politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » What are Remain doing wrong, part. II.
Comments
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Oh he is some to do with the lib dems..yyou learn something new every day ;-)GIN1138 said:
You wouldn't think fringe parties like the Lib-Dems would warrant an invite would you?FrancisUrquhart said:I reckon most of the public will see the car picture & ask who the guy by the yellow mini is & why is he there...
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The sf types might but most of the Catholics (ie the ones who actually darken the doors of the local Catholic church most weeks) tend to vote SDLP and may well vote the same way as the people who attend the baptist church down the road.Pulpstar said:
The Shinner areas of Ireland will go for "Remain", outside of Gibraltar the most "Remain" area of the entire UK. If Mid Ulster ends up voting for "Leave", then every area of the UK will be leaving.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
I wouldnt be surprised if NI votes leave too based on catholic Irish people I have talked to. This is rebellion of the people agsinst an increasingly remote and arrogant British government. Something that aligns quite well with Irish mythology.Pulpstar said:Is it me or are the areas "remain" are strong in sort of resemble the fabled areas that were going to get Ed Miliband to power with the help of the SNP and the Shinners..
Catholic NI +
Scotland +
London +
"Urban North/Wales"
I suspect Nuneaton is going to head for Brexit, and as such we're heading out0 -
Hear hear.Charles said:
Yes.AlastairMeeks said:Could all those Leavers who were calling for the deposition of David Cameron in the event of a Remain vote and his replacement with a reliable Leaver care to reconcile their views with their outrage at the idea that Remainers might not take a Leave vote lying down?
Personnel decisions are different to respecting the decision of the people.0 -
That's encouraging.Paul_Bedfordshire said:The RMT are supporting Brexit because the membership instructed them to.
Have those unions supporting remain taken instruction from their membership?0 -
Three Manchester Councillors failed to pay Council Tax on time.
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-councillors-owning-council-tax-11426134?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter0 -
Only because the leadership is...TheScreamingEagles said:
A majority of Tory MPs are for remainsGIN1138 said:
To help bring the Tories back together?AlastairMeeks said:
Then why is it imperative that they be replaced with Leavers?GIN1138 said:
Nobody has ever said a REMAIN vote should be ignored. Just that whatever happens Cameron will have to carry the can for this fiasco he's created - The Tory Party can't heal with him and Osborne leading them but that doesn't mean the referendum result will be ignored/revered/ etc...AlastairMeeks said:Could all those Leavers who were calling for the deposition of David Cameron in the event of a Remain vote and his replacement with a reliable Leaver care to reconcile their views with their outrage at the idea that Remainers might not take a Leave vote lying down?
Though I think they might go for someone like Theresa who is probably acceptable to all sides (at least for a time)
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I haven't the energy or the diplomacy to launch a political party. I'd be very happy to draw up a manifesto.Pulpstar said:
I'd be sad to see London go, are you going to start the "Lexit" party Mr Meeks ?AlastairMeeks said:
Remainers don't have a problem with freedom of movement. I'm sure we'd allow the yokels to come and work among us if they still wanted to.Indigo said:
Might get a bit quiet of course without the 2m people that commute into London every day...Jobabob said:
The disdain we see for London and Londoners on here daily suggests London would be better of leaving the UK in the event of a Leave vote. We are clearly not appreciated. Better off out!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, must disagree. The advantage for the country is to govern itself through accountable democratic institutions.
Mr. Jobabob, I imagine France would be worse off without Paris, or Mexico without Mexico City.
An independent London is an excellent idea. This might be just the ticket to kickstart the process.0 -
But why should his replacement be a Leaver?Charles said:
Yes.AlastairMeeks said:Could all those Leavers who were calling for the deposition of David Cameron in the event of a Remain vote and his replacement with a reliable Leaver care to reconcile their views with their outrage at the idea that Remainers might not take a Leave vote lying down?
Personnel decisions are different to respecting the decision of the people.0 -
London is the cash cow of the UK - it's earnings go to make everyone else have a better quality of life.Jobabob said:
Where would the rest of the UK be without London?taffys said:NP - it is just that the population of England massively outweighs the population elsewhere. Of equal concern to Leave is the fact that Greater London (8.5 Million) is so pro-remain. If we factor that in at the same rate then the rest of England would have to vote 54-46.
The sole reason why the progressive lobby in England is so desperate to hang onto freedom of movement and mass immigration.
Where would the progressive cause in England be without London's portalectorate?
F**ked. That's where.
Which is EXACTLY what we could say about the UK and the EU.0 -
So after Blair won, did you stop campaigning for a Tory victory ?TheScreamingEagles said:
Will you respect the will of the people if Remains win and stop campaigning for Brexit? I hope you'll come down like a ton of bricks on anyone trying to topple after a Remain victory ?Casino_Royale said:
Ah, fair enough.TheScreamingEagles said:
If you read the previous thread header I wroteSeanT said:
You troll us surely.TheScreamingEagles said:
It would be Country before Party.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, good way to destroy the Conservative Party would be if a Leave win were ignored.
Same reason I'm backing Remain. Country before Party.
I do hope that the decent TSE I remember has not been so debased by this campaign that you would support our MPs deliberately ignoring the democratically expressed will of the British people.
Besides it wouldn't be good for the country, OR the party. It would cause such a grievous and horrific bust-up, it could blow British politics apart; and it would be hideously self harming: our one great USP is that we have a stable democracy that follows the rules.
Now suddenly a parliament calls a referendum, says it is a once in a lifetime decision, but then ignores the vote because it doesn't like the decision taken?
Both main parties would shatter. UKIP would probably win a majority. Insane. The europhiles have gone fucking crazy.
I’m a Remainer, but if the electorate, in their infinite wisdom, choose to Leave the EU, our elected representatives should respect that, failure to do so will widen the disconnect many of the electorate feel they have with their elected representatives.
I trust you to stick by those words.
Its one thing to expect people to not agitate for a new referendum for 15-20 years, but its quite another to expect people to go quietly into that good night and forget their principles. If Remain win, and anyone asks me, my view would be that yes Remain wins, and no we shouldn't have another referendum for a good long time unless something changes, but I am still personally against the EU, and would still seek to convince others of my view.0 -
Mr. T, if the UK does leave, this will make Cameron's legacy quite an interesting one.
I wonder if he'd be comparable to Heraclius (in broad terms, not personal ones).
Ironically, in that analogy, UKIP would be the equivalent of newly founded Islam
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I'm glad to see others have responded to Mr Meeks' question - rather comprehensively, too!0
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Which is exactly why London should cut out the middle man. London should leave the rest of the UK in the left luggage office and join the EU on its own.weejonnie said:
London is the cash cow of the UK - it's earnings go to make everyone else have a better quality of life.Jobabob said:
Where would the rest of the UK be without London?taffys said:NP - it is just that the population of England massively outweighs the population elsewhere. Of equal concern to Leave is the fact that Greater London (8.5 Million) is so pro-remain. If we factor that in at the same rate then the rest of England would have to vote 54-46.
The sole reason why the progressive lobby in England is so desperate to hang onto freedom of movement and mass immigration.
Where would the progressive cause in England be without London's portalectorate?
F**ked. That's where.
Which is EXACTLY what we could say about the UK and the EU.0 -
(1) I will respect the will of the peopleTheScreamingEagles said:
Will you respect the will of the people if Remains win and stop campaigning for Brexit? I hope you'll come down like a ton of bricks on anyone trying to topple after a Remain victory ?Casino_Royale said:
Ah, fair enough.TheScreamingEagles said:
If you read the previous thread header I wroteSeanT said:
You troll us surely.TheScreamingEagles said:
It would be Country before Party.Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, good way to destroy the Conservative Party would be if a Leave win were ignored.
Same reason I'm backing Remain. Country before Party.
I do hope that the decent TSE I remember has not been so debased by this campaign that you would support our MPs deliberately ignoring the democratically expressed will of the British people.
Besides it wouldn't be good for the country, OR the party. It would cause such a grievous and horrific bust-up, it could blow British politics apart; and it would be hideously self harming: our one great USP is that we have a stable democracy that follows the rules.
Now suddenly a parliament calls a referendum, says it is a once in a lifetime decision, but then ignores the vote because it doesn't like the decision taken?
Both main parties would shatter. UKIP would probably win a majority. Insane. The europhiles have gone fucking crazy.
I’m a Remainer, but if the electorate, in their infinite wisdom, choose to Leave the EU, our elected representatives should respect that, failure to do so will widen the disconnect many of the electorate feel they have with their elected representatives.
I trust you to stick by those words.
(2) I will still be a supporter of Brexit
(3) I will take a view as to what is best to do next based on the verdict - my instincts would be along the lines of JamesM and that our EU membership is on probation
(4) Your third question doesn't make any sense0 -
For those inexplicably unfamiliar with the 7th century political situation:
http://thaddeusthesixth.blogspot.co.uk/2012/01/maurice-phocas-and-heraclius.html0 -
Indeed, I was reflecting earlier that what I's just posted on this thread (about) voting for any old party that would take us out of the EU) could be a very dangerous thing to do.williamglenn said:
Choosing the moment when one of our main parties of government is led by Marxists might not be the best time to tear down the old order.Casino_Royale said:
I think Brexit is just about the only thing that could clean up the political culture of this country.Pulpstar said:Is it me or are the areas "remain" are strong in sort of resemble the fabled areas that were going to get Ed Miliband to power with the help of the SNP and the Shinners..
Catholic NI +
Scotland +
London +
"Urban North/Wales"
I suspect Nuneaton is going to head for Brexit, and as such we're heading out
The whole attitude of established politics stinks, from top to bottom.
But OTOH, nobody has chosen this scenario. It's just what consecutive, cumulative events have dealt to us.0 -
When I become directly elected dictator, I plan to administer the UK into several large city states who would pay me an annual tribute for my brilliant leadership.
The capital of the U.K. would move to Sheffield and the capital of England would be Manchester.0 -
With a Remain leader, it will be interesting to see how much of that is conviction and how much loyalty and/or careerism if there is a Leave leader next time.TheScreamingEagles said:
A majority of Tory MPs are for remains and the polls have shown current Tory voters are for RemainGIN1138 said:
To help bring the Tories back together?AlastairMeeks said:
Then why is it imperative that they be replaced with Leavers?GIN1138 said:
Nobody has ever said a REMAIN vote should be ignored. Just that whatever happens Cameron will have to carry the can for this fiasco he's created - The Tory Party can't heal with him and Osborne leading them but that doesn't mean the referendum result will be ignored/revered/ etc...AlastairMeeks said:Could all those Leavers who were calling for the deposition of David Cameron in the event of a Remain vote and his replacement with a reliable Leaver care to reconcile their views with their outrage at the idea that Remainers might not take a Leave vote lying down?
Though I think they might go for someone like Theresa who is probably acceptable to all sides (at least for a time)0 -
It should be whoever the majority of the membership votes for (out of the choice they are given by MPs).midwinter said:
But why should his replacement be a Leaver?Charles said:
Yes.AlastairMeeks said:Could all those Leavers who were calling for the deposition of David Cameron in the event of a Remain vote and his replacement with a reliable Leaver care to reconcile their views with their outrage at the idea that Remainers might not take a Leave vote lying down?
Personnel decisions are different to respecting the decision of the people.
Brexiteers can campaign for a supporter of their cause; Remainiacs for one of their own.0 -
Please campaign for Remain.AlastairMeeks said:
Remainers don't have a problem with freedom of movement. I'm sure we'd allow the yokels to come and work among us if they still wanted to.Indigo said:
Might get a bit quiet of course without the 2m people that commute into London every day...Jobabob said:
The disdain we see for London and Londoners on here daily suggests London would be better of leaving the UK in the event of a Leave vote. We are clearly not appreciated. Better off out!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, must disagree. The advantage for the country is to govern itself through accountable democratic institutions.
Mr. Jobabob, I imagine France would be worse off without Paris, or Mexico without Mexico City.
An independent London is an excellent idea. This might be just the ticket to kickstart the process.0 -
When Leave lose it will be handy to have on one thread the various asseverations from Leavers that they have no intention of revisiting the referendum result.Mortimer said:I'm glad to see others have responded to Mr Meeks' question - rather comprehensively, too!
I have my suspicions that there might be some reconsideration after the event of that particular stance.0 -
Somebody posted here a week or so ago that MPs ought to fear the electorate. I think that's very true.Casino_Royale said:
Chill out. I'm not advocating burning down Westminster.williamglenn said:
Choosing the moment when one of our main parties of government is led by Marxists might not be the best time to tear down the old order.Casino_Royale said:
I think Brexit is just about the only thing that could clean up the political culture of this country.Pulpstar said:Is it me or are the areas "remain" are strong in sort of resemble the fabled areas that were going to get Ed Miliband to power with the help of the SNP and the Shinners..
Catholic NI +
Scotland +
London +
"Urban North/Wales"
I suspect Nuneaton is going to head for Brexit, and as such we're heading out
The whole attitude of established politics stinks, from top to bottom.
I'm advocating making it crystal clear that politicians work for us, and giving them no room to hide in future.0 -
Will be tricky feeding everyone who lives there - won't it? That's the problem when you have too many people in too small an area.AlastairMeeks said:
Which is exactly why London should cut out the middle man. London should leave the rest of the UK in the left luggage office and join the EU on its own.weejonnie said:
London is the cash cow of the UK - it's earnings go to make everyone else have a better quality of life.Jobabob said:
Where would the rest of the UK be without London?taffys said:NP - it is just that the population of England massively outweighs the population elsewhere. Of equal concern to Leave is the fact that Greater London (8.5 Million) is so pro-remain. If we factor that in at the same rate then the rest of England would have to vote 54-46.
The sole reason why the progressive lobby in England is so desperate to hang onto freedom of movement and mass immigration.
Where would the progressive cause in England be without London's portalectorate?
F**ked. That's where.
Which is EXACTLY what we could say about the UK and the EU.
It would be ironic if Lufthansa had to organise a London Airlift to bring in supplies.0 -
One of the few good things that would emerge from a Leave vote is that the chances are radically enhanced of much greater autonomy being given to London.Casino_Royale said:
Please campaign for Remain.AlastairMeeks said:
Remainers don't have a problem with freedom of movement. I'm sure we'd allow the yokels to come and work among us if they still wanted to.Indigo said:
Might get a bit quiet of course without the 2m people that commute into London every day...Jobabob said:
The disdain we see for London and Londoners on here daily suggests London would be better of leaving the UK in the event of a Leave vote. We are clearly not appreciated. Better off out!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, must disagree. The advantage for the country is to govern itself through accountable democratic institutions.
Mr. Jobabob, I imagine France would be worse off without Paris, or Mexico without Mexico City.
An independent London is an excellent idea. This might be just the ticket to kickstart the process.0 -
What was that someone was saying earlier about how all the nice people were working for Remain ?
http://order-order.com/2016/06/06/sexists-for-remain/0 -
Why would London want to stay in a union with people who threaten and blackmail us in such a way? I'd rather be part of an INDEPENDENT LONDON than have to submit to such threats.weejonnie said:
Will be tricky feeding everyone who lives there - won't it? That's the problem when you have too many people in too small an area.AlastairMeeks said:
Which is exactly why London should cut out the middle man. London should leave the rest of the UK in the left luggage office and join the EU on its own.weejonnie said:
London is the cash cow of the UK - it's earnings go to make everyone else have a better quality of life.Jobabob said:
Where would the rest of the UK be without London?taffys said:NP - it is just that the population of England massively outweighs the population elsewhere. Of equal concern to Leave is the fact that Greater London (8.5 Million) is so pro-remain. If we factor that in at the same rate then the rest of England would have to vote 54-46.
The sole reason why the progressive lobby in England is so desperate to hang onto freedom of movement and mass immigration.
Where would the progressive cause in England be without London's portalectorate?
F**ked. That's where.
Which is EXACTLY what we could say about the UK and the EU.
It would be ironic if Lufthansa had to organise a London Airlift to bring in supplies.0 -
''When Leave lose it will be handy to have on one thread the various asseverations from Leavers that they have no intention of revisiting the referendum result.''
Well sir, if you can;t see the difference between voters on a political thread revisiting the result, and defeated MPs trying to overturn a result in parliament, I feel rather sorry for you.
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Remainers totally losing it.midwinter said:
My thoughts exactly. The man is a blight on society, failed leader, abysmal minister, treacherous git, intellectual pygmy etc etc.matt said:
From where I'm sitting all the treachery emanates, and has always emanated, from the Duncan-Smith types. And will continue to do so if remain loses to the extent of trying to depose Cameron and forcing an election if required. The nonsense over the Queens Speech is an example of that in action.midwinter said:
To be fair that's likely whichever side wins. Just can't see where Remainers would go to. If the Lib Dems had more seats/popularity and a more orange book base then I could see that being appealing to some. No Tory is going to touch Labour with a bargepole barring a change of leadership and an almighty shift to the centre.MaxPB said:
Yes I agree with that, the main part of the reluctant remainers will get on board with Brexit as soon as the leadership does. There will be a few traitors though who will agitate and force an election given how slim the majority is.midwinter said:
I suspect Remain Tories will find it much easier to carry on supporting the party if they lose as it really isnt such a big deal to them as it is to Leavers. As you said most of us are supporting remain reluctantly out of loyalty to a man who led the party to the first majority for 20 odd years.0 -
A question I have always wanted answered. Is there any civilized life outside the M25?0
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I'm pretty confident about the hardcore Leaver MPs seeking to play havoc in the wake of a referendum defeat, given that they have already amended the Queen's Speech and sabotaged the budget.taffys said:''When Leave lose it will be handy to have on one thread the various asseverations from Leavers that they have no intention of revisiting the referendum result.''
Well sir, if you can;t see the difference between voters on a political thread revisiting the result, and defeated MPs trying to overturn a result in parliament, I feel rather sorry for you.0 -
Oh dear its the Passport to Pimlico remake.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would London want to stay in a union with people who threaten and blackmail us in such a way? I'd rather be part of an INDEPENDENT LONDON than have to submit to such threats.weejonnie said:
Will be tricky feeding everyone who lives there - won't it? That's the problem when you have too many people in too small an area.AlastairMeeks said:
Which is exactly why London should cut out the middle man. London should leave the rest of the UK in the left luggage office and join the EU on its own.weejonnie said:
London is the cash cow of the UK - it's earnings go to make everyone else have a better quality of life.Jobabob said:
Where would the rest of the UK be without London?taffys said:NP - it is just that the population of England massively outweighs the population elsewhere. Of equal concern to Leave is the fact that Greater London (8.5 Million) is so pro-remain. If we factor that in at the same rate then the rest of England would have to vote 54-46.
The sole reason why the progressive lobby in England is so desperate to hang onto freedom of movement and mass immigration.
Where would the progressive cause in England be without London's portalectorate?
F**ked. That's where.
Which is EXACTLY what we could say about the UK and the EU.
It would be ironic if Lufthansa had to organise a London Airlift to bring in supplies.0 -
Everything's still very close. Sad to see some wibbling nonsense about London leaving the UK instead of making their case for the EU.0
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Pulpstar said:
Not really, London voted for David Miliband in the GE, and Westmoreland voted for Tim Fallon, but neither is PM now.Jobabob said:
Well that's just the problem isn't it?Pulpstar said:
The Shinner areas of Ireland will go for "Remain", outside of Gibraltar the most "Remain" area of the entire UK. If Mid Ulster ends up voting for "Leave", then every area of the UK will be leaving.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
I wouldnt be surprised if NI votes leave too based on catholic Irish people I have talked to. This is rebellion of the people agsinst an increasingly remote and arrogant British government. Something that aligns quite well with Irish mythology.Pulpstar said:Is it me or are the areas "remain" are strong in sort of resemble the fabled areas that were going to get Ed Miliband to power with the help of the SNP and the Shinners..
Catholic NI +
Scotland +
London +
"Urban North/Wales"
I suspect Nuneaton is going to head for Brexit, and as such we're heading out
Areas can't vote whether they themselves want to stay in or not. If NI votes IN but the UK as a whole votes OUT, then NI is OUT.
If London votes IN, which it will do, but the UK as a whole votes OUT then London gets dragged out of the EU against its will, when it is the EU's biggest and most important city.
The whole prospect is utterly ridiculous.
It's Tim Farron
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So you dont see the EU as civilised ?murali_s said:A question I have always wanted answered. Is there any civilized life outside the M25?
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If London went Independent it would have to take the South East with it.
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Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own?Alanbrooke said:
Oh dear its the Passport to Pimlico remake.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would London want to stay in a union with people who threaten and blackmail us in such a way? I'd rather be part of an INDEPENDENT LONDON than have to submit to such threats.weejonnie said:
Will be tricky feeding everyone who lives there - won't it? That's the problem when you have too many people in too small an area.AlastairMeeks said:
Which is exactly why London should cut out the middle man. London should leave the rest of the UK in the left luggage office and join the EU on its own.weejonnie said:
London is the cash cow of the UK - it's earnings go to make everyone else have a better quality of life.Jobabob said:
Where would the rest of the UK be without London?taffys said:NP - it is just that the population of England massively outweighs the population elsewhere. Of equal concern to Leave is the fact that Greater London (8.5 Million) is so pro-remain. If we factor that in at the same rate then the rest of England would have to vote 54-46.
The sole reason why the progressive lobby in England is so desperate to hang onto freedom of movement and mass immigration.
Where would the progressive cause in England be without London's portalectorate?
F**ked. That's where.
Which is EXACTLY what we could say about the UK and the EU.
It would be ironic if Lufthansa had to organise a London Airlift to bring in supplies.0 -
If it wasn't for IDS (in particular) I'd be far more open to Leaves arguments. I'd be interested to know which of my assertions is incorrect? Think they're all pretty much accurate. Thankspbr2013 said:
Remainers totally losing it.midwinter said:
My thoughts exactly. The man is a blight on society, failed leader, abysmal minister, treacherous git, intellectual pygmy etc etc.matt said:
From where I'm sitting all the treachery emanates, and has always emanated, from the Duncan-Smith types. And will continue to do so if remain loses to the extent of trying to depose Cameron and forcing an election if required. The nonsense over the Queens Speech is an example of that in action.midwinter said:
To be fair that's likely whichever side wins. Just can't see where Remainers would go to. If the Lib Dems had more seats/popularity and a more orange book base then I could see that being appealing to some. No Tory is going to touch Labour with a bargepole barring a change of leadership and an almighty shift to the centre.MaxPB said:
Yes I agree with that, the main part of the reluctant remainers will get on board with Brexit as soon as the leadership does. There will be a few traitors though who will agitate and force an election given how slim the majority is.midwinter said:
I suspect Remain Tories will find it much easier to carry on supporting the party if they lose as it really isnt such a big deal to them as it is to Leavers. As you said most of us are supporting remain reluctantly out of loyalty to a man who led the party to the first majority for 20 odd years.0 -
Who ?David_Evershed said:Pulpstar said:
Not really, London voted for David Miliband in the GE, and Westmoreland voted for Tim Fallon, but neither is PM now.Jobabob said:
Well that's just the problem isn't it?Pulpstar said:
The Shinner areas of Ireland will go for "Remain", outside of Gibraltar the most "Remain" area of the entire UK. If Mid Ulster ends up voting for "Leave", then every area of the UK will be leaving.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
I wouldnt be surprised if NI votes leave too based on catholic Irish people I have talked to. This is rebellion of the people agsinst an increasingly remote and arrogant British government. Something that aligns quite well with Irish mythology.Pulpstar said:Is it me or are the areas "remain" are strong in sort of resemble the fabled areas that were going to get Ed Miliband to power with the help of the SNP and the Shinners..
Catholic NI +
Scotland +
London +
"Urban North/Wales"
I suspect Nuneaton is going to head for Brexit, and as such we're heading out
Areas can't vote whether they themselves want to stay in or not. If NI votes IN but the UK as a whole votes OUT, then NI is OUT.
If London votes IN, which it will do, but the UK as a whole votes OUT then London gets dragged out of the EU against its will, when it is the EU's biggest and most important city.
The whole prospect is utterly ridiculous.
It's Tim Farron0 -
And Ed!David_Evershed said:Pulpstar said:
Not really, London voted for David Miliband in the GE, and Westmoreland voted for Tim Fallon, but neither is PM now.Jobabob said:
Well that's just the problem isn't it?Pulpstar said:
The Shinner areas of Ireland will go for "Remain", outside of Gibraltar the most "Remain" area of the entire UK. If Mid Ulster ends up voting for "Leave", then every area of the UK will be leaving.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
I wouldnt be surprised if NI votes leave too based on catholic Irish people I have talked to. This is rebellion of the people agsinst an increasingly remote and arrogant British government. Something that aligns quite well with Irish mythology.Pulpstar said:Is it me or are the areas "remain" are strong in sort of resemble the fabled areas that were going to get Ed Miliband to power with the help of the SNP and the Shinners..
Catholic NI +
Scotland +
London +
"Urban North/Wales"
I suspect Nuneaton is going to head for Brexit, and as such we're heading out
Areas can't vote whether they themselves want to stay in or not. If NI votes IN but the UK as a whole votes OUT, then NI is OUT.
If London votes IN, which it will do, but the UK as a whole votes OUT then London gets dragged out of the EU against its will, when it is the EU's biggest and most important city.
The whole prospect is utterly ridiculous.
It's Tim Farron0 -
Did I suggest closing its borders? No. Open borders, come and work here. It's an open modern internationalist city(-state).Indigo said:
Might get a bit quiet of course without the 2m people that commute into London every day...Jobabob said:
The disdain we see for London and Londoners on here daily suggests London would be better of leaving the UK in the event of a Leave vote. We are clearly not appreciated. Better off out!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, must disagree. The advantage for the country is to govern itself through accountable democratic institutions.
Mr. Jobabob, I imagine France would be worse off without Paris, or Mexico without Mexico City.0 -
I don't think that the rumour about MPs defying the referendum is plausible or at all helpful to Remain. But the wording is a little odd - "stay in the single market". Possibly what this actually means is that they'd insist on EEA membership rather than total isolation - and that would almost certainly reflect what most voters (Remains_half the Brexiteers) would want.
Of course it means continued free movement.0 -
Passport to Islington?Alanbrooke said:
Oh dear its the Passport to Pimlico remake.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would London want to stay in a union with people who threaten and blackmail us in such a way? I'd rather be part of an INDEPENDENT LONDON than have to submit to such threats.weejonnie said:
Will be tricky feeding everyone who lives there - won't it? That's the problem when you have too many people in too small an area.AlastairMeeks said:
Which is exactly why London should cut out the middle man. London should leave the rest of the UK in the left luggage office and join the EU on its own.weejonnie said:
London is the cash cow of the UK - it's earnings go to make everyone else have a better quality of life.Jobabob said:
Where would the rest of the UK be without London?taffys said:NP - it is just that the population of England massively outweighs the population elsewhere. Of equal concern to Leave is the fact that Greater London (8.5 Million) is so pro-remain. If we factor that in at the same rate then the rest of England would have to vote 54-46.
The sole reason why the progressive lobby in England is so desperate to hang onto freedom of movement and mass immigration.
Where would the progressive cause in England be without London's portalectorate?
F**ked. That's where.
Which is EXACTLY what we could say about the UK and the EU.
It would be ironic if Lufthansa had to organise a London Airlift to bring in supplies.
0 -
I didn't realise David Miliband was standing! If only someone had told me!Pulpstar said:
Not really, London voted for David Miliband in the GE, and Westmoreland voted for Tim Fallon, but neither is PM now.Jobabob said:
Well that's just the problem isn't it?Pulpstar said:
The Shinner areas of Ireland will go for "Remain", outside of Gibraltar the most "Remain" area of the entire UK. If Mid Ulster ends up voting for "Leave", then every area of the UK will be leaving.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
I wouldnt be surprised if NI votes leave too based on catholic Irish people I have talked to. This is rebellion of the people agsinst an increasingly remote and arrogant British government. Something that aligns quite well with Irish mythology.Pulpstar said:Is it me or are the areas "remain" are strong in sort of resemble the fabled areas that were going to get Ed Miliband to power with the help of the SNP and the Shinners..
Catholic NI +
Scotland +
London +
"Urban North/Wales"
I suspect Nuneaton is going to head for Brexit, and as such we're heading out
Areas can't vote whether they themselves want to stay in or not. If NI votes IN but the UK as a whole votes OUT, then NI is OUT.
If London votes IN, which it will do, but the UK as a whole votes OUT then London gets dragged out of the EU against its will, when it is the EU's biggest and most important city.
The whole prospect is utterly ridiculous.0 -
With an independent London in the EU, where would you put the border with the rest of the U.K. to stop migrants? You could convert the M25 with a large wall down the centre.
The only problem is that the M25 is only the London border in a few places; mainly the border is inside.0 -
Not at all, but I am saying the London you think youll end up with wont be like the one you have today.AlastairMeeks said:
Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own?Alanbrooke said:
Oh dear its the Passport to Pimlico remake.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would London want to stay in a union with people who threaten and blackmail us in such a way? I'd rather be part of an INDEPENDENT LONDON than have to submit to such threats.weejonnie said:
Will be tricky feeding everyone who lives there - won't it? That's the problem when you have too many people in too small an area.AlastairMeeks said:
Which is exactly why London should cut out the middle man. London should leave the rest of the UK in the left luggage office and join the EU on its own.weejonnie said:
London is the cash cow of the UK - it's earnings go to make everyone else have a better quality of life.Jobabob said:
Where would the rest of the UK be without London?taffys said:NP - it is just that the population of England massively outweighs the population elsewhere. Of equal concern to Leave is the fact that Greater London (8.5 Million) is so pro-remain. If we factor that in at the same rate then the rest of England would have to vote 54-46.
The sole reason why the progressive lobby in England is so desperate to hang onto freedom of movement and mass immigration.
Where would the progressive cause in England be without London's portalectorate?
F**ked. That's where.
Which is EXACTLY what we could say about the UK and the EU.
It would be ironic if Lufthansa had to organise a London Airlift to bring in supplies.
When a city loses it's hinterland it withers. You'll be like a big Trieste or Berlin circa 19700 -
''Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own? ''
Without the South East, yes. So many of the workers who power London forward commute and live there.
So a London/south east independence it is.
Permanently wealthy. Permanently tory.
Suit you down to the ground, Alistair.0 -
I'd say we follow the Ellen Ripley Doctrine on the tricky subject of London.Alanbrooke said:
So you dont see the EU as civilised ?murali_s said:A question I have always wanted answered. Is there any civilized life outside the M25?
0 -
Is the referendum result legally binding or just advisory ?
Does parliament also have to vote to make it legal.0 -
TwistedFireStopper said:
Don't let the door bang you on the arse on the way out!Jobabob said:
The disdain we see for London and Londoners on here daily suggests London would be better of leaving the UK in the event of a Leave vote. We are clearly not appreciated. Better off out!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, must disagree. The advantage for the country is to govern itself through accountable democratic institutions.
Mr. Jobabob, I imagine France would be worse off without Paris, or Mexico without Mexico City.
QED.0 -
We would still be part of the island of Britain and seek friendly relations with the other inhabitants of the island (no matter how reactionary and xenophobic they might be). We just wouldn't be propping up the carrot crunchers financially and being dictated to by them.Alanbrooke said:
Not at all, but I am saying the London you think youll end up with wont be like the one you have today.AlastairMeeks said:
Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own?Alanbrooke said:
Oh dear its the Passport to Pimlico remake.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would London want to stay in a union with people who threaten and blackmail us in such a way? I'd rather be part of an INDEPENDENT LONDON than have to submit to such threats.weejonnie said:
Will be tricky feeding everyone who lives there - won't it? That's the problem when you have too many people in too small an area.AlastairMeeks said:
Which is exactly why London should cut out the middle man. London should leave the rest of the UK in the left luggage office and join the EU on its own.weejonnie said:
London is the cash cow of the UK - it's earnings go to make everyone else have a better quality of life.Jobabob said:
Where would the rest of the UK be without London?taffys said:NP - it is just that the population of England massively outweighs the population elsewhere. Of equal concern to Leave is the fact that Greater London (8.5 Million) is so pro-remain. If we factor that in at the same rate then the rest of England would have to vote 54-46.
The sole reason why the progressive lobby in England is so desperate to hang onto freedom of movement and mass immigration.
Where would the progressive cause in England be without London's portalectorate?
F**ked. That's where.
Which is EXACTLY what we could say about the UK and the EU.
It would be ironic if Lufthansa had to organise a London Airlift to bring in supplies.
When a city loses it's hinterland it withers. You'll be like a big Trieste or Berlin circa 19700 -
ExactlyNickPalmer said:I don't think that the rumour about MPs defying the referendum is plausible or at all helpful to Remain. But the wording is a little odd - "stay in the single market". Possibly what this actually means is that they'd insist on EEA membership rather than total isolation - and that would almost certainly reflect what most voters (Remains_half the Brexiteers) would want.
Of course it means continued free movement.
We did this to death earlier today before Sean woke up
The original story was MPs making the best deal, absolutely NOT changing the result of the vote
See also
Now suppose they are right, and that, in a straight fight, the electorate do indeed prefer "strong Leave" to "Remain". What happens next? This is where the Condorcet Paradox comes in. In this case, it would be up to Parliament (with, quite possibly, a new Prime Minister and other Ministers) to implement Leave. While Parliament and the government would obviously and rightly be bound by the referendum to negotiate the UK's exit from the EU, they wouldn't be bound by anything that Vote Leave had said about how that should be done. With the likelihood of at least some turbulence in financial markets - and, more seriously, with strong pressure from business to resolve the situation in the least destabilising way possible - economic arguments, as well as those of practicality, will come to the fore again.
So, at this point, the Norway option for Leave re-emerges; and, as James Landale reports today, "pro-Remain MPs are considering using their Commons majority to keep Britain inside the EU single market". Would this be defying the will of the electorate? Not obviously; there would likely to be majority support for such a move. Given a decision to Leave, a majority of electorate would probably prefer the Norway option to "straight Leave" (presumably almost all of those who voted Remain, as well as some of those, albeit a minority, who voted Leave). So there would be nothing obviously anti-democratic about Parliament and Whitehall proceeding on this basis.
But the irony, of course, is that given a straight choice - which, in this scenario, they wouldn't have had - a majority of the electorate would probably have preferred Remain to the Norway option; indeed, the considerable polling evidence that they couldn't win on the basis of the Norway option is precisely why Vote Leave chose to rule it out and to focus the campaign on immigration. So the Condorcet cycle is closed; no option is strictly preferred to both the others; and whichever we choose, there's an alternative preferred by a majority of the electorate.
http://www.niesr.ac.uk/blog/condorcet-paradox-work-rock-paper-scissors-eu-referendum0 -
Bye bye xxJobabob said:TwistedFireStopper said:
Don't let the door bang you on the arse on the way out!Jobabob said:
The disdain we see for London and Londoners on here daily suggests London would be better of leaving the UK in the event of a Leave vote. We are clearly not appreciated. Better off out!Morris_Dancer said:Mr. Eagles, must disagree. The advantage for the country is to govern itself through accountable democratic institutions.
Mr. Jobabob, I imagine France would be worse off without Paris, or Mexico without Mexico City.
QED.0 -
Londra Irredenta! Our true natural frontier is the M25!Verulamius said:With an independent London in the EU, where would you put the border with the rest of the U.K. to stop migrants? You could convert the M25 with a large wall down the centre.
The only problem is that the M25 is only the London border in a few places; mainly the border is inside.0 -
Once you were once of those carrot crunchers Norfolk boy then your inner yokel got carried away by the bright lights. :-)AlastairMeeks said:
We would still be part of the island of Britain and seek friendly relations with the other inhabitants of the island (no matter how reactionary and xenophobic they might be). We just wouldn't be propping up the carrot crunchers financially and being dictated to by them.Alanbrooke said:
Not at all, but I am saying the London you think youll end up with wont be like the one you have today.AlastairMeeks said:
Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own?Alanbrooke said:
Oh dear its the Passport to Pimlico remake.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would London want to stay in a union with people who threaten and blackmail us in such a way? I'd rather be part of an INDEPENDENT LONDON than have to submit to such threats.weejonnie said:
Will be tricky feeding everyone who lives there - won't it? That's the problem when you have too many people in too small an area.AlastairMeeks said:
Which is exactly why London should cut out the middle man. London should leave the rest of the UK in the left luggage office and join the EU on its own.weejonnie said:
London is the cash cow of the UK - it's earnings go to make everyone else have a better quality of life.Jobabob said:
Where would the rest of the UK be without London?taffys said:NP - it is just that the population of England massively outweighs the population elsewhere. Of equal concern to Leave is the fact that Greater London (8.5 Million) is so pro-remain. If we factor that in at the same rate then the rest of England would have to vote 54-46.
The sole reason why the progressive lobby in England is so desperate to hang onto freedom of movement and mass immigration.
Where would the progressive cause in England be without London's portalectorate?
F**ked. That's where.
Which is EXACTLY what we could say about the UK and the EU.
It would be ironic if Lufthansa had to organise a London Airlift to bring in supplies.
When a city loses it's hinterland it withers. You'll be like a big Trieste or Berlin circa 1970
But seriously London only survives by succking in talent from elsewhere. If the UK movedits capital then the talent would have a new pole and London would suffer.
Personally Id be all for it.0 -
Thanks for posting that. Hopeful.SeanT said:This is very interesting. Guy who called the election right thinks LEAVE will win - by a distance.
Agree or not, it's very articulate. And he is a REMAINIAN.
https://medium.com/@shaunjlawson/be-in-no-doubt-vote-leave-are-going-to-win-this-referendum-84997776e82d#.mpji0n11w0 -
Not much, but more than within it....murali_s said:A question I have always wanted answered. Is there any civilized life outside the M25?
0 -
London is majority Labour and could well outvote the Tory Southeast, not that the southeast would join with London anyway if as is likely it votes for Brexit and of course much of Essex and the East of England is also commuterbelttaffys said:''Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own? ''
Without the South East, yes. So many of the workers who power London forward commute and live there.
So a London/south east independence it is.
Permanently wealthy. Permanently tory.
Suit you down to the ground, Alistair.0 -
That's a very good article, thanks for posting about it.SeanT said:This is very interesting. Guy who called the election right thinks LEAVE will win - by a distance.
Agree or not, it's very articulate. And he is a REMAINIAN.
https://medium.com/@shaunjlawson/be-in-no-doubt-vote-leave-are-going-to-win-this-referendum-84997776e82d#.mpji0n11w
I particularly agree with the point about a hollowing out of the centre-ground consensus in a response to wider changes in the world. The old ideas aren't working too well, some are looking to the left instead, some to the right. Sooner or later a shock result is going to happen in an election, and it could be Leave, or it could be Trump.0 -
A true nothern powerhouse.TheScreamingEagles said:When I become directly elected dictator, I plan to administer the UK into several large city states who would pay me an annual tribute for my brilliant leadership.
The capital of the U.K. would move to Sheffield and the capital of England would be Manchester.0 -
I don't think it will be a question of them insisting, there will simply be no other offer on the table from the Council.NickPalmer said:I don't think that the rumour about MPs defying the referendum is plausible or at all helpful to Remain. But the wording is a little odd - "stay in the single market". Possibly what this actually means is that they'd insist on EEA membership rather than total isolation - and that would almost certainly reflect what most voters (Remains_half the Brexiteers) would want.
Of course it means continued free movement.
If they want a FTA, then they face the prospect of each nation wanting to get something out of that process to show to their voters, and therefore the very real chance that one will use the unanimity of the 2 year limit to put pressure not just on us, but on Germany.
Take EEA, get out - then the pressure is off - carry on to further change later.0 -
Yes very encouraging could mean C2 swing voters backing Leave.AnneJGP said:
That's encouraging.Paul_Bedfordshire said:The RMT are supporting Brexit because the membership instructed them to.
Have those unions supporting remain taken instruction from their membership?0 -
That is the traditional EU response, certainly.Yorkcity said:
You will be feeling like Corbyn supporters in the Labour party , when the Labour MPs do not accept the result from the membership.SeanT said:I'm sure you've discussed it, but if this story gains traction, and goes viral, then it must be worth 500,000 votes for LEAVE
Mind boggling
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/06/pro-eu-mps-could-mount-guerrilla-campaign-to-reverse-brexit-decision
Some of the lines are chilling
"Pro-European MPs and some government sources believe it may be possible.. to reverse the [referendum] decision"
SOME GOVERNMENT SOURCES
"One possibility for pro-Europeans would be to insert a clause demanding a second referendum on the terms of the renegotiation,"
"the hope that the UK can be persuaded to rethink [after Brexit]."
And my favourite:
"there is an acceptance that politicians would be required to try to act on the decision of the British people."
That's generous of them.
They put him on the ballot , just like Cameron offered the public a referendum even though he now states it would be an f ing disaster for the UK if they vote leave.
However the parallels are the same they will try to turn both votes over.
I always said there might be a second referendum, if the public in their eyes get it wrong the first time.0 -
There are plenty of examples of people commuting across national borders. No need to lumber ourselves with dormitory towns.taffys said:''Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own? ''
Without the South East, yes. So many of the workers who power London forward commute and live there.
So a London/south east independence it is.
Permanently wealthy. Permanently tory.
Suit you down to the ground, Alistair.0 -
There was not much love for Theresa in the House of Commons earlier.GIN1138 said:
To help bring the Tories back together?AlastairMeeks said:
Then why is it imperative that they be replaced with Leavers?GIN1138 said:
Nobody has ever said a REMAIN vote should be ignored. Just that whatever happens Cameron will have to carry the can for this fiasco he's created - The Tory Party can't heal with him and Osborne leading them but that doesn't mean the referendum result will be ignored/revered/ etc...AlastairMeeks said:Could all those Leavers who were calling for the deposition of David Cameron in the event of a Remain vote and his replacement with a reliable Leaver care to reconcile their views with their outrage at the idea that Remainers might not take a Leave vote lying down?
Though I think they might go for someone like Theresa who is probably acceptable to all sides (at least for a time)
0 -
The momentum is with LEAVE but is LEAVE with MOMENTUM?0
-
The RMT is affiliated to TUSC, which supports Brexit.nunu said:
Yes very encouraging could mean C2 swing voters backing Leave.AnneJGP said:
That's encouraging.Paul_Bedfordshire said:The RMT are supporting Brexit because the membership instructed them to.
Have those unions supporting remain taken instruction from their membership?0 -
The prospect of London, as the UK's economic powerhouse and effectively Europe's capital, and with an electorate far more social democratic and pro-multicultural than much of rural and provincial England, being forced out of the EU if it overwhelmingly backs *in*, is certainly very bizarre. At that point you might reasonably wonder if people in London might demand something more than minor steps to greater autonomy. It's not as absurd as it sounds.0
-
No offence, but can you get it through your head that a large number of us who support Brexit are neither xenophobic nor reactionary, please?AlastairMeeks said:
We would still be part of the island of Britain and seek friendly relations with the other inhabitants of the island (no matter how reactionary and xenophobic they might be). We just wouldn't be propping up the carrot crunchers financially and being dictated to by them.Alanbrooke said:
Not at all, but I am saying the London you think youll end up with wont be like the one you have today.AlastairMeeks said:
Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own?Alanbrooke said:
Oh dear its the Passport to Pimlico remake.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would London want to stay in a union with people who threaten and blackmail us in such a way? I'd rather be part of an INDEPENDENT LONDON than have to submit to such threats.weejonnie said:
Will be tricky feeding everyone who lives there - won't it? That's the problem when you have too many people in too small an area.AlastairMeeks said:
Which is exactly why London should cut out the middle man. London should leave the rest of the UK in the left luggage office and join the EU on its own.weejonnie said:
London is the cash cow of the UK - it's earnings go to make everyone else have a better quality of life.Jobabob said:
Where would the rest of the UK be without London?taffys said:NP - it is just that the population of England massively outweighs the population elsewhere. Of equal concern to Leave is the fact that Greater London (8.5 Million) is so pro-remain. If we factor that in at the same rate then the rest of England would have to vote 54-46.
The sole reason why the progressive lobby in England is so desperate to hang onto freedom of movement and mass immigration.
Where would the progressive cause in England be without London's portalectorate?
F**ked. That's where.
Which is EXACTLY what we could say about the UK and the EU.
It would be ironic if Lufthansa had to organise a London Airlift to bring in supplies.
When a city loses it's hinterland it withers. You'll be like a big Trieste or Berlin circa 19700 -
More to the point, if it's a Leave result, what are the chances of independence within the EU for Gibraltar?AlastairMeeks said:
Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own?Alanbrooke said:
Oh dear its the Passport to Pimlico remake.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would London want to stay in a union with people who threaten and blackmail us in such a way? I'd rather be part of an INDEPENDENT LONDON than have to submit to such threats.weejonnie said:
Will be tricky feeding everyone who lives there - won't it? That's the problem when you have too many people in too small an area.AlastairMeeks said:
Which is exactly why London should cut out the middle man. London should leave the rest of the UK in the left luggage office and join the EU on its own.weejonnie said:
London is the cash cow of the UK - it's earnings go to make everyone else have a better quality of life.Jobabob said:
Where would the rest of the UK be without London?taffys said:NP - it is just that the population of England massively outweighs the population elsewhere. Of equal concern to Leave is the fact that Greater London (8.5 Million) is so pro-remain. If we factor that in at the same rate then the rest of England would have to vote 54-46.
The sole reason why the progressive lobby in England is so desperate to hang onto freedom of movement and mass immigration.
Where would the progressive cause in England be without London's portalectorate?
F**ked. That's where.
Which is EXACTLY what we could say about the UK and the EU.
It would be ironic if Lufthansa had to organise a London Airlift to bring in supplies.0 -
That is irrelevant.AlastairMeeks said:
The RMT is affiliated to TUSC, which supports Brexit.nunu said:
Yes very encouraging could mean C2 swing voters backing Leave.AnneJGP said:
That's encouraging.Paul_Bedfordshire said:The RMT are supporting Brexit because the membership instructed them to.
Have those unions supporting remain taken instruction from their membership?
RMT policy was decided democratically by its members at the AGM in Newcastle in June 2015
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/transport-union-to-campaign-for-exit-from-pro-austerity-eu/
http://www.rmt.org.uk/about/policies/political-circulars-and-submissions/referendum-on-membership-of-the-european-union130516/?preview=true0 -
You might as well cite Southam Observer! Incidentally I did some research in Grouchos the other night and I could only count two members of staff out of maybe a dozen who spoke with an accent that suggested they were born in the UK.SeanT said:This is very interesting. Guy who called the election right thinks LEAVE will win - by a distance.
Agree or not, it's very articulate. And he is a REMAINIAN.
https://medium.com/@shaunjlawson/be-in-no-doubt-vote-leave-are-going-to-win-this-referendum-84997776e82d#.mpji0n11w
I love cosmopolitan London!0 -
TheScreamingEagles said:
A majority of Tory MPs are for remains and the polls have shown current Tory voters are for Remain<GIN1138 said:
To help bring the Tories back together?AlastairMeeks said:
Then why is it imperative that they be replaced with Leavers?GIN1138 said:
Nobody has ever said a REMAIN vote should be ignored. Just that whatever happens Cameron will have to carry the can for this fiasco he's created - The Tory Party can't heal with him and Osborne leading them but that doesn't mean the referendum result will be ignored/revered/ etc...AlastairMeeks said:Could all those Leavers who were calling for the deposition of David Cameron in the event of a Remain vote and his replacement with a reliable Leaver care to reconcile their views with their outrage at the idea that Remainers might not take a Leave vote lying down?
Though I think they might go for someone like Theresa who is probably acceptable to all sides (at least for a time)
It's advisory but parliament won't ignore the result.Yorkcity said:Is the referendum result legally binding or just advisory ?
Does parliament also have to vote to make it legal.0 -
Mr. Britain, welcome to pb.com.
Is it any more absurd than a more sceptical part of the UK being forced to remain in? The UK is one country, after all, and every citizen's vote must weigh the same.
Carving England up into pieces would be shortsighted tomfoolery (as I have said of those who want Yorkshire to have an assembly, parliament or suchlike). An English Parliament is the only additional level of devolution required.0 -
Miss JGP, someone here the other day said the Treaty of Utrecht stipulates that should Gibraltar cease to be British the Spanish have first refusal of the territory, so independence for Gibraltar seems unlikely, if that's accurate.0
-
It's difficult when Leave is campaigning exclusively on immigration, including such mendacious posters as this one:Casino_Royale said:
No offence, but can you get it through your head that a large number of us who support Brexit are neither xenophobic nor reactionary, please?
https://dailyelection.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/vote-leave-turkey-is-joining-the-eu-poster1.jpg?w=660
What particularly troubles me about this poster is that the creators had space to clarify exactly what they meant by "Turkey is joining the EU" but rather than use it for that purpose they decided to include the words "(population 76 million)" instead. I wonder why they might have done that?0 -
RealBritain said:
The prospect of London, as the UK's economic powerhouse and effectively Europe's capital, and with an electorate far more social democratic and pro-multicultural than much of rural and provincial England, being forced out of the EU if it overwhelmingly backs *in*, is certainly very bizarre. At that point you might reasonably wonder if people in London might demand something more than minor steps to greater autonomy. It's not as absurd as it sounds.
Perhaps they can have their own elected mayor?
0 -
Because they are totally failing to understand what is happening.SeanT said:
Clearly right.NickPalmer said:I don't think that the rumour about MPs defying the referendum is plausible or at all helpful to Remain. But the wording is a little odd - "stay in the single market". Possibly what this actually means is that they'd insist on EEA membership rather than total isolation - and that would almost certainly reflect what most voters (Remains_half the Brexiteers) would want.
Of course it means continued free movement.
But what the F is up with REMAIN that they can allow even a rumour of this to escape, and in such a damaging fashion? Even the Guardianista are up in arms - switching to LEAVE in droves in the comments.
It just makes every accusation about the EU and europhiles, as arrogant and non democratic etc etc, look absolutely bang on.
Utterly stupid and counter-productive. Someone should sit on Kinnock junior until he shuts up.
And are a bit scared.0 -
Pretty much nil. Spain gets first right of refusal if Gibraltar leaves the UK. I can't imagine them not exercising it.AnneJGP said:
More to the point, if it's a Leave result, what are the chances of independence within the EU for Gibraltar?AlastairMeeks said:
Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own?Alanbrooke said:
Oh dear its the Passport to Pimlico remake.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would London want to stay in a union with people who threaten and blackmail us in such a way? I'd rather be part of an INDEPENDENT LONDON than have to submit to such threats.weejonnie said:
Will be tricky feeding everyone who lives there - won't it? That's the problem when you have too many people in too small an area.AlastairMeeks said:
Which is exactly why London should cut out the middle man. London should leave the rest of the UK in the left luggage office and join the EU on its own.weejonnie said:
London is the cash cow of the UK - it's earnings go to make everyone else have a better quality of life.Jobabob said:
Where would the rest of the UK be without London?taffys said:NP - it is just that the population of England massively outweighs the population elsewhere. Of equal concern to Leave is the fact that Greater London (8.5 Million) is so pro-remain. If we factor that in at the same rate then the rest of England would have to vote 54-46.
The sole reason why the progressive lobby in England is so desperate to hang onto freedom of movement and mass immigration.
Where would the progressive cause in England be without London's portalectorate?
F**ked. That's where.
Which is EXACTLY what we could say about the UK and the EU.
It would be ironic if Lufthansa had to organise a London Airlift to bring in supplies.0 -
We can just plant minefields and watchtowers around the M25 to stop you all escaping when it all goes wrong (secure borders are very important as you may have noticed) and move the capital to Shrewsbury.AlastairMeeks said:
There are plenty of examples of people commuting across national borders. No need to lumber ourselves with dormitory towns.taffys said:''Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own? ''
Without the South East, yes. So many of the workers who power London forward commute and live there.
So a London/south east independence it is.
Permanently wealthy. Permanently tory.
Suit you down to the ground, Alistair.
Better still divide it up by postcode with the more sensible SW, W WC and NW areas are still in England and you have to do your airlift from City Airport.0 -
https://twitter.com/mjhucknall/status/739856105921257472
Mick Hucknall unimpressed with the heir to Ed.0 -
There you go again, THREATENING us. We will not be BLACKMAILED into submission.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
We can just plant minefields around the M25 to stop you escaping when it all goes wrong and move the capital to Shrewsbury.AlastairMeeks said:
There are plenty of examples of people commuting across national borders. No need to lumber ourselves with dormitory towns.taffys said:''Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own? ''
Without the South East, yes. So many of the workers who power London forward commute and live there.
So a London/south east independence it is.
Permanently wealthy. Permanently tory.
Suit you down to the ground, Alistair.0 -
You will when you get hungry enough. We carrot munchers have got all the food and the ports :-)AlastairMeeks said:
There you go again, THREATENING us. We will not be BLACKMAILED into submission.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
We can just plant minefields around the M25 to stop you escaping when it all goes wrong and move the capital to Shrewsbury.AlastairMeeks said:
There are plenty of examples of people commuting across national borders. No need to lumber ourselves with dormitory towns.taffys said:''Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own? ''
Without the South East, yes. So many of the workers who power London forward commute and live there.
So a London/south east independence it is.
Permanently wealthy. Permanently tory.
Suit you down to the ground, Alistair.-1 -
dr_spyn said:
https://twitter.com/mjhucknall/status/739856105921257472
Mick Hucknall unimpressed with the heir to Ed.
I'd have thought Mick Hucknall would have liked Corbyn. After all, out of all the recent Labour leaders trying to reach the centre ground, Corbyn is simply red.
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I wonder how Spain would react if the UK incorporated Gibraltar into the UK like the overseas French departments.AlastairMeeks said:
Pretty much nil. Spain gets first right of refusal if Gibraltar leaves the UK. I can't imagine them not exercising it.AnneJGP said:
More to the point, if it's a Leave result, what are the chances of independence within the EU for Gibraltar?AlastairMeeks said:
Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own?Alanbrooke said:
Oh dear its the Passport to Pimlico remake.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would London want to stay in a union with people who threaten and blackmail us in such a way? I'd rather be part of an INDEPENDENT LONDON than have to submit to such threats.weejonnie said:
Will be tricky feeding everyone who lives there - won't it? That's the problem when you have too many people in too small an area.AlastairMeeks said:
Which is exactly why London should cut out the middle man. London should leave the rest of the UK in the left luggage office and join the EU on its own.weejonnie said:
London is the cash cow of the UK - it's earnings go to make everyone else have a better quality of life.Jobabob said:
Where would the rest of the UK be without London?taffys said:NP - it is just that the population of England massively outweighs the population elsewhere. Of equal concern to Leave is the fact that Greater London (8.5 Million) is so pro-remain. If we factor that in at the same rate then the rest of England would have to vote 54-46.
The sole reason why the progressive lobby in England is so desperate to hang onto freedom of movement and mass immigration.
Where would the progressive cause in England be without London's portalectorate?
F**ked. That's where.
Which is EXACTLY what we could say about the UK and the EU.
It would be ironic if Lufthansa had to organise a London Airlift to bring in supplies.0 -
That was meMorris_Dancer said:Miss JGP, someone here the other day said the Treaty of Utrecht stipulates that should Gibraltar cease to be British the Spanish have first refusal of the territory, so independence for Gibraltar seems unlikely, if that's accurate.
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I find Gisela Stuart quite a poor speaker. Much too quiet and has trouble getting her points across. I think she will be overshadowed by the more strident speakers, like Angel Eagle and Nicola Sturgeon. Amber Rudd is no shrinking violet either.nunu said:
Yes Gisela stuart and Andrea will be good Boris not so much, I suspect Nicola will steal the show.Casino_Royale said:
That should be quite good, actually.Scott_P said:@chrisshipitv: Official: line up for @itv Thurs debate
Leave: @BorisJohnson @GiselaStuart @andrealeadsom
Remain: @NicolaSturgeon @angelaeagle @AmberRudd_MP
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The links between London and the rest of the UK are deep and unbreakable - we are a classic example: a West Country family that spends half our time in London and half in the country but have deep roots in both places.AlastairMeeks said:
There are plenty of examples of people commuting across national borders. No need to lumber ourselves with dormitory towns.taffys said:''Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own? ''
Without the South East, yes. So many of the workers who power London forward commute and live there.
So a London/south east independence it is.
Permanently wealthy. Permanently tory.
Suit you down to the ground, Alistair.0 -
Don't forget Sarf East London! I'd be surprised if we don't vote to leave...Paul_Bedfordshire said:
We can just plant minefields and watchtowers around the M25 to stop you all escaping when it all goes wrong (secure borders are very important as you may have noticed) and move the capital to Shrewsbury.AlastairMeeks said:
There are plenty of examples of people commuting across national borders. No need to lumber ourselves with dormitory towns.taffys said:''Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own? ''
Without the South East, yes. So many of the workers who power London forward commute and live there.
So a London/south east independence it is.
Permanently wealthy. Permanently tory.
Suit you down to the ground, Alistair.
Better still divide it up by postcode with the more sensible SW, W WC and NW areas are still in England and you have to do your airlift from City Airport.0 -
Leave aren't campaigning exclusively on immigration.AlastairMeeks said:
It's difficult when Leave is campaigning exclusively on immigration, including such mendacious posters as this one:Casino_Royale said:
No offence, but can you get it through your head that a large number of us who support Brexit are neither xenophobic nor reactionary, please?
https://dailyelection.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/vote-leave-turkey-is-joining-the-eu-poster1.jpg?w=660
What particularly troubles me about this poster is that the creators had space to clarify exactly what they meant by "Turkey is joining the EU" but rather than use it for that purpose they decided to include the words "(population 76 million)" instead. I wonder why they might have done that?
But one gets the impression that any campaign to control it would incur your ire anyway.0 -
That was your opportunity to condemn that poster. Don't bleat next time Leavers are described as xenophobic and reactionary.Casino_Royale said:
Leave aren't campaigning exclusively on immigration.AlastairMeeks said:
It's difficult when Leave is campaigning exclusively on immigration, including such mendacious posters as this one:Casino_Royale said:
No offence, but can you get it through your head that a large number of us who support Brexit are neither xenophobic nor reactionary, please?
https://dailyelection.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/vote-leave-turkey-is-joining-the-eu-poster1.jpg?w=660
What particularly troubles me about this poster is that the creators had space to clarify exactly what they meant by "Turkey is joining the EU" but rather than use it for that purpose they decided to include the words "(population 76 million)" instead. I wonder why they might have done that?
But one gets the impression that any campaign to control it would incur your ire anyway.0 -
I suspect that will mean that Gib never leaves the UKAlastairMeeks said:
Pretty much nil. Spain gets first right of refusal if Gibraltar leaves the UK. I can't imagine them not exercising it.AnneJGP said:
More to the point, if it's a Leave result, what are the chances of independence within the EU for Gibraltar?AlastairMeeks said:
Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own?Alanbrooke said:
Oh dear its the Passport to Pimlico remake.AlastairMeeks said:
Why would London want to stay in a union with people who threaten and blackmail us in such a way? I'd rather be part of an INDEPENDENT LONDON than have to submit to such threats.weejonnie said:
Will be tricky feeding everyone who lives there - won't it? That's the problem when you have too many people in too small an area.AlastairMeeks said:
Which is exactly why London should cut out the middle man. London should leave the rest of the UK in the left luggage office and join the EU on its own.weejonnie said:
London is the cash cow of the UK - it's earnings go to make everyone else have a better quality of life.Jobabob said:
Where would the rest of the UK be without London?taffys said:NP - it is just that the population of England massively outweighs the population elsewhere. Of equal concern to Leave is the fact that Greater London (8.5 Million) is so pro-remain. If we factor that in at the same rate then the rest of England would have to vote 54-46.
The sole reason why the progressive lobby in England is so desperate to hang onto freedom of movement and mass immigration.
Where would the progressive cause in England be without London's portalectorate?
F**ked. That's where.
Which is EXACTLY what we could say about the UK and the EU.
It would be ironic if Lufthansa had to organise a London Airlift to bring in supplies.0 -
Mr. (Miss? Sorry, I forget, there is a Blue someone who is a lady), thanks 0
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.0
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I'm sure Lib Dems, Greens, SNP and most of Labour do want Remain to win.
Of course, they don't want Remain to win TOO well. Anything over 55-57 looks dangerously like a victory for David Cameron at this point.0 -
Getting a bit fruity in here ^^;;;
50 billion migrants vs 50 trillion quid - which is it to be
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The border would not be there to stop migrants entering London; it would be there to stop undesirables getting to the rest of the U.K. as London would have freedom of movement within the EU.0
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As long as it dosent include the newly gentrified bits inner bits with single digit postcodes & yoghurt knittersRoyalBlue said:
Don't forget Sarf East London! I'd be surprised if we don't vote to leave...Paul_Bedfordshire said:
We can just plant minefields and watchtowers around the M25 to stop you all escaping when it all goes wrong (secure borders are very important as you may have noticed) and move the capital to Shrewsbury.AlastairMeeks said:
There are plenty of examples of people commuting across national borders. No need to lumber ourselves with dormitory towns.taffys said:''Are you saying that London is too small and too stupid to survive on its own? ''
Without the South East, yes. So many of the workers who power London forward commute and live there.
So a London/south east independence it is.
Permanently wealthy. Permanently tory.
Suit you down to the ground, Alistair.
Better still divide it up by postcode with the more sensible SW, W WC and NW areas are still in England and you have to do your airlift from City Airport.0
