I think Starmer could be the equivalent of Michael Howard, albeit with 1/1000th of the charisma and that's saying something. Even the sainted TB praised MH, saying it was a welcome relief to have a sensible LotO and proper debate. But the public needed more convincing. And more time.
So like Kinnock, SKS is paving the way for someone to come and reap what he has sown.
I think you may be correct
His speech was far too long but he handled the hecklers well
Labour still have a long way to go to regain the voters trust, and Starmer looks as if he may steady the ship but someone else will be needed to bring it safely home to port
Thank goodness no one noticed the fuel queues and will not notice the inflationary pressures on the horizon.
I heard the word "stagflation" on R4 this morning. Possibly for the first time in decades.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
But NI is in the EU, so the GB one is correct for a change ...
Will we have to change it back to GB after Sindyref2? You are better off sticking with your "Ecosse" badge.
There will be no indyref2 allowed while we Tories are in charge anyway
You have no idea what 'we tories' will do at sometime in the future...
Neither do 'you Tories'. Especially if Boris is still in charge.
Disappointing, still down week-on-week which is good but looks like the fall is running out of steam which is sad.
What are hospitalisations?
That's the key metric, surely. If they keep coming down, that's nearly all that matters. Cases are much less significant
I am actually very surprised the case numbers are down. This thing is running through the schools like wildfire. I would expect cases to remain high until it has burnt itself out amongst the 12-15 age group.
Yes, every kid in a school is going to get this. How do you avoid it? Delta is so infectious, children can't mask and socially distance 24/7
On the other hand, this is concerning. Guam has a vax rate of 90%
One thing we've learnt today. Starmer definitely had a mum and a dad.
Hah
But we’ve also learned another. After that unionist speech, no way is Starmer going into Coalition with the SNP, offering them Sindyref2. That’s quite significant
Well things might look different if it's the only option. But he was strong on it.
Yeah, because Starmer has such a track record of standing firm on stuff....
Urgh, transferred to Igloo a few months ago. Just saw the email from them..
Anyone able to login to them?
Just tried and no.
Their landing page still has 'Energy for the Connected Generation, Switch today and you could save £71* a year'. I sense they have been somewhat overtaken by events.
• PBers still don't understand how vaccine efficacy is measured (see @Leon, thanks for the clarification @Pulstar)
• PBers still don't seem to grasp that Covid doesn't matter if it presents as a (bad) cold
I said nothing about vaccine efficacy. I said the situation in Guam is "concerning", which it is. The vaccines work but as Guam shows, with Delta, you can still have a highly pressured health system even with 90% of eligibles jabbed
Covid is not defeated. Tho it is in slow retreat, inshallah
I think Starmer could be the equivalent of Michael Howard, albeit with 1/1000th of the charisma and that's saying something. Even the sainted TB praised MH, saying it was a welcome relief to have a sensible LotO and proper debate. But the public needed more convincing. And more time.
So like Kinnock, SKS is paving the way for someone to come and reap what he has sown.
I think you may be correct
His speech was far too long but he handled the hecklers well
Labour still have a long way to go to regain the voters trust, and Starmer looks as if he may steady the ship but someone else will be needed to bring it safely home to port
Thank goodness no one noticed the fuel queues and will not notice the inflationary pressures on the horizon.
I have no doubt the fuel queues have been noticed by most everyone, and inflation is something the world is facing but one speech does not suddenly make labour electable
They have to persuade people like myself who voted for Blair to do so again
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Aye, Roy Jenkins - he of claret fame - and Tony Crosland were other very senior Labour figures and I believe Reggie Maudling on the Tory side was also fond of the occasional snifter. As was Dr Horace King who was Speaker from 1965 to 71. And so on....
Thatcher would drink neat scotch at lunch, it's in one of the political memoirs of the time (David Owen or Alan Clark, perhaps)
IANAE but I understand there to be some uncertainty about that.
PB pedantry point: there is no doubt that JC died on the Cross and was buried (unless there is some relevant heresy of which I am unaware). It's what happened 3 days later that is the matter for discussion.
I don't think there's any doubt about what happened:
The Blairites put up a terrible candidate, and JC was re-elected Labour leader in a landslide.
The first JC only spent 40 days in the wilderness though …
But 30 years in obscurity before prominence and ascension?
Starmer is never going to be a great orator, but that speech was a whole lot better than I was expecting. He looked and sounded like a leader. Overall, Labour leaves Brighton in a better place than it was when it got there. The far-left has been marginalised - by Starmer but also by choice - and today that was made very clear. That message is one that has to be heard before anything else Labour says is going to be even considered. So, a foundation has been laid.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
But NI is in the EU, so the GB one is correct for a change ...
Will we have to change it back to GB after Sindyref2? You are better off sticking with your "Ecosse" badge.
There will be no indyref2 allowed while we Tories are in charge anyway
You have no idea what 'we tories' will do at sometime in the future...
Neither do 'you Tories'. Especially if Boris is still in charge.
I think Starmer could be the equivalent of Michael Howard, albeit with 1/1000th of the charisma and that's saying something. Even the sainted TB praised MH, saying it was a welcome relief to have a sensible LotO and proper debate. But the public needed more convincing. And more time.
So like Kinnock, SKS is paving the way for someone to come and reap what he has sown.
I think you may be correct
His speech was far too long but he handled the hecklers well
Labour still have a long way to go to regain the voters trust, and Starmer looks as if he may steady the ship but someone else will be needed to bring it safely home to port
Thank goodness no one noticed the fuel queues and will not notice the inflationary pressures on the horizon.
I have no doubt the fuel queues have been noticed by most everyone, and inflation is something the world is facing but one speech does not suddenly make labour electable
They have to persuade people like myself who voted for Blair to do so again
Today was a very small step on that journey
I’m sorry to pop your balloon there G, but your vote is not vitally needed…
That’s Blair Landslide territory, Tories hit by asteroid, as PBs great psephologist HY will quickly point out.
I think Starmer could be the equivalent of Michael Howard, albeit with 1/1000th of the charisma and that's saying something. Even the sainted TB praised MH, saying it was a welcome relief to have a sensible LotO and proper debate. But the public needed more convincing. And more time.
So like Kinnock, SKS is paving the way for someone to come and reap what he has sown.
I think you may be correct
His speech was far too long but he handled the hecklers well
Labour still have a long way to go to regain the voters trust, and Starmer looks as if he may steady the ship but someone else will be needed to bring it safely home to port
Thank goodness no one noticed the fuel queues and will not notice the inflationary pressures on the horizon.
I have no doubt the fuel queues have been noticed by most everyone, and inflation is something the world is facing but one speech does not suddenly make labour electable
They have to persuade people like myself who voted for Blair to do so again
Today was a very small step on that journey
I’m sorry to pop your balloon there G, but your vote is not vitally needed…
Urgh, transferred to Igloo a few months ago. Just saw the email from them..
Anyone able to login to them?
Just tried and no.
Their landing page still has 'Energy for the Connected Generation, Switch today and you could save £71* a year'. I sense they have been somewhat overtaken by events.
Guess it is too late to take that recommended screenshot!
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Aye, Roy Jenkins - he of claret fame - and Tony Crosland were other very senior Labour figures and I believe Reggie Maudling on the Tory side was also fond of the occasional snifter. As was Dr Horace King who was Speaker from 1965 to 71. And so on....
Thatcher would drink neat scotch at lunch, it's in one of the political memoirs of the time (David Owen or Alan Clark, perhaps)
I don't get this Wilson was from the right bit. He was definitely centre left is my understanding.
Considering NI registered cars rarely had the blue strip to the side prior to Brexit I wonder if this is to make it more palatable for them (well, half of them, I imagine the nationalist side still won't want to drive a car with "UK" on) to use when driving in Europe.
I note this change still doesn't mean you need a sticker if you change your plates to one with the union flag on and "UK", but still annoying for anyone who updated it after Brexit.
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Aye, Roy Jenkins - he of claret fame - and Tony Crosland were other very senior Labour figures and I believe Reggie Maudling on the Tory side was also fond of the occasional snifter. As was Dr Horace King who was Speaker from 1965 to 71. And so on....
Thatcher would drink neat scotch at lunch, it's in one of the political memoirs of the time (David Owen or Alan Clark, perhaps)
Didn't Ken Clarke get through a fair bit of Scotch when delivering his budgets?
Urgh, transferred to Igloo a few months ago. Just saw the email from them..
Anyone able to login to them?
Just tried and no.
Their landing page still has 'Energy for the Connected Generation, Switch today and you could save £71* a year'. I sense they have been somewhat overtaken by events.
"Three more British energy suppliers have collapsed, as soaring natural gas prices continue to create market turmoil.
The energy regulator Ofgem said today that Igloo Energy, Symbio Energy and ENSTROGA have stopped trading."
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Corbyn lost 2019 badly, but he was courting the 2nd referendum vote in a country that voted 65/35 Leave in terms of constituencies. As I showed earlier, the movement from 2015 to 2019 was almost all UKIP to Conservative, which mullers the Remain vote
I think Starmer could be the equivalent of Michael Howard, albeit with 1/1000th of the charisma and that's saying something. Even the sainted TB praised MH, saying it was a welcome relief to have a sensible LotO and proper debate. But the public needed more convincing. And more time.
So like Kinnock, SKS is paving the way for someone to come and reap what he has sown.
I think you may be correct
His speech was far too long but he handled the hecklers well
Labour still have a long way to go to regain the voters trust, and Starmer looks as if he may steady the ship but someone else will be needed to bring it safely home to port
Thank goodness no one noticed the fuel queues and will not notice the inflationary pressures on the horizon.
I heard the word "stagflation" on R4 this morning. Possibly for the first time in decades.
I posted it here about 3 months ago.
On basis inflation looks nailed on, but growth could be lumpy, likely the odd ups and downs back in sixties and seventies.
Is it measurements like this that made them called the swinging sixties?
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Aye, Roy Jenkins - he of claret fame - and Tony Crosland were other very senior Labour figures and I believe Reggie Maudling on the Tory side was also fond of the occasional snifter. As was Dr Horace King who was Speaker from 1965 to 71. And so on....
Thatcher would drink neat scotch at lunch, it's in one of the political memoirs of the time (David Owen or Alan Clark, perhaps)
Didn't Ken Clarke get through a fair bit of Scotch when delivering his budgets?
Can we call the stuff whisky? We are not in Chicago.
Reading the victim impact statements from Sarah Everard’s family is utterly heartbreaking.
The only thing - one mitigating factor among numerous aggravating factors - in Couzens’ favour, is that he pled guilty and spared that poor family a trial.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Because "GB" was wrong when we first chose it. And now we're switching to "UK" just as we bin off the union. So that Beaker can the Muppet Show can pretend they care.
"Yes Jim Ulsterman, we have made you get a license to ship products from GB to NI. But look - a shiny "UK" badge. So you can Love Us again."
Boris and Lewis are also about to reimpose direct rule by the UK government in NI, once the DUP withdraw from the Stormont executive over the NI protocol in another carrot for Sir Jeffrey and NI Unionists if Boris needs them if he loses his majority in 2023/4
Great! Does that remove the customs border down the Irish Sea?
It really needs both sides to grow up and resolve the issues sensibly and who cares about GE 24 this is now
Or just one side to honour the oven baked deal they negotiated and signed?
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Aye, Roy Jenkins - he of claret fame - and Tony Crosland were other very senior Labour figures and I believe Reggie Maudling on the Tory side was also fond of the occasional snifter. As was Dr Horace King who was Speaker from 1965 to 71. And so on....
Thatcher would drink neat scotch at lunch, it's in one of the political memoirs of the time (David Owen or Alan Clark, perhaps)
Didn't Ken Clarke get through a fair bit of Scotch when delivering his budgets?
Starmer is never going to be a great orator, but that speech was a whole lot better than I was expecting. He looked and sounded like a leader. Overall, Labour leaves Brighton in a better place than it was when it got there. The far-left has been marginalised - by Starmer but also by choice - and today that was made very clear. That message is one that has to be heard before anything else Labour says is going to be even considered. So, a foundation has been laid.
I agree. To those on here calling for mass expulsions of those on the (entryist) far left (who are dwindling in number anyway), it seems to me it is much better that the far left marginalise themselves of their own volition and slip quietly back to where they came from - the SWP etc. Much better than open warfare.
That’s brilliant! (For the artist if not the museum, which now has little choice but to hang a blank canvas to their own idiocy).
Bigger story for them though (possibly bigger draw too) than simply displaying a rehashed version of the artist's earlier work. If I was of a cynical frame of mind, I'd suggest they cooked this up together, free publicity for artist and museum...
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
What is his immigration policy?
I don't know, but presumably one that would Make Brexit Work. It certainly won't be FOM, will it?
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
What is his immigration policy?
"Make immigration work!"
Simple There's probably no area where a similar slogan can't be deployed: "Make petrol stations work!" "Make the government work!" "Make the unemployed work!"
Edit to add: I do think it's not a bad slogan nor a bad mindset. There's no point refighting the lost Brexit war just yet.
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
What is his immigration policy?
"Make immigration work!"
Simple There's probably no area where a similar slogan can't be deployed: "Make petrol stations work!" "Make the government work!" "Make the unemployed work!"
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
What is his immigration policy?
"Make immigration work!"
Simple There's probably no area where a similar slogan can't be deployed: "Make petrol stations work!" "Make the government work!" "Make the unemployed work!"
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
I think you're both right. Wilson was moderate left in the 60's, then the centre of gravity of the Party shifted much further left in the harsher climate of the early 70's, so he was definitely on the right by then. Maybe he shifted a bit towards the right, too, as he was "mugged by reality" in government.
Yes, he was definitely on the right of his party by the time he left the PM job in '76.
Interestingly Tony Benn went on the opposite journey - technocratic right in the 60s, Commie in the 70s and 80s.
I think it is worth looking at the net changes in vote share from 2015 to 2019. The story goes that Jezza was offputting to Lib Dems, but both Labour and the Lib Dems were up on their 2015 vote share.
I think the difference is the redistribution of the UKIP vote, post Brexit - I'd guess that some Remainer Tories went LD, as most Kippers went Tory
GE 2015 Con 36.9% Lab 30.4% LD 7.9% UKIP 12.6%
GE 2019 (change from 2015) Con 43.6% (+6.7) Lab 32.3%(+1.9) LD 11.6% (+3.7) Brexit 2.0% (-10.6)
UKIP was the gateway party for disillusioned labour voters who then went full-on Tory.
But for how long? Labour have been very cannily talking to them all week.
I’ve been posting Labour are stuck mid thirties because of this Lexit problem, after this week I am expecting this to change.
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
What is his immigration policy?
I don't know, but presumably one that would Make Brexit Work. It certainly won't be FOM, will it?
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
What is his immigration policy?
"Make immigration work!"
Simple There's probably no area where a similar slogan can't be deployed: "Make petrol stations work!" "Make the government work!" "Make the unemployed work!"
Edit to add: I do think it's not a bad slogan nor a bad mindset. There's no point refighting the lost Brexit war just yet.
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
What is his immigration policy?
"Make immigration work!"
Simple There's probably no area where a similar slogan can't be deployed: "Make petrol stations work!" "Make the government work!" "Make the unemployed work!"
"Make crime work" ?
Um... Ok, some areas where you have to be a bit cautious about deploying the slogan
Reading the victim impact statements from Sarah Everard’s family is utterly heartbreaking.
The only thing - one mitigating factor among numerous aggravating factors - in Couzens’ favour, is that he pled guilty and spared that poor family a trial.
Hope he never sees the outside world again.
I agree with that, though from what I've read the evidence against him was so overwhelming that I suspect he had no choice but to plead guilty.
So the government have decided to force motorists to now get a UK sticker for their cars when they go abroad as the GB one is no longer valid . I expect this will be pinned on the EU being mean when in fact this is a UK decision and applies all over the world . What is the point of this change .
Because "GB" was wrong when we first chose it. And now we're switching to "UK" just as we bin off the union. So that Beaker can the Muppet Show can pretend they care.
"Yes Jim Ulsterman, we have made you get a license to ship products from GB to NI. But look - a shiny "UK" badge. So you can Love Us again."
Boris and Lewis are also about to reimpose direct rule by the UK government in NI, once the DUP withdraw from the Stormont executive over the NI protocol in another carrot for Sir Jeffrey and NI Unionists if Boris needs them if he loses his majority in 2023/4
Great! Does that remove the customs border down the Irish Sea?
It really needs both sides to grow up and resolve the issues sensibly and who cares about GE 24 this is now
Or just one side to honour the oven baked deal they negotiated and signed?
A friend of a friend is a father, with two late-teenage kids. His wife is an anti-vaxxer, and insists that none of them got the vaccine. She god Covid, and spent a month on a ventilator. She is apparently still an anti-vaxxer.
Eldest daughter got it, and went into hospital for a few days. Youngest daughter did not get it.
The husband did not get it, which his wife thinks is a sign that Covid isn't really that bad (yes, really).
In fact, it's because he secretly got vaccinated months back, without telling her ...
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
I heard 1min 29 seconds of it and he sounded like Ed Miliband but there was plenty of whooping and cheering in the hall which has to be a good thing for Lab.
Reading the victim impact statements from Sarah Everard’s family is utterly heartbreaking.
The only thing - one mitigating factor among numerous aggravating factors - in Couzens’ favour, is that he pled guilty and spared that poor family a trial.
Hope he never sees the outside world again.
I agree with that, though from what I've read the evidence against him was so overwhelming that I suspect he had no choice but to plead guilty.
Urgh, transferred to Igloo a few months ago. Just saw the email from them..
Anyone able to login to them?
Just tried and no.
Their landing page still has 'Energy for the Connected Generation, Switch today and you could save £71* a year'. I sense they have been somewhat overtaken by events.
Guess it is too late to take that recommended screenshot!
Go in on about the 50th go including resetting password and retrieved the last bill. Not been able to submit a meter reading yet.
A friend of a friend is a father, with two late-teenage kids. His wife is an anti-vaxxer, and insists that none of them got the vaccine. She god Covid, and spent a month on a ventilator. She is apparently still an anti-vaxxer.
Eldest daughter got it, and went into hospital for a few days. Youngest daughter did not get it.
The husband did not get it, which his wife thinks is a sign that Covid isn't really that bad (yes, really).
In fact, it's because he secretly got vaccinated months back, without telling her ...
Urgh, transferred to Igloo a few months ago. Just saw the email from them..
Anyone able to login to them?
Just tried and no.
Their landing page still has 'Energy for the Connected Generation, Switch today and you could save £71* a year'. I sense they have been somewhat overtaken by events.
Guess it is too late to take that recommended screenshot!
Go in on about the 50th go including resetting password and retrieved the last bill. Not been able to submit a meter reading yet.
Should I be personally bovvered about this, if all I burn is oil?
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
They are going hard for leave voters (not in that sense Leon).
It’s a difficult slogan for the Tories to rebut - how do they combat it, Brexit is working?
Urgh, transferred to Igloo a few months ago. Just saw the email from them..
Anyone able to login to them?
Just tried and no.
Their landing page still has 'Energy for the Connected Generation, Switch today and you could save £71* a year'. I sense they have been somewhat overtaken by events.
Guess it is too late to take that recommended screenshot!
Go in on about the 50th go including resetting password and retrieved the last bill. Not been able to submit a meter reading yet.
Should I be personally bovvered about this, if all I burn is oil?
No but the posters who initially mentioned they are on Igloo, and other people with them, might be. Or might not.
I doubt people are particularly bothered about most posts people make.
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
They are going hard for leave voters (not in that sense Leon).
It’s a difficult slogan for the Tories to rebut - how do they combat it, Brexit is working?
They just have to point to Sir Keir's attitude 2016-2019; refusal to accept the result, then determination to get an other referendum to which he was committed to Remain, no matter what
Leave was ALL about immigration, and Sir Keir is championing the New Labour regime which introduced the very thing that made the referendum possible, and the Leave win inevitable - don't see how that is courting Leavers, it's reminding them who's fault it was and that he thinks those at fault were the good guys
The people whoop whooping over his speech are committed Remainers!
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
They are going hard for leave voters (not in that sense Leon).
It’s a difficult slogan for the Tories to rebut - how do they combat it, Brexit is working?
The media will probably do the job for the Tories once they start asking the question to EU leaders/politicians.
Said politicians will likely all say "Brexit can't work" and that they'll only engage if Starmer is serious about moving closer to the EU, which gives the Tories the room they need to attack.
A friend of a friend is a father, with two late-teenage kids. His wife is an anti-vaxxer, and insists that none of them got the vaccine. She god Covid, and spent a month on a ventilator. She is apparently still an anti-vaxxer.
Eldest daughter got it, and went into hospital for a few days. Youngest daughter did not get it.
The husband did not get it, which his wife thinks is a sign that Covid isn't really that bad (yes, really).
In fact, it's because he secretly got vaccinated months back, without telling her ...
I wonder if she could be mentally unwell?
Indeed. You can see her logic if you close your eyes and believe in peter pan. Something like: Covid isn't too bad as 50% of us don't get it when its in the household and the other 50% only end up on a ventilator for a month.
Urgh, transferred to Igloo a few months ago. Just saw the email from them..
Anyone able to login to them?
Just tried and no.
Their landing page still has 'Energy for the Connected Generation, Switch today and you could save £71* a year'. I sense they have been somewhat overtaken by events.
Guess it is too late to take that recommended screenshot!
Go in on about the 50th go including resetting password and retrieved the last bill. Not been able to submit a meter reading yet.
Should I be personally bovvered about this, if all I burn is oil?
No but the posters who initially mentioned they are on Igloo, and other people with them, might be. Or might not.
I doubt people are particularly bothered about most posts people make.
I meant about the issue, I wasn't being rude about the post.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Aye, Roy Jenkins - he of claret fame - and Tony Crosland were other very senior Labour figures and I believe Reggie Maudling on the Tory side was also fond of the occasional snifter. As was Dr Horace King who was Speaker from 1965 to 71. And so on....
Thatcher would drink neat scotch at lunch, it's in one of the political memoirs of the time (David Owen or Alan Clark, perhaps)
Didn't Ken Clarke get through a fair bit of Scotch when delivering his budgets?
Can we call the stuff whisky? We are not in Chicago.
We are not in Chicago and that is why we call it Scotch.
ETA maybe the Scots call it whisky? In my very limited experience, a wee dram.
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
How can any snap poll provide an accurate response when only the politically engaged would have heard it
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
Presumably Sir K was cursing the Wayne Cuzon's case this morning. Will take up air time.
It is a bigger news story than Starmer’s speech tbf. A police officer users his badge or uniform to take ladies from the street, who compliantly go along with arrest is utterly chilling. It makes your whole stomach drop out, I can’t read or listen to it. 😢
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
I think Starmer could be the equivalent of Michael Howard, albeit with 1/1000th of the charisma and that's saying something. Even the sainted TB praised MH, saying it was a welcome relief to have a sensible LotO and proper debate. But the public needed more convincing. And more time.
So like Kinnock, SKS is paving the way for someone to come and reap what he has sown.
I think you may be correct
His speech was far too long but he handled the hecklers well
Labour still have a long way to go to regain the voters trust, and Starmer looks as if he may steady the ship but someone else will be needed to bring it safely home to port
Thank goodness no one noticed the fuel queues and will not notice the inflationary pressures on the horizon.
I have no doubt the fuel queues have been noticed by most everyone, and inflation is something the world is facing but one speech does not suddenly make labour electable
They have to persuade people like myself who voted for Blair to do so again
Today was a very small step on that journey
I’m sorry to pop your balloon there G, but your vote is not vitally needed…
That’s Blair Landslide territory, Tories hit by asteroid, as PBs great psephologist HY will quickly point out.
Correct.
BigG voted Labour in 1997 and 2001 but Tory in 2005 I think and has voted Tory since. So if Starmer won BigG's vote he would be heading for a landslide majority of over 100.
The key voters Starmer needs to win therefore are those who voted Labour in 2005 as well as in 1997 and 2001 but switched to voting Tory in 2010 for Cameron and have voted Tory ever since.
Are there any PBers who meet that description as they are the key swing voters Starmer needs to win to become PM? If so would be interesting to see what they thought of his speech
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
How can any snap poll provide an accurate response when only the politically engaged would have heard it
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
Presumably Sir K was cursing the Wayne Cuzon's case this morning. Will take up air time.
It is a bigger news story than Starmer’s speech tbf. A police offer users his badge or uniform to take ladies from the street, who compliantly go along with arrest is utterly chilling. It makes your whole stomach drop out, I can’t read or listen to it. 😢
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
How utterly horrific is that Sarah Everard news? Why would anyone, male or female, not resist arrest in the future on the back of this?
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
I think Starmer could be the equivalent of Michael Howard, albeit with 1/1000th of the charisma and that's saying something. Even the sainted TB praised MH, saying it was a welcome relief to have a sensible LotO and proper debate. But the public needed more convincing. And more time.
So like Kinnock, SKS is paving the way for someone to come and reap what he has sown.
I think you may be correct
His speech was far too long but he handled the hecklers well
Labour still have a long way to go to regain the voters trust, and Starmer looks as if he may steady the ship but someone else will be needed to bring it safely home to port
Thank goodness no one noticed the fuel queues and will not notice the inflationary pressures on the horizon.
I heard the word "stagflation" on R4 this morning. Possibly for the first time in decades.
I think Starmer could be the equivalent of Michael Howard, albeit with 1/1000th of the charisma and that's saying something. Even the sainted TB praised MH, saying it was a welcome relief to have a sensible LotO and proper debate. But the public needed more convincing. And more time.
So like Kinnock, SKS is paving the way for someone to come and reap what he has sown.
I think you may be correct
His speech was far too long but he handled the hecklers well
Labour still have a long way to go to regain the voters trust, and Starmer looks as if he may steady the ship but someone else will be needed to bring it safely home to port
Thank goodness no one noticed the fuel queues and will not notice the inflationary pressures on the horizon.
I have no doubt the fuel queues have been noticed by most everyone, and inflation is something the world is facing but one speech does not suddenly make labour electable
They have to persuade people like myself who voted for Blair to do so again
Today was a very small step on that journey
I’m sorry to pop your balloon there G, but your vote is not vitally needed…
That’s Blair Landslide territory, Tories hit by asteroid, as PBs great psephologist HY will quickly point out.
Correct.
BigG voted Labour in 1997 and 2001 but Tory in 2005 I think and has voted Tory since. So if Starmer won BigG's vote he would be heading for a landslide majority of over 100.
The key voters Starmer needs to win therefore are those who voted Labour in 2005 as well as in 1997 and 2001 but switched to voting Tory in 2010 for Cameron and have voted Tory ever since.
Are there any PBers who meet that description as they are the key swing voters Starmer needs to win to become PM? If so would be interesting to see what they thought of his speech
Well I voted Labour in 1997, sat out 2001, Lib-Dem in 2005 and Con in 2010, 2015, 2017 and 2019 general elections.
Oh and I didn't hear Starmer's speech but I'd never vote for him in a general election.
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
They are going hard for leave voters (not in that sense Leon).
It’s a difficult slogan for the Tories to rebut - how do they combat it, Brexit is working?
They just have to point to Sir Keir's attitude 2016-2019; refusal to accept the result, then determination to get an other referendum to which he was committed to Remain, no matter what
Leave was ALL about immigration, and Sir Keir is championing the New Labour regime which introduced the very thing that made the referendum possible, and the Leave win inevitable - don't see how that is courting Leavers, it's reminding them who's fault it was and that he thinks those at fault were the good guys
The people whoop whooping over his speech are committed Remainers!
You might be right…
However, PBs great Libertarian Economist Phillip Thompson does make the point about voters being fickle and ungrateful. How long does the red wall, without much record of voting Tory, spur Kier Labours courtship and sweet words at them if they don’t see change for the better, in fact feel worse off and sense the country going down the u bend?
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
How can any snap poll provide an accurate response when only the politically engaged would have heard it
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
Presumably Sir K was cursing the Wayne Cuzon's case this morning. Will take up air time.
It is a bigger news story than Starmer’s speech tbf. A police offer users his badge or uniform to take ladies from the street, who compliantly go along with arrest is utterly chilling. It makes your whole stomach drop out, I can’t read or listen to it. 😢
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
How utterly horrific is that Sarah Everard news? Why would anyone, male or female, not resist arrest in the future on the back of this?
That case was 'arrest' by a single cop. Two of them (esp if one is female) is inherently safer, but not 100% [edit] if only on strict logic.
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
How can any snap poll provide an accurate response when only the politically engaged would have heard it
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
Presumably Sir K was cursing the Wayne Cuzon's case this morning. Will take up air time.
It is a bigger news story than Starmer’s speech tbf. A police officer users his badge or uniform to take ladies from the street, who compliantly go along with arrest is utterly chilling. It makes your whole stomach drop out, I can’t read or listen to it. 😢
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
Looking at what happened, I would not be surprised if this wasn't Couzens first attack. Perhaps his first murder, but not the first time he's offended. I hope they're digging deep into both his police arrests and unsolved crimes...
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
How can any snap poll provide an accurate response when only the politically engaged would have heard it
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
Presumably Sir K was cursing the Wayne Cuzon's case this morning. Will take up air time.
It is a bigger news story than Starmer’s speech tbf. A police offer users his badge or uniform to take ladies from the street, who compliantly go along with arrest is utterly chilling. It makes your whole stomach drop out, I can’t read or listen to it. 😢
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
How utterly horrific is that Sarah Everard news? Why would anyone, male or female, not resist arrest in the future on the back of this?
The police have a credibility problem, for sure. But resisting arrest is almost certainly asking for trouble.
The “Wayne Couzens” defence ain’t gonna get you very far.
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
How can any snap poll provide an accurate response when only the politically engaged would have heard it
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
Presumably Sir K was cursing the Wayne Cuzon's case this morning. Will take up air time.
It is a bigger news story than Starmer’s speech tbf. A police offer users his badge or uniform to take ladies from the street, who compliantly go along with arrest is utterly chilling. It makes your whole stomach drop out, I can’t read or listen to it. 😢
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
How utterly horrific is that Sarah Everard news? Why would anyone, male or female, not resist arrest in the future on the back of this?
Because resist and you have a significant chance of extra charges and will get caught eventually or have to live on the run for many years. Don't resist you have a tiny chance of it being a rogue cop planning to attack you.
It is a simple gamble with the don't resist side clearly superior for nearly everyone. It is a terrible case and police do need reform (any other PCs nicknamed the rapist or similar should not be working!), but it doesn't help to make it into something it is not.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Are you sure?
Makes their performances even more depressing doesn't it?
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
How can any snap poll provide an accurate response when only the politically engaged would have heard it
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
Presumably Sir K was cursing the Wayne Cuzon's case this morning. Will take up air time.
It is a bigger news story than Starmer’s speech tbf. A police offer users his badge or uniform to take ladies from the street, who compliantly go along with arrest is utterly chilling. It makes your whole stomach drop out, I can’t read or listen to it. 😢
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
How utterly horrific is that Sarah Everard news? Why would anyone, male or female, not resist arrest in the future on the back of this?
That case was 'arrest' by a single cop. Two of them (esp if one is female) is inherently safer, but not 100% [edit] if only on strict logic.
Just remember the police think NOT sacking this cop was a good idea.
Police officer caught on camera threatening to 'make something up' to arrest man allowed to keep job
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
How can any snap poll provide an accurate response when only the politically engaged would have heard it
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
Presumably Sir K was cursing the Wayne Cuzon's case this morning. Will take up air time.
It is a bigger news story than Starmer’s speech tbf. A police offer users his badge or uniform to take ladies from the street, who compliantly go along with arrest is utterly chilling. It makes your whole stomach drop out, I can’t read or listen to it. 😢
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
How utterly horrific is that Sarah Everard news? Why would anyone, male or female, not resist arrest in the future on the back of this?
The police have a credibility problem, for sure. But resisting arrest is almost certainly asking for trouble.
The lawyer of the next scumbag done for resisting arrest, is going to have a field day with the police.
Why should anyone trust one policeman on his own, now that a scumbag officer used his warrant card to murder a random person picked off the street?
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
How can any snap poll provide an accurate response when only the politically engaged would have heard it
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
Presumably Sir K was cursing the Wayne Cuzon's case this morning. Will take up air time.
It is a bigger news story than Starmer’s speech tbf. A police offer users his badge or uniform to take ladies from the street, who compliantly go along with arrest is utterly chilling. It makes your whole stomach drop out, I can’t read or listen to it. 😢
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
How utterly horrific is that Sarah Everard news? Why would anyone, male or female, not resist arrest in the future on the back of this?
That case was 'arrest' by a single cop. Two of them (esp if one is female) is inherently safer, but not 100% [edit] if only on strict logic.
Just remember the police think NOT sacking this cop was a good idea.
Police officer caught on camera threatening to 'make something up' to arrest man allowed to keep job
Not always. when a friend committed suicide a few years back, the Cambridgeshire police who dealt with me were professional, polite and caring. It can't have been easy for them, and I sent a note of thanks to the police station.
A while later, I got a call back from a high-ranking officer thanking me for the note, and saying it was rare to get a thankyou note. Again, that was appreciated.
Incidentally, I think Starmer's Make Brexit Work is a slogan that could run - a simple but clever antidote to Get Brexit Done - that wouldn't piss of leave voters.
They are going hard for leave voters (not in that sense Leon).
It’s a difficult slogan for the Tories to rebut - how do they combat it, Brexit is working?
They just have to point to Sir Keir's attitude 2016-2019; refusal to accept the result, then determination to get an other referendum to which he was committed to Remain, no matter what
Leave was ALL about immigration, and Sir Keir is championing the New Labour regime which introduced the very thing that made the referendum possible, and the Leave win inevitable - don't see how that is courting Leavers, it's reminding them who's fault it was and that he thinks those at fault were the good guys
The people whoop whooping over his speech are committed Remainers!
Many PB Leavers dispute that immigration was the driver. They say it was about all sorts of other things such as cutting Brussels red tape and being "nimble" on foreign & trade policy.
If Starmer is a loser, what was Corbyn? He lost Labour their heartlands, and led the party to their worst result since before the Second World War.
I mean, it's possible that the country is just begging for some hard left solutions. But there doesn't seem to be any actual evidence of that.
Labour won elections - in my lifetime - under Blair and under Wilson. When was the last time (if any) that someone from the left of the party led them to electoral success?
Wilson was on the moderate left of the party, he won a clear win in 1966 and a small win in 1974
No he wasn't. He was very definitely on the right of the party.
No he was on the centre left.
In the 1963 Labour leadership election Wilson was the main centre left candidate while George Brown and Jim Callaghan, his main rivals, were the candidates of the Labour right
Actually, you're right. Both Brown and Wilson were more to the right.
Indeed and most of the Gaitskellites voted for Callaghan. Brown's serious drink problems and the aggressive behaviour that went with it was well-known in the PLP and on the Tory side too (Macmillan's diaries are coruscating): he was wholly unsuited to be Leader.
One thing that leaps out to me from reading about the politics of the 1970s is the very hard drinking.
I'm not just talking about the evenings. Harold Wilson would often have sunk a couple of brandies by 11am, and other cabinet ministers sozzled by early afternoon, and obviously inebriated at the dispatch box.
Just wouldn't happen now.
Aye, Roy Jenkins - he of claret fame - and Tony Crosland were other very senior Labour figures and I believe Reggie Maudling on the Tory side was also fond of the occasional snifter. As was Dr Horace King who was Speaker from 1965 to 71. And so on....
Thatcher would drink neat scotch at lunch, it's in one of the political memoirs of the time (David Owen or Alan Clark, perhaps)
Didn't Ken Clarke get through a fair bit of Scotch when delivering his budgets?
Can we call the stuff whisky? We are not in Chicago.
We are not in Chicago and that is why we call it Scotch.
ETA maybe the Scots call it whisky? In my very limited experience, a wee dram.
This is a weirdo PB thing (or maybe it's just Ishmael).
For some reason, some people take umbrage with the precision.
Of course, Scotch is fine – and offers more detail. There are several types of whisk(e)y, chiefly Scotch, Irish, American Rye and Bourbon... (but also Welsh, English, Japanese...)
What is going to make an impact on Labour in the polls, is how this is reported.
"The left vs Keir Starmer", he'll get a big increase in support, I think.
Nothing to do with the fuel crisis then all down to this riveting performance
You are changing the rules.
Everyone knows Governments lose elections, Oppositions don't win them, but for you this won't count in Starmer's case... should it happen.
Well todays YG says SKS has gone backward on every measure so if the fuel crisis gives them a temporary lead it is down to temporary factors and will be temporary.
SKs is a loser and Pete I believe if you were honest you believe the same.
Andy Burnham would be 20pts ahead in the Polls IMO
There would be a shortage of eyeliner if Burnham was on telly regularly.n
A friend of a friend is a father, with two late-teenage kids. His wife is an anti-vaxxer, and insists that none of them got the vaccine. She god Covid, and spent a month on a ventilator. She is apparently still an anti-vaxxer.
Eldest daughter got it, and went into hospital for a few days. Youngest daughter did not get it.
The husband did not get it, which his wife thinks is a sign that Covid isn't really that bad (yes, really).
In fact, it's because he secretly got vaccinated months back, without telling her ...
I wonder if she could be mentally unwell?
Well, she's certainly not *rational*.
The funny thing is, apparently many of his friends know he's been vaccinated, and it's only a matter of time before she finds out. There may be troubles ahead ...
Comments
Possibly for the first time in decades.
Especially if Boris is still in charge.
Which the SNP will have spotted too.
Their landing page still has 'Energy for the Connected Generation, Switch today and you could save £71* a year'.
I sense they have been somewhat overtaken by events.
Covid is not defeated. Tho it is in slow retreat, inshallah
They have to persuade people like myself who voted for Blair to do so again
Today was a very small step on that journey
The article on Guam isn't written very well, the numbers point to high vaccine efficacy whereas the narrative is all doom and gloom.
Another point the 554 infected and vaccinated in August now have hybrid immunity, and the 1,211 are protected to some degree by infection.
If Covid was killing people with hybrid immunity in huge numbers that would be a err problem, but I haven't seen evidence of that anywhere.
That’s Blair Landslide territory, Tories hit by asteroid, as PBs great psephologist HY will quickly point out.
I note this change still doesn't mean you need a sticker if you change your plates to one with the union flag on and "UK", but still annoying for anyone who updated it after Brexit.
The energy regulator Ofgem said today that Igloo Energy, Symbio Energy and ENSTROGA have stopped trading."
Telegraph blog
On basis inflation looks nailed on, but growth could be lumpy, likely the odd ups and downs back in sixties and seventies.
Is it measurements like this that made them called the swinging sixties?
The only thing - one mitigating factor among numerous aggravating factors - in Couzens’ favour, is that he pled guilty and spared that poor family a trial.
Hope he never sees the outside world again.
Simple
"Make petrol stations work!"
"Make the government work!"
"Make the unemployed work!"
Edit to add: I do think it's not a bad slogan nor a bad mindset. There's no point refighting the lost Brexit war just yet.
Is it any worse than a signed urinal or a shredded drawing?
I’ve been posting Labour are stuck mid thirties because of this Lexit problem, after this week I am expecting this to change.
"Boris says eveything is fine".....
"He's panic lying".
But what did the public make of Starmer's speech?
Our snap poll is now in field. Results soon!
https://twitter.com/chriscurtis94/status/1443230894295224325?s=20
Wonder how many "don't knows"/"haven't heard it" they'll get?
A vaccines work anecdote.
A friend of a friend is a father, with two late-teenage kids. His wife is an anti-vaxxer, and insists that none of them got the vaccine. She god Covid, and spent a month on a ventilator. She is apparently still an anti-vaxxer.
Eldest daughter got it, and went into hospital for a few days. Youngest daughter did not get it.
The husband did not get it, which his wife thinks is a sign that Covid isn't really that bad (yes, really).
In fact, it's because he secretly got vaccinated months back, without telling her ...
Let’s hope for a very windy winter…
https://www.theice.com/products/910/UK-Natural-Gas-Futures/data?marketId=5188708&span=2
And Sky barely covered it in what is a big news day
It’s a difficult slogan for the Tories to rebut - how do they combat it, Brexit is working?
I doubt people are particularly bothered about most posts people make.
https://www.epexspot.com/en/market-data?market_area=GB&trading_date=2021-09-29&delivery_date=2021-09-30&underlying_year=&modality=Auction&sub_modality=DayAhead&product=60&data_mode=graph&period=year
n.b. GB is in £ and everyone else €
Leave was ALL about immigration, and Sir Keir is championing the New Labour regime which introduced the very thing that made the referendum possible, and the Leave win inevitable - don't see how that is courting Leavers, it's reminding them who's fault it was and that he thinks those at fault were the good guys
The people whoop whooping over his speech are committed Remainers!
Said politicians will likely all say "Brexit can't work" and that they'll only engage if Starmer is serious about moving closer to the EU, which gives the Tories the room they need to attack.
I don't know why any of us were worried.
ETA maybe the Scots call it whisky? In my very limited experience, a wee dram.
Blair had to contend with the OJ jury announcing its verdict.
These snap in middle conference polls always positive bounce, but Big G is right, inaccurate, only in polls after conference season do we understand if the season changed anything.
BigG voted Labour in 1997 and 2001 but Tory in 2005 I think and has voted Tory since. So if Starmer won BigG's vote he would be heading for a landslide majority of over 100.
The key voters Starmer needs to win therefore are those who voted Labour in 2005 as well as in 1997 and 2001 but switched to voting Tory in 2010 for Cameron and have voted Tory ever since.
Are there any PBers who meet that description as they are the key swing voters Starmer needs to win to become PM? If so would be interesting to see what they thought of his speech
Oh and I didn't hear Starmer's speech but I'd never vote for him in a general election.
I could see myself voting for Burnham though...
However, PBs great Libertarian Economist Phillip Thompson does make the point about voters being fickle and ungrateful. How long does the red wall, without much record of voting Tory, spur Kier Labours courtship and sweet words at them if they don’t see change for the better, in fact feel worse off and sense the country going down the u bend?
@DavidHerdson
4h
Not many masks on show at the #LabourConference, in sharp contrast to in parliament.
Rather suggests that the MPs' efforts are for show, and the stance gets dropped when there aren't Tories to contrast against.
The “Wayne Couzens” defence ain’t gonna get you very far.
It is a simple gamble with the don't resist side clearly superior for nearly everyone. It is a terrible case and police do need reform (any other PCs nicknamed the rapist or similar should not be working!), but it doesn't help to make it into something it is not.
Police officer caught on camera threatening to 'make something up' to arrest man allowed to keep job
https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/uk-news/police-officer-caught-camera-threatening-21438074
The police deserve nothing but opprobrium.
Why should anyone trust one policeman on his own, now that a scumbag officer used his warrant card to murder a random person picked off the street?
Or, having spent the whole night before rammed up against each other in packed bars and clubs, it seemed pointless in the hall?
A while later, I got a call back from a high-ranking officer thanking me for the note, and saying it was rare to get a thankyou note. Again, that was appreciated.
They renewed the term of that [another moderated] Cressida Dick.
Fuck Brexit, Boris Johnson deserves to be ousted for that alone.
For some reason, some people take umbrage with the precision.
Of course, Scotch is fine – and offers more detail. There are several types of whisk(e)y, chiefly Scotch, Irish, American Rye and Bourbon... (but also Welsh, English, Japanese...)
The funny thing is, apparently many of his friends know he's been vaccinated, and it's only a matter of time before she finds out. There may be troubles ahead ...
https://www.time1075.net/172004-2-romford-debenhams-to-become-superstore/
There's mention of a prayer room on the website https://akluplaza.co.uk/ but not much space for it in the floor plans.
Otherwise, it sounds like a version of the Shopping Hall that happens to be run by some successful Asian shopkeepers. Best of luck to them.
Better that than another empty shell like the adjacent Littlewoods/Index site. That's been abandoned for nearly 20 years.
So new businesses that will attract people to Romford, unless they're allergic to Asians. Sounds like good news, eh?