Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I don't think that Socrates is the most impartial observer.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
What is it with these Greek 'philosophers' (sic)?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men (and women) are afraid of the light.
Exactly. Why are so many Remainers afraid of Britain governing itself and setting a free, democratic example to the whole of Europe?
We are a self governing nation setting an example to Europe.
You don't need to have done PPE to know that.
We have to prostrate ourselves to Brussels in order to take the VAT off tampons.
Very self governing.
(And I say this as a PPE wonk)
Can we still fire our Trident based nukes at France?
Yup we can, can't get more self governing than that.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
Do you think, on the whole, Sturgeon is popular in England?
Fair question. She is a consummate politician and I expect her to attack Boris, Gove and IDS hard from the left and will exploit Sarah Wollaston's defection with ease. I also expect a full frontal attack on Farage and probably a clever tying of Vote Leave to Farage. (I think Vote Leave always worrieed about this). The danger for leave is that she will influence the left who are needed to vote remain
I would expect left wing viewers to prefer Sturgeon, and right wing viewers to prefer Johnson, but Johnson to be more popular overall.
That is certainly true. Just remember how the SNP meme played in England in 2015.
That's all done with, though. This isn't about the SNP holding the strings of a potential UK PM. We've moved on.
That is right, of course in the literal sense. I was thinking of something more visceral - and English impulse that the SNP does not have England's best interest at heart and is not to be trusted.
Not many viewers would assume that Nicola Sturgeon has the best interests of the United Kingdom at heart.
We're seeing a lot of serious disillusion here from Tory loyalists, but I wonder if it will survive the arrival of a new leader. Whoever it is will obviously make conciliatory noises all round - time to remember what binds us together, respect the dcecision (whatever it is), work together for Britain, etc. I think the dissidents will all fall into line again, unless the new leader has seriously burned his boats.
Parallels with Labour here - there will be no angry backlash against the leadership - just slow disconnection as supporters drift off to do something better with their time.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
I would have thought that the PM v the leader of UKIP has more box office in an EURef, particularly as it was on first. Time will tell.
The format is different, tonight's is a debate between three on each side hosted by Julie Etchingham, who is very professional, unlike Cameron following Farage
Indeed, but it's still just a glorified ITV version of Question Time featuring names not quite as big as the Cameron/Farage event.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
Do you think, on the whole, Sturgeon is popular in England?
Fair question. She is a consummate politician and I expect her to attack Boris, Gove and IDS hard from the left and will exploit Sarah Wollaston's defection with ease. I also expect a full frontal attack on Farage and probably a clever tying of Vote Leave to Farage. (I think Vote Leave always worrieed about this). The danger for leave is that she will influence the left who are needed to vote remain
I would expect left wing viewers to prefer Sturgeon, and right wing viewers to prefer Johnson, but Johnson to be more popular overall.
That is certainly true. Just remember how the SNP meme played in England in 2015.
That's all done with, though. This isn't about the SNP holding the strings of a potential UK PM. We've moved on.
That is right, of course in the literal sense. I was thinking of something more visceral - and English impulse that the SNP does not have England's best interest at heart and is not to be trusted.
Any Leavers need me to Get Out the postal vote in London (central and Northwest mainly) I really want to help after seeing Osborne yesterday-I mean that lie on not undrstanding how the triple lock works??
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
I would have thought that the PM v the leader of UKIP has more box office in an EURef, particularly as it was on first. Time will tell.
It wasn't a debate though - IIRC tonight at Wembley is a debate of 3 vs 3.
No, it wasn't a direct debate but I don't think the format is particularly important. The most important leader event in the 2015GE turned out to be the sequential one towards the end, with Miliband's 'no we didn't overspend' comment, rather than the 7-way debate early on.
I wonder if foreknowledge of Wollaston's defection is the reason Cameron started referring to Nigel Farage's Little England.
The timing of the defection is also helpful for Remain.
Cameron is in a hole about immigration. Having previously said he would drastically cut it, he can't now point out that Brexit won't make a material difference to the number of immigrants coming in. The "little England" tag is a way of avoiding having to admit that high immigration levels are an attribute of an open society in a globalised world. It's desperate, but that's where he is.
Leave were undoubtedly aware of the risks of going strongly anti-immigration. Their one pager mentioned it but didn't stress it unlike the £350 million a week figure that they repeated four times. They changed their minds.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
Sturgeon won't help Remain in England. Especially not against Boris.
Sturgeon was an impressive performer in the GE debates. Obviously she has to be careful about lecturing the English - definitely plenty of pitfalls there - but the risk is so blindly obvious I assume she was twigged.
My point is that Tory voting remainers such as myself are going to find it very hard to support a left wing Scot
Anyone who thinks Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP are 'left wing' hasn't been paying attention:
Free University Education for the Middle Classes at the expense of the poor Free prescriptions for the rich at the expense of council services McStasi State Snooper for every child
As for the Nigel Farage stuff, the response from Leave should be a very simple one. Help us sack Nige by voting Leave.
Several constituencies have 'sacked' Farage but he's still here being a blight on the UK.
Well he wouldn't even be a useless MEP if we leave. His purpose in UK public life would be over, vote remain to keep him banging on about this stuff and blighting our TV screens and newspapers for another 10 years.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
Sturgeon won't help Remain in England. Especially not against Boris.
Sturgeon was an impressive performer in the GE debates. Obviously she has to be careful about lecturing the English - definitely plenty of pitfalls there - but the risk is so blindly obvious I assume she was twigged.
My point is that Tory voting remainers such as myself are going to find it very hard to support a left wing Scot
Anyone who thinks Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP are 'left wing' hasn't been paying attention:
Free University Education for the Middle Classes at the expense of the poor Free prescriptions for the rich at the expense of council services McStasi State Snooper for every child
The Wollaston defection could prove ruinous for Leave in the following way. While some Leavers base their position on reason, for many, especially since the cult of the later Thatcher, being a euro-sceptic has simply been a condition of being right-wing. If people start looking at Wollaston and thinking 'do I actually believe this guff or am I just doing what I think's expected of me?' then the cult aspect of Leave could start to crumble. Leave can't afford that.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
Sturgeon won't help Remain in England. Especially not against Boris.
Sturgeon was an impressive performer in the GE debates. Obviously she has to be careful about lecturing the English - definitely plenty of pitfalls there - but the risk is so blindly obvious I assume she was twigged.
My point is that Tory voting remainers such as myself are going to find it very hard to support a left wing Scot
Anyone who thinks Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP are 'left wing' hasn't been paying attention:
Free University Education for the Middle Classes at the expense of the poor Free prescriptions for the rich at the expense of council services McStasi State Snooper for every child
Its a right wing wet dream......
The last one strikes me as more communist and authoritarian than right wing, especially given that Ruth tried to kill it but the Lib Dems, Greens and Labour are too bloody spineless.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
I would have thought that the PM v the leader of UKIP has more box office in an EURef, particularly as it was on first. Time will tell.
The format is different, tonight's is a debate between three on each side hosted by Julie Etchingham, who is very professional, unlike Cameron following Farage
Indeed, but it's still just a glorified ITV version of Question Time featuring names not quite as big as the Cameron/Farage event.
Boris and Nicola are important figures in all of this.
What Nicola wants and says was toxic in middle England last year while Boris, on form, projects and enthuses the same group in a way that none of his contemporaries do.
This has to be the worst excuse for saying 'I'm not in the mood'
Couples ‘delaying having babies because of fears over a Brexit’
Couples are delaying having children because of worries about the uncertainties of a Brexit, a senior London academic said today.
Professor Michael Bruter of LSE discovered evidence that young voters in particular were “far less likely to make family plans” before the June 23 vote.
The Wollaston defection could prove ruinous for Leave in the following way. While some Leavers base their position on reason, for many, especially since the cult of the later Thatcher, being a euro-sceptic has simply been a condition of being right-wing. If people start looking at Wollaston and thinking 'do I actually believe this guff or am I just doing what I think's expected of me?' then the cult aspect of Leave could start to crumble. Leave can't afford that.
bad news for you then, Wollaston already knocked off the news cycle for Libya and Blair/Major joint campaigning!
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I don't think that Socrates is the most impartial observer.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
What is it with these Greek 'philosophers' (sic)?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men (and women) are afraid of the light.
Perhaps we can tempt him with an egg, watrecress and hemlock sandwich for lunch.
Which reminds me, where you at the Oxford Union EC referendum debate in 1975 that featured Ted Heath, Jeremy Thorpe, Peter Shore, and Barbara Castle?
Yes, it was in the Trinity term of my first year - and a couple of friends and I had excellent seats just behind the Yes despatch box. I forgot to record the Parliament Channel programme (was mountain walking in Slovenia!) over the weekend to see whether we were caught on camera!
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
Do you think, on the whole, Sturgeon is popular in England?
Fair question. She is a consummate politician and I expect her to attack Boris, Gove and IDS hard from the left and will exploit Sarah Wollaston's defection with ease. I also expect a full frontal attack on Farage and probably a clever tying of Vote Leave to Farage. (I think Vote Leave always worrieed about this). The danger for leave is that she will influence the left who are needed to vote remain
I would expect left wing viewers to prefer Sturgeon, and right wing viewers to prefer Johnson, but Johnson to be more popular overall.
That is certainly true. Just remember how the SNP meme played in England in 2015.
That's all done with, though. This isn't about the SNP holding the strings of a potential UK PM. We've moved on.
That is right, of course in the literal sense. I was thinking of something more visceral - and English impulse that the SNP does not have England's best interest at heart and is not to be trusted.
Not many viewers would assume that Nicola Sturgeon has the best interests of the United Kingdom at heart.
By contrast, when the SNP were battling hard for Scotland - a few said they wished they could have someone as passionate arguing for the English case.
That she's on the EU-side here is interesting. She's keen on Scottish sovereignty - how she plays this tonight is the main reason I'm watching. Salmond has been using it as a coded stick to beat Remain since Day 1.
Any Leavers need me to Get Out the postal vote in London (central and Northwest mainly) I really want to help after seeing Osborne yesterday-I mean that lie on not undrstanding how the triple lock works??
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I don't think that Socrates is the most impartial observer.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
What is it with these Greek 'philosophers' (sic)?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men (and women) are afraid of the light.
Perhaps we can tempt him with an egg, watrecress and hemlock sandwich for lunch.
Which reminds me, where you at the Oxford Union EC referendum debate in 1975 that featured Ted Heath, Jeremy Thorpe, Peter Shore, and Barbara Castle?
Yes, it was in the Trinity term of my first year - and a couple of friends and I had excellent seats just behind the Yes despatch box. I forgot to record the Parliament Channel programme (was mountain walking in Slovenia!) over the weekend to see whether we were caught on camera!
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I don't think that Socrates is the most impartial observer.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
What is it with these Greek 'philosophers' (sic)?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men (and women) are afraid of the light.
Perhaps we can tempt him with an egg, watrecress and hemlock sandwich for lunch.
Which reminds me, where you at the Oxford Union EC referendum debate in 1975 that featured Ted Heath, Jeremy Thorpe, Peter Shore, and Barbara Castle?
Yes, it was in the Trinity term of my first year - and a couple of friends and I had excellent seats just behind the Yes despatch box. I forgot to record the Parliament Channel programme (was mountain walking in Slovenia!) over the weekend to see whether we were caught on camera!
I'm fairly certain I saw someone who looked like a younger version of your good self there.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
Sturgeon won't help Remain in England. Especially not against Boris.
Sturgeon was an impressive performer in the GE debates. Obviously she has to be careful about lecturing the English - definitely plenty of pitfalls there - but the risk is so blindly obvious I assume she was twigged.
My point is that Tory voting remainers such as myself are going to find it very hard to support a left wing Scot
Anyone who thinks Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP are 'left wing' hasn't been paying attention:
Free University Education for the Middle Classes at the expense of the poor Free prescriptions for the rich at the expense of council services McStasi State Snooper for every child
Its a right wing wet dream......
Maybe so...but it's the public perception that matters, and in England it's going to be hard not to root for Boris.
Any Leavers need me to Get Out the postal vote in London (central and Northwest mainly) I really want to help after seeing Osborne yesterday-I mean that lie on not undrstanding how the triple lock works??
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I don't think that Socrates is the most impartial observer.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
What is it with these Greek 'philosophers' (sic)?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men (and women) are afraid of the light.
Perhaps we can tempt him with an egg, watrecress and hemlock sandwich for lunch.
Which reminds me, where you at the Oxford Union EC referendum debate in 1975 that featured Ted Heath, Jeremy Thorpe, Peter Shore, and Barbara Castle?
Yes, it was in the Trinity term of my first year - and a couple of friends and I had excellent seats just behind the Yes despatch box. I forgot to record the Parliament Channel programme (was mountain walking in Slovenia!) over the weekend to see whether we were caught on camera!
I'm fairly certain I saw someone who looked like a younger version of your good self there.
Vote REMAIN or the IRA will blow the sh*t out of you!
Nice.
this is how the headlines will see it, it's easy for the tabloids to exaggerate, Massively stupid of Blair and Major to link IRA terrorism to staying in the EU.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
I would have thought that the PM v the leader of UKIP has more box office in an EURef, particularly as it was on first. Time will tell.
The format is different, tonight's is a debate between three on each side hosted by Julie Etchingham, who is very professional, unlike Cameron following Farage
Indeed, but it's still just a glorified ITV version of Question Time featuring names not quite as big as the Cameron/Farage event.
Boris and Nicola are important figures in all of this.
What Nicola wants and says was toxic in middle England last year while Boris, on form, projects and enthuses the same group in a way that none of his contemporaries do.
Yes, Cameron insults Little Englanders and we all know what Little Englanders think of Sturgeon.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
Do you think, on the whole, Sturgeon is popular in England?
Fair question. She is a consummate politician and I expect her to attack Boris, Gove and IDS hard from the left and will exploit Sarah Wollaston's defection with ease. I also expect a full frontal attack on Farage and probably a clever tying of Vote Leave to Farage. (I think Vote Leave always worrieed about this). The danger for leave is that she will influence the left who are needed to vote remain
I would expect left wing viewers to prefer Sturgeon, and right wing viewers to prefer Johnson, but Johnson to be more popular overall.
That is certainly true. Just remember how the SNP meme played in England in 2015.
That's all done with, though. This isn't about the SNP holding the strings of a potential UK PM. We've moved on.
That is right, of course in the literal sense. I was thinking of something more visceral - and English impulse that the SNP does not have England's best interest at heart and is not to be trusted.
Not many viewers would assume that Nicola Sturgeon has the best interests of the United Kingdom at heart.
By contrast, when the SNP were battling hard for Scotland - a few said they wished they could have someone as passionate arguing for the English case.
That she's on the EU-side here is interesting. She's keen on Scottish sovereignty - how she plays this tonight is the main reason I'm watching. Salmond has been using it as a coded stick to beat Remain since Day 1.
The one thing to know about Nicola Sturgeon is that she doesn't care about the rest of the UK. She will be pitching to Scottish opinion. Looking statesman-like and operating at the highest level is part of that
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
And then he is going to try and govern with all those people he brutalised on his backbenches... good luck with that. It won't be about remain or leave by then, it will be personal.
Personally I think the real hilarity is going to be Dodgy Dave tearing his party to pieces, making it so that one half the party can't talk to the other without spitting, so that he can stay in his beloved EU... and then FN win in France and the EU implodes. Failing that, he will lose his majority to the kippers in 2020, 5% of voters moving from the Tories to UKIP and they will win 30 seats, and that's the end of that.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
And then he is going to try and govern with all those people he brutalised on his backbenches... good luck with that. It won't be about remain or leave by then, it will be personal.
Personally I think the real hilarity is going to be Dodgy Dave tearing his party to pieces, making it so that one half the party can't talk to the other without spitting, so that he can stay in his beloved EU... and then FN win in France and the EU implodes. Failing that, he will lose his majority to the kippers in 2020, 5% of voters moving from the Tories to UKIP and they will win 30 seats, and that's the end of that.
The FN won't win in France.
Juppe leads Le Pen 70:30 in the second round.
Sarkozy head to head more relevant tho!
I find it hard to see why Les Républicains would commit electoral suicide and go for Sarkozy ahead of Juppe.
The Wollaston defection could prove ruinous for Leave in the following way. While some Leavers base their position on reason, for many, especially since the cult of the later Thatcher, being a euro-sceptic has simply been a condition of being right-wing. If people start looking at Wollaston and thinking 'do I actually believe this guff or am I just doing what I think's expected of me?' then the cult aspect of Leave could start to crumble. Leave can't afford that.
bad news for you then, Wollaston already knocked off the news cycle for Libya and Blair/Major joint campaigning!
I hope we see as much of Blair as possible over the next two weeks.
Thought Sarah Wollaston acquitted herself well and with dignity in the interview with Andrew Neil, who was a tad too hectoring - she just waited patiently until he stopped.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
Do you think, on the whole, Sturgeon is popular in England?
Fair question. She is a consummate politician and I expect her to attack Boris, Gove and IDS hard from the left and will exploit Sarah Wollaston's defection with ease. I also expect a full frontal attack on Farage and probably a clever tying of Vote Leave to Farage. (I think Vote Leave always worrieed about this). The danger for leave is that she will influence the left who are needed to vote remain
I would expect left wing viewers to prefer Sturgeon, and right wing viewers to prefer Johnson, but Johnson to be more popular overall.
That is certainly true. Just remember how the SNP meme played in England in 2015.
That's all done with, though. This isn't about the SNP holding the strings of a potential UK PM. We've moved on.
That is right, of course in the literal sense. I was thinking of something more visceral - and English impulse that the SNP does not have England's best interest at heart and is not to be trusted.
Not many viewers would assume that Nicola Sturgeon has the best interests of the United Kingdom at heart.
For sure Westminster does not have Scotland's interests at heart and shafts us as regularly as they can , big difference is that neither Scotland or Sturgeon can influence any decision made in England given the disparity in size.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
Sturgeon won't help Remain in England. Especially not against Boris.
Sturgeon was an impressive performer in the GE debates. Obviously she has to be careful about lecturing the English - definitely plenty of pitfalls there - but the risk is so blindly obvious I assume she was twigged.
My point is that Tory voting remainers such as myself are going to find it very hard to support a left wing Scot
Anyone who thinks Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP are 'left wing' hasn't been paying attention:
Free University Education for the Middle Classes at the expense of the poor Free prescriptions for the rich at the expense of council services McStasi State Snooper for every child
Its a right wing wet dream......
In what way is 'big state' right-wing?
The SNP have shrunk, relative to England & Wales, spending on both Health & Education - all the things they accuse the Tories of wanting to do, they've done themselves....
The Wollaston defection could prove ruinous for Leave in the following way. While some Leavers base their position on reason, for many, especially since the cult of the later Thatcher, being a euro-sceptic has simply been a condition of being right-wing. If people start looking at Wollaston and thinking 'do I actually believe this guff or am I just doing what I think's expected of me?' then the cult aspect of Leave could start to crumble. Leave can't afford that.
bad news for you then, Wollaston already knocked off the news cycle for Libya and Blair/Major joint campaigning!
I hope we see as much of Blair as possible over the next two weeks.
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
If also point out that, technically, he hadnt linked the 2 sentences. They are independent statements.
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I don't think that Socrates is the most impartial observer.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
What is it with these Greek 'philosophers' (sic)?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men (and women) are afraid of the light.
Exactly. Why are so many Remainers afraid of Britain governing itself and setting a free, democratic example to the whole of Europe?
We are a self governing nation setting an example to Europe.
You don't need to have done PPE to know that.
If we are self governing, why did the PM tell everyone that it was "appauling" to suggest that we would have to pay that extra 1.7bn tax for drug dealers... and then pay it anyway. Either he is a liar, or he doesn't run the country, your choice.
Thought Sarah Wollaston acquitted herself well and with dignity in the interview with Andrew Neil, who was a tad too hectoring - she just waited patiently until he stopped.
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
Sturgeon won't help Remain in England. Especially not against Boris.
Sturgeon was an impressive performer in the GE debates. Obviously she has to be careful about lecturing the English - definitely plenty of pitfalls there - but the risk is so blindly obvious I assume she was twigged.
My point is that Tory voting remainers such as myself are going to find it very hard to support a left wing Scot
Anyone who thinks Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP are 'left wing' hasn't been paying attention:
Free University Education for the Middle Classes at the expense of the poor Free prescriptions for the rich at the expense of council services McStasi State Snooper for every child
Its a right wing wet dream......
In what way is 'big state' right-wing?
Carlotta spouting her rabid lies again, nothing is FREE, the people pay for everything
The Wollaston defection could prove ruinous for Leave in the following way. While some Leavers base their position on reason, for many, especially since the cult of the later Thatcher, being a euro-sceptic has simply been a condition of being right-wing. If people start looking at Wollaston and thinking 'do I actually believe this guff or am I just doing what I think's expected of me?' then the cult aspect of Leave could start to crumble. Leave can't afford that.
bad news for you then, Wollaston already knocked off the news cycle for Libya and Blair/Major joint campaigning!
So you concede my point theoretically, but you just don't think the news coverage is there? Thanks!
Vote REMAIN or the IRA will blow the sh*t out of you!
Nice.
What the...?
This is sad, the two Prime Ministers whose biggest achievement was securing peace in Northern Ireland, standing up and saying that that peace can only be maintained in the EU. Don't they see the magnitude of their own achievements in the mid '90s?
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
@paulwaugh: Several ToryMPs say Govt whips pressuring em to defect - saying "you don't want to be associated with Farage's view of Britain". No10 panic?
Not sure it spells panic. If Remain are going to lose, switching would be a bad idea career wise
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
EIRE may wish to follow us out but, if not, it may be free movement is retained for the island of Ireland but with border controls for the mainland.
A practical solution will be found, they always are.
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
That implies we should vote Remain to cave in to what terrorists would want.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
Sturgeon won't help Remain in England. Especially not against Boris.
Sturgeon was an impressive performer in the GE debates. Obviously she has to be careful about lecturing the English - definitely plenty of pitfalls there - but the risk is so blindly obvious I assume she was twigged.
My point is that Tory voting remainers such as myself are going to find it very hard to support a left wing Scot
Anyone who thinks Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP are 'left wing' hasn't been paying attention:
Free University Education for the Middle Classes at the expense of the poor Free prescriptions for the rich at the expense of council services McStasi State Snooper for every child
Its a right wing wet dream......
In what way is 'big state' right-wing?
Carlotta spouting her rabid lies again, nothing is FREE, the people pay for everything
Afternoon Malc.
I can understand what the Nat's had to put up with in 2014... The full weight of the "establishment" unleashed in all it's arrogance is quite a sight to behold...
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
Ireland is not in Schengen, it is in the CTA. If we left there wouldn't be any changes to this arrangement, anyone talking about border controls with Ireland is talking out of their arse.
This has to be the worst excuse for saying 'I'm not in the mood'
Couples ‘delaying having babies because of fears over a Brexit’
Couples are delaying having children because of worries about the uncertainties of a Brexit, a senior London academic said today.
Professor Michael Bruter of LSE discovered evidence that young voters in particular were “far less likely to make family plans” before the June 23 vote.
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
Pointless scaremongering.
you really havent a clue on NI.
I don't have a GCSE in it, if that's what you mean.
@paulwaugh: Several ToryMPs say Govt whips pressuring em to defect - saying "you don't want to be associated with Farage's view of Britain". No10 panic?
Not sure it spells panic. If Remain are going to lose, switching would be a bad idea career wise
Vote Remain keeps Farage in a job. Leave makes him redundant.
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
EIRE may wish to follow us out but, if not, it may be free movement is retained for the island of Ireland but with border controls for the mainland.
A practical solution will be found, they always are.
The Common Travel Area will be maintained, because:
(a) it would have pretty severe economic consequences on the border communities and (b) it would be extremely expensive to police
Even during the height of the Troubles, when hundreds of British people were being killed every year, the border was kept open. That will not change post-Brexit as Ireland will not join Schengen.
Are we getting close to the angst of SIndy? I don't think so yet - but with two weeks of this to go, I'm beginning to wonder.
No, all hell will break loose when we vote to Remain and the EU continues to pursue an integrationist agenda. An awful lot has been held back until June 24th. I wonder what excuse the Eurofanatics will come up with.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
Sturgeon won't help Remain in England. Especially not against Boris.
Sturgeon was an impressive performer in the GE debates. Obviously she has to be careful about lecturing the English - definitely plenty of pitfalls there - but the risk is so blindly obvious I assume she was twigged.
My point is that Tory voting remainers such as myself are going to find it very hard to support a left wing Scot
Anyone who thinks Nicola Sturgeon or the SNP are 'left wing' hasn't been paying attention:
Free University Education for the Middle Classes at the expense of the poor Free prescriptions for the rich at the expense of council services McStasi State Snooper for every child
Its a right wing wet dream......
In what way is 'big state' right-wing?
The SNP have shrunk, relative to England & Wales, spending on both Health & Education - all the things they accuse the Tories of wanting to do, they've done themselves....
Labour did in the 1970s, I think, as well? Same excuse too - please, sir: that big nasty boy made me do it.
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
Ireland is not in Schengen, it is in the CTA. If we left there wouldn't be any changes to this arrangement, anyone talking about border controls with Ireland is talking out of their arse.
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
That implies we should vote Remain to cave in to what terrorists would want.
And the government is pushing this line?
It means that there are implications for the various courses of action that the government may take. Not that the government shouldn't take action.
You can lather yourself up or spin it as much as you like but it remains the case.
@paulwaugh: Several ToryMPs say Govt whips pressuring em to defect - saying "you don't want to be associated with Farage's view of Britain". No10 panic?
Not sure it spells panic. If Remain are going to lose, switching would be a bad idea career wise
A-ha. More evidence.
The Government are trying to stall and prevent Leave from gaining any more momentum. The media love defector stories and this helps change the narrative.
@edreyesjourno: In receipt of press release for launch of 'provocatively sensual' lingerie brand. Think the PR team can't have read @lawsocgazette recently
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
Pointless scaremongering.
you really havent a clue on NI.
I don't have a GCSE in it, if that's what you mean.
(GPMG perhaps..)
You have no feel for how the people there see things.
Twathead english politicians using NI for their own purposes isn't going to motivate anyone.
All the Prods hate Blair and all the catholics are suspicious of a Tory, so a joint team of the least trsuted politicians out selling a turd in a box is just a really stupid idea.
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
Ireland is not in Schengen, it is in the CTA. If we left there wouldn't be any changes to this arrangement, anyone talking about border controls with Ireland is talking out of their arse.
Thought Sarah Wollaston acquitted herself well and with dignity in the interview with Andrew Neil, who was a tad too hectoring - she just waited patiently until he stopped.
Quite which is why Leave, as Max says below, don't want to allow themselves to be distracted by this and indeed might want to privately have a word with some of their more swivel eyed supporters who are getting on Sarah's case on twitter and elsewhere. Me I pounded the steets last Sunday in Leave's cause and if anyone is reading this from the Tonbridge/Maidstone area and want to help this weekend let me know!
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
Ireland is not in Schengen, it is in the CTA. If we left there wouldn't be any changes to this arrangement, anyone talking about border controls with Ireland is talking out of their arse.
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
Pointless scaremongering.
you really havent a clue on NI.
I don't have a GCSE in it, if that's what you mean.
(GPMG perhaps..)
You have no feel for how the people there see things.
Twathead english politicians using NI for their own purposes isn't going to motivate anyone.
All the Prods hate Blair and all the catholics are suspicious of a Tory, so a joint team of the least trsuted politicians out selling a turd in a box is just a really stupid idea.
The two Brit PMs who delivered peace to Norn Iron. Last time I checked they both had stellar ratings in Northern Ireland.
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
Ireland is not in Schengen, it is in the CTA. If we left there wouldn't be any changes to this arrangement, anyone talking about border controls with Ireland is talking out of their arse.
Snap.
Were you at the Gove lunch yesterday?
No, I had to give it a miss, very busy at the moment, gearing up for E3 as well which just adds to the workload. Are you going this year?
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
And then he is going to try and govern with all those people he brutalised on his backbenches... good luck with that. It won't be about remain or leave by then, it will be personal.
Personally I think the real hilarity is going to be Dodgy Dave tearing his party to pieces, making it so that one half the party can't talk to the other without spitting, so that he can stay in his beloved EU... and then FN win in France and the EU implodes. Failing that, he will lose his majority to the kippers in 2020, 5% of voters moving from the Tories to UKIP and they will win 30 seats, and that's the end of that.
The FN won't win in France.
Juppe leads Le Pen 70:30 in the second round.
Sarkozy head to head more relevant tho!
I find it hard to see why Les Républicains would commit electoral suicide and go for Sarkozy ahead of Juppe.
It's a nationwide primary this time so not entirely within the party's control, though I'm not sure what the qualifications are on who can vote in it.
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
Pointless scaremongering.
you really havent a clue on NI.
I don't have a GCSE in it, if that's what you mean.
(GPMG perhaps..)
You have no feel for how the people there see things.
Twathead english politicians using NI for their own purposes isn't going to motivate anyone.
All the Prods hate Blair and all the catholics are suspicious of a Tory, so a joint team of the least trsuted politicians out selling a turd in a box is just a really stupid idea.
I must thank you and others for the very amusing and very lengthy spat over border issues from last week.
It popped up elsewhere and I used your argument to smack it down. PB can be very helpful and entertaining at the same time
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
EIRE may wish to follow us out but, if not, it may be free movement is retained for the island of Ireland but with border controls for the mainland.
A practical solution will be found, they always are.
The Common Travel Area will be maintained, because:
(a) it would have pretty severe economic consequences on the border communities and (b) it would be extremely expensive to police
Even during the height of the Troubles, when hundreds of British people were being killed every year, the border was kept open. That will not change post-Brexit as Ireland will not join Schengen.
Precisely.
I'm old enough to remember when there were border checks, mostly to stop smuggling it took about 2 minutes to clear both sides.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
And then he is going to try and govern with all those people he brutalised on his backbenches... good luck with that. It won't be about remain or leave by then, it will be personal.
Personally I think the real hilarity is going to be Dodgy Dave tearing his party to pieces, making it so that one half the party can't talk to the other without spitting, so that he can stay in his beloved EU... and then FN win in France and the EU implodes. Failing that, he will lose his majority to the kippers in 2020, 5% of voters moving from the Tories to UKIP and they will win 30 seats, and that's the end of that.
The FN won't win in France.
Juppe leads Le Pen 70:30 in the second round.
Sarkozy head to head more relevant tho!
I find it hard to see why Les Républicains would commit electoral suicide and go for Sarkozy ahead of Juppe.
Sarko controls the institutional mechanisms. If he wants it (and he does) then it's his. I'd prefer Juppe myself , but then I also liked Balladur.
Sarah Wollaston was one of the MPs who surprised me by backing Leave in the first place (not that I followed her views in detail, but she never struck me as the leaving type.) So not mega-surprised that she's switched. It would have been very easy for her just to keep her head down for the next two weeks though, and our macho-politics derides any uncertainty as a "screeching U-Turn" so good on her. I heard a Vote Leave rep on the radio this morning saying how it showed people were changing their minds both ways as they heard the debate - thought that was probably their best response.
No surprise she's been idolised and demonised this morning, a sign of quite how low the debate has sunk. Can it be, that even among those who've looked into it in detail, it's a balanced decision? It certainly is for me, as I've come to the conclusion that taking our frustrations with the EU out would only damage ourselves. Part of the problem is the EU is a monopoly - it doesn't have to work any better because there is no alternative. Perhaps if the vote is to Remain, the sceptics could put their energy into creating EU 2.0
Comments
Yup we can, can't get more self governing than that.
What would Salmond/Sturgeon's reaction have been, if Cameron had derided the SNP as "Little Scotsman" in the Sindy Ref debate?
That's the equivalent of what Remain are trying now. Appalling.
Today, he might get the Brutus treatment from me ;-)
Leave were undoubtedly aware of the risks of going strongly anti-immigration. Their one pager mentioned it but didn't stress it unlike the £350 million a week figure that they repeated four times. They changed their minds.
Free University Education for the Middle Classes at the expense of the poor
Free prescriptions for the rich at the expense of council services
McStasi State Snooper for every child
Its a right wing wet dream......
Clearly Remain Tories think its very big and clever. It sounds very sneery to me.
Plus its 'yo' momma'
Boris and Nicola are important figures in all of this.
What Nicola wants and says was toxic in middle England last year while Boris, on form, projects and enthuses the same group in a way that none of his contemporaries do.
Could you and Osbo just have been seeing double?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Research_Council
this video is a bit worrying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg4goZxXRZk
That she's on the EU-side here is interesting. She's keen on Scottish sovereignty - how she plays this tonight is the main reason I'm watching. Salmond has been using it as a coded stick to beat Remain since Day 1.
Villiers thinks they are talking shite...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36486016
Or speak to Royal Blue who is working for VL in SE London.
Lovely place.
Nice.
Both parts are still on the iplayer.
Are we still waiting for a "proper journo" ?
Good article in the Graun
theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/08/brexit-threat-northern-ireland-border-communities
The vision of border controls plays into the hands of those who have yet to realise the armed struggle is over,” wrote Orde. “Any step backwards is a really bad idea.”
This is sad, the two Prime Ministers whose biggest achievement was securing peace in Northern Ireland, standing up and saying that that peace can only be maintained in the EU. Don't they see the magnitude of their own achievements in the mid '90s?
you really havent a clue on NI.
@paulwaugh: Several ToryMPs say Govt whips pressuring em to defect - saying "you don't want to be associated with Farage's view of Britain". No10 panic?
Not sure it spells panic. If Remain are going to lose, switching would be a bad idea career wise
A practical solution will be found, they always are.
That implies we should vote Remain to cave in to what terrorists would want.
And the government is pushing this line?
Not to mention hardline republicans still hoping that 'they havent gone away'
I can understand what the Nat's had to put up with in 2014... The full weight of the "establishment" unleashed in all it's arrogance is quite a sight to behold...
(GPMG perhaps..)
(a) it would have pretty severe economic consequences on the border communities
and
(b) it would be extremely expensive to police
Even during the height of the Troubles, when hundreds of British people were being killed every year, the border was kept open. That will not change post-Brexit as Ireland will not join Schengen.
Were you at the Gove lunch yesterday?
You can lather yourself up or spin it as much as you like but it remains the case.
The Government are trying to stall and prevent Leave from gaining any more momentum. The media love defector stories and this helps change the narrative.
Watch what Remain are doing, not what they claim.
@edreyesjourno: In receipt of press release for launch of 'provocatively sensual' lingerie brand. Think the PR team can't have read @lawsocgazette recently
Twathead english politicians using NI for their own purposes isn't going to motivate anyone.
All the Prods hate Blair and all the catholics are suspicious of a Tory, so a joint team of the least trsuted politicians out selling a turd in a box is just a really stupid idea.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/04/bertie-ahern-uk-reimpose-irish-border-after-brexit-eu-northern-ireland
It popped up elsewhere and I used your argument to smack it down. PB can be very helpful and entertaining at the same time
http://conservativehome.blogs.com/.a/6a00d83451b31c69e20147e2b767c1970b-300wi
I'm old enough to remember when there were border checks, mostly to stop smuggling it took about 2 minutes to clear both sides.
No surprise she's been idolised and demonised this morning, a sign of quite how low the debate has sunk. Can it be, that even among those who've looked into it in detail, it's a balanced decision? It certainly is for me, as I've come to the conclusion that taking our frustrations with the EU out would only damage ourselves. Part of the problem is the EU is a monopoly - it doesn't have to work any better because there is no alternative. Perhaps if the vote is to Remain, the sceptics could put their energy into creating EU 2.0