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For 78-year-old Biden not being Trump is no longer enough – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 8,489
edited August 25 in General
imageFor 78-year-old Biden not being Trump is no longer enough – politicalbetting.com

The RCP chart shows the trend in Biden’s average approval ratings which in the past few days have slumped into negative territory for the first time.

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 908
    Coo!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 64,561
    Biden is an awful President who should never have won a primary let alone an election.

    Still infinitely better than Trump. But the Democrats need to think hard on the primaries for 2024 or the GOP really will have an easy ride then (so long as they don't choose Trump again).
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,027
    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,575
    edited August 25

    Biden is an awful President who should never have won a primary let alone an election.

    Still infinitely better than Trump. But the Democrats need to think hard on the primaries for 2024 or the GOP really will have an easy ride then (so long as they don't choose Trump again).

    He was elected because he had no fatal negatives, not because he had any striking positives.

    Given that it wasn’t a total walkover, that was probably the right choice.

    Like the Tories who put a clown in Downing Street solely to beat Corbyn and see Brexit done, there’s a price for having such narrow horizons.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,652

    Biden is an awful President who should never have won a primary let alone an election.

    Still infinitely better than Trump. But the Democrats need to think hard on the primaries for 2024 or the GOP really will have an easy ride then (so long as they don't choose Trump again).

    Only Biden could have beaten Trump imho.

    That was his one last job.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,652
    On the Unite 'surprise':


    "Ms Graham said she has 'simple beliefs' that trade unions exist to fight bad employers and the way to do that is to build the strength of the union at the workplace first.

    She said: I have built Unite through the organising department, at the workplace, across industries, fighting bad bosses."

    D Mail
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 32,027
    On topic I expect some nostalgia for having such a "character" as The Donald as POTUS by the next election.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,837
    I don't like laying stuff esp 3 years out, but Biden 10/3 for WH 2024 is surely the most screaming lay in the history of political betting?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,238

    Biden is an awful President who should never have won a primary let alone an election.

    Still infinitely better than Trump. But the Democrats need to think hard on the primaries for 2024 or the GOP really will have an easy ride then (so long as they don't choose Trump again).

    To me this is the key. As that wonderful spoof advert from the Now Show said, ‘what he is, what he has always been, and what he will be as your next President, is Not Donald Trump. And that is what makes Joe Biden acceptable, under the circumstances.’

    Of course, that was always going to be a bit of a problem when he had to deal with the very large problems Trump had left behind. And the fact he is not dealing with them very well - to put it mildly - suggests he isn’t really what was needed. Equally, of course, what was needed - somebody truly brilliant, charismatic, imaginative, energetic and decisive - wasn’t available. Buttigieg might have been closest to it, but given his youth and inexperience he wasn’t close.

    I still think he will only serve one term. The key therefore is to make sure both parties move on from their current awful selection of leaders next time.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,514

    On the Unite 'surprise':


    "Ms Graham said she has 'simple beliefs' that trade unions exist to fight bad employers and the way to do that is to build the strength of the union at the workplace first.

    She said: I have built Unite through the organising department, at the workplace, across industries, fighting bad bosses."

    D Mail

    This is good news for Starmer overall. Nailed on now though that the party conference will be close to a challenge.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,637
    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Masks are still supposed to be compulsory on London's public transport.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,652
    edited August 25
    IanB2 said:

    Biden is an awful President who should never have won a primary let alone an election.

    Still infinitely better than Trump. But the Democrats need to think hard on the primaries for 2024 or the GOP really will have an easy ride then (so long as they don't choose Trump again).

    He was elected because he had no fatal negatives, not because he had any striking positives.

    Given that it wasn’t a total walkover, that was probably the right choice.

    Like the Tories who put a clown in Downing Street solely to beat Corbyn and see Brexit done, there’s a price for having such narrow horizons.
    The idea that he should never have won a primary is crazy imho. The good folk of S Carolina saw that he could beat Trump and had decades of experience. They went for the right man at the right time for the problem in front of them.

    The only other candidate who came close imho was Buttigieg. He's very impressive. But would he have beaten Trump?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,238

    Biden is an awful President who should never have won a primary let alone an election.

    Still infinitely better than Trump. But the Democrats need to think hard on the primaries for 2024 or the GOP really will have an easy ride then (so long as they don't choose Trump again).

    Only Biden could have beaten Trump imho.

    That was his one last job.
    I think the problem (and I’ve said this before) come aback to the lack of profile among Democratic candidates. All three of Obama’s two Secretaries of State and vice-President were in their 60s/70s in 2016. There were simply no younger candidates forcing their way through. Of those three, apart from age, Kerry was already a failed candidate and Hilary Clinton was incredibly divisive. That left Biden carrying the torch. And he did it very well - he said all the right things - but he’s not showing what’s needed now to sort things out.

    Somewhere, a younger candidate in their fifties should have been brought forward, perhaps by Biden or Kerry resigning and being replaced by somebody younger, somebody being groomed for the succession. Bad oversight by Obama that he didn’t do it.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,837

    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Masks are still supposed to be compulsory on London's public transport.
    Also, dogs must be carried. Where will it end?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,238
    Incidentally these BBC highlights package are absolutely pathetic. I am not interested in seeing the reactions of a has-been like Agnew reacting to the events of two years ago. When 10 wickets have fallen in the day there should be plenty of action to occupy half an hour.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 38,637
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Masks are still supposed to be compulsory on London's public transport.
    Also, dogs must be carried. Where will it end?
    "That is not my dog."
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,199
    edited August 25
    Media watchdog Ofcom quits Stonewall diversity scheme

    Hundreds of private and public organisations - including the BBC - are members of the Diversity Champions scheme.

    In return for an annual payment, members receive advice on issues such as the use of personal pronouns at work, and whether single-sex toilets should be accessible to people from the opposite sex, but who identify as trans.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58336116

    It sounds rather like a bit of a shake down.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,652
    Paging @Foxy


    "A-level result parties fuel 'astonishing' Covid surge in historic market town in Leicester, health chiefs warn"

    Mail
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,514
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Masks are still supposed to be compulsory on London's public transport.
    Also, dogs must be carried. Where will it end?
    Edgware Road. 'All change'
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,837

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Masks are still supposed to be compulsory on London's public transport.
    Also, dogs must be carried. Where will it end?
    "That is not my dog."
    Yes, but do you have a licence for that minke?
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    My lay of the Dems for 2024 is now in profit.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,550
    IshmaelZ said:

    I don't like laying stuff esp 3 years out, but Biden 10/3 for WH 2024 is surely the most screaming lay in the history of political betting?

    I think that was the no mark who finished down the field at the London Mayoral election!
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195
    Depressing, but unfortunately not surprising in todays world

    https://courtnewsuk.co.uk/grenfell-tower-worker-blamed-jews-for-the-fire/

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,199

    Paging @Foxy


    "A-level result parties fuel 'astonishing' Covid surge in historic market town in Leicester, health chiefs warn"

    Mail

    Leicester is one of the places where COVID never seems to drop off.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,575
    ydoethur said:

    Biden is an awful President who should never have won a primary let alone an election.

    Still infinitely better than Trump. But the Democrats need to think hard on the primaries for 2024 or the GOP really will have an easy ride then (so long as they don't choose Trump again).

    Only Biden could have beaten Trump imho.

    That was his one last job.
    I think the problem (and I’ve said this before) come aback to the lack of profile among Democratic candidates. All three of Obama’s two Secretaries of State and vice-President were in their 60s/70s in 2016. There were simply no younger candidates forcing their way through. Of those three, apart from age, Kerry was already a failed candidate and Hilary Clinton was incredibly divisive. That left Biden carrying the torch. And he did it very well - he said all the right things - but he’s not showing what’s needed now to sort things out.

    Somewhere, a younger candidate in their fifties should have been brought forward, perhaps by Biden or Kerry resigning and being replaced by somebody younger, somebody being groomed for the succession. Bad oversight by Obama that he didn’t do it.
    It is striking how US voters are willing to tolerate candidates way beyond the age at which most European countries would look for someone with a bit more energy.

    I really don’t know whether the US clings onto some excessive respect for those with decades of experience, or whether the $-driven nature of US politics makes it difficult to get to the top of the greasy pole without decades of greasing the right palms and dispensing the right pork.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 21,319
    That said the Dems are on course to pass two incredibly popular pieces of legislation in the next month or so as long as Congressional Dems don't fuck it up.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,575
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Masks are still supposed to be compulsory on London's public transport.
    Also, dogs must be carried. Where will it end?
    With a bagdogs hashtag like wot you already have on Instagram thanks to NYC
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    On the Unite 'surprise':


    "Ms Graham said she has 'simple beliefs' that trade unions exist to fight bad employers and the way to do that is to build the strength of the union at the workplace first.

    She said: I have built Unite through the organising department, at the workplace, across industries, fighting bad bosses."

    D Mail

    Union bosses will to some degree have to get involved in national politics, but some of the recent ones give the impression theyd much rather be politicians than it just being part of the job.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 9,371
    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Along with any attempt to enforce mask wearing on the tube.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,199
    edited August 25
    This is very encouraging news...

    Just 0.98% of participants in an ONS study have been reinfected with Covid

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9925255/Just-1-Covid-survivors-Britain-reinfected-half-likely-symptoms.html
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 1,821
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Masks are still supposed to be compulsory on London's public transport.
    Also, dogs must be carried. Where will it end?
    Barking.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 69,759

    Biden is an awful President who should never have won a primary let alone an election.

    Still infinitely better than Trump. But the Democrats need to think hard on the primaries for 2024 or the GOP really will have an easy ride then (so long as they don't choose Trump again).

    Only Biden could have beaten Trump imho.

    That was his one last job.
    Part of why some progressives dont like him presumably - having done that how dare he seek to govern his way?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,575
    Floater said:
    So you are “Leon”’s stand-in while he hits tonight’s bottle?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 10,757
    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Yesterday I took the two lines into town just after rush hour and home again at the tail end, with most seats taken but only one or two standing for the most part, I'd say the vast majority were wearing masks, and mostly but not always covering mouth and nose.

  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 15,524
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Biden is an awful President who should never have won a primary let alone an election.

    Still infinitely better than Trump. But the Democrats need to think hard on the primaries for 2024 or the GOP really will have an easy ride then (so long as they don't choose Trump again).

    Only Biden could have beaten Trump imho.

    That was his one last job.
    I think the problem (and I’ve said this before) come aback to the lack of profile among Democratic candidates. All three of Obama’s two Secretaries of State and vice-President were in their 60s/70s in 2016. There were simply no younger candidates forcing their way through. Of those three, apart from age, Kerry was already a failed candidate and Hilary Clinton was incredibly divisive. That left Biden carrying the torch. And he did it very well - he said all the right things - but he’s not showing what’s needed now to sort things out.

    Somewhere, a younger candidate in their fifties should have been brought forward, perhaps by Biden or Kerry resigning and being replaced by somebody younger, somebody being groomed for the succession. Bad oversight by Obama that he didn’t do it.
    It is striking how US voters are willing to tolerate candidates way beyond the age at which most European countries would look for someone with a bit more energy.

    I really don’t know whether the US clings onto some excessive respect for those with decades of experience, or whether the $-driven nature of US politics makes it difficult to get to the top of the greasy pole without decades of greasing the right palms and dispensing the right pork.
    Biden is the second oldest living President. The third being Trump. Clinton, Bush and Obama are all younger than both of them.
    So clearly it wasn't always so.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,652
    Floater said:
    That is ouch indeed.
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,837

    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Masks are still supposed to be compulsory on London's public transport.
    Also, dogs must be carried. Where will it end?
    Barking.
    :lol:
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 44,652
    kle4 said:

    On the Unite 'surprise':


    "Ms Graham said she has 'simple beliefs' that trade unions exist to fight bad employers and the way to do that is to build the strength of the union at the workplace first.

    She said: I have built Unite through the organising department, at the workplace, across industries, fighting bad bosses."

    D Mail

    Union bosses will to some degree have to get involved in national politics, but some of the recent ones give the impression theyd much rather be politicians than it just being part of the job.
    Len consider himself Corbyn's deputy leader and chief of staff as far as I could see.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,238
    edited August 25
    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Biden is an awful President who should never have won a primary let alone an election.

    Still infinitely better than Trump. But the Democrats need to think hard on the primaries for 2024 or the GOP really will have an easy ride then (so long as they don't choose Trump again).

    Only Biden could have beaten Trump imho.

    That was his one last job.
    I think the problem (and I’ve said this before) come aback to the lack of profile among Democratic candidates. All three of Obama’s two Secretaries of State and vice-President were in their 60s/70s in 2016. There were simply no younger candidates forcing their way through. Of those three, apart from age, Kerry was already a failed candidate and Hilary Clinton was incredibly divisive. That left Biden carrying the torch. And he did it very well - he said all the right things - but he’s not showing what’s needed now to sort things out.

    Somewhere, a younger candidate in their fifties should have been brought forward, perhaps by Biden or Kerry resigning and being replaced by somebody younger, somebody being groomed for the succession. Bad oversight by Obama that he didn’t do it.
    It is striking how US voters are willing to tolerate candidates way beyond the age at which most European countries would look for someone with a bit more energy.

    I really don’t know whether the US clings onto some excessive respect for those with decades of experience, or whether the $-driven nature of US politics makes it difficult to get to the top of the greasy pole without decades of greasing the right palms and dispensing the right pork.
    Oldest PMs by age of departure from office

    Gladstone 84
    Palmerston 80
    Churchill 80
    Disraeli 75
    Lord John Russell 73
    Lord Salisbury 72
    Campbell Bannerman 71
    Neville Chamberlain 71
    The Duke of Portland 71
    Lord Aberdeen 71
    Earl Grey 70

    It is to my mind rather striking that only one of those was elected via a general election in the age of universal suffrage.

    Equally, of course, Palmerston probably would have won elections under any franchise even in his seventies.

    (And to be controversial, Chamberlain would easily have won an election in October 1938, although fortunately he had more sense than to call one.)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 36,575
    It looks like the government has taken such a beating from the “yeah but no but yeah but no” nature of its previous travel policy reviews that tomorrow’s announcement - the last of this year’s holiday season - isn’t expected to change anything much?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 65,199
    Floater said:
    Twitter pile on incoming.....
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 1,914
    IshmaelZ said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Masks are still supposed to be compulsory on London's public transport.
    Also, dogs must be carried. Where will it end?
    Dogs wearing masks, carrying humans?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,097
    Alistair said:

    That said the Dems are on course to pass two incredibly popular pieces of legislation in the next month or so as long as Congressional Dems don't fuck it up.

    This is why Biden, while a bit unlikely to have a second term, isn't a clear lay. Too long tying up the money, and not short enough odds.
    It's far from impossible that he runs again.
  • @Mexicanpete Re earlier, your son is going to do great things, I know so :) And when he does, he can show those idiots what's what
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 13,866
    The problem isn't being 78 per se. There are lots of people that age who are still as sharp as ever.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,238
    stodge said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Along with any attempt to enforce mask wearing on the tube.
    I’ve been taking some trips along the Cambrian line north from Machynlleth. They’ve had marshalls going along enforcing mask wearing.

    However, that was only on full services. When I was travelling from Barmouth, they were active. When I was on a near-empty train north of Harlech, they weren’t bothered.

    Strange, when you consider in a pressurised environment with recirculating air distance would make no actual difference.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,238
    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    That said the Dems are on course to pass two incredibly popular pieces of legislation in the next month or so as long as Congressional Dems don't fuck it up.

    This is why Biden, while a bit unlikely to have a second term, isn't a clear lay. Too long tying up the money, and not short enough odds.
    It's far from impossible that he runs again.
    Well, at least ambles gently.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 570
    Biden was the right person at the right time to defeat Trump . I don’t see him trying to go for another term . The Dems best chance of staying in the WH is for Trump to become the GOP nominee.

    As much as many seem to like Buttigieg including myself there is the elephant in the room . Would the USA vote in a gay President . I can’t see it myself.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,238
    Andy_JS said:

    The problem isn't being 78 per se. There are lots of people that age who are still as sharp as ever.

    Well, so is he.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,238
    nico679 said:

    Biden was the right person at the right time to defeat Trump . I don’t see him trying to go for another term . The Dems best chance of staying in the WH is for Trump to become the GOP nominee.

    As much as many seem to like Buttigieg including myself there is the elephant in the room . Would the USA vote in a gay President . I can’t see it myself.

    Well, they already have, although I suppose there was a don’t ask, don’t tell element to his career.

    As his presidency ended in a civil war it perhaps isn’t exactly a happy precedent either.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 34,097
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Alistair said:

    That said the Dems are on course to pass two incredibly popular pieces of legislation in the next month or so as long as Congressional Dems don't fuck it up.

    This is why Biden, while a bit unlikely to have a second term, isn't a clear lay. Too long tying up the money, and not short enough odds.
    It's far from impossible that he runs again.
    Well, at least ambles gently.
    Still better at ramps than Trump.
    Just.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,514
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Biden is an awful President who should never have won a primary let alone an election.

    Still infinitely better than Trump. But the Democrats need to think hard on the primaries for 2024 or the GOP really will have an easy ride then (so long as they don't choose Trump again).

    Only Biden could have beaten Trump imho.

    That was his one last job.
    I think the problem (and I’ve said this before) come aback to the lack of profile among Democratic candidates. All three of Obama’s two Secretaries of State and vice-President were in their 60s/70s in 2016. There were simply no younger candidates forcing their way through. Of those three, apart from age, Kerry was already a failed candidate and Hilary Clinton was incredibly divisive. That left Biden carrying the torch. And he did it very well - he said all the right things - but he’s not showing what’s needed now to sort things out.

    Somewhere, a younger candidate in their fifties should have been brought forward, perhaps by Biden or Kerry resigning and being replaced by somebody younger, somebody being groomed for the succession. Bad oversight by Obama that he didn’t do it.
    It is striking how US voters are willing to tolerate candidates way beyond the age at which most European countries would look for someone with a bit more energy.

    I really don’t know whether the US clings onto some excessive respect for those with decades of experience, or whether the $-driven nature of US politics makes it difficult to get to the top of the greasy pole without decades of greasing the right palms and dispensing the right pork.
    Oldest PMs by age of departure from office

    Gladstone 84
    Palmerston 80
    Churchill 80
    Disraeli 75
    Lord John Russell 73
    Lord Salisbury 72
    Campbell Bannerman 71
    Neville Chamberlain 71
    The Duke of Portland 71
    Lord Aberdeen 71
    Earl Grey 70

    It is to my mind rather striking that only one of those was elected via a general election in the age of universal suffrage.

    Equally, of course, Palmerston probably would have won elections under any franchise even in his seventies.

    (And to be controversial, Chamberlain would easily have won an election in October 1938, although fortunately he had more sense than to call one.)
    You'd probably want to lop off about 5 years to their modern equivalents. Some of these were awful.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,227
    Andy_JS said:

    The problem isn't being 78 per se. There are lots of people that age who are still as sharp as ever.

    I doubt there are many people who reach 78 who are still quite as mentally agile as they were at 30. My dad notices it with his driving: he used to drive massive distances each year between sites (I think 30k miles) and was an excellent driver. He now tries not to drive at night, because he finds it tiring, and he admits his driving skills are not as polished as they were.

    Yet to talk to him, he is just as sharp as he ever was.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,514
    nico679 said:

    Biden was the right person at the right time to defeat Trump . I don’t see him trying to go for another term . The Dems best chance of staying in the WH is for Trump to become the GOP nominee.

    As much as many seem to like Buttigieg including myself there is the elephant in the room . Would the USA vote in a gay President . I can’t see it myself.

    If Biden was only about defeating Trump then I'd prefer Trump. I dislike Trump.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 25,519
    kle4 said:

    On the Unite 'surprise':


    "Ms Graham said she has 'simple beliefs' that trade unions exist to fight bad employers and the way to do that is to build the strength of the union at the workplace first.

    She said: I have built Unite through the organising department, at the workplace, across industries, fighting bad bosses."

    D Mail

    Union bosses will to some degree have to get involved in national politics, but some of the recent ones give the impression theyd much rather be politicians than it just being part of the job.
    I don't want to see Labour detach from the unions. The union link keeps them grounded and in touch with their roots. Labour without the unions would be like the kid who leaves his blue collar town for a top uni and doesn't go home for Christmas.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 41,611
    ydoethur said:

    Biden is an awful President who should never have won a primary let alone an election.

    Still infinitely better than Trump. But the Democrats need to think hard on the primaries for 2024 or the GOP really will have an easy ride then (so long as they don't choose Trump again).

    Only Biden could have beaten Trump imho.

    That was his one last job.
    I think the problem (and I’ve said this before) come aback to the lack of profile among Democratic candidates. All three of Obama’s two Secretaries of State and vice-President were in their 60s/70s in 2016. There were simply no younger candidates forcing their way through. Of those three, apart from age, Kerry was already a failed candidate and Hilary Clinton was incredibly divisive. That left Biden carrying the torch. And he did it very well - he said all the right things - but he’s not showing what’s needed now to sort things out.

    Somewhere, a younger candidate in their fifties should have been brought forward, perhaps by Biden or Kerry resigning and being replaced by somebody younger, somebody being groomed for the succession. Bad oversight by Obama that he didn’t do it.
    It's interesting, the Republicans have a number of young, charismatic players who one could easily see in the White House in the decade - Hawley or DeSantis from the Trump wing of the Party, Sasse from the sane side.

    The Democrats, for a while at least, did not. But I think that is beginning to change. Buttigieg was the star of the Democratic Primary season, but Jon Ossoff looks equally impressive.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,550
    Aubameyang brace and HT bets look good tonight 9/2 25/1
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 43,238
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    On the Unite 'surprise':


    "Ms Graham said she has 'simple beliefs' that trade unions exist to fight bad employers and the way to do that is to build the strength of the union at the workplace first.

    She said: I have built Unite through the organising department, at the workplace, across industries, fighting bad bosses."

    D Mail

    Union bosses will to some degree have to get involved in national politics, but some of the recent ones give the impression theyd much rather be politicians than it just being part of the job.
    I don't want to see Labour detach from the unions. The union link keeps them grounded and in touch with their roots. Labour without the unions would be like the kid who leaves his blue collar town for a top uni and doesn't go home for Christmas.
    I would gently suggest that the whole problem under Corbyn - who was in effect a stooge for the unions and certainly far more in thrall to them than any leader for fifty years - was exactly that Labour had completely lost touch with their roots.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 5,650
    Andy_JS said:

    The problem isn't being 78 per se. There are lots of people that age who are still as sharp as ever.

    Glad to hear it.

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,227
    Aside from not being Trump, I'm unsure what Biden has to offer. He seems a bit of a blank canvas and rather uninspiring.

    Then again, I'm not an American voter.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 6,514
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    On the Unite 'surprise':


    "Ms Graham said she has 'simple beliefs' that trade unions exist to fight bad employers and the way to do that is to build the strength of the union at the workplace first.

    She said: I have built Unite through the organising department, at the workplace, across industries, fighting bad bosses."

    D Mail

    Union bosses will to some degree have to get involved in national politics, but some of the recent ones give the impression theyd much rather be politicians than it just being part of the job.
    I don't want to see Labour detach from the unions. The union link keeps them grounded and in touch with their roots. Labour without the unions would be like the kid who leaves his blue collar town for a top uni and doesn't go home for Christmas.
    "Labour and the unions" is the horror story. A story of bad men, bad ideas, and a complete raid on the UK.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,509
    Business leaders call for relaxation of post-Brexit visa rules as predictions over exodus of EU workers in low paid jobs realised. Worst supply chain crisis since 70s say industry chiefs https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/25/business-leaders-call-for-relaxation-of-post-brexit-visa-rules?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
  • TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Yesterday I took the two lines into town just after rush hour and home again at the tail end, with most seats taken but only one or two standing for the most part, I'd say the vast majority were wearing masks, and mostly but not always covering mouth and nose.

    In London on holiday last week and mask wearing 60% at best on the tube. No attempts observed to encourage conpliance.
  • pingping Posts: 1,429
    Great tipping @isam
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 18,366
    Scott_xP said:

    Business leaders call for relaxation of post-Brexit visa rules as predictions over exodus of EU workers in low paid jobs realised. Worst supply chain crisis since 70s say industry chiefs https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/25/business-leaders-call-for-relaxation-of-post-brexit-visa-rules?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I had my first "supply chain" issue today when I couldn't buy Bisto gravy granules at the CO! :open_mouth:
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 908

    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Yesterday I took the two lines into town just after rush hour and home again at the tail end, with most seats taken but only one or two standing for the most part, I'd say the vast majority were wearing masks, and mostly but not always covering mouth and nose.

    In London on holiday last week and mask wearing 60% at best on the tube. No attempts observed to encourage compliance.
    Of course nobody's trying to enforce it. With that many passengers and such a large proportion refusing, how would they go about making a reasonable attempt to do so?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 908
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Business leaders call for relaxation of post-Brexit visa rules as predictions over exodus of EU workers in low paid jobs realised. Worst supply chain crisis since 70s say industry chiefs https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/25/business-leaders-call-for-relaxation-of-post-brexit-visa-rules?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I had my first "supply chain" issue today when I couldn't buy Bisto gravy granules at the CO! :open_mouth:
    Shortage of diced chicken in convenient-sized packets in Tesco.

    It's devastating, but somehow I shall survive.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 16,509
    GIN1138 said:

    I had my first "supply chain" issue today when I couldn't buy Bisto gravy granules at the CO! :open_mouth:

    The lads will be along shortly to explain why you're wrong.

    You must have imagined it...
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 12,889
    edited August 25
    Joe Biden's problem has nothing to do with his age. He seems remarkably clear sighted in his determination to get out of Afghanistan. The problem is poor intelligence and planning, which he is taking the hit for. Nevertheless if people perceive age to be an issue, it is a problem for him.

    He is about 8 percentage points more popular than Trump was at this point of his presidency. In fact he is still more popular than Trump was at any point - but we need to bear in mind the Republicans get a big bias from the electoral system.

    29% for the next Democrat nomination looks value to me, but I am hopeless at reading American politics.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 17,923
    edited August 25
    I think having Biden as low as 20% for WH2024 is a major, if entirely predictable, overreaction to current news by the betting markets.

    Sure, things could potentially go from bad to worse in Afghanistan but the whole Afghan thing could just as easily drift off the American political radar quite quickly.

    If the US get all or virtually American citizens and a good proportion of their Afghan aides out by 31 August and exit as per Biden's plan, and if the Taliban avoid committing any major atrocities, a lot of this could be very old news by the end of the year and a non-issue by 2024. Indeed, it's still possible that BIden could come out of this looking quite strong by September.

    None of the above is certain but equally I think it more likely than not - which makes Biden a 60% chance of getting the nomination and >40% chance of winning imo.

    (None of which is to diminish the awfulness of the way this Afghan exit has been managed.)
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 4,654
    Scott_xP said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I had my first "supply chain" issue today when I couldn't buy Bisto gravy granules at the CO! :open_mouth:

    The lads will be along shortly to explain why you're wrong.

    You must have imagined it...
    You dont know how to.make real gravy.. jeez...
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,754
    edited August 25
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    On the Unite 'surprise':


    "Ms Graham said she has 'simple beliefs' that trade unions exist to fight bad employers and the way to do that is to build the strength of the union at the workplace first.

    She said: I have built Unite through the organising department, at the workplace, across industries, fighting bad bosses."

    D Mail

    Union bosses will to some degree have to get involved in national politics, but some of the recent ones give the impression theyd much rather be politicians than it just being part of the job.
    I don't want to see Labour detach from the unions. The union link keeps them grounded and in touch with their roots. Labour without the unions would be like the kid who leaves his blue collar town for a top uni and doesn't go home for Christmas.
    If you look at the reality that only 10% of Unite members voted in the election of Sharon Socialist-Worker, one might deduce that the Union is out of touch with its roots.

    Len taught me that the connection between the Labour Party and Union Barons is an unhealthy one. If and when Labour return to power, perhaps after Johnson retires aged 100, in Government they should push for publicly funded political parties.

    The Labour Party can't be trusted either to behave with money from McCluskey or Ecclestone, and let's face it where do we start with Conservative Party financial patronage/ rabid corruption?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 4,260
    IanB2 said:

    Biden is an awful President who should never have won a primary let alone an election.

    Still infinitely better than Trump. But the Democrats need to think hard on the primaries for 2024 or the GOP really will have an easy ride then (so long as they don't choose Trump again).

    He was elected because he had no fatal negatives, not because he had any striking positives.

    Given that it wasn’t a total walkover, that was probably the right choice.

    Like the Tories who put a clown in Downing Street solely to beat Corbyn and see Brexit done, there’s a price for having such narrow horizons.
    It is a bit off, if parties are beginning to go for leaders because they will win elections, rather than because they have much to say about their plans. (If BoJo were to GoGo mid term, his successor would be the third PM in a row chosen by MPs not the general public.)

    But, let's be optimistic. Suppose Biden's plan is to do the things that need doing but can't do because they're thinking about reelection. Or their Veep is. What else should be in the bucket list?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 18,366
    pigeon said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Business leaders call for relaxation of post-Brexit visa rules as predictions over exodus of EU workers in low paid jobs realised. Worst supply chain crisis since 70s say industry chiefs https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/25/business-leaders-call-for-relaxation-of-post-brexit-visa-rules?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I had my first "supply chain" issue today when I couldn't buy Bisto gravy granules at the CO! :open_mouth:
    Shortage of diced chicken in convenient-sized packets in Tesco.

    It's devastating, but somehow I shall survive.
    Thankfully there's always an alternative. As I couldn't get Bisto Gravy Granules I brought Maxwell Bleedin' House instead... ;)
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,334
    Scott_xP said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I had my first "supply chain" issue today when I couldn't buy Bisto gravy granules at the CO! :open_mouth:

    The lads will be along shortly to explain why you're wrong.

    You must have imagined it...
    PB Herd = see no empty shelves, hear no empty shelves, say no empty shelves, ra ra ra, god save Mrs Sachsen Coborg und Gotha.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 12,754
    edited August 25
    GIN1138 said:

    pigeon said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Business leaders call for relaxation of post-Brexit visa rules as predictions over exodus of EU workers in low paid jobs realised. Worst supply chain crisis since 70s say industry chiefs https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/25/business-leaders-call-for-relaxation-of-post-brexit-visa-rules?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I had my first "supply chain" issue today when I couldn't buy Bisto gravy granules at the CO! :open_mouth:
    Shortage of diced chicken in convenient-sized packets in Tesco.

    It's devastating, but somehow I shall survive.
    Thankfully there's always an alternative. As I couldn't get Bisto Gravy Granules I brought Maxwell Bleedin' House instead... ;)
    Black coffee is a gravy substitute?

    You'd be better off with Bovril.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 4,260
    GIN1138 said:

    pigeon said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Business leaders call for relaxation of post-Brexit visa rules as predictions over exodus of EU workers in low paid jobs realised. Worst supply chain crisis since 70s say industry chiefs https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/25/business-leaders-call-for-relaxation-of-post-brexit-visa-rules?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I had my first "supply chain" issue today when I couldn't buy Bisto gravy granules at the CO! :open_mouth:
    Shortage of diced chicken in convenient-sized packets in Tesco.

    It's devastating, but somehow I shall survive.
    Thankfully there's always an alternative. As I couldn't get Bisto Gravy Granules I brought Maxwell Bleedin' House instead... ;)
    If we're going for Blitz spirit, aren't gravy and tights meant to be interchangeable?

    (Though the availability of tights is subject to American Airmen, which may be a problem right now.)
  • edited August 25
    pigeon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Yesterday I took the two lines into town just after rush hour and home again at the tail end, with most seats taken but only one or two standing for the most part, I'd say the vast majority were wearing masks, and mostly but not always covering mouth and nose.

    In London on holiday last week and mask wearing 60% at best on the tube. No attempts observed to encourage compliance.
    Of course nobody's trying to enforce it. With that many passengers and such a large proportion refusing, how would they go about making a reasonable attempt to do so?
    It was merely a comment on an observation, not suggesting they should. What irritates me is pontificating politicians such as Sadiq Khan making it a Condition of Carriage knowing he isn't able to follow through. This just brings authority into disrepute. Mind you, he's not unique in that.
  • PJHPJH Posts: 86
    pigeon said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Business leaders call for relaxation of post-Brexit visa rules as predictions over exodus of EU workers in low paid jobs realised. Worst supply chain crisis since 70s say industry chiefs https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/25/business-leaders-call-for-relaxation-of-post-brexit-visa-rules?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I had my first "supply chain" issue today when I couldn't buy Bisto gravy granules at the CO! :open_mouth:
    Shortage of diced chicken in convenient-sized packets in Tesco.

    It's devastating, but somehow I shall survive.
    That's my experience - whenever I go to my local Sainsbury's there are disguised gaps with individual lines missing, never anything very important and there's usually an alternative if you need it now. I'm usually coming back without 1 or 2 items of 20 or so, but they are always there next time and something else will have run out instead.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 30,260
    kinabalu said:

    kle4 said:

    On the Unite 'surprise':


    "Ms Graham said she has 'simple beliefs' that trade unions exist to fight bad employers and the way to do that is to build the strength of the union at the workplace first.

    She said: I have built Unite through the organising department, at the workplace, across industries, fighting bad bosses."

    D Mail

    Union bosses will to some degree have to get involved in national politics, but some of the recent ones give the impression theyd much rather be politicians than it just being part of the job.
    I don't want to see Labour detach from the unions. The union link keeps them grounded and in touch with their roots. Labour without the unions would be like the kid who leaves his blue collar town for a top uni and doesn't go home for Christmas.
    *Whispers*
    I hope that you..
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 5,334
    stodge said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Along with any attempt to enforce mask wearing on the tube.
    Mask wearing very much a thing here in Perth. Jeepers, the dirty looks when I forgot to put it on. Mind, no one actually said anything.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 12,889
    edited August 25

    Aside from not being Trump, I'm unsure what Biden has to offer. He seems a bit of a blank canvas and rather uninspiring.

    Then again, I'm not an American voter.

    He offers to get America out of Afghanistan. The exit may be messy and it certainly isn't nice for the Afghans, but few Americans seriously want to stay there any longer.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 908

    Scott_xP said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I had my first "supply chain" issue today when I couldn't buy Bisto gravy granules at the CO! :open_mouth:

    The lads will be along shortly to explain why you're wrong.

    You must have imagined it...
    PB Herd = see no empty shelves, hear no empty shelves, say no empty shelves, ra ra ra, god save Mrs Sachsen Coborg und Gotha.
    In fairness, empty shelves can only be reported from personal experience (as distinct from rumours circulating in newspapers) if there are empty shelves for one to experience in the first place.

    So far I've encountered a minor poultry shortage, and my favourite brand of cereal snack bar-type things for work is apparently out of stock until an estimated delivery date of September 1st. Slightly irritating, but it's not exactly a return to the dark days of the March 2020 panic buying phenomenon.
  • pingping Posts: 1,429

    I think having Biden as low as 20% for WH2024 is a major, if entirely predictable, overreaction to current news by the betting markets.

    Sure, things could potentially go from bad to worse in Afghanistan but the whole Afghan thing could just as easily drift off the American political radar quite quickly.

    If the US get all or virtually American citizens and a good proportion of their Afghan aides out by 31 August and exit as per Biden's plan, and if the Taliban avoid committing any major atrocities, a lot of this could be very old news by the end of the year and a non-issue by 2024. Indeed, it's still possible that BIden could come out of this looking quite strong by September.

    None of the above is certain but equally I think it more likely than not - which makes Biden a 60% chance of getting the nomination and >40% chance of winning imo.

    (None of which is to diminish the awfulness of the way this Afghan exit has been managed.)

    I agree @4/1, Biden is value
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 18,366

    GIN1138 said:

    pigeon said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Business leaders call for relaxation of post-Brexit visa rules as predictions over exodus of EU workers in low paid jobs realised. Worst supply chain crisis since 70s say industry chiefs https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/25/business-leaders-call-for-relaxation-of-post-brexit-visa-rules?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    I had my first "supply chain" issue today when I couldn't buy Bisto gravy granules at the CO! :open_mouth:
    Shortage of diced chicken in convenient-sized packets in Tesco.

    It's devastating, but somehow I shall survive.
    Thankfully there's always an alternative. As I couldn't get Bisto Gravy Granules I brought Maxwell Bleedin' House instead... ;)
    Black coffee is a gravy substitute?

    It is if you're Uncle Albert :smiley:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2WlAHojl90
  • pingping Posts: 1,429
    Incredible tip from @isam

    I didn’t get on it myself, sadly
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,932
    dixiedean said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Biden is an awful President who should never have won a primary let alone an election.

    Still infinitely better than Trump. But the Democrats need to think hard on the primaries for 2024 or the GOP really will have an easy ride then (so long as they don't choose Trump again).

    Only Biden could have beaten Trump imho.

    That was his one last job.
    I think the problem (and I’ve said this before) come aback to the lack of profile among Democratic candidates. All three of Obama’s two Secretaries of State and vice-President were in their 60s/70s in 2016. There were simply no younger candidates forcing their way through. Of those three, apart from age, Kerry was already a failed candidate and Hilary Clinton was incredibly divisive. That left Biden carrying the torch. And he did it very well - he said all the right things - but he’s not showing what’s needed now to sort things out.

    Somewhere, a younger candidate in their fifties should have been brought forward, perhaps by Biden or Kerry resigning and being replaced by somebody younger, somebody being groomed for the succession. Bad oversight by Obama that he didn’t do it.
    It is striking how US voters are willing to tolerate candidates way beyond the age at which most European countries would look for someone with a bit more energy.

    I really don’t know whether the US clings onto some excessive respect for those with decades of experience, or whether the $-driven nature of US politics makes it difficult to get to the top of the greasy pole without decades of greasing the right palms and dispensing the right pork.
    Biden is the second oldest living President. The third being Trump. Clinton, Bush and Obama are all younger than both of them.
    So clearly it wasn't always so.
    I think it’s because Clinton, H torched her potential rivals.

    You were either loyal to her or you were cast into the outer darkness

    It means there are relatively few presidential-grade democrats in their 50s and 60s
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,837
    xyz
    ping said:

    I think having Biden as low as 20% for WH2024 is a major, if entirely predictable, overreaction to current news by the betting markets.

    Sure, things could potentially go from bad to worse in Afghanistan but the whole Afghan thing could just as easily drift off the American political radar quite quickly.

    If the US get all or virtually American citizens and a good proportion of their Afghan aides out by 31 August and exit as per Biden's plan, and if the Taliban avoid committing any major atrocities, a lot of this could be very old news by the end of the year and a non-issue by 2024. Indeed, it's still possible that BIden could come out of this looking quite strong by September.

    None of the above is certain but equally I think it more likely than not - which makes Biden a 60% chance of getting the nomination and >40% chance of winning imo.

    (None of which is to diminish the awfulness of the way this Afghan exit has been managed.)

    I agree @4/1, Biden is value
    Naah. Lorra, lorra ifs there, and the man's marble count is visibly dropping day to day.
  • isamisam Posts: 38,550
    Scott_xP said:

    Business leaders call for relaxation of post-Brexit visa rules as predictions over exodus of EU workers in low paid jobs realised. Worst supply chain crisis since 70s say industry chiefs https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/aug/25/business-leaders-call-for-relaxation-of-post-brexit-visa-rules?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    You don’t say?!?!

    That’s the reason they were all behind Remain - they want to pay Eastern Europeans minimum wage to do hard graft/unsociable jobs! Stuart Rose let it slip didn’t he? Wages will go up if we leave.

    They’ve been basically arbing the European and UK Labour markets for 15 years and are upset it’s all over. Who wouldn’t be?!

    Time to pay up, big business leaders - use the money you’ve saved since 2004
  • isamisam Posts: 38,550
    edited August 25
    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I had my first "supply chain" issue today when I couldn't buy Bisto gravy granules at the CO! :open_mouth:

    The lads will be along shortly to explain why you're wrong.

    You must have imagined it...
    PB Herd = see no empty shelves, hear no empty shelves, say no empty shelves, ra ra ra, god save Mrs Sachsen Coborg und Gotha.
    In fairness, empty shelves can only be reported from personal experience (as distinct from rumours circulating in newspapers) if there are empty shelves for one to experience in the first place.

    So far I've encountered a minor poultry shortage, and my favourite brand of cereal snack bar-type things for work is apparently out of stock until an estimated delivery date of September 1st. Slightly irritating, but it's not exactly a return to the dark days of the March 2020 panic buying phenomenon.
    I can’t help it if the only empty shelves I’ve seen in Upminster/Hornchurch are sparkling water in Waitrose. Maybe we’ve just been lucky

    Maybe the Stones song of the today is ‘You can’t Always Get What You Want’!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 26,227
    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I had my first "supply chain" issue today when I couldn't buy Bisto gravy granules at the CO! :open_mouth:

    The lads will be along shortly to explain why you're wrong.

    You must have imagined it...
    PB Herd = see no empty shelves, hear no empty shelves, say no empty shelves, ra ra ra, god save Mrs Sachsen Coborg und Gotha.
    In fairness, empty shelves can only be reported from personal experience (as distinct from rumours circulating in newspapers) if there are empty shelves for one to experience in the first place.

    So far I've encountered a minor poultry shortage, and my favourite brand of cereal snack bar-type things for work is apparently out of stock until an estimated delivery date of September 1st. Slightly irritating, but it's not exactly a return to the dark days of the March 2020 panic buying phenomenon.
    Well, following on from the conversation this morning, I have another shortage to report. We called in at McDonalds this evening, our first visit for over eighteen months. The little 'un was very excited. There were no bottled drinks to be had at all - so I guess the McD shortage story is anecdotally true.

    And you know what? That burger tasted wonderful. I know it's [email protected] food, and home-made burgers are healthier and tastier, but absence makes the heart grow fonder. I loved it. But if I were to have another one tomorrow, I wouldn't feel the same way about it.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 908

    pigeon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Yesterday I took the two lines into town just after rush hour and home again at the tail end, with most seats taken but only one or two standing for the most part, I'd say the vast majority were wearing masks, and mostly but not always covering mouth and nose.

    In London on holiday last week and mask wearing 60% at best on the tube. No attempts observed to encourage compliance.
    Of course nobody's trying to enforce it. With that many passengers and such a large proportion refusing, how would they go about making a reasonable attempt to do so?
    It was merely a comment on an observation, not suggesting they should. What irritates me is pontificating politicians such as Sadiq Khan making it a Condition of Carriage knowing he isn't able to follow through. This just brings authority into disrepute. Mind you, he's not unique in that.
    Yeah sorry, I wasn't having a go, I got what you meant. And I entirely agree that imposing regulations that are basically unenforceable (or inflicted at random upon small numbers of individuals who are unlucky enough to get picked upon) merely serves to bring the law/the authorities into needless disrepute.

    There's been a lot of that during Covid: we ought not to forget in a hurry when people were persecuted for taking a walk whilst daring to sip a cup of coffee, or for sitting on a park bench.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 34,932
    Omnium said:

    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Biden is an awful President who should never have won a primary let alone an election.

    Still infinitely better than Trump. But the Democrats need to think hard on the primaries for 2024 or the GOP really will have an easy ride then (so long as they don't choose Trump again).

    Only Biden could have beaten Trump imho.

    That was his one last job.
    I think the problem (and I’ve said this before) come aback to the lack of profile among Democratic candidates. All three of Obama’s two Secretaries of State and vice-President were in their 60s/70s in 2016. There were simply no younger candidates forcing their way through. Of those three, apart from age, Kerry was already a failed candidate and Hilary Clinton was incredibly divisive. That left Biden carrying the torch. And he did it very well - he said all the right things - but he’s not showing what’s needed now to sort things out.

    Somewhere, a younger candidate in their fifties should have been brought forward, perhaps by Biden or Kerry resigning and being replaced by somebody younger, somebody being groomed for the succession. Bad oversight by Obama that he didn’t do it.
    It is striking how US voters are willing to tolerate candidates way beyond the age at which most European countries would look for someone with a bit more energy.

    I really don’t know whether the US clings onto some excessive respect for those with decades of experience, or whether the $-driven nature of US politics makes it difficult to get to the top of the greasy pole without decades of greasing the right palms and dispensing the right pork.
    Oldest PMs by age of departure from office

    Gladstone 84
    Palmerston 80
    Churchill 80
    Disraeli 75
    Lord John Russell 73
    Lord Salisbury 72
    Campbell Bannerman 71
    Neville Chamberlain 71
    The Duke of Portland 71
    Lord Aberdeen 71
    Earl Grey 70

    It is to my mind rather striking that only one of those was elected via a general election in the age of universal suffrage.

    Equally, of course, Palmerston probably would have won elections under any franchise even in his seventies.

    (And to be controversial, Chamberlain would easily have won an election in October 1938, although fortunately he had more sense than to call one.)
    You'd probably want to lop off about 5 years to their modern equivalents. Some of these were awful.
    No really awful ones. Russell and Campbell Bannermann weren’t great. Chamberlain had a lot of potential but was found wanting against a v tough test
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 12,889
    edited August 25
    ydoethur said:

    IanB2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Biden is an awful President who should never have won a primary let alone an election.

    Still infinitely better than Trump. But the Democrats need to think hard on the primaries for 2024 or the GOP really will have an easy ride then (so long as they don't choose Trump again).

    Only Biden could have beaten Trump imho.

    That was his one last job.
    I think the problem (and I’ve said this before) come aback to the lack of profile among Democratic candidates. All three of Obama’s two Secretaries of State and vice-President were in their 60s/70s in 2016. There were simply no younger candidates forcing their way through. Of those three, apart from age, Kerry was already a failed candidate and Hilary Clinton was incredibly divisive. That left Biden carrying the torch. And he did it very well - he said all the right things - but he’s not showing what’s needed now to sort things out.

    Somewhere, a younger candidate in their fifties should have been brought forward, perhaps by Biden or Kerry resigning and being replaced by somebody younger, somebody being groomed for the succession. Bad oversight by Obama that he didn’t do it.
    It is striking how US voters are willing to tolerate candidates way beyond the age at which most European countries would look for someone with a bit more energy.

    I really don’t know whether the US clings onto some excessive respect for those with decades of experience, or whether the $-driven nature of US politics makes it difficult to get to the top of the greasy pole without decades of greasing the right palms and dispensing the right pork.
    Oldest PMs by age of departure from office

    Gladstone 84
    Palmerston 80
    Churchill 80
    Disraeli 75
    Lord John Russell 73
    Lord Salisbury 72
    Campbell Bannerman 71
    Neville Chamberlain 71
    The Duke of Portland 71
    Lord Aberdeen 71
    Earl Grey 70

    It is to my mind rather striking that only one of those was elected via a general election in the age of universal suffrage.

    Equally, of course, Palmerston probably would have won elections under any franchise even in his seventies.

    (And to be controversial, Chamberlain would easily have won an election in October 1938, although fortunately he had more sense than to call one.)
    The big one - in my view the greatest post-War Western leader of them all, Konrad Adenauer became Federal Chancellor of Germany at, I think, 74 years old and went on for another 13 years.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 52,030
    Demolition job on Labour "holding the government to account" on Afghanistan:

    Yesterday, Matt Chorley said shadow foreign secretary Lisa Nandy had never mentioned Afghanistan in the House of Commons until last week.

    He now admits he got it wrong... it's actually a lot worse than that.

    @MattChorley


    https://twitter.com/TimesRadio/status/1430473447210115076?s=20
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 9,837

    pigeon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    GIN1138 said:

    I had my first "supply chain" issue today when I couldn't buy Bisto gravy granules at the CO! :open_mouth:

    The lads will be along shortly to explain why you're wrong.

    You must have imagined it...
    PB Herd = see no empty shelves, hear no empty shelves, say no empty shelves, ra ra ra, god save Mrs Sachsen Coborg und Gotha.
    In fairness, empty shelves can only be reported from personal experience (as distinct from rumours circulating in newspapers) if there are empty shelves for one to experience in the first place.

    So far I've encountered a minor poultry shortage, and my favourite brand of cereal snack bar-type things for work is apparently out of stock until an estimated delivery date of September 1st. Slightly irritating, but it's not exactly a return to the dark days of the March 2020 panic buying phenomenon.
    Well, following on from the conversation this morning, I have another shortage to report. We called in at McDonalds this evening, our first visit for over eighteen months. The little 'un was very excited. There were no bottled drinks to be had at all - so I guess the McD shortage story is anecdotally true.

    And you know what? That burger tasted wonderful. I know it's [email protected] food, and home-made burgers are healthier and tastier, but absence makes the heart grow fonder. I loved it. But if I were to have another one tomorrow, I wouldn't feel the same way about it.
    Is it that crap? You wouldn't say that of home cooked spaghetti bol, presumably, which is about the same combination of minced beef, white flour and slightly dubious veg. And it is, as you say, delicious.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 6,638

    TOPPING said:

    Mask wearing on the tube is dropping I would say.

    Yesterday I took the two lines into town just after rush hour and home again at the tail end, with most seats taken but only one or two standing for the most part, I'd say the vast majority were wearing masks, and mostly but not always covering mouth and nose.

    My observation on this topic - District Line (spacious walk through carriages, lots of space) mask wearing 80%+. Central Line (ancient crowded trains, standing room only) 50% masks tops. Dropping in both cases though.
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