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Axing the triple lock could be another #dementia tax debacle – politicalbetting.com

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  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    edited August 2021
    isam said:
    Too thick to even check google reverse image search.....even if you don't care yourself, in this day and age somebody is going to do exactly that.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    HYUFD said:

    Reports indicate that there were dozens of #British citizens at the entrance where the blast occurred at #Kabul airport.

    https://twitter.com/BarzanSadiq/status/1430892251496861708

    Really, really awful.

    And dare I say it - totally on Biden
    There has never been a weaker and more uncaring administration in terms of foreign policy in the White House than this one in my lifetime.

    Trump may have been an idiot at times but he was not weak like Biden-Harris are.

    You have to go back to Carter to find a President as weak as this one but at least Carter had a heart and some compassion
    Actually we have no idea what the Trump withdrawal would have been like as he was thankfully ejected from office before this took place. He "negotiated" the exit though. But based on the endless stories of chaos, confusion, sackings and crap thinking in WH that emerged during his four year stint I reckon this would have been a far bigger clusterfuck under Trump.
    Trump wanted out by May this year if i remember correctly
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,632
    edited August 2021
    Anyhoo.

    If The Ashes do take place this winter (or next winter) then BT have retained the rights.

    Right at the bottom.

    “The Caribbean Premier League will kick off an exciting period for cricket lovers on BT Sport, as we exclusively broadcast the 2021/22 men’s and women’s Ashes in addition to England’s tour of the West Indies in early 2022.”

    https://www.bt.com/sport/cricket/news/bt-sport-to-show-caribbean-premier-league
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,564
    DavidL said:

    England lead up to 200 with 8 wickets still in hand. Seriously impressive scoring rate now too. Maybe looking for a 350 run lead by the end of the day?

    Tickets sold for 5 days - there will be pressure to bat through Saturday even if they are on a thousand for six......
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    edited August 2021

    Anyhoo.

    If The Ashes do take place this winter (or next winter) then BT have retained the rights.

    https://www.bt.com/sport/cricket/news/bt-sport-to-show-caribbean-premier-league

    Sigh.....BT cricket coverage is awful, be more Vaughan and Swann...
  • How does Biden react to his forces being attacked and injured
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    isam said:

    isam said:

    isam said:

    If you have a sore throat, headache, runny nose and fever but have tested negative twice in two days on LFT, what are the chances you’ve got Covid?

    Pretty low. There are more colds than covid, not sure by what multiple. LFT accuracy seems to be above 80% for symptomatic cases, some reports say higher still.

    Somewhere in the 1-5% range seems plausible, probably lower end.

    isam said:

    If you have a sore throat, headache, runny nose and fever but have tested negative twice in two days on LFT, what are the chances you’ve got Covid?

    when i got symptoms I took a LFT that showed negative, but I only did one. My wife's showed positive so we both took proper tests and we were both positive.

    could just be some other virus but if it's easy to book/get a proper test I would. (if you're feeling reckless/selfish do your shopping first).

    isam said:

    If you have a sore throat, headache, runny nose and fever but have tested negative twice in two days on LFT, what are the chances you’ve got Covid?

    If you have, just go and get a PCR done. Just tell porkies on the booking form about your symptoms.
    Thanks. It’s not me but my girlfriend … my 32 weeks pregnant, unvaccinated girlfriend who went to a family (outdoor) get together Saturday... one of the guests has tested positive, and now she feels rough. Could just be run down/pregnancy cold though, hopefully

    We have a PCR test here, so she is going to do that later
    I'd make sure she gets on with it PDQ if I were you. 32 weeks isn't a good stage for the baby, either.
    If she has got it, what do we do? Why do you say that re 32 weeks?
    First of all, you don't panic.
    It'll probably be all right, BUT I would recommend contacting the midwife at this stage since if she needs extra care the midwife ought to be able to point the two of you towards the best place for her.

    When I was concerned with these things there were more problems with pregnancies at or around 32 weeks than either earlier or later. Smaller babies were routinely delivered normally and developed properly; our own elder son, nearly 60 years ago was born at 28 weeks and is perfectly normal.
    That is not saying that she WILL have problems; I'm suggesting there's an increased chance.

    Last of all, don't panic; deep, deep breaths and as I said try and contact the midwife. PDQ.
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    edited August 2021

    It's not quite as simple as property prices being a sure winner. Property is certainly not a one-way bet, as many people found out in the 1990s. Nor are the returns necessarily particularly good; over the last thirty years, UK shares have generally beaten UK property, although a lot depends on your assumptions: property in which area, how much leverage, cost of borrowing etc. There's a reasonable summary here, albeit slightly out of date:

    https://www.woodruff-fp.co.uk/property-vs-investment-portfolios/

    That appears on first sight to be comparing purchasing shares and receiving dividends with purchasing property and not receiving rent?
    It's not a simple comparison at all. Obviously if you live in the house, there's no rental income and no CGT. If you rent out then you've got rental income but you also end up with a potentially whopping CGT liability, which you can't shelter in an ISA as you can with shares. Then for buy-to-let there are the complications of void periods, legal fees, unpaid rent, unexpected repair costs, not to mention the sheer hassle. Property is of course much less liquid (sometimes VERY much less liquid), but the returns are generally smoother. Property lets you gear up, which is great when things are going well, but absolutely disastrous when things go badly.


    Sorry, the investment comparison doesnt work unless you include rents, or exclude dividends (even then rental yields have generally been much higher than dividend yields).

    If its where you live, then you are saving paying rent, so benefit by the same rental yield.
    Obviously for shares you need to include dividends, that's investing page 1. And yes, of course, for buy-to-let you need to include rental income less expenses. I'm not giving you an answer as to which is the better investment - it all depends on assumptions and luck, of course - just pointing out that the common view that buy-to-let is free money ain't necessarily so.

    On your last point, arguably so, depending on the circumstances.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    HYUFD said:

    Reports indicate that there were dozens of #British citizens at the entrance where the blast occurred at #Kabul airport.

    https://twitter.com/BarzanSadiq/status/1430892251496861708

    Really, really awful.

    And dare I say it - totally on Biden
    There has never been a weaker and more uncaring administration in terms of foreign policy in the White House than this one in my lifetime.

    Trump may have been an idiot at times but he was not weak like Biden-Harris are.

    You have to go back to Carter to find a President as weak as this one but at least Carter had a heart and some compassion
    Actually we have no idea what the Trump withdrawal would have been like as he was thankfully ejected from office before this took place. He "negotiated" the exit though. But based on the endless stories of chaos, confusion, sackings and crap thinking in WH that emerged during his four year stint I reckon this would have been a far bigger clusterfuck under Trump.
    Biden assured us a month ago that what is happening now was well nigh impossible.
    Trump's advisor Rudy would be telling him to just announce to the Taliban that they lost.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited August 2021

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the US public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.

    We’re on our own.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,564

    Anyhoo.

    If The Ashes do take place this winter (or next winter) then BT have retained the rights.

    Right at the bottom.

    “The Caribbean Premier League will kick off an exciting period for cricket lovers on BT Sport, as we exclusively broadcast the 2021/22 men’s and women’s Ashes in addition to England’s tour of the West Indies in early 2022.”

    https://www.bt.com/sport/cricket/news/bt-sport-to-show-caribbean-premier-league

    Just not seeing The Ashes happening.
  • TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reports indicate that there were dozens of #British citizens at the entrance where the blast occurred at #Kabul airport.

    https://twitter.com/BarzanSadiq/status/1430892251496861708

    Really, really awful.

    And dare I say it - totally on Biden
    There has never been a weaker and more uncaring administration in terms of foreign policy in the White House than this one in my lifetime.

    Trump may have been an idiot at times but he was not weak like Biden-Harris are.

    You have to go back to Carter to find a President as weak as this one but at least Carter had a heart and some compassion
    Actually we have no idea what the Trump withdrawal would have been like as he was thankfully ejected from office before this took place. He "negotiated" the exit though. But based on the endless stories of chaos, confusion, sackings and crap thinking in WH that emerged during his four year stint I reckon this would have been a far bigger clusterfuck under Trump.
    Biden assured us a month ago that what is happening now was well nigh impossible.
    Trump's advisor Rudy would be telling him to just announce to the Taliban that they lost.
    I can imagine Trump saying the Taliban loves him, everybody says so.....
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    edited August 2021
    Commentator on Sky saying Biden is going to have to send in his troops into Kabul

    Not sure he will
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Morning all, on topic -

    It makes no logical sense to apply the triple lock this year – that’s obvious and so we must scrabble around for a fresh angle on the subject. I think I have one.

    In almost every conceivable way it’s better to be young than old. I won’t list all the ways – not in the mood – and I don’t need to. Not expecting an argument on the point.

    Why is this relevant to the thread topic of pensions? It’s relevant because the core issue is equity between the generations. What we usually hear is that the young are subsidizing the old. Which is true. They do. But think of it a different way. The young have copious amounts of something very precious – time. Time is the most precious commodity on the planet since it’s needed for literally everything and is strictly limited in supply, extra amounts cannot under any circumstances be manufactured.

    This isn't an airy fairy intangible asset it has hard monetary value. Eg, the average 61 year old would be willing to pay approx 50% (maybe more) of their net worth in order to become an average 21 year old. That’s just by way of illustration, some would pay less, some more, and in general the older you are the more you’d be willing to cough up. Let’s not quibble on the detail. The point I’m making is that when you bring in this metric – which is both genuine and material - young people start to look much £££ wealthier and old people much £££ poorer. Once in this frame of mind the objection to one year’s triple lock anomaly seems petty.

    Although I might negotiate hard I suspect I would give 100% of my wealth to be 21 again.
    Gosh, ok. I think you're an outlier there. But maybe not. Once the market is developed - with sufficient liquidity - we'll find out.

    Technical note: You'll need to find a willing counterparty. Either a single one, a 21 year old who will sell you the 44 years, you becoming 21, them 65, or multiples, eg you buy 10 years off a 25 year old, 20 off an 18 year old, and 14 off a 30 year old, you emerging as 21, them becoming 35, 38, 44 respectively.

    One can see it working well as an exchange rather like Betfair. One thing's for sure, it will change the calculus of the 'intergenerational unfairness' debate quite markedly.
    I'm obviously completely misunderstanding kinabalu. I thought you were offering me the ability to be 21 again. Who wouldn't swap that for all their wealth. My understanding though is the technology does exist yet. If you know otherwise please let me have the contact details and I will be on the phone straight away.
    Ah, no, this is low tech and grounded in reality rather than some fanciful Sci/Fi nonsense. So you can buy the time, yes, but only off a willing seller. Because time can't be created. It's a zero sum game.

    But I will definitely let you know if this changes. You're top of the list.
    Thank you for putting me top of the list - appreciated.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    TimT said:

    DavidL said:

    England lead up to 200 with 8 wickets still in hand. Seriously impressive scoring rate now too. Maybe looking for a 350 run lead by the end of the day?

    Burns the lowest scorer at 61. Such a loser!
    350 lead 45-60 minutes before the end of play.
    And declare.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    edited August 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    The focus seems to be on the Triple Lock, why not a refund or a rebate for students who have been taught from home for the last year+? Why are they ignored?

    One reason is they do not vote.

    Old people do.
    They do vote, just not in large enough quantities - but I very much agree with the basis of your point.
    And I agree with the basis of yours. Young people have been treated very badly in this pandemic and it is time it stopped. High time.
    Young people have been treated badly for the last twenty+ years, it did not start with COVID.

    I am fortunate enough to be in the position to be buying a house due to inherited money, if I didn't have that I would be utterly screwed and I am a higher earner for my age. A Government needs to do something about that.
    I had this conversation with a 29 year old at work a few months back. You could afford property, we can't.

    Its true of course, but there is further point to make. When I bought all those years ago, it was a joint effort with my missus and that was generally the way it was done.

    Property is still accessible if two of you pitch in right? trouble is, many young people don't seem to want the lifetime commitments of previous generations.

    Their lifestyle is their right and I support their right to choose it, but there are always going to be trade-offs.
    I am buying with somebody else, if I was alone despite the money I had inherited, I would still be screwed.
    I have to ask. What property are you trying to buy that two high earners would be screwed if it weren’t for inherited money?
    Welcome to London
    Is it all so prohibitively expensive that it wouldn’t be possible just with normal savings, without relying on inheritance?
    Yes.

    The 2 bed terrace in wandsworth i bought for 140k in 1992 and sold for 145 in 1994 now wants 1.1m.
    Property down here has been a magic money tree for ages. Once on the ladder all a person had to do was, each time they move, don't sell, keep the old one and rent out, do this a few times over say 30 years, and barring accidents they're rich. Periodically remortgage the older items in the portfolio to generate cash (if required) for deposits on later purchases. I know a bloke (used to work with him) who did this, starting at age 25 or so. No big tycoon type activity, just this slow, no drama, largely administrative plod as described. He had a good City career but he made more from this. No real added value, of course, (and same goes for the City career) but much personal wealth garnered. This, I think, tells us something about how our economy works.
    Yes, I wish I'd done that. But in retrospect, at no stage did I think house prices were going to go on rising, and - though I was wrong - even in retrospect I don't think my conclusion was obviously misplaced.

    I still don't understand how even with ultra-low interest rates, even with the demand of 20 years population growth, houses are as expensive as they are. I'd have thought there's be a point at which they'd outstrip people's ability to own them. But ultimately it turns out there's a lot more money sloshing around in the country than I'd expected.
    Yes, this chap saw the structural big picture, which is no mean feat at 25. And he only had a deposit for one modest purchase to start with. So from this viewpoint, he's deserving of the wealth accrual, but intuitively there's something wrong. It's a case of 'to he who hath, much shall be given, and he who hath not can go whistle'.
    And rising house prices have been such a blatant "something for nothing" that there's clearly someone else who is getting nothing for something.

    Just imagine if all that capital and thinking had gone into something actually productive.
    Is what I'm driving at. The economy is not a simple, zero sum game, it's big and complex with many facets to it; nevertheless if some people are being remunerated way beyond their genuine contribution, and this is happening on a grand scale, it follows that many many others are being screwed. This is largely the essence of the economy we have. And you can gross up and substitute 'countries' for 'people' and it still holds. This to me is the fundamental meaning 'of living beyond one's means'. It's not about overdrafts and trade deficits, it's people and countries enjoying a higher standard of living than their contribution merits. So, the UK (indeed the West in general) is living beyond its means, cf the world as a whole, and within the UK most of its affluent citizens are living beyond their means, cf the UK population as a whole. You don't need to be able to trace every distinct cause and effect to know that this is true.
  • Two separate explosions according to Sky

    18.56 in Kabul
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,564
    Bottled water at Tesco today.

    I better not say where, in case it starts a stampede.....
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reports indicate that there were dozens of #British citizens at the entrance where the blast occurred at #Kabul airport.

    https://twitter.com/BarzanSadiq/status/1430892251496861708

    Really, really awful.

    And dare I say it - totally on Biden
    There has never been a weaker and more uncaring administration in terms of foreign policy in the White House than this one in my lifetime.

    Trump may have been an idiot at times but he was not weak like Biden-Harris are.

    You have to go back to Carter to find a President as weak as this one but at least Carter had a heart and some compassion
    Actually we have no idea what the Trump withdrawal would have been like as he was thankfully ejected from office before this took place. He "negotiated" the exit though. But based on the endless stories of chaos, confusion, sackings and crap thinking in WH that emerged during his four year stint I reckon this would have been a far bigger clusterfuck under Trump.
    Biden assured us a month ago that what is happening now was well nigh impossible.
    Trump's advisor Rudy would be telling him to just announce to the Taliban that they lost.
    I can imagine Trump saying the Taliban loves him, everybody says so.....
    Well, he'd be right on that.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    I agree with you and Ping in terms of “being on our own”

    But this is really the equivalent of America shooting itself in the face. I don’t know how it recovers from here, or is trusted in the future
  • 13 killed including children

    Dreadful
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028

    Two separate explosions according to Sky

    18.56 in Kabul

    And the worry is - now we know there aren’t terrorists in Kabul itself - it gets worse over night
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    Bottled water at Tesco today.

    I better not say where, in case it starts a stampede.....
    or a flood.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    edited August 2021
    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    Nothing in that post gives me any confidence whatsoever.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,821

    Anyhoo.

    If The Ashes do take place this winter (or next winter) then BT have retained the rights.

    Right at the bottom.

    “The Caribbean Premier League will kick off an exciting period for cricket lovers on BT Sport, as we exclusively broadcast the 2021/22 men’s and women’s Ashes in addition to England’s tour of the West Indies in early 2022.”

    https://www.bt.com/sport/cricket/news/bt-sport-to-show-caribbean-premier-league

    Just not seeing The Ashes happening.
    Agreed. The vaccination efforts down under just haven't been good enough.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
  • HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    Utter tosh

    The evacuation is under the direction of the US
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377

    Bottled water at Tesco today.

    I better not say where, in case it starts a stampede.....
    Hidden behind the flaked parmesan, I'd guess.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    Utter tosh

    The evacuation is under the direction of the US
    The US troops have been confined to the airport, it is UK and French troops who have been in Kabul itself helping find refugees
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    Reports indicate that there were dozens of #British citizens at the entrance where the blast occurred at #Kabul airport.

    https://twitter.com/BarzanSadiq/status/1430892251496861708

    Really, really awful.

    And dare I say it - totally on Biden
    There has never been a weaker and more uncaring administration in terms of foreign policy in the White House than this one in my lifetime.

    Trump may have been an idiot at times but he was not weak like Biden-Harris are.

    You have to go back to Carter to find a President as weak as this one but at least Carter had a heart and some compassion
    Actually we have no idea what the Trump withdrawal would have been like as he was thankfully ejected from office before this took place. He "negotiated" the exit though. But based on the endless stories of chaos, confusion, sackings and crap thinking in WH that emerged during his four year stint I reckon this would have been a far bigger clusterfuck under Trump.
    Biden assured us a month ago that what is happening now was well nigh impossible.
    Trump's advisor Rudy would be telling him to just announce to the Taliban that they lost.
    Yeah but luckily now the adults are back in the room, according to CNN. Now is the time for sensible, sober, prudent leadership, says MSNBC.

    Yeah....
  • BFM is reporting Michel Barnier will announce his presidential bid this evening at 8 p.m. French time. Barnier will run for the centre-right Republicans party.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

  • HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    So who is the leader in that scenario
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    So who is the leader in that scenario
    I would hope it would be Merkel.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    Two explosions confirmed.
  • HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    So who is the leader in that scenario
    I would hope it would be Merkel.
    She is yesterday's news to be honest
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited August 2021

    TimT said:

    DavidL said:

    England lead up to 200 with 8 wickets still in hand. Seriously impressive scoring rate now too. Maybe looking for a 350 run lead by the end of the day?

    Burns the lowest scorer at 61. Such a loser!
    350 lead 45-60 minutes before the end of play.
    And declare.
    Nope. Make it 450 plus or even 500 and have two days to get them out ..the scoreboard will cause pressure on its own...
  • Reporting Taliban guards also injured
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    Not sure how staying longer (in terms of days or weeks) would have stopped such an attack or made it less likely. It would surely be more likely.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Bottled water at Tesco today.

    I better not say where, in case it starts a stampede.....
    Hidden behind the flaked parmesan, I'd guess.
    I have a supermarket delivery within the hour.

    I shall report back.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    So who is the leader in that scenario
    I would hope it would be Merkel.
    She is yesterday's news to be honest
    So out of Macron, Boris, Trudeau & Conte ........

    QTWTAIN applies, I think.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    So who is the leader in that scenario
    Macron, Merkel is on her way out, Boris is probably second but Macron will effectively become de facto EU leader once Merkel goes next month too
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094

    How does Biden react to his forces being attacked and injured

    He'll say its evidence of the need to get the heck out. Views on it being right or not are set, including whether to seek to delay.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,821

    TimT said:

    DavidL said:

    England lead up to 200 with 8 wickets still in hand. Seriously impressive scoring rate now too. Maybe looking for a 350 run lead by the end of the day?

    Burns the lowest scorer at 61. Such a loser!
    350 lead 45-60 minutes before the end of play.
    And declare.
    Nope. Make it 450 plus or even 500 and have two days to get them out ..the scoreboard will cause pressure on its own...
    Agreed. There is absolutely no need to rush this. Its obviously a very good batting wicket and England will want aggressive fields.
  • HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    So who is the leader in that scenario
    I would hope it would be Merkel.
    She is yesterday's news to be honest
    So out of Macron, Boris, Trudeau & Conte ........

    QTWTAIN applies, I think.
    In truth a very troubling list of leaders
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    Apparently, if we'd stayed in the European Union, Biden would have agreed to stay, leading remainers argue. Its because we've lost our place in the world this is all happening.
    Leavers creating imaginary comments and arguments from remainers to then argue against the imaginary comments is always box office! BDS
  • pingping Posts: 3,805

    Reporting Taliban guards also injured

    I think observers have been underestimating the likelihood of a civil war.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    TimT said:

    DavidL said:

    England lead up to 200 with 8 wickets still in hand. Seriously impressive scoring rate now too. Maybe looking for a 350 run lead by the end of the day?

    Burns the lowest scorer at 61. Such a loser!
    350 lead 45-60 minutes before the end of play.
    And declare.
    Nope. Make it 450 plus or even 500 and have two days to get them out ..the scoreboard will cause pressure on its osn...
    I was thinking of letting a fired up and refreshed Anderson, plus the others, at tired and demoralised players who have been in the field all day.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094

    This really does read like a sick joke.

    Animal rights activists have credited Carrie Johnson after a former marine was given permission to fly hundreds of dogs and cats out of Kabul.

    Campaigners claimed that Boris Johnson had ordered Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, to rescue the stranded animals after coming under pressure from his wife.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/carrie-johnson-was-key-to-rescue-of-200-cats-and-dogs-from-kabul-6lgqn3gzz

    You'd assume the whole thing to be a parody story. I don't know the full situation, but I'd not have assumed the question even being asked would be taken seriously.
  • Bottled water at Tesco today.

    I better not say where, in case it starts a stampede.....
    Hidden behind the flaked parmesan, I'd guess.
    I have a supermarket delivery within the hour.

    I shall report back.
    Mine was complete yet again this morning
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    So who is the leader in that scenario
    There isn't one. The West now does not have a leader. Any leader. It has a sad old man slowly losing his limited faculties and a bunch of powerful apologists covering up for his unfitness for his role.

    If you had designed a Western Alliance decapitation strategy, you could hardly have done it better.
  • Oh dear....last ball before tea.....
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    England set up so that each batsman will score more than the preceding batsman in the order. Anderson to get a double ton?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2021

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    Not sure how staying longer (in terms of days or weeks) would have stopped such an attack or made it less likely. It would surely be more likely.
    It is the whole withdrawal which has abandoned Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda and IS.

    Biden made it even worse by withdrawing most of the military before all the civilians were evacuated and not letting US troops move beyond the airport, an ideal opportunity for terrorists to regroup
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    So who is the leader in that scenario
    Macron, Merkel is on her way out, Boris is probably second but Macron will effectively become de facto EU leader once Merkel goes next month too
    There is no Western leader. The West has been decapitated. Or decapitated itself.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431
    Malan caught behind. 298-3
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,821

    Oh dear....last ball before tea.....

    Excellent review by Kohli.
  • kle4 said:

    This really does read like a sick joke.

    Animal rights activists have credited Carrie Johnson after a former marine was given permission to fly hundreds of dogs and cats out of Kabul.

    Campaigners claimed that Boris Johnson had ordered Ben Wallace, the defence secretary, to rescue the stranded animals after coming under pressure from his wife.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/carrie-johnson-was-key-to-rescue-of-200-cats-and-dogs-from-kabul-6lgqn3gzz

    You'd assume the whole thing to be a parody story. I don't know the full situation, but I'd not have assumed the question even being asked would be taken seriously.
    Boris has denied it
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2021

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    So who is the leader in that scenario
    Macron, Merkel is on her way out, Boris is probably second but Macron will effectively become de facto EU leader once Merkel goes next month too
    There is no Western leader. The West has been decapitated. Or decapitated itself.
    Just because there is an absence of western leadership in the White House does not mean there is no western leadership elsewhere.

    Macron may well end up the most influential French President since De Gaulle internationally.

    De Gaulle of course was quite happy to go his own way without US direction
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    TimT said:

    DavidL said:

    England lead up to 200 with 8 wickets still in hand. Seriously impressive scoring rate now too. Maybe looking for a 350 run lead by the end of the day?

    Burns the lowest scorer at 61. Such a loser!
    350 lead 45-60 minutes before the end of play.
    And declare.
    Nope. Make it 450 plus or even 500 and have two days to get them out ..the scoreboard will cause pressure on its osn...
    I was thinking of letting a fired up and refreshed Anderson, plus the others, at tired and demoralised players who have been in the field all day.
    Same applies end day 3
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    So who is the leader in that scenario
    Macron, Merkel is on her way out, Boris is probably second but Macron will effectively become de facto EU leader once Merkel goes next month too
    What a mess
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    edited August 2021

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    Apparently, if we'd stayed in the European Union, Biden would have agreed to stay, leading remainers argue. Its because we've lost our place in the world this is all happening.
    Leavers creating imaginary comments and arguments from remainers to then argue against the imaginary comments is always box office! BDS
    Not a crime unique to leavers, as any discussion of immigration would show with lots of 'When X says X they really mean Y'.

    It's one of those political not partisan behaviours that no one can get too much on their high horse about. No one has a monopoly on strawmanning.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    Not sure how staying longer (in terms of days or weeks) would have stopped such an attack or made it less likely. It would surely be more likely.
    It is the whole withdrawal which has abandoned Afghanistan back to the Taliban and Al Qaeda and IS.

    Biden made it even worse by withdrawing most of the military before all the civilians were evacuated and not letting US troops move beyond the airport, an ideal opportunity for terrorists to regroup
    Sure, there are different long term paths with different outcomes, but if the West tried staying on a little bit longer, it would have made a terrorist attack around the airport more likely, not less likely, as more time for the terrorists to prepare.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    🚨FOCUS GROUP🚨

    Latest @TimesRadio focus group with @jamesjohnson252 @KekstCNC is in the Blue Wall, to find out what 2019 Tory voters think now.

    Oh and we’re in Esher & Walton…Dominic Raab’s seat, where the Lib Dems came close last time.

    LISTEN: Times Radio | 10am Friday
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    TimT said:

    DavidL said:

    England lead up to 200 with 8 wickets still in hand. Seriously impressive scoring rate now too. Maybe looking for a 350 run lead by the end of the day?

    Burns the lowest scorer at 61. Such a loser!
    350 lead 45-60 minutes before the end of play.
    And declare.
    Nope. Make it 450 plus or even 500 and have two days to get them out ..the scoreboard will cause pressure on its osn...
    I was thinking of letting a fired up and refreshed Anderson, plus the others, at tired and demoralised players who have been in the field all day.
    Same applies end day 3
    True; teatime day 3 with a massive lead.......
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    So who is the leader in that scenario
    Macron, Merkel is on her way out, Boris is probably second but Macron will effectively become de facto EU leader once Merkel goes next month too
    France has announced it is ending its airlift tomorrow afternoon. Macron won't want to be leading anything after that will he?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094

    BFM is reporting Michel Barnier will announce his presidential bid this evening at 8 p.m. French time. Barnier will run for the centre-right Republicans party.

    The funniest outcome is Macron doesn't even get in the top two.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    Apparently, if we'd stayed in the European Union, Biden would have agreed to stay, leading remainers argue. Its because we've lost our place in the world this is all happening.
    Leavers creating imaginary comments and arguments from remainers to then argue against the imaginary comments is always box office! BDS
    Not a crime unique to leavers, as any discussion of immigration would show with lots of 'When X says X they really mean Y'.

    It's one of those political not partisan behaviours that no one can get too much on their high horse about. No one has a monopoly on strawmanning.
    It is a completely fictitious quote, leading remainers have not argued this, even "apparently". Save that for twitter or tiktok or whatever, not here.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2021

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    So who is the leader in that scenario
    Macron, Merkel is on her way out, Boris is probably second but Macron will effectively become de facto EU leader once Merkel goes next month too
    France has announced it is ending its airlift tomorrow afternoon. Macron won't want to be leading anything after that will he?
    All western troops have to be out by next week based on the deadline Biden did not shift.

    Macron has sent troops to much of Africa to fight IS and AQ militants there
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Morning all, on topic -

    It makes no logical sense to apply the triple lock this year – that’s obvious and so we must scrabble around for a fresh angle on the subject. I think I have one.

    In almost every conceivable way it’s better to be young than old. I won’t list all the ways – not in the mood – and I don’t need to. Not expecting an argument on the point.

    Why is this relevant to the thread topic of pensions? It’s relevant because the core issue is equity between the generations. What we usually hear is that the young are subsidizing the old. Which is true. They do. But think of it a different way. The young have copious amounts of something very precious – time. Time is the most precious commodity on the planet since it’s needed for literally everything and is strictly limited in supply, extra amounts cannot under any circumstances be manufactured.

    This isn't an airy fairy intangible asset it has hard monetary value. Eg, the average 61 year old would be willing to pay approx 50% (maybe more) of their net worth in order to become an average 21 year old. That’s just by way of illustration, some would pay less, some more, and in general the older you are the more you’d be willing to cough up. Let’s not quibble on the detail. The point I’m making is that when you bring in this metric – which is both genuine and material - young people start to look much £££ wealthier and old people much £££ poorer. Once in this frame of mind the objection to one year’s triple lock anomaly seems petty.

    Although I might negotiate hard I suspect I would give 100% of my wealth to be 21 again.
    Gosh, ok. I think you're an outlier there. But maybe not. Once the market is developed - with sufficient liquidity - we'll find out.

    Technical note: You'll need to find a willing counterparty. Either a single one, a 21 year old who will sell you the 44 years, you becoming 21, them 65, or multiples, eg you buy 10 years off a 25 year old, 20 off an 18 year old, and 14 off a 30 year old, you emerging as 21, them becoming 35, 38, 44 respectively.

    One can see it working well as an exchange rather like Betfair. One thing's for sure, it will change the calculus of the 'intergenerational unfairness' debate quite markedly.
    I'm obviously completely misunderstanding kinabalu. I thought you were offering me the ability to be 21 again. Who wouldn't swap that for all their wealth. My understanding though is the technology does exist yet. If you know otherwise please let me have the contact details and I will be on the phone straight away.
    Ah, no, this is low tech and grounded in reality rather than some fanciful Sci/Fi nonsense. So you can buy the time, yes, but only off a willing seller. Because time can't be created. It's a zero sum game.

    But I will definitely let you know if this changes. You're top of the list.
    You really want a young Tony Blair, Richard Branson and Rupert Murdock gurning around?

    The way you have constructed it they are buying extra years of life not time.

    So I’m sure they don’t have any wealth… it’s all in trusts…
  • Sky have excellent foreign reporters in Stuart Ramsay, Deborah Haynes and Sally Lockwood and are making the BBC look like dinosaurs

    And I do not watch Sky normally
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    So, ten overs in 20/20 mode, then put them in for a couple of hours this evening chasing 300?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094

    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimT said:

    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    To be a leader, you need followers ...
    Macron, Boris, Trudeau, Merkel, Conte all asked Biden to stay on a bit longer to complete the evacuation, he refused.

    Apparently, if we'd stayed in the European Union, Biden would have agreed to stay, leading remainers argue. Its because we've lost our place in the world this is all happening.
    Leavers creating imaginary comments and arguments from remainers to then argue against the imaginary comments is always box office! BDS
    Not a crime unique to leavers, as any discussion of immigration would show with lots of 'When X says X they really mean Y'.

    It's one of those political not partisan behaviours that no one can get too much on their high horse about. No one has a monopoly on strawmanning.
    It is a completely fictitious quote, leading remainers have not argued this, even "apparently". Save that for twitter or tiktok or whatever, not here.
    Again, hardly unique though. It's an extrapolation from the 'UK weakened in the world' arguments, and contrarian didn't quote someone even if the argument he presented was not correct even for 'leading remainers'.
  • Sky have excellent foreign reporters in Stuart Ramsay, Deborah Haynes and Sally Lockwood and are making the BBC look like dinosaurs

    And I do not watch Sky normally

    They still miss Tim Marshall, he was head and shoulders above all the rest.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    DavidL said:

    Anyhoo.

    If The Ashes do take place this winter (or next winter) then BT have retained the rights.

    Right at the bottom.

    “The Caribbean Premier League will kick off an exciting period for cricket lovers on BT Sport, as we exclusively broadcast the 2021/22 men’s and women’s Ashes in addition to England’s tour of the West Indies in early 2022.”

    https://www.bt.com/sport/cricket/news/bt-sport-to-show-caribbean-premier-league

    Just not seeing The Ashes happening.
    Agreed. The vaccination efforts down under just haven't been good enough.
    Given that Scott Morrisson has tolerated some of the most egregious of anti-vax, Covid is a hoax, and other such bollocks being spouted from his own backbenches
    * then it really is no surprise. Nor does he have much reason to moan about vaccination rates.

    * No elected Parliamentarian in the UK AFAIAA, gone anywhere close to the wingnuttery on display in Oz.
    And not just the odd remark either. Some Governing Party MP's have been nigh 24/7 in irrational propaganda that would embarass a Trumpite.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited August 2021

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting line in here: Taliban not bothered by the loss of Western aid because “They assume that any money that the west doesn’t give them will be replaced by China, Pakistan, Russia and Saudi Arabia.” Will be interesting to see if that's true.
    https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1430848001036197892

    Do the middle two have any to spare ?
    And if they think China gives money out without rather more strings than we do, they are more delusional than I thought.

    China's only strings will be that the Taliban does not mess with the new Chinese mines that will be dug. Easy for the Taliban and in return they will get squillions from dig and sell.
    That sounds pretty delusional to me, too.
    Afghanistan is one of the poorest nations in the world. But in 2010, US military officials and geologists revealed that the country, which lies at the crossroads of Central and South Asia, was sitting on mineral deposits worth nearly $1 trillion.

    Supplies of minerals such as iron, copper and gold are scattered across provinces. There are also rare earth minerals and, perhaps most importantly, what could be one of the world's biggest deposits of lithium — an essential but scarce component in rechargeable batteries and other technologies vital to tackling the climate crisis.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/18/business/afghanistan-lithium-rare-earths-mining/index.html
    Sensible Americans would have let the Afghans develop these sources of export revenue, before they pulled out. Now it will be China running the mines.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    kinabalu said:

    Morning all, on topic -

    It makes no logical sense to apply the triple lock this year – that’s obvious and so we must scrabble around for a fresh angle on the subject. I think I have one.

    In almost every conceivable way it’s better to be young than old. I won’t list all the ways – not in the mood – and I don’t need to. Not expecting an argument on the point.

    Why is this relevant to the thread topic of pensions? It’s relevant because the core issue is equity between the generations. What we usually hear is that the young are subsidizing the old. Which is true. They do. But think of it a different way. The young have copious amounts of something very precious – time. Time is the most precious commodity on the planet since it’s needed for literally everything and is strictly limited in supply, extra amounts cannot under any circumstances be manufactured.

    This isn't an airy fairy intangible asset it has hard monetary value. Eg, the average 61 year old would be willing to pay approx 50% (maybe more) of their net worth in order to become an average 21 year old. That’s just by way of illustration, some would pay less, some more, and in general the older you are the more you’d be willing to cough up. Let’s not quibble on the detail. The point I’m making is that when you bring in this metric – which is both genuine and material - young people start to look much £££ wealthier and old people much £££ poorer. Once in this frame of mind the objection to one year’s triple lock anomaly seems petty.

    Although I might negotiate hard I suspect I would give 100% of my wealth to be 21 again.
    Gosh, ok. I think you're an outlier there. But maybe not. Once the market is developed - with sufficient liquidity - we'll find out.

    Technical note: You'll need to find a willing counterparty. Either a single one, a 21 year old who will sell you the 44 years, you becoming 21, them 65, or multiples, eg you buy 10 years off a 25 year old, 20 off an 18 year old, and 14 off a 30 year old, you emerging as 21, them becoming 35, 38, 44 respectively.

    One can see it working well as an exchange rather like Betfair. One thing's for sure, it will change the calculus of the 'intergenerational unfairness' debate quite markedly.
    I'm obviously completely misunderstanding kinabalu. I thought you were offering me the ability to be 21 again. Who wouldn't swap that for all their wealth. My understanding though is the technology does exist yet. If you know otherwise please let me have the contact details and I will be on the phone straight away.
    Joe Haldeman wrote a book with that theme: The Long Habit of Living (https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/The_Long_Habit_of_Living.html?id=9jA0IakrxpsC&redir_esc=y )

    "The Stileman Process" rejuvenated you back to your twenties. To pay for it: all your wealth (minimum of $1 million). And it had to be renewed every ten years (so you'd better get earning again quickly).
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Accruing wealth via property, that's so last year....we should all be buying NFTs.....I mean who doesn't want to spend £100k on a jpeg of a rock.

    What is the difference between an NFT and a painting or sculpture?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    edited August 2021
    Sandpit said:

    So, ten overs in 20/20 mode, then put them in for a couple of hours this evening chasing 300?

    What is this 20/20 you speak of? I would have said they could go into Hundred mode.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,525
    edited August 2021
    HYUFD said:



    Macron, Merkel is on her way out, Boris is probably second but Macron will effectively become de facto EU leader once Merkel goes next month too

    A side-issue compared with current developments, but interesting to see how globally popular Merkel is (and perhaps the slump in CDU polling is partly just regret that she's going) - vastly preferred to Johnson even in Britain and to Macron even in France. Biden and Trudeau well-liked too, but everyone else negative, with Johnson more unpopular than Putin in Italy and Germany. Macron is fairly popular *except* in Italy and France ("nobody is a hero to his family").

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/26/angela-merkel-scores-higher-in-approval-ratings-than-any-current-world-leader
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Charles said:

    Accruing wealth via property, that's so last year....we should all be buying NFTs.....I mean who doesn't want to spend £100k on a jpeg of a rock.

    What is the difference between an NFT and a painting or sculpture?
    If you buy a painting or sculpture, you have a physical painting or sculpture.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    edited August 2021
    Charles said:

    Accruing wealth via property, that's so last year....we should all be buying NFTs.....I mean who doesn't want to spend £100k on a jpeg of a rock.

    What is the difference between an NFT and a painting or sculpture?
    To be fair, there are genuine uses of NFT, for proper digital art.

    This isn't it though....
    https://hypebeast.com/2021/8/nft-ethereum-etherrocks-jpeg-1-million-usd-price-surge

    All these auto-generated pebbles and bitmap crypto punks and the crypto kitties and the copy of the text of a tweet....

    The worst one is the NBA Top Shot, you don't even own the rights to the clip you buy, so it isn't like you buy an NFT of a famous highlight from NBA history and then you own the copyright on it....you literally own a video of a clip, which you have nothing beyond that, the NBA still own the copyright on all NBA video and free to do as they see fit (and monetize).
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    2 SAS Airbuses are flying Copenhagen to Islamabad due to land within 9 minutes of each other.

    bringing back people evacuated from Kabul? scheduling seems strange otherwise.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,773
    US deaths confirmed.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited August 2021
    Larisa Brown
    @larisamlbrown
    ·
    28m
    Confirmed no UK casualties in attack at Abbey gate near the Baron hotel



    Surprised at how confident she is, so soon after the attack, but hopefully good news for Brits.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Foss said:

    It must be starting to get dark over there.

    Afghanistan’s been dark for many years
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    Charles said:

    Accruing wealth via property, that's so last year....we should all be buying NFTs.....I mean who doesn't want to spend £100k on a jpeg of a rock.

    What is the difference between an NFT and a painting or sculpture?
    Paintings and sculptures are used for investment and money laundering by the very rich and established elite whereas NFTs are used for speculation and money laundering by the new generation of cyber criminal entrepreneurs and up and coming criminals?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Charles said:

    Accruing wealth via property, that's so last year....we should all be buying NFTs.....I mean who doesn't want to spend £100k on a jpeg of a rock.

    What is the difference between an NFT and a painting or sculpture?
    To be fair, there are genuine uses of NFT, for proper digital art.

    This isn't it though....
    https://hypebeast.com/2021/8/nft-ethereum-etherrocks-jpeg-1-million-usd-price-surge

    All they auto-generated pebbles and bitmap crypto punks and the crypto kitties.
    Damian Hirst has done a kind of crypto challenge

    https://www.heni.com/
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    US deaths confirmed.

    military?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,999
    edited August 2021
    38,281 cases...140 deaths....

    England cases look flat.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    2 SAS Airbuses are flying Copenhagen to Islamabad due to land within 9 minutes of each other.

    bringing back people evacuated from Kabul? scheduling seems strange otherwise.

    Aren't they going to the wrong way?
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    edited August 2021

    2 SAS Airbuses are flying Copenhagen to Islamabad due to land within 9 minutes of each other.

    bringing back people evacuated from Kabul? scheduling seems strange otherwise.

    Aren't they going to the wrong way?
    i presumed they might be empty on the way out. but you're right I should have said "going to bring back" not "bringing back".
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    I suppose the worse outcome for Biden if American / allied soldiers are also killed.

    What happens if we stop airlifting? Just leave potential British citizens over there?

    I don’t think Biden & the Us public care about non-US allied soldiers. Sad to say.

    The new America first consensus is a reality we have to deal with and plan for in the future.
    Until 2024 as I said before given the absence of leadership from the White House the leader of the free world will effectively be Emmanuel Macron with a bit of help from Boris.

    In the absence of US direction it is France and the UK who have largely been leading this evacuation
    Don't be so silly a) Macron is French and b) President Trump, for it could be he, has no direction.

    Why are you not claiming St. Boris keeps on rockin' in the free world?
  • One thing that looks a bit concerning, the heatmap of cases in England, definite leakage now into the older age groups.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    edited August 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting line in here: Taliban not bothered by the loss of Western aid because “They assume that any money that the west doesn’t give them will be replaced by China, Pakistan, Russia and Saudi Arabia.” Will be interesting to see if that's true.
    https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1430848001036197892

    Do the middle two have any to spare ?
    And if they think China gives money out without rather more strings than we do, they are more delusional than I thought.

    China's only strings will be that the Taliban does not mess with the new Chinese mines that will be dug. Easy for the Taliban and in return they will get squillions from dig and sell.
    That sounds pretty delusional to me, too.
    Afghanistan is one of the poorest nations in the world. But in 2010, US military officials and geologists revealed that the country, which lies at the crossroads of Central and South Asia, was sitting on mineral deposits worth nearly $1 trillion.

    Supplies of minerals such as iron, copper and gold are scattered across provinces. There are also rare earth minerals and, perhaps most importantly, what could be one of the world's biggest deposits of lithium — an essential but scarce component in rechargeable batteries and other technologies vital to tackling the climate crisis.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/08/18/business/afghanistan-lithium-rare-earths-mining/index.html
    Sensible Americans would have let the Afghans develop these sources of export revenue, before they pulled out. Now it will be China running the mines.
    No one is going to be mining anything when 40 years of a total lack of security means no profit is likely to be forthcoming I'm afraid.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    The focus seems to be on the Triple Lock, why not a refund or a rebate for students who have been taught from home for the last year+? Why are they ignored?

    One reason is they do not vote.

    Old people do.
    They do vote, just not in large enough quantities - but I very much agree with the basis of your point.
    And I agree with the basis of yours. Young people have been treated very badly in this pandemic and it is time it stopped. High time.
    Young people have been treated badly for the last twenty+ years, it did not start with COVID.

    I am fortunate enough to be in the position to be buying a house due to inherited money, if I didn't have that I would be utterly screwed and I am a higher earner for my age. A Government needs to do something about that.
    I had this conversation with a 29 year old at work a few months back. You could afford property, we can't.

    Its true of course, but there is further point to make. When I bought all those years ago, it was a joint effort with my missus and that was generally the way it was done.

    Property is still accessible if two of you pitch in right? trouble is, many young people don't seem to want the lifetime commitments of previous generations.

    Their lifestyle is their right and I support their right to choose it, but there are always going to be trade-offs.
    I am buying with somebody else, if I was alone despite the money I had inherited, I would still be screwed.
    I have to ask. What property are you trying to buy that two high earners would be screwed if it weren’t for inherited money?
    Welcome to London
    Is it all so prohibitively expensive that it wouldn’t be possible just with normal savings, without relying on inheritance?
    Yes.

    The 2 bed terrace in wandsworth i bought for 140k in 1992 and sold for 145 in 1994 now wants 1.1m.
    Property down here has been a magic money tree for ages. Once on the ladder all a person had to do was, each time they move, don't sell, keep the old one and rent out, do this a few times over say 30 years, and barring accidents they're rich. Periodically remortgage the older items in the portfolio to generate cash (if required) for deposits on later purchases. I know a bloke (used to work with him) who did this, starting at age 25 or so. No big tycoon type activity, just this slow, no drama, largely administrative plod as described. He had a good City career but he made more from this. No real added value, of course, (and same goes for the City career) but much personal wealth garnered. This, I think, tells us something about how our economy works.
    Yes, I wish I'd done that. But in retrospect, at no stage did I think house prices were going to go on rising, and - though I was wrong - even in retrospect I don't think my conclusion was obviously misplaced.

    I still don't understand how even with ultra-low interest rates, even with the demand of 20 years population growth, houses are as expensive as they are. I'd have thought there's be a point at which they'd outstrip people's ability to own them. But ultimately it turns out there's a lot more money sloshing around in the country than I'd expected.
    Yes, this chap saw the structural big picture, which is no mean feat at 25. And he only had a deposit for one modest purchase to start with. So from this viewpoint, he's deserving of the wealth accrual, but intuitively there's something wrong. It's a case of 'to he who hath, much shall be given, and he who hath not can go whistle'.
    And rising house prices have been such a blatant "something for nothing" that there's clearly someone else who is getting nothing for something.

    Just imagine if all that capital and thinking had gone into something actually productive.
    Is what I'm driving at. The economy is not a simple, zero sum game, it's big and complex with many facets to it; nevertheless if some people are being remunerated way beyond their genuine contribution, and this is happening on a grand scale, it follows that many many others are being screwed. This is largely the essence of the economy we have. And you can gross up and substitute 'countries' for 'people' and it still holds. This to me is the fundamental meaning 'of living beyond one's means'. It's not about overdrafts and trade deficits, it's people and countries enjoying a higher standard of living than their contribution merits. So, the UK (indeed the West in general) is living beyond its means, cf the world as a whole, and within the UK most of its affluent citizens are living beyond their means, cf the UK population as a whole. You don't need to be able to trace every distinct cause and effect to know that this is true.
    A lot of people live below their means
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    edited August 2021

    One thing that looks a bit concerning, the heatmap of cases in England, definite leakage now into the older age groups.


    They are double jabbed though. And soon to be triple jabbed. And the treatment is better than ever.

    what more can we do...??
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,278
    I posted this at 2pm today

    ‘I have an ominous feeling this evacuation might end very soon, and in even greater chaos

    Those are brave Allied soldiers, out there’

    An hour later..

    However, it doesn’t take Rogerdamus to foresee this

    What I did say a week back was that ISIS or AQ would attack the airport, not the Taliban. It was so bloody obvious
This discussion has been closed.