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you're on the wrong site m8 - only full blown conspiracy theories allowed. Nutjobs rule!!Big_G_NorthWales said:My wife and I both listened to Sarah Wollaston on both BBC and Sky this morning and she expressed in a quiet and competent manner how she has been torn by the debate and that she had been influenced by her Father, family and constituents that remain was the correct decision on economic grounds for the NHS, National security, and how she had been concerned over the debate on immigration. My wife commented that she seemed to express the views of many in this referendum, that were wrestling with their choice, and that she had made a brave decision to change her mind. It is more than possible that many voters will do the same as their pen is poised over the ballot paper. For those on here who see a conspiracy there is none - just for once an MP wrestling with her conscience and making a decision that she believes in and is comfortable with
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Oborne on DC and GO trashing the brand
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3632360/PETER-OBORNE-Unpatriotic-PM-stop-talking-country-down.html
"At the heart of Mr Cameron’s argument is the claim that the British people face the choice between a ‘Great Britain’ inside the EU or a ‘little England’ outside.
The implication of this trite and pre-rehearsed soundbite is that Great Britain can continue only if it is propped up by the European Union."0 -
?matt said:
Didn't see you as someone who'd visit the Admiral Duncan.blackburn63 said:In a pub in London yesterday I was engaged in conversation by a young Asian lad, 20s, who enthusiastically asked me about the referendum. I said I was firmly for OUT and he was genuinely puzzled why I was voting for something that would trash the economy and lose jobs.
Project Fear has worked but will these young people vote?0 -
YouGov did a poll (admittedly a couple of months ago) looking at how people would vote in the referendum by newspaper. Guardian (unsurprisingly) was top. Express (unsurprisingly) was bottom. Times readers supported remain by about 2:1. The split wasn't really left-right as such but tabloid (leave) vs broadsheet (remain). The one exception was that Telegraph readers were slightly more leave than the Mirror.PlatoSaid said:
The thousand+ comments a day in the Times aren't pro-Remain. There's huge concern over immigration, culture erosion, Merkel's Migrants et al. Their articles tend to be much more keen on Remain. I still expect them to come out for Remain - as a balance for the Sun.FrankBooth said:
The Times would be going against its own readers if it backed leave. So why would they do it?Brom said:The problem is the average voter has no idea who Sarah Wollaston is and it won't really have an impact on too many opinions. If remain can get a household name (at least one not too disliked!) to defect it will be a different story. I think it's pretty clear she's angling for the health post if Cameron wins and Hunt goes (as expected), she's weighed up the odds but hasn't really given a reason for suddenly changing her mind that the public can buy into.
It's interesting the Times and Mail kept this story to a minimum and talked up John Nott more. I had considered these papers might back remain due to recent flirting but it seems likely they will go Leave which is a big boost for the out campaign.0 -
All fart and no follow through is Mr Banks and Farage on their legal actions.CarlottaVance said:Arron Banks, the co-founder of Leave.EU, put out a statement this morning saying he was thinking of taking legal action to try to stop the government extending the deadline for voter registration. He suggested this could involve challenging the result of the referendum after 23 June.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/09/eu-referendum-live-wollaston-remain-vote-leave-sturgeon-johnson?CMP=twt_a-politics_b-gdnukpolitics0 -
I can't remember where I read the article but if I recall it was something along the lines that John Major, the PM and George Osborne have been meeting to discuss the future of the party. It was intimated that they are going to destroy the party and from the ashes will rise this modern, pro-Europe party. This probably ties in with the rumours about a cull of parliamentary candidates that don't fit into this objective. Even if this is only partly true and it seems to fit in with what is going on, then it is truly brutal.PlatoSaid said:
TBH, I find the gleeful dancing on the grave of a broken and divided Party really strange. It's a truly Pyrrhic victory for Remain. There's nothing clever in stoking the pyres with cleverdick smuggery and insults.Casino_Royale said:
Most of us knew from Day One that TSE was always going to go for Remain.Richard_Tyndall said:
No you really aren't. You forget we have all watched your progression into the Remain camp over the last few months and it has been very obvious that you are putting party first.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm putting the county first. Country before party.Richard_Tyndall said:
Well since I am not a Tory your point is..... pointless. I would be very pleased to be on the same side as Benn (senior) on many issues, not just the EU.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah but if he was alive you'd be on the same side as Tony Benn.Richard_Tyndall said:
Just goes to show how far you have sold out.TheScreamingEagles said:Bloody hell. Looks like I'll be hitting the streets of Leeds with not one, but two members of the Benn family next week.
These are strange times.
You on the other hand have sold out. Even you know it.
The only good thing is that the one thing you are desperate to save is going to be destroyed by the whole affair. So there is some justice in the world.
And for similar reasons to Matthew Parris.
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my membership will not be renewed.
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Exactly, Wollaston has raised her profile, done Cameron a favour. It's win/win for her. The fact she was never rolled out by the leave campaign given her 'NHS credentials' suggested she was never fully committed or they never trusted her.Jobabob said:So the Doctor Defector story is currently the lead on:
BBC News
ITV News
Sky News
Granted, Wollaston is from the far left of the Tory Party so in that regard was always non-standard Leave fodder. But she is also a rebellious sort, being no great fan of Cameron. She is also widely respected as a professional in her own right, was chosen in an open primary by her own constituent, and is a solid expert supporter of the NHS. Few people would've heard of her until yesterday. Now they have.0 -
Jobabob said:
So the Doctor Defector story is currently the lead on:
BBC News
ITV News
Sky News
Granted, Wollaston is from the far left of the Tory Party so in that regard was always non-standard Leave fodder. But she is also a rebellious sort, being no great fan of Cameron. She is also widely respected as a professional in her own right, was chosen in an open primary by her own constituent, and is a solid expert supporter of the NHS. Few people would've heard of her until yesterday. Now they have.
Indeed. It's all very co-ordinated, isn't it?
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Do you think it might be the charm of some of the LEAVErs that's nudged them over the line?blackburn63 said:Regardless of the outcome I'm still surprised that some of the most ardent Remainers on here were undecided until recently.
Sheep.0 -
She looks and sounds like a normal and reasonable nice lady. And she is getting lots and lots of airtime to express her views as a perfectly normal, educated change of mind. The fact that she is in probably the most respected profession in the country as an NHS doctor is bad news for Leave.Brom said:The problem is the average voter has no idea who Sarah Wollaston is and it won't really have an impact on too many opinions. If remain can get a household name (at least one not too disliked!) to defect it will be a different story. I think it's pretty clear she's angling for the health post if Cameron wins and Hunt goes (as expected), she's weighed up the odds but hasn't really given a reason for suddenly changing her mind that the public can buy into.
It's interesting the Times and Mail kept this story to a minimum and talked up John Nott more. I had considered these papers might back remain due to recent flirting but it seems likely they will go Leave which is a big boost for the out campaign.0 -
That's one interpretation. My interpretation is that Jezza is utterly uselessGIN1138 said:I suspect Sturgeon's effect will mainly be to show up Corbyn to Labour supporters. She is a very effective political operator The comparisons with Corbyn who seems to be nowhere aren't flattering.
That's because Jezza is been a "outer" for 40 years and would obviously be campaigning for OUT if he could.0 -
She doesn't suit your narrative. Many outside the bubble will sympathise with her struggle and and may or may not change their own minds on her comments.Brom said:I struggle to see how some people are saying "she seems so genuine, i truly believe her". She could easily just abstain or have made the same decision weeks ago but she's gone very public just as Cameron needs to pull a rabbit out. The idea that she has had some eureka moment after weighing up the facts (the same facts that have been in the public sphere for weeks) is naive in my opinion.
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except an NHS doctor who quit to become a Tory. Not quite the same ring to it no?Jobabob said:
She looks and sounds like a normal and reasonable nice lady. And she is getting lots and lots of airtime to express her views as a perfectly normal, educated change of mind. The fact that she is in probably the most respected profession in the country as an NHS doctor is bad news for Leave.Brom said:The problem is the average voter has no idea who Sarah Wollaston is and it won't really have an impact on too many opinions. If remain can get a household name (at least one not too disliked!) to defect it will be a different story. I think it's pretty clear she's angling for the health post if Cameron wins and Hunt goes (as expected), she's weighed up the odds but hasn't really given a reason for suddenly changing her mind that the public can buy into.
It's interesting the Times and Mail kept this story to a minimum and talked up John Nott more. I had considered these papers might back remain due to recent flirting but it seems likely they will go Leave which is a big boost for the out campaign.0 -
TGOHF said:
Yes they have everything they need apart from the support of the MPs, the members and the campaigners.Jobabob said:
Cameron and Ozzy have set their sights on not just victory but complete destruction of the eurosceptics and the rightwing of the party. As you say, it's going to brutal.LadyBucket said:If you listen to Sarah Wollaston's speeches, there is no way you would think she was a tory. She is just another dripping wet Liberal. If she doesn't get a front bench job after this, then hopefully she will defect and take her sugar tax with her. But, then the PM, has also been converted into supporting this ridiculous tax. She has probably been promised something in
this, it has got No 10 fingerprints all over it.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
It's beyond wilful blindness. A Party leader and PM/top team can't actively insult its voters and members like this.
I certainly won't be. It's attacking our core beliefs in Britain - it's a red line that can't be uncrossed.0 -
Isabel Hardman:
Sarah Wollaston’s defection to Remain is a blow to the Leave campaign, whatever some of its supporters might say. The Tory MP is notoriously independently-minded, and unafraid of changing her mind, too, which makes her a rare species in Westminster. She is also totally uninterested in a government job, which makes it more difficult for her former allies to claim that she is just jumping ship in order to gain a cosy ministerial position. And Leave made a big song and dance about signing her up in the first place, which makes it even more difficult to claim that her change of heart means nothing.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/sarah-wollastons-defection-remain-really-blow-leave/0 -
or maybe the fact that she isn't genuine doesn't suit your narrative. Clearly Cameron can do no wrong!Big_G_NorthWales said:
She doesn't suit your narrative. Many outside the bubble will sympathise with her struggle and and may or may not change their own minds on her comments.Brom said:I struggle to see how some people are saying "she seems so genuine, i truly believe her". She could easily just abstain or have made the same decision weeks ago but she's gone very public just as Cameron needs to pull a rabbit out. The idea that she has had some eureka moment after weighing up the facts (the same facts that have been in the public sphere for weeks) is naive in my opinion.
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There is a contradictory attitude, but you didn't refer to that one, you referred to a quote which was saying Sturgeon might go down poorly and saying you don't recall that happening before with Cameron, when it did. If I was being torturous, it was because your critique was torturous!Theuniondivvie said:
I didn't make a specific objection, just highlighted a rather contradictory attitude to the two situations. Also, as you allude to somewhat tortuously, there is a difference between a politician with no vote lecturing an electorate, and one with a vote taking part in a debate about how we all should vote, particularly when the latter is willing to engage with their fellow voters.kle4 said:
You don't remember very well then - the quote was 'Sturgeon lecturing England is going to go down like a bucket of cold sick', not that it is unreasonable she do it (though some people may also think that, unfairly, since this is a UK vote and of course she can appeal to everyone) but that it will go down poorly with the targeted audience, and I remember distinctly endless comments that anything Cameron said, or indeed anything any Westminster politician said, would go down like a bucket of cold sick in Scotland. We see it to this day in fact.Theuniondivvie said:
I don't remember similar objections to Cameron et al lecturing Scotland two years ago.midwinter said:
I don't like the Posh Boys spiel. Its boring and ineffective but agree that Sturgeon lecturing England is going to go down like a bucket of cold sick. Could be leaves secret weapon.GIN1138 said:So the Posh Boys have been smearing the English as "Little Englander's" and then tonight Nicola is going to go an telly to lecture and patronize the English.
Should be interesting....
So in fact exactly those objections were made to Cameron lecturing Scotland. If you want to complain about people objecting to a Scot lecturing the English vs a Englishman lecturing the Scots, that is an entirely different objection to the one you, er, objected to.
Sturgeon's 'bucket of cold sick' quotient may be rather lower outside the PB Torysphere.
'Poll shows Sturgeon is now the most popular politician across Britain
The poll, conducted during the middle of this month, shows that across Britain Ms Sturgeon has the highest net approval rating of +33; a record for TNS. She is followed by Ukip's Nigel Farage on +12, Conservative leader David Cameron on +7, Labour leader Ed Miliband on -8 and Liberal Democrat leader Nick Clegg on -22.
Among men, she has the highest net rating of +32 and among women of +35. Similarly, she tops ratings across every different age group from +17 among 18 to 24-year-olds to +43 among over 65s.
In every part of Britain,the First Minister is also top of the polling from +30 in north-east England to +38 in Wales and the West Country and +33 in Greater London.'
http://tinyurl.com/j4ekj2l
As it is I think she is popular and well respected. I think she can appeal across the country on an issue like this in this scenario, though it isn't guaranteed. The GE was different as her competence and popularity was part of the problem for many voters, as it meant SNP influence on things they didn't want the SNP to have influence on. Whereas this really is a cross cutting issue where her reasons for remaining should apply elsehwhere too and she won't be any more or less powerful if English voters support the same position as her.0 -
But the Master did exactly that with the Labour party. Splitting parties very risky under our system. Owen Jones, who can be a bit annoying at times, wrote a very good piece and video on it the other day.Sean_F said:
If that is the strategy, then that will knock the Conservatives into third place, in terms of national vote share. UKIP, plus Eurosceptic Conservatives, are 30% of the voters.Jobabob said:
Cameron and Ozzy have set their sights on not just victory but complete destruction of the eurosceptics and the rightwing of the party. As you say, it's going to brutal.LadyBucket said:If you listen to Sarah Wollaston's speeches, there is no way you would think she was a tory. She is just another dripping wet Liberal. If she doesn't get a front bench job after this, then hopefully she will defect and take her sugar tax with her. But, then the PM, has also been converted into supporting this ridiculous tax. She has probably been promised something in
this, it has got No 10 fingerprints all over it.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.0 -
Lol - the panic on here from [some of] the Leavers on here is most entertaining - they seem to be determined to keep the headlights on Dr. Sarah - perhaps they need to consider if that is really a good tactic.MarkHopkins said:Jobabob said:So the Doctor Defector story is currently the lead on:
BBC News
ITV News
Sky News
Granted, Wollaston is from the far left of the Tory Party so in that regard was always non-standard Leave fodder. But she is also a rebellious sort, being no great fan of Cameron. She is also widely respected as a professional in her own right, was chosen in an open primary by her own constituent, and is a solid expert supporter of the NHS. Few people would've heard of her until yesterday. Now they have.
Indeed. It's all very co-ordinated, isn't it.0 -
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True. ALthough now even if she deserves a job she'll be pilloried for taking it.Scott_P said:@IsabelHardman: Most absurd accusation against Wollaston is that she's doing this for a job. Those saying that should google her name and "patronage".
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you do realise political betting doesnt set the news agenda? anyway do you really think her defection can wrestle the polls back in remain's favour? time is running out!felix said:
Lol - the panic on here from [some of] the Leavers on here is most entertaining - they seem to be determined to keep the headlights on Dr. Sarah - perhaps they need to consider if that is really a good tactic.MarkHopkins said:Jobabob said:So the Doctor Defector story is currently the lead on:
BBC News
ITV News
Sky News
Granted, Wollaston is from the far left of the Tory Party so in that regard was always non-standard Leave fodder. But she is also a rebellious sort, being no great fan of Cameron. She is also widely respected as a professional in her own right, was chosen in an open primary by her own constituent, and is a solid expert supporter of the NHS. Few people would've heard of her until yesterday. Now they have.
Indeed. It's all very co-ordinated, isn't it.0 -
You make my point well. It's nothing to do with policy or principles to you lot, its about which anonymous person is impolite on the internet.CarlottaVance said:
Do you think it might be the charm of some of the LEAVErs that's nudged them over the line?blackburn63 said:Regardless of the outcome I'm still surprised that some of the most ardent Remainers on here were undecided until recently.
Sheep.
You are superficial, easily led. Sheep.0 -
I don't see how a voter can be called a hypocrite. Am I missing something? Or are we doing a Humpty-Dumpty?felix said:
Lol - or that she's a hypocrite.GIN1138 said:
Just goes to show Ms. Plato has a good record of backing "winners" but know's when the time is right to disembark when they become "losers"...felix said:
Says the ex ~Blair babe soon to be ex CameroonianPlatoSaid said:
Quite. The language and tactics are visceral stuff - no one who was a bit half hearted would swap sides, deploy insulting language or demean fellow Party members like this.GIN1138 said:Did Mr "Parochial" Hague ever believe any of that "save the pound" and "I'll give you back your country" stuff from 97-01? Seems to me it was all an act because he'd got nothing else to say (because John Major had destroyed the Tories in 1992 when he presided over the house repossession meltdown across Middle England)
I can cope with people like Clarke and Heseltine who have never tried to hide their true beliefs. The real villains are people like Hague and Cameron who have spent decades pretending to be one thing and it turns out it was all a lie...
Upthread someone mentioned that Woollaston was an Awkward Squadder - I think she's gone beyond that, she's in Team UnReliable. One can be awkward, and consistent. You can't chop and change and expect to be trusted.
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@Reuters: UK MP withdraws support for 'Out' campaign over EU argument https://t.co/LaDsioCMMG https://t.co/S1pL6iwxiR0
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In real life, it's called writing down the pros and cons.Sandpit said:
That's very good strategy for important decisions, especially so when it's either a very close call or you're 110% sure and think the other side must be mad. The process of researching and writing down the both sides will rationalise your own decision making.Philip_Thompson said:
If I was Boris I might have drafted one for each side for two reasons.TheScreamingEagles said:
Boris has refused to deny he wrote a second column backing Remain.Philip_Thompson said:
What inconsistency from Boris and Gove? They held a line based on cabinet collective responsibility until Cameron finished his "renegotiation" and then announced they'd be campaigning to leave and have been consistent ever since.Scott_P said:@DPJHodges: If Vote Leave want to attack Wollaston for political inconsistency, fine. But then surely they also have to attack Boris and Gove as well.
That's professional, not inconsistent.
Firstly: Cameron may have come back with a much better renegotiation. He didn't.
But mainly: It's a difficult and serious decision. Putting your thinking down in writing for both sides helps crystalise it and make you seriously think about the logic and ensure you're making the right call.
I've done that before taking major decisions in the past.
The best attended debate at the uni deb soc 20 years ago was always the annual take-the-other-side debate, usually on something particularly entrenched or controversial. The Christian Union vs the Feminist Society, each arguing the other side of the abortion debate was a very memorable and thought provoking evening.
I've done that for a couple of big decisions I've made, and it really helped.0 -
EDIT. I can't believe they ran this over the Nott story...Scott_P said:@Reuters: UK MP withdraws support for 'Out' campaign over EU argument https://t.co/LaDsioCMMG https://t.co/S1pL6iwxiR
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You can take the Daily Mail leave for granted. It is lucky it is still being delivered daily to our house but we are optimists and are intrigued to see their narrative post 23rd June, irrespective of the resultBrom said:
The Mail like backing a winner, they tried to dismantle UKIP last year despite the views of their readers. When they lead with Farage and the race questions after the Q&A this week people may have wondered if they were wavering, but they then switched to Cameron and his immigration failings. As you say the MOS and it's editor are very pro remain, so you can't take any newspaper for granted until the week of the vote.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you serious about the Daily Mail. It has been so Brexit for so long it has lost all balance as has all their columnists. The Mail would not want to talk about this story. However, the strange thing is that the Mail on Sunday is very much pro remain.FrankBooth said:
The Times would be going against its own readers if it backed leave. So why would they do it?Brom said:The problem is the average voter has no idea who Sarah Wollaston is and it won't really have an impact on too many opinions. If remain can get a household name (at least one not too disliked!) to defect it will be a different story. I think it's pretty clear she's angling for the health post if Cameron wins and Hunt goes (as expected), she's weighed up the odds but hasn't really given a reason for suddenly changing her mind that the public can buy into.
It's interesting the Times and Mail kept this story to a minimum and talked up John Nott more. I had considered these papers might back remain due to recent flirting but it seems likely they will go Leave which is a big boost for the out campaign.0 -
Quite.GIN1138 said:
I have had a very similar trajectory to Ms Plato.felix said:
Lol - or that she's a hypocrite.GIN1138 said:
Just goes to show Ms. Plato has a good record of backing "winners" but know's when the time is right to disembark when they become "losers"...felix said:
Says the ex ~Blair babe soon to be ex CameroonianPlatoSaid said:
Quite. The language and tactics are visceral stuff - no one who was a bit half hearted would swap sides, deploy insulting language or demean fellow Party members like this.GIN1138 said:Did Mr "Parochial" Hague ever believe any of that "save the pound" and "I'll give you back your country" stuff from 97-01? Seems to me it was all an act because he'd got nothing else to say (because John Major had destroyed the Tories in 1992 when he presided over the house repossession meltdown across Middle England)
I can cope with people like Clarke and Heseltine who have never tried to hide their true beliefs. The real villains are people like Hague and Cameron who have spent decades pretending to be one thing and it turns out it was all a lie...
Upthread someone mentioned that Woollaston was an Awkward Squadder - I think she's gone beyond that, she's in Team UnReliable. One can be awkward, and consistent. You can't chop and change and expect to be trusted.
1997 Labour
2001 (didn't bother)
2005 Lib-Dem
2010 Conservative
2015 Conservative
2020 (no idea except it almost certainly won't be Con)
There are actually a surprising number of "hypocrites" who change their voting preferences with the changing time's.
1987 Tory
1992 Lib Dem as protest
1997 Labour
2001 Labour
2005 Labour but very reluctant
2010 Tory
2015 Tory
Now I'm feeling rather homeless.
I see Woollaston is wall to wall media interviews. She makes Reckless look principled.0 -
And quite possibly they're missing the voters too.TGOHF said:
Yes they have everything they need apart from the support of the MPs, the members and the campaigners.Jobabob said:
Cameron and Ozzy have set their sights on not just victory but complete destruction of the eurosceptics and the rightwing of the party. As you say, it's going to brutal.LadyBucket said:If you listen to Sarah Wollaston's speeches, there is no way you would think she was a tory. She is just another dripping wet Liberal. If she doesn't get a front bench job after this, then hopefully she will defect and take her sugar tax with her. But, then the PM, has also been converted into supporting this ridiculous tax. She has probably been promised something in
this, it has got No 10 fingerprints all over it.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
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Yes - you are missing something.John_M said:
I don't see how a voter can be called a hypocrite. Am I missing something? Or are we doing a Humpty-Dumpty?felix said:
Lol - or that she's a hypocrite.GIN1138 said:
Just goes to show Ms. Plato has a good record of backing "winners" but know's when the time is right to disembark when they become "losers"...felix said:
Says the ex ~Blair babe soon to be ex CameroonianPlatoSaid said:
Quite. The language and tactics are visceral stuff - no one who was a bit half hearted would swap sides, deploy insulting language or demean fellow Party members like this.GIN1138 said:Did Mr "Parochial" Hague ever believe any of that "save the pound" and "I'll give you back your country" stuff from 97-01? Seems to me it was all an act because he'd got nothing else to say (because John Major had destroyed the Tories in 1992 when he presided over the house repossession meltdown across Middle England)
I can cope with people like Clarke and Heseltine who have never tried to hide their true beliefs. The real villains are people like Hague and Cameron who have spent decades pretending to be one thing and it turns out it was all a lie...
Upthread someone mentioned that Woollaston was an Awkward Squadder - I think she's gone beyond that, she's in Team UnReliable. One can be awkward, and consistent. You can't chop and change and expect to be trusted.0 -
Kin hell, I thought Dr Wollaston was a Westminster bubble story, but this makes me think Leave are really worried about the mother of all shellackings
@LouiseMensch: Sarah Wollaston @SarahWollaston is a gutless coward who has been deleting her anti-EU tweets. Stop lying to the public Sarah #Brexit0 -
Clearly if someone changes their mind and goes to another camp it's a blow for the side they're leaving (the exception is that Quinton guy who left the Tories for Labour - They were genuinely glad to be shut of him I think)CarlottaVance said:Isabel Hardman:
Sarah Wollaston’s defection to Remain is a blow to the Leave campaign, whatever some of its supporters might say. The Tory MP is notoriously independently-minded, and unafraid of changing her mind, too, which makes her a rare species in Westminster. She is also totally uninterested in a government job, which makes it more difficult for her former allies to claim that she is just jumping ship in order to gain a cosy ministerial position. And Leave made a big song and dance about signing her up in the first place, which makes it even more difficult to claim that her change of heart means nothing.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/sarah-wollastons-defection-remain-really-blow-leave/
But the saving grace for LEAVE is that most people won't have the first idea who she is....0 -
Why is she deleting her tweets then? What is she afraid of?TheScreamingEagles said:Kin hell, I thought Dr Wollaston was a Westminster bubble story, but this makes me think Leave are really worried about the mother of all shellackings
@LouiseMensch: Sarah Wollaston @SarahWollaston is a gutless coward who has been deleting her anti-EU tweets. Stop lying to the public Sarah #Brexit0 -
Optimists and visionaries are voting Leave.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You can take the Daily Mail leave for granted. It is lucky it is still being delivered daily to our house but we are optimists and are intrigued to see their narrative post 23rd June, irrespective of the resultBrom said:
The Mail like backing a winner, they tried to dismantle UKIP last year despite the views of their readers. When they lead with Farage and the race questions after the Q&A this week people may have wondered if they were wavering, but they then switched to Cameron and his immigration failings. As you say the MOS and it's editor are very pro remain, so you can't take any newspaper for granted until the week of the vote.Big_G_NorthWales said:
Are you serious about the Daily Mail. It has been so Brexit for so long it has lost all balance as has all their columnists. The Mail would not want to talk about this story. However, the strange thing is that the Mail on Sunday is very much pro remain.FrankBooth said:
The Times would be going against its own readers if it backed leave. So why would they do it?Brom said:The problem is the average voter has no idea who Sarah Wollaston is and it won't really have an impact on too many opinions. If remain can get a household name (at least one not too disliked!) to defect it will be a different story. I think it's pretty clear she's angling for the health post if Cameron wins and Hunt goes (as expected), she's weighed up the odds but hasn't really given a reason for suddenly changing her mind that the public can buy into.
It's interesting the Times and Mail kept this story to a minimum and talked up John Nott more. I had considered these papers might back remain due to recent flirting but it seems likely they will go Leave which is a big boost for the out campaign.0 -
You do realise there's a reason this is all over the news don't you - and twitter full of raging, frothing leavers helps the BBC and Sky etc to keep it up there. And by the way OGH would be most hurt by your first sentenceBrom said:
you do realise political betting doesnt set the news agenda? anyway do you really think her defection can wrestle the polls back in remain's favour? time is running out!felix said:
Lol - the panic on here from [some of] the Leavers on here is most entertaining - they seem to be determined to keep the headlights on Dr. Sarah - perhaps they need to consider if that is really a good tactic.MarkHopkins said:Jobabob said:So the Doctor Defector story is currently the lead on:
BBC News
ITV News
Sky News
Granted, Wollaston is from the far left of the Tory Party so in that regard was always non-standard Leave fodder. But she is also a rebellious sort, being no great fan of Cameron. She is also widely respected as a professional in her own right, was chosen in an open primary by her own constituent, and is a solid expert supporter of the NHS. Few people would've heard of her until yesterday. Now they have.
Indeed. It's all very co-ordinated, isn't it. 0 -
Apparently she hasn't according to twitterCasino_Royale said:
Why is she deleting her tweets then? What is she afraid of?TheScreamingEagles said:Kin hell, I thought Dr Wollaston was a Westminster bubble story, but this makes me think Leave are really worried about the mother of all shellackings
@LouiseMensch: Sarah Wollaston @SarahWollaston is a gutless coward who has been deleting her anti-EU tweets. Stop lying to the public Sarah #Brexit0 -
I'd rather vote UKIP than Tory if Remain wins. That'd result in a Lib Dem win here in Eastbourne if I'm a typical pissed off voter.LadyBucket said:
I can't remember where I read the article but if I recall it was something along the lines that John Major, the PM and George Osborne have been meeting to discuss the future of the party. It was intimated that they are going to destroy the party and from the ashes will rise this modern, pro-Europe party. This probably ties in with the rumours about a cull of parliamentary candidates that don't fit into this objective. Even if this is only partly true and it seems to fit in with what is going on, then it is truly brutal.PlatoSaid said:
TBH, I find the gleeful dancing on the grave of a broken and divided Party really strange. It's a truly Pyrrhic victory for Remain. There's nothing clever in stoking the pyres with cleverdick smuggery and insults.Casino_Royale said:
Most of us knew from Day One that TSE was always going to go for Remain.Richard_Tyndall said:
No you really aren't. You forget we have all watched your progression into the Remain camp over the last few months and it has been very obvious that you are putting party first.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm putting the county first. Country before party.Richard_Tyndall said:
Well since I am not a Tory your point is..... pointless. I would be very pleased to be on the same side as Benn (senior) on many issues, not just the EU.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah but if he was alive you'd be on the same side as Tony Benn.Richard_Tyndall said:
Just goes to show how far you have sold out.TheScreamingEagles said:Bloody hell. Looks like I'll be hitting the streets of Leeds with not one, but two members of the Benn family next week.
These are strange times.
You on the other hand have sold out. Even you know it.
The only good thing is that the one thing you are desperate to save is going to be destroyed by the whole affair. So there is some justice in the world.
And for similar reasons to Matthew Parris.
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my membership will not be renewed.0 -
That is a very bold statement. They have at least 175 MP's, many members including myself, and many who GOTV.TGOHF said:
Yes they have everything they need apart from the support of the MPs, the members and the campaigners.Jobabob said:
Cameron and Ozzy have set their sights on not just victory but complete destruction of the eurosceptics and the rightwing of the party. As you say, it's going to brutal.LadyBucket said:If you listen to Sarah Wollaston's speeches, there is no way you would think she was a tory. She is just another dripping wet Liberal. If she doesn't get a front bench job after this, then hopefully she will defect and take her sugar tax with her. But, then the PM, has also been converted into supporting this ridiculous tax. She has probably been promised something in
this, it has got No 10 fingerprints all over it.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.0 -
Looking forward to my first email from "Dave" or "George" post referendum asking me for a donation like wot I gave prior to the 2015 GE.PlatoSaid said:
I'd rather vote UKIP than Tory if Remain wins. That'd result in a Lib Dem win here in Eastbourne if I'm a typical pissed off voter.LadyBucket said:
I can't remember where I read the article but if I recall it was something along the lines that John Major, the PM and George Osborne have been meeting to discuss the future of the party. It was intimated that they are going to destroy the party and from the ashes will rise this modern, pro-Europe party. This probably ties in with the rumours about a cull of parliamentary candidates that don't fit into this objective. Even if this is only partly true and it seems to fit in with what is going on, then it is truly brutal.PlatoSaid said:
TBH, I find the gleeful dancing on the grave of a broken and divided Party really strange. It's a truly Pyrrhic victory for Remain. There's nothing clever in stoking the pyres with cleverdick smuggery and insults.Casino_Royale said:
Most of us knew from Day One that TSE was always going to go for Remain.Richard_Tyndall said:
No you really aren't. You forget we have all watched your progression into the Remain camp over the last few months and it has been very obvious that you are putting party first.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm putting the county first. Country before party.Richard_Tyndall said:
Well since I am not a Tory your point is..... pointless. I would be very pleased to be on the same side as Benn (senior) on many issues, not just the EU.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah but if he was alive you'd be on the same side as Tony Benn.Richard_Tyndall said:
Just goes to show how far you have sold out.TheScreamingEagles said:Bloody hell. Looks like I'll be hitting the streets of Leeds with not one, but two members of the Benn family next week.
These are strange times.
You on the other hand have sold out. Even you know it.
The only good thing is that the one thing you are desperate to save is going to be destroyed by the whole affair. So there is some justice in the world.
And for similar reasons to Matthew Parris.
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my membership will not be renewed.
They best hope they don't read the replies.0 -
Wollaston isn't an important figure, but her arguments if they get heard are likely to resonate with the small group of undecideds that will determine this referendum, ie that leaving was attractive but ultimately irresponsible thing to do.Brom said:
or maybe the fact that she isn't genuine doesn't suit your narrative. Clearly Cameron can do no wrong!Big_G_NorthWales said:
She doesn't suit your narrative. Many outside the bubble will sympathise with her struggle and and may or may not change their own minds on her comments.Brom said:I struggle to see how some people are saying "she seems so genuine, i truly believe her". She could easily just abstain or have made the same decision weeks ago but she's gone very public just as Cameron needs to pull a rabbit out. The idea that she has had some eureka moment after weighing up the facts (the same facts that have been in the public sphere for weeks) is naive in my opinion.
Of course it works both ways and arguably Boris Johnson had a similar effect the other way earlier in the campaign0 -
There are some gems which haven't been deleted.TheScreamingEagles said:
Apparently she hasn't according to twitterCasino_Royale said:
Why is she deleting her tweets then? What is she afraid of?TheScreamingEagles said:Kin hell, I thought Dr Wollaston was a Westminster bubble story, but this makes me think Leave are really worried about the mother of all shellackings
@LouiseMensch: Sarah Wollaston @SarahWollaston is a gutless coward who has been deleting her anti-EU tweets. Stop lying to the public Sarah #Brexit0 -
Another game changer? All over for Leave? Or have you given up on making wild claims which have yet to materialise?Big_G_NorthWales said:
She doesn't suit your narrative. Many outside the bubble will sympathise with her struggle and and may or may not change their own minds on her comments.Brom said:I struggle to see how some people are saying "she seems so genuine, i truly believe her". She could easily just abstain or have made the same decision weeks ago but she's gone very public just as Cameron needs to pull a rabbit out. The idea that she has had some eureka moment after weighing up the facts (the same facts that have been in the public sphere for weeks) is naive in my opinion.
Wollaston will make next to no difference to the referendum result and this is coming from someone who is betting on Remain winning.0 -
The best result for Britain would be a crushing victory by one side or the other. Rather that than a close result, which is going to lead to all kinds of post-referendum shenanigans.TheScreamingEagles said:Kin hell, I thought Dr Wollaston was a Westminster bubble story, but this makes me think Leave are really worried about the mother of all shellackings
@LouiseMensch: Sarah Wollaston @SarahWollaston is a gutless coward who has been deleting her anti-EU tweets. Stop lying to the public Sarah #Brexit0 -
Cameron and Osborne are still fighting the political wars of the late 1990s and early noughties.Sean_F said:
If that is the strategy, then that will knock the Conservatives into third place, in terms of national vote share. UKIP, plus Eurosceptic Conservatives, are 30% of the voters.Jobabob said:
Cameron and Ozzy have set their sights on not just victory but complete destruction of the eurosceptics and the rightwing of the party. As you say, it's going to brutal.LadyBucket said:If you listen to Sarah Wollaston's speeches, there is no way you would think she was a tory. She is just another dripping wet Liberal. If she doesn't get a front bench job after this, then hopefully she will defect and take her sugar tax with her. But, then the PM, has also been converted into supporting this ridiculous tax. She has probably been promised something in
this, it has got No 10 fingerprints all over it.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
The world has changed, as has their party.0 -
The one thing you're not is typical - any party you've not voted for yet?PlatoSaid said:
I'd rather vote UKIP than Tory if Remain wins. That'd result in a Lib Dem win here in Eastbourne if I'm a typical pissed off voter.LadyBucket said:
I can't remember where I read the article but if I recall it was something along the lines that John Major, the PM and George Osborne have been meeting to discuss the future of the party. It was intimated that they are going to destroy the party and from the ashes will rise this modern, pro-Europe party. This probably ties in with the rumours about a cull of parliamentary candidates that don't fit into this objective. Even if this is only partly true and it seems to fit in with what is going on, then it is truly brutal.PlatoSaid said:
TBH, I find the gleeful dancing on the grave of a broken and divided Party really strange. It's a truly Pyrrhic victory for Remain. There's nothing clever in stoking the pyres with cleverdick smuggery and insults.Casino_Royale said:
Most of us knew from Day One that TSE was always going to go for Remain.Richard_Tyndall said:
No you really aren't. You forget we have all watched your progression into the Remain camp over the last few months and it has been very obvious that you are putting party first.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm putting the county first. Country before party.Richard_Tyndall said:
Well since I am not a Tory your point is..... pointless. I would be very pleased to be on the same side as Benn (senior) on many issues, not just the EU.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah but if he was alive you'd be on the same side as Tony Benn.Richard_Tyndall said:
Just goes to show how far you have sold out.TheScreamingEagles said:Bloody hell. Looks like I'll be hitting the streets of Leeds with not one, but two members of the Benn family next week.
These are strange times.
You on the other hand have sold out. Even you know it.
The only good thing is that the one thing you are desperate to save is going to be destroyed by the whole affair. So there is some justice in the world.
And for similar reasons to Matthew Parris.
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my membership will not be renewed.0 -
Is 2016 the Chinese Year of the inaccurate Nazi comparisons?
@Politico_Daily: UKIP founder Alan Sked has compared the remain camp to the nazis saying Cameron has run a campaign 'Josef Goebbels would have been proud of'0 -
It's hilarious - nutjobbery par excellence!TheScreamingEagles said:Kin hell, I thought Dr Wollaston was a Westminster bubble story, but this makes me think Leave are really worried about the mother of all shellackings
@LouiseMensch: Sarah Wollaston @SarahWollaston is a gutless coward who has been deleting her anti-EU tweets. Stop lying to the public Sarah #Brexit0 -
Remainders crawling out the woodwork this morning as they think the tide has turned.0
-
There seems to a common thread from Major to Blair to Cameron that eventually Prime ministers get fed up with their parties.Casino_Royale said:
Cameron and Osborne are still fighting the political wars of the late 1990s and early noughties.Sean_F said:
If that is the strategy, then that will knock the Conservatives into third place, in terms of national vote share. UKIP, plus Eurosceptic Conservatives, are 30% of the voters.Jobabob said:
Cameron and Ozzy have set their sights on not just victory but complete destruction of the eurosceptics and the rightwing of the party. As you say, it's going to brutal.LadyBucket said:If you listen to Sarah Wollaston's speeches, there is no way you would think she was a tory. She is just another dripping wet Liberal. If she doesn't get a front bench job after this, then hopefully she will defect and take her sugar tax with her. But, then the PM, has also been converted into supporting this ridiculous tax. She has probably been promised something in
this, it has got No 10 fingerprints all over it.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
The world has changed, as has their party.0 -
Yes, well put. History shows that the side arguing for the status quo does better as the day draws near. I expect Remain to move back into the lead and to continue to do so. However, it won't be because of a single event like Sarah W. changing her mind.MP_SE said:
Another game changer? All over for Leave? Or have you given up on making wild claims which have yet to materialise?Big_G_NorthWales said:
She doesn't suit your narrative. Many outside the bubble will sympathise with her struggle and and may or may not change their own minds on her comments.Brom said:I struggle to see how some people are saying "she seems so genuine, i truly believe her". She could easily just abstain or have made the same decision weeks ago but she's gone very public just as Cameron needs to pull a rabbit out. The idea that she has had some eureka moment after weighing up the facts (the same facts that have been in the public sphere for weeks) is naive in my opinion.
Wollaston will make next to no difference to the referendum result and this is coming from someone who is betting on Remain winning.0 -
Quite right @Sean_F underestimates the power of a leader being able to turn people to his point of view. In some ways, Blair is the true pioneer of europhilia in this country. And Cameron sees himself as the heir to Blair.FrankBooth said:
But the Master did exactly that with the Labour party. Splitting parties very risky under our system. Owen Jones, who can be a bit annoying at times, wrote a very good piece and video on it the other day.Sean_F said:
If that is the strategy, then that will knock the Conservatives into third place, in terms of national vote share. UKIP, plus Eurosceptic Conservatives, are 30% of the voters.Jobabob said:
Cameron and Ozzy have set their sights on not just victory but complete destruction of the eurosceptics and the rightwing of the party. As you say, it's going to brutal.LadyBucket said:If you listen to Sarah Wollaston's speeches, there is no way you would think she was a tory. She is just another dripping wet Liberal. If she doesn't get a front bench job after this, then hopefully she will defect and take her sugar tax with her. But, then the PM, has also been converted into supporting this ridiculous tax. She has probably been promised something in
this, it has got No 10 fingerprints all over it.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.0 -
I will check laterTheScreamingEagles said:
Apparently she hasn't according to twitterCasino_Royale said:
Why is she deleting her tweets then? What is she afraid of?TheScreamingEagles said:Kin hell, I thought Dr Wollaston was a Westminster bubble story, but this makes me think Leave are really worried about the mother of all shellackings
@LouiseMensch: Sarah Wollaston @SarahWollaston is a gutless coward who has been deleting her anti-EU tweets. Stop lying to the public Sarah #Brexit0 -
175 MPs ? Even Ed Miliband rustled up more than that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is a very bold statement. They have at least 175 MP's, many members including myself, and many who GOTV.TGOHF said:
Yes they have everything they need apart from the support of the MPs, the members and the campaigners.Jobabob said:
Cameron and Ozzy have set their sights on not just victory but complete destruction of the eurosceptics and the rightwing of the party. As you say, it's going to brutal.LadyBucket said:If you listen to Sarah Wollaston's speeches, there is no way you would think she was a tory. She is just another dripping wet Liberal. If she doesn't get a front bench job after this, then hopefully she will defect and take her sugar tax with her. But, then the PM, has also been converted into supporting this ridiculous tax. She has probably been promised something in
this, it has got No 10 fingerprints all over it.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
0 -
tbh I'm surprised you call Reckless unprincipled, to me he's the opposite.PlatoSaid said:
Quite.GIN1138 said:
I have had a very similar trajectory to Ms Plato.felix said:
Lol - or that she's a hypocrite.GIN1138 said:
Just goes to show Ms. Plato has a good record of backing "winners" but know's when the time is right to disembark when they become "losers"...felix said:
Says the ex ~Blair babe soon to be ex CameroonianPlatoSaid said:
Quite. The language and tactics are visceral stuff - no one who was a bit half hearted would swap sides, deploy insulting language or demean fellow Party members like this.GIN1138 said:Did Mr "Parochial" Hague ever believe any of that "save the pound" and "I'll give you back your country" stuff from 97-01? Seems to me it was all an act because he'd got nothing else to say (because John Major had destroyed the Tories in 1992 when he presided over the house repossession meltdown across Middle England)
I can cope with people like Clarke and Heseltine who have never tried to hide their true beliefs. The real villains are people like Hague and Cameron who have spent decades pretending to be one thing and it turns out it was all a lie...
Upthread someone mentioned that Woollaston was an Awkward Squadder - I think she's gone beyond that, she's in Team UnReliable. One can be awkward, and consistent. You can't chop and change and expect to be trusted.
1997 Labour
2001 (didn't bother)
2005 Lib-Dem
2010 Conservative
2015 Conservative
2020 (no idea except it almost certainly won't be Con)
There are actually a surprising number of "hypocrites" who change their voting preferences with the changing time's.
1987 Tory
1992 Lib Dem as protest
1997 Labour
2001 Labour
2005 Labour but very reluctant
2010 Tory
2015 Tory
Now I'm feeling rather homeless.
I see Woollaston is wall to wall media interviews. She makes Reckless look principled.
I must admit I'd never heard of this Woolaston person until now, is there a market on her becoming a Minister on June 24th?0 -
She's being paraded like a Soviet Show Trial penitent. A revolting humiliating spectacle.PlatoSaid said:
Quite.GIN1138 said:
I have had a very similar trajectory to Ms Plato.felix said:
Lol - or that she's a hypocrite.GIN1138 said:
Just goes to show Ms. Plato has a good record of backing "winners" but know's when the time is right to disembark when they become "losers"...felix said:
Says the ex ~Blair babe soon to be ex CameroonianPlatoSaid said:
Quite. The language and tactics are visceral stuff - no one who was a bit half hearted would swap sides, deploy insulting language or demean fellow Party members like this.GIN1138 said:Did Mr "Parochial" Hague ever believe any of that "save the pound" and "I'll give you back your country" stuff from 97-01? Seems to me it was all an act because he'd got nothing else to say (because John Major had destroyed the Tories in 1992 when he presided over the house repossession meltdown across Middle England)
I can cope with people like Clarke and Heseltine who have never tried to hide their true beliefs. The real villains are people like Hague and Cameron who have spent decades pretending to be one thing and it turns out it was all a lie...
Upthread someone mentioned that Woollaston was an Awkward Squadder - I think she's gone beyond that, she's in Team UnReliable. One can be awkward, and consistent. You can't chop and change and expect to be trusted.
1997 Labour
2001 (didn't bother)
2005 Lib-Dem
2010 Conservative
2015 Conservative
2020 (no idea except it almost certainly won't be Con)
There are actually a surprising number of "hypocrites" who change their voting preferences with the changing time's.
1987 Tory
1992 Lib Dem as protest
1997 Labour
2001 Labour
2005 Labour but very reluctant
2010 Tory
2015 Tory
Now I'm feeling rather homeless.
I see Woollaston is wall to wall media interviews. She makes Reckless look principled.0 -
When I read the first sentence, i thought Sked was going to go on to say that about Farage.TheScreamingEagles said:Is 2016 the Chinese Year of the inaccurate Nazi comparisons?
@Politico_Daily: UKIP founder Alan Sked has compared the remain camp to the nazis saying Cameron has run a campaign 'Josef Goebbels would have been proud of'0 -
My wife felt she was very genuine and normal as indeed many will as this gets huge broadcast media coverage as I predicted last night. David Cameron has many faults but there is not one Conservative MP that at present could come anywhere near him.Brom said:
or maybe the fact that she isn't genuine doesn't suit your narrative. Clearly Cameron can do no wrong!Big_G_NorthWales said:
She doesn't suit your narrative. Many outside the bubble will sympathise with her struggle and and may or may not change their own minds on her comments.Brom said:I struggle to see how some people are saying "she seems so genuine, i truly believe her". She could easily just abstain or have made the same decision weeks ago but she's gone very public just as Cameron needs to pull a rabbit out. The idea that she has had some eureka moment after weighing up the facts (the same facts that have been in the public sphere for weeks) is naive in my opinion.
0 -
@faisalislam: Woollaston tells me she asked Leave officials not to use "untrue" £350m, acknowledged wasnt right, said it was "sticking" in voters heads...
They lied
They knew they lied
They think the lie is working
They will keep using the lie
Shabby campaign, it's a wonder others can still stomach it0 -
Brom said:
you do realise political betting doesnt set the news agenda? anyway do you really think her defection can wrestle the polls back in remain's favour? time is running out!felix said:
Lol - the panic on here from [some of] the Leavers on here is most entertaining - they seem to be determined to keep the headlights on Dr. Sarah - perhaps they need to consider if that is really a good tactic.MarkHopkins said:Jobabob said:So the Doctor Defector story is currently the lead on:
BBC News
ITV News
Sky News
Granted, Wollaston is from the far left of the Tory Party so in that regard was always non-standard Leave fodder. But she is also a rebellious sort, being no great fan of Cameron. She is also widely respected as a professional in her own right, was chosen in an open primary by her own constituent, and is a solid expert supporter of the NHS. Few people would've heard of her until yesterday. Now they have.
Indeed. It's all very co-ordinated, isn't it.
Remain are leading in the polls. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-362715890 -
That Private Eye cover was very predictable indeed!0
-
Haha true.Casino_Royale said:
When I read the first sentence, i thought Sked was going to go on to say that about Farage.TheScreamingEagles said:Is 2016 the Chinese Year of the inaccurate Nazi comparisons?
@Politico_Daily: UKIP founder Alan Sked has compared the remain camp to the nazis saying Cameron has run a campaign 'Josef Goebbels would have been proud of'
Alan Sked's sulk about Farage makes Ted Heath look magnanimous about Lady Thatcher replacing him.0 -
It's a compliment, Goebbels was the original master of propaganda.TheScreamingEagles said:Is 2016 the Chinese Year of the inaccurate Nazi comparisons?
@Politico_Daily: UKIP founder Alan Sked has compared the remain camp to the nazis saying Cameron has run a campaign 'Josef Goebbels would have been proud of'0 -
Talking about Lady Thatcher.
This is when she took on a major party advocating withdrawal from the EC
https://twitter.com/NCPoliticsUK/status/7408489991676231680 -
you know full well that remain have been behind in most of the recent polls, hence Cameron trying every trick in the book. Many remainers expected to be home and hosed by now but it's on a knife edge. I'm expecting 56-44 to remain in the end but if England do well and a patriotic fervour sweeps the country then leave can do this.Jobabob said:Brom said:
you do realise political betting doesnt set the news agenda? anyway do you really think her defection can wrestle the polls back in remain's favour? time is running out!felix said:
Lol - the panic on here from [some of] the Leavers on here is most entertaining - they seem to be determined to keep the headlights on Dr. Sarah - perhaps they need to consider if that is really a good tactic.MarkHopkins said:Jobabob said:So the Doctor Defector story is currently the lead on:
BBC News
ITV News
Sky News
Granted, Wollaston is from the far left of the Tory Party so in that regard was always non-standard Leave fodder. But she is also a rebellious sort, being no great fan of Cameron. She is also widely respected as a professional in her own right, was chosen in an open primary by her own constituent, and is a solid expert supporter of the NHS. Few people would've heard of her until yesterday. Now they have.
Indeed. It's all very co-ordinated, isn't it.
Remain are leading in the polls. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-362715890 -
I think more Tories could go for Remain than expected but, a lot more Labour voters for Leave.Jobabob said:
Quite right @Sean_F underestimates the power of a leader being able to turn people to his point of view. In some ways, Blair is the true pioneer of europhilia in this country. And Cameron sees himself as the heir to Blair.FrankBooth said:
But the Master did exactly that with the Labour party. Splitting parties very risky under our system. Owen Jones, who can be a bit annoying at times, wrote a very good piece and video on it the other day.Sean_F said:
If that is the strategy, then that will knock the Conservatives into third place, in terms of national vote share. UKIP, plus Eurosceptic Conservatives, are 30% of the voters.Jobabob said:
Cameron and Ozzy have set their sights on not just victory but complete destruction of the eurosceptics and the rightwing of the party. As you say, it's going to brutal.LadyBucket said:If you listen to Sarah Wollaston's speeches, there is no way you would think she was a tory. She is just another dripping wet Liberal. If she doesn't get a front bench job after this, then hopefully she will defect and take her sugar tax with her. But, then the PM, has also been converted into supporting this ridiculous tax. She has probably been promised something in
this, it has got No 10 fingerprints all over it.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
Averaged out, I think it won't be decisive either way other than the voting coalition being broader on both sides.0 -
@PSbook: Why did Vote Leave set up a misleading 'register to vote' page? @RhonddaBryant MP has six Qs for the campaign https://t.co/Sxdcqw9MBf
The same side threatening Court action if people are legally registered.
Why are they so scared?0 -
The odds would be too short to be attractive.blackburn63 said:
tbh I'm surprised you call Reckless unprincipled, to me he's the opposite.PlatoSaid said:
Quite.GIN1138 said:
I have had a very similar trajectory to Ms Plato.felix said:
Lol - or that she's a hypocrite.GIN1138 said:
Just goes to show Ms. Plato has a good record of backing "winners" but know's when the time is right to disembark when they become "losers"...felix said:
Says the ex ~Blair babe soon to be ex CameroonianPlatoSaid said:
Quite. The language and tactics are visceral stuff - no one who was a bit half hearted would swap sides, deploy insulting language or demean fellow Party members like this.GIN1138 said:Did Mr "Parochial" Hague ever believe any of that "save the pound" and "I'll give you back your country" stuff from 97-01? Seems to me it was all an act because he'd got nothing else to say (because John Major had destroyed the Tories in 1992 when he presided over the house repossession meltdown across Middle England)
I can cope with people like Clarke and Heseltine who have never tried to hide their true beliefs. The real villains are people like Hague and Cameron who have spent decades pretending to be one thing and it turns out it was all a lie...
Upthread someone mentioned that Woollaston was an Awkward Squadder - I think she's gone beyond that, she's in Team UnReliable. One can be awkward, and consistent. You can't chop and change and expect to be trusted.
1997 Labour
2001 (didn't bother)
2005 Lib-Dem
2010 Conservative
2015 Conservative
2020 (no idea except it almost certainly won't be Con)
There are actually a surprising number of "hypocrites" who change their voting preferences with the changing time's.
1987 Tory
1992 Lib Dem as protest
1997 Labour
2001 Labour
2005 Labour but very reluctant
2010 Tory
2015 Tory
Now I'm feeling rather homeless.
I see Woollaston is wall to wall media interviews. She makes Reckless look principled.
I must admit I'd never heard of this Woolaston person until now, is there a market on her becoming a Minister on June 24th?0 -
Outstanding betting opportunity this morning.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.0 -
I am stunned by how big a story it has become. Last night I played it down.TheScreamingEagles said:Kin hell, I thought Dr Wollaston was a Westminster bubble story, but this makes me think Leave are really worried about the mother of all shellackings
@LouiseMensch: Sarah Wollaston @SarahWollaston is a gutless coward who has been deleting her anti-EU tweets. Stop lying to the public Sarah #Brexit
Now I see that her "nice lady who changed my mind" schtick is working, and working big time.
Are Leave in for a kicking?0 -
Come anywhere near him in what respect?Big_G_NorthWales said:
My wife felt she was very genuine and normal as indeed many will as this gets huge broadcast media coverage as I predicted last night. David Cameron has many faults but there is not one Conservative MP that at present could come anywhere near him.Brom said:
or maybe the fact that she isn't genuine doesn't suit your narrative. Clearly Cameron can do no wrong!Big_G_NorthWales said:
She doesn't suit your narrative. Many outside the bubble will sympathise with her struggle and and may or may not change their own minds on her comments.Brom said:I struggle to see how some people are saying "she seems so genuine, i truly believe her". She could easily just abstain or have made the same decision weeks ago but she's gone very public just as Cameron needs to pull a rabbit out. The idea that she has had some eureka moment after weighing up the facts (the same facts that have been in the public sphere for weeks) is naive in my opinion.
0 -
@faisalislam: Vote Leave say still looking in to Gove's promise to @Skynews to get the £350m number independently audited, like Ukip manifesto. 5 days now0
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True.TheScreamingEagles said:
Haha true.Casino_Royale said:
When I read the first sentence, i thought Sked was going to go on to say that about Farage.TheScreamingEagles said:Is 2016 the Chinese Year of the inaccurate Nazi comparisons?
@Politico_Daily: UKIP founder Alan Sked has compared the remain camp to the nazis saying Cameron has run a campaign 'Josef Goebbels would have been proud of'
Alan Sked's sulk about Farage makes Ted Heath look magnanimous about Lady Thatcher replacing him.
Right, logging off for now. I have work to do.0 -
And then he is going to try and govern with all those people he brutalised on his backbenches... good luck with that. It won't be about remain or leave by then, it will be personal.LadyBucket said:Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
Personally I think the real hilarity is going to be Dodgy Dave tearing his party to pieces, making it so that one half the party can't talk to the other without spitting, so that he can stay in his beloved EU... and then FN win in France and the EU implodes. Failing that, he will lose his majority to the kippers in 2020, 5% of voters moving from the Tories to UKIP and they will win 30 seats, and that's the end of that.
0 -
Nice tip. Once it gets to 5 I might get on, to trade off.Wanderer said:Outstanding betting opportunity this morning.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.0 -
I got a CCHQ begging request yesterday - I deleted it.TGOHF said:
Looking forward to my first email from "Dave" or "George" post referendum asking me for a donation like wot I gave prior to the 2015 GE.PlatoSaid said:
I'd rather vote UKIP than Tory if Remain wins. That'd result in a Lib Dem win here in Eastbourne if I'm a typical pissed off voter.LadyBucket said:
I can't remember where I read the article but if I recall it was something along the lines that John Major, the PM and George Osborne have been meeting to discuss the future of the party. It was intimated that they are going to destroy the party and from the ashes will rise this modern, pro-Europe party. This probably ties in with the rumours about a cull of parliamentary candidates that don't fit into this objective. Even if this is only partly true and it seems to fit in with what is going on, then it is truly brutal.PlatoSaid said:
TBH, I find the gleeful dancing on the grave of a broken and divided Party really strange. It's a truly Pyrrhic victory for Remain. There's nothing clever in stoking the pyres with cleverdick smuggery and insults.Casino_Royale said:
Most of us knew from Day One that TSE was always going to go for Remain.Richard_Tyndall said:
No you really aren't. You forget we have all watched your progression into the Remain camp over the last few months and it has been very obvious that you are putting party first.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm putting the county first. Country before party.Richard_Tyndall said:
Well since I am not a Tory your point is..... pointless. I would be very pleased to be on the same side as Benn (senior) on many issues, not just the EU.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah but if he was alive you'd be on the same side as Tony Benn.Richard_Tyndall said:
Just goes to show how far you have sold out.TheScreamingEagles said:Bloody hell. Looks like I'll be hitting the streets of Leeds with not one, but two members of the Benn family next week.
These are strange times.
You on the other hand have sold out. Even you know it.
The only good thing is that the one thing you are desperate to save is going to be destroyed by the whole affair. So there is some justice in the world.
And for similar reasons to Matthew Parris.
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my membership will not be renewed.
They best hope they don't read the replies.0 -
They will by tonightGIN1138 said:
Clearly if someone changes their mind and goes to another camp it's a blow for the side they're leaving (the exception is that Quinton guy who left the Tories for Labour - They were genuinely glad to be shut of him I think)CarlottaVance said:Isabel Hardman:
Sarah Wollaston’s defection to Remain is a blow to the Leave campaign, whatever some of its supporters might say. The Tory MP is notoriously independently-minded, and unafraid of changing her mind, too, which makes her a rare species in Westminster. She is also totally uninterested in a government job, which makes it more difficult for her former allies to claim that she is just jumping ship in order to gain a cosy ministerial position. And Leave made a big song and dance about signing her up in the first place, which makes it even more difficult to claim that her change of heart means nothing.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/sarah-wollastons-defection-remain-really-blow-leave/
But the saving grace for LEAVE is that most people won't have the first idea who she is....0 -
Cameron hasn't succeeded in winning Conservatives over to the Europhile cause. The biggest political shift of the campaign has been Cameron's ratings sinking like a stone.Jobabob said:
Quite right @Sean_F underestimates the power of a leader being able to turn people to his point of view. In some ways, Blair is the true pioneer of europhilia in this country. And Cameron sees himself as the heir to Blair.FrankBooth said:
But the Master did exactly that with the Labour party. Splitting parties very risky under our system. Owen Jones, who can be a bit annoying at times, wrote a very good piece and video on it the other day.Sean_F said:
If that is the strategy, then that will knock the Conservatives into third place, in terms of national vote share. UKIP, plus Eurosceptic Conservatives, are 30% of the voters.Jobabob said:
Cameron and Ozzy have set their sights on not just victory but complete destruction of the eurosceptics and the rightwing of the party. As you say, it's going to brutal.LadyBucket said:If you listen to Sarah Wollaston's speeches, there is no way you would think she was a tory. She is just another dripping wet Liberal. If she doesn't get a front bench job after this, then hopefully she will defect and take her sugar tax with her. But, then the PM, has also been converted into supporting this ridiculous tax. She has probably been promised something in
this, it has got No 10 fingerprints all over it.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
And unlike Labour under Blair, there is a rival party on the Right.0 -
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.Wanderer said:Outstanding betting opportunity this morning.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.0 -
Well you would say that wouldn't youJobabob said:
Exactly right. The idea that she is some bullying europhile plant/careerist shill/Blairite spy is the stuff only of wild eurosceptic fantasy.Big_G_NorthWales said:My wife and I both listened to Sarah Wollaston on both BBC and Sky this morning and she expressed in a quiet and competent manner how she has been torn by the debate and that she had been influenced by her Father, family and constituents that remain was the correct decision on economic grounds for the NHS, National security, and how she had been concerned over the debate on immigration. My wife commented that she seemed to express the views of many in this referendum, that were wrestling with their choice, and that she had made a brave decision to change her mind. It is more than possible that many voters will do the same as their pen is poised over the ballot paper. For those on here who see a conspiracy there is none - just for once an MP wrestling with her conscience and making a decision that she believes in and is comfortable with
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Another one bites the dust.PlatoSaid said:
I got a CCHQ begging request yesterday - I deleted it.TGOHF said:
Looking forward to my first email from "Dave" or "George" post referendum asking me for a donation like wot I gave prior to the 2015 GE.PlatoSaid said:
I'd rather vote UKIP than Tory if Remain wins. That'd result in a Lib Dem win here in Eastbourne if I'm a typical pissed off voter.LadyBucket said:
I can't remember where I read the article but if I recall it was something along the lines that John Major, the PM and George Osborne have been meeting to discuss the future of the party. It was intimated that they are going to destroy the party and from the ashes will rise this modern, pro-Europe party. This probably ties in with the rumours about a cull of parliamentary candidates that don't fit into this objective. Even if this is only partly true and it seems to fit in with what is going on, then it is truly brutal.PlatoSaid said:
TBH, I find the gleeful dancing on the grave of a broken and divided Party really strange. It's a truly Pyrrhic victory for Remain. There's nothing clever in stoking the pyres with cleverdick smuggery and insults.Casino_Royale said:
Most of us knew from Day One that TSE was always going to go for Remain.Richard_Tyndall said:
No you really aren't. You forget we have all watched your progression into the Remain camp over the last few months and it has been very obvious that you are putting party first.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm putting the county first. Country before party.Richard_Tyndall said:
Well since I am not a Tory your point is..... pointless. I would be very pleased to be on the same side as Benn (senior) on many issues, not just the EU.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah but if he was alive you'd be on the same side as Tony Benn.Richard_Tyndall said:
Just goes to show how far you have sold out.TheScreamingEagles said:Bloody hell. Looks like I'll be hitting the streets of Leeds with not one, but two members of the Benn family next week.
These are strange times.
You on the other hand have sold out. Even you know it.
The only good thing is that the one thing you are desperate to save is going to be destroyed by the whole affair. So there is some justice in the world.
And for similar reasons to Matthew Parris.
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my membership will not be renewed.
They best hope they don't read the replies.
Cameron's plan to shear the eurosceptic right from his party is working.0 -
and they will watch the TV and go "ive never heard of her"Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will by tonightGIN1138 said:
Clearly if someone changes their mind and goes to another camp it's a blow for the side they're leaving (the exception is that Quinton guy who left the Tories for Labour - They were genuinely glad to be shut of him I think)CarlottaVance said:Isabel Hardman:
Sarah Wollaston’s defection to Remain is a blow to the Leave campaign, whatever some of its supporters might say. The Tory MP is notoriously independently-minded, and unafraid of changing her mind, too, which makes her a rare species in Westminster. She is also totally uninterested in a government job, which makes it more difficult for her former allies to claim that she is just jumping ship in order to gain a cosy ministerial position. And Leave made a big song and dance about signing her up in the first place, which makes it even more difficult to claim that her change of heart means nothing.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/sarah-wollastons-defection-remain-really-blow-leave/
But the saving grace for LEAVE is that most people won't have the first idea who she is....0 -
The FN won't win in France.Indigo said:
And then he is going to try and govern with all those people he brutalised on his backbenches... good luck with that. It won't be about remain or leave by then, it will be personal.LadyBucket said:Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
Personally I think the real hilarity is going to be Dodgy Dave tearing his party to pieces, making it so that one half the party can't talk to the other without spitting, so that he can stay in his beloved EU... and then FN win in France and the EU implodes. Failing that, he will lose his majority to the kippers in 2020, 5% of voters moving from the Tories to UKIP and they will win 30 seats, and that's the end of that.0 -
Mrs Mensch is almost unrivalled as a Twitter opponent - she's all over her account and won't stop. Guido's elves will have downloaded the whole lot.dr_spyn said:
There are some gems which haven't been deleted.TheScreamingEagles said:
Apparently she hasn't according to twitterCasino_Royale said:
Why is she deleting her tweets then? What is she afraid of?TheScreamingEagles said:Kin hell, I thought Dr Wollaston was a Westminster bubble story, but this makes me think Leave are really worried about the mother of all shellackings
@LouiseMensch: Sarah Wollaston @SarahWollaston is a gutless coward who has been deleting her anti-EU tweets. Stop lying to the public Sarah #Brexit0 -
Should have sent them an appropriately worded reply! Are you going to stay a member for your vote in the leadership election, or is it part of Dave's plan that the only members left by the time he resigns will be the hardcore Osbornites?PlatoSaid said:
I got a CCHQ begging request yesterday - I deleted it.TGOHF said:
Looking forward to my first email from "Dave" or "George" post referendum asking me for a donation like wot I gave prior to the 2015 GE.PlatoSaid said:
I'd rather vote UKIP than Tory if Remain wins. That'd result in a Lib Dem win here in Eastbourne if I'm a typical pissed off voter.LadyBucket said:
I can't remember where I read the article but if I recall it was something along the lines that John Major, the PM and George Osborne have been meeting to discuss the future of the party. It was intimated that they are going to destroy the party and from the ashes will rise this modern, pro-Europe party. This probably ties in with the rumours about a cull of parliamentary candidates that don't fit into this objective. Even if this is only partly true and it seems to fit in with what is going on, then it is truly brutal.PlatoSaid said:
TBH, I find the gleeful dancing on the grave of a broken and divided Party really strange. It's a truly Pyrrhic victory for Remain. There's nothing clever in stoking the pyres with cleverdick smuggery and insults.Casino_Royale said:
Most of us knew from Day One that TSE was always going to go for Remain.Richard_Tyndall said:
No you really aren't. You forget we have all watched your progression into the Remain camp over the last few months and it has been very obvious that you are putting party first.TheScreamingEagles said:
I'm putting the county first. Country before party.Richard_Tyndall said:
Well since I am not a Tory your point is..... pointless. I would be very pleased to be on the same side as Benn (senior) on many issues, not just the EU.TheScreamingEagles said:
Yeah but if he was alive you'd be on the same side as Tony Benn.Richard_Tyndall said:
Just goes to show how far you have sold out.TheScreamingEagles said:Bloody hell. Looks like I'll be hitting the streets of Leeds with not one, but two members of the Benn family next week.
These are strange times.
You on the other hand have sold out. Even you know it.
The only good thing is that the one thing you are desperate to save is going to be destroyed by the whole affair. So there is some justice in the world.
And for similar reasons to Matthew Parris.
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my membership will not be renewed.
They best hope they don't read the replies.0 -
I thought Leave were worth backing when they were 31% , I can't see what has changed unless more and more people are picking up on Prof Curtice and Mike pointing out ORB say there poll is Remain ahead by 12% not the 1% the Telegraph report it as.Wanderer said:Outstanding betting opportunity this morning.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.0 -
Sarah Wollaston MP @sarahwollaston Apr 7
Now over 112,000 signatures STOP CAMERON spending British taxpayers’ money on Pro-EU Referendum leaflets - Petitions0 -
Sarah Wollaston MP @sarahwollaston
Ratcheting up the alarmist rhetoric on security by project fear 'in' campaign will backfire; people don't like to be be taken for fools0 -
On the £350m, the whole point of using that figure was precisely that it was tenuous. That way, it gets continually talked about by both sides, helping the fact that there is a large cost - whatever it might actually be - sink in.
cf. the "£250m cost" of "a new voting system" used so effectively by #No2AV. Yes trying to argue - perfectly reasonably and logically - that most of that was the sunk cost of the referendum only helped make their opponents' point for them.0 -
Sri Lanka now out to 36 on Betfair. After half an hour of the first day, really?0
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It's people betting with their hearts, not their heads. In the same way that people kept betting on Jeb Bush long after it was clear he wasn't going to win.TheScreamingEagles said:
I thought Leave were worth backing when they were 31% , I can't see what has changed unless more and more people are picking up on Prof Curtice and Mike pointing out ORB say there poll is Remain ahead by 12% not the 1% the Telegraph report it as.Wanderer said:Outstanding betting opportunity this morning.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.0 -
You said that DC and GO do not have the support of their MP's. This figure is calling you out on that statement, and by the way add I more from this morningTGOHF said:
175 MPs ? Even Ed Miliband rustled up more than that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is a very bold statement. They have at least 175 MP's, many members including myself, and many who GOTV.TGOHF said:
Yes they have everything they need apart from the support of the MPs, the members and the campaigners.Jobabob said:
Cameron and Ozzy have set their sights on not just victory but complete destruction of the eurosceptics and the rightwing of the party. As you say, it's going to brutal.LadyBucket said:If you listen to Sarah Wollaston's speeches, there is no way you would think she was a tory. She is just another dripping wet Liberal. If she doesn't get a front bench job after this, then hopefully she will defect and take her sugar tax with her. But, then the PM, has also been converted into supporting this ridiculous tax. She has probably been promised something in
this, it has got No 10 fingerprints all over it.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.0 -
His defection was unprincipled and deliberately designed to wreck - he wasted resources in his own constituency party and then jumped ship for maximum damage. Carswell didn't.blackburn63 said:
tbh I'm surprised you call Reckless unprincipled, to me he's the opposite.PlatoSaid said:
Quite.GIN1138 said:
I have had a very similar trajectory to Ms Plato.felix said:
Lol - or that she's a hypocrite.GIN1138 said:
Just goes to show Ms. Plato has a good record of backing "winners" but know's when the time is right to disembark when they become "losers"...felix said:
Says the ex ~Blair babe soon to be ex CameroonianPlatoSaid said:
Quite. The language and tactics are visceral stuff - no one who was a bit half hearted would swap sides, deploy insulting language or demean fellow Party members like this.GIN1138 said:Did Mr "Parochial" Hague ever believe any of that "save the pound" and "I'll give you back your country" stuff from 97-01? Seems to me it was all an act because he'd got nothing else to say (because John Major had destroyed the Tories in 1992 when he presided over the house repossession meltdown across Middle England)
I can cope with people like Clarke and Heseltine who have never tried to hide their true beliefs. The real villains are people like Hague and Cameron who have spent decades pretending to be one thing and it turns out it was all a lie...
Upthread someone mentioned that Woollaston was an Awkward Squadder - I think she's gone beyond that, she's in Team UnReliable. One can be awkward, and consistent. You can't chop and change and expect to be trusted.
1997 Labour
2001 (didn't bother)
2005 Lib-Dem
2010 Conservative
2015 Conservative
2020 (no idea except it almost certainly won't be Con)
There are actually a surprising number of "hypocrites" who change their voting preferences with the changing time's.
1987 Tory
1992 Lib Dem as protest
1997 Labour
2001 Labour
2005 Labour but very reluctant
2010 Tory
2015 Tory
Now I'm feeling rather homeless.
I see Woollaston is wall to wall media interviews. She makes Reckless look principled.
I must admit I'd never heard of this Woolaston person until now, is there a market on her becoming a Minister on June 24th?0 -
Given their tiny majority I would suggest they are pretty hamstrung.Big_G_NorthWales said:
You said that DC and GO do not have the support of their MP's. This figure is calling you out on that statement, and by the way add I more from this morningTGOHF said:
175 MPs ? Even Ed Miliband rustled up more than that.Big_G_NorthWales said:
That is a very bold statement. They have at least 175 MP's, many members including myself, and many who GOTV.TGOHF said:
Yes they have everything they need apart from the support of the MPs, the members and the campaigners.Jobabob said:
Cameron and Ozzy have set their sights on not just victory but complete destruction of the eurosceptics and the rightwing of the party. As you say, it's going to brutal.LadyBucket said:If you listen to Sarah Wollaston's speeches, there is no way you would think she was a tory. She is just another dripping wet Liberal. If she doesn't get a front bench job after this, then hopefully she will defect and take her sugar tax with her. But, then the PM, has also been converted into supporting this ridiculous tax. She has probably been promised something in
this, it has got No 10 fingerprints all over it.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.0 -
No, they really won't.Big_G_NorthWales said:
They will by tonightGIN1138 said:
Clearly if someone changes their mind and goes to another camp it's a blow for the side they're leaving (the exception is that Quinton guy who left the Tories for Labour - They were genuinely glad to be shut of him I think)CarlottaVance said:Isabel Hardman:
Sarah Wollaston’s defection to Remain is a blow to the Leave campaign, whatever some of its supporters might say. The Tory MP is notoriously independently-minded, and unafraid of changing her mind, too, which makes her a rare species in Westminster. She is also totally uninterested in a government job, which makes it more difficult for her former allies to claim that she is just jumping ship in order to gain a cosy ministerial position. And Leave made a big song and dance about signing her up in the first place, which makes it even more difficult to claim that her change of heart means nothing.
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/sarah-wollastons-defection-remain-really-blow-leave/
But the saving grace for LEAVE is that most people won't have the first idea who she is....
The £350m figure will be brought up and then those representing Leave will explain that the EU dictates how the rebate is spent. It will have a neutral effect on voters as they will be discussing massive amounts of money being spent on EU membership which voters are picking up on.0 -
Christ on a bike.Big_G_NorthWales said:
My wife felt she was very genuine and normal as indeed many will as this gets huge broadcast media coverage as I predicted last night. David Cameron has many faults but there is not one Conservative MP that at present could come anywhere near him.Brom said:
or maybe the fact that she isn't genuine doesn't suit your narrative. Clearly Cameron can do no wrong!Big_G_NorthWales said:
She doesn't suit your narrative. Many outside the bubble will sympathise with her struggle and and may or may not change their own minds on her comments.Brom said:I struggle to see how some people are saying "she seems so genuine, i truly believe her". She could easily just abstain or have made the same decision weeks ago but she's gone very public just as Cameron needs to pull a rabbit out. The idea that she has had some eureka moment after weighing up the facts (the same facts that have been in the public sphere for weeks) is naive in my opinion.
Another serial orgasm from Remainers as they are sure they have it in the bag, another couple of days of gloating, and then the next poll with show a 2% lead for Leave and it will be all doom and gloom again.0 -
Who would want to go anywhere near him?blackburn63 said:
Come anywhere near him in what respect?Big_G_NorthWales said:
My wife felt she was very genuine and normal as indeed many will as this gets huge broadcast media coverage as I predicted last night. David Cameron has many faults but there is not one Conservative MP that at present could come anywhere near him.Brom said:
or maybe the fact that she isn't genuine doesn't suit your narrative. Clearly Cameron can do no wrong!Big_G_NorthWales said:
She doesn't suit your narrative. Many outside the bubble will sympathise with her struggle and and may or may not change their own minds on her comments.Brom said:I struggle to see how some people are saying "she seems so genuine, i truly believe her". She could easily just abstain or have made the same decision weeks ago but she's gone very public just as Cameron needs to pull a rabbit out. The idea that she has had some eureka moment after weighing up the facts (the same facts that have been in the public sphere for weeks) is naive in my opinion.
0 -
