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Mine is graduates, quite alot of scientists. Youngish. Was always going to be for "remain"Fenster said:
My Facebook (just checked, a grouping of 1948 people) is about as representative of the working classes as you can get. I doubt any of my 'friends' follow politics as much as I do and none will earn above £80k per annum. Most below £25k.Pulpstar said:
My Facebook heavily for "remain". I've posted some stuff relating to betting odds and told people to buy stuff priced fundamentally in USD sooner rather than later, oh and told everyone to vote but haven't done some of the ridiculous preaching I've seen going on.Fenster said:I must confess, even as a Brexiteer, that I thought the polls would've converged around a 53-47 (and growing) Remain victory split by now. The fact they haven' must be worrying for the Remain camp.
If Comres goes with Leave then I do think Brexit is a possibility tomorrow. Earlier on today I thought Remain was going to edge it relatively comfortably.
My Facebook page colours my view though - I see a lot of LEAVE posts and hardly anyone backing Remain.0 -
I don't think Armageddon. It will be a lot of pain for no real gain but that pain can be mitigated if people are sensible. Mind you, if people were sensible, or at least aware of the likely implications, the might not vote Leave, so who knows?TOPPING said:
I've backed Leave at a reasonable amount. A modest hedge againstBlueberry said:Interesting...
William Hill @sharpeangle 6m6 minutes ago
Signs of a late gamble on 'Leave' which has attracted 70.4% of all bets struck on the outcome; Hills cut Leave from 3/1 to 11/4. Remain 1/4.
William Hill @sharpeangle 9m9 minutes ago
Here's a nice stat from the William EU Ref book - average stake per Leave bet £77.54; average stake per Remain bet £408.45. #EURefarmageddon and the idiocy of my fellow countrymena Leave vote.
I can tell you right here that it doesn't betoken my voting Leave.
I can't be the only one.0 -
Battle of the islands.0
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Cod war 2: fish for victory.
EDIT bah, RobD got there first.0 -
Oh, that's crap then.Richard_Nabavi said:
In addition, these aren't bank ATMs. That's going to skew it even more:TOPPING said:These days people use contactless to buy anything from a skinny latte to a pound of apples at Sainsburys.
Not sure you can draw any conclusion from who queues up at a cashpoint. Problem FOBT gamblers, perhaps?
http://www.cardtronics.com/about/united-kingdom.asp0 -
Royal Magistrate: [to crowd] The prisoner wishes to say a word.Morris_Dancer said:Dr. Prasannan, let us not ape a film so historically wrongheaded it makes Mr. Eagles appear a scholar of history.
William: BREEEXXIIITTT!!!!!0 -
Technically cod wars 4....AlastairMeeks said:Cod war 2: fish for victory.
EDIT bah, RobD got there first.
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My mother thinks Margaret Thatcher was a wimp.tlg86 said:
Women live longer - more likely to be older?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Glenn, I was more thinking that I'd expect (and prior polling supports) men being more for Leave and women being more for Remain, but the opposite is indicated in the figures below.
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So who knocks us out in the quarter finals then?0
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Yeah, that sounds very Remainian. You move in posher circles than me LOL - and I'm not some incredibly popular guy, I just know a lot of people through rugby because I coached for years and run the club's website.Pulpstar said:
Mine is graduates, quite alot of scientists. Youngish. Was always going to be for "remain"Fenster said:
My Facebook (just checked, a grouping of 1948 people) is about as representative of the working classes as you can get. I doubt any of my 'friends' follow politics as much as I do and none will earn above £80k per annum. Most below £25k.Pulpstar said:
My Facebook heavily for "remain". I've posted some stuff relating to betting odds and told people to buy stuff priced fundamentally in USD sooner rather than later, oh and told everyone to vote but haven't done some of the ridiculous preaching I've seen going on.Fenster said:I must confess, even as a Brexiteer, that I thought the polls would've converged around a 53-47 (and growing) Remain victory split by now. The fact they haven' must be worrying for the Remain camp.
If Comres goes with Leave then I do think Brexit is a possibility tomorrow. Earlier on today I thought Remain was going to edge it relatively comfortably.
My Facebook page colours my view though - I see a lot of LEAVE posts and hardly anyone backing Remain.0 -
So we is playing Iceland instead of Portugal?
cue: Great Escape music.0 -
Do you think that because of the charge to use them?Richard_Nabavi said:
In addition, these aren't bank ATMs. That's going to skew it even more:TOPPING said:These days people use contactless to buy anything from a skinny latte to a pound of apples at Sainsburys.
Not sure you can draw any conclusion from who queues up at a cashpoint. Problem FOBT gamblers, perhaps?
http://www.cardtronics.com/about/united-kingdom.asp0 -
Iceland will want revenge after Gordon Brown used anti-terror legislation to freeze their assets in the UK.0
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So England vs Iceland?0
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Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 49 No 51
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_19950 -
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"Stick it up your Geyser!"Blueberry said:Battle of the islands.
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Are his trebuchets big enough to reach Reykjavik?MarqueeMark said:0 -
No, the locations.RobD said:Do you think that because of the charge to use them?
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Both I would say.Richard_Nabavi said:
No, the locations.RobD said:Do you think that because of the charge to use them?
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I was campaigning for Boris in 2008 and 2012 I was with him personally on two occasions and I couldn't help noticing that he was far more popular with women than men, he was less popular with white men, even some Tories didn't like him.tlg86 said:
Women live longer - more likely to be older?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Glenn, I was more thinking that I'd expect (and prior polling supports) men being more for Leave and women being more for Remain, but the opposite is indicated in the figures below.
He was also very popular with ethnic minorities both men and women. As he's the main face of the Leave campaign this could explain it.
Little has been said about the ethnic minority vote, but I've got a feeling that the older Commonwealth types are more inclined to support Leave.
Of course my experience was only confined to the capital and Boris may not be as popular in the regions.0 -
See? Being outside the EU did Iceland no harm in qualifying for the next round
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Of course, if we have voted for Brexit, then Monday will be Iceland v Guernsey.....0
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The best Remain can hope for - please let this be Quebec 1995. There little else pointing their way, so now it's just blind hope.HYUFD said:Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 49 No 51
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_19950 -
You're not going all wobbly on us, are you, Mr. Dancer?Morris_Dancer said:Ha, this made me smile (also Isabel Hardman was talking much sense on the Sky Papers the other night):
https://twitter.com/IsabelHardman/status/7456705517719388210 -
Except the UK is not Quebec. We historically have been a sovereign nation, unlike Quebec, especially in the eyes of older voters.HYUFD said:Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 51 No 49
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_19950 -
Boris is popular, probably brings out the maternal instinct, as long as he doesn't try for PM.DeClare said:
I was campaigning for Boris in 2008 and 2012 I was with him personally on two occasions and I couldn't help noticing that he was far more popular with women than men, he was less popular with white men, even some Tories didn't like him.tlg86 said:
Women live longer - more likely to be older?Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Glenn, I was more thinking that I'd expect (and prior polling supports) men being more for Leave and women being more for Remain, but the opposite is indicated in the figures below.
He was also very popular with ethnic minorities both men and women. As he's the main face of the Leave campaign this could explain it.
Little has been said about the ethnic minority vote, but I've got a feeling that the older Commonwealth types are more inclined to support Leave.
Of course my experience was only confined to the capital and Boris may not be as popular in the regions.0 -
Almost no poll has shown Leave above 50% with undecideds included, where the undecideds go remains pivotalkle4 said:
The best Remain can hope for - please let this be Quebec 1995. There little else pointing their way, so now it's just blind hope.HYUFD said:Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 49 No 51
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_19950 -
Brown is a Scot.FrankBooth said:Iceland will want revenge after Gordon Brown used anti-terror legislation to freeze their assets in the UK.
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Posted today by a boy from Merthyr. Not a friend, but I can see it because a friend commented on it. 112 likes! I live further down the valley and opinions are less harsh.
"For me I would rather have to work harder, work longer hours or even pay a little more tax or any of the other things they say we will have to do if we leave the eu, if it means keeping all them migrants who come here and abuse our country and have nothing but bad intentions OUT of our country And in the long run can leave a safer world for our kids and the family we leave behind"
!!0 -
Am I the only person whose family and friends by and large have the good taste not to inflict their views on the referendum on others on Facebook?0
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@AndyJS; @Fenster Here is my friend's post (Shared alot) on Brexit:
Some of you will vote 'leave' tomorrow and have just kept quiet about it. That's fine, it's up to you.
But please, remember this vote will affect you, your children and your grandchildren, and more importantly mine! This is not something we can ‘vote out’ in a few years’ time. It’s permanent.
At this point you’ve heard the facts. You’re probably sick of facts and won’t be convinced to vote Remain by any more. So if you want to vote for 'leave', please don’t so much fact-check, as reality check: look carefully at the two sides:
By voting Leave, you are going against the opinion of almost all Britain’s, if not the world’s, scientists, legal experts, business leaders, economists, and most of our politicians. This is not a conspiratorial blob; it is a group disparate individuals and organization across all professional and academic disciplines, often with opposing ideological views, but all agreeing that the UK is stronger in the EU.
You are ignoring the problems countries, such as Norway, have in terms of legislation and sovereignty: i.e. obeying the rules without a chance to set them.
You are going against the opinion of all our friends, partners and allies around the world from the USA to India to Japan. You are even ignored the Chinese government when they say the UK's world standing will be diminished outside the EU.
But, by voting Leave, you are listening to Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump.
You are listening to the campaigners promising a great economic future, yet the sectors that they claim will benefit most from Brexit don’t agree. Think about that. They claim business will boom; business does not agree.
You are listening to the call to stick two fingers up to the pampered elites... by listening to the rallying cry of the millionaires Borris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Paul Dacre and Rupert Murdoch. The latter being on record as saying he hates the EU because they don’t listen to *him*. I’ve heard many Leave voters say “experts” have vested interests in the EU, what do the Brexit-er’s have?
And yes, while I am not implying anything about you personally, it has to be said you are listening to, or at least on the side of, a section of society that believes 'foreigners' are the cause of all our ills.
Indeed, as a friend of mine pointed out, on social media “out” videos tend to be by bloggers, “in” videos by professors of economics or law; while Remain have a cornucopia of prominent supporters for TV and radio interviews, Brexit have the same two or three. At some point, the asymmetry in experts and arguments must suggest ‘both sides have their points’ is simply not a credible idea.
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But, more importantly, consider this.
On the 24th, it will almost be business as usual. This is no glorious revolution; there will be no change to UK domestic politics once the hang-over has worn off. So, do you trust that the Government, based on their behaviour in the last 6 years, will do the following:
1) Spend the money we now pay into the EU on public services, or use it for austerity and tax cuts for the mega-rich?
2) Spend the money that would come back through EU regional development funds in the same regions, or to focus all cash on London and/or areas they want win in 2020. i.e. business as usual?
3) Protect the hard-won workers’ rights, which will legally have to be rewritten in some form because most legislation for the past 30+years is connected to the EU, from the ever more rapacious demands of the mega-rich?
4) Negotiate deals with other countries, and especially the USA, that will benefit the citizens of the UK, rather than ones that will support their personal neo-liberal ideology?
Put it simply, Brexit have promised leaving the EU will somehow cure our problems with housing, with schools, with wages and with the NHS. Has this government, and have the Tories inside Brexit especially, done or said anything in the last decade to make you think that solving these problems is on their agenda? Because they haven't and they aren't.
If you are voting 'No' based on any of these issues, you will not get what you want.
In the last 20years or so we’ve fetishized the idea of ‘going it alone’, but you’re not curating a gap-year Tumblr account or saving your kidnap-prone daughter. It’s a romantic idea, and I know voting for what 'feels right' rather than 'what makes logical sense' has an appeal. But you're not ordering an extra slice of cake. No, you're voting in the most crucial and permanent vote we'll probably ever take part in.
Only vote 'Leave' if you can honestly look at yourself in the mirror and say you have seriously considered all the evidence available, both fact-checked and reality-checked it, and can firmly say to have come to a logical conclusion. '0 -
ANECDOTE ALERT
There was actually a lot of chatter about the referendum from customers in the shop I work at today. Opinion seemed more split between Remain and Leave than I would've expected, though Leave still seeming to have the edge.0 -
Cash Out options are the devils work. Especially when Hungary can't hold a lead long enough to make a decision.0
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Certainly much more embarrassing to lose to Iceland.brokenwheel said:I'm not sure who out of Iceland or Portugal we should be more scared to face...
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Didn't fit into 1 post.0
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The way they do it - only up while the cash is counted, then removed - should automagically factor in propensity to vote. I think the outcome they are predicting is quite reasonable too.AlastairMeeks said:That @Cardtronics approach is intriguing. One wonders how they weight it for demographics.
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If I die tonight, for whatever reason, I'd like all Leavers to do all they can to exploit my death to the advantage of the Leave campaign, even if it means slightly lying about how I died. And I don't want Remainiacs bitching about it.
Do you think there's any chance Jo Cox would have said something similar a week ago? I suppose the thing that might have stopped her was how it may affect her kids, but their Dad's taken them along today, so..0 -
Hard to say - there will be people here, myself for one, not on Facebook, so thankfully wouldn't know if their friends and family have been so cruel.AlastairMeeks said:Am I the only person whose family and friends by and large have the good taste not to inflict their views on the referendum on others on Facebook?
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May I add to the chorus of 'Welcome back' to @AndyJS0
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I still have absolutely no idea which way this is going to go but there is undoubtedly a delicious sense of desperation creeping into the Remain campaign.Pulpstar said:But, more importantly, consider this.
On the 24th, it will almost be business as usual. This is no glorious revolution; there will be no change to UK domestic politics once the hang-over has worn off. So, do you trust that the Government, based on their behaviour in the last 6 years, will do the following:
1) Spend the money we now pay into the EU on public services, or use it for austerity and tax cuts for the mega-rich?
2) Spend the money that would come back through EU regional development funds in the same regions, or to focus all cash on London and/or areas they want win in 2020. i.e. business as usual?
3) Protect the hard-won workers’ rights, which will legally have to be rewritten in some form because most legislation for the past 30+years is connected to the EU, from the ever more rapacious demands of the mega-rich?
4) Negotiate deals with other countries, and especially the USA, that will benefit the citizens of the UK, rather than ones that will support their personal neo-liberal ideology?
Put it simply, Brexit have promised leaving the EU will somehow cure our problems with housing, with schools, with wages and with the NHS. Has this government, and have the Tories inside Brexit especially, done or said anything in the last decade to make you think that solving these problems is on their agenda? Because they haven't and they aren't.
If you are voting 'No' based on any of these issues, you will not get what you want.
In the last 20years or so we’ve fetishized the idea of ‘going it alone’, but you’re not curating a gap-year Tumblr account or saving your kidnap-prone daughter. It’s a romantic idea, and I know voting for what 'feels right' rather than 'what makes logical sense' has an appeal. But you're not ordering an extra slice of cake. No, you're voting in the most crucial and permanent vote we'll probably ever take part in.
Only vote 'Leave' if you can honestly look at yourself in the mirror and say you have seriously considered all the evidence available, both fact-checked and reality-checked it, and can firmly say to have come to a logical conclusion. '0 -
We will still be a sovereign nation In or Out, the UK will not even be in the Eurozone and Quebec had more cultural differences with the rest of Canada than the UK does with say EU member Irelandbrokenwheel said:
Except the UK is not Quebec. We historically have been a sovereign nation, unlike Quebec, especially in the eyes of older voters.HYUFD said:Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 51 No 49
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_19950 -
My family has been pretty much silent on Brexit on Facebook.kle4 said:
Hard to say - there will be people here, myself for one, not on Facebook, so thankfully wouldn't know if their friends and family have been so cruel.AlastairMeeks said:Am I the only person whose family and friends by and large have the good taste not to inflict their views on the referendum on others on Facebook?
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I cannot believe that they will go as decisively for Remain as they did in Quebec in 1995. They went with their current country at the end of the day, that's not the case here, it is going with the EU - clearly any undecideds now are not super fans of the EU or they'd be Remainers, so they're at best going to be reluctant Remainers, and given that, and the antipathy toward the EU, even if a majority of them go for Remain, I don't think it will be enough.HYUFD said:
Almost no poll has shown Leave above 50% with undecideds included, where the undecideds go remains pivotalkle4 said:
The best Remain can hope for - please let this be Quebec 1995. There little else pointing their way, so now it's just blind hope.HYUFD said:Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 49 No 51
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_1995
Remain need a game changer, Leave just need to hold up with what is predicted.0 -
I think it is all over. Others will correct/confirm.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Topping, isn't that mostly a London-thing, or has the witchcraft of contactless easytheftpayment spread elsewhere?
I'm pretty sure I used it to buy a coffee in Costa in the midlands recently.0 -
Yes - they need to insult even harder!SeanT said:
Mine too for the most part, except for the most ardent, who spent the early weeks sneering and chortling (ahem) and are now suddenly abashed and contrite and begging people they had previously insulted to vote REMAIN, nonetheless.AlastairMeeks said:Am I the only person whose family and friends by and large have the good taste not to inflict their views on the referendum on others on Facebook?
A lesson, there.0 -
@SeanT That's why I keep my political thoughts for here. That way I have no need to feel abashed or contrite.
Most of my friends and family have no real idea of my parallel existence here. Just as well all round, I'd say.0 -
My gut tells me it is the difference between what people were told in 1975 and where we have ended up that is driving a lot of the oldies irritation with the EUbrokenwheel said:
Except the UK is not Quebec. We historically have been a sovereign nation, unlike Quebec, especially in the eyes of older voters.HYUFD said:Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 51 No 49
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_19950 -
The hardcore already decideds are clearly for Leave, that is why Leave has a lead in some polls, however the yet to make up their minds may still waver in the polling booth which would be enough for RemainDanny565 said:ANECDOTE ALERT
There was actually a lot of chatter about the referendum from customers in the shop I work at today. Opinion seemed more split between Remain and Leave than I would've expected, though Leave still seeming to have the edge.0 -
Very strong vox pop for Leave on news. Sums up Remain's problems 'I'm voting leave because I'm proud in my country.'0
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Even though I am a foot soldier for the Tories (and to a lesser extent, for Leave) you would have no idea of my politics from my Facebook page....kle4 said:
Hard to say - there will be people here, myself for one, not on Facebook, so thankfully wouldn't know if their friends and family have been so cruel.AlastairMeeks said:Am I the only person whose family and friends by and large have the good taste not to inflict their views on the referendum on others on Facebook?
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People still use Facebook? I stopped using it when my mum signed up. I remember the good old days when it was for only uni students.AlastairMeeks said:Am I the only person whose family and friends by and large have the good taste not to inflict their views on the referendum on others on Facebook?
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I've found Remainers will air their views quite publicly, as though they assume everyone in the vicinity is of the same mind. Leavers are more likely to keep it to themselves.SeanT said:
Mine too for the most part, except for the most ardent, who spent the early weeks sneering and chortling (ahem) and are now suddenly abashed and contrite and begging people they had previously insulted to vote REMAIN, nonetheless.AlastairMeeks said:Am I the only person whose family and friends by and large have the good taste not to inflict their views on the referendum on others on Facebook?
A lesson, there.
Similar to a Left v Right, Labour v Tory dynamic. There are definitely shy Leavers.0 -
undecideds won't voteHYUFD said:
Almost no poll has shown Leave above 50% with undecideds included, where the undecideds go remains pivotalkle4 said:
The best Remain can hope for - please let this be Quebec 1995. There little else pointing their way, so now it's just blind hope.HYUFD said:Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 49 No 51
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_19950 -
Stopped reading when I read 'Norway'.Pulpstar said:@AndyJS; @Fenster Here is my friend's post (Shared alot) on Brexit:
Some of you will vote 'leave' tomorrow and have just kept quiet about it. That's fine, it's up to you.
But please, remember this vote will affect you, your children and your grandchildren, and more importantly mine! This is not something we can ‘vote out’ in a few years’ time. It’s permanent.
At this point you’ve heard the facts. You’re probably sick of facts and won’t be convinced to vote Remain by any more. So if you want to vote for 'leave', please don’t so much fact-check, as reality check: look carefully at the two sides:
By voting Leave, you are going against the opinion of almost all Britain’s, if not the world’s, scientists, legal experts, business leaders, economists, and most of our politicians. This is not a conspiratorial blob; it is a group disparate individuals and organization across all professional and academic disciplines, often with opposing ideological views, but all agreeing that the UK is stronger in the EU.
You are ignoring the problems countries, such as Norway, have in terms of legislation and sovereignty: i.e. obeying the rules without a chance to set them.
You are going against the opinion of all our friends, partners and allies around the world from the USA to India to Japan. You are even ignored the Chinese government when they say the UK's world standing will be diminished outside the EU.
But, by voting Leave, you are listening to Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump.
You are listening to the campaigners promising a great economic future, yet the sectors that they claim will benefit most from Brexit don’t agree. Think about that. They claim business will boom; business does not agree.
You are listening to the call to stick two fingers up to the pampered elites... by listening to the rallying cry of the millionaires Borris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Paul Dacre and Rupert Murdoch. The latter being on record as saying he hates the EU because they don’t listen to *him*. I’ve heard many Leave voters say “experts” have vested interests in the EU, what do the Brexit-er’s have?
And yes, while I am not implying anything about you personally, it has to be said you are listening to, or at least on the side of, a section of society that believes 'foreigners' are the cause of all our ills.
Indeed, as a friend of mine pointed out, on social media “out” videos tend to be by bloggers, “in” videos by professors of economics or law; while Remain have a cornucopia of prominent supporters for TV and radio interviews, Brexit have the same two or three. At some point, the asymmetry in experts and arguments must suggest ‘both sides have their points’ is simply not a credible idea.0 -
Thats why Facebook owns Instagram. Youngsters on the cool platform, oldies with the dosh on Facebook.MP_SE said:
People still use Facebook? I stopped using it when my mum signed up. I remember the good old days when it was for only uni students.AlastairMeeks said:Am I the only person whose family and friends by and large have the good taste not to inflict their views on the referendum on others on Facebook?
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You mean billionaire US uni students?MP_SE said:
People still use Facebook? I stopped using it when my mum signed up. I remember the good old days when it was for only uni students.AlastairMeeks said:Am I the only person whose family and friends by and large have the good taste not to inflict their views on the referendum on others on Facebook?
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As someone who lived in Quebec, that is nonsense. Ireland is much, much closer culturally to the rest of the UK than Quebec is to the rest of Canada.HYUFD said:
We will still be a sovereign nation In or Out, the UK will not even be in the Eurozone and Quebec had more cultural differences with the rest of Canada than the UK does with say EU member Irelandbrokenwheel said:
Except the UK is not Quebec. We historically have been a sovereign nation, unlike Quebec, especially in the eyes of older voters.HYUFD said:Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 51 No 49
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_1995
Quebec is more of a country than the UK. For example, Quebec -- not Canada --- controls immigration into Quebec, which helps keep the province Francophone.
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OR...it could be like some of those famous LibDem by-election wins in very safe Tory seats, where there was a feeling that they could be in with a shout, but the resulting scale of their win is just "where the fuck did that come from???"HYUFD said:
The hardcore already decideds are clearly for Leave, that is why Leave has a lead in some polls, however the yet to make up their minds may still waver in the polling booth which would be enough for RemainDanny565 said:ANECDOTE ALERT
There was actually a lot of chatter about the referendum from customers in the shop I work at today. Opinion seemed more split between Remain and Leave than I would've expected, though Leave still seeming to have the edge.0 -
Undecideds are not won't votes, they are a seperate category and it was undecideds who determined Quebec's referendumeek said:
undecideds won't voteHYUFD said:
Almost no poll has shown Leave above 50% with undecideds included, where the undecideds go remains pivotalkle4 said:
The best Remain can hope for - please let this be Quebec 1995. There little else pointing their way, so now it's just blind hope.HYUFD said:Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 49 No 51
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_19950 -
Yup, no swing back - just DKs breaking more heavily for the status quo.HYUFD said:Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 49 No 51
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_19950 -
Even those saying they are 10/10 certain to vote?eek said:
undecideds won't voteHYUFD said:
Almost no poll has shown Leave above 50% with undecideds included, where the undecideds go remains pivotalkle4 said:
The best Remain can hope for - please let this be Quebec 1995. There little else pointing their way, so now it's just blind hope.HYUFD said:Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 49 No 51
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_19950 -
I've been revealing my political interest in stages - it's like coming out as a pervert gradually to try to lessen the pushback. (I assume)AlastairMeeks said:@SeanT That's why I keep my political thoughts for here. That way I have no need to feel abashed or contrite.
Most of my friends and family have no real idea of my parallel existence here. Just as well all round, I'd say.
'You created your own spreadsheet for political results? Ookay *backs away*'0 -
Yep.. If you haven't made you mind up yet I really doubt you are going to...Alistair said:
Even those saying they are 10/10 certain to vote?eek said:
undecideds won't voteHYUFD said:
Almost no poll has shown Leave above 50% with undecideds included, where the undecideds go remains pivotalkle4 said:
The best Remain can hope for - please let this be Quebec 1995. There little else pointing their way, so now it's just blind hope.HYUFD said:Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 49 No 51
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_19950 -
I didn't bother reading when I saw the length of it - and pretty well any Leaver would do the same. It is a D- in PR and an E in advertising - no punch.MP_SE said:
Stopped reading when I read 'Norway'.Pulpstar said:@AndyJS; @Fenster Here is my friend's post (Shared alot) on Brexit:
Some of you will vote 'leave' tomorrow and have just kept quiet about it. That's fine, it's up to you.
But please, remember this vote will affect you, your children and your grandchildren, and more importantly mine! This is not something we can ‘vote out’ in a few years’ time. It’s permanent.
At this point you’ve heard the facts. You’re probably sick of facts and won’t be convinced to vote Remain by any more. So if you want to vote for 'leave', please don’t so much fact-check, as reality check: look carefully at the two sides:
By voting Leave, you are going against the opinion of almost all Britain’s, if not the world’s, scientists, legal experts, business leaders, economists, and most of our politicians. This is not a conspiratorial blob; it is a group disparate individuals and organization across all professional and academic disciplines, often with opposing ideological views, but all agreeing that the UK is stronger in the EU.
You are ignoring the problems countries, such as Norway, have in terms of legislation and sovereignty: i.e. obeying the rules without a chance to set them.
You are going against the opinion of all our friends, partners and allies around the world from the USA to India to Japan. You are even ignored the Chinese government when they say the UK's world standing will be diminished outside the EU.
But, by voting Leave, you are listening to Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump.
You are listening to the campaigners promising a great economic future, yet the sectors that they claim will benefit most from Brexit don’t agree. Think about that. They claim business will boom; business does not agree.
You are listening to the call to stick two fingers up to the pampered elites... by listening to the rallying cry of the millionaires Borris Johnson, Nigel Farage, Paul Dacre and Rupert Murdoch. The latter being on record as saying he hates the EU because they don’t listen to *him*. I’ve heard many Leave voters say “experts” have vested interests in the EU, what do the Brexit-er’s have?
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Betfair £48million matched0
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We have had two polls in the last 2 days with Remain ahead, ORB and Survation, Opinium today had Leave ahead by 1%, apart from TNS Remain are doing better than Yes were at this stage in Quebec in most polls and 2 more tonight. A majority of French Quebecois voted for independence but not quite enough. England may well vote Leave but not by enough to overcome the more europhile Celtskle4 said:
I cannot believe that they will go as decisively for Remain as they did in Quebec in 1995. They went with their current country at the end of the day, that's not the case here, it is going with the EU - clearly any undecideds now are not super fans of the EU or they'd be Remainers, so they're at best going to be reluctant Remainers, and given that, and the antipathy toward the EU, even if a majority of them go for Remain, I don't think it will be enough.HYUFD said:
Almost no poll has shown Leave above 50% with undecideds included, where the undecideds go remains pivotalkle4 said:
The best Remain can hope for - please let this be Quebec 1995. There little else pointing their way, so now it's just blind hope.HYUFD said:Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 49 No 51
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_1995
Remain need a game changer, Leave just need to hold up with what is predicted.0 -
Yes you only have to listen to the various voxpops who interview plenty of undecideds and they sure as hell are going to vote.HYUFD said:
Undecideds are not won't votes, they are a seperate category and it was undecideds who determined Quebec's referendumeek said:
undecideds won't voteHYUFD said:
Almost no poll has shown Leave above 50% with undecideds included, where the undecideds go remains pivotalkle4 said:
The best Remain can hope for - please let this be Quebec 1995. There little else pointing their way, so now it's just blind hope.HYUFD said:Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 49 No 51
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_1995
Albeit they have no idea who to vote for.
I mean if you have come this far, listened even vaguely to the arguments, which you can't have avoided, and are undecided, that to me says: Remain.
If it's immigration, you would instantly have welcomed the referendum as a chance to vote for fewer foreigners; if it's sovereignty, you would instantly have welcomed the referendum as a chance to have UK-only kettle specifications.
If either of these things are "meh" then you are voting Remain.0 -
Nothing different to what we've heard from the Remain campaign for months. Right down to Putin.Pulpstar said:Didn't fit into 1 post.
We'll get EEA-EFTA if it's a narrow Leave vote and I'd be very happy with that.0 -
Orrrrrrrr they are shy status quo, like SindyRef and Quebec ref.eek said:
Yep.. If you haven't made you mind up yet I really doubt you are going to...Alistair said:
Even those saying they are 10/10 certain to vote?eek said:
undecideds won't voteHYUFD said:
Almost no poll has shown Leave above 50% with undecideds included, where the undecideds go remains pivotalkle4 said:
The best Remain can hope for - please let this be Quebec 1995. There little else pointing their way, so now it's just blind hope.HYUFD said:Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 49 No 51
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_19950 -
Some may regard voting as a duty and turnout, in which case even if at seeming random they'll vote for someone. But breaking heavily for the status quo in quebec is not the same as breaking for the 'status quo' here, and Remain may need it too.eek said:
Yep.. If you haven't made you mind up yet I really doubt you are going to...Alistair said:
Even those saying they are 10/10 certain to vote?eek said:
undecideds won't voteHYUFD said:
Almost no poll has shown Leave above 50% with undecideds included, where the undecideds go remains pivotalkle4 said:
The best Remain can hope for - please let this be Quebec 1995. There little else pointing their way, so now it's just blind hope.HYUFD said:Final Quebec polls 1995
Leger Yes 47 No 41
SOM Yes 46 No 40
Angus Reid Yes 48 No 44
CROP Yes 44 No 43
Gallup Yes 39 No 43
Createc Yes 43 No 49
LePage Yes 45 No 42
Result Yes 49 No 51
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quebec_referendum,_19950 -
Mine too.Pulpstar said:I'll be honest my Facebook is getting quite apoplectic about the prospect of Brexit.
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@Casino_Royale
'We'll get EEA-EFTA if it's a narrow Leave vote and I'd be very happy with that.'
Me too,best of both worlds.
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If Remain lose it is because the PM and Osborne's dire predictions were so ridiculous that no one took them seriously. Perhaps if they were more realistic with the downsides they would have got a fairer hearing. I mean ww3 and global brexit recession. C'mon really? No one believes that.0
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Shy leavers? the people in my office are not shy about voting leave whatsoeverKentRising said:
I've found Remainers will air their views quite publicly, as though they assume everyone in the vicinity is of the same mind. Leavers are more likely to keep it to themselves.SeanT said:
Mine too for the most part, except for the most ardent, who spent the early weeks sneering and chortling (ahem) and are now suddenly abashed and contrite and begging people they had previously insulted to vote REMAIN, nonetheless.AlastairMeeks said:Am I the only person whose family and friends by and large have the good taste not to inflict their views on the referendum on others on Facebook?
A lesson, there.
Similar to a Left v Right, Labour v Tory dynamic. There are definitely shy Leavers.0 -
1200 posts on this thread...guess I'm doomed never to know what OGH predicted!0
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To be fair when you have a former education secretary saying "don't listen to experts" I see why people are getting angry.Casino_Royale said:
Mine too.Pulpstar said:I'll be honest my Facebook is getting quite apoplectic about the prospect of Brexit.
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Which REMAIN has only made worse by spending weeks running the country down and making out we're some pathetic waste of space that owe's everything we have to the EU.Chameleon said:Very strong vox pop for Leave on news. Sums up Remain's problems 'I'm voting leave because I'm proud in my country.'
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Even the Sky economics guy was mocking them today. Saying basically they took the worst parts of the worst parts of the various models and extrapolated, rather than say there a risk of a short term hit.nunu said:If Remain lose it is because the PM and Osborne's dire predictions were so ridiculous that no one took them seriously. Perhaps if they were more realistic with the downsides they would have got a fairer hearing. I mean ww3 and global brexit recession. C'mon really? No one believes that.
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The voters will want the blood of anyone who agrees to that after a campaign fought on ending free movement. Personally it would be my preferred leave scenario too but I can't see it being politically possible.Casino_Royale said:
Nothing different to what we've heard from the Remain campaign for months. Right down to Putin.Pulpstar said:Didn't fit into 1 post.
We'll get EEA-EFTA if it's a narrow Leave vote and I'd be very happy with that.
Post Brexit domestic politics will be ugly indeed and I fear a return to political violence.
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Narrow REMAIN win.MarqueeMark said:1200 posts on this thread...guess I'm doomed never to know what OGH predicted!
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For anyone who has been around a few years Leave is the status quo.
ie remain a soverign independent state and stop those politicians who have been signing sovereignty abolishing treaties since Maastrict ,without consulting us, from selling our sovereign independence down the river.0 -
Mine is relatively calm, the odd Op-Ed article shared here and there, some Daily Mash brexit gag articles. One or two 'declaring' for Remain, but not going on about it.Casino_Royale said:
Mine too.Pulpstar said:I'll be honest my Facebook is getting quite apoplectic about the prospect of Brexit.
Demographic is 25-50, friends, colleagues, mostly MC, predominantly white. Range of voting intentions. Spread geographically across the UK. My only very right wing Tory friend, who started off as a full on Brexiter, is now undecided, which is not like him, but he works in the City.
I must admit that the sanctimonious tone of some of the Remainers, particularly the Twitter celebs, is painful and full of class-ridden snobbery. As a soft Remain, it makes me cringe.
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Just returned from handing out leaflets at my local station in Lewisham. Obviously lots of support for Remain. One interesting titbit i picked up though: apparently national registration is up 7% nationally but in Lewisham it is up 20%!!!0
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Ta!GIN1138 said:
Narrow REMAIN win.MarqueeMark said:1200 posts on this thread...guess I'm doomed never to know what OGH predicted!
EDIT: narrow as in England votes Leave narrow?0 -
Why do I get the feeling Scottish turnout might be ... low.0
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The emergency brake (a real one) will be pulled immediately. As long as a reduction in net numbers is demonstrable by GE2020, it should be ok.williamglenn said:
The voters will want the blood of anyone who agrees to that after a campaign fought on ending free movement. Personally it would be my preferred leave scenario too but I can't see it being politically possible.Casino_Royale said:
Nothing different to what we've heard from the Remain campaign for months. Right down to Putin.Pulpstar said:Didn't fit into 1 post.
We'll get EEA-EFTA if it's a narrow Leave vote and I'd be very happy with that.
Post Brexit domestic politics will be ugly indeed and I fear a return to political violence.0 -
For anyone under 40/50 the EU is the status quo, they do not remember a time we were not in the EEC/EC/EU. Hence under 50s for RemainPaul_Bedfordshire said:For anyone who has been around a few years Leave is the status quo ie remain a soverign independent state and stop those politicians who have been signing sovereignty abolishing treaties since Maastrict from selling our sovereign independence down the river.
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I’ll go with all that. I can’t see a sensible, as opposed to a romantic, case for voting Leave. Doing so will means years of uncertaintity, doubt andf confusion.Pulpstar said:But, more importantly, consider this.
On the 24th, it will almost be business as usual. This is no glorious revolution; there will be no change to UK domestic politics once the hang-over has worn off. So, do you trust that the Government, based on their behaviour in the last 6 years, will do the following:
1) Spend the money we now pay into the EU on public services, or use it for austerity and tax cuts for the mega-rich?
2) Spend the money that would come back through EU regional development funds in the same regions, or to focus all cash on London and/or areas they want win in 2020. i.e. business as usual?
3) Protect the hard-won workers’ rights, which will legally have to be rewritten in some form because most legislation for the past 30+years is connected to the EU, from the ever more rapacious demands of the mega-rich?
4) Negotiate deals with other countries, and especially the USA, that will benefit the citizens of the UK, rather than ones that will support their personal neo-liberal ideology?
Put it simply, Brexit have promised leaving the EU will somehow cure our problems with housing, with schools, with wages and with the NHS. Has this government, and have the Tories inside Brexit especially, done or said anything in the last decade to make you think that solving these problems is on their agenda? Because they haven't and they aren't.
If you are voting 'No' based on any of these issues, you will not get what you want.
In the last 20years or so we’ve fetishized the idea of ‘going it alone’, but you’re not curating a gap-year Tumblr account or saving your kidnap-prone daughter. It’s a romantic idea, and I know voting for what 'feels right' rather than 'what makes logical sense' has an appeal. But you're not ordering an extra slice of cake. No, you're voting in the most crucial and permanent vote we'll probably ever take part in.
Only vote 'Leave' if you can honestly look at yourself in the mirror and say you have seriously considered all the evidence available, both fact-checked and reality-checked it, and can firmly say to have come to a logical conclusion. '0 -
I'm having a reddit conversion along these lines. I'm selling Labour Leave, in return I'm being called a racist idiot.Pulpstar said:
And yes, while I am not implying anything about you personally, it has to be said you are listening to, or at least on the side of, a section of society that believes 'foreigners' are the cause of all our ills.
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Stopped reading when I read 'Norway'.
I stopped at 'But please, remember this vote will affect you, your children and your grandchildren, and more importantly mine!' - how patronising.0 -
Vote early - vote often.London said:Just returned from handing out leaflets at my local station in Lewisham. Obviously lots of support for Remain. One interesting titbit i picked up though: apparently national registration is up 7% nationally but in Lewisham it is up 20%!!!
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.kle4 said:
I've been revealing my political interest in stages - it's like coming out as a pervert gradually to try to lessen the pushback. (I assume)AlastairMeeks said:@SeanT That's why I keep my political thoughts for here. That way I have no need to feel abashed or contrite.
Most of my friends and family have no real idea of my parallel existence here. Just as well all round, I'd say.
'You created your own spreadsheet for political results? Ookay *backs away*' I had a very similar experience when discussing weight training with a friend who considered himself a bit of an expert. "You keep a record of everything? And track it? Using Excel? With predictive formulas?" 0 -
The key to debate is compromise - you should ask if you can be merely an idiot or merely a racist.El_Dave said:
I'm having a reddit conversion along these lines. I'm selling Labour Leave, in return I'm being called a racist idiot.Pulpstar said:
And yes, while I am not implying anything about you personally, it has to be said you are listening to, or at least on the side of, a section of society that believes 'foreigners' are the cause of all our ills.0 -
@El_Dave; @OldkingCole Not my words, my friend's.0
