I think the post 2pm figures are not that bad for Leave. They are peak grief, since then people have cooled down and I think they know that this is still a decision for life, not something that can be decided on the back of one nutter murdering an MP. By the time the vote comes around much of the feeling will have unwound and the effect already looks quite small.
I think you may be underestimating the grief felt by the voters and grief doesn't just turn off you know. I do expect this to have an impact on the vote, possibly just tilting it to remain, but as I have just said 'who knows'
Sorry I think you can overdo the grief bit
I felt mildly sad, but grief no. Why would I feel grief for someone I didn't know existed until the news broke ?
Indeed.
One person mentioned it at work on Thursday.
But since then nothing.
I've heard innumerable conversations about football though.
And that's the usual state of affairs.
As always we're at risk of being trapped in a PB bubble.
Comres suggesting what I suspected, the shooting will have little impact on committed Leavers but will convince enough undecideds to vote Remain for Remain to scrape home
It seems impossible to call - the tragic events of the last few days will continue to the end of the campaign and the way the campaigners moderate their tone will be very important, starting with David Cameron on tomorrow night's question time. Jeremy Corbyn's only question time event is at 6.00pm on Monday (before the football) and is to a young audience and I expect him to condemn hate and the toxic nature of today's politics. The final debate at Wembley arena on the 21st will be the most important one for each side and any mishap by either could be pivotal. I think it really is a 'who knows' situation but whoever wins there are going to be serious issues to address on both sides otherwise we will have a terribly divided country.
I agree. I might have answered "dismayed" or "upset" to that poll.
Not because of the Leave campaign, but because I think it will have a nasty corroding effect on the validity result, and greatly sour the milk. Either way.
I fully endorse your comments and I do admit to being worried for our Country as I do not think the result is likely to be decisive for either side
Comres suggesting what I suspected, the shooting will have little impact on committed Leavers but will convince enough undecideds to vote Remain for Remain to scrape home
It seems impossible to call - the tragic events of the last few days will continue to the end of the campaign and the way the campaigners moderate their tone will be very important, starting with David Cameron on tomorrow night's question time. Jeremy Corbyn's only question time event is at 6.00pm on Monday (before the football) and is to a young audience and I expect him to condemn hate and the toxic nature of today's politics. The final debate at Wembley arena on the 21st will be the most important one for each side and any mishap by either could be pivotal. I think it really is a 'who knows' situation but whoever wins there are going to be serious issues to address on both sides otherwise we will have a terribly divided country.
Indeed especially if it is a very narrow Remain win as I expect
Zero , zilch, μηδεν, only poltical obsesives believe this will have an effect. In the real world this has already been forgotten. Soon, Monday, the real will be moaning that peeps/papers keep going on about it.
Committed Leave voters will not forget a narrow Remain win nor easily forgive the political establishment
Thanks. One of my friends was so aggressive, hysterical and rude - failing to engage with any of my points, just ranting at me - that I'm now not sure what to do.
I think i'll ignore him. Not sure there's any good to come from engagement.
Do what I did, just deactivate and sit back. Better to spend the time campaigning with people that can be won over. You'd be surprised as to how many City employees can be won over with the facts:
1. If we lose passporting rights the trade doesn't disappear, our market just becomes deregulated and the BoE will stand behind EUR trading.
2. The ECB, Bundesbank and BdF are still going to be hostile to "Casino banking" while the BoE will take the same friendly approach.
3. Leaving will allow insurance companies to cast their nets towards LatAm and Asian markets, many of which are currently off limits.
4. The City will innovate. When the Fed trieda EU fantasy that they know are not close to reality.
A lightly regulated, offshore market trading in all manner of "innovative" products. What could possibly go wrong?
It isn't going to be worse than either Greece, Cyprus or Iceland is it?
Besides which with a bit of luck someone has learnt the lesson.
It would be much, much bigger than any of them. And in order to compete it will have to offer something larger markets cannot. It'll be offshore with light hand regulation and if it goes tits up the British government will be left with the bill.
Sorry? Larger markets?
Can you name say 3 larger money markets than London? Or perhaps 1?
London is uniquely placed currently. Post-Brexit - as Max implicitly acknowledges - everything changes. Hence the extremely risky new strategy.
Ah. You can't name one larger market.
London of course almost collapsed post not accepting the Euro... except it didn't did it?
I think the post 2pm figures are not that bad for Leave. They are peak grief, since then people have cooled down and I think they know that this is still a decision for life, not something that can be decided on the back of one nutter murdering an MP. By the time the vote comes around much of the feeling will have unwound and the effect already looks quite small.
I think you may be underestimating the grief felt by the voters and grief doesn't just turn off you know. I do expect this to have an impact on the vote, possibly just tilting it to remain, but as I have just said 'who knows'
Sorry I think you can overdo the grief bit
I felt mildly sad, but grief no. Why would I feel grief for someone I didn't know existed until the news broke ?
Well if you could't feel for her sister and family today when they gave their tribute I am surprised and I think this will be a story for the rest of the campaign, but we will see
I felt grief for my sister who died of cancer when she was thirty six
I felt sorry for Jo cox family
There's quite a gap between the two emotions. Ones very personal and takes your head out for a couple of weeks, the other while still appealing to the emotions doesn't stop you looking at the world around you.
I think the post 2pm figures are not that bad for Leave. They are peak grief, since then people have cooled down and I think they know that this is still a decision for life, not something that can be decided on the back of one nutter murdering an MP. By the time the vote comes around much of the feeling will have unwound and the effect already looks quite small.
I think you may be underestimating the grief felt by the voters and grief doesn't just turn off you know. I do expect this to have an impact on the vote, possibly just tilting it to remain, but as I have just said 'who knows'
I think that's incorrect. As sad as this was, but Thursday it is Sunday's recycling. It is a personal tragedy for her friends and family, and an assault on our democracy by a nutter, but by tomorrow both campaigns are up and running again and by Tuesday the ding dong battle will be back and all of the fake calls for unity by Dave will be completely forgotten as project fear ramps up in the days before the vote.
Except of course the timetable has been upset as the programmed scares from Lagarde and co have been pushed off the news schedule
The IMF report has been and gone. It was very odd for them to publicise it on a weekend.
Comres suggesting what I suspected, the shooting will have little impact on committed Leavers but will convince enough undecideds to vote Remain for Remain to scrape home
Wishful thinking?
I do reckon Remainers have great faith (hope) that the murder will affect the result.
Mind you, if that causes them to neglect debate & reasoning (as opposed to insults, threats & doom mongering), then they should not complain when they end up like Kinnock in 92 or Paddy Ashdown in 2015.
I think the post 2pm figures are not that bad for Leave. They are peak grief, since then people have cooled down and I think they know that this is still a decision for life, not something that can be decided on the back of one nutter murdering an MP. By the time the vote comes around much of the feeling will have unwound and the effect already looks quite small.
I think you may be underestimating the grief felt by the voters and grief doesn't just turn off you know. I do expect this to have an impact on the vote, possibly just tilting it to remain, but as I have just said 'who knows'
Most of the voters had never even heard of her including me.
Well they have now and it is not going away with the HOC tribute on Monday that will be widely covered on the broadcast media and I expect labour to refer to her desire to stay in the EU once campaigning restarts. I am not saying remain has won but to dismiss this tragic event may be a little complacent
People have more sense. After Ian Gow was killed the Tories said "not to vote for us would be a victory for the IRA."
The voters of Eastbourne blew them a huge raspberry...
Re Westminster VI, I am not at all surprised that Labour is sub 30% in the context of its stance on the referendum vote.
Yet Labour have cut the Tories lead from 7% at the general election to 5% now as the Tories have lost even more voters to UKIP than Labour
It's midterm, duh.
This is a terrible mid term poll for Labour, particularly against the back drop of Tory civil war. It is perhaps the worst Labour poll, considering the circumstances, in 35 years.
Facebook: absolutely filled to brim with friends gunning full-on for Remain. No sign of exploitation the murder at all. But two or three usually rational, and level-headed people, becoming highly emotional about Remain. All work in London in professional services/finance.
This is why you get so few City types willing to declare for Leave openly. I have deactivated my account until after the referendum because I just get endless Remain propaganda from a few of my colleagues. I've begun to think that the people who are keeping quiet are going to vote for Leave and there are more people just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet despite management pressure to vote Remain.
Thanks. One of my friends was so aggressive, hysterical and rude - failing to engage with any of my points, just ranting at me - that I'm now not sure what to do.
I think i'll ignore him. Not sure there's any good to come from engagement.
Do what I did, just deactivate and sit back. Better to spend the time campaigning with people that can be won over. You'd be surprised as to how many City employees can be won over with the facts:
1. If we lose passporting rights the trade doesn't disappear, our market just becomes deregulated and the BoE will stand behind EUR trading.
2. The ECB, Bundesbank and BdF are still going to be hostile to "Casino banking" while the BoE will take the same friendly approach.
3. Leaving will allow insurance companies to cast their nets towards LatAm and Asian markets, many of which are currently off limits.
4. The City will innovate. When the Fed tried to claim jurisdiction over global USD trading the City innovated and we still have huge USD trading. The idea that the ECB can regulate the City out of existence or destroy our EUR markets if we leave are a EU fantasy that they know are not close to reality.
A lightly regulated, offshore market trading in all manner of "innovative" products. What could possibly go wrong?
Isn't that the City dream?
Don't be naughty Max. Even if it was. And we left. We would still be regulated to within an inch of our lives by the EU. But would have no lobbying, no rapporteur, no influence.
You are evidently a persuasive debater amongst your friends.
How does the ECB regulate an offshore market that uses synthetic clearing houses?
First, what does a synthetic clearing house mean? Second, it regulates us when we trade european stocks.
First, what does a synthetic clearing house mean? Second, it regulates us when we trade european stocks.
Prime brokerages, they will self clear securities trades.
And what? Stock trades are bread and butter. It's derivatives trading that matters, I struggle to see how the City would continue to come under EU regulations, then again I'm not in regulations, yet the experts in our reports specifically outlined how being outside of EU regulations for derivatives would be a net gain for the City, again a reason why the Hedge funds back Leave.
I think the post 2pm figures are not that bad for Leave. They are peak grief, since then people have cooled down and I think they know that this is still a decision for life, not something that can be decided on the back of one nutter murdering an MP. By the time the vote comes around much of the feeling will have unwound and the effect already looks quite small.
I think you may be underestimating the grief felt by the voters and grief doesn't just turn off you know. I do expect this to have an impact on the vote, possibly just tilting it to remain, but as I have just said 'who knows'
Sorry I think you can overdo the grief bit
I felt mildly sad, but grief no. Why would I feel grief for someone I didn't know existed until the news broke ?
It's what it represents. It sullies the leave cause. As a committed leaver, I feel more bothered now about being on the same side as some unsavoury people than I did before. I suspect others less committed than me will change sides as a result.
Conversely, what the murder may well do is increase the number of shy leavers. I was going to do a Facebook post on the 23rd explaining (to my mainly young, liberal, remain friends) why I was voting leave. Now I don't think I'll bother. So a decline in the leave shares and increase in don't knows may well reflect this phenomenon.
Bah. Who knows. I'll be glad when it's over though!
The Comres numbers suggest the committed Leave vote is little changed it is the undecideds shifting to Remain
I think the post 2pm figures are not that bad for Leave. They are peak grief, since then people have cooled down and I think they know that this is still a decision for life, not something that can be decided on the back of one nutter murdering an MP. By the time the vote comes around much of the feeling will have unwound and the effect already looks quite small.
I think you may be underestimating the grief felt by the voters and grief doesn't just turn off you know. I do expect this to have an impact on the vote, possibly just tilting it to remain, but as I have just said 'who knows'
I think that's incorrect. As sad as this was, but Thursday it is Sunday's recycling. It is a personal tragedy for her friends and family, and an assault on our democracy by a nutter, but by tomorrow both campaigns are up and running again and by Tuesday the ding dong battle will be back and all of the fake calls for unity by Dave will be completely forgotten as project fear ramps up in the days before the vote.
I really hope not and expect the campaign from both sides to be toned down, anything less will see a revolt by the voters
Facebook: absolutely filled to brim with friends gunning full-on for Remain. No sign of exploitation the murder at all. But two or three usually rational, and level-headed people, becoming highly emotional about Remain. All work in London in professional services/finance.
This is why you get so few City typgoing to vote for Leave and there are more people just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet despite management pressure to vote Remain.
Thanks. One of my friends was so aggressive, hysterical and rude - failing to engage with any of my points, just ranting at me - that I'm now not sure what to do.
I think i'll ignore him. Not sure there's any good to come from engagement.
Do what I did, just deactivate and sit back. Better to spend the time campaigning with people that can be won over. You'd be surprised as to how many City employees can be won over with the facts:
1. If we lose passporting rights the trade doesn't disappear, our market just becomes deregulated and the BoE will stand behind EUR trading.
2. The ECB, Bundesbank and BdF are still going to be hostile to "Casino banking" while the BoE will take the same friendly approach.
3. Leaving will allow insurance companies to cast their nets towards LatAm and Asian markets, many of which are currently off limits.
4. The City will innovate. When the Fed tried to claim jurisdiction over global USD trading the City innovated and we still have huge USD trading. The idea that the ECB can regulate the City out of existence or destroy our EUR markets if we leave are a EU fantasy that they know are not close to reality.
A lightly regulated, offshore market trading in all manner of "innovative" products. What could possibly go wrong?
Isn't that the City dream?
Don't be naughty Max. Even if it was. And we left. We would still be regulated to within an inch of our lives by the EU. But would have no lobbying, no rapporteur, no influence.
You are evidently a persuasive debater amongst your friends.
How does the ECB regulate an offshore market that uses synthetic clearing houses?
First, what does a synthetic clearing house mean? Second, it regulates us when we trade european stocks.
Re Westminster VI, I am not at all surprised that Labour is sub 30% in the context of its stance on the referendum vote.
Yet Labour have cut the Tories lead from 7% at the general election to 5% now as the Tories have lost even more voters to UKIP than Labour
How can a party which has failed to increase its GE vote share, one year on from a general election, be deemed to be responsible for cutting the Tories' lead? Compare the recovery of Labour's vote share by mid 2011 to the absence of one now. Even allowing for changes in polling methodology, there is a big contrast.
I think the post 2pm figures are not that bad for Leave. They are peak grief, since then people have cooled down and I think they know that this is still a decision for life, not something that can be decided on the back of one nutter murdering an MP. By the time the vote comes around much of the feeling will have unwound and the effect already looks quite small.
I think you may be underestimating the grief felt by the voters and grief doesn't just turn off you know. I do expect this to have an impact on the vote, possibly just tilting it to remain, but as I have just said 'who knows'
I think that's incorrect. As sad as this was, but Thursday it is Sunday's recycling. It is a personal tragedy for her friends and family, and an assault on our democracy by a nutter, but by tomorrow both campaigns are up and running again and by Tuesday the ding dong battle will be back and all of the fake calls for unity by Dave will be completely forgotten as project fear ramps up in the days before the vote.
Except of course the timetable has been upset as the programmed scares from Lagarde and co have been pushed off the news schedule
The IMF report has been and gone. It was very odd for them to publicise it on a weekend.
Comres suggesting what I suspected, the shooting will have little impact on committed Leavers but will convince enough undecideds to vote Remain for Remain to scrape home
It seems impossible to call - the tragic events of the last few days will continue to the end of the campaign and the way the campaigners moderate their tone will be very important, starting with David Cameron on tomorrow night's question time. Jeremy Corbyn's only question time event is at 6.00pm on Monday (before the football) and is to a young audience and I expect him to condemn hate and the toxic nature of today's politics. The final debate at Wembley arena on the 21st will be the most important one for each side and any mishap by either could be pivotal. I think it really is a 'who knows' situation but whoever wins there are going to be serious issues to address on both sides otherwise we will have a terribly divided country.
Indeed especially if it is a very narrow Remain win as I expect
Zero , zilch, μηδεν, only poltical obsesives believe this will have an effect. In the real world this has already been forgotten. Soon, Monday, the real will be moaning that peeps/papers keep going on about it.
What is wrong with you? Here I've seen I seen such inhumanity, apologists for a murderer and those who wish it away. ii've only been here for a few days but that's enough. If you represent the people of this country then we're in hell. We'll see nexr week but that's enough fir me here. i hope you find a grace that is currently missing from your life.
Comres suggesting what I suspected, the shooting will have little impact on committed Leavers but will convince enough undecideds to vote Remain for Remain to scrape home
It seems impossible to call - the tragic events of the last few days will continue to the end of the campaign and the way the campaigners moderate their tone will be very important, starting with David Cameron on tomorrow night's question time. Jeremy Corbyn's only question time event is at 6.00pm on Monday (before the football) and is to a young audience and I expect him to condemn hate and the toxic nature of today's politics. The final debate at Wembley arena on the 21st will be the most important one for each side and any mishap by either could be pivotal. I think it really is a 'who knows' situation but whoever wins there are going to be serious issues to address on both sides otherwise we will have a terribly divided country.
Indeed especially if it is a very narrow Remain win as I expect
Zero , zilch, μηδεν, only poltical obsesives believe this will have an effect. In the real world this has already been forgotten. Soon, Monday, the real will be moaning that peeps/papers keep going on about it.
Committed Leave voters will not forget a narrow Remain win nor easily forgive the political establishment
I might not be representative, but I am certainly a committed Leaver. I do have principles. If the vote is for remain, even 50.5% / 49.5% then I'm going to accept it and move on with my life. Democracy is important. It has value beyond economics and partisan politics.
I will, of course, be incredibly disappointed. We won't be allowed another referendum. But I've had other disappointments in my life; this won't even be anything close to the worst.
'No it does not as the polling would have continued well after the final whistle and most people would have been at work when the match was on even if they were not watching it
The fact that only 10% of the sample was contacted from 2pm onwards suggest to me that the polling did not last that long after the final whistle. The game was big enough, and appealing very much to a particular demographic, to be quite capable of biasing the sample. And as the pre/post 2pm split was clearly an afterthought by ComRes, there won't have been any special weighting within this sub-break to compensate for that bias.'
If anything post 2pm on a weekday the most likely to be contactable are pensioners and the unemployed and stay at home mothers who lean Leave, albeit with a few Remain leaning students
Rather disappointed that the Icelandic team shirts show the players' patronymics rather than their first names which would be correct. The penalty scorer is properly known as Gylfi. The Icelanders should stand up for their own culture, which is to not have surnames.
First, what does a synthetic clearing house mean? Second, it regulates us when we trade european stocks.
Prime brokerages, they will self clear securities trades.
And what? Stock trades are bread and butter. It's derivatives trading that matters, I struggle to see how the City would continue to come under EU regulations, then again I'm not in regulations, yet the experts in our reports specifically outlined how being outside of EU regulations for derivatives would be a net gain for the City, again a reason why the Hedge funds back Leave.
What is the proportion of funds under management for hedge funds and institutional asset managers?
What do you mean "stock trades are bread and butter"?
I think the post 2pm figures are not that bad for Leave. They are peak grief, since then people have cooled down and I think they know that this is still a decision for life, not something that can be decided on the back of one nutter murdering an MP. By the time the vote comes around much of the feeling will have unwound and the effect already looks quite small.
I think you may be underestimating the grief felt by the voters and grief doesn't just turn off you know. I do expect this to have an impact on the vote, possibly just tilting it to remain, but as I have just said 'who knows'
I think that's incorrect. As sad as this was, but Thursday it is Sunday's recycling. It is a personal tragedy for her friends and family, and an assault on our democracy by a nutter, but by tomorrow both campaigns are up and running again and by Tuesday the ding dong battle will be back and all of the fake calls for unity by Dave will be completely forgotten as project fear ramps up in the days before the vote.
Except of course the timetable has been upset as the programmed scares from Lagarde and co have been pushed off the news schedule
The IMF report has been and gone. It was very odd for them to publicise it on a weekend.
It was on the grid for Friday, directly after campaigning by Osborne and the "independent" Mark Carney on Thursday at the Mansion house, neither of which happened.
I think the post 2pm figures are not that bad for Leave. They are peak grief, since then people have cooled down and I think they know that this is still a decision for life, not something that can be decided on the back of one nutter murdering an MP. By the time the vote comes around much of the feeling will have unwound and the effect already looks quite small.
I think you may be underestimating the grief felt by the voters and grief doesn't just turn off you know. I do expect this to have an impact on the vote, possibly just tilting it to remain, but as I have just said 'who knows'
Sorry I think you can overdo the grief bit
I felt mildly sad, but grief no. Why would I feel grief for someone I didn't know existed until the news broke ?
Indeed.
One person mentioned it at work on Thursday.
But since then nothing.
I've heard innumerable conversations about football though.
And that's the usual state of affairs.
As always we're at risk of being trapped in a PB bubble.
We're like the prisoners in Plato's cave. We've been chained up by PB and spend all our lives reading the threads which provide distorted images and representations of a reality we'll never see.
Re Westminster VI, I am not at all surprised that Labour is sub 30% in the context of its stance on the referendum vote.
Yet Labour have cut the Tories lead from 7% at the general election to 5% now as the Tories have lost even more voters to UKIP than Labour
It's midterm, duh.
This is a terrible mid term poll for Labour, particularly against the back drop of Tory civil war. It is perhaps the worst Labour poll, considering the circumstances, in 35 years.
It's worse than that. We have a reviled chancellor (by many of his own voters) civil war, spending constraint and tory civil war.
It's not so much an open goal as the Conservative party has vacated the pitch and Corbyn is still scoring own goals.
I think the post 2pm figures are not that bad for Leave. They are peak grief, since then people have cooled down and I think they know that this is still a decision for life, not something that can be decided on the back of one nutter murdering an MP. By the time the vote comes around much of the feeling will have unwound and the effect already looks quite small.
I think you may be underestimating the grief felt by the voters and grief doesn't just turn off you know. I do expect this to have an impact on the vote, possibly just tilting it to remain, but as I have just said 'who knows'
Sorry I think you can overdo the grief bit
I felt mildly sad, but grief no. Why would I feel grief for someone I didn't know existed until the news broke ?
Indeed.
One person mentioned it at work on Thursday.
But since then nothing.
I've heard innumerable conversations about football though.
And that's the usual state of affairs.
As always we're at risk of being trapped in a PB bubble.
We're like the prisoners in Plato's cave. We've been chained up by PB and spend all our lives reading the threads which provides distorted images and interpretations of a reality we'll never see.
First, what does a synthetic clearing house mean? Second, it regulates us when we trade european stocks.
Prime brokerages, they will self clear securities trades.
And what? Stock trades are bread and butter. It's derivatives trading that matters, I struggle to see how the City would continue to come under EU regulations, then again I'm not in regulations, yet the experts in our reports specifically outlined how being outside of EU regulations for derivatives would be a net gain for the City, again a reason why the Hedge funds back Leave.
What is the proportion of funds under management for hedge funds and institutional asset managers?
What do you mean "stock trades are bread and butter"?
I honestly couldn't say.
That it would be difficult to regulate the City out of it, and given the relative sizes of the markets in London and other EU markets they would have to be insane to put a "must be in the EU" regulation in place. I imagine we'd take it to the WTO as well.
Facebook: absolutely filled to brim with friends gunning full-on for Remain. No sign of exploitation the murder at all. But two or three usually rational, and level-headed people, becoming highly emotional about Remain. All work in London in professional services/finance.
This is why you get so few City typgoing to vote for Leave and there are more people just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet despite management pressure to vote Remain.
Thanks. One of my friends was so aggressive, hysterical and rude - failing to engage with any of my points, just ranting at me - that I'm now not sure what to do.
I think i'll ignore him. Not sure there's any good to come from engagement.
Do what I did, just deactivate and sit back. Better to spend the time campaigning with people that can be won over. You'd be surprised as to how many City employees can be won over with the facts:
1. If we lose passporting rights the trade doesn't disappear, our market just becomes deregulated and the BoE will stand behind EUR trading.
2. The ECB, Bundesbank and BdF are still going to be hostile to "Casino banking" while the BoE will take the same friendly approach.
3. Leaving will allow insurance companies to cast their nets towards LatAm and Asian markets, many of which are currently off limits.
4. The City will innovate. When the Fed tried to claim jurisdiction over global USD trading the City innovated and we still have huge USD trading. The idea that the ECB can regulate the City out of existence or destroy our EUR markets if we leave are a EU fantasy that they know are not close to reality.
A lightly regulated, offshore market trading in all manner of "innovative" products. What could possibly go wrong?
Isn't that the City dream?
Don't be naughty Max. Even if it was. And we left. We would still be regulated to within an inch of our lives by the EU. But would have no lobbying, no rapporteur, no influence.
You are evidently a persuasive debater amongst your friends.
How does the ECB regulate an offshore market that uses synthetic clearing houses?
First, what does a synthetic clearing house mean? Second, it regulates us when we trade european stocks.
ComRes say "It is just possible that the post-2pm sample varies from the pre-2pm one enough to create this more negative impact for Leave. But it is also intuitive to assume that there will have been some impact, even if only marginal, of Thursday’s events."
Why don't the lazy sods do a chi-squared test to measure significance?
If I were commissioning a pollster, I'd want hard significance measures where possible, not hedging crap such as "it is possible" that X varies enough from Y, and "it is also intuitive to assume...even if only marginal".
MaxB - What really concerns me about you and a few other right wing Brexiters is not that you want to REPLACE EU financial regulations with a better British approach but just get rid of the EU regulations full stop. Do you want our government to be regulating derivatives or do you think they can insure it all so cleverly this time that it could never go wrong?
Re Westminster VI, I am not at all surprised that Labour is sub 30% in the context of its stance on the referendum vote.
Yet Labour have cut the Tories lead from 7% at the general election to 5% now as the Tories have lost even more voters to UKIP than Labour
How can a party which has failed to increase its GE vote share, one year on from a general election, be deemed to be responsible for cutting the Tories' lead? Compare the recovery of Labour's vote share by mid 2011 to the absence of one now. Even allowing for changes in polling methodology, there is a big contrast.
Labour might be doing even worse if it wasn't for all the LabourLeave "wipe the smile off their faces" ads.
First, what does a synthetic clearing house mean? Second, it regulates us when we trade european stocks.
Prime brokerages, they will self clear securities trades.
And what? Stock trades are bread and butter. It's derivatives trading that matters, I struggle to see how the City would continue to come under EU regulations, then again I'm not in regulations, yet the experts in our reports specifically outlined how being outside of EU regulations for derivatives would be a net gain for the City, again a reason why the Hedge funds back Leave.
What is the proportion of funds under management for hedge funds and institutional asset managers?
What do you mean "stock trades are bread and butter"?
I honestly couldn't say.
That it would be difficult to regulate the City out of it, and given the relative sizes of the markets in London and other EU markets they would have to be insane to put a "must be in the EU" regulation in place. I imagine we'd take it to the WTO as well.
Max don't make me post you the MiFID link again, especially on a Saturday night....
I think the post 2pm figures are not that bad for Leave. They are peak grief, since then people have cooled down and I think they know that this is still a decision for life, not something that can be decided on the back of one nutter murdering an MP. By the time the vote comes around much of the feeling will have unwound and the effect already looks quite small.
I think you may be underestimating the grief felt by the voters and grief doesn't just turn off you know. I do expect this to have an impact on the vote, possibly just tilting it to remain, but as I have just said 'who knows'
Sorry I think you can overdo the grief bit
I felt mildly sad, but grief no. Why would I feel grief for someone I didn't know existed until the news broke ?
Indeed.
One person mentioned it at work on Thursday.
But since then nothing.
I've heard innumerable conversations about football though.
And that's the usual state of affairs.
As always we're at risk of being trapped in a PB bubble.
We're like the prisoners in Plato's cave. We've been chained up by PB and spend all our lives reading the threads which provides distorted images and interpretations of a reality we'll never see.
In the coffee room at work the conversation was on Love Island, football, children and departmental politics. Same at the afternoon BBQ at some neighbours. National politics was way down the list. Perhaps both Leavers and Remainers are as shy as a socially phobic dormouse.
I don't think that debates change views much, though they may confirm them. The risk to either side is a major gaffe. Most likely to play out as a nil nil draw.
The irony is we are where we are now because of Cameron's fear UKIP would hurt the Conservatives more. I still wonder if he offered the referendum believing he would never have to deliver on the pledge.
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
Rather disappointed that the Icelandic team shirts show the players' patronymics rather than their first names which would be correct. The penalty scorer is properly known as Gylfi. The Icelanders should stand up for their own culture, which is to not have surnames.
I was disappointed they lost the lead on 88 minutes!
Re Westminster VI, I am not at all surprised that Labour is sub 30% in the context of its stance on the referendum vote.
Yet Labour have cut the Tories lead from 7% at the general election to 5% now as the Tories have lost even more voters to UKIP than Labour
How can a party which has failed to increase its GE vote share, one year on from a general election, be deemed to be responsible for cutting the Tories' lead? Compare the recovery of Labour's vote share by mid 2011 to the absence of one now. Even allowing for changes in polling methodology, there is a big contrast.
I never said it was, it is UKIP cutting into the Tory vote and in 2011 Miliband still had Scotland.Even if Labour fail to increase their voteshare significantly or even lose voteshare they can still gain seats if the Tories lose even more voteshare as Michael Howard gained seats off Labour in 2005 when Labour voters went to the LDs
MaxB - What really concerns me about you and a few other right wing Brexiters is not that you want to REPLACE EU financial regulations with a better British approach but just get rid of the EU regulations full stop. Do you want our government to be regulating derivatives or do you think they can insure it all so cleverly this time that it could never go wrong?
Don't be silly, of course they would still be regulated, just by the FCA and BoE. Both of whom are better at it than the EBA and ECB. More regulation isn't better than the right regulation. Brown proved that with aplomb in 2007/8.
Facebook: absolutely filled to brim with friends gunning full-on for Remain. No sign of exploitation the murder at all. But two or three usually rational, and level-headed people, becoming highly emotional about Remain. All work in London in professional services/finance.
This is why you get so few City typgoing to vote for Leave and there are more people just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet despite management pressure to vote Remain.
Thanks. One of my friends was so aggressive, hysterical and rude - failing to engage with any of my points, just ranting at me - that I'm now not sure what to do.
I think i'll ignore him. Not sure there's any good to come from engagement.
Do what I did, just deactivate and sit back. Better to spend the time campaigning with people that can be won over. You'd be surprised as to how many City employees can be won over with the facts:
1. If we lose passporting rights the trade doesn't disappear, our market just becomes deregulated and the BoE will stanose to reality.
A lightly regulated, offshore market trading in all manner of "innovative" products. What could possibly go wrong?
Isn't that the City dream?
Don't be naughty Max. Even if it was. And we left. We would still be regulated to within an inch of our lives by the EU. But would have no lobbying, no rapporteur, no influence.
You are evidently a persuasive debater amongst your friends.
How does the ECB regulate an offshore market that uses synthetic clearing houses?
First, what does a synthetic clearing house mean? Second, it regulates us when we trade european stocks.
Does the USA regulate our trade in dollars?
Yes.
And do we get a say in how they do that?
Do we trade more dollars than New York?
Here's your task for next week.
1) go into a Barclays bank on the high street (UK bank, UK location) and open a USD account. 2) remit $10 to Hassan Rouhani. 3) sit back and see who regulates you.
Re Westminster VI, I am not at all surprised that Labour is sub 30% in the context of its stance on the referendum vote.
Yet Labour have cut the Tories lead from 7% at the general election to 5% now as the Tories have lost even more voters to UKIP than Labour
A Remain vote could turn the UKIP into a serious parliamentary force in England and Wales. The SNP get the votes of all the people who wanted independence. UKIP could be very big beneficiaries of disgruntled Leave voters, especially in Labour's northern heartlands. Whatever the result, things will never be the same again.
I think it was Faisal Islam last week who said he heard from a senior source that this was Farage's masterplan.
I think if Farage can throw the vote by being suitably outrageous over the next 5 days, he will. Of course, his comments will be widely reported by the BBC/Guardian, in particular.
He wants a victory on his terms, with him leading it, or none at all.
His behaviour over the last 13-14 months tells you everything you need to know.
please everyone tweet Farage to not make a tit out of himself.
Re Westminster VI, I am not at all surprised that Labour is sub 30% in the context of its stance on the referendum vote.
Yet Labour have cut the Tories lead from 7% at the general election to 5% now as the Tories have lost even more voters to UKIP than Labour
How can a party which has failed to increase its GE vote share, one year on from a general election, be deemed to be responsible for cutting the Tories' lead? Compare the recovery of Labour's vote share by mid 2011 to the absence of one now. Even allowing for changes in polling methodology, there is a big contrast.
Labour might be doing even worse if it wasn't for all the LabourLeave "wipe the smile off their faces" ads.
Yes I'm getting those and the chance to get rid of Osborne makes voting leave worth it by itself
The irony is we are where we are now because of Cameron's fear UKIP would hurt the Conservatives more. I still wonder if he offered the referendum believing he would never have to deliver on the pledge.
I expect so, but your side failed to live up to their side of the bargain and win some seats.... Not entirely the LDs fault though to be fair.
Comres suggesting what I suspected, the shooting will have little impact on committed Leavers but will convince enough undecideds to vote Remain for Remain to scrape home
It seems impossible to call - the tragic events of the last few days will continue to the end of the campaign and the way the campaigners moderate their tone will be very important, starting with David Cameron on tomorrow night's question time. Jeremy Corbyn's only question time event is at 6.00pm on Monday (before the football) and is to a young audience and I expect him to condemn hate and the toxic nature of today's politics. The final debate at Wembley arena on the 21st will be the most important one for each side and any mishap by either could be pivotal. I think it really is a 'who knows' situation but whoever wins there are going to be serious issues to address on both sides otherwise we will have a terribly divided country.
Indeed especially if it is a very narrow Remain win as I expect
Zero , zilch, μηδεν, only poltical obsesives believe this will have an effect. In the real world this has already been forgotten. Soon, Monday, the real will be moaning that peeps/papers keep going on about it.
Committed Leave voters will not forget a narrow Remain win nor easily forgive the political establishment
I might not be representative, but I am certainly a committed Leaver. I do have principles. If the vote is for remain, even 50.5% / 49.5% then I'm going to accept it and move on with my life. Democracy is important. It has value beyond economics and partisan politics.
I will, of course, be incredibly disappointed. We won't be allowed another referendum. But I've had other disappointments in my life; this won't even be anything close to the worst.
Good for you but with the Tories already down 3% on the general election and UKIP up 6% not all Leave voting Tories agree with you
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
You're right. People have had enough.
Change will lance this boil - somehow. It offers hope.
Facebook: absolutely filled to brim with friends gunning full-on for Remain. No sign of exploitation the murder at all. But two or three usually rational, and level-headed people, becoming highly emotional about Remain. All work in London in professional services/finance.
This is why you get so few City typgoing to vote for Leave and there are more people just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet despite management pressure to vote Remain.
Thanks. One of my friends was so aggressive, hysterical and rude - failing to engage with any of my points, just ranting at me - that I'm now not sure what to do.
I think i'll ignore him. Not sure there's any good to come from engagement.
Do what I did, just deactivate and sit back. Better to spend the time campaigning with people that can be won over. You'd be surprised as to how many City employees can be won over with the facts:
1. If we lose passporting rights the trade doesn't disappear, our market just becomes deregulated and the BoE will stanose to reality.
A lightly regulated, offshore market trading in all manner of "innovative" products. What could possibly go wrong?
Isn't that the City dream?
Don't be naughty Max. Even if it was. And we left. We would still be regulated to within an inch of our lives by the EU. But would have no lobbying, no rapporteur, no influence.
You are evidently a persuasive debater amongst your friends.
How does the ECB regulate an offshore market that uses synthetic clearing houses?
First, what does a synthetic clearing house mean? Second, it regulates us when we trade european stocks.
Does the USA regulate our trade in dollars?
Yes.
And do we get a say in how they do that?
Do we trade more dollars than New York?
Here's your task for next week.
1) go into a Barclays bank on the high street (UK bank, UK location) and open a USD account. 2) remit $10 to Hassan Rouhani. 3) sit back and see who regulates you.
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
I don't see that the bubble have expected anything from it, even if some within the bubble did and do.
The irony is we are where we are now because of Cameron's fear UKIP would hurt the Conservatives more. I still wonder if he offered the referendum believing he would never have to deliver on the pledge.
Almost certainly.
Cameron and Osborne now wish that the Conservatives hadn't made any gains from the LibDems.
The irony is we are where we are now because of Cameron's fear UKIP would hurt the Conservatives more. I still wonder if he offered the referendum believing he would never have to deliver on the pledge.
I think we can all see how cynical Cameron is, and that he only offered it thinking there was no way he would win a majority.
MaxB - What really concerns me about you and a few other right wing Brexiters is not that you want to REPLACE EU financial regulations with a better British approach but just get rid of the EU regulations full stop. Do you want our government to be regulating derivatives or do you think they can insure it all so cleverly this time that it could never go wrong?
Don't be silly, of course they would still be regulated, just by the FCA and BoE. Both of whom are better at it than the EBA and ECB. More regulation isn't better than the right regulation. Brown proved that with aplomb in 2007/8.
But what's the justification for saying they are better at it? Because it's the preference of people in the city? Bit like asking schoolkids if they prefer the teacher who's strict or the one who's a pushover.
Facebook: absolutely filled to brim with friends gunning full-on for Remain. No sign of exploitation the murder at all. But two or three usually rational, and level-headed people, becoming highly emotional about Remain. All work in London in professional services/finance.
This is why you get so few City types willing to declare for Leave openly. I have deactivated my account until after the referendum because I just get endless Remain propaganda from a few of my colleagues. I've begun to think that the people who are keeping quiet are going to vote for Leave and there are more people just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet despite management pressure to vote Remain.
Thanks. One of my friends was so aggressive, hysterical and rude - failing to engage with any of my points, just ranting at me - that I'm now not sure what to do.
I think i'll ignore him. Not sure there's any good to come from engagement.
Do what I did, just deactivate and sit back. Better to spend the time campaigning with people that can be won over. You'd be surprised as to how many City employees can be won over with the facts:
1. If we lose passporting rights the trade doesn't disappear, our market just becomes deregulated and the BoE will stand behind EUR trading.
2. The ECB, Bundesbank and BdF are still going to be hostile to "Casino banking" while the BoE will take the same friendly approach.
3. Leaving will allow insurance companies to cast their nets towards LatAm and Asian markets, many of which are currently off limits.
4. The City will innovate. When the Fed tried to claim jurisdiction over global USD trading the City innovated and we still have huge USD trading. The idea that the ECB can regulate the City out of existence or destroy our EUR markets if we leave are a EU fantasy that they know are not close to reality.
A lightly regulated, offshore market trading in all manner of "innovative" products. What could possibly go wrong?
Isn't that the City dream?
And Britain's nightmare? Did you also suggest that the BOE would underwrite Euro assets? Why?
I find it extraordinary that people are able to contemplate risking so much. The misery that something going wrong would cause is almost unimiginable. I cannot believe this is a remotely serious proposition.
That depends on how bad you think the status quo is.
MaxB - What really concerns me about you and a few other right wing Brexiters is not that you want to REPLACE EU financial regulations with a better British approach but just get rid of the EU regulations full stop. Do you want our government to be regulating derivatives or do you think they can insure it all so cleverly this time that it could never go wrong?
Don't be silly, of course they would still be regulated, just by the FCA and BoE. Both of whom are better at it than the EBA and ECB. More regulation isn't better than the right regulation. Brown proved that with aplomb in 2007/8.
But what's the justification for saying they are better at it? Because it's the preference of people in the city? Bit like asking schoolkids if they prefer the teacher who's strict or the one who's a pushover.
In this case the teacher that knows what they are doing and wants to teach vs the teacher who is very strict but just has the students sit in silence all lesson learning nothing.
MaxB - What really concerns me about you and a few other right wing Brexiters is not that you want to REPLACE EU financial regulations with a better British approach but just get rid of the EU regulations full stop. Do you want our government to be regulating derivatives or do you think they can insure it all so cleverly this time that it could never go wrong?
Don't be silly, of course they would still be regulated, just by the FCA and BoE. Both of whom are better at it than the EBA and ECB. More regulation isn't better than the right regulation. Brown proved that with aplomb in 2007/8.
My understanding is that banking regulation in the Lebanon is both very very very brief and very very very effective. They have been doing it for a long time. It's something like one page.
During the banking crash one bank lost $20 million. They laughed about it of course... but that was it.
Two years before the Lebanese central bank used its supervisory power to tell its banks US banks were going bust and to get out. A $200 million bond with Wachovia matured the day before it went bust.
So more or less regulation is a stupid argument. Better or worse is the correct one. Shorter is usually better also.
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
Re Westminster VI, I am not at all surprised that Labour is sub 30% in the context of its stance on the referendum vote.
Yet Labour have cut the Tories lead from 7% at the general election to 5% now as the Tories have lost even more voters to UKIP than Labour
How can a party which has failed to increase its GE vote share, one year on from a general election, be deemed to be responsible for cutting the Tories' lead? Compare the recovery of Labour's vote share by mid 2011 to the absence of one now. Even allowing for changes in polling methodology, there is a big contrast.
Labour might be doing even worse if it wasn't for all the LabourLeave "wipe the smile off their faces" ads.
Yes I'm getting those and the chance to get rid of Osborne makes voting leave worth it by itself
I've been getting said ads for several days now. Must be my posting history
The irony is we are where we are now because of Cameron's fear UKIP would hurt the Conservatives more. I still wonder if he offered the referendum believing he would never have to deliver on the pledge.
Almost certainly.
Cameron and Osborne now wish that the Conservatives hadn't made any gains from the LibDems.
Ironic isn't it.
Yes Cameron promised a referendum to stop voters defecting to UKIP only to allow himself a majority and force a referendum which if he wins narrowly will see even more Tories defect to UKIP than if he had not promised it in the first place. Fortunately for him he will not be fighting the next election
Rather disappointed that the Icelandic team shirts show the players' patronymics rather than their first names which would be correct. The penalty scorer is properly known as Gylfi. The Icelanders should stand up for their own culture, which is to not have surnames.
My understanding is that Icelanders accept that outside Iceland, their patronymic is seen as their surname.
The irony is we are where we are now because of Cameron's fear UKIP would hurt the Conservatives more. I still wonder if he offered the referendum believing he would never have to deliver on the pledge.
Almost certainly.
Cameron and Osborne now wish that the Conservatives hadn't made any gains from the LibDems.
Ironic isn't it.
Oh how us Eurosceptic Tories laughed and Laughed...
I was having a chat with Mr Soames in 2010 just after the coalition was formed at a celebration.
I said the LDs would be arriving to the next parliament in a mini bus at best and he assured me they would be fine... I assured him they wouldn't.
I feel sorry for them because they did the right thing, but you can't buck reality.
Ready for next Thursday. All my assets except property moved out of Sterling and the UK. My bank in France say I'm not alone. They tell me brexit will mean parity with the euro and 1.1 to the dollar.
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
Many people suffer tragedies. They generally have to just get on with it while the world carries on as normal.
Indeed increasingly liberal policies since the cat went in the 1930s never mind the death penalty in the 1960s and a liberal focus on individual rights have paralleled more and more people sitting at home with loved ones maimed or dead or psychologically shattered at the hands of criminals who get more and more lenient sentences at the behest of a justice system seemingly more interested in human rights of villains.
Then on Thursday an MP suffers this fate. We then get public wailing and gnashing of teeth and full scale deification with civil life suspended for days.
Do you think that makes people feel we are all in it together or just reinforces the feeling that they care more about their own caste than ordinary people.
The correct reaction was defiance. The show should have gone on as Thatcher did after Brighton. Instead we have had grotesque wallowing in self pity. That will repulse the voters and they will pay on Thursday I suspect.
Facebook: absolutely filled to brim with friends gunning full-on for Remain. No sign of exploitation the murder at all. But two or three usually rational, and level-headed people, becoming highly emotional about Remain. All work in London in professional services/finance.
This is why you get so few City typgoing to vote for Leave and there are more people just keeping their heads down and keeping quiet despite management pressure to vote Remain.
Thanks. One of my friends was so aggressive, hysterical and rude - failing to engage with any of my points, just ranting at me - that I'm now not sure what to do.
I think i'll ignore him. Not sure there's any good to come from engagement.
Do what I
A lightly regulated, offshore market trading in all manner of "innovative" products. What could possibly go wrong?
Isn't that the City dream?
Don't be naughty Max. Even if it was. And we left. We would still be regulated to within an inch of our lives by the EU. But would have no lobbying, no rapporteur, no influence.
You are evidently a persuasive debater amongst your friends.
How does the ECB regulate an offshore market that uses synthetic clearing houses?
First, what does a synthetic clearing house mean? Second, it regulates us when we trade european stocks.
Does the USA regulate our trade in dollars?
Yes.
And do we get a say in how they do that?
Do we trade more dollars than New York?
Here's your task for next week.
1) go into a Barclays bank on the high street (UK bank, UK location) and open a USD account. 2) remit $10 to Hassan Rouhani. 3) sit back and see who regulates you.
Wouldn't that be legal now?
Haha yes the hand of friendship!!
The serious point is that we have no say over the rules of USD trading. Call it no sovereignty over what British banks in the UK can or can't do.
And @BenedictWhite is happy for us to give up to the ECB the same degree of sovereignty over our EUR transactions.
And I thought this whole thing was about sovereignty...
Comres suggesting what I suspected, the shooting will have little impact on committed Leavers but will convince enough undecideds to vote Remain for Remain to scrape home
Wishful thinking?
I do reckon Remainers have great faith (hope) that the murder will affect the result.
Mind you, if that causes them to neglect debate & reasoning (as opposed to insults, threats & doom mongering), then they should not complain when they end up like Kinnock in 92 or Paddy Ashdown in 2015.
Not wishful thinking but factual thinking, look at the numbers. Pre 2pm more people would have been delighted if Leave won and Relieved and upset and disappointed if Remain won, though they would have been anxious about a Leave win. After 2pm more people would still have been delighted if Leave won but a plurality would be terrified, anxious and upset about a Leave win, by a clear margin voters would be relieved if Remain won
All you see is fewer responses to LEAVE.
It may mean fewer LEAVE, or greater reluctance to say LEAVE.
REMAIN is getting carried away, which in itself is off putting. Easier to spite REMAIN with a vote than get drawn into 'games that people play'
Ready for next Thursday. All my assets except property moved out of Sterling and the UK. My bank in France say I'm not alone. They tell me brexit will mean parity with the euro and 1.1 to the dollar.
Glad I and my family have bought all our holiday euros at 1.26 then
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
So your nice Christian mum has contempt for someone who was murdered by someone who is reportedly on the same side of the argument as herself. Glad I'm an atheist. BTW You say 'Leave' in your first sentence, I guess you mean 'Remain'.
MaxB - What really concerns me about you and a few other right wing Brexiters is not that you want to REPLACE EU financial regulations with a better British approach but just get rid of the EU regulations full stop. Do you want our government to be regulating derivatives or do you think they can insure it all so cleverly this time that it could never go wrong?
Don't be silly, of course they would still be regulated, just by the FCA and BoE. Both of whom are better at it than the EBA and ECB. More regulation isn't better than the right regulation. Brown proved that with aplomb in 2007/8.
But what's the justification for saying they are better at it? Because it's the preference of people in the city? Bit like asking schoolkids if they prefer the teacher who's strict or the one who's a pushover.
In this case the teacher that knows what they are doing and wants to teach vs the teacher who is very strict but just has the students sit in silence all lesson learning nothing.
But again surely the BOE doesn't regulate certain things because the EU currently does it itself. You seem to want to escape Brussels regulation and just assume the BOE wouldn't be interested.
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
Do what I did, just deactivate and sit back. Better to spend the time campaigning with people that can be won over. You'd be surprised as to how many City employees can be won over with the facts:
1. If we lose passporting rights the trade doesn't disappear, our market just becomes deregulated and the BoE will stand behind EUR trading.
2. The ECB, Bundesbank and BdF are still going to be hostile to "Casino banking" while the BoE will take the same friendly approach.
3. Leaving will allow insurance companies to cast their nets towards LatAm and Asian markets, many of which are currently off limits.
4. The City will innovate. When the Fed tried to claim jurisdiction over global USD trading the City innovated and we still have huge USD trading. The idea that the ECB can regulate the City out of existence or destroy our EUR markets if we leave are a EU fantasy that they know are not close to reality.
A lightly regulated, offshore market trading in all manner of "innovative" products. What could possibly go wrong?
Isn't that the City dream?
And Britain's nightmare? Did you also suggest that the BOE would underwrite Euro assets? Why?
I find it extraordinary that people are able to contemplate risking so much. The misery that something going wrong would cause is almost unimiginable. I cannot believe this is a remotely serious proposition.
That depends on how bad you think the status quo is.
The danger is actually that natural "status quo remainders/reluctant pro EU voters" are so confused by the dire warnings of the consequences by both sides, that they decide to opt out of the vote so as not to bear any feeling of personal responsibility should the warnings by either side actually materialise.
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
Your mum was voting Leave anyway, the undecideds however will see a young mum brutally slain by an insane British nationalist and be a bit more shocked and appalled
Ready for next Thursday. All my assets except property moved out of Sterling and the UK. My bank in France say I'm not alone. They tell me brexit will mean parity with the euro and 1.1 to the dollar.
Buy shares in tinfoil.
Better start conversing in french, surely to become more widely spoken than english after thursday.
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
Spare the rod and spoil the child. You must have had a painful childhood at the hands of your less than compassionate Mum
First, what does a synthetic clearing house mean? Second, it regulates us when we trade european stocks.
Prime brokerages, they will self clear securities trades.
And what? Stock trades are bread and butter. It's derivatives trading that matters, I struggle to see how the City would continue to come under EU regulations, then again I'm not in regulations, yet the experts in our reports specifically outlined how being outside of EU regulations for derivatives would be a net gain for the City, again a reason why the Hedge funds back Leave.
What is the proportion of funds under management for hedge funds and institutional asset managers?
What do you mean "stock trades are bread and butter"?
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
So your nice Christian mum has contempt for someone who was murdered by someone who is reportedly on the same side of the argument as herself. Glad I'm an atheist. BTW You say 'Leave' in your first sentence, I guess you mean 'Remain'.
Yes I did mean Remain, I was unable to edit it.
She does not have contempt for someone who was murdered. She has contempt for those on the liberal left who have the career path of Jo Cox and if she was aware of Jo Cox before her murder would have felt the same way. The murder is irrelevant to the view of what Jo Cox represents to people like my mother.
It seems, like tyson, you are more concerned with putting fingers in ears and not considering how to address sentiment like my mothers. All I am doing is reporting how someone in middle Scotland of a particularly middle class, small c conservative bent views what has happened in the hope people will appreciate it adding to the discussion over how the Referendum will go.
MaxB - What really concerns me about you and a few other right wing Brexiters is not that you want to REPLACE EU financial regulations with a better British approach but just get rid of the EU regulations full stop. Do you want our government to be regulating derivatives or do you think they can insure it all so cleverly this time that it could never go wrong?
Don't be silly, of course they would still be regulated, just by the FCA and BoE. Both of whom are better at it than the EBA and ECB. More regulation isn't better than the right regulation. Brown proved that with aplomb in 2007/8.
But what's the justification for saying they are better at it? Because it's the preference of people in the city? Bit like asking schoolkids if they prefer the teacher who's strict or the one who's a pushover.
In this case the teacher that knows what they are doing and wants to teach vs the teacher who is very strict but just has the students sit in silence all lesson learning nothing.
But again surely the BOE doesn't regulate certain things because the EU currently does it itself. You seem to want to escape Brussels regulation and just assume the BOE wouldn't be interested.
Not in the slightest, if we left I fully believe that the BoE and FCA would undertake regulations of all City functions. I just believe they'd do it better and be less hostile.
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
Spare the rod and spoil the child. You must have had a painful childhood at the hands of your less than compassionate Mum
I have taken an immediate liking to Lowlander's Mum.
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
Spare the rod and spoil the child. You must have had a painful childhood at the hands of your less than compassionate Mum
Was there any need to respond by insulting his mother?
Ready for next Thursday. All my assets except property moved out of Sterling and the UK. My bank in France say I'm not alone. They tell me brexit will mean parity with the euro and 1.1 to the dollar.
Buy shares in tinfoil.
Better start conversing in french, surely to become more widely spoken than english after thursday.
Methinks some bankers are set to make lots of money on Friday whatever the result
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.
Don't let the opprobrium from our resident muppets put you off posting here. I don't think you need to use safe space warnings here mind. It's a mostly adult audience, though you might occasionally find that hard to believe .
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
So your nice Christian mum has contempt for someone who was murdered by someone who is reportedly on the same side of the argument as herself. Glad I'm an atheist. BTW You say 'Leave' in your first sentence, I guess you mean 'Remain'.
Lowlander has hit the spot. My wife a committed Remanian cannot bear Jo Cox ever present smile anymore. This whole Dianavication of MP Cox is turning many people off. The shock of the murder is giving way hatred of the way the political and MSM elite have tried to attach Cox's death to the referendum
First, what does a synthetic clearing house mean? Second, it regulates us when we trade european stocks.
Prime brokerages, they will self clear securities trades.
And what? Stock trades are bread and butter. It's derivatives trading that matters, I struggle to see how the City would continue to come under EU regulations, then again I'm not in regulations, yet the experts in our reports specifically outlined how being outside of EU regulations for derivatives would be a net gain for the City, again a reason why the Hedge funds back Leave.
What is the proportion of funds under management for hedge funds and institutional asset managers?
What do you mean "stock trades are bread and butter"?
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
Your mum was voting Leave anyway, the undecideds however will see a young mum brutally slain by an insane British nationalist and be a bit more shocked and appalled
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
[snip much self righteous bollocks]
There is no place for this kind of comment here.
The view from your high horse must be tremendous.
How could anyone show contempt for a defenceless young mum shot, stabbed, kicked to death as she goes about her job. And the reason, because she was supportive of migrants.
The fact that you rush to his defence is pretty grim to be honest. In fact it is worse than grim.
Your mum strikes me as a particularly vile and unpleasant person.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
She is neither vile nor unpleasant. But she is representative of middle Scotland to whom someone like Jo Cox does not relate well. In her words Cox "never did a days work in her life", working for Oxfam who she believes is a wealth creation scheme for those who work there (and its hard to argue it is not). She may or may not be right about this but those are her views and I suspect views that a lot of people share about the political elite, especially those on the Labour side who are increasingly completely unrepresentative of Labour voters or members (hence their shock and Corbyn's counter-coup.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.
Don't let the opprobrium from our resident muppets put you off posting here. I don't think you need to use safe space warnings here mind. It's a mostly adult audience, though you might occasionally find that hard to believe .
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
Your mum was voting Leave anyway, the undecideds however will see a young mum brutally slain by an insane British nationalist and be a bit more shocked and appalled
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
So your nice Christian mum has contempt for someone who was murdered by someone who is reportedly on the same side of the argument as herself. Glad I'm an atheist. BTW You say 'Leave' in your first sentence, I guess you mean 'Remain'.
Yes I did mean Remain, I was unable to edit it.
She does not have contempt for someone who was murdered. She has contempt for those on the liberal left who have the career path of Jo Cox and if she was aware of Jo Cox before her murder would have felt the same way. The murder is irrelevant to the view of what Jo Cox represents to people like my mother.
.
"I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy."
Perhaps you should have been more careful in your posting if you didn't mean it...
Re Westminster VI, I am not at all surprised that Labour is sub 30% in the context of its stance on the referendum vote.
Yet Labour have cut the Tories lead from 7% at the general election to 5% now as the Tories have lost even more voters to UKIP than Labour
It's midterm, duh.
The UKIP vote will only rise further after a narrow Remain
UKIP hurt Labour more at the last GE than tories.
Only because Leave backing Tories voted Tory to get a referendum if they lose the referendum many will not be voting Tory again
I'd like to think that most peoples political views take in more than just Europe. Anyone that one dimensional should join ukip...with all the stigma attached to that.
Comments
One person mentioned it at work on Thursday.
But since then nothing.
I've heard innumerable conversations about football though.
And that's the usual state of affairs.
As always we're at risk of being trapped in a PB bubble.
London of course almost collapsed post not accepting the Euro... except it didn't did it?
You don't happen to have a brother called Will do you?
I felt sorry for Jo cox family
There's quite a gap between the two emotions. Ones very personal and takes your head out for a couple of weeks, the other while still appealing to the emotions doesn't stop you looking at the world around you.
The voters of Eastbourne blew them a huge raspberry...
And what? Stock trades are bread and butter. It's derivatives trading that matters, I struggle to see how the City would continue to come under EU regulations, then again I'm not in regulations, yet the experts in our reports specifically outlined how being outside of EU regulations for derivatives would be a net gain for the City, again a reason why the Hedge funds back Leave.
I will, of course, be incredibly disappointed. We won't be allowed another referendum. But I've had other disappointments in my life; this won't even be anything close to the worst.
'No it does not as the polling would have continued well after the final whistle and most people would have been at work when the match was on even if they were not watching it
The fact that only 10% of the sample was contacted from 2pm onwards suggest to me that the polling did not last that long after the final whistle. The game was big enough, and appealing very much to a particular demographic, to be quite capable of biasing the sample. And as the pre/post 2pm split was clearly an afterthought by ComRes, there won't have been any special weighting within this sub-break to compensate for that bias.'
If anything post 2pm on a weekday the most likely to be contactable are pensioners and the unemployed and stay at home mothers who lean Leave, albeit with a few Remain leaning students
What do you mean "stock trades are bread and butter"?
It's not so much an open goal as the Conservative party has vacated the pitch and Corbyn is still scoring own goals.
Look at what they do not they say. Everything the remain politicians are doing indicates capitulauion.
Theyve got private polling, canvas returns and postal ballot peeks (with only two boxes not up to over a dozen it will be much easier to sneak a peek)
That it would be difficult to regulate the City out of it, and given the relative sizes of the markets in London and other EU markets they would have to be insane to put a "must be in the EU" regulation in place. I imagine we'd take it to the WTO as well.
Do we trade more dollars than New York?
Why don't the lazy sods do a chi-squared test to measure significance?
If I were commissioning a pollster, I'd want hard significance measures where possible, not hedging crap such as "it is possible" that X varies enough from Y, and "it is also intuitive to assume...even if only marginal".
Here's a snippet.
I don't think that debates change views much, though they may confirm them. The risk to either side is a major gaffe. Most likely to play out as a nil nil draw.
When the blackest of black swans hit, I was very much of the mind that it would swing things towards Leave. However, it appears this is less likely than I thought. On speaking to my no voting mother, it appears that Jo Cox is just the sort of leftie that the small c conservative middle really do not like much.
My mum's actually angry at the level of deification and coverage that its getting and its making her an even more committed leaver (of course, she has already postal voted Leave for both herself and my father). But as the only Christian (and a committed one) in my family and one of the nicest people you might meet, I was absolutely flabbergasted by the level of contempt she had for a victim of a horrible tragedy.
I'm now of a mind that the very idea that Jo Cox awful murder might have the exact opposite effect to what the Westminster bubble have expected (and I had expected myself) and it might harden Leave still further.
1) go into a Barclays bank on the high street (UK bank, UK location) and open a USD account.
2) remit $10 to Hassan Rouhani.
3) sit back and see who regulates you.
Change will lance this boil - somehow. It offers hope.
No change = no hope.
Cameron and Osborne now wish that the Conservatives hadn't made any gains from the LibDems.
Ironic isn't it.
During the banking crash one bank lost $20 million. They laughed about it of course... but that was it.
Two years before the Lebanese central bank used its supervisory power to tell its banks US banks were going bust and to get out. A $200 million bond with Wachovia matured the day before it went bust.
So more or less regulation is a stupid argument. Better or worse is the correct one. Shorter is usually better also.
How could she have contempt for Jo Cox? She was horribly and brutally murdered by a man who repeatedly kicked her and stabbed her as he shot her and she was dying. She has two young children that will never know their mother. In her last months she was abused, intimidated and harassed simply because she was compassionate about asylum seekers.
I have seen some disgusting posts on this site....but I think yours has just won the trophy. You know something...your post has really quite upset me. I hope it is taken off this site. There is no place for this kind of comment here.
I was having a chat with Mr Soames in 2010 just after the coalition was formed at a celebration.
I said the LDs would be arriving to the next parliament in a mini bus at best and he assured me they would be fine... I assured him they wouldn't.
I feel sorry for them because they did the right thing, but you can't buck reality.
Indeed increasingly liberal policies since the cat went in the 1930s never mind the death penalty in the 1960s and a liberal focus on individual rights have paralleled more and more people sitting at home with loved ones maimed or dead or psychologically shattered at the hands of criminals who get more and more lenient sentences at the behest of a justice system seemingly more interested in human rights of villains.
Then on Thursday an MP suffers this fate. We then get public wailing and gnashing of teeth and full scale deification with civil life suspended for days.
Do you think that makes people feel we are all in it together or just reinforces the feeling that they care more about their own caste than ordinary people.
The correct reaction was defiance. The show should have gone on as Thatcher did after Brighton. Instead we have had grotesque wallowing in self pity. That will repulse the voters and they will pay on Thursday I suspect.
The serious point is that we have no say over the rules of USD trading. Call it no sovereignty over what British banks in the UK can or can't do.
And @BenedictWhite is happy for us to give up to the ECB the same degree of sovereignty over our EUR transactions.
And I thought this whole thing was about sovereignty...
It may mean fewer LEAVE, or greater reluctance to say LEAVE.
REMAIN is getting carried away, which in itself is off putting. Easier to spite REMAIN with a vote than get drawn into 'games that people play'
BTW You say 'Leave' in your first sentence, I guess you mean 'Remain'.
You were warned the post was not a Safe Space. It was your choice to read on. but if you insist on blocking out any view that you do not agree with or any report of the wider world beyond your rose tinted glasses, then you are utterly typical of the liberal left who think sweeping issues under the carpet deals with those issues when it clear does not.
:-)
Better start conversing in french, surely to become more widely spoken than english
after thursday.
She does not have contempt for someone who was murdered. She has contempt for those on the liberal left who have the career path of Jo Cox and if she was aware of Jo Cox before her murder would have felt the same way. The murder is irrelevant to the view of what Jo Cox represents to people like my mother.
It seems, like tyson, you are more concerned with putting fingers in ears and not considering how to address sentiment like my mothers. All I am doing is reporting how someone in middle Scotland of a particularly middle class, small c conservative bent views what has happened in the hope people will appreciate it adding to the discussion over how the Referendum will go.
Europe trading = approx EUR70bn/day.
The fact that you rush to his defence is pretty grim to be honest. In fact it is worse than grim.
Perhaps you should have been more careful in your posting if you didn't mean it...