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What reason could we have for not accepting it?! Not liking the potential reason people may have used to sway their vote? I don't care about immigration but plan to vote Leave, should I not accept a Leave win because I don't agree with people using immigration as a basis to vote Leave?MarkHopkins said:SeanT said:
I was right. 5 point swing. Add in status quo swing back and remain will win. It's a tragic way to decide a referendum. Simply awful.MaxPB said:
Meh, that's in the immediate aftermath with huge media coverage. I don't think it will change the picture for Thursday.TheScreamingEagles said:Survation phone poll conducted on Friday and Saturday,
Remain 45% (+3) Leave 42% (-3)
IF that happens (still uncertain), why should anyone on the Leave side accept the result?
Reasons for people voting were discussed earlier, and it bears repeating - people vote for stupid reasons sometimes, or based on misconceptions, faulty assumptions and ignorance. Their votes still count.
I'm not convinced by this poll either, it's not that massive a swing, and I expect Leave to win, if more narrowly than before, but if people vote Remain, it doesn't matter what decided it for them.0 -
Is Juncker still coming over to dispense his wisdom?0
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I still think Breaking Bad was slightly better than The Sopranos, but loved both showstyson said:
Tic tac.....the greatest episode of TV ever.TheScreamingEagles said:
Don't stop believin' in DaveHertsmere_Pubgoer said:
Cameron's theory of party unity is based on WWTSD What Would Tony Soprano Do?stodge said:
It's ironic how some people are now looking back on the Coalition years with a degree of nostalgia.BenedictWhite said:
Oh how us Eurosceptic Tories laughed and Laughed...
I was having a chat with Mr Soames in 2010 just after the coalition was formed at a celebration.
I said the LDs would be arriving to the next parliament in a mini bus at best and he assured me they would be fine... I assured him they wouldn't.
I feel sorry for them because they did the right thing, but you can't buck reality.
I'm probably now as detached from the party as I've ever been but I can't see the shape of politics past Thursday. It's not going to be easy for Conservatives to put the genie back in the bottle - too much has been said which will be remembered. Cameron may try to play at being all the king's horses and all the king's men but I doubt he can put the Humpty Dumpty party back together again.
(A true Sopranos fan will get that reference)
What a way to.......??? Just showing I'm a Sopranobeliever0 -
Which is why so many people move to Kent and Bucks and over counties that still have the grammar system in order to have the opportunity for their kids to go to grammars. Grammars - loved by parents, hated by the ideologues, including the elite who send their own kids to private schools.TheScreamingEagles said:
Margaret Thatcher realised they didn't help, so she abolished or merged many of them and put comprehensives in their place.BenedictWhite said:
Ah grammar schools! The way for the working classes to better themselves... What ever happened to them?HYUFD said:
Jo Cox came from a working class background and got herself to grammar school and Cambridge and spent part of her summers working in a factory to pay for her studies so your mum was wrong on her prejudices anyway!Lowlander said:
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.0 -
Yep. Same for Lincolnshire.KentRising said:
Which is why so many people move to Kent and Bucks and over counties that still have the grammar system in order to have the opportunity for their kids to go to grammars. Grammars - loved by parents, hated by the ideologues, including the elite who send their own kids to private schools.TheScreamingEagles said:
Margaret Thatcher realised they didn't help, so she abolished or merged many of them and put comprehensives in their place.BenedictWhite said:
Ah grammar schools! The way for the working classes to better themselves... What ever happened to them?HYUFD said:
Jo Cox came from a working class background and got herself to grammar school and Cambridge and spent part of her summers working in a factory to pay for her studies so your mum was wrong on her prejudices anyway!Lowlander said:
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.0 -
Margins are a fraction of a penny in some cases (surprised the euro denominated cash equity trading volumes numbers are that high but thats not a number I track)TOPPING said:
Still not sure what that meansCharles said:
There's no money in trading cash equities.TOPPING said:
What is the proportion of funds under management for hedge funds and institutional asset managers?MaxPB said:
Prime brokerages, they will self clear securities trades.TOPPING said:
First, what does a synthetic clearing house mean? Second, it regulates us when we trade european stocks.
And what? Stock trades are bread and butter. It's derivatives trading that matters, I struggle to see how the City would continue to come under EU regulations, then again I'm not in regulations, yet the experts in our reports specifically outlined how being outside of EU regulations for derivatives would be a net gain for the City, again a reason why the Hedge funds back Leave.
What do you mean "stock trades are bread and butter"?
Europe trading = approx EUR70bn/day.
given the high fixed cost of a cash equity desk and the trend towards electronic trading it's brutally competitive and chronically unprofitable unless you are really big in a specific product.
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SeanT said:
My mum's not going to do a Google search. I'm not agreeing with some peoples perception, just reporting on it.nunu said:
Here you go. Took me 20 seconds on Google. You might disagree with her opinions but this, to my mind, is exactly the sort of person we need in politics.SeanT said:
What! I'm talking about the average voter, they won't know more about her than I do.nunu said:
Well do some more bloody research before forming an opinion.HYUFD said:
I watch news a lot and all I heard she worked overseas for charities. A lot of people feel like charities like Oxfarm have become money making organizations, rightly or wrongly.Lowlander said:
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a dtyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
Jo Cox came from a working class background and got herself to grammar school and Cambridge and spent part of her summers working in a factory to pay for her studies so your mum was wrong on her prejudices anyway!
"Cox was born on 22 June 1974 in Batley, West Yorkshire, England, and raised in Heckmondwike. Her mother was a school secretary while her father worked in a toothpaste and hairspray factory.[7] She was educated at Heckmondwike Grammar School, a state grammar school, where she was head girl. During summers, she worked packing toothpaste.[7]
Cox studied Social and Political Sciences at Pembroke College, Cambridge, and graduated from the University of Cambridge with a Bachelor of Arts (BA) degree in 1995. She was the first in her family to attend university. She later studied at the London School of Economics.[1][8][9][10][11] She later recalled that her experience at Cambridge, where family pedigrees were viewed as important, "knocked me for about five years".[1]"0 -
A decisive win for REMAIN would be better than a small one.TheScreamingEagles said:I'm still sticking with my prediction of Remain to win by 12%-15%
Would seal our fate forever in the Superstate and we could all begin the process of coming to terms with it (rather than trying to resist the inevitable)0 -
Andrew Lilico might be rivalling Louise Mensch for the twitter idiocy/offensive crown.0
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Except that it appears that we have a lot less grammar educated top politicians and more privately educated ones now.TheScreamingEagles said:
Margaret Thatcher realised they didn't help, so she abolished or merged many of them and put comprehensives in their place.BenedictWhite said:
Ah grammar schools! The way for the working classes to better themselves... What ever happened to them?HYUFD said:
Jo Cox came from a working class background and got herself to grammar school and Cambridge and spent part of her summers working in a factory to pay for her studies so your mum was wrong on her prejudices anyway!Lowlander said:
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.0 -
Mr. Eagles, I've never seen any of either Breaking Bad or The Sopranos.
I'm still waiting for a drama to be made about the Macedonian dynasty of the Eastern Roman Empire.0 -
Both great, really great, but still overrated, in my view. But then I like things with more of a fantasy/sci-fi bent - you can do everything other excellent shows do, but also include cool fantastical things.TheScreamingEagles said:
I still think Breaking Bad was slightly better than The Sopranos, but loved both showstyson said:
Tic tac.....the greatest episode of TV ever.TheScreamingEagles said:
Don't stop believin' in DaveHertsmere_Pubgoer said:
Cameron's theory of party unity is based on WWTSD What Would Tony Soprano Do?stodge said:
It's ironic how some people are now looking back on the Coalition years with a degree of nostalgia.BenedictWhite said:
Oh how us Eurosceptic Tories laughed and Laughed...
I was having a chat with Mr Soames in 2010 just after the coalition was formed at a celebration.
I said the LDs would be arriving to the next parliament in a mini bus at best and he assured me they would be fine... I assured him they wouldn't.
I feel sorry for them because they did the right thing, but you can't buck reality.
I'm probably now as detached from the party as I've ever been but I can't see the shape of politics past Thursday. It's not going to be easy for Conservatives to put the genie back in the bottle - too much has been said which will be remembered. Cameron may try to play at being all the king's horses and all the king's men but I doubt he can put the Humpty Dumpty party back together again.
(A true Sopranos fan will get that reference)
What a way to.......??? Just showing I'm a Sopranobeliever0 -
Stick to your guns, Nunu.0
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The Sunday Telegraph comes out for Leave
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/06/18/we-must-vote-leave-to-create-a-britain-fit-for-the-future/0 -
Sunday Torygraph declares for Leave (because readers).0
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What odds?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm still sticking with my prediction of Remain to win by 12%-15%
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If and its avery big if that this tragedy has had any effect on this poll then its effect will have worn off by ThursdayRazedabode said:GIN1138 said:
Why are pollsters not giving the figures in terms of certainty to vote and excluding Don't Know's now?TheScreamingEagles said:Survation phone poll conducted on Friday and Saturday,
Remain 45% (+3) Leave 42% (-3)
I'd still be careful reading into one poll. Not sure the swing is that significant - I still fully expect a remain win but It will be closeKentRising said:As I forecast, the slender Leave lead has gone. And Leave needed a big lead going into Thursday. It's over, I can see a convincing Remain victory which will get Can and co off scott-free and it'll be business as usual going forward. Thanks to the nut with his homemade gun.
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Until the 10pm YGTheScreamingEagles said:I'm still sticking with my prediction of Remain to win by 12%-15%
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What the referendum has shown, like the IndyRef before it, is that referendums are a really bad idea.
The poison that has been introduced will not quickly disperse.
We live in a representative democracy. If there is unease about the result, either way, at the next GE parties are free to stand on a platform of leaving if we have not.
if there is still a functional Tory party it should not stand on a platform of another referendum
If that means a UKIP majority, so be it.0 -
I believe he's saying the fact that she was murdered does not redeem her in his mother's eyes - and that he found that surprisingalex. said:
"I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy."Lowlander said:
Yes I did mean Remain, I was unable to edit it.logical_song said:
So your nice Christian mum has contempt for someone who was murdered by someone who is reportedly on the same side of the argument as herself. Glad I'm an atheist.Lowlander said:Warning - this post is not a Safe Space.
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
BTW You say 'Leave' in your first sentence, I guess you mean 'Remain'.
She does not have contempt for someone who was murdered. She has contempt for those on the liberal left who have the career path of Jo Cox and if she was aware of Jo Cox before her murder would have felt the same way. The murder is irrelevant to the view of what Jo Cox represents to people like my mother.
.
Perhaps you should have been more careful in your posting if you didn't mean it...0 -
Ko Barclay has given around £500,000 to UKIP. I would have been very surprised if they came out for anything other than Leave.TheScreamingEagles said:The Sunday Telegraph comes out for Leave
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/06/18/we-must-vote-leave-to-create-a-britain-fit-for-the-future/0 -
Margaret Thatcher in 1977:TheScreamingEagles said:
Margaret Thatcher realised they didn't help, so she abolished or merged many of them and put comprehensives in their place.BenedictWhite said:
Ah grammar schools! The way for the working classes to better themselves... What ever happened to them?HYUFD said:
Jo Cox came from a working class background and got herself to grammar school and Cambridge and spent part of her summers working in a factory to pay for her studies so your mum was wrong on her prejudices anyway!Lowlander said:
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.
"People from my sort of background needed Grammar schools to compete with children from privileged homes like Shirley Williams and Anthony Wedgwood Benn."
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While not my preferred outcome, if it is Remain I hope it is that strong - that way no one can complain about the result (credibly) and the only people still in a war will be Tories.TheScreamingEagles said:I'm still sticking with my prediction of Remain to win by 12%-15%
Stunning.TheScreamingEagles said:The Sunday Telegraph comes out for Leave
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/06/18/we-must-vote-leave-to-create-a-britain-fit-for-the-future/0 -
Why do you think the official campaign and its funders are keeping quiet about it?SouthamObserver said:One more thing (!!) - can some Leavers at least understand why the stuff downthread about a deregulated, offshore City frightens the life out of some of us Remainers?
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The crucial Colonel Mustard Sunday Telegraph reader still deciding whether he loathes or just hates the EU!TheScreamingEagles said:The Sunday Telegraph comes out for Leave
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2016/06/18/we-must-vote-leave-to-create-a-britain-fit-for-the-future/0 -
Mr. Gin, Rome's everlasting success was once deemed inevitable.
The EU's going to fall. It's a question of when. The longer it is, the more things will have integrated, and the worse the impact will be. Right now, it'd lead to economic problems and perhaps civil strife.
In a decade or two, we could be looking at small scale military action.
A decade or two after that...
A vote to Remain for fear of the probable short term pain is a vote to embrace the agony of later years. I suspect it'll happen in my lifetime.0 -
BMG the gold standardbigjohnowls said:
Until the 10pm YGTheScreamingEagles said:I'm still sticking with my prediction of Remain to win by 12%-15%
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One thing I'm certain of is that if Remain win, which looks likely, it will not be business as usual. The rift has opened, much like in Scotland with independence, and our EU membership will be a bigger issue in future than it has been in the past. Cameron has not achieved any meaningful reform, his party is split in two, about half the public want out, many troubling EU issues will be back on the table after the referendum, and many within the EU will interpret a Remain vote as a vote for more Europe.KentRising said:As I forecast, the slender Leave lead has gone. And Leave needed a big lead going into Thursday. It's over, I can see a convincing Remain victory which will get Can and co off scott-free and it'll be business as usual going forward. Thanks to the nut with his homemade gun.
I think our leaving the EU is more a matter of when now than if.
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Aren't we supposed to have a referendum anytime there is a new transfer of power to the EU?Scott_P said:What the referendum has shown, like the IndyRef before it, is that referendums are a really bad idea.
The poison that has been introduced will not quickly disperse.
We live in a representative democracy. If there is unease about the result, either way, at the next GE parties are free to stand on a platform of leaving if we have not.
if there is still a functional Tory party it should not stand on a platform of another referendum
If that means a UKIP majority, so be it.
Don't see that policy lasting much longer than 24th June do you?
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Don't back track on this one seanT. Lowlander's comments were utterly vile, and something that should not have been aired. Not because I don't believe own free speech, but because it is just upsetting for someone to say that they could hold Jo Cox in contempt after she has been brutally killed.SeanT said:
A fair point. I had just watched the tv coverage of Jo cox's sister making that fine speech, so maybe I was being oversensitive. Unusual for me.viewcode said:
I too was not overimpressed by Lowlander's mum. However, it is usually thought polite not to go up to people and tell them that their mum smells of poo, at least not since primary school. Lowlander was accurately reporting voting-relevant information, which for this site is the exception. The fact that it was unpleasant information is not relevant. You should have thanked him, not excoriated his mother, regardless of how much you thought she deserved it.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
"Ken" who posted here last week was a somewhat grating fellow who referred to Remanians as "Federasts" and other similar witticisms. But he reported accurately and at length his experiences as a LEAVE campaigner in Glasgow and I was pleased that he took the time to do so, and I hope he will do so again. We spend so much time arguing about stuff we can ill afford to reject reports from the front line when they fall in our laps.
Also as I'm in Italy I'm not getting the apparently annoying 24/7 Diana stuff, at all.
It's all very sad. Whatever one's opinions. Whoever wins now, their victory will be tainted. And undermined my suspicion. And so this issue won't go away, AT ALL
The fact that it drew some of the usual characters out of the ether- Plato, MikeM, etc.... just made it worse.
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Democracy is a bad idea? We can have BOTH direct and representative democracy. Very many of the arguments against one form often apply to the other.Scott_P said:What the referendum has shown, like the IndyRef before it, is that referendums are a really bad idea.
The poison that has been introduced will not quickly disperse.
We live in a representative democracy. If there is unease about the result, either way, at the next GE parties are free to stand on a platform of leaving if we have not.
if there is still a functional Tory party it should not stand on a platform of another referendum
If that means a UKIP majority, so be it.0 -
Correct.SeanT said:
A fair point. I had just watched the tv coverage of Jo cox's sister making that fine speech, so maybe I was being oversensitive. Unusual for me.viewcode said:
I too was not overimpressed by Lowlander's mum. However, it is usually thought polite not to go up to people and tell them that their mum smells of poo, at least not since primary school. Lowlander was accurately reporting voting-relevant information, which for this site is the exception. The fact that it was unpleasant information is not relevant. You should have thanked him, not excoriated his mother, regardless of how much you thought she deserved it.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
"Ken" who posted here last week was a somewhat grating fellow who referred to Remanians as "Federasts" and other similar witticisms. But he reported accurately and at length his experiences as a LEAVE campaigner in Glasgow and I was pleased that he took the time to do so, and I hope he will do so again. We spend so much time arguing about stuff we can ill afford to reject reports from the front line when they fall in our laps.
Also as I'm in Italy I'm not getting the apparently annoying 24/7 Diana stuff, at all.
It's all very sad. Whatever one's opinions. Whoever wins now, their victory will be tainted. And undermined my suspicion. And so this issue won't go away, AT ALL0 -
The Sunil on Sunday comes out for LEAVE:
Oh, I already have, haven't I?
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Why do you think being regulated closer to the coal face is worse than being regulated from farther away?SouthamObserver said:One more thing (!!) - can some Leavers at least understand why the stuff downthread about a deregulated, offshore City frightens the life out of some of us Remainers?
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TSE's prediction corresponds to the 55% to 60% Remain band on Betfair. Avaliable to back at 4.3 or Lay at 4.5chestnut said:
What odds?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm still sticking with my prediction of Remain to win by 12%-15%
Sounds a bit low to me.0 -
Unless we join the eurozone we will never be in the Superstate and the only chance of that is a big Remain win, even on tonight's poll probably gone now as a possibilityGIN1138 said:
A decisive win for REMAIN would be better than a small one.TheScreamingEagles said:I'm still sticking with my prediction of Remain to win by 12%-15%
Would seal our fate forever in the Superstate and we could all begin the process of coming to terms with it (rather than trying to resist the inevitable)0 -
I must have misread your earlier post statingnunu said:
My mum's not going to do a Google search. I'm not agreeing with some peoples perception, just reporting on it.SeanT said:
Here you go. Took me 20 seconds on Google. You might disagree with her opinions but this, to my mind, is exactly the sort of person we need in politics.nunu said:
What! I'm talking about the average voter, they won't know more about her than I do.
"Cox was born on 22 June 1974 in Batley, West Yorkshire, England, and raised in Heckmondwike. Her mother was a school secretary while her father worked in a toothpaste and hairspray factory.[7] She was educated at Heckmondwike Grammar School, a state grammar school, where she was head girl. During summers, she worked packing toothpaste.[7]
Cox studied Social and Political Sciences at Pembroke College, Cambridge, and graduated from the University of Cambridge with a Bachelor of Arts (BA) degree in 1995. She was the first in her family to attend university. She later studied at the London School of Economics.[1][8][9][10][11] She later recalled that her experience at Cambridge, where family pedigrees were viewed as important, "knocked me for about five years".[1]"
"your mum's views are similar to mine"...
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Like on the EU, Thatcher said one thing, and did anotherSunil_Prasannan said:
Margaret Thatcher in 1977:TheScreamingEagles said:
Margaret Thatcher realised they didn't help, so she abolished or merged many of them and put comprehensives in their place.BenedictWhite said:
Ah grammar schools! The way for the working classes to better themselves... What ever happened to them?HYUFD said:
Jo Cox came from a working class background and got herself to grammar school and Cambridge and spent part of her summers working in a factory to pay for her studies so your mum was wrong on her prejudices anyway!Lowlander said:
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.
"People from my sort of background needed Grammar schools to compete with children from privileged homes like Shirley Williams and Anthony Wedgwood Benn."
Margaret Thatcher holds the prize as the secretary of state who closed or merged the most grammar schools for a comprehensive alternative.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/education-the-end-of-the-grammar-school-1179844.html0 -
Mr. kle4, dragons pave the way to victory.
As do frisky elves.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Adventures-Edric-Hero-Hornska-Book-ebook/dp/B01DOSP9ZK0 -
The single best thing that ever happened to me - apart from being born to my extraordinary parents - was to go to the last ILEA grammar school. There were expectations. You were expected to go to university. I was exceptionally lucky.TheScreamingEagles said:
Margaret Thatcher realised they didn't help, so she abolished or merged many of them and put comprehensives in their place.BenedictWhite said:
Ah grammar schools! The way for the working classes to better themselves... What ever happened to them?HYUFD said:
Jo Cox came from a working class background and got herself to grammar school and Cambridge and spent part of her summers working in a factory to pay for her studies so your mum was wrong on her prejudices anyway!Lowlander said:
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.
0 -
Just remember the Survation poll was run at peak emotion after the murder (as well as peak 'Britain First' outburst - but see how Mair pled) - we have 5 days for things to settle down.0
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It's not a 7-2 shot. Certainly longer.foxinsoxuk said:
TSE's prediction corresponds to the 55% to 60% Remain band on Betfair. Avaliable to back at 4.3 or Lay at 4.5chestnut said:
What odds?TheScreamingEagles said:I'm still sticking with my prediction of Remain to win by 12%-15%
Sounds a bit low to me.0 -
Betfair, Leave at 3 again0
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We can have direct democracy. Our experience of it is division, hatred and violence, with no resolution of the question.Pauly said:Democracy is a bad idea? We can have BOTH direct and representative democracy. Very many of the arguments against one form often apply to the other.
I will be happy with less of that.0 -
TSE was educated privately I believe, the privately educated are often amongst the most staunch supporters of comprehensive as it reduces the competitionKentRising said:
Which is why so many people move to Kent and Bucks and over counties that still have the grammar system in order to have the opportunity for their kids to go to grammars. Grammars - loved by parents, hated by the ideologues, including the elite who send their own kids to private schools.TheScreamingEagles said:
Margaret Thatcher realised they didn't help, so she abolished or merged many of them and put comprehensives in their place.BenedictWhite said:
Ah grammar schools! The way for the working classes to better themselves... What ever happened to them?HYUFD said:
Jo Cox came from a working class background and got herself to grammar school and Cambridge and spent part of her summers working in a factory to pay for her studies so your mum was wrong on her prejudices anyway!Lowlander said:
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.0 -
I think the mistake was not having referenda in getting to where we are now. But I agree that politicians shouldn't offer them when they are not comfortable with one side winning. Cameron only promised this because he wanted to shoot the Ukip fox. As it turned out, he probably didn't need to do it.Scott_P said:What the referendum has shown, like the IndyRef before it, is that referendums are a really bad idea.
The poison that has been introduced will not quickly disperse.
We live in a representative democracy. If there is unease about the result, either way, at the next GE parties are free to stand on a platform of leaving if we have not.
if there is still a functional Tory party it should not stand on a platform of another referendum
If that means a UKIP majority, so be it.0 -
It was actually Edinburgh, I think.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
What was his take on Glesga? Think I missed it.viewcode said:
I too was not overimpressed by Lowlander's mum. However, it is usually thought polite not to go up to people and tell them that their mum smells of poo, at least not since primary school. Lowlander was accurately reporting voting-relevant information, which for this site is the exception. The fact that it was unpleasant information is not relevant. You should have thanked him, not excoriated his mother, regardless of how much you thought she deserved it.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
"Ken" who posted here last week was a somewhat grating fellow who referred to Remanians as "Federasts" and other similar witticisms. But he reported accurately and at length his experiences as a LEAVE campaigner in Glasgow and I was pleased that he took the time to do so, and I hope he will do so again. We spend so much time arguing about stuff we can ill afford to reject reports from the front line when they fall in our laps.0 -
alex. said:
I meant my mum's whoopsnunu said:
I must have misread your earlier post statingSeanT said:nunu said:
My mum's not going to do a Google search. I'm not agreeing with some peoples perception, just reporting on it.SeanT said:
Here you go. Took me 20 seconds on Google. You might disagree with her opinions but this, to my mind, is exactly the sort of person we need in politics.nunu said:
What! I'm talking about the average voter, they won't know more about her than I do.
"Cox was born on 22 June 1974 in Batley, West Yorkshire, England, and raised in Heckmondwike. Her mother was a school secretary while her father worked in a toothpaste and hairspray factory.[7] She was educated at Heckmondwike Grammar School, a state grammar school, where she was head girl. During summers, she worked packing toothpaste.[7]
Cox studied Social and Political Sciences at Pembroke College, Cambridge, and graduated from the University of Cambridge with a Bachelor of Arts (BA) degree in 1995. She was the first in her family to attend university. She later studied at the London School of Economics.[1][8][9][10][11] She later recalled that her experience at Cambridge, where family pedigrees were viewed as important, "knocked me for about five years".[1]"
"your mum's views are similar to mine"...0 -
Yes, without grammar school I'm not sure I'd be doing what I'm doing now. My parents played a big part in it of course, but grammar school made it possible for me to receive an education usually reserved for the middle and upper classes at no cost to my parents who could never have afforded private education for me.SouthamObserver said:
The single best thing that ever happened to me - apart from being born to my extraordinary parents - was to go to the last ILEA grammar school. There were expectations. You were expected to go to university. I was exceptionally lucky.TheScreamingEagles said:
Margaret Thatcher realised they didn't help, so she abolished or merged many of them and put comprehensives in their place.BenedictWhite said:
Ah grammar schools! The way for the working classes to better themselves... What ever happened to them?HYUFD said:
Jo Cox came from a working class background and got herself to grammar school and Cambridge and spent part of her summers working in a factory to pay for her studies so your mum was wrong on her prejudices anyway!Lowlander said:
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.0 -
LOL@Ronaldo...0
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I've said many times, the reason I've done so well out of life was my parents (and grandparents) made a lot of sacrifices so I could attend a private school.SouthamObserver said:
The single best thing that ever happened to me - apart from being born to my extraordinary parents - was to go to the last ILEA grammar school. There were expectations. You were expected to go to university. I was exceptionally lucky.TheScreamingEagles said:
Margaret Thatcher realised they didn't help, so she abolished or merged many of them and put comprehensives in their place.BenedictWhite said:
Ah grammar schools! The way for the working classes to better themselves... What ever happened to them?HYUFD said:
Jo Cox came from a working class background and got herself to grammar school and Cambridge and spent part of her summers working in a factory to pay for her studies so your mum was wrong on her prejudices anyway!Lowlander said:
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.
It was only later in life I appreciated my luck.0 -
So we will continue to sit on the margins with our power and sovereignty seeping away as the Eurozone dominates the EU, subject to all the rules but with no control over them. It is a bleak vision you paint of our future.HYUFD said:
Unless we join the eurozone we will never be in the Superstate and the only chance of that is a big Remain win, even on tonight's poll probably gone now as a possibilityGIN1138 said:
A decisive win for REMAIN would be better than a small one.TheScreamingEagles said:I'm still sticking with my prediction of Remain to win by 12%-15%
Would seal our fate forever in the Superstate and we could all begin the process of coming to terms with it (rather than trying to resist the inevitable)0 -
He will now claim he's "working class Northerner!"HYUFD said:
TSE was educated privately I believe, the privately educated are often amongst the most staunch supporters of comprehensive as it reduces the competitionKentRising said:
Which is why so many people move to Kent and Bucks and over counties that still have the grammar system in order to have the opportunity for their kids to go to grammars. Grammars - loved by parents, hated by the ideologues, including the elite who send their own kids to private schools.TheScreamingEagles said:
Margaret Thatcher realised they didn't help, so she abolished or merged many of them and put comprehensives in their place.BenedictWhite said:
Ah grammar schools! The way for the working classes to better themselves... What ever happened to them?HYUFD said:
Jo Cox came from a working class background and got herself to grammar school and Cambridge and spent part of her summers working in a factory to pay for her studies so your mum was wrong on her prejudices anyway!Lowlander said:
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not. 0 -
No, the problem isn't that we have had too many but not enough.Scott_P said:What the referendum has shown, like the IndyRef before it, is that referendums are a really bad idea.
The poison that has been introduced will not quickly disperse.
We live in a representative democracy. If there is unease about the result, either way, at the next GE parties are free to stand on a platform of leaving if we have not.
if there is still a functional Tory party it should not stand on a platform of another referendum
If that means a UKIP majority, so be it.
The tone of the debate is the issue not the debate itself. It has been filled with nasty vile attacks with people calling others nasty things like little Englanders, making offensive signs at people they disagree with (EG Bob Geldoff mocking fishermen).
If the debate were conducted by 8 year olds rather than 5 year olds the quality would be much better.0 -
Well Gove's just put enormous hostage to fortune in the event of Brexit
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/7442708193842462720 -
Survation is 51-49 Leave pre weighted.0
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Ilford still has a Grammar School, BTW. I went there in the late 80s/early 90s.0
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Mr. Tyndall, quite.
Power and money will continue to flow to Brussels. People will continue to be angered by rates of immigration and being called xenophobic or racist for wanting fewer to be allowed in.
Could be a purple patch for UKIP.0 -
I'm listening to Sam Cooke live at the Harlem Square Club. Side Two is the best 20 minutes of music ever recorded. Look it up.0
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It will come anywayTheScreamingEagles said:Well Gove's just put enormous hostage to fortune in the event of Brexit
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/7442708193842462720 -
Jo Cox went to one in the late eighties and nineties so there are still a few aroundBenedictWhite said:
Ah grammar schools! The way for the working classes to better themselves... What ever happened to them?HYUFD said:
Jo Cox came from a working class background and got herself to grammar school and Cambridge and spent part of her summers working in a factory to pay for her studies so your mum was wrong on her prejudices anyway!Lowlander said:
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.0 -
Oh, I think I read that. Sorry, its hard to type through the tears of laughter at the utter ineptitude of Cristiano Ronaldo this evening. Pleasing.Theuniondivvie said:
It was actually Edinburgh, I think.AramintaMoonbeamQC said:
What was his take on Glesga? Think I missed it.viewcode said:
I too was not overimpressed by Lowlander's mum. However, it is usually thought polite not to go up to people and tell them that their mum smells of poo, at least not since primary school. Lowlander was accurately reporting voting-relevant information, which for this site is the exception. The fact that it was unpleasant information is not relevant. You should have thanked him, not excoriated his mother, regardless of how much you thought she deserved it.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
"Ken" who posted here last week was a somewhat grating fellow who referred to Remanians as "Federasts" and other similar witticisms. But he reported accurately and at length his experiences as a LEAVE campaigner in Glasgow and I was pleased that he took the time to do so, and I hope he will do so again. We spend so much time arguing about stuff we can ill afford to reject reports from the front line when they fall in our laps.0 -
Mr. Eagles, no, he hasn't. We won't have another vote if we Leave and then there's a recession.
It's the opposite (but still wrong) of what the BBC business editor did when he asked Carney if he [Carney] could guarantee we wouldn't have a recession if we voted to Leave.0 -
I agree entirely. This whole thing has made me feel sick. It makes me ashamed to support my own side, and it makes me for the first time look at my country and grimace. For remain to win off the back of a murder is the most horrific end to this whole campaign. As Sean says, it will resolve nothing.SouthamObserver said:I also hate the fact that Leavers who have waited years for this feel that something utterly wrong and appalling may change the outcome of this referendum. What the hell is happening to our country?
0 -
Sacrifices they were able to make, how does that translate to a single earner family with two children on a bookkeepers hourly wage? Grammar school gave me (and my sister) a chance of the education you received that my parents would never have been able to afford whatever sacrifices they made.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've said many times, the reason I've done so well out of life was my parents (and grandparents) made a lot of sacrifices so I could attend a private school.
It was only later in life I appreciated my luck.0 -
On that note...BenedictWhite said:No, the problem isn't that we have had too many but not enough.
The tone of the debate is the issue not the debate itself. It has been filled with nasty vile attacks with people calling others nasty things like little Englanders, making offensive signs at people they disagree with (EG Bob Geldoff mocking fishermen).
If the debate were conducted by 8 year olds rather than 5 year olds the quality would be much better.
http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/the-blame-game.html0 -
He can say it would have happened anyway, due to Osborne or the global situation. Granted, he would have denied that 6 months ago, but our memories are short.TheScreamingEagles said:Well Gove's just put enormous hostage to fortune in the event of Brexit
htps://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/744270819384246272
0 -
I think that there is a legitimate critique of the aid and NGO sector in development, and the seminal work "Lords of Poverty" is a book that should be read by all in the field. There are other more recent works too.tyson said:
Don't back track on this one seanT. Lowlander's comments were utterly vile, and something that should not have been aired. Not because I don't believe own free speech, but because it is just upsetting for someone to say that they could hold Jo Cox in contempt after she has been brutally killed.SeanT said:
A fair point. I had just watched the tv coverage of Jo cox's sister making that fine speech, so maybe I was being oversensitive. Unusual for me.viewcode said:
I too was not overimpressed by Lowlander's mum. However, it is usually thought polite not to go up to people and tell them that their mum smells of poo, at least not since primary school. Lowlander was accurately reporting voting-relevant information, which for this site is the exception. The fact that it was unpleasant information is not relevant. You should have thanked him, not excoriated his mother, regardless of how much you thought she deserved it.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
"Ken" who posted here last week was a somewhat grating fellow who referred to Remanians as "Federasts" and other similar witticisms. But he reported accurately and at length his experiences as a LEAVE campaigner in Glasgow and I was pleased that he took the time to do so, and I hope he will do so again. We spend so much time arguing about stuff we can ill afford to reject reports from the front line when they fall in our laps.
Also as I'm in Italy I'm not getting the apparently annoying 24/7 Diana stuff, at all.
It's all very sad. Whatever one's opinions. Whoever wins now, their victory will be tainted. And undermined my suspicion. And so this issue won't go away, AT ALL
The fact that it drew some of the usual characters out of the ether- Plato, MikeM, etc.... just made it worse.
Nonetheless Jo Cox seems to have worked in Brussels lobbying the EU for more favourable trade arrangements with developing countries, and in New York campaigning for humanitarian aid in warzones to help refugees stay in protected zones locally. Both highly laudable, and indeed advocated by several Leavers on this site in discussions the other day.
I also note that she voted for Liz Kendall in the leadership election.0 -
Mr. (Miss?) QC, I think laughing at Ronaldo is something around which the site can unite 0
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Democracy by its very nature lets the voters decide so whatever they conclude goesTheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Nothing, since we don't know for sure that is the reason, or it is real, or will be maintained, and the reasons people decide their vote are already petty, so there's no difference.TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Yes. Winning with real EU reform and and solution to the immigration "problem" would be entirely different from winning with none of that.SeanT said:It's an unanswerable question. The country will not stand for permanent immigration at net 200,000-400,000 a year, or whatever. And if we stay in Europe that kind of migration will continue.
So the whole debate is going to get MORE poisonous.
UKIP will prosper. Tories will bicker. Labour could potentially disintegrate.
Cameron has achieved no meaningful reform of the EU, and has no solution to limiting immigration within the EU. Next Friday all our EU problems will still exist, about half the country are mad as hell about the EU, and I would say that at least half of the Remainers have cold feet about the EU. Does anyone really think these issues will evaporate soon?0 -
I'm guessing that he's referencing the IMF report.kle4 said:
He can say it would have happened anyway, due to Osborne or the global situation. Granted, he would have denied that 6 months ago, but our memories are short.TheScreamingEagles said:Well Gove's just put enormous hostage to fortune in the event of Brexit
htps://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/7442708193842462720 -
From 1963? It's awesome. I second the recommendation.SouthamObserver said:I'm listening to Sam Cooke live at the Harlem Square Club. Side Two is the best 20 minutes of music ever recorded. Look it up.
0 -
Exactly. What are the chances the economy will go tits up even if we do vote remain. Must be quite likely.eek said:
It will come anywayTheScreamingEagles said:Well Gove's just put enormous hostage to fortune in the event of Brexit
https://twitter.com/suttonnick/status/7442708193842462720 -
It says more about the current state of mind in the West rather than the age-old virtues of democracy.TheScreamingEagles said:
We are in trouble. And it's not democracy that's the problem.0 -
Indeed, I want all children to have the opportunities I had, I just wish I knew how.MaxPB said:
Sacrifices they were able to make, how does that translate to a single earner family with two children on a bookkeepers hourly wage? Grammar school gave me (and my sister) a chance of the education you received that my parents would never have been able to afford whatever sacrifices they made.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've said many times, the reason I've done so well out of life was my parents (and grandparents) made a lot of sacrifices so I could attend a private school.
It was only later in life I appreciated my luck.0 -
Again, I posted because I had a surprising experience which may reflect wider public opinions and might have an impact on an election which people are trying to predict and who have money staked on the outcome.tyson said:
Don't back track on this one seanT. Lowlander's comments were utterly vile, and something that should not have been aired. Not because I don't believe own free speech, but because it is just upsetting for someone to say that they could hold Jo Cox in contempt after she has been brutally killed.
The fact that it drew some of the usual characters out of the ether- Plato, MikeM, etc.... just made it worse.
If you don't like the real world, perhaps it would be better not to expose yourself to real world opinions and find a Safe Space to spend your time in where rainbow lollipops drop from the sky and rivers of lemonade can be sailed in chocolate boats.0 -
That does not mean she was right to do so. (I am in two minds myself. If I had the money I would start a Grammar and secondary modern. You would not be able to get on unless you could lay bricks, do a foreign language as well as be good at maths and the physical sciences.)TheScreamingEagles said:
Like on the EU, Thatcher said one thing, and did anotherSunil_Prasannan said:
Margaret Thatcher in 1977:TheScreamingEagles said:
Margaret Thatcher realised they didn't help, so she abolished or merged many of them and put comprehensives in their place.BenedictWhite said:
Ah grammar schools! The way for the working classes to better themselves... What ever happened to them?HYUFD said:
Jo Cox came from a working class background and got herself to grammar school and Cambridge and spent part of her summers working in a factory to pay for her studies so your mum was wrong on her prejudices anyway!
"People from my sort of background needed Grammar schools to compete with children from privileged homes like Shirley Williams and Anthony Wedgwood Benn."
Margaret Thatcher holds the prize as the secretary of state who closed or merged the most grammar schools for a comprehensive alternative.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/education-the-end-of-the-grammar-school-1179844.html0 -
New Poll
Yougov-ITV have Leave 44:42 up
Which is Leave's lead slashed by 5%
Which is Remain +3 Leave -2
Unsure of the fieldwork dates0 -
It is what I always felt would happen thoughRichard_Tyndall said:
So we will continue to sit on the margins with our power and sovereignty seeping away as the Eurozone dominates the EU, subject to all the rules but with no control over them. It is a bleak vision you paint of our future.HYUFD said:
Unless we join the eurozone we will never be in the Superstate and the only chance of that is a big Remain win, even on tonight's poll probably gone now as a possibilityGIN1138 said:
A decisive win for REMAIN would be better than a small one.TheScreamingEagles said:I'm still sticking with my prediction of Remain to win by 12%-15%
Would seal our fate forever in the Superstate and we could all begin the process of coming to terms with it (rather than trying to resist the inevitable)0 -
That is the one thing private schools have over the state system.SouthamObserver said:
The single best thing that ever happened to me - apart from being born to my extraordinary parents - was to go to the last ILEA grammar school. There were expectations. You were expected to go to university. I was exceptionally lucky.TheScreamingEagles said:
Margaret Thatcher realised they didn't help, so she abolished or merged many of them and put comprehensives in their place.BenedictWhite said:
Ah grammar schools! The way for the working classes to better themselves... What ever happened to them?HYUFD said:
Jo Cox came from a working class background and got herself to grammar school and Cambridge and spent part of her summers working in a factory to pay for her studies so your mum was wrong on her prejudices anyway!Lowlander said:
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.
Expectations. It also breeds confidence.0 -
While I did pretty well out of my bog standard comprehensive.MaxPB said:
Sacrifices they were able to make, how does that translate to a single earner family with two children on a bookkeepers hourly wage? Grammar school gave me (and my sister) a chance of the education you received that my parents would never have been able to afford whatever sacrifices they made.TheScreamingEagles said:
I've said many times, the reason I've done so well out of life was my parents (and grandparents) made a lot of sacrifices so I could attend a private school.
It was only later in life I appreciated my luck.0 -
I went to a grammar school and my six form Latin class mate was Graham Brady- he was a year older than me, but they combined classes since there was only 3 of us...HYUFD said:
Jo Cox went to one in the late eighties and nineties so there are still a few aroundBenedictWhite said:
Ah grammar schools! The way for the working classes to better themselves... What ever happened to them?HYUFD said:
Jo Cox came from a working class background and got herself to grammar school and Cambridge and spent part of her summers working in a factory to pay for her studies so your mum was wrong on her prejudices anyway!Lowlander said:
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.
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KentRising said:
Parents HATE grammar schools. That's why there's no rush to bring them back. Think about it. Chloe gets into grammar school. Her parents are ecstatic. Sam, Will and Emma don't. Their parents are not pleased at the rejection and that their children get a second class education. The setup means there are more second class students than first class ones. Which is a problem when those parents vote.TheScreamingEagles said:
Which is why so many people move to Kent and Bucks and over counties that still have the grammar system in order to have the opportunity for their kids to go to grammars. Grammars - loved by parents, hated by the ideologues, including the elite who send their own kids to private schools.BenedictWhite said:
Margaret Thatcher realised they didn't help, so she abolished or merged many of them and put comprehensives in their place.HYUFD said:
Ah grammar schools! The way for the working classes to better themselves... What ever happened to them?Lowlander said:
Jo Cox came from a working class background and got herself to grammar school and Cambridge and spent part of her summers working in a factory to pay for her studies so your mum was wrong on her prejudices anyway!tyson said:
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.0 -
I would speculate (always the way to go on this site) that people making their mind up for Remain on the basis of the murder, will be largely using it as a way of a justification of a vote they really wanted to make anyway. If someone really wanted to vote Leave, it isn't difficult to come up with a different rationale, even within the context of the murder.HYUFD said:
Democracy by its very nature lets the voters decide so whatever they conclude goesTheScreamingEagles said:
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You guys have spent the last couple of days telling us it won't shift more than a handful of votes now it going to become excuse to ignore the result if you lose.MarkHopkins said:TheScreamingEagles said:
Because I'd hope Leavers supported democracy.MarkHopkins said:SeanT said:
I was right. 5 point swing. Add in status quo swing back and remain will win. It's a tragic way to decide a referendum. Simply awful.MaxPB said:
Meh, that's in the immediate aftermath with huge media coverage. I don't think it will change the picture for Thursday.TheScreamingEagles said:Survation phone poll conducted on Friday and Saturday,
Remain 45% (+3) Leave 42% (-3)
IF that happens (still uncertain), why should anyone on the Leave side accept the result?
If Remain wins because of a killer (who either supports Remain or is insane), then it is not democracy.
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Nobody will want to go through the trauma of another referendum though. Most people will want to put this strange summer out of their minds I think.glw said:
Yes. Winning with real EU reform and and solution to the immigration "problem" would be entirely different from winning with none of that.SeanT said:It's an unanswerable question. The country will not stand for permanent immigration at net 200,000-400,000 a year, or whatever. And if we stay in Europe that kind of migration will continue.
So the whole debate is going to get MORE poisonous.
UKIP will prosper. Tories will bicker. Labour could potentially disintegrate.
Cameron has achieved no meaningful reform of the EU, and has no solution to limiting immigration within the EU. Next Friday all our EU problems will still exist, about half the country are mad as hell about the EU, and I would say that at least half of the Remainers have cold feet about the EU. Does anyone really think these issues will evaporate soon?
Course, there will (hopefully) be a significant shift from the Tories so that Cameron and Osborne are forced out (and UKIP will continue but will evolve as a post independence party) but I don't see another referendum in my lifetime (30-40 years) and that includes when we join the Euro.0 -
It's not as, absent the murder, the result was going to be decided on a sober and detailed assessment of the respective merits of the case.CornishBlue said:
It says more about the current state of mind in the West rather than the age-old virtues of democracy.TheScreamingEagles said:
We are in trouble. And it's not democracy that's the problem.0 -
David, I've replied to your emaildavid_herdson said:
It's not as, absent the murder, the result was going to be decided on a sober and detailed assessment of the respective merits of the case.CornishBlue said:
It says more about the current state of mind in the West rather than the age-old virtues of democracy.TheScreamingEagles said:
We are in trouble. And it's not democracy that's the problem.0 -
Absolutely, the ire that seems to be aimed at her is something I don't understand. I don't agree with much of what she stood for, however, it is clear she tried to make a change for the better in a lot of places and for a lot of people that have no advocates at the top. For that she should be lauded. That her murder may lead to a Remain vote is hugely lamentable, but it is no reason to besmirch her legacy. The ire belongs in the direction of the nutter who murdered her and those who seek to politicise and take advantage of her murder.foxinsoxuk said:
I think that there is a legitimate critique of the aid and NGO sector in development, and the seminal work "Lords of Poverty" is a book that should be read by all in the field. There are other more recent works too.
Nonetheless Jo Cox seems to have worked in Brussels lobbying the EU for more favourable trade arrangements with developing countries, and in New York campaigning for humanitarian aid in warzones to help refugees stay in protected zones locally. Both highly laudable, and indeed advocated by several Leavers on this site in discussions the other day.
I also note that she voted for Liz Kendall in the leadership election.0 -
@tag_freeman: Double-page editorial in tomorrow's Mail on Sunday: "For a safer, freer, more prosperous & even greater Britain, we urge you to vote Remain"0
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That's the one. Bring it on home to me.GeoffM said:
From 1963? It's awesome. I second the recommendation.SouthamObserver said:I'm listening to Sam Cooke live at the Harlem Square Club. Side Two is the best 20 minutes of music ever recorded. Look it up.
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Mr. Alex, or ignore the murder. It doesn't alter the UK's position in the world or the relationship we have with the EU, it's simply a tragedy for the family and friends of the victim.0
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Oh yeah we have a lot bigger problems than the EU.CornishBlue said:
It says more about the current state of mind in the West rather than the age-old virtues of democracy.TheScreamingEagles said:
We are in trouble. And it's not democracy that's the problem.0 -
If my Twitter feed is anything to go by, this has temporarily healed our divided nation. Every single post reads HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. (Miss?) QC, I think laughing at Ronaldo is something around which the site can unite
I really hate Cristiano Ronaldo. Come on the Hungarians.0 -
Are you laying it ?TheScreamingEagles said:Betfair, Leave at 3 again
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