On a personal note I think Gove would do well to lose the specs and get contacts and stand up a bit straighter.
May 19.77
Gove -3.97
Johnson 4.92
Leadsom -188.5
Crabb -604.8
Baron -188.5
Fox 61.45
Edit: Ah yes
Well what would you expect from PB's foremost classicist.
Non-EU migration is mainly fee-paying students.
I like Johnson. I think he is popular, a good campaigner and a vital asset. But he's flaky and lacks top level bravery and this week he's proved he's not a leader.
I was indifferent about May. But this morning she's proved she is a leader.
My money is on May. Super impressive.
The UK out, Turkey in. I'm sure some in Brussels will think that fair swap....
That said, if the optics are right, don't rule out a GE. The Labour party....I have no words for what they are at the moment - "divided" doesn't do it justice...riven by internal dissent is just not up for one.
"What purpose did the polling day announcement of a ten-point lead serve except to persuade Remain voters to stay at home?"
"Lord Cooper has form: last year, his bullishly named ‘Populus predictor’ gave a wonderfully precise figure for the Tories’ chance of winning a majority: 0.5 per cent. On polling day, he denounced Cameron’s triumphant general election campaign as a ‘prolonged exhibition of insanity’. All of which raises a question: why put him in charge of an EU referendum campaign whose failure could (and did) destroy the Prime Minister?"
http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/how-the-pms-pollster-pal-called-it-wrong-again/
Boris speech at 11am to go ahead.
Sky now running clip of Gove in one of the recent debates saying he wouldn't run.
ROFLMAO
Keep up!
In addition, passporting is only worth about £10bn max. If that's our only loss Brexit will be a bargain. We can get at least £30bn from improved regulation and perhaps £5bn from a reduced membership fee. That's before we get a trade deal with the US and others.
Good move too from May on ditching the budget surplus. Extraordinary times call for extraordinary measures and boxing herself in on the finances would've been silly.