F1: for anyone wondering there will not be a pre-qualifying ramble, as it's a Friday, which means I'm doing some work, shockingly.
I'll do it for you - Monza is a fast track where fast cars go varoom, varoom.
Expect the obvious suspects (Mercedes, Red Bull, Toro Rosso, Ferrari, Mclaren) to get into Q3 as there is little chance slower cars (Williams) will get there.
"Gerard Baker Awful truth about 9/11: the terrorists won The war on terror weakened America and cost far more in money, lives and foreign policy distractions than it gained" (£)
They got him via an ISI walk in to the US embassy in islamabad who wanted the $25m reward. It didn't require a $2 trillion 20 year occupation of a completely different country.
Yeah but if they didn't invade Afghanistan, he'd still be living in his luxury mountain fortress...
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I wonder what the sight of parents wearing masks for no particular reason does to small children. We will I suppose have to wait for any conclusions and those will be hazy at best.
Absolutely none at all, would be my guess. Especially as kids will be well aware that there was a reason, and may even know people who have the virus at the moment, or people who are off school because of it.
I'm not at all sure 0-4 year olds will grasp the 'reason', however convenient for you it is for you to believe that.
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I wonder what the sight of parents wearing masks for no particular reason does to small children. We will I suppose have to wait for any conclusions and those will be hazy at best.
Do you have the same worries about parents wearing scarves or sunglasses? What about a very bushy moustache?
Sozza only looking for non-twattish answers to this.
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I wonder what the sight of parents wearing masks for no particular reason does to small children. We will I suppose have to wait for any conclusions and those will be hazy at best.
Absolutely none at all, would be my guess. Especially as kids will be well aware that there was a reason, and may even know people who have the virus at the moment, or people who are off school because of it.
"Absolutely none"
There you go. My view is that there will be some psychological damage to children to see adults wearing masks when not necessary and yours is that there will be absolutely none. All good as far as it goes.
But let's look at the scenario if we are wrong (perish the thought).
If I am wrong then that is brilliant - no psychological damage. If you are wrong, however, then that is not so good - children do suffer psychological damage from seeing adults wearing masks unnecessarily.
It was common pre-pandemic to see Asian visitors in the UK wearing masks. Did you think children seeing them suffered psychological damage?
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I absolutely defend your right to choose, but I'd challenge your 'harmless' contention.
Mask wearing is not harmless, it is a trade-off of harm vs spreading the virus.
Humans are not meant to wander around with their faces covered. The face, and seeing each other's expressions, are the fundamental tenets of building trust, both with strangers and acquaintances.
The idea that mask-wearing is a zero-downside practice is deeply wrong, and flies in the face of decades of psychological research that shows that looking people – quite literally – in the mouth is a vital function of all human relationships.
I'll have to remember to 'look you in the mouth' if we ever meet, and give your teeth a good inspection
A flippant response to a fair argument from me.
What do you think of my point?
I am not wearing a mask 99% of the time. I choose to wear a mask for very small periods. I fail to see how the people I meet should be horrified because I'm wearing a mask. Particularly when a pandemic is still raging.
I understand your view, but - sadly - these are still not 'ordinary' times.
And BTW, when the pandemic's over, if I get a cough or cold I'll probably start wearing a mask again if I'm out and about amongst people. I daresay Philip would call that 'moronic' ...
If you know you have a cold, no I wouldn't. Similarly if you knew you had Covid I wouldn't say it.
If you start wearing it every day, even when you don't have a cold, then yes I would call it that.
The face, and seeing each other's expressions, are the fundamental tenets of building trust, both with strangers and acquaintances.
Your local supermarket is probably full of security cameras trained on every aisle, and will have been long before the pandemic. Not sure what that says about the fundamental tenet of trust.
I see that Channel 4 are holding a no whites allowed day. A beautiful moment for racial equality and desegregation.
Thank god it's getting sold.
Really? How is that supposed to help anything? I aspire to a colour blind society.
"I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Martin Luther King, Jr.
If you're going to quote Martin Luther King whilst discussing this issue, it might be useful to know that he supported affirmative action.
Yes. He's becoming the new Orwell. Quoted out of context to prove the opposite of what he believed.
Gonna have to stop you there, if that's a coded claim that Orwell genuinely had it in for the right but was only kidding about the left. Wrong.
His great fault was that he was a house-trained nihilist, deep down. Very difficult to pin down what he was in favour of.
No I'm not claiming that. But there is no doubt he was a man of the Left. The far Left in many ways. Although deep down an iconoclast. His great attribute was to apply this equally, without fear or favour. He never spared his own side from criticism to advance a political point. A very rare attribute. He despaired of the moderate timidity of Attlee for example. I seriously doubt he ever considered a Tory vote.
All I can be sure about is that he volunteered to fight "fascism" (I won't get into the debate about whether Franco was fascist). That's a decent enough start, and should be good enough for all most of us.
He also joined the Independent Labour Party in 1938. Which would be a curious move for a non-left person.
I don't think there is a scintilla of doubt that he is of the left or his views and beliefs accord with those of the left. As I am re-reading Road to Wigan Pier this very minute I don't think anyone should be in doubt of this.
But apart from @Ishmael_Z saying it was difficult to pin down what he believes in, which is a fair point to make as there is more description than solution, I don't think anyone has said he or his views are not "of the left".
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I absolutely defend your right to choose, but I'd challenge your 'harmless' contention.
Mask wearing is not harmless, it is a trade-off of harm vs spreading the virus.
Humans are not meant to wander around with their faces covered. The face, and seeing each other's expressions, are the fundamental tenets of building trust, both with strangers and acquaintances.
The idea that mask-wearing is a zero-downside practice is deeply wrong, and flies in the face of decades of psychological research that shows that looking people – quite literally – in the mouth is a vital function of all human relationships.
I'll have to remember to 'look you in the mouth' if we ever meet, and give your teeth a good inspection
You should, that's how we communicate.
My youngest daughter is currently undergoing speech therapy because she doesn't enunciate all her sounds properly, and the wearing of masks at school through her reception year when school wasn't locked down etc has really been counterproductive. Her teacher's been cursing it whenever we speak on the subject, quite rightly saying you can't teach phonics properly with a mask on.
I don't really think about how you make certain sounds, you just do, but children learn from looking at your teeth etc while you speak. So we're currently working on the 'f' sound which requires putting your top teeth on your bottom lip "like a bunny" and blowing. Our advice is to try and practice this as much as possible with her, and to make a point of showing the teeth when doing so.
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I absolutely defend your right to choose, but I'd challenge your 'harmless' contention.
Mask wearing is not harmless, it is a trade-off of harm vs spreading the virus.
Humans are not meant to wander around with their faces covered. The face, and seeing each other's expressions, are the fundamental tenets of building trust, both with strangers and acquaintances.
The idea that mask-wearing is a zero-downside practice is deeply wrong, and flies in the face of decades of psychological research that shows that looking people – quite literally – in the mouth is a vital function of all human relationships.
I'll have to remember to 'look you in the mouth' if we ever meet, and give your teeth a good inspection
You should, that's how we communicate.
My youngest daughter is currently undergoing speech therapy because she doesn't enunciate all her sounds properly, and the wearing of masks at school through her reception year when school wasn't locked down etc has really been counterproductive. Her teacher's been cursing it whenever we speak on the subject, quite rightly saying you can't teach phonics properly with a mask on.
I don't really think about how you make certain sounds, you just do, but children learn from looking at your teeth etc while you speak. So we're currently working on the 'f' sound which requires putting your top teeth on your bottom lip "like a bunny" and blowing. Our advice is to try and practice this as much as possible with her, and to make a point of showing the teeth when doing so.
I'm sorry your daughter is going through that. If it helps, I underwent many years of speech therapy, and still do not speak perfectly. In fact, I didn't speak at all until I was five. It's not affected my life much at all (except for the fact I never shut up).
But I fail to see why wearing a mask in a shop would cause any difficulty.
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I absolutely defend your right to choose, but I'd challenge your 'harmless' contention.
Mask wearing is not harmless, it is a trade-off of harm vs spreading the virus.
Humans are not meant to wander around with their faces covered. The face, and seeing each other's expressions, are the fundamental tenets of building trust, both with strangers and acquaintances.
The idea that mask-wearing is a zero-downside practice is deeply wrong, and flies in the face of decades of psychological research that shows that looking people – quite literally – in the mouth is a vital function of all human relationships.
I'll have to remember to 'look you in the mouth' if we ever meet, and give your teeth a good inspection
A flippant response to a fair argument from me.
What do you think of my point?
I am not wearing a mask 99% of the time. I choose to wear a mask for very small periods. I fail to see how the people I meet should be horrified because I'm wearing a mask. Particularly when a pandemic is still raging.
I understand your view, but - sadly - these are still not 'ordinary' times.
And BTW, when the pandemic's over, if I get a cough or cold I'll probably start wearing a mask again if I'm out and about amongst people. I daresay Philip would call that 'moronic' ...
Would you wear a mask in such circumstances because you think your cough and cold might be Delta or another mass-killing virus, or because you wouldn't want to spread your cough or cold to others?
If the latter then that really is a substantial and fundamental shift in behavioural patterns.
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I wonder what the sight of parents wearing masks for no particular reason does to small children. We will I suppose have to wait for any conclusions and those will be hazy at best.
Do you have the same worries about parents wearing scarves or sunglasses? What about a very bushy moustache?
Sozza only looking for non-twattish answers to this.
I am expecting a big increase in clowns as a result of babies seeing adults wearing masks. So at least we will have a wide selection of potential Boris-like PM candidates come 2067.
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I absolutely defend your right to choose, but I'd challenge your 'harmless' contention.
Mask wearing is not harmless, it is a trade-off of harm vs spreading the virus.
Humans are not meant to wander around with their faces covered. The face, and seeing each other's expressions, are the fundamental tenets of building trust, both with strangers and acquaintances.
The idea that mask-wearing is a zero-downside practice is deeply wrong, and flies in the face of decades of psychological research that shows that looking people – quite literally – in the mouth is a vital function of all human relationships.
I'll have to remember to 'look you in the mouth' if we ever meet, and give your teeth a good inspection
A flippant response to a fair argument from me.
What do you think of my point?
I am not wearing a mask 99% of the time. I choose to wear a mask for very small periods. I fail to see how the people I meet should be horrified because I'm wearing a mask. Particularly when a pandemic is still raging.
I understand your view, but - sadly - these are still not 'ordinary' times.
And BTW, when the pandemic's over, if I get a cough or cold I'll probably start wearing a mask again if I'm out and about amongst people. I daresay Philip would call that 'moronic' ...
Actually, I think when you are coughing and spluttering wearing a mask is a good idea. Although a better one would be to stay at home and get better rather than spreading your germs to others.
The face, and seeing each other's expressions, are the fundamental tenets of building trust, both with strangers and acquaintances.
Your local supermarket is probably full of security cameras trained on every aisle, and will have been long before the pandemic. Not sure what that says about the fundamental tenet of trust.
"Gerard Baker Awful truth about 9/11: the terrorists won The war on terror weakened America and cost far more in money, lives and foreign policy distractions than it gained" (£)
They got him via an ISI walk in to the US embassy in islamabad who wanted the $25m reward. It didn't require a $2 trillion 20 year occupation of a completely different country.
Yeah but if they didn't invade Afghanistan, he'd still be living in his luxury mountain fortress...
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I absolutely defend your right to choose, but I'd challenge your 'harmless' contention.
Mask wearing is not harmless, it is a trade-off of harm vs spreading the virus.
Humans are not meant to wander around with their faces covered. The face, and seeing each other's expressions, are the fundamental tenets of building trust, both with strangers and acquaintances.
The idea that mask-wearing is a zero-downside practice is deeply wrong, and flies in the face of decades of psychological research that shows that looking people – quite literally – in the mouth is a vital function of all human relationships.
I'll have to remember to 'look you in the mouth' if we ever meet, and give your teeth a good inspection
A flippant response to a fair argument from me.
What do you think of my point?
I am not wearing a mask 99% of the time. I choose to wear a mask for very small periods. I fail to see how the people I meet should be horrified because I'm wearing a mask. Particularly when a pandemic is still raging.
I understand your view, but - sadly - these are still not 'ordinary' times.
And BTW, when the pandemic's over, if I get a cough or cold I'll probably start wearing a mask again if I'm out and about amongst people. I daresay Philip would call that 'moronic' ...
If you know you have a cold, no I wouldn't. Similarly if you knew you had Covid I wouldn't say it.
If you start wearing it every day, even when you don't have a cold, then yes I would call it that.
In the middle of a pandemic, with over 100 people dying a day from the lurgy, I'd say your view is utterly wrong.
Not the fact you don't wear a mask: the fact that you feel people who choose to as being moronic.
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I wonder what the sight of parents wearing masks for no particular reason does to small children. We will I suppose have to wait for any conclusions and those will be hazy at best.
Absolutely none at all, would be my guess. Especially as kids will be well aware that there was a reason, and may even know people who have the virus at the moment, or people who are off school because of it.
"Absolutely none"
There you go. My view is that there will be some psychological damage to children to see adults wearing masks when not necessary and yours is that there will be absolutely none. All good as far as it goes.
But let's look at the scenario if we are wrong (perish the thought).
If I am wrong then that is brilliant - no psychological damage. If you are wrong, however, then that is not so good - children do suffer psychological damage from seeing adults wearing masks unnecessarily.
It was common pre-pandemic to see Asian visitors in the UK wearing masks. Did you think children seeing them suffered psychological damage?
Yes. Who are these people who perceive that life requires abnormal and unnecessary levels of protection would I imagine be a typical response from a child.
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I absolutely defend your right to choose, but I'd challenge your 'harmless' contention.
Mask wearing is not harmless, it is a trade-off of harm vs spreading the virus.
Humans are not meant to wander around with their faces covered. The face, and seeing each other's expressions, are the fundamental tenets of building trust, both with strangers and acquaintances.
The idea that mask-wearing is a zero-downside practice is deeply wrong, and flies in the face of decades of psychological research that shows that looking people – quite literally – in the mouth is a vital function of all human relationships.
I'll have to remember to 'look you in the mouth' if we ever meet, and give your teeth a good inspection
A flippant response to a fair argument from me.
What do you think of my point?
I am not wearing a mask 99% of the time. I choose to wear a mask for very small periods. I fail to see how the people I meet should be horrified because I'm wearing a mask. Particularly when a pandemic is still raging.
I understand your view, but - sadly - these are still not 'ordinary' times.
And BTW, when the pandemic's over, if I get a cough or cold I'll probably start wearing a mask again if I'm out and about amongst people. I daresay Philip would call that 'moronic' ...
Actually, I think when you are coughing and spluttering wearing a mask is a good idea. Although a better one would be to stay at home and get better rather than spreading your germs to others.
I agree staying at home is better - and one of the things that will come out of this pandemic is that people going into work sniffling will be very frowned upon. But sometimes you cannot stay in: e.g. if you need to pick a kid up from school.
I see that Channel 4 are holding a no whites allowed day. A beautiful moment for racial equality and desegregation.
Thank god it's getting sold.
Really? How is that supposed to help anything? I aspire to a colour blind society.
"I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Martin Luther King, Jr.
If you're going to quote Martin Luther King whilst discussing this issue, it might be useful to know that he supported affirmative action.
Yes. He's becoming the new Orwell. Quoted out of context to prove the opposite of what he believed.
Gonna have to stop you there, if that's a coded claim that Orwell genuinely had it in for the right but was only kidding about the left. Wrong.
His great fault was that he was a house-trained nihilist, deep down. Very difficult to pin down what he was in favour of.
No I'm not claiming that. But there is no doubt he was a man of the Left. The far Left in many ways. Although deep down an iconoclast. His great attribute was to apply this equally, without fear or favour. He never spared his own side from criticism to advance a political point. A very rare attribute. He despaired of the moderate timidity of Attlee for example. I seriously doubt he ever considered a Tory vote.
All I can be sure about is that he volunteered to fight "fascism" (I won't get into the debate about whether Franco was fascist). That's a decent enough start, and should be good enough for all most of us.
He also joined the Independent Labour Party in 1938. Which would be a curious move for a non-left person.
I don't think there is a scintilla of doubt that he is of the left or his views and beliefs accord with those of the left. As I am re-reading Road to Wigan Pier this very minute I don't think anyone should be in doubt of this.
But apart from @Ishmael_Z saying it was difficult to pin down what he believes in, which is a fair point to make as there is more description than solution, I don't think anyone has said he or his views are not "of the left".
Road to Wigan Pier is a great book. And rattlingly readable. It was also my paternal grandad's life. I never met him, as he was long dead before I was born. That book succintly explains why that was.
The gasthof built on the ruins of some Nazi building or other in Obersalzburg certainly serves a hearty lunch. Plenty of masks here; everyone puts one on the minute they stand up from the table, even though we are outside. The accordion music is very, err, jolly. But it is super hot and sunny, even half way up the mountain. There's a covid quicktestingstation in a kiosk in the car park, free and no appointment needed. I have seen these everywhere; they may not be testing as many (though our figures include lots of schoolchildren?) but it is certainly super easy to get a quick test when out shopping, if you want.
On topic, current trends suggest London will remain beyond the Tories' reach, so there may not be much value in backing individual Tories so far out, with the additional risk of their own personal circumstances ruling them out of the race?
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I wonder what the sight of parents wearing masks for no particular reason does to small children. We will I suppose have to wait for any conclusions and those will be hazy at best.
Absolutely none at all, would be my guess. Especially as kids will be well aware that there was a reason, and may even know people who have the virus at the moment, or people who are off school because of it.
"Absolutely none"
There you go. My view is that there will be some psychological damage to children to see adults wearing masks when not necessary and yours is that there will be absolutely none. All good as far as it goes.
But let's look at the scenario if we are wrong (perish the thought).
If I am wrong then that is brilliant - no psychological damage. If you are wrong, however, then that is not so good - children do suffer psychological damage from seeing adults wearing masks unnecessarily.
It was common pre-pandemic to see Asian visitors in the UK wearing masks. Did you think children seeing them suffered psychological damage?
Yes. Who are these people who perceive that life requires abnormal and unnecessary levels of protection.
Or... given the NO, particulates and other pollution in our cities, they might be the sensible ones?
I see that Channel 4 are holding a no whites allowed day. A beautiful moment for racial equality and desegregation.
Thank god it's getting sold.
Really? How is that supposed to help anything? I aspire to a colour blind society.
"I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Martin Luther King, Jr.
If you're going to quote Martin Luther King whilst discussing this issue, it might be useful to know that he supported affirmative action.
Yes. He's becoming the new Orwell. Quoted out of context to prove the opposite of what he believed.
Gonna have to stop you there, if that's a coded claim that Orwell genuinely had it in for the right but was only kidding about the left. Wrong.
His great fault was that he was a house-trained nihilist, deep down. Very difficult to pin down what he was in favour of.
No I'm not claiming that. But there is no doubt he was a man of the Left. The far Left in many ways. Although deep down an iconoclast. His great attribute was to apply this equally, without fear or favour. He never spared his own side from criticism to advance a political point. A very rare attribute. He despaired of the moderate timidity of Attlee for example. I seriously doubt he ever considered a Tory vote.
All I can be sure about is that he volunteered to fight "fascism" (I won't get into the debate about whether Franco was fascist). That's a decent enough start, and should be good enough for all most of us.
He also joined the Independent Labour Party in 1938. Which would be a curious move for a non-left person.
I don't think there is a scintilla of doubt that he is of the left or his views and beliefs accord with those of the left. As I am re-reading Road to Wigan Pier this very minute I don't think anyone should be in doubt of this.
But apart from @Ishmael_Z saying it was difficult to pin down what he believes in, which is a fair point to make as there is more description than solution, I don't think anyone has said he or his views are not "of the left".
Road to Wigan Pier is a great book. And rattlingly readable. It was also my paternal grandad's life. I never met him, as he was long dead before I was born. That book succintly explains why that was.
An interesting counterpoint/complement is Terence Davies' shit can't remember which film it was (they are all fucking amazing), but it deals with the Liverpool slum clearances and the regret, longing, and dissolution of communities that it involved.
I see that Channel 4 are holding a no whites allowed day. A beautiful moment for racial equality and desegregation.
Thank god it's getting sold.
Really? How is that supposed to help anything? I aspire to a colour blind society.
"I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Martin Luther King, Jr.
If you're going to quote Martin Luther King whilst discussing this issue, it might be useful to know that he supported affirmative action.
Yes. He's becoming the new Orwell. Quoted out of context to prove the opposite of what he believed.
Gonna have to stop you there, if that's a coded claim that Orwell genuinely had it in for the right but was only kidding about the left. Wrong.
His great fault was that he was a house-trained nihilist, deep down. Very difficult to pin down what he was in favour of.
No I'm not claiming that. But there is no doubt he was a man of the Left. The far Left in many ways. Although deep down an iconoclast. His great attribute was to apply this equally, without fear or favour. He never spared his own side from criticism to advance a political point. A very rare attribute. He despaired of the moderate timidity of Attlee for example. I seriously doubt he ever considered a Tory vote.
All I can be sure about is that he volunteered to fight "fascism" (I won't get into the debate about whether Franco was fascist). That's a decent enough start, and should be good enough for all most of us.
He also joined the Independent Labour Party in 1938. Which would be a curious move for a non-left person.
I don't think there is a scintilla of doubt that he is of the left or his views and beliefs accord with those of the left. As I am re-reading Road to Wigan Pier this very minute I don't think anyone should be in doubt of this.
But apart from @Ishmael_Z saying it was difficult to pin down what he believes in, which is a fair point to make as there is more description than solution, I don't think anyone has said he or his views are not "of the left".
Though rightists, particularly in the US, are desperate to recruit him to their side. I would be genuinely interested in a survey on whether the term Orwellian has been used more by politicians of the right or the left over say the last 10 years.
I see that Channel 4 are holding a no whites allowed day. A beautiful moment for racial equality and desegregation.
Thank god it's getting sold.
Really? How is that supposed to help anything? I aspire to a colour blind society.
"I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Martin Luther King, Jr.
If you're going to quote Martin Luther King whilst discussing this issue, it might be useful to know that he supported affirmative action.
Yes. He's becoming the new Orwell. Quoted out of context to prove the opposite of what he believed.
Gonna have to stop you there, if that's a coded claim that Orwell genuinely had it in for the right but was only kidding about the left. Wrong.
His great fault was that he was a house-trained nihilist, deep down. Very difficult to pin down what he was in favour of.
No I'm not claiming that. But there is no doubt he was a man of the Left. The far Left in many ways. Although deep down an iconoclast. His great attribute was to apply this equally, without fear or favour. He never spared his own side from criticism to advance a political point. A very rare attribute. He despaired of the moderate timidity of Attlee for example. I seriously doubt he ever considered a Tory vote.
All I can be sure about is that he volunteered to fight "fascism" (I won't get into the debate about whether Franco was fascist). That's a decent enough start, and should be good enough for all most of us.
He also joined the Independent Labour Party in 1938. Which would be a curious move for a non-left person.
Agreed absolutely, but his position was: the Left in theory doubleplusgood, Lefties in practice almost always doubleplusungood and complete and utter wankers to boot. Inexplicably, some on the left are made to feel uncomfortable by this.
For those PBers still wetting themselves about the extra £4 a week NI
Daily Mail has a £5 off £25 spend at LIDL
First installment covered
Don't shop at Lidl, don't buy the Mail. Other than that, great plan!
Maybe you should, and just for you its also in the Metro which is free so you get a free £5 rather than a net£4.20 if you buy the Daily Mail.
Please feel free to ignore if you are so wealthy that the NI hit barely touches the sides.
I bought 3 Daily Mails yesterday
You were robbed, the internet says it's 65p. So net £4.35.
That's half of a bottle of Lidl's burgundy, mind. TY for the tip.
What on earth are you doing buying wine at Lidl ffs.
Aldi is where you want to be. Their house champagne is extremely decent (I have a bottle of it on me now as I go to visit the aged aunt). They also have a proper Gevrey Chambertin at twenty-five quid which will drink beautifully in a few years. Plus, whisper it, their £4.50 straight AOC claret is perfectly nice also as an everyday drinker.
That said, always happy to have recommendations from Lidl.
+1 - Aldi's wine selection is decent, their ice wine is something we keep an eye out for its arrival as it usually sells out quickly.
They should also have an interesting sparkling red later this month if Aldi are following last years calendar
Well you learn something everyday. I have never heard of ice wine and had to look it up. It all seems pricy. What ball park price region are we talking about at Aldi and how do I identify it please?
My other joy of going to Aldi is for the laughs going down the centre isle. My favourites so far are:
1) Blocks to stop your caravan rolling away 2) Horse bridle 3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
I mean do they ever sell any of these? Who would go into Aldi on the off chance?
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I absolutely defend your right to choose, but I'd challenge your 'harmless' contention.
Mask wearing is not harmless, it is a trade-off of harm vs spreading the virus.
Humans are not meant to wander around with their faces covered. The face, and seeing each other's expressions, are the fundamental tenets of building trust, both with strangers and acquaintances.
The idea that mask-wearing is a zero-downside practice is deeply wrong, and flies in the face of decades of psychological research that shows that looking people – quite literally – in the mouth is a vital function of all human relationships.
I'll have to remember to 'look you in the mouth' if we ever meet, and give your teeth a good inspection
You should, that's how we communicate.
My youngest daughter is currently undergoing speech therapy because she doesn't enunciate all her sounds properly, and the wearing of masks at school through her reception year when school wasn't locked down etc has really been counterproductive. Her teacher's been cursing it whenever we speak on the subject, quite rightly saying you can't teach phonics properly with a mask on.
I don't really think about how you make certain sounds, you just do, but children learn from looking at your teeth etc while you speak. So we're currently working on the 'f' sound which requires putting your top teeth on your bottom lip "like a bunny" and blowing. Our advice is to try and practice this as much as possible with her, and to make a point of showing the teeth when doing so.
I'm sorry your daughter is going through that. If it helps, I underwent many years of speech therapy, and still do not speak perfectly. In fact, I didn't speak at all until I was five. It's not affected my life much at all (except for the fact I never shut up).
But I fail to see why wearing a mask in a shop would cause any difficulty.
Thank you for your kind remarks.
My reasons for not wearing a mask in a coffee shop.
1: Its pretty hard to drink coffee through a mask. 2: Cloth masks which are all most people are wearing, and disposable cheap clinical masks, not properly worn don't offer that much protection at all compared to getting vaccinated etc 3: If anyone is really bothered about the virus, they should be shielding or wearing a proper clinically safe mask like an FFP3 one which will protect far better than a cloth mask. 4: For anyone else who isn't vaccinated, or is OK with a vaccine breakthrough, better it occurs now over the summer than over the winter. 5: Even at the 'best' of times unless you ban sitting in, most people in a coffee shop would never be wearing a mask anyway. Because . . . see point 1. 6: Masks are stifling, uncomfortable and make communication harder.
I see absolutely no advantage to wearing a mask and only harms.
For those PBers still wetting themselves about the extra £4 a week NI
Daily Mail has a £5 off £25 spend at LIDL
First installment covered
Don't shop at Lidl, don't buy the Mail. Other than that, great plan!
Maybe you should, and just for you its also in the Metro which is free so you get a free £5 rather than a net£4.20 if you buy the Daily Mail.
Please feel free to ignore if you are so wealthy that the NI hit barely touches the sides.
I bought 3 Daily Mails yesterday
You were robbed, the internet says it's 65p. So net £4.35.
That's half of a bottle of Lidl's burgundy, mind. TY for the tip.
What on earth are you doing buying wine at Lidl ffs.
Aldi is where you want to be. Their house champagne is extremely decent (I have a bottle of it on me now as I go to visit the aged aunt). They also have a proper Gevrey Chambertin at twenty-five quid which will drink beautifully in a few years. Plus, whisper it, their £4.50 straight AOC claret is perfectly nice also as an everyday drinker.
That said, always happy to have recommendations from Lidl.
+1 - Aldi's wine selection is decent, their ice wine is something we keep an eye out for its arrival as it usually sells out quickly.
They should also have an interesting sparkling red later this month if Aldi are following last years calendar
Well you learn something everyday. I have never heard of ice wine and had to look it up. It all seems pricy. What ball park price region are we talking about at Aldi and how do I identify it please?
My other joy of going to Aldi is for the laughs going down the centre isle. My favourites so far are:
1) Blocks to stop your caravan rolling away 2) Horse bridle 3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
I mean do they ever sell any of these? Who would go into Aldi on the off chance?
Think it was £8 for a half bottle last time round - not cheap but nowhere near the price elsewhere.
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I wonder what the sight of parents wearing masks for no particular reason does to small children. We will I suppose have to wait for any conclusions and those will be hazy at best.
Absolutely none at all, would be my guess. Especially as kids will be well aware that there was a reason, and may even know people who have the virus at the moment, or people who are off school because of it.
"Absolutely none"
There you go. My view is that there will be some psychological damage to children to see adults wearing masks when not necessary and yours is that there will be absolutely none. All good as far as it goes.
But let's look at the scenario if we are wrong (perish the thought).
If I am wrong then that is brilliant - no psychological damage. If you are wrong, however, then that is not so good - children do suffer psychological damage from seeing adults wearing masks unnecessarily.
It was common pre-pandemic to see Asian visitors in the UK wearing masks. Did you think children seeing them suffered psychological damage?
I see that Channel 4 are holding a no whites allowed day. A beautiful moment for racial equality and desegregation.
Thank god it's getting sold.
Really? How is that supposed to help anything? I aspire to a colour blind society.
"I look to a day when people will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Martin Luther King, Jr.
If you're going to quote Martin Luther King whilst discussing this issue, it might be useful to know that he supported affirmative action.
Yes. He's becoming the new Orwell. Quoted out of context to prove the opposite of what he believed.
Gonna have to stop you there, if that's a coded claim that Orwell genuinely had it in for the right but was only kidding about the left. Wrong.
His great fault was that he was a house-trained nihilist, deep down. Very difficult to pin down what he was in favour of.
No I'm not claiming that. But there is no doubt he was a man of the Left. The far Left in many ways. Although deep down an iconoclast. His great attribute was to apply this equally, without fear or favour. He never spared his own side from criticism to advance a political point. A very rare attribute. He despaired of the moderate timidity of Attlee for example. I seriously doubt he ever considered a Tory vote.
All I can be sure about is that he volunteered to fight "fascism" (I won't get into the debate about whether Franco was fascist). That's a decent enough start, and should be good enough for all most of us.
He also joined the Independent Labour Party in 1938. Which would be a curious move for a non-left person.
Agreed absolutely, but his position was: the Left in theory doubleplusgood, Lefties in practice almost always doubleplusungood and complete and utter wankers to boot. Inexplicably, some on the left are made to feel uncomfortable by this.
I think partially. He had a great deal of admiration and respect for the genuine working class. Who were the bulk of the Left at the time. Not so much for the vast majority of their fellow travellers.
For those PBers still wetting themselves about the extra £4 a week NI
Daily Mail has a £5 off £25 spend at LIDL
First installment covered
Don't shop at Lidl, don't buy the Mail. Other than that, great plan!
Maybe you should, and just for you its also in the Metro which is free so you get a free £5 rather than a net£4.20 if you buy the Daily Mail.
Please feel free to ignore if you are so wealthy that the NI hit barely touches the sides.
I bought 3 Daily Mails yesterday
You were robbed, the internet says it's 65p. So net £4.35.
That's half of a bottle of Lidl's burgundy, mind. TY for the tip.
What on earth are you doing buying wine at Lidl ffs.
Aldi is where you want to be. Their house champagne is extremely decent (I have a bottle of it on me now as I go to visit the aged aunt). They also have a proper Gevrey Chambertin at twenty-five quid which will drink beautifully in a few years. Plus, whisper it, their £4.50 straight AOC claret is perfectly nice also as an everyday drinker.
That said, always happy to have recommendations from Lidl.
+1 - Aldi's wine selection is decent, their ice wine is something we keep an eye out for its arrival as it usually sells out quickly.
They should also have an interesting sparkling red later this month if Aldi are following last years calendar
Well you learn something everyday. I have never heard of ice wine and had to look it up. It all seems pricy. What ball park price region are we talking about at Aldi and how do I identify it please?
My other joy of going to Aldi is for the laughs going down the centre isle. My favourites so far are:
1) Blocks to stop your caravan rolling away 2) Horse bridle 3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
I mean do they ever sell any of these? Who would go into Aldi on the off chance?
Think it was £8 for a half bottle last time round - not cheap but nowhere near the price elsewhere.
Thank you. That is significantly different to what I have just seen on the internet and not bad for a desert wine. I have enjoyed desert wines from Aldi before but only seen them around Xmas.
Attlee was of the traditional Labour left, the idea of forging consensus around policies that were necessary and useful, he would not today be advocating nationalising large swathes of the economy.
He’s closer to Blair than Corbyn, I know that is hard for some to take
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I absolutely defend your right to choose, but I'd challenge your 'harmless' contention.
Mask wearing is not harmless, it is a trade-off of harm vs spreading the virus.
Humans are not meant to wander around with their faces covered. The face, and seeing each other's expressions, are the fundamental tenets of building trust, both with strangers and acquaintances.
The idea that mask-wearing is a zero-downside practice is deeply wrong, and flies in the face of decades of psychological research that shows that looking people – quite literally – in the mouth is a vital function of all human relationships.
I'll have to remember to 'look you in the mouth' if we ever meet, and give your teeth a good inspection
You should, that's how we communicate.
My youngest daughter is currently undergoing speech therapy because she doesn't enunciate all her sounds properly, and the wearing of masks at school through her reception year when school wasn't locked down etc has really been counterproductive. Her teacher's been cursing it whenever we speak on the subject, quite rightly saying you can't teach phonics properly with a mask on.
I don't really think about how you make certain sounds, you just do, but children learn from looking at your teeth etc while you speak. So we're currently working on the 'f' sound which requires putting your top teeth on your bottom lip "like a bunny" and blowing. Our advice is to try and practice this as much as possible with her, and to make a point of showing the teeth when doing so.
I'm sorry your daughter is going through that. If it helps, I underwent many years of speech therapy, and still do not speak perfectly. In fact, I didn't speak at all until I was five. It's not affected my life much at all (except for the fact I never shut up).
But I fail to see why wearing a mask in a shop would cause any difficulty.
Thank you for your kind remarks.
My reasons for not wearing a mask in a coffee shop.
1: Its pretty hard to drink coffee through a mask. 2: Cloth masks which are all most people are wearing, and disposable cheap clinical masks, not properly worn don't offer that much protection at all compared to getting vaccinated etc 3: If anyone is really bothered about the virus, they should be shielding or wearing a proper clinically safe mask like an FFP3 one which will protect far better than a cloth mask. 4: For anyone else who isn't vaccinated, or is OK with a vaccine breakthrough, better it occurs now over the summer than over the winter. 5: Even at the 'best' of times unless you ban sitting in, most people in a coffee shop would never be wearing a mask anyway. Because . . . see point 1. 6: Masks are stifling, uncomfortable and make communication harder.
I see absolutely no advantage to wearing a mask and only harms.
My reasons for wearing a mask: 1. 921 deaths in the last week. 2. 272k people tested positive. 3. 6700 people admitted to hospital. 4. A wife who has had a serious lung condition in the last two years.
I'd love this pandemic to be over. I really would. But it isn't. People who think it is are the 'moronic' ones.
Labour will obviously pleased to see a poll placing it 2% ahead of the Tories - particularly in the context of a 9% Green recorded share which is highly unlikely to be sustained at more than a third of that level in a GE. I also strongly suspect that if GB polls reveal similar findings on a continuing basis that Labour will recover a fair bit of ground in Scotland . Anti-Tory voters there will not wish to 'miss the party' if there is every indication of Labour being the obvious vehicle for ousting them. I have to say though that it has also revived my anger and contempt at Starmer's decision to hold the Hartlepool and Batley& Spen by elections last Spring and early Summer.The Hartlepool MP - deprived of the Labour Whip - could still be sitting as an Independent on the same basis that the Delyn MP is there.At the very earliest, however, no by election writ should have been issued until this week with a view to polling in October. It remains a very serious - and to me- unforgiveable self inflicted wound and failure of political leadership.
For those PBers still wetting themselves about the extra £4 a week NI
Daily Mail has a £5 off £25 spend at LIDL
First installment covered
Don't shop at Lidl, don't buy the Mail. Other than that, great plan!
Maybe you should, and just for you its also in the Metro which is free so you get a free £5 rather than a net£4.20 if you buy the Daily Mail.
Please feel free to ignore if you are so wealthy that the NI hit barely touches the sides.
I bought 3 Daily Mails yesterday
You were robbed, the internet says it's 65p. So net £4.35.
That's half of a bottle of Lidl's burgundy, mind. TY for the tip.
What on earth are you doing buying wine at Lidl ffs.
Aldi is where you want to be. Their house champagne is extremely decent (I have a bottle of it on me now as I go to visit the aged aunt). They also have a proper Gevrey Chambertin at twenty-five quid which will drink beautifully in a few years. Plus, whisper it, their £4.50 straight AOC claret is perfectly nice also as an everyday drinker.
That said, always happy to have recommendations from Lidl.
+1 - Aldi's wine selection is decent, their ice wine is something we keep an eye out for its arrival as it usually sells out quickly.
They should also have an interesting sparkling red later this month if Aldi are following last years calendar
Well you learn something everyday. I have never heard of ice wine and had to look it up. It all seems pricy. What ball park price region are we talking about at Aldi and how do I identify it please?
My other joy of going to Aldi is for the laughs going down the centre isle. My favourites so far are:
1) Blocks to stop your caravan rolling away 2) Horse bridle 3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
I mean do they ever sell any of these? Who would go into Aldi on the off chance?
Think it was £8 for a half bottle last time round - not cheap but nowhere near the price elsewhere.
Thank you. That is significantly different to what I have just seen on the internet and not bad for a desert wine. I have enjoyed desert wines from Aldi before but only seen them around Xmas.
Ice wine is expensive cos the grapes have to be frozen when picked, often done during the night, and usually picked individually rather than in bunches. A treat for Xmas day puddings and suchlike
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I absolutely defend your right to choose, but I'd challenge your 'harmless' contention.
Mask wearing is not harmless, it is a trade-off of harm vs spreading the virus.
Humans are not meant to wander around with their faces covered. The face, and seeing each other's expressions, are the fundamental tenets of building trust, both with strangers and acquaintances.
The idea that mask-wearing is a zero-downside practice is deeply wrong, and flies in the face of decades of psychological research that shows that looking people – quite literally – in the mouth is a vital function of all human relationships.
I'll have to remember to 'look you in the mouth' if we ever meet, and give your teeth a good inspection
You should, that's how we communicate.
My youngest daughter is currently undergoing speech therapy because she doesn't enunciate all her sounds properly, and the wearing of masks at school through her reception year when school wasn't locked down etc has really been counterproductive. Her teacher's been cursing it whenever we speak on the subject, quite rightly saying you can't teach phonics properly with a mask on.
I don't really think about how you make certain sounds, you just do, but children learn from looking at your teeth etc while you speak. So we're currently working on the 'f' sound which requires putting your top teeth on your bottom lip "like a bunny" and blowing. Our advice is to try and practice this as much as possible with her, and to make a point of showing the teeth when doing so.
I'm sorry your daughter is going through that. If it helps, I underwent many years of speech therapy, and still do not speak perfectly. In fact, I didn't speak at all until I was five. It's not affected my life much at all (except for the fact I never shut up).
But I fail to see why wearing a mask in a shop would cause any difficulty.
Thank you for your kind remarks.
My reasons for not wearing a mask in a coffee shop.
1: Its pretty hard to drink coffee through a mask. 2: Cloth masks which are all most people are wearing, and disposable cheap clinical masks, not properly worn don't offer that much protection at all compared to getting vaccinated etc 3: If anyone is really bothered about the virus, they should be shielding or wearing a proper clinically safe mask like an FFP3 one which will protect far better than a cloth mask. 4: For anyone else who isn't vaccinated, or is OK with a vaccine breakthrough, better it occurs now over the summer than over the winter. 5: Even at the 'best' of times unless you ban sitting in, most people in a coffee shop would never be wearing a mask anyway. Because . . . see point 1. 6: Masks are stifling, uncomfortable and make communication harder.
I see absolutely no advantage to wearing a mask and only harms.
My reasons for wearing a mask: 1. 921 deaths in the last week. 2. 272k people tested positive. 3. 6700 people admitted to hospital. 4. A wife who has had a serious lung condition in the last two years.
I'd love this pandemic to be over. I really would. But it isn't. People who think it is are the 'moronic' ones.
If you have a reason that you are especially worried, like a wife with a condition, then it makes sense for you to go out wearing a genuine FFP3 mask that actually works.
Not a piece of rubbish cloth mask that is a bad joke, compared to vaccines or FFP3 masks.
Let alone relying upon strangers to wear a cloth mask, in a location they're sat down to drink coffee, which is an even worse joke.
For those PBers still wetting themselves about the extra £4 a week NI
Daily Mail has a £5 off £25 spend at LIDL
First installment covered
Don't shop at Lidl, don't buy the Mail. Other than that, great plan!
Maybe you should, and just for you its also in the Metro which is free so you get a free £5 rather than a net£4.20 if you buy the Daily Mail.
Please feel free to ignore if you are so wealthy that the NI hit barely touches the sides.
I bought 3 Daily Mails yesterday
You were robbed, the internet says it's 65p. So net £4.35.
That's half of a bottle of Lidl's burgundy, mind. TY for the tip.
What on earth are you doing buying wine at Lidl ffs.
Aldi is where you want to be. Their house champagne is extremely decent (I have a bottle of it on me now as I go to visit the aged aunt). They also have a proper Gevrey Chambertin at twenty-five quid which will drink beautifully in a few years. Plus, whisper it, their £4.50 straight AOC claret is perfectly nice also as an everyday drinker.
That said, always happy to have recommendations from Lidl.
+1 - Aldi's wine selection is decent, their ice wine is something we keep an eye out for its arrival as it usually sells out quickly.
They should also have an interesting sparkling red later this month if Aldi are following last years calendar
Well you learn something everyday. I have never heard of ice wine and had to look it up. It all seems pricy. What ball park price region are we talking about at Aldi and how do I identify it please?
My other joy of going to Aldi is for the laughs going down the centre isle. My favourites so far are:
1) Blocks to stop your caravan rolling away 2) Horse bridle 3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
I mean do they ever sell any of these? Who would go into Aldi on the off chance?
2) Horse bridle 3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
Those are both useful items. I do actually need to get a barrow wheel. Which ALDI was this ?
Which proves there is a whole heap of opportunity around the social care tax - I suspect it will be a continual issue that slowly chips away at Tory support within the working class.
Separately the administrators of Cleveland Bridge have discovered that there isn't a viable takeover offer. So that is another historic engineering firm gone in a Red Wall seat...
Graduates earning over £27,000 a year are not working class, they are middle class, mainly living in London and other big cities
But they can’t afford to buy a house, which is the root of the problem.
Thatcher knew that people who own houses vote Conservative. If large number of the middle classes can’t afford to buy property, then Conservatives lose elections.
If you cannot afford to buy the average house where you live then you are not middle class.
According to this, most people in London and the south-east are not middle-class.
"Gerard Baker Awful truth about 9/11: the terrorists won The war on terror weakened America and cost far more in money, lives and foreign policy distractions than it gained" (£)
They got him via an ISI walk in to the US embassy in islamabad who wanted the $25m reward. It didn't require a $2 trillion 20 year occupation of a completely different country.
Yeah but if they didn't invade Afghanistan, he'd still be living in his luxury mountain fortress...
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I wonder what the sight of parents wearing masks for no particular reason does to small children. We will I suppose have to wait for any conclusions and those will be hazy at best.
Absolutely none at all, would be my guess. Especially as kids will be well aware that there was a reason, and may even know people who have the virus at the moment, or people who are off school because of it.
"Absolutely none"
There you go. My view is that there will be some psychological damage to children to see adults wearing masks when not necessary and yours is that there will be absolutely none. All good as far as it goes.
But let's look at the scenario if we are wrong (perish the thought).
If I am wrong then that is brilliant - no psychological damage. If you are wrong, however, then that is not so good - children do suffer psychological damage from seeing adults wearing masks unnecessarily.
It was common pre-pandemic to see Asian visitors in the UK wearing masks. Did you think children seeing them suffered psychological damage?
Probably yes.
I think children are a heck of a lot more psychologically robust than that.
There's a real danger that your argument can be used for anything 'different': would a child seeing a man with one leg be psychologically damaged by the sight, or realise that people are different, for whatever reason?
Errrhhh that isn't very impartial and is misleading from the BBC bod....it was far from just the Daily Mail campaigning for her to go. Tory MPs called for it, Baroness Lawrence and Ed Davey also called for it,....so individuals from across the political spectrum.
Attlee was of the traditional Labour left, the idea of forging consensus around policies that were necessary and useful, he would not today be advocating nationalising large swathes of the economy.
He’s closer to Blair than Corbyn, I know that is hard for some to take
I strongly disagree. Blair was closer to Thatcher than to Attlee - and well to the right of Tory figures such as Macmillan, Heath, Macleod, Butler , Maudling - indeed even Baldwin.
For those PBers still wetting themselves about the extra £4 a week NI
Daily Mail has a £5 off £25 spend at LIDL
First installment covered
Don't shop at Lidl, don't buy the Mail. Other than that, great plan!
Maybe you should, and just for you its also in the Metro which is free so you get a free £5 rather than a net£4.20 if you buy the Daily Mail.
Please feel free to ignore if you are so wealthy that the NI hit barely touches the sides.
I bought 3 Daily Mails yesterday
You were robbed, the internet says it's 65p. So net £4.35.
That's half of a bottle of Lidl's burgundy, mind. TY for the tip.
What on earth are you doing buying wine at Lidl ffs.
Aldi is where you want to be. Their house champagne is extremely decent (I have a bottle of it on me now as I go to visit the aged aunt). They also have a proper Gevrey Chambertin at twenty-five quid which will drink beautifully in a few years. Plus, whisper it, their £4.50 straight AOC claret is perfectly nice also as an everyday drinker.
That said, always happy to have recommendations from Lidl.
+1 - Aldi's wine selection is decent, their ice wine is something we keep an eye out for its arrival as it usually sells out quickly.
They should also have an interesting sparkling red later this month if Aldi are following last years calendar
Well you learn something everyday. I have never heard of ice wine and had to look it up. It all seems pricy. What ball park price region are we talking about at Aldi and how do I identify it please?
My other joy of going to Aldi is for the laughs going down the centre isle. My favourites so far are:
1) Blocks to stop your caravan rolling away 2) Horse bridle 3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
I mean do they ever sell any of these? Who would go into Aldi on the off chance?
2) Horse bridle 3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
Those are both useful items. I do actually need to get one a barrow wheel. Which ALDI was this ?
Spare wheelbarrow wheels are a thing - just google. I've just been buying spare parts for my inherited Workmate from Tools and Parts Direct so if you have the model number shove it into their website and see if it comes up. But DIY and builders' merchants stock them anyway. No need to bother with Aldi?
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I absolutely defend your right to choose, but I'd challenge your 'harmless' contention.
Mask wearing is not harmless, it is a trade-off of harm vs spreading the virus.
Humans are not meant to wander around with their faces covered. The face, and seeing each other's expressions, are the fundamental tenets of building trust, both with strangers and acquaintances.
The idea that mask-wearing is a zero-downside practice is deeply wrong, and flies in the face of decades of psychological research that shows that looking people – quite literally – in the mouth is a vital function of all human relationships.
I'll have to remember to 'look you in the mouth' if we ever meet, and give your teeth a good inspection
You should, that's how we communicate.
My youngest daughter is currently undergoing speech therapy because she doesn't enunciate all her sounds properly, and the wearing of masks at school through her reception year when school wasn't locked down etc has really been counterproductive. Her teacher's been cursing it whenever we speak on the subject, quite rightly saying you can't teach phonics properly with a mask on.
I don't really think about how you make certain sounds, you just do, but children learn from looking at your teeth etc while you speak. So we're currently working on the 'f' sound which requires putting your top teeth on your bottom lip "like a bunny" and blowing. Our advice is to try and practice this as much as possible with her, and to make a point of showing the teeth when doing so.
I'm sorry your daughter is going through that. If it helps, I underwent many years of speech therapy, and still do not speak perfectly. In fact, I didn't speak at all until I was five. It's not affected my life much at all (except for the fact I never shut up).
But I fail to see why wearing a mask in a shop would cause any difficulty.
Thank you for your kind remarks.
My reasons for not wearing a mask in a coffee shop.
1: Its pretty hard to drink coffee through a mask. 2: Cloth masks which are all most people are wearing, and disposable cheap clinical masks, not properly worn don't offer that much protection at all compared to getting vaccinated etc 3: If anyone is really bothered about the virus, they should be shielding or wearing a proper clinically safe mask like an FFP3 one which will protect far better than a cloth mask. 4: For anyone else who isn't vaccinated, or is OK with a vaccine breakthrough, better it occurs now over the summer than over the winter. 5: Even at the 'best' of times unless you ban sitting in, most people in a coffee shop would never be wearing a mask anyway. Because . . . see point 1. 6: Masks are stifling, uncomfortable and make communication harder.
I see absolutely no advantage to wearing a mask and only harms.
My reasons for wearing a mask: 1. 921 deaths in the last week. 2. 272k people tested positive. 3. 6700 people admitted to hospital. 4. A wife who has had a serious lung condition in the last two years.
I'd love this pandemic to be over. I really would. But it isn't. People who think it is are the 'moronic' ones.
If you have a reason that you are especially worried, like a wife with a condition, then it makes sense for you to go out wearing a genuine FFP3 mask that actually works.
Not a piece of rubbish cloth mask that is a bad joke, compared to vaccines or FFP3 masks.
Let alone relying upon strangers to wear a cloth mask, in a location they're sat down to drink coffee, which is an even worse joke.
Who says I don't wear one of those masks?
But I see you ignore the main thrust of my point: the pandemic is not over. Yes, lots of us are vaxxed but we've still got (I think) much higher figures than this time last year.
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I absolutely defend your right to choose, but I'd challenge your 'harmless' contention.
Mask wearing is not harmless, it is a trade-off of harm vs spreading the virus.
Humans are not meant to wander around with their faces covered. The face, and seeing each other's expressions, are the fundamental tenets of building trust, both with strangers and acquaintances.
The idea that mask-wearing is a zero-downside practice is deeply wrong, and flies in the face of decades of psychological research that shows that looking people – quite literally – in the mouth is a vital function of all human relationships.
I'll have to remember to 'look you in the mouth' if we ever meet, and give your teeth a good inspection
You should, that's how we communicate.
My youngest daughter is currently undergoing speech therapy because she doesn't enunciate all her sounds properly, and the wearing of masks at school through her reception year when school wasn't locked down etc has really been counterproductive. Her teacher's been cursing it whenever we speak on the subject, quite rightly saying you can't teach phonics properly with a mask on.
I don't really think about how you make certain sounds, you just do, but children learn from looking at your teeth etc while you speak. So we're currently working on the 'f' sound which requires putting your top teeth on your bottom lip "like a bunny" and blowing. Our advice is to try and practice this as much as possible with her, and to make a point of showing the teeth when doing so.
I'm sorry your daughter is going through that. If it helps, I underwent many years of speech therapy, and still do not speak perfectly. In fact, I didn't speak at all until I was five. It's not affected my life much at all (except for the fact I never shut up).
But I fail to see why wearing a mask in a shop would cause any difficulty.
Thank you for your kind remarks.
My reasons for not wearing a mask in a coffee shop.
1: Its pretty hard to drink coffee through a mask. 2: Cloth masks which are all most people are wearing, and disposable cheap clinical masks, not properly worn don't offer that much protection at all compared to getting vaccinated etc 3: If anyone is really bothered about the virus, they should be shielding or wearing a proper clinically safe mask like an FFP3 one which will protect far better than a cloth mask. 4: For anyone else who isn't vaccinated, or is OK with a vaccine breakthrough, better it occurs now over the summer than over the winter. 5: Even at the 'best' of times unless you ban sitting in, most people in a coffee shop would never be wearing a mask anyway. Because . . . see point 1. 6: Masks are stifling, uncomfortable and make communication harder.
I see absolutely no advantage to wearing a mask and only harms.
My reasons for wearing a mask: 1. 921 deaths in the last week. 2. 272k people tested positive. 3. 6700 people admitted to hospital. 4. A wife who has had a serious lung condition in the last two years.
I'd love this pandemic to be over. I really would. But it isn't. People who think it is are the 'moronic' ones.
If it turned out that masks only have say a 1% impact in terms of reducing the ability for me to transmit this virus then I think it's still worth doing it. I believe it's actually higher than that, and combined with distancing and vaccination it is still worth doing.
I still wear my mask, pretty much the only person on my bus that does each morning now but I will continue to do so for some time to come if needed.
Timidity of Attlee you say? But the Corbynites insisted that Attlee was actually a far left revolutionary, did they lie again?
Have you spent all your winnings on LIDL Champagne and consumed the lot before posting
No? Please show your workings re Atlee and the lie
Attlee was in favour of a nuclear deterrent.
Attlee was in favour of wars abroad.
Attlee served in a Government with Tories.
Attlee would be called right wing by the Labour of today
So who is claiming he is far left revolutionary? Given he stood for Parliament revolutionary is unlikely
Did the current LOTO lie to become leader? I will unite our Party
Would the current LOTO have brought about the NHS?
Corbynites claim Corbyn is modern day Attlee. And since his last electoral offering was revolutionary left wingism, I conclude that is what they must think Attlee was. For me to think a left wing Labour programme is too left wing but show you something
The current LOTO probably would, to be honest even the Tories would have introduced something akin to the NHS, the work of which was in place under Churchill.
I’d argue Labour is more united now than it has been in years, it’s just the nutters have left and gone back to the SWP where they belong.
Which proves there is a whole heap of opportunity around the social care tax - I suspect it will be a continual issue that slowly chips away at Tory support within the working class.
Separately the administrators of Cleveland Bridge have discovered that there isn't a viable takeover offer. So that is another historic engineering firm gone in a Red Wall seat...
Graduates earning over £27,000 a year are not working class, they are middle class, mainly living in London and other big cities
But they can’t afford to buy a house, which is the root of the problem.
Thatcher knew that people who own houses vote Conservative. If large number of the middle classes can’t afford to buy property, then Conservatives lose elections.
If you cannot afford to buy the average house where you live then you are not middle class.
According to this, most people in London and the south-east are not middle-class.
It needs to be corrected therefore to 'If you cannot afford to buy the average house where you live or will not receive a large enough inheritance or gift from your parents to get a deposit to buy the average house where you live then you are not middle class.'
A week late but finally my "at least 1-in-50" prediction has borne fruit.
Can you predict something a bit more optimistic.
In November I'm spending 8/9 days in Glasgow/Edinburgh seeing Blondie (with Garbage as the warm up) and a week later The Offspring and I'm starting to get worried both will be cancelled.
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I absolutely defend your right to choose, but I'd challenge your 'harmless' contention.
Mask wearing is not harmless, it is a trade-off of harm vs spreading the virus.
Humans are not meant to wander around with their faces covered. The face, and seeing each other's expressions, are the fundamental tenets of building trust, both with strangers and acquaintances.
The idea that mask-wearing is a zero-downside practice is deeply wrong, and flies in the face of decades of psychological research that shows that looking people – quite literally – in the mouth is a vital function of all human relationships.
I'll have to remember to 'look you in the mouth' if we ever meet, and give your teeth a good inspection
You should, that's how we communicate.
My youngest daughter is currently undergoing speech therapy because she doesn't enunciate all her sounds properly, and the wearing of masks at school through her reception year when school wasn't locked down etc has really been counterproductive. Her teacher's been cursing it whenever we speak on the subject, quite rightly saying you can't teach phonics properly with a mask on.
I don't really think about how you make certain sounds, you just do, but children learn from looking at your teeth etc while you speak. So we're currently working on the 'f' sound which requires putting your top teeth on your bottom lip "like a bunny" and blowing. Our advice is to try and practice this as much as possible with her, and to make a point of showing the teeth when doing so.
I'm sorry your daughter is going through that. If it helps, I underwent many years of speech therapy, and still do not speak perfectly. In fact, I didn't speak at all until I was five. It's not affected my life much at all (except for the fact I never shut up).
But I fail to see why wearing a mask in a shop would cause any difficulty.
Thank you for your kind remarks.
My reasons for not wearing a mask in a coffee shop.
1: Its pretty hard to drink coffee through a mask. 2: Cloth masks which are all most people are wearing, and disposable cheap clinical masks, not properly worn don't offer that much protection at all compared to getting vaccinated etc 3: If anyone is really bothered about the virus, they should be shielding or wearing a proper clinically safe mask like an FFP3 one which will protect far better than a cloth mask. 4: For anyone else who isn't vaccinated, or is OK with a vaccine breakthrough, better it occurs now over the summer than over the winter. 5: Even at the 'best' of times unless you ban sitting in, most people in a coffee shop would never be wearing a mask anyway. Because . . . see point 1. 6: Masks are stifling, uncomfortable and make communication harder.
I see absolutely no advantage to wearing a mask and only harms.
My reasons for wearing a mask: 1. 921 deaths in the last week. 2. 272k people tested positive. 3. 6700 people admitted to hospital. 4. A wife who has had a serious lung condition in the last two years.
I'd love this pandemic to be over. I really would. But it isn't. People who think it is are the 'moronic' ones.
If you have a reason that you are especially worried, like a wife with a condition, then it makes sense for you to go out wearing a genuine FFP3 mask that actually works.
Not a piece of rubbish cloth mask that is a bad joke, compared to vaccines or FFP3 masks.
Let alone relying upon strangers to wear a cloth mask, in a location they're sat down to drink coffee, which is an even worse joke.
Who says I don't wear one of those masks?
But I see you ignore the main thrust of my point: the pandemic is not over. Yes, lots of us are vaxxed but we've still got (I think) much higher figures than this time last year.
The pandemic's not over, but the time for wearing cloth masks is.
There are better, good quality masks that actually work if you're concerned - but almost nobody wears them.
And for everyone else, getting back to normal is how we end the pandemic. If there's going to be a vaccine breakthrough, or an unvaccinated person is going to be infected, then its better it happens now than in winter.
Postponing infections until winter can only be harmful not helpful.
I wore a mask into another office building today when I had to pick something up. Just considered it basic politeness tbh. OTOH I didn't bother in the shop last evening. It's not moronic to wear one, rather a personal choice.
Timidity of Attlee you say? But the Corbynites insisted that Attlee was actually a far left revolutionary, did they lie again?
Have you spent all your winnings on LIDL Champagne and consumed the lot before posting
No? Please show your workings re Atlee and the lie
Attlee was in favour of a nuclear deterrent.
Attlee was in favour of wars abroad.
Attlee served in a Government with Tories.
Attlee would be called right wing by the Labour of today
So who is claiming he is far left revolutionary? Given he stood for Parliament revolutionary is unlikely
Did the current LOTO lie to become leader? I will unite our Party
Would the current LOTO have brought about the NHS?
Corbynites claim Corbyn is modern day Attlee. And since his last electoral offering was revolutionary left wingism, I conclude that is what they must think Attlee was. For me to think a left wing Labour programme is too left wing but show you something
The current LOTO probably would, to be honest even the Tories would have introduced something akin to the NHS, the work of which was in place under Churchill.
I’d argue Labour is more united now than it has been in years, it’s just the nutters have left and gone back to the SWP where they belong.
For me as a Tory Attlee was actually a better PM than Wilson and Callaghan and Brown, he was certainly a better Labour leader than Corbyn was, as is Starmer. For me only Blair of postwar Labour PMs was better than Attlee.
I would not vote for Starmer but could live with him as PM, I could not have lived with Corbyn as PM
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I absolutely defend your right to choose, but I'd challenge your 'harmless' contention.
Mask wearing is not harmless, it is a trade-off of harm vs spreading the virus.
Humans are not meant to wander around with their faces covered. The face, and seeing each other's expressions, are the fundamental tenets of building trust, both with strangers and acquaintances.
The idea that mask-wearing is a zero-downside practice is deeply wrong, and flies in the face of decades of psychological research that shows that looking people – quite literally – in the mouth is a vital function of all human relationships.
I'll have to remember to 'look you in the mouth' if we ever meet, and give your teeth a good inspection
A flippant response to a fair argument from me.
What do you think of my point?
I am not wearing a mask 99% of the time. I choose to wear a mask for very small periods. I fail to see how the people I meet should be horrified because I'm wearing a mask. Particularly when a pandemic is still raging.
I understand your view, but - sadly - these are still not 'ordinary' times.
And BTW, when the pandemic's over, if I get a cough or cold I'll probably start wearing a mask again if I'm out and about amongst people. I daresay Philip would call that 'moronic' ...
If you know you have a cold, no I wouldn't. Similarly if you knew you had Covid I wouldn't say it.
If you start wearing it every day, even when you don't have a cold, then yes I would call it that.
In the middle of a pandemic, with over 100 people dying a day from the lurgy, I'd say your view is utterly wrong.
Not the fact you don't wear a mask: the fact that you feel people who choose to as being moronic.
I think the problem is if your only joy in life is judging other people for no good reason, then wearing a mask makes it harder to look down your nose at them
Working from home Not shaking hands Face coverings
I prefer "change". WFH clearly suits many. Childcare, the disabled, those with hours of commuting. Those who don't like their boss and colleagues. Shaking hands? Who cares? Plenty of modern societies in Asia, cope perfectly well. Why not introduce kissing on the cheek if touch is so important? Face coverings. I don't mind. If it helps it helps. Others do care deeply.
Whether these will damage will only be seen over time. Much of it depending on one's starting point. Whether society was working in your favour before.
Attlee was of the traditional Labour left, the idea of forging consensus around policies that were necessary and useful, he would not today be advocating nationalising large swathes of the economy.
He’s closer to Blair than Corbyn, I know that is hard for some to take
I don't think it at all likely Attlee would have agreed to invade Iraq.
Attlee was of the traditional Labour left, the idea of forging consensus around policies that were necessary and useful, he would not today be advocating nationalising large swathes of the economy.
He’s closer to Blair than Corbyn, I know that is hard for some to take
I don't think it at all likely Attlee would have agreed to invade Iraq.
Attlee agreed to invade Iran to secure Iran's oil.
I'm loving the anti-maskers on here today. It's hilarious. Calling people who judge their own risks and choose to wear masks at certain times things like 'moronic' et al.
I am still wearing a mask at certain times. I judge when and where I will wear my mask; it is not always, but whenever I go into a shop, or pick or drop off the little 'un from school. To be frank, it's not much - perhaps twenty or thirty minutes a day, tops. I have judged the risks - as I see them - and made a choice.
It also does f'all harm. to myself or anyone around me - and may even help.
That's not moronic. It's personal choice in a civilised society.
I wonder what the sight of parents wearing masks for no particular reason does to small children. We will I suppose have to wait for any conclusions and those will be hazy at best.
Do you have the same worries about parents wearing scarves or sunglasses? What about a very bushy moustache?
Sozza only looking for non-twattish answers to this.
Why would putting on a mask to go round a supermarket damage children, but wearing sunglasses not? You seem like one of those people who just enjoys judging others, and you get angry if someone asks if you are being entirely consistent.
Attlee was of the traditional Labour left, the idea of forging consensus around policies that were necessary and useful, he would not today be advocating nationalising large swathes of the economy.
He’s closer to Blair than Corbyn, I know that is hard for some to take
I don't think it at all likely Attlee would have agreed to invade Iraq.
I think it's very possible, indeed Labour's adventures in the Middle East post WW2 were similar to Iraq in some ways (poor planning)
Attlee was of the traditional Labour left, the idea of forging consensus around policies that were necessary and useful, he would not today be advocating nationalising large swathes of the economy.
He’s closer to Blair than Corbyn, I know that is hard for some to take
I don't think it at all likely Attlee would have agreed to invade Iraq.
Attlee agreed to invade Iran to secure Iran's oil.
Arguably Labour has a lot of blood on its hands as well for the current Israel-Palestine crisis
I would highly recommend "Ernest Bevin: Labour's Churchill", whilst not the best written book (I find the way it flips around time quite frustrating), I do think it dispels certain myths about that Labour Government
Attlee was of the traditional Labour left, the idea of forging consensus around policies that were necessary and useful, he would not today be advocating nationalising large swathes of the economy.
He’s closer to Blair than Corbyn, I know that is hard for some to take
I don't think it at all likely Attlee would have agreed to invade Iraq.
Attlee agreed to invade Iran to secure Iran's oil.
Arguably Labour has a lot of blood on its hands as well for the current Israel-Palestine crisis
Also has a lot of blood on his and their hands due to disastrous partition of India.
More people died during partition that died during Iraq II.
Attlee was of the traditional Labour left, the idea of forging consensus around policies that were necessary and useful, he would not today be advocating nationalising large swathes of the economy.
He’s closer to Blair than Corbyn, I know that is hard for some to take
I don't think it at all likely Attlee would have agreed to invade Iraq.
I bet people were calling him a war criminal for years!
Attlee was of the traditional Labour left, the idea of forging consensus around policies that were necessary and useful, he would not today be advocating nationalising large swathes of the economy.
He’s closer to Blair than Corbyn, I know that is hard for some to take
I strongly disagree. Blair was closer to Thatcher than to Attlee - and well to the right of Tory figures such as Macmillan, Heath, Macleod, Butler , Maudling - indeed even Baldwin.
Attlee closer to Blair than Corbyn. Blair closer to Thatcher than Attlee. These can BOTH be true.
For those PBers still wetting themselves about the extra £4 a week NI
Daily Mail has a £5 off £25 spend at LIDL
First installment covered
Don't shop at Lidl, don't buy the Mail. Other than that, great plan!
Maybe you should, and just for you its also in the Metro which is free so you get a free £5 rather than a net£4.20 if you buy the Daily Mail.
Please feel free to ignore if you are so wealthy that the NI hit barely touches the sides.
I bought 3 Daily Mails yesterday
You were robbed, the internet says it's 65p. So net £4.35.
That's half of a bottle of Lidl's burgundy, mind. TY for the tip.
What on earth are you doing buying wine at Lidl ffs.
Aldi is where you want to be. Their house champagne is extremely decent (I have a bottle of it on me now as I go to visit the aged aunt). They also have a proper Gevrey Chambertin at twenty-five quid which will drink beautifully in a few years. Plus, whisper it, their £4.50 straight AOC claret is perfectly nice also as an everyday drinker.
That said, always happy to have recommendations from Lidl.
+1 - Aldi's wine selection is decent, their ice wine is something we keep an eye out for its arrival as it usually sells out quickly.
They should also have an interesting sparkling red later this month if Aldi are following last years calendar
Well you learn something everyday. I have never heard of ice wine and had to look it up. It all seems pricy. What ball park price region are we talking about at Aldi and how do I identify it please?
My other joy of going to Aldi is for the laughs going down the centre isle. My favourites so far are:
1) Blocks to stop your caravan rolling away 2) Horse bridle 3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
I mean do they ever sell any of these? Who would go into Aldi on the off chance?
2) Horse bridle 3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
Those are both useful items. I do actually need to get a barrow wheel. Which ALDI was this ?
Guildford 2 or 3 years ago. They are only on sale for a couple of weeks. I mean really?
I wore a mask into another office building today when I had to pick something up. Just considered it basic politeness tbh. OTOH I didn't bother in the shop last evening. It's not moronic to wear one, rather a personal choice.
Yeah there's a sensible middle ground.
Generally if (a) I'm not consuming food or drink, (b) I'll be there for more than 5 minutes, and (c) it's unventilated and inside I'll wear one.
Attlee was of the traditional Labour left, the idea of forging consensus around policies that were necessary and useful, he would not today be advocating nationalising large swathes of the economy.
He’s closer to Blair than Corbyn, I know that is hard for some to take
He was seen as on the centre-right of the party even at the time, hence his clashes with the party Chair, Harold Laski ("A period of silence on your part would now be welcome"), and many others. Like Tony Blair, he nonetheless had broad support because it was recognised even by the most left-wing members that he was introducing reforms that would make a lasting difference (notably the NHS, of course).
Idle anecdotery department - my very apolitical Russian-born mother met both the Webbs and Harold Laski socially after she settled in Britain in the late 30s. She thought the Webbs very boring but was charmed by Laski's manners - largely forgotten now, he seems to have been a sort of Tony Benn figure, very left-wing but courteous with it. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Laski)
For those PBers still wetting themselves about the extra £4 a week NI
Daily Mail has a £5 off £25 spend at LIDL
First installment covered
Don't shop at Lidl, don't buy the Mail. Other than that, great plan!
Maybe you should, and just for you its also in the Metro which is free so you get a free £5 rather than a net£4.20 if you buy the Daily Mail.
Please feel free to ignore if you are so wealthy that the NI hit barely touches the sides.
I bought 3 Daily Mails yesterday
You were robbed, the internet says it's 65p. So net £4.35.
That's half of a bottle of Lidl's burgundy, mind. TY for the tip.
What on earth are you doing buying wine at Lidl ffs.
Aldi is where you want to be. Their house champagne is extremely decent (I have a bottle of it on me now as I go to visit the aged aunt). They also have a proper Gevrey Chambertin at twenty-five quid which will drink beautifully in a few years. Plus, whisper it, their £4.50 straight AOC claret is perfectly nice also as an everyday drinker.
That said, always happy to have recommendations from Lidl.
+1 - Aldi's wine selection is decent, their ice wine is something we keep an eye out for its arrival as it usually sells out quickly.
They should also have an interesting sparkling red later this month if Aldi are following last years calendar
Well you learn something everyday. I have never heard of ice wine and had to look it up. It all seems pricy. What ball park price region are we talking about at Aldi and how do I identify it please?
My other joy of going to Aldi is for the laughs going down the centre isle. My favourites so far are:
1) Blocks to stop your caravan rolling away 2) Horse bridle 3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
I mean do they ever sell any of these? Who would go into Aldi on the off chance?
2) Horse bridle 3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
Those are both useful items. I do actually need to get one a barrow wheel. Which ALDI was this ?
Spare wheelbarrow wheels are a thing - just google. I've just been buying spare parts for my inherited Workmate from Tools and Parts Direct so if you have the model number shove it into their website and see if it comes up. But DIY and builders' merchants stock them anyway. No need to bother with Aldi?
Were you able to put down a deposit on a house with your inherited Workmate?
On topic, unless Sadiq Khan wants to go back to Westminster (as part of a winning Labour Party presumably) he may as well stay Mayor until 2028 then find a Westminster seat in London (East Ham?) and then be part of the winning Labour Party.
Will he win in 2024?
Bailey did much better than many expected or anticipated including me. He won a Ward in Newham (Custom House) by 789 to 742 and the Conservative candidate in the East Ham Central by election polled a respectable 30%.
The question then becomes - who is the Conservative candidate that can reach the parts even Shaun Bailey couldn't reach? Unless Bailey finds a safe Westminster seat, I'm sure he'll be in the running for another go and there's the thing - he can either have the relatively certainty and obscurity of being a backbench MP or the uncertainty and profile of being London Mayor.
@TSE seems certain he knows the outcome of the next GE - as Richard Hoiles once said of Frankie Dettori after the Nunthorpe "he's sure I'm not".
For those PBers still wetting themselves about the extra £4 a week NI
Daily Mail has a £5 off £25 spend at LIDL
First installment covered
Don't shop at Lidl, don't buy the Mail. Other than that, great plan!
Maybe you should, and just for you its also in the Metro which is free so you get a free £5 rather than a net£4.20 if you buy the Daily Mail.
Please feel free to ignore if you are so wealthy that the NI hit barely touches the sides.
I bought 3 Daily Mails yesterday
You were robbed, the internet says it's 65p. So net £4.35.
That's half of a bottle of Lidl's burgundy, mind. TY for the tip.
What on earth are you doing buying wine at Lidl ffs.
Aldi is where you want to be. Their house champagne is extremely decent (I have a bottle of it on me now as I go to visit the aged aunt). They also have a proper Gevrey Chambertin at twenty-five quid which will drink beautifully in a few years. Plus, whisper it, their £4.50 straight AOC claret is perfectly nice also as an everyday drinker.
That said, always happy to have recommendations from Lidl.
+1 - Aldi's wine selection is decent, their ice wine is something we keep an eye out for its arrival as it usually sells out quickly.
They should also have an interesting sparkling red later this month if Aldi are following last years calendar
Well you learn something everyday. I have never heard of ice wine and had to look it up. It all seems pricy. What ball park price region are we talking about at Aldi and how do I identify it please?
My other joy of going to Aldi is for the laughs going down the centre isle. My favourites so far are:
1) Blocks to stop your caravan rolling away 2) Horse bridle 3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
I mean do they ever sell any of these? Who would go into Aldi on the off chance?
2) Horse bridle 3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
Those are both useful items. I do actually need to get a barrow wheel. Which ALDI was this ?
Until I replaced it, our loft ladder was from ALDI. Installed prior to us buying the house. Middle aisle special? Hard to imagine: "Let's see, beans, milk, toilet roll... Oh look, a loft ladder, that's a good deal, I'll just pop it in the trolley". And yet, there it was, in our house. Non-living proof.
Attlee was of the traditional Labour left, the idea of forging consensus around policies that were necessary and useful, he would not today be advocating nationalising large swathes of the economy.
He’s closer to Blair than Corbyn, I know that is hard for some to take
I strongly disagree. Blair was closer to Thatcher than to Attlee - and well to the right of Tory figures such as Macmillan, Heath, Macleod, Butler , Maudling - indeed even Baldwin.
Attlee closer to Blair than Corbyn. Blair closer to Thatcher than Attlee. These can BOTH be true.
C ............ A ....... B ... T
That is possible though I do not share the view that Attlee was even vaguely close to Blair on the political spectrum. It also implies that many pre-Thatcher Tory politicians were closer to Attlee than to Blair.
A week late but finally my "at least 1-in-50" prediction has borne fruit.
Can you predict something a bit more optimistic.
In November I'm spending 8/9 days in Glasgow/Edinburgh seeing Blondie (with Garbage as the warm up) and a week later The Offspring and I'm starting to get worried both will be cancelled.
Labour will obviously pleased to see a poll placing it 2% ahead of the Tories - particularly in the context of a 9% Green recorded share which is highly unlikely to be sustained at more than a third of that level in a GE. I also strongly suspect that if GB polls reveal similar findings on a continuing basis that Labour will recover a fair bit of ground in Scotland . Anti-Tory voters there will not wish to 'miss the party' if there is every indication of Labour being the obvious vehicle for ousting them. I have to say though that it has also revived my anger and contempt at Starmer's decision to hold the Hartlepool and Batley& Spen by elections last Spring and early Summer.The Hartlepool MP - deprived of the Labour Whip - could still be sitting as an Independent on the same basis that the Delyn MP is there.At the very earliest, however, no by election writ should have been issued until this week with a view to polling in October. It remains a very serious - and to me- unforgiveable self inflicted wound and failure of political leadership.
For those PBers still wetting themselves about the extra £4 a week NI
Daily Mail has a £5 off £25 spend at LIDL
First installment covered
Don't shop at Lidl, don't buy the Mail. Other than that, great plan!
Maybe you should, and just for you its also in the Metro which is free so you get a free £5 rather than a net£4.20 if you buy the Daily Mail.
Please feel free to ignore if you are so wealthy that the NI hit barely touches the sides.
I bought 3 Daily Mails yesterday
You were robbed, the internet says it's 65p. So net £4.35.
That's half of a bottle of Lidl's burgundy, mind. TY for the tip.
What on earth are you doing buying wine at Lidl ffs.
Aldi is where you want to be. Their house champagne is extremely decent (I have a bottle of it on me now as I go to visit the aged aunt). They also have a proper Gevrey Chambertin at twenty-five quid which will drink beautifully in a few years. Plus, whisper it, their £4.50 straight AOC claret is perfectly nice also as an everyday drinker.
That said, always happy to have recommendations from Lidl.
+1 - Aldi's wine selection is decent, their ice wine is something we keep an eye out for its arrival as it usually sells out quickly.
They should also have an interesting sparkling red later this month if Aldi are following last years calendar
Well you learn something everyday. I have never heard of ice wine and had to look it up. It all seems pricy. What ball park price region are we talking about at Aldi and how do I identify it please?
My other joy of going to Aldi is for the laughs going down the centre isle. My favourites so far are:
1) Blocks to stop your caravan rolling away 2) Horse bridle 3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
I mean do they ever sell any of these? Who would go into Aldi on the off chance?
2) Horse bridle 3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
Those are both useful items. I do actually need to get one a barrow wheel. Which ALDI was this ?
Spare wheelbarrow wheels are a thing - just google. I've just been buying spare parts for my inherited Workmate from Tools and Parts Direct so if you have the model number shove it into their website and see if it comes up. But DIY and builders' merchants stock them anyway. No need to bother with Aldi?
Were you able to put down a deposit on a house with your inherited Workmate?
No - old enough to be able to save for it (though mum and dad did speed things up with a gift, it was not essential). Even in 1987 pounds, a few thousand was much more achievable for a singleton than today.
But very pleased to find that even my late dad's ancient Workmate still had rubber feet and other bits available.
Attlee was of the traditional Labour left, the idea of forging consensus around policies that were necessary and useful, he would not today be advocating nationalising large swathes of the economy.
He’s closer to Blair than Corbyn, I know that is hard for some to take
I don't think it at all likely Attlee would have agreed to invade Iraq.
Attlee agreed to invade Iran to secure Iran's oil.
Indeed - a strategic calculation, rather than a strategic blunder.
I dread to think what rabbit hole this guy lives down. Lozza Fox as part of his all-conquering Gang of Four? As for William Clouston - am I supposed to know who that is?
Comments
Expect the obvious suspects (Mercedes, Red Bull, Toro Rosso, Ferrari, Mclaren) to get into Q3 as there is little chance slower cars (Williams) will get there.
If you start wearing it every day, even when you don't have a cold, then yes I would call it that.
But apart from @Ishmael_Z saying it was difficult to pin down what he believes in, which is a fair point to make as there is more description than solution, I don't think anyone has said he or his views are not "of the left".
Best wishes to her – I hope she cracks it.
But I fail to see why wearing a mask in a shop would cause any difficulty.
If the latter then that really is a substantial and fundamental shift in behavioural patterns.
Not the fact you don't wear a mask: the fact that you feel people who choose to as being moronic.
There's a covid quicktestingstation in a kiosk in the car park, free and no appointment needed. I have seen these everywhere; they may not be testing as many (though our figures include lots of schoolchildren?) but it is certainly super easy to get a quick test when out shopping, if you want.
On topic, current trends suggest London will remain beyond the Tories' reach, so there may not be much value in backing individual Tories so far out, with the additional risk of their own personal circumstances ruling them out of the race?
https://twitter.com/taylordauthor/status/1435997995661729792
My other joy of going to Aldi is for the laughs going down the centre isle. My favourites so far are:
1) Blocks to stop your caravan rolling away
2) Horse bridle
3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
I mean do they ever sell any of these? Who would go into Aldi on the off chance?
My reasons for not wearing a mask in a coffee shop.
1: Its pretty hard to drink coffee through a mask.
2: Cloth masks which are all most people are wearing, and disposable cheap clinical masks, not properly worn don't offer that much protection at all compared to getting vaccinated etc
3: If anyone is really bothered about the virus, they should be shielding or wearing a proper clinically safe mask like an FFP3 one which will protect far better than a cloth mask.
4: For anyone else who isn't vaccinated, or is OK with a vaccine breakthrough, better it occurs now over the summer than over the winter.
5: Even at the 'best' of times unless you ban sitting in, most people in a coffee shop would never be wearing a mask anyway. Because . . . see point 1.
6: Masks are stifling, uncomfortable and make communication harder.
I see absolutely no advantage to wearing a mask and only harms.
No? Please show your workings re Atlee and the lie
Attlee was in favour of wars abroad.
Attlee served in a Government with Tories.
Attlee would be called right wing by the Labour of today
He’s closer to Blair than Corbyn, I know that is hard for some to take
1. 921 deaths in the last week.
2. 272k people tested positive.
3. 6700 people admitted to hospital.
4. A wife who has had a serious lung condition in the last two years.
I'd love this pandemic to be over. I really would. But it isn't. People who think it is are the 'moronic' ones.
I have to say though that it has also revived my anger and contempt at Starmer's decision to hold the Hartlepool and Batley& Spen by elections last Spring and early Summer.The Hartlepool MP - deprived of the Labour Whip - could still be sitting as an Independent on the same basis that the Delyn MP is there.At the very earliest, however, no by election writ should have been issued until this week with a view to polling in October. It remains a very serious - and to me- unforgiveable self inflicted wound and failure of political leadership.
Working from home
Not shaking hands
Face coverings
https://twitter.com/BBCDanielS/status/1436309320082337801
Not a piece of rubbish cloth mask that is a bad joke, compared to vaccines or FFP3 masks.
Let alone relying upon strangers to wear a cloth mask, in a location they're sat down to drink coffee, which is an even worse joke.
The state is not the solution to every problem. Solutions cannot be resolved by the state just throwing money here, nationalising something there.
Railway nationalisation is something that to me makes objective sense. But I don’t see any need to nationalise BT, what’s the point in that?
2) Horse bridle
3 Spare wheelbarrow wheel
Those are both useful items.
I do actually need to get a barrow wheel. Which ALDI was this ?
There's a real danger that your argument can be used for anything 'different': would a child seeing a man with one leg be psychologically damaged by the sight, or realise that people are different, for whatever reason?
It means that the forceful campaign by the Daily Mail to stop her term being extended has failed. In that newspaper Stephen Glover called her Commissioner Cling-On
https://twitter.com/BBCDanielS/status/1436310454834507781?s=20
Errrhhh that isn't very impartial and is misleading from the BBC bod....it was far from just the Daily Mail campaigning for her to go. Tory MPs called for it, Baroness Lawrence and Ed Davey also called for it,....so individuals from across the political spectrum.
Did the current LOTO lie to become leader? I will unite our Party
Would the current LOTO have brought about the NHS?
😉
But I see you ignore the main thrust of my point: the pandemic is not over. Yes, lots of us are vaxxed but we've still got (I think) much higher figures than this time last year.
I still wear my mask, pretty much the only person on my bus that does each morning now but I will continue to do so for some time to come if needed.
The current LOTO probably would, to be honest even the Tories would have introduced something akin to the NHS, the work of which was in place under Churchill.
I’d argue Labour is more united now than it has been in years, it’s just the nutters have left and gone back to the SWP where they belong.
In November I'm spending 8/9 days in Glasgow/Edinburgh seeing Blondie (with Garbage as the warm up) and a week later The Offspring and I'm starting to get worried both will be cancelled.
There are better, good quality masks that actually work if you're concerned - but almost nobody wears them.
And for everyone else, getting back to normal is how we end the pandemic. If there's going to be a vaccine breakthrough, or an unvaccinated person is going to be infected, then its better it happens now than in winter.
Postponing infections until winter can only be harmful not helpful.
OTOH I didn't bother in the shop last evening.
It's not moronic to wear one, rather a personal choice.
I would not vote for Starmer but could live with him as PM, I could not have lived with Corbyn as PM
WFH clearly suits many. Childcare, the disabled, those with hours of commuting. Those who don't like their boss and colleagues.
Shaking hands? Who cares? Plenty of modern societies in Asia, cope perfectly well. Why not introduce kissing on the cheek if touch is so important?
Face coverings. I don't mind. If it helps it helps. Others do care deeply.
Whether these will damage will only be seen over time. Much of it depending on one's starting point. Whether society was working in your favour before.
More people died during partition that died during Iraq II.
Blair closer to Thatcher than Attlee.
These can BOTH be true.
C ............ A ....... B ... T
Generally if (a) I'm not consuming food or drink, (b) I'll be there for more than 5 minutes, and (c) it's unventilated and inside I'll wear one.
Idle anecdotery department - my very apolitical Russian-born mother met both the Webbs and Harold Laski socially after she settled in Britain in the late 30s. She thought the Webbs very boring but was charmed by Laski's manners - largely forgotten now, he seems to have been a sort of Tony Benn figure, very left-wing but courteous with it. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Laski)
This is something!
erm...
This is not the something that has to change
https://twitter.com/RichardOsley/status/1436300836204859393
http://camdennewjournal.com/article/chaotic-scenes-at-planning-meeting-as-anger-erupts-over-new-west-hampstead-development
On topic, unless Sadiq Khan wants to go back to Westminster (as part of a winning Labour Party presumably) he may as well stay Mayor until 2028 then find a Westminster seat in London (East Ham?) and then be part of the winning Labour Party.
Will he win in 2024?
Bailey did much better than many expected or anticipated including me. He won a Ward in Newham (Custom House) by 789 to 742 and the Conservative candidate in the East Ham Central by election polled a respectable 30%.
The question then becomes - who is the Conservative candidate that can reach the parts even Shaun Bailey couldn't reach? Unless Bailey finds a safe Westminster seat, I'm sure he'll be in the running for another go and there's the thing - he can either have the relatively certainty and obscurity of being a backbench MP or the uncertainty and profile of being London Mayor.
@TSE seems certain he knows the outcome of the next GE - as Richard Hoiles once said of Frankie Dettori after the Nunthorpe "he's sure I'm not".
More like the missing party.
But very pleased to find that even my late dad's ancient Workmate still had rubber feet and other bits available.
Another weekday-on-weekday rise. Less a peak and more a gently rising plateau.
BREAKING: Dominic Cummings says he is ‘looking into' starting an OnlyFans account
He's got the name for it.