Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
How can any snap poll provide an accurate response when only the politically engaged would have heard it
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
Presumably Sir K was cursing the Wayne Cuzon's case this morning. Will take up air time.
It is a bigger news story than Starmer’s speech tbf. A police offer users his badge or uniform to take ladies from the street, who compliantly go along with arrest is utterly chilling. It makes your whole stomach drop out, I can’t read or listen to it. 😢
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
How utterly horrific is that Sarah Everard news? Why would anyone, male or female, not resist arrest in the future on the back of this?
That case was 'arrest' by a single cop. Two of them (esp if one is female) is inherently safer, but not 100% [edit] if only on strict logic.
Just remember the police think NOT sacking this cop was a good idea.
Police officer caught on camera threatening to 'make something up' to arrest man allowed to keep job
Not always. when a friend committed suicide a few years back, the Cambridgeshire police who dealt with me were professional, polite and caring. It can't have been easy for them, and I sent a note of thanks to the police station.
A while later, I got a call back from a high-ranking officer thanking me for the note, and saying it was rare to get a thankyou note. Again, that was appreciated.
There are many great officers out there. I know a few, and some former senior ones, who are very able, even inspiring. The police are also very necessary.
But as an organisation they not only have some major problems, they are clearly massively resistant to genuinely acknowledging their problems and even more so to addressing them.
When people have the power they have, we cannot go easy on them and have to be very hard on any issues.
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
They are going hard for leave voters (not in that sense Leon).
It’s a difficult slogan for the Tories to rebut - how do they combat it, Brexit is working?
They just have to point to Sir Keir's attitude 2016-2019; refusal to accept the result, then determination to get an other referendum to which he was committed to Remain, no matter what
Leave was ALL about immigration, and Sir Keir is championing the New Labour regime which introduced the very thing that made the referendum possible, and the Leave win inevitable - don't see how that is courting Leavers, it's reminding them who's fault it was and that he thinks those at fault were the good guys
The people whoop whooping over his speech are committed Remainers!
Many PB Leavers dispute that immigration was the driver. They say it was about all sorts of other things such as cutting Brussels red tape and being "nimble" on foreign and trade policy.
Yes, "PB Leavers"!
Political debate is full of over complicated arguments, because the people who enjoy political debates enjoy complicated arguments to show off their debating prowess. But most people, 99.9% of the population, vote on the kind of gut instinct that political debaters hold in complete distain
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
How can any snap poll provide an accurate response when only the politically engaged would have heard it
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
Presumably Sir K was cursing the Wayne Cuzon's case this morning. Will take up air time.
It is a bigger news story than Starmer’s speech tbf. A police offer users his badge or uniform to take ladies from the street, who compliantly go along with arrest is utterly chilling. It makes your whole stomach drop out, I can’t read or listen to it. 😢
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
How utterly horrific is that Sarah Everard news? Why would anyone, male or female, not resist arrest in the future on the back of this?
The police have a credibility problem, for sure. But resisting arrest is almost certainly asking for trouble.
The “Wayne Couzens” defence ain’t gonna get you very far.
Really? How many prosecutions are there for the bare offence of resisting arrest, when it turns out there was no crime to be arrested for in the first place? If you don't know the answer to that, what becomes of your point?
Igloo statement: ""The current extreme price shock that we’re experiencing is one that few, if anyone, anticipated."
We'll probably all end up back with British Gas and British Gas renationalized... Back to the 70's. Hey we've got ABBA back so why not!
The fact that they didn't anticipate it, or hedge for it, shows why these funny sounding start-ups had the wrong model and why the regulator should be in the sh*t.
Not sure it's doing what it suggests but I've just walked past a "specialist geothermal drilling rig" doing its thing between 2 tower blocks in east leeds. .
I am more left wing than Starmer and I knew that when I voted for him. I always knew he would bring Labour back to the centre.
But the difference is that I am happy about that, I believe in Labour Governments in general. Labour was around long before Corbyn and will be around long after, for the priority is achieving one (albeit in the meantime I personally hope for a Hung Parliament so the Lib Dems can help to achieve PR)
Labour will never agree to PR. It will be like Blairs broken promise..
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
How can any snap poll provide an accurate response when only the politically engaged would have heard it
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
Presumably Sir K was cursing the Wayne Cuzon's case this morning. Will take up air time.
It is a bigger news story than Starmer’s speech tbf. A police offer users his badge or uniform to take ladies from the street, who compliantly go along with arrest is utterly chilling. It makes your whole stomach drop out, I can’t read or listen to it. 😢
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
How utterly horrific is that Sarah Everard news? Why would anyone, male or female, not resist arrest in the future on the back of this?
That case was 'arrest' by a single cop. Two of them (esp if one is female) is inherently safer, but not 100% [edit] if only on strict logic.
Just remember the police think NOT sacking this cop was a good idea.
Police officer caught on camera threatening to 'make something up' to arrest man allowed to keep job
Not always. when a friend committed suicide a few years back, the Cambridgeshire police who dealt with me were professional, polite and caring. It can't have been easy for them, and I sent a note of thanks to the police station.
A while later, I got a call back from a high-ranking officer thanking me for the note, and saying it was rare to get a thankyou note. Again, that was appreciated.
Me too. My mother died unexpectedly in horrendous weather - snow and ice. Young PC came, had to hang around for some time. I wrote an appreciative letter to the station officer i/c (not him, but in some ways that is better) - got a nice letter back. Same with the ambulance folk too btw.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Aye, Roy Jenkins - he of claret fame - and Tony Crosland were other very senior Labour figures and I believe Reggie Maudling on the Tory side was also fond of the occasional snifter. As was Dr Horace King who was Speaker from 1965 to 71. And so on....
Thatcher would drink neat scotch at lunch, it's in one of the political memoirs of the time (David Owen or Alan Clark, perhaps)
Didn't Ken Clarke get through a fair bit of Scotch when delivering his budgets?
Can we call the stuff whisky? We are not in Chicago.
We are not in Chicago and that is why we call it Scotch.
ETA maybe the Scots call it whisky? In my very limited experience, a wee dram.
This is a weirdo PB thing (or maybe it's just Ishmael).
For some reason, some people take umbrage with the precision.
Of course, Scotch is fine – and offers more detail. There are several types of whisk(e)y, chiefly Scotch, Irish, American Rye and Bourbon... (but also Welsh, English, Japanese...)
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
How can any snap poll provide an accurate response when only the politically engaged would have heard it
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
Presumably Sir K was cursing the Wayne Cuzon's case this morning. Will take up air time.
It is a bigger news story than Starmer’s speech tbf. A police offer users his badge or uniform to take ladies from the street, who compliantly go along with arrest is utterly chilling. It makes your whole stomach drop out, I can’t read or listen to it. 😢
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
How utterly horrific is that Sarah Everard news? Why would anyone, male or female, not resist arrest in the future on the back of this?
The police have a credibility problem, for sure. But resisting arrest is almost certainly asking for trouble.
The “Wayne Couzens” defence ain’t gonna get you very far.
Really? How many prosecutions are there for the bare offence of resisting arrest, when it turns out there was no crime to be arrested for in the first place? If you don't know the answer to that, what becomes of your point?
Decent people like Sarah won’t ever resist arrest. 😕
Will every type of society produce a bastard like Wayne, or are we too soft on misogyny and pornography?
Urgh, transferred to Igloo a few months ago. Just saw the email from them..
Anyone able to login to them?
Just tried and no.
Their landing page still has 'Energy for the Connected Generation, Switch today and you could save £71* a year'. I sense they have been somewhat overtaken by events.
Guess it is too late to take that recommended screenshot!
Go in on about the 50th go including resetting password and retrieved the last bill. Not been able to submit a meter reading yet.
Should I be personally bovvered about this, if all I burn is oil?
No but the posters who initially mentioned they are on Igloo, and other people with them, might be. Or might not.
I doubt people are particularly bothered about most posts people make.
I think someone posted on here the other day that the price of their heating oil had got up a lot.
Another reason why Boris Johnson and Priti Patel are absolute [moderated].
They renewed the term of that [another moderated] Cressida Dick.
Fuck Brexit, Boris Johnson deserves to be ousted for that alone.
Though to be fair he did sack my old college mate Ian Blair, so it's not not all bad.
Cressida Dick makes Ian Blair look brilliant, that's how bad she is.
I don’t understand why the mayor hasn’t done what the last mayor did, and make it quite clear the Commissioner does not have his confidence.
Because she does have his confidence?
That’s the worrying scenario. Obviously he’s happy with crime in London - or at least happy enough not to need to think about it for a couple of years electorally.
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
They are going hard for leave voters (not in that sense Leon).
It’s a difficult slogan for the Tories to rebut - how do they combat it, Brexit is working?
They just have to point to Sir Keir's attitude 2016-2019; refusal to accept the result, then determination to get an other referendum to which he was committed to Remain, no matter what
Leave was ALL about immigration, and Sir Keir is championing the New Labour regime which introduced the very thing that made the referendum possible, and the Leave win inevitable - don't see how that is courting Leavers, it's reminding them who's fault it was and that he thinks those at fault were the good guys
The people whoop whooping over his speech are committed Remainers!
Many PB Leavers dispute that immigration was the driver. They say it was about all sorts of other things such as cutting Brussels red tape and being "nimble" on foreign & trade policy.
Don't forget sclerotic and sovereignty. The EU is sclerotic. We want our sovereignty back.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Aye, Roy Jenkins - he of claret fame - and Tony Crosland were other very senior Labour figures and I believe Reggie Maudling on the Tory side was also fond of the occasional snifter. As was Dr Horace King who was Speaker from 1965 to 71. And so on....
Thatcher would drink neat scotch at lunch, it's in one of the political memoirs of the time (David Owen or Alan Clark, perhaps)
Didn't Ken Clarke get through a fair bit of Scotch when delivering his budgets?
Can we call the stuff whisky? We are not in Chicago.
We are not in Chicago and that is why we call it Scotch.
ETA maybe the Scots call it whisky? In my very limited experience, a wee dram.
This is a weirdo PB thing (or maybe it's just Ishmael).
For some reason, some people take umbrage with the precision.
Of course, Scotch is fine – and offers more detail. There are several types of whisk(e)y, chiefly Scotch, Irish, American Rye and Bourbon... (but also Welsh, English, Japanese...)
Yes, I can only ever remember "a bottle of Scotch" or, in pubs, a (double) Scotch. Tbf, it has been decades since I stopped drinking. If you wanted a foreign whiskey, you'd order it by name, eg Jack Daniels or Jameson's.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Aye, Roy Jenkins - he of claret fame - and Tony Crosland were other very senior Labour figures and I believe Reggie Maudling on the Tory side was also fond of the occasional snifter. As was Dr Horace King who was Speaker from 1965 to 71. And so on....
Thatcher would drink neat scotch at lunch, it's in one of the political memoirs of the time (David Owen or Alan Clark, perhaps)
Didn't Ken Clarke get through a fair bit of Scotch when delivering his budgets?
Can we call the stuff whisky? We are not in Chicago.
We are not in Chicago and that is why we call it Scotch.
ETA maybe the Scots call it whisky? In my very limited experience, a wee dram.
This is a weirdo PB thing (or maybe it's just Ishmael).
For some reason, some people take umbrage with the precision.
Of course, Scotch is fine – and offers more detail. There are several types of whisk(e)y, chiefly Scotch, Irish, American Rye and Bourbon... (but also Welsh, English, Japanese...)
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
They are going hard for leave voters (not in that sense Leon).
It’s a difficult slogan for the Tories to rebut - how do they combat it, Brexit is working?
They just have to point to Sir Keir's attitude 2016-2019; refusal to accept the result, then determination to get an other referendum to which he was committed to Remain, no matter what
Leave was ALL about immigration, and Sir Keir is championing the New Labour regime which introduced the very thing that made the referendum possible, and the Leave win inevitable - don't see how that is courting Leavers, it's reminding them who's fault it was and that he thinks those at fault were the good guys
The people whoop whooping over his speech are committed Remainers!
Many PB Leavers dispute that immigration was the driver. They say it was about all sorts of other things such as cutting Brussels red tape and being "nimble" on foreign & trade policy.
Don't forget sclerotic and sovereignty. The EU is sclerotic. We want our sovereignty back.
How can we ever forget sclerotic. Such a horrible word used daily for months on end.
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
How can any snap poll provide an accurate response when only the politically engaged would have heard it
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
Presumably Sir K was cursing the Wayne Cuzon's case this morning. Will take up air time.
It is a bigger news story than Starmer’s speech tbf. A police offer users his badge or uniform to take ladies from the street, who compliantly go along with arrest is utterly chilling. It makes your whole stomach drop out, I can’t read or listen to it. 😢
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
How utterly horrific is that Sarah Everard news? Why would anyone, male or female, not resist arrest in the future on the back of this?
That case was 'arrest' by a single cop. Two of them (esp if one is female) is inherently safer, but not 100% [edit] if only on strict logic.
Just remember the police think NOT sacking this cop was a good idea.
Police officer caught on camera threatening to 'make something up' to arrest man allowed to keep job
Not always. when a friend committed suicide a few years back, the Cambridgeshire police who dealt with me were professional, polite and caring. It can't have been easy for them, and I sent a note of thanks to the police station.
A while later, I got a call back from a high-ranking officer thanking me for the note, and saying it was rare to get a thankyou note. Again, that was appreciated.
Me too. My mother died unexpectedly in horrendous weather - snow and ice. Young PC came, had to hang around for some time. I wrote an appreciative letter to the station officer i/c (not him, but in some ways that is better) - got a nice letter back. Same with the ambulance folk too btw.
On reflection I should have done that in Nov 2012.
The treatment by Vodaphone and the Inland Revenue left a lot to be desired.I exoect it is better now, at least Lyn Hamer promised me that the Inland Revenue would be more compassionate than just sending out a tax return, which is what happened to me.
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
They are going hard for leave voters (not in that sense Leon).
It’s a difficult slogan for the Tories to rebut - how do they combat it, Brexit is working?
They just have to point to Sir Keir's attitude 2016-2019; refusal to accept the result, then determination to get an other referendum to which he was committed to Remain, no matter what
Leave was ALL about immigration, and Sir Keir is championing the New Labour regime which introduced the very thing that made the referendum possible, and the Leave win inevitable - don't see how that is courting Leavers, it's reminding them who's fault it was and that he thinks those at fault were the good guys
The people whoop whooping over his speech are committed Remainers!
Many PB Leavers dispute that immigration was the driver. They say it was about all sorts of other things such as cutting Brussels red tape and being "nimble" on foreign and trade policy.
Yes, "PB Leavers"!
Political debate is full of over complicated arguments, because the people who enjoy political debates enjoy complicated arguments to show off their debating prowess. But most people, 99.9% of the population, vote on the kind of gut instinct that political debaters hold in complete distain
True true true. Eg me. I love a good debate, love to get nuanced and logical yet remain true to my core egalitarian values, love to check out all the key policies of the main parties, but at the end of the day, when push comes to shove and I vote (Labour) it's not with any of that in mind, it's pure gut, as you say, simply a strong almost primal feeling that TORIES ARE BASTARDS.
There's mention of a prayer room on the website https://akluplaza.co.uk/ but not much space for it in the floor plans.
Otherwise, it sounds like a version of the Shopping Hall that happens to be run by some successful Asian shopkeepers. Best of luck to them.
Better that than another empty shell like the adjacent Littlewoods/Index site. That's been abandoned for nearly 20 years.
So new businesses that will attract people to Romford, unless they're allergic to Asians. Sounds like good news, eh?
Mention of a Mosque here - from the owner. Although the subtitles say "most". "Most" makes no sense, but let's see. The subtitles also say "In Charlie's" rather than "inshallah"
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
How can any snap poll provide an accurate response when only the politically engaged would have heard it
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
Presumably Sir K was cursing the Wayne Cuzon's case this morning. Will take up air time.
It is a bigger news story than Starmer’s speech tbf. A police offer users his badge or uniform to take ladies from the street, who compliantly go along with arrest is utterly chilling. It makes your whole stomach drop out, I can’t read or listen to it. 😢
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
How utterly horrific is that Sarah Everard news? Why would anyone, male or female, not resist arrest in the future on the back of this?
That case was 'arrest' by a single cop. Two of them (esp if one is female) is inherently safer, but not 100% [edit] if only on strict logic.
Imagine the stress anyone not used to being arrested would be under being cuffed and put into a policecar by a genuine policeman with a genuine warrant card.
Another reason why Boris Johnson and Priti Patel are absolute [moderated].
They renewed the term of that [another moderated] Cressida Dick.
Fuck Brexit, Boris Johnson deserves to be ousted for that alone.
Though to be fair he did sack my old college mate Ian Blair, so it's not not all bad.
Cressida Dick makes Ian Blair look brilliant, that's how bad she is.
I don’t understand why the mayor hasn’t done what the last mayor did, and make it quite clear the Commissioner does not have his confidence.
Because she does have his confidence?
That’s the worrying scenario. Obviously he’s happy with crime in London - or at least happy enough not to need to think about it for a couple of years electorally.
What does that solve? The Mayor of London cannot sack the Met Commissioner for that is the responsibility of the the Home Secretary.
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Aye, Roy Jenkins - he of claret fame - and Tony Crosland were other very senior Labour figures and I believe Reggie Maudling on the Tory side was also fond of the occasional snifter. As was Dr Horace King who was Speaker from 1965 to 71. And so on....
Thatcher would drink neat scotch at lunch, it's in one of the political memoirs of the time (David Owen or Alan Clark, perhaps)
Didn't Ken Clarke get through a fair bit of Scotch when delivering his budgets?
Can we call the stuff whisky? We are not in Chicago.
We are not in Chicago and that is why we call it Scotch.
ETA maybe the Scots call it whisky? In my very limited experience, a wee dram.
This is a weirdo PB thing (or maybe it's just Ishmael).
For some reason, some people take umbrage with the precision.
Of course, Scotch is fine – and offers more detail. There are several types of whisk(e)y, chiefly Scotch, Irish, American Rye and Bourbon... (but also Welsh, English, Japanese...)
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
They are going hard for leave voters (not in that sense Leon).
It’s a difficult slogan for the Tories to rebut - how do they combat it, Brexit is working?
They just have to point to Sir Keir's attitude 2016-2019; refusal to accept the result, then determination to get an other referendum to which he was committed to Remain, no matter what
Leave was ALL about immigration, and Sir Keir is championing the New Labour regime which introduced the very thing that made the referendum possible, and the Leave win inevitable - don't see how that is courting Leavers, it's reminding them who's fault it was and that he thinks those at fault were the good guys
The people whoop whooping over his speech are committed Remainers!
Many PB Leavers dispute that immigration was the driver. They say it was about all sorts of other things such as cutting Brussels red tape and being "nimble" on foreign and trade policy.
Yes, "PB Leavers"!
Political debate is full of over complicated arguments, because the people who enjoy political debates enjoy complicated arguments to show off their debating prowess. But most people, 99.9% of the population, vote on the kind of gut instinct that political debaters hold in complete distain
True true true. Eg me. I love a good debate, love to get nuanced and logical yet remain true to my core egalitarian values, love to check out all the key policies of the main parties, but at the end of the day, when push comes to shove and I vote (Labour) it's not with any of that in mind, it's pure gut, as you say, simply a strong almost primal feeling that TORIES ARE BASTARDS.
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are now British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
In fairness I have seen mass objections from people who didn't want a new church in their area supposedly on the grounds of increased sunday traffic and noise from the singing. That said, it was not CoE or Catholic.
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
If there is demand for it they'll make a profit.
If there isn't demand for it they'll lose money* and shut down.
Let the free market work it out.
* Unless this is funded by dodgy Saudi Wahhabist money. That I do have an issue with and needs to be stopped.
... A poll by CNN recently found that 59 percent of Republicans say that believing in Trump’s claims of a stolen election is what it “means to be a Republican.” I mean, that’s just awful.
The reason Bush v. Gore undermined Democrats’ confidence in the process so much was that the margin of error in the election greatly exceeded the margin of victory of the candidate. When you essentially have a tie in an election, and the tie-breaking rules are political bodies — and I consider the U.S. Supreme Court to be a political body, just like the Florida Supreme Court — you’re going to have some disgruntled people.
But 2020 was not a close election. It was not a close election in the popular vote; it was not a close election in the Electoral College vote. There is no basis in reality for believing that the winner actually lost the election...
It's one of those cases where you think, ah, hang him. Why not? Why should we pay to keep him alive?
I also find it very hard to believe this was a one-off. You don't go from normal sane person to intentional kidnapper, torturer, rapist, strangler and body-burner in one day. He must have done other horrible stuff interim. What?
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Aye, Roy Jenkins - he of claret fame - and Tony Crosland were other very senior Labour figures and I believe Reggie Maudling on the Tory side was also fond of the occasional snifter. As was Dr Horace King who was Speaker from 1965 to 71. And so on....
Thatcher would drink neat scotch at lunch, it's in one of the political memoirs of the time (David Owen or Alan Clark, perhaps)
Didn't Ken Clarke get through a fair bit of Scotch when delivering his budgets?
Can we call the stuff whisky? We are not in Chicago.
We are not in Chicago and that is why we call it Scotch.
ETA maybe the Scots call it whisky? In my very limited experience, a wee dram.
This is a weirdo PB thing (or maybe it's just Ishmael).
For some reason, some people take umbrage with the precision.
Of course, Scotch is fine – and offers more detail. There are several types of whisk(e)y, chiefly Scotch, Irish, American Rye and Bourbon... (but also Welsh, English, Japanese...)
Sometimes the country goes through Alice in Wonderland moments where nothing is in the right place. Last week listening to English radio in France was such a time. Every politician interviewed seemed compelled to answer questions on cervixes. Interviewers weren't happy till they'd squeezed every bit of reason and dignity out of the interviewee.......
And just when I was musing how little anyone-me included-found this strange I got the annual show-off mag from Millfield. The great and the good picking up their olympic medals and other sporting awards. Next to their photo their house and the dates they attended.....
........just as I'm about to bin it I there was a photo of Tyrone Mings. Tyrone Mings went to Milfield! They didn't even play football. Curiouser and curiouser......
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are now British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
In fairness I have seen mass objections from people who didn't want a new church in their area supposedly on the grounds of increased sunday traffic and noise from the singing. That said, it was not CoE or Catholic.
This is a prayer room in a multi story shopping centre. The traffic will be from shoppers and diners not prayer goers!
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are now British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
In fairness I have seen mass objections from people who didn't want a new church in their area supposedly on the grounds of increased sunday traffic and noise from the singing. That said, it was not CoE or Catholic.
This is a prayer room in a multi story shopping centre. The traffic will be from shoppers and diners not prayer goers!
Didn't say it wasn't, was just noting that people do object to things connected with faiths in general, without that faith necessarily being the reason.
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
If there is demand for it they'll make a profit.
If there isn't demand for it they'll lose money* and shut down.
Let the free market work it out.
* Unless this is funded by dodgy Saudi Wahhabist money. That I do have an issue with and needs to be stopped.
Agree 100%. I don't know what the law is regarding foreign funding of charities, schools, and religious institutions, but it should be strict and strictly enforced.
It's one of those cases where you think, ah, hang him. Why not? Why should we pay to keep him alive?
There's no mistake here, clearly, but mistakes do happen even if rare. Prison is at least reversable.
However, a majority have long supported hanging or similar, I am surprised it is not more of a political issue.
The Establishment keeps a lid on public opinion, in this case. But it is surprising that someone populist but sane like Farage has not ever gone near it
A referendum on the issue would be a close run thing, and could EASILY be won by the hangers -as you say, they are the majority in most polls
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
They are going hard for leave voters (not in that sense Leon).
It’s a difficult slogan for the Tories to rebut - how do they combat it, Brexit is working?
They just have to point to Sir Keir's attitude 2016-2019; refusal to accept the result, then determination to get an other referendum to which he was committed to Remain, no matter what
Leave was ALL about immigration, and Sir Keir is championing the New Labour regime which introduced the very thing that made the referendum possible, and the Leave win inevitable - don't see how that is courting Leavers, it's reminding them who's fault it was and that he thinks those at fault were the good guys
The people whoop whooping over his speech are committed Remainers!
Many PB Leavers dispute that immigration was the driver. They say it was about all sorts of other things such as cutting Brussels red tape and being "nimble" on foreign and trade policy.
Yes, "PB Leavers"!
Political debate is full of over complicated arguments, because the people who enjoy political debates enjoy complicated arguments to show off their debating prowess. But most people, 99.9% of the population, vote on the kind of gut instinct that political debaters hold in complete distain
True true true. Eg me. I love a good debate, love to get nuanced and logical yet remain true to my core egalitarian values, love to check out all the key policies of the main parties, but at the end of the day, when push comes to shove and I vote (Labour) it's not with any of that in mind, it's pure gut, as you say, simply a strong almost primal feeling that TORIES ARE BASTARDS.
The only serious hope the Democrats have of holding off Trump is getting as large-sized a stimulus bill, with as quick tanglible benefits as possible, though now, as several other commenters have mentioned. In that respect, the liberal Democrats' goals are actually far more immediately pragmatic than self-styled moderate figures such as Manchin, with his familiarly sclerotic and damaging ties for the US system to very large corporate donations.
Only a radical and visible, and fast, material improvement in many people' s lives in the US at the moment may stave off the much more dangerous form of Trump radicalism from returning, and potentially even threatening democracy. That's the fairly accurate calculus they're making, and it's probably rigtht.
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
If there is demand for it they'll make a profit.
If there isn't demand for it they'll lose money* and shut down.
Let the free market work it out.
* Unless this is funded by dodgy Saudi Wahhabist money. That I do have an issue with and needs to be stopped.
Agree 100%. I don't know what the law is regarding foreign funding of charities, schools, and religious institutions, but it should be strict and strictly enforced.
I think you are expected to bung the Tory party about 100k per year for each one you wish to corrupt? Is that still the going rate?
Why were the car stickers GB rather than UK originally? Was it because of potential confusion with Ukraine?
(I once had a payment from a US customer delayed for weeks because they'd sent the cheque to our address but in Ukraine, much to the puzzlement of the Ukrainian postal authorities),
GB was introduced in 1910 sez Wiki - and Ukraine was very much part of the Tsarist Empire then.
Edit: maybe they thouight Irish independence might happen and didn't want the hassle of changing? But UK would do just as well even then (reverting to the pre-1800 sense).
Maybe it was because hardly anyone owned a car in Northern Ireland at that time.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Aye, Roy Jenkins - he of claret fame - and Tony Crosland were other very senior Labour figures and I believe Reggie Maudling on the Tory side was also fond of the occasional snifter. As was Dr Horace King who was Speaker from 1965 to 71. And so on....
Thatcher would drink neat scotch at lunch, it's in one of the political memoirs of the time (David Owen or Alan Clark, perhaps)
Didn't Ken Clarke get through a fair bit of Scotch when delivering his budgets?
Can we call the stuff whisky? We are not in Chicago.
We are not in Chicago and that is why we call it Scotch.
ETA maybe the Scots call it whisky? In my very limited experience, a wee dram.
This is a weirdo PB thing (or maybe it's just Ishmael).
For some reason, some people take umbrage with the precision.
Of course, Scotch is fine – and offers more detail. There are several types of whisk(e)y, chiefly Scotch, Irish, American Rye and Bourbon... (but also Welsh, English, Japanese...)
4h Not many masks on show at the #LabourConference, in sharp contrast to in parliament.
Rather suggests that the MPs' efforts are for show, and the stance gets dropped when there aren't Tories to contrast against.
Interesting observation.
No masks at conference? Kinda interesting but if I were a Labour spin doctor I'd suggest the venue had a high ceiling and was properly ventilated, as per guidelines. Who knows, it might even be true.
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
And as it happens, there's a long-empty site right next door. If anyone wants to set up a Patriotic English Bazaar, with a distinctly Christian Chapel on the second floor, best of luck to them.
And the key thing is this. Debenhams closed. Would anyone really rather leave the site empty to avoid having foreigners buying and selling in it?
Keir is surely far too dull to become PM, and seems to be cursed with a voice more adenoidal than Ed Miliband’s, and a plodding delivery that renders even his sincerity insincere-sounding.
However, his speech seems to be getting positive feedback.
One of my disaffected Labour mates just texted to tell me that “Labour is back”.
One other thing, the very broad economic outline, and the anti-union stuff, we’re totally spot on.
Another reason why Boris Johnson and Priti Patel are absolute [moderated].
They renewed the term of that [another moderated] Cressida Dick.
Fuck Brexit, Boris Johnson deserves to be ousted for that alone.
Though to be fair he did sack my old college mate Ian Blair, so it's not not all bad.
Cressida Dick makes Ian Blair look brilliant, that's how bad she is.
I don’t understand why the mayor hasn’t done what the last mayor did, and make it quite clear the Commissioner does not have his confidence.
Because she does have his confidence?
That’s the worrying scenario. Obviously he’s happy with crime in London - or at least happy enough not to need to think about it for a couple of years electorally.
What does that solve? The Mayor of London cannot sack the Met Commissioner for that is the responsibility of the the Home Secretary.
It's one of those cases where you think, ah, hang him. Why not? Why should we pay to keep him alive?
There's no mistake here, clearly, but mistakes do happen even if rare. Prison is at least reversable.
However, a majority have long supported hanging or similar, I am surprised it is not more of a political issue.
The Establishment keeps a lid on public opinion, in this case. But it is surprising that someone populist but sane like Farage has not ever gone near it
A referendum on the issue would be a close run thing, and could EASILY be won by the hangers -as you say, they are the majority in most polls
It would probably pass BUT I vaguely remember hearing that one significant factor at the time was that juries had become reluctant to convict in capital cases.
As I said earlier, Starmer's Make Brexit Work looks like a pretty good slogan or soundbite that could appeal to leavers as well as (some) remainers.
It will annoy the hardcore FBPE-ers. On the other hand, does anyone have a version of Make Brexit Work that doesn't involve either unicorns or diluting Brexit?
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
And as it happens, there's a long-empty site right next door. If anyone wants to set up a Patriotic English Bazaar, with a distinctly Christian Chapel on the second floor, best of luck to them.
And the key thing is this. Debenhams closed. Would anyone really rather leave the site empty to avoid having foreigners buying and selling in it?
As Rob Smithson says, British citizens are entitled to open churches, mosques, whatever, if the law allows it
However, British citizens are also allowed to dislike drastic racial/cultural change, and they are allowed to dislike aspects of Islam, even Islam itself. Just as an atheist can despise Christianity and hate church bells
Would I be happy if Camden went from 80% white to 80% Muslim in a decade? No, I'd be absolutely horrified, and I'd also probably move.
Without exaggeration I think the in 2010 I was prosecuting terrorists, he was writing pieces about bicycle helmets, point the weakest I have ever heard made. That's what prosecutors and journalists respectively do. So what?
And the levelling up/ filling up "joke." Jesus. I wanted this speech to be a success. I think pb has been kinder to it than it deserved.
The only serious hope the Democrats have of holding off Trump is getting as large-sized a stimulus bill, with as quick tanglible benefits as possible, though now, as several other commenters have mentioned. In that respect the liberal democrats goals are actually far more immediately pragmatic than self-styled moderate figures such as Manchin, with his ties to very large corporate donations.
Only a radical and visible, and fast, material improvement in many people' s lives in the US at the moment may stave off the much more dangerous form of Trump radicalism from returning, and potentially even threatening democracy. That's the fairly accurate calculus, in my view.
It's one of those cases where you think, ah, hang him. Why not? Why should we pay to keep him alive?
There's no mistake here, clearly, but mistakes do happen even if rare. Prison is at least reversable.
However, a majority have long supported hanging or similar, I am surprised it is not more of a political issue.
The Establishment keeps a lid on public opinion, in this case. But it is surprising that someone populist but sane like Farage has not ever gone near it
A referendum on the issue would be a close run thing, and could EASILY be won by the hangers -as you say, they are the majority in most polls
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
And as it happens, there's a long-empty site right next door. If anyone wants to set up a Patriotic English Bazaar, with a distinctly Christian Chapel on the second floor, best of luck to them.
And the key thing is this. Debenhams closed. Would anyone really rather leave the site empty to avoid having foreigners buying and selling in it?
Ah, so you believe me about the Mosque now
Stage One: "You're lying" Stage Two: "OK you're not, (Not actually said) But so what anyway?"
As I said earlier, Starmer's Make Brexit Work looks like a pretty good slogan or soundbite that could appeal to leavers as well as (some) remainers.
It will annoy the hardcore FBPE-ers. On the other hand, does anyone have a version of Make Brexit Work that doesn't involve either unicorns or diluting Brexit?
I take your point. But even the hardcore FBPE-ers are not so stupid as to think Brexit can be overturned in the next few years, probably much longer. So in the meantime we are all left with no option but to Make Brexit Work, even if that means some dilution of the current hard Brexit. If Labour can convince voters they could Make Brexit Work better than the Tories, they're in business.
It's one of those cases where you think, ah, hang him. Why not? Why should we pay to keep him alive?
There's no mistake here, clearly, but mistakes do happen even if rare. Prison is at least reversable.
However, a majority have long supported hanging or similar, I am surprised it is not more of a political issue.
The Establishment keeps a lid on public opinion, in this case. But it is surprising that someone populist but sane like Farage has not ever gone near it
A referendum on the issue would be a close run thing, and could EASILY be won by the hangers -as you say, they are the majority in most polls
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
How can any snap poll provide an accurate response when only the politically engaged would have heard it
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
Presumably Sir K was cursing the Wayne Cuzon's case this morning. Will take up air time.
It is a bigger news story than Starmer’s speech tbf. A police offer users his badge or uniform to take ladies from the street, who compliantly go along with arrest is utterly chilling. It makes your whole stomach drop out, I can’t read or listen to it. 😢
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
How utterly horrific is that Sarah Everard news? Why would anyone, male or female, not resist arrest in the future on the back of this?
That case was 'arrest' by a single cop. Two of them (esp if one is female) is inherently safer, but not 100% [edit] if only on strict logic.
Just remember the police think NOT sacking this cop was a good idea.
Police officer caught on camera threatening to 'make something up' to arrest man allowed to keep job
Not always. when a friend committed suicide a few years back, the Cambridgeshire police who dealt with me were professional, polite and caring. It can't have been easy for them, and I sent a note of thanks to the police station.
A while later, I got a call back from a high-ranking officer thanking me for the note, and saying it was rare to get a thankyou note. Again, that was appreciated.
Me too. My mother died unexpectedly in horrendous weather - snow and ice. Young PC came, had to hang around for some time. I wrote an appreciative letter to the station officer i/c (not him, but in some ways that is better) - got a nice letter back. Same with the ambulance folk too btw.
On reflection I should have done that in Nov 2012.
The treatment by Vodaphone and the Inland Revenue left a lot to be desired.I exoect it is better now, at least Lyn Hamer promised me that the Inland Revenue would be more compassionate than just sending out a tax return, which is what happened to me.
It's not an easy thing to remember to do at the time and as I recall I did it with some months' delay (it is surprising, until one experiences it, how a close bereavement affects one, especially if other family members need to be consulted as they are affected perhaps much more). I was quicker with my father's demise as I was more used to what had to be done.
As for the matter you raise, some banks and organizations were awful and some very easy. Though I'm still glad I took another look at the heap of old paper from one life asurance company and realised the policy payout seemed rather low - and challenged it, cue £10K++ cheque almost in the next post. I think things have improved since that time after the likes of Which made some very pointed remarks, but the odd thing was that one or two of the good organizations the first time round had regressed. HMRC were very tolerant of a major tax error made by my mother the previous tax year - no penalty at all, just happy to have the basic payment. Fine the second time. The DSS very much in workhouse supervisor mode both times. Shitty paper, shitty typescript, shitty way of doing things, demanding refund to the penny of 'overpaid' state pension for the days not lived - I wouldn't mind that so much if the sods actually gave you a P60 rather than leaving it to you to work out how to calculate the actual income on their weekly accounting system.
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
And as it happens, there's a long-empty site right next door. If anyone wants to set up a Patriotic English Bazaar, with a distinctly Christian Chapel on the second floor, best of luck to them.
And the key thing is this. Debenhams closed. Would anyone really rather leave the site empty to avoid having foreigners buying and selling in it?
As Rob Smithson says, British citizens are entitled to open churches, mosques, whatever, if the law allows it
However, British citizens are also allowed to dislike drastic racial/cultural change, and they are allowed to dislike aspects of Islam, even Islam itself. Just as an atheist can despise Christianity and hate church bells
Would I be happy if Camden went from 80% white to 80% Muslim in a decade? No, I'd be absolutely horrified, and I'd also probably move.
I went to a school that was 70% Muslim, I've lived on the Aldgate/Whitechapel/Brick Lane boundary, and I've worked with Muslims.
Now, most of the Muslims I am very close to are the ones that were kicked out of Persia when the Ayatollah came (which tells you they're decadent and Western), but as far as I can they're normal human beings, who care about pretty much the same things non-Muslims do.
It's one of those cases where you think, ah, hang him. Why not? Why should we pay to keep him alive?
There's no mistake here, clearly, but mistakes do happen even if rare. Prison is at least reversable.
However, a majority have long supported hanging or similar, I am surprised it is not more of a political issue.
The Establishment keeps a lid on public opinion, in this case. But it is surprising that someone populist but sane like Farage has not ever gone near it
A referendum on the issue would be a close run thing, and could EASILY be won by the hangers -as you say, they are the majority in most polls
Farage has always been anti-capital punishment. Surprising but true.
If we can't have capital punishment for cases like Couzens, then there needs to be a special punishment for "police" who kill, just as there should be for people who kill police. I suggest life imprisonment, without parole, and solitary confinement, until death, and with the option of suicide if you want
Why were the car stickers GB rather than UK originally? Was it because of potential confusion with Ukraine?
(I once had a payment from a US customer delayed for weeks because they'd sent the cheque to our address but in Ukraine, much to the puzzlement of the Ukrainian postal authorities),
GB was introduced in 1910 sez Wiki - and Ukraine was very much part of the Tsarist Empire then.
Edit: maybe they thouight Irish independence might happen and didn't want the hassle of changing? But UK would do just as well even then (reverting to the pre-1800 sense).
Maybe it was because hardly anyone owned a car in Northern Ireland at that time.
Keir is surely far too dull to become PM, and seems to be cursed with a voice more adenoidal than Ed Miliband’s, and a plodding delivery that renders even his sincerity insincere-sounding.
However, his speech seems to be getting positive feedback.
One of my disaffected Labour mates just texted to tell me that “Labour is back”.
One other thing, the very broad economic outline, and the anti-union stuff, we’re totally spot on.
Yes and no. He is very clearly not a class act dealing with hecklers, (Guido usefully distils the heckles into 1 minute plus, which saves time and looks terrible all round) and SKS is not the supreme class that could overcome a 127 seat deficit to get to 326.
That isn't what he has to do. He has to assemble a rainbow with about 322 seats between them, and for that if perfectly in the realm of possibility. I give it a 40% chance.
It's one of those cases where you think, ah, hang him. Why not? Why should we pay to keep him alive?
There's no mistake here, clearly, but mistakes do happen even if rare. Prison is at least reversable.
However, a majority have long supported hanging or similar, I am surprised it is not more of a political issue.
The Establishment keeps a lid on public opinion, in this case. But it is surprising that someone populist but sane like Farage has not ever gone near it
A referendum on the issue would be a close run thing, and could EASILY be won by the hangers -as you say, they are the majority in most polls
Farage has always been anti-capital punishment. Surprising but true.
If we can't have capital punishment for cases like Couzens, then there needs to be a special punishment for "police" who kill, just as there should be for people who kill police. I suggest life imprisonment, without parole, and solitary confinement, until death, and with the option of suicide if you want
It cuts both ways, for the police
This is a great idea; well the bit about an extra tariff for police who kill.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Aye, Roy Jenkins - he of claret fame - and Tony Crosland were other very senior Labour figures and I believe Reggie Maudling on the Tory side was also fond of the occasional snifter. As was Dr Horace King who was Speaker from 1965 to 71. And so on....
Thatcher would drink neat scotch at lunch, it's in one of the political memoirs of the time (David Owen or Alan Clark, perhaps)
Didn't Ken Clarke get through a fair bit of Scotch when delivering his budgets?
Can we call the stuff whisky? We are not in Chicago.
We are not in Chicago and that is why we call it Scotch.
ETA maybe the Scots call it whisky? In my very limited experience, a wee dram.
This is a weirdo PB thing (or maybe it's just Ishmael).
For some reason, some people take umbrage with the precision.
Of course, Scotch is fine – and offers more detail. There are several types of whisk(e)y, chiefly Scotch, Irish, American Rye and Bourbon... (but also Welsh, English, Japanese...)
Though the slogan "Drink Canada Dry" referred to ginger ale . . . at least originally!
I remember a couple of relatives in the 70s used to drink that with whisky. Vile stuff.
How dare you dis the Champagne of Saskatchewan!
A simple matter of having once tasted it...
Would agree that diluting whisk(e)y with ANY kind of ginger ale is foul. Though each to their own.
However, as far as ginger ale goes, it's always been a favorite of mine, and Canada Dry is perhaps the best of the mega-brands, at least on this side of the Atlantic AND the Pacific.
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
And as it happens, there's a long-empty site right next door. If anyone wants to set up a Patriotic English Bazaar, with a distinctly Christian Chapel on the second floor, best of luck to them.
And the key thing is this. Debenhams closed. Would anyone really rather leave the site empty to avoid having foreigners buying and selling in it?
As Rob Smithson says, British citizens are entitled to open churches, mosques, whatever, if the law allows it
However, British citizens are also allowed to dislike drastic racial/cultural change, and they are allowed to dislike aspects of Islam, even Islam itself. Just as an atheist can despise Christianity and hate church bells
Would I be happy if Camden went from 80% white to 80% Muslim in a decade? No, I'd be absolutely horrified, and I'd also probably move.
Going from my kids school photos, Romford has probably gone from 100% white to 90% white in a decade. One big Asian cornucopia is pretty justified on that basis.
I get the disturbance that induces. In some ways, going from 100% white to 90% white is more noticeable than from 90% to 70%. And the easy politics is to say "no, Romford must be kept special" (as a certain party here put it four years ago).
But there are times when it's necessary to say "I know you feel that. But your feeling is wrong."
And that's where I'm bailing out of this. Children to collect.
There's mention of a prayer room on the website https://akluplaza.co.uk/ but not much space for it in the floor plans.
Otherwise, it sounds like a version of the Shopping Hall that happens to be run by some successful Asian shopkeepers. Best of luck to them.
Better that than another empty shell like the adjacent Littlewoods/Index site. That's been abandoned for nearly 20 years.
So new businesses that will attract people to Romford, unless they're allergic to Asians. Sounds like good news, eh?
Mention of a Mosque here - from the owner. Although the subtitles say "most". "Most" makes no sense, but let's see. The subtitles also say "In Charlie's" rather than "inshallah"
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
And as it happens, there's a long-empty site right next door. If anyone wants to set up a Patriotic English Bazaar, with a distinctly Christian Chapel on the second floor, best of luck to them.
And the key thing is this. Debenhams closed. Would anyone really rather leave the site empty to avoid having foreigners buying and selling in it?
Ah, so you believe me about the Mosque now
Stage One: "You're lying" Stage Two: "OK you're not, (Not actually said) But so what anyway?"
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
And as it happens, there's a long-empty site right next door. If anyone wants to set up a Patriotic English Bazaar, with a distinctly Christian Chapel on the second floor, best of luck to them.
And the key thing is this. Debenhams closed. Would anyone really rather leave the site empty to avoid having foreigners buying and selling in it?
As Rob Smithson says, British citizens are entitled to open churches, mosques, whatever, if the law allows it
However, British citizens are also allowed to dislike drastic racial/cultural change, and they are allowed to dislike aspects of Islam, even Islam itself. Just as an atheist can despise Christianity and hate church bells
Would I be happy if Camden went from 80% white to 80% Muslim in a decade? No, I'd be absolutely horrified, and I'd also probably move.
I went to a school that was 70% Muslim, I've lived on the Aldgate/Whitechapel/Brick Lane boundary, and I've worked with Muslims.
Now, most of the Muslims I am very close to are the ones that were kicked out of Persia when the Ayatollah came (which tells you they're decadent and Western), but as far as I can they're normal human beings, who care about pretty much the same things non-Muslims do.
Of course. I just don't want to live in a Muslim neighborhood, just as, I am sure, lots of Muslims WOULD prefer to live in a Muslim neighborhood, and that's their choice
This is just human nature, not bigotry. People like to be surrounded by other people similar to them. It's why you get racial enclaves everywhere. It's why you're in a posh part of California, surrounded by lots of people like you
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
And as it happens, there's a long-empty site right next door. If anyone wants to set up a Patriotic English Bazaar, with a distinctly Christian Chapel on the second floor, best of luck to them.
And the key thing is this. Debenhams closed. Would anyone really rather leave the site empty to avoid having foreigners buying and selling in it?
As Rob Smithson says, British citizens are entitled to open churches, mosques, whatever, if the law allows it
However, British citizens are also allowed to dislike drastic racial/cultural change, and they are allowed to dislike aspects of Islam, even Islam itself. Just as an atheist can despise Christianity and hate church bells
Would I be happy if Camden went from 80% white to 80% Muslim in a decade? No, I'd be absolutely horrified, and I'd also probably move.
You can dislike church bells and the call to prayer but if you move near a church or mosque, tough, what did you expect?
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Hang on.
Those people are British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
And as it happens, there's a long-empty site right next door. If anyone wants to set up a Patriotic English Bazaar, with a distinctly Christian Chapel on the second floor, best of luck to them.
And the key thing is this. Debenhams closed. Would anyone really rather leave the site empty to avoid having foreigners buying and selling in it?
Ah, so you believe me about the Mosque now
Stage One: "You're lying" Stage Two: "OK you're not, (Not actually said) But so what anyway?"
Comments
But as an organisation they not only have some major problems, they are clearly massively resistant to genuinely acknowledging their problems and even more so to addressing them.
When people have the power they have, we cannot go easy on them and have to be very hard on any issues.
Political debate is full of over complicated arguments, because the people who enjoy political debates enjoy complicated arguments to show off their debating prowess. But most people, 99.9% of the population, vote on the kind of gut instinct that political debaters hold in complete distain
So hung parliament at the next election and a Lib/Lab pact ?
Followed by half a decade of stagflation and piss poor fashion.
Hope not, because a fine representative of the forces of order such as Deputy Fife surely deserves better!
https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/culture/2021/09/135_315955.html
Will every type of society produce a bastard like Wayne, or are we too soft on misogyny and pornography?
Though the slogan "Drink Canada Dry" referred to ginger ale . . . at least originally!
The treatment by Vodaphone and the Inland Revenue left a lot to be desired.I exoect it is better now, at least Lyn Hamer promised me that the Inland Revenue would be more compassionate than just sending out a tax return, which is what happened to me.
“The absence of pragmatism among Democrats is as troubling as the absence of principle among Republicans.”
"...there is no question that America’s 245-year experiment in democracy is in real peril."
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/28/opinion/liz-cheney-democrats-democracy.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnEhLL1mw5E
It's a specifically Islamic Shopping Hall, not just a Shopping Hall that happens to be run by successful Asian shopkeepers. I don't think it will go down that well, but who cares about what people who grew up in Romford think? We've mostly all left anyway
Goldman Sachs, Ozy Media and a $40 Million Conference Call Gone Wrong https://nyti.ms/2ZAZIIs
Those people are British citizens.
Why shouldn't they be allowed to open a mosque? Or a church? Or an Anne summers?
Unless they are actually hurting other people, it's none of your business
Vile stuff.
*gets coat*
Most of them also have a variety of Chaplains, too.
Boots in Nottingham used to employ one part time, who was also Chaplain to Radcliffe on Soar power station, and a small local parish.
Very interesting that this is a big retail project in a high street.
I didn't say they couldn't, did I?
If there isn't demand for it they'll lose money* and shut down.
Let the free market work it out.
* Unless this is funded by dodgy Saudi Wahhabist money. That I do have an issue with and needs to be stopped.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/09/26/trump-politics-american-democracy-threat-2021-2022-analysis-514180
...Or consider how things might’ve played out in January if Congress’s makeup had been different. “What would have happened if the election was exactly the same, except Kevin McCarthy was Speaker of the House?” Hasen asks. “I don’t know that we’d have a President Biden right now.”...
... A poll by CNN recently found that 59 percent of Republicans say that believing in Trump’s claims of a stolen election is what it “means to be a Republican.” I mean, that’s just awful.
The reason Bush v. Gore undermined Democrats’ confidence in the process so much was that the margin of error in the election greatly exceeded the margin of victory of the candidate. When you essentially have a tie in an election, and the tie-breaking rules are political bodies — and I consider the U.S. Supreme Court to be a political body, just like the Florida Supreme Court — you’re going to have some disgruntled people.
But 2020 was not a close election. It was not a close election in the popular vote; it was not a close election in the Electoral College vote. There is no basis in reality for believing that the winner actually lost the election...
It's one of those cases where you think, ah, hang him. Why not? Why should we pay to keep him alive?
I also find it very hard to believe this was a one-off. You don't go from normal sane person to intentional kidnapper, torturer, rapist, strangler and body-burner in one day. He must have done other horrible stuff interim. What?
Parliament is their workplace not a gathering and suddenly it needs masks?
Clearly the masks are just theatre.
And just when I was musing how little anyone-me included-found this strange I got the annual show-off mag from Millfield. The great and the good picking up their olympic medals and other sporting awards. Next to their photo their house and the dates they attended.....
........just as I'm about to bin it I there was a photo of Tyrone Mings. Tyrone Mings went to Milfield! They didn't even play football. Curiouser and curiouser......
However, a majority have long supported hanging or similar, I am surprised it is not more of a political issue.
The creator of #StarWars is getting the action figure treatment with the release of Hasbro’s new toy: “George Lucas (in Stormtrooper Disguise)”
https://twitter.com/THR/status/1443080105635495936
YouGov
Britons think Brexit is going badly, and it's an opinion more people have come to as the year has gone on
Going well: 18% (-7)
Going badly: 53% (+15)
Neither: 21% (-4)
Changes from Jun 21, 2021
Who thinks Brexit has been going well this year?
Con voters: 39% (-12)
Leave voters: 35% (-10)
British public: 18% (-7)
Remain voters: 5% (-3)
Lab voters: 3% (-2)
Changes from Jun 21, 2021
Opportunity for labour and lib dens to publicly and openly move nearer to the EU
A referendum on the issue would be a close run thing, and could EASILY be won by the hangers -as you say, they are the majority in most polls
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/legal/articles-reports/2019/10/01/brits-want-harsher-punishments-criminals
Only a radical and visible, and fast, material improvement in many people' s lives in the US at the moment may stave off the much more dangerous form of Trump radicalism from returning, and potentially even threatening democracy. That's the fairly accurate calculus they're making, and it's probably rigtht.
And the key thing is this. Debenhams closed. Would anyone really rather leave the site empty to avoid having foreigners buying and selling in it?
However, his speech seems to be getting positive feedback.
One of my disaffected Labour mates just texted to tell me that “Labour is back”.
One other thing, the very broad economic outline, and the anti-union stuff, we’re totally spot on.
Alleged or real or somewhere in between!
However, British citizens are also allowed to dislike drastic racial/cultural change, and they are allowed to dislike aspects of Islam, even Islam itself. Just as an atheist can despise Christianity and hate church bells
Would I be happy if Camden went from 80% white to 80% Muslim in a decade? No, I'd be absolutely horrified, and I'd also probably move.
Without exaggeration I think the in 2010 I was prosecuting terrorists, he was writing pieces about bicycle helmets, point the weakest I have ever heard made. That's what prosecutors and journalists respectively do. So what?
And the levelling up/ filling up "joke." Jesus. I wanted this speech to be a success. I think pb has been kinder to it than it deserved.
Manchin is a pain at moment.
Stage One: "You're lying"
Stage Two: "OK you're not, (Not actually said) But so what anyway?"
Like clockwork
As for the matter you raise, some banks and organizations were awful and some very easy. Though I'm still glad I took another look at the heap of old paper from one life asurance company and realised the policy payout seemed rather low - and challenged it, cue £10K++ cheque almost in the next post. I think things have improved since that time after the likes of Which made some very pointed remarks, but the odd thing was that one or two of the good organizations the first time round had regressed. HMRC were very tolerant of a major tax error made by my mother the previous tax year - no penalty at all, just happy to have the basic payment. Fine the second time. The DSS very much in workhouse supervisor mode both times. Shitty paper, shitty typescript, shitty way of doing things, demanding refund to the penny of 'overpaid' state pension for the days not lived - I wouldn't mind that so much if the sods actually gave you a P60 rather than leaving it to you to work out how to calculate the actual income on their weekly accounting system.
Now, most of the Muslims I am very close to are the ones that were kicked out of Persia when the Ayatollah came (which tells you they're decadent and Western), but as far as I can they're normal human beings, who care about pretty much the same things non-Muslims do.
https://labour.org.uk/conference/faqs/#COVID
Is this a requirement at Parliament?
It cuts both ways, for the police
That isn't what he has to do. He has to assemble a rainbow with about 322 seats between them, and for that if perfectly in the realm of possibility. I give it a 40% chance.
However, as far as ginger ale goes, it's always been a favorite of mine, and Canada Dry is perhaps the best of the mega-brands, at least on this side of the Atlantic AND the Pacific.
So there!
I get the disturbance that induces. In some ways, going from 100% white to 90% white is more noticeable than from 90% to 70%. And the easy politics is to say "no, Romford must be kept special" (as a certain party here put it four years ago).
But there are times when it's necessary to say "I know you feel that. But your feeling is wrong."
And that's where I'm bailing out of this. Children to collect.
On so many levels.
Still, Enoch was right in your eyes, I suppose...
This is just human nature, not bigotry. People like to be surrounded by other people similar to them. It's why you get racial enclaves everywhere. It's why you're in a posh part of California, surrounded by lots of people like you
A prayer room is technically a mosque.
But not the kind of mosques you would assume.
So long as it has a mihrab and people take off their shoes when entering then your living room becomes a mosque.