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Comments
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Happy days! Very happy with either Gove or May.
May gets it as more voter friendly.0 -
Whoa - Gove standing!!!
Edit: Thanks to whoever it was here that tipped him at 8/1 the other week, good call and I owe you a beer if he wins!0 -
We need more LEAVE candidates surely ?
Johnson, Gove, Baron, Fox, Leadsom ....
Peter Bone please ..
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Yuck. Osborne has to walk the plank.SouthamObserver said:Gove and Osborne?
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I don't think I can really comment on that example!matt said:
Perhaps he takes the view that it's better to be senior in an organisation going somewhere than leader of a failing organisation. See by way of example the Anglo "mergers" of Scottish law firms.AlastairMeeks said:
He doesn't seriously think he would lead a grouping comprised of ten times as many MPs as he currently commands, does he?TheScreamingEagles said:Tim Farron has left open the possibility of setting up a new party with elements of the Labour party who are unhappy under Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/liberal-democrats/tim-farron/news/76748/tim-farron-refuses-rule-out-new0 -
"Refuses to rule out" must be the most worthless phrase in political reporting.matt said:
Perhaps he takes the view that it's better to be senior in an organisation going somewhere than leader of a failing organisation. See by way of example the Anglo "mergers" of Scottish law firms.AlastairMeeks said:
He doesn't seriously think he would lead a grouping comprised of ten times as many MPs as he currently commands, does he?TheScreamingEagles said:Tim Farron has left open the possibility of setting up a new party with elements of the Labour party who are unhappy under Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/liberal-democrats/tim-farron/news/76748/tim-farron-refuses-rule-out-new0 -
WOW!
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Not great. He's got interesting ideas, but seems divisive to me. I am surprised he'd stand, I assume this might split the Boris vote?The_Apocalypse said:Imagine if the Conservative party elect Gove as their leader. Jesus H Christ.
How do PBers rank Gove's chances of getting elected?
Boris will be crying into his cornflakes now though....
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This is the opportunity for the PCP to kill off Boris. Gove v May for the members to choose from.0
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... along with 'we have no plans to ...'IanB2 said:
"Refuses to rule out" must be the most worthless phrase in political reporting.matt said:
Perhaps he takes the view that it's better to be senior in an organisation going somewhere than leader of a failing organisation. See by way of example the Anglo "mergers" of Scottish law firms.AlastairMeeks said:
He doesn't seriously think he would lead a grouping comprised of ten times as many MPs as he currently commands, does he?TheScreamingEagles said:Tim Farron has left open the possibility of setting up a new party with elements of the Labour party who are unhappy under Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/liberal-democrats/tim-farron/news/76748/tim-farron-refuses-rule-out-new0 -
Croydon South CLP passed the no confidence in JC motion 27 to 6
Finchley CLP passed the no confidence motion too
SW Norfolk CLP passed the confidence in JC motion.0 -
I'm really enthused. Gove is one of the few politicians I genuinely admire.
Go MiGo!0 -
Yep. My inkling is that Gove wants CoE... And May will give it to him if she wins... And you really don't want to be Cabinet member for Leave do you...kle4 said:
Not great. He's got interesting ideas, but seems divisive to me. I am surprised he'd stand, I assume this might split the Boris vote?The_Apocalypse said:Imagine if the Conservative party elect Gove as their leader. Jesus H Christ.
How do PBers rank Gove's chances of getting elected?
Boris will be crying into his cornflakes now though....0 -
https://twitter.com/brianspanner1/status/746488316510482433
OK, I fucking will!
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I'd love Gove to say he is standing as an interim leader until say early 2019, to oversee Brexit and no more. Meantime, a few more can get Cabinet experience and show their true worth (or otherwise) to the voters for the 2020's. I think he'd walk it then.....0
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A long walk and a short plank, please!anotherDave said:0 -
More worrying than Boris. I don't think he'd make it, the split may end up looking a lot like it is now, with around 40% of leavers going for May and few to no remainers going for Gove, but it may be as low as 20% of leavers going for May. Gove has a different appeal to Boris with different drawbacks.The_Apocalypse said:Imagine if the Conservative party elect Gove as their leader. Jesus H Christ.
How do PBers rank Gove's chances of getting elected?
Boris will be crying into his cornflakes now though....
We also need to see what happens with Labour, if they manage to walk back on to the path of electablility then May has it in the bag. Gove doesn't have enough wider appeal among the public to beat an electable Labour party in 2020.0 -
Just seen the news.
I'm now assuming Boris is done for.
A cruel blow by the PCP.0 -
And "could". Or "may"......logical_song said:
... along with 'we have no plans to ...'IanB2 said:
"Refuses to rule out" must be the most worthless phrase in political reporting.matt said:
Perhaps he takes the view that it's better to be senior in an organisation going somewhere than leader of a failing organisation. See by way of example the Anglo "mergers" of Scottish law firms.AlastairMeeks said:
He doesn't seriously think he would lead a grouping comprised of ten times as many MPs as he currently commands, does he?TheScreamingEagles said:Tim Farron has left open the possibility of setting up a new party with elements of the Labour party who are unhappy under Jeremy Corbyn.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/liberal-democrats/tim-farron/news/76748/tim-farron-refuses-rule-out-new0 -
Andrea Leadsom standing too.0
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Boris, Gove, Leadsom, Fox. Just about every Leaver other than Priti is having a go.
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Amidst the PB Leave euphoria, I am still not sure.eek said:
Yep. My inkling is that Gove wants CoE... And May will give it to him if she wins... And you really don't want to be Cabinet member for Leave do you...kle4 said:
Not great. He's got interesting ideas, but seems divisive to me. I am surprised he'd stand, I assume this might split the Boris vote?The_Apocalypse said:Imagine if the Conservative party elect Gove as their leader. Jesus H Christ.
How do PBers rank Gove's chances of getting elected?
Boris will be crying into his cornflakes now though....
I don't like people lying to me and I know that events change so people change their minds but he looked at us and said he wouldn't.
But then, you know, I am a conservative Conservative. Not one of these mobile, going through the Parties on the whim of a bad speech or wrongly raised eyebrow, jelly Conservatives.0 -
I'm also intrigued by the idea of having someone who doesn't want to fly as our PM. European meetings only for him - I guess that would put a stop to this bold new globally trading Britain. A problem for G7 meetings too, I guess.SouthamObserver said:Gove made the same promises as Boris.
Wonderful stuff.
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So Boris doesn't make the ballot...
Oh dear, what a shame.0 -
Boles has ditched Boris and gone over to Gove.
I can only think Johnson has has a serious wobble behind the scenes.
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So that leaked email was accidental huh?0
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You might say that, I couldn't possibly comment.....TheScreamingEagles said:So that leaked email was accidental huh?
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What. The. Fuck. Is. Happening. To. British. Politics?0
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I think part of the battle is to stop Boris being in the final 2...TOPPING said:
Amidst the PB Leave euphoria, I am still not sure.eek said:
Yep. My inkling is that Gove wants CoE... And May will give it to him if she wins... And you really don't want to be Cabinet member for Leave do you...kle4 said:
Not great. He's got interesting ideas, but seems divisive to me. I am surprised he'd stand, I assume this might split the Boris vote?The_Apocalypse said:Imagine if the Conservative party elect Gove as their leader. Jesus H Christ.
How do PBers rank Gove's chances of getting elected?
Boris will be crying into his cornflakes now though....
I don't like people lying to me and I know that events change so people change their minds but he looked at us and said he wouldn't.
But then, you know, I am a conservative Conservative. Not one of these mobile, going through the Parties on the whim of a bad speech or wrongly raised eyebrow, jelly Conservatives.0 -
It could end up like Ed Milliband standing for Labour leader just to raise his profile and then accidentally winning it.The_Apocalypse said:Imagine if the Conservative party elect Gove as their leader. Jesus H Christ.
How do PBers rank Gove's chances of getting elected?
Boris will be crying into his cornflakes now though....
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With respect (a) it's not just banks; and (b) it's being discussed in London and contingency plans are being activated.eek said:
Remember the people discussing banks moving to Paris / Frankfurt / Dublin are those in Paris / Frankfurt / Dublin who want people to move there...Floater said:
People also appear to be forgetting employment laws in France.ManWithThePlan said:I am still tickled by the idea that London's financial sector will be shared out between Amsterdam, Paris and Frankfurt. The whole advantage of a financial cluster is that it exists in one place where all the other firms and talent is. Amsterdam is not even a second tier financial cluster. The bankers will surely love the 49% income tax rate in Paris with a wealth tax on top. And Frankfurt is one of the most boring cities in the world. People dread going on business trips there, God forbid living there. Meanwhile London will increase the two thirds of financial service exports to non-EU countries as we sign more trade deals, and we can also scrap the banker bonus cap.
I am sure dynamic businesses paying huge salaries will love that environment...........0 -
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A week after the referendum was held and there's still no news of the winner of the PB.com competition, sponsored by Wm. Hill.
I had been given to understand that the clever software employed enabled the full results to simply plop out at the touch of a button .... clearly I was wrong!0 -
Nick Boles now chairing Gove campaign, no longer supporting Boris0
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I imagine Gove asked Boris (and probably Theresa) to put immigration at the front of any EU negotiation, he got the big fat "no" so he has decided to run as the standard bearer for the right wing anti-immigration lot. If Fox bows out and backs Gove then we know it's on.Fenster said:Boles has ditched Boris and gone over to Gove.
I can only think Johnson has has a serious wobble behind the scenes.0 -
Machiavellian politics.TheScreamingEagles said:So that leaked email was accidental huh?
I think Gove stands a very good chance of winning. He understands momentum in politics, and ultimately May has never been loved.
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It's quite a complicated, not to say dangerous game, though...eek said:
I think part of the battle is to stop Boris being in the final 2...TOPPING said:
Amidst the PB Leave euphoria, I am still not sure.eek said:
Yep. My inkling is that Gove wants CoE... And May will give it to him if she wins... And you really don't want to be Cabinet member for Leave do you...kle4 said:
Not great. He's got interesting ideas, but seems divisive to me. I am surprised he'd stand, I assume this might split the Boris vote?The_Apocalypse said:Imagine if the Conservative party elect Gove as their leader. Jesus H Christ.
How do PBers rank Gove's chances of getting elected?
Boris will be crying into his cornflakes now though....
I don't like people lying to me and I know that events change so people change their minds but he looked at us and said he wouldn't.
But then, you know, I am a conservative Conservative. Not one of these mobile, going through the Parties on the whim of a bad speech or wrongly raised eyebrow, jelly Conservatives.
We need another of @AlastairMeeks's binomial trees.0 -
Ten years of political trials and tribulations condensed into one week. – Great fun ain’t itTOPPING said:What. The. Fuck. Is. Happening. To. British. Politics?
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Mr Gove could be the first PM of an independent Britain ..... and last Scot.0
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YouGov's final eve of referendum poll was actually pretty good on the referendum. It had a tied result based on those responding who said they had decided. So the survey data was good.anotherDave said:
No. This requires a gold standard effort. TNS/Opinium, PB needs you!Wulfrun_Phil said:
He polled better than Johnson in the YouGov poll if still behind May in terms of positive/negative opinion. He wasn't a named candidate in the polling having declared himself out but it implies that a head to head with May would be closer if he gets that far.PlatoSaid said:GOVE is standing!!
New YouGov please!
Where YouGov went wrong was (1) to ignore what the poll was telling them about turnout in terms of certainty to vote and to instead adjust their result based on different assumptions about turnout drawn from lessons in the general election and (2) to assume that some people who had not made their mind up and by a small balance were leaning to remain would actually vote in the same proportions as everyone else even though this would have implied a >90% turnout from their panel.
So taking YouGov's actual polling on preferences and applying what their polling was telling them about turnout would have had Leave just ahead. They must be kicking themselves for cocking it up at the final hurdle having been the company which was also showing the best polling for Leave for most of the campaign (without a turnout filter as I pointed out several times here).
So their polling was vindicated, it's just the way they chose to use it at the 11th hour which was not.
And, by the way, they have a pretty good record too in polling for Conservative and Labour Party internal elections.
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So Boris was just the useful idiot all along.
I smell Osborne.0 -
The last one wasn't exactly a success...TOPPING said:
It's quite a complicated, not to say dangerous game, though...eek said:
I think part of the battle is to stop Boris being in the final 2...TOPPING said:
Amidst the PB Leave euphoria, I am still not sure.eek said:
Yep. My inkling is that Gove wants CoE... And May will give it to him if she wins... And you really don't want to be Cabinet member for Leave do you...kle4 said:
Not great. He's got interesting ideas, but seems divisive to me. I am surprised he'd stand, I assume this might split the Boris vote?The_Apocalypse said:Imagine if the Conservative party elect Gove as their leader. Jesus H Christ.
How do PBers rank Gove's chances of getting elected?
Boris will be crying into his cornflakes now though....
I don't like people lying to me and I know that events change so people change their minds but he looked at us and said he wouldn't.
But then, you know, I am a conservative Conservative. Not one of these mobile, going through the Parties on the whim of a bad speech or wrongly raised eyebrow, jelly Conservatives.
We need another of @AlastairMeeks's binomial trees.
But if you like, I can put one together for you.0 -
Wow. Big development. Do we think Gove is standing, knowing he may not win, but to then rally around someone other than Boris later? Perhaps this is why Leadsom is standing too?0
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Gove shorter odds than Boris . It's Portillo all over again!0
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I am now not so sure.MaxPB said:
Yes, also shows that Gove doesn't trust either May or Boris to deliver immigration reform. May still has it in the bag.SouthamObserver said:Gove has just destroyed Boris, hasn't he?
Gove has the bonafides over Brexit. He chose Brexit because he believed in Brexit.
He destroys Boris on that point and obliterates May's "no comment" on the subject.
May was going to mop up Leavers who didn't like Boris. They go to Gove now. The whole texture of the contest has been changed.0 -
@DPJHodges: Boris Johnson just went from being next PM to a cautionary tale.SouthamObserver said:So Boris was just the useful idiot all along.
I smell Osborne.0 -
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I'll start.AlastairMeeks said:
The last one wasn't exactly a success...TOPPING said:
It's quite a complicated, not to say dangerous game, though...eek said:
I think part of the battle is to stop Boris being in the final 2...TOPPING said:
Amidst the PB Leave euphoria, I am still not sure.eek said:
Yep. My inkling is that Gove wants CoE... And May will give it to him if she wins... And you really don't want to be Cabinet member for Leave do you...kle4 said:
Not great. He's got interesting ideas, but seems divisive to me. I am surprised he'd stand, I assume this might split the Boris vote?The_Apocalypse said:Imagine if the Conservative party elect Gove as their leader. Jesus H Christ.
How do PBers rank Gove's chances of getting elected?
Boris will be crying into his cornflakes now though....
I don't like people lying to me and I know that events change so people change their minds but he looked at us and said he wouldn't.
But then, you know, I am a conservative Conservative. Not one of these mobile, going through the Parties on the whim of a bad speech or wrongly raised eyebrow, jelly Conservatives.
We need another of @AlastairMeeks's binomial trees.
But if you like, I can put one together for you.
If A: bonkers, if Not A: utterly mad.0 -
All of a sudden my book is looking very good on next PM
Osborne Lay 2.2 £500
Boris Lay 2.1 £950
May 11 £100
Gove 8 £50
Come on Tory MPs, shut Boris out of it for my best ever betting event!!0 -
Really good analysis. Turnout is a moveable feast and polling companies who extrapolate from thee last GE are simply fighting the last war.Wulfrun_Phil said:
YouGov's final eve of referendum poll was actually pretty good on the referendum. It had a tied result based on those responding who said they had decided. So the survey data was good.
Where YouGov went wrong was (1) to ignore what the poll was telling them about turnout in terms of certainty to vote and to instead adjust their result based on different assumptions about turnout drawn from lessons in the general election and (2) to assume that some people who had not made their mind up and by a small balance were leaning to remain would actually vote in the same proportions as everyone else even though this would have implied a >90% turnout from their panel.
So taking YouGov's actual polling on preferences and applying what their polling was telling them about turnout would have had Leave just ahead. They must be kicking themselves for cocking it up at the final hurdle having been the company which was also showing the best polling for Leave for most of the campaign (without a turnout filter as I pointed out several times here).
So their polling was vindicated, it's just the way they chose to use it at the 11th hour which was not.
And, by the way, they have a pretty good record too in polling for Conservative and Labour Party internal elections.0 -
Better than Boris, but ultimately the party elected David Cameron over Davis (basically a prior run of Theresa vs Gove). The basic instinct to win is still there and it is much, much more likely that Theresa will deliver a win in 2020 than Gove. As long as she promises to deliver the referendum result and take the UK out of the EU then she should still win. That is probably another reason why Gove is running, he may not trust the current front runners to actually serve Article 50, so this way he gets them to guarantee it or he probably would win.tyson said:
Machiavellian politics.TheScreamingEagles said:So that leaked email was accidental huh?
I think Gove stands a very good chance of winning. He understands momentum in politics, and ultimately May has never been loved.0 -
Is Gove particularly motivated by immigration? I always thought he was more a sovereignty leaver? Do you think he be willing to leave the single market to deliver on immigration?MaxPB said:
I imagine Gove asked Boris (and probably Theresa) to put immigration at the front of any EU negotiation, he got the big fat "no" so he has decided to run as the standard bearer for the right wing anti-immigration lot. If Fox bows out and backs Gove then we know it's on.Fenster said:Boles has ditched Boris and gone over to Gove.
I can only think Johnson has has a serious wobble behind the scenes.0 -
Betrayal. Double betrayal. Triple betrayal...
Just another day in British politics.0 -
Gove versus Eagle, now that would be something. Quite what, I don't know, but definitely something.JonathanD said:
It could end up like Ed Milliband standing for Labour leader just to raise his profile and then accidentally winning it.The_Apocalypse said:Imagine if the Conservative party elect Gove as their leader. Jesus H Christ.
How do PBers rank Gove's chances of getting elected?
Boris will be crying into his cornflakes now though....0 -
Yes, he said it many times. He would prefer to be out of the single market if it meant restricting immigration. Boris always used the double speak of saying we could be in the single market and reduce immigration. Gove was quite clear about leaving the single market.Paristonda said:
Is Gove particularly motivated by immigration? I always thought he was more a sovereignty leaver? Do you think he be willing to leave the single market to deliver on immigration?MaxPB said:
I imagine Gove asked Boris (and probably Theresa) to put immigration at the front of any EU negotiation, he got the big fat "no" so he has decided to run as the standard bearer for the right wing anti-immigration lot. If Fox bows out and backs Gove then we know it's on.Fenster said:Boles has ditched Boris and gone over to Gove.
I can only think Johnson has has a serious wobble behind the scenes.0 -
steve hawkes @steve_hawkes 9 mins9 minutes ago
Nicky Morgan has pulled out of race for No10 - friends say
20 retweets 7 likes
We have lost a titan.....0 -
I feel that these fast moving events will speed the demise of the print press. By the time the daily papers come out, events will have moved on so far it will seem like last week's news.SimonStClare said:
Ten years of political trials and tribulations condensed into one week. – Great fun ain’t itTOPPING said:What. The. Fuck. Is. Happening. To. British. Politics?
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I suspect Gove has had a 'steer' from Dacre and Murdoch.Paristonda said:
Is Gove particularly motivated by immigration? I always thought he was more a sovereignty leaver? Do you think he be willing to leave the single market to deliver on immigration?MaxPB said:
I imagine Gove asked Boris (and probably Theresa) to put immigration at the front of any EU negotiation, he got the big fat "no" so he has decided to run as the standard bearer for the right wing anti-immigration lot. If Fox bows out and backs Gove then we know it's on.Fenster said:Boles has ditched Boris and gone over to Gove.
I can only think Johnson has has a serious wobble behind the scenes.0 -
So Gove thrusts his trusty sword/hat? into the ring. Good for him. He may just give the two frontrunners a run for their money, and even win. 0
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I would not vote for Gove,if he becomes PM. Annoying man.Patrick said:I'm really enthused. Gove is one of the few politicians I genuinely admire.
Go MiGo!
I would also not vote for Fox,or Boris- both deeply untrustworthy.0 -
I've been ticked of by Leavers on here for daring to suggest that immigration was the reason for Leaves triumph. Apparently it was all about sovereignty, despite the campaign . So maybe not just remain in a muddle?TOPPING said:
I am certainly not in a muddle.blackburn63 said:
I meant which right wing tories are you referring to? The govt has the ability to reduce immigration, it was implicitly told to by the electorate, if it doesn't they'll be replaced.TOPPING said:
You want to restrict immigration. You say that if the government doesn't, they will "pay the consequences" which, short of armed uprising or swinging from the Cenotaph, presumably means voting them out.blackburn63 said:
Who are you referring to?TOPPING said:
If these ones, arguably the most right wing set of Conservatives in a while, don't deliver immigration restriction, who on earth are you expecting to?blackburn63 said:@ianB2
It is very simple, for years we have been unable to restrict immigration, now we can. If we don't the politicians will pay the consequences.
Its called democracy, its what we voted for.
In which case which set of politicians are you expecting to be voted in to deliver your desired restriction of immigration? Labour? UKIP? Green? SDP2?
You lot are in such a muddle its hilarious.
You, meanwhile, have not answered my question. If the forthcoming set of Conservatives don't restrict immigration, who are you expecting them to be replaced by who will restrict it?
Give me some names here, so I can get a handle on your thinking. The Moggster, John Redwood and Bill Cash at his side? Douglas Carswell and an expected other 325 UKIP MPs?
I wasn't and still am not entirely convinced of that, but, assuming that is correct for the bulk of the Leave vote and we negotiate access to the single market with freedom of movement but crucially resolve the sovereignty issue does that not mean that all ukip can campaign on is immigration?
I can see that being a step to far for a lot of voters. Or is that just wishful thinking?0 -
Boris has been utterly f**ked over....
Lol0 -
TOPPING said:
I'll start.AlastairMeeks said:
The last one wasn't exactly a success...TOPPING said:
It's quite a complicated, not to say dangerous game, though...eek said:
I think part of the battle is to stop Boris being in the final 2...TOPPING said:
Amidst the PB Leave euphoria, I am still not sure.eek said:
Yep. My inkling is that Gove wants CoE... And May will give it to him if she wins... And you really don't want to be Cabinet member for Leave do you...kle4 said:
Not great. He's got interesting ideas, but seems divisive to me. I am surprised he'd stand, I assume this might split the Boris vote?The_Apocalypse said:Imagine if the Conservative party elect Gove as their leader. Jesus H Christ.
How do PBers rank Gove's chances of getting elected?
Boris will be crying into his cornflakes now though....
I don't like people lying to me and I know that events change so people change their minds but he looked at us and said he wouldn't.
But then, you know, I am a conservative Conservative. Not one of these mobile, going through the Parties on the whim of a bad speech or wrongly raised eyebrow, jelly Conservatives.
We need another of @AlastairMeeks's binomial trees.
But if you like, I can put one together for you.
If A: bonkers, if Not A: utterly mad.
Interesting looking at Gove's YouGov page
https://yougov.co.uk/opi/browse/Michael_Gove
-46 positivity
Most loved by the hard right
Correlates most with those who like Donald Trump and Dad's Army.0 -
Surely we have just seen that for the last month, so we know already?midwinter said:
I've been ticked of by Leavers on here for daring to suggest that immigration was the reason for Leaves triumph. Apparently it was all about sovereignty, despite the campaign . So maybe not just remain in a muddle?TOPPING said:
I am certainly not in a muddle.blackburn63 said:
I meant which right wing tories are you referring to? The govt has the ability to reduce immigration, it was implicitly told to by the electorate, if it doesn't they'll be replaced.TOPPING said:
You want to restrict immigration. You say that if the government doesn't, they will "pay the consequences" which, short of armed uprising or swinging from the Cenotaph, presumably means voting them out.blackburn63 said:
Who are you referring to?TOPPING said:
If these ones, arguably the most right wing set of Conservatives in a while, don't deliver immigration restriction, who on earth are you expecting to?blackburn63 said:@ianB2
It is very simple, for years we have been unable to restrict immigration, now we can. If we don't the politicians will pay the consequences.
Its called democracy, its what we voted for.
In which case which set of politicians are you expecting to be voted in to deliver your desired restriction of immigration? Labour? UKIP? Green? SDP2?
You lot are in such a muddle its hilarious.
You, meanwhile, have not answered my question. If the forthcoming set of Conservatives don't restrict immigration, who are you expecting them to be replaced by who will restrict it?
Give me some names here, so I can get a handle on your thinking. The Moggster, John Redwood and Bill Cash at his side? Douglas Carswell and an expected other 325 UKIP MPs?
I wasn't and still am not entirely convinced of that, but, assuming that is correct for the bulk of the Leave vote and we negotiate access to the single market with freedom of movement but crucially resolve the sovereignty issue does that not mean that all ukip can campaign on is immigration?
I can see that being a step to far for a lot of voters. Or is that just wishful thinking?0 -
I think he would be far likelier to apply, surgically, the Leave manifesto and promises. He strikes me as that kind of a guy.Paristonda said:
Is Gove particularly motivated by immigration? I always thought he was more a sovereignty leaver? Do you think he be willing to leave the single market to deliver on immigration?MaxPB said:
I imagine Gove asked Boris (and probably Theresa) to put immigration at the front of any EU negotiation, he got the big fat "no" so he has decided to run as the standard bearer for the right wing anti-immigration lot. If Fox bows out and backs Gove then we know it's on.Fenster said:Boles has ditched Boris and gone over to Gove.
I can only think Johnson has has a serious wobble behind the scenes.
It is about as damning a public dismissal of one politician by another as I can remember.0 -
I am honestly worried about some hot head attacking one of the MPs who is anti Corbyn.Jonathan said:Because of Corbyn's intransigence two likely outcomes await.
A Corbyn stays
Labour goes into a general election where almost all of its candidates are questioned daily on why they think people should vote Labour if they have no confidence in their own leader.
B Corbyn goes
Momentum do not accept defeat and put up candidates against key PLP members dividing the vote.
The only way out is a tiny chance that a candidate could be found that can minimise (b) and avoid (a). But everything is saying that this will not happen.
As things stand, make no mistake, this is the end of the Labour party. It needs a miracle.0 -
Suddenly Farron would look serious.IanB2 said:
Gove versus Eagle, now that would be something. Quite what, I don't know, but definitely something.JonathanD said:
It could end up like Ed Milliband standing for Labour leader just to raise his profile and then accidentally winning it.The_Apocalypse said:Imagine if the Conservative party elect Gove as their leader. Jesus H Christ.
How do PBers rank Gove's chances of getting elected?
Boris will be crying into his cornflakes now though....0 -
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While nobody will step up for the Labour Party, everybody and their mother appears to want to stop Boris in the Tory Party.0
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Chris Grayling running Theresa May's campaign bid0
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Grayling fronts May campaign and will be the Chair0
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Well that is Boris Johnson's political career fucked then.
I wonder what he'll do. Train journeys has been cornered. Cooking....Boris in the kitchen maybe. Or......possibly Top Gear.0 -
Boris is just upset to have been played at his own game, and beaten by someone better at it!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
never trust any politician. nor any political poll.0
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Did Southam ever order that 12 gross of BETRAYAL T-shirts?0
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Irony isn't dead.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
I wouldn't go that farJonathanD said:
Suddenly Farron would look serious.IanB2 said:
Gove versus Eagle, now that would be something. Quite what, I don't know, but definitely something.JonathanD said:
It could end up like Ed Milliband standing for Labour leader just to raise his profile and then accidentally winning it.The_Apocalypse said:Imagine if the Conservative party elect Gove as their leader. Jesus H Christ.
How do PBers rank Gove's chances of getting elected?
Boris will be crying into his cornflakes now though....
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So has Gove been cooking this up with Osborne and Cameron since Monday (when he stayed behind after Cabinet for 45 minutes)?0
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This is the outline of my next thread
So Boris shafted David Cameron, and now Boris is getting shafted by Gove and a lot of Leavers. I think I might break a rib laughing0 -
@kle4 Yes, it'll be interesting to see if Gove and Boris being both in the mix splits the vote among LEAVERS.0
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WTF. I am literally away from my desk for 15mins thx to a minor domestic crisis and I come back and Gove is running.
This is getting ridiculous.0 -
I, too, am very disappointed that Michael Gove isn't standing, especially after having enjoyed a successful Leave campaign, including a comprehensive one to one win against the unpleasant Faisal Islam.MarqueeMark said:I'd love Gove to say he is standing as an interim leader until say early 2019, to oversee Brexit and no more. Meantime, a few more can get Cabinet experience and show their true worth (or otherwise) to the voters for the 2020's. I think he'd walk it then.....
I suspect the truth of the matter is that he simply didn't want it enough, or indeed at all. Generally speaking you only get one shot at the top job and he's allowed it to pass him by, despite clearly possessing the required intellect and ability .... shame.0 -
Chris Grayling very impressive here.0
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Good morning all. Wow! Leadsom and Gove throwing their hat into the ring, that's unexpected.
A few remarks:
Homosexuality was legalised in 1967, that's the thick end of half a century ago. It really is old, old news.
I always like @matt's posts; we shouldn't try and gloss over the fact that jobs will be lost directly due to Brexit. The argument has to be whether the gain is worth the pain. We're not going to 'win' an argument here. Remainers say no, Leavers say yes...ad infinitum.
What is clear is that the range and quality of any gains are going to be down to the ability of the British political establishment, supported by the Civil Service and others, to execute Brexit well. Currently I'm not at all sanguine.0 -
It will be a well deserved tragedy for Boris if he fails in hi bid to become PM. He has kept himself in the shadows for too long during this febrile week; he has hesitated to much to be convincing. He may even be pleased to have failed - if indeed he does.0
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Not too sure the May backdrop of library books is that great.0
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Leadsom, Gove, Boris/May tie, Fox.... Crabb
in that order for me. Gove is incredibly clever and on point, but has an image problem holding him back, yet he will be the more exciting option than May.0 -
Well, at least Michael Gove has answered the question I was asking just now (who is the politician who will restrict immigration if not this lot)!midwinter said:
I've been ticked of by Leavers on here for daring to suggest that immigration was the reason for Leaves triumph. Apparently it was all about sovereignty, despite the campaign . So maybe not just remain in a muddle?TOPPING said:
I am certainly not in a muddle.blackburn63 said:
I meant which right wing tories are you referring to? The govt has the ability to reduce immigration, it was implicitly told to by the electorate, if it doesn't they'll be replaced.TOPPING said:
You want to restrict immigration. You say that if the government doesn't, they will "pay the consequences" which, short of armed uprising or swinging from the Cenotaph, presumably means voting them out.blackburn63 said:
Who are you referring to?TOPPING said:
If these ones, arguably the most right wing set of Conservatives in a while, don't deliver immigration restriction, who on earth are you expecting to?blackburn63 said:@ianB2
It is very simple, for years we have been unable to restrict immigration, now we can. If we don't the politicians will pay the consequences.
Its called democracy, its what we voted for.
In which case which set of politicians are you expecting to be voted in to deliver your desired restriction of immigration? Labour? UKIP? Green? SDP2?
You lot are in such a muddle its hilarious.
You, meanwhile, have not answered my question. If the forthcoming set of Conservatives don't restrict immigration, who are you expecting them to be replaced by who will restrict it?
Give me some names here, so I can get a handle on your thinking. The Moggster, John Redwood and Bill Cash at his side? Douglas Carswell and an expected other 325 UKIP MPs?
I wasn't and still am not entirely convinced of that, but, assuming that is correct for the bulk of the Leave vote and we negotiate access to the single market with freedom of movement but crucially resolve the sovereignty issue does that not mean that all ukip can campaign on is immigration?
I can see that being a step to far for a lot of voters. Or is that just wishful thinking?
I think that the Party leader election will be a rehearsal of the broader (and much more significant) immigration debate that we would get if immigration is not addressed to the right's satisfaction.
And as to being a step too far for voters? That is the interesting point which, sadly IMO, we might have to find out.0 -
Does this really kill off Boris ?
I'm not so sure.0 -
Peter, Gove IS standing.peter_from_putney said:
I, too, am very disappointed that Michael Gove isn't standing, especially after having enjoyed a successful Leave campaign, including a comprehensive one to one win against the unpleasant Faisal Islam.MarqueeMark said:I'd love Gove to say he is standing as an interim leader until say early 2019, to oversee Brexit and no more. Meantime, a few more can get Cabinet experience and show their true worth (or otherwise) to the voters for the 2020's. I think he'd walk it then.....
I suspect the truth of the matter is that he simply didn't want it enough, or indeed at all. Generally speaking you only get one shot at the top job and he's allowed it to pass him by, despite clearly possessing the required intellect and ability .... shame.0 -
May down at 2.0
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Chris Grayling is chairing the T May campaign, real coup for the Home Secretary0
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It's AV.The_Apocalypse said:@kle4 Yes, it'll be interesting to see if Gove and Boris being both in the mix splits the vote among LEAVERS.
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Gove is very publicly voicing the doubts many Tories hold privately about Boris.Pulpstar said:Does this really kill off Boris ?
I'm not so sure.
That's not good for Boris0 -
@MartinBelam: Labour: We can't find anyone to stand to be new leader
Conservatives: We are all standing to be new leader0 -
May standing. Speaking now.0
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Time for the grown-ups to take charge of this clusterf**** of a mess.
May for Tories.
Erm, not sure for Labour, where is David?-1
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