It's complete bollox. I know that, Mike Smithson knows that, but do the vast majority of cretins who draw pensions and vote Tory know that?
My experience of them is that they are beyond reason. Many of them read the Daily Mail, ffs.
This is a tough one for Johnson.
Funny how the people who call voters cretins themselves seem to miss this affects future pensioners as well as current pensioners.
I'm a pensioner, ffs!
Alright I was taking a swing. It's early morning and I have a headache, but I know from experience just how irrational such voters can be when it coes to this topic. Many seem to think being old gives them the right to be mollycoddled. You try explaining it to them.
Even worse they think that they have "earned" it by paying NI (and electing governments which spent that money and ran a deficit overall). Another serious upside of the abolition of NI and its incorporation into IT is that this particular delusion will fade over time.
Well, I lived through the War and the troubles of the later 40's, so you might argue.....
Not that I am. Although I had some seriously ill-fortune at one time in my life, as a result of prudence and good luck in eventually getting a public service job I'm comfortable enough. So If the triple lock goes, so be it. I'd rather that than the cut in Universal Credit.
Absolutely. And Pension credit for those in hardship should be prioritised too. I have several friends who are now retiring on state or NHS pensions in excess of £60k a year plus a very nice lump sum to fund the holidoddles and I just don't see why they are getting the state pension at all. I would far rather have a more generous pension for those with no alternative sources of income and means test it for those who do. But then, I don't need to get elected.
My State Pension is round about the same as my Personal Allowance, so basically I'm paying tax on all my 'other' pensions. Which seems to me to be fair enough, although I'm by no means in the £60k pa category. I also get a bus pass, which under normal circumstances was worth about £3-4 pw, on average. And of course there's a bit off costs at various sports clubs and so on, Winter Fuel Allowance and £10 Christmas bonus.
Mine is quite a bit lower than the PA (I get the basic state pension). No bus pass as, as per previous post we don't really have buses! No winter fuel allowance (just missed it by a few weeks). Get the £10 Xmas bonus. No occupational pension. So no additional benefits really, but I am fine with that as they are small anyway. I do have a personal pension fund, but don't take a pension yet, other than a small lump sum to take me up to the PA each year and what I guess most would consider substantial assets to fall back on as I get older. Currently live on surplus cash.
Can I suggest getting a bus pass anyway, as even if you don't have buses, if you go 'away', in England, it'll be valid there. Includes London. Also photographic evidence for voting, and for other benefits.... sports clubs, theatres and so on.! You'll get WFA next year.
Cheers for that, very useful.
Re WFA - Nope I never get it I'm afraid. Rules changed and missed getting it by a few weeks. Although if I am wrong I would love to know about it.
Gov.uk site says you get it if: you were born on or before 26 September 1955 you lived in the UK for at least one day during the week of 20 to 26 September 2021 - this is called the ‘qualifying week’
But AFAIK that's the rule for 2021. Someone born before 26 September 1955 would now, or almost be, 66. 2022 will just move the year on one.
Cheers. I will look into this. I have been around this loop several times. I think you have earned a few beers from me today.
Thanks for the thought. Where there is age related 'stuff' from Government it seems to happen without any input from here...... thus when, a few years ago I reached 80 years of age, my pension went up ..... not a lot.... automatically. Same with my wife's earlier this year.
Sonntagsfrage zur Bundestagswahl • Kantar/FOCUS: CDU/CSU 23 % +1 | SPD 23 % +2| GRÜNE 18 % | FDP 12 % | AfD 11 % | DIE LINKE 7 % | Sonstige 6 %
SPD now level with Kantar - but no lead
If those numbers were repeated at the election you could even end up with another grand coalition between the Union and SPD but with Scholz chancellor and Laschet vice chancellor. One of the Greens or FDP would then need to be added too for a majority in the Bundestag
Team GB smashing it in the Paralympics. 12 medals already.
Good to see. So who do we think are the likely SPoTY nominees from the Paralympics?
The Paralympics have only been going two days – Britain got one gold on the first day and have now added five – so it is too early to tell who will make the SPotY shortlist.
But someone (or ones) will which again shows why we should be cautious about piling into SPotY betting. From the Olympics, Beth Shriever has just this week added the world championship to her Olympic gold medal in BMX yet is not expected to make the cut for SPotY – she is not quoted by any of the bookmakers or Betfair. Even speculative trading bets are riskier than normal this year, despite the failures of our football, cricket and rugby teams.
From a betting perspective, does the Paralympic nominee/s matter? I say this making no moral judgement, but it seems extremely unlikely any paralympian will have the public profile to trouble the likes of Daley/Kenny/etc.
Maybe. For instance, the cycling block vote could be terribly split and allow someone through the middle. My guesses are (a) that will happen but (b) it probably will not be a Paralympian, but it is too early to say that over the next few days one outstanding performance will not capture the nation's attention. More bluntly, adding Paralympians means removing Olympians.
Think even with these polls being all over the shop, we will see a Labour lead anyway, feeling good about my bet
As someone with the opposite bet, I'm inclined to agree with you. The 'true' Tory lead is barely large enough at the moment to stop statistical noise from giving a Labour leader with the odd outlier, and it seems to be slightly shrinking.
I agree that there will be a poll with a Lab lead in not all that long. It seems to me that polling measures and relies upon two linked but separate factors: who you would vote for according to the hypothetical question; and also the degree of enthusiasm with which you would do so.
My feeling is that Tory enthusiasm for voting Tory is less strong than it was, but that this does not especially pronounce itself in the polling. In a sense there is no mechanism for doing so, just as a vote in a real election is recorded as being either 100% in favour of X or 100% in favour of Y regardless of the depth of enthusiasm.
Polling is less good at measuring depth. In particular both Tory and non Tory voters face a special situation - there is nothing attractive or stellar about the alternatives. Those who didn't like Boris 2 years ago are not going to start liking him. Tories have no interesting or compelling alternatives. The other options are both confused (Labour policy on post Brexit anyone?) and dull.
There is an open door for an interesting politician who isn't Boris.
Cometh the hour cometh the man. Step forward The Richard Burgon. Paying reparations to the Taliban is the big policy idea that will grab people's attention.
Music fans heading to Reading and Leeds festival this week will have the opportunity to get their Covid vaccine, with pop-up clinics running at both sites.
Health officials say people will be able to grab a jab as easily as a beer or a burger - but stress those under the influence of alcohol or drugs will not be able to get vaccinated.
-------
Wouldn't it have been better to "encourage" those going to get jabbed before they even get there?
Music fans heading to Reading and Leeds festival this week will have the opportunity to get their Covid vaccine, with pop-up clinics running at both sites.
Health officials say people will be able to grab a jab as easily as a beer or a burger - but stress those under the influence of alcohol or drugs will not be able to get vaccinated.
-------
Wouldn't it have been better to "encourage" those going to get jabbed before they even get there?
There’s people at the Reading and Leeds festivals, who are not under the influence of alcohol or drugs?
Countries where coronavirus is being handled most effectively with the least social and economic disruption: 1. Norway 2. Netherlands 3. Finland 4. Ireland 5. Austria 6. Belgium 7. Germany 8. Singapore 9. Switzerland 10. Spain.
That seems like a really odd way to measure things, albeit an attempt to judge things on more than just cases and deaths.
The problem, I suspect, is if people want to condemn the UK being so low you end up with a situation where the UK is above NZ, and I'm not sure those who want to condemn will want to suggest Boris and co are doing better than them.
Since 'lockdown severity' is one of the measures these rankings will therefore surely be highly volatile, so I'm not sure how useful it can be in tracking Covid 'reslience'. Tracking current levels of disruption perhaps, but not resilience or assessing the response overall.
On Brexit (I know, I know...) there is a lot of guffawing at people like Jimmy Buchan who campaigned for Brexit and now says it has't delivered for his seafood industry.
For me they miss the obvious - so many people voted for Brexit because the status quo did not work for them. Seafood and fishing and farming were all tied up in CFP and CAP knots and were promised that free of EU regulations they would thrive. That the knots have been replaced by newer bigger knots is a huge source of frustration for them - they just wanted things to get better.
For Mr Buchan read millions of people in the red wall who voted Brexit and then Tory to make things better. Unless they are given tangible and obvious improvements to their lives, they aren't going to stick around backing Boris.
So, with an increasing list of practical things not working and two huge deteriorations even in that coming by new year, what does the government do? "Shut up moaning" won't cut it, nor will painting lipstick on the pig.
They are likely already reading David Skelton's new book, The New Snobbery (as they did with his previous Little Platoons) and we might well see some action from them as a result.
That snobbery he writes about is absolutely there. My point is more that having won these voters over the Tories now need to deliver. And they seem determined to pretend that the very real problems aren't there at all or are someone else's fault. Red wall voters aren't stupid.
Well that is of course the challenge. They will be judged on how much levelling up they actually are able to deliver (and also what it looks like). I think the starting gun was fired in 2019 and it remains to be seen how much of a time out they are allowed on account of the pandemic.
I get that most red wall voters don't care that we cast out NI and that you need a passport to take your dog there and soon won't be able to send a parcel there without £££. I get that most get irritated by Scott n'Paste type bleating. And that the growing supply crisis isn't severe enough or Brexity enough to make them go "hang on".
It won't be one "crisis" that makes them stop and think (unless we get a massive collapse in supplies at Christmas and there is no hiding from it being Brexit supply / labour). But there will be a "so where's our fucking moon on a stick you promised" where different groups wanted and were promised a different flavour of moon.
If the world collapses about them it won't be because of Brexit in their minds. It will be because of the government and they might apportion blame accordingly. Levelling up should have come independently of Brexit but the government now needs to make good on its claims otherwise face the ire of red wall voters and others.
The big problem we (the nation) face is that Lab atm seem so goddamn useless with far too many horror show throwbacks (as @Nigel_Foremain noted yesterday) for many previous Cons voters to support them.
So right now, I can't see beyond another Cons govt, no matter how or how much they level up.
Music fans heading to Reading and Leeds festival this week will have the opportunity to get their Covid vaccine, with pop-up clinics running at both sites.
Health officials say people will be able to grab a jab as easily as a beer or a burger - but stress those under the influence of alcohol or drugs will not be able to get vaccinated.
-------
Wouldn't it have been better to "encourage" those going to get jabbed before they even get there?
There’s people at the Reading and Leeds festivals, who are not under the influence of alcohol or drugs?
On Brexit (I know, I know...) there is a lot of guffawing at people like Jimmy Buchan who campaigned for Brexit and now says it has't delivered for his seafood industry.
For me they miss the obvious - so many people voted for Brexit because the status quo did not work for them. Seafood and fishing and farming were all tied up in CFP and CAP knots and were promised that free of EU regulations they would thrive. That the knots have been replaced by newer bigger knots is a huge source of frustration for them - they just wanted things to get better.
For Mr Buchan read millions of people in the red wall who voted Brexit and then Tory to make things better. Unless they are given tangible and obvious improvements to their lives, they aren't going to stick around backing Boris.
So, with an increasing list of practical things not working and two huge deteriorations even in that coming by new year, what does the government do? "Shut up moaning" won't cut it, nor will painting lipstick on the pig.
They are likely already reading David Skelton's new book, The New Snobbery (as they did with his previous Little Platoons) and we might well see some action from them as a result.
That snobbery he writes about is absolutely there. My point is more that having won these voters over the Tories now need to deliver. And they seem determined to pretend that the very real problems aren't there at all or are someone else's fault. Red wall voters aren't stupid.
Well that is of course the challenge. They will be judged on how much levelling up they actually are able to deliver (and also what it looks like). I think the starting gun was fired in 2019 and it remains to be seen how much of a time out they are allowed on account of the pandemic.
I get that most red wall voters don't care that we cast out NI and that you need a passport to take your dog there and soon won't be able to send a parcel there without £££. I get that most get irritated by Scott n'Paste type bleating. And that the growing supply crisis isn't severe enough or Brexity enough to make them go "hang on".
It won't be one "crisis" that makes them stop and think (unless we get a massive collapse in supplies at Christmas and there is no hiding from it being Brexit supply / labour). But there will be a "so where's our fucking moon on a stick you promised" where different groups wanted and were promised a different flavour of moon.
If the world collapses about them it won't be because of Brexit in their minds. It will be because of the government and they might apportion blame accordingly. Levelling up should have come independently of Brexit but the government now needs to make good on its claims otherwise face the ire of red wall voters and others.
The big problem we (the nation) face is that Lab atm seem so goddamn useless with far too many horror show throwbacks (as @Nigel_Foremain noted yesterday) for many previous Cons voters to support them.
So right now, I can't see beyond another Cons govt, no matter how or how much they level up.
Sure. I'm calling for the Liar's head, but I'm not expecting anything other than a Sunak victory in 2024. Labour have an Olympus Mons to climb and no signs that they are anywhere near even starting the process.
O/t, but just at the BBC commentary on the Test Match and there's a note that it's Red Wine Day on Saturday.
Damn, that sounds like a good enough reason to open that bottle of Margaux that’s been happily sitting on the top shelf of the wine rack for the past year, waiting for an occasion… 🍷
Music fans heading to Reading and Leeds festival this week will have the opportunity to get their Covid vaccine, with pop-up clinics running at both sites.
Health officials say people will be able to grab a jab as easily as a beer or a burger - but stress those under the influence of alcohol or drugs will not be able to get vaccinated.
-------
Wouldn't it have been better to "encourage" those going to get jabbed before they even get there?
There’s people at the Reading and Leeds festivals, who are not under the influence of alcohol or drugs?
Certainly - there may be a period where drugs have worn off, and they have yet to take some more, but that may be an issue of acquisition rather than intent.
Via @Kantar_UKI, 19-23 August, Changes w/ 12 July.
Another one showing an SNP drop.....(probably noise, but you never know...)
Here we go, politics as normal returning - government becoming unpopular mid-term, opposition gaining as a result.
Still think the goverment will win the next election with a reduced majority (1992 and 2005 all over again) but that will be it for this particular run for the Tories.
Labour back in government at the end of the decade.
Natiq Malikzada @natiqmalikzada ·17h This is not #Kabulairport, this is Spin Boldak border where thousands of people wants to flee Afghanistan to Pakistan. The situation here is far worse than the situation at #KabulAirport but because there are no foreign forces here, it has not been covered by the media.
It's complete bollox. I know that, Mike Smithson knows that, but do the vast majority of cretins who draw pensions and vote Tory know that?
My experience of them is that they are beyond reason. Many of them read the Daily Mail, ffs.
This is a tough one for Johnson.
Funny how the people who call voters cretins themselves seem to miss this affects future pensioners as well as current pensioners.
I'm a pensioner, ffs!
Alright I was taking a swing. It's early morning and I have a headache, but I know from experience just how irrational such voters can be when it coes to this topic. Many seem to think being old gives them the right to be mollycoddled. You try explaining it to them.
Even worse they think that they have "earned" it by paying NI (and electing governments which spent that money and ran a deficit overall). Another serious upside of the abolition of NI and its incorporation into IT is that this particular delusion will fade over time.
Well, I lived through the War and the troubles of the later 40's, so you might argue.....
Not that I am. Although I had some seriously ill-fortune at one time in my life, as a result of prudence and good luck in eventually getting a public service job I'm comfortable enough. So If the triple lock goes, so be it. I'd rather that than the cut in Universal Credit.
Absolutely. And Pension credit for those in hardship should be prioritised too. I have several friends who are now retiring on state or NHS pensions in excess of £60k a year plus a very nice lump sum to fund the holidoddles and I just don't see why they are getting the state pension at all. I would far rather have a more generous pension for those with no alternative sources of income and means test it for those who do. But then, I don't need to get elected.
My State Pension is round about the same as my Personal Allowance, so basically I'm paying tax on all my 'other' pensions. Which seems to me to be fair enough, although I'm by no means in the £60k pa category. I also get a bus pass, which under normal circumstances was worth about £3-4 pw, on average. And of course there's a bit off costs at various sports clubs and so on, Winter Fuel Allowance and £10 Christmas bonus.
Mine is quite a bit lower than the PA (I get the basic state pension). No bus pass as, as per previous post we don't really have buses! No winter fuel allowance (just missed it by a few weeks). Get the £10 Xmas bonus. No occupational pension. So no additional benefits really, but I am fine with that as they are small anyway. I do have a personal pension fund, but don't take a pension yet, other than a small lump sum to take me up to the PA each year and what I guess most would consider substantial assets to fall back on as I get older. Currently live on surplus cash.
Can I suggest getting a bus pass anyway, as even if you don't have buses, if you go 'away', in England, it'll be valid there. Includes London. Also photographic evidence for voting, and for other benefits.... sports clubs, theatres and so on.! You'll get WFA next year.
Cheers for that, very useful.
Re WFA - Nope I never get it I'm afraid. Rules changed and missed getting it by a few weeks. Although if I am wrong I would love to know about it.
Gov.uk site says you get it if: you were born on or before 26 September 1955 you lived in the UK for at least one day during the week of 20 to 26 September 2021 - this is called the ‘qualifying week’
But AFAIK that's the rule for 2021. Someone born before 26 September 1955 would now, or almost be, 66. 2022 will just move the year on one.
Cheers. I will look into this. I have been around this loop several times. I think you have earned a few beers from me today.
Thanks for the thought. Where there is age related 'stuff' from Government it seems to happen without any input from here...... thus when, a few years ago I reached 80 years of age, my pension went up ..... not a lot.... automatically. Same with my wife's earlier this year.
It is looking hopeful (not that I approve). I could detail out the cockups I have made on this front (as well as some badly worded and misleading bumph), but it would take me too long and just make me look a bigger idiot than I am.
Team GB smashing it in the Paralympics. 12 medals already.
Good to see. So who do we think are the likely SPoTY nominees from the Paralympics?
The Paralympics have only been going two days – Britain got one gold on the first day and have now added five – so it is too early to tell who will make the SPotY shortlist.
But someone (or ones) will which again shows why we should be cautious about piling into SPotY betting. From the Olympics, Beth Shriever has just this week added the world championship to her Olympic gold medal in BMX yet is not expected to make the cut for SPotY – she is not quoted by any of the bookmakers or Betfair. Even speculative trading bets are riskier than normal this year, despite the failures of our football, cricket and rugby teams.
From a betting perspective, does the Paralympic nominee/s matter? I say this making no moral judgement, but it seems extremely unlikely any paralympian will have the public profile to trouble the likes of Daley/Kenny/etc.
Maybe. For instance, the cycling block vote could be terribly split and allow someone through the middle. My guesses are (a) that will happen but (b) it probably will not be a Paralympian, but it is too early to say that over the next few days one outstanding performance will not capture the nation's attention. More bluntly, adding Paralympians means removing Olympians.
It doesn't have to mean that. The shortlist can be as long as they want, and in Olympic years is frequently longer than usual.
It's complete bollox. I know that, Mike Smithson knows that, but do the vast majority of cretins who draw pensions and vote Tory know that?
My experience of them is that they are beyond reason. Many of them read the Daily Mail, ffs.
This is a tough one for Johnson.
Funny how the people who call voters cretins themselves seem to miss this affects future pensioners as well as current pensioners.
I'm a pensioner, ffs!
Alright I was taking a swing. It's early morning and I have a headache, but I know from experience just how irrational such voters can be when it coes to this topic. Many seem to think being old gives them the right to be mollycoddled. You try explaining it to them.
One of the odder things is the number of reduced prices pensioners get.
Something which started when there were far fewer pensioners and when they tended to be far poorer.
But why should a pensioner now get lower priced entry to a sports match for example.
Another greedy envious git whining and whinging.
Have you ever surprised on the upside Malcolm ?
Yes. Sometimes.
Incredible the hatred of pensioners on here. I cannot understand why people would not be happy for pensioners getting a few bob extra after having worked all their lives. I never fail to be amazed at how many people are so greedy and envious of others rather than wishing other people well.
It's complete bollox. I know that, Mike Smithson knows that, but do the vast majority of cretins who draw pensions and vote Tory know that?
My experience of them is that they are beyond reason. Many of them read the Daily Mail, ffs.
This is a tough one for Johnson.
Funny how the people who call voters cretins themselves seem to miss this affects future pensioners as well as current pensioners.
I'm a pensioner, ffs!
Alright I was taking a swing. It's early morning and I have a headache, but I know from experience just how irrational such voters can be when it coes to this topic. Many seem to think being old gives them the right to be mollycoddled. You try explaining it to them.
One of the odder things is the number of reduced prices pensioners get.
Something which started when there were far fewer pensioners and when they tended to be far poorer.
But why should a pensioner now get lower priced entry to a sports match for example.
Another greedy envious git whining and whinging.
Have you ever surprised on the upside Malcolm ?
Yes. Sometimes.
Incredible the hatred of pensioners on here. I cannot understand why people would not be happy for pensioners getting a few bob extra after having worked all their lives. I never fail to be amazed at how many people are so greedy and envious of others rather than wishing other people well.
And now a word from Chancellor Sunak from his Yorkshire constituency: "I'm giving them nowt, why should you get owt?"
It's complete bollox. I know that, Mike Smithson knows that, but do the vast majority of cretins who draw pensions and vote Tory know that?
My experience of them is that they are beyond reason. Many of them read the Daily Mail, ffs.
This is a tough one for Johnson.
Funny how the people who call voters cretins themselves seem to miss this affects future pensioners as well as current pensioners.
I'm a pensioner, ffs!
Alright I was taking a swing. It's early morning and I have a headache, but I know from experience just how irrational such voters can be when it coes to this topic. Many seem to think being old gives them the right to be mollycoddled. You try explaining it to them.
One of the odder things is the number of reduced prices pensioners get.
Something which started when there were far fewer pensioners and when they tended to be far poorer.
But why should a pensioner now get lower priced entry to a sports match for example.
Another greedy envious git whining and whinging.
Have you ever surprised on the upside Malcolm ?
Yes. Sometimes.
Incredible the hatred of pensioners on here. I cannot understand why people would not be happy for pensioners getting a few bob extra after having worked all their lives. I never fail to be amazed at how many people are so greedy and envious of others rather than wishing other people well.
What about sympathy for people actually working, we're constantly told if we just ate fewer avocados we'd all be rich, the condescending nature of political discourse involving young people is what makes me really angry.
It's complete bollox. I know that, Mike Smithson knows that, but do the vast majority of cretins who draw pensions and vote Tory know that?
My experience of them is that they are beyond reason. Many of them read the Daily Mail, ffs.
This is a tough one for Johnson.
Funny how the people who call voters cretins themselves seem to miss this affects future pensioners as well as current pensioners.
I'm a pensioner, ffs!
Alright I was taking a swing. It's early morning and I have a headache, but I know from experience just how irrational such voters can be when it coes to this topic. Many seem to think being old gives them the right to be mollycoddled. You try explaining it to them.
One of the odder things is the number of reduced prices pensioners get.
Something which started when there were far fewer pensioners and when they tended to be far poorer.
But why should a pensioner now get lower priced entry to a sports match for example.
Another greedy envious git whining and whinging.
Have you ever surprised on the upside Malcolm ?
Yes. Sometimes.
Incredible the hatred of pensioners on here. I cannot understand why people would not be happy for pensioners getting a few bob extra after having worked all their lives. I never fail to be amazed at how many people are so greedy and envious of others rather than wishing other people well.
For some to get a few bob extra, others have to get a few bob less.......
- “Are you in favour of the Draft Co-operation Agreement that has been reached between the SNP Scottish Government and the Scottish Green Party Parliamentary Group?”
I voted yes.
Voting will close at 10am on Saturday 28 August 2021.
I voted no. Apart from the Greens in government being bad for the economy and for the rights of women and safety of children, it’s one of very few opportunities as an ordinary SNP member to express my dissatisfaction with the current leadership.
The stereotype that if you're young you must be stupid if you're left wing is alive and well whenever I converse with older people. You're not stupid if you vote Tory though, no of course not
Mr. Pioneers, not sure the fool in Number 10 will be ousted quite so quickly, alas.
Mr Dancer, the fools are the ones that are keeping him in power.
They are the ones who will inherit the shattered wreck of the conservative party when he is done with it. He will be swanning off around the world earning millions from talks etc.
Mr. Pioneers, not sure the fool in Number 10 will be ousted quite so quickly, alas.
Part of Johnson's genius is an understanding of raw power- Sunak is fine because he's an underling, but any actual rivals have been cast into the outer darkness.
Johnson will go when he wants to go. On the other hand, his need for money and his petulance when people are mean to him might mean that happens more quickly than for a normal PM.
Team GB smashing it in the Paralympics. 12 medals already.
Good to see. So who do we think are the likely SPoTY nominees from the Paralympics?
The Paralympics have only been going two days – Britain got one gold on the first day and have now added five – so it is too early to tell who will make the SPotY shortlist.
But someone (or ones) will which again shows why we should be cautious about piling into SPotY betting. From the Olympics, Beth Shriever has just this week added the world championship to her Olympic gold medal in BMX yet is not expected to make the cut for SPotY – she is not quoted by any of the bookmakers or Betfair. Even speculative trading bets are riskier than normal this year, despite the failures of our football, cricket and rugby teams.
From a betting perspective, does the Paralympic nominee/s matter? I say this making no moral judgement, but it seems extremely unlikely any paralympian will have the public profile to trouble the likes of Daley/Kenny/etc.
Maybe. For instance, the cycling block vote could be terribly split and allow someone through the middle. My guesses are (a) that will happen but (b) it probably will not be a Paralympian, but it is too early to say that over the next few days one outstanding performance will not capture the nation's attention. More bluntly, adding Paralympians means removing Olympians.
It doesn't have to mean that. The shortlist can be as long as they want, and in Olympic years is frequently longer than usual.
Conceptually it does, however long is the hypothetical list. Britain won 22 gold medals at the Olympics and is already up to six in the Paralympics. The long shortlist in 2016 was 16 iirc. We've just been too successful
It makes no logical sense to apply the triple lock this year – that’s obvious and so we must scrabble around for a fresh angle on the subject. I think I have one.
In almost every conceivable way it’s better to be young than old. I won’t list all the ways – not in the mood – and I don’t need to. Not expecting an argument on the point.
Why is this relevant to the thread topic of pensions? It’s relevant because the core issue is equity between the generations. What we usually hear is that the young are subsidizing the old. Which is true. They do. But think of it a different way. The young have copious amounts of something very precious – time. Time is the most precious commodity on the planet since it’s needed for literally everything and is strictly limited in supply, extra amounts cannot under any circumstances be manufactured.
This isn't an airy fairy intangible asset it has hard monetary value. Eg, the average 61 year old would be willing to pay approx 50% (maybe more) of their net worth in order to become an average 21 year old. That’s just by way of illustration, some would pay less, some more, and in general the older you are the more you’d be willing to cough up. Let’s not quibble on the detail. The point I’m making is that when you bring in this metric – which is both genuine and material - young people start to look much £££ wealthier and old people much £££ poorer. Once in this frame of mind the objection to one year’s triple lock anomaly seems petty.
Why not pay pensions and other benefits at least the amount of the minimum wage for a 35 hour week? Then stop all the other discounts like bus passes? Also set the tax free allowance at the rate of the minimum wage. I would also simplify the system by combining income tax and National Insurance into one rate. Simples (maybe).
Mr. Pioneers, not sure the fool in Number 10 will be ousted quite so quickly, alas.
Part of Johnson's genius is an understanding of raw power- Sunak is fine because he's an underling, but any actual rivals have been cast into the outer darkness.
Johnson will go when he wants to go. On the other hand, his need for money and his petulance when people are mean to him might mean that happens more quickly than for a normal PM.
I'm not aware of anyone being mean to him. Might have told him some home truths, of course.
The stereotype that if you're young you must be stupid if you're left wing is alive and well whenever I converse with older people. You're not stupid if you vote Tory though, no of course not
Whenever you speak to an older person they tell you that you are stupid? They don’t sound particularly friendly.
It's complete bollox. I know that, Mike Smithson knows that, but do the vast majority of cretins who draw pensions and vote Tory know that?
My experience of them is that they are beyond reason. Many of them read the Daily Mail, ffs.
This is a tough one for Johnson.
Funny how the people who call voters cretins themselves seem to miss this affects future pensioners as well as current pensioners.
I'm a pensioner, ffs!
Alright I was taking a swing. It's early morning and I have a headache, but I know from experience just how irrational such voters can be when it coes to this topic. Many seem to think being old gives them the right to be mollycoddled. You try explaining it to them.
One of the odder things is the number of reduced prices pensioners get.
Something which started when there were far fewer pensioners and when they tended to be far poorer.
But why should a pensioner now get lower priced entry to a sports match for example.
Another greedy envious git whining and whinging.
Have you ever surprised on the upside Malcolm ?
Yes. Sometimes.
Incredible the hatred of pensioners on here. I cannot understand why people would not be happy for pensioners getting a few bob extra after having worked all their lives. I never fail to be amazed at how many people are so greedy and envious of others rather than wishing other people well.
I do not hate pensioners. But I find the logic of 'happy for pensioners getting a few bob extra after having worked all their lives' to be really peculiar, and I heard the same thing from people about the Waspi stuff. By that logic no negative impact change could ever be permitted, no matter how justified, because people have 'worked all their lives'. But sometimes negative changes for one group are justified.
It's not a question of whether people deserve specific things after working their whole lives, people deserve a lot of things they don't get - care workers and better pay spring to mind - but it is a question of whether the existing situation is reasonable and affordable for society as a whole in a particular context, and whether proposals to benefit or in this case disadvantage pensions are reasonable or not.
Many will think it is not, but treating proposals to do so automatically as unfair because people have worked all their lives, or that it is driven by hatred, is as silly as when NHS veneration prevents consideration of potentially sensible ideas.
Pensioners do not have a god given right to an 8% or whatever rise from the triple lock because they have worked all their lives. At what point would it be unreasonable to not just 'wish people well'? The lock did not always exist so would be outrageous to return to a policy where it did not?
Some may say so, we've seen the argument the state pension in the UK is too low, but whether it is right or wrong I find it unconvincing that a political policy is being proffered as some inalienable right that people should just wish people well over. I think that could be extended into a great many areas.
Today’s LibDem annual report for 2020, published this morning by the Electoral Commission, does not make for happy reading. At the very end of the 25-page audit, the party reveals that in one year their membership collapsed from 126,724, to 98,247 – a fall of 22.5%.
The stereotype that if you're young you must be stupid if you're left wing is alive and well whenever I converse with older people. You're not stupid if you vote Tory though, no of course not
I wonder what you're saying to them to elicit that sort of response!
I don't think anyone is 'stupid' for voting for any of the mainstream parties: in fact, virtually any party. They can have reasons for doing so that I think are stupid, though. But I might well be stupid in thinking that their reasons are stupid ...
The stereotype that if you're young you must be stupid if you're left wing is alive and well whenever I converse with older people. You're not stupid if you vote Tory though, no of course not
Whenever you speak to an older person they tell you that you are stupid? They don’t sound particularly friendly.
I should say *some* older people, clearly not all. But yes unfortunately I have to converse with a few that are like this, family friends etc
Today’s LibDem annual report for 2020, published this morning by the Electoral Commission, does not make for happy reading. At the very end of the 25-page audit, the party reveals that in one year their membership collapsed from 126,724, to 98,247 – a fall of 22.5%.
Mr. Pioneers, not sure the fool in Number 10 will be ousted quite so quickly, alas.
Part of Johnson's genius is an understanding of raw power- Sunak is fine because he's an underling, but any actual rivals have been cast into the outer darkness.
Johnson will go when he wants to go. On the other hand, his need for money and his petulance when people are mean to him might mean that happens more quickly than for a normal PM.
I'm not aware of anyone being mean to him. Might have told him some home truths, of course.
There's that horrible jumped-up lawyer chap who keeps asking him questions about his actions that he can't answer. Not just once, but six times in a row. Every bally week.
That's clearly unfair.
And as for that lady with the big necklaces who keeps saying that he's doing things wrong. She's meant to be supporting him. What's Boris ever done to her?
Mr. Pioneers, not sure the fool in Number 10 will be ousted quite so quickly, alas.
Part of Johnson's genius is an understanding of raw power- Sunak is fine because he's an underling, but any actual rivals have been cast into the outer darkness.
Johnson will go when he wants to go. On the other hand, his need for money and his petulance when people are mean to him might mean that happens more quickly than for a normal PM.
Johnson probably understands his personal political power. He certainly does not understand the UK's (or our relative lack of it).
The stereotype that if you're young you must be stupid if you're left wing is alive and well whenever I converse with older people. You're not stupid if you vote Tory though, no of course not
Whenever you speak to an older person they tell you that you are stupid? They don’t sound particularly friendly.
As (possibly) the oldest person here I might tell people they're foolish to vote Tory, but I'd never tell someone that if they describe themselves as left-wing.
The stereotype that if you're young you must be stupid if you're left wing is alive and well whenever I converse with older people. You're not stupid if you vote Tory though, no of course not
I wonder what you're saying to them to elicit that sort of response!
I don't think anyone is 'stupid' for voting for any of the mainstream parties: in fact, virtually any party. They can have reasons for doing so that I think are stupid, though. But I might well be stupid in thinking that their reasons are stupid ...
I had one conversation that went like this.
"I don't think that all of Labour's plans are bad, I would like the railways to be publicly owned"
"You young people, you don't remember the 70s, with all those strikes, in a few years you'll realise how stupid you were to think these things, you'll grow up and you'll vote Tory"
I'm paraphrasing but that is how it went, "how stupid you were" was definitely in there. Sadly I can't just cut off this individual as they're a family friend
Whirlybirds are just not natural. That looks like a very lucky escape.
Probably LTE due to tail rotor vortex ring state.
Unless you've got airspeed or altitude you are more fucked than a pensioner expecting 8% when this occurs. The Mi-17-1V like all Hip variants is a big old barge that needs a firm hand and nerves to steel to recover from uncommanded yaw.
It makes no logical sense to apply the triple lock this year – that’s obvious and so we must scrabble around for a fresh angle on the subject. I think I have one.
In almost every conceivable way it’s better to be young than old. I won’t list all the ways – not in the mood – and I don’t need to. Not expecting an argument on the point.
Why is this relevant to the thread topic of pensions? It’s relevant because the core issue is equity between the generations. What we usually hear is that the young are subsidizing the old. Which is true. They do. But think of it a different way. The young have copious amounts of something very precious – time. Time is the most precious commodity on the planet since it’s needed for literally everything and is strictly limited in supply, extra amounts cannot under any circumstances be manufactured.
This isn't an airy fairy intangible asset it has hard monetary value. Eg, the average 61 year old would be willing to pay approx 50% (maybe more) of their net worth in order to become an average 21 year old. That’s just by way of illustration, some would pay less, some more, and in general the older you are the more you’d be willing to cough up. Let’s not quibble on the detail. The point I’m making is that when you bring in this metric – which is both genuine and material - young people start to look much £££ wealthier and old people much £££ poorer. Once in this frame of mind the objection to one year’s triple lock anomaly seems petty.
Strong contender for WAOTY that one! (Weirdest argument of the year).
It's complete bollox. I know that, Mike Smithson knows that, but do the vast majority of cretins who draw pensions and vote Tory know that?
My experience of them is that they are beyond reason. Many of them read the Daily Mail, ffs.
This is a tough one for Johnson.
Funny how the people who call voters cretins themselves seem to miss this affects future pensioners as well as current pensioners.
I'm a pensioner, ffs!
Alright I was taking a swing. It's early morning and I have a headache, but I know from experience just how irrational such voters can be when it coes to this topic. Many seem to think being old gives them the right to be mollycoddled. You try explaining it to them.
One of the odder things is the number of reduced prices pensioners get.
Something which started when there were far fewer pensioners and when they tended to be far poorer.
But why should a pensioner now get lower priced entry to a sports match for example.
Another greedy envious git whining and whinging.
Have you ever surprised on the upside Malcolm ?
Yes. Sometimes.
Incredible the hatred of pensioners on here. I cannot understand why people would not be happy for pensioners getting a few bob extra after having worked all their lives. I never fail to be amazed at how many people are so greedy and envious of others rather than wishing other people well.
What about the pensioners who haven’t worked all their lives?
As a schoolboy I used to try that sort of thing, it could be surprisingly effective, at least to start with as people were not expecting even my lame efforts. It was hell on my shoulder though even then.
The stereotype that if you're young you must be stupid if you're left wing is alive and well whenever I converse with older people. You're not stupid if you vote Tory though, no of course not
The labour party has, all along, advocated and voted for making covid even harder for young people to weather than the government.
Harder, longer lockdowns. Longer suspension of education and more interruptions. More restrictions on travel, association, assembly, exercise, and everything else that young people love than we actually had.
Now ask yourself CHB, as a young person, are you stupid for supporting a party that championed that agenda?
The stereotype that if you're young you must be stupid if you're left wing is alive and well whenever I converse with older people. You're not stupid if you vote Tory though, no of course not
Whenever you speak to an older person they tell you that you are stupid? They don’t sound particularly friendly.
As (possibly) the oldest person here I might tell people they're foolish to vote Tory, but I'd never tell someone that if they describe themselves as left-wing.
Why would you say that about anyone’s voting intention? It’s just rude.
I don't think anyone is stupid for voting anyway they want - it's one of my biggest annoyances with the Labour Party at the moment, that people that vote Tory must be racist, thick etc - but I do think there is an idea around that young people are stupid and don't do any work
Today’s LibDem annual report for 2020, published this morning by the Electoral Commission, does not make for happy reading. At the very end of the 25-page audit, the party reveals that in one year their membership collapsed from 126,724, to 98,247 – a fall of 22.5%.
Whirlybirds are just not natural. That looks like a very lucky escape.
Only "lucky" in the sense it could have been worse.
Not "lucky" in the sense of pure chance; the pilot appears to have done a very good job under extreme pressure.
Oh of course. Helicopters are horrible things when they start to go wrong, and they have lots of complicated mechanics that can go wrong. A fast rotation of the body is usually indicative of a tail rotor failure (or an incapacitated pilot), which low down is almost impossible to control. (Edit: Dura has a good suggestion of why the tail rotor became ineffective, a complex movement of air that washes air from the main rotor across the tail rotor).
I suspect that he wasn’t trying to land, but was forced into a field by the failure. The previous minute of footage would be useful.
I don't think anyone is stupid for voting anyway they want - it's one of my biggest annoyances with the Labour Party at the moment, that people that vote Tory must be racist, thick etc - but I do think there is an idea around that young people are stupid and don't do any work
Not true. Young people have put last by both the tories and labour during the pandemic, and that awful treatment goes on to this day.
And I don't have any hatred towards pensioners at all, I just think if you were to investigate, young people have had a rotten deal over the last many years and in general pensioners have not.
I am not sure what the solution to that is - but it is rich for older people who did not have student loans, ridiculous house prices to say that the solution is just to be a bit more frugal and eat fewer avocados.
As a schoolboy I used to try that sort of thing, it could be surprisingly effective, at least to start with as people were not expecting even my lame efforts. It was hell on my shoulder though even then.
The Craig White approach was also incredibly effective. I used to play with somebody who had a near identical delivery to him and was quicker than me coming in off a Brett Lee style run up.
The stereotype that if you're young you must be stupid if you're left wing is alive and well whenever I converse with older people. You're not stupid if you vote Tory though, no of course not
Whenever you speak to an older person they tell you that you are stupid? They don’t sound particularly friendly.
As (possibly) the oldest person here I might tell people they're foolish to vote Tory, but I'd never tell someone that if they describe themselves as left-wing.
Why would you say that about anyone’s voting intention? It’s just rude.
I don't think anyone is stupid for voting anyway they want - it's one of my biggest annoyances with the Labour Party at the moment, that people that vote Tory must be racist, thick etc - but I do think there is an idea around that young people are stupid and don't do any work
My main problem with malc's argument is that he is in effect arguing older people are more worthy because they've worked longer. Now, different groups will have more or less needs than others, we put more money into those areas and toward those groups of course, but everything still needs to be considered in terms of societal benefit, not whether it would be nice for that specific group.
So is retraining the triple lock good for them and makes sense for society as a whole, not that they've worked hard so deserve a treat as compared to those shiftless young people.
It's complete bollox. I know that, Mike Smithson knows that, but do the vast majority of cretins who draw pensions and vote Tory know that?
My experience of them is that they are beyond reason. Many of them read the Daily Mail, ffs.
This is a tough one for Johnson.
Funny how the people who call voters cretins themselves seem to miss this affects future pensioners as well as current pensioners.
I'm a pensioner, ffs!
Alright I was taking a swing. It's early morning and I have a headache, but I know from experience just how irrational such voters can be when it coes to this topic. Many seem to think being old gives them the right to be mollycoddled. You try explaining it to them.
Even worse they think that they have "earned" it by paying NI (and electing governments which spent that money and ran a deficit overall). Another serious upside of the abolition of NI and its incorporation into IT is that this particular delusion will fade over time.
Well, I lived through the War and the troubles of the later 40's, so you might argue.....
Not that I am. Although I had some seriously ill-fortune at one time in my life, as a result of prudence and good luck in eventually getting a public service job I'm comfortable enough. So If the triple lock goes, so be it. I'd rather that than the cut in Universal Credit.
Absolutely. And Pension credit for those in hardship should be prioritised too. I have several friends who are now retiring on state or NHS pensions in excess of £60k a year plus a very nice lump sum to fund the holidoddles and I just don't see why they are getting the state pension at all. I would far rather have a more generous pension for those with no alternative sources of income and means test it for those who do. But then, I don't need to get elected.
This is what I was saying a few weeks ago when the subject last came up. Make if more generous for people with low private income, reduce or eliminate it for people in the higher tax rate. Any pensioner earning £50k+ from private sources just doesn't need the state pension. That's a huge saving which can be spent on actually helping those older people who need it because their careers didn't provide them with a solid retirement fund.
Bollox as usual. You would spend more time on an army of drones working out who gets it and who does not and then if next year they are not on high rate tax it all has to change. Stupid stupid idea and a bureaucratic nightmare.
It's complete bollox. I know that, Mike Smithson knows that, but do the vast majority of cretins who draw pensions and vote Tory know that?
My experience of them is that they are beyond reason. Many of them read the Daily Mail, ffs.
This is a tough one for Johnson.
Funny how the people who call voters cretins themselves seem to miss this affects future pensioners as well as current pensioners.
I'm a pensioner, ffs!
Alright I was taking a swing. It's early morning and I have a headache, but I know from experience just how irrational such voters can be when it coes to this topic. Many seem to think being old gives them the right to be mollycoddled. You try explaining it to them.
Even worse they think that they have "earned" it by paying NI (and electing governments which spent that money and ran a deficit overall). Another serious upside of the abolition of NI and its incorporation into IT is that this particular delusion will fade over time.
Well, I lived through the War and the troubles of the later 40's, so you might argue.....
Not that I am. Although I had some seriously ill-fortune at one time in my life, as a result of prudence and good luck in eventually getting a public service job I'm comfortable enough. So If the triple lock goes, so be it. I'd rather that than the cut in Universal Credit.
Absolutely. And Pension credit for those in hardship should be prioritised too. I have several friends who are now retiring on state or NHS pensions in excess of £60k a year plus a very nice lump sum to fund the holidoddles and I just don't see why they are getting the state pension at all. I would far rather have a more generous pension for those with no alternative sources of income and means test it for those who do. But then, I don't need to get elected.
This is what I was saying a few weeks ago when the subject last came up. Make if more generous for people with low private income, reduce or eliminate it for people in the higher tax rate. Any pensioner earning £50k+ from private sources just doesn't need the state pension. That's a huge saving which can be spent on actually helping those older people who need it because their careers didn't provide them with a solid retirement fund.
Bollox as usual. You would spend more time on an army of drones working out who gets it and who does not and then if next year they are not on high rate tax it all has to change. Stupid stupid idea and a bureaucratic nightmare.
It’s not a bureaucratic nightmare, just a taper on the state pension based on your income.
The focus seems to be on the Triple Lock, why not a refund or a rebate for students who have been taught from home for the last year+? Why are they ignored?
Following my comment in a thread yesterday about GP surgeries appearing to be the only places still in lockdown, it seems that GPs want to keep it that way. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-58341349
The focus seems to be on the Triple Lock, why not a refund or a rebate for students who have been taught from home for the last year+? Why are they ignored?
The focus seems to be on the Triple Lock, why not a refund or a rebate for students who have been taught from home for the last year+? Why are they ignored?
One reason is they do not vote.
Old people do.
They do vote, just not in large enough quantities - but I very much agree with the basis of your point.
Today’s LibDem annual report for 2020, published this morning by the Electoral Commission, does not make for happy reading. At the very end of the 25-page audit, the party reveals that in one year their membership collapsed from 126,724, to 98,247 – a fall of 22.5%.
Whirlybirds are just not natural. That looks like a very lucky escape.
Probably LTE due to tail rotor vortex ring state.
Unless you've got airspeed or altitude you are more fucked than a pensioner expecting 8% when this occurs. The Mi-17-1V like all Hip variants is a big old barge that needs a firm hand and nerves to steel to recover from uncommanded yaw.
Yes, that’s a plausible reason for the failure (which I’d not read about for a decade or so!).
Airspeed and altitude, two of a pilot’s three best friends, no matter what he’s flying. Fuel is the other one, unless he’s on fire!
I don't think anyone is stupid for voting anyway they want - it's one of my biggest annoyances with the Labour Party at the moment, that people that vote Tory must be racist, thick etc - but I do think there is an idea around that young people are stupid and don't do any work
My main problem with malc's argument is that he is in effect arguing older people are more worthy because they've worked longer. Now, different groups will have more or less needs than others, we put more money into those areas and toward those groups of course, but everything still needs to be considered in terms of societal benefit, not whether it would be nice for that specific group.
So is retraining the triple lock good for them and makes sense for society as a whole, not that they've worked hard so deserve a treat as compared to those shiftless young people.
I am not arguing they are more worthy , I am stating clearly that they paid for a pension and they should receive that pension. The government made legal commitments on that and have to keep to them. If they want to change it then they can change the legal agreements.
The focus seems to be on the Triple Lock, why not a refund or a rebate for students who have been taught from home for the last year+? Why are they ignored?
One reason is they do not vote.
Old people do.
They do vote, just not in large enough quantities - but I very much agree with the basis of your point.
And I agree with the basis of yours. Young people have been treated very badly in this pandemic and it is time it stopped. High time.
The focus seems to be on the Triple Lock, why not a refund or a rebate for students who have been taught from home for the last year+? Why are they ignored?
One reason is they do not vote.
Old people do.
They do vote, just not in large enough quantities - but I very much agree with the basis of your point.
And I agree with the basis of yours. Young people have been treated very badly in this pandemic and it is time it stopped. High time.
Young people have been treated badly for the last twenty+ years, it did not start with COVID.
I am fortunate enough to be in the position to be buying a house due to inherited money, if I didn't have that I would be utterly screwed and I am a higher earner for my age. A Government needs to do something about that.
It makes no logical sense to apply the triple lock this year – that’s obvious and so we must scrabble around for a fresh angle on the subject. I think I have one.
In almost every conceivable way it’s better to be young than old. I won’t list all the ways – not in the mood – and I don’t need to. Not expecting an argument on the point.
Why is this relevant to the thread topic of pensions? It’s relevant because the core issue is equity between the generations. What we usually hear is that the young are subsidizing the old. Which is true. They do. But think of it a different way. The young have copious amounts of something very precious – time. Time is the most precious commodity on the planet since it’s needed for literally everything and is strictly limited in supply, extra amounts cannot under any circumstances be manufactured.
This isn't an airy fairy intangible asset it has hard monetary value. Eg, the average 61 year old would be willing to pay approx 50% (maybe more) of their net worth in order to become an average 21 year old. That’s just by way of illustration, some would pay less, some more, and in general the older you are the more you’d be willing to cough up. Let’s not quibble on the detail. The point I’m making is that when you bring in this metric – which is both genuine and material - young people start to look much £££ wealthier and old people much £££ poorer. Once in this frame of mind the objection to one year’s triple lock anomaly seems petty.
Strong contender for WAOTY that one! (Weirdest argument of the year).
Well I must be weird then because it came naturally! Wasn't straining particularly. The trick is to recognize time as an asset with monetary value. Once you do this, the wealth profile across the generations looks radically different, the young far less hard done by, the old far less cossetted.
I don't think anyone is stupid for voting anyway they want - it's one of my biggest annoyances with the Labour Party at the moment, that people that vote Tory must be racist, thick etc - but I do think there is an idea around that young people are stupid and don't do any work
My main problem with malc's argument is that he is in effect arguing older people are more worthy because they've worked longer. Now, different groups will have more or less needs than others, we put more money into those areas and toward those groups of course, but everything still needs to be considered in terms of societal benefit, not whether it would be nice for that specific group.
So is retraining the triple lock good for them and makes sense for society as a whole, not that they've worked hard so deserve a treat as compared to those shiftless young people.
I am not arguing they are more worthy , I am stating clearly that they paid for a pension and they should receive that pension. The government made legal commitments on that and have to keep to them. If they want to change it then they can change the legal agreements.
There’s no separate pension pot. A person is only entitled to the benefits they are entitled to at the time they claim them, not when they sign up. And legal commitments, what are you referring to here?
European nations including the Netherlands and France on Thursday announced an end to their evacuation flights out of #Kabul, the Dutch government describing it as a "painful moment" while France said it would wrap up evacuations on Friday
I don't think anyone is stupid for voting anyway they want - it's one of my biggest annoyances with the Labour Party at the moment, that people that vote Tory must be racist, thick etc - but I do think there is an idea around that young people are stupid and don't do any work
My main problem with malc's argument is that he is in effect arguing older people are more worthy because they've worked longer. Now, different groups will have more or less needs than others, we put more money into those areas and toward those groups of course, but everything still needs to be considered in terms of societal benefit, not whether it would be nice for that specific group.
So is retraining the triple lock good for them and makes sense for society as a whole, not that they've worked hard so deserve a treat as compared to those shiftless young people.
I am not arguing they are more worthy , I am stating clearly that they paid for a pension and they should receive that pension. The government made legal commitments on that and have to keep to them. If they want to change it then they can change the legal agreements.
However you are arguing they should not change the legal agreements (whatever that means in this context), which is fair enough, but assuming that others who wish to argue to change those same things are motivated by hostility and jealousy. All policies are fluid and may need to change according to circumstances - frankly it should happen a lot more than it does, but there is a political cost to it of course. There's nothing morally, legally or politically wrong about trying to change the rules when the situation changes.
I am not arguing they are more worthy , I am stating clearly that they paid for a pension and they should receive that pension. The government made legal commitments on that and have to keep to them. If they want to change it then they can change the legal agreements.
.. change those commitments and thus stuff future pensioners.
I don't think those calling for this change because they think it will help youngsters have entirely thought it through....
It's complete bollox. I know that, Mike Smithson knows that, but do the vast majority of cretins who draw pensions and vote Tory know that?
My experience of them is that they are beyond reason. Many of them read the Daily Mail, ffs.
This is a tough one for Johnson.
Funny how the people who call voters cretins themselves seem to miss this affects future pensioners as well as current pensioners.
I'm a pensioner, ffs!
Alright I was taking a swing. It's early morning and I have a headache, but I know from experience just how irrational such voters can be when it coes to this topic. Many seem to think being old gives them the right to be mollycoddled. You try explaining it to them.
One of the odder things is the number of reduced prices pensioners get.
Something which started when there were far fewer pensioners and when they tended to be far poorer.
But why should a pensioner now get lower priced entry to a sports match for example.
Another greedy envious git whining and whinging.
Have you ever surprised on the upside Malcolm ?
Yes. Sometimes.
Incredible the hatred of pensioners on here. I cannot understand why people would not be happy for pensioners getting a few bob extra after having worked all their lives. I never fail to be amazed at how many people are so greedy and envious of others rather than wishing other people well.
What about the pensioners who haven’t worked all their lives?
Well they get equivalent benefits or pension ( you get credited NI if unemployed etc ) as they should do under the system. Some think benefits are too generous some they are parsimonious. I just count myself lucky that I have worked all my life and never had to rely on benefits, I cannot imagine in most cases it is living the high life but have no experience of it.
And I don't have any hatred towards pensioners at all, I just think if you were to investigate, young people have had a rotten deal over the last many years and in general pensioners have not.
I am not sure what the solution to that is - but it is rich for older people who did not have student loans, ridiculous house prices to say that the solution is just to be a bit more frugal and eat fewer avocados.
You say that: but many pensioners also had a rotten deal over their youth - and perhaps a rose one. My dad was born in 1936, and his early years were spent through WWII, with a dad who was away at sea for a lot of the time, not knowing if he'd see his dad again.
There may have been a golden era to be young - the 1960s? - but even then, it was probably terrible for many youngsters.
And I don't have any hatred towards pensioners at all, I just think if you were to investigate, young people have had a rotten deal over the last many years and in general pensioners have not.
I am not sure what the solution to that is - but it is rich for older people who did not have student loans, ridiculous house prices to say that the solution is just to be a bit more frugal and eat fewer avocados.
You say that: but many pensioners also had a rotten deal over their youth - and perhaps a rose one. My dad was born in 1936, and his early years were spent through WWII, with a dad who was away at sea for a lot of the time, not knowing if he'd see his dad again.
There may have been a golden era to be young - the 1960s? - but even then, it was probably terrible for many youngsters.
Fair point, I take that there are periods on the other side which are a lot worse. The 60s or so era was what I was thinking.
It makes no logical sense to apply the triple lock this year – that’s obvious and so we must scrabble around for a fresh angle on the subject. I think I have one.
In almost every conceivable way it’s better to be young than old. I won’t list all the ways – not in the mood – and I don’t need to. Not expecting an argument on the point.
Why is this relevant to the thread topic of pensions? It’s relevant because the core issue is equity between the generations. What we usually hear is that the young are subsidizing the old. Which is true. They do. But think of it a different way. The young have copious amounts of something very precious – time. Time is the most precious commodity on the planet since it’s needed for literally everything and is strictly limited in supply, extra amounts cannot under any circumstances be manufactured.
This isn't an airy fairy intangible asset it has hard monetary value. Eg, the average 61 year old would be willing to pay approx 50% (maybe more) of their net worth in order to become an average 21 year old. That’s just by way of illustration, some would pay less, some more, and in general the older you are the more you’d be willing to cough up. Let’s not quibble on the detail. The point I’m making is that when you bring in this metric – which is both genuine and material - young people start to look much £££ wealthier and old people much £££ poorer. Once in this frame of mind the objection to one year’s triple lock anomaly seems petty.
Strong contender for WAOTY that one! (Weirdest argument of the year).
Well I must be weird then because it came naturally! Wasn't straining particularly. The trick is to recognize time as an asset with monetary value. Once you do this, the wealth profile across the generations looks radically different, the young far less hard done by, the old far less cossetted.
I cannot believe I am continuing this, but I think for it to be valid the following would need to apply:
61 year olds did not get the experience of being 21, otherwise they are eating cake and having it We had the ability to make 61 year olds 21 (Peter Stringfellow shows what happens when we try).
Comments
Health officials say people will be able to grab a jab as easily as a beer or a burger - but stress those under the influence of alcohol or drugs will not be able to get vaccinated.
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Wouldn't it have been better to "encourage" those going to get jabbed before they even get there?
It would be interesting to know conversion.50 to 100 of England batsman versus other teams.
They'll be at -240,000,000% before you know it.
The problem, I suspect, is if people want to condemn the UK being so low you end up with a situation where the UK is above NZ, and I'm not sure those who want to condemn will want to suggest Boris and co are doing better than them.
Since 'lockdown severity' is one of the measures these rankings will therefore surely be highly volatile, so I'm not sure how useful it can be in tracking Covid 'reslience'. Tracking current levels of disruption perhaps, but not resilience or assessing the response overall.
The big problem we (the nation) face is that Lab atm seem so goddamn useless with far too many horror show throwbacks (as @Nigel_Foremain noted yesterday) for many previous Cons voters to support them.
So right now, I can't see beyond another Cons govt, no matter how or how much they level up.
Still think the goverment will win the next election with a reduced majority (1992 and 2005 all over again) but that will be it for this particular run for the Tories.
Labour back in government at the end of the decade.
Natiq Malikzada
@natiqmalikzada
·17h
This is not #Kabulairport, this is Spin Boldak border where thousands of people wants to flee Afghanistan to Pakistan. The situation here is far worse than the situation at #KabulAirport but because there are no foreign forces here, it has not been covered by the media.
https://twitter.com/natiqmalikzada/status/1430575665925935107
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1430843715598254084?s=20
"I'm giving them nowt, why should you get owt?"
They are the ones who will inherit the shattered wreck of the conservative party when he is done with it. He will be swanning off around the world earning millions from talks etc.
Johnson will go when he wants to go. On the other hand, his need for money and his petulance when people are mean to him might mean that happens more quickly than for a normal PM.
And right now, we top the medals table!
It makes no logical sense to apply the triple lock this year – that’s obvious and so we must scrabble around for a fresh angle on the subject. I think I have one.
In almost every conceivable way it’s better to be young than old. I won’t list all the ways – not in the mood – and I don’t need to. Not expecting an argument on the point.
Why is this relevant to the thread topic of pensions? It’s relevant because the core issue is equity between the generations. What we usually hear is that the young are subsidizing the old. Which is true. They do. But think of it a different way. The young have copious amounts of something very precious – time. Time is the most precious commodity on the planet since it’s needed for literally everything and is strictly limited in supply, extra amounts cannot under any circumstances be manufactured.
This isn't an airy fairy intangible asset it has hard monetary value. Eg, the average 61 year old would be willing to pay approx 50% (maybe more) of their net worth in order to become an average 21 year old. That’s just by way of illustration, some would pay less, some more, and in general the older you are the more you’d be willing to cough up. Let’s not quibble on the detail. The point I’m making is that when you bring in this metric – which is both genuine and material - young people start to look much £££ wealthier and old people much £££ poorer. Once in this frame of mind the objection to one year’s triple lock anomaly seems petty.
Not "lucky" in the sense of pure chance; the pilot appears to have done a very good job under extreme pressure.
It's not a question of whether people deserve specific things after working their whole lives, people deserve a lot of things they don't get - care workers and better pay spring to mind - but it is a question of whether the existing situation is reasonable and affordable for society as a whole in a particular context, and whether proposals to benefit or in this case disadvantage pensions are reasonable or not.
Many will think it is not, but treating proposals to do so automatically as unfair because people have worked all their lives, or that it is driven by hatred, is as silly as when NHS veneration prevents consideration of potentially sensible ideas.
Pensioners do not have a god given right to an 8% or whatever rise from the triple lock because they have worked all their lives. At what point would it be unreasonable to not just 'wish people well'? The lock did not always exist so would be outrageous to return to a policy where it did not?
Some may say so, we've seen the argument the state pension in the UK is too low, but whether it is right or wrong I find it unconvincing that a political policy is being proffered as some inalienable right that people should just wish people well over. I think that could be extended into a great many areas.
Today’s LibDem annual report for 2020, published this morning by the Electoral Commission, does not make for happy reading. At the very end of the 25-page audit, the party reveals that in one year their membership collapsed from 126,724, to 98,247 – a fall of 22.5%.
https://order-order.com/2021/08/26/libdem-membership-plummets/
I don't think anyone is 'stupid' for voting for any of the mainstream parties: in fact, virtually any party. They can have reasons for doing so that I think are stupid, though. But I might well be stupid in thinking that their reasons are stupid ...
That's clearly unfair.
And as for that lady with the big necklaces who keeps saying that he's doing things wrong. She's meant to be supporting him. What's Boris ever done to her?
"I don't think that all of Labour's plans are bad, I would like the railways to be publicly owned"
"You young people, you don't remember the 70s, with all those strikes, in a few years you'll realise how stupid you were to think these things, you'll grow up and you'll vote Tory"
I'm paraphrasing but that is how it went, "how stupid you were" was definitely in there. Sadly I can't just cut off this individual as they're a family friend
Unless you've got airspeed or altitude you are more fucked than a pensioner expecting 8% when this occurs. The Mi-17-1V like all Hip variants is a big old barge that needs a firm hand and nerves to steel to recover from uncommanded yaw.
Harder, longer lockdowns. Longer suspension of education and more interruptions. More restrictions on travel, association, assembly, exercise, and everything else that young people love than we actually had.
Now ask yourself CHB, as a young person, are you stupid for supporting a party that championed that agenda?
I suspect that he wasn’t trying to land, but was forced into a field by the failure. The previous minute of footage would be useful.
I am not sure what the solution to that is - but it is rich for older people who did not have student loans, ridiculous house prices to say that the solution is just to be a bit more frugal and eat fewer avocados.
{Insert joke about the PM's girlfriends here}.
But within all that noise, there is a signal that the Conservatives would be foolish to ignore.
So is retraining the triple lock good for them and makes sense for society as a whole, not that they've worked hard so deserve a treat as compared to those shiftless young people.
https://twitter.com/BrianSpanner1/status/1430845601005162501?s=20
Office furniture (£360k) and computer equipment (£195k) mainly.....
PS: the office holds about 10 people, must be gold plated computers and some fancy furniture.
Old people do.
https://twitter.com/laurnorman/status/1430846640257110018
Airspeed and altitude, two of a pilot’s three best friends, no matter what he’s flying. Fuel is the other one, unless he’s on fire!
I am fortunate enough to be in the position to be buying a house due to inherited money, if I didn't have that I would be utterly screwed and I am a higher earner for my age. A Government needs to do something about that.
compared to 73% who voted conservative
Could this explain why Labour is stuck?
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1430847238679326723?s=20
And....
NEW: Boris Johnson says that the ‘overwhelming majority’ of those who are eligible to come to the UK have now been evacuated from Afghanistan
Via @thetimes
https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1430852355659075588?s=20
I don't think those calling for this change because they think it will help youngsters have entirely thought it through....
There may have been a golden era to be young - the 1960s? - but even then, it was probably terrible for many youngsters.
Indeed I would retain the £20 and reduce the triple lock
And I am pleased a few conservative mps are not fighting for the £20 UC to be made permanent
And I am a pensioner so I am affected
61 year olds did not get the experience of being 21, otherwise they are eating cake and having it
We had the ability to make 61 year olds 21 (Peter Stringfellow shows what happens when we try).