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What happened in Batley and Spen at the May 2019 Euro elections – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    Age related data

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  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870

    Pagan2 said:

    Omnium said:

    Another straw in the wind to make of what you will: Labour has now spoken to EVERY Batley and Spen voter for whom we have phone numbers. I resumed phoning this evening and after a few (including 2 don't-know to Labour switchers, yay) I got the message that everyone had now been called.

    This has to be a lot more than the Galloway effort. I think it's now really come down to a Tory-Labour battle and Galloway is marginalised.

    "Labour has now spoken to EVERY Batley and Spen voter for whom we have phone numbers."

    Dr P - this seems improbable unless you have a fantastically short list of phone numbers.
    Not only improbable but impossible. Personally I dont answer a call from an unknown number and I doubt I am the only one
    I always answer; sometimes with an imprecation!
    Whatever for if its a legitimate call they will leave a message. In my experience 90% of unknown numbers don't
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    Vaccinations

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    UK R

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    New -

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  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    FPT

    Carnyx said:

    rcs1000 said:

    There is this strange idea that asking the young to make sacrifices for the old in time of crisis is somehow unusual.

    Ladies and gentlemen, can I bring to your attention conscription? That is, forcing the young to take time out from education and life, to get trained as a soldier and to go into battle for theit country, so an external menace can be defeated.

    It seems to me that CV19 is not a million miles different to a war. A pathogen has come to disrupt our lived and potentially to kill and to injure, and to affect our way of life.

    A small number of people (might) bear a slightly higher risk from vaccination than they would do from the disease. But in return everyone benefits from stamping out the disease completely.

    We all agree conscription is necessary under certain circumstances, why should it not be the same with vaccination?

    The comparison is even closer. Being a guinea pig was a recognised role for conscientious objectors to conscription, of course. And I don't mean the Mengele kind of guinea pig.

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16510534/
    Crikey! Scientists back then had all the fun :hushed: That's both apalling and very interesting in the things that were learned. Fascinating that the author was involved as a scientist and that one (at least) of the 'volunteers' went into science afterwards. I also like the desert-dry reference to the Declaration of Helsinki preventing similar studies in future - I can't work out whether the author sees that as a bad or a good thing.

    These seem direct links to the full paper:
    https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/35/3/556/735661
    DOI: https://doi.org/10.1093/ije/dyl020

    I was fortunate enough to have a brilliant surgeon for my youthful health problems. He was at the end of a long and successful career, but I was surprised to discover that, in the 1950s, he had done experiments on volunteer servicemen. The tests were to examine heat effects and would, to modern eyes, not be allowed. He was fairly frank about it.
    Not to mention the experiment on human subjects with chemical weapons, at Porton Down, which went on into the '70s, I think.
    That was actually directly to do with defence, so it's quite a good comparison for covid!

    There was a rather distressing book published on the experiments. I can't remember the details now, but IIRC the question of informed consent was rather skated over - perhaps an element of being volunteered too. It wasn't formally wartime, either, so they were doing it on professional squaddies.
    An interesting - essentially an alternate form of 'acceptable' National Service.

    Reading one piece in the BMJ where they talked to people who had taken part in one, all 3 said they would do it again.
    https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/35/3/556/735661

    It seemed to me that it would be worthwhile to try and find out how any of the surviving volunteers, who would now be over 80, felt today about the experiments.

    One of these, Norman Proctor, now aged 92, helped me to trace survivors among the 23 volunteers known to him.

    Of these, 17 were known to have died, three were untraced, and three replied to my short questionnaire. Those who replied all thought that the experiments had been very worthwhile and stated that they would have volunteered again if required. From the beginning, in 1940, the volunteers had made it clear that they were not willing to take part in any experiments in which the main object was to assist in providing answers to purely military questions. They required that the research should be such that the answers should be of benefit to the general population.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    OT some high-end estate agents must be required viewing for burglars as they point out ludicrously expensive but portable items in probably empty homes for sale.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Omnium said:

    Another straw in the wind to make of what you will: Labour has now spoken to EVERY Batley and Spen voter for whom we have phone numbers. I resumed phoning this evening and after a few (including 2 don't-know to Labour switchers, yay) I got the message that everyone had now been called.

    This has to be a lot more than the Galloway effort. I think it's now really come down to a Tory-Labour battle and Galloway is marginalised.

    "Labour has now spoken to EVERY Batley and Spen voter for whom we have phone numbers."

    Dr P - this seems improbable unless you have a fantastically short list of phone numbers.
    Not only improbable but impossible. Personally I dont answer a call from an unknown number and I doubt I am the only one
    I always answer; sometimes with an imprecation!
    Whatever for if its a legitimate call they will leave a message. In my experience 90% of unknown numbers don't
    The hospital system always shows as caller ID withheld, for confidentiality reasons but around 75% or more pick up when we phone patients.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,870
    Foxy said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Omnium said:

    Another straw in the wind to make of what you will: Labour has now spoken to EVERY Batley and Spen voter for whom we have phone numbers. I resumed phoning this evening and after a few (including 2 don't-know to Labour switchers, yay) I got the message that everyone had now been called.

    This has to be a lot more than the Galloway effort. I think it's now really come down to a Tory-Labour battle and Galloway is marginalised.

    "Labour has now spoken to EVERY Batley and Spen voter for whom we have phone numbers."

    Dr P - this seems improbable unless you have a fantastically short list of phone numbers.
    Not only improbable but impossible. Personally I dont answer a call from an unknown number and I doubt I am the only one
    I always answer; sometimes with an imprecation!
    Whatever for if its a legitimate call they will leave a message. In my experience 90% of unknown numbers don't
    The hospital system always shows as caller ID withheld, for confidentiality reasons but around 75% or more pick up when we phone patients.
    Yes but Nick was claiming 100% call answering and I am sure as i stated if its not answered you leave a message
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    eek said:

    Omnium said:

    dixiedean said:



    Spanish flu was a State secret in most countries when it began.
    I doubt we want to go that far.
    The focus on cases was understandable at first when we had no idea of the CFR, the %age of asymptomatic cases, how it was transmitted, how best to treat it, and, quite frankly, when we didn't know that a lot of us might not survive at all.
    There has been very little attempt by the media, government or health authorities to move away from this crude measure, or to educate the wider public.

    There was a bit of a war going on.
    Which is why we know it as Spanish flu as Spain was a neutral country used to allow the story to be reported at all.

    Sometimes its an education talking to those on PB. Revision of the obvious seems unnecessary though.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,286

    Batley and Spen could be the ideal place to set up a driving school based on what's going on behind the GB News roving reporter. Have Kelloggs been giving out driving licences free in boxes of Cornflakes?

    There must be something better to do than watch GB News on a night without soccerball.

    "I secretly harbour racist views, I don't think Asians drive well"
    ."

    https://youtu.be/8zmRTSIEVt8
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    edited June 2021
    eek said:

    Fujifilm Diosynth Biotechnologies is investing $850m in vaccines plants across the USA and Billingham - it looks like $450m of it will be in Billingham.

    https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19410406.hundreds-jobs-billinghams-fujifilm-vaccines-facility/

    Oh, another $450m of private money finding its way to Northern England.

    It’s almost as if the government are courting investment in vaccine production, just as a large bloc of nations nearby spent three months threatening a manufacturer of vaccines, in the middle of a pandemic.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    This is quite a good piece on the recent rise of Delta in Spain, and on where they are with vaccinations:

    https://english.elpais.com/society/2021-06-29/spain-rushes-to-vaccinate-younger-age-groups-as-coronavirus-cases-rise.html
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    The inflation is definitely coming, so much pent-up demand in the economy, and a similar pattern all around the world. The first countries back to something approaching normal, are going to go gangbusters.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    Over 70s and front line health workers to get third vaccine in the autumn
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    edited June 2021
    Back of the fag packet indicates about 100,000 reported cases on the 21st July two days after freedom day.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773

    UK R

    image

    I'm sure this graph yesterday showed R on its way down?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Pulpstar said:

    Back of the fag packet indicates about 100,000 reported cases on the 21st July two days after freedom day.

    Freedom Day will be a lot of folk off work day by the sounds of it.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871
    Sandpit said:


    The inflation is definitely coming, so much pent-up demand in the economy, and a similar pattern all around the world. The first countries back to something approaching normal, are going to go gangbusters.

    Naturally, there's pent up demand but there's only so many holidays, restaurant tables and the like on offer so demand outstrips supply and you can guess the rest.

    It explains the house price surge which is enhanced by the desire to "flee" London and SE commuter land and enjoy a new hybrid working existence with a home office overlooking a Scottish loch or in one of the Conservative heartlands of the north and midlands.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20
    “I don’t think anyone… “
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    edited June 2021
    stodge said:

    dixiedean said:

    39.8 °C in Victoria BC. 42.7 in Port Alberni. And 49 + in BC Interior.
    These are extraordinary temperatures for a place with a normally middle England climate.

    It's a real warning and should be seen as such.

    130 people, mostly elderly, have died in Vancouver during this heatwave. British Columbia isn't like California and is unprepared for heat of this scale.

    As are we.

    5-10 consecutive days of temperatures above 40c in London are, in my view, likely in the next 10-20 years - how prepared are we in terms of demands on the power grid and the likelihood of dozens if not scores of deaths among elderly people who cannot deal with the heat and associated humidity?

    70,000 are estimated to have perished in the 2003 European heatwave - 14,000 died in France which has slightly more experience of heat than the UK.
    The Met Office have recently announced a new category of severe weather - Extreme Heat - for the national severe weather warning system.

    It's likely that we'd have several days' notice of a dangerous heatwave. What I'm not sure of is what could be done in response. I guess rescheduling things to make sure you don't have to be outside during the middle of the day is one thing.

    In terms of longer term preparation there's a lot that needs to be done to make the rail network more resilient. Its performance in summer 2019 in response to the heat then was abysmal.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    Top rated comment made me laugh:

    They can control inflation with mass unemployment or interest rate rises. End furlough and put them all on the dole. They had nearly 2 years of Netflix and now it is time to pay the price.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    edited June 2021
    tlg86 said:

    Top rated comment made me laugh:

    They can control inflation with mass unemployment or interest rate rises. End furlough and put them all on the dole. They had nearly 2 years of Netflix and now it is time to pay the price.
    What sort of bastard thinks 2 years* of hard Netflix isn’t punishment enough?

    *Actually, around 15 months.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214
    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:


    The inflation is definitely coming, so much pent-up demand in the economy, and a similar pattern all around the world. The first countries back to something approaching normal, are going to go gangbusters.

    Naturally, there's pent up demand but there's only so many holidays, restaurant tables and the like on offer so demand outstrips supply and you can guess the rest.

    It explains the house price surge which is enhanced by the desire to "flee" London and SE commuter land and enjoy a new hybrid working existence with a home office overlooking a Scottish loch or in one of the Conservative heartlands of the north and midlands.
    Inflation has always been too much money chasing too many goods (and people).

    Good thing we haven't created shedloads of money at the same time as mucking around with our supplies of goods and people, eh?

    Bugger.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,128
    edited June 2021
    This is quite funny from Guido.

    The Gallywhacker is on his fifth (slightly exaggerated - looks more like 4) threat of legal action of the campaign, including one who has apologised, a 17 year old schoolgirl, and now the Local Council - who have removed some of his election posters for putting the Imprint in too small type.

    https://order-order.com/2021/06/30/galloway-threatens-his-fifth-legal-action-of-by-election-campaign/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,174
    edited June 2021
    dixiedean said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Back of the fag packet indicates about 100,000 reported cases on the 21st July two days after freedom day.

    Freedom Day will be a lot of folk off work day by the sounds of it.
    I reckon we'll top out about 150,000 daily cases start of August then head downhill.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,213
    Cookie said:

    UK R

    image

    I'm sure this graph yesterday showed R on its way down?
    Yesterday...

    image
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    edited June 2021

    stodge said:

    dixiedean said:

    39.8 °C in Victoria BC. 42.7 in Port Alberni. And 49 + in BC Interior.
    These are extraordinary temperatures for a place with a normally middle England climate.

    It's a real warning and should be seen as such.

    130 people, mostly elderly, have died in Vancouver during this heatwave. British Columbia isn't like California and is unprepared for heat of this scale.

    As are we.

    5-10 consecutive days of temperatures above 40c in London are, in my view, likely in the next 10-20 years - how prepared are we in terms of demands on the power grid and the likelihood of dozens if not scores of deaths among elderly people who cannot deal with the heat and associated humidity?

    70,000 are estimated to have perished in the 2003 European heatwave - 14,000 died in France which has slightly more experience of heat than the UK.
    The Met Office have recently announced a new category of severe weather - Extreme Heat - for the national severe weather warning system.

    It's likely that we'd have several days' notice of a dangerous heatwave. What I'm not sure of is what could be done in response. I guess rescheduling things to make sure you don't have to be outside during the middle of the day is one thing.

    In terms of longer term preparation there's a lot that needs to be done to make the rail network more resilient. Its performance in summer 2019 in response to the heat then was abysmal.
    It's quite sobering to reflect exactly how high the temperatures are in BC.
    Victoria has 39.7 previous record high was 30.5.
    What on Earth would we do with a record smashed by 9°C +.? More than the trains would fail. Warning or no.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    edited June 2021

    stodge said:

    dixiedean said:

    39.8 °C in Victoria BC. 42.7 in Port Alberni. And 49 + in BC Interior.
    These are extraordinary temperatures for a place with a normally middle England climate.

    It's a real warning and should be seen as such.

    130 people, mostly elderly, have died in Vancouver during this heatwave. British Columbia isn't like California and is unprepared for heat of this scale.

    As are we.

    5-10 consecutive days of temperatures above 40c in London are, in my view, likely in the next 10-20 years - how prepared are we in terms of demands on the power grid and the likelihood of dozens if not scores of deaths among elderly people who cannot deal with the heat and associated humidity?

    70,000 are estimated to have perished in the 2003 European heatwave - 14,000 died in France which has slightly more experience of heat than the UK.
    The Met Office have recently announced a new category of severe weather - Extreme Heat - for the national severe weather warning system.

    It's likely that we'd have several days' notice of a dangerous heatwave. What I'm not sure of is what could be done in response. I guess rescheduling things to make sure you don't have to be outside during the middle of the day is one thing.

    In terms of longer term preparation there's a lot that needs to be done to make the rail network more resilient. Its performance in summer 2019 in response to the heat then was abysmal.
    Our eldest son and his wife live in North Vancouver and they have said it is just plain dangerous, and their air conditioning, even overnight, just blows hot air

    Canada is the second coldest country on the planet, and even in the hottest summers they do not get temperatures anywhere near this

    And my daughter in law is very worried about her 78 year old Mother who lives nearby

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    So, what new evidence is there that specifically excludes zoonosis?
    Nothing, of course. Which is why I specifically did not exclude it.

    I said natural zoonosis outside the lab is now regarded, by most, as less likely than a lab leak - whether accidental or deliberate, engineered or not. And polls show I am right (at least in the USA). Most agree with me

    Meanwhile the weight of circumstantial evidence continues to pile on the lab leak side of the debate. The recent revelation of inexplicable Wuhan Lab data deletion, in Q3 2019, being one such
    That is not a conclusion supported by the guy who uncovered the deletion.
    https://twitter.com/jbloom_lab

    It’s simply not true to say that evidence piles up in support of the lab leak hypothesis.
  • logical_songlogical_song Posts: 9,913

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20
    A sentence starting "Most Americans believe..." is not one that is really going to be a slam dunker in an argument.
    It is - but perhaps not in the way its deployer might wish.

    Edit: of course, this does not apply when the issue of popuilar belief itself is beign discussed, rather than the strict validity of the belief itself.
    Apparently nearly 80% of Americans believe in at least one unscientifically proven idea! However, only 2.3% of respondents identified as flat earthers (which out of a population of 331M is still quite a lot of absolute loons!)
    While on that topic ...

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/the-flat-earths-controversial-hq-in-inverness-appears-to-ha-242960/
    Fantastic! I love the quote at the end of the article: Two millennia of scientific consensus has it that the earth is spherical.
    "The Flat Earth Society was set up by Samuel Shenton in 1956 in the English town of Dover and remains active today."
    Great place to see the ships disappear over the horizon.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,773

    Cookie said:

    UK R

    image

    I'm sure this graph yesterday showed R on its way down?
    Yesterday...

    image
    Thanks. I wonder what I was remembering then? Rather discouraging, at any rate, no?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871

    The Met Office have recently announced a new category of severe weather - Extreme Heat - for the national severe weather warning system.

    It's likely that we'd have several days' notice of a dangerous heatwave. What I'm not sure of is what could be done in response. I guess rescheduling things to make sure you don't have to be outside during the middle of the day is one thing.

    In terms of longer term preparation there's a lot that needs to be done to make the rail network more resilient. Its performance in summer 2019 in response to the heat then was abysmal.

    Yes, the forecasting system is much improved and we'd certainly get some warning though the severity and duration might still be open to some interpretation nearer the time.

    "Plumes" of hot air from North Africa, via Iberia and France, are often forecast but rarely do more than clip the south east corner of England - we have, as you say, had recent experience of severe heat in 2019 and the point you make about transport infrastructure is wholly valid.

    In addition, while some tube lines now have trains with aircon, most don't and in the deeper parts of the Central, Piccadilly and Northern lines, you can add 10c to the ambient outdoor temperatures so that would mean parts of the tube network at 50c or more which is fine until and unless the trains stop....

    The road network is also vulnerable as is the electrical grid and water supplies given a huge spike in demand - can supermarkets supply enough cold drinks to keep people going?

    No doubt we'll hear the usual "stiff upper lip" nonsense but the practical solution would be for people to stay home, hydrated and keep cool (and that includes children as well). Hopefully there's been plenty of co-ordinated thinking and planning so we will be ready when (and it is a when) it happens.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270

    Over 70s and front line health workers to get third vaccine in the autumn

    Yeah my manager told me this morning that preparations are underway at our Trust. Last year we got our flu campaign under way earlier and during a much quicker time frame in preparation for the Covid vaccine so if we are going to run Flu alongside the Covid vaccine it's going to be interesting times.

    The extra admin we took on for Covid have been extended until Easter and we have made sure to keep in contact with our vaccinators so they are ready to go come the Autumn. We are anticipating a fair few more will come through our recruitment and Occupational Health clearing process.

    I found it very rewarding work being at our vaccination hub and whilst part of me is sad that we are going to be needed again I have to say I am kind of looking forward to working there again in some ways. We developed a real camaraderie and spirit there as a team and I am looking forward to seeing some familiar faces.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354

    Over 70s and front line health workers to get third vaccine in the autumn

    At school, I have been bombarded with questions about whether teenagers will be vaccinated. Because they all really want to be vaccinated.

    Which, given I work in a large multiethnic school in a poor area, I will take as a very encouraging sign if the government does go down that route.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214
    Pulpstar said:

    dixiedean said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Back of the fag packet indicates about 100,000 reported cases on the 21st July two days after freedom day.

    Freedom Day will be a lot of folk off work day by the sounds of it.
    I reckon we'll top out about 150,000 daily cases start of August then head downhill.
    That's a fair bit higher than the actual peak in January 2021 (about 70k) or the inferred peak in Spring 2020 (God knows, but possibly not as high, since the deaths peak was lower). Now the cases now are a lot less harmful than before (because the old and hence most vulnerable are double jabbed) but a lot of them are still nasty. And some (albeit a lot fewer than before) are still fatal.

    If the harm factor is a tenth of what it was before, that's about three doublings. If it's a hundredth, that's about seven doublings.

    Is the UK really going to take this on the chin and let it wash over us?
    When we have access to working vaccines?

    (Note that even if this works internally, it means that other nations are going to rightly treat us as Plague Island.)
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871
    dixiedean said:


    It's quite sobering to reflect exactly how high the temperatures are in BC.
    Victoria has 39.7 previous record high was 30.5.
    What on Earth would we do with a record smashed by 9°C +.? More than the trains would fail. Warning or no.

    Indeed, the UK record is 38.7c set in Cambridge barely two years ago. I doubt we'd go 9c higher in one go but could certainly imagine 42c in London (108 in old money) which would cause a lot of problems.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    jonny83 said:

    Over 70s and front line health workers to get third vaccine in the autumn

    Yeah my manager told me this morning that preparations are underway at our Trust. Last year we got our flu campaign under way earlier and during a much quicker time frame in preparation for the Covid vaccine so if we are going to run Flu alongside the Covid vaccine it's going to be interesting times.

    The extra admin we took on for Covid have been extended until Easter and we have made sure to keep in contact with our vaccinators so they are ready to go come the Autumn. We are anticipating a fair few more will come through our recruitment and Occupational Health clearing process.

    I found it very rewarding work being at our vaccination hub and whilst part of me is sad that we are going to be needed again I have to say I am kind of looking forward to working there again in some ways. We developed a real camaraderie and spirit there as a team and I am looking forward to seeing some familiar faces.
    I have already been asked if I would like a flu jab.*

    Last year that was in October (and then it never happened).

    *As I am not currently in a priority category I would have to pay for it.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865

    stodge said:

    Sandpit said:


    The inflation is definitely coming, so much pent-up demand in the economy, and a similar pattern all around the world. The first countries back to something approaching normal, are going to go gangbusters.

    Naturally, there's pent up demand but there's only so many holidays, restaurant tables and the like on offer so demand outstrips supply and you can guess the rest.

    It explains the house price surge which is enhanced by the desire to "flee" London and SE commuter land and enjoy a new hybrid working existence with a home office overlooking a Scottish loch or in one of the Conservative heartlands of the north and midlands.
    Inflation has always been too much money chasing too many goods (and people).

    Good thing we haven't created shedloads of money at the same time as mucking around with our supplies of goods and people, eh?

    Bugger.
    Having to pay more money for lorry drivers won't help keep prices down. Otoh, it might be good for unemployment.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214
    ydoethur said:

    jonny83 said:

    Over 70s and front line health workers to get third vaccine in the autumn

    Yeah my manager told me this morning that preparations are underway at our Trust. Last year we got our flu campaign under way earlier and during a much quicker time frame in preparation for the Covid vaccine so if we are going to run Flu alongside the Covid vaccine it's going to be interesting times.

    The extra admin we took on for Covid have been extended until Easter and we have made sure to keep in contact with our vaccinators so they are ready to go come the Autumn. We are anticipating a fair few more will come through our recruitment and Occupational Health clearing process.

    I found it very rewarding work being at our vaccination hub and whilst part of me is sad that we are going to be needed again I have to say I am kind of looking forward to working there again in some ways. We developed a real camaraderie and spirit there as a team and I am looking forward to seeing some familiar faces.
    I have already been asked if I would like a flu jab.*

    Last year that was in October (and then it never happened).

    *As I am not currently in a priority category I would have to pay for it.
    Given the cost of even a day's cover, and the amount of snot in the average school, I'm baffled that schools don't pay for their staff to have a flu shot.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20
    A sentence starting "Most Americans believe..." is not one that is really going to be a slam dunker in an argument.
    It is - but perhaps not in the way its deployer might wish.

    Edit: of course, this does not apply when the issue of popuilar belief itself is beign discussed, rather than the strict validity of the belief itself.
    Apparently nearly 80% of Americans believe in at least one unscientifically proven idea! However, only 2.3% of respondents identified as flat earthers (which out of a population of 331M is still quite a lot of absolute loons!)
    While on that topic ...

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/the-flat-earths-controversial-hq-in-inverness-appears-to-ha-242960/
    Fantastic! I love the quote at the end of the article: Two millennia of scientific consensus has it that the earth is spherical.
    "The Flat Earth Society was set up by Samuel Shenton in 1956 in the English town of Dover and remains active today."
    Great place to see the ships disappear over the horizon.
    That's because the earth isn't exactly flat but an inverted saucer with a tiny curve, but not so much that the sea falls off. The moon is flat.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20


    The link to Catherine Herridge's twitter is not working for me. What does it say?
    It's a good summary. It definitely tends towards lab leak, and it looks bad for Fauci

    Maybe this will work for you


    https://twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/1410213850092298248?s=20
    Thanks. Catherine is a very serious journalist, but a little prone to juicy conspiracies.
    But this literally *is* a juicy conspiracy

    No matter where the virus came from, the evidence of an initial cover-up is now incontestable


    ‘Chinese scientists have deleted crucial data from the earliest confirmed Covid patients’

    https://twitter.com/mailonline/status/1407694318371053568?s=21
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,664

    ydoethur said:

    jonny83 said:

    Over 70s and front line health workers to get third vaccine in the autumn

    Yeah my manager told me this morning that preparations are underway at our Trust. Last year we got our flu campaign under way earlier and during a much quicker time frame in preparation for the Covid vaccine so if we are going to run Flu alongside the Covid vaccine it's going to be interesting times.

    The extra admin we took on for Covid have been extended until Easter and we have made sure to keep in contact with our vaccinators so they are ready to go come the Autumn. We are anticipating a fair few more will come through our recruitment and Occupational Health clearing process.

    I found it very rewarding work being at our vaccination hub and whilst part of me is sad that we are going to be needed again I have to say I am kind of looking forward to working there again in some ways. We developed a real camaraderie and spirit there as a team and I am looking forward to seeing some familiar faces.
    I have already been asked if I would like a flu jab.*

    Last year that was in October (and then it never happened).

    *As I am not currently in a priority category I would have to pay for it.
    Given the cost of even a day's cover, and the amount of snot in the average school, I'm baffled that schools don't pay for their staff to have a flu shot.
    Some companies certainly do that.

    I didn't bother this year on the grounds that there was no flu, and catching Covid whilst having the jab was a non-zero probability.

    I will bother this year.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354

    ydoethur said:

    jonny83 said:

    Over 70s and front line health workers to get third vaccine in the autumn

    Yeah my manager told me this morning that preparations are underway at our Trust. Last year we got our flu campaign under way earlier and during a much quicker time frame in preparation for the Covid vaccine so if we are going to run Flu alongside the Covid vaccine it's going to be interesting times.

    The extra admin we took on for Covid have been extended until Easter and we have made sure to keep in contact with our vaccinators so they are ready to go come the Autumn. We are anticipating a fair few more will come through our recruitment and Occupational Health clearing process.

    I found it very rewarding work being at our vaccination hub and whilst part of me is sad that we are going to be needed again I have to say I am kind of looking forward to working there again in some ways. We developed a real camaraderie and spirit there as a team and I am looking forward to seeing some familiar faces.
    I have already been asked if I would like a flu jab.*

    Last year that was in October (and then it never happened).

    *As I am not currently in a priority category I would have to pay for it.
    Given the cost of even a day's cover, and the amount of snot in the average school, I'm baffled that schools don't pay for their staff to have a flu shot.
    Well, it would be through the school, but last year they wanted eight quid for it.

    I would say that’s a bargain from a personal point of view. Certainly, as you say, a bargain for the school - £8 vs £200-odd a day supply.

    The only thing that makes me feel slightly ambivalent is the thought that if I have the jab somebody in a more vulnerable category might miss out.

    Equally, I believe it’s very rare to run out of flu jabs.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited June 2021
    We could be in for a long night tomorrow. These are the previous declaration times in Batley and Spen, and none of these results was particularly close, ie. at least 3,500 majority. I don't have the declaration time for the previous by-election atm.

    2019 — 5:16am
    2017 — 4:00am
    2015 — 6:29am
    2010 — 4:59am
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576

    stodge said:

    dixiedean said:

    39.8 °C in Victoria BC. 42.7 in Port Alberni. And 49 + in BC Interior.
    These are extraordinary temperatures for a place with a normally middle England climate.

    It's a real warning and should be seen as such.

    130 people, mostly elderly, have died in Vancouver during this heatwave. British Columbia isn't like California and is unprepared for heat of this scale.

    As are we.

    5-10 consecutive days of temperatures above 40c in London are, in my view, likely in the next 10-20 years - how prepared are we in terms of demands on the power grid and the likelihood of dozens if not scores of deaths among elderly people who cannot deal with the heat and associated humidity?

    70,000 are estimated to have perished in the 2003 European heatwave - 14,000 died in France which has slightly more experience of heat than the UK.
    The Met Office have recently announced a new category of severe weather - Extreme Heat - for the national severe weather warning system.

    It's likely that we'd have several days' notice of a dangerous heatwave. What I'm not sure of is what could be done in response. I guess rescheduling things to make sure you don't have to be outside during the middle of the day is one thing.

    In terms of longer term preparation there's a lot that needs to be done to make the rail network more resilient. Its performance in summer 2019 in response to the heat then was abysmal.
    In my part of the world, they have a mandated ‘midday break’ for three months in the summer, where it’s not allowed to work outside in the sun between the hours of 12:30 and 15:00. All the construction workers do split shifts in the summer. People who are working outdoors, such as lifeguards, have to be provided shade and water.

    https://www.thenationalnews.com/uae/government/government-announces-start-of-midday-break-hours-as-temperatures-soar-1.1234034
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,174
    stodge said:

    dixiedean said:


    It's quite sobering to reflect exactly how high the temperatures are in BC.
    Victoria has 39.7 previous record high was 30.5.
    What on Earth would we do with a record smashed by 9°C +.? More than the trains would fail. Warning or no.

    Indeed, the UK record is 38.7c set in Cambridge barely two years ago. I doubt we'd go 9c higher in one go but could certainly imagine 42c in London (108 in old money) which would cause a lot of problems.
    That 9 C increase in Canada is remarkable. If you’d asked me what the previous record was I’d have said high 30s. I know they have a cold current up there, but even so it’s still on the edge of a big land mass.

    We are very fortunate in this regard. When we broke our record from 2003 a few years ago it was on a day with fairly strong southerly winds. The recent dry summer never really got that hot.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Andy_JS said:

    We could be in for a long night tomorrow. These are the previous declaration times in Batley and Spen:

    2019 — 5:16am
    2017 — 4:00am
    2015 — 6:29am
    2010 — 4:59am

    If they declared at 6:02, that would be ideal. Catch the early morning news bulletins.

    The fact that my alarm is set for 5:59 is a pure coincidence.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576

    stodge said:

    dixiedean said:

    39.8 °C in Victoria BC. 42.7 in Port Alberni. And 49 + in BC Interior.
    These are extraordinary temperatures for a place with a normally middle England climate.

    It's a real warning and should be seen as such.

    130 people, mostly elderly, have died in Vancouver during this heatwave. British Columbia isn't like California and is unprepared for heat of this scale.

    As are we.

    5-10 consecutive days of temperatures above 40c in London are, in my view, likely in the next 10-20 years - how prepared are we in terms of demands on the power grid and the likelihood of dozens if not scores of deaths among elderly people who cannot deal with the heat and associated humidity?

    70,000 are estimated to have perished in the 2003 European heatwave - 14,000 died in France which has slightly more experience of heat than the UK.
    The Met Office have recently announced a new category of severe weather - Extreme Heat - for the national severe weather warning system.

    It's likely that we'd have several days' notice of a dangerous heatwave. What I'm not sure of is what could be done in response. I guess rescheduling things to make sure you don't have to be outside during the middle of the day is one thing.

    In terms of longer term preparation there's a lot that needs to be done to make the rail network more resilient. Its performance in summer 2019 in response to the heat then was abysmal.
    Our eldest son and his wife live in North Vancouver and they have said it is just plain dangerous, and their air conditioning, even overnight, just blows hot air

    Canada is the second coldest country on the planet, and even in the hottest summers they do not get temperatures anywhere near this

    And my daughter in law is very worried about her 78 year old Mother who lives nearby

    Is it worth finding her mother an hotel for a few days, with air conditioning?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    So, what new evidence is there that specifically excludes zoonosis?
    Nothing, of course. Which is why I specifically did not exclude it.

    I said natural zoonosis outside the lab is now regarded, by most, as less likely than a lab leak - whether accidental or deliberate, engineered or not. And polls show I am right (at least in the USA). Most agree with me

    Meanwhile the weight of circumstantial evidence continues to pile on the lab leak side of the debate. The recent revelation of inexplicable Wuhan Lab data deletion, in Q3 2019, being one such
    That is not a conclusion supported by the guy who uncovered the deletion.
    https://twitter.com/jbloom_lab

    It’s simply not true to say that evidence piles up in support of the lab leak hypothesis.
    Your position on this is frankly bizarre. Is it ideological?
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20
    A sentence starting "Most Americans believe..." is not one that is really going to be a slam dunker in an argument.
    It is - but perhaps not in the way its deployer might wish.

    Edit: of course, this does not apply when the issue of popuilar belief itself is beign discussed, rather than the strict validity of the belief itself.
    Apparently nearly 80% of Americans believe in at least one unscientifically proven idea! However, only 2.3% of respondents identified as flat earthers (which out of a population of 331M is still quite a lot of absolute loons!)
    While on that topic ...

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/the-flat-earths-controversial-hq-in-inverness-appears-to-ha-242960/
    Fantastic! I love the quote at the end of the article: Two millennia of scientific consensus has it that the earth is spherical.
    "The Flat Earth Society was set up by Samuel Shenton in 1956 in the English town of Dover and remains active today."
    Great place to see the ships disappear over the horizon.
    That's because the earth isn't exactly flat but an inverted saucer with a tiny curve, but not so much that the sea falls off. The moon is flat.

    If the moon is flat, wouldn't it become an ellipse as it moves away from us across the sky?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Aslan said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20
    A sentence starting "Most Americans believe..." is not one that is really going to be a slam dunker in an argument.
    It is - but perhaps not in the way its deployer might wish.

    Edit: of course, this does not apply when the issue of popuilar belief itself is beign discussed, rather than the strict validity of the belief itself.
    Apparently nearly 80% of Americans believe in at least one unscientifically proven idea! However, only 2.3% of respondents identified as flat earthers (which out of a population of 331M is still quite a lot of absolute loons!)
    While on that topic ...

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/the-flat-earths-controversial-hq-in-inverness-appears-to-ha-242960/
    Fantastic! I love the quote at the end of the article: Two millennia of scientific consensus has it that the earth is spherical.
    "The Flat Earth Society was set up by Samuel Shenton in 1956 in the English town of Dover and remains active today."
    Great place to see the ships disappear over the horizon.
    That's because the earth isn't exactly flat but an inverted saucer with a tiny curve, but not so much that the sea falls off. The moon is flat.

    If the moon is flat, wouldn't it become an ellipse as it moves away from us across the sky?
    It would be ova and above us.
  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20


    The link to Catherine Herridge's twitter is not working for me. What does it say?
    It's a good summary. It definitely tends towards lab leak, and it looks bad for Fauci

    Maybe this will work for you


    https://twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/1410213850092298248?s=20
    Thanks. Catherine is a very serious journalist, but a little prone to juicy conspiracies.
    But this literally *is* a juicy conspiracy

    No matter where the virus came from, the evidence of an initial cover-up is now incontestable


    ‘Chinese scientists have deleted crucial data from the earliest confirmed Covid patients’

    https://twitter.com/mailonline/status/1407694318371053568?s=21
    It was a massive mistake by Western elites to let China get rich. No country is perfect, but all autocracies are horrible.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20
    A sentence starting "Most Americans believe..." is not one that is really going to be a slam dunker in an argument.
    It is - but perhaps not in the way its deployer might wish.

    Edit: of course, this does not apply when the issue of popuilar belief itself is beign discussed, rather than the strict validity of the belief itself.
    Apparently nearly 80% of Americans believe in at least one unscientifically proven idea! However, only 2.3% of respondents identified as flat earthers (which out of a population of 331M is still quite a lot of absolute loons!)
    While on that topic ...

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/the-flat-earths-controversial-hq-in-inverness-appears-to-ha-242960/
    It isn't possible to live as a normal human being without scientifically unproven ideas. These include: freewill, all concepts of right and wrong, all affirmative beliefs about god or gods, all beliefs about their non existence, every political belief and preference people hold, that Trump is an unsatisfactory person, Middlesex being the best cricket team, that the law of gravity will still prevail next week, and a number of others.

  • AslanAslan Posts: 1,673
    ydoethur said:

    Aslan said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20
    A sentence starting "Most Americans believe..." is not one that is really going to be a slam dunker in an argument.
    It is - but perhaps not in the way its deployer might wish.

    Edit: of course, this does not apply when the issue of popuilar belief itself is beign discussed, rather than the strict validity of the belief itself.
    Apparently nearly 80% of Americans believe in at least one unscientifically proven idea! However, only 2.3% of respondents identified as flat earthers (which out of a population of 331M is still quite a lot of absolute loons!)
    While on that topic ...

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/the-flat-earths-controversial-hq-in-inverness-appears-to-ha-242960/
    Fantastic! I love the quote at the end of the article: Two millennia of scientific consensus has it that the earth is spherical.
    "The Flat Earth Society was set up by Samuel Shenton in 1956 in the English town of Dover and remains active today."
    Great place to see the ships disappear over the horizon.
    That's because the earth isn't exactly flat but an inverted saucer with a tiny curve, but not so much that the sea falls off. The moon is flat.

    If the moon is flat, wouldn't it become an ellipse as it moves away from us across the sky?
    It would be ova and above us.
    But sometimes the moon is above us. Sometimes it is over on the horizon. And it is a circle no matter where it is. That requires a sphere.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    dixiedean said:

    39.8 °C in Victoria BC. 42.7 in Port Alberni. And 49 + in BC Interior.
    These are extraordinary temperatures for a place with a normally middle England climate.

    It's a real warning and should be seen as such.

    130 people, mostly elderly, have died in Vancouver during this heatwave. British Columbia isn't like California and is unprepared for heat of this scale.

    As are we.

    5-10 consecutive days of temperatures above 40c in London are, in my view, likely in the next 10-20 years - how prepared are we in terms of demands on the power grid and the likelihood of dozens if not scores of deaths among elderly people who cannot deal with the heat and associated humidity?

    70,000 are estimated to have perished in the 2003 European heatwave - 14,000 died in France which has slightly more experience of heat than the UK.
    The Met Office have recently announced a new category of severe weather - Extreme Heat - for the national severe weather warning system.

    It's likely that we'd have several days' notice of a dangerous heatwave. What I'm not sure of is what could be done in response. I guess rescheduling things to make sure you don't have to be outside during the middle of the day is one thing.

    In terms of longer term preparation there's a lot that needs to be done to make the rail network more resilient. Its performance in summer 2019 in response to the heat then was abysmal.
    Our eldest son and his wife live in North Vancouver and they have said it is just plain dangerous, and their air conditioning, even overnight, just blows hot air

    Canada is the second coldest country on the planet, and even in the hottest summers they do not get temperatures anywhere near this

    And my daughter in law is very worried about her 78 year old Mother who lives nearby

    Is it worth finding her mother an hotel for a few days, with air conditioning?
    She does have air conditioning and her daughter is within half a mile, but thank you for your kind suggestion
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Aslan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Aslan said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20
    A sentence starting "Most Americans believe..." is not one that is really going to be a slam dunker in an argument.
    It is - but perhaps not in the way its deployer might wish.

    Edit: of course, this does not apply when the issue of popuilar belief itself is beign discussed, rather than the strict validity of the belief itself.
    Apparently nearly 80% of Americans believe in at least one unscientifically proven idea! However, only 2.3% of respondents identified as flat earthers (which out of a population of 331M is still quite a lot of absolute loons!)
    While on that topic ...

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/the-flat-earths-controversial-hq-in-inverness-appears-to-ha-242960/
    Fantastic! I love the quote at the end of the article: Two millennia of scientific consensus has it that the earth is spherical.
    "The Flat Earth Society was set up by Samuel Shenton in 1956 in the English town of Dover and remains active today."
    Great place to see the ships disappear over the horizon.
    That's because the earth isn't exactly flat but an inverted saucer with a tiny curve, but not so much that the sea falls off. The moon is flat.

    If the moon is flat, wouldn't it become an ellipse as it moves away from us across the sky?
    It would be ova and above us.
    But sometimes the moon is above us. Sometimes it is over on the horizon. And it is a circle no matter where it is. That requires a sphere.
    So it shows the flat Earth theory is load of balls?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    Aslan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Aslan said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20
    A sentence starting "Most Americans believe..." is not one that is really going to be a slam dunker in an argument.
    It is - but perhaps not in the way its deployer might wish.

    Edit: of course, this does not apply when the issue of popuilar belief itself is beign discussed, rather than the strict validity of the belief itself.
    Apparently nearly 80% of Americans believe in at least one unscientifically proven idea! However, only 2.3% of respondents identified as flat earthers (which out of a population of 331M is still quite a lot of absolute loons!)
    While on that topic ...

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/the-flat-earths-controversial-hq-in-inverness-appears-to-ha-242960/
    Fantastic! I love the quote at the end of the article: Two millennia of scientific consensus has it that the earth is spherical.
    "The Flat Earth Society was set up by Samuel Shenton in 1956 in the English town of Dover and remains active today."
    Great place to see the ships disappear over the horizon.
    That's because the earth isn't exactly flat but an inverted saucer with a tiny curve, but not so much that the sea falls off. The moon is flat.

    If the moon is flat, wouldn't it become an ellipse as it moves away from us across the sky?
    It would be ova and above us.
    But sometimes the moon is above us. Sometimes it is over on the horizon. And it is a circle no matter where it is. That requires a sphere.
    What if the disk is rotating?
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    RobD said:

    Aslan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Aslan said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20
    A sentence starting "Most Americans believe..." is not one that is really going to be a slam dunker in an argument.
    It is - but perhaps not in the way its deployer might wish.

    Edit: of course, this does not apply when the issue of popuilar belief itself is beign discussed, rather than the strict validity of the belief itself.
    Apparently nearly 80% of Americans believe in at least one unscientifically proven idea! However, only 2.3% of respondents identified as flat earthers (which out of a population of 331M is still quite a lot of absolute loons!)
    While on that topic ...

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/the-flat-earths-controversial-hq-in-inverness-appears-to-ha-242960/
    Fantastic! I love the quote at the end of the article: Two millennia of scientific consensus has it that the earth is spherical.
    "The Flat Earth Society was set up by Samuel Shenton in 1956 in the English town of Dover and remains active today."
    Great place to see the ships disappear over the horizon.
    That's because the earth isn't exactly flat but an inverted saucer with a tiny curve, but not so much that the sea falls off. The moon is flat.

    If the moon is flat, wouldn't it become an ellipse as it moves away from us across the sky?
    It would be ova and above us.
    But sometimes the moon is above us. Sometimes it is over on the horizon. And it is a circle no matter where it is. That requires a sphere.
    What if the disk is rotating?
    Don't gravity waves distort its outline so it appears as a circle regardless of the angle of viewing? Like the speed of light is constant regardless of the motion of the observer?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    dixiedean said:

    39.8 °C in Victoria BC. 42.7 in Port Alberni. And 49 + in BC Interior.
    These are extraordinary temperatures for a place with a normally middle England climate.

    It's a real warning and should be seen as such.

    130 people, mostly elderly, have died in Vancouver during this heatwave. British Columbia isn't like California and is unprepared for heat of this scale.

    As are we.

    5-10 consecutive days of temperatures above 40c in London are, in my view, likely in the next 10-20 years - how prepared are we in terms of demands on the power grid and the likelihood of dozens if not scores of deaths among elderly people who cannot deal with the heat and associated humidity?

    70,000 are estimated to have perished in the 2003 European heatwave - 14,000 died in France which has slightly more experience of heat than the UK.
    The Met Office have recently announced a new category of severe weather - Extreme Heat - for the national severe weather warning system.

    It's likely that we'd have several days' notice of a dangerous heatwave. What I'm not sure of is what could be done in response. I guess rescheduling things to make sure you don't have to be outside during the middle of the day is one thing.

    In terms of longer term preparation there's a lot that needs to be done to make the rail network more resilient. Its performance in summer 2019 in response to the heat then was abysmal.
    Our eldest son and his wife live in North Vancouver and they have said it is just plain dangerous, and their air conditioning, even overnight, just blows hot air

    Canada is the second coldest country on the planet, and even in the hottest summers they do not get temperatures anywhere near this

    And my daughter in law is very worried about her 78 year old Mother who lives nearby

    Is it worth finding her mother an hotel for a few days, with air conditioning?
    She does have air conditioning and her daughter is within half a mile, but thank you for your kind suggestion
    We had a failed a/c unit a couple of summers ago - no question of trying to stay home, straight to the nearest hotel until they fixed it.

    As others have said, the heat and humidity can very quickly turn serious for those not used to it.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,874
    On the subject of flat earth loonies, I do like Professor Dave explains.

    This is his fourth and final word on the matter to prove that the earth isn't flat - the earlier three all use observations that can be done without any scientific equipment to prove the earth can't be flat and is a sphere.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ae_XdFEQDw
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    ydoethur said:

    Aslan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Aslan said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20
    A sentence starting "Most Americans believe..." is not one that is really going to be a slam dunker in an argument.
    It is - but perhaps not in the way its deployer might wish.

    Edit: of course, this does not apply when the issue of popuilar belief itself is beign discussed, rather than the strict validity of the belief itself.
    Apparently nearly 80% of Americans believe in at least one unscientifically proven idea! However, only 2.3% of respondents identified as flat earthers (which out of a population of 331M is still quite a lot of absolute loons!)
    While on that topic ...

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/the-flat-earths-controversial-hq-in-inverness-appears-to-ha-242960/
    Fantastic! I love the quote at the end of the article: Two millennia of scientific consensus has it that the earth is spherical.
    "The Flat Earth Society was set up by Samuel Shenton in 1956 in the English town of Dover and remains active today."
    Great place to see the ships disappear over the horizon.
    That's because the earth isn't exactly flat but an inverted saucer with a tiny curve, but not so much that the sea falls off. The moon is flat.

    If the moon is flat, wouldn't it become an ellipse as it moves away from us across the sky?
    It would be ova and above us.
    But sometimes the moon is above us. Sometimes it is over on the horizon. And it is a circle no matter where it is. That requires a sphere.
    So it shows the flat Earth theory is load of balls?
    Ball.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    On the topic of heat. This is a ‘village’ in Darfur Ethiopia. We are about to climb a volcano at night (way too hot by day)

    My main memory of this place is the heat. It was about 45C as the sun set around 7pm, and didn’t go much lower. Zero air con. Hardly any water. Indescribably horrible. I drank good Ethiopian wine to stay sane
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    Jadon Sancho deal with Man Utd agreed in the region of 73 million
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    ydoethur said:

    Aslan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Aslan said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20
    A sentence starting "Most Americans believe..." is not one that is really going to be a slam dunker in an argument.
    It is - but perhaps not in the way its deployer might wish.

    Edit: of course, this does not apply when the issue of popuilar belief itself is beign discussed, rather than the strict validity of the belief itself.
    Apparently nearly 80% of Americans believe in at least one unscientifically proven idea! However, only 2.3% of respondents identified as flat earthers (which out of a population of 331M is still quite a lot of absolute loons!)
    While on that topic ...

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/the-flat-earths-controversial-hq-in-inverness-appears-to-ha-242960/
    Fantastic! I love the quote at the end of the article: Two millennia of scientific consensus has it that the earth is spherical.
    "The Flat Earth Society was set up by Samuel Shenton in 1956 in the English town of Dover and remains active today."
    Great place to see the ships disappear over the horizon.
    That's because the earth isn't exactly flat but an inverted saucer with a tiny curve, but not so much that the sea falls off. The moon is flat.

    If the moon is flat, wouldn't it become an ellipse as it moves away from us across the sky?
    It would be ova and above us.
    But sometimes the moon is above us. Sometimes it is over on the horizon. And it is a circle no matter where it is. That requires a sphere.
    So it shows the flat Earth theory is load of balls?
    Isn't it the Copernicus Model of the Universe that is a load of balls (circling the sun)?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,576
    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20


    The link to Catherine Herridge's twitter is not working for me. What does it say?
    It's a good summary. It definitely tends towards lab leak, and it looks bad for Fauci

    Maybe this will work for you


    https://twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/1410213850092298248?s=20
    Thanks. Catherine is a very serious journalist, but a little prone to juicy conspiracies.
    But this literally *is* a juicy conspiracy

    No matter where the virus came from, the evidence of an initial cover-up is now incontestable


    ‘Chinese scientists have deleted crucial data from the earliest confirmed Covid patients’

    https://twitter.com/mailonline/status/1407694318371053568?s=21
    It was a massive mistake by Western elites to let China get rich. No country is perfect, but all autocracies are horrible.
    Possibly the biggest foreign policy mistake by the West in decades, was to let China join the WTO. Of course no-one realised at the time, where we would end up.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20

    Without offering any opinions on the hypothesis, I don’t think the phrase “most Americans think...” is quite what it once might have been.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Sandpit said:

    eek said:

    Fujifilm Diosynth Biotechnologies is investing $850m in vaccines plants across the USA and Billingham - it looks like $450m of it will be in Billingham.

    https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19410406.hundreds-jobs-billinghams-fujifilm-vaccines-facility/

    Oh, another $450m of private money finding its way to Northern England.

    It’s almost as if the government are courting investment in vaccine production, just as a large bloc of nations nearby spent three months threatening a manufacturer of vaccines, in the middle of a pandemic.
    Novavax again. Does anyone have any idea in which decade that might finally put in an appearance?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20


    The link to Catherine Herridge's twitter is not working for me. What does it say?
    It's a good summary. It definitely tends towards lab leak, and it looks bad for Fauci

    Maybe this will work for you


    https://twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/1410213850092298248?s=20
    Thanks. Catherine is a very serious journalist, but a little prone to juicy conspiracies.
    But this literally *is* a juicy conspiracy

    No matter where the virus came from, the evidence of an initial cover-up is now incontestable


    ‘Chinese scientists have deleted crucial data from the earliest confirmed Covid patients’

    https://twitter.com/mailonline/status/1407694318371053568?s=21
    Equally though, the data has been recovered. (Ironically because they were storing everything with an American cloud provider who never deleted anything.)

    And - if you read the Bloom analysis - has not contained a smoking gun. Given it was Bloom Labs that discovered the deletions, they hardly sound like they're paid up members of a cover up.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Leon said:

    On the topic of heat. This is a ‘village’ in Darfur Ethiopia. We are about to climb a volcano at night (way too hot by day)

    My main memory of this place is the heat. It was about 45C as the sun set around 7pm, and didn’t go much lower. Zero air con. Hardly any water. Indescribably horrible. I drank good Ethiopian wine to stay sane

    Which ones are you? :smile:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    A better shot of that ‘village’ in Darfur. God help us. And them
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    ydoethur said:

    Aslan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Aslan said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20
    A sentence starting "Most Americans believe..." is not one that is really going to be a slam dunker in an argument.
    It is - but perhaps not in the way its deployer might wish.

    Edit: of course, this does not apply when the issue of popuilar belief itself is beign discussed, rather than the strict validity of the belief itself.
    Apparently nearly 80% of Americans believe in at least one unscientifically proven idea! However, only 2.3% of respondents identified as flat earthers (which out of a population of 331M is still quite a lot of absolute loons!)
    While on that topic ...

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/the-flat-earths-controversial-hq-in-inverness-appears-to-ha-242960/
    Fantastic! I love the quote at the end of the article: Two millennia of scientific consensus has it that the earth is spherical.
    "The Flat Earth Society was set up by Samuel Shenton in 1956 in the English town of Dover and remains active today."
    Great place to see the ships disappear over the horizon.
    That's because the earth isn't exactly flat but an inverted saucer with a tiny curve, but not so much that the sea falls off. The moon is flat.

    If the moon is flat, wouldn't it become an ellipse as it moves away from us across the sky?
    It would be ova and above us.
    But sometimes the moon is above us. Sometimes it is over on the horizon. And it is a circle no matter where it is. That requires a sphere.
    So it shows the flat Earth theory is load of balls?
    The truth will be disc covered one day.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    TimT said:

    ydoethur said:

    Aslan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Aslan said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20
    A sentence starting "Most Americans believe..." is not one that is really going to be a slam dunker in an argument.
    It is - but perhaps not in the way its deployer might wish.

    Edit: of course, this does not apply when the issue of popuilar belief itself is beign discussed, rather than the strict validity of the belief itself.
    Apparently nearly 80% of Americans believe in at least one unscientifically proven idea! However, only 2.3% of respondents identified as flat earthers (which out of a population of 331M is still quite a lot of absolute loons!)
    While on that topic ...

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/the-flat-earths-controversial-hq-in-inverness-appears-to-ha-242960/
    Fantastic! I love the quote at the end of the article: Two millennia of scientific consensus has it that the earth is spherical.
    "The Flat Earth Society was set up by Samuel Shenton in 1956 in the English town of Dover and remains active today."
    Great place to see the ships disappear over the horizon.
    That's because the earth isn't exactly flat but an inverted saucer with a tiny curve, but not so much that the sea falls off. The moon is flat.

    If the moon is flat, wouldn't it become an ellipse as it moves away from us across the sky?
    It would be ova and above us.
    But sometimes the moon is above us. Sometimes it is over on the horizon. And it is a circle no matter where it is. That requires a sphere.
    So it shows the flat Earth theory is load of balls?
    Isn't it the Copernicus Model of the Universe that is a load of balls (circling the sun)?
    I always found that theory rather elliptical.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,865
    edited June 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    stodge said:

    dixiedean said:

    39.8 °C in Victoria BC. 42.7 in Port Alberni. And 49 + in BC Interior.
    These are extraordinary temperatures for a place with a normally middle England climate.

    It's a real warning and should be seen as such.

    130 people, mostly elderly, have died in Vancouver during this heatwave. British Columbia isn't like California and is unprepared for heat of this scale.

    As are we.

    5-10 consecutive days of temperatures above 40c in London are, in my view, likely in the next 10-20 years - how prepared are we in terms of demands on the power grid and the likelihood of dozens if not scores of deaths among elderly people who cannot deal with the heat and associated humidity?

    70,000 are estimated to have perished in the 2003 European heatwave - 14,000 died in France which has slightly more experience of heat than the UK.
    The Met Office have recently announced a new category of severe weather - Extreme Heat - for the national severe weather warning system.

    It's likely that we'd have several days' notice of a dangerous heatwave. What I'm not sure of is what could be done in response. I guess rescheduling things to make sure you don't have to be outside during the middle of the day is one thing.

    In terms of longer term preparation there's a lot that needs to be done to make the rail network more resilient. Its performance in summer 2019 in response to the heat then was abysmal.
    Our eldest son and his wife live in North Vancouver and they have said it is just plain dangerous, and their air conditioning, even overnight, just blows hot air

    Canada is the second coldest country on the planet, and even in the hottest summers they do not get temperatures anywhere near this

    And my daughter in law is very worried about her 78 year old Mother who lives nearby

    Is it worth finding her mother an hotel for a few days, with air conditioning?
    She does have air conditioning and her daughter is within half a mile, but thank you for your kind suggestion
    We had a failed a/c unit a couple of summers ago - no question of trying to stay home, straight to the nearest hotel until they fixed it.

    As others have said, the heat and humidity can very quickly turn serious for those not used to it.
    27 falling from 30 degrees C forecast for Rome Saturday night (England vs Ukraine).
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Foxy said:

    ydoethur said:

    Aslan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Aslan said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20
    A sentence starting "Most Americans believe..." is not one that is really going to be a slam dunker in an argument.
    It is - but perhaps not in the way its deployer might wish.

    Edit: of course, this does not apply when the issue of popuilar belief itself is beign discussed, rather than the strict validity of the belief itself.
    Apparently nearly 80% of Americans believe in at least one unscientifically proven idea! However, only 2.3% of respondents identified as flat earthers (which out of a population of 331M is still quite a lot of absolute loons!)
    While on that topic ...

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/the-flat-earths-controversial-hq-in-inverness-appears-to-ha-242960/
    Fantastic! I love the quote at the end of the article: Two millennia of scientific consensus has it that the earth is spherical.
    "The Flat Earth Society was set up by Samuel Shenton in 1956 in the English town of Dover and remains active today."
    Great place to see the ships disappear over the horizon.
    That's because the earth isn't exactly flat but an inverted saucer with a tiny curve, but not so much that the sea falls off. The moon is flat.

    If the moon is flat, wouldn't it become an ellipse as it moves away from us across the sky?
    It would be ova and above us.
    But sometimes the moon is above us. Sometimes it is over on the horizon. And it is a circle no matter where it is. That requires a sphere.
    So it shows the flat Earth theory is load of balls?
    The truth will be disc covered one day.
    Nobody seems to be in a Terrying hurry to do so.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    On the topic of heat. This is a ‘village’ in Darfur Ethiopia. We are about to climb a volcano at night (way too hot by day)

    My main memory of this place is the heat. It was about 45C as the sun set around 7pm, and didn’t go much lower. Zero air con. Hardly any water. Indescribably horrible. I drank good Ethiopian wine to stay sane

    Which ones are you? :smile:
    I think the guy second left has spotted my multiple identities
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited June 2021
    Shocking stuff

    https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/queensland-premier-annastacia-palaszczuks-spectacular-vaccine-claim-on-abcs-730/news-story/b36e0df9341c7878fca305067b1a1fc1

    “I don’t want an 18 yr old taking a vaccine from which they probably won’t die, to protect them from catching Covid from which they probably won’t die”
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    alex_ said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20

    Without offering any opinions on the hypothesis, I don’t think the phrase “most Americans think...” is quite what it once might have been.
    Yes, what does Q or the book of Revelations have to say on the subject?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,656
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    On the topic of heat. This is a ‘village’ in Darfur Ethiopia. We are about to climb a volcano at night (way too hot by day)

    My main memory of this place is the heat. It was about 45C as the sun set around 7pm, and didn’t go much lower. Zero air con. Hardly any water. Indescribably horrible. I drank good Ethiopian wine to stay sane

    Which ones are you? :smile:
    I think the guy second left has spotted my multiple identities
    What multiple identities Sean
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Aslan said:

    ydoethur said:

    Aslan said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20

    Perhaps not on your Twitter feed.
    No, I mean generally:


    "Most Americans believe in COVID-19 lab leak theory: Poll"

    https://aninews.in/news/world/us/most-americans-believe-in-covid-19-lab-leak-theory-poll20210624111141#.YNQxMWre7n4.twitter


    Indeed, most Americans think their government conspired to hide the truth of this:


    "Poll: Majority believe US Government and media tried to cover up Wuhan lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/DesertReporter/status/1410264107790438412?s=20
    A sentence starting "Most Americans believe..." is not one that is really going to be a slam dunker in an argument.
    It is - but perhaps not in the way its deployer might wish.

    Edit: of course, this does not apply when the issue of popuilar belief itself is beign discussed, rather than the strict validity of the belief itself.
    Apparently nearly 80% of Americans believe in at least one unscientifically proven idea! However, only 2.3% of respondents identified as flat earthers (which out of a population of 331M is still quite a lot of absolute loons!)
    While on that topic ...

    https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/the-flat-earths-controversial-hq-in-inverness-appears-to-ha-242960/
    Fantastic! I love the quote at the end of the article: Two millennia of scientific consensus has it that the earth is spherical.
    "The Flat Earth Society was set up by Samuel Shenton in 1956 in the English town of Dover and remains active today."
    Great place to see the ships disappear over the horizon.
    That's because the earth isn't exactly flat but an inverted saucer with a tiny curve, but not so much that the sea falls off. The moon is flat.

    If the moon is flat, wouldn't it become an ellipse as it moves away from us across the sky?
    It would be ova and above us.
    But sometimes the moon is above us. Sometimes it is over on the horizon. And it is a circle no matter where it is. That requires a sphere.
    That's because the sun and moon are flat discs being pushed across the night sky by a scarab beetle; I thought everyone knew that?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    If anyone is wondering why you would endure 45C at dusk with no air con followed by a 3 hour night-time hike up a volcano it’s because at the end you see this


  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Leon said:


    If anyone is wondering why you would endure 45C at dusk with no air con followed by a 3 hour night-time hike up a volcano it’s because at the end you see this


    That does look rather amazing.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Spain's numbers today looking a bit bad, yesterday was the highest so fare 7,091, and 7 day average of 4,400 but today 9,227

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

    Also Finland, 355 today, last 7 days 129

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/finland/

    Luxembourg also with a new 3rd wave record today.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:


    If anyone is wondering why you would endure 45C at dusk with no air con followed by a 3 hour night-time hike up a volcano it’s because at the end you see this


    That does look rather amazing.
    That’s about a quarter of what you see. A lake of boiling, seething, erupting lava maybe a kilometre wide. When we arrived everyone just fell silent for about 20 minutes. Total, enraptured awe

    I’ve travelled the entire world. Sirte Ale in Ethiopia is a top 3 travel experience
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    We could be in for a long night tomorrow. These are the previous declaration times in Batley and Spen:

    2019 — 5:16am
    2017 — 4:00am
    2015 — 6:29am
    2010 — 4:59am

    If they declared at 6:02, that would be ideal. Catch the early morning news bulletins.

    The fact that my alarm is set for 5:59 is a pure coincidence.
    If it's a close result it could be more like 9 or 10 in the morning before they declare, based on these times.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    edited June 2021
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:


    If anyone is wondering why you would endure 45C at dusk with no air con followed by a 3 hour night-time hike up a volcano it’s because at the end you see this


    That does look rather amazing.
    That’s about a quarter of what you see. A lake of boiling, seething, erupting lava maybe a kilometre wide. When we arrived everyone just fell silent for about 20 minutes. Total, enraptured awe

    I’ve travelled the entire world. Sirte Ale in Ethiopia is a top 3 travel experience
    Just for pleasure? Or is flint sourcing much more difficult than I realised?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    We could be in for a long night tomorrow. These are the previous declaration times in Batley and Spen:

    2019 — 5:16am
    2017 — 4:00am
    2015 — 6:29am
    2010 — 4:59am

    If they declared at 6:02, that would be ideal. Catch the early morning news bulletins.

    The fact that my alarm is set for 5:59 is a pure coincidence.
    If it's a close result it could be more like 9 or 10 in the morning before they declare, based on these times.
    I will be surprised if it’s close. If the Labour vote collapses it will be an easy Tory gain. If it doesn’t, easy Labour hold.

    Now I’ve said that it will of course be five votes and six recounts.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,978
    edited June 2021
    the idiots assaulting and calling for horrible things to happen to Chris Witty....i didn't realise his father was murdered in public by terrorists when he was 17.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    We could be in for a long night tomorrow. These are the previous declaration times in Batley and Spen:

    2019 — 5:16am
    2017 — 4:00am
    2015 — 6:29am
    2010 — 4:59am

    If they declared at 6:02, that would be ideal. Catch the early morning news bulletins.

    The fact that my alarm is set for 5:59 is a pure coincidence.
    If it's a close result it could be more like 9 or 10 in the morning before they declare, based on these times.
    I will be surprised if it’s close. If the Labour vote collapses it will be an easy Tory gain. If it doesn’t, easy Labour hold.

    Now I’ve said that it will of course be five votes and six recounts.
    How do you think Galloway will do?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:


    If anyone is wondering why you would endure 45C at dusk with no air con followed by a 3 hour night-time hike up a volcano it’s because at the end you see this


    That does look rather amazing.
    That’s about a quarter of what you see. A lake of boiling, seething, erupting lava maybe a kilometre wide. When we arrived everyone just fell silent for about 20 minutes. Total, enraptured awe

    I’ve travelled the entire world. Sirte Ale in Ethiopia is a top 3 travel experience
    Just for pleasure? Or is flint sourcing much more difficult than I realised?
    Bit of both.

    One amazing thing about sirte ale is how cheap it is - or was. You fly to Addis Ababa direct from london. £500 return? You pay a local company £300 and they will take you to the Danakil and the salt flats and the chemical desert and the volcano for 4 days, all inclusive

    So you can get a mind-changing, soul-shattering, unbeatable global travel experience for the price of a week in Southend in a 3 star holiday inn
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:


    If anyone is wondering why you would endure 45C at dusk with no air con followed by a 3 hour night-time hike up a volcano it’s because at the end you see this


    That does look rather amazing.
    That’s about a quarter of what you see. A lake of boiling, seething, erupting lava maybe a kilometre wide. When we arrived everyone just fell silent for about 20 minutes. Total, enraptured awe

    I’ve travelled the entire world. Sirte Ale in Ethiopia is a top 3 travel experience
    Which countries haven't you been to?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,620

    the idiots assaulting and calling for horrible things to happen to Chris Witty....i didn't realise his father was murdered in public by terrorists when he was 17.

    Yup in Greece.

    People attacking Whitty and JVT are making me reevaluate my opposition to the death penalty.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354
    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    We could be in for a long night tomorrow. These are the previous declaration times in Batley and Spen:

    2019 — 5:16am
    2017 — 4:00am
    2015 — 6:29am
    2010 — 4:59am

    If they declared at 6:02, that would be ideal. Catch the early morning news bulletins.

    The fact that my alarm is set for 5:59 is a pure coincidence.
    If it's a close result it could be more like 9 or 10 in the morning before they declare, based on these times.
    I will be surprised if it’s close. If the Labour vote collapses it will be an easy Tory gain. If it doesn’t, easy Labour hold.

    Now I’ve said that it will of course be five votes and six recounts.
    How do you think Galloway will do?
    I would love to think he will get only one vote.

    But, realistically, he will probably get about 4-5000 votes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:


    If anyone is wondering why you would endure 45C at dusk with no air con followed by a 3 hour night-time hike up a volcano it’s because at the end you see this


    That does look rather amazing.
    That’s about a quarter of what you see. A lake of boiling, seething, erupting lava maybe a kilometre wide. When we arrived everyone just fell silent for about 20 minutes. Total, enraptured awe

    I’ve travelled the entire world. Sirte Ale in Ethiopia is a top 3 travel experience
    Which countries haven't you been to?
    Most of sub-Saharan Africa. Central America. Central Asia - the stans

    But I have been to almost everywhere I REALLY wanted to go. Which is nice. As travel is getting harder

    I still really want to see Georgia and Armenia, however - I aim to do that this year

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    Sandpit said:

    Aslan said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Selebian said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    My cheerful friend in Cornwall adds this:

    "Delta can transmit in 5-10 seconds"

    Evidence....
    She didn't give a citation. But she IS very clever, top of her profession, not a fool that reads the Express

    She's the sort that does tons of reading. I'm minded to believe that she has, at least, read that somewhere reputable; doesn't make it true, of course

    But we can all see how frigging infectious Delta can be. It's almost as if it this virus was engineered to have maximum virulence, in a lab
    Wait, I thought it was the original version that got leaked from a lab? If so, the lab version was a bit naff really, wasn't it, compared to Delta? So much for enhancement of function.

    Or did the original version and Delta both come from the lab? That really would be careless (lose a virus once, shame on... shame on you, lose a virus... - you can't lose a virus again!)
    At the risk of going around in more @Leon circles...

    The Case Against the Covid-19 Lab Leak Theory
    https://newrepublic.com/article/162689/bats-covid-19-lab-leak-theory
    I don't think anyone believes natural zoonosis outside the lab is likely, not anymore


    "Former State Dept officials tell
    @CBSNews
    significant info about the Wuhan lab was buried in government databases + didn’t reach their desks for nearly a year, as there is a new push to know the origins #COVID19
    @CBS_Herridge
    reports on the lab leak theory"

    https://twitter.com/CBS_Herridge/status/1410222245079830533?s=20


    The New York Times:

    "It’s very difficult to read this and not be convinced that this was a lab leak. This is pretty damning:"

    https://twitter.com/susanthesquark/status/1408660068157911046?s=20


    The link to Catherine Herridge's twitter is not working for me. What does it say?
    It's a good summary. It definitely tends towards lab leak, and it looks bad for Fauci

    Maybe this will work for you


    https://twitter.com/CBSThisMorning/status/1410213850092298248?s=20
    Thanks. Catherine is a very serious journalist, but a little prone to juicy conspiracies.
    But this literally *is* a juicy conspiracy

    No matter where the virus came from, the evidence of an initial cover-up is now incontestable


    ‘Chinese scientists have deleted crucial data from the earliest confirmed Covid patients’

    https://twitter.com/mailonline/status/1407694318371053568?s=21
    It was a massive mistake by Western elites to let China get rich. No country is perfect, but all autocracies are horrible.
    Possibly the biggest foreign policy mistake by the West in decades, was to let China join the WTO. Of course no-one realised at the time, where we would end up.
    How would the world have been different, if they had not joined?

    Taiwan - for example - is not a member of the WTO, and it doesn't seem to have affected its export led economy much.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,354

    the idiots assaulting and calling for horrible things to happen to Chris Witty....i didn't realise his father was murdered in public by terrorists when he was 17.

    Yup in Greece.

    People attacking Whitty and JVT are making me reevaluate my opposition to the death penalty.
    That’s going a bit far. I mean, they may have been wrong on many important points but Whitty and JVT don’t deserve the death penalty.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,129
    BigRich said:

    Spain's numbers today looking a bit bad, yesterday was the highest so fare 7,091, and 7 day average of 4,400 but today 9,227

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/spain/

    Also Finland, 355 today, last 7 days 129

    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/finland/

    Luxembourg also with a new 3rd wave record today.

    It's Delta.

    The UK started heading sharply upwards in mid to late May, and now it's the Continent's turn.

    The El Pais article I linked to earlier is pretty good on what's going on in Spain right now.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Israel is negotiating with the United Kingdom to broker a COVID-19 vaccine swap deal, reports Channel 12 news.

    According to the report, Israel is seeking to ship some of its Pfizer vaccines that are due to expire at the end of July to the UK. In exchange, it is hoping to receive an equivalent number of vaccines that the UK is slated to receive from Pfizer in September.


    https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/israel-negotiating-covid-vaccine-swap-deal-with-uk/
This discussion has been closed.