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The “Crisis What Crisis” immersive theatrical experience – politicalbetting.com

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  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    You have to wonder how much more laziness and incompetence the Tory membership and backbenchers are going to put up with. It's just one Cabinet shambles after another.

    Coming next: back to school mess.

    Once again the thoughts of Tissue Price would be welcome here.

    Imagine working so hard to get elected, to find yourself supporting the most incompetent Government in living memory...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Really really bad things are happening in Kabul now

    ‘A report written by the Norwegian Center for Global Analyses said militants were also screening people on the way to Kabul airport.

    “They are targeting the families of those who refuse to give themselves up, and prosecuting and punishing their families ‘according to sharia law’,” said Christian Nellemann, the group’s executive director.

    “We expect both individuals previously working with Nato/US forces and their allies, along with their family members, to be exposed to torture and executions.”’


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/20/afghanistan-reports-of-torture-and-killing-contradict-taliban-promises?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Meanwhile the press and Scott P blather on about Dominic Raab’s phone call from Cyprus because he was a Brexiteer

    It is quite pathetic

    https://news.sky.com/story/afghanistan-ministers-accused-of-ignoring-warning-from-influential-house-of-lords-committee-12385551

    It's about much more than phone calls. Sheer murderous laziness from Johnson and his sidekick.
    A point I've made several times over the last couple of days.
    The (lengthy) report is here:
    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld5801/ldselect/ldintrel/208/20804.htm

    Bearing in mind the standards of polite discourse which govern the Lords, this is equivalent of calling ministers a bunch of irresponsible and useless f*cktards.
    "We were disappointed by the lack of analysis of the implications of the planned US withdrawal from Afghanistan provided by ministers in their evidence..."
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I believe there is a reasonable chance the West will have to go back in to Afghanistan - or do air strikes, such is the fearful chaos and terror we have stupidly unleashed

    ‘Nothing to see here, just one of #America's most-wanted terrorists, Khalil Haqqani, on the streets of #Kabul today.

    There's a $5 million bounty on his head -- hopefully we're keeping an eye on him "over the horizon."’

    https://twitter.com/charles_lister/status/1428736110155505671?s=21

    Nice gear his bodyguards have....i presume American stash.
    Joe Biden has done the stupidest thing in history. Out-stupiding Donald Trump. An immense tragedy
    Indeed, if not THE most stupid it certainly is up there. Out-stupiding Donald Trump as you put it is a quite remarkable achievement that most would not wish to have on their CV.
    Biden should resign for this. It is that bad. He won’t. But he should

    Trump should be violently erased from written history like the mad pharaoh Akhenaten

    I’ve never seen an unforced calamity like the Afghanistan withdrawal. Iraq was enormous and horrific but it evolved over years. This is days. Hideous intense days
    I agree. America has squandered it's global leadership, and we have squandered our influence by having a clown as PM. The dictators of Moscow and Beijing must be rubbing their hands at the stupidity of Washington and London.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    Scott_xP said:

    You have to wonder how much more laziness and incompetence the Tory membership and backbenchers are going to put up with. It's just one Cabinet shambles after another.

    Coming next: back to school mess.

    Once again the thoughts of Tissue Price would be welcome here.

    Imagine working so hard to get elected, to find yourself supporting the most incompetent Government in living memory...
    Hyperbole
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2021

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I believe there is a reasonable chance the West will have to go back in to Afghanistan - or do air strikes, such is the fearful chaos and terror we have stupidly unleashed

    ‘Nothing to see here, just one of #America's most-wanted terrorists, Khalil Haqqani, on the streets of #Kabul today.

    There's a $5 million bounty on his head -- hopefully we're keeping an eye on him "over the horizon."’

    https://twitter.com/charles_lister/status/1428736110155505671?s=21

    Nice gear his bodyguards have....i presume American stash.
    Joe Biden has done the stupidest thing in history. Out-stupiding Donald Trump. An immense tragedy
    Indeed, if not THE most stupid it certainly is up there. Out-stupiding Donald Trump as you put it is a quite remarkable achievement that most would not wish to have on their CV.
    Biden should resign for this. It is that bad. He won’t. But he should

    Trump should be violently erased from written history like the mad pharaoh Akhenaten

    I’ve never seen an unforced calamity like the Afghanistan withdrawal. Iraq was enormous and horrific but it evolved over years. This is days. Hideous intense days
    I agree. America has squandered it's global leadership, and we have squandered our influence by having a clown as PM. The dictators of Moscow and Beijing must be rubbing their hands at the stupidity of Washington and London.
    Ironically as I said earlier the strongest western leader at the moment is probably Macron, certainly in terms of foreign policy.

    The leader of the free world is now effectively the President of France for the foreseeable future
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I believe there is a reasonable chance the West will have to go back in to Afghanistan - or do air strikes, such is the fearful chaos and terror we have stupidly unleashed

    ‘Nothing to see here, just one of #America's most-wanted terrorists, Khalil Haqqani, on the streets of #Kabul today.

    There's a $5 million bounty on his head -- hopefully we're keeping an eye on him "over the horizon."’

    https://twitter.com/charles_lister/status/1428736110155505671?s=21

    Nice gear his bodyguards have....i presume American stash.
    Joe Biden has done the stupidest thing in history. Out-stupiding Donald Trump. An immense tragedy
    Indeed, if not THE most stupid it certainly is up there. Out-stupiding Donald Trump as you put it is a quite remarkable achievement that most would not wish to have on their CV.
    Trump should be violently erased from written history like the mad pharaoh Akhenaten
    But...then how do we know about him?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Scott_xP said:

    You have to wonder how much more laziness and incompetence the Tory membership and backbenchers are going to put up with. It's just one Cabinet shambles after another.

    Coming next: back to school mess.

    Once again the thoughts of Tissue Price would be welcome here.

    Imagine working so hard to get elected, to find yourself supporting the most incompetent Government in living memory...
    Hyperbole
    Perhaps, but I struggle to think of a more hapless and chaotic PM in my lifetime. He makes Mrs May and Gordon Brown look like paragons of efficient and orderly government.
  • Sydney lockdown extended to the end of September
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507
    Scott_xP said:

    a USAF globemaster appears to have left a few minutes ago. an RAF one left about 10am our time.

    Evacuation flights out of Kabul now paused https://twitter.com/katesullivandc/status/1428747784283467779
    Turkish air force Hercules just taken off. maybe they aren't evacuation flights. maybe twitter has people who don't tell the truth.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287

    Scott_xP said:

    a USAF globemaster appears to have left a few minutes ago. an RAF one left about 10am our time.

    Evacuation flights out of Kabul now paused https://twitter.com/katesullivandc/status/1428747784283467779
    Turkish air force Hercules just taken off. maybe they aren't evacuation flights. maybe twitter has people who don't tell the truth.
    It’s American flights which have paused. Because their evacuation facilities in Doha are full.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I believe there is a reasonable chance the West will have to go back in to Afghanistan - or do air strikes, such is the fearful chaos and terror we have stupidly unleashed

    ‘Nothing to see here, just one of #America's most-wanted terrorists, Khalil Haqqani, on the streets of #Kabul today.

    There's a $5 million bounty on his head -- hopefully we're keeping an eye on him "over the horizon."’

    https://twitter.com/charles_lister/status/1428736110155505671?s=21

    Nice gear his bodyguards have....i presume American stash.
    Joe Biden has done the stupidest thing in history. Out-stupiding Donald Trump. An immense tragedy
    Indeed, if not THE most stupid it certainly is up there. Out-stupiding Donald Trump as you put it is a quite remarkable achievement that most would not wish to have on their CV.
    Biden should resign for this. It is that bad. He won’t. But he should

    Trump should be violently erased from written history like the mad pharaoh Akhenaten

    I’ve never seen an unforced calamity like the Afghanistan withdrawal. Iraq was enormous and horrific but it evolved over years. This is days. Hideous intense days
    I agree. America has squandered it's global leadership, and we have squandered our influence by having a clown as PM. The dictators of Moscow and Beijing must be rubbing their hands at the stupidity of Washington and London.
    Ironically as I said earlier the strongest western leader at the moment is probably Macron, certainly in terms of foreign policy.

    The leader of the free world is now effectively the President of France for the foreseeable future
    You may well be right, but that doesn't bode well.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Dura_Ace said:

    This site is going to be absolutely lit the weekend Taiwan falls.

    On current form Westminster and Whitehall will wake up when the five starred red flag is fluttering from the Eiffel tower.
    It's already in the Raabster's office!


    He really has been dozing.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,039
    edited August 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    a USAF globemaster appears to have left a few minutes ago. an RAF one left about 10am our time.

    Evacuation flights out of Kabul now paused https://twitter.com/katesullivandc/status/1428747784283467779
    Turkish air force Hercules just taken off. maybe they aren't evacuation flights. maybe twitter has people who don't tell the truth.
    Sky report just now said another flight had just taken off

    And Biden to address the US within the hour
  • IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Really really bad things are happening in Kabul now

    ‘A report written by the Norwegian Center for Global Analyses said militants were also screening people on the way to Kabul airport.

    “They are targeting the families of those who refuse to give themselves up, and prosecuting and punishing their families ‘according to sharia law’,” said Christian Nellemann, the group’s executive director.

    “We expect both individuals previously working with Nato/US forces and their allies, along with their family members, to be exposed to torture and executions.”’


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/20/afghanistan-reports-of-torture-and-killing-contradict-taliban-promises?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Meanwhile the press and Scott P blather on about Dominic Raab’s phone call from Cyprus because he was a Brexiteer

    It is quite pathetic

    https://news.sky.com/story/afghanistan-ministers-accused-of-ignoring-warning-from-influential-house-of-lords-committee-12385551

    It's about much more than phone calls. Sheer murderous laziness from Johnson and his sidekick.
    You have to wonder how much more laziness and incompetence the Tory membership and backbenchers are going to put up with. It's just one Cabinet shambles after another.

    Coming next: back to school mess.
    Two possibilities that are consistent with what we've seen so far.

    One is that each cockup causes a few more Conservative supporters to wander off. Everyone has some breaking point where they think "Boris... what a [insert rude word of choice here]". It's what happened through most of 2020 and seems to have kicked in again (albeit after a Brexit done / Vaccines delivered / Vaccine War bounce in-between). If that keeps happening, the gentle deflation of government support (too small to see poll to poll) will continue but add up to quite a lot over a year.

    The other is that there's a hardish floor for Conservative support at about 40%, which might be characterised as "Brexit is still in peril and only Boris will defend it".

    Question is- which model wins when they push against each other. Exciting, isn't it?
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786

    Scott_xP said:

    You have to wonder how much more laziness and incompetence the Tory membership and backbenchers are going to put up with. It's just one Cabinet shambles after another.

    Coming next: back to school mess.

    Once again the thoughts of Tissue Price would be welcome here.

    Imagine working so hard to get elected, to find yourself supporting the most incompetent Government in living memory...
    Hyperbole
    @squareroot2 see my post to you on last thread re FAS.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    ‘NEW: there was a stop in evacuation flights overnight because of the need to find receiving facilities to house evacuees from #afghanistan, since Doha has reached capacity.

    As reported below, flights should resume and start flying to Bahrain this afternoon. ‘


    https://twitter.com/eenaruffini/status/1428715951185334280?s=21
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited August 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    You have to wonder how much more laziness and incompetence the Tory membership and backbenchers are going to put up with. It's just one Cabinet shambles after another.

    Coming next: back to school mess.

    Once again the thoughts of Tissue Price would be welcome here.

    Imagine working so hard to get elected, to find yourself supporting the most incompetent Government in living memory...
    Hyperbole
    Perhaps, but I struggle to think of a more hapless and chaotic PM in my lifetime. He makes Mrs May and Gordon Brown look like paragons of efficient and orderly government.
    It has been quite chaotic, agreed. But I'd say implementing Brexit, dealing with the pandemic, then the sudden withdrawal from Afghanistan are three quite tricky things to have to deal with in two years as PM, especially in your first two years. We have evidence that Theresa May was quite chaotic in dealing with one of those matters, and she left it in a worse. more chaotic stare than she found it (much as I think her deal should have been voted through and it wasn't her fault).
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Scott_xP said:

    More effort has been put into saving Raab's job than was put into saving Afghans

    Very true. Tories really plumbing the depths.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Scott_xP said:

    More effort has been put into saving Raab's job than was put into saving Afghans

    Very true. Tories really plumbing the depths.
    They certainly are. That said they haven't had any former leader referred to as a "bully and a sex pest" by a QC.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    If I remember correctly, the LibDems lost all the support money between 2010 and 2015 through being in coalition. Then they lost it after 2015 anyway.
    Couldn’t have happened to a more deserving bunch. The LibDem cohort of 2010 was an absolute disgrace, almost to a man.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    isam said:

    Scott_xP said:

    You have to wonder how much more laziness and incompetence the Tory membership and backbenchers are going to put up with. It's just one Cabinet shambles after another.

    Coming next: back to school mess.

    Once again the thoughts of Tissue Price would be welcome here.

    Imagine working so hard to get elected, to find yourself supporting the most incompetent Government in living memory...
    Hyperbole
    Perhaps, but I struggle to think of a more hapless and chaotic PM in my lifetime. He makes Mrs May and Gordon Brown look like paragons of efficient and orderly government.
    It has been quite chaotic, agreed. But I'd say implementing Brexit, dealing with the pandemic, then the sudden withdrawal from Afghanistan are three quite tricky things to have to deal with in two years as PM, especially in your first two years. We have evidence that Theresa May was quite chaotic in dealing with one of those matters, and she left it in a worse. more chaotic stare than she found it (much as I think her deal should have been voted through and it wasn't her fault).
    "dealing with the pandemic"? Hmmm, OK!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Lots of criticism for President Biden not taking questions from the press in recent days. Worth noting neither the PM nor the Foreign Secretary have done a full sit down interview since this crisis started.
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1428755578751442954
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,750
    Anyone commented on this yet?

    "The SNP and Scottish Greens have published details of their new power sharing arrangement.

    "The deal will take the Greens into government for the first time anywhere in the UK.

    "It includes a commitment to hold a referendum on Scottish independence within the next five years, and preferably by the end of 2023.

    "First Minister Nicola Sturgeon gave details at a briefing alongside the two Scottish Greens co-leaders.

    "Opposition parties have described the arrangement as a "nationalist coalition of chaos" that will be a "disaster" for Scotland."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-58272209

    Marks quite a sea-change from the Salmond approach which was to keep business onside and to appeal to both left and right as much as possible.

    The Scottish Greens are a red rag to the business community and uninhibitedly far-left on every front so far as I can see.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    Rain falls at summit of Greenland's ice sheet for first time in recorded history
    An Arctic research station, which is located 10,551ft above sea level, saw above-freezing temperatures for more than nine hours for the third time in less than a decade.

    https://news.sky.com/story/amp/rain-falls-at-summit-of-greenlands-ice-sheet-for-first-time-in-recorded-history-12386031

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Sturgeon and the Greens kick indyref2 into the long grass.

    Only commit to hold one 'within the next 5 years' and set the end of 2023 as an aspiration ie probably past the next UK general election which is likely to be in 2023 or at the latest by the end of 2024
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    I believe there is a reasonable chance the West will have to go back in to Afghanistan - or do air strikes, such is the fearful chaos and terror we have stupidly unleashed

    ‘Nothing to see here, just one of #America's most-wanted terrorists, Khalil Haqqani, on the streets of #Kabul today.

    There's a $5 million bounty on his head -- hopefully we're keeping an eye on him "over the horizon."’

    https://twitter.com/charles_lister/status/1428736110155505671?s=21

    Nice gear his bodyguards have....i presume American stash.
    Joe Biden has done the stupidest thing in history. Out-stupiding Donald Trump. An immense tragedy
    Indeed, if not THE most stupid it certainly is up there. Out-stupiding Donald Trump as you put it is a quite remarkable achievement that most would not wish to have on their CV.
    Trump should be violently erased from written history like the mad pharaoh Akhenaten
    But...then how do we know about him?
    It would be as blissful an ignorance as could ever be possible.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Scott_xP said:

    Lots of criticism for President Biden not taking questions from the press in recent days. Worth noting neither the PM nor the Foreign Secretary have done a full sit down interview since this crisis started.
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1428755578751442954

    There are plenty of grounds to criticise Biden (or indeed our government).
    While the crisis is ongoing, this is hardly one of them.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    BoZo has full confidence in Raab.

    Like he did with Hancock.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Lots of criticism for President Biden not taking questions from the press in recent days. Worth noting neither the PM nor the Foreign Secretary have done a full sit down interview since this crisis started.
    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1428755578751442954

    There are plenty of grounds to criticise Biden (or indeed our government).
    While the crisis is ongoing, this is hardly one of them.
    Especially since Boris has faced Parliament.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    HYUFD said:

    Sturgeon and the Greens kick indyref2 into the long grass.

    Only commit to hold one 'within the next 5 years' and set the end of 2023 as an aspiration ie probably past the next UK general election which is likely to be in 2023 or at the latest by the end of 2024

    They know, that as @Big_G_NorthWales said on a previous thread, they will have a legal challenge not from HMG but anyone who wants to stop their illegal referendum, when the Scottish people voted in 2014 for a "once in a life time" referendum to keep such powers in Westminster.

    There should be quite a few people in Scotland who will be happy to put their name to the legal action.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287

    Anyone commented on this yet?

    "The SNP and Scottish Greens have published details of their new power sharing arrangement.

    "The deal will take the Greens into government for the first time anywhere in the UK.

    "It includes a commitment to hold a referendum on Scottish independence within the next five years, and preferably by the end of 2023.

    "First Minister Nicola Sturgeon gave details at a briefing alongside the two Scottish Greens co-leaders.

    "Opposition parties have described the arrangement as a "nationalist coalition of chaos" that will be a "disaster" for Scotland."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-58272209

    Marks quite a sea-change from the Salmond approach which was to keep business onside and to appeal to both left and right as much as possible.

    The Scottish Greens are a red rag to the business community and uninhibitedly far-left on every front so far as I can see.

    Lol. ‘The next five years’ is completely meaningless as it presumably goes past the next Holyrood election. It’s as empty a promise as a political party can make without being laughed to scorn

    This is Sturgeon admitting: it’s not going to happen.

    The next Indyref vote recedes ever further into the distance. I used to think late 2020s. 2029? Now I think maybe post-2030
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited August 2021

    IshmaelZ said:

    Leon said:

    Really really bad things are happening in Kabul now

    ‘A report written by the Norwegian Center for Global Analyses said militants were also screening people on the way to Kabul airport.

    “They are targeting the families of those who refuse to give themselves up, and prosecuting and punishing their families ‘according to sharia law’,” said Christian Nellemann, the group’s executive director.

    “We expect both individuals previously working with Nato/US forces and their allies, along with their family members, to be exposed to torture and executions.”’


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/20/afghanistan-reports-of-torture-and-killing-contradict-taliban-promises?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

    Meanwhile the press and Scott P blather on about Dominic Raab’s phone call from Cyprus because he was a Brexiteer

    It is quite pathetic

    https://news.sky.com/story/afghanistan-ministers-accused-of-ignoring-warning-from-influential-house-of-lords-committee-12385551

    It's about much more than phone calls. Sheer murderous laziness from Johnson and his sidekick.
    You have to wonder how much more laziness and incompetence the Tory membership and backbenchers are going to put up with. It's just one Cabinet shambles after another.

    Coming next: back to school mess.
    “a war begun for no wise purpose, carried on with a strange mixture of rashness and timidity, brought to a close after suffering and disaster, without much glory attached either to the government which directed, or the great body of troops which waged it. Not one benefit, political or military, was acquired with this war. Our eventual evacuation of the country resembled the retreat of an army defeated” (GR Gleig, 1843).
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    Neil Warnock admitted “the majority” of his Middlesbrough squad had declined invitations to be injected.

    An NFL player has had covid twice and still won't get vaccinated.

    There are clearly a lot of these sorts of people about, and not just at football clubs. This from Sky News:

    Professor Chris Whitty said it is "stark" that the majority of COVID patients he saw over a month working on a hospital COVID ward had not had a jab.

    New figures from Public Health England (PHE) show that 55% people in hospital with the Delta variant - which is dominant in the UK - have not been jabbed.

    The data also shows that 74% of people under 50 in hospital with the variant have not been vaccinated.

    Almost two-thirds of people in the same age group who died in England with the Delta variant were not vaccinated against the virus, the figures show.

    Prof Whitty tweeted: "The great majority of adults have been vaccinated.

    "Four weeks working on a COVID ward makes stark the reality that the majority of our hospitalised COVID patients are unvaccinated and regret delaying. Some are very sick including young adults.

    "Please don't delay your vaccine."

    Almost three million young adults have not had a first dose, according to official figures published earlier this week.


    So, even given the present circumstances, where nearly 90% of adults have had at least one Covid vaccination, over half of all Covid patients in UK hospitals are unvaccinated. Of people under 50 in hospital with Covid, three-quarters had not received the vaccine.

    It is therefore evident that the ongoing burden of Covid illness being placed upon the healthcare system is primarily the fault of those who have deliberately refused vaccination or can't be bothered to have it. Unfortunately I can't find data on the numbers of people who can't have it on medical grounds, but I personally know two clinically extremely vulnerable, immunocompromised people (one with systemic lupus, the other with a primary immunodeficiency disorder) who have nonetheless been able to tolerate the vaccine. So I strongly suspect that the numbers remaining unvaccinated on medical advice are very small indeed.

    It really makes you wonder why it is that it was deemed acceptable, through repeated phases of restrictions and outright lockdowns, to strip the entire population of its liberties to control this disease, but yet it's considered some sort of gross violation of human rights to target the vaccine holdouts who insist through stubbornness or neglect on clogging up the healthcare system, to the detriment of everyone else, and placing us at heightened risk of a renewal of restrictions when the weather gets worse later in the year. They're free to go wandering around amongst the rest of us, and when they start gasping for breath they get prioritised for care ahead of everyone else.

    It's hard to avoid the conclusion that Macron is onto something. Why shouldn't the lives of anti-vaxxers be made difficult?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839
    Well, I must say, I'm shocked.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    pigeon said:

    Neil Warnock admitted “the majority” of his Middlesbrough squad had declined invitations to be injected.

    An NFL player has had covid twice and still won't get vaccinated.

    There are clearly a lot of these sorts of people about, and not just at football clubs. This from Sky News:

    Professor Chris Whitty said it is "stark" that the majority of COVID patients he saw over a month working on a hospital COVID ward had not had a jab.

    New figures from Public Health England (PHE) show that 55% people in hospital with the Delta variant - which is dominant in the UK - have not been jabbed.

    The data also shows that 74% of people under 50 in hospital with the variant have not been vaccinated.

    Almost two-thirds of people in the same age group who died in England with the Delta variant were not vaccinated against the virus, the figures show.

    Prof Whitty tweeted: "The great majority of adults have been vaccinated.

    "Four weeks working on a COVID ward makes stark the reality that the majority of our hospitalised COVID patients are unvaccinated and regret delaying. Some are very sick including young adults.

    "Please don't delay your vaccine."

    Almost three million young adults have not had a first dose, according to official figures published earlier this week.


    So, even given the present circumstances, where nearly 90% of adults have had at least one Covid vaccination, over half of all Covid patients in UK hospitals are unvaccinated. Of people under 50 in hospital with Covid, three-quarters had not received the vaccine.

    It is therefore evident that the ongoing burden of Covid illness being placed upon the healthcare system is primarily the fault of those who have deliberately refused vaccination or can't be bothered to have it. Unfortunately I can't find data on the numbers of people who can't have it on medical grounds, but I personally know two clinically extremely vulnerable, immunocompromised people (one with systemic lupus, the other with a primary immunodeficiency disorder) who have nonetheless been able to tolerate the vaccine. So I strongly suspect that the numbers remaining unvaccinated on medical advice are very small indeed.

    It really makes you wonder why it is that it was deemed acceptable, through repeated phases of restrictions and outright lockdowns, to strip the entire population of its liberties to control this disease, but yet it's considered some sort of gross violation of human rights to target the vaccine holdouts who insist through stubbornness or neglect on clogging up the healthcare system, to the detriment of everyone else, and placing us at heightened risk of a renewal of restrictions when the weather gets worse later in the year. They're free to go wandering around amongst the rest of us, and when they start gasping for breath they get prioritised for care ahead of everyone else.

    It's hard to avoid the conclusion that Macron is onto something. Why shouldn't the lives of anti-vaxxers be made difficult?
    It is an interesting moral conundrum. The balance of the liberty of some effecting the liberty of the majority. There probably does need to be a point at which those who refuse vaccination are told that going to a pub or restaurant is not a human right, and while choosing not to be vaccinated should be their right, they need to recognise that society has decide that there is a cost associated with that.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Mike going to take this crib sheet along, and propose a government of national unity to bring the legislation forward by a year ?

    Employment Act 1980
    • Encouraged secret ballots both on proposed industrial action and in electing union officials by making public funds available [sections 1-2]. This was superseded by the Trade Union Act 1984 and the Trade Union and Employment Rights Act 1993 which required secret ballots and withdrew public funding.
    • Limited the closed shop by protecting from dismissal workers who objected to union membership on grounds of conscience or other deeply held personal conviction [section 7]. Superseded by the Employment Act 1988 and the Employment Act 1990 which effectively outlawed closed shops.
    • Required all new closed shop agreements to be approved by at least 80% of those eligible to vote in a secret ballot [section 7(3)]. Superseded by the Employment Act 1988 and the Employment Act 1990 which effectively outlawed closed shops altogether.
    • Restricted lawful picketing to those attending at or near their own place of work [section 16]. A Code of Practice issued under the Act recommended that six pickets should be the normal limit.
    • Removed immunity from secondary action (including blacking) unless it was designed to put direct pressure on the employer in dispute by interfering with his business with his suppliers or customers [section 17].
    • Repealed the provisions of the Employment Protection Act 1975 which enabled independent trade unions to secure recognition for the purposes of collective bargaining. The Employment Relations Act 1999 [section 1 and Schedule 1] introduced a new statutory trade union recognition procedure which differs in many respects from that which operated under the 1975 Act. The new procedures came into force on 6 June 2000.

    I qualified in 2000. Back in the 70s and 80s being an employment lawyer, to the extent the discipline existed, generally involved dealing with union issues and collective disputes. I've not had an instruction on a single one since 2001.
    Presumably you mean 'one' as in 'collective dispute'? Surely there must have been issues where a union rep was involved in support, for instance a dismissal case?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,839

    Sydney lockdown extended to the end of September

    Will probably still be going at the end of the year.
  • MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    Scott_xP said:

    a USAF globemaster appears to have left a few minutes ago. an RAF one left about 10am our time.

    Evacuation flights out of Kabul now paused https://twitter.com/katesullivandc/status/1428747784283467779
    Turkish air force Hercules just taken off. maybe they aren't evacuation flights. maybe twitter has people who don't tell the truth.
    Sky report just now said another flight had just taken off

    And Biden to address the US within the hour
    I suspect a bit make and break for Biden here. He’s already given two public comments which have not gone down well and there are now calls for the full ABC transcript to be released. He’s going to have to pull it out of the bag on this one.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Mike going to take this crib sheet along, and propose a government of national unity to bring the legislation forward by a year ?

    Employment Act 1980
    • Encouraged secret ballots both on proposed industrial action and in electing union officials by making public funds available [sections 1-2]. This was superseded by the Trade Union Act 1984 and the Trade Union and Employment Rights Act 1993 which required secret ballots and withdrew public funding.
    • Limited the closed shop by protecting from dismissal workers who objected to union membership on grounds of conscience or other deeply held personal conviction [section 7]. Superseded by the Employment Act 1988 and the Employment Act 1990 which effectively outlawed closed shops.
    • Required all new closed shop agreements to be approved by at least 80% of those eligible to vote in a secret ballot [section 7(3)]. Superseded by the Employment Act 1988 and the Employment Act 1990 which effectively outlawed closed shops altogether.
    • Restricted lawful picketing to those attending at or near their own place of work [section 16]. A Code of Practice issued under the Act recommended that six pickets should be the normal limit.
    • Removed immunity from secondary action (including blacking) unless it was designed to put direct pressure on the employer in dispute by interfering with his business with his suppliers or customers [section 17].
    • Repealed the provisions of the Employment Protection Act 1975 which enabled independent trade unions to secure recognition for the purposes of collective bargaining. The Employment Relations Act 1999 [section 1 and Schedule 1] introduced a new statutory trade union recognition procedure which differs in many respects from that which operated under the 1975 Act. The new procedures came into force on 6 June 2000.

    I qualified in 2000. Back in the 70s and 80s being an employment lawyer, to the extent the discipline existed, generally involved dealing with union issues and collective disputes. I've not had an instruction on a single one since 2001.
    Presumably you mean 'one' as in 'collective dispute'? Surely there must have been issues where a union rep was involved in support, for instance a dismissal case?
    There have been but very few and none that have crossed my desk. The last bastion of the unions post Thatcher is in the public sector who instruct a narrow range of counsel. In the private sector where I work - practically nothing.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,838
    DougSeal said:

    Carnyx said:

    DougSeal said:

    Nigelb said:

    Is Mike going to take this crib sheet along, and propose a government of national unity to bring the legislation forward by a year ?

    Employment Act 1980
    • Encouraged secret ballots both on proposed industrial action and in electing union officials by making public funds available [sections 1-2]. This was superseded by the Trade Union Act 1984 and the Trade Union and Employment Rights Act 1993 which required secret ballots and withdrew public funding.
    • Limited the closed shop by protecting from dismissal workers who objected to union membership on grounds of conscience or other deeply held personal conviction [section 7]. Superseded by the Employment Act 1988 and the Employment Act 1990 which effectively outlawed closed shops.
    • Required all new closed shop agreements to be approved by at least 80% of those eligible to vote in a secret ballot [section 7(3)]. Superseded by the Employment Act 1988 and the Employment Act 1990 which effectively outlawed closed shops altogether.
    • Restricted lawful picketing to those attending at or near their own place of work [section 16]. A Code of Practice issued under the Act recommended that six pickets should be the normal limit.
    • Removed immunity from secondary action (including blacking) unless it was designed to put direct pressure on the employer in dispute by interfering with his business with his suppliers or customers [section 17].
    • Repealed the provisions of the Employment Protection Act 1975 which enabled independent trade unions to secure recognition for the purposes of collective bargaining. The Employment Relations Act 1999 [section 1 and Schedule 1] introduced a new statutory trade union recognition procedure which differs in many respects from that which operated under the 1975 Act. The new procedures came into force on 6 June 2000.

    I qualified in 2000. Back in the 70s and 80s being an employment lawyer, to the extent the discipline existed, generally involved dealing with union issues and collective disputes. I've not had an instruction on a single one since 2001.
    Presumably you mean 'one' as in 'collective dispute'? Surely there must have been issues where a union rep was involved in support, for instance a dismissal case?
    There have been but very few and none that have crossed my desk. The last bastion of the unions post Thatcher is in the public sector who instruct a narrow range of counsel. In the private sector where I work - practically nothing.
    Thanks - I had wondered at the apparent anomaly.
  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Test
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    MrEd said:

    Scott_xP said:

    a USAF globemaster appears to have left a few minutes ago. an RAF one left about 10am our time.

    Evacuation flights out of Kabul now paused https://twitter.com/katesullivandc/status/1428747784283467779
    Turkish air force Hercules just taken off. maybe they aren't evacuation flights. maybe twitter has people who don't tell the truth.
    Sky report just now said another flight had just taken off

    And Biden to address the US within the hour
    I suspect a bit make and break for Biden here. He’s already given two public comments which have not gone down well and there are now calls for the full ABC transcript to be released. He’s going to have to pull it out of the bag on this one.
    I think he thought this was a no-brainer on the domestic front: "Americans want out. OK let's do it".

    It is going to bite him (and America and the West) in the arse so hard he will ever be remembered as the President that gave Afghanistan to the Taliban on a plate.

    A latter day Jimmy Carter who has allowed America to be humiliated by another bunch of gun-toting Islamist clerics. Unfortunately Americans are likely to be too stupid to realise Trump was equally to blame.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Test

    Biden failed it.
  • Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,161
    Nigelb said:

    Is Mike going to take this crib sheet along, and propose a government of national unity to bring the legislation forward by a year ?

    Employment Act 1980
    • Encouraged secret ballots both on proposed industrial action and in electing union officials by making public funds available [sections 1-2]. This was superseded by the Trade Union Act 1984 and the Trade Union and Employment Rights Act 1993 which required secret ballots and withdrew public funding.
    • Limited the closed shop by protecting from dismissal workers who objected to union membership on grounds of conscience or other deeply held personal conviction [section 7]. Superseded by the Employment Act 1988 and the Employment Act 1990 which effectively outlawed closed shops.
    • Required all new closed shop agreements to be approved by at least 80% of those eligible to vote in a secret ballot [section 7(3)]. Superseded by the Employment Act 1988 and the Employment Act 1990 which effectively outlawed closed shops altogether.
    • Restricted lawful picketing to those attending at or near their own place of work [section 16]. A Code of Practice issued under the Act recommended that six pickets should be the normal limit.
    • Removed immunity from secondary action (including blacking) unless it was designed to put direct pressure on the employer in dispute by interfering with his business with his suppliers or customers [section 17].
    • Repealed the provisions of the Employment Protection Act 1975 which enabled independent trade unions to secure recognition for the purposes of collective bargaining. The Employment Relations Act 1999 [section 1 and Schedule 1] introduced a new statutory trade union recognition procedure which differs in many respects from that which operated under the 1975 Act. The new procedures came into force on 6 June 2000.

    Nah.

    Going in disguise as a Tory.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,249
    pigeon said:

    Well, I must say, I'm shocked.
    We catch one of their boys, smack his bottom and let him go. They catch one of ours, they torture and kill him. It's asymmetric warfare - like Robin Hood vs Genghis Khan.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287

    Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
    There shouldn’t even be a bloody stupid time scale. Biden should have ripped up Trump’s moronic agreement, slowly started moving people out, kept bagram open just in case, put in MORE troops to aid a slow, thorough withdrawal. And right at the end you sabotage all weapons if you do have to get everyone out. Meanwhile start arming potential taliban adversaries

    And, also, fuck Pakistan. Frankly. This country is no friend of the West.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,249
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
    There shouldn’t even be a bloody stupid time scale. Biden should have ripped up Trump’s moronic agreement, slowly started moving people out, kept bagram open just in case, put in MORE troops to aid a slow, thorough withdrawal. And right at the end you sabotage all weapons if you do have to get everyone out. Meanwhile start arming potential taliban adversaries

    And, also, fuck Pakistan. Frankly. This country is no friend of the West.
    Nato created a single, unified national army out of all the potential taliban adversaries. It's how they think.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
    There shouldn’t even be a bloody stupid time scale. Biden should have ripped up Trump’s moronic agreement, slowly started moving people out, kept bagram open just in case, put in MORE troops to aid a slow, thorough withdrawal. And right at the end you sabotage all weapons if you do have to get everyone out. Meanwhile start arming potential taliban adversaries

    And, also, fuck Pakistan. Frankly. This country is no friend of the West.
    I cannot understand why Pakistan has not been put under more pressure by the West. They have been arming the Taliban and giving them sanctuary. The Taliban don't have munitions factories. One has to assume they have got their weapons and materiel from Pakistan.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
    There shouldn’t even be a bloody stupid time scale. Biden should have ripped up Trump’s moronic agreement, slowly started moving people out, kept bagram open just in case, put in MORE troops to aid a slow, thorough withdrawal. And right at the end you sabotage all weapons if you do have to get everyone out. Meanwhile start arming potential taliban adversaries

    And, also, fuck Pakistan. Frankly. This country is no friend of the West.
    I cannot understand why Pakistan has not been put under more pressure by the West. They have been arming the Taliban and giving them sanctuary. The Taliban don't have munitions factories. One has to assume they have got their weapons and materiel from Pakistan.
    I don’t get it either
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    Scott_xP said:

    a USAF globemaster appears to have left a few minutes ago. an RAF one left about 10am our time.

    Evacuation flights out of Kabul now paused https://twitter.com/katesullivandc/status/1428747784283467779
    Turkish air force Hercules just taken off. maybe they aren't evacuation flights. maybe twitter has people who don't tell the truth.
    Sky report just now said another flight had just taken off

    And Biden to address the US within the hour
    the Turkish flight landed at Islamabad. Not sure where the US one went but there is a USAF Bombardier heading that way from the UAE.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
    There shouldn’t even be a bloody stupid time scale. Biden should have ripped up Trump’s moronic agreement, slowly started moving people out, kept bagram open just in case, put in MORE troops to aid a slow, thorough withdrawal. And right at the end you sabotage all weapons if you do have to get everyone out. Meanwhile start arming potential taliban adversaries

    And, also, fuck Pakistan. Frankly. This country is no friend of the West.
    I cannot understand why Pakistan has not been put under more pressure by the West. They have been arming the Taliban and giving them sanctuary. The Taliban don't have munitions factories. One has to assume they have got their weapons and materiel from Pakistan.
    I don’t get it either
    Pakistan is a nation founded expressly as an Islamic state and is nuclear capable.

    Do you feel lucky?
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
    There shouldn’t even be a bloody stupid time scale. Biden should have ripped up Trump’s moronic agreement, slowly started moving people out, kept bagram open just in case, put in MORE troops to aid a slow, thorough withdrawal. And right at the end you sabotage all weapons if you do have to get everyone out. Meanwhile start arming potential taliban adversaries

    And, also, fuck Pakistan. Frankly. This country is no friend of the West.
    I cannot understand why Pakistan has not been put under more pressure by the West. They have been arming the Taliban and giving them sanctuary. The Taliban don't have munitions factories. One has to assume they have got their weapons and materiel from Pakistan.
    I don’t get it either
    Pakistan is a nation founded expressly as an Islamic state and is nuclear capable.

    Do you feel lucky?
    There are such things as sanctions. Generally they don't result in a thermo-nuclear response.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
    There shouldn’t even be a bloody stupid time scale. Biden should have ripped up Trump’s moronic agreement, slowly started moving people out, kept bagram open just in case, put in MORE troops to aid a slow, thorough withdrawal. And right at the end you sabotage all weapons if you do have to get everyone out. Meanwhile start arming potential taliban adversaries

    And, also, fuck Pakistan. Frankly. This country is no friend of the West.
    I cannot understand why Pakistan has not been put under more pressure by the West. They have been arming the Taliban and giving them sanctuary. The Taliban don't have munitions factories. One has to assume they have got their weapons and materiel from Pakistan.
    I don’t get it either
    Pakistan is a nation founded expressly as an Islamic state and is nuclear capable.

    Do you feel lucky?
    We are not obliged to give them aid, or allow migration therefrom, for starters. It’s a hostile power
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
    There shouldn’t even be a bloody stupid time scale. Biden should have ripped up Trump’s moronic agreement, slowly started moving people out, kept bagram open just in case, put in MORE troops to aid a slow, thorough withdrawal. And right at the end you sabotage all weapons if you do have to get everyone out. Meanwhile start arming potential taliban adversaries

    And, also, fuck Pakistan. Frankly. This country is no friend of the West.
    I cannot understand why Pakistan has not been put under more pressure by the West. They have been arming the Taliban and giving them sanctuary. The Taliban don't have munitions factories. One has to assume they have got their weapons and materiel from Pakistan.
    Unfortunately because Pakistan seems to see everything through a prism of anti-India and Islam the only way really to deal with Pakistan is probably going all Israel on them and destroy all their nuclear sites with bombing, take out their nuclear scientists and then bunker down during the inevitable terror attacks on the west - especially the UK - afterwards.

    Whilst Pakistan is nuclear armed then there is little anyone else can/will do as they have a tendency to sell nuclear knowhow to others (North Korea/Iran) so imagine the temptation for them if they have their nuclear capability and knowledge and feel under threat by the west.

    And Pakistan happened under the noses of the west when they seemed like a good bet as an enemy of a potential communist state - India and a real one - the USSR so the genie was let out the bottle.

    Ultimately one day the Israeli approach will probably be necessary. Alternatively of course just give everyone in pakistan $1m and then they will enjoy their lives and maybe not be tempted to lose it all but that’s a bit unlikely.....
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Right Said Fred frontman and anti-vaxxer Richard Fairbrass has contracted Covid-19 - but still has no intention of having the jab.

    Mail
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
    There shouldn’t even be a bloody stupid time scale. Biden should have ripped up Trump’s moronic agreement, slowly started moving people out, kept bagram open just in case, put in MORE troops to aid a slow, thorough withdrawal. And right at the end you sabotage all weapons if you do have to get everyone out. Meanwhile start arming potential taliban adversaries

    And, also, fuck Pakistan. Frankly. This country is no friend of the West.
    I cannot understand why Pakistan has not been put under more pressure by the West. They have been arming the Taliban and giving them sanctuary. The Taliban don't have munitions factories. One has to assume they have got their weapons and materiel from Pakistan.
    I don’t get it either
    Pakistan is a nation founded expressly as an Islamic state and is nuclear capable.

    Do you feel lucky?
    There are such things as sanctions. Generally they don't result in a thermo-nuclear response.
    Put simply, Pakistan doesn't give a fuck and is too important to "The West".

    They have been managing the Taliban and Afghan for the past few decades. They aren't going to stop now.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2021
    Bin Laden banned Al Qaeda from trying to assassinate Biden as he believed he would be an incompetent President and 'lead the US into a crisis' documents found at his compound show
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9911499/Osama-bin-Laden-predicted-Joe-Biden-lead-America-crisis.html
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
    There shouldn’t even be a bloody stupid time scale. Biden should have ripped up Trump’s moronic agreement, slowly started moving people out, kept bagram open just in case, put in MORE troops to aid a slow, thorough withdrawal. And right at the end you sabotage all weapons if you do have to get everyone out. Meanwhile start arming potential taliban adversaries

    And, also, fuck Pakistan. Frankly. This country is no friend of the West.
    I cannot understand why Pakistan has not been put under more pressure by the West. They have been arming the Taliban and giving them sanctuary. The Taliban don't have munitions factories. One has to assume they have got their weapons and materiel from Pakistan.
    I don’t get it either
    Pakistan is a nation founded expressly as an Islamic state and is nuclear capable.

    Do you feel lucky?
    There are such things as sanctions. Generally they don't result in a thermo-nuclear response.
    Put simply, Pakistan doesn't give a fuck and is too important to "The West".

    They have been managing the Taliban and Afghan for the past few decades. They aren't going to stop now.
    Of that I am well aware. One could suggest that the fact that they have been allowed to do so has therefore been a diplomatic and intelligence failure. Pressure should be applied. Sanctions have been applied to much more important and powerful powers than the Pakistanis FFS.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310

    Right Said Fred frontman and anti-vaxxer Richard Fairbrass has contracted Covid-19 - but still has no intention of having the jab.

    Mail

    he's deeply dippy.
    Too stupid for his shirt
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2021
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
    There shouldn’t even be a bloody stupid time scale. Biden should have ripped up Trump’s moronic agreement, slowly started moving people out, kept bagram open just in case, put in MORE troops to aid a slow, thorough withdrawal. And right at the end you sabotage all weapons if you do have to get everyone out. Meanwhile start arming potential taliban adversaries

    And, also, fuck Pakistan. Frankly. This country is no friend of the West.
    I cannot understand why Pakistan has not been put under more pressure by the West. They have been arming the Taliban and giving them sanctuary. The Taliban don't have munitions factories. One has to assume they have got their weapons and materiel from Pakistan.
    I don’t get it either
    Pakistan is a nation founded expressly as an Islamic state and is nuclear capable.

    Do you feel lucky?
    There are such things as sanctions. Generally they don't result in a thermo-nuclear response.
    Put simply, Pakistan doesn't give a fuck and is too important to "The West".

    They have been managing the Taliban and Afghan for the past few decades. They aren't going to stop now.
    It depends, Pakistani opposition leader Bilawal Bhutto has attacked the government and earlier called for eradication of the Taliban from Pakistan
    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/pakistan/bilawal-bhutto-zardari-lashes-out-at-pak-pm-over-afghan-issue/articleshow/85419276.cms
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tD2IDd4aDVg
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,750
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
    There shouldn’t even be a bloody stupid time scale. Biden should have ripped up Trump’s moronic agreement, slowly started moving people out, kept bagram open just in case, put in MORE troops to aid a slow, thorough withdrawal. And right at the end you sabotage all weapons if you do have to get everyone out. Meanwhile start arming potential taliban adversaries

    And, also, fuck Pakistan. Frankly. This country is no friend of the West.
    I cannot understand why Pakistan has not been put under more pressure by the West. They have been arming the Taliban and giving them sanctuary. The Taliban don't have munitions factories. One has to assume they have got their weapons and materiel from Pakistan.
    I don’t get it either
    Pakistan is a nation founded expressly as an Islamic state and is nuclear capable.

    Do you feel lucky?
    It's well worth reading V S Naipaul on Islam and why it has manifested in different ways in different countries. "Among the Believers" was the first of his books on the subject. The second was "Beyond Belief".

    There is also, of course, the pleasure of reading a supreme stylist. He was a piece of work but well worth his Nobel.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Something scary and apt is that there is an RAF A400 doing loops here practicing take off and landing and has been over several times. Watching it you suddenly realise how easy potentially it would be for a guy with a rocket to take one down as they don’t seem overly quick. I know they would obviously take off and land differently if a higher threat level than angry French fishermen and seagulls but all the same I have great respect for the bravery of any crews flying in and out of Kabul right now every time it passes over.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,287
    So the Taliban are setting women on fire for cooking food wrong, and exporting young women in coffins to neighbouring countries to be used as sex slaves. But that’s ok, because


    ‘US Government Demands Taliban Respect Women And Girls In Strongly Worded Statement‘

    https://twitter.com/dailycaller/status/1428418574998245376?s=21
  • TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
    There shouldn’t even be a bloody stupid time scale. Biden should have ripped up Trump’s moronic agreement, slowly started moving people out, kept bagram open just in case, put in MORE troops to aid a slow, thorough withdrawal. And right at the end you sabotage all weapons if you do have to get everyone out. Meanwhile start arming potential taliban adversaries

    And, also, fuck Pakistan. Frankly. This country is no friend of the West.
    I cannot understand why Pakistan has not been put under more pressure by the West. They have been arming the Taliban and giving them sanctuary. The Taliban don't have munitions factories. One has to assume they have got their weapons and materiel from Pakistan.
    I don’t get it either
    Pakistan is a nation founded expressly as an Islamic state and is nuclear capable.

    Do you feel lucky?
    That is not quite right. It was General Zia who deposed (and executed) Bhutto who Islamified Pakistan but that was OK because he was also organising the mujahideens to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan in coordination with and bankrolled by the United States.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2021

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
    There shouldn’t even be a bloody stupid time scale. Biden should have ripped up Trump’s moronic agreement, slowly started moving people out, kept bagram open just in case, put in MORE troops to aid a slow, thorough withdrawal. And right at the end you sabotage all weapons if you do have to get everyone out. Meanwhile start arming potential taliban adversaries

    And, also, fuck Pakistan. Frankly. This country is no friend of the West.
    I cannot understand why Pakistan has not been put under more pressure by the West. They have been arming the Taliban and giving them sanctuary. The Taliban don't have munitions factories. One has to assume they have got their weapons and materiel from Pakistan.
    I don’t get it either
    Pakistan is a nation founded expressly as an Islamic state and is nuclear capable.

    Do you feel lucky?
    That is not quite right. It was General Zia who deposed (and executed) Bhutto who Islamified Pakistan but that was OK because he was also organising the mujahideens to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan in coordination with and bankrolled by the United States.
    It is now Bhutto's son who leads Pakistani opposition to the Taliban as leader of his mother's and grandfather's PPP party.

    The Pakistani Taliban are alleged to have been involved in the assassination of his mother Benazir in 2007, she was Pakistani PM from 1998 to 1990 and 1993 to 1996 and her husband became President after her death from 2008-2013
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited August 2021
    O/T

    Has anyone else been hit by swarms of flying ants today?

    Edit: according to Twitter, the answer is yes.

    https://twitter.com/search?q=flying ant&src=typed_query&f=live
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Leon said:

    So the Taliban are setting women on fire for cooking food wrong, and exporting young women in coffins to neighbouring countries to be used as sex slaves. But that’s ok, because


    ‘US Government Demands Taliban Respect Women And Girls In Strongly Worded Statement‘

    https://twitter.com/dailycaller/status/1428418574998245376?s=21

    Jesus. Are you not on your plane yet?
  • Leon said:

    So the Taliban are setting women on fire for cooking food wrong, and exporting young women in coffins to neighbouring countries to be used as sex slaves. But that’s ok, because


    ‘US Government Demands Taliban Respect Women And Girls In Strongly Worded Statement‘

    https://twitter.com/dailycaller/status/1428418574998245376?s=21

    US Govt = Woke
    Taliban = antiwoke
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001

    Right Said Fred frontman and anti-vaxxer Richard Fairbrass has contracted Covid-19 - but still has no intention of having the jab.

    Mail

    Too fecking late now if he’s got it, anyway.
    In any case, the vast majority of the antivaxxers will inevitably get it now. They can’t hide behind the vax wall of the rest of us.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Leon said:

    So the Taliban are setting women on fire for cooking food wrong, and exporting young women in coffins to neighbouring countries to be used as sex slaves. But that’s ok, because


    ‘US Government Demands Taliban Respect Women And Girls In Strongly Worded Statement‘

    https://twitter.com/dailycaller/status/1428418574998245376?s=21

    US Govt = Woke
    Taliban = antiwoke
    So, are you saying @Casino_Royale is actually a Taliban member?
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377

    Leon said:

    So the Taliban are setting women on fire for cooking food wrong, and exporting young women in coffins to neighbouring countries to be used as sex slaves. But that’s ok, because


    ‘US Government Demands Taliban Respect Women And Girls In Strongly Worded Statement‘

    https://twitter.com/dailycaller/status/1428418574998245376?s=21

    US Govt = Woke
    Taliban = antiwoke
    US Govt = Asleep
    Taliban = Wide Awake
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Biden presser now
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Can anyone tell me what Douglas means here by anti-family?

    https://twitter.com/Douglas4Moray/status/1428643578025230343?s=19
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    Leon said:

    So the Taliban are setting women on fire for cooking food wrong, and exporting young women in coffins to neighbouring countries to be used as sex slaves. But that’s ok, because


    ‘US Government Demands Taliban Respect Women And Girls In Strongly Worded Statement‘

    https://twitter.com/dailycaller/status/1428418574998245376?s=21

    US Govt = Woke
    Taliban = antiwoke
    What the hell are we supposed to use man, harsh language?
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
    There shouldn’t even be a bloody stupid time scale. Biden should have ripped up Trump’s moronic agreement, slowly started moving people out, kept bagram open just in case, put in MORE troops to aid a slow, thorough withdrawal. And right at the end you sabotage all weapons if you do have to get everyone out. Meanwhile start arming potential taliban adversaries

    And, also, fuck Pakistan. Frankly. This country is no friend of the West.
    I cannot understand why Pakistan has not been put under more pressure by the West. They have been arming the Taliban and giving them sanctuary. The Taliban don't have munitions factories. One has to assume they have got their weapons and materiel from Pakistan.
    I don’t get it either
    Pakistan is a nation founded expressly as an Islamic state and is nuclear capable.

    Do you feel lucky?
    There are such things as sanctions. Generally they don't result in a thermo-nuclear response.
    Put simply, Pakistan doesn't give a fuck and is too important to "The West".

    They have been managing the Taliban and Afghan for the past few decades. They aren't going to stop now.
    They invented it and even researched the name “Taliban” to make sure it was well accepted among Afghans…..
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Biden: "I am focused on getting this job done"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2021
    Alistair said:

    Can anyone tell me what Douglas means here by anti-family?

    https://twitter.com/Douglas4Moray/status/1428643578025230343?s=19

    Ask MalcG about the GRA, seems hardline Alba Nats agree with Ross
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    Boy does Biden come off as cold and insincere.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    “I have seen no questions of our credibility among our allies”.

    HoC - take that!
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    Ooh he is taking questions, US press is about to eviscerate him...
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    So the Taliban are setting women on fire for cooking food wrong, and exporting young women in coffins to neighbouring countries to be used as sex slaves. But that’s ok, because


    ‘US Government Demands Taliban Respect Women And Girls In Strongly Worded Statement‘

    https://twitter.com/dailycaller/status/1428418574998245376?s=21

    Jesus. Are you not on your plane yet?
    You fly internetless?

    Muy retro!
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Biden: "It is time to end this."
  • Biden

    We have over the horizon strategy
  • “I have seen no questions of our credibility among our allies”.

    HoC - take that!

    He is in total denial and frankly an utter disaster
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    jonny83 said:

    Boy does Biden come off as cold and insincere.

    Yet he is the most 'uncold' politician in America.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    edited August 2021
    So there now appears to be 100% confirmation that UK and French units are venturing out into Kabul and getting people to KBL airport. The Germans look to be working to the same plan, having unloaded choppers at KBL.

    This leads to some questions, which it appears some in the US are picking up on. Why are the US not doing the same, or at least seen to be doing the same?

    There are several possible theories, two of the most explosive are that the UK and others have perhaps cut a dirty deal with the Taliban or that the US troops are under instruction to not venture out. Maybe the intermediaries the UK and so on are working with are just a bit better....



    I mentioned yesterday one thing to watch for as regards what way the overall wind was blowing was what the security firms that advise and operate security for Westerners in Afghanistan were advising to their clients; hide or go to airport. Less publicised than the UK & French expeditions are that those private security firms are actually doing some of the runs from city to airport escorting human cargo. I am 100% it is going on ona ones and twos basis.I had also heard a story yesterday that the US was looking to contract some firms in at very short notice to do some extraction work.

    Add all that up and it does make a reasonable case that the US could be seeking to outsource their effort but again, why? What is stopping them doing it with what they have or flying in the operators? Are they doing it and just pretending they arent? Given the god awful publicity back at home, you would suspect if they were at it, the administration would leak it out



  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    jonny83 said:

    Boy does Biden come off as cold and insincere.

    Yet he is the most 'uncold' politician in America.
    And now the most uncool too.
  • To be honest I just do not think he has the capacity to understand just how he has misjudged this
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited August 2021
    jonny83 said:

    Boy does Biden come off as cold and insincere.

    To misquote JFK 'Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay no price, bear no burden, meet no hardship, support none of our friends, refuse to oppose any foe to assure the failure and the extinction of liberty.'
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Biden: "This was my decision. The buck stops here."
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759

    To be honest I just do not think he has the capacity to understand just how he has misjudged this

    Assuming you mean Biden.

    The reaction may well be they'll have a 12yo president next time round.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What have we done. I feel for the soldiers here. Lions led by Protozoa


    “Help! Taliban is coming. Taliban is coming.”

    Young Afghan woman outside a gate at #Kabul airport pleading for U.S. soldiers to let her, and other civilians, in.’

    https://twitter.com/frudbezhan/status/1428032250239668226?s=21

    The point must be coming when Biden rows back on leaving in his time scale

    Will be interesting what he says shortly
    There shouldn’t even be a bloody stupid time scale. Biden should have ripped up Trump’s moronic agreement, slowly started moving people out, kept bagram open just in case, put in MORE troops to aid a slow, thorough withdrawal. And right at the end you sabotage all weapons if you do have to get everyone out. Meanwhile start arming potential taliban adversaries

    And, also, fuck Pakistan. Frankly. This country is no friend of the West.
    I cannot understand why Pakistan has not been put under more pressure by the West. They have been arming the Taliban and giving them sanctuary. The Taliban don't have munitions factories. One has to assume they have got their weapons and materiel from Pakistan.
    I don’t get it either
    Pakistan is a nation founded expressly as an Islamic state and is nuclear capable.

    Do you feel lucky?
    That is not quite right. It was General Zia who deposed (and executed) Bhutto who Islamified Pakistan but that was OK because he was also organising the mujahideens to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan in coordination with and bankrolled by the United States.
    Partition was along religious lines.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    ..Biden just seems incoherent and insincere.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,094
    edited August 2021
    I had heard of The Secret Barrister and the Secret Magistrate, but I had no idea it was a whole genre now

    Why are there so many ‘secret’ books?...

    First there was the “Secret Barrister”, whose mysterious social media avatar of a robed bunny rabbit propelled him/her first to the heights of legal Twitter and then to a multi-book deal. Hot on his/her heels came lid-lifting memoirs from the “Secret Doctor”, “Secret Civil Servant”, “Secret Magistrate” et al; now the genre welcomes a volume from the “Secret Head Teacher” (out on 19 August)...

    Through history, signing your name to your testimony was what gave it credibility. Enthusiasts of rhetoric call this the “ethos” appeal: your audience knows who you are and can trust you – or not – based on your public standing.

    Now, the opposite seems to hold. We are in an environment where anonymity is not the token of the fink, the weasel, the confidential informer and the nark, but of the brave speaker of truth to power... The suggestion is there are some truths that can only be spoken under a cloak of anonymity.


    https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/culture/article/secret-book-authors?utm_source=pocket-newtab-global-en-GB

    I did like The Secret Barrister and Fake Law, though Justice on Trial by Chris Daw was good and shows it doesn't need to be anonymous. Secret Magistrate sounds interesting.
This discussion has been closed.