politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » Remain appear to be winning the ground game but looks like
Comments
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Yes, I live in the Kingdom of Mercia, but don't mind people from Wessex living here.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.
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If we left the EU, Ireland might too....williamglenn said:
You didn't answer my earlier question about your view on partition. Would you like to reverse it?Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Thats irrelevant as treaties going back to partition make us honorsry citizens of each others states with all the rights that go with it.williamglenn said:
So you'd support an automatic right to settle in Belfast, but not in Dublin?Sean_F said:
That's it. To me, they are other countries, with different traditions and interests, and I fail to see why I should have an automatic right to settle in them.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.
Thats why RoI citizens get to vote in the referendum if resident here0 -
No, he is saying we like a steak. And I do.RobD said:
Are you saying we are all fat bastards?Alistair said:
That .1 hectare figure is making assumptions about good water management, no soil erosion and no food waste.RobD said:
With ~17 million hectares of arable land, that corresponds to a maximum population of 170 million!Alistair said:
What kind of diet do you want. 0.1 hectares per person for a nutritious but entirely vegetarian diet.Cyclefree said:
I thought we'd passed that point long ago......Paul_Bedfordshire said:
I would say we were at the population limit when the British Isles is no longer capable of food self sufficiency.Cyclefree said:AlastairMeeks said:I see the idea that Remain supporters can't have principles is re-emerging onthread.
For our current diet it's 0.5 hectares.
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Those embarrassing crappy jobs we all do when we were younger eh...Roger said:
i was younger then!FrancisUrquhart said:
I am sure I read somewhere you had had a successful career in advertising...shooting yoghurt adverts with Cheryl Baker is certainly an interesting definition of success.Roger said:
I'm surprised they're still going. I used Cheryl on a Yogurt ad years ago. She had to put a spoon in her mouth pull it out and say "it's so rich and creamy" It was supposed to be sexy but watching this creamy stuff inside her mouth when she delivered her her line made it look like something altogether more sinister. But It made for a funny shoot.Casino_Royale said:
They will be pushing that line that there comes a time for making your mind up.TheScreamingEagles said:OMG The Brexit Concert have got most of Bucks Fizz performing at their gig.
And they've done a Gordon Brown, and hired an Elvis impersonator as well.
https://twitter.com/asabenn/status/738066991018311681
I am just pulling your leg btw.0 -
Brits have all the language skills they'll need. English simply is now the default language.Cookie said:
Most of us don't have the language skills to exercise such a right.
I don't know quite how they've done it but French-persons worldwide seem to accept this and at the same time have a secret smile amongst themselves
Perhaps it's because English is undoubtedly now the 'common' tongue.
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But we have recently spent several equally boring months being told that Scotland, which wishes to remain part of the EU, is indeed another country.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.0 -
Obviously. Belfast is part of the UK. Dublin isn't. I would have no problem in principle if the Irish government chose to impose immigration controls on British citizens.williamglenn said:
So you'd support an automatic right to settle in Belfast, but not in Dublin?Sean_F said:
That's it. To me, they are other countries, with different traditions and interests, and I fail to see why I should have an automatic right to settle in them.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.
But, I can see why neither government would wish to do so, in view of the 1998 agreement.0 -
I have been wondering whether it is best to insure against a BREXIT by placing a bet or buying currency. Here's the math.
Firstly, let's throw away the online options. Most people will bet in a betting shop or trade currency in a bureau de change, and these things have costs. At about noon today the options for GBP-USD were:
* Eurochange's buy/sell for GBP->USD is buy at 1.42, sell at 1.54, midpoint 1.48[1].
* Ladbrokes Remain/Leave odds are 3/10 vs 5/2[2]
I'll assume GBP on LEAVE drops to $1.2 (buy 1.14, sell 1.26) and rises to 1.5 (buy 1.44, sell 1.56) on REMAIN. So let's go thru each case.
CASE 1: £1000 CURRENCY
Our cautious consumer takes £1000 and buys dollars from Eurochange, getting 1000*1.42 = $1,420. If he has buyer's remorse he can immediately change back but he would get 1420/1.54 = £922, an immediate loss of £78. So he waits. On a LEAVE vote GBP dives to $1.2. He converts his $1420 dollars back to GBP, which gives him 1420/1.26 = £1127, a profit of £127. Conversely if REMAIN, GBP rises to £1.5, he converts back so 1420/1.56 = £910, a loss of £90
CASE 2: £1000 BETTING
Our more adventurous consumer takes £1000 and bets on LEAVE@5/2. On a LEAVE vote he recieves £2500 plus his stake, a return of £3500. On a REMAIN vote he recieves nothing
So the summary is:
* CASE 1: CURRENCY: £922 (buyer's remorse), $1127 (LEAVE wins), $910 (LEAVE loses)
* CASE 2: BETTING : £000 (buyer's remorse), $3500 (LEAVE wins), $000 (LEAVE loses)
So currency conversion gives little reassurance but large risk, betting gives great reassurance but large risk. In conclusion, if you are sorely troubled by LEAVE you should bet not convert, but if only moderately troubled currency conversion seems good
Notes
* [1] Yes, really. I think there's a delay. I thought they update their rates instantaneously but apparently not.
* [2] 0.77 vs 0.29, an overround of 1.06-1 = 6%. Isn't that low for a political betting market? I'll take that to assume liquidity is increasing0 -
Well that is a little like noting that accountants aren't free to work as doctors. Naturally if you do not have a skill, you will not achieve a job. However, in so far as international employment in the EU is concerned, of course the desire to recruit English-speakers gives UK applicants a huge advantage in skilled fields.welshowl said:
Quite and one of the deep problems of the Euro. It's all well and good having the right to work in Italy, and you might be a highly qualified lawyer, accountant actor or whatever but if you can't speak Italian that right is severely limited in practice. There isn't the real free movement of labour as between Sussex and Dundee, Chicago and Alabama or Stuttgart and Leipzig.Cookie said:
But a pretty impractical one. Most of us don't have the language skills to exercise such a right. It would be far more useful for far more people to have the right to live and work in Australia, Canada, and New Zealand - and I think we would be fairly happy for those rights to be reciprocal. The right to go and work in France or Italy or Romania isn't really much use to many beyond a small minority. I don't want to dismiss this out of hand, but I don't think many people can get too excited by it.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.
There isn't a European "polis" despite decades of trying to will one into existence by creating Euro parliaments, passports, currencies, or regional development funds.0 -
OT. If anyone wants a good reason to be keep Europe as close to our collective bosom as we can watch 'Francesco's Venice'.
Then consider that we can go there to work or live as easily as we can Grimsby.
(PS BBC at its very best)0 -
Yes but you dug a bloody dike to keep me out.Bromptonaut said:
Yes, I live in the Kingdom of Mercia, but don't mind people from Wessex living here.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.0 -
Yesterday the possibility was mentioned of the EU as-is collapsing and being rebuilt afresh. Perhaps one great improvement of the next attempt will be to adopt English as the single working language.welshowl said:
Quite and one of the deep problems of the Euro. It's all well and good having the right to work in Italy, and you might be a highly qualified lawyer, accountant actor or whatever but if you can't speak Italian that right is severely limited in practice. There isn't the real free movement of labour as between Sussex and Dundee, Chicago and Alabama or Stuttgart and Leipzig.Cookie said:
But a pretty impractical one. Most of us don't have the language skills to exercise such a right. It would be far more useful for far more people to have the right to live and work in Australia, Canada, and New Zealand - and I think we would be fairly happy for those rights to be reciprocal. The right to go and work in France or Italy or Romania isn't really much use to many beyond a small minority. I don't want to dismiss this out of hand, but I don't think many people can get too excited by it.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.
There isn't a European "polis" despite decades of trying to will one into existence by creating Euro parliaments, passports, currencies, or regional development funds.0 -
It's The Wonder, The Wonder of EU......TheScreamingEagles said:OMG The Brexit Concert have got most of Bucks Fizz performing at their gig.
And they've done a Gordon Brown, and hired an Elvis impersonator as well.
https://twitter.com/asabenn/status/738066991018311681
Ladies and gentlemen, Britain...has left the building.0 -
1) Did you know there is a fish dock tower thing in Grimsby modelled on Venice? (You can look up the details yourself; I cant be bothered, its nearly tea time).Roger said:OT. If anyone wants a good reason to be keep Europe as close to our collective bosom as we can watch 'Francesco's Venice'.
Then consider that we can go there to work or live as easily as we can Grimsby.
(PS BBC at its very best)
2) Have you ever tried to live and/or work in Venice? It must be the most impractical city in Europe for either. It's astonishing that it still exists; a testament to Venetian bloody-mindedness. The fact that it has basically just been there for the tourists for probably the last 300 years or so takes absolutely nothing away from how glorious a place it is.
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You are Owain Glyndwr and I claim my £5.welshowl said:
Yes but you dug a bloody dike to keep me out.Bromptonaut said:
Yes, I live in the Kingdom of Mercia, but don't mind people from Wessex living here.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.
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"But if you wanna cede some more..."chestnut said:
It's The Wonder, The Wonder of EU......TheScreamingEagles said:OMG The Brexit Concert have got most of Bucks Fizz performing at their gig.
And they've done a Gordon Brown, and hired an Elvis impersonator as well.
https://twitter.com/asabenn/status/7380669910183116810 -
Yes it was a disaster. If I could turn back history I would also reverse the union of 1801 which was also a disaster.williamglenn said:
You didn't answer my earlier question about your view on partition. Would you like to reverse it?Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Thats irrelevant as treaties going back to partition make us honorsry citizens of each others states with all the rights that go with it.williamglenn said:
So you'd support an automatic right to settle in Belfast, but not in Dublin?Sean_F said:
That's it. To me, they are other countries, with different traditions and interests, and I fail to see why I should have an automatic right to settle in them.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.
Thats why RoI citizens get to vote in the referendum if resident here
I wuuld much prefer to see a united ireland as a free self governing state as Australia is with the Queen as head of state
Happy now?0 -
Good grief I was kust trying to think of an objective measure that related to population being able to support itself.rcs1000 said:
So, if London declared independence, would that mean the rest of the UK was ready for massive immigrant?Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Not if you include RoI and agricultural productivity increases since WW2Theuniondivvie said:
So that's some time in the 18th century then.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
I would say we were at the population limit when the British Isles is no longer capable of food self sufficiency.Cyclefree said:
You mentioned earlier today that you thought that we were nowhere near the country's population limits, especially given technological advances etc.AlastairMeeks said:I see the idea that Remain supporters can't have principles is re-emerging onthread.
I can see the force of the point you are making but I just wanted to suggest two points:-
1. Most of the migration will head for the areas of demand and growth which is overwhelmingly concentrated in London and the South East. That places a lot of strain on a relatively small area and further accentuates a divide between it and much of the rest of the UK. So a figure of, say, 80 million is not equally spread out over a large country - a large part is concentrated. That concentration may well place more constraints on further growth.
2. There are large areas of the UK which are not very inhabited but (a) that may be for a good reason i.e. not much reason for anyone to want to live there; and (b) the very space/green lungs and houses with gardens which are seen as desirable become impossible save for the very few as a result of an increase in numbers. So it's not just about whether we can accommodate more but about what that means for the style of life we have, our urban and country environment, for how we live and what our idea of home is.
I was brought up for parts of my childhood in Naples - a noisy, filthy, uber-urban city with scarcely a blade of grass anywhere in the place. I loved it. But I had Ireland too and a garden in which to play and Hampstead Heath. I think that part of the concern with an increasing population is that it will change a very English view of what the ideal or desirable life is - house and garden and a bit of space. That sense of space, that desire for to have a bit of England which people can call their own is not to be dismissed lightly. Just because we can fit more and more people in does not necessarily mean we should. We ought to have the choice.
I could have said water resources but on that measure the whole world can live here.0 -
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Ireland_Act_1914 . One of the great "what-ifs" of 20th century UK history...Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Yes it was a disaster. If I could turn back history I would also reverse the union of 1801 which was also a disaster.williamglenn said:
You didn't answer my earlier question about your view on partition. Would you like to reverse it?Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Thats irrelevant as treaties going back to partition make us honorsry citizens of each others states with all the rights that go with it.williamglenn said:
So you'd support an automatic right to settle in Belfast, but not in Dublin?Sean_F said:
That's it. To me, they are other countries, with different traditions and interests, and I fail to see why I should have an automatic right to settle in them.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.
Thats why RoI citizens get to vote in the referendum if resident here
I wuuld much prefer to see a united ireland as a free self governing state as Australia is with the Queen as head of state
Happy now?0 -
I chose Grimsby at random -probably because of the film of the same name-but I haven't looked for employment in Venice. I have worked there a few times though and found it very easy. Do they make life difficult?Cookie said:
1) Did you know there is a fish dock tower thing in Grimsby modelled on Venice? (You can look up the details yourself; I cant be bothered, its nearly tea time).Roger said:OT. If anyone wants a good reason to be keep Europe as close to our collective bosom as we can watch 'Francesco's Venice'.
Then consider that we can go there to work or live as easily as we can Grimsby.
(PS BBC at its very best)
2) Have you ever tried to live and/or work in Venice? It must be the most impractical city in Europe for either. It's astonishing that it still exists; a testament to Venetian bloody-mindedness. The fact that it has basically just been there for the tourists for probably the last 300 years or so takes absolutely nothing away from how glorious a place it is.0 -
When they tell you the BBC got no money...
Live blogging 1996 England vs Scotland footy game....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/362582490 -
@EPG
Yes in the sort of top 1% of jobs and in the bottom section language skills just need to be basic. But in the normal broad middle it's just not so. You need Italian to be a butcher baker or candlestick maker. As an example, actors can fairly seamlessly flow between here and the US or Australia and vice versa ( even though there are legal restrictions sure) in a way that is not going to happen between the RSC and Italian television or stage.
Of course the English language is a major pull factor in the asymmetric migration between the UK and E Europe. I doubt proportionately for its population Finland ( say ) is thick with Bulgarian or Polish or whatever EU migrants.0 -
Is there even such a thing as 'ethnic Britons' in the sense you imply? The UK is a union of countries and the act of union was to some extent a union of ethnicities, was it not? Anglo-Saxons, Celts, Scots, Ulster Scots, Jews. Then there are several non-White ethnicities who were, within a few generations ago, subjects of the crown. You mentioned India yourself.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Perbaps you would like to explain why giving preference to ethnic Britons, as Germany do for ethnic Germans is so vile?Roger said:
You don't even have to scratch the surface before the Mail revert to their roots. Little has really changed there since the mid 1930'sPaul_Bedfordshire said:
It is ridiculous that we have free entry to EU citizens yet our Kith and Kin and fellow subjects of Her Majesty do not.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Even Germany give special preference to Ethnic Germans who live outside the EU.
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The streets are really flooded. Ridiculous.Roger said:
I chose Grimsby at random -probably because of the film of the same name-but I haven't looked for employment in Venice. I have worked there a few times though and found it very easy. Do they make life difficult?Cookie said:
1) Did you know there is a fish dock tower thing in Grimsby modelled on Venice? (You can look up the details yourself; I cant be bothered, its nearly tea time).Roger said:OT. If anyone wants a good reason to be keep Europe as close to our collective bosom as we can watch 'Francesco's Venice'.
Then consider that we can go there to work or live as easily as we can Grimsby.
(PS BBC at its very best)
2) Have you ever tried to live and/or work in Venice? It must be the most impractical city in Europe for either. It's astonishing that it still exists; a testament to Venetian bloody-mindedness. The fact that it has basically just been there for the tourists for probably the last 300 years or so takes absolutely nothing away from how glorious a place it is.0 -
It is certainly the easiest solution to border problems.Mortimer said:
If we left the EU, Ireland might too....williamglenn said:
You didn't answer my earlier question about your view on partition. Would you like to reverse it?Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Thats irrelevant as treaties going back to partition make us honorsry citizens of each others states with all the rights that go with it.williamglenn said:
So you'd support an automatic right to settle in Belfast, but not in Dublin?Sean_F said:
That's it. To me, they are other countries, with different traditions and interests, and I fail to see why I should have an automatic right to settle in them.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.
Thats why RoI citizens get to vote in the referendum if resident here0 -
I don't think you're being entirely honest. You clearly think Ireland's agricultural resources are there for the whole of the British Isles so your fantasy scenario doesn't involve a fully self-governing Irish state.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Yes it was a disaster. If I could turn back history I would also reverse the union of 1801 which was also a disaster.williamglenn said:
You didn't answer my earlier question about your view on partition. Would you like to reverse it?Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Thats irrelevant as treaties going back to partition make us honorsry citizens of each others states with all the rights that go with it.williamglenn said:
So you'd support an automatic right to settle in Belfast, but not in Dublin?Sean_F said:
That's it. To me, they are other countries, with different traditions and interests, and I fail to see why I should have an automatic right to settle in them.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.
Thats why RoI citizens get to vote in the referendum if resident here
I wuuld much prefer to see a united ireland as a free self governing state as Australia is with the Queen as head of state
Happy now?0 -
Won't be enough to get you over the Severn Crossing mind. We charge £6.50.Bromptonaut said:
You are Owain Glyndwr and I claim my £5.welshowl said:
Yes but you dug a bloody dike to keep me out.Bromptonaut said:
Yes, I live in the Kingdom of Mercia, but don't mind people from Wessex living here.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.0 -
Basically anyone who can provide evidence that they originate from these Isles. At tbe moment unless you have a grandparent or parent who is British you are locked out - even if the only reason you are there was because your ancestos were out there on his majesties service or Transported there involuntarily.Jobabob said:
Is there even such a thing as 'ethnic Britons' in the sense you imply? The UK is a union of countries and the act of union was to some extent a union of ethnicities, was it not? Anglo-Saxons, Celts, Scots, Ulster Scots, Jews. Then there are several non-White ethnicities who were, within a few generations ago, subjects of the crown. You mentioned India yourself.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Perbaps you would like to explain why giving preference to ethnic Britons, as Germany do for ethnic Germans is so vile?Roger said:
You don't even have to scratch the surface before the Mail revert to their roots. Little has really changed there since the mid 1930'sPaul_Bedfordshire said:
It is ridiculous that we have free entry to EU citizens yet our Kith and Kin and fellow subjects of Her Majesty do not.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Even Germany give special preference to Ethnic Germans who live outside the EU.
Meanwhile anyone from Slovakia or Latvia - far away places of which we know little is in, no questions asked.
Edit Spelling - I wish OGH would set the blog up to be mobile compatible.
0 -
If the UK wants much more immigration from some countries, can't it say so without quitting Europe?Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Basically anyone who can provide evidence that they originate from these Isles. At tbe moment unless you have a grandparent or parent who is British you are locked out - even if the only reason you are there was because your ancestos were out there on his majesties service or Transported there involuntarily.Jobabob said:
Is there even such a thing as 'ethnic Britons' in the sense you imply? The UK is a union of countries and the act of union was to some extent a union of ethnicities, was it not? Anglo-Saxons, Celts, Scots, Ulster Scots, Jews. Then there are several non-White ethnicities who were, within a few generations ago, subjects of the crown. You mentioned India yourself.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Perbaps you would like to explain why giving preference to ethnic Britons, as Germany do for ethnic Germans is so vile?Roger said:
You don't even have to scratch the surface before the Mail revert to their roots. Little has really changed there since the mid 1930'sPaul_Bedfordshire said:
It is ridiculous that we have free entry to EU citizens yet our Kith and Kin and fellow subjects of Her Majesty do not.Sunil_Prasannan said:
Even Germany give special preference to Ethnic Germans who live outside the EU.
Meanwhile anyone from Slovakia or Latvia - far away places of which we know little is in, no questions asked.
Edit Spelling - I wish OGH would set the blog up to be mobile compatible.0 -
Have you looked at where most Irish agricultural exports go. Their agricultural resources ARE there for the whole of the British Isles and if they were not RoI would be bankrupt.williamglenn said:
I don't think you're being entirely honest. You clearly think Ireland's agricultural resources are there for the whole of the British Isles so your fantasy scenario doesn't involve a fully self-governing Irish state.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Yes it was a disaster. If I could turn back history I would also reverse the union of 1801 which was also a disaster.williamglenn said:
You didn't answer my earlier question about your view on partition. Would you like to reverse it?Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Thats irrelevant as treaties going back to partition make us honorsry citizens of each others states with all the rights that go with it.williamglenn said:
So you'd support an automatic right to settle in Belfast, but not in Dublin?Sean_F said:
That's it. To me, they are other countries, with different traditions and interests, and I fail to see why I should have an automatic right to settle in them.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.
Thats why RoI citizens get to vote in the referendum if resident here
I wuuld much prefer to see a united ireland as a free self governing state as Australia is with the Queen as head of state
Happy now?
BTW Im a Catholic0 -
Again....I can't work out if this is the Daily Mash article that has accidentally been picked up by the MSM...
SAS using Bollywood music to defeat ISIS
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/what-music-british-special-forces-8090316?ICID=ref_fark
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3620096/Who-Dares-Sings-SAS-using-Bollywood-music-defeat-ISIS-Pakistani-intelligence-reveal-terror-group-particularly-irritating.html0 -
Most don't go to the UK. I literally googled it in 10 seconds.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Have you looked at where most Irish agricultural exports go. Their agricultural resources ARE there for the whole of the British Isles and if they were not RoI would be bankrupt.williamglenn said:I don't think you're being entirely honest. You clearly think Ireland's agricultural resources are there for the whole of the British Isles so your fantasy scenario doesn't involve a fully self-governing Irish state.
BTW Im a Catholic0 -
Well both states are currently part of a federal customs union called the EU which facilitates such mutually beneficial exchange. I would rather keep it that way, and keep the rest of the European states involved too.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Have you looked at where most Irish agricultural exports go. Their agricultural resources ARE there for the whole of the British Isles and if they were not RoI would be bankrupt.williamglenn said:
I don't think you're being entirely honest. You clearly think Ireland's agricultural resources are there for the whole of the British Isles so your fantasy scenario doesn't involve a fully self-governing Irish state.
BTW Im a Catholic
It's the Brexit camp that would imperil this rosy picture.0 -
Sorry, are the Daily Mash and Daily Mail two different papers?FrancisUrquhart said:Again....I can't work out if this is the Daily Mash article that has accidentally been picked up by the MSM...
SAS using Bollywood music to defeat ISIS
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/what-music-british-special-forces-8090316?ICID=ref_fark
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3620096/Who-Dares-Sings-SAS-using-Bollywood-music-defeat-ISIS-Pakistani-intelligence-reveal-terror-group-particularly-irritating.html0 -
Should we vote to stay in, I will advocate a completely open door immigration policy. With a bit off luck it will kill of the welfare state and the NHS.EPG said:If the UK wants much more immigration from some countries, can't it say so without quitting Europe?
0 -
Hard to tell...it has been picked up by lots of media outlets.BenedictWhite said:
Sorry, are the Daily Mash and Daily Mail two different papers?FrancisUrquhart said:Again....I can't work out if this is the Daily Mash article that has accidentally been picked up by the MSM...
SAS using Bollywood music to defeat ISIS
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/what-music-british-special-forces-8090316?ICID=ref_fark
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3620096/Who-Dares-Sings-SAS-using-Bollywood-music-defeat-ISIS-Pakistani-intelligence-reveal-terror-group-particularly-irritating.html0 -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/01/leytonstone-tube-station-attack-victim-says-he-is-lucky-to-be-al/
Do we really need to see this?0 -
Is there a market for the result/ scorer(s)?FrancisUrquhart said:When they tell you the BBC got no money...
Live blogging 1996 England vs Scotland footy game....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/362582490 -
Anecdote alert.
Talking at work today (mostly Remainers) to one remainer. He's voted by post, as has his wife and daughter. All Leave.
With other remainers, the view is immigration is unacceptably high. They haven't voted yet. They may vote remain, they may vote leave. 3 weeks ago they were solid remain.0 -
One makes up fictional stories from whole cloth to satisfy its readership...BenedictWhite said:
Sorry, are the Daily Mash and Daily Mail two different papers?FrancisUrquhart said:Again....I can't work out if this is the Daily Mash article that has accidentally been picked up by the MSM...
SAS using Bollywood music to defeat ISIS
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/what-music-british-special-forces-8090316?ICID=ref_fark
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3620096/Who-Dares-Sings-SAS-using-Bollywood-music-defeat-ISIS-Pakistani-intelligence-reveal-terror-group-particularly-irritating.html0 -
I was hoping crowdscores would help me get ahead of the plebs on this one...weejonnie said:
Is there a market for the result/ scorer(s)?FrancisUrquhart said:When they tell you the BBC got no money...
Live blogging 1996 England vs Scotland footy game....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/362582490 -
41% to UKEPG said:
Most don't go to the UK. I literally googled it in 10 seconds.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Have you looked at where most Irish agricultural exports go. Their agricultural resources ARE there for the whole of the British Isles and if they were not RoI would be bankrupt.williamglenn said:I don't think you're being entirely honest. You clearly think Ireland's agricultural resources are there for the whole of the British Isles so your fantasy scenario doesn't involve a fully self-governing Irish state.
BTW Im a Catholic
31% to rest of EU.
28% to rest of the world.
A plurality if not a majority !0 -
Somalia attack: MPs among dead in hotel blast and gun raid
Gunmen have stormed a hotel in the centre of the Somali capital Mogadishu, with reports of at least 10 dead and 50 wounded.
The attackers entered the Ambassador Hotel on Maka al-Mukarama street after setting off a car bomb at the gates outside, witnesses said.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-364303060 -
And the other one is a satirical look at tabloids...viewcode said:
One makes up fictional stories from whole cloth to satisfy its readership...BenedictWhite said:
Sorry, are the Daily Mash and Daily Mail two different papers?FrancisUrquhart said:Again....I can't work out if this is the Daily Mash article that has accidentally been picked up by the MSM...
SAS using Bollywood music to defeat ISIS
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/what-music-british-special-forces-8090316?ICID=ref_fark
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3620096/Who-Dares-Sings-SAS-using-Bollywood-music-defeat-ISIS-Pakistani-intelligence-reveal-terror-group-particularly-irritating.html
Yes, I get that, but which is which?0 -
Apparently Gazza's having a shocker, so I wouldn't back him ...weejonnie said:
Is there a market for the result/ scorer(s)?FrancisUrquhart said:When they tell you the BBC got no money...
Live blogging 1996 England vs Scotland footy game....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/362582490 -
GET HIM OFFF.......ThomasNashe said:
Apparently Gazza's having a shocker, so I wouldn't back him ...weejonnie said:
Is there a market for the result/ scorer(s)?FrancisUrquhart said:When they tell you the BBC got no money...
Live blogging 1996 England vs Scotland footy game....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/football/36258249
Don't know about anybody else but picture quality is rubbish on my massive flatscreen.... ;-)0 -
Can someone remind me when Osbourne is going in front of Andrew Neil?0
-
It is increasingly difficult to tell sometimes.viewcode said:
One makes up fictional stories from whole cloth to satisfy its readership...BenedictWhite said:
Sorry, are the Daily Mash and Daily Mail two different papers?FrancisUrquhart said:Again....I can't work out if this is the Daily Mash article that has accidentally been picked up by the MSM...
SAS using Bollywood music to defeat ISIS
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/what-music-british-special-forces-8090316?ICID=ref_fark
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3620096/Who-Dares-Sings-SAS-using-Bollywood-music-defeat-ISIS-Pakistani-intelligence-reveal-terror-group-particularly-irritating.html
A good office lunchtime game is to read a headline out and get people to guess if it is Mail or Mash0 -
Test0
-
The results of ICM's recent poll (data collected 27-29 May) were
telephone - remain 42%, leave 45%, don't know, won't say or won't vote 15%
online - remain 44% leave 47%, don't know, won't say or won't vote 9%
or of those who expressed a preference
both methods - remain 48%, leave 52%
So the difference here is in the proportion of DK/WS/WV: 15% on the telephone, 9% online.
And that looks to be the reason for the difference between phone and online results: shy Leavers on the phone. Is this supported by a qualitative consideration? Yes. Immigration is the main issue. Most people want to reduce it. And people have been told for decades that it's dirty to want to reduce it.
0 -
It's also one of the reasons why there is so much short-term "migration" to the UK. A year spent working in an English-speaking country is a great asset to any EU professional's CV.EPG said:
Well that is a little like noting that accountants aren't free to work as doctors. Naturally if you do not have a skill, you will not achieve a job. However, in so far as international employment in the EU is concerned, of course the desire to recruit English-speakers gives UK applicants a huge advantage in skilled fields.welshowl said:
Quite and one of the deep problems of the Euro. It's all well and good having the right to work in Italy, and you might be a highly qualified lawyer, accountant actor or whatever but if you can't speak Italian that right is severely limited in practice. There isn't the real free movement of labour as between Sussex and Dundee, Chicago and Alabama or Stuttgart and Leipzig.Cookie said:
But a pretty impractical one. Most of us don't have the language skills to exercise such a right. It would be far more useful for far more people to have the right to live and work in Australia, Canada, and New Zealand - and I think we would be fairly happy for those rights to be reciprocal. The right to go and work in France or Italy or Romania isn't really much use to many beyond a small minority. I don't want to dismiss this out of hand, but I don't think many people can get too excited by it.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.
There isn't a European "polis" despite decades of trying to will one into existence by creating Euro parliaments, passports, currencies, or regional development funds.0 -
REMAIN are using Martin Lewis on the leaflet that is being posted to every postal voter. This is after he objected.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3601228/Consumer-champion-Martin-Lewis-attacks-pro-EU-campaign-featured-quote-picture-leaflet-without-permission.html0 -
I have seen them use him in social media adverts as well.TCPoliticalBetting said:REMAIN are using Martin Lewis on the leaflet that is being posted to every postal voter. This is after he objected.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3601228/Consumer-champion-Martin-Lewis-attacks-pro-EU-campaign-featured-quote-picture-leaflet-without-permission.html0 -
Ordinarily I'm with you, mainly due to gout. But a few weeks ago I bought a pair for £9.99 in Aldis, tried them on in the aisle, as you say, luvverly jubbly.SeanT said:
Can't remember the last time I paid less than £300 for a pair of shoes.TheScreamingEagles said:
I notice too, it's why I'm so fussy, choosy, and particular when it comes to buying the right footwear for myself.DavidL said:
In court tomorrow. Polished shoes tonight. You are not the only one that notices.HurstLlama said:
I agree but find that most people have trousers that are too long not too short, I have seen chaps that have paid a lot of cash for a nice suit but the trousers end with a concertina effect at the bottom end, and look awful.Mortimer said:
The suit wearers that make me wince are those who obviously went to the tailor and asked for their trousers to be made two inches too-sodding-short.Cyclefree said:
British politicians are appallingly dressed. British men - on the whole, to be honest. (I now expect a load of posts from TSE pointing out his exquisite taste in shoes so I will exempt him from the charge.) They can't do casual and seem wholly unacquainted with mirrors. And the suits these days are an abomination. They rarely fit and those stupid skinny suits make men look like Victorian bank clerks.Jobabob said:I have noted that the tie has become increasingly unpopular for London mayors. Sadiq, while undeniably a snappy dresser, is rarely seen wearing one. Boris, too, was often without neckwear. Their predecessor Ken was, by contrast, a relatively committed tie-wearer while mayor.
And men with long dirty fingernails should be executed, frankly. Unless they're Monty Don - and even then they should keep them short.
Trousers should break once, somewhere between the top of the shin and the shoe according to taste.
My biggest beef is with shoes. The number of men in expensive, if ill-fitting, suits flashy shirts and silk ties but with shoes that have never been polished astonishes me. When I was in business the feet were the first place I looked when I met someone new. Very few people with dirty shoes got a job or a contract from me. It is all about attention to detail.
Most I've paid for shoes is £500. I did wince at that, but they are luvverly jubbles.
DON'T SKIMP ON SHOES0 -
-
Don't get me wrong, if I was fortunate enough to be dining with @cyclefree or @plato my Church's would be on parade, but I'm a minimalist.SeanT said:blackburn63 said:
Ordinarily I'm with you, mainly due to gout. But a few weeks ago I bought a pair for £9.99 in Aldis, tried them on in the aisle, as you say, luvverly jubbly.SeanT said:
Can't remember the last time I paid less than £300 for a pair of shoes.TheScreamingEagles said:
I notice too, it's why I'm so fussy, choosy, and particular when it comes to buying the right footwear for myself.DavidL said:
In court tomorrow. Polished shoes tonight. You are not the only one that notices.HurstLlama said:
I agree but find that most people have trousers that are too long not too short, I have seen chaps that have paid a lot of cash for a nice suit but the trousers end with a concertina effect at the bottom end, and look awful.Mortimer said:
The suit wearers that make me wince are those who obviously went to the tailor and asked for their trousers to be made two inches too-sodding-short.Cyclefree said:
British politicians are appallingly dressed. British men - on the whole, to be honest. (I now expect a load of posts from TSE pointing out his exquisite taste in shoes so I will exempt him from the charge.) They can't do casual and seem wholly unacquainted with mirrors. And the suits these days are an abomination. They rarely fit and those stupid skinny suits make men look like Victorian bank clerks.Jobabob said:I have noted that the tie has become increasingly unpopular for London mayors. Sadiq, while undeniably a snappy dresser, is rarely seen wearing one. Boris, too, was often without neckwear. Their predecessor Ken was, by contrast, a relatively committed tie-wearer while mayor.
And men with long dirty fingernails should be executed, frankly. Unless they're Monty Don - and even then they should keep them short.
Trousers should break once, somewhere between the top of the shin and the shoe according to taste.
My biggest beef is with shoes. The number of men in expensive, if ill-fitting, suits flashy shirts and silk ties but with shoes that have never been polished astonishes me. When I was in business the feet were the first place I looked when I met someone new. Very few people with dirty shoes got a job or a contract from me. It is all about attention to detail.
Most I've paid for shoes is £500. I did wince at that, but they are luvverly jubbles.
DON'T SKIMP ON SHOES
I'm trying not to BARF and then FAINT at the concept of shoes from Aldi. Costing £9.99
*barfs*
*faints*0 -
Public Notice...ladies thinking of enjoying a night out in Taunton. A certain Mr C. Gayle has landed from the IPL, quickly got out and I am sure will be happy for the company.0
-
£6.50? Was £5 back in my day! Do they still let you out of Wales for free?welshowl said:
Won't be enough to get you over the Severn Crossing mind. We charge £6.50.Bromptonaut said:
You are Owain Glyndwr and I claim my £5.welshowl said:
Yes but you dug a bloody dike to keep me out.Bromptonaut said:
Yes, I live in the Kingdom of Mercia, but don't mind people from Wessex living here.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.0 -
Quinnipiac national general election
Clinton 45 Trump 41
Sanders 48 Trump 39
https://www.qu.edu/images/polling/us/us06012016_Ugb28vf.pdf
Georgia PPP
Trump 49 Clinton 40
Trump 48 Sanders 40
http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/2015/PPP_Release_GA_60116.pdf
Michigan Detroit News
Clinton 43 Trump 39
Sanders 52 Trump 33
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2016/05/31/poll-clinton-sanders-lead-trump-michigan-match-ups/85223072/
0 -
Obviously language is a big thing, but I know loads of people who have gone for a job somewhere on the Continent and simply picked it up - and it's not just middle-class people or recent either (cf. Auf Wiedersehen, Pet). A lot of young people feel it's part of the fun, and regret the prospect of it becoming harder. Going to work in Australia etc. is a big, expensive project even if one can get a visa, or work illegally as many do. I have a female relative who cheerfully backpacked round the world on her own in her 20s, picking fruit for a living. I asked her if she'd applied for work permits everywhere and she looked at me as though I'd just arrived from Mars.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
France is Foreign, Germany is Foreign.
Austrailia is not, US is not, Ireland is not South Africa is not and to some extent even India is not.
In all those places I can land on a plane and hit the ground fully, communicate freely, understand the rules which are basically identical, even understand the subtle nuances and in all but one of those cases jump in a car and not find myself on the wrong side of tbe road.
At times I will forget that I am not in the UK.
Europe is different, interesting but very different.0 -
French historical bonkbuster, Versailles, about to start now on BBC20
-
Tasers & ties:
On a tedious personal pedal note, generally I often get rid of things I haven't used for a long time. So most of my ties went long ago, except for a couple of 1970s narrow leather ones that I used to wear with my Carnaby St skin-tight woollen slightly flared trousers. Actually I kept those too, and I can still wear 'em.
heh.0 -
@camillalong: 90 seconds into Versailles and still no gay sex or naked tittays. FlopHYUFD said:French historical bonkbuster, Versailles, about to start now on BBC2
0 -
You don't need to watch and it seems perfectly clear what you are about to watch if you press the titty. I wonder how many others are offended. I'm not even though you've enabled me to see something that offends you so that it might offend me.FrancisUrquhart said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/01/leytonstone-tube-station-attack-victim-says-he-is-lucky-to-be-al/
Do we really need to see this?0 -
Catching up on three threads of Monty Hall puzzles and coin toss games reminds me of this:
A gambler relys on information. The video is completely genuine, despite Mr Brown's reputation for trickery, but think about what you don't know to work out how he did it.
https://youtu.be/XzYLHOX50Bc0 -
Yes. Trick is to go out on M4 and if at all possible arrange the day so you come back on the A449 via Ross and avoid all tolls. Due to be cut anyway ( in half?) in a couple of years.Sandpit said:
£6.50? Was £5 back in my day! Do they still let you out of Wales for free?welshowl said:
Won't be enough to get you over the Severn Crossing mind. We charge £6.50.Bromptonaut said:
You are Owain Glyndwr and I claim my £5.welshowl said:
Yes but you dug a bloody dike to keep me out.Bromptonaut said:
Yes, I live in the Kingdom of Mercia, but don't mind people from Wessex living here.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.0 -
I didn't say anything about being offended. I just queried if we NEED to see this. It was a general musing type question, not outrage.ReggieCide said:
You don't need to watch and it seems perfectly clear what you are about to watch if you press the titty. I wonder how many others are offended. I'm not even though you've enabled me to see something that offends you so that it might offend me.FrancisUrquhart said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/01/leytonstone-tube-station-attack-victim-says-he-is-lucky-to-be-al/
Do we really need to see this?0 -
As a pauper I was raised to believe if you buy cheap you buy twice, I have a pair of suede brogues that are nearly 20 years old, a bit like Trigger's broom.SeanT said:Even when dining alone, I always wear pukka shoes. Anything else seems not right.
If and when I am poor again, my addiction to expensive English men's shoes will be oh-so difficult to kick. And they will have to prise my Cheaney's oxblood brogues from my cold, impoverished hands.
I only wear the Aldis shoes to debate with Meeks, its all that's needed.0 -
Except that the figures suggest there are an equal number of shy remainers. To what do you attribute that?John_N4 said:The results of ICM's recent poll (data collected 27-29 May) were
telephone - remain 42%, leave 45%, don't know, won't say or won't vote 15%
online - remain 44% leave 47%, don't know, won't say or won't vote 9%
or of those who expressed a preference
both methods - remain 48%, leave 52%
So the difference here is in the proportion of DK/WS/WV: 15% on the telephone, 9% online.
And that looks to be the reason for the difference between phone and online results: shy Leavers on the phone. Is this supported by a qualitative consideration? Yes. Immigration is the main issue. Most people want to reduce it. And people have been told for decades that it's dirty to want to reduce it.
Personally I think we're over-analysing small differences.0 -
I remember that episode. I had a fairly good idea how he did it from the get go.Sandpit said:Catching up on three threads of Monty Hall puzzles and coin toss games reminds me of this:
A gambler relys on information. The video is completely genuine, despite Mr Brown's reputation for trickery, but think about what you don't know to work out how he did it.
https://youtu.be/XzYLHOX50Bc0 -
10 minutes in and you have had your two scenes!Scott_P said:
@camillalong: 90 seconds into Versailles and still no gay sex or naked tittays. FlopHYUFD said:French historical bonkbuster, Versailles, about to start now on BBC2
0 -
I'm struggling to see why you think the first of these would be a parody. Doesn't it make sense that scientists who are witnessing the destruction of our environment at first hand would worry that allowing themselves to be seen to express their horror emotionally might be interpreted as unprofessionalism?SeanT said:
The Guardian is the same, on the opposite side. It is very difficult sometimes to work out whether a Guardian headline is real, or one of those spoof Guardian headlines from Guardian parodists.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
It is increasingly difficult to tell sometimes.viewcode said:
One makes up fictional stories from whole cloth to satisfy its readership...BenedictWhite said:
Sorry, are the Daily Mash and Daily Mail two different papers?FrancisUrquhart said:Again....I can't work out if this is the Daily Mash article that has accidentally been picked up by the MSM...
SAS using Bollywood music to defeat ISIS
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/what-music-british-special-forces-8090316?ICID=ref_fark
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3620096/Who-Dares-Sings-SAS-using-Bollywood-music-defeat-ISIS-Pakistani-intelligence-reveal-terror-group-particularly-irritating.html
A good office lunchtime game is to read a headline out and get people to guess if it is Mail or Mash
Couple of favourites:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/09/is-it-ok-scientists-weep-over-climate-change
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jul/04/barbecue-american-tradition-enslaved-africans-native-americans
Possible summit attained here:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/08/dread-daughter-poos-smaller-girl-conform
All of these are real. More real ones here:
http://somuchguardian.tumblr.com/0 -
http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlationsScott_P said:
OK, so there's probably *a* correlation...0 -
Not watching, sounds like plenty of tits, but are there any dragons? ;-)HYUFD said:
10 minutes in and you have had your two scenes!Scott_P said:
@camillalong: 90 seconds into Versailles and still no gay sex or naked tittays. FlopHYUFD said:French historical bonkbuster, Versailles, about to start now on BBC2
0 -
Telegraph are turning rapidly into the Mail unfortunately. Not so long ago a graphic court description of an attempted murder didn't need to be accompanied by the CCTV images.FrancisUrquhart said:
I didn't say anything about being offended. I just queried if we NEED to see this. It was a general musing type question, not outrage.ReggieCide said:
You don't need to watch and it seems perfectly clear what you are about to watch if you press the titty. I wonder how many others are offended. I'm not even though you've enabled me to see something that offends you so that it might offend me.FrancisUrquhart said:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/01/leytonstone-tube-station-attack-victim-says-he-is-lucky-to-be-al/
Do we really need to see this?0 -
Yes. The cars are normally travelling too fast...Sandpit said:
£6.50? Was £5 back in my day! Do they still let you out of Wales for free?welshowl said:
Won't be enough to get you over the Severn Crossing mind. We charge £6.50.Bromptonaut said:
You are Owain Glyndwr and I claim my £5.welshowl said:
Yes but you dug a bloody dike to keep me out.Bromptonaut said:
Yes, I live in the Kingdom of Mercia, but don't mind people from Wessex living here.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.0 -
Cheeky..BenedictWhite said:
Yes. The cars are normally travelling too fast...Sandpit said:
£6.50? Was £5 back in my day! Do they still let you out of Wales for free?welshowl said:
Won't be enough to get you over the Severn Crossing mind. We charge £6.50.Bromptonaut said:
You are Owain Glyndwr and I claim my £5.welshowl said:
Yes but you dug a bloody dike to keep me out.Bromptonaut said:
Yes, I live in the Kingdom of Mercia, but don't mind people from Wessex living here.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa.0 -
@OxfordUnion: Do you still stand by your comments that Hitler was supporting Zionism?
.@ken4london: What historian doesn't?0 -
You need to watch Banshee or Strike Back. Either series has plenty of sex and nudity, some full frontal.FrancisUrquhart said:
Not watching, sounds like plenty of tits, but are there any dragons? ;-)HYUFD said:
10 minutes in and you have had your two scenes!Scott_P said:
@camillalong: 90 seconds into Versailles and still no gay sex or naked tittays. FlopHYUFD said:French historical bonkbuster, Versailles, about to start now on BBC2
0 -
@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING:Spanish president says Brits would lose right to "move freely" in EU after Brexit https://t.co/pQYQIqLOXc https://t.co/GAp0jBUbcL0
-
Oh god...they let him out and after dark to boot....meaning he has had plenty of time to quench his thirst.Scott_P said:@OxfordUnion: Do you still stand by your comments that Hitler was supporting Zionism?
.@ken4london: What historian doesn't?0 -
Every amateur gambler should watch it, it shows them how the professionals operate!FrancisUrquhart said:
I remember that episode. I had a fairly good idea how he did it from the get go.Sandpit said:Catching up on three threads of Monty Hall puzzles and coin toss games reminds me of this:
A gambler relys on information. The video is completely genuine, despite Mr Brown's reputation for trickery, but think about what you don't know to work out how he did it.
https://youtu.be/XzYLHOX50Bc
This is the man banned from every casino in the UK.0 -
How many takes did he do?Sandpit said:Catching up on three threads of Monty Hall puzzles and coin toss games reminds me of this:
A gambler relys on information. The video is completely genuine, despite Mr Brown's reputation for trickery, but think about what you don't know to work out how he did it.
https://youtu.be/XzYLHOX50Bc0 -
Well, obviously.Scott_P said:@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING:Spanish president says Brits would lose right to "move freely" in EU after Brexit https://t.co/pQYQIqLOXc https://t.co/GAp0jBUbcL
0 -
Leave will just dismiss it as project fear but if this gets headlines and more EU Countries endorse Spain and the Dutch's position in the coming days it could have an influenceScott_P said:@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING:Spanish president says Brits would lose right to "move freely" in EU after Brexit https://t.co/pQYQIqLOXc https://t.co/GAp0jBUbcL
0 -
9hrs worth...DavidL said:
How many takes did he do?Sandpit said:Catching up on three threads of Monty Hall puzzles and coin toss games reminds me of this:
A gambler relys on information. The video is completely genuine, despite Mr Brown's reputation for trickery, but think about what you don't know to work out how he did it.
https://youtu.be/XzYLHOX50Bc0 -
One. But you're on the right lines.DavidL said:
How many takes did he do?Sandpit said:Catching up on three threads of Monty Hall puzzles and coin toss games reminds me of this:
A gambler relys on information. The video is completely genuine, despite Mr Brown's reputation for trickery, but think about what you don't know to work out how he did it.
https://youtu.be/XzYLHOX50Bc
0 -
So come on, which pb poster is he?SeanT said:This is incredible.
I was just on the phone arranging lunch next week with a friend.
He's about 40.
Ten years ago he was a fulltime heroin addict in a small Welsh town. Eight years ago he was in prison, serving time for manslaughter. Five years ago, when he got out, he was scraping a living as a plumber.
On the phone he told me he would probably come to London for lunch, driven by his chauffeur, as he is bored of driving his new supercars (he has three). The last time he was in town was for the wedding of his new best friend, a famous billionaire.
The creative company he runs, and which is entirely his own creation, began life three years ago.
Quite incredibly inspiring. His is the most amazing life journey I have ever witnessed, personally.0 -
Have you ever considered doing some sort of a "conversion with.." type show?SeanT said:This is incredible.
I was just on the phone arranging lunch next week with a friend.
He's about 40.
Ten years ago he was a fulltime heroin addict in a small Welsh town. Eight years ago he was in prison, serving time for manslaughter. Five years ago, when he got out, he was scraping a living as a plumber.
On the phone he told me he would probably come to London for lunch, driven by his chauffeur, as he is bored of driving his new supercars (he has three). The last time he was in town was for the wedding of his new best friend, a famous billionaire.
The creative company he runs, and which is entirely his own creation, began life three years ago.
Quite incredibly inspiring. His is the most amazing life journey I have ever witnessed, personally.0 -
welshowl said:
Cheeky..BenedictWhite said:
Yes. The cars are normally travelling too fast...Sandpit said:
£6.50? Was £5 back in my day! Do they still let you out of Wales for free?welshowl said:
Won't be enough to get you over the Severn Crossing mind. We charge £6.50.Bromptonaut said:
You are Owain Glyndwr and I claim my £5.welshowl said:
Yes but you dug a bloody dike to keep me out.Bromptonaut said:
Yes, I live in the Kingdom of Mercia, but don't mind people from Wessex living here.williamglenn said:
Stop thinking of the EU as 'other countries'. It is a federation whose citizens, including Brits, should consider such privileges as a birthright.Sean_F said:
Many British nationals seem to have little difficulty living and working in First World countries outside the EU. But of course, they have no unqualified right to live and work there. They are subject to immigration controls and that is right.williamglenn said:
Travel isn't the issue. It's the right to work and live that's the concern. Try moving to the US to work without expensive lawyers like Fragomen. It would be a disaster if we had to experience anything similar to take a job in France.Paul_Bedfordshire said:
Surely the answer to that is Do you need a visa to Travel to Iceland, Switzerland or Canada, No. So highly unlikely.nunu said:Decided against canvassing for Leave.
Was afraid of this scenario:
Voter: Will I need a visa to travel to Europe
Me: We just don't know.
I certainly see no reason why I should have an unqualified right to live and work in other countries and vice versa. Sorry... 0 -
Wow. That's patience.FrancisUrquhart said:
9hrs worth...DavidL said:
How many takes did he do?Sandpit said:Catching up on three threads of Monty Hall puzzles and coin toss games reminds me of this:
A gambler relys on information. The video is completely genuine, despite Mr Brown's reputation for trickery, but think about what you don't know to work out how he did it.
https://youtu.be/XzYLHOX50Bc0 -
20st ISIS executioner dubbed The Bulldozer is 'captured' by the Syrian army and dumped half-naked in the back of a truck
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3620037/Flattened-Terrifying-20st-ISIS-executioner-dubbed-Bulldozer-captured-Syrian-army-dumped-half-naked-truck.html
Do you think they will make him listen to Bollywood music?0 -
Could be worse, he could be doing a yoghurt advert for Roger ;-)DavidL said:
Wow. That's patience.FrancisUrquhart said:
9hrs worth...DavidL said:
How many takes did he do?Sandpit said:Catching up on three threads of Monty Hall puzzles and coin toss games reminds me of this:
A gambler relys on information. The video is completely genuine, despite Mr Brown's reputation for trickery, but think about what you don't know to work out how he did it.
https://youtu.be/XzYLHOX50Bc0 -
I'm struggling to understand how he doesn't understand that sharing a limited common purpose (getting Jews out of say Germany, and in the case of Zionists to the Palestinian mandate) does not make support for a common cause.Scott_P said:@OxfordUnion: Do you still stand by your comments that Hitler was supporting Zionism?
.@ken4london: What historian doesn't?
We supported the Soviet Union during most of WW2, doesn't mean we supported communism.0 -
When you think about it Brexit is a very real danger to the EU's free movement principle and they are going to become very strident in defending it. I expect this could become a very big issue over the next three weeks with neither side taking prisonersRobD said:
Well, obviously.Scott_P said:@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING:Spanish president says Brits would lose right to "move freely" in EU after Brexit https://t.co/pQYQIqLOXc https://t.co/GAp0jBUbcL
0 -
-
The thing is most of the people planning on voting Leave are the "underclass" who don't have a chance of leaving Goole or Thanet let alone moving to Madrid or Amsterdam.Scott_P said:@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING:Spanish president says Brits would lose right to "move freely" in EU after Brexit https://t.co/pQYQIqLOXc https://t.co/GAp0jBUbcL
0 -
Yes, but what about the important stuff. Leave or Remain?SeanT said:This is incredible.
I was just on the phone arranging lunch next week with a friend.
He's about 40.
Ten years ago he was a fulltime heroin addict in a small Welsh town. Eight years ago he was in prison, serving time for manslaughter. Five years ago, when he got out, he was scraping a living as a plumber.
On the phone he told me he would probably come to London for lunch, driven by his chauffeur, as he is bored of driving his new supercars (he has three). The last time he was in town was for the wedding of his new best friend, a famous billionaire.
The creative company he runs, and which is entirely his own creation, began life three years ago.
Quite incredibly inspiring. His is the most amazing life journey I have ever witnessed, personally.0 -
Why is that a surprise. They are accepting an end to free movement. It is expected to be reciprocal.Scott_P said:@PolhomeEditor: BREAKING:Spanish president says Brits would lose right to "move freely" in EU after Brexit https://t.co/pQYQIqLOXc https://t.co/GAp0jBUbcL
So you can go on holiday to Paris, no problem but can't go to work there without permission.0
