Lol, wasn't it supposed to be the Frogs that wanted to shaft the Union by offering Scotland favourable terms to stay in?
No one wants to sour the negotiations. The French want to ensure we keep free movement and we want to keep free trade in goods and services, the deal is there to be done.
I believe the french also have a Corsican separatist movement to keep in check.
Yes but I remember reading that the hostile nations would all round on the UK and offer Scotland amazing terms to join and bring about the end of the Union.
Article 50 hasn't been triggered yet. If/when it is, then the calculus will change.
The market is beginning to get the feeling:
either, Art.50 will never be invoked,
or, an arrangement, [ EEA / EFTA / whatever ] will be cobbled which will the economics will be very close to what it is now.
So the EU = Hotel California. We can check out, but we can never leave.
Without telling the voters that at any point.
You think there won't be hell to pay for that?
No, we can leave, with a Tory soft Leaver at the helm. Or in 2020 we can have Nigel Farage ripping out the drip and the monitors and walking out the hospital, regardless of the prognosis...
It is the Leavers that are all backtracking over article 50 and actually checking out.
To me and many of the Leavers the EEA looks very much like being in the EU only without a say on decisions.
Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak 51 secs51 seconds ago
Supportive message coming from the unions, and letter from 240 Labour councillors BACKING Corbyn
I have already suggested a new name for the nascent Party. Progressive Democrats incorporating the Lib Dems. Old LD gets 200 nominations, exLab gets 450.
They automatically become HM Opposition. Win the next election on a manifesto commitment that "we will not invoke Article 50".
Ironically save the City of London.
vs. UKIP's "leave means leave"
On the electoral map, huge swathes of England and Wales would turn from red to purple.
Perhaps so, but we may also see swathes of the Tories' richest constituencies turning from blue to red - eg Labour might lose Barnsley but gain Kensington.
Hahaha. Never going to happen, Surrey will never vote for Labour they just don't care about the E.U that much, no one apart from the non voting hippy Islington types do.
Kensington wasn't in Surrey last time I checked.
The young/middle aged rich city professional demographic which makes up a large chunk of the Tory vote in central and south west London is fizzing with anger. Such seats where the Lib Dems put up a strong challenge (eg Kingston, Twickenham, perhaps even Richmond) will be very hard for the Tories to hold IMO. Battersea, Putney and Wimbledon also vulnerable if Labour put someone vaguely electable into the leadership. Long term it's hard to see even Westminster and K&C voting for a Tory party that has sold out to the loony populist right and trashed the interests of the ultra wealthy.
They really are not "fizzing with anger" the young in Islington might be but they don't vote. A split Labour party is not going to win Kensington nor is a united one. Not going to happen. Period.
Lol, wasn't it supposed to be the Frogs that wanted to shaft the Union by offering Scotland favourable terms to stay in?
No one wants to sour the negotiations. The French want to ensure we keep free movement and we want to keep free trade in goods and services, the deal is there to be done.
I believe the french also have a Corsican separatist movement to keep in check.
Yes but I remember reading that the hostile nations would all round on the UK and offer Scotland amazing terms to join and bring about the end of the Union.
Article 50 hasn't been triggered yet. If/when it is, then the calculus will change.
The market is beginning to get the feeling:
either, Art.50 will never be invoked,
or, an arrangement, [ EEA / EFTA / whatever ] will be cobbled which will the economics will be very close to what it is now.
Just want to get your opinion? Would you be happy if we just went for EEA membership no modifications? Keeping full membership of the single market and no modifications to free movement?
I'd love that. If Labour did come to its senses - not likely, I grant - it would not only salvage something from a very bad situation, but mean no Tory governments for the rest of my life :-)
The Tories I know seem to be pretty comfortable with this idea.
So what is the immediate future of the Labour Party? There is a real possibility of Corbyn getting on the ballot paper and being re-elected. At that stage 200 MPs may form a new party. And if need be I will join them.
Oh dear how sad never mind
Top heavy party, wonder how she expects it to be funded. MP salary sacrifice till GE then its fooked
This Labour leadership market could be quite horrific market for some of us, consider some or all of the following might happen to bugger up this market
1) The Labour leadership election might be in 2020
2) Most of the Parliamentary Party (and most of the contenders) might bugger off and form a new party
3) The UK might break up in the next few years
4) Tories might be led by someone who has delivered an entirely avoidable deep recession, thus making Labour nailed onto win the next general election, so Jez ain't going to give up
5) There might be a general election in a few months time
< I know this really annoys you but it is a fact. No signatory can be removed from a treaty without being in breach of the terms. If they are forced out the whole treaty ceases to exist.
Why should it annoy me? I agree. We'll still be signatories, of course. We'll still be a Contracting Party. So what? That won't make us an EFTA state for the purposes of this agreement.
I''ve no idea why you can't understand the fact the we are signatories IN OUR CAPACITY AS AN EU MEMBER STATE, and the three EFTA states named in the treaty are on the other side of the agreement. Of course, the agreement will now have to be changed whatever happens.
So how did the previous EFTA states move to the EU without renegotiation of the treaty?
Do go check but you will find that there was no renegotiation in spite of their change of status.
More importantly there was no amendment to the treaty. All amendments including reasons are listed at the start of the treaty. Each time a new member joins the EU there is an amendment. There is no amendment for countries moving from EFTA to the EU.
And the reason? Because as I have kept repeating each individual state is a contracting party and cannot be removed unless they are in breach of the treaty. Moving from one organisation to the other clearly does not constitute a breach.
Isn't it just easier to get an amicable agreement to join EFTA and stay in the EEA, rather than using legal machinations to force our membership on them? I don't see what the issue is, the EU are going to try and bounce us into the EEA solution anyway. I don't see why we should get hostile over it.
You misunderstand. That is exactly what I am saying.
It is Richard N who is saying that is not possible and that the EU members will stop it - or at least use it as an opportunity to change the Agreement. All I am doing is pointing out he is wrong and we can do exactly as you suggest.
YouGov "most British people (58%) oppose holding a second referendum. This includes not only 91% of Leave voters, but also 29% of Remain voters. 11% don't know."
I'm starting to think the brexit result has been absolutely perfect.
Retaining free trade and movement with the EU whilst regaining national sovereignty, the ability to sign free trade deals with the rest of the planet and Labour completely screwed for a generation. Oh and Scotland aren't going anywhere.
If we end up in the EEA it will have been worth it. Business will be happy, Labour voters unhappy, regaining sovereignty over our laws, no more ECJ. We can make it work.
It has been my aim for many years. It would suit me - and I think the country - perfectly.
Me too, but not quite perfectly for those who voted for lower immigration. Unless something can be cobbled together within EEA to dampen the numbers down.
YouGov "most British people (58%) oppose holding a second referendum. This includes not only 91% of Leave voters, but also 29% of Remain voters. 11% don't know."
So how did the previous EFTA states move to the EU without renegotiation of the treaty?
Do go check but you will find that there was no renegotiation in spite of their change of status.
More importantly there was no amendment to the treaty. All amendments including reasons are listed at the start of the treaty. Each time a new member joins the EU there is an amendment. There is no amendment for countries moving from EFTA to the EU.
And the reason? Because as I have kept repeating each individual state is a contracting party and cannot be removed unless they are in breach of the treaty. Moving from one organisation to the other clearly does not constitute a breach.
There's no point repeating all this, but even if you were right, my original point earlier was that the Contracting Parties can agree whatever changes they like. If they jointly decide that the UK has some special status in the agreement then they can write that in.
Not without the UK's agreement as a contracting party.
I'm starting to think the brexit result has been absolutely perfect.
Retaining free trade and movement with the EU whilst regaining national sovereignty, the ability to sign free trade deals with the rest of the planet and Labour completely screwed for a generation. Oh and Scotland aren't going anywhere.
If we end up in the EEA it will have been worth it. Business will be happy, Labour voters unhappy, regaining sovereignty over our laws, no more ECJ. We can make it work.
It has been my aim for many years. It would suit me - and I think the country - perfectly.
Me too, but not quite perfectly for those who voted for lower immigration.
Yes, although the key would seem to be whether the Tories can be united on it - can most of them accept it, even at the risk of inflaming a vote for UKIP?
YouGov "most British people (58%) oppose holding a second referendum. This includes not only 91% of Leave voters, but also 29% of Remain voters. 11% don't know."
This Labour leadership market could be quite horrific market for some of us, consider some or all of the following might happen to bugger up this market
1) The Labour leadership election might be in 2020
2) Most of the Parliamentary Party (and most of the contenders) might bugger off and form a new party
3) The UK might break up in the next few years
4) Tories might be led by someone who has delivered an entirely avoidable deep recession, thus making Labour nailed onto win the next general election, so Jez ain't going to give up
5) There might be a general election in a few months time
Could conceivably be way after 2020 even. And it may be that Piers Corbyn is a shoe-in anyway - he's not even listed by BF.
And then there's David Milliband... (my worst result)
class="Quote" rel="anotherDave">YouGov "most British people (58%) oppose holding a second referendum. This includes not only 91% of Leave voters, but also 29% of Remain voters. 11% don't know."
I'm surprised anyone would want another one outside of extreme remainers - the more interesting data is whether more people would want it in the event of Scotland formally demanding to leave, or on the outcome of any deal.
Not a great deal, it would seem, if trustworthy, although I'd think more might support a second one if there was a majorly different deal (but only if asked months from now, and things were bad) rather than voting the terms of a deal, which is pretty pointless.
Well with weak Sterling there is a lot of value in the FTSE 100 since a lot of companies in it earn in USD. If I was a US investor I'd look at the UK because you know Sterling isn't going to be this weak forever and if it does strengthen then you win doubly.
As a patriot and a proud British citizen I am extremely dismayed by the way our country has descended into complete farce. I would take May + EEA + FOM now. Corbyn, Boris and their fellow narcissists should form their own party. Those of us who care about the health of our country should form another.
@bbclaurak: Corbyn source leadership contest is 'the only way this will be settled'
I almost hope he does stick it out and win if, unlikely as it is, it provoked the party to split and see what happens - although the Tories don't look close to that and really we could do with them splitting and aproper realignment too.
As a patriot and a proud British citizen I am extremely dismayed by the way our country has descended into complete farce. I would take May + EEA + FOM now. Corbyn, Boris and their fellow narcissists should form their own party. Those of us who care about the health of our country should form another.
? The country voted Leave. Not Remain. Live with it.
A few weeks ago, I promised everyone in my non PB life that after June 24th, I would cut down on my interest in politics and focus on other things for a few months.
Mr. Alistair, brave of you. I'd say 'best of luck', but I don't want Farage to be PM.
Electorally, that becomes possible if the UK joins the EEA with freedom of movement. Both the Tories and Labour face electoral humiliation and in Labour's case, it might be electoral oblivion.
We have to accept this is a major fucking mistake. A Tory must man up and say Nah, we're not doing it, and take the electoral hit. Or offer a revote, where voters can choose the three options, FULL LEAVE, EEA, STAY
The house is catching on fire and we're squabbling in the kitchen about whose turn it is to put out the bins
It may well be simple. May and Johnson will say EEA. The new Labour leader, if there is one, might be Stay. There may be an election, but, either way, most of the access to the single market will be retained.
But we can't even accept EEA on the terms threatened by France - loss of passporting.
There is no question of accepting EEA membership on any particular terms.
If we take the EEA route it will be on the current terms including freedom of movement, passporting etc. Those terms are defined by treaty and cannot be changed for any member without being changed for all.
If that is the case, then why Leave ?
We have listed the advantages of leaving so many times before that I am not going to bother repeating them for you yet again.
One was no free movement of people.
Not for Richard. He is one of the Enlightened Ones that will happily accept the betrayal of the desires of the majority of the Leave voters (foreigners out) because he sees a more elegant solution in some supposed EEA arrangement.
Although why being vetoed by Norway is a superior state of affairs to being vetoed by France, or outvoted by France and Poland, is anyone's guess.
Because we cannot be outvoted by anyone if we are in EFTA. There is no QMV and all votes have to be unanimous.
Baring betrayal by the politicians we are now on our way out of the EU. This means that the decision on where to proceed must be made on behalf of all the electorate, not just the 23% who have said they would not want the EFTA route.
My understanding, and it has lapsed of late, is that EU laws must be accepted or rejected by the EEA before being written into the EEA agreement (or not).
What happens if Norway and the UK differ on one particular EU law or another being written into the EEA agreement?
A few weeks ago, I promised everyone in my non PB life that after June 24th, I would cut down on my interest in politics and focus on other things for a few months.
YouGov "most British people (58%) oppose holding a second referendum. This includes not only 91% of Leave voters, but also 29% of Remain voters. 11% don't know."
As I've been saying... The idea anybody will risk a second European referednum before 2100 is for the birds.
Many may want it, but the problems are twofold:
a - On what grounds (plain rerun/brand new deal to remain/on deal with FOM etc but leave) is it to be justified and what question would it be specifically?
b - Risking it (no guarantee of a win/facing deselection/government collapse)
As a patriot and a proud British citizen I am extremely dismayed by the way our country has descended into complete farce. I would take May + EEA + FOM now. Corbyn, Boris and their fellow narcissists should form their own party. Those of us who care about the health of our country should form another.
While May wouldn't have been my first choice before Brexit, it is completely acceptable to me as well. Boris will have to deal with the poisoned chalice of the Leave bullshit while she could disown it relatively easily.
A few weeks ago, I promised everyone in my non PB life that after June 24th, I would cut down on my interest in politics and focus on other things for a few months.
That's working out brilliantly so far.
I was wondering about that, you just can't resist.
As unlikely as it seems to go from 8 MPs to Downing Street this past year has seen a lot of unlikely events happen. What are the odds that the following could happen:
Corbyn (or a Corbynite like McDonnell) wins re-election Mandatory reselection is pushed on the Labour Party as the Corbynites revenge on this failed coup. Seeing the writing on the wall, and because of the failure of the SDP over a hundred Labour MPs defect to the Lib Dems, making them the second largest party and Farron is now Leader of the Opposition. The Tories fail to agree and implement a Brexit in time for the next election. Leader of the Opposition Farron leads a centrist Remain quasi-referendum campaign in the subsequent election. Leave votes split between EEA-backing Tories and End Free Movement-backing UKIP. Rump Labour fading away to obscurity. Lib Dems largest party at the election, Farron new Prime Minister.
A few weeks ago, I promised everyone in my non PB life that after June 24th, I would cut down on my interest in politics and focus on other things for a few months.
That's working out brilliantly so far.
non-PB life? What's that?...
It's awful, people don't obsess over political minutiae. *shudder*
As a patriot and a proud British citizen I am extremely dismayed by the way our country has descended into complete farce. I would take May + EEA + FOM now. Corbyn, Boris and their fellow narcissists should form their own party. Those of us who care about the health of our country should form another.
While May wouldn't have been my first choice before Brexit, it is completely acceptable to me as well. Boris will have to deal with the poisoned chalice of the Leave bullshit while she could disown it relatively easily.
You've got it in a nutshell there. If Boris were PM every PMQs would start with a question about the extra £350 million a week for the NHS.
As a patriot and a proud British citizen I am extremely dismayed by the way our country has descended into complete farce. I would take May + EEA + FOM now. Corbyn, Boris and their fellow narcissists should form their own party. Those of us who care about the health of our country should form another.
? The country voted Leave. Not Remain. Live with it.
We did vote Leave - there are many options within that label.
As a patriot and a proud British citizen I am extremely dismayed by the way our country has descended into complete farce. I would take May + EEA + FOM now. Corbyn, Boris and their fellow narcissists should form their own party. Those of us who care about the health of our country should form another.
@bbclaurak: Corbyn source leadership contest is 'the only way this will be settled'
I almost hope he does stick it out and win if, unlikely as it is, it provoked the party to split and see what happens - although the Tories don't look close to that and really we could do with them splitting and aproper realignment too.
Probably the best thing to ever happen to Labour - cutting the union link would be rather good for them I feel. Of course a splinter party would have good relations with the unions, but no longer be in their pocket. (I'm by no means suggesting that the link is all bad, but merely that its worst aspects are very bad)
I'm sort of hoping that the more fruitcake like elements of UKIP will continue in their own way, but that the rational people will come back to the mainstream parties. If on the left the fruitcake element went off with Corbyn into the sunset that'd be fine too.
In both cases the unfairly derided (by me) fruitcakers will have done the country a service in putting some elements of their views into the mainstream, but those issues won't now be the inhibitors that they've been in the past.
So well done Mr Farage for example. I'm sort of hoping that we won't hear a great deal from you again, but if we do I'm hoping that we take a hard look at whatever issues sooner and more seriously than we did with the EU.
I know I'm going to get ripped to pieces for this, but I think when this has all settled down that Farage deserves a bit of recognition in some way or other. He has done an astonishing thing, and has given voice to the concerns of many people. I don't want him anywhere near the EU-exit negotiating table though.
Mr. Moses, the mood in the PCP must be odd at that moment. They've got their own leadership election and a serious issue to address, yet their principal opposition appears to be trying to eat its own head.
As a patriot and a proud British citizen I am extremely dismayed by the way our country has descended into complete farce. I would take May + EEA + FOM now. Corbyn, Boris and their fellow narcissists should form their own party. Those of us who care about the health of our country should form another.
While May wouldn't have been my first choice before Brexit, it is completely acceptable to me as well. Boris will have to deal with the poisoned chalice of the Leave bullshit while she could disown it relatively easily.
We should negotiate for EEA+ migration changes so that the EU backs EEA as their position. If we try to start with EEA as our position we will be negotiated down from there. Then we can fall back to EEA if necessary.
As a patriot and a proud British citizen I am extremely dismayed by the way our country has descended into complete farce. I would take May + EEA + FOM now. Corbyn, Boris and their fellow narcissists should form their own party. Those of us who care about the health of our country should form another.
While May wouldn't have been my first choice before Brexit, it is completely acceptable to me as well. Boris will have to deal with the poisoned chalice of the Leave bullshit while she could disown it relatively easily.
You've got it in a nutshell there. If Boris were PM every PMQs would start with a question about the extra £350 million a week for the NHS.
And May could destroy Boris' career by handing him the keys to Number 11 so he can (fail to) deliver the Leave prospectus.
We have to accept this is a major fucking mistake. A Tory must man up and say Nah, we're not doing it, and take the electoral hit. Or offer a revote, where voters can choose the three options, FULL LEAVE, EEA, STAY
The house is catching on fire and we're squabbling in the kitchen about whose turn it is to put out the bins
It may well be simple. May and Johnson will say EEA. The new Labour leader, if there is one, might be Stay. There may be an election, but, either way, most of the access to the single market will be retained.
But we can't even accept EEA on the terms threatened by France - loss of passporting.
There is no question of accepting EEA membership on any particular terms.
If we take the EEA route it will be on the current terms including freedom of movement, passporting etc. Those terms are defined by treaty and cannot be changed for any member without being changed for all.
If that is the case, then why Leave ?
We have listed the advantages of leaving so many times before that I am not going to bother repeating them for you yet again.
One was no free movement of people.
Not for Richard. He is one of the Enlightened Ones that will happily accept the betrayal of the desires of the majority of the Leave voters (foreigners out) because he sees a more elegant solution in some supposed EEA arrangement.
Although why being vetoed by Norway is a superior state of affairs to being vetoed by France, or outvoted by France and Poland, is anyone's guess.
Because we cannot be outvoted by anyone if we are in EFTA. There is no QMV and all votes have to be unanimous.
Baring betrayal by the politicians we are now on our way out of the EU. This means that the decision on where to proceed must be made on behalf of all the electorate, not just the 23% who have said they would not want the EFTA route.
My understanding, and it has lapsed of late, is that EU laws must be accepted or rejected by the EEA before being written into the EEA agreement (or not).
What happens if Norway and the UK differ on one particular EU law or another being written into the EEA agreement?
If anyone does not accept it then it is vetoed.
Norway has recently done this with proposals to include oil and gas regulation in the EEA Agreement.
Mr. Rose, Labour simply needs to augment its message distribution mechanisms and enhance internal party morale via a graduated process of reconciliation and mutual acceptance.
Mr. Rose, Labour simply needs to augment its message distribution mechanisms and enhance internal party morale via a graduated process of reconciliation and mutual acceptance.
Total matched so far on the various next party leader markets
Next Con Leader: £629,963
Next Lab Leader: £94,100
Next Lib Dem Leader: £33 (thirty-three pounds)
Why would anyone bet on next Lib Dem leader ? Tim is going nowhere and he faces no challengers.
You'd think these were ideal circumstances for a Lib Dem fightback, if they don't start polling in the double digits soon he might face a leadership challenge.
Tim Farron is doing a splendid job as Lib Dem Leader and does not justify a no confidence vote. 2016 election results Wales – Lost 4 and down to 1 seat, overtaken by UKIP London Assembly lost 1 and down to 1 seat, overtaken by Greens and UKIP Scotland, held at 5 seats but overtaken by Greens
As a patriot and a proud British citizen I am extremely dismayed by the way our country has descended into complete farce. I would take May + EEA + FOM now. Corbyn, Boris and their fellow narcissists should form their own party. Those of us who care about the health of our country should form another.
As a patriot and a proud British citizen I am extremely dismayed by the way our country has descended into complete farce. I would take May + EEA + FOM now. Corbyn, Boris and their fellow narcissists should form their own party. Those of us who care about the health of our country should form another.
While May wouldn't have been my first choice before Brexit, it is completely acceptable to me as well. Boris will have to deal with the poisoned chalice of the Leave bullshit while she could disown it relatively easily.
You've got it in a nutshell there. If Boris were PM every PMQs would start with a question about the extra £350 million a week for the NHS.
And May could destroy Boris' career by handing him the keys to Number 11 so he can (fail to) deliver the Leave prospectus.
I think what would be funny would be her offering him one of the following: Culture Sec, Overseas Development or Northern Ireland ...
As a patriot and a proud British citizen I am extremely dismayed by the way our country has descended into complete farce. I would take May + EEA + FOM now. Corbyn, Boris and their fellow narcissists should form their own party. Those of us who care about the health of our country should form another.
While May wouldn't have been my first choice before Brexit, it is completely acceptable to me as well. Boris will have to deal with the poisoned chalice of the Leave bullshit while she could disown it relatively easily.
We should negotiate for EEA+ migration changes so that the EU backs EEA as their position. If we try to start with EEA as our position we will be negotiated down from there. Then we can fall back to EEA if necessary.
We can try but we'll never get it without giving up a big prize like the single market for services (including the financial passport).
A few weeks ago, I promised everyone in my non PB life that after June 24th, I would cut down on my interest in politics and focus on other things for a few months.
That's working out brilliantly so far.
In contrast Mrs JackW has allowed me greater access to the site as she reflected that she hadn't see me laugh so much in weeks subsequent to the events of Friday morning.
Mr. Freggles, utilisation of neoclassical endogenous growth theory will improve the Labour Party's broad economic profile whilst streamlining its communication methodology.
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor 59s60 seconds ago Angela Eagle will NOT challenge Jeremy Corbyn. She will only stand when/if there is a contest. "It's a Mexican stand-off", says senior MP.
As a patriot and a proud British citizen I am extremely dismayed by the way our country has descended into complete farce. I would take May + EEA + FOM now. Corbyn, Boris and their fellow narcissists should form their own party. Those of us who care about the health of our country should form another.
While May wouldn't have been my first choice before Brexit, it is completely acceptable to me as well. Boris will have to deal with the poisoned chalice of the Leave bullshit while she could disown it relatively easily.
You've got it in a nutshell there. If Boris were PM every PMQs would start with a question about the extra £350 million a week for the NHS.
Well if the government backs EEA membership you might get a good opportunity to do so.
That is my presumption. I'm expecting a "Great Betrayal " narrative before the next election for UKIP. That would offer far vakue on the lay then. A snap General Election will mess me up think.
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor 59s60 seconds ago Angela Eagle will NOT challenge Jeremy Corbyn. She will only stand when/if there is a contest. "It's a Mexican stand-off", says senior MP.
Who's got the stomach for the fight? Come on stalking horses, this is your moment in history.
A few weeks ago, I promised everyone in my non PB life that after June 24th, I would cut down on my interest in politics and focus on other things for a few months.
As a patriot and a proud British citizen I am extremely dismayed by the way our country has descended into complete farce. I would take May + EEA + FOM now. Corbyn, Boris and their fellow narcissists should form their own party. Those of us who care about the health of our country should form another.
I think Sarah Smith's summary on the BBC News pretty much gets the Scottish picture right (and she is a strong anti-SNP advocate).
Either Nicola gets a deal and keeps Scotland in the UK while the rest of the UK leaves and comes back a hero. Or she can't get agreement on a deal and has an overwhelming mandate for a second referendum.
It's win/win.
Spain and France's statements today (from their doomed and soon to be replaced leaders) only hasten the time scale on a second referendum.
As a patriot and a proud British citizen I am extremely dismayed by the way our country has descended into complete farce. I would take May + EEA + FOM now. Corbyn, Boris and their fellow narcissists should form their own party. Those of us who care about the health of our country should form another.
While May wouldn't have been my first choice before Brexit, it is completely acceptable to me as well. Boris will have to deal with the poisoned chalice of the Leave bullshit while she could disown it relatively easily.
You've got it in a nutshell there. If Boris were PM every PMQs would start with a question about the extra £350 million a week for the NHS.
Simple solution: Give it to the NHS.
Can't do that while maintaining EU subsidies and spending programmes in the UK. It was bullshit then and bullshit now. If they had stuck with £100m extra for the NHS it may have been deliverable. £350m per week is not.
In his weekly Daily Telegraph column, Johnson appeared to revive his support for a second referendum on Britain’s relationship with the EU even if the UK voted to leave.
The suggestion by the London mayor shows the influence of Dominic Cummings, the Vote Leave campaign director and former special adviser to Michael Gove, who has suggested that Cameron should use a leave vote to demand better terms from the EU.
Bundestag seems to be going ballistic about the trade deal between Canada and the EU.
Junker has told German Parliament it has nothing to do with them and is an EU matter so butt out. Germans not taking well to being slapped down and heavily criticising Junker
A few weeks ago, I promised everyone in my non PB life that after June 24th, I would cut down on my interest in politics and focus on other things for a few months.
That's working out brilliantly so far.
In contrast Mrs JackW has allowed me greater access to the site as she reflected that she hadn't see me laugh so much in weeks subsequent to the events of Friday morning.
I'm sure at least 1 in 10 of those laughs was intended!
Comments
To me and many of the Leavers the EEA looks very much like being in the EU only without a say on decisions.
I cannot see the Faragists happy with that.
1) The Labour leadership election might be in 2020
2) Most of the Parliamentary Party (and most of the contenders) might bugger off and form a new party
3) The UK might break up in the next few years
4) Tories might be led by someone who has delivered an entirely avoidable deep recession, thus making Labour nailed onto win the next general election, so Jez ain't going to give up
5) There might be a general election in a few months time
It is Richard N who is saying that is not possible and that the EU members will stop it - or at least use it as an opportunity to change the Agreement. All I am doing is pointing out he is wrong and we can do exactly as you suggest.
Deputy leader of Labour party Tom Watson won't challenge Jeremy Corbyn's leadership but expects leadership election http://bbc.in/294GtJF
I think there is value at ~ 25/1 on Watson now.
I think there is more than a 4% chance Corbyn stands and wins the election, then all bets are off.
I'm sure Corbyn could give him a few tips.
"most British people (58%) oppose holding a second referendum. This includes not only 91% of Leave voters, but also 29% of Remain voters. 11% don't know."
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/06/29/little-support-second-referendum/
I think NP is wrong, btw. Watson could not rationally or honourably stand without first resigning...
Edit - This explains it, from the Beeb
The deputy leader of the Labour Party, Tom Watson, has told the BBC that he will not challenge Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership of the Labour Party.
However he said that he's been trying to negotiate Jeremy Corbyn's departure.
Mr Watson echoed the words of the Scottish Labour leader, Kezia Dugdale, and said that Mr Corbyn can't lead the party like this.
He said he expects there to be a leadership election. And he said the party is facing an existential crisis and is in peril.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36660133
Surely emergency tax give away budget required
And then there's David Milliband... (my worst result)
Arguable it's been there since 18th September 2014.
I was more surprised to see him go Remain after his consultation exercise with his constituents was solidly for Leave...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w729u8mp_mQ
Not a great deal, it would seem, if trustworthy, although I'd think more might support a second one if there was a majorly different deal (but only if asked months from now, and things were bad) rather than voting the terms of a deal, which is pretty pointless.
Oh you were channelling Corbyn to the rebels
The country voted Leave. Not Remain. Live with it.
That's working out brilliantly so far.
What happens if Norway and the UK differ on one particular EU law or another being written into the EEA agreement?
a - On what grounds (plain rerun/brand new deal to remain/on deal with FOM etc but leave) is it to be justified and what question would it be specifically?
b - Risking it (no guarantee of a win/facing deselection/government collapse)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZifWqG2413U
Repeal The Fixed Term Parliament Act, The Tories possess a majority to do so.
The FTPA is normally not going to be a problem.
As unlikely as it seems to go from 8 MPs to Downing Street this past year has seen a lot of unlikely events happen. What are the odds that the following could happen:
Corbyn (or a Corbynite like McDonnell) wins re-election
Mandatory reselection is pushed on the Labour Party as the Corbynites revenge on this failed coup.
Seeing the writing on the wall, and because of the failure of the SDP over a hundred Labour MPs defect to the Lib Dems, making them the second largest party and Farron is now Leader of the Opposition.
The Tories fail to agree and implement a Brexit in time for the next election.
Leader of the Opposition Farron leads a centrist Remain quasi-referendum campaign in the subsequent election.
Leave votes split between EEA-backing Tories and End Free Movement-backing UKIP. Rump Labour fading away to obscurity.
Lib Dems largest party at the election, Farron new Prime Minister.
Let's have a comradely debate about Labour leadership because at the moment the Tory party is "tearing itself apart"
HahahahahahaHahahahahahaHahahahahahaHahahahahahaHahahahahaha
HahahahahahaHahahahahaha
Oh my aching sides stop please stop it !!
Hahahahahaha
I'm sort of hoping that the more fruitcake like elements of UKIP will continue in their own way, but that the rational people will come back to the mainstream parties. If on the left the fruitcake element went off with Corbyn into the sunset that'd be fine too.
In both cases the unfairly derided (by me) fruitcakers will have done the country a service in putting some elements of their views into the mainstream, but those issues won't now be the inhibitors that they've been in the past.
So well done Mr Farage for example. I'm sort of hoping that we won't hear a great deal from you again, but if we do I'm hoping that we take a hard look at whatever issues sooner and more seriously than we did with the EU.
I know I'm going to get ripped to pieces for this, but I think when this has all settled down that Farage deserves a bit of recognition in some way or other. He has done an astonishing thing, and has given voice to the concerns of many people. I don't want him anywhere near the EU-exit negotiating table though.
Norway has recently done this with proposals to include oil and gas regulation in the EEA Agreement.
2016 election results
Wales – Lost 4 and down to 1 seat, overtaken by UKIP
London Assembly lost 1 and down to 1 seat, overtaken by Greens and UKIP
Scotland, held at 5 seats but overtaken by Greens
Nippy Nicky given the brush off by Spain.
(PM): France comfirms that the UK Border Agreement will not he cancelled.
Kevin Schofield @PolhomeEditor 59s60 seconds ago
Angela Eagle will NOT challenge Jeremy Corbyn. She will only stand when/if there is a contest. "It's a Mexican stand-off", says senior MP.
https://twitter.com/PolhomeEditor/status/748204263340412928
Either Nicola gets a deal and keeps Scotland in the UK while the rest of the UK leaves and comes back a hero. Or she can't get agreement on a deal and has an overwhelming mandate for a second referendum.
It's win/win.
Spain and France's statements today (from their doomed and soon to be replaced leaders) only hasten the time scale on a second referendum.
In his weekly Daily Telegraph column, Johnson appeared to revive his support for a second referendum on Britain’s relationship with the EU even if the UK voted to leave.
The suggestion by the London mayor shows the influence of Dominic Cummings, the Vote Leave campaign director and former special adviser to Michael Gove, who has suggested that Cameron should use a leave vote to demand better terms from the EU.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/22/david-cameron-ridicules-boris-johnsons-second-referendum-idea
Junker has told German Parliament it has nothing to do with them and is an EU matter so butt out. Germans not taking well to being slapped down and heavily criticising Junker
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/europaeische-union/reaktion-auf-ceta-der-unglaublich-toerichte-juncker-14315300.html
http://news.sky.com/story/1719317/tom-watson-will-not-challenge-corbyn-sources