Does anyone agree with me that Sky and BBC are possessed with the death of Muhammad Ali. All day both have a 'breaking news' strap line of his death even though it was announced early this morning. As I dip into the news during the day it is all I am getting, wall to wall coverage. In my opinion it is a complete fail of their role to provide news
You are obviously too young to understand his importance to boxing, the black community and the anti Vietnam war..
An Amazing guy, I thought he really was "The Greatest"
Did you ever see his fights, or stay up to listen in the early hours of the morning like I did.??. Not particularly a boxing fan, but I was a big fan of Muhammad Ali .
Random anecdote alert: Spent morning giving out leaflets and campaigning in Hull for Vote Leave. 10 or so outside St Stephens Shopping Centre. Very positive feedback (as it should be tbf). Certainly ahead in presence in Hull and East Yorkshire if that matters (it doesn't). Still battle is joined.
Definately age difference with older much more favourable and was surprised how many said had voted already (though could equally just be a way of avoiding us!)
3 BSE in Beverley looking forgotten. Felt sorry for them. Almost.
Still fighting the good fight for Gilmore?
Dressed in black and still in mourning...
On a serious note. A couple weeks back I did rate Leave in Gilmour terms. We seem to be doing much better though... Still think we'll lose but but am encouraged.
Those that know. What should Hull / East Yorkshire be if its 50/50? I'd guess 55-45 Leave EY 45/55 Hull?
If leave were to win this I am sure DC would announce a period where he oversees the Goverment while a leadership election takes place. However the big loser would be Corbyn as his MP's would be incandescent with him leading to his overthrow
Why should his MPs be incandescent? The loss of the referendum could not reasonably be blamed on Corbyn. If his MPs overthrew him he would almost certainly be reelected. There is no easy way out for Labour.
Indeed in the event of Brexit the half hearted approach of Jezza may well chime with the national mood. He would be able to come round to the new Landscape faster than most. He could then campaign to have all the EU workers rights more firmly entrenched in British law, and the extra NHS funding promised by having a Labour govt post Brexit govt
All the EU workers rights are in English law.
The good thing about English law is that we can change it to suit our needs, according to democratic will of the people.
The post Brexit election manifestos would be a right wing "bonfire of regulations" Tory one vs a "anti-austerity and workers rights" Labour one.
Labour could well win that one, certainly not a nailed on victory for the baby eaters.
3. No, I can see that you can't see that. That is why history keeps repeating itself. Also note the various civil wars across the former Soviet union.
Would you accept that the ideal of many sovereign nations all trading freely with each other doesn't eliminate all possible sources of conflict and war?
I cited the Soviet Union because it genuinely was a dystopia on a monumental scale and yet the conflicts post break-up are either ancient ethnic battles not attributable to the USSR, or due to an irredentist Russia. And if you think the EU is anything like the USSR I think you need to get some perspective.
Nation states that trade can and do go to war, for example WW1. Democracies are less likely to go to war with each other.
However false states always fall apart, the question isn't if, but when, and how many people die as a result.
Does anyone agree with me that Sky and BBC are possessed with the death of Muhammad Ali. All day both have a 'breaking news' strap line of his death even though it was announced early this morning. As I dip into the news during the day it is all I am getting, wall to wall coverage. In my opinion it is a complete fail of their role to provide news
You are obviously too young to understand his importance to boxing, the black community and the anti Vietnam war..
An Amazing guy, I thought he really was "The Greatest"
At 72 I am only 2 years younger and remember the importance he was to history. But there is a balance and that is totally missing today
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
Bertie Ahern says that border controls will have to be implemented.
Of course, he'll be dismissed immediately as an EU/Cameron stooge and puppet of 'Project Fear', but in my experience the Irish know their politics.
Given that EU citizens will have no problems getting across the channel (for holidays etc) without a visa I can't see why they would want to get in illegally via the Irish route. They could get in illegally by claiming they are just here for a holiday. Surely much more direct and cheaper.
But hey, it's a remain argument, lets not let logic or facts get in the way of a bit of scaremongering.
Ahern's point is that the border between Northern Ireland and Eire couldn't survive in its current state if it became the single land border between a non-EU Britain and the EU - it would be just too vulnerable to abuse. But dealing with that problem would also damage our trading relations with Eire. I think he's right. It could be a real buggers muddle, and that's without throwing all the other Northern Ireland complexities into the pot.
As there's every chance Dublin would become our surrogate in the EU-London's financial services for example-there's every reason for them to set up a border. In the event of a Brexit they're going to be the big winners.
You know things must be getting desperate for remain when they have to wheel out windbag kinnock to try and reach labour voters. The man who lost an election twice
After pleading to pensioners in SAGA magazine and threaten WW3, we'll never host the Olympics or WCup again...I'm not sure what's left for Remain.
Santa will be barred from visiting the UK on Xmas eve?
Won't get enough points Ison the new visa scheme.
Isn't Santa Turkish?
St George was Syrian
Probably. The fact he is still patron Saint of England is, in my view, a disgrace. He was foisted to us by the Norman clique that held sway after the conquest.
We should go back to St Edmund, a proper English saint and whilst about it we could dump the white duster of his flag and re-introduce England's proper flag - the White Dragon.
I would far prefer St Sir Thomas More (one of Gove's predecessors as Lord High Chancellor).
A patron saint who would I'm sure have been a poster here were he alive now.
1. I fail to see any good reason why I should wish to see the UK become part of a federal State called Europe.
I don't think it will ever be a State in that sense. It will be (and already is) a supranational federation from which any member state will always have the option to leave at any time.
Save that Juncker would have them treated as deserters..
Wow! Thanks to Innocenta Broad, I've learned today that the old maxim "Charity starts at home" is racist. Have to stop teaching it to the kids.
To the left, particularly Libdems it is. They regard the whole concept of giving precedence to your own nation familiy or tribe/community as inherently discriminating.
Don`t be so silly, Mr Bedfordshire. Please....
I know - the everyone is racist except me type posts annoyed me
If leave were to win this I am sure DC would announce a period where he oversees the Goverment while a leadership election takes place. However the big loser would be Corbyn as his MP's would be incandescent with him leading to his overthrow
Why should his MPs be incandescent? The loss of the referendum could not reasonably be blamed on Corbyn. If his MPs overthrew him he would almost certainly be reelected. There is no easy way out for Labour.
Indeed in the event of Brexit the half hearted approach of Jezza may well chime with the national mood. He would be able to come round to the new Landscape faster than most. He could then campaign to have all the EU workers rights more firmly entrenched in British law, and the extra NHS funding promised by having a Labour govt post Brexit govt
I suspect Corbyn would take great heart from the British rejection of the whole neo-liberal EU project. New alliances would then be forged with fellow nations who have no truck with western capitalist imperialism. I'm thinking Russia, Iran and Venezuela initially. Corbyn would look to the pulling out of NATO next, as the next phase of his dismantlement. The problem is, the momentum (forgive the pun) would be all his and very difficult to counter.
Does anyone agree with me that Sky and BBC are possessed with the death of Muhammad Ali. All day both have a 'breaking news' strap line of his death even though it was announced early this morning. As I dip into the news during the day it is all I am getting, wall to wall coverage. In my opinion it is a complete fail of their role to provide news
In general I think the media always go overboard with the death of anyone well-known - they have massive material in stock ready for anyone famous dying, and simply wheel it out. An additional factor at the moment may be that they feel that the public is fed up with referendum stuff - hell, even we nerds are struggling a bit.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
Growth after one of the biggest modern Irish recessions? That sort of growth?
Prey, if the EU was stupid enough to put in tariffs (which I doubt, to be fair), how would Ireland cope? Answer would be to leave the EU.
If leave were to win this I am sure DC would announce a period where he oversees the Goverment while a leadership election takes place. However the big loser would be Corbyn as his MP's would be incandescent with him leading to his overthrow
Why should his MPs be incandescent? The loss of the referendum could not reasonably be blamed on Corbyn. If his MPs overthrew him he would almost certainly be reelected. There is no easy way out for Labour.
Indeed in the event of Brexit the half hearted approach of Jezza may well chime with the national mood. He would be able to come round to the new Landscape faster than most. He could then campaign to have all the EU workers rights more firmly entrenched in British law, and the extra NHS funding promised by having a Labour govt post Brexit govt
All the EU workers rights are in English law.
The good thing about English law is that we can change it to suit our needs, according to democratic will of the people.
The post Brexit election manifestos would be a right wing "bonfire of regulations" Tory one vs a "anti-austerity and workers rights" Labour one.
Labour could well win that one, certainly not a nailed on victory for the baby eaters.
The bonfire of the regulations need not be labour related ones. In fact I rather suspect they will not be.
If leave were to win this I am sure DC would announce a period where he oversees the Goverment while a leadership election takes place. However the big loser would be Corbyn as his MP's would be incandescent with him leading to his overthrow
Why should his MPs be incandescent? The loss of the referendum could not reasonably be blamed on Corbyn. If his MPs overthrew him he would almost certainly be reelected. There is no easy way out for Labour.
Indeed in the event of Brexit the half hearted approach of Jezza may well chime with the national mood. He would be able to come round to the new Landscape faster than most. He could then campaign to have all the EU workers rights more firmly entrenched in British law, and the extra NHS funding promised by having a Labour govt post Brexit govt
All the EU workers rights are in English law.
The good thing about English law is that we can change it to suit our needs, according to democratic will of the people.
The post Brexit election manifestos would be a right wing "bonfire of regulations" Tory one vs a "anti-austerity and workers rights" Labour one.
Labour could well win that one, certainly not a nailed on victory for the baby eaters.
How is LD dreamland these days?
Post Brexit Tory manifesto would likely be focused on bureaucratic deregulation for small businesses, cutting of VAT rates for some pretty significant items and, er, you know, the striking of trade deals with a whole new world of opportunities.
You obviously like to think us Tories dislike workers: on the contrary, we'd rather our governments governed for everyone. One Nation and all that. Sadly our current leadership seem to have forgotten this.
If leave were to win this I am sure DC would announce a period where he oversees the Goverment while a leadership election takes place. However the big loser would be Corbyn as his MP's would be incandescent with him leading to his overthrow
Why should his MPs be incandescent? The loss of the referendum could not reasonably be blamed on Corbyn. If his MPs overthrew him he would almost certainly be reelected. There is no easy way out for Labour.
Indeed in the event of Brexit the half hearted approach of Jezza may well chime with the national mood. He would be able to come round to the new Landscape faster than most. He could then campaign to have all the EU workers rights more firmly entrenched in British law, and the extra NHS funding promised by having a Labour govt post Brexit govt
All the EU workers rights are in English law.
The good thing about English law is that we can change it to suit our needs, according to democratic will of the people.
The post Brexit election manifestos would be a right wing "bonfire of regulations" Tory one vs a "anti-austerity and workers rights" Labour one.
Labour could well win that one, certainly not a nailed on victory for the baby eaters.
The bonfire of the regulations need not be labour related ones. In fact I rather suspect they will not be.
What happens if the EU one day wakes up and decides that it really has to make itself more competitive on the global stage to address the chronic unemployment and lack of growth that many of its countries have? At that point these social burdens would be gone and these Labour europhiles would be....
It won't wake up - it is too wedded to the welfare state - can you imagine the austerity and violence from the left as they try and wean everyone off it?
Well we see a little bit in the strikes in France.
Does anyone agree with me that Sky and BBC are possessed with the death of Muhammad Ali. All day both have a 'breaking news' strap line of his death even though it was announced early this morning. As I dip into the news during the day it is all I am getting, wall to wall coverage. In my opinion it is a complete fail of their role to provide news
In general I think the media always go overboard with the death of anyone well-known - they have massive material in stock ready for anyone famous dying, and simply wheel it out. An additional factor at the moment may be that they feel that the public is fed up with referendum stuff - hell, even we nerds are struggling a bit.
Agree with that but there is other news ( not the referendum) that is not being covered.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
Growth after one of the biggest modern Irish recessions? That sort of growth?
Prey, if the EU was stupid enough to put in tariffs (which I doubt, to be fair), how would Ireland cope? Answer would be to leave the EU.
More wishful thinking , Ireland exports over 3 times as much to other EU countries as it does to the UK twice as much to the USA
Everyone wanting to settle in Britain on a permanent basis who is not British by birth should be subject to the same rights and rules when deciding who will be accepted.
Including the Irish?
Yes. They are a separate country and should be subject to the same rules as any other country.
Bear in mind that personaly I would not anticipate reducing the numbers of people coming necessarily. But we would treat everyone equally and the basis would be the needs of our economy and our country.
The only proviso I would put to this is I would like to see us continue to take asylum seekers from war (perhaps in greater numbers) although as Cyclefree said the other day we should look at how long they would stay and whether permanent settlement was suitable or not.
I would too (though with dual citizenship where chosen) for the Irish.
One other anomaly that needs sorting out is Commonwealth voting. It is absurd that someone can vote after being here a couple of weeks if they come from Bangladesh or Canada but not after a decade of residence if Polish. All migrants wanting the right to vote (or claim some benefits) should be required (and encouraged) to become British citizens.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
Growth after one of the biggest modern Irish recessions? That sort of growth?
Prey, if the EU was stupid enough to put in tariffs (which I doubt, to be fair), how would Ireland cope? Answer would be to leave the EU.
More wishful thinking , Ireland exports over 3 times as much to other EU countries as it does to the UK twice as much to the USA
Gosh, I didn't realise we were that significant a part of their trade, given the relative sizes of those three markets. Thanks for confirming my conclusion.
TCPoliticalBetting "When the last trump sounds and I'm called to join God's army the man I would most want to have fightin at my side is "Smokin" Joe Fraser" MOHAMMAD ALI So let it be
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
Growth after one of the biggest modern Irish recessions? That sort of growth?
Prey, if the EU was stupid enough to put in tariffs (which I doubt, to be fair), how would Ireland cope? Answer would be to leave the EU.
More wishful thinking , Ireland exports over 3 times as much to other EU countries as it does to the UK twice as much to the USA
Gosh, I didn't realise we were that significant a part of their trade, given the relative sizes of those three markets. Thanks for confirming my conclusion.
Your conclusion is as false as your dreams for the future post Brexit .
Does anyone agree with me that Sky and BBC are possessed with the death of Muhammad Ali. All day both have a 'breaking news' strap line of his death even though it was announced early this morning. As I dip into the news during the day it is all I am getting, wall to wall coverage. In my opinion it is a complete fail of their role to provide news
You are obviously too young to understand his importance to boxing, the black community and the anti Vietnam war..
An Amazing guy, I thought he really was "The Greatest"
Did you ever see his fights, or stay up to listen in the early hours of the morning like I did.??. Not particularly a boxing fan, but I was a big fan of Muhammad Ali .
I don't think I have watched a boxing match since Ali in the Seventies (on telly obviously). He was far more than a boxer, being the most prominent African American of the time of the collapse of segregation with a charisma and wit that few could match.
A real star, and a very visible reminder of how being punched repeatedly on the head is not good for your brain.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
There are plenty of flags of other EU countries flying in Dublin. Except one - the Union Jack.
The bullet holes in the facade of the GPO on O'Connell Street are still plain to see.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
Growth after one of the biggest modern Irish recessions? That sort of growth?
Prey, if the EU was stupid enough to put in tariffs (which I doubt, to be fair), how would Ireland cope? Answer would be to leave the EU.
More wishful thinking , Ireland exports over 3 times as much to other EU countries as it does to the UK twice as much to the USA
Gosh, I didn't realise we were that significant a part of their trade, given the relative sizes of those three markets. Thanks for confirming my conclusion.
Your conclusion is as false as your dreams for the future post Brexit .
Wow, your Ciceronian rhetoric has changed my mind.
Does anyone agree with me that Sky and BBC are possessed with the death of Muhammad Ali. All day both have a 'breaking news' strap line of his death even though it was announced early this morning. As I dip into the news during the day it is all I am getting, wall to wall coverage. In my opinion it is a complete fail of their role to provide news
You are obviously too young to understand his importance to boxing, the black community and the anti Vietnam war..
An Amazing guy, I thought he really was "The Greatest"
Did you ever see his fights, or stay up to listen in the early hours of the morning like I did.??. Not particularly a boxing fan, but I was a big fan of Muhammad Ali .
I don't think I have watched a boxing match since Ali in the Seventies (on telly obviously). He was far more than a boxer, being the most prominent African American of the time of the collapse of segregation with a charisma and wit that few could match.
A real star, and a very visible reminder of how being punched repeatedly on the head is not good for your brain.
When Floyd Mayweather is now your biggest star, you know your sport has problems...
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
You know things must be getting desperate for remain when they have to wheel out windbag kinnock to try and reach labour voters. The man who lost an election twice
After pleading to pensioners in SAGA magazine and threaten WW3, we'll never host the Olympics or WCup again...I'm not sure what's left for Remain.
Santa will be barred from visiting the UK on Xmas eve?
Won't get enough points Ison the new visa scheme.
Isn't Santa Turkish?
St George was Syrian
Probably. The fact he is still patron Saint of England is, in my view, a disgrace. He was foisted to us by the Norman clique that held sway after the conquest.
We should go back to St Edmund, a proper English saint and whilst about it we could dump the white duster of his flag and re-introduce England's proper flag - the White Dragon.
I would far prefer St Sir Thomas More (one of Gove's predecessors as Lord High Chancellor).
A patron saint who would I'm sure have been a poster here were he alive now.
Given what happened to my ancestor I am inclined to agree with Melvin Bragg:
"Thomas More, who was so vile and excrementally vivid that it is difficult to read him even today.
The news channels always go bonkers when someone famous dies. I remember turning on the BBC news a week after Michael Jackson died. The big news of the day was that he was still dead.
To be fair to Ali, he probably deserves a few tributes. When they were voting for Sports personality of the century, I was thinking Don Bradman, Pele .... anyone from athletics? Then I discovered it was Ali. I thought "Yeah, yeah, that's right."
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
Last year Ireland grew 9.2%, UK 2%, EZ 1.5%.
While EZ countries have largely resolved their deficits, we have not. Just hope nothing happens that would be an economic storm while the roof remains unfixed...
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
Last year Ireland grew 9.2%, UK 2%, EZ 1.5%.
While EZ countries have largely resolved their deficits, we have not. Just hope nothing happens that would be an economic storm while the roof remains unfixed...
OK, I clearly misunderstood your post where you said "About the same"! (as in about 4 times, not about the same rate)
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
It also grew at around 4 times the EZ rate !!!!!!
If EZ was 1.5%, UK was 2% and Eire was 4xUK then that would be 8% for Eire or 5.33x EZ rate.
The news channels always go bonkers when someone famous dies. I remember turning on the BBC news a week after Michael Jackson died. The big news of the day was that he was still dead.
To be fair to Ali, he probably deserves a few tributes. When they were voting for Sports personality of the century, I was thinking Don Bradman, Pele .... anyone from athletics? Then I discovered it was Ali. I thought "Yeah, yeah, that's right."
"“All Jews and gentiles are devils… Blacks are no devils… Everything black people doing wrong comes from (the white people): Drinking, smoking, prostitution, homosexuality, stealing, gambling: It all comes from (the white people)”
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
It also grew at around 4 times the EZ rate !!!!!!
If EZ was 1.5%, UK was 2% and Eire was 4xUK then that would be 8% for Eire or 5.33x EZ rate.
MarkSenior is a LD, right? So I guess all those dodgy winning here bar chart productions have influenced his maths...
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
It also grew at around 4 times the EZ rate !!!!!!
If EZ was 1.5%, UK was 2% and Eire was 4xUK then that would be 8% for Eire or 5.33x EZ rate.
Figures were approximate , Irish GDP actually grew by 9.2% in 2015
The news channels always go bonkers when someone famous dies. I remember turning on the BBC news a week after Michael Jackson died. The big news of the day was that he was still dead.
To be fair to Ali, he probably deserves a few tributes. When they were voting for Sports personality of the century, I was thinking Don Bradman, Pele .... anyone from athletics? Then I discovered it was Ali. I thought "Yeah, yeah, that's right."
"“All Jews and gentiles are devils… Blacks are no devils… Everything black people doing wrong comes from (the white people): Drinking, smoking, prostitution, homosexuality, stealing, gambling: It all comes from (the white people)”
Muhammed Ali
Ali was also ahead of the curve in converting to Islam, albeit in the curious Nation of Islam form. He saw it as an assertion of african identity over a slavery imposed Christianity. It was in keeping with the black consciousness and anti-colonialism of the time, some related ideas to rastafarianism.
The news channels always go bonkers when someone famous dies. I remember turning on the BBC news a week after Michael Jackson died. The big news of the day was that he was still dead.
To be fair to Ali, he probably deserves a few tributes. When they were voting for Sports personality of the century, I was thinking Don Bradman, Pele .... anyone from athletics? Then I discovered it was Ali. I thought "Yeah, yeah, that's right."
"“All Jews and gentiles are devils… Blacks are no devils… Everything black people doing wrong comes from (the white people): Drinking, smoking, prostitution, homosexuality, stealing, gambling: It all comes from (the white people)”
Muhammed Ali
Ali was also ahead of the curve in converting to Islam, albeit in the curious Nation of Islam form. He saw it as an assertion of african identity over a slavery imposed Christianity. It was in keeping with the black consciousness and anti-colonialism of the time, some related ideas to rastafarianism.
I am not sure I would describe the Nation of Islam as "curious". On top of the anti-Semitic and hate stuff, these days Farrakhan is peddling Dianetics.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
Last year Ireland grew 9.2%, UK 2%, EZ 1.5%.
While EZ countries have largely resolved their deficits, we have not. Just hope nothing happens that would be an economic storm while the roof remains unfixed...
So that means Eire was over 6x EZ growth.
More in fact as a realistic comparison between Eire and the rest of the Eurozone should exclude Ireland from the EZ (Eire is dragging up EZ currently) and if you exclude Ireland the EZ growth would be lower. Ireland is more realistically growing at upto about 7 times the rest of the Eurozone collectively.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
Last year Ireland grew 9.2%, UK 2%, EZ 1.5%.
While EZ countries have largely resolved their deficits, we have not. Just hope nothing happens that would be an economic storm while the roof remains unfixed...
Ireland's growth is primarily going to pay its creditors. Ordinary people are not the main beneficiaries.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
Last year Ireland grew 9.2%, UK 2%, EZ 1.5%.
While EZ countries have largely resolved their deficits, we have not. Just hope nothing happens that would be an economic storm while the roof remains unfixed...
So that means Eire was over 6x EZ growth.
More in fact as a realistic comparison between Eire and the rest of the Eurozone should exclude Ireland from the EZ (Eire is dragging up EZ currently) and if you exclude Ireland the EZ growth would be lower. Ireland is more realistically growing at upto about 7 times the rest of the Eurozone collectively.
If growth were calculated per capita it probably doesn't make too much of a difference.
Looks like it was 7.8%, but perhaps that's been revised up?
Shows the benefit of being in the EU and being able to attract US investment
Shows the benefit of running a lower tax, lower spend economy. Which the EU wants to stymie by attempting to force Ireland to increase its corporation tax rate.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
It also grew at around 4 times the EZ rate !!!!!!
If EZ was 1.5%, UK was 2% and Eire was 4xUK then that would be 8% for Eire or 5.33x EZ rate.
Figures were approximate , Irish GDP actually grew by 9.2% in 2015
Cumulative real growth in Ireland since 1990 is higher than Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, India, South Korea, Australia and the US.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
It also grew at around 4 times the EZ rate !!!!!!
If EZ was 1.5%, UK was 2% and Eire was 4xUK then that would be 8% for Eire or 5.33x EZ rate.
Figures were approximate , Irish GDP actually grew by 9.2% in 2015
My point was that given the UK growth is significantly above EZ growth, any multiple of UK growth must be higher as a multiple of EZ growth.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
It also grew at around 4 times the EZ rate !!!!!!
If EZ was 1.5%, UK was 2% and Eire was 4xUK then that would be 8% for Eire or 5.33x EZ rate.
Figures were approximate , Irish GDP actually grew by 9.2% in 2015
Cumulative real growth in Ireland since 1990 is higher than Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, India, South Korea, Australia and the US.
I doubt they'll be following us out.
Exactly , Off to play a Team Online Bridge Match now .
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
It also grew at around 4 times the EZ rate !!!!!!
If EZ was 1.5%, UK was 2% and Eire was 4xUK then that would be 8% for Eire or 5.33x EZ rate.
Figures were approximate , Irish GDP actually grew by 9.2% in 2015
Cumulative real growth in Ireland since 1990 is higher than Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, India, South Korea, Australia and the US.
I doubt they'll be following us out.
Growth happening despite the EU not because of it. If France and others got their way into bullying Ireland into raising their corporation tax rates they could say goodbye to that growth.
Ta - always helps if everyone is looking at the same dataset.
Clicking on the tabs in the lower section is quite interesting, some quite strong growth in parts of Africa and Asia, and also many parts of Europe. Turkey up 5.7% for instance, Sweden at 4.2% and most of the Eastern European countries growing well.
The news channels always go bonkers when someone famous dies. I remember turning on the BBC news a week after Michael Jackson died. The big news of the day was that he was still dead.
To be fair to Ali, he probably deserves a few tributes. When they were voting for Sports personality of the century, I was thinking Don Bradman, Pele .... anyone from athletics? Then I discovered it was Ali. I thought "Yeah, yeah, that's right."
"“All Jews and gentiles are devils… Blacks are no devils… Everything black people doing wrong comes from (the white people): Drinking, smoking, prostitution, homosexuality, stealing, gambling: It all comes from (the white people)”
Muhammed Ali
Ali was also ahead of the curve in converting to Islam, albeit in the curious Nation of Islam form. He saw it as an assertion of african identity over a slavery imposed Christianity. It was in keeping with the black consciousness and anti-colonialism of the time, some related ideas to rastafarianism.
The news channels always go bonkers when someone famous dies. I remember turning on the BBC news a week after Michael Jackson died. The big news of the day was that he was still dead.
To be fair to Ali, he probably deserves a few tributes. When they were voting for Sports personality of the century, I was thinking Don Bradman, Pele .... anyone from athletics? Then I discovered it was Ali. I thought "Yeah, yeah, that's right."
"“All Jews and gentiles are devils… Blacks are no devils… Everything black people doing wrong comes from (the white people): Drinking, smoking, prostitution, homosexuality, stealing, gambling: It all comes from (the white people)”
Muhammed Ali
Ali was also ahead of the curve in converting to Islam, albeit in the curious Nation of Islam form. He saw it as an assertion of african identity over a slavery imposed Christianity. It was in keeping with the black consciousness and anti-colonialism of the time, some related ideas to rastafarianism.
ISTR a boxing commentator (Harry Carpenter?) doing a really perceptive interview with Muhammed Ali.
Looks like it was 7.8%, but perhaps that's been revised up?
Shows the benefit of being in the EU and being able to attract US investment
Shows the benefit of running a lower tax, lower spend economy. Which the EU wants to stymie by attempting to force Ireland to increase its corporation tax rate.
Ah, the benefits of getting multinationals to claim that their profits are in your country rather than where their customers are.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
Last year Ireland grew 9.2%, UK 2%, EZ 1.5%.
While EZ countries have largely resolved their deficits, we have not. Just hope nothing happens that would be an economic storm while the roof remains unfixed...
So that means Eire was over 6x EZ growth.
More in fact as a realistic comparison between Eire and the rest of the Eurozone should exclude Ireland from the EZ (Eire is dragging up EZ currently) and if you exclude Ireland the EZ growth would be lower. Ireland is more realistically growing at upto about 7 times the rest of the Eurozone collectively.
If growth were calculated per capita it probably doesn't make too much of a difference.
If growth was adjusted to percapita then the difference between EZ and EU rates would shrink further.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
Last year Ireland grew 9.2%, UK 2%, EZ 1.5%.
While EZ countries have largely resolved their deficits, we have not. Just hope nothing happens that would be an economic storm while the roof remains unfixed...
Really? I knwo Greece has a current account surplus but is still in EU imposed deficit. Which countries are now in budget surplus in the Eurozone (apart from Germany which has been for a while)
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
It also grew at around 4 times the EZ rate !!!!!!
If EZ was 1.5%, UK was 2% and Eire was 4xUK then that would be 8% for Eire or 5.33x EZ rate.
Figures were approximate , Irish GDP actually grew by 9.2% in 2015
Cumulative real growth in Ireland since 1990 is higher than Singapore, Hong Kong, Taiwan, India, South Korea, Australia and the US.
I doubt they'll be following us out.
Exactly , Off to play a Team Online Bridge Match now .
Good luck. Don't revoke, don't lead from the wrong hand, don't fail to raise your partner's suit. Don't bid no trumps..... (TIC)
The news channels always go bonkers when someone famous dies. I remember turning on the BBC news a week after Michael Jackson died. The big news of the day was that he was still dead.
To be fair to Ali, he probably deserves a few tributes. When they were voting for Sports personality of the century, I was thinking Don Bradman, Pele .... anyone from athletics? Then I discovered it was Ali. I thought "Yeah, yeah, that's right."
"“All Jews and gentiles are devils… Blacks are no devils… Everything black people doing wrong comes from (the white people): Drinking, smoking, prostitution, homosexuality, stealing, gambling: It all comes from (the white people)”
Muhammed Ali
Ali was also ahead of the curve in converting to Islam, albeit in the curious Nation of Islam form. He saw it as an assertion of african identity over a slavery imposed Christianity. It was in keeping with the black consciousness and anti-colonialism of the time, some related ideas to rastafarianism.
I am just interested in the history of ideas. The history of Pan-Africanism and some of the alternative views of the world in the anti-colonial literature are quite challenging. I would argue that Islam is highly colonialist in practice, extinguishing other cultures wherever it gains control. The early liberation movements in Africa and Middle East were very aware of this, not wanting to replace one sort of Colonial oppression with another form. Nearly all the anti-colonial leaders were fairly secular in practice, even people like Jinnah.
Looks like it was 7.8%, but perhaps that's been revised up?
Shows the benefit of being in the EU and being able to attract US investment
Shows the benefit of running a lower tax, lower spend economy. Which the EU wants to stymie by attempting to force Ireland to increase its corporation tax rate.
Is that not because they are in the Euro-Zone? The UK of course is not
You know things must be getting desperate for remain when they have to wheel out windbag kinnock to try and reach labour voters. The man who lost an election twice
After pleading to pensioners in SAGA magazine and threaten WW3, we'll never host the Olympics or WCup again...I'm not sure what's left for Remain.
Santa will be barred from visiting the UK on Xmas eve?
Won't get enough points Ison the new visa scheme.
Isn't Santa Turkish?
St George was Syrian
Probably. The fact he is still patron Saint of England is, in my view, a disgrace. He was foisted to us by the Norman clique that held sway after the conquest.
We should go back to St Edmund, a proper English saint and whilst about it we could dump the white duster of his flag and re-introduce England's proper flag - the White Dragon.
I would far prefer St Sir Thomas More (one of Gove's predecessors as Lord High Chancellor).
A patron saint who would I'm sure have been a poster here were he alive now.
Given what happened to my ancestor I am inclined to agree with Melvin Bragg:
"Thomas More, who was so vile and excrementally vivid that it is difficult to read him even today.
He would have found it difficult to outdo some of the Bile and Meldrewism being exhibited by some of the remainers here today.
The news channels always go bonkers when someone famous dies. I remember turning on the BBC news a week after Michael Jackson died. The big news of the day was that he was still dead.
To be fair to Ali, he probably deserves a few tributes. When they were voting for Sports personality of the century, I was thinking Don Bradman, Pele .... anyone from athletics? Then I discovered it was Ali. I thought "Yeah, yeah, that's right."
"“All Jews and gentiles are devils… Blacks are no devils… Everything black people doing wrong comes from (the white people): Drinking, smoking, prostitution, homosexuality, stealing, gambling: It all comes from (the white people)”
Muhammed Ali
Ali was also ahead of the curve in converting to Islam, albeit in the curious Nation of Islam form. He saw it as an assertion of african identity over a slavery imposed Christianity. It was in keeping with the black consciousness and anti-colonialism of the time, some related ideas to rastafarianism.
Rastafarianism is very different. They revere Ethiopia, which considers itself the oldest Christian State in the World. Under the monarchy it was like Byzantium surviving into the modern world, except the Emperors, Empresses, nobles and knights were black.
Sensible enough, what are friends for (especially friends with 7%+ growth rates )
It was quite commercial - we borrowed @ 2% and loaned the money @ 5%.
(FWIW - George Osborne/ Bank of England has been refinancing a lot of debt at a lower interest rate - hence the end of War Loan 3.5%. The worry is that some of it may be index linked - so if inflation takes off....)
The news channels always go bonkers when someone famous dies. I remember turning on the BBC news a week after Michael Jackson died. The big news of the day was that he was still dead.
To be fair to Ali, he probably deserves a few tributes. When they were voting for Sports personality of the century, I was thinking Don Bradman, Pele .... anyone from athletics? Then I discovered it was Ali. I thought "Yeah, yeah, that's right."
"“All Jews and gentiles are devils… Blacks are no devils… Everything black people doing wrong comes from (the white people): Drinking, smoking, prostitution, homosexuality, stealing, gambling: It all comes from (the white people)”
Muhammed Ali
Swap white people for Brexiters and you have this place today
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
Last year Ireland grew 9.2%, UK 2%, EZ 1.5%.
While EZ countries have largely resolved their deficits, we have not. Just hope nothing happens that would be an economic storm while the roof remains unfixed...
Really? I knwo Greece has a current account surplus but is still in EU imposed deficit. Which countries are now in budget surplus in the Eurozone (apart from Germany which has been for a while)
Germany is running a slight surplus, the EZ has a manageable deficit of -2.1% while the UK is still at -4.4%. I think only Spain and Greece are worse deficits than us.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
Last year Ireland grew 9.2%, UK 2%, EZ 1.5%.
While EZ countries have largely resolved their deficits, we have not. Just hope nothing happens that would be an economic storm while the roof remains unfixed...
Really? I knwo Greece has a current account surplus but is still in EU imposed deficit. Which countries are now in budget surplus in the Eurozone (apart from Germany which has been for a while)
Germany is running a slight surplus, the EZ has a manageable deficit of -2.1% while the UK is still at -4.4%. I think only Spain and Greece are worse deficits than us.
Does anyone agree with me that Sky and BBC are possessed with the death of Muhammad Ali. All day both have a 'breaking news' strap line of his death even though it was announced early this morning. As I dip into the news during the day it is all I am getting, wall to wall coverage. In my opinion it is a complete fail of their role to provide news
In general I think the media always go overboard with the death of anyone well-known - they have massive material in stock ready for anyone famous dying, and simply wheel it out. An additional factor at the moment may be that they feel that the public is fed up with referendum stuff - hell, even we nerds are struggling a bit.
When my Mum was a teenager she went on a school trip around the Times. They proceeded to pull a fully drafted obit of her Dad out of drawer. A very odd experience! (He lasted another 35 years...)
Yet Leavers are enthusiastic about risking an economic shock, even though we're still running a large deficit. One wonders how they think the widening deficit would be filled, given how hard it has proved so far.
Sound money goes out the window if it gets in the way of manically held beliefs.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
Last year Ireland grew 9.2%, UK 2%, EZ 1.5%.
While EZ countries have largely resolved their deficits, we have not. Just hope nothing happens that would be an economic storm while the roof remains unfixed...
Ireland's growth is primarily going to pay its creditors. Ordinary people are not the main beneficiaries.
Funny to think that NI is free while RoI spilled so much blood just to replace landowners abroad extorting rent with bankers abroad extorting rent. I dont think it will be too many years after Brexit thst the penny will drop
"Remain" has a knife-edge lead as Britain enters the final three weeks of the campaign.
In the referendum, 43% plan to vote to remain in the EU vs. 41% who plan to vote to leave.
However, these results mask a larger swing to Leave due to this being the first poll to incorporate weighting based on social attitudes. In previous surveys we have found that the answers to a number of questions on issues such as efforts to reduce discrimination against ethnic minorities or whether respondents felt more English or British produced results that were significantly more socially conservative than comparative polls or academic studies. Without these changes, our results would have shown a slight lead for Leave instead of for Remain.
A fuller explanation of these changes and the effect they have will be posted on Monday.
The move towards Leave can also be seen in our "nudge" question which asks undecided respondents whether they lean one way or another.
In our last poll, 47% leaned towards Remaining while 32% leaned the other way. In this latest poll, undecideds are nearly evenly split with 36% leaning towards staying in the EU and 33% towards Leave.
@MattSingh_: Opinium/Observer poll has a new methodology, including attitudinal weights (without which it would show Leave ahead) https://t.co/lTXGLC0ASo
Does anyone agree with me that Sky and BBC are possessed with the death of Muhammad Ali. All day both have a 'breaking news' strap line of his death even though it was announced early this morning. As I dip into the news during the day it is all I am getting, wall to wall coverage. In my opinion it is a complete fail of their role to provide news
In general I think the media always go overboard with the death of anyone well-known - they have massive material in stock ready for anyone famous dying, and simply wheel it out. An additional factor at the moment may be that they feel that the public is fed up with referendum stuff - hell, even we nerds are struggling a bit.
When my Mum was a teenager she went on a school trip around the Times. They proceeded to pull a fully drafted obit of her Dad out of drawer. A very odd experience! (He lasted another 35 years...)
I fully understand the obituary stuff, the only buy it that bothers me is the stretched definition of Breaking News. Something that happened 16 hours ago isn't breaking news, a story happening now with information coming in is breaking news.
@MattSingh_: Opinium/Observer poll has a new methodology, including attitudinal weights (without which it would show Leave ahead) https://t.co/lTXGLC0ASo
Attitudinal weights? Is that how the pollster is feeling at any particular time?
Does anyone agree with me that Sky and BBC are possessed with the death of Muhammad Ali. All day both have a 'breaking news' strap line of his death even though it was announced early this morning. As I dip into the news during the day it is all I am getting, wall to wall coverage. In my opinion it is a complete fail of their role to provide news
In general I think the media always go overboard with the death of anyone well-known - they have massive material in stock ready for anyone famous dying, and simply wheel it out. An additional factor at the moment may be that they feel that the public is fed up with referendum stuff - hell, even we nerds are struggling a bit.
When my Mum was a teenager she went on a school trip around the Times. They proceeded to pull a fully drafted obit of her Dad out of drawer. A very odd experience! (He lasted another 35 years...)
Crikey ..... your maternal grandfather must have been very distinguished indeed. I thought they only prepared such far in advance obits for Royalty and very, very senior politicians, statesmen, scientists, writers and suchlike. Do you think they might already have yours ready?
@MattSingh_: Opinium/Observer poll has a new methodology, including attitudinal weights (without which it would show Leave ahead) https://t.co/lTXGLC0ASo
The news channels always go bonkers when someone famous dies. I remember turning on the BBC news a week after Michael Jackson died. The big news of the day was that he was still dead.
To be fair to Ali, he probably deserves a few tributes. When they were voting for Sports personality of the century, I was thinking Don Bradman, Pele .... anyone from athletics? Then I discovered it was Ali. I thought "Yeah, yeah, that's right."
"“All Jews and gentiles are devils… Blacks are no devils… Everything black people doing wrong comes from (the white people): Drinking, smoking, prostitution, homosexuality, stealing, gambling: It all comes from (the white people)”
Muhammed Ali
Ali was also ahead of the curve in converting to Islam, albeit in the curious Nation of Islam form. He saw it as an assertion of african identity over a slavery imposed Christianity. It was in keeping with the black consciousness and anti-colonialism of the time, some related ideas to rastafarianism.
Rastafarianism is very different. They revere Ethiopia, which considers itself the oldest Christian State in the World. Under the monarchy it was like Byzantium surviving into the modern world, except the Emperors, Empresses, nobles and knights were black.
Rastafarianism is indeed very different, but both Nation of Islam and Rastafarianism are africanist inspired movements with common roots in the Western Hemisphere african diaspora. Both appeal to the idea of expropriation of a peoples history by white slavers. Similar ideas are behind the Zion Christian Church in South Africa.
I rather like rastafarianism with its rather wistful desire for exile to end. The music is better too.
Yet Leavers are enthusiastic about risking an economic shock, even though we're still running a large deficit. One wonders how they think the widening deficit would be filled, given how hard it has proved so far.
Sound money goes out the window if it gets in the way of manically held beliefs.
Faster growth and billions less in EU contributions combine to a great opportunity.
Yet Leavers are enthusiastic about risking an economic shock, even though we're still running a large deficit. One wonders how they think the widening deficit would be filled, given how hard it has proved so far.
Sound money goes out the window if it gets in the way of manically held beliefs.
The phrase "economic shock" was the treasury one. We may have an economic shock, but liberalisation of business from stifling EU conditions will soon recover it.
If we do leave the EU, I'll be interested in how we deal with Ireland. It's very hard to imagine reinstating border crossings in Ireland so I assume that we'll need passport controls for people coming from Belfast. one struggles to imagine Ulster saying yes to that.
If we leave, I imagine Ireland will shortly after.
That is pure wishful thinking on your part . The Irish GDP grew at 4 times the UK rate last year and they see themselves as very much part of Europe .
How much times the EU rate?
About the same the EZ grew 1.5% last year compared to 2% for the UK. In the last quarter Germany France and Spain all outgrew us. When you allow for the continued "economic stimulus" from our deficit there is little to choose between our growth and the EZ.
So how did Ireland grow at 4 times the UK rate, if it also grew at the same rate as the EZ?
Last year Ireland grew 9.2%, UK 2%, EZ 1.5%.
While EZ countries have largely resolved their deficits, we have not. Just hope nothing happens that would be an economic storm while the roof remains unfixed...
Really? I knwo Greece has a current account surplus but is still in EU imposed deficit. Which countries are now in budget surplus in the Eurozone (apart from Germany which has been for a while)
Germany is running a slight surplus, the EZ has a manageable deficit of -2.1% while the UK is still at -4.4%. I think only Spain and Greece are worse deficits than us.
@MattSingh_: Opinium/Observer poll has a new methodology, including attitudinal weights (without which it would show Leave ahead) https://t.co/lTXGLC0ASo
Attitudinal weights? Is that how the pollster is feeling at any particular time?
Its respondents in the past have been more socially conservative than [the respondents? the population? BE SPECIFIC!] in other poll/studies. So they attempt to make their sample more representative [of whatever] by down-weighting responses from said folks. Whether this approach is accurate will not be known until the result.
Yet Leavers are enthusiastic about risking an economic shock, even though we're still running a large deficit. One wonders how they think the widening deficit would be filled, given how hard it has proved so far.
Sound money goes out the window if it gets in the way of manically held beliefs.
Short answer is to forge trade links with areas of the world which are growing.
It is better than the alternative of potentially being on the hook to bail of Italy.
Yet Leavers are enthusiastic about risking an economic shock, even though we're still running a large deficit. One wonders how they think the widening deficit would be filled, given how hard it has proved so far.
Sound money goes out the window if it gets in the way of manically held beliefs.
Faster growth and billions less in EU contributions combine to a great opportunity.
Even most Leavers accept that there will be a short term economic shock in the event of a Leave vote. If so, that will inevitably lead to the deficit widening and the national debt surging, long before any benefit from the Govenomics that only diehards believe in kick in.
Looks like it was 7.8%, but perhaps that's been revised up?
Shows the benefit of being in the EU and being able to attract US investment
Shows the benefit of running a lower tax, lower spend economy. Which the EU wants to stymie by attempting to force Ireland to increase its corporation tax rate.
Is that not because they are in the Euro-Zone? The UK of course is not
You think that Ireland is growing six to seven times faster than the rest of the Eurozone ... and that the UK is growing a third faster than the whole of the Eurozone because of the Eurozone? Interesting logic.
Comments
An Amazing guy, I thought he really was "The Greatest"
Did you ever see his fights, or stay up to listen in the early hours of the morning like I did.??. Not particularly a boxing fan, but I was a big fan of Muhammad Ali .
On a serious note. A couple weeks back I did rate Leave in Gilmour terms. We seem to be doing much better though... Still think we'll lose but but am encouraged.
Those that know. What should Hull / East Yorkshire be if its 50/50? I'd guess 55-45 Leave EY 45/55 Hull?
Labour could well win that one, certainly not a nailed on victory for the baby eaters.
However false states always fall apart, the question isn't if, but when, and how many people die as a result.
For those reasons I am out.
A patron saint who would I'm sure have been a poster here were he alive now.
Not a nice chap.
http://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.2221233!/image/image.png_gen/derivatives/landscape_620/image.png
Prey, if the EU was stupid enough to put in tariffs (which I doubt, to be fair), how would Ireland cope? Answer would be to leave the EU.
Us Conservatives don't eat babies either.
Post Brexit Tory manifesto would likely be focused on bureaucratic deregulation for small businesses, cutting of VAT rates for some pretty significant items and, er, you know, the striking of trade deals with a whole new world of opportunities.
You obviously like to think us Tories dislike workers: on the contrary, we'd rather our governments governed for everyone. One Nation and all that. Sadly our current leadership seem to have forgotten this.
A real star, and a very visible reminder of how being punched repeatedly on the head is not good for your brain.
The bullet holes in the facade of the GPO on O'Connell Street are still plain to see.
"Thomas More, who was so vile and excrementally vivid that it is difficult to read him even today.
To be fair to Ali, he probably deserves a few tributes. When they were voting for Sports personality of the century, I was thinking Don Bradman, Pele .... anyone from athletics? Then I discovered it was Ali. I thought "Yeah, yeah, that's right."
While EZ countries have largely resolved their deficits, we have not. Just hope nothing happens that would be an economic storm while the roof remains unfixed...
Muhammed Ali
Looks like it was 7.8%, but perhaps that's been revised up?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loans_to_Ireland_Act_2010
More in fact as a realistic comparison between Eire and the rest of the Eurozone should exclude Ireland from the EZ (Eire is dragging up EZ currently) and if you exclude Ireland the EZ growth would be lower. Ireland is more realistically growing at upto about 7 times the rest of the Eurozone collectively.
I doubt they'll be following us out.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade
Meanwhile, we are being told immigration is a pre-requisite for growth.
I am just interested in the history of ideas. The history of Pan-Africanism and some of the alternative views of the world in the anti-colonial literature are quite challenging. I would argue that Islam is highly colonialist in practice, extinguishing other cultures wherever it gains control. The early liberation movements in Africa and Middle East were very aware of this, not wanting to replace one sort of Colonial oppression with another form. Nearly all the anti-colonial leaders were fairly secular in practice, even people like Jinnah.
(FWIW - George Osborne/ Bank of England has been refinancing a lot of debt at a lower interest rate - hence the end of War Loan 3.5%. The worry is that some of it may be index linked - so if inflation takes off....)
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/country-list/government-budget
A long way from everything under control then.
CON 34 (-1)
LAB 30 (=)
LD 6 (+1)
UKIP 18 (=)
GRN 4 (-1)
SNP 6 (=)
31st May-3rd Jun
N=2,007
Tabs https://t.co/c52VWd3kSu
REMAIN 43 (-1)
LEAVE 41 (+1)
METHODOLOGY CHANGES APPLY
31 May-3rd Jun
N=2,007
https://t.co/WNHq01YAvf #Brexit
Sound money goes out the window if it gets in the way of manically held beliefs.
Remain 43 (-1)
Leave 41 (+1)
Fieldwork 31/5 to 3/6
"Remain" has a knife-edge lead as Britain enters the final three weeks of the campaign.
In the referendum, 43% plan to vote to remain in the EU vs. 41% who plan to vote to leave.
However, these results mask a larger swing to Leave due to this being the first poll to incorporate weighting based on social attitudes. In previous surveys we have found that the answers to a number of questions on issues such as efforts to reduce discrimination against ethnic minorities or whether respondents felt more English or British produced results that were significantly more socially conservative than comparative polls or academic studies. Without these changes, our results would have shown a slight lead for Leave instead of for Remain.
A fuller explanation of these changes and the effect they have will be posted on Monday.
The move towards Leave can also be seen in our "nudge" question which asks undecided respondents whether they lean one way or another.
In our last poll, 47% leaned towards Remaining while 32% leaned the other way. In this latest poll, undecideds are nearly evenly split with 36% leaning towards staying in the EU and 33% towards Leave.
http://ourinsight.opinium.co.uk/survey-results/political-polling-31st-may-2016
I rather like rastafarianism with its rather wistful desire for exile to end. The music is better too.
Remain 795
Leave 897
liberalisation of business from stifling EU conditions
These 2 statements are contradictory
It is better than the alternative of potentially being on the hook to bail of Italy.