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Poor ratings for Johnson, Patel and Starmer from Ipsos-MORI – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    felix said:

    Cookie said:


    Ireland pretty spread out on that measure too. Aside from Dublin there are a lot of small towns, widely spaced.
    Scotland and Ireland are si.ilar in size and population but in Scotland they are massively concentrated in the Central Belt: much more evenly spread in Ireland.

    Doesn't obviously explain the difference in vaccine take-up in the younger age groups, though.
    It's about who makes up the groups in question.

    Look at the ares with higher take up in the UK....
    Quite - it's really not rocket scinece.
    Nor brian sugerry.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited August 2021
    Nate Silver's new 5 groups on Covid.

    From vaccinated but not ready for a return to normal to vaccinated and in favour of modest restrictions and vaccinated andover the pandemic and restrictions.

    Also includes unvaccinated and strongly anti any restrictions and unvaccinated and in favour of other restrictions

    https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/status/1423301403649396738?s=20
  • Options
    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,807
    stodge said:

    Sean_F said:


    I think you're shouting into the wind.

    Whether you think I'm shouting into the wind or not, I don't care but there will come a day when the Conservative Party no longer governs. When that will be I don't know and there seem plenty on here who relish the prospect of Conservative rule ad infinitum but it seems harmful to the nature of democracy for there not to be the occasional change in governing party.

    Someone once fold me the country will vote Labour when it believes it can afford to vote Labour - the argument of those suggesting a long-term economic boom is there will come a point when people will feel so relaxed about prosperity a Labour vote will not seem a risk.

    A little economic fear helps keep people in the Conservative camp as insecurity about wealth and finances usually translates into an unwillingness to support increased taxation and public spending whereas if people feel comfortable about their wealth they are happy for the State to show some largesse.
    For sure, the Conservatives will lose eventually.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Cookie said:


    Ireland pretty spread out on that measure too. Aside from Dublin there are a lot of small towns, widely spaced.
    Scotland and Ireland are si.ilar in size and population but in Scotland they are massively concentrated in the Central Belt: much more evenly spread in Ireland.

    Doesn't obviously explain the difference in vaccine take-up in the younger age groups, though.
    It's about who makes up the groups in question.

    Look at the ares with higher take up in the UK....
    It's not enough. According The Repository of All Human Knowledge, Asian+Black in Ireland accounts for about 3.5% of the population, compared with about 10% in the UK, but the jab take up (first doses) 18-29 is 78.5% compared with around 60% here. That's a pretty striking difference.
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,885
    edited August 2021
    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:


    That’s them told

    Are you not going to post his next proclamation, where he announces that he is transitioning and will be playing for the USWNT in the 2024 Olympics?
    The scope creep with the "Woke" bomb (as used by the crazy Right) is becoming absurd now.

    It's come to mean anything and everything about the modern world that irritates blokes who'd prefer to live in the 1950s version of it.
    Of course, if you oppose anything woke, you just want to return to the 50s. Right.

    Plenty of women also not happy about quite a bit of wokery, especially around the trans issue. Never had Linda Bellos and Germaine Greer as a pair of grizzled blokes looking for a return to the 50s but there you go.
    But you know what I mean. Stuff like this Trump latest (if not fake) or over here, 'GB rowing' no longer dominating the gold medals because they've "gone woke". I mean, c'mon.

    Hey and being radical in the 60s is no protection against being reactionary now. There are loads of examples of this. Isn't the Woodstock guy a high end property developer now? Something like that anyway. I don't buy the generality that people move right with age but certainly some do.
    Both cycling and rowing have lost their coaches with, er, a reputation for borrowing Alex Ferguson's hairdryer.

    It is hard to argue that the method wasn't successful, but is it acceptable?

    I don't imagine the Chinese coaching is particularly sentimental.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    felix said:

    Cookie said:


    Ireland pretty spread out on that measure too. Aside from Dublin there are a lot of small towns, widely spaced.
    Scotland and Ireland are si.ilar in size and population but in Scotland they are massively concentrated in the Central Belt: much more evenly spread in Ireland.

    Doesn't obviously explain the difference in vaccine take-up in the younger age groups, though.
    Living in a similar style area of SE Spain it seems pretty plausible to me. Social cohesion and compliance are somewhat easier to achieve in most things in my experience. May not be a total explanation but I suspect it explains a lot. Would be intresting to see the stats for Dublin v the rest though.
    Maybe. I don't know if we have figures to that level of detail to test it.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,426

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    And 'burner' has also appeared in every single Michael Connelly novel for the past decade.

    Of course everyone knows what they are.

    Who is Michael Connolly?
    A best selling trashy novelist, and I mean proper best selling, creator of Harry Bosch. Ok for passing the time on a sun lounger though the series is a bit exhausted now. I prefer Robert Crais in that particular line.
    Ah yes, Bosch. I used to devour them on holiday. Ages ago now but I think I recall he was standard 'tough guy with a heart' material but with the quirk that he knocked up a good pasta (and quite often did).
    I am now astounded that I used to hang on Patricia Cornwell's every book. The past is indeed a foreign country.
    Yep - read those too. Kay Scarpetta. Solid work. And I'm confident of low-browing you off the court with Robert Walker's "Jessica Coran" potboilers. There's no way you would have spent hours with them, but I did.
    The Sue Grafton books are my favourite trash.
    She started writing them in the 80's, and kept on going for decades, still setting them in the 80s. Quite the nostalgia trip.
    Ah, heard off but never read any. One of the 1st with a female (private) dick apparently per a quick wiki. And she didn't do a "Z is for ..." for some reason. Stopped at Y.
    My son has started reading them, which feels strange.
    Wish mine would read ANY books. It's a dying habit, I fear. And I'm just as bad. I get through maybe 5 a year now cf 20 in the past. And that's with being retired cf working, so it ought to have gone the other way. I should be tearing through the oeuvres and genres!
    I used to read a book a week, easy, now way down. Of course the main explanation is the incubus of the internet sucking out everything, but I wonder if it's also time running out and not enough left to waste on even okayish (as opposed to outright trash) stuff.
    I hope that's not as bleak as it sounds?
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,617
    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    philiph said:

    On topic, Sunak's going to become as unpopular as an ex with the clap if he keeps the triple lock, cuts the UC uplift, and generally puts up payroll taxes.

    When do we find out and can we bet on it/them?
    Well the UC uplift ends next month, so that will be pretty soon either way.

    As for the rest, pass, there's talk of moving to budget to next year now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/16/covid-impact-forces-sunak-to-consider-delaying-budget-until-next-year
    The triple lock does need to go - though aware it appeals to much of the Tories base. Though in the spirit of fairness if I end up paying more tax whilst the oldies are showered with goodies than the resentment will just build.
    Indeed. At some point the younger voters will finally turn out and vote.

    I mean, just get rid of the NI exemption for pensionable age workers for starters.
    That really is an obvious (if painful) place to start. Also fully logical as there is no longer an age at which retirement from the workplace is taken. Gone are the days of 60 female / 65 male. People can opt to continue in employment and so should continue to make the same contributions.
    Rationalising National Insurance does make sense. But I have never understood PB Tories' animosity to the triple lock. The full state pension is less than £10,000 a year which is less than the minimum wage. It is as mysterious as all those backbenchers who used to demand concessions for garden centres.
    It'd make more sense to merge NI and income tax, and abolish the allowances for bank interest and share dividends, and tax income fairly. And leave the triple lock.
    I agree with that exception for the allowance on bank interest and dividends.

    Re bank interest I have no objection to the allowance being removed other than it removes the need for collecting peanuts and the associated cost of collecting peanuts so it might make sense to have an allowance just for that reason.

    Re dividends. Where to start. Gordon Brown completely screwed this up just so he could nobble then pension funds. George Osborne promised to put this right, but he lied and pretended he had. As a consequence the link between dividends and Corporation Tax/ACT is completely broken now. The £5000 helped for small shareholders. Philip Hammond made it worse by reducing it to £2000. For all the buggering around you might as well eliminate it other than the admin factor, but in reality the sensible set up that had worked for decades should be reintroduced. Meddling chancellors!
    I think there may also be a case for changes to Winter Fuel Allowance, which currently costs of the order of 2-3 billion a year and is rather indiscrimate.

    It is better to be spending the money on measures to reduce demand for heating imo.
    Agree. Also the Christmas bonus is now pointless. It was a shock when I got mine for the first time last year, £10!

    Won't save much. I imagine the admin probably approaches the value.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,020
    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    And 'burner' has also appeared in every single Michael Connelly novel for the past decade.

    Of course everyone knows what they are.

    Who is Michael Connolly?
    A best selling trashy novelist, and I mean proper best selling, creator of Harry Bosch. Ok for passing the time on a sun lounger though the series is a bit exhausted now. I prefer Robert Crais in that particular line.
    Ah yes, Bosch. I used to devour them on holiday. Ages ago now but I think I recall he was standard 'tough guy with a heart' material but with the quirk that he knocked up a good pasta (and quite often did).
    I am now astounded that I used to hang on Patricia Cornwell's every book. The past is indeed a foreign country.
    Yep - read those too. Kay Scarpetta. Solid work. And I'm confident of low-browing you off the court with Robert Walker's "Jessica Coran" potboilers. There's no way you would have spent hours with them, but I did.
    The Sue Grafton books are my favourite trash.
    She started writing them in the 80's, and kept on going for decades, still setting them in the 80s. Quite the nostalgia trip.
    Ah, heard off but never read any. One of the 1st with a female (private) dick apparently per a quick wiki. And she didn't do a "Z is for ..." for some reason. Stopped at Y.
    My son has started reading them, which feels strange.
    Wish mine would read ANY books. It's a dying habit, I fear. And I'm just as bad. I get through maybe 5 a year now cf 20 in the past. And that's with being retired cf working, so it ought to have gone the other way. I should be tearing through the oeuvres and genres!
    I used to read a book a week, easy, now way down. Of course the main explanation is the incubus of the internet sucking out everything, but I wonder if it's also time running out and not enough left to waste on even okayish (as opposed to outright trash) stuff.
    I hope that's not as bleak as it sounds?
    Just standard Calvinist fatalism, nothing more sinister!
    Thanks for asking..
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,885
    Cricket to resume at 1700? Rain to resume at about the same time, according to the radar.

    What is this farce?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,326

    Cookie said:


    Ireland pretty spread out on that measure too. Aside from Dublin there are a lot of small towns, widely spaced.
    Scotland and Ireland are si.ilar in size and population but in Scotland they are massively concentrated in the Central Belt: much more evenly spread in Ireland.

    Doesn't obviously explain the difference in vaccine take-up in the younger age groups, though.
    It's about who makes up the groups in question.

    Look at the ares with higher take up in the UK....
    It's not enough. According The Repository of All Human Knowledge, Asian+Black in Ireland accounts for about 3.5% of the population, compared with about 10% in the UK, but the jab take up (first doses) 18-29 is 78.5% compared with around 60% here. That's a pretty striking difference.
    Population pyramids - demographics are quite different across age groups....
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    Nigelb said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:



    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    Well off old white Tory blokes completely bewildered at newfangled "marketing" by Labour.

    It will never catch on, says @BannedInParis.

    tha't the second time you have referenced colour to make a dig. Try substituting another colour and see what it looks like.
    Well off old pink Tory blokes completely bewildered at newfangled "marketing" by Labour.

    Looks just fine.
    As a gay Tory I resent that on many more levels - especially as my Mediterranean tan has not a hint of pink about it.
    What about it is it that you resent?
    Simply that you seem to think you're totally tuned in to your Liberal vibe while you're just as full of the same old prejudices and stereotypes as the rest of us and completely unaware of it. I'm old, white, gay and proud - in your world all three seem to justify slurs and sneers. Clueless.
    That was some leap. You're an old, white, Tory. As are so many on PB.

    It was not a huge deductive leap for me to work out that that was what you are. And I was right. Oh and you're gay, thanks for telling me.

    And old, white, (gay or not gay) Tories have shown themselves to be bewildered by Lab's latest marketing strategy or rather, by Jon Trickett's tweet.

    Get over yourself and embrace the truth would be my advice.
    Apparently it was pretty hard for you to understand the other day that I also voted remain. Maybe you could try removing your own blinkered views about race/age/sexuality before handing out unsolicited advice to others.

    Jeez if leaping to conclusions was an Olympic sport you would win gold ("gold" is ok to use, is it?).

    The other day you said you loathed the EU. Which is pretty funny as you live in the EU regardless of how you voted although if I were using my Sherlock Holmes powers again (easy when it comes to you) I would say you voted Remain because you wanted the EU to maintain links to your homeland rather than anything else and if so fair enough.

    And now, because I correctly identify the preponderance of old, white, Tory PB-ers, of which you are one such, I have blinkered views about race/age/sexuality [??].

    You are an old, white, Tory who can't understand a tweet aimed at Lab's supporters who include many people who are old and white but perhaps not so many as Cons' supporters or PB denizens.

    You are looking to be outraged where there is no reason to be outraged.
    And you are pretty thick it seems. Once you use any 'ism' to sneer as you do you give carte 'noir' [sic] for all of it. For the record I understand the tweet - not completely gaga - just think it is pretty lame, like your attempts to gloss over your prejudices. Clearly you don't get it and never will. Such is life.
    Yes but how did the you being gay thing fit into it all?
    If i had a pink € for every time some fool has asked that.
    You'd have 85p?
    You're claiming to be the first fool ? :smile:
    He must mean me as I don't even understand the frame of reference so yes. Nuncle.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:



    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    Well off old white Tory blokes completely bewildered at newfangled "marketing" by Labour.

    It will never catch on, says @BannedInParis.

    tha't the second time you have referenced colour to make a dig. Try substituting another colour and see what it looks like.
    Well off old pink Tory blokes completely bewildered at newfangled "marketing" by Labour.

    Looks just fine.
    As a gay Tory I resent that on many more levels - especially as my Mediterranean tan has not a hint of pink about it.
    What about it is it that you resent?
    Simply that you seem to think you're totally tuned in to your Liberal vibe while you're just as full of the same old prejudices and stereotypes as the rest of us and completely unaware of it. I'm old, white, gay and proud - in your world all three seem to justify slurs and sneers. Clueless.
    That was some leap. You're an old, white, Tory. As are so many on PB.

    It was not a huge deductive leap for me to work out that that was what you are. And I was right. Oh and you're gay, thanks for telling me.

    And old, white, (gay or not gay) Tories have shown themselves to be bewildered by Lab's latest marketing strategy or rather, by Jon Trickett's tweet.

    Get over yourself and embrace the truth would be my advice.
    Apparently it was pretty hard for you to understand the other day that I also voted remain. Maybe you could try removing your own blinkered views about race/age/sexuality before handing out unsolicited advice to others.

    Jeez if leaping to conclusions was an Olympic sport you would win gold ("gold" is ok to use, is it?).

    The other day you said you loathed the EU. Which is pretty funny as you live in the EU regardless of how you voted although if I were using my Sherlock Holmes powers again (easy when it comes to you) I would say you voted Remain because you wanted the EU to maintain links to your homeland rather than anything else and if so fair enough.

    And now, because I correctly identify the preponderance of old, white, Tory PB-ers, of which you are one such, I have blinkered views about race/age/sexuality [??].

    You are an old, white, Tory who can't understand a tweet aimed at Lab's supporters who include many people who are old and white but perhaps not so many as Cons' supporters or PB denizens.

    You are looking to be outraged where there is no reason to be outraged.
    And you are pretty thick it seems. Once you use any 'ism' to sneer as you do you give carte 'noir' [sic] for all of it. For the record I understand the tweet - not completely gaga - just think it is pretty lame, like your attempts to gloss over your prejudices. Clearly you don't get it and never will. Such is life.
    Yes but how did the you being gay thing fit into it all?
    If i had a pink € for every time some fool has asked that.
    You'd have 85p?
    Oh way more you're not the only fool I was thinking of....
    Must be very frustrating having so many fools in your life. I would perhaps take a break from PB will cut down the ration dramatically.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820
    edited August 2021
    Nigelb said:

    It's not just the racial attitudes of the 19thC that the US right are embracing...

    Florida woman who's an antimasker "wants to promote health the way her generation’s grandparents experienced it. 'When they got sick, they didn’t need the crutch of pharmaceuticals or antibiotics to get better. They just got sick and they got well.'”
    https://twitter.com/BGrueskin/status/1422760495631716353

    (Though it should be noted that vaccination of sorts was a thing back then, too.)

    What's particularly funny about that (apart from the obvious point that when they got sick, a lot of them died) is that the loony Florida woman's lawsuit is about the wearing of masks on planes. I mean, if she wants to be like her grandparents' generation, why the hell is she flying anywhere in the first place?
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,165

    Cookie said:


    Ireland pretty spread out on that measure too. Aside from Dublin there are a lot of small towns, widely spaced.
    Scotland and Ireland are si.ilar in size and population but in Scotland they are massively concentrated in the Central Belt: much more evenly spread in Ireland.

    Doesn't obviously explain the difference in vaccine take-up in the younger age groups, though.
    The first four things I'd consider would be:

    1. Superior education system/outcomes/culture.

    2. Greater importance of emigration, for which being vaccinated will likely be very helpful at least.

    3. Use of vaccine certification for entry into indoor hospitality.

    4. Strong pharmaceutical industry in Ireland which probably has a better reputation in Ireland as a result of national pride than it does in Britain (despite us also having a strong pharmaceutical industry and actually having developed one of the vaccines, pointing to a cultural difference again).
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    felix said:

    Interesting contrast between Ireland and the UK in vaxx rates for the younger cohorts. For 18-29, Ireland has a take-up of 73% double-vaxxed and 78.5% first dose only so far. That's miles better than we're managing - we're only at around 60% first jab.

    It's hard to see what would account for such a big difference. The government and PHE should try to find out.

    Different population demographics
    Yes - how urban is the Republic as a whole compared to the UK I wonder?
    Dublin is broadly comparable in size with Birmingham, and Cork with Portsmouth. If you count the North as well, Belfast is about the same size as Liverpool.

    There are no other towns or cities anywhere in Ireland with populations in excess of 100,000.
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,885
    edited August 2021

    Cricket to resume at 1700? Rain to resume at about the same time, according to the radar.

    What is this farce?

    TWO balls this time before going off, as was utterly predictable from anywhere on the planet with an internet connection.
  • Options
    Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,820

    Cookie said:


    Ireland pretty spread out on that measure too. Aside from Dublin there are a lot of small towns, widely spaced.
    Scotland and Ireland are si.ilar in size and population but in Scotland they are massively concentrated in the Central Belt: much more evenly spread in Ireland.

    Doesn't obviously explain the difference in vaccine take-up in the younger age groups, though.
    The first four things I'd consider would be:

    1. Superior education system/outcomes/culture.

    2. Greater importance of emigration, for which being vaccinated will likely be very helpful at least.

    3. Use of vaccine certification for entry into indoor hospitality.

    4. Strong pharmaceutical industry in Ireland which probably has a better reputation in Ireland as a result of national pride than it does in Britain (despite us also having a strong pharmaceutical industry and actually having developed one of the vaccines, pointing to a cultural difference again).
    Yes, good hypotheses. Another I thought of is the fact that there was a lot of unfavourable comparison with the UK earlier in the year when Ireland was way behind us in the vaccine rollout, and perhaps that has contributed to a national consensus that they needed to catch up.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,658
    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    philiph said:

    On topic, Sunak's going to become as unpopular as an ex with the clap if he keeps the triple lock, cuts the UC uplift, and generally puts up payroll taxes.

    When do we find out and can we bet on it/them?
    Well the UC uplift ends next month, so that will be pretty soon either way.

    As for the rest, pass, there's talk of moving to budget to next year now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/16/covid-impact-forces-sunak-to-consider-delaying-budget-until-next-year
    The triple lock does need to go - though aware it appeals to much of the Tories base. Though in the spirit of fairness if I end up paying more tax whilst the oldies are showered with goodies than the resentment will just build.
    Indeed. At some point the younger voters will finally turn out and vote.

    I mean, just get rid of the NI exemption for pensionable age workers for starters.
    That really is an obvious (if painful) place to start. Also fully logical as there is no longer an age at which retirement from the workplace is taken. Gone are the days of 60 female / 65 male. People can opt to continue in employment and so should continue to make the same contributions.
    Rationalising National Insurance does make sense. But I have never understood PB Tories' animosity to the triple lock. The full state pension is less than £10,000 a year which is less than the minimum wage. It is as mysterious as all those backbenchers who used to demand concessions for garden centres.
    It'd make more sense to merge NI and income tax, and abolish the allowances for bank interest and share dividends, and tax income fairly. And leave the triple lock.
    I agree with that exception for the allowance on bank interest and dividends.

    Re bank interest I have no objection to the allowance being removed other than it removes the need for collecting peanuts and the associated cost of collecting peanuts so it might make sense to have an allowance just for that reason.

    Re dividends. Where to start. Gordon Brown completely screwed this up just so he could nobble then pension funds. George Osborne promised to put this right, but he lied and pretended he had. As a consequence the link between dividends and Corporation Tax/ACT is completely broken now. The £5000 helped for small shareholders. Philip Hammond made it worse by reducing it to £2000. For all the buggering around you might as well eliminate it other than the admin factor, but in reality the sensible set up that had worked for decades should be reintroduced. Meddling chancellors!
    Hmm. The banks used to deduct 20% (or whatever basic rate was) of interest at source so effectively your tax return was done for you if you were standard rate, your PAYE was OK and you had no change in circumstances, surely. HMG got a few very fat cheques and the taxpayers hads to do little. You did have to fill in a form if you were below tax levels but it was quite easy. However, as you say something to be said for giving an allowance to reduce admin and at the same time make sure most of the smaller income people still get their interest in full - though £1000 is, in the outcome. absurdly high in the current financial regime.

    Dividends, I forget the subtler details already, but surely they were also deducted at source, as I recall (or more accurately a notional tax paid voucher was provided alongside what you got)? It does need to be counted somehow as income for income tax purposes else you end up with distortions, but it's easy enough to gross that up.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,500

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:


    That’s them told

    Are you not going to post his next proclamation, where he announces that he is transitioning and will be playing for the USWNT in the 2024 Olympics?
    The scope creep with the "Woke" bomb (as used by the crazy Right) is becoming absurd now.

    It's come to mean anything and everything about the modern world that irritates blokes who'd prefer to live in the 1950s version of it.
    Of course, if you oppose anything woke, you just want to return to the 50s. Right.

    Plenty of women also not happy about quite a bit of wokery, especially around the trans issue. Never had Linda Bellos and Germaine Greer as a pair of grizzled blokes looking for a return to the 50s but there you go.
    But you know what I mean. Stuff like this Trump latest (if not fake) or over here, 'GB rowing' no longer dominating the gold medals because they've "gone woke". I mean, c'mon.

    Hey and being radical in the 60s is no protection against being reactionary now. There are loads of examples of this. Isn't the Woodstock guy a high end property developer now? Something like that anyway. I don't buy the generality that people move right with age but certainly some do.
    Both cycling and rowing have lost their coaches with, er, a reputation for borrowing Alex Ferguson's hairdryer.

    It is hard to argue that the method wasn't successful, but is it acceptable?

    I don't imagine the Chinese coaching is particularly sentimental.
    I thought the rowing coach left because he is in his seventies, and didn't want to stay on the extra Covid imposed year ?
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,658

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    And 'burner' has also appeared in every single Michael Connelly novel for the past decade.

    Of course everyone knows what they are.

    Who is Michael Connolly?
    A best selling trashy novelist, and I mean proper best selling, creator of Harry Bosch. Ok for passing the time on a sun lounger though the series is a bit exhausted now. I prefer Robert Crais in that particular line.
    Ah yes, Bosch. I used to devour them on holiday. Ages ago now but I think I recall he was standard 'tough guy with a heart' material but with the quirk that he knocked up a good pasta (and quite often did).
    I am now astounded that I used to hang on Patricia Cornwell's every book. The past is indeed a foreign country.
    Yep - read those too. Kay Scarpetta. Solid work. And I'm confident of low-browing you off the court with Robert Walker's "Jessica Coran" potboilers. There's no way you would have spent hours with them, but I did.
    The Sue Grafton books are my favourite trash.
    She started writing them in the 80's, and kept on going for decades, still setting them in the 80s. Quite the nostalgia trip.
    Ah, heard off but never read any. One of the 1st with a female (private) dick apparently per a quick wiki. And she didn't do a "Z is for ..." for some reason. Stopped at Y.
    My son has started reading them, which feels strange.
    Wish mine would read ANY books. It's a dying habit, I fear. And I'm just as bad. I get through maybe 5 a year now cf 20 in the past. And that's with being retired cf working, so it ought to have gone the other way. I should be tearing through the oeuvres and genres!
    I used to read a book a week, easy, now way down. Of course the main explanation is the incubus of the internet sucking out everything, but I wonder if it's also time running out and not enough left to waste on even okayish (as opposed to outright trash) stuff.
    I hope that's not as bleak as it sounds?
    Just standard Calvinist fatalism, nothing more sinister!
    Thanks for asking..
    And the work ethic, too. I find myself looking at my groaning shelves and wondering which I would want to reread in what is left to me on earth.
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,885
    edited August 2021
    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:


    That’s them told

    Are you not going to post his next proclamation, where he announces that he is transitioning and will be playing for the USWNT in the 2024 Olympics?
    The scope creep with the "Woke" bomb (as used by the crazy Right) is becoming absurd now.

    It's come to mean anything and everything about the modern world that irritates blokes who'd prefer to live in the 1950s version of it.
    Of course, if you oppose anything woke, you just want to return to the 50s. Right.

    Plenty of women also not happy about quite a bit of wokery, especially around the trans issue. Never had Linda Bellos and Germaine Greer as a pair of grizzled blokes looking for a return to the 50s but there you go.
    But you know what I mean. Stuff like this Trump latest (if not fake) or over here, 'GB rowing' no longer dominating the gold medals because they've "gone woke". I mean, c'mon.

    Hey and being radical in the 60s is no protection against being reactionary now. There are loads of examples of this. Isn't the Woodstock guy a high end property developer now? Something like that anyway. I don't buy the generality that people move right with age but certainly some do.
    Both cycling and rowing have lost their coaches with, er, a reputation for borrowing Alex Ferguson's hairdryer.

    It is hard to argue that the method wasn't successful, but is it acceptable?

    I don't imagine the Chinese coaching is particularly sentimental.
    I thought the rowing coach left because he is in his seventies, and didn't want to stay on the extra Covid imposed year ?
    Yes, but that doesn't mean he didn't have a reputation!
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,180

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    And 'burner' has also appeared in every single Michael Connelly novel for the past decade.

    Of course everyone knows what they are.

    Who is Michael Connolly?
    A best selling trashy novelist, and I mean proper best selling, creator of Harry Bosch. Ok for passing the time on a sun lounger though the series is a bit exhausted now. I prefer Robert Crais in that particular line.
    Ah yes, Bosch. I used to devour them on holiday. Ages ago now but I think I recall he was standard 'tough guy with a heart' material but with the quirk that he knocked up a good pasta (and quite often did).
    I am now astounded that I used to hang on Patricia Cornwell's every book. The past is indeed a foreign country.
    Yep - read those too. Kay Scarpetta. Solid work. And I'm confident of low-browing you off the court with Robert Walker's "Jessica Coran" potboilers. There's no way you would have spent hours with them, but I did.
    The Sue Grafton books are my favourite trash.
    She started writing them in the 80's, and kept on going for decades, still setting them in the 80s. Quite the nostalgia trip.
    Ah, heard off but never read any. One of the 1st with a female (private) dick apparently per a quick wiki. And she didn't do a "Z is for ..." for some reason. Stopped at Y.
    My son has started reading them, which feels strange.
    Wish mine would read ANY books. It's a dying habit, I fear. And I'm just as bad. I get through maybe 5 a year now cf 20 in the past. And that's with being retired cf working, so it ought to have gone the other way. I should be tearing through the oeuvres and genres!
    I used to read a book a week, easy, now way down. Of course the main explanation is the incubus of the internet sucking out everything, but I wonder if it's also time running out and not enough left to waste on even okayish (as opposed to outright trash) stuff.
    Yes, the digital takeover is definitely a part of it. I read lots of 'stuff' online but it doesn't work for me for books, fiction or non.

    Re time running out, yes, that's a factor too. You don't want to burn it.

    And there's something with me about this which is (I know) rather stupid and negative. Not so much about not picking up new books but more about not trying to learn new skills. Eg piano. Always fancied that and now have the time. But let's say I took it up and it turns out I have some talent for it. Unlikely but possible. That would be great in one sense. But in another it would be very galling because I'd be kicking myself for not doing it when young and able to put in the fabled 10,000 hours and be properly good.

    So you kind of just cruise in neutral to the grave. Can't find suitably precise emoticon for this 'sad but not really' sentiment.
  • Options
    noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,708

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:


    That’s them told

    Are you not going to post his next proclamation, where he announces that he is transitioning and will be playing for the USWNT in the 2024 Olympics?
    The scope creep with the "Woke" bomb (as used by the crazy Right) is becoming absurd now.

    It's come to mean anything and everything about the modern world that irritates blokes who'd prefer to live in the 1950s version of it.
    Of course, if you oppose anything woke, you just want to return to the 50s. Right.

    Plenty of women also not happy about quite a bit of wokery, especially around the trans issue. Never had Linda Bellos and Germaine Greer as a pair of grizzled blokes looking for a return to the 50s but there you go.
    But you know what I mean. Stuff like this Trump latest (if not fake) or over here, 'GB rowing' no longer dominating the gold medals because they've "gone woke". I mean, c'mon.

    Hey and being radical in the 60s is no protection against being reactionary now. There are loads of examples of this. Isn't the Woodstock guy a high end property developer now? Something like that anyway. I don't buy the generality that people move right with age but certainly some do.
    Both cycling and rowing have lost their coaches with, er, a reputation for borrowing Alex Ferguson's hairdryer.

    It is hard to argue that the method wasn't successful, but is it acceptable?

    I don't imagine the Chinese coaching is particularly sentimental.
    On cycling the new coaches have got significantly better times out of the athletes than the old coaches. In the team time trials we were about 2% faster this time than in Rio, the problem has been other countries improving by 3-5% rather than us going backwards. We are still performing very well, and it will be tough for any country, let alone just the UK specifically to repeat the dominance we had from 2004-16. That was an exception rather than something sustainable.

    Rowing there is an experience gap in both coaches and rowers, so should see an improvement in 2024.
  • Options
    FF43FF43 Posts: 15,709
    Not usually much into the apocalypse, but this is a bit of a downer. Apparently the Gulf Stream is on the point of collapse, leading to worldwide starvation and the end of civilisation. Kind of nowish.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited August 2021
    Nigelb said:

    It's not just the racial attitudes of the 19thC that the US right are embracing...

    Florida woman who's an antimasker "wants to promote health the way her generation’s grandparents experienced it. 'When they got sick, they didn’t need the crutch of pharmaceuticals or antibiotics to get better. They just got sick and they got well.'”
    https://twitter.com/BGrueskin/status/1422760495631716353

    (Though it should be noted that vaccination of sorts was a thing back then, too.)


    Ah, she wants to go back to the time of frequent lockdowns and whole town quarantines that routinely occurred in America before the Polio vaccination was available?

    What's that? She doesn't want lockdowns and quarantine either?

    Also relevant

    https://twitter.com/PessimistsArc/status/1339924685874753538?s=19
    https://twitter.com/PessimistsArc/status/1337531227511906304?s=19
    https://twitter.com/PessimistsArc/status/1334660681233215488?s=19
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,658
    edited August 2021
    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    philiph said:

    On topic, Sunak's going to become as unpopular as an ex with the clap if he keeps the triple lock, cuts the UC uplift, and generally puts up payroll taxes.

    When do we find out and can we bet on it/them?
    Well the UC uplift ends next month, so that will be pretty soon either way.

    As for the rest, pass, there's talk of moving to budget to next year now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/16/covid-impact-forces-sunak-to-consider-delaying-budget-until-next-year
    The triple lock does need to go - though aware it appeals to much of the Tories base. Though in the spirit of fairness if I end up paying more tax whilst the oldies are showered with goodies than the resentment will just build.
    Indeed. At some point the younger voters will finally turn out and vote.

    I mean, just get rid of the NI exemption for pensionable age workers for starters.
    That really is an obvious (if painful) place to start. Also fully logical as there is no longer an age at which retirement from the workplace is taken. Gone are the days of 60 female / 65 male. People can opt to continue in employment and so should continue to make the same contributions.
    Rationalising National Insurance does make sense. But I have never understood PB Tories' animosity to the triple lock. The full state pension is less than £10,000 a year which is less than the minimum wage. It is as mysterious as all those backbenchers who used to demand concessions for garden centres.
    It'd make more sense to merge NI and income tax, and abolish the allowances for bank interest and share dividends, and tax income fairly. And leave the triple lock.
    I agree with that exception for the allowance on bank interest and dividends.

    Re bank interest I have no objection to the allowance being removed other than it removes the need for collecting peanuts and the associated cost of collecting peanuts so it might make sense to have an allowance just for that reason.

    Re dividends. Where to start. Gordon Brown completely screwed this up just so he could nobble then pension funds. George Osborne promised to put this right, but he lied and pretended he had. As a consequence the link between dividends and Corporation Tax/ACT is completely broken now. The £5000 helped for small shareholders. Philip Hammond made it worse by reducing it to £2000. For all the buggering around you might as well eliminate it other than the admin factor, but in reality the sensible set up that had worked for decades should be reintroduced. Meddling chancellors!
    I think there may also be a case for changes to Winter Fuel Allowance, which currently costs of the order of 2-3 billion a year and is rather indiscrimate.

    It is better to be spending the money on measures to reduce demand for heating imo.
    Agree. Also the Christmas bonus is now pointless. It was a shock when I got mine for the first time last year, £10!

    Won't save much. I imagine the admin probably approaches the value.
    WFP is very important in the north and west - cutting it would be very unwelcome. And because it is generally flat rate it is easy to deal with.

    Edit: with energy costs going up, it might actually have to be increased.

    Christmas bonus costs nothing to administer other than the bank payment - from what I recall of doing a relative's executry the tenner just pops up in your bank account beside the appropriate four-weekly state pension payment.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,500

    Nigelb said:

    It's not just the racial attitudes of the 19thC that the US right are embracing...

    Florida woman who's an antimasker "wants to promote health the way her generation’s grandparents experienced it. 'When they got sick, they didn’t need the crutch of pharmaceuticals or antibiotics to get better. They just got sick and they got well.'”
    https://twitter.com/BGrueskin/status/1422760495631716353

    (Though it should be noted that vaccination of sorts was a thing back then, too.)

    What's particularly funny about that (apart from the obvious point that when they got sick, a lot of them died) is that the loony Florida woman's lawsuit is about the wearing of masks on planes. I mean, if she wants to be like her grandparents' generation, why the hell is she flying anywhere in the first place?
    Away with your wokeist questions !
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,500

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:


    That’s them told

    Are you not going to post his next proclamation, where he announces that he is transitioning and will be playing for the USWNT in the 2024 Olympics?
    The scope creep with the "Woke" bomb (as used by the crazy Right) is becoming absurd now.

    It's come to mean anything and everything about the modern world that irritates blokes who'd prefer to live in the 1950s version of it.
    Of course, if you oppose anything woke, you just want to return to the 50s. Right.

    Plenty of women also not happy about quite a bit of wokery, especially around the trans issue. Never had Linda Bellos and Germaine Greer as a pair of grizzled blokes looking for a return to the 50s but there you go.
    But you know what I mean. Stuff like this Trump latest (if not fake) or over here, 'GB rowing' no longer dominating the gold medals because they've "gone woke". I mean, c'mon.

    Hey and being radical in the 60s is no protection against being reactionary now. There are loads of examples of this. Isn't the Woodstock guy a high end property developer now? Something like that anyway. I don't buy the generality that people move right with age but certainly some do.
    Both cycling and rowing have lost their coaches with, er, a reputation for borrowing Alex Ferguson's hairdryer.

    It is hard to argue that the method wasn't successful, but is it acceptable?

    I don't imagine the Chinese coaching is particularly sentimental.
    I thought the rowing coach left because he is in his seventies, and didn't want to stay on the extra Covid imposed year ?
    Yes, but that doesn't mean he didn't have a reputation!
    Indeed - but we wanted him to stay.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,658

    Cookie said:


    Ireland pretty spread out on that measure too. Aside from Dublin there are a lot of small towns, widely spaced.
    Scotland and Ireland are si.ilar in size and population but in Scotland they are massively concentrated in the Central Belt: much more evenly spread in Ireland.

    Doesn't obviously explain the difference in vaccine take-up in the younger age groups, though.
    The first four things I'd consider would be:

    1. Superior education system/outcomes/culture.

    2. Greater importance of emigration, for which being vaccinated will likely be very helpful at least.

    3. Use of vaccine certification for entry into indoor hospitality.

    4. Strong pharmaceutical industry in Ireland which probably has a better reputation in Ireland as a result of national pride than it does in Britain (despite us also having a strong pharmaceutical industry and actually having developed one of the vaccines, pointing to a cultural difference again).
    Yes, good hypotheses. Another I thought of is the fact that there was a lot of unfavourable comparison with the UK earlier in the year when Ireland was way behind us in the vaccine rollout, and perhaps that has contributed to a national consensus that they needed to catch up.
    Not so much emigration as working in the EU (and UK-minus-NI) and coming home, also.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,180
    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    And 'burner' has also appeared in every single Michael Connelly novel for the past decade.

    Of course everyone knows what they are.

    Who is Michael Connolly?
    A best selling trashy novelist, and I mean proper best selling, creator of Harry Bosch. Ok for passing the time on a sun lounger though the series is a bit exhausted now. I prefer Robert Crais in that particular line.
    Ah yes, Bosch. I used to devour them on holiday. Ages ago now but I think I recall he was standard 'tough guy with a heart' material but with the quirk that he knocked up a good pasta (and quite often did).
    I am now astounded that I used to hang on Patricia Cornwell's every book. The past is indeed a foreign country.
    Yep - read those too. Kay Scarpetta. Solid work. And I'm confident of low-browing you off the court with Robert Walker's "Jessica Coran" potboilers. There's no way you would have spent hours with them, but I did.
    The Sue Grafton books are my favourite trash.
    She started writing them in the 80's, and kept on going for decades, still setting them in the 80s. Quite the nostalgia trip.
    Ah, heard off but never read any. One of the 1st with a female (private) dick apparently per a quick wiki. And she didn't do a "Z is for ..." for some reason. Stopped at Y.
    My son has started reading them, which feels strange.
    Wish mine would read ANY books. It's a dying habit, I fear. And I'm just as bad. I get through maybe 5 a year now cf 20 in the past. And that's with being retired cf working, so it ought to have gone the other way. I should be tearing through the oeuvres and genres!
    I get through 3-6 per night (depending on whether I'm doing bed time for the three year old with 'big boy' books or the 1 year old with 'baby' books).

    And also 10-15 proper grown up books (without pictures) per year. We do the Netflix etc series, but every now and again we get into a reading phase, the telly doesn't go on and we snuggle up with books. Probably why we still haven't finished Game of Thrones or Line of Duty. Compromises have to be made.
    Sounds a good balance. Yes unless you're a total powerhouse you cannot stay abreast of all the quality TV drama that there is these days AND read lots of books.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:



    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    Well off old white Tory blokes completely bewildered at newfangled "marketing" by Labour.

    It will never catch on, says @BannedInParis.

    tha't the second time you have referenced colour to make a dig. Try substituting another colour and see what it looks like.
    Well off old pink Tory blokes completely bewildered at newfangled "marketing" by Labour.

    Looks just fine.
    As a gay Tory I resent that on many more levels - especially as my Mediterranean tan has not a hint of pink about it.
    What about it is it that you resent?
    Simply that you seem to think you're totally tuned in to your Liberal vibe while you're just as full of the same old prejudices and stereotypes as the rest of us and completely unaware of it. I'm old, white, gay and proud - in your world all three seem to justify slurs and sneers. Clueless.
    That was some leap. You're an old, white, Tory. As are so many on PB.

    It was not a huge deductive leap for me to work out that that was what you are. And I was right. Oh and you're gay, thanks for telling me.

    And old, white, (gay or not gay) Tories have shown themselves to be bewildered by Lab's latest marketing strategy or rather, by Jon Trickett's tweet.

    Get over yourself and embrace the truth would be my advice.
    Apparently it was pretty hard for you to understand the other day that I also voted remain. Maybe you could try removing your own blinkered views about race/age/sexuality before handing out unsolicited advice to others.

    Jeez if leaping to conclusions was an Olympic sport you would win gold ("gold" is ok to use, is it?).

    The other day you said you loathed the EU. Which is pretty funny as you live in the EU regardless of how you voted although if I were using my Sherlock Holmes powers again (easy when it comes to you) I would say you voted Remain because you wanted the EU to maintain links to your homeland rather than anything else and if so fair enough.

    And now, because I correctly identify the preponderance of old, white, Tory PB-ers, of which you are one such, I have blinkered views about race/age/sexuality [??].

    You are an old, white, Tory who can't understand a tweet aimed at Lab's supporters who include many people who are old and white but perhaps not so many as Cons' supporters or PB denizens.

    You are looking to be outraged where there is no reason to be outraged.
    And you are pretty thick it seems. Once you use any 'ism' to sneer as you do you give carte 'noir' [sic] for all of it. For the record I understand the tweet - not completely gaga - just think it is pretty lame, like your attempts to gloss over your prejudices. Clearly you don't get it and never will. Such is life.
    Yes but how did the you being gay thing fit into it all?
    If i had a pink € for every time some fool has asked that.
    You'd have 85p?
    Oh way more you're not the only fool I was thinking of....
    Must be very frustrating having so many fools in your life. I would perhaps take a break from PB will cut down the ration dramatically.
    There you go with your 'sadvice' again.
  • Options
    AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    FF43 said:

    Not usually much into the apocalypse, but this is a bit of a downer. Apparently the Gulf Stream is on the point of collapse, leading to worldwide starvation and the end of civilisation. Kind of nowish.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse

    The UK is proper fucked if the gulf stream goes wonkey.

    Look at our latitude and think about how much snow everywhere else at this latitude gets in winter.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,326

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:


    That’s them told

    Are you not going to post his next proclamation, where he announces that he is transitioning and will be playing for the USWNT in the 2024 Olympics?
    The scope creep with the "Woke" bomb (as used by the crazy Right) is becoming absurd now.

    It's come to mean anything and everything about the modern world that irritates blokes who'd prefer to live in the 1950s version of it.
    Of course, if you oppose anything woke, you just want to return to the 50s. Right.

    Plenty of women also not happy about quite a bit of wokery, especially around the trans issue. Never had Linda Bellos and Germaine Greer as a pair of grizzled blokes looking for a return to the 50s but there you go.
    But you know what I mean. Stuff like this Trump latest (if not fake) or over here, 'GB rowing' no longer dominating the gold medals because they've "gone woke". I mean, c'mon.

    Hey and being radical in the 60s is no protection against being reactionary now. There are loads of examples of this. Isn't the Woodstock guy a high end property developer now? Something like that anyway. I don't buy the generality that people move right with age but certainly some do.
    Both cycling and rowing have lost their coaches with, er, a reputation for borrowing Alex Ferguson's hairdryer.

    It is hard to argue that the method wasn't successful, but is it acceptable?

    I don't imagine the Chinese coaching is particularly sentimental.
    I thought the rowing coach left because he is in his seventies, and didn't want to stay on the extra Covid imposed year ?
    Yes, but that doesn't mean he didn't have a reputation!
    Briefly, there was a coup/replacement of alot of people in the rowing coaching world. The new guys are more popularist, if you like.

    Interestingly, several people associated with the old way of doing things now coach for China.
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,119
    edited August 2021
    DougSeal said:


    Covid Fact Check UK
    @fact_covid

    680 England hospital admissions reported for Tuesday versus 816 last week, so a drop of 17%.

    The seven-day average falls to 677 compared with 697 the previous day and 793 last week (down 15%).

    4,894 beds occupied vs 4,944 yesterday and 5,056 last Thursday.

    https://twitter.com/fact_covid/status/1423304730093182976

    As ever, hospitalisations are simply following infections, with a time lag. According to the REACT study, even the constant of proportionality between the two is now the same as it's been throughout most of the pandemic, the protective effect of the vaccines being almost exactly cancelled out by increased severity of the Delta variant in the unvaccinated.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    edited August 2021
    FF43 said:

    Not usually much into the apocalypse, but this is a bit of a downer. Apparently the Gulf Stream is on the point of collapse, leading to worldwide starvation and the end of civilisation. Kind of nowish.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse

    They should make a movie about it ...oh wait they did.



  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    For those who can't find the time/inclination/wrench of being away from PB to read as much as they did, I have two suggestions:

    1) Subscribe to Granta - usually fantastic literature in bite-size chunks; and
    2) Buy all the Booker shortlist nominees - usually 80% great books

    If they are around then it's easy to pick one up.

    Will be sorry to see so many of you spend time away from PB but hey it's all for the best.

    Speaking of which - where is Philip T? Nose in a good book, I'd warrant.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,658
    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    And 'burner' has also appeared in every single Michael Connelly novel for the past decade.

    Of course everyone knows what they are.

    Who is Michael Connolly?
    A best selling trashy novelist, and I mean proper best selling, creator of Harry Bosch. Ok for passing the time on a sun lounger though the series is a bit exhausted now. I prefer Robert Crais in that particular line.
    Ah yes, Bosch. I used to devour them on holiday. Ages ago now but I think I recall he was standard 'tough guy with a heart' material but with the quirk that he knocked up a good pasta (and quite often did).
    I am now astounded that I used to hang on Patricia Cornwell's every book. The past is indeed a foreign country.
    Yep - read those too. Kay Scarpetta. Solid work. And I'm confident of low-browing you off the court with Robert Walker's "Jessica Coran" potboilers. There's no way you would have spent hours with them, but I did.
    The Sue Grafton books are my favourite trash.
    She started writing them in the 80's, and kept on going for decades, still setting them in the 80s. Quite the nostalgia trip.
    Ah, heard off but never read any. One of the 1st with a female (private) dick apparently per a quick wiki. And she didn't do a "Z is for ..." for some reason. Stopped at Y.
    My son has started reading them, which feels strange.
    Wish mine would read ANY books. It's a dying habit, I fear. And I'm just as bad. I get through maybe 5 a year now cf 20 in the past. And that's with being retired cf working, so it ought to have gone the other way. I should be tearing through the oeuvres and genres!
    I get through 3-6 per night (depending on whether I'm doing bed time for the three year old with 'big boy' books or the 1 year old with 'baby' books).

    And also 10-15 proper grown up books (without pictures) per year. We do the Netflix etc series, but every now and again we get into a reading phase, the telly doesn't go on and we snuggle up with books. Probably why we still haven't finished Game of Thrones or Line of Duty. Compromises have to be made.
    Sounds a good balance. Yes unless you're a total powerhouse you cannot stay abreast of all the quality TV drama that there is these days AND read lots of books.
    Quite. I stopped bothering with TV at all years ago though I do have some decent DVDs, some still to watch.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 40,914
    edited August 2021
    Shades of De Niro & Pacino in Heat



  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983
    edited August 2021
    Alistair said:

    FF43 said:

    Not usually much into the apocalypse, but this is a bit of a downer. Apparently the Gulf Stream is on the point of collapse, leading to worldwide starvation and the end of civilisation. Kind of nowish.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse

    The UK is proper fucked if the gulf stream goes wonkey.

    Look at our latitude and think about how much snow everywhere else at this latitude gets in winter.
    Yet only a week ago we were told summer temperatures in the UK would reach 40 degrees celcius.
    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-summers-to-hit-40c-21168329

    So maybe we are heading for freezing winters and scorching summers
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

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    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

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    TOPPING said:

    Well off old white Tory blokes completely bewildered at newfangled "marketing" by Labour.

    It will never catch on, says @BannedInParis.

    tha't the second time you have referenced colour to make a dig. Try substituting another colour and see what it looks like.
    Well off old pink Tory blokes completely bewildered at newfangled "marketing" by Labour.

    Looks just fine.
    As a gay Tory I resent that on many more levels - especially as my Mediterranean tan has not a hint of pink about it.
    What about it is it that you resent?
    Simply that you seem to think you're totally tuned in to your Liberal vibe while you're just as full of the same old prejudices and stereotypes as the rest of us and completely unaware of it. I'm old, white, gay and proud - in your world all three seem to justify slurs and sneers. Clueless.
    That was some leap. You're an old, white, Tory. As are so many on PB.

    It was not a huge deductive leap for me to work out that that was what you are. And I was right. Oh and you're gay, thanks for telling me.

    And old, white, (gay or not gay) Tories have shown themselves to be bewildered by Lab's latest marketing strategy or rather, by Jon Trickett's tweet.

    Get over yourself and embrace the truth would be my advice.
    Apparently it was pretty hard for you to understand the other day that I also voted remain. Maybe you could try removing your own blinkered views about race/age/sexuality before handing out unsolicited advice to others.

    Jeez if leaping to conclusions was an Olympic sport you would win gold ("gold" is ok to use, is it?).

    The other day you said you loathed the EU. Which is pretty funny as you live in the EU regardless of how you voted although if I were using my Sherlock Holmes powers again (easy when it comes to you) I would say you voted Remain because you wanted the EU to maintain links to your homeland rather than anything else and if so fair enough.

    And now, because I correctly identify the preponderance of old, white, Tory PB-ers, of which you are one such, I have blinkered views about race/age/sexuality [??].

    You are an old, white, Tory who can't understand a tweet aimed at Lab's supporters who include many people who are old and white but perhaps not so many as Cons' supporters or PB denizens.

    You are looking to be outraged where there is no reason to be outraged.
    And you are pretty thick it seems. Once you use any 'ism' to sneer as you do you give carte 'noir' [sic] for all of it. For the record I understand the tweet - not completely gaga - just think it is pretty lame, like your attempts to gloss over your prejudices. Clearly you don't get it and never will. Such is life.
    Yes but how did the you being gay thing fit into it all?
    If i had a pink € for every time some fool has asked that.
    You'd have 85p?
    Oh way more you're not the only fool I was thinking of....
    Must be very frustrating having so many fools in your life. I would perhaps take a break from PB will cut down the ration dramatically.
    There you go with your 'sadvice' again.
    You old white Tories are incorrigible aren't you.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,020
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    And 'burner' has also appeared in every single Michael Connelly novel for the past decade.

    Of course everyone knows what they are.

    Who is Michael Connolly?
    A best selling trashy novelist, and I mean proper best selling, creator of Harry Bosch. Ok for passing the time on a sun lounger though the series is a bit exhausted now. I prefer Robert Crais in that particular line.
    Ah yes, Bosch. I used to devour them on holiday. Ages ago now but I think I recall he was standard 'tough guy with a heart' material but with the quirk that he knocked up a good pasta (and quite often did).
    I am now astounded that I used to hang on Patricia Cornwell's every book. The past is indeed a foreign country.
    Yep - read those too. Kay Scarpetta. Solid work. And I'm confident of low-browing you off the court with Robert Walker's "Jessica Coran" potboilers. There's no way you would have spent hours with them, but I did.
    The Sue Grafton books are my favourite trash.
    She started writing them in the 80's, and kept on going for decades, still setting them in the 80s. Quite the nostalgia trip.
    Ah, heard off but never read any. One of the 1st with a female (private) dick apparently per a quick wiki. And she didn't do a "Z is for ..." for some reason. Stopped at Y.
    My son has started reading them, which feels strange.
    Wish mine would read ANY books. It's a dying habit, I fear. And I'm just as bad. I get through maybe 5 a year now cf 20 in the past. And that's with being retired cf working, so it ought to have gone the other way. I should be tearing through the oeuvres and genres!
    I used to read a book a week, easy, now way down. Of course the main explanation is the incubus of the internet sucking out everything, but I wonder if it's also time running out and not enough left to waste on even okayish (as opposed to outright trash) stuff.
    Yes, the digital takeover is definitely a part of it. I read lots of 'stuff' online but it doesn't work for me for books, fiction or non.

    Re time running out, yes, that's a factor too. You don't want to burn it.

    And there's something with me about this which is (I know) rather stupid and negative. Not so much about not picking up new books but more about not trying to learn new skills. Eg piano. Always fancied that and now have the time. But let's say I took it up and it turns out I have some talent for it. Unlikely but possible. That would be great in one sense. But in another it would be very galling because I'd be kicking myself for not doing it when young and able to put in the fabled 10,000 hours and be properly good.

    So you kind of just cruise in neutral to the grave. Can't find suitably precise emoticon for this 'sad but not really' sentiment.
    Weltschmerz covers it for me, though it doesn't yet have an emoticon afaics.
    Which on the new skills thing remind me I need to do my daily German Duolingo. I'm determined to be able to speak conversational German before I shuffle off, but fair to say I have not turned out to have some talent for it.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:



    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

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    felix said:

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    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    Well off old white Tory blokes completely bewildered at newfangled "marketing" by Labour.

    It will never catch on, says @BannedInParis.

    tha't the second time you have referenced colour to make a dig. Try substituting another colour and see what it looks like.
    Well off old pink Tory blokes completely bewildered at newfangled "marketing" by Labour.

    Looks just fine.
    As a gay Tory I resent that on many more levels - especially as my Mediterranean tan has not a hint of pink about it.
    What about it is it that you resent?
    Simply that you seem to think you're totally tuned in to your Liberal vibe while you're just as full of the same old prejudices and stereotypes as the rest of us and completely unaware of it. I'm old, white, gay and proud - in your world all three seem to justify slurs and sneers. Clueless.
    That was some leap. You're an old, white, Tory. As are so many on PB.

    It was not a huge deductive leap for me to work out that that was what you are. And I was right. Oh and you're gay, thanks for telling me.

    And old, white, (gay or not gay) Tories have shown themselves to be bewildered by Lab's latest marketing strategy or rather, by Jon Trickett's tweet.

    Get over yourself and embrace the truth would be my advice.
    Apparently it was pretty hard for you to understand the other day that I also voted remain. Maybe you could try removing your own blinkered views about race/age/sexuality before handing out unsolicited advice to others.

    Jeez if leaping to conclusions was an Olympic sport you would win gold ("gold" is ok to use, is it?).

    The other day you said you loathed the EU. Which is pretty funny as you live in the EU regardless of how you voted although if I were using my Sherlock Holmes powers again (easy when it comes to you) I would say you voted Remain because you wanted the EU to maintain links to your homeland rather than anything else and if so fair enough.

    And now, because I correctly identify the preponderance of old, white, Tory PB-ers, of which you are one such, I have blinkered views about race/age/sexuality [??].

    You are an old, white, Tory who can't understand a tweet aimed at Lab's supporters who include many people who are old and white but perhaps not so many as Cons' supporters or PB denizens.

    You are looking to be outraged where there is no reason to be outraged.
    And you are pretty thick it seems. Once you use any 'ism' to sneer as you do you give carte 'noir' [sic] for all of it. For the record I understand the tweet - not completely gaga - just think it is pretty lame, like your attempts to gloss over your prejudices. Clearly you don't get it and never will. Such is life.
    Yes but how did the you being gay thing fit into it all?
    If i had a pink € for every time some fool has asked that.
    You'd have 85p?
    Oh way more you're not the only fool I was thinking of....
    Must be very frustrating having so many fools in your life. I would perhaps take a break from PB will cut down the ration dramatically.
    There you go with your 'sadvice' again.
    You old white Tories are incorrigible aren't you.
    Never tired of calling out losers.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719
    Typical for discussion of Yorkshire

    "The subsequent survey had over 4500 respondents making it the biggest and **most statistically valid survey** of the Yorkshire people"

    The fact your convenience sample is fairly big does not suddenly make it statistically valid. FFS!


    https://twitter.com/anthonyjwells/status/1423273742826819587
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    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

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    felix said:

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    felix said:

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    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

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    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    Well off old white Tory blokes completely bewildered at newfangled "marketing" by Labour.

    It will never catch on, says @BannedInParis.

    tha't the second time you have referenced colour to make a dig. Try substituting another colour and see what it looks like.
    Well off old pink Tory blokes completely bewildered at newfangled "marketing" by Labour.

    Looks just fine.
    As a gay Tory I resent that on many more levels - especially as my Mediterranean tan has not a hint of pink about it.
    What about it is it that you resent?
    Simply that you seem to think you're totally tuned in to your Liberal vibe while you're just as full of the same old prejudices and stereotypes as the rest of us and completely unaware of it. I'm old, white, gay and proud - in your world all three seem to justify slurs and sneers. Clueless.
    That was some leap. You're an old, white, Tory. As are so many on PB.

    It was not a huge deductive leap for me to work out that that was what you are. And I was right. Oh and you're gay, thanks for telling me.

    And old, white, (gay or not gay) Tories have shown themselves to be bewildered by Lab's latest marketing strategy or rather, by Jon Trickett's tweet.

    Get over yourself and embrace the truth would be my advice.
    Apparently it was pretty hard for you to understand the other day that I also voted remain. Maybe you could try removing your own blinkered views about race/age/sexuality before handing out unsolicited advice to others.

    Jeez if leaping to conclusions was an Olympic sport you would win gold ("gold" is ok to use, is it?).

    The other day you said you loathed the EU. Which is pretty funny as you live in the EU regardless of how you voted although if I were using my Sherlock Holmes powers again (easy when it comes to you) I would say you voted Remain because you wanted the EU to maintain links to your homeland rather than anything else and if so fair enough.

    And now, because I correctly identify the preponderance of old, white, Tory PB-ers, of which you are one such, I have blinkered views about race/age/sexuality [??].

    You are an old, white, Tory who can't understand a tweet aimed at Lab's supporters who include many people who are old and white but perhaps not so many as Cons' supporters or PB denizens.

    You are looking to be outraged where there is no reason to be outraged.
    And you are pretty thick it seems. Once you use any 'ism' to sneer as you do you give carte 'noir' [sic] for all of it. For the record I understand the tweet - not completely gaga - just think it is pretty lame, like your attempts to gloss over your prejudices. Clearly you don't get it and never will. Such is life.
    Yes but how did the you being gay thing fit into it all?
    If i had a pink € for every time some fool has asked that.
    You'd have 85p?
    Oh way more you're not the only fool I was thinking of....
    Must be very frustrating having so many fools in your life. I would perhaps take a break from PB will cut down the ration dramatically.
    There you go with your 'sadvice' again.
    You old white Tories are incorrigible aren't you.
    Never tired of calling out losers.
    I know. It can be tiresome but thanks for your support I'll keep at it.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,500
    "An overwhelming majority of Canadians want people who are not vaccinated against #COVID19 banned from gatherings in public places, a new poll has found..."

    https://twitter.com/BogochIsaac/status/1423239981817122825
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,157

    malcolmg said:

    Heathener said:

    And 'burner' has also appeared in every single Michael Connelly novel for the past decade.

    Of course everyone knows what they are.

    Who is Michael Connolly?
    Not a book reader then
    Currently reading R. D, Blackmore's Lorna Doone, so about 150 years to catch up. Mainly read history and science, with the cheeky bit of historical fiction thrown in.
    The only book I know that features my old school…
    Blundells? Did you meet a guy called Mark Tranchant, nickname, Troon whilst there?
    Name doesn’t ring a bell. I was there a very long time ago…
    Probably around 1988
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,617
    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    philiph said:

    On topic, Sunak's going to become as unpopular as an ex with the clap if he keeps the triple lock, cuts the UC uplift, and generally puts up payroll taxes.

    When do we find out and can we bet on it/them?
    Well the UC uplift ends next month, so that will be pretty soon either way.

    As for the rest, pass, there's talk of moving to budget to next year now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/16/covid-impact-forces-sunak-to-consider-delaying-budget-until-next-year
    The triple lock does need to go - though aware it appeals to much of the Tories base. Though in the spirit of fairness if I end up paying more tax whilst the oldies are showered with goodies than the resentment will just build.
    Indeed. At some point the younger voters will finally turn out and vote.

    I mean, just get rid of the NI exemption for pensionable age workers for starters.
    That really is an obvious (if painful) place to start. Also fully logical as there is no longer an age at which retirement from the workplace is taken. Gone are the days of 60 female / 65 male. People can opt to continue in employment and so should continue to make the same contributions.
    Rationalising National Insurance does make sense. But I have never understood PB Tories' animosity to the triple lock. The full state pension is less than £10,000 a year which is less than the minimum wage. It is as mysterious as all those backbenchers who used to demand concessions for garden centres.
    It'd make more sense to merge NI and income tax, and abolish the allowances for bank interest and share dividends, and tax income fairly. And leave the triple lock.
    I agree with that exception for the allowance on bank interest and dividends.

    Re bank interest I have no objection to the allowance being removed other than it removes the need for collecting peanuts and the associated cost of collecting peanuts so it might make sense to have an allowance just for that reason.

    Re dividends. Where to start. Gordon Brown completely screwed this up just so he could nobble then pension funds. George Osborne promised to put this right, but he lied and pretended he had. As a consequence the link between dividends and Corporation Tax/ACT is completely broken now. The £5000 helped for small shareholders. Philip Hammond made it worse by reducing it to £2000. For all the buggering around you might as well eliminate it other than the admin factor, but in reality the sensible set up that had worked for decades should be reintroduced. Meddling chancellors!
    Hmm. The banks used to deduct 20% (or whatever basic rate was) of interest at source so effectively your tax return was done for you if you were standard rate, your PAYE was OK and you had no change in circumstances, surely. HMG got a few very fat cheques and the taxpayers hads to do little. You did have to fill in a form if you were below tax levels but it was quite easy. However, as you say something to be said for giving an allowance to reduce admin and at the same time make sure most of the smaller income people still get their interest in full - though £1000 is, in the outcome. absurdly high in the current financial regime.

    Dividends, I forget the subtler details already, but surely they were also deducted at source, as I recall (or more accurately a notional tax paid voucher was provided alongside what you got)? It does need to be counted somehow as income for income tax purposes else you end up with distortions, but it's easy enough to gross that up.
    Re bank interest - still stuff needed doing. I can't remember the reason for the change but if it was for that reason it doesn't make sense to reintroduce doing stuff. But with current interest rates the allowance could be reduced I guess. This is all peanuts until interest rates go up.

    Re dividends it ameliorated double taxation. It has already been taxed with Corporation Tax. The link with dividends and using ACT was very neat.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    Nigelb said:

    "An overwhelming majority of Canadians want people who are not vaccinated against #COVID19 banned from gatherings in public places, a new poll has found..."

    https://twitter.com/BogochIsaac/status/1423239981817122825

    Analagous to the 17% of Brits who want us locked down now.
  • Options
    felixfelix Posts: 15,124
    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:



    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    Well off old white Tory blokes completely bewildered at newfangled "marketing" by Labour.

    It will never catch on, says @BannedInParis.

    tha't the second time you have referenced colour to make a dig. Try substituting another colour and see what it looks like.
    Well off old pink Tory blokes completely bewildered at newfangled "marketing" by Labour.

    Looks just fine.
    As a gay Tory I resent that on many more levels - especially as my Mediterranean tan has not a hint of pink about it.
    What about it is it that you resent?
    Simply that you seem to think you're totally tuned in to your Liberal vibe while you're just as full of the same old prejudices and stereotypes as the rest of us and completely unaware of it. I'm old, white, gay and proud - in your world all three seem to justify slurs and sneers. Clueless.
    That was some leap. You're an old, white, Tory. As are so many on PB.

    It was not a huge deductive leap for me to work out that that was what you are. And I was right. Oh and you're gay, thanks for telling me.

    And old, white, (gay or not gay) Tories have shown themselves to be bewildered by Lab's latest marketing strategy or rather, by Jon Trickett's tweet.

    Get over yourself and embrace the truth would be my advice.
    Apparently it was pretty hard for you to understand the other day that I also voted remain. Maybe you could try removing your own blinkered views about race/age/sexuality before handing out unsolicited advice to others.

    Jeez if leaping to conclusions was an Olympic sport you would win gold ("gold" is ok to use, is it?).

    The other day you said you loathed the EU. Which is pretty funny as you live in the EU regardless of how you voted although if I were using my Sherlock Holmes powers again (easy when it comes to you) I would say you voted Remain because you wanted the EU to maintain links to your homeland rather than anything else and if so fair enough.

    And now, because I correctly identify the preponderance of old, white, Tory PB-ers, of which you are one such, I have blinkered views about race/age/sexuality [??].

    You are an old, white, Tory who can't understand a tweet aimed at Lab's supporters who include many people who are old and white but perhaps not so many as Cons' supporters or PB denizens.

    You are looking to be outraged where there is no reason to be outraged.
    And you are pretty thick it seems. Once you use any 'ism' to sneer as you do you give carte 'noir' [sic] for all of it. For the record I understand the tweet - not completely gaga - just think it is pretty lame, like your attempts to gloss over your prejudices. Clearly you don't get it and never will. Such is life.
    Yes but how did the you being gay thing fit into it all?
    If i had a pink € for every time some fool has asked that.
    You'd have 85p?
    Oh way more you're not the only fool I was thinking of....
    Must be very frustrating having so many fools in your life. I would perhaps take a break from PB will cut down the ration dramatically.
    There you go with your 'sadvice' again.
    You old white Tories are incorrigible aren't you.
    Never tired of calling out losers.
    I know. It can be tiresome but thanks for your support I'll keep at it.
    Don't forget to focus on the key issues - like skin colour and age - seems to be your thang!
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,364
    edited August 2021
    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    "An overwhelming majority of Canadians want people who are not vaccinated against #COVID19 banned from gatherings in public places, a new poll has found..."

    https://twitter.com/BogochIsaac/status/1423239981817122825

    Analagous to the 17% of Brits who want us locked down now.
    Fake news.

    These Cannucks want internment for plague spreaders.

    #IStandWithCanada
  • Options
    FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 3,885
    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    FF43 said:

    Not usually much into the apocalypse, but this is a bit of a downer. Apparently the Gulf Stream is on the point of collapse, leading to worldwide starvation and the end of civilisation. Kind of nowish.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse

    The UK is proper fucked if the gulf stream goes wonkey.

    Look at our latitude and think about how much snow everywhere else at this latitude gets in winter.
    Yet only a week ago we were told summer temperatures in the UK would reach 40 degrees celcius.
    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-summers-to-hit-40c-21168329

    So maybe we are heading for freezing winters and scorching summers
    I'd buy that, to be honest. Might get more use out of the cross country skis.

    It is the grey muck which is depressing.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,180

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:


    That’s them told

    Are you not going to post his next proclamation, where he announces that he is transitioning and will be playing for the USWNT in the 2024 Olympics?
    The scope creep with the "Woke" bomb (as used by the crazy Right) is becoming absurd now.

    It's come to mean anything and everything about the modern world that irritates blokes who'd prefer to live in the 1950s version of it.
    Of course, if you oppose anything woke, you just want to return to the 50s. Right.

    Plenty of women also not happy about quite a bit of wokery, especially around the trans issue. Never had Linda Bellos and Germaine Greer as a pair of grizzled blokes looking for a return to the 50s but there you go.
    But you know what I mean. Stuff like this Trump latest (if not fake) or over here, 'GB rowing' no longer dominating the gold medals because they've "gone woke". I mean, c'mon.

    Hey and being radical in the 60s is no protection against being reactionary now. There are loads of examples of this. Isn't the Woodstock guy a high end property developer now? Something like that anyway. I don't buy the generality that people move right with age but certainly some do.
    Both cycling and rowing have lost their coaches with, er, a reputation for borrowing Alex Ferguson's hairdryer.

    It is hard to argue that the method wasn't successful, but is it acceptable?

    I don't imagine the Chinese coaching is particularly sentimental.
    Right. Very valid debate to have. But it's not "Woke" to (eg) trade some ruthlessness for more empathy and compassion. Or a greater focus on mental health, that's not Woke either. Woke is about challenging ingrained assumptions (overt and covert) of racial (white) and gender (male) superiority. Or (same thing different slant) it's about reducing everything in this rich and complex world to race and gender.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,658

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    And 'burner' has also appeared in every single Michael Connelly novel for the past decade.

    Of course everyone knows what they are.

    Who is Michael Connolly?
    A best selling trashy novelist, and I mean proper best selling, creator of Harry Bosch. Ok for passing the time on a sun lounger though the series is a bit exhausted now. I prefer Robert Crais in that particular line.
    Ah yes, Bosch. I used to devour them on holiday. Ages ago now but I think I recall he was standard 'tough guy with a heart' material but with the quirk that he knocked up a good pasta (and quite often did).
    I am now astounded that I used to hang on Patricia Cornwell's every book. The past is indeed a foreign country.
    Yep - read those too. Kay Scarpetta. Solid work. And I'm confident of low-browing you off the court with Robert Walker's "Jessica Coran" potboilers. There's no way you would have spent hours with them, but I did.
    The Sue Grafton books are my favourite trash.
    She started writing them in the 80's, and kept on going for decades, still setting them in the 80s. Quite the nostalgia trip.
    Ah, heard off but never read any. One of the 1st with a female (private) dick apparently per a quick wiki. And she didn't do a "Z is for ..." for some reason. Stopped at Y.
    My son has started reading them, which feels strange.
    Wish mine would read ANY books. It's a dying habit, I fear. And I'm just as bad. I get through maybe 5 a year now cf 20 in the past. And that's with being retired cf working, so it ought to have gone the other way. I should be tearing through the oeuvres and genres!
    I used to read a book a week, easy, now way down. Of course the main explanation is the incubus of the internet sucking out everything, but I wonder if it's also time running out and not enough left to waste on even okayish (as opposed to outright trash) stuff.
    Yes, the digital takeover is definitely a part of it. I read lots of 'stuff' online but it doesn't work for me for books, fiction or non.

    Re time running out, yes, that's a factor too. You don't want to burn it.

    And there's something with me about this which is (I know) rather stupid and negative. Not so much about not picking up new books but more about not trying to learn new skills. Eg piano. Always fancied that and now have the time. But let's say I took it up and it turns out I have some talent for it. Unlikely but possible. That would be great in one sense. But in another it would be very galling because I'd be kicking myself for not doing it when young and able to put in the fabled 10,000 hours and be properly good.

    So you kind of just cruise in neutral to the grave. Can't find suitably precise emoticon for this 'sad but not really' sentiment.
    Weltschmerz covers it for me, though it doesn't yet have an emoticon afaics.
    Which on the new skills thing remind me I need to do my daily German Duolingo. I'm determined to be able to speak conversational German before I shuffle off, but fair to say I have not turned out to have some talent for it.
    I always meant to learn the Gaelic and redo my Ancient Greek properly - but it's feeling a bit all Weltuntergang at the moment.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    .

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    "An overwhelming majority of Canadians want people who are not vaccinated against #COVID19 banned from gatherings in public places, a new poll has found..."

    https://twitter.com/BogochIsaac/status/1423239981817122825

    Analagous to the 17% of Brits who want us locked down now.
    Fake news.

    These Cannucks want internment for plague spreaders.

    #IStandWithCanada
    Have I mentioned today how much I think Australia is f**cked?

    Because boy are they. Everyone is rallying around getting people to stay at home, army deployed, a horrible thing this is doing to their society. Much worse than the few dozen people who are catching Covid every day.
  • Options
    MrEdMrEd Posts: 5,578

    M

    MrEd said:

    Thought Banksy had been a bit quiet recently..




    I did think about this the other day when there was that discussion on Scottish population numbers and thinking there could be a win-win-win situation here for the migrants, Nicola S and the UK Government.

    Basically, you say to the migrants, "look, we will let you stay - and you can also work - on condition you live in Scotland (or Northern Ireland, as well, actually) for a minimum of 15 years and give up your rights to live in rUK."

    Helps the migrants obviously. Helps Nicola because she wants to increase the diversity of Scotland anyway plus its population. And helps the UK Government because shoves the problem out of its heartlands and into the SNP'ss hands.

    Should be fairly easy to enforce as well. You have no right to housing, schools, hospitals etc outside Scotland (or NI) so a fairly easy barrier.
    Ironically, current government policy is the opposite to this. They send Asylum Seekers pretty much anywhere - but the starting point is Croydon, where all initial claims have to be made - and if they decide to move to Glasgow because they know someone there, or there's an established immigrant population, then they lose their right to Home Office support.
    Absolute bonkers. Far more sense to put the other way round.
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 116,983

    HYUFD said:

    Alistair said:

    FF43 said:

    Not usually much into the apocalypse, but this is a bit of a downer. Apparently the Gulf Stream is on the point of collapse, leading to worldwide starvation and the end of civilisation. Kind of nowish.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse

    The UK is proper fucked if the gulf stream goes wonkey.

    Look at our latitude and think about how much snow everywhere else at this latitude gets in winter.
    Yet only a week ago we were told summer temperatures in the UK would reach 40 degrees celcius.
    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/uk-summers-to-hit-40c-21168329

    So maybe we are heading for freezing winters and scorching summers
    I'd buy that, to be honest. Might get more use out of the cross country skis.

    It is the grey muck which is depressing.
    Though the gulf stream keeps us about 5 degrees warmer than we would otherwise be, it is not the only reason we do not have as cold winters as Canada has however.

    'The cause of the temperature difference is likely a complex interaction between the surface ocean, the Gulf Stream, massive upper atmospheric currents and differences in pressure on either side of the Atlantic.'
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/europe-is-warmer-than-canada-because-of-the-gulf-stream-right-not-so-fast-19823546/
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    edited August 2021
    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:



    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    felix said:

    TOPPING said:

    Well off old white Tory blokes completely bewildered at newfangled "marketing" by Labour.

    It will never catch on, says @BannedInParis.

    tha't the second time you have referenced colour to make a dig. Try substituting another colour and see what it looks like.
    Well off old pink Tory blokes completely bewildered at newfangled "marketing" by Labour.

    Looks just fine.
    As a gay Tory I resent that on many more levels - especially as my Mediterranean tan has not a hint of pink about it.
    What about it is it that you resent?
    Simply that you seem to think you're totally tuned in to your Liberal vibe while you're just as full of the same old prejudices and stereotypes as the rest of us and completely unaware of it. I'm old, white, gay and proud - in your world all three seem to justify slurs and sneers. Clueless.
    That was some leap. You're an old, white, Tory. As are so many on PB.

    It was not a huge deductive leap for me to work out that that was what you are. And I was right. Oh and you're gay, thanks for telling me.

    And old, white, (gay or not gay) Tories have shown themselves to be bewildered by Lab's latest marketing strategy or rather, by Jon Trickett's tweet.

    Get over yourself and embrace the truth would be my advice.
    Apparently it was pretty hard for you to understand the other day that I also voted remain. Maybe you could try removing your own blinkered views about race/age/sexuality before handing out unsolicited advice to others.

    Jeez if leaping to conclusions was an Olympic sport you would win gold ("gold" is ok to use, is it?).

    The other day you said you loathed the EU. Which is pretty funny as you live in the EU regardless of how you voted although if I were using my Sherlock Holmes powers again (easy when it comes to you) I would say you voted Remain because you wanted the EU to maintain links to your homeland rather than anything else and if so fair enough.

    And now, because I correctly identify the preponderance of old, white, Tory PB-ers, of which you are one such, I have blinkered views about race/age/sexuality [??].

    You are an old, white, Tory who can't understand a tweet aimed at Lab's supporters who include many people who are old and white but perhaps not so many as Cons' supporters or PB denizens.

    You are looking to be outraged where there is no reason to be outraged.
    And you are pretty thick it seems. Once you use any 'ism' to sneer as you do you give carte 'noir' [sic] for all of it. For the record I understand the tweet - not completely gaga - just think it is pretty lame, like your attempts to gloss over your prejudices. Clearly you don't get it and never will. Such is life.
    Yes but how did the you being gay thing fit into it all?
    If i had a pink € for every time some fool has asked that.
    You'd have 85p?
    Oh way more you're not the only fool I was thinking of....
    Must be very frustrating having so many fools in your life. I would perhaps take a break from PB will cut down the ration dramatically.
    There you go with your 'sadvice' again.
    You old white Tories are incorrigible aren't you.
    Never tired of calling out losers.
    I know. It can be tiresome but thanks for your support I'll keep at it.
    Don't forget to focus on the key issues - like skin colour and age - seems to be your thang!
    I have finished with you so please don't feel bashful about having the last word.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719
    FF43 said:

    Not usually much into the apocalypse, but this is a bit of a downer. Apparently the Gulf Stream is on the point of collapse, leading to worldwide starvation and the end of civilisation. Kind of nowish.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse

    When I read stuff like that it just makes me think it;'s already too late so nothing matters.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,282
    kle4 said:

    FF43 said:

    Not usually much into the apocalypse, but this is a bit of a downer. Apparently the Gulf Stream is on the point of collapse, leading to worldwide starvation and the end of civilisation. Kind of nowish.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse

    When I read stuff like that it just makes me think it;'s already too late so nothing matters.
    It is the Guardian. Trying to find a role for itself in today's post-woke society.
  • Options
    DougSealDougSeal Posts: 11,133
    Piers Corbyn is both the worst Piers and the worst Corbyn. Discuss.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719
    DougSeal said:

    Piers Corbyn is both the worst Piers and the worst Corbyn. Discuss.

    That's its capable of serious consideration is a scary thought.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,617
    edited August 2021
    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    philiph said:

    On topic, Sunak's going to become as unpopular as an ex with the clap if he keeps the triple lock, cuts the UC uplift, and generally puts up payroll taxes.

    When do we find out and can we bet on it/them?
    Well the UC uplift ends next month, so that will be pretty soon either way.

    As for the rest, pass, there's talk of moving to budget to next year now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/16/covid-impact-forces-sunak-to-consider-delaying-budget-until-next-year
    The triple lock does need to go - though aware it appeals to much of the Tories base. Though in the spirit of fairness if I end up paying more tax whilst the oldies are showered with goodies than the resentment will just build.
    Indeed. At some point the younger voters will finally turn out and vote.

    I mean, just get rid of the NI exemption for pensionable age workers for starters.
    That really is an obvious (if painful) place to start. Also fully logical as there is no longer an age at which retirement from the workplace is taken. Gone are the days of 60 female / 65 male. People can opt to continue in employment and so should continue to make the same contributions.
    Rationalising National Insurance does make sense. But I have never understood PB Tories' animosity to the triple lock. The full state pension is less than £10,000 a year which is less than the minimum wage. It is as mysterious as all those backbenchers who used to demand concessions for garden centres.
    It'd make more sense to merge NI and income tax, and abolish the allowances for bank interest and share dividends, and tax income fairly. And leave the triple lock.
    I agree with that exception for the allowance on bank interest and dividends.

    Re bank interest I have no objection to the allowance being removed other than it removes the need for collecting peanuts and the associated cost of collecting peanuts so it might make sense to have an allowance just for that reason.

    Re dividends. Where to start. Gordon Brown completely screwed this up just so he could nobble then pension funds. George Osborne promised to put this right, but he lied and pretended he had. As a consequence the link between dividends and Corporation Tax/ACT is completely broken now. The £5000 helped for small shareholders. Philip Hammond made it worse by reducing it to £2000. For all the buggering around you might as well eliminate it other than the admin factor, but in reality the sensible set up that had worked for decades should be reintroduced. Meddling chancellors!
    I think there may also be a case for changes to Winter Fuel Allowance, which currently costs of the order of 2-3 billion a year and is rather indiscrimate.

    It is better to be spending the money on measures to reduce demand for heating imo.
    Agree. Also the Christmas bonus is now pointless. It was a shock when I got mine for the first time last year, £10!

    Won't save much. I imagine the admin probably approaches the value.
    WFP is very important in the north and west - cutting it would be very unwelcome. And because it is generally flat rate it is easy to deal with.

    Edit: with energy costs going up, it might actually have to be increased.

    Christmas bonus costs nothing to administer other than the bank payment - from what I recall of doing a relative's executry the tenner just pops up in your bank account beside the appropriate four-weekly state pension payment.
    I got a letter notifying me of my Christmas bonus. It doesn't cost much, but as a percentage of £10?

    Re WFA I take your point and I have argued in the past for non means tested benefits sometimes because of the admin so I might not be consistent here, but there must be some better way as suggested by the earlier poster.
  • Options
    IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830
    kle4 said:

    FF43 said:

    Not usually much into the apocalypse, but this is a bit of a downer. Apparently the Gulf Stream is on the point of collapse, leading to worldwide starvation and the end of civilisation. Kind of nowish.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse

    When I read stuff like that it just makes me think it;'s already too late so nothing matters.
    Nah, there's a few generations left yet. Going to get proper tasty, mind: I watched Dredd (the 2012 one) in bed on my tablet last night, and it seems a fairly sober forecast of what's coming.
  • Options
    TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,387
    DougSeal said:

    Piers Corbyn is both the worst Piers and the worst Corbyn. Discuss.

    Given he ranks only just ahead of Ken Livingstone, George Galloway, and Latfur Rahman in my estimation, that is a fairly safe conclusion.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,364
    edited August 2021
    TOPPING said:

    .

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    "An overwhelming majority of Canadians want people who are not vaccinated against #COVID19 banned from gatherings in public places, a new poll has found..."

    https://twitter.com/BogochIsaac/status/1423239981817122825

    Analagous to the 17% of Brits who want us locked down now.
    Fake news.

    These Cannucks want internment for plague spreaders.

    #IStandWithCanada
    Have I mentioned today how much I think Australia is f**cked?

    Because boy are they. Everyone is rallying around getting people to stay at home, army deployed, a horrible thing this is doing to their society. Much worse than the few dozen people who are catching Covid every day.
    Like a stepmom on pornhub.

    Ditto New Zealand.

    Even more shocking when vaccines have been available since the end of last year.

    Zero Covidians are the worst, well ok not as bad as antivaxxers but not far off.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,658
    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    philiph said:

    On topic, Sunak's going to become as unpopular as an ex with the clap if he keeps the triple lock, cuts the UC uplift, and generally puts up payroll taxes.

    When do we find out and can we bet on it/them?
    Well the UC uplift ends next month, so that will be pretty soon either way.

    As for the rest, pass, there's talk of moving to budget to next year now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/16/covid-impact-forces-sunak-to-consider-delaying-budget-until-next-year
    The triple lock does need to go - though aware it appeals to much of the Tories base. Though in the spirit of fairness if I end up paying more tax whilst the oldies are showered with goodies than the resentment will just build.
    Indeed. At some point the younger voters will finally turn out and vote.

    I mean, just get rid of the NI exemption for pensionable age workers for starters.
    That really is an obvious (if painful) place to start. Also fully logical as there is no longer an age at which retirement from the workplace is taken. Gone are the days of 60 female / 65 male. People can opt to continue in employment and so should continue to make the same contributions.
    Rationalising National Insurance does make sense. But I have never understood PB Tories' animosity to the triple lock. The full state pension is less than £10,000 a year which is less than the minimum wage. It is as mysterious as all those backbenchers who used to demand concessions for garden centres.
    It'd make more sense to merge NI and income tax, and abolish the allowances for bank interest and share dividends, and tax income fairly. And leave the triple lock.
    I agree with that exception for the allowance on bank interest and dividends.

    Re bank interest I have no objection to the allowance being removed other than it removes the need for collecting peanuts and the associated cost of collecting peanuts so it might make sense to have an allowance just for that reason.

    Re dividends. Where to start. Gordon Brown completely screwed this up just so he could nobble then pension funds. George Osborne promised to put this right, but he lied and pretended he had. As a consequence the link between dividends and Corporation Tax/ACT is completely broken now. The £5000 helped for small shareholders. Philip Hammond made it worse by reducing it to £2000. For all the buggering around you might as well eliminate it other than the admin factor, but in reality the sensible set up that had worked for decades should be reintroduced. Meddling chancellors!
    I think there may also be a case for changes to Winter Fuel Allowance, which currently costs of the order of 2-3 billion a year and is rather indiscrimate.

    It is better to be spending the money on measures to reduce demand for heating imo.
    Agree. Also the Christmas bonus is now pointless. It was a shock when I got mine for the first time last year, £10!

    Won't save much. I imagine the admin probably approaches the value.
    WFP is very important in the north and west - cutting it would be very unwelcome. And because it is generally flat rate it is easy to deal with.

    Edit: with energy costs going up, it might actually have to be increased.

    Christmas bonus costs nothing to administer other than the bank payment - from what I recall of doing a relative's executry the tenner just pops up in your bank account beside the appropriate four-weekly state pension payment.
    I got a letter notifying me of my Christmas bonus. It doesn't cost much, but as a percentage of £10?

    Re WFA I take your point and I have argued in the past for non means tested benefits sometimes because of the admin so I might not be consistent here, but there must be some better way as suggested by the earlier poster.
    Oh, they send a letter, do they? I suppose they have to, to explain what it is, but for £10? Much better to roll it into the basic pension allowance and pay it evenly over the year.
  • Options
    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    kle4 said:

    DougSeal said:

    Piers Corbyn is both the worst Piers and the worst Corbyn. Discuss.

    That's its capable of serious consideration is a scary thought.
    He couldn’t be Moron.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,180
    TOPPING said:

    For those who can't find the time/inclination/wrench of being away from PB to read as much as they did, I have two suggestions:

    1) Subscribe to Granta - usually fantastic literature in bite-size chunks; and
    2) Buy all the Booker shortlist nominees - usually 80% great books

    If they are around then it's easy to pick one up.

    Will be sorry to see so many of you spend time away from PB but hey it's all for the best.

    Speaking of which - where is Philip T? Nose in a good book, I'd warrant.

    That's a nice thought - so long as it's not "Atlas Shrugged" again.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 91,719
    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    And 'burner' has also appeared in every single Michael Connelly novel for the past decade.

    Of course everyone knows what they are.

    Who is Michael Connolly?
    A best selling trashy novelist, and I mean proper best selling, creator of Harry Bosch. Ok for passing the time on a sun lounger though the series is a bit exhausted now. I prefer Robert Crais in that particular line.
    Ah yes, Bosch. I used to devour them on holiday. Ages ago now but I think I recall he was standard 'tough guy with a heart' material but with the quirk that he knocked up a good pasta (and quite often did).
    I am now astounded that I used to hang on Patricia Cornwell's every book. The past is indeed a foreign country.
    Yep - read those too. Kay Scarpetta. Solid work. And I'm confident of low-browing you off the court with Robert Walker's "Jessica Coran" potboilers. There's no way you would have spent hours with them, but I did.
    The Sue Grafton books are my favourite trash.
    She started writing them in the 80's, and kept on going for decades, still setting them in the 80s. Quite the nostalgia trip.
    Ah, heard off but never read any. One of the 1st with a female (private) dick apparently per a quick wiki. And she didn't do a "Z is for ..." for some reason. Stopped at Y.
    My son has started reading them, which feels strange.
    Wish mine would read ANY books. It's a dying habit, I fear. And I'm just as bad. I get through maybe 5 a year now cf 20 in the past. And that's with being retired cf working, so it ought to have gone the other way. I should be tearing through the oeuvres and genres!
    I get through 3-6 per night (depending on whether I'm doing bed time for the three year old with 'big boy' books or the 1 year old with 'baby' books).

    And also 10-15 proper grown up books (without pictures) per year. We do the Netflix etc series, but every now and again we get into a reading phase, the telly doesn't go on and we snuggle up with books. Probably why we still haven't finished Game of Thrones or Line of Duty. Compromises have to be made.
    Sounds a good balance. Yes unless you're a total powerhouse you cannot stay abreast of all the quality TV drama that there is these days AND read lots of books.
    Try adding video games into the mix! My Steam list is full of unplayed ones bought in sales.
  • Options
    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    edited August 2021

    kinabalu said:

    MrEd said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    DougSeal said:


    That’s them told

    Are you not going to post his next proclamation, where he announces that he is transitioning and will be playing for the USWNT in the 2024 Olympics?
    The scope creep with the "Woke" bomb (as used by the crazy Right) is becoming absurd now.

    It's come to mean anything and everything about the modern world that irritates blokes who'd prefer to live in the 1950s version of it.
    Of course, if you oppose anything woke, you just want to return to the 50s. Right.

    Plenty of women also not happy about quite a bit of wokery, especially around the trans issue. Never had Linda Bellos and Germaine Greer as a pair of grizzled blokes looking for a return to the 50s but there you go.
    But you know what I mean. Stuff like this Trump latest (if not fake) or over here, 'GB rowing' no longer dominating the gold medals because they've "gone woke". I mean, c'mon.

    Hey and being radical in the 60s is no protection against being reactionary now. There are loads of examples of this. Isn't the Woodstock guy a high end property developer now? Something like that anyway. I don't buy the generality that people move right with age but certainly some do.
    Both cycling and rowing have lost their coaches with, er, a reputation for borrowing Alex Ferguson's hairdryer.

    It is hard to argue that the method wasn't successful, but is it acceptable?

    I don't imagine the Chinese coaching is particularly sentimental.
    The cycling and rowing situations are somewhat different anyway. Things appear to have gone a bit pear-shaped with the rowing squad. The track cycling performance, on the other hand, has been really pretty good so far: one gold already, and all of the defeats have been down either to very strong efforts by other nations - both squads of silver medal winners were taken down by world or Olympic record performances - or, in the case of Katy Marchant, to being struck by an opponent, which is the kind of bad luck about which nothing can be done. In general terms, however, it's quite simply the case that the rest of the world appears finally to have caught up with Britain.

    Moreover, if you take cycling as a whole, the performance in the chunky tyre disciplines has been so very good that it's at least theoretically possible that the 12 medal total from the previous two Games could be exceeded. Team GB has already accumulated eight, and there are five track events still to be completed.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,500
    kle4 said:

    FF43 said:

    Not usually much into the apocalypse, but this is a bit of a downer. Apparently the Gulf Stream is on the point of collapse, leading to worldwide starvation and the end of civilisation. Kind of nowish.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse

    When I read stuff like that it just makes me think it's already too late so nothing matters.
    No, it might not happen for a century or more - and mitigating atmospheric CO2 might prevent it.
    We just don't know enough to know - only that there is a significant risk.

    Getting global society in a position where it can determine atmospheric CO2 levels in both directions rather than ever upwards, and having technologies which might mitigate the negative effects of climate change are definitely worthwhile activities.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,658
    TOPPING said:

    kle4 said:

    FF43 said:

    Not usually much into the apocalypse, but this is a bit of a downer. Apparently the Gulf Stream is on the point of collapse, leading to worldwide starvation and the end of civilisation. Kind of nowish.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse

    When I read stuff like that it just makes me think it;'s already too late so nothing matters.
    It is the Guardian. Trying to find a role for itself in today's post-woke society.
    Like the Express weather forecasts ...

    Proper depressing conversation anyway.

    Just cheering myself up by sorting out some of the books for a local charity shop. Interesting how the quality of reproduction of images has gone up so much since the 1970s; I wouldn't look twice today at many of the tank and naval books I was so pleased to have then! Which at least resolves the rereading issue.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,617
    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    philiph said:

    On topic, Sunak's going to become as unpopular as an ex with the clap if he keeps the triple lock, cuts the UC uplift, and generally puts up payroll taxes.

    When do we find out and can we bet on it/them?
    Well the UC uplift ends next month, so that will be pretty soon either way.

    As for the rest, pass, there's talk of moving to budget to next year now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/16/covid-impact-forces-sunak-to-consider-delaying-budget-until-next-year
    The triple lock does need to go - though aware it appeals to much of the Tories base. Though in the spirit of fairness if I end up paying more tax whilst the oldies are showered with goodies than the resentment will just build.
    Indeed. At some point the younger voters will finally turn out and vote.

    I mean, just get rid of the NI exemption for pensionable age workers for starters.
    That really is an obvious (if painful) place to start. Also fully logical as there is no longer an age at which retirement from the workplace is taken. Gone are the days of 60 female / 65 male. People can opt to continue in employment and so should continue to make the same contributions.
    Rationalising National Insurance does make sense. But I have never understood PB Tories' animosity to the triple lock. The full state pension is less than £10,000 a year which is less than the minimum wage. It is as mysterious as all those backbenchers who used to demand concessions for garden centres.
    It'd make more sense to merge NI and income tax, and abolish the allowances for bank interest and share dividends, and tax income fairly. And leave the triple lock.
    I agree with that exception for the allowance on bank interest and dividends.

    Re bank interest I have no objection to the allowance being removed other than it removes the need for collecting peanuts and the associated cost of collecting peanuts so it might make sense to have an allowance just for that reason.

    Re dividends. Where to start. Gordon Brown completely screwed this up just so he could nobble then pension funds. George Osborne promised to put this right, but he lied and pretended he had. As a consequence the link between dividends and Corporation Tax/ACT is completely broken now. The £5000 helped for small shareholders. Philip Hammond made it worse by reducing it to £2000. For all the buggering around you might as well eliminate it other than the admin factor, but in reality the sensible set up that had worked for decades should be reintroduced. Meddling chancellors!
    I think there may also be a case for changes to Winter Fuel Allowance, which currently costs of the order of 2-3 billion a year and is rather indiscrimate.

    It is better to be spending the money on measures to reduce demand for heating imo.
    Agree. Also the Christmas bonus is now pointless. It was a shock when I got mine for the first time last year, £10!

    Won't save much. I imagine the admin probably approaches the value.
    WFP is very important in the north and west - cutting it would be very unwelcome. And because it is generally flat rate it is easy to deal with.

    Edit: with energy costs going up, it might actually have to be increased.

    Christmas bonus costs nothing to administer other than the bank payment - from what I recall of doing a relative's executry the tenner just pops up in your bank account beside the appropriate four-weekly state pension payment.
    I got a letter notifying me of my Christmas bonus. It doesn't cost much, but as a percentage of £10?

    Re WFA I take your point and I have argued in the past for non means tested benefits sometimes because of the admin so I might not be consistent here, but there must be some better way as suggested by the earlier poster.
    Oh, they send a letter, do they? I suppose they have to, to explain what it is, but for £10? Much better to roll it into the basic pension allowance and pay it evenly over the year.
    Yep it would.

    When I got the letter I had mixed thoughts. Firstly yeah I had forgotten I get that and then what a waste of money.
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    Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 4,806
    One imagines the Gulf Strem collapse would leave the UK with a similar continental climate comparable with Petropavlosk with the North Sea doubling as the Sea of Okhotsk:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky?wprov=sfla1
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    DougSeal said:

    Piers Corbyn is both the worst Piers and the worst Corbyn. Discuss.

    Right, Piers Morgan isn't an antivaxxer, so you're probably right.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,658
    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    philiph said:

    On topic, Sunak's going to become as unpopular as an ex with the clap if he keeps the triple lock, cuts the UC uplift, and generally puts up payroll taxes.

    When do we find out and can we bet on it/them?
    Well the UC uplift ends next month, so that will be pretty soon either way.

    As for the rest, pass, there's talk of moving to budget to next year now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/16/covid-impact-forces-sunak-to-consider-delaying-budget-until-next-year
    The triple lock does need to go - though aware it appeals to much of the Tories base. Though in the spirit of fairness if I end up paying more tax whilst the oldies are showered with goodies than the resentment will just build.
    Indeed. At some point the younger voters will finally turn out and vote.

    I mean, just get rid of the NI exemption for pensionable age workers for starters.
    That really is an obvious (if painful) place to start. Also fully logical as there is no longer an age at which retirement from the workplace is taken. Gone are the days of 60 female / 65 male. People can opt to continue in employment and so should continue to make the same contributions.
    Rationalising National Insurance does make sense. But I have never understood PB Tories' animosity to the triple lock. The full state pension is less than £10,000 a year which is less than the minimum wage. It is as mysterious as all those backbenchers who used to demand concessions for garden centres.
    It'd make more sense to merge NI and income tax, and abolish the allowances for bank interest and share dividends, and tax income fairly. And leave the triple lock.
    I agree with that exception for the allowance on bank interest and dividends.

    Re bank interest I have no objection to the allowance being removed other than it removes the need for collecting peanuts and the associated cost of collecting peanuts so it might make sense to have an allowance just for that reason.

    Re dividends. Where to start. Gordon Brown completely screwed this up just so he could nobble then pension funds. George Osborne promised to put this right, but he lied and pretended he had. As a consequence the link between dividends and Corporation Tax/ACT is completely broken now. The £5000 helped for small shareholders. Philip Hammond made it worse by reducing it to £2000. For all the buggering around you might as well eliminate it other than the admin factor, but in reality the sensible set up that had worked for decades should be reintroduced. Meddling chancellors!
    I think there may also be a case for changes to Winter Fuel Allowance, which currently costs of the order of 2-3 billion a year and is rather indiscrimate.

    It is better to be spending the money on measures to reduce demand for heating imo.
    Agree. Also the Christmas bonus is now pointless. It was a shock when I got mine for the first time last year, £10!

    Won't save much. I imagine the admin probably approaches the value.
    WFP is very important in the north and west - cutting it would be very unwelcome. And because it is generally flat rate it is easy to deal with.

    Edit: with energy costs going up, it might actually have to be increased.

    Christmas bonus costs nothing to administer other than the bank payment - from what I recall of doing a relative's executry the tenner just pops up in your bank account beside the appropriate four-weekly state pension payment.
    I got a letter notifying me of my Christmas bonus. It doesn't cost much, but as a percentage of £10?

    Re WFA I take your point and I have argued in the past for non means tested benefits sometimes because of the admin so I might not be consistent here, but there must be some better way as suggested by the earlier poster.
    Oh, they send a letter, do they? I suppose they have to, to explain what it is, but for £10? Much better to roll it into the basic pension allowance and pay it evenly over the year.
    Yep it would.

    When I got the letter I had mixed thoughts. Firstly yeah I had forgotten I get that and then what a waste of money.
    Of course going through the executry bumf reminded me that in the old days the Civil Service could send such things OHMS - post free. I wonder how much it cost the UK to privatise the post office in that respect?
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    So about that (monopoly) money Piers Corbyn accepted to stop being an antivaxxer.

    He's just a charlatan whose behaviour that is responsible for the death of the gullible.

    Lock him up.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,326
    UK cases by specimen date

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,326
    England PCR positivity

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,326
    UK Local R

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    Best Piers.

    Brighton and Blackpool.

    Or maybe Piers Gaveston.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,326
    Case summary

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,326
    Hospitals

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,326
    Deaths

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    ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,181
    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    kjh said:

    MattW said:

    kjh said:

    Carnyx said:

    philiph said:

    On topic, Sunak's going to become as unpopular as an ex with the clap if he keeps the triple lock, cuts the UC uplift, and generally puts up payroll taxes.

    When do we find out and can we bet on it/them?
    Well the UC uplift ends next month, so that will be pretty soon either way.

    As for the rest, pass, there's talk of moving to budget to next year now.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/jul/16/covid-impact-forces-sunak-to-consider-delaying-budget-until-next-year
    The triple lock does need to go - though aware it appeals to much of the Tories base. Though in the spirit of fairness if I end up paying more tax whilst the oldies are showered with goodies than the resentment will just build.
    Indeed. At some point the younger voters will finally turn out and vote.

    I mean, just get rid of the NI exemption for pensionable age workers for starters.
    That really is an obvious (if painful) place to start. Also fully logical as there is no longer an age at which retirement from the workplace is taken. Gone are the days of 60 female / 65 male. People can opt to continue in employment and so should continue to make the same contributions.
    Rationalising National Insurance does make sense. But I have never understood PB Tories' animosity to the triple lock. The full state pension is less than £10,000 a year which is less than the minimum wage. It is as mysterious as all those backbenchers who used to demand concessions for garden centres.
    It'd make more sense to merge NI and income tax, and abolish the allowances for bank interest and share dividends, and tax income fairly. And leave the triple lock.
    I agree with that exception for the allowance on bank interest and dividends.

    Re bank interest I have no objection to the allowance being removed other than it removes the need for collecting peanuts and the associated cost of collecting peanuts so it might make sense to have an allowance just for that reason.

    Re dividends. Where to start. Gordon Brown completely screwed this up just so he could nobble then pension funds. George Osborne promised to put this right, but he lied and pretended he had. As a consequence the link between dividends and Corporation Tax/ACT is completely broken now. The £5000 helped for small shareholders. Philip Hammond made it worse by reducing it to £2000. For all the buggering around you might as well eliminate it other than the admin factor, but in reality the sensible set up that had worked for decades should be reintroduced. Meddling chancellors!
    I think there may also be a case for changes to Winter Fuel Allowance, which currently costs of the order of 2-3 billion a year and is rather indiscrimate.

    It is better to be spending the money on measures to reduce demand for heating imo.
    Agree. Also the Christmas bonus is now pointless. It was a shock when I got mine for the first time last year, £10!

    Won't save much. I imagine the admin probably approaches the value.
    WFP is very important in the north and west - cutting it would be very unwelcome. And because it is generally flat rate it is easy to deal with.

    Edit: with energy costs going up, it might actually have to be increased.

    Christmas bonus costs nothing to administer other than the bank payment - from what I recall of doing a relative's executry the tenner just pops up in your bank account beside the appropriate four-weekly state pension payment.
    I got a letter notifying me of my Christmas bonus. It doesn't cost much, but as a percentage of £10?

    Re WFA I take your point and I have argued in the past for non means tested benefits sometimes because of the admin so I might not be consistent here, but there must be some better way as suggested by the earlier poster.
    Oh, they send a letter, do they? I suppose they have to, to explain what it is, but for £10? Much better to roll it into the basic pension allowance and pay it evenly over the year.
    Yep it would.

    When I got the letter I had mixed thoughts. Firstly yeah I had forgotten I get that and then what a waste of money.
    Isn’t it because the initial amount is fixed at £10 by an Act of Parliament of 1972, and nobody has bothered to amend it?

    £10 in 1972 being the equivalent of around £250 today, it seems a bit daft, but very typical of Edward Heath’s technocratic approach to everything.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,326
    UK R

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    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    edited August 2021

    TOPPING said:

    .

    TOPPING said:

    Nigelb said:

    "An overwhelming majority of Canadians want people who are not vaccinated against #COVID19 banned from gatherings in public places, a new poll has found..."

    https://twitter.com/BogochIsaac/status/1423239981817122825

    Analagous to the 17% of Brits who want us locked down now.
    Fake news.

    These Cannucks want internment for plague spreaders.

    #IStandWithCanada
    Have I mentioned today how much I think Australia is f**cked?

    Because boy are they. Everyone is rallying around getting people to stay at home, army deployed, a horrible thing this is doing to their society. Much worse than the few dozen people who are catching Covid every day.
    Like a stepmom on pornhub.

    Ditto New Zealand.

    Even more shocking when vaccines have been available since the end of last year.

    Zero Covidians are the worst, well ok not as bad as antivaxxers but not far off.
    At least New Zealand has managed to keep Delta out - so far, anyway. But even if they can keep that going until they've managed to jab everyone, they may find it rather hard to contemplate opening back up again.

    Given that the vaccines aren't 100% effective at preventing serious illness, they are bound to suffer an exit wave and quite a lot of deaths as soon as they open back up.

    In a straight choice between keeping their defences up forever or entering all their grannies into a death lottery, is it at all certain that they won't choose the former?
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,326
    Age related data

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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,326
    Age related data scaled to 100K

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    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132

    Best Piers.

    Brighton and Blackpool.

    Or maybe Piers Gaveston.

    Piers Fletcher-Dervish?
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,180

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    And 'burner' has also appeared in every single Michael Connelly novel for the past decade.

    Of course everyone knows what they are.

    Who is Michael Connolly?
    A best selling trashy novelist, and I mean proper best selling, creator of Harry Bosch. Ok for passing the time on a sun lounger though the series is a bit exhausted now. I prefer Robert Crais in that particular line.
    Ah yes, Bosch. I used to devour them on holiday. Ages ago now but I think I recall he was standard 'tough guy with a heart' material but with the quirk that he knocked up a good pasta (and quite often did).
    I am now astounded that I used to hang on Patricia Cornwell's every book. The past is indeed a foreign country.
    Yep - read those too. Kay Scarpetta. Solid work. And I'm confident of low-browing you off the court with Robert Walker's "Jessica Coran" potboilers. There's no way you would have spent hours with them, but I did.
    The Sue Grafton books are my favourite trash.
    She started writing them in the 80's, and kept on going for decades, still setting them in the 80s. Quite the nostalgia trip.
    Ah, heard off but never read any. One of the 1st with a female (private) dick apparently per a quick wiki. And she didn't do a "Z is for ..." for some reason. Stopped at Y.
    My son has started reading them, which feels strange.
    Wish mine would read ANY books. It's a dying habit, I fear. And I'm just as bad. I get through maybe 5 a year now cf 20 in the past. And that's with being retired cf working, so it ought to have gone the other way. I should be tearing through the oeuvres and genres!
    I used to read a book a week, easy, now way down. Of course the main explanation is the incubus of the internet sucking out everything, but I wonder if it's also time running out and not enough left to waste on even okayish (as opposed to outright trash) stuff.
    Yes, the digital takeover is definitely a part of it. I read lots of 'stuff' online but it doesn't work for me for books, fiction or non.

    Re time running out, yes, that's a factor too. You don't want to burn it.

    And there's something with me about this which is (I know) rather stupid and negative. Not so much about not picking up new books but more about not trying to learn new skills. Eg piano. Always fancied that and now have the time. But let's say I took it up and it turns out I have some talent for it. Unlikely but possible. That would be great in one sense. But in another it would be very galling because I'd be kicking myself for not doing it when young and able to put in the fabled 10,000 hours and be properly good.

    So you kind of just cruise in neutral to the grave. Can't find suitably precise emoticon for this 'sad but not really' sentiment.
    Weltschmerz covers it for me, though it doesn't yet have an emoticon afaics.
    Which on the new skills thing remind me I need to do my daily German Duolingo. I'm determined to be able to speak conversational German before I shuffle off, but fair to say I have not turned out to have some talent for it.
    My money's on you. Das ist ein Hund! - and away we go.

    I lived in Vienna and had 'total immersion' tuition in German twice a week for a while. I was getting somewhere (I think) but came back to London before the dam broke and I could truly converse in it. If my Vienna job had not been English speaking (the money markets) I reckon I might have got closer.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,326
    Case rate changes

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    TOPPING said:

    For those who can't find the time/inclination/wrench of being away from PB to read as much as they did, I have two suggestions:

    1) Subscribe to Granta - usually fantastic literature in bite-size chunks; and
    2) Buy all the Booker shortlist nominees - usually 80% great books

    If they are around then it's easy to pick one up.

    Will be sorry to see so many of you spend time away from PB but hey it's all for the best.

    Speaking of which - where is Philip T? Nose in a good book, I'd warrant.

    Funnily, those are the lat two things I would recommend!
    I was given a year's subscription to Granta a while back, and I found it packed full of self-serving smugness. It was hard to tell one author from the next, it was as if they were pressed from a mould.
    And buying the Booker shortlist is - speaking as someone who ran a bookshop, and read lots of them - a sure route to madness. I'd put the ratio of good to bad on the Booker list as about 1:10. The ratio might have got better recently, but solely because of Hilary Mantel and her Wolf Hall wins.

    If you want to find a decent book, go to your nearest bookshop (preferably independent, but Waterstones will do) and ask for a recommendation. If they're any good they'll have a chat about what you've liked before and they'll point you at something that should suit. And if you don't want to talk to anyone, read the little recommendation cards the booksellers put on the shelves.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,500
    Pro_Rata said:

    One imagines the Gulf Strem collapse would leave the UK with a similar continental climate comparable with Petropavlosk with the North Sea doubling as the Sea of Okhotsk:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky?wprov=sfla1

    Apparently not.

    https://arstechnica.com/science/2020/01/modeling-what-would-happen-to-the-uk-if-the-gulf-stream-shuts-down/
    ...Things are quite a bit different if the AMOC shuts down. Rather than rising, temperatures would actually drop by an average of 3.4°C. That drop would occur on a gradient, with northern Scotland cooling the most and southern England seeing the least impact and therefore seeing conditions similar to what it currently experiences. But, more dramatically, rainfall during the growing season is expected to drop by 123mm. That drop is enough to reduce the UK's percentage of arable land from 32 percent to just seven percent. Obviously, this would cause a big hit to the UK's agricultural productivity. Irrigation could again offset this, but the scale of the changes needed would be far larger; the authors estimate adding this irrigation at ten times the value of the crops that would be produced. But they note that it's not clear if the UK would have enough water to spare to fully reverse the loss of rain....

    Though given the huge uncertainties in modelling climate/weather, who knows ?
    Malcom's turnip season would be significantly truncated, I expect.
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    pigeon said:

    Best Piers.

    Brighton and Blackpool.

    Or maybe Piers Gaveston.

    Piers Fletcher-Dervish?
    We're talking about real Piers, not fictional ones.
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    pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,132
    Pro_Rata said:

    One imagines the Gulf Strem collapse would leave the UK with a similar continental climate comparable with Petropavlosk with the North Sea doubling as the Sea of Okhotsk:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky?wprov=sfla1

    Not necessarily, especially in a scenario where the climate more generally is continuing to warm.

    Our main problem mightn't be excessive cold, it could be a reduction in rainfall. But the change is likely to be sufficiently gradual that, even if it does eventually happen, nobody alive today will experience it.
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    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,157
    FF43 said:

    Not usually much into the apocalypse, but this is a bit of a downer. Apparently the Gulf Stream is on the point of collapse, leading to worldwide starvation and the end of civilisation. Kind of nowish.

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/aug/05/climate-crisis-scientists-spot-warning-signs-of-gulf-stream-collapse

    Ah - this story again! Been round a few times I think.
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,180
    Carnyx said:

    kinabalu said:

    Selebian said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    Nigelb said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Heathener said:

    And 'burner' has also appeared in every single Michael Connelly novel for the past decade.

    Of course everyone knows what they are.

    Who is Michael Connolly?
    A best selling trashy novelist, and I mean proper best selling, creator of Harry Bosch. Ok for passing the time on a sun lounger though the series is a bit exhausted now. I prefer Robert Crais in that particular line.
    Ah yes, Bosch. I used to devour them on holiday. Ages ago now but I think I recall he was standard 'tough guy with a heart' material but with the quirk that he knocked up a good pasta (and quite often did).
    I am now astounded that I used to hang on Patricia Cornwell's every book. The past is indeed a foreign country.
    Yep - read those too. Kay Scarpetta. Solid work. And I'm confident of low-browing you off the court with Robert Walker's "Jessica Coran" potboilers. There's no way you would have spent hours with them, but I did.
    The Sue Grafton books are my favourite trash.
    She started writing them in the 80's, and kept on going for decades, still setting them in the 80s. Quite the nostalgia trip.
    Ah, heard off but never read any. One of the 1st with a female (private) dick apparently per a quick wiki. And she didn't do a "Z is for ..." for some reason. Stopped at Y.
    My son has started reading them, which feels strange.
    Wish mine would read ANY books. It's a dying habit, I fear. And I'm just as bad. I get through maybe 5 a year now cf 20 in the past. And that's with being retired cf working, so it ought to have gone the other way. I should be tearing through the oeuvres and genres!
    I get through 3-6 per night (depending on whether I'm doing bed time for the three year old with 'big boy' books or the 1 year old with 'baby' books).

    And also 10-15 proper grown up books (without pictures) per year. We do the Netflix etc series, but every now and again we get into a reading phase, the telly doesn't go on and we snuggle up with books. Probably why we still haven't finished Game of Thrones or Line of Duty. Compromises have to be made.
    Sounds a good balance. Yes unless you're a total powerhouse you cannot stay abreast of all the quality TV drama that there is these days AND read lots of books.
    Quite. I stopped bothering with TV at all years ago though I do have some decent DVDs, some still to watch.
    Good call for you, I'm sure. One plus for TV drama over books, though, is it can be a shared experience with others in the household, eg wife in my case. It's a thing we do together, watch and process a drama series soup to nuts, talk about it, speculate on plot, opine on characters etc. If we instead had our respective noses in our own respective books, that wouldn't be quite the same.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,500
    .
    pigeon said:

    Best Piers.

    Brighton and Blackpool.

    Or maybe Piers Gaveston.

    Piers Fletcher-Dervish?
    Piers Courage.
This discussion has been closed.