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Listened to findings from some people door knocking in mainly wwc area with local council elections underway and they are finding circa 6 in 10 indifference, 3 in 10 LEAVE, 1 in 10 REMAIN. They expect very low turnout from this area, closer to Council elections without a GE.chestnut said:
31% don't know, don't care, don't pay attention.rcs1000 said:
The 41% are the same 41% who would have voted Out.Plato_Says said:
Turnout ceiling 69%?
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So if that is the case why do only 28% agree with his intervention. That means a hell of lit of Remainders and undecideds don't care about it. Not exactly a roaring success.rcs1000 said:
The 41% are the same 41% who would have voted Out.Plato_Says said:0 -
topping up social security payments it seems. Free food means more money to spend on other thingsFrancisUrquhart said:
What do they give as a reason? Here it is overwhelming down to delays / changes in people benefit payments, rather than not enough benefits.Alanbrooke said:Apparently 1.5 million Germans use food banks
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/arm-und-reich/lebensmittel-fuer-beduerftige-deutschlands-grosse-tafelrunde-14182789.html0 -
As a lifetime asthmatic ...... runs in the family ...... it's on gt.gt.grandfather's death certificate....I owe, I suspect, my continued moderately good health, at least in part, to animal experimentation.NickPalmer said:
Yes, you're right.Richard_Tyndall said:
Agreed. I spent a great amount of time when I was at University campaigning on behalf of the BUAV and it was always very slow going. But the point we were discussing was on animal husbandry standards and we are well ahead of most of the rest of Europe and of EU standards as a whole on that subject.
Amazing how often we agree on stuff, isn't it? Shows the limitations of the left-right axis in defining how much people overlap.
By the way, the London postal votes landed today. Jez we Khan!
Good quality husbandry, of course, is a different matter.
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Sums up my view of Cameron. The views of the blue rinse brigade are unprintable.
Iain Martin @iainmartin1
.@DPJHodges Indeed it is. And a British PM (who I like) stood there and smirked while Obama insulted Britain. Glee of Remainers shaming.0 -
Considering the press today it's hardly surprising that significant numbers are claiming to be annoyed/angered by Obama's intervention. What ultimately matters though is what he said, and what he said doesn't help Leave one bit.0
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OK - just anecdotal but some of today's sample were volunteering their negative views before the words "Obama" or "President" were mentioned. Sample was mainly 60+ age and ABs.Richard_Tyndall said:
So if that is the case why do only 28% agree with his intervention. That means a hell of lit of Remainders and undecideds don't care about it. Not exactly a roaring success.rcs1000 said:
The 41% are the same 41% who would have voted Out.Plato_Says said:
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Those responses suggest the public are pretty apathetic about Obama/US relationship.felix said:Britain would be (X) effective at fighting terrorism if it left the EU: More: 24% Less: 28% [No diff.]: 40% (via YouGov / 22 Apr)
Britain's special relationship with the US would be (X) by leaving the EU: Strengthened: 7% Weakened: 23% [No diff.]: 59% (YouGov / 22 Apr)
Plato must have forgotten to post these two bits of the poll
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Sometimes the truth makes people annoyed/angry.alex. said:Considering the press today it's hardly surprising that significant numbers are claiming to be annoyed/angered by Obama's intervention. What ultimately matters though is what he said, and what he said doesn't help Leave one bit.
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There was a poll in the week which asked for people's feelings about the EU.TCPoliticalBetting said:
Listened to findings from some people door knocking in mainly wwc area with local council elections underway and they are finding circa 6 in 10 indifference, 3 in 10 LEAVE, 1 in 10 REMAIN. They expect very low turnout from this area, closer to Council elections without a GE.chestnut said:
31% don't know, don't care, don't pay attention.rcs1000 said:
The 41% are the same 41% who would have voted Out.Plato_Says said:
Turnout ceiling 69%?
If I remember correctly it was 24% Like (mainly young), 26% dislike (mainly older) and 50% 'neutral',
If half the public are neutral, it could easily imply disinterested/do not care.0 -
Not surprised, Mr B. the price of booze and fags seem to have shot up on the continent in recent years. We seem to be being driven to the ghastly situation of the Scandinavian countries. A fearful prospect.Alanbrooke said:
topping up social security payments it seems. Free food means more money to spend on other thingsFrancisUrquhart said:
What do they give as a reason? Here it is overwhelming down to delays / changes in people benefit payments, rather than not enough benefits.Alanbrooke said:Apparently 1.5 million Germans use food banks
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/arm-und-reich/lebensmittel-fuer-beduerftige-deutschlands-grosse-tafelrunde-14182789.html
Maybe if Leave do win we could slash taxes/duties on certain products and invent the reverse booze cruise. We could make a fortune and save the NHS shedloads of money.0 -
If GDP is basically a measure of spending and we are currently spending too much and saving too little them mightn't the current GDP numbers be presenting a false picture of the true strength of the economy? If we need to improve the current account we could try saving more (or borrowing less) though that presumably would choke off growth. In the long run surely the only answer is selling more things to the rest of the world so we can afford to buy all the things from the rest of the world that we want.0
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Surely, the point is that a candid friend has given his opinion. I don't think that Obama's opinion, by itself, will make that much difference. That more and more rational, sensible people sat that they think Leave is a BAD IDEA the more it will make people think that people like Johnson, Farage and Galloway are just in it for personal advantage, and do NOT have the UK's interests at heart.TCPoliticalBetting said:
OK - just anecdotal but some of today's sample were volunteering their negative views before the words "Obama" or "President" were mentioned. Sample was mainly 60+ age and ABs.Richard_Tyndall said:
So if that is the case why do only 28% agree with his intervention. That means a hell of lit of Remainders and undecideds don't care about it. Not exactly a roaring success.rcs1000 said:
The 41% are the same 41% who would have voted Out.Plato_Says said:
And yes, I do realise that there are some sensible people advocating Leave. There just aren't that many of them!
I can't see the range of options for my grandchildren OUTSIDE that I can if we stay IN. The latter seems to give the best of both worlds.0 -
BBC's coverage of the cup semi final is dreadful. Constant cutting away and completely missed the build up for Everton's two best chances. Poor commentators as well. Time they gave up football and left it those who know how, SKY and BT0
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Quite decent "pints" of beer here in Madeira for under £3 per pint. Which is cheaper than rural Essex.HurstLlama said:
Not surprised, Mr B. the price of booze and fags seem to have shot up on the continent in recent years. We seem to be being driven to the ghastly situation of the Scandinavian countries. A fearful prospect.Alanbrooke said:
topping up social security payments it seems. Free food means more money to spend on other thingsFrancisUrquhart said:
What do they give as a reason? Here it is overwhelming down to delays / changes in people benefit payments, rather than not enough benefits.Alanbrooke said:Apparently 1.5 million Germans use food banks
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/arm-und-reich/lebensmittel-fuer-beduerftige-deutschlands-grosse-tafelrunde-14182789.html
Maybe if Leave do win we could slash taxes/duties on certain products and invent the reverse booze cruise. We could make a fortune and save the NHS shedloads of money.0 -
That child exudes eerie authority and dignity, Obama and his father seem supplicants.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
Main market now following the bands market.
Remain 1.41
Leave 3.35
Pretty obvious what the money thinks the impact of the last 48 hours has been.0 -
True is a very strong word in the current context. This whole referendum is on the basis of "my flim flam, half-truths, lies and handwaving are better than your flim flam, half-truths, lies and handwaving".foxinsoxuk said:
Sometimes the truth makes people annoyed/angry.alex. said:Considering the press today it's hardly surprising that significant numbers are claiming to be annoyed/angered by Obama's intervention. What ultimately matters though is what he said, and what he said doesn't help Leave one bit.
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The EU will either have torn itself apart or be a single country by the time our grandchildren are of an age to make decisions for themselves. Not the greatest of gifts to bequeath them.OldKingCole said:
Surely, the point is that a candid friend has given his opinion. I don't think that Obama's opinion, by itself, will make that much difference. That more and more rational, sensible people sat that they think Leave is a BAD IDEA the more it will make people think that people like Johnson, Farage and Galloway are just in it for personal advantage, and do NOT have the UK's interests at heart.TCPoliticalBetting said:
OK - just anecdotal but some of today's sample were volunteering their negative views before the words "Obama" or "President" were mentioned. Sample was mainly 60+ age and ABs.Richard_Tyndall said:
So if that is the case why do only 28% agree with his intervention. That means a hell of lit of Remainders and undecideds don't care about it. Not exactly a roaring success.rcs1000 said:
The 41% are the same 41% who would have voted Out.Plato_Says said:
And yes, I do realise that there are some sensible people advocating Leave. There just aren't that many of them!
I can't see the range of options for my grandchildren OUTSIDE that I can if we stay IN. The latter seems to give the best of both worlds.0 -
That doesn't necessarily mean that the money is right though. Much water is yet to flow under the bridge.MikeL said:Main market now following the bands market.
Remain 1.41
Leave 3.35
Pretty obvious what the money thinks the impact of the last 48 hours has been.
Just a few days ago, the betting markets seemed to be be indicating that Trump was seriously on the slide yet today he looks almost home and hosed.0 -
"Would one please urinate forth." Would surely be more fitting.OldKingCole said:
I would hope that young George's nursery school discourages the use of phrases like "piss off". Time for that when he gets to junior school.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
One's doesn't usually have to queue at a male urinal. Unless it's at football match.Richard_Tyndall said:
"Would one please urinate forth." Would surely be more fitting.OldKingCole said:
I would hope that young George's nursery school discourages the use of phrases like "piss off". Time for that when he gets to junior school.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
Back of the queue for you sir.:-)OldKingCole said:
One's doesn't usually have to queue at a male urinal. Unless it's at football match.Richard_Tyndall said:
"Would one please urinate forth." Would surely be more fitting.OldKingCole said:
I would hope that young George's nursery school discourages the use of phrases like "piss off". Time for that when he gets to junior school.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
Two of my grandchildren will be voting in June.Richard_Tyndall said:
The EU will either have torn itself apart or be a single country by the time our grandchildren are of an age to make decisions for themselves. Not the greatest of gifts to bequeath them.OldKingCole said:
Surely, the point is that a candid friend has given his opinion. I don't think that Obama's opinion, by itself, will make that much difference. That more and more rational, sensible people sat that they think Leave is a BAD IDEA the more it will make people think that people like Johnson, Farage and Galloway are just in it for personal advantage, and do NOT have the UK's interests at heart.TCPoliticalBetting said:
OK - just anecdotal but some of today's sample were volunteering their negative views before the words "Obama" or "President" were mentioned. Sample was mainly 60+ age and ABs.Richard_Tyndall said:
So if that is the case why do only 28% agree with his intervention. That means a hell of lit of Remainders and undecideds don't care about it. Not exactly a roaring success.rcs1000 said:
The 41% are the same 41% who would have voted Out.Plato_Says said:
And yes, I do realise that there are some sensible people advocating Leave. There just aren't that many of them!
I can't see the range of options for my grandchildren OUTSIDE that I can if we stay IN. The latter seems to give the best of both worlds.
Remain, I understand.0 -
Not a good idea for an old man!Richard_Tyndall said:
Back of the queue for you sir.:-)OldKingCole said:
One's doesn't usually have to queue at a male urinal. Unless it's at football match.Richard_Tyndall said:
"Would one please urinate forth." Would surely be more fitting.OldKingCole said:
I would hope that young George's nursery school discourages the use of phrases like "piss off". Time for that when he gets to junior school.FrancisUrquhart said:0 -
Clearly you are of a different generation. My children are still well away from either voting age or producing grandchildren (I hope!!!)OldKingCole said:
Two of my grandchildren will be voting in June.Richard_Tyndall said:
The EU will either have torn itself apart or be a single country by the time our grandchildren are of an age to make decisions for themselves. Not the greatest of gifts to bequeath them.OldKingCole said:
Surely, the point is that a candid friend has given his opinion. I don't think that Obama's opinion, by itself, will make that much difference. That more and more rational, sensible people sat that they think Leave is a BAD IDEA the more it will make people think that people like Johnson, Farage and Galloway are just in it for personal advantage, and do NOT have the UK's interests at heart.TCPoliticalBetting said:
OK - just anecdotal but some of today's sample were volunteering their negative views before the words "Obama" or "President" were mentioned. Sample was mainly 60+ age and ABs.Richard_Tyndall said:
So if that is the case why do only 28% agree with his intervention. That means a hell of lit of Remainders and undecideds don't care about it. Not exactly a roaring success.rcs1000 said:
The 41% are the same 41% who would have voted Out.Plato_Says said:
And yes, I do realise that there are some sensible people advocating Leave. There just aren't that many of them!
I can't see the range of options for my grandchildren OUTSIDE that I can if we stay IN. The latter seems to give the best of both worlds.
Remain, I understand.0 -
The BT coverage is dreadful, the commentators and pundits are beyond awful.Big_G_NorthWales said:BBC's coverage of the cup semi final is dreadful. Constant cutting away and completely missed the build up for Everton's two best chances. Poor commentators as well. Time they gave up football and left it those who know how, SKY and BT
They should just leave it all to Sky, who I agree are brilliant at both football and cricket.0 -
I was in Starbucks earlier.TCPoliticalBetting said:And a British PM (who I like) stood there and smirked while Obama insulted Britain.
I have never been so INSULTED!
They served other people (who were there first) before me!
Some of them may even have been foreign. I should vote to leave the Common Market forthwith.0 -
Indeed; I seem to approaching Jack W's seniority. Oldest grandchild is 26, youngest 2.Richard_Tyndall said:
Clearly you are of a different generation. My children are still well away from either voting age or producing grandchildren (I hope!!!)OldKingCole said:
Two of my grandchildren will be voting in June.Richard_Tyndall said:
The EU will either have torn itself apart or be a single country by the time our grandchildren are of an age to make decisions for themselves. Not the greatest of gifts to bequeath them.OldKingCole said:
Surely, the point is that a candid friend has given his opinion. I don't think that Obama's opinion, by itself, will make that much difference. That more and more rational, sensible people sat that they think Leave is a BAD IDEA the more it will make people think that people like Johnson, Farage and Galloway are just in it for personal advantage, and do NOT have the UK's interests at heart.TCPoliticalBetting said:
OK - just anecdotal but some of today's sample were volunteering their negative views before the words "Obama" or "President" were mentioned. Sample was mainly 60+ age and ABs.Richard_Tyndall said:
So if that is the case why do only 28% agree with his intervention. That means a hell of lit of Remainders and undecideds don't care about it. Not exactly a roaring success.rcs1000 said:
The 41% are the same 41% who would have voted Out.Plato_Says said:
And yes, I do realise that there are some sensible people advocating Leave. There just aren't that many of them!
I can't see the range of options for my grandchildren OUTSIDE that I can if we stay IN. The latter seems to give the best of both worlds.
Remain, I understand.0 -
Here's the posh boys of Downing St. "£|$%^&*()! up the NHS - An NHS they probably never have to use because their fabulous wealth buys them health care most of the "peasants" can only dream of...Plato_Says said:Makeshift camps will be set up to help the sick if Accident & Emergency departments cannot cope with the first ever full walk-out by junior doctors next week. Hospitals have cancelled more than 125,000 operations and appointments as health officials warned that the service is facing “an unprecedented situation during a time of heightened risk”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/23/makeshift-nhs-camps-set-up-to-cope-with-casualties-during-strike/0 -
Oh good the old "you can only be a patriot if you support Brexit" line again.Theuniondivvie said:I'd been wondering why there's been a recent dearth of regurgitated tweets from Iain Martin by his number one fan.
https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/723862570139017216
https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/7238636706111692800 -
But what is the point if animals who have been exceptionally poorly husbanded are allowed simultaneously to flood the market. Animals would still suffer, shit food would still enter the food chain, and the only net change would be to increase the difficulties for Europe's farmers, and offshore more food production.foxinsoxuk said:
I would also be keen that the UK continues to push for higher standards of animal husbandry in the EU, via our continued membership.NickPalmer said:
I agree on the whole, though it's not true of animal policy in general - for instance, there is much more public scrutiny and challenge of animal experiments in Sweden than Britain, and one of the most controversial projects in primate research moved to Britain after being banned in Berlin. I suspect that farmers are a much less powerful lobby in Britain than experimenters, while the opposite is true in, say, France.Richard_Tyndall said:
It is an utterly idiotic statement by Foxinsox anyway given that UK animal husbandry standards were significantly higher than those on the continent. Animal crating, forced feeding, battery farming and the rules governing the transport of animals are all subject to far, far higher control and standards in the UK - or indeed outright banned - compared to the continent.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT
So to clarify, you are happy that British farmers are forced to observe minimum standards, but you are also happy that inferior food products that fall *well* below that standard can be imported and compete without labelling.foxinsoxuk said:
I am happy that there is some regulation of animal husbandry to a minimal standard. I would be happier if those standards were far higher, but am quite able to apply those standards in my own life. I do this mostly by eating less meat, and am vegetarian most days (very affordable in the UK).
Obesity is very much a class issue, it would serve poor people as much as anyone else to eat less food and be more selective in what they eat.
Unless born of a simple malevolence toward British food production, how do you justify this position?0 -
I thought Obama was doing what Cameron wanted and what he told him to say.so surely Obama should caddyanother_richard said:
Is Cameron being the caddy ?Sandpit said:Here's the photo we've all been waiting for!!!
https://twitter.com/DailyMailUK/status/7239008408058388480 -
I disagree some of the pundits are good on BT and the commentators.nigel4england said:
The BT coverage is dreadful, the commentators and pundits are beyond awful.Big_G_NorthWales said:BBC's coverage of the cup semi final is dreadful. Constant cutting away and completely missed the build up for Everton's two best chances. Poor commentators as well. Time they gave up football and left it those who know how, SKY and BT
They should just leave it all to Sky, who I agree are brilliant at both football and cricket.
Anyways it is good Sky has some real competion at last, a monopoly is never good especially for prices.0 -
I thought that it was in case of BrexitPlato_Says said:Makeshift camps will be set up to help the sick if Accident & Emergency departments cannot cope with the first ever full walk-out by junior doctors next week. Hospitals have cancelled more than 125,000 operations and appointments as health officials warned that the service is facing “an unprecedented situation during a time of heightened risk”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/23/makeshift-nhs-camps-set-up-to-cope-with-casualties-during-strike/0 -
That is the status quo.Luckyguy1983 said:
But what is the point if animals who have been exceptionally poorly husbanded are allowed simultaneously to flood the market. Animals would still suffer, shit food would still enter the food chain, and the only net change would be to increase the difficulties for Europe's farmers, and offshore more food production.foxinsoxuk said:
I would also be keen that the UK continues to push for higher standards of animal husbandry in the EU, via our continued membership.NickPalmer said:
I agree on the whole, though it's not true of animal policy in general - for instance, there is much more public scrutiny and challenge of animal experiments in Sweden than Britain, and one of the most controversial projects in primate research moved to Britain after being banned in Berlin. I suspect that farmers are a much less powerful lobby in Britain than experimenters, while the opposite is true in, say, France.Richard_Tyndall said:
It is an utterly idiotic statement by Foxinsox anyway given that UK animal husbandry standards were significantly higher than those on the continent. Animal crating, forced feeding, battery farming and the rules governing the transport of animals are all subject to far, far higher control and standards in the UK - or indeed outright banned - compared to the continent.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT
So to clarify, you are happy that British farmers are forced to observe minimum standards, but you are also happy that inferior food products that fall *well* below that standard can be imported and compete without labelling.foxinsoxuk said:
I am happy that there is some regulation of animal husbandry to a minimal standard. I would be happier if those standards were far higher, but am quite able to apply those standards in my own life. I do this mostly by eating less meat, and am vegetarian most days (very affordable in the UK).
Obesity is very much a class issue, it would serve poor people as much as anyone else to eat less food and be more selective in what they eat.
Unless born of a simple malevolence toward British food production, how do you justify this position?0 -
And once again the sadly deranged Scott misses the point. There is no queue - except in your head and Obama's threats.Scott_P said:
I was in Starbucks earlier.TCPoliticalBetting said:And a British PM (who I like) stood there and smirked while Obama insulted Britain.
I have never been so INSULTED!
They served other people (who were there first) before me!
Some of them may even have been foreign. I should vote to leave the Common Market forthwith.
I do sometimes wonder how you manage to tie your own shoelaces in the morning.0 -
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/9067624/David-Camerons-late-son-Ivan-dragged-into-NHS-debate.htmlGIN1138 said:
Here's the posh boys of Downing St. "£|$%^&*()! up the NHS - An NHS they probably never have to use because their fabulous wealth buys them health care most of the "peasants" can only dream of...Plato_Says said:Makeshift camps will be set up to help the sick if Accident & Emergency departments cannot cope with the first ever full walk-out by junior doctors next week. Hospitals have cancelled more than 125,000 operations and appointments as health officials warned that the service is facing “an unprecedented situation during a time of heightened risk”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/23/makeshift-nhs-camps-set-up-to-cope-with-casualties-during-strike/0 -
Ahh in Starbucks. Avoiding your taxes then I see. Terrible.....Scott_P said:
I was in Starbucks earlier.TCPoliticalBetting said:And a British PM (who I like) stood there and smirked while Obama insulted Britain.
I have never been so INSULTED!
They served other people (who were there first) before me!
Some of them may even have been foreign. I should vote to leave the Common Market forthwith.0 -
Forgive me, I am sceptical of Reform when unadorned with actions.
Reform good, Eurocrats bad. Not difficult so far, but once one lists some actual thing that might be done, one can start to see why it mightn't happen.0 -
President Obama’s call for British voters not to pull out of the European Union is an act of hypocrisy so blatant, it’s breathtaking.
http://nypost.com/2016/04/22/obamas-lecture-to-brits-is-absurdly-hypocritical/?utm_content=buffer47c1e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer0 -
Alex Salmond's St George's Day tweet is a masterpiece of Alex Salmondery.0
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You are arguing in favour of TTIP, which threatens to allow in foods currently banned on safety grounds, as we already discussed. So it isn't the status quo, it's the status quo on steroids (quite literally in many cases).foxinsoxuk said:
That is the status quo.Luckyguy1983 said:
But what is the point if animals who have been exceptionally poorly husbanded are allowed simultaneously to flood the market. Animals would still suffer, shit food would still enter the food chain, and the only net change would be to increase the difficulties for Europe's farmers, and offshore more food production.foxinsoxuk said:
I would also be keen that the UK continues to push for higher standards of animal husbandry in the EU, via our continued membership.NickPalmer said:
I agree on the whole, though it's not true of animal policy in general - for instance, there is much more public scrutiny and challenge of animal experiments in Sweden than Britain, and one of the most controversial projects in primate research moved to Britain after being banned in Berlin. I suspect that farmers are a much less powerful lobby in Britain than experimenters, while the opposite is true in, say, France.Richard_Tyndall said:
It is an utterly idiotic statement by Foxinsox anyway given that UK animal husbandry standards were significantly higher than those on the continent. Animal crating, forced feeding, battery farming and the rules governing the transport of animals are all subject to far, far higher control and standards in the UK - or indeed outright banned - compared to the continent.Luckyguy1983 said:FPT
So to clarify, you are happy that British farmers are forced to observe minimum standards, but you are also happy that inferior food products that fall *well* below that standard can be imported and compete without labelling.foxinsoxuk said:
I am happy that there is some regulation of animal husbandry to a minimal standard. I would be happier if those standards were far higher, but am quite able to apply those standards in my own life. I do this mostly by eating less meat, and am vegetarian most days (very affordable in the UK).
Obesity is very much a class issue, it would serve poor people as much as anyone else to eat less food and be more selective in what they eat.
Unless born of a simple malevolence toward British food production, how do you justify this position?
So why are you arguing for Europe to allow a flood of foreign 'suicide by food' as you call it, but calling upon the UK to work with the EU to enforce higher standards on Europe's farmers?0 -
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Well, that's just a moan that he doesn't tug the forelock to Likud.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:President Obama’s call for British voters not to pull out of the European Union is an act of hypocrisy so blatant, it’s breathtaking.
http://nypost.com/2016/04/22/obamas-lecture-to-brits-is-absurdly-hypocritical/?utm_content=buffer47c1e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
If part of the large North American continental federation called the USA wanted to secede, he'd be unhappy too.
Same with someone wanting to leave NAFTA be it Trump or some future Canadians/Mexicans.
So why're some in Britain expecting to be treated like the world's special snowflake?0 -
Is this even English?EPG said:
Well, that's just a moan that he doesn't tug the forelock to Likud.Hertsmere_Pubgoer said:President Obama’s call for British voters not to pull out of the European Union is an act of hypocrisy so blatant, it’s breathtaking.
http://nypost.com/2016/04/22/obamas-lecture-to-brits-is-absurdly-hypocritical/?utm_content=buffer47c1e&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer
If part of the large North American continental federation called the USA wanted to secede, he'd be unhappy too.
Same with someone wanting to leave NAFTA be it Trump or some future Canadians/Mexicans.
So why're some in Britain expecting to be treated like the world's special snowflake?0 -
We know you're telling porkies, since that would involve leaving your keyboard.Scott_P said:
I was in Starbucks earlier.TCPoliticalBetting said:And a British PM (who I like) stood there and smirked while Obama insulted Britain.
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He's just practising for the Donald.TheScreamingEagles said:Corbyn
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Out of interest, do the junior doctors get paid while they are on strike?0
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Don't be foolish. The government of the United States isn't capable of negotiating with the UK and the EU at the same time. It is not like they have just negotiated TPP and TTIP at the same time, for example.Richard_Tyndall said:
And once again the sadly deranged Scott misses the point. There is no queue - except in your head and Obama's threats.Scott_P said:
I was in Starbucks earlier.TCPoliticalBetting said:And a British PM (who I like) stood there and smirked while Obama insulted Britain.
I have never been so INSULTED!
They served other people (who were there first) before me!
Some of them may even have been foreign. I should vote to leave the Common Market forthwith.
I do sometimes wonder how you manage to tie your own shoelaces in the morning.0 -
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You are the ones gleeful about a U.S. President telling the UK what is good for it, or else. Perhaps there is a patriotic case for Remain, but the actions of people that actually campaigning for it have shown time and time again they enjoy the UK being put down.OllyT said:
Oh good the old "you can only be a patriot if you support Brexit" line again.Theuniondivvie said:I'd been wondering why there's been a recent dearth of regurgitated tweets from Iain Martin by his number one fan.
https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/723862570139017216
https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/7238636706111692800 -
Not unless they're moonlighting.Fernando said:Out of interest, do the junior doctors get paid while they are on strike?
0 -
Isn't the point about Obama's 'queue' threat that he has no power to give it? We're only a very few months away from having a new president. We need to know where Trump or Clinton stand on this. I suspect they will be much more open to being helpful to the UK whichever choice we make on the 23rd June.0
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Obama will be 100% more open to it on 24 June, if that's what the UK decides.Patrick said:Isn't the point about Obama's 'queue' threat that he has no power to give it? We're only a very few months away from having a new president. We need to know where Trump or Clinton stand on this. I suspect they will be much more open to being helpful to the UK whichever choice we make on the 23rd June.
0 -
Hillary Clinton is no fan of Brexit.Patrick said:Isn't the point about Obama's 'queue' threat that he has no power to give it? We're only a very few months away from having a new president. We need to know where Trump or Clinton stand on this. I suspect they will be much more open to being helpful to the UK whichever choice we make on the 23rd June.
0 -
So the BBC leads on Obama urging people to reject cynicism. And yet he has just cynically manipulated our views (or at least attempted to do so).Patrick said:Isn't the point about Obama's 'queue' threat that he has no power to give it? We're only a very few months away from having a new president. We need to know where Trump or Clinton stand on this. I suspect they will be much more open to being helpful to the UK whichever choice we make on the 23rd June.
He really has lost it.
0 -
Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.0
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She may not be a fan but she is more the traditional type of Democrat that values the US's British roots and our common heritage. She will value our alliance whatever we do. Unlike the haughty Obama.TheScreamingEagles said:
Hillary Clinton is no fan of Brexit.Patrick said:Isn't the point about Obama's 'queue' threat that he has no power to give it? We're only a very few months away from having a new president. We need to know where Trump or Clinton stand on this. I suspect they will be much more open to being helpful to the UK whichever choice we make on the 23rd June.
0 -
Extant letters from Derby reveal an unusual spelling of words identical to those used in the Shakespeare plays. Some words and phrases that the OED confidently ascribes to "Shakespeare" are found in Derby's letters. Other analysis shows a preponderance of Northern English dialectical words in the plays, not found in Warwickshire. There is a distinct Lancastrian political bias in the history plays, and members of the Stanley and Clifford families are given exaggerated prominence in the founding of the Tudor dynasty.
Hamlet, thought to be the most revealing and personal work of the author, parallels the position of Derby (as possible King of England) in the 1590s. Derby, James VI of Scotland and Elizabeth I were all cousins. Hamlet dithers about seizing the throne, and seems more interested in studying, philosophizing, and creating plays than the state of Denmark. He knows deep down he does not want to be King. The ultimate successor is Fortinbras, a prince from a neighbouring northern kingdom...
When the First Folio appeared it was dedicated to "that incomparable pair of brethren" the Earls of Pembroke and Montgomery (Derby's brother-in-law).
Five years later, when the Earl of Derby retired to his home in Chester, and passed his estates to his son, the two Earls were named as his trustees...
0 -
If the EU is so wonderful, why doesn't Obama sign up his own USA to it?Richard_Nabavi said:Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.
0 -
If you go to Chelsea Old Church, you will find the following monument, dated 1633RodCrosby said:
Perhaps the true author was still alive?
"To say a Stanley lies here, that alone
were epitaph enough; no brass, no stone,
no glorious tomb, no monumental hearse,
no guilded trophy or lamp-laboured verse
can dignify his grave or set it forth
like the immortal fame of his own worth.
Then, reader, fix not here, but quit this room
and fly to Abraham's bosom - there's his tomb.
There rests his soul, and for his other parts
they are embalmed and lodged in good men's hearts.
A braver monument of stone or lime,
no art can raise, for this shall outlast time."
It is on the tomb of Robert Stanley, son of William Stanley, the Sixth Earl of Derby (1561-1642).
William Stanley was educated at St. John's College, Oxford and enrolled at both Grays Inn and Lincoln's Inn. His family was the most powerful in the north of England, "Kings of Lancashire" and legally also the Kings of the Isle of Man.
In his twenties he spent three years travelling Europe, visiting almost every place that appears in the "Shakespeare" plays. He was immensely wealthy and fanatical about the theatre, and actually owned the theatre troupes that put on the "Shakespeare" plays, Lord Strange's Men, Derby's Men.
William was the younger brother of Ferdinando, the Fifth Earl, who died suddenly and mysteriously in 1594, suspected of being murdered. Ferdinando was heir-presumptive to the English Throne, via his mother Margaret Clifford, under the will of Henry VIII.
William, thought to be sympathetic to Catholicism, was then touted as a possible successor by continental Catholics. Two letters from a Jesuit spy were discovered in the national archives in the 19th Century. The spy reported ruefully to his masters that the "the Earl of Derby is busied only in penning comedies for the common players..." One might ask, where are these plays?0 -
Naught but Europhile propaganda!TheScreamingEagles said:0 -
Probably not, but if we vote for it, she'll adapt to it.TheScreamingEagles said:
Hillary Clinton is no fan of Brexit.Patrick said:Isn't the point about Obama's 'queue' threat that he has no power to give it? We're only a very few months away from having a new president. We need to know where Trump or Clinton stand on this. I suspect they will be much more open to being helpful to the UK whichever choice we make on the 23rd June.
0 -
It is incredible how quickly Cameron's star has fallen. Just a few months ago he was a hero who led the Conservatives to a majority. Now he has revealed himself as such a Europhiles he will charge the nation to print out leaflets on its behalf, and smirk when the US President is treating us like a poodle. What a sad decline for the leader of a once great party.0
-
Did Obama tweet about his meeting with 'The Jeremy Corbyn'?
What a sad sack.0 -
Richard Nabavi checks in. Realises they still haven't forgotten his mistake over the £1.7 billion he said wouldn't be paid in full. Scurries away again.Richard_Nabavi said:Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.
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The Clintons have a history of pissing of UK Prime Ministers when we were dealing with some of European cousins.Layne said:
She may not be a fan but she is more the traditional type of Democrat that values the US's British roots and our common heritage. She will value our alliance whatever we do. Unlike the haughty Obama.TheScreamingEagles said:
Hillary Clinton is no fan of Brexit.Patrick said:Isn't the point about Obama's 'queue' threat that he has no power to give it? We're only a very few months away from having a new president. We need to know where Trump or Clinton stand on this. I suspect they will be much more open to being helpful to the UK whichever choice we make on the 23rd June.
0 -
Some people are proud of this country and do not take it lightly when it is insulted. You are apparently not such a person.Richard_Nabavi said:Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.
0 -
Odd, some polls have Cameron and his party polling higher than they did in 2015.Layne said:It is incredible how quickly Cameron's star has fallen. Just a few months ago he was a hero who led the Conservatives to a majority. Now he has revealed himself as such a Europhiles he will charge the nation to print out leaflets on its behalf, and smirk when the US President is treating us like a poodle. What a sad decline for the leader of a once great party.
0 -
Just a stone's throw from Crosby Hall.RodCrosby said:
If you go to Chelsea Old Church, you will find the following monument, dated 1633RodCrosby said:
Perhaps the true author was still alive?
"To say a Stanley lies here, that alone
were epitaph enough; no brass, no stone,
no glorious tomb, no monumental hearse,
no guilded trophy or lamp-laboured verse
can dignify his grave or set it forth
like the immortal fame of his own worth.
Then, reader, fix not here, but quit this room
and fly to Abraham's bosom - there's his tomb.
There rests his soul, and for his other parts
they are embalmed and lodged in good men's hearts.
A braver monument of stone or lime,
no art can raise, for this shall outlast time."
It is on the tomb of Robert Stanley, son of William Stanley, the Sixth Earl of Derby (1561-1642).
William Stanley was educated at St. John's College, Oxford and enrolled at both Grays Inn and Lincoln's Inn. His family was the most powerful in the north of England, "Kings of Lancashire" and legally also the Kings of the Isle of Man.
In his twenties he spent three years travelling Europe, visiting almost every place that appears in the "Shakespeare" plays. He was immensely wealthy and fanatical about the theatre, and actually owned the theatre troupes that put on the "Shakespeare" plays, Lord Strange's Men, Derby's Men.
William was the younger brother of Ferdinando, the Fifth Earl, who died suddenly and mysteriously in 1594, suspected of being murdered. Ferdinando was heir-presumptive to the English Throne, via his mother Margaret Clifford, under the will of Henry VIII.
William, thought to be sympathetic to Catholicism, was then touted as a possible successor by continental Catholics. Two letters from a Jesuit spy were discovered in the national archives in the 19th Century. The spy reported ruefully to his masters that the "the Earl of Derby is busied only in penning comedies for the common players..." One might ask, where are these plays?
Coincidence?
0 -
Cameron really is the heir to Blair. Rampant Europhilia, dodgy dossiers on matters of national importance, wasteful with taxpayer funds, and a poodle to the American President too. It is only a matter of time before he sells out his party to abandon the immigration pledge too. Just wait until he removes power from association chairmen to install his apparatchiks and the transformation of the Tories into New Labour Mark 2.0 will be complete.0
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My hope now is that history will view him in the same way as Blair. For me this is a considerable change from my fervent desire that he conduct the referendum in a way that allowed him to survive.Layne said:Cameron really is the heir to Blair. Rampant Europhilia, dodgy dossiers on matters of national importance, wasteful with taxpayer funds, and a poodle to the American President too. It is only a matter of time before he sells out his party to abandon the immigration pledge too. Just wait until he removes power from association chairmen to install his apparatchiks and the transformation of the Tories into New Labour Mark 2.0 will be complete.
I see now that this was a stupid naive position to hold.0 -
That's a big move towards Remain from the money in the last 48 hours.
Some value in the 12/5 (3.4) now available for Leave, on the basis that it should get tighter at some point in the next two months?
For anyone who wants better returns than a savings account, there's £2800 available with Betfair at 1.01 on there being a referendum during this Parliament!
<55% turnout at 7.2 also some value? Does anyone so far think Labour are close to getting their vote out for Remain?0 -
I don't think he has ever responded to the hundreds of posts mentioning the £1.7bn bill.Richard_Tyndall said:
Richard Nabavi checks in. Realises they still haven't forgotten his mistake over the £1.7 billion he said wouldn't be paid in full. Scurries away again.Richard_Nabavi said:Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.
0 -
"Back of the Queue" are apparently trigger words.
PB is no longer a safe space...0 -
Not for the profoundly ignorant like yourself.Scott_P said:"Back of the Queue" are apparently trigger words.
PB is no longer a safe space...0 -
While I disagree with Europhilia, centralisation and authoritarianism, the saddest part of how the Cameroons copy Blair is the willingness to do anything to get their views enacted: threatening businessmen, spending taxpayer money on political campaigns, publishing obviously erroneous statistics to con low information voters. It just lowers and lowers the idea of principled politics to the point where people don't even expect it at all. The Tories have to make sure they fight hard in the next leadership election to make sure the Blue Blairites don't entirely remake their party.Richard_Tyndall said:
My hope now is that history will view him in the same way as Blair. For me this is a considerable change from my fervent desire that he conduct the referendum in a way that allowed him to survive.Layne said:Cameron really is the heir to Blair. Rampant Europhilia, dodgy dossiers on matters of national importance, wasteful with taxpayer funds, and a poodle to the American President too. It is only a matter of time before he sells out his party to abandon the immigration pledge too. Just wait until he removes power from association chairmen to install his apparatchiks and the transformation of the Tories into New Labour Mark 2.0 will be complete.
I see now that this was a stupid naive position to hold.0 -
The most serious problem about EU membership is that countries are taxed on turnover, not profit.0
-
The Stanleys' main home was at Lathom, about 10 miles away. It was sacked by the Parliamentarians during the Civil War, when many of the Earl's papers were presumably destroyed. The family moved to their secondary home at Knowsley, famous in its day for the putting on of plays, including, of course, "Shakespeare's".geoffw said:
Just a stone's throw from Crosby Hall.RodCrosby said:
If you go to Chelsea Old Church, you will find the following monument, dated 1633RodCrosby said:
Perhaps the true author was still alive?
"To say a Stanley lies here, that alone
were epitaph enough; no brass, no stone,
no glorious tomb, no monumental hearse,
no guilded trophy or lamp-laboured verse
can dignify his grave or set it forth
like the immortal fame of his own worth.
Then, reader, fix not here, but quit this room
and fly to Abraham's bosom - there's his tomb.
There rests his soul, and for his other parts
they are embalmed and lodged in good men's hearts.
A braver monument of stone or lime,
no art can raise, for this shall outlast time."
It is on the tomb of Robert Stanley, son of William Stanley, the Sixth Earl of Derby (1561-1642).
William Stanley was educated at St. John's College, Oxford and enrolled at both Grays Inn and Lincoln's Inn. His family was the most powerful in the north of England, "Kings of Lancashire" and legally also the Kings of the Isle of Man.
In his twenties he spent three years travelling Europe, visiting almost every place that appears in the "Shakespeare" plays. He was immensely wealthy and fanatical about the theatre, and actually owned the theatre troupes that put on the "Shakespeare" plays, Lord Strange's Men, Derby's Men.
William was the younger brother of Ferdinando, the Fifth Earl, who died suddenly and mysteriously in 1594, suspected of being murdered. Ferdinando was heir-presumptive to the English Throne, via his mother Margaret Clifford, under the will of Henry VIII.
William, thought to be sympathetic to Catholicism, was then touted as a possible successor by continental Catholics. Two letters from a Jesuit spy were discovered in the national archives in the 19th Century. The spy reported ruefully to his masters that the "the Earl of Derby is busied only in penning comedies for the common players..." One might ask, where are these plays?
Coincidence?0 -
Is that supposed to be an insult?Richard_Tyndall said:Not for the profoundly ignorant like yourself.
Nowhere near the same league as "go to the back of the queue"...0 -
Not really. Until 1908 Crosby Hall used to stand in Bishopsgate.geoffw said:
Just a stone's throw from Crosby Hall.RodCrosby said:
If you go to Chelsea Old Church, you will find the following monument, dated 1633RodCrosby said:
Perhaps the true author was still alive?
"To say a Stanley lies here, that alone
were epitaph enough; no brass, no stone,
no glorious tomb, no monumental hearse,
no guilded trophy or lamp-laboured verse
can dignify his grave or set it forth
like the immortal fame of his own worth.
Then, reader, fix not here, but quit this room
and fly to Abraham's bosom - there's his tomb.
There rests his soul, and for his other parts
they are embalmed and lodged in good men's hearts.
A braver monument of stone or lime,
no art can raise, for this shall outlast time."
It is on the tomb of Robert Stanley, son of William Stanley, the Sixth Earl of Derby (1561-1642).
William Stanley was educated at St. John's College, Oxford and enrolled at both Grays Inn and Lincoln's Inn. His family was the most powerful in the north of England, "Kings of Lancashire" and legally also the Kings of the Isle of Man.
In his twenties he spent three years travelling Europe, visiting almost every place that appears in the "Shakespeare" plays. He was immensely wealthy and fanatical about the theatre, and actually owned the theatre troupes that put on the "Shakespeare" plays, Lord Strange's Men, Derby's Men.
William was the younger brother of Ferdinando, the Fifth Earl, who died suddenly and mysteriously in 1594, suspected of being murdered. Ferdinando was heir-presumptive to the English Throne, via his mother Margaret Clifford, under the will of Henry VIII.
William, thought to be sympathetic to Catholicism, was then touted as a possible successor by continental Catholics. Two letters from a Jesuit spy were discovered in the national archives in the 19th Century. The spy reported ruefully to his masters that the "the Earl of Derby is busied only in penning comedies for the common players..." One might ask, where are these plays?
Coincidence?0 -
Open the borders for free movement ....... From Mexico.Sunil_Prasannan said:
If the EU is so wonderful, why doesn't Obama sign up his own USA to it?Richard_Nabavi said:Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.
Oh wait...0 -
Reality is insulting. Reality is harsh, cruel and uncaring. It will cripple you and put you in the ground regardless of virtue or vice. If you are lucky, you will die infirm half-blind: unlucky, in dreadful pain and fear. An adult copes with this: a child rails against it.Layne said:
Some people are proud of this country and do not take it lightly when it is insulted. You are apparently not such a person.Richard_Nabavi said:Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.
Obama told you a truth: a Britain post-Brexit would be deprioritised in favor of a larger EU. That will be true whether President Trump, Clinton, Cruz, Sanders, whoever, and will be true whether Russia, USA, China, whoever. Respect and attention come with power, not friendship, not culture, not history, just power: what can you do to me and what can you do for me?
Characterize it as an insult if you wish, declare your pride as you feel appropriate. But reality will not care one jot. Obama showed you what reality is: it will be hard0 -
Had he said get out no doubt your benign reaction would have been the sameRichard_Nabavi said:Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.
#likefeckitwouldhavebeen0 -
My mind is going to the scary visual place
Female Ted Cruz Lookalike Agrees To Do Porn For $10,000
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/ted-cruz-lookalike-porn_us_571aa703e4b0d4d3f72374670 -
Yes - Let's put the UK at the back of the queue for a trade agreement with the USA.viewcode said:
Reality is insulting. Reality is harsh, cruel and uncaring. It will cripple you and put you in the ground regardless of virtue or vice. If you are lucky, you will die infirm half-blind: unlucky, in dreadful pain and fear. An adult copes with this: a child rails against it.Layne said:
Some people are proud of this country and do not take it lightly when it is insulted. You are apparently not such a person.Richard_Nabavi said:Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.
Obama told you a truth: a Britain post-Brexit would be deprioritised in favor of a larger EU. That will be true whether President Trump, Clinton, Cruz, Sanders, whoever, and will be true whether Russia, USA, China, whoever. Respect and attention come with power, not friendship, not culture, not history, just power: what can you do to me and what can you do for me?
Characterize it as an insult if you wish, declare your pride as you feel appropriate. But reality will not care one jot. Obama showed you what reality is: it will be hard
Only: The USA is currently the NUMBER ONE UK EXPORT MARKET country - with no trade deal in place.0 -
You tell em, tiger. Throw rocks at the sea.weejonnie said:
Yes - Let's put the UK at the back of the queue for a trade agreement with the USA.viewcode said:
Reality is insulting. Reality is harsh, cruel and uncaring. It will cripple you and put you in the ground regardless of virtue or vice. If you are lucky, you will die infirm half-blind: unlucky, in dreadful pain and fear. An adult copes with this: a child rails against it.Layne said:
Some people are proud of this country and do not take it lightly when it is insulted. You are apparently not such a person.Richard_Nabavi said:Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.
Obama told you a truth: a Britain post-Brexit would be deprioritised in favor of a larger EU. That will be true whether President Trump, Clinton, Cruz, Sanders, whoever, and will be true whether Russia, USA, China, whoever. Respect and attention come with power, not friendship, not culture, not history, just power: what can you do to me and what can you do for me?
Characterize it as an insult if you wish, declare your pride as you feel appropriate. But reality will not care one jot. Obama showed you what reality is: it will be hard
Only: The USA is currently the NUMBER ONE UK EXPORT MARKET country - with no trade deal in place.0 -
I think Leave's position has moved from 'With Brexit, we'll get trade deals very easily' to 'With Brexit, we don't need trade deals'viewcode said:
You tell em, tiger. Throw rocks at the sea.weejonnie said:
Yes - Let's put the UK at the back of the queue for a trade agreement with the USA.viewcode said:
Reality is insulting. Reality is harsh, cruel and uncaring. It will cripple you and put you in the ground regardless of virtue or vice. If you are lucky, you will die infirm half-blind: unlucky, in dreadful pain and fear. An adult copes with this: a child rails against it.Layne said:
Some people are proud of this country and do not take it lightly when it is insulted. You are apparently not such a person.Richard_Nabavi said:Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.
Obama told you a truth: a Britain post-Brexit would be deprioritised in favor of a larger EU. That will be true whether President Trump, Clinton, Cruz, Sanders, whoever, and will be true whether Russia, USA, China, whoever. Respect and attention come with power, not friendship, not culture, not history, just power: what can you do to me and what can you do for me?
Characterize it as an insult if you wish, declare your pride as you feel appropriate. But reality will not care one jot. Obama showed you what reality is: it will be hard
Only: The USA is currently the NUMBER ONE UK EXPORT MARKET country - with no trade deal in place.0 -
Merely an observation of your mental faculties - or rather your lack of them. Mind you I suppose the fact you have actually written a comment is one up on simply reposting tweets as if that meant something. It is a shame, given how much you seem to admire Cameron, that you don't remember his comment about tweets. Indeed he could almost have been thinking of you when he made it.Scott_P said:
Is that supposed to be an insult?Richard_Tyndall said:Not for the profoundly ignorant like yourself.
Nowhere near the same league as "go to the back of the queue"...0 -
The biggest laugh or insult dependent on your POV is seeing all the lefties and others who have always had a huge distaste for America suddenly having a Damascene conversion. This referendum is setting up some interesting bedfellows of convenience if nothing else.Scott_P said:
Is that supposed to be an insult?Richard_Tyndall said:Not for the profoundly ignorant like yourself.
Nowhere near the same league as "go to the back of the queue"...0 -
No. Indeed they do not get paid if the strike covers any part of their shift, so if on a 0800- 2200 "long day" and the strike is 0800-1700 then they work 5 hours for the NHS for free.Fernando said:Out of interest, do the junior doctors get paid while they are on strike?
0 -
No he really didn't. No matter how much you might want to believe it what he gave us was not reality.viewcode said:
Reality is insulting. Reality is harsh, cruel and uncaring. It will cripple you and put you in the ground regardless of virtue or vice. If you are lucky, you will die infirm half-blind: unlucky, in dreadful pain and fear. An adult copes with this: a child rails against it.Layne said:
Some people are proud of this country and do not take it lightly when it is insulted. You are apparently not such a person.Richard_Nabavi said:Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.
Obama told you a truth: a Britain post-Brexit would be deprioritised in favor of a larger EU. That will be true whether President Trump, Clinton, Cruz, Sanders, whoever, and will be true whether Russia, USA, China, whoever. Respect and attention come with power, not friendship, not culture, not history, just power: what can you do to me and what can you do for me?
Characterize it as an insult if you wish, declare your pride as you feel appropriate. But reality will not care one jot. Obama showed you what reality is: it will be hard
0 -
No he just gave his opinion! He's hardly infallible.viewcode said:
Obama told you a truth:0 -
I think it is a matter of perception - REMAINers are trying to put forward the meme that if we don't have a specific trade deal then we can't trade. Nothing of course is further from the truth - so I feel it is my bounden duty, on St George's day, to slay this dragon.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think Leave's position has moved from 'With Brexit, we'll get trade deals very easily' to 'With Brexit, we don't need trade deals'viewcode said:
You tell em, tiger. Throw rocks at the sea.weejonnie said:
Yes - Let's put the UK at the back of the queue for a trade agreement with the USA.viewcode said:
Reality is insulting. Reality is harsh, cruel and uncaring. It will cripple you and put you in the ground regardless of virtue or vice. If you are lucky, you will die infirm half-blind: unlucky, in dreadful pain and fear. An adult copes with this: a child rails against it.Layne said:
Some people are proud of this country and do not take it lightly when it is insulted. You are apparently not such a person.Richard_Nabavi said:Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.
Obama told you a truth: a Britain post-Brexit would be deprioritised in favor of a larger EU. That will be true whether President Trump, Clinton, Cruz, Sanders, whoever, and will be true whether Russia, USA, China, whoever. Respect and attention come with power, not friendship, not culture, not history, just power: what can you do to me and what can you do for me?
Characterize it as an insult if you wish, declare your pride as you feel appropriate. But reality will not care one jot. Obama showed you what reality is: it will be hard
Only: The USA is currently the NUMBER ONE UK EXPORT MARKET country - with no trade deal in place.0 -
Yesterday (Friday) visited the 'Pool for the 3rd time, just to do Liverpool Central to Southport rail lineRodCrosby said:
The Stanleys' main home was at Lathom, about 10 miles away. It was sacked by the Parliamentarians during the Civil War, when many of the Earl's papers were presumably destroyed. The family moved to their secondary home at Knowsley, famous in its day for the putting on of plays, including, of course, "Shakespeare's".geoffw said:
Just a stone's throw from Crosby Hall.RodCrosby said:
If you go to Chelsea Old Church, you will find the following monument, dated 1633RodCrosby said:
Perhaps the true author was still alive?
"To say a Stanley lies here, that alone
were epitaph enough; no brass, no stone,
no glorious tomb, no monumental hearse,
no guilded trophy or lamp-laboured verse
can dignify his grave or set it forth
like the immortal fame of his own worth.
Then, reader, fix not here, but quit this room
and fly to Abraham's bosom - there's his tomb.
There rests his soul, and for his other parts
they are embalmed and lodged in good men's hearts.
A braver monument of stone or lime,
no art can raise, for this shall outlast time."
It is on the tomb of Robert Stanley, son of William Stanley, the Sixth Earl of Derby (1561-1642).
William Stanley was educated at St. John's College, Oxford and enrolled at both Grays Inn and Lincoln's Inn. His family was the most powerful in the north of England, "Kings of Lancashire" and legally also the Kings of the Isle of Man.
In his twenties he spent three years travelling Europe, visiting almost every place that appears in the "Shakespeare" plays. He was immensely wealthy and fanatical about the theatre, and actually owned the theatre troupes that put on the "Shakespeare" plays, Lord Strange's Men, Derby's Men.
William was the younger brother of Ferdinando, the Fifth Earl, who died suddenly and mysteriously in 1594, suspected of being murdered. Ferdinando was heir-presumptive to the English Throne, via his mother Margaret Clifford, under the will of Henry VIII.
William, thought to be sympathetic to Catholicism, was then touted as a possible successor by continental Catholics. Two letters from a Jesuit spy were discovered in the national archives in the 19th Century. The spy reported ruefully to his masters that the "the Earl of Derby is busied only in penning comedies for the common players..." One might ask, where are these plays?
Coincidence? 0 -
Turned to the Daft Side, young TSE has!TheScreamingEagles said:
I think Leave's position has moved from 'With Brexit, we'll get trade deals very easily' to 'With Brexit, we don't need trade deals'viewcode said:
You tell em, tiger. Throw rocks at the sea.weejonnie said:
Yes - Let's put the UK at the back of the queue for a trade agreement with the USA.viewcode said:
Reality is insulting. Reality is harsh, cruel and uncaring. It will cripple you and put you in the ground regardless of virtue or vice. If you are lucky, you will die infirm half-blind: unlucky, in dreadful pain and fear. An adult copes with this: a child rails against it.Layne said:
Some people are proud of this country and do not take it lightly when it is insulted. You are apparently not such a person.Richard_Nabavi said:Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.
Obama told you a truth: a Britain post-Brexit would be deprioritised in favor of a larger EU. That will be true whether President Trump, Clinton, Cruz, Sanders, whoever, and will be true whether Russia, USA, China, whoever. Respect and attention come with power, not friendship, not culture, not history, just power: what can you do to me and what can you do for me?
Characterize it as an insult if you wish, declare your pride as you feel appropriate. But reality will not care one jot. Obama showed you what reality is: it will be hard
Only: The USA is currently the NUMBER ONE UK EXPORT MARKET country - with no trade deal in place.0 -
Leave's position (and strength) was that it could promise all things: high growth, low inward migration, trade deals better, costs lower, more of everything good, less of everything bad, the penny and the bun, all wrapped up with a party hat. If Obama's intervention causes people to realise that reality just doesn't work like that, then it's all to the good.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think Leave's position has moved from 'With Brexit, we'll get trade deals very easily' to 'With Brexit, we don't need trade deals'viewcode said:
You tell em, tiger. Throw rocks at the sea.weejonnie said:
Yes - Let's put the UK at the back of the queue for a trade agreement with the USA.viewcode said:
Reality is insulting. Reality is harsh, cruel and uncaring. It will cripple you and put you in the ground regardless of virtue or vice. If you are lucky, you will die infirm half-blind: unlucky, in dreadful pain and fear. An adult copes with this: a child rails against it.Layne said:
Some people are proud of this country and do not take it lightly when it is insulted. You are apparently not such a person.Richard_Nabavi said:Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.
Obama told you a truth: a Britain post-Brexit would be deprioritised in favor of a larger EU. That will be true whether President Trump, Clinton, Cruz, Sanders, whoever, and will be true whether Russia, USA, China, whoever. Respect and attention come with power, not friendship, not culture, not history, just power: what can you do to me and what can you do for me?
Characterize it as an insult if you wish, declare your pride as you feel appropriate. But reality will not care one jot. Obama showed you what reality is: it will be hard
Only: The USA is currently the NUMBER ONE UK EXPORT MARKET country - with no trade deal in place.
0 -
He just gave his opinion, he's hardly infallible!viewcode said:
Leave's position (and strength) was that it could promise all things: high growth, low inward migration, trade deals better, costs lower, more of everything good, less of everything bad, the penny and the bun, all wrapped up with a party hat. If Obama's intervention causes people to realise that reality just doesn't work like that, then it's all to the good.TheScreamingEagles said:
I think Leave's position has moved from 'With Brexit, we'll get trade deals very easily' to 'With Brexit, we don't need trade deals'viewcode said:
You tell em, tiger. Throw rocks at the sea.weejonnie said:
Yes - Let's put the UK at the back of the queue for a trade agreement with the USA.viewcode said:
Reality is insulting. Reality is harsh, cruel and uncaring. It will cripple you and put you in the ground regardless of virtue or vice. If you are lucky, you will die infirm half-blind: unlucky, in dreadful pain and fear. An adult copes with this: a child rails against it.Layne said:
Some people are proud of this country and do not take it lightly when it is insulted. You are apparently not such a person.Richard_Nabavi said:Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.
Obama told you a truth: a Britain post-Brexit would be deprioritised in favor of a larger EU. That will be true whether President Trump, Clinton, Cruz, Sanders, whoever, and will be true whether Russia, USA, China, whoever. Respect and attention come with power, not friendship, not culture, not history, just power: what can you do to me and what can you do for me?
Characterize it as an insult if you wish, declare your pride as you feel appropriate. But reality will not care one jot. Obama showed you what reality is: it will be hard
Only: The USA is currently the NUMBER ONE UK EXPORT MARKET country - with no trade deal in place.0 -
Less camembert and wine before bedtime for you methinks. You're coming over as unhinged.viewcode said:
You tell em, tiger. Throw rocks at the sea.weejonnie said:
Yes - Let's put the UK at the back of the queue for a trade agreement with the USA.viewcode said:
Reality is insulting. Reality is harsh, cruel and uncaring. It will cripple you and put you in the ground regardless of virtue or vice. If you are lucky, you will die infirm half-blind: unlucky, in dreadful pain and fear. An adult copes with this: a child rails against it.Layne said:
Some people are proud of this country and do not take it lightly when it is insulted. You are apparently not such a person.Richard_Nabavi said:Checks in ... they are still whining about Obama ... checks out.
Obama told you a truth: a Britain post-Brexit would be deprioritised in favor of a larger EU. That will be true whether President Trump, Clinton, Cruz, Sanders, whoever, and will be true whether Russia, USA, China, whoever. Respect and attention come with power, not friendship, not culture, not history, just power: what can you do to me and what can you do for me?
Characterize it as an insult if you wish, declare your pride as you feel appropriate. But reality will not care one jot. Obama showed you what reality is: it will be hard
Only: The USA is currently the NUMBER ONE UK EXPORT MARKET country - with no trade deal in place.
The US will prioritise a trade deal with us if they think there's money in it for them. They'd prioritise a trade deal with Orpington if they thought there was money in it for them. That's all that needs to be said about Obama's words on this topic.0
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