Would you point out the donate button please - I have a contribution to make.
It was a VERY profitable night.
I'd love to know who was still laying Leave after midnight.
And a big thanks to AndyJS and his spreadsheet - worth more than all the 'experts' put together.
Andy's spreadsheet was indispensable. It was amazing how the odds on Leave remained so high so long. It was like May 2015 again. I piled everything on Leave after Sunderland and made the biggest gains I've ever made on political betting. It much more than offsets the poorer Euro exchange rate I'll get for my holidays!
My share portfolio has done OK as well as I have significant holdings in Astrazeneca and GSK which are $ denominated and actually went up yesterday. So personally I've done well out of this and I'm well insulated from the damage that is coming.
But I really grieve for the losers - particularly the young, whose futures have been blighted by the elderly and the ignorant.
Yes, I absolutely should of said that. AndyJS added more illumination to the event than BBC and Sky put together.
@AndyJS mentioned that he'd knocked up his spreadsheet for his own interest and didn't expect it to be useful on this scale - he's shown once again how much more talented he is than sackfuls of *experts*.
We have the Leave vote now and we need to move forwards to protect our economic interests and fix immigration over the long term within the EEA/EFTA with the Norwegians and Swiss involved as well. We won't solve the issue of immigration over night, anyone who believes that needs their head checked.
I want a GE with "Free Movement of People" on the side of the battle bus before any PM signs any such deal
What about Wollaston? She was sympathetic to Brexit but changed her mind because the campaign was so fraudulent. I doubt she'd win but she could shake things up by standing as an outside candidate.
Wollaston has more chance of going for the Labour Leadership.
I'm really hoping this woman crosses the floor. We'll take Gisela Stuart and Kate Hoey instead.
No chance at all of Hoey or Stuart joining the Conservatives.
We have the Leave vote now and we need to move forwards to protect our economic interests and fix immigration over the long term within the EEA/EFTA with the Norwegians and Swiss involved as well. We won't solve the issue of immigration over night, anyone who believes that needs their head checked.
I want a GE with "Free Movement of People" on the side of the battle bus before any PM signs any such deal
Somehow your post brought to mind an image of a toddler throwing a screaming fit in a grocery store.
The London based media really need to stop talking to themselves. They could try pitching their tents, not on College Green, but "up north." Like for instance, Rochdale, Bury, Blackburn, Bolton, or Wigan, which Lisa Nandy reported early on that it just wasn't worth canvassing there, as it was almost total "Leave."
Brilliant article in the Daily Mail by Richard Littlejohn - "The Secret People of England." I suggest the arrogant "Remainers" in that far distant land called London read it, then they might learn something about this country that they appear to know so little of.
The London based media really need to stop talking to themselves. They could try pitching their tents, not on College Green, but "up north." Like for instance, Rochdale, Bury, Blackburn, Bolton, or Wigan, which Lisa Nandy reported early on that it just wasn't worth canvassing there, as it was almost total "Leave."
Brilliant article in the Daily Mail by Richard Littlejohn - "The Secret People of England." I suggest the arrogant "Remainers" in that far distant land called London read it, then they might learn something about this country that they appear to know so little of.
John Harris in the Guardian is from the other side of the political spectrum has been very good on this.
Forgive me for this rant but... Is it just me or... are we in the middle of a coordinated campaign to reverse the result of the referendum? After long consideration I voted Leave having looked at both sides. I wasn't a committed Leaver. I wasn't fond of the EU for the reasons everyone seems to have forgotten, but I wanted to weigh up both sides. I expected a short term shock if we left. But this? I didn't expect an outright campaign to deny democracy. There aren't two sides to the debate any more. There is just one. Everywhere I look, on every media platform, from every politician, expert and pundit I am ALLOWED to see or hear, Im inundated with a relentless barrage of 'we have denied Paradise to our children and condemned them to an inevitable life of penury and fascism'. But its not too late! Maybe a General election can save us! Or individual cities can declare UDI! We can still turn back to the promised land! Suddenly the EU isn't a sclerotic, undemocratic, corrupt megalith, its Heaven on Earth and We Turned our Backs On It. Life in Europe is as close to perfection as we poor mortals can attain (and we should really ignore its teensy little flaws). As a result of our bigoted madness, the world is ending. Nothing will ever be good again. The sun will never shine. We will all starve in Little England (little Scotland is fine of course because its allowed to be proud of its identity). And thats barely hyperbole-- look on social media. The shaming and bullying of people who voted Leave, the way they're being paraded on the media as fools who didn't know what they were doing, or if they insist they did, they can only be racists, morons and/or senile. Suddenly 'the 48%' are victims of these selfish old bigots and of course far more important than the majority. Though if Leave had hit no more than 48% they'd have been told to shut up and accept democracy. I understand that many people felt safer in the Eu, that leaving is a risk. But then so is staying to Leave voters. I wonder if this is what happened to the French and the Irish when they dared to vote wrongly before being led to safety. If their political and media establishments browbeat them into submission. We said the Uk would never allow that; we respect democracy too much. Really? The whipping up of mass hysteria, the deliberate, gleeful talking down of the UKs prospects, the attempt to make existence after exit seem all but impossible, like a return to the Dark Ages, the hints that since the vote was Wrong we can reset it ... Is this is why no province dares leave the empire? Thank you for indulging me. Better out than in. In every sense.
Top post. You are dead right. Not only have we had a genuine revolution in this country - we may have started some in other countries too. A historically great outcome. I have never been so proud to be British or to have done my bit.
@faisalislam: So Day 2: diplomatic crisis as EU big 6 demand A50 invoked next week. Constitutional crisis as Scots says will talk directly with EU to stay
What's the easiest, cheapest way to mitigate a Sterling crash next week?
I have no idea. Things have been much less bad than predicted, FTSE is marginally up over the week, the £ bounced back but some of that would have been BoE support.
If I had substantial savings, I'd stick them in Bitcoins for a week and see where we are then.
It is notoriously hard to predict short-run moves in the market; if it were not so, it would be easy money. Nevertheless my expectation is that after a weekend of reflection there'll be more significant falls at some stage next week. Even in the "Brexit will turn out great" scenario there is a huge amount of uncertainty, which is the one thing business and finance hates the most.
In terms of our prospects the current gyrations of the markets aren't the central issue. What will matter is whether or not we get slowly drawn into a viscious circle of disinvestment->unemployment->increasing debt->less spending, or lower pound->more inflation->rising interest rates->less spending etc. It will be months before we can even start to guess.
Ah, yes, like we successfully held them to ransom over Juncker's appointment.
What some Brexit celebrants don't get is that the EU has just had it with Britain. We've got to the stage of awkward marriages where one partner just wants the other to shut up and push off. "You want to go? Have a nice life, shut the door behind you. You demand concessions before you leave? Why?"
They will act in their own interests, as we will in ours, as far as each of us can. No special favours. That's absolutely fair enough, indeed that's the whole idea of this Brexit malarkey. I don't know why some Leavers are incapable of following their own logic.
In practice, that means a trade deal in manufactured goods, and significant damage to the City and other services industries. That's what the public voted for, in full knowledge of the facts.
How would someone describe the average Tory party member? This is serious I don't actually know any. Wealthy? Retired colonel? Hang 'em and flog 'em? Christian?
Small "c" conservative working-class like me.
And former Labour voters like me. Female, 40s and lower middle class.
I would have thought quite a few farmers are tory party members.
Forgive me for this rant but... Is it just me or... are we in the middle of a coordinated campaign to reverse the result of the referendum? After long consideration I voted Leave having looked at both sides. I wasn't a committed Leaver. I wasn't fond of the EU for the reasons everyone seems to have forgotten, but I wanted to weigh up both sides. I expected a short term shock if we left. But this? I didn't expect an outright campaign to deny democracy. There aren't two sides to the debate any more. There is just one. Everywhere I look, on every media platform, from every politician, expert and pundit I am ALLOWED to see or hear, Im inundated with a relentless barrage of 'we have denied Paradise to our children and condemned them to an inevitable life of penury and fascism'. But its not too late! Maybe a General election can save us! Or individual cities can declare UDI! We can still turn back to the promised land! Suddenly the EU isn't a sclerotic, undemocratic, corrupt megalith, its Heaven on Earth and We Turned our Backs On It. Life in Europe is as close to perfection as we poor mortals can attain (and we should really ignore its teensy little flaws). As a result of our bigoted madness, the world is ending. Nothing will ever be good again. The sun will never shine. We will all starve in Little England (little Scotland is fine of course because its allowed to be proud of its identity). And thats barely hyperbole-- look on social media. The shaming and bullying of people who voted Leave, the way they're being paraded on the media as fools who didn't know what they were doing, or if they insist they did, they can only be racists, morons and/or senile. Suddenly 'the 48%' are victims of these selfish old bigots and of course far more important than the majority. Though if Leave had hit no more than 48% they'd have been told to shut up and accept democracy. I understand that many people felt safer in the Eu, that leaving is a risk. But then so is staying to Leave voters. I wonder if this is what happened to the French and the Irish when they dared to vote wrongly before being led to safety. If their political and media establishments browbeat them into submission. We said the Uk would never allow that; we respect democracy too much. Really? The whipping up of mass hysteria, the deliberate, gleeful talking down of the UKs prospects, the attempt to make existence after exit seem all but impossible, like a return to the Dark Ages, the hints that since the vote was Wrong we can reset it ... Is this is why no province dares leave the empire? Thank you for indulging me. Better out than in. In every sense.
Moan, moan, moan. The silver lining of losing is that the winners have to man up and own the sh*tshow.
The true answer (so the one you won't get from any politician) is that no-one knows. The economics need unraveled and it is not always clear how that will happen.
What we know it isn't, is the £15bn nonsense figure from the likes of Kevin Hague which consider that all costs currently borne by Scotland would exist for an independent Scotland. It would also matter what government Scotland voted for.
The reality is that it would likely be between £4bn and £10bn. The EU cap of 3.5% would require a max deficit of roughly £9bn so it is both achievable for Scotland and would not require tax rises or spending cuts.
All these figures are with current negligible oil revenues.
Absolute tosh. The GERS deficit was 9% of GDP. The EU acceptable limit is irrelevant to a new country with no credit history. Who is going to lend us the money and at what rate?
The cuts would be on a scale that is literally unimaginable in a developed country. As would the unemployment. It is beyond stupid, even SNP stupid.
Personally if we were to end up in a partner like deal with the EU, separate from it but facing some costs in exchange for some goodies, I could be happy with that, depending on the details, and Boris and co too no doubt.
But any deal which doesn't massively reduce immigration would surely face difficulty with the public (and would risk being rejected if it did get put to the public)?
One quick one would be we pay them a net contribution of say £4 billion and we get free trade, no unlimited migration, no ECJ etc.
Exactly.
Notice how our guys are relaxed at home, theirs are bouncing up and down in brussels demanding we send the article 50 letter.
Our stock market is up on the week, theirs have crashed.
F*** them. Sit on the article 50 letter, dither and dather, let their ecomomy go to pot, let them feel the pain greece has felt and we felt in the ERM.
Let the PIGS crises worsen and then let them stare down the barrel of doom.
Then send the letter, tell them our terms, tell them they can accept them and have £4 billion a year market access payment or we can let jt drag on for months.
They will sign.
There is so much that's sad and depressing about that post that I don't know where to start. Is this really the country that I live in? One where people are happy for millions to suffer across a continent so the UK can get a slightly better deal, and fewer people who "don't speak English proper, like".
If that's in any way representative of Britain - and thankfully I don't think it is - then Europe are well shot of us.
Also very naïve. I somehow doubt the silence from the leading leavers this weekend reflects the fact that they are "relaxed at home" watching Switzerland v Poland. I expect they have the landline off the hook and are very busy on their mobiles trying to work out what to do.
edit/ Farage excepted, of course... he alone is free of the consequences, at least for a while.
Yes, they keep updating the number of people who've signed the petition for a re-run on their 'live news' page. This is cruel to those people who don't realise that it will have zero effect.
BTW, are Brexiteers who advocating holding them to ransom suggesting that will somehow get us a better deal?
The EU has held other countries to ransom plenty of times, we should have no hesitation about doing the same to them.
Ah, yes, like we successfully held them to ransom over Juncker's appointment.
What some Brexit celebrants don't get is that the EU has just had it with Britain. We've got to the stage of awkward marriages where one partner just wants the other to shut up and push off. "You want to go? Have a nice life, shut the door behind you. You demand concessions before you leave? Why?"
Are you a divorce lawyer? In any divorce the spouse can make demands like alimony.
Brexit looks like a celebrity divorce, thus there will be blackmails, hostages, twists and turns.
Twitter spat where you want both posters to be humiliated...tricky.
Alastair Campbell @campbellclaret · 3m3 minutes ago @LouiseMensch there are bigger Qs for you. Like how to deliver on the lies you told to win. or having helped fuck UK assume U now back in US
Forgive me for this rant but... Is it just me or... are we in the middle of a coordinated campaign to reverse the result of the referendum? After long consideration I voted Leave having looked at both sides. I wasn't a committed Leaver. I wasn't fond of the EU for the reasons everyone seems to have forgotten, but I wanted to weigh up both sides. I expected a short term shock if we left. But this? I didn't expect an outright campaign to deny democracy. There aren't two sides to the debate any more. There is just one. Everywhere I look, on every media platform, from every politician, expert and pundit I am ALLOWED to see or hear, Im inundated with a relentless barrage of 'we have denied Paradise to our children and condemned them to an inevitable life of penury and fascism'. But its not too late! Maybe a General election can save us! Or individual cities can declare UDI! We can still turn back to the promised land! Suddenly the EU isn't a sclerotic, undemocratic, corrupt megalith, its Heaven on Earth and We Turned our Backs On It. Life in Europe is as close to perfection as we poor mortals can attain (and we should really ignore its teensy little flaws). As a result of our bigoted madness, the world is ending. Nothing will ever be good again. The sun will never shine. We will all starve in Little England (little Scotland is fine of course because its allowed to be proud of its identity). And thats barely hyperbole-- look on social media. The shaming and bullying of people who voted Leave, the way they're being paraded on the media as fools who didn't know what they were doing, or if they insist they did, they can only be racists, morons and/or senile. Suddenly 'the 48%' are victims of these selfish old bigots and of course far more important than the majority. Though if Leave had hit no more than 48% they'd have been told to shut up and accept democracy. I understand that many people felt safer in the Eu, that leaving is a risk. But then so is staying to Leave voters. I wonder if this is what happened to the French and the Irish when they dared to vote wrongly before being led to safety. If their political and media establishments browbeat them into submission. We said the Uk would never allow that; we respect democracy too much. Really? The whipping up of mass hysteria, the deliberate, gleeful talking down of the UKs prospects, the attempt to make existence after exit seem all but impossible, like a return to the Dark Ages, the hints that since the vote was Wrong we can reset it ... Is this is why no province dares leave the empire? Thank you for indulging me. Better out than in. In every sense.
Q. Will Dmitri Payet be Euro 2016's Player of the Tournament?
A. Probably, should favourites France defeat England on Monday and then progress to the semi finals.
He has already demonstrated wonderful skills in the Group games and more of the same should guarantee the award for this West Ham star, who is probably the most naturally gifted taker of free kicks in the world today. For those unfamiliar, take a look:
BTW, are Brexiteers who advocating holding them to ransom suggesting that will somehow get us a better deal?
The EU has held other countries to ransom plenty of times, we should have no hesitation about doing the same to them.
Ah, yes, like we successfully held them to ransom over Juncker's appointment.
What some Brexit celebrants don't get is that the EU has just had it with Britain. We've got to the stage of awkward marriages where one partner just wants the other to shut up and push off. "You want to go? Have a nice life, shut the door behind you. You demand concessions before you leave? Why?"
The reverse is true. Polls showed that Europeans ( real people not Eurocrats) were desperate for Britain to stay. Who cares what your bureaucract buddies on the Brussels gravy train think ?
The EU can demand what it likes , but it is clearly laid down that it is for the departing state to activate Article 50. At the end of the day the UK Government is not even constitutionally bound to honour the Referendum result even though politically it would be very difficult to do otherwise.
It is equally clear that no state can hold the entire EU hostage by threatening to secede without actually triggering it.
If we faff about too long they might just declare us in breach of existing treaties and kick anyway
Lol. Fat chance. Using what legal mechanism, pray?
Forgive me for this rant but... Is it just me or... are we in the middle of a coordinated campaign to reverse the result of the referendum?
Top post. You are dead right. Not only have we had a genuine revolution in this country - we may have started some in other countries too. A historically great outcome. I have never been so proud to be British or to have done my bit.
Exactly how I feel. I'm (in a VERY minor way) proud that I stated my views clearly and politely to my friends (overwhelmingly Remain) and the world didn't cave in.
All this social media/indyref2 fuss - the metro elite got its arse handed to it. The metro elite doesn't like it.
Twitter spat where you want both posters to be humiliated...tricky.
Alastair Campbell @campbellclaret · 3m3 minutes ago @LouiseMensch there are bigger Qs for you. Like how to deliver on the lies you told to win. or having helped fuck UK assume U now back in US
Campbell taking the moral high ground on honesty...whatever next....in reality he is in part responsible for this result. In Labour heartland came out in droves to give people like him the two fingers.
The first opinion polls (yes, I know!) after the referendum are going to be fascinating. The Conservatives are probably going to have lost a lot of support from horrified Remainers. Will they in compensation - or more than compensation - gain support from delighted non-Tory Leavers? Will UKIP's support go up or down?
The London based media really need to stop talking to themselves. They could try pitching their tents, not on College Green, but "up north." Like for instance, Rochdale, Bury, Blackburn, Bolton, or Wigan, which Lisa Nandy reported early on that it just wasn't worth canvassing there, as it was almost total "Leave."
Brilliant article in the Daily Mail by Richard Littlejohn - "The Secret People of England." I suggest the arrogant "Remainers" in that far distant land called London read it, then they might learn something about this country that they appear to know so little of.
For months on here I predicted it would be Labour voters who won it for Leave, 2 or 3 posters shouted me down quite rudely. We all gravitate to where we're comfortable, the metrosexual London types simply can't conceive of the way working class people in towns and cities think.
This site is a perfect example, thread header after thread header patronisingly telling Leave what they should do, even now the same people seemingly refuse to accept what's happened.
Regarding Northern Ireland: the Republic of Ireland grants citizenship to people born in Ireland on the same basis regardless of which side of the border they were born on. So following a Brexit almost everyone in NI would remain entitled to an EU passport. Gibraltarians with Irish connections should bear that in mind.
In Scotland there will be trouble. I am going to point out to my neighbour who voted No in the indyref and Leave in the EUref that an independent Scotland that is in the EU when rUK is outside it would be likely to be a magnet for large numbers of East European immigrants.
If London goes independent, anyone who lives in Britain outside of London should get their bug-out bag, water purifying tablets, wind-up radio, big bags of lentils and brown rice etc.
For all the talk about scotland, 1.6 million voted YES and 1.6 million voted to Remain. The SNP cannot be sure they will get many extra votes from this.
The EU elite is right now suffering a deep malaise as they are in shocked anger.
No, this is projection from how English people feel about the English referendum. The EU want the UK to leave. It is pretty clear what they think: The UK wanted to leave and moans that you think the EU is a Nazi prison so why don't you leave?
Be of good cheer, you have to remember that the losers are hurting inside (still at the anger and denial stage) and lashing out indiscriminately, but impotently.
Mr Meeks and Mr P,
The nation has decided. You won't take advice from a Leaver - being therefore old, racist and thick, but as a famous Persian once said...
"The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.”
BTW, are Brexiteers who advocating holding them to ransom suggesting that will somehow get us a better deal?
The EU has held other countries to ransom plenty of times, we should have no hesitation about doing the same to them.
Ah, yes, like we successfully held them to ransom over Juncker's appointment.
What some Brexit celebrants don't get is that the EU has just had it with Britain. We've got to the stage of awkward marriages where one partner just wants the other to shut up and push off. "You want to go? Have a nice life, shut the door behind you. You demand concessions before you leave? Why?"
Come off it Nick. Every EU country has always acted in their perceived best interests and tried to fight their corner which is why all your talk of an EU acting as some sort of benevolent debating society has always been so much rubbish. The states and the EU as a whole will continue to act exactly as they have always done to get what they want and if that means holding their noses and doing a deal with the perfidious Albion then that is exactly what they will do.
Moan, moan, moan. The silver lining of losing is that the winners have to man up and own the sh*tshow.
Really? On day 2? The point is that the 'winners' have no voice. The 'losers' own every platform and they are determined that they're going to do as much damage as they can. Things are shaky enough because of the decision to leave. Thats inevitable. But the remain side are doing all they can to make it worse, to talk everything down as far as humanly possible. To make it seem so bad that the decision is reversed. And you really cant deny that can you?
BTW, are Brexiteers who advocating holding them to ransom suggesting that will somehow get us a better deal?
The EU has held other countries to ransom plenty of times, we should have no hesitation about doing the same to them.
Ah, yes, like we successfully held them to ransom over Juncker's appointment.
What some Brexit celebrants don't get is that the EU has just had it with Britain. We've got to the stage of awkward marriages where one partner just wants the other to shut up and push off. "You want to go? Have a nice life, shut the door behind you. You demand concessions before you leave? Why?"
Are you a divorce lawyer? In any divorce the spouse can make demands like alimony.
Brexit looks like a celebrity divorce, thus there will be blackmails, hostages, twists and turns.
So the UK will win the battle with the EU like they won the battle over Juncker or the prosperity surcharge?
I'm feeling hugely optimistic today - the widely billed apocalypse failed to materialise yesterday, there are all kinds of interesting scenarios ahead in the negotiations (and the future of the EU) and domestic politics and for the future.
As a country we have lost our way. People don't know what we stand for any more, people are selfish and introverted, our economy had ground to a halt with no thought beyond the immediate future.
Suddenly we are looking at ourselves and our society and talking about the good and the bad and asking the big questions. We are being forced to think about the medium and long term and what decisions we need to make now. The political and economic establishment has been routed and doesn't know what to do with itself.
Democracy is Revolution. We should be rejoicing. I know I am.
This is a great post.
I also think people saying "the government NEEDS to be DOING something RIGHT NOW!" may have missed the revolutionary aspect of what has just happened. It will take time for it to be digested, before it can be sensibly acted on.
I hope that some progress will be made next week - as rcs says, businesses will need clarity over the basic structure of a deal, and it's likely that there will be some consensus on that in political circles - but it's a much to expect this to be dealt with over the weekend, when everyone is emotional and sleep-deprived.
Suspect the contingency planning was very very poor and that would inevitably slow a response down. If I'm correct then that's my biggest gripe.
I fully concur with the last paragraph - for me that is inexcusable. I suspect when the truth does emerge there'll be one hell of a row as the reality dawns that Brexit has become Fudgit.
Moan, moan, moan. The silver lining of losing is that the winners have to man up and own the sh*tshow.
Really? On day 2? The point is that the 'winners' have no voice. The 'losers' own every platform and they are determined that they're going to do as much damage as they can. Things are shaky enough because of the decision to leave. Thats inevitable. But the remain side are doing all they can to make it worse, to talk everything down as far as humanly possible. To make it seem so bad that the decision is reversed. And you really cant deny that can you?
Forgive me for this rant but... Is it just me or... are we in the middle of a coordinated campaign to reverse the result of the referendum? After long consideration I voted Leave having looked at both sides. I wasn't a committed Leaver. I wasn't fond of the EU for the reasons everyone seems to have forgotten, but I wanted to weigh up both sides. I expected a short term shock if we left. But this? I didn't expect an outright campaign to deny democracy. There aren't two sides to the debate any more. There is just one. Everywhere I look, on every media platform, from every politician, expert and pundit I am ALLOWED to see or hear, Im inundated with a relentless barrage of 'we have denied Paradise to our children and condemned them to an inevitable life of penury and fascism'. But its not too late! Maybe a General election can save us! Or individual cities can declare UDI! We can still turn back to the promised land! Suddenly the EU isn't a sclerotic, undemocratic, corrupt megalith, its Heaven on Earth and We Turned our Backs On It. Life in Europe is as close to perfection as we poor mortals can attain (and we should really ignore its teensy little flaws). As a result of our bigoted madness, the world is ending. Nothing will ever be good again. The sun will never shine. We will all starve in Little England (little Scotland is fine of course because its allowed to be proud of its identity). And thats barely hyperbole-- look on social media. The shaming and bullying of people who voted Leave,.... Though if Leave had hit no more than 48% they'd have been told to shut up and accept democracy. I understand that many people felt safer in the Eu, that leaving is a risk. But then so is staying to Leave voters. I wonder if this is what happened to the French and the Irish when they dared to vote wrongly before being led to safety. If their political and media establishments browbeat them into submission. We said the Uk would never allow that; we respect democracy too much. Really? The whipping up of mass hysteria, the deliberate, gleeful talking down of the UKs prospects, the attempt to make existence after exit seem all but impossible, like a return to the Dark Ages, the hints that since the vote was Wrong we can reset it ... Is this is why no province dares leave the empire? Thank you for indulging me. Better out than in. In every sense.
First class rant - and it's not just you.
It's basically the spoiled soiled lefty brats kicking the toys out of the pram. They never had to cope with adversity as a child being brought up swathed in protection from the real world (blame the NUT) and as such they have no defensive mechanism to cope with adversity.
I see we have another pushed attempted narrative that millions of people voted Leave, but didn't really mean it and want to change their vote. No they didn't. This wasn't FPTP where they thought they had a free hit voting Green or UKIP and got Tory instead.
Just because the media have found a handful of people means f##k all.
Have to say - LauraK was superb on the results prog.
Lucid, honest and pithy. She's just said "London is surrounding by a sea of Leavers - what can any Party do when millions of voters are all pointing at them and saying you-don't-understand."
"The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ, Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line, Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.”
I know
What's hilarious is the Brexiteers desperately trying to erase it !
For all the talk about scotland, 1.6 million voted YES and 1.6 million voted to Remain. The SNP cannot be sure they will get many extra votes from this.
Turnout 85% vs turnout 68%
Precisely, fewer people thought the EU was such a big thing as independence.
Yes, they keep updating the number of people who've signed the petition for a re-run on their 'live news' page. This is cruel to those people who don't realise that it will have zero effect.
You think that's bad? Apparently Brexit will have zero effect on the number of Poles and Romanians coming into the country. How cruel for LEAVE voters!
I don't understand the abbreviation rUK, I'd thought maybe rump UK but that doesn't seem right.
What does it mean?
Rest of UK
Thanks.
As someone has already said, without Scotland, the original union is broken and there won't be any United Kingdom. So 'rest of' should really be 'former': #fUK.
The EU can demand what it likes , but it is clearly laid down that it is for the departing state to activate Article 50. At the end of the day the UK Government is not even constitutionally bound to honour the Referendum result even though politically it would be very difficult to do otherwise.
It is equally clear that no state can hold the entire EU hostage by threatening to secede without actually triggering it.
If we faff about too long they might just declare us in breach of existing treaties and kick anyway
Lol. Fat chance. Using what legal mechanism, pray?
The simplest mechanism would be to state that if Article 50 is not invoked then on June 24 2018, the EU team will cease negotiations.
We can delay the start of negotiations, but either side can bring forward the End of negotiations, if not the Brexit date.
@CD13 I accept the verdict of the British people. I think it's a disaster on multiple levels, but there should be no rerun of the referendum. Leavers should now be left to implement the decision. As ScottP says, you Brexit, you own it.
It will be morbidly fascinating to watch the unfolding drama.
Regarding Northern Ireland: the Republic of Ireland grants citizenship to people born in Ireland on the same basis regardless of which side of the border they were born on. So following a Brexit almost everyone in NI would remain entitled to an EU passport. Gibraltarians with Irish connections should bear that in mind.
In Scotland there will be trouble. I am going to point out to my neighbour who voted No in the indyref and Leave in the EUref that an independent Scotland that is in the EU when rUK is outside it would be likely to be a magnet for large numbers of East European immigrants.
If London goes independent, anyone who lives in Britain outside of London should get their bug-out bag, water purifying tablets, wind-up radio, big bags of lentils and brown rice etc.
Moan, moan, moan. The silver lining of losing is that the winners have to man up and own the sh*tshow.
Really? On day 2? The point is that the 'winners' have no voice. The 'losers' own every platform and they are determined that they're going to do as much damage as they can. Things are shaky enough because of the decision to leave. Thats inevitable. But the remain side are doing all they can to make it worse, to talk everything down as far as humanly possible. To make it seem so bad that the decision is reversed. And you really cant deny that can you?
Have to say - LauraK was superb on the results prog.
Lucid, honest and pithy. She's just said "London is surrounding by a sea of Leavers - what can any Party do when millions of voters are all pointing at them and saying you-don't-understand."
And at one point I thought she got really emotional and her voice started cracking - and then I realised that, of course, they all had personal stakes in this. Overall the coverage was very professional, I thought.
The EU can demand what it likes , but it is clearly laid down that it is for the departing state to activate Article 50. At the end of the day the UK Government is not even constitutionally bound to honour the Referendum result even though politically it would be very difficult to do otherwise.
It is equally clear that no state can hold the entire EU hostage by threatening to secede without actually triggering it.
If we faff about too long they might just declare us in breach of existing treaties and kick anyway
Lol. Fat chance. Using what legal mechanism, pray?
The simplest mechanism would be to state that if Article 50 is not invoked then on June 24 2018, the EU team will cease negotiations.
We can delay the start of negotiations, but either side can bring forward the End of negotiations, if not the Brexit date.
Which would demonstrate precisely why we were right to Leave.
@DavidL As a unionist Leaver, what's your take on all the discussion about IndyRef2?
Made a couple of comments on this thread. Scotland cannot possibly go for independence until we have a viable economy and we just don't. This has been disguised by North Sea oil for quite some time but the underlying reality is now exposed and it is not good. Our financial services industry has not recovered from 2008 and has been drifting south since Sindy. Alliance Trust looks like another possible mover. The last thing we need is that trend being accelerated by threats of another referendum.
I am pretty sure Nicola gets this. She also gets that a significant part of her support does not and she needs to be seen to be doing something. Her hope has to be that the UK ends up with a deal that is sufficiently close to membership of the EU that Scotland would have completely unrestricted access to the rUK market in or out of the EU. That remains far from clear right now but it is certainly what our UK government should be working for.
I'm feeling hugely optimistic today - the widely billed apocalypse failed to materialise yesterday, there are all kinds of interesting scenarios ahead in the negotiations (and the future of the EU) and domestic politics and for the future.
As a country we have lost our way. People don't know what we stand for any more, people are selfish and introverted, our economy had ground to a halt with no thought beyond the immediate future.
Suddenly we are looking at ourselves and our society and talking about the good and the bad and asking the big questions. We are being forced to think about the medium and long term and what decisions we need to make now. The political and economic establishment has been routed and doesn't know what to do with itself.
Democracy is Revolution. We should be rejoicing. I know I am.
This is a great post.
I also think people saying "the government NEEDS to be DOING something RIGHT NOW!" may have missed the revolutionary aspect of what has just happened. It will take time for it to be digested, before it can be sensibly acted on.
I hope that some progress will be made next week - as rcs says, businesses will need clarity over the basic structure of a deal, and it's likely that there will be some consensus on that in political circles - but it's a much to expect this to be dealt with over the weekend, when everyone is emotional and sleep-deprived.
Suspect the contingency planning was very very poor and that would inevitably slow a response down. If I'm correct then that's my biggest gripe.
I fully concur with the last paragraph - for me that is inexcusable. I suspect when the truth does emerge there'll be one hell of a row as the reality dawns that Brexit has become Fudgit.
Brexit will only become Fudgit if it is now rushed. What we need is not angry emotional comments from either side, but Statemanship to say 'the process will be orderly and with a view to the best interests of all parties' to provide the reassurance to the markets that Robert referenced.
After that, there is an imperative to get it right, rather than to rush.
That's the problem with the EU at the moment too, and precisely why we should not trigger Article 50 until everyone has had time to calm down and adapt to the new reality.
But we do need Heads of Terms asap. All investment decisions in the UK will be put on hold until we have an outline of what Britain post-EU will look like.
Yes an executive summary would be nice.
Problem is, as soon as it is clear Free movement will be part of the deal, the howls of betrayal will begin.
Let them, I wish it were possible to buy shares in Betrayal as @SouthamObserver has suggested!
We have the Leave vote now and we need to move forwards to protect our economic interests and fix immigration over the long term within the EEA/EFTA with the Norwegians and Swiss involved as well. We won't solve the issue of immigration over night, anyone who believes that needs their head checked.
How dare you suggest UKIP supporters may be n*t*a*e*?
The EU can demand what it likes , but it is clearly laid down that it is for the departing state to activate Article 50. At the end of the day the UK Government is not even constitutionally bound to honour the Referendum result even though politically it would be very difficult to do otherwise.
It is equally clear that no state can hold the entire EU hostage by threatening to secede without actually triggering it.
If we faff about too long they might just declare us in breach of existing treaties and kick anyway
Lol. Fat chance. Using what legal mechanism, pray?
The simplest mechanism would be to state that if Article 50 is not invoked then on June 24 2018, the EU team will cease negotiations.
We can delay the start of negotiations, but either side can bring forward the End of negotiations, if not the Brexit date.
That would put them in breach of their treaty obligations.
@CD13 I accept the verdict of the British people. I think it's a disaster on multiple levels, but there should be no rerun of the referendum. Leavers should now be left to implement the decision. As ScottP says, you Brexit, you own it.
It will be morbidly fascinating to watch the unfolding drama.
Until Cameron hands it over to a Leaver team to handle, it remains his problem.
BTW, are Brexiteers who advocating holding them to ransom suggesting that will somehow get us a better deal?
The EU has held other countries to ransom plenty of times, we should have no hesitation about doing the same to them.
Ah, yes, like we successfully held them to ransom over Juncker's appointment.
What some Brexit celebrants don't get is that the EU has just had it with Britain. We've got to the stage of awkward marriages where one partner just wants the other to shut up and push off. "You want to go? Have a nice life, shut the door behind you. You demand concessions before you leave? Why?"
Are you a divorce lawyer? In any divorce the spouse can make demands like alimony.
Brexit looks like a celebrity divorce, thus there will be blackmails, hostages, twists and turns.
So the UK will win the battle with the EU like they won the battle over Juncker or the prosperity surcharge?
If you have a Leaver in charge who actually believes in the cause of his own country, instead of a jellyfish Remainer who believes in the cause of the EU, then you are going to have an actual negotiation instead of a Cameron type one.
Moan, moan, moan. The silver lining of losing is that the winners have to man up and own the sh*tshow.
Really? On day 2? The point is that the 'winners' have no voice. The 'losers' own every platform and they are determined that they're going to do as much damage as they can. Things are shaky enough because of the decision to leave. Thats inevitable. But the remain side are doing all they can to make it worse, to talk everything down as far as humanly possible. To make it seem so bad that the decision is reversed. And you really cant deny that can you?
The winners own almost every print media source.
The winners can't do anything at the moment - when I last looked Mr Cameron was still in No 10, Mr Osborne in 11, Mrs May the Home Secretary and Philip Hammond the Foreign Secretary - not exactly 100% Brexiters.
Yes, they keep updating the number of people who've signed the petition for a re-run on their 'live news' page. This is cruel to those people who don't realise that it will have zero effect.
The EU can demand what it likes , but it is clearly laid down that it is for the departing state to activate Article 50. At the end of the day the UK Government is not even constitutionally bound to honour the Referendum result even though politically it would be very difficult to do otherwise.
It is equally clear that no state can hold the entire EU hostage by threatening to secede without actually triggering it.
If we faff about too long they might just declare us in breach of existing treaties and kick anyway
Lol. Fat chance. Using what legal mechanism, pray?
The simplest mechanism would be to state that if Article 50 is not invoked then on June 24 2018, the EU team will cease negotiations.
Why stop there? Why not date it from 7 May 2015, when the UK public voted in the government that delivered the referendum which subsequently advised the government to start exit negotiations?
Article 50 is very clear: 1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements. 2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. Our constitutional requirement is that that this was an advisory referendum, and the PM will notify the European Council of our decision to leave when he chooses. If the EU doesn't like the wording of article 50, it should probably have changed it- perhaps even when the European public rejected it the first time round.
Somehow your post brought to mind an image of a toddler throwing a screaming fit in a grocery store.
If Boris wants to see "toys out of pram" he can sign a deal that allows free movement.
Then duck
I have no problem with free movement as long as the EU kicks the SNP in it's balls in exchange for it.
You seem to be FUMING.
Never mind, I'm sure Speedy heart-throb James Kelly MSP is poised to take over the reins of SLab and will save the Union whilst kicking the SNP's balls.
Yes, they keep updating the number of people who've signed the petition for a re-run on their 'live news' page. This is cruel to those people who don't realise that it will have zero effect.
If they get past 17m it will be more interesting.
All those petition are bollocks. Anybody can "vote", vote early, vote often, etc etc etc.
@CD13 I accept the verdict of the British people. I think it's a disaster on multiple levels, but there should be no rerun of the referendum. Leavers should now be left to implement the decision. As ScottP says, you Brexit, you own it.
It will be morbidly fascinating to watch the unfolding drama.
The people implementing the decision will be the govt, the govt will be led by the person deemed most suitable by Conservative party members.
I know you'd like to imagine Farage and Sean T doing the negotiations but I'm afraid they won't be, it will be Conservative Cabinet members.
Have to say - LauraK was superb on the results prog.
Lucid, honest and pithy. She's just said "London is surrounding by a sea of Leavers - what can any Party do when millions of voters are all pointing at them and saying you-don't-understand."
And at one point I thought she got really emotional and her voice started cracking - and then I realised that, of course, they all had personal stakes in this. Overall the coverage was very professional, I thought.
The result has really dented the media's opinion of themselves - Boulton, Newton-Dunne and others are either in stupid-oiks or WTF mode. Newton-Dunne at least shows self-awareness.
Moan, moan, moan. The silver lining of losing is that the winners have to man up and own the sh*tshow.
Really? On day 2? The point is that the 'winners' have no voice. The 'losers' own every platform and they are determined that they're going to do as much damage as they can. Things are shaky enough because of the decision to leave. Thats inevitable. But the remain side are doing all they can to make it worse, to talk everything down as far as humanly possible. To make it seem so bad that the decision is reversed. And you really cant deny that can you?
The winners own almost every print media source.
The winners can't do anything at the moment - when I last looked Mr Cameron was still in No 10, Mr Osborne in 11, Mrs May the Home Secretary and Philip Hammond the Foreign Secretary - not exactly 100% Brexiters.
The winners are in no hurry to step up to replace the pro-EU government, or indeed to leave the EU or to reduce EU immigration. One gets the strange sense that the ideal result for almost everybody in professional politics was 51-52 REMAIN.
Yes, they keep updating the number of people who've signed the petition for a re-run on their 'live news' page. This is cruel to those people who don't realise that it will have zero effect.
If they get past 17m it will be more interesting.
Why? I earlier heard R5 interviewing a Welsh football fan who said he was disappointed by the result. Then he said he hadn't voted. No-one can say that didn't know the referendum was taking place and the turn out suggests that people knew it was important - the rest is democracy.
@faisalislam: So Day 2: diplomatic crisis as EU big 6 demand A50 invoked next week. Constitutional crisis as Scots says will talk directly with EU to stay
What's the easiest, cheapest way to mitigate a Sterling crash next week?
I was a firm Remainer but accept the result absolutely and unconditionally: we will leave the EU. But if - and I readily accept that it's a big if at this stage - the predictions, so derided by the Leavers often in highly unpleasant and offensive tones, such as Scotland leaving the UK and sustained destabilisation in financial markets, with an eventual impact on the real economy, why on earth should somehow we remain silent?
The early portends on a number of fronts are not encouraging; how is it disloyal or unpatriotic to point this out?
The victorious Leavers should be less sensitive, defensive and intolerant. You won!
The first opinion polls (yes, I know!) after the referendum are going to be fascinating. The Conservatives are probably going to have lost a lot of support from horrified Remainers. Will they in compensation - or more than compensation - gain support from delighted non-Tory Leavers? Will UKIP's support go up or down?
From my perspective it's a sit on ones hands opportunity. I voted for the Conservatives during The Hague and Duncan-Smith eras notwithstanding that I thought the pair of them were poor. I thought the basic principles of liberal conservatism were worth supporting. Now I look at them and see peopke who nominally believe in "Thatcherite" economics lamenting our inability to subsidise steel making. I see that they somehow believe that they will be in permanent power because the EU acted as a legal bulwark against the type of economy that Jeremy Corbyn would love to impose. They've given the left of Labour the chance to really do what it wants and, through their inability to see the wood for the trees, the real possibility of their being elected.
Still, I suppose the freedom that will come from it is worth it. Shame that freedom appears to be little more ugly, gurning nationalism. The triumph of the non-experts, I suppose.
Have to say - LauraK was superb on the results prog.
Lucid, honest and pithy. She's just said "London is surrounding by a sea of Leavers - what can any Party do when millions of voters are all pointing at them and saying you-don't-understand."
And at one point I thought she got really emotional and her voice started cracking - and then I realised that, of course, they all had personal stakes in this. Overall the coverage was very professional, I thought.
Yes, a far cry from a year ago (GE2015) when SKY were far superior.
For all the angst and wailing and gnashing of teeth the sun's still shining, the gardens looking great, children are still playing and birds are still singing.
I don't understand the abbreviation rUK, I'd thought maybe rump UK but that doesn't seem right.
What does it mean?
Rest of UK
Thanks.
As someone has already said, without Scotland, the original union is broken and there won't be any United Kingdom. So 'rest of' should really be 'former': #fUK.
Should that read 'Formerly United Countries of the Kingdom'?
You can feel the country shrinking by the hour. But the voters can't say they weren't warned.
that simply means they didnt care for your version of the country
If Scotland goes independent, which now seems much more likely, it will have physically shrunk. Never mind the other diminutions.
And for what? Fewer foreigners and curvy cucumbers. Oh well.
No. For accountable politicians for employers and politicans not just in touch with their constituents but who respect their views, for prosperity spread wider than the South East of England, for a relationship with our European neighbors based on respect not the interests of two founder members, for a dynamic economy, for affordable housing, for free education and for a bgetter future for our kids.
curvy cucumbers dont worry me in the slightest, I could have voted Remain if we were offered something approaching the nature of this country. A european confederation rather than a union. But cameron refused the offer and the EU core chose to insist on ever closer union.
For all the angst and wailing and gnashing of teeth the sun's still shining, the gardens looking great, children are still playing and birds are still singing.
Life goes on.
And the Aus vs Eng rugby was f##king epic....To have a match between two top teams, where one scores 40 points and still loses is unheard of.
I was a firm Remainer but accept the result absolutely and unconditionally: we will leave the EU. But if - and I readily accept that it's a big if at this stage - the predictions, so derided by the Leavers often in highly unpleasant and offensive tones, such as Scotland leaving the UK and sustained destabilisation in financial markets, with an eventual impact on the real economy, why on earth should somehow we remain silent?
The early portends on a number of fronts are not encouraging; how is it disloyal or unpatriotic to point this out?
The victorious Leavers should be less sensitive, defensive and intolerant. You won!
Leave was a coalition of the sensitive, the defensive and the intolerant. We now know that's an election-winning coalition, which is a grim harbinger for the future.
Ah, yes, like we successfully held them to ransom over Juncker's appointment.
What some Brexit celebrants don't get is that the EU has just had it with Britain. We've got to the stage of awkward marriages where one partner just wants the other to shut up and push off. "You want to go? Have a nice life, shut the door behind you. You demand concessions before you leave? Why?"
They will act in their own interests, as we will in ours, as far as each of us can. No special favours. That's absolutely fair enough, indeed that's the whole idea of this Brexit malarkey. I don't know why some Leavers are incapable of following their own logic.
In practice, that means a trade deal in manufactured goods, and significant damage to the City and other services industries. That's what the public voted for, in full knowledge of the facts.
Such a deal is not in our interests and we will not sign it. Either we get access for our services industry or they start paying tariffs on a significant part of their exports.
Regarding Northern Ireland: the Republic of Ireland grants citizenship to people born in Ireland on the same basis regardless of which side of the border they were born on. So following a Brexit almost everyone in NI would remain entitled to an EU passport. Gibraltarians with Irish connections should bear that in mind.
In Scotland there will be trouble. I am going to point out to my neighbour who voted No in the indyref and Leave in the EUref that an independent Scotland that is in the EU when rUK is outside it would be likely to be a magnet for large numbers of East European immigrants.
If London goes independent, anyone who lives in Britain outside of London should get their bug-out bag, water purifying tablets, wind-up radio, big bags of lentils and brown rice etc.
Moan, moan, moan. The silver lining of losing is that the winners have to man up and own the sh*tshow.
Really? On day 2? The point is that the 'winners' have no voice. The 'losers' own every platform and they are determined that they're going to do as much damage as they can. Things are shaky enough because of the decision to leave. Thats inevitable. But the remain side are doing all they can to make it worse, to talk everything down as far as humanly possible. To make it seem so bad that the decision is reversed. And you really cant deny that can you?
The winners own almost every print media source.
Read the Telegraph and the Mail. There's the odd pundit who supports the decision. Everything else is The Sky Will Soon Be Falling. The thing about the right wing press is, its just as happy to eat its own as anyone else if theres a story in it. And everywhere including on this board 'ordinary' Leave voters are being characterised as stupid, uneducated, shouldn't have a vote really. Looking at the hysteria around us, we're not supposed to notice that Remain has more than its fair share of entitled, easily-led muppets in its ranks? One of the most educational things about this result has been the pure contempt in which the working class is held by left wing elites as well as right wing ones.
Somehow your post brought to mind an image of a toddler throwing a screaming fit in a grocery store.
If Boris wants to see "toys out of pram" he can sign a deal that allows free movement.
Then duck
I have no problem with free movement as long as the EU kicks the SNP in it's balls in exchange for it.
You seem to be FUMING.
Never mind, I'm sure Speedy heart-throb James Kelly MSP is poised to take over the reins of SLab and will save the Union whilst kicking the SNP's balls.
Speaking of free movement of peoples. Is Nicky housing any refugees in any of her residences yet as she promised she would ?
Have to say - LauraK was superb on the results prog.
Lucid, honest and pithy. She's just said "London is surrounding by a sea of Leavers - what can any Party do when millions of voters are all pointing at them and saying you-don't-understand."
And at one point I thought she got really emotional and her voice started cracking - and then I realised that, of course, they all had personal stakes in this. Overall the coverage was very professional, I thought.
Yes, a far cry from a year ago (GE2015) when SKY were far superior.
I agree on that. BBC 2015 coverage was dire - they went to hardly any declarations on time. But I still hated the Downing Street graphics nonsense on Thursday/Friday - a bar chart would have been just fine.
Comments
https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/746704722619404288
Brilliant article in the Daily Mail by Richard Littlejohn - "The Secret People of England." I suggest the arrogant "Remainers" in that far distant land called London read it, then they might learn something about this country that they appear to know so little of.
Come on Switzerland !
In terms of our prospects the current gyrations of the markets aren't the central issue. What will matter is whether or not we get slowly drawn into a viscious circle of disinvestment->unemployment->increasing debt->less spending, or lower pound->more inflation->rising interest rates->less spending etc. It will be months before we can even start to guess.
In practice, that means a trade deal in manufactured goods, and significant damage to the City and other services industries. That's what the public voted for, in full knowledge of the facts.
The cuts would be on a scale that is literally unimaginable in a developed country. As would the unemployment. It is beyond stupid, even SNP stupid.
Then duck
In any divorce the spouse can make demands like alimony.
Brexit looks like a celebrity divorce, thus there will be blackmails, hostages, twists and turns.
Alastair Campbell @campbellclaret · 3m3 minutes ago
@LouiseMensch there are bigger Qs for you. Like how to deliver on the lies you told to win. or having helped fuck UK assume U now back in US
https://twitter.com/LouiseMensch/status/746705805173493760
All this social media/indyref2 fuss - the metro elite got its arse handed to it. The metro elite doesn't like it.
@camillalong: @annemcelvoy The next big fight is Farage vs Boris. Ding ding!
This site is a perfect example, thread header after thread header patronisingly telling Leave what they should do, even now the same people seemingly refuse to accept what's happened.
Frankly its hilarious and thoroughly enjoyable.
1.5 million people have signed the petition calling for another referendum. I hope this number goes up to 10 or 20 million.
Regarding Northern Ireland: the Republic of Ireland grants citizenship to people born in Ireland on the same basis regardless of which side of the border they were born on. So following a Brexit almost everyone in NI would remain entitled to an EU passport. Gibraltarians with Irish connections should bear that in mind.
In Scotland there will be trouble. I am going to point out to my neighbour who voted No in the indyref and Leave in the EUref that an independent Scotland that is in the EU when rUK is outside it would be likely to be a magnet for large numbers of East European immigrants.
If London goes independent, anyone who lives in Britain outside of London should get their bug-out bag, water purifying tablets, wind-up radio, big bags of lentils and brown rice etc. Can you develop that scenario? Race war? BNP replacing UKIP as the favoured non-Tory party for the Tory far right?
I'm not at all convinced that Boris Johnson will be PM.
Be of good cheer, you have to remember that the losers are hurting inside (still at the anger and denial stage) and lashing out indiscriminately, but impotently.
Mr Meeks and Mr P,
The nation has decided. You won't take advice from a Leaver - being therefore old, racist and thick, but as a famous Persian once said...
"The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.”
Come off it Nick. Every EU country has always acted in their perceived best interests and tried to fight their corner which is why all your talk of an EU acting as some sort of benevolent debating society has always been so much rubbish. The states and the EU as a whole will continue to act exactly as they have always done to get what they want and if that means holding their noses and doing a deal with the perfidious Albion then that is exactly what they will do.
And for what? Fewer foreigners and curvy cucumbers. Oh well.
Just because the media have found a handful of people means f##k all.
Lucid, honest and pithy. She's just said "London is surrounding by a sea of Leavers - what can any Party do when millions of voters are all pointing at them and saying you-don't-understand."
About 40% of Northerners might go for it.
What's hilarious is the Brexiteers desperately trying to erase it !
"We didn't campaign on immigration"
Priceless
We can delay the start of negotiations, but either side can bring forward the End of negotiations, if not the Brexit date.
It will be morbidly fascinating to watch the unfolding drama.
Which would demonstrate precisely why we were right to Leave.
I am pretty sure Nicola gets this. She also gets that a significant part of her support does not and she needs to be seen to be doing something. Her hope has to be that the UK ends up with a deal that is sufficiently close to membership of the EU that Scotland would have completely unrestricted access to the rUK market in or out of the EU. That remains far from clear right now but it is certainly what our UK government should be working for.
After that, there is an imperative to get it right, rather than to rush.
'The first opinion polls (yes, I know!) after the referendum are going to be fascinating.'
Is anyone going to bother with them or if they do take them seriously ?
Article 50 is very clear: 1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements. 2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. Our constitutional requirement is that that this was an advisory referendum, and the PM will notify the European Council of our decision to leave when he chooses. If the EU doesn't like the wording of article 50, it should probably have changed it- perhaps even when the European public rejected it the first time round.
Never mind, I'm sure Speedy heart-throb James Kelly MSP is poised to take over the reins of SLab and will save the Union whilst kicking the SNP's balls.
I know you'd like to imagine Farage and Sean T doing the negotiations but I'm afraid they won't be, it will be Conservative Cabinet members.
The early portends on a number of fronts are not encouraging; how is it disloyal or unpatriotic to point this out?
The victorious Leavers should be less sensitive, defensive and intolerant. You won!
Still, I suppose the freedom that will come from it is worth it. Shame that freedom appears to be little more ugly, gurning nationalism. The triumph of the non-experts, I suppose.
Life goes on.
curvy cucumbers dont worry me in the slightest, I could have voted Remain if we were offered something approaching the nature of this country. A european confederation rather than a union. But cameron refused the offer and the EU core chose to insist on ever closer union.
I wonder where the chuff is hiding