Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
I thought Leave were worth backing when they were 31% , I can't see what has changed unless more and more people are picking up on Prof Curtice and Mike pointing out ORB say there poll is Remain ahead by 12% not the 1% the Telegraph report it as.
It's people betting with their hearts, not their heads. In the same way that people kept betting on Jeb Bush long after it was clear he wasn't going to win.
...and others, mentioning no names Mr Eagles, who were laying the hell out of Mr Trump long after it became obvious he was going to be the favourite
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
And then he is going to try and govern with all those people he brutalised on his backbenches... good luck with that. It won't be about remain or leave by then, it will be personal.
Personally I think the real hilarity is going to be Dodgy Dave tearing his party to pieces, making it so that one half the party can't talk to the other without spitting, so that he can stay in his beloved EU... and then FN win in France and the EU implodes. Failing that, he will lose his majority to the kippers in 2020, 5% of voters moving from the Tories to UKIP and they will win 30 seats, and that's the end of that.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
And then he is going to try and govern with all those people he brutalised on his backbenches... good luck with that. It won't be about remain or leave by then, it will be personal.
Personally I think the real hilarity is going to be Dodgy Dave tearing his party to pieces, making it so that one half the party can't talk to the other without spitting, so that he can stay in his beloved EU... and then FN win in France and the EU implodes. Failing that, he will lose his majority to the kippers in 2020, 5% of voters moving from the Tories to UKIP and they will win 30 seats, and that's the end of that.
I struggle to see how some people are saying "she seems so genuine, i truly believe her". She could easily just abstain or have made the same decision weeks ago but she's gone very public just as Cameron needs to pull a rabbit out. The idea that she has had some eureka moment after weighing up the facts (the same facts that have been in the public sphere for weeks) is naive in my opinion.
She doesn't suit your narrative. Many outside the bubble will sympathise with her struggle and and may or may not change their own minds on her comments.
or maybe the fact that she isn't genuine doesn't suit your narrative. Clearly Cameron can do no wrong!
My wife felt she was very genuine and normal as indeed many will as this gets huge broadcast media coverage as I predicted last night. David Cameron has many faults but there is not one Conservative MP that at present could come anywhere near him.
Christ on a bike.
Another serial orgasm from Remainers as they are sure they have it in the bag, another couple of days of gloating, and then the next poll with show a 2% lead for Leave and it will be all doom and gloom again.
It is providing some good betfair trading opportunities, mind.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
And then he is going to try and govern with all those people he brutalised on his backbenches... good luck with that. It won't be about remain or leave by then, it will be personal.
Personally I think the real hilarity is going to be Dodgy Dave tearing his party to pieces, making it so that one half the party can't talk to the other without spitting, so that he can stay in his beloved EU... and then FN win in France and the EU implodes. Failing that, he will lose his majority to the kippers in 2020, 5% of voters moving from the Tories to UKIP and they will win 30 seats, and that's the end of that.
I struggle to see how some people are saying "she seems so genuine, i truly believe her". She could easily just abstain or have made the same decision weeks ago but she's gone very public just as Cameron needs to pull a rabbit out. The idea that she has had some eureka moment after weighing up the facts (the same facts that have been in the public sphere for weeks) is naive in my opinion.
She doesn't suit your narrative. Many outside the bubble will sympathise with her struggle and and may or may not change their own minds on her comments.
or maybe the fact that she isn't genuine doesn't suit your narrative. Clearly Cameron can do no wrong!
My wife felt she was very genuine and normal as indeed many will as this gets huge broadcast media coverage as I predicted last night. David Cameron has many faults but there is not one Conservative MP that at present could come anywhere near him.
Christ on a bike.
Another serial orgasm from Remainers as they are sure they have it in the bag, another couple of days of gloating, and then the next poll with show a 2% lead for Leave and it will be all doom and gloom again.
It is providing some good betfair trading opportunities, mind.
You would have to be uninterested in making money to bet on Remain at current odds.
Bloody hell. Looks like I'll be hitting the streets of Leeds with not one, but two members of the Benn family next week.
Just goes to show how far you have sold out.
Yeah but if he was alive you'd be on the same side as Tony Benn.
These are strange times.
Well since I am not a Tory your point is..... pointless. I would be very pleased to be on the same side as Benn (senior) on many issues, not just the EU.
You on the other hand have sold out. Even you know it.
I'm putting the county first. Country before party.
No you really aren't. You forget we have all watched your progression into the Remain camp over the last few months and it has been very obvious that you are putting party first.
The only good thing is that the one thing you are desperate to save is going to be destroyed by the whole affair. So there is some justice in the world.
Most of us knew from Day One that TSE was always going to go for Remain.
And for similar reasons to Matthew Parris.
TBH, I find the gleeful dancing on the grave of a broken and divided Party really strange. It's a truly Pyrrhic victory for Remain. There's nothing clever in stoking the pyres with cleverdick smuggery and insults.
I can't remember where I read the article but if I recall it was something along the lines that John Major, the PM and George Osborne have been meeting to discuss the future of the party. It was intimated that they are going to destroy the party and from the ashes will rise this modern, pro-Europe party. This probably ties in with the rumours about a cull of parliamentary candidates that don't fit into this objective. Even if this is only partly true and it seems to fit in with what is going on, then it is truly brutal.
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my membership will not be renewed.
I'd rather vote UKIP than Tory if Remain wins. That'd result in a Lib Dem win here in Eastbourne if I'm a typical pissed off voter.
Looking forward to my first email from "Dave" or "George" post referendum asking me for a donation like wot I gave prior to the 2015 GE.
They best hope they don't read the replies.
I got a CCHQ begging request yesterday - I deleted it.
Should have sent them an appropriately worded reply! Are you going to stay a member for your vote in the leadership election, or is it part of Dave's plan that the only members left by the time he resigns will be the hardcore Osbornites?
I am not sure who Dave and George are hoping is going to knock on doors for them after this big split, TSE can't do it all on his own
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
And then he is going to try and govern with all those people he brutalised on his backbenches... good luck with that. It won't be about remain or leave by then, it will be personal.
Personally I think the real hilarity is going to be Dodgy Dave tearing his party to pieces, making it so that one half the party can't talk to the other without spitting, so that he can stay in his beloved EU... and then FN win in France and the EU implodes. Failing that, he will lose his majority to the kippers in 2020, 5% of voters moving from the Tories to UKIP and they will win 30 seats, and that's the end of that.
The FN won't win in France.
Juppe leads Le Pen 70:30 in the second round.
Le Pen's best chance is if Sarkozy and Juppe both run.
Did Mr "Parochial" Hague ever believe any of that "save the pound" and "I'll give you back your country" stuff from 97-01? Seems to me it was all an act because he'd got nothing else to say (because John Major had destroyed the Tories in 1992 when he presided over the house repossession meltdown across Middle England)
I can cope with people like Clarke and Heseltine who have never tried to hide their true beliefs. The real villains are people like Hague and Cameron who have spent decades pretending to be one thing and it turns out it was all a lie...
Quite. The language and tactics are visceral stuff - no one who was a bit half hearted would swap sides, deploy insulting language or demean fellow Party members like this.
Upthread someone mentioned that Woollaston was an Awkward Squadder - I think she's gone beyond that, she's in Team UnReliable. One can be awkward, and consistent. You can't chop and change and expect to be trusted.
Says the ex ~Blair babe soon to be ex Cameroonian
Just goes to show Ms. Plato has a good record of backing "winners" but know's when the time is right to disembark when they become "losers"...
Lol - or that she's a hypocrite.
I have had a very similar trajectory to Ms Plato.
1997 Labour
2001 (didn't bother)
2005 Lib-Dem
2010 Conservative
2015 Conservative
2020 (no idea except it almost certainly won't be Con)
There are actually a surprising number of "hypocrites" who change their voting preferences with the changing time's.
Quite.
1987 Tory 1992 Lib Dem as protest 1997 Labour 2001 Labour 2005 Labour but very reluctant 2010 Tory 2015 Tory
Now I'm feeling rather homeless.
I see Woollaston is wall to wall media interviews. She makes Reckless look principled.
tbh I'm surprised you call Reckless unprincipled, to me he's the opposite.
I must admit I'd never heard of this Woolaston person until now, is there a market on her becoming a Minister on June 24th?
His defection was unprincipled and deliberately designed to wreck - he wasted resources in his own constituency party and then jumped ship for maximum damage. Carswell didn't.
Yes I've heard that said but don't agree, yes he did spend money knowing he was leaving but lots of people have the afternoon off work going to the dentist when it's really a job interview.
His principles cost him his career, arguably. OK I'm biased, I've spent time with him, he's a very nice man, shy, highly intelligent.
I'd love to vote for a party led by him, Carswell and Hannan.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
And then he is going to try and govern with all those people he brutalised on his backbenches... good luck with that. It won't be about remain or leave by then, it will be personal.
Personally I think the real hilarity is going to be Dodgy Dave tearing his party to pieces, making it so that one half the party can't talk to the other without spitting, so that he can stay in his beloved EU... and then FN win in France and the EU implodes. Failing that, he will lose his majority to the kippers in 2020, 5% of voters moving from the Tories to UKIP and they will win 30 seats, and that's the end of that.
The FN won't win in France.
Juppe leads Le Pen 70:30 in the second round.
There are other positions than president available.
Bloody hell. Looks like I'll be hitting the streets of Leeds with not one, but two members of the Benn family next week.
Just goes to show how far you have sold out.
Yeah but if he was alive you'd be on the same side as Tony Benn.
These are strange times.
Well since I am not a Tory your point is..... pointless. I would be very pleased to be on the same side as Benn (senior) on many issues, not just the EU.
You on the other hand have sold out. Even you know it.
I'm putting the county first. Country before party.
No you really aren't. You forget we have all watched your progression into the Remain camp over the last few months and it has been very obvious that you are putting party first.
The only good thing is that the one thing you are desperate to save is going to be destroyed by the whole affair. So there is some justice in the world.
Most of us knew from Day One that TSE was always going to go for Remain.
And for similar reasons to Matthew Parris.
TBH, I find the gleeful dancing on the grave of a broken and divided Party really strange. It's a truly Pyrrhic victory for Remain. There's nothing clever in stoking the pyres with cleverdick smuggery and insults.
I can't remember where I read the article but if I recall it was something along the lines that John Major, the PM and George Osborne have been meeting to discuss the future of the party. It was intimated that they are going to destroy the party and from the ashes will rise this modern, pro-Europe party. This probably ties in with the rumours about a cull of parliamentary candidates that don't fit into this objective. Even if this is only partly true and it seems to fit in with what is going on, then it is truly brutal.
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my membership will not be renewed.
I'd rather vote UKIP than Tory if Remain wins. That'd result in a Lib Dem win here in Eastbourne if I'm a typical pissed off voter.
Looking forward to my first email from "Dave" or "George" post referendum asking me for a donation like wot I gave prior to the 2015 GE.
They best hope they don't read the replies.
I got a CCHQ begging request yesterday - I deleted it.
Should have sent them an appropriately worded reply! Are you going to stay a member for your vote in the leadership election, or is it part of Dave's plan that the only members left by the time he resigns will be the hardcore Osbornites?
If it's a Remain win, I'm definitely off. I'll pay the minimum £25 to keep a vote for the Leadership just to be bloody minded. Then I'll vote UKIP.
Cameron and Osborne have insulted me and my ilk. They don't want us, well fine by me.
Did Mr "Parochial" Hague ever believe any of that "save the pound" and "I'll give you back your country" stuff from 97-01? Seems to me it was all an act because he'd got nothing else to say (because John Major had destroyed the Tories in 1992 when he presided over the house repossession meltdown across Middle England)
I can cope with people like Clarke and Heseltine who have never tried to hide their true beliefs. The real villains are people like Hague and Cameron who have spent decades pretending to be one thing and it turns out it was all a lie...
Quite. The language and tactics are visceral stuff - no one who was a bit half hearted would swap sides, deploy insulting language or demean fellow Party members like this.
Upthread someone mentioned that Woollaston was an Awkward Squadder - I think she's gone beyond that, she's in Team UnReliable. One can be awkward, and consistent. You can't chop and change and expect to be trusted.
Says the ex ~Blair babe soon to be ex Cameroonian
Just goes to show Ms. Plato has a good record of backing "winners" but know's when the time is right to disembark when they become "losers"...
Lol - or that she's a hypocrite.
I have had a very similar trajectory to Ms Plato.
1997 Labour
2001 (didn't bother)
2005 Lib-Dem
2010 Conservative
2015 Conservative
2020 (no idea except it almost certainly won't be Con)
There are actually a surprising number of "hypocrites" who change their voting preferences with the changing time's.
Quite.
1987 Tory 1992 Lib Dem as protest 1997 Labour 2001 Labour 2005 Labour but very reluctant 2010 Tory 2015 Tory
Now I'm feeling rather homeless.
I see Woollaston is wall to wall media interviews. She makes Reckless look principled.
tbh I'm surprised you call Reckless unprincipled, to me he's the opposite.
I must admit I'd never heard of this Woolaston person until now, is there a market on her becoming a Minister on June 24th?
The odds would be too short to be attractive.
She knows about the NHS, are any of the health ministers Leavers?
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
I struggle to see how some people are saying "she seems so genuine, i truly believe her". She could easily just abstain or have made the same decision weeks ago but she's gone very public just as Cameron needs to pull a rabbit out. The idea that she has had some eureka moment after weighing up the facts (the same facts that have been in the public sphere for weeks) is naive in my opinion.
She doesn't suit your narrative. Many outside the bubble will sympathise with her struggle and and may or may not change their own minds on her comments.
or maybe the fact that she isn't genuine doesn't suit your narrative. Clearly Cameron can do no wrong!
My wife felt she was very genuine and normal as indeed many will as this gets huge broadcast media coverage as I predicted last night. David Cameron has many faults but there is not one Conservative MP that at present could come anywhere near him.
Christ on a bike.
Another serial orgasm from Remainers as they are sure they have it in the bag, another couple of days of gloating, and then the next poll with show a 2% lead for Leave and it will be all doom and gloom again.
It is providing some good betfair trading opportunities, mind.
How much did President Obama move the polls to Remain after much backslapping and gloating from the Remain camp... and most voters have heard of him! Yet we are supposed to believe that Dr Wollaston is the secret weapon that is going to win it for Remain. I think some people have been having a few too many sherbets with their lunch.
How much did President Obama move the polls to Remain after much backslapping and gloating from the Remain camp... and most voters have heard of him! Yet we are supposed to believe that Dr Wollaston is the secret weapon that is going to win it for Remain. I think some people have been having a few too many sherbets with their lunch.
It's helpful to Remain, as it enables them to dominate one news cycle, but it's no game-changer.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
And then he is going to try and govern with all those people he brutalised on his backbenches... good luck with that. It won't be about remain or leave by then, it will be personal.
Personally I think the real hilarity is going to be Dodgy Dave tearing his party to pieces, making it so that one half the party can't talk to the other without spitting, so that he can stay in his beloved EU... and then FN win in France and the EU implodes. Failing that, he will lose his majority to the kippers in 2020, 5% of voters moving from the Tories to UKIP and they will win 30 seats, and that's the end of that.
The FN won't win in France.
... and the Kippers won't get 30 seats in 2020.
Yep. They're too divisive to win unless it's a 3 or 4 way marginal.
Bloody hell. Looks like I'll be hitting the streets of Leeds with not one, but two members of the Benn family next week.
Just goes to show how far you have sold out.
Yeah but if he was alive you'd be on the same side as Tony Benn.
These are strange times.
Well since I am not a Tory your point is..... pointless. I would be very pleased to be on the same side as Benn (senior) on many issues, not just the EU.
You on the other hand have sold out. Even you know it.
I'm putting the county first. Country before party.
No you really aren't. You forget we have all watched your progression into the Remain camp over the last few months and it has been very obvious that you are putting party first.
The only good thing is that the one thing you are desperate to save is going to be destroyed by the whole affair. So there is some justice in the world.
Most of us knew from Day One that TSE was always going to go for Remain.
And for similar reasons to Matthew Parris.
TBH, I find the gleeful dancing on the grave of a broken and divided Party really strange. It's a truly Pyrrhic victory for Remain. There's nothing clever in stoking the pyres with cleverdick smuggery and insults.
I can't remember where I read the article but if I recall it was something along the lines that John Major, the PM and George Osborne have been meeting to discuss the future of the party. It was intimated that they are going to destroy the party and from the ashes will rise this modern, pro-Europe party. This probably ties in with the rumours about a cull of parliamentary candidates that don't fit into this objective. Even if this is only partly true and it seems to fit in with what is going on, then it is truly brutal.
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my membership will not be renewed.
I'd rather vote UKIP than Tory if Remain wins. That'd result in a Lib Dem win here in Eastbourne if I'm a typical pissed off voter.
Looking forward to my first email from "Dave" or "George" post referendum asking me for a donation like wot I gave prior to the 2015 GE.
They best hope they don't read the replies.
I got a CCHQ begging request yesterday - I deleted it.
Should have sent them an appropriately worded reply! Are you going to stay a member for your vote in the leadership election, or is it part of Dave's plan that the only members left by the time he resigns will be the hardcore Osbornites?
If it's a Remain win, I'm definitely off. I'll pay the minimum £25 to keep a vote for the Leadership just to be bloody minded. Then I'll vote UKIP.
Cameron and Osborne have insulted me and my ilk. They don't want us, well fine by me.
I keep hearing this, I get a warm glow. The similarities between Cameron and Blair grow stronger every day.
Kin hell, I thought Dr Wollaston was a Westminster bubble story, but this makes me think Leave are really worried about the mother of all shellackings
@LouiseMensch: Sarah Wollaston @SarahWollaston is a gutless coward who has been deleting her anti-EU tweets. Stop lying to the public Sarah #Brexit
Mensch's reaction is unfortunately redolent of Cyber Nats at their worst. I am a Leaver but frankly if this solitary MP wants to change sides so be it. I am not convinced her heart was ever in it as some of her previous comments in this campaign haven't exactly been helpful to Leave. It is however the sort of story the bubble love - it will cause "damage" for 24 hrs but really the best tactic is ignore it and move on.
We're seeing a lot of serious disillusion here from Tory loyalists, but I wonder if it will survive the arrival of a new leader. Whoever it is will obviously make conciliatory noises all round - time to remember what binds us together, respect the dcecision (whatever it is), work together for Britain, etc. I think the dissidents will all fall into line again, unless the new leader has seriously burned his boats.
Did Mr "Parochial" Hague ever believe any of that "save the pound" and "I'll give you back your country" stuff from 97-01? Seems to me it was all an act because he'd got nothing else to say (because John Major had destroyed the Tories in 1992 when he presided over the house repossession meltdown across Middle England)
I can cope with people like Clarke and Heseltine who have never tried to hide their true beliefs. The real villains are people like Hague and Cameron who have spent decades pretending to be one thing and it turns out it was all a lie...
Quite. The language and tactics are visceral stuff - no one who was a bit half hearted would swap sides, deploy insulting language or demean fellow Party members like this.
Upthread someone mentioned that Woollaston was an Awkward Squadder - I think she's gone beyond that, she's in Team UnReliable. One can be awkward, and consistent. You can't chop and change and expect to be trusted.
Says the ex ~Blair babe soon to be ex Cameroonian
Just goes to show Ms. Plato has a good record of backing "winners" but know's when the time is right to disembark when they become "losers"...
Lol - or that she's a hypocrite.
I have had a very similar trajectory to Ms Plato.
1997 Labour
2001 (didn't bother)
2005 Lib-Dem
2010 Conservative
2015 Conservative
2020 (no idea except it almost certainly won't be Con)
There are actually a surprising number of "hypocrites" who change their voting preferences with the changing time's.
Quite.
1987 Tory 1992 Lib Dem as protest 1997 Labour 2001 Labour 2005 Labour but very reluctant 2010 Tory 2015 Tory
Now I'm feeling rather homeless.
I see Woollaston is wall to wall media interviews. She makes Reckless look principled.
tbh I'm surprised you call Reckless unprincipled, to me he's the opposite.
I must admit I'd never heard of this Woolaston person until now, is there a market on her becoming a Minister on June 24th?
His defection was unprincipled and deliberately designed to wreck - he wasted resources in his own constituency party and then jumped ship for maximum damage. Carswell didn't.
An interesting parallel with Gove & Johnson - few doubt Gove's motives, few trust Johnson's...
We're seeing a lot of serious disillusion here from Tory loyalists, but I wonder if it will survive the arrival of a new leader. Whoever it is will obviously make conciliatory noises all round - time to remember what binds us together, respect the dcecision (whatever it is), work together for Britain, etc. I think the dissidents will all fall into line again, unless the new leader has seriously burned his boats.
Parallels with Labour here - there will be no angry backlash against the leadership - just slow disconnection as supporters drift off to do something better with their time.
Sarah Wollaston’s defection to Remain is a blow to the Leave campaign, whatever some of its supporters might say. The Tory MP is notoriously independently-minded, and unafraid of changing her mind, too, which makes her a rare species in Westminster. She is also totally uninterested in a government job, which makes it more difficult for her former allies to claim that she is just jumping ship in order to gain a cosy ministerial position. And Leave made a big song and dance about signing her up in the first place, which makes it even more difficult to claim that her change of heart means nothing.
Clearly if someone changes their mind and goes to another camp it's a blow for the side they're leaving (the exception is that Quinton guy who left the Tories for Labour - They were genuinely glad to be shut of him I think)
But the saving grace for LEAVE is that most people won't have the first idea who she is....
They will by tonight
No, they really won't.
The £350m figure will be brought up and then those representing Leave will explain that the EU dictates how the rebate is spent. It will have a neutral effect on voters as they will be discussing massive amounts of money being spent on EU membership which voters are picking up on.
We're seeing a lot of serious disillusion here from Tory loyalists, but I wonder if it will survive the arrival of a new leader. Whoever it is will obviously make conciliatory noises all round - time to remember what binds us together, respect the dcecision (whatever it is), work together for Britain, etc. I think the dissidents will all fall into line again, unless the new leader has seriously burned his boats.
If the new leader is a Tory, possibly, if its another Cameroon TINO, then no.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Bloody hell. Looks like I'll be hitting the streets of Leeds with not one, but two members of the Benn family next week.
Just goes to show how far you have sold out.
Yeah but if he was alive you'd be on the same side as Tony Benn.
These are strange times.
Well since I am not a Tory your point is..... pointless. I would be very pleased to be on the same side as Benn (senior) on many issues, not just the EU.
You on the other hand have sold out. Even you know it.
I'm putting the county first. Country before party.
No you really aren't. You forget we have all watched your progression into the Remain camp over the last few months and it has been very obvious that you are putting party first.
The only good thing is that the one thing you are desperate to save is going to be destroyed by the whole affair. So there is some justice in the world.
Most of us knew from Day One that TSE was always going to go for Remain.
And for similar reasons to Matthew Parris.
TBH, I find the gleeful dancing on the grave of a broken and divided Party really strange. It's a truly Pyrrhic victory for Remain. There's nothing clever in stoking the pyres with cleverdick smuggery and insults.
I can't remember where I read the article but if I recall it was something along the lines that John Major, the PM and George Osborne have been meeting to discuss the future of the party. It was intimated that they are going to destroy the party and from the ashes will rise this modern, pro-Europe party. This probably ties in with the rumours about a cull of parliamentary candidates that don't fit into this objective. Even if this is only partly true and it seems to fit in with what is going on, then it is truly brutal.
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my membership will not be renewed.
I'd rather vote UKIP than Tory if Remain wins. That'd result in a Lib Dem win here in Eastbourne if I'm a typical pissed off voter.
Looking forward to my first email from "Dave" or "George" post referendum asking me for a donation like wot I gave prior to the 2015 GE.
They best hope they don't read the replies.
I got a CCHQ begging request yesterday - I deleted it.
Should have sent them an appropriately worded reply! Are you going to stay a member for your vote in the leadership election, or is it part of Dave's plan that the only members left by the time he resigns will be the hardcore Osbornites?
If it's a Remain win, I'm definitely off. I'll pay the minimum £25 to keep a vote for the Leadership just to be bloody minded. Then I'll vote UKIP.
Cameron and Osborne have insulted me and my ilk. They don't want us, well fine by me.
I don't understand why you'd stay if it's Leave but go if it's Remain, or why you'll vote UKIP in 2020 when certainly Cameron and probably Osborne will be gone by then.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
Sturgeon won't help Remain in England. Especially not against Boris.
How much did President Obama move the polls to Remain after much backslapping and gloating from the Remain camp... and most voters have heard of him! Yet we are supposed to believe that Dr Wollaston is the secret weapon that is going to win it for Remain. I think some people have been having a few too many sherbets with their lunch.
It's helpful to Remain, as it enables them to dominate one news cycle, but it's no game-changer.
It may be a good chunk of the public give out at the 11th hour, and go back to Remain, or we could be witnessing the last hurrah of the old political order of the last 30 years.
Sarah Wollaston’s defection to Remain is a blow to the Leave campaign, whatever some of its supporters might say. The Tory MP is notoriously independently-minded, and unafraid of changing her mind, too, which makes her a rare species in Westminster. She is also totally uninterested in a government job, which makes it more difficult for her former allies to claim that she is just jumping ship in order to gain a cosy ministerial position. And Leave made a big song and dance about signing her up in the first place, which makes it even more difficult to claim that her change of heart means nothing.
Clearly if someone changes their mind and goes to another camp it's a blow for the side they're leaving (the exception is that Quinton guy who left the Tories for Labour - They were genuinely glad to be shut of him I think)
But the saving grace for LEAVE is that most people won't have the first idea who she is....
They will by tonight
No, they really won't.
The £350m figure will be brought up and then those representing Leave will explain that the EU dictates how the rebate is spent. It will have a neutral effect on voters as they will be discussing massive amounts of money being spent on EU membership which voters are picking up on.
With respect how naive can you get
Your flimsy grasp of politics was exposed when you did not realise Eddie Izzard had an interest in politics.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
Sturgeon won't help Remain in England. Especially not against Boris.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
Sturgeon won't help Remain in England. Especially not against Boris.
Sturgeon was an impressive performer in the GE debates. Obviously she has to be careful about lecturing the English - definitely plenty of pitfalls there - but the risk is so blindly obvious I assume she was twigged.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
Sarah Wollaston’s defection to Remain is a blow to the Leave campaign, whatever some of its supporters might say. The Tory MP is notoriously independently-minded, and unafraid of changing her mind, too, which makes her a rare species in Westminster. She is also totally uninterested in a government job, which makes it more difficult for her former allies to claim that she is just jumping ship in order to gain a cosy ministerial position. And Leave made a big song and dance about signing her up in the first place, which makes it even more difficult to claim that her change of heart means nothing.
Clearly if someone changes their mind and goes to another camp it's a blow for the side they're leaving (the exception is that Quinton guy who left the Tories for Labour - They were genuinely glad to be shut of him I think)
But the saving grace for LEAVE is that most people won't have the first idea who she is....
They will by tonight
No, they really won't.
The £350m figure will be brought up and then those representing Leave will explain that the EU dictates how the rebate is spent. It will have a neutral effect on voters as they will be discussing massive amounts of money being spent on EU membership which voters are picking up on.
With respect how naive can you get
Your flimsy grasp of politics was exposed when you did not realise Eddie Izzard had an interest in politics.
He was taking time off until the referendum when it was looking up for Leave, something seems to have inspired him to come back early, can't think what that might be.
Any Leavers need me to Get Out the postal vote in London (central and Northwest mainly) I really want to help after seeing Osborne yesterday-I mean that lie on not undrstanding how the triple lock works??
Sarah Wollaston’s defection to Remain is a blow to the Leave campaign, whatever some of its supporters might say. The Tory MP is notoriously independently-minded, and unafraid of changing her mind, too, which makes her a rare species in Westminster. She is also totally uninterested in a government job, which makes it more difficult for her former allies to claim that she is just jumping ship in order to gain a cosy ministerial position. And Leave made a big song and dance about signing her up in the first place, which makes it even more difficult to claim that her change of heart means nothing.
Clearly if someone changes their mind and goes to another camp it's a blow for the side they're leaving (the exception is that Quinton guy who left the Tories for Labour - They were genuinely glad to be shut of him I think)
But the saving grace for LEAVE is that most people won't have the first idea who she is....
They will by tonight
No, they really won't.
The £350m figure will be brought up and then those representing Leave will explain that the EU dictates how the rebate is spent. It will have a neutral effect on voters as they will be discussing massive amounts of money being spent on EU membership which voters are picking up on.
With respect how naive can you get
Well, we'd be hard pressed to sink to your levels.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
Sturgeon won't help Remain in England. Especially not against Boris.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
Do you think, on the whole, Sturgeon is popular in England?
Bloody hell. Looks like I'll be hitting the streets of Leeds with not one, but two members of the Benn family next week.
Just goes to show how far you have sold out.
Yeah but if he was alive you'd be on the same side as Tony Benn.
These are strange times.
I'm putting the county first. Country before party.
No you really aren't. You forget we have all watched your progression into the Remain camp over the last few months and it has been very obvious that you are putting party first.
The only good thing is that the one thing you are desperate to save is going to be destroyed by the whole affair. So there is some justice in the world.
Most of us knew from Day One that TSE was always going to go for Remain.
And for similar reasons to Matthew Parris.
TBH, I find the gleeful dancing on the grave of a broken and divided Party really strange. It's a truly Pyrrhic victory for Remain. There's nothing clever in stoking the pyres with cleverdick smuggery and insults.
I can't remember where I read the article but if I recall it was something along the lines that John Major, the PM and George Osborne have been meeting to discuss the future of the party. It was intimated that they are going to destroy the party and from the ashes will rise this modern, pro-Europe party. This probably ties in with the rumours about a cull of parliamentary candidates that don't fit into this objective. Even if this is only partly true and it seems to fit in with what is going on, then it is truly brutal.
I can say without a shadow of a doubt that my membership will not be renewed.
I'd rather vote UKIP than Tory if Remain wins. That'd result in a Lib Dem win here in Eastbourne if I'm a typical pissed off voter.
Looking forward to my first email from "Dave" or "George" post referendum asking me for a donation like wot I gave prior to the 2015 GE.
They best hope they don't read the replies.
I got a CCHQ begging request yesterday - I deleted it.
Should have sent them an appropriately worded reply! Are you going to stay a member for your vote in the leadership election, or is it part of Dave's plan that the only members left by the time he resigns will be the hardcore Osbornites?
If it's a Remain win, I'm definitely off. I'll pay the minimum £25 to keep a vote for the Leadership just to be bloody minded. Then I'll vote UKIP.
Cameron and Osborne have insulted me and my ilk. They don't want us, well fine by me.
I don't understand why you'd stay if it's Leave but go if it's Remain, or why you'll vote UKIP in 2020 when certainly Cameron and probably Osborne will be gone by then.
If Leave wins, then we'll be back driving the bus and those with a sceptical agenda like me will have something to govern on.
If Remain wins, whether Cameron or Osborne goes - the agenda is set. I've nothing to gain by voting Tory - I was mislead. It's the All The Same Party.
Leave are in for a complete battering over the next two weeks. The PM and No 10 are going to be absolutely brutal.
And then he is going to try and govern with all those people he brutalised on his backbenches... good luck with that. It won't be about remain or leave by then, it will be personal.
Personally I think the real hilarity is going to be Dodgy Dave tearing his party to pieces, making it so that one half the party can't talk to the other without spitting, so that he can stay in his beloved EU... and then FN win in France and the EU implodes. Failing that, he will lose his majority to the kippers in 2020, 5% of voters moving from the Tories to UKIP and they will win 30 seats, and that's the end of that.
The FN won't win in France.
Juppe leads Le Pen 70:30 in the second round.
Though to get there, he (1) has to win the nomination, and (2) has to make the second round. There's certainly a good chance of both but it's not guaranteed.
The route to a Le Pen presidency involves a split centre/centre-right to the extent that Hollande finishes second. Of course, to get there he too has to be nominated; he also needs to up his game a little but swingback should work to his advantage. And the centre/centre-right may divide, particularly if Sarkozy defeats Juppe for the nomination.
From there, we end up in a reverse 2002, except that Le Pen is outpolling Hollande in head-to-heads.
I don't think it's likely - for her to win involves quite a lot to come together. It's probably more likely in the event of a Leave than a Remain in the UK, to the extent that it matters at all. For all that, it's conceivable in a way that it hasn't been before.
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I don't think that Socrates is the most impartial observer.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I don't think that Socrates is the most impartial observer.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I don't think that Socrates is the most impartial observer.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
Sturgeon won't help Remain in England. Especially not against Boris.
Sturgeon was an impressive performer in the GE debates. Obviously she has to be careful about lecturing the English - definitely plenty of pitfalls there - but the risk is so blindly obvious I assume she was twigged.
My point is that Tory voting remainers such as myself are going to find it very hard to support a left wing Scot against one of the most popular right wing politicians of the times. Id imagine undecided English voters are going to go for Boris. Xxx
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I don't think that Socrates is the most impartial observer.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
What is it with these Greek 'philosophers' (sic)?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men (and women) are afraid of the light.
Any Leavers need me to Get Out the postal vote in London (central and Northwest mainly) I really want to help after seeing Osborne yesterday-I mean that lie on not undrstanding how the triple lock works??
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
I am.
If we vote Remain I make Woolaston 1/33 to be a minister in a reshuffle.
If we vote Leave 33/1.
Let me know how much you want.
If this is open to all I'll have £3 on Woolaston not being made a minister if Remain win. In the first reshuffle, I presume, not in an open ended 'any reshuffle'. Bet void if Leave win.
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I don't think that Socrates is the most impartial observer.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
What is it with these Greek 'philosophers' (sic)?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men (and women) are afraid of the light.
Perhaps we can tempt him with an egg, watrecress and hemlock sandwich for lunch.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
I would have thought that the PM v the leader of UKIP has more box office in an EURef, particularly as it was on first. Time will tell.
I don't think it's likely - for her to win involves quite a lot to come together. It's probably more likely in the event of a Leave than a Remain in the UK, to the extent that it matters at all. For all that, it's conceivable in a way that it hasn't been before.
There is also a legislative election in France next year, have to see if FN can take any seats this time.
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I don't think that Socrates is the most impartial observer.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
What is it with these Greek 'philosophers' (sic)?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men (and women) are afraid of the light.
Perhaps we can tempt him with an egg, watrecress and hemlock sandwich for lunch.
Which reminds me, where you at the Oxford Union EC referendum debate in 1975 that featured Ted Heath, Jeremy Thorpe, Peter Shore, and Barbara Castle?
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I used to work as a management consultant in the Cabinet Office. It's colocated with much of the Treasury. I shared a lift with George Osborne - twice.
Also, Matt Hancock is cabinet office minister and a very close ally of Osborne.
I'm not saying it's 100% true but i certainly wouldn't discount it.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
Do you think, on the whole, Sturgeon is popular in England?
Fair question. She is a consummate politician and I expect her to attack Boris, Gove and IDS hard from the left and will exploit Sarah Wollaston's defection with ease. I also expect a full frontal attack on Farage and probably a clever tying of Vote Leave to Farage. (I think Vote Leave always worrieed about this). The danger for leave is that she will influence the left who are needed to vote remain
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
Sturgeon won't help Remain in England. Especially not against Boris.
Sturgeon was an impressive performer in the GE debates. Obviously she has to be careful about lecturing the English - definitely plenty of pitfalls there - but the risk is so blindly obvious I assume she was twigged.
My point is that Tory voting remainers such as myself are going to find it very hard to support a left wing Scot against one of the most popular right wing politicians of the times. Id imagine undecided English voters are going to go for Boris. Xxx
Yep.
I was at WHL a few years back watching Spurs play Utd who had to win to stop Arsenal winning the league. When Utd scored loads of Spurs fans cheered, it was bizarre.
This is what Cameron has done, driven politics down to the level of tribalism seen on terraces. He won't be forgiven.
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I don't think that Socrates is the most impartial observer.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
What is it with these Greek 'philosophers' (sic)?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men (and women) are afraid of the light.
Exactly. Why are so many Remainers afraid of Britain governing itself and setting a free, democratic example to the whole of Europe?
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
Do you think, on the whole, Sturgeon is popular in England?
Fair question. She is a consummate politician and I expect her to attack Boris, Gove and IDS hard from the left and will exploit Sarah Wollaston's defection with ease. I also expect a full frontal attack on Farage and probably a clever tying of Vote Leave to Farage. (I think Vote Leave always worrieed about this). The danger for leave is that she will influence the left who are needed to vote remain
So you admit she's not popular in England but claim I was clutching at straws.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
Do you think, on the whole, Sturgeon is popular in England?
Fair question. She is a consummate politician and I expect her to attack Boris, Gove and IDS hard from the left and will exploit Sarah Wollaston's defection with ease. I also expect a full frontal attack on Farage and probably a clever tying of Vote Leave to Farage. (I think Vote Leave always worrieed about this). The danger for leave is that she will influence the left who are needed to vote remain
I would expect left wing viewers to prefer Sturgeon, and right wing viewers to prefer Johnson, but Johnson to be more popular overall.
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I don't think that Socrates is the most impartial observer.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
What is it with these Greek 'philosophers' (sic)?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men (and women) are afraid of the light.
Exactly. Why are so many Remainers afraid of Britain governing itself and setting a free, democratic example to the whole of Europe?
We are a self governing nation setting an example to Europe.
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I used to work as a management consultant in the Cabinet Office. It's colocated with much of the Treasury. I shared a lift with George Osborne - twice.
Also, Matt Hancock is cabinet office minister and a very close ally of Osborne.
I'm not saying it's 100% true but i certainly wouldn't discount it.
I used to hear all sorts when I worked in Whitehall - being a freelancer made me almost invisible.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
I would have thought that the PM v the leader of UKIP has more box office in an EURef, particularly as it was on first. Time will tell.
The format is different, tonight's is a debate between three on each side hosted by Julie Etchingham, who is very professional, unlike Cameron following Farage
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
I would have thought that the PM v the leader of UKIP has more box office in an EURef, particularly as it was on first. Time will tell.
It wasn't a debate though - IIRC tonight at Wembley is a debate of 3 vs 3.
I struggle to see how some people are saying "she seems so genuine, i truly believe her". She could easily just abstain or have made the same decision weeks ago but she's gone very public just as Cameron needs to pull a rabbit out. The idea that she has had some eureka moment after weighing up the facts (the same facts that have been in the public sphere for weeks) is naive in my opinion.
She doesn't suit your narrative. Many outside the bubble will sympathise with her struggle and and may or may not change their own minds on her comments.
or maybe the fact that she isn't genuine doesn't suit your narrative. Clearly Cameron can do no wrong!
My wife felt she was very genuine and normal as indeed many will as this gets huge broadcast media coverage as I predicted last night. David Cameron has many faults but there is not one Conservative MP that at present could come anywhere near him.
Christ on a bike.
Another serial orgasm from Remainers as they are sure they have it in the bag, another couple of days of gloating, and then the next poll with show a 2% lead for Leave and it will be all doom and gloom again.
It is providing some good betfair trading opportunities, mind.
I wonder if your Dad is tempted to wade in again and back LEAVE at 4.5 on Betfair? .... Perhaps he'll tell us.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
Do you think, on the whole, Sturgeon is popular in England?
Fair question. She is a consummate politician and I expect her to attack Boris, Gove and IDS hard from the left and will exploit Sarah Wollaston's defection with ease. I also expect a full frontal attack on Farage and probably a clever tying of Vote Leave to Farage. (I think Vote Leave always worrieed about this). The danger for leave is that she will influence the left who are needed to vote remain
I would expect left wing viewers to prefer Sturgeon, and right wing viewers to prefer Johnson, but Johnson to be more popular overall.
I'm a right wing viewer who respects the fact that Sturgeon was elected democratically and is an operator. I'm betting Nicola does detail better than Boris and if that is so, then he is going to get a shellacking and I'm going to enjoy watching it.
Boris' obvious attack line is what's good for Scotland is not good for the UK, etc
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
Do you think, on the whole, Sturgeon is popular in England?
Fair question. She is a consummate politician and I expect her to attack Boris, Gove and IDS hard from the left and will exploit Sarah Wollaston's defection with ease. I also expect a full frontal attack on Farage and probably a clever tying of Vote Leave to Farage. (I think Vote Leave always worrieed about this). The danger for leave is that she will influence the left who are needed to vote remain
I would expect left wing viewers to prefer Sturgeon, and right wing viewers to prefer Johnson, but Johnson to be more popular overall.
That is certainly true. Just remember how the SNP meme played in England in 2015.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
Do you think, on the whole, Sturgeon is popular in England?
Fair question. She is a consummate politician and I expect her to attack Boris, Gove and IDS hard from the left and will exploit Sarah Wollaston's defection with ease. I also expect a full frontal attack on Farage and probably a clever tying of Vote Leave to Farage. (I think Vote Leave always worrieed about this). The danger for leave is that she will influence the left who are needed to vote remain
I would expect left wing viewers to prefer Sturgeon, and right wing viewers to prefer Johnson, but Johnson to be more popular overall.
That is certainly true. Just remember how the SNP meme played in England in 2015.
That's all done with, though. This isn't about the SNP holding the strings of a potential UK PM. We've moved on.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
Do you think, on the whole, Sturgeon is popular in England?
Fair question. She is a consummate politician and I expect her to attack Boris, Gove and IDS hard from the left and will exploit Sarah Wollaston's defection with ease. I also expect a full frontal attack on Farage and probably a clever tying of Vote Leave to Farage. (I think Vote Leave always worrieed about this). The danger for leave is that she will influence the left who are needed to vote remain
So you admit she's not popular in England but claim I was clutching at straws.
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I don't think that Socrates is the most impartial observer.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
What is it with these Greek 'philosophers' (sic)?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men (and women) are afraid of the light.
Exactly. Why are so many Remainers afraid of Britain governing itself and setting a free, democratic example to the whole of Europe?
We are a self governing nation setting an example to Europe.
You don't need to have done PPE to know that.
I have listed a whole range of powers the UK doesn't have (trade, regional, commercial, regulatory, justice, borders, and creeping integration in foreign affairs in my blog) and we are contributing to the EU being (at present) the only practical future on offer to the peoples of Europe. Many of which are intensely unhappy. The renegotiation demonstrated the EU won't change and the threats show how unpleasant it has become.
It's about time we offered them a free, democratic alternative and exercised true leadership in Europe.
This has to be the worst excuse for saying 'I'm not in the mood'
Couples ‘delaying having babies because of fears over a Brexit’
Couples are delaying having children because of worries about the uncertainties of a Brexit, a senior London academic said today.
Professor Michael Bruter of LSE discovered evidence that young voters in particular were “far less likely to make family plans” before the June 23 vote.
On the £350m, the whole point of using that figure was precisely that it was tenuous. That way, it gets continually talked about by both sides, helping the fact that there is a large cost - whatever it might actually be - sink in.
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I used to work as a management consultant in the Cabinet Office. It's colocated with much of the Treasury. I shared a lift with George Osborne - twice.
Also, Matt Hancock is cabinet office minister and a very close ally of Osborne.
I'm not saying it's 100% true but i certainly wouldn't discount it.
It's certainly possible that she has been offered something in Health, but tbh, it doesn't matter. The reaction should be, "Sarah who?". Best to just ignore it and move on to addressing the economic case, this is all just a sideshow that is getting the Leave camp off message, which is probably the intended effect. When we were arguing about Tory splits and "Westminster" stories remain were winning, when we moved on to the issues, leave were winning. Remain are scared to debate the issues because they know the EU is shit and not easy to defend, they are trying (and unfortunately succeeding) to move the debate back in to a political argument, where there is no doubt they are more professional.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
Box office ? I'm interested in politics but this campiagn has been so dire, the next fortnight can't go fast enough. Faced with the choice of watching Boris Bullshit and Nicola Nitpick lying for an hour I'll be watching House of Cards box set instead.
I think you're getting carried away with what people actually want to spend their time on.
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I don't think that Socrates is the most impartial observer.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
What is it with these Greek 'philosophers' (sic)?
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men (and women) are afraid of the light.
Exactly. Why are so many Remainers afraid of Britain governing itself and setting a free, democratic example to the whole of Europe?
We are a self governing nation setting an example to Europe.
You don't need to have done PPE to know that.
We have to prostrate ourselves to Brussels in order to take the VAT off tampons.
On the £350m, the whole point of using that figure was precisely that it was tenuous. That way, it gets continually talked about by both sides, helping the fact that there is a large cost - whatever it might actually be - sink in.
Indeed.
Both sides agree that we send billions to the EU.
The net figure was £8.5 billion in 2015, which works out at £163 million a week.
By contrast, India got only £279 million for the whole YEAR.
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I used to work as a management consultant in the Cabinet Office. It's colocated with much of the Treasury. I shared a lift with George Osborne - twice.
Also, Matt Hancock is cabinet office minister and a very close ally of Osborne.
I'm not saying it's 100% true but i certainly wouldn't discount it.
As a potential future event, it's entirely possible. But the idea that it's a widely-known truth throughout the Cabinet Office seems somewhat implausible. It may be that some have accurately pieced together a conclusion based on telephone calls, visits or whatever but that'd still be supposition at this stage.
I still find it odd that she'd defect on the offchance of a minor appointment (she now is utterly tied to Remain), given that you'd think that she'd probably have been in line for one anyway whichever side won.
Did Mr "Parochial" Hague ever believe any of that "save the pound" and "I'll give you back your country" stuff from 97-01? Seems to me it was all an act because he'd got nothing else to say (because John Major had destroyed the Tories in 1992 when he presided over the house repossession meltdown across Middle England)
I can cope with people like Clarke and Heseltine who have never tried to hide their true beliefs. The real villains are people like Hague and Cameron who have spent decades pretending to be one thing and it turns out it was all a lie...
Quite. The language and tactics are visceral stuff - no one who was a bit half hearted would swap sides, deploy insulting language or demean fellow Party members like this.
Upthread someone mentioned that Woollaston was an Awkward Squadder - I think she's gone beyond that, she's in Team UnReliable. One can be awkward, and consistent. You can't chop and change and expect to be trusted.
Says the ex ~Blair babe soon to be ex Cameroonian
Just goes to show Ms. Plato has a good record of backing "winners" but know's when the time is right to disembark when they become "losers"...
Lol - or that she's a hypocrite.
I have had a very similar trajectory to Ms Plato.
1997 Labour
2001 (didn't bother)
2005 Lib-Dem
2010 Conservative
2015 Conservative
2020 (no idea except it almost certainly won't be Con)
There are actually a surprising number of "hypocrites" who change their voting preferences with the changing time's.
Quite.
1987 Tory 1992 Lib Dem as protest 1997 Labour 2001 Labour 2005 Labour but very reluctant 2010 Tory 2015 Tory
Now I'm feeling rather homeless.
I see Woollaston is wall to wall media interviews. She makes Reckless look principled.
tbh I'm surprised you call Reckless unprincipled, to me he's the opposite.
I must admit I'd never heard of this Woolaston person until now, is there a market on her becoming a Minister on June 24th?
The odds would be too short to be attractive.
She knows about the NHS, are any of the health ministers Leavers?
My guess is that a lot of voters in the south and east of the country will hear her argument about migrant usage of the NHS compared to employment and raise at least one eyebrow, if not both.
People know what they see and hear.
They also have enough sense to correlate increased need for NHS migrant workers with increased presence of migrant patients.
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
I would have thought that the PM v the leader of UKIP has more box office in an EURef, particularly as it was on first. Time will tell.
It wasn't a debate though - IIRC tonight at Wembley is a debate of 3 vs 3.
I don't think this is at Wembley. I thought the Wembley date was Sadiq Khan v Boris towards the end of the campaign
Something is moving the market that almost certainly won't affect the result. Leave isn't significantly less likely than three days ago but has gone from 3.2 to 4.4. I'm back on it.
i do agree. it's not discussed on any forums i read, not mentioned in the workplace. Will it still be the headline by the 10 o clock news? the BBC might be leading with it, but it's a slow news day. I just can't see the public who do hear about the story believe her reasoning.
It will continue all day and be worse by 10.00pm as the ITV 2 hour debate featuring Sturgeon v Boris is beamed to the Nation with Sarah Wollaston's incendiary intervention being played big time by Nicola. This is not going away
When you say 'beamed to the nation', how many people are we expecting to tune in, and how many of them will be undecided?
Last ITV debate had four million but this has box office 'Sturgeon v Boris'. Also the broadcast media will put it out on their news channels incessantly, as they do
Do you think, on the whole, Sturgeon is popular in England?
Fair question. She is a consummate politician and I expect her to attack Boris, Gove and IDS hard from the left and will exploit Sarah Wollaston's defection with ease. I also expect a full frontal attack on Farage and probably a clever tying of Vote Leave to Farage. (I think Vote Leave always worrieed about this). The danger for leave is that she will influence the left who are needed to vote remain
I would expect left wing viewers to prefer Sturgeon, and right wing viewers to prefer Johnson, but Johnson to be more popular overall.
That is certainly true. Just remember how the SNP meme played in England in 2015.
That's all done with, though. This isn't about the SNP holding the strings of a potential UK PM. We've moved on.
That is right, of course in the literal sense. I was thinking of something more visceral - and English impulse that the SNP does not have England's best interest at heart and is not to be trusted.
Socrates @suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
Are you offering odds?
Utter drivel of course. Only an imbecile would think that the Cabinet Office has anything to do with Ministerial appointments. Unless this 'friend' is close to Mark Harper (Chief Whip), Osborne or Cameron then they haven't a clue. Dear oh dear.
I used to work as a management consultant in the Cabinet Office. It's colocated with much of the Treasury. I shared a lift with George Osborne - twice.
Also, Matt Hancock is cabinet office minister and a very close ally of Osborne.
I'm not saying it's 100% true but i certainly wouldn't discount it.
It's certainly possible that she has been offered something in Health, but tbh, it doesn't matter. The reaction should be, "Sarah who?". Best to just ignore it and move on to addressing the economic case, this is all just a sideshow that is getting the Leave camp off message, which is probably the intended effect. When we were arguing about Tory splits and "Westminster" stories remain were winning, when we moved on to the issues, leave were winning. Remain are scared to debate the issues because they know the EU is shit and not easy to defend, they are trying (and unfortunately succeeding) to move the debate back in to a political argument, where there is no doubt they are more professional.
As many have said on here, including me, Leave has the best line - immigration. Unambiguous, tangible, incontrovertible.
Not on PB, of course, where PB Leavers have more or less all welcomed an EEA-type arrangement (if somehow the Romanians and Bulgarians could be excluded).
But for the rest of the country, much of the Leave vote is focused on immigration. Remain of course has to find ways of taking peoples' attention of this central, unarguable issue and I suppose they are using every trick and turn to do so.
As regards Dr W, listening to her she seemed a sensible enough type. I have no reason not to take her at her word as to why the change, but then it's probably what I wanted to hear so no surprises there. I think it would have done more good to Remain if she had been a Lab, rather than Cons MP.
Comments
His principles cost him his career, arguably. OK I'm biased, I've spent time with him, he's a very nice man, shy, highly intelligent.
I'd love to vote for a party led by him, Carswell and Hannan.
Cameron and Osborne have insulted me and my ilk. They don't want us, well fine by me.
http://politicalodds.bet/eu-referendum?time=30#i
How much did President Obama move the polls to Remain after much backslapping and gloating from the Remain camp... and most voters have heard of him! Yet we are supposed to believe that Dr Wollaston is the secret weapon that is going to win it for Remain. I think some people have been having a few too many sherbets with their lunch.
Socrates
@suttonnick I have a friend who works in Cabinet Office. She's been offered a ministerial position for this in the coming reshuffle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viw5JXopin0
The known unknown is how many more are there?
We just don't know.
If we vote Remain I make Woolaston 1/33 to be a minister in a reshuffle.
If we vote Leave 33/1.
Let me know how much you want.
The probability that Remain will win the referendum is now down to 68%."
Well done, Stephen.
https://electionsetc.com/2016/06/08/historical-referendums-and-polls-based-forecast-update/
If Remain wins, whether Cameron or Osborne goes - the agenda is set. I've nothing to gain by voting Tory - I was mislead. It's the All The Same Party.
The route to a Le Pen presidency involves a split centre/centre-right to the extent that Hollande finishes second. Of course, to get there he too has to be nominated; he also needs to up his game a little but swingback should work to his advantage. And the centre/centre-right may divide, particularly if Sarkozy defeats Juppe for the nomination.
From there, we end up in a reverse 2002, except that Le Pen is outpolling Hollande in head-to-heads.
I don't think it's likely - for her to win involves quite a lot to come together. It's probably more likely in the event of a Leave than a Remain in the UK, to the extent that it matters at all. For all that, it's conceivable in a way that it hasn't been before.
The timing of the defection is also helpful for Remain.
From his time line
David Cameron has shown he hates England, and thinks it is "little" without the European Union. The man is a traitor to his country.
You know all about that.
In the first reshuffle, I presume, not in an open ended 'any reshuffle'. Bet void if Leave win.
Also, Matt Hancock is cabinet office minister and a very close ally of Osborne.
I'm not saying it's 100% true but i certainly wouldn't discount it.
I was at WHL a few years back watching Spurs play Utd who had to win to stop Arsenal winning the league. When Utd scored loads of Spurs fans cheered, it was bizarre.
This is what Cameron has done, driven politics down to the level of tribalism seen on terraces. He won't be forgiven.
You don't need to have done PPE to know that.
Boris' obvious attack line is what's good for Scotland is not good for the UK, etc
It's about time we offered them a free, democratic alternative and exercised true leadership in Europe.
Couples ‘delaying having babies because of fears over a Brexit’
Couples are delaying having children because of worries about the uncertainties of a Brexit, a senior London academic said today.
Professor Michael Bruter of LSE discovered evidence that young voters in particular were “far less likely to make family plans” before the June 23 vote.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/couples-delaying-having-babies-because-of-fears-over-a-brexit-a3267481.html
Both sides agree that we send billions to the EU.
I think you're getting carried away with what people actually want to spend their time on.
Very self governing.
(And I say this as a PPE wonk)
By contrast, India got only £279 million for the whole YEAR.
I still find it odd that she'd defect on the offchance of a minor appointment (she now is utterly tied to Remain), given that you'd think that she'd probably have been in line for one anyway whichever side won.
People know what they see and hear.
They also have enough sense to correlate increased need for NHS migrant workers with increased presence of migrant patients.
Not on PB, of course, where PB Leavers have more or less all welcomed an EEA-type arrangement (if somehow the Romanians and Bulgarians could be excluded).
But for the rest of the country, much of the Leave vote is focused on immigration. Remain of course has to find ways of taking peoples' attention of this central, unarguable issue and I suppose they are using every trick and turn to do so.
As regards Dr W, listening to her she seemed a sensible enough type. I have no reason not to take her at her word as to why the change, but then it's probably what I wanted to hear so no surprises there. I think it would have done more good to Remain if she had been a Lab, rather than Cons MP.