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What were punters thinking when they bet on the Tories in Chesham at 1/20 – politicalbetting.com

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  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    IanB2 said:

    EU member states have done a remarkable job of catching up. Since the start of this month, Germany, France and Italy have all administered more doses of vaccine on a seven-day average than Britain.

    While the UK remains ahead on fully vaccinated people in both absolute and relative terms, EU countries are catching up fast: Germany, which on Friday passed the milestone of having given a first shot to 50% of its entire population, is due to overtake the UK in the coming days in terms of the total number of people who have had at least one dose.

    Bigger country gives more vaccine doses than smaller country surprise!
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    FF43 said:

    I wonder if the Tories are making a mistake with their Anti-Woke Cancel Culture agenda. What's coming across in the vox pops in Chesham & Amersham is that erstwhile and potential Conservative Party voters don't think the party in its current version is nice. I don't imagine many of them would ever "take the knee", but do believe people do these things for good motives. In any case it's not up to them to control how people think.
    I think it's a sound tactic, but less is more - let the ridiculousness of things speak for themselves, then critique the sillier bits with a long suffering common sense kind of style which will chime well for a lot of people. Go too hard too often and it looks obsessive.
    I think the Anti-Woke thing is more than obsessive. It's divisive, unpleasant and in extreme cases, sinister.

    Thinking about my relative who lives in a leafy suburb of an English town, just retired on a good final salary pension, member of the National Trust etc. As un-Woke as you can get but she absolutely despises wokery (the people calling it out) because she thinks it's mean and disrespectful.
    I agree that people are getting frustrated with the war on woke, it has just become a fringe issue.
    What the tories perhaps actually need to do is to find a way of taking ownership of the term woke, perhaps by linking it to freedom of thought and individual liberty. Then declare the groups and movements we are currently describing as woke as a political extremists or a religious cult, preventing them from ever obtaining any public funding.




  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    Here’s an anti-LibDem article that is definitely worth a read. If only for the lolz it will deliver to everyone other than the most hardened PB Tories.

    Apparently, LibDem by-election victories rely on a ‘voter suppression’ strategy which involves delivering Tory voters so many leaflets that they lose the will to vote altogether.

    Perhaps the GOP could give this a try in the US?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/voter-suppression-lib-dem-style-chesham-and-amersham-election/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    EU member states have done a remarkable job of catching up. Since the start of this month, Germany, France and Italy have all administered more doses of vaccine on a seven-day average than Britain.

    While the UK remains ahead on fully vaccinated people in both absolute and relative terms, EU countries are catching up fast: Germany, which on Friday passed the milestone of having given a first shot to 50% of its entire population, is due to overtake the UK in the coming days in terms of the total number of people who have had at least one dose.

    Bigger country gives more vaccine doses than smaller country surprise!
    But the UK is bigger than France and Italy?
  • NorthofStokeNorthofStoke Posts: 1,758
    dixiedean said:

    Viz top tip.
    Promote freedom of thought and individual liberty by simply declaring those you disagree with to be extremists and cults.

    It is specifically cancel culture, bullying and boycotts that need to be opposed. The barmier aspects of woke will be ignored or ridiculed if intimidation is removed. Any sensible elements will survive.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Charles said:

    Nigelb said:

    Grim figures again in Brazil
    https://twitter.com/avidresearch/status/1405997938124406785

    Bolsanaro bears a heavy responsibility.

    Have they actually had any waves, or has it just been consistently high?
    Pretty well the latter.
    https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107028/brazil-covid-19-cases-deaths/

    They’ve actually administered a decent number of vaccinations since Bolsanaro reversed course away from vaccine denial, back in March. But given their public health infrastructure, which is unusually well set up for large scale vaccination programs, they could have done far better had they not turned down offers from (eg) Pfizer last year.
    https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/pfizer-got-no-response-offers-supply-vaccine-brazil-last-year-exec-says-2021-05-13/
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    Hajrá Magyarország!
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,598
    edited June 2021
    IanB2 said:

    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    EU member states have done a remarkable job of catching up. Since the start of this month, Germany, France and Italy have all administered more doses of vaccine on a seven-day average than Britain.

    While the UK remains ahead on fully vaccinated people in both absolute and relative terms, EU countries are catching up fast: Germany, which on Friday passed the milestone of having given a first shot to 50% of its entire population, is due to overtake the UK in the coming days in terms of the total number of people who have had at least one dose.

    Bigger country gives more vaccine doses than smaller country surprise!
    But the UK is bigger than France and Italy?
    Same size as France and 11m first doses ahead.

    Bigger than Italy and 12m first doses ahead.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860

    IanB2 said:

    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    EU member states have done a remarkable job of catching up. Since the start of this month, Germany, France and Italy have all administered more doses of vaccine on a seven-day average than Britain.

    While the UK remains ahead on fully vaccinated people in both absolute and relative terms, EU countries are catching up fast: Germany, which on Friday passed the milestone of having given a first shot to 50% of its entire population, is due to overtake the UK in the coming days in terms of the total number of people who have had at least one dose.

    Bigger country gives more vaccine doses than smaller country surprise!
    But the UK is bigger than France and Italy?
    Same size as France and 10m first doses ahead.

    Bigger than Italy and 11m first doses ahead.
    Of course, because we had a good head start. But we’ve squandered much of our advantage, since.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996
    Really rubbish vaccine numbers today...

    https://twitter.com/HugoGye/status/1406214084836696067?s=19
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    IanB2 said:

    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    EU member states have done a remarkable job of catching up. Since the start of this month, Germany, France and Italy have all administered more doses of vaccine on a seven-day average than Britain.

    While the UK remains ahead on fully vaccinated people in both absolute and relative terms, EU countries are catching up fast: Germany, which on Friday passed the milestone of having given a first shot to 50% of its entire population, is due to overtake the UK in the coming days in terms of the total number of people who have had at least one dose.

    Bigger country gives more vaccine doses than smaller country surprise!
    But the UK is bigger than France and Italy?
    And? I’m not sure anyone is trumpeting the fact that the U.K. have given more vaccinations (in absolute numbers) than them?
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    dixiedean said:

    Viz top tip.
    Promote freedom of thought and individual liberty by simply declaring those you disagree with to be extremists and cults.

    It is specifically cancel culture, bullying and boycotts that need to be opposed. The barmier aspects of woke will be ignored or ridiculed if intimidation is removed. Any sensible elements will survive.
    What ideally needs to happen is the tories need to own the sensible parts.

    It is good to educate people about slavery and to develop an awareness of history generally.
    Trying taking the anti-slavery and human rights anti-racism agenda to China.
    Stop having a policy of deporting poor black people.
    Rediscover the idea that human freedom and liberty is an achievement that we should be proud of.

    Just call this the woke agenda.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    An honourable draw. Credit to the Magyars.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    My son's former school (going to take a while to get used to that) they had 2 senior pupils, both boys this year. Both girls next. One of each was sexist, apparently.
    Wasn't Boris called Captain of School as a non-sexist way of saying Head Boy? Where Eton leads, the world follows.
    Nah - it’s because the Eton Community is governed by triumvirates.

    The boys are led by the Captain of School (who is Head of College) and the Captain of the Oppidans (who is the Head of the Select) plus the Captain of Boats.

    They select an individual, usually but not always the Captain of School, who represents the boys’ interests on the triumvirate comprising the Head Man, the Lower Master and the [Captain of School] that manages the school day to day

    That triumvirate is overseen by a triumvirate comprising the Provost (who represents the Queen), the Conduct (representing the Bishop of Lincoln) and the Head Man (representing the boys and the beaks)
    Jesus wept.

    What planet are these feckers on?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,598
    IanB2 said:

    IanB2 said:

    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    EU member states have done a remarkable job of catching up. Since the start of this month, Germany, France and Italy have all administered more doses of vaccine on a seven-day average than Britain.

    While the UK remains ahead on fully vaccinated people in both absolute and relative terms, EU countries are catching up fast: Germany, which on Friday passed the milestone of having given a first shot to 50% of its entire population, is due to overtake the UK in the coming days in terms of the total number of people who have had at least one dose.

    Bigger country gives more vaccine doses than smaller country surprise!
    But the UK is bigger than France and Italy?
    Same size as France and 10m first doses ahead.

    Bigger than Italy and 11m first doses ahead.
    Of course, because we had a good head start. But we’ve squandered much of our advantage, since.
    Much of the advantage has already been banked in fewer lives lost and opening up earlier.

    In the end the UK will have vaccinated faster and most likely more than other European countries.

    The effect of the latter will be seen in the coming months and years.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860
    An hour’s break and then we can cheer Portugal against the Germans…
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    dixiedean said:

    Viz top tip.
    Promote freedom of thought and individual liberty by simply declaring those you disagree with to be extremists and cults.

    And call your campaign group something innocuous, like HHUGS, or Stop Funding Hate, where “hate” means Andrew Neil and a bunch of people who, until a couple of months ago were on the BBC and Sky.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,805
    IanB2 said:

    An hour’s break and then we can cheer Portugal against the Germans…

    Hungary might beat this German side, especially if a win takes Hungary through they'll be really up for it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996
    edited June 2021
    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    Viz top tip.
    Promote freedom of thought and individual liberty by simply declaring those you disagree with to be extremists and cults.

    And call your campaign group something innocuous, like HHUGS, or Stop Funding Hate, where “hate” means Andrew Neil and a bunch of people who, until a couple of months ago were on the BBC and Sky.
    Rebecca Long Bailey was on the Nazi News Network yesterday....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996
    10,321 cases, 14 deaths, 226 hospitalisations.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Paul Givan has been told he must step down as First Minister by DUP officials.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57538844

    What a shit-show.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723

    Why can't I watch the football in 4k or even full HD on via iPlayer on my PC....not acceptable in 2021.

    Buy some better equipment?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860

    Paul Givan has been told he must step down as First Minister by DUP officials.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57538844

    What a shit-show.

    The preact to SF topping the poll at the next Stormont elections
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996
    edited June 2021

    Why can't I watch the football in 4k or even full HD on via iPlayer on my PC....not acceptable in 2021.

    Buy some better equipment?
    I have a very expensive telly, but i am working and high quality monitors and its ridiculous that iplayer only.pumps out 720p to pc. Its not 2010.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited June 2021

    Why can't I watch the football in 4k or even full HD on via iPlayer on my PC....not acceptable in 2021.

    Buy some better equipment?
    I have a very expensive telly, but i am working and high quality monitors and its ridiculous that iplayer only.pumps out 720p to pc.
    They’re downgrading computer streams, to stop people uploading pirate HD feeds?

    Or, paying the hosting fees for a couple of million 4k streams is too expensive?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,860

    Why can't I watch the football in 4k or even full HD on via iPlayer on my PC....not acceptable in 2021.

    Buy some better equipment?
    Or sit further away?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561
    IanB2 said:

    An hour’s break and then we can cheer Portugal against the Germans…

    Too much to hope the Germans are the ones who die in the Group of Death?
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,297

    10,321 cases, 14 deaths, 226 hospitalisations.

    Unless I'm being very stupid - it looks like Wales reported no new cases today?
    So presumably the 10,321 needs to be updated to include Wales numbers... won't change things hugely though.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,598

    10,321 cases, 14 deaths, 226 hospitalisations.


    Another day of flattening curves.

    Delta will take weeks to pass through the country but the pattern is set.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    Off topic: I went out for a walk earlier, and was wandering along beside a nearby stream (or 'beck' as the locals call them). I spotted a heron around 20m ahead of me, stood hunting in the stream. Watching the heron, I wasn't watching where I placed my feet, resulting in me slipping on a mossy rock and ending up face down with my feet in the water. Slightly grazed, slightly damp, but a great view of the heron.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    rkrkrk said:

    10,321 cases, 14 deaths, 226 hospitalisations.

    Unless I'm being very stupid - it looks like Wales reported no new cases today?
    So presumably the 10,321 needs to be updated to include Wales numbers... won't change things hugely though.
    Looking at the data it appears that Wales never report any cases on a Saturday. So presumably no material impact on seven day figures
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,598
    We can add Birmingham and Southampton to the list of student covid hotspots.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,297
    alex_ said:

    rkrkrk said:

    10,321 cases, 14 deaths, 226 hospitalisations.

    Unless I'm being very stupid - it looks like Wales reported no new cases today?
    So presumably the 10,321 needs to be updated to include Wales numbers... won't change things hugely though.
    Looking at the data it appears that Wales never report any cases on a Saturday. So presumably no material impact on seven day figures
    Yes you're right!
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2021

    We can add Birmingham and Southampton to the list of student covid hotspots.

    Isn't what's happening now what lockdown sceptics wanted from the off? "Letting it rip" through younger people whilst shielding the elderly and vulnerable? The government have only played ball now that the "shield" is a vaccine rather than having age related restrictions as the LDS wanted
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    MaxPB said:

    IanB2 said:

    An hour’s break and then we can cheer Portugal against the Germans…

    Hungary might beat this German side, especially if a win takes Hungary through they'll be really up for it.
    Yes. Unfortunately the game will be in Munich. So they'll lose the full house advantage.
    But, for all but the final 12 minutes against Portugal they've been mighty impressive in the Group of Death.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    edited June 2021
    Just a note on the rumoured defection of Senior Chinese Security figure Dong Jingwei in February

    1. Its still just a rumour
    2. Its not surprising that months on from the reported defection that there is no confirmation. That shouldn't tilt the view thats its happened or not. Someone like that wont be mentioned for some time until debriefs are completed and the entire aparatus for his resettlement are in place and working
    3. Even if he did jump, there is always the question of it being a provocation move. Only the Chinese themselves and US officials who handled this would have any idea that its credible defection.
    4. Of course the speculation is that this guy would know everything about the Covid origins. He would know something but its also possible he didnt have a ringside seat.

    If he has genuinely defected it is a blow to Chinese operations and the ruling junta, no doubt.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Yokes said:

    Just a note on the rumoured defection of Senior Chinese Security figure Dong Jingwei in February

    1. Its still just a rumour
    2. Its not surprising that months on from the reported defection that there is no confirmation. That shouldn't tilt the view thats its happened or not. Someone like that wont be mentioned for some time until debriefs are completed and the entire aparatus for his resettlement are in place and working
    3. Even if he did jump, there is always the question of it being a provocation move. Only the Chinese themselves and US officials who handled this would have any idea that its credible defection.
    4. Of course the speculation is that this guy would know everything about the Covid origins. He would know something but its also possible he didnt have a ringside seat.

    If he has genuinely defected it is a blow to Chinese operations and the ruling junta, no doubt.

    How long does it take the US authorities, to be satisfied that he isn’t a double agent, pretending to defect in order to pass intelligence back to China?
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332

    Paul Givan has been told he must step down as First Minister by DUP officials.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57538844

    What a shit-show.

    Its their own fault, Poots was the front face and ranking member of the ousting of Foster but somehow the fucking geniuses behind it were too busy thinking their internal politics mattered more than the wider political environment It doesnt, it never does.

    The old phrase about being careful about digging a hole for others lest you fall into it yourself applied.

    Things never go well when the fundamentalists get control.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    Interesting report from the ground in C&A:

    "If Peter Fleet’s campaign slogan had been “HS2, Where`s my Pitchfork?”, he would probably have won handily. Instead he followed the party line."

    https://capx.co/chesham-amersham-ignore-the-pundit-babble-and-focus-on-facts/
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Interesting report from the ground in C&A:

    "If Peter Fleet’s campaign slogan had been “HS2, Where`s my Pitchfork?”, he would probably have won handily. Instead he followed the party line."

    https://capx.co/chesham-amersham-ignore-the-pundit-babble-and-focus-on-facts/

    We need to build rail capacity, and we need to build a million or two more houses.

    If those decisions cost a few seats in certain areas then so be it, they’re still the right decisions and are electorally popular elsewhere.

    The Lib Dem’s can’t call the Tories populist, while they remain in favour of increased immigration but limited building of houses and infrastructure.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402

    Interesting report from the ground in C&A:

    "If Peter Fleet’s campaign slogan had been “HS2, Where`s my Pitchfork?”, he would probably have won handily. Instead he followed the party line."

    https://capx.co/chesham-amersham-ignore-the-pundit-babble-and-focus-on-facts/

    In this less ideological, less Party loyal age, candidates matter at by-elections.
    Mr Fleet did not impress me in his post-defeat interviews.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    edited June 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Yokes said:

    Just a note on the rumoured defection of Senior Chinese Security figure Dong Jingwei in February

    1. Its still just a rumour
    2. Its not surprising that months on from the reported defection that there is no confirmation. That shouldn't tilt the view thats its happened or not. Someone like that wont be mentioned for some time until debriefs are completed and the entire aparatus for his resettlement are in place and working
    3. Even if he did jump, there is always the question of it being a provocation move. Only the Chinese themselves and US officials who handled this would have any idea that its credible defection.
    4. Of course the speculation is that this guy would know everything about the Covid origins. He would know something but its also possible he didnt have a ringside seat.

    If he has genuinely defected it is a blow to Chinese operations and the ruling junta, no doubt.

    How long does it take the US authorities, to be satisfied that he isn’t a double agent, pretending to defect in order to pass intelligence back to China?
    You dont let any defector near your own intelligence operations details at all, if you can, because they dont need to since they are unlikely to go back into the field and become an agent the other way. . They shouldnt have access to details of your operations, agents, methods and actual take. You might ask for opinions and insight based on raw intelligence but you limit the details and blackout the source info. The traffic in knowledge should largely be one way. You spend a lot of time watching the defector during resettlement to ensure they dont change their mind

    The bigger risk is a defector comes with some genuine bona fides, and an enormous amount of complete fabrication. The CIA, who you assume would run this, will have to work out whether its good info, hyperbole or actually planted lies.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    Incredible that Germany are not leading.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Portugal hanging on grimly here already.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    IanB2 said:

    Here’s an anti-LibDem article that is definitely worth a read. If only for the lolz it will deliver to everyone other than the most hardened PB Tories.

    Apparently, LibDem by-election victories rely on a ‘voter suppression’ strategy which involves delivering Tory voters so many leaflets that they lose the will to vote altogether.

    Perhaps the GOP could give this a try in the US?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/voter-suppression-lib-dem-style-chesham-and-amersham-election/

    IanB2 said:

    Here’s an anti-LibDem article that is definitely worth a read. If only for the lolz it will deliver to everyone other than the most hardened PB Tories.

    Apparently, LibDem by-election victories rely on a ‘voter suppression’ strategy which involves delivering Tory voters so many leaflets that they lose the will to vote altogether.

    Perhaps the GOP could give this a try in the US?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/voter-suppression-lib-dem-style-chesham-and-amersham-election/

    I note we have apparently used this tactic sparingly. News to me. It is utter nonsense. We have done this at every target I can remember in my lifetime. Although it may cause some suppression by demotivating the opposition it is hardly the main objective. Conversation is the prime purpose.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    Sucker punch
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Portugal!!
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146

    Paul Givan has been told he must step down as First Minister by DUP officials.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-57538844

    What a shit-show.

    I’m in Schadenfreude heaven.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996
    DavidL said:

    Incredible that Germany are not leading.

    Classic PB...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    I backed Ronaldo anytime scorer but laid him to score two or more and to score a Hat Trick...
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,996
    Just a few people queuing for a jab...look at the picture at top of page

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-57536890
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Sandpit said:

    Why can't I watch the football in 4k or even full HD on via iPlayer on my PC....not acceptable in 2021.

    Buy some better equipment?
    I have a very expensive telly, but i am working and high quality monitors and its ridiculous that iplayer only.pumps out 720p to pc.
    They’re downgrading computer streams, to stop people uploading pirate HD feeds?

    Or, paying the hosting fees for a couple of million 4k streams is too expensive?
    Presumably it's fairly trivial to work out the headers smart TVs send to the BBC, so as to get the 4k stream directly, so (like most anti piracy measures) it'll inconvenience legitimate users while not actually guarding against piracy at all.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    My son's former school (going to take a while to get used to that) they had 2 senior pupils, both boys this year. Both girls next. One of each was sexist, apparently.
    Here's a radical idea, why not just have one and ask for applications and base it on merit...
    Merit?? Good grief, I don't think that you get this at all.

    One of my son's favourite teachers explained to those going for Oxbridge that you are not standing for any of the senior prefect positions, you just don't have time. She was absolutely right. Lots of meetings trying to make sense of the latest nonsense from the Scottish government trying to convert that into a school that could actually operate was exactly what they didn't need.
    Luckily i was too much of a naughty boy / wagged off school to ever be considered for such positions and get in the way of my oxbridge application.
    Me too, headmaster told my mother I would never amount to anything and he almost had apoplexy every year when I beat all the rich kids he adored and he had to hand me the prizes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Why can't I watch the football in 4k or even full HD on via iPlayer on my PC....not acceptable in 2021.

    Buy some better equipment?
    I have a very expensive telly, but i am working and high quality monitors and its ridiculous that iplayer only.pumps out 720p to pc.
    They’re downgrading computer streams, to stop people uploading pirate HD feeds?

    Or, paying the hosting fees for a couple of million 4k streams is too expensive?
    Presumably it's fairly trivial to work out the headers smart TVs send to the BBC, so as to get the 4k stream directly, so (like most anti piracy measures) it'll inconvenience legitimate users while not actually guarding against piracy at all.
    Yes, I’ve not looked into it too much but you’d think so. Almost all anti-piracy measures annoy the hell out of the legitimate customers but don’t stop the piracy.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    dixiedean said:

    Interesting report from the ground in C&A:

    "If Peter Fleet’s campaign slogan had been “HS2, Where`s my Pitchfork?”, he would probably have won handily. Instead he followed the party line."

    https://capx.co/chesham-amersham-ignore-the-pundit-babble-and-focus-on-facts/

    In this less ideological, less Party loyal age, candidates matter at by-elections.
    Mr Fleet did not impress me in his post-defeat interviews.
    No, me neither. Not quite as poor as labours Tees Mayoral candidates rambling losing speech but meh wasn’t great.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021
    Deutschland!

    1-1
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    Never write them off...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    DavidL said:

    My son's former school (going to take a while to get used to that) they had 2 senior pupils, both boys this year. Both girls next. One of each was sexist, apparently.
    Wasn't Boris called Captain of School as a non-sexist way of saying Head Boy? Where Eton leads, the world follows.
    Nah - it’s because the Eton Community is governed by triumvirates.

    The boys are led by the Captain of School (who is Head of College) and the Captain of the Oppidans (who is the Head of the Select) plus the Captain of Boats.

    They select an individual, usually but not always the Captain of School, who represents the boys’ interests on the triumvirate comprising the Head Man, the Lower Master and the [Captain of School] that manages the school day to day

    That triumvirate is overseen by a triumvirate comprising the Provost (who represents the Queen), the Conduct (representing the Bishop of Lincoln) and the Head Man (representing the boys and the beaks)
    Jesus wept.

    What planet are these feckers on?
    The boys are self-governing, overseen by two senior teachers; the boys and the teachers collectively form the School.

    The School itself is self-governing but overseen by the representatives of Church & State.

    Seems fairly logical
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    darkage said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    FF43 said:

    I wonder if the Tories are making a mistake with their Anti-Woke Cancel Culture agenda. What's coming across in the vox pops in Chesham & Amersham is that erstwhile and potential Conservative Party voters don't think the party in its current version is nice. I don't imagine many of them would ever "take the knee", but do believe people do these things for good motives. In any case it's not up to them to control how people think.
    I think it's a sound tactic, but less is more - let the ridiculousness of things speak for themselves, then critique the sillier bits with a long suffering common sense kind of style which will chime well for a lot of people. Go too hard too often and it looks obsessive.
    I think the Anti-Woke thing is more than obsessive. It's divisive, unpleasant and in extreme cases, sinister.

    Thinking about my relative who lives in a leafy suburb of an English town, just retired on a good final salary pension, member of the National Trust etc. As un-Woke as you can get but she absolutely despises wokery (the people calling it out) because she thinks it's mean and disrespectful.
    I agree that people are getting frustrated with the war on woke, it has just become a fringe issue.
    What the tories perhaps actually need to do is to find a way of taking ownership of the term woke, perhaps by linking it to freedom of thought and individual liberty. Then declare the groups and movements we are currently describing as woke as a political extremists or a religious cult, preventing them from ever obtaining any public funding.




    The Tories are, with this, making the same mistake labour supporters do. Namely something that a loud minority obsess over on social media matters to the country as a whole.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320
    edited June 2021
    ping said:

    Deutschland!

    1-1

    they will win

    just put some cash on them as well
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    L
    malcolmg said:

    ping said:

    Deutschland!

    1-1

    they will win
    Indeed
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021
    malcolmg said:

    ping said:

    Deutschland!

    1-1

    they will win
    2-1 now

    Good game
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    I guess if the term 'Head Boy' is being cancelled, we'll not be hearing 'David Watts' on the wireless again.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Just a few people queuing for a jab...look at the picture at top of page

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-57536890

    Given that we keep reading about these events at weekends, which then often seem to be offering relatively few doses to the extent that demand far far exceeds supply, one wonders if the point of them is actually the maximise vaccine distribution, or as much to create the stories of "long queues, many disappointed". The theory being is that the more the message is that the jab is this season's "must have" amongst the young the more likely it is that high take up will be generated (and via the intended distribution route of booking through the website etc). Because these "football ground" events are still a relatively small number of the overall vaccines distributed.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    IanB2 said:

    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    EU member states have done a remarkable job of catching up. Since the start of this month, Germany, France and Italy have all administered more doses of vaccine on a seven-day average than Britain.

    While the UK remains ahead on fully vaccinated people in both absolute and relative terms, EU countries are catching up fast: Germany, which on Friday passed the milestone of having given a first shot to 50% of its entire population, is due to overtake the UK in the coming days in terms of the total number of people who have had at least one dose.

    Bigger country gives more vaccine doses than smaller country surprise!
    But the UK is bigger than France and Italy?
    In terms of total number of doses per 100 population, the UK is on about 110. The EU is on 70-80, giving a gap of about 30 doses per 100 people. At its peak, the gap was about 40 doses per 100, but the EU has slowly accelerated, as the UK has lagged slightly.

    The closing of the gap is less to do with deliveries from pharmaceutical companies, and seems mostly to do with the UK not using AstraZeneca jabs, while most EU countries have been looking to minimise inventory and are no longer "holding" second doses.

    In terms of time, that puts most EU countries about six to eight weeks behind the UK. Because the EU roll out is almost entirely Pfizer (around 80% of all jabs), with Moderna second, the "time" element was probably exaggerated historically. But with the UK moving to mRNA first for younger cohorts, you'd expect that the effective rate of protection is speeding up, even as the rollout is slowing down.

    It is notable that the UK is really pulling away from the US right now. Back at the end of April, the US pulled ahead of the UK for a day or two in terms of total doses adminstered. It's now well behind. Indeed, the US is almost exactly half way between the EU and the UK right now. On current trends, the UK will reach Israel levels at the end of July, while EU countries will catch up with the US at almost exactly the same time.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    alex_ said:

    Just a few people queuing for a jab...look at the picture at top of page

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-57536890

    Given that we keep reading about these events at weekends, which then often seem to be offering relatively few doses to the extent that demand far far exceeds supply, one wonders if the point of them is actually the maximise vaccine distribution, or as much to create the stories of "long queues, many disappointed". The theory being is that the more the message is that the jab is this season's "must have" amongst the young the more likely it is that high take up will be generated (and via the intended distribution route of booking through the website etc). Because these "football ground" events are still a relatively small number of the overall vaccines distributed.
    Queueing round the block for hours just seems daft when you can book online and be in and out in 10 minutes.

    Although for those whose immigration status is somewhat nebulous, a no questions asked turn up and vax has its advantages.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    alex_ said:

    Just a few people queuing for a jab...look at the picture at top of page

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-57536890

    Given that we keep reading about these events at weekends, which then often seem to be offering relatively few doses to the extent that demand far far exceeds supply, one wonders if the point of them is actually the maximise vaccine distribution, or as much to create the stories of "long queues, many disappointed". The theory being is that the more the message is that the jab is this season's "must have" amongst the young the more likely it is that high take up will be generated (and via the intended distribution route of booking through the website etc). Because these "football ground" events are still a relatively small number of the overall vaccines distributed.
    Now that they’re open to anyone over 18, they need to change the marketing tactics. The younger groups aren’t worried about dying of covid, and need incentives to get vaccinated. They never go to their GP anyway, so encouraging queues (and making young people think of necessity and scarcity) might be the best way to go.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904
    Sandpit said:

    Interesting report from the ground in C&A:

    "If Peter Fleet’s campaign slogan had been “HS2, Where`s my Pitchfork?”, he would probably have won handily. Instead he followed the party line."

    https://capx.co/chesham-amersham-ignore-the-pundit-babble-and-focus-on-facts/

    We need to build rail capacity, and we need to build a million or two more houses.

    If those decisions cost a few seats in certain areas then so be it, they’re still the right decisions and are electorally popular elsewhere.

    The Lib Dem’s can’t call the Tories populist, while they remain in favour of increased immigration but limited building of houses and infrastructure.
    But only the Conservatives are in favour of handing all decisions about planning and development over to the large house-building companies.

    When I say "Conservatives" in this context, I mean the Johnson-Conservatives, not the traditional decent ones, who now vote Lib Dem.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    ClippP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting report from the ground in C&A:

    "If Peter Fleet’s campaign slogan had been “HS2, Where`s my Pitchfork?”, he would probably have won handily. Instead he followed the party line."

    https://capx.co/chesham-amersham-ignore-the-pundit-babble-and-focus-on-facts/

    We need to build rail capacity, and we need to build a million or two more houses.

    If those decisions cost a few seats in certain areas then so be it, they’re still the right decisions and are electorally popular elsewhere.

    The Lib Dem’s can’t call the Tories populist, while they remain in favour of increased immigration but limited building of houses and infrastructure.
    But only the Conservatives are in favour of handing all decisions about planning and development over to the large house-building companies.

    When I say "Conservatives" in this context, I mean the Johnson-Conservatives, not the traditional decent ones, who now vote Lib Dem.
    I am a traditional decent conservative but would never vote lib dem
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited June 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    EU member states have done a remarkable job of catching up. Since the start of this month, Germany, France and Italy have all administered more doses of vaccine on a seven-day average than Britain.

    While the UK remains ahead on fully vaccinated people in both absolute and relative terms, EU countries are catching up fast: Germany, which on Friday passed the milestone of having given a first shot to 50% of its entire population, is due to overtake the UK in the coming days in terms of the total number of people who have had at least one dose.

    Bigger country gives more vaccine doses than smaller country surprise!
    But the UK is bigger than France and Italy?
    In terms of total number of doses per 100 population, the UK is on about 110. The EU is on 70-80, giving a gap of about 30 doses per 100 people. At its peak, the gap was about 40 doses per 100, but the EU has slowly accelerated, as the UK has lagged slightly.

    The closing of the gap is less to do with deliveries from pharmaceutical companies, and seems mostly to do with the UK not using AstraZeneca jabs, while most EU countries have been looking to minimise inventory and are no longer "holding" second doses.

    In terms of time, that puts most EU countries about six to eight weeks behind the UK. Because the EU roll out is almost entirely Pfizer (around 80% of all jabs), with Moderna second, the "time" element was probably exaggerated historically. But with the UK moving to mRNA first for younger cohorts, you'd expect that the effective rate of protection is speeding up, even as the rollout is slowing down.

    It is notable that the UK is really pulling away from the US right now. Back at the end of April, the US pulled ahead of the UK for a day or two in terms of total doses adminstered. It's now well behind. Indeed, the US is almost exactly half way between the EU and the UK right now. On current trends, the UK will reach Israel levels at the end of July, while EU countries will catch up with the US at almost exactly the same time.
    US is tailing off, just as Israel did, with a lack of demand.
    U.K. will be ahead of Israel in a couple of weeks.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,150

    Million Miliband charity...

    The International Rescue Committee reinforces “white supremacy culture”, staff have alleged, with the aid organization subsequently hiring a law firm to review its policies relating to discrimination, harassment and retaliation, the Guardian can reveal.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2021/jun/19/david-miliband-charity-international-rescue-committee-white-supremacy-allegations

    "Reinforces" insert bad things..sounds a lot like "my truth" and "alt -right adjacent" smears.

    Trying to get my head around "retaliation".

    Seems it is the harrassment version of hitting someone back, which is probably fair enough.
  • StuartDicksonStuartDickson Posts: 12,146
    IshmaelZ said:

    Sandpit said:

    dixiedean said:

    I suspect that the Internet is to blame here. Folk with little knowledge get a little information and think they can make a few Bob. Without twigging there are thousands of others in the same boat. The markets for Hartlepool were super unrealistic until the first poll. And in C+A right through.
    Herd mentality and groupthink seem to be getting worse.

    Had a look at the Dow Jones or FTSE recently? The herd mentality and groupthink of which you speak are going to ruin a lot of nesteggs in the near future.

    Astute independent thinkers should be looking at alternatives, and I don’t mean Bitcoin.
    It’s about $1,800 an ounce at the moment.
    Yepp. I’m very, very heavy on gold. I expect to be feeling like Mike Smithson after his by election win. But I pose the same question as him: what are stock market investors thinking?!?
    Why is a stock market at record highs more of a wtf are you thinking prospect than a gold market at record highs? Especially given golds unprecedented vulnerability to bitcoin. I'd diversify if I were you.

    Also you can't do the all my money is in gold thing in the internet, and sound sane. One or the other
    Says the man who asserts “unprecedented vulnerability to bitcoin”. Ho ho.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,150

    Charles said:

    It’s because by the age of 18 pupils refer to themselves as “young women” not “girls”.

    I’m surprised that the Mail didn’t use Harriet Harman as their example alumnus
    You mean Harperson..in fact this nickname seems so apt.
    It's quite ironic, because wasn't Harman one of the ones who decided that young people where "children" in law until the age of 18?

    I can't put my hand on the process that did it, though.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,315
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Why can't I watch the football in 4k or even full HD on via iPlayer on my PC....not acceptable in 2021.

    Buy some better equipment?
    I have a very expensive telly, but i am working and high quality monitors and its ridiculous that iplayer only.pumps out 720p to pc.
    They’re downgrading computer streams, to stop people uploading pirate HD feeds?

    Or, paying the hosting fees for a couple of million 4k streams is too expensive?
    Presumably it's fairly trivial to work out the headers smart TVs send to the BBC, so as to get the 4k stream directly, so (like most anti piracy measures) it'll inconvenience legitimate users while not actually guarding against piracy at all.
    Licencing deals may require that streams greater than 720p only go via DRMed channels. Not impossible to crack, but not as simple as “send the right cookies, get 4k data back in the clear”.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    ClippP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting report from the ground in C&A:

    "If Peter Fleet’s campaign slogan had been “HS2, Where`s my Pitchfork?”, he would probably have won handily. Instead he followed the party line."

    https://capx.co/chesham-amersham-ignore-the-pundit-babble-and-focus-on-facts/

    We need to build rail capacity, and we need to build a million or two more houses.

    If those decisions cost a few seats in certain areas then so be it, they’re still the right decisions and are electorally popular elsewhere.

    The Lib Dem’s can’t call the Tories populist, while they remain in favour of increased immigration but limited building of houses and infrastructure.
    But only the Conservatives are in favour of handing all decisions about planning and development over to the large house-building companies.

    When I say "Conservatives" in this context, I mean the Johnson-Conservatives, not the traditional decent ones, who now vote Lib Dem.
    I am a traditional decent conservative but would never vote lib dem
    Why not?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320

    ClippP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting report from the ground in C&A:

    "If Peter Fleet’s campaign slogan had been “HS2, Where`s my Pitchfork?”, he would probably have won handily. Instead he followed the party line."

    https://capx.co/chesham-amersham-ignore-the-pundit-babble-and-focus-on-facts/

    We need to build rail capacity, and we need to build a million or two more houses.

    If those decisions cost a few seats in certain areas then so be it, they’re still the right decisions and are electorally popular elsewhere.

    The Lib Dem’s can’t call the Tories populist, while they remain in favour of increased immigration but limited building of houses and infrastructure.
    But only the Conservatives are in favour of handing all decisions about planning and development over to the large house-building companies.

    When I say "Conservatives" in this context, I mean the Johnson-Conservatives, not the traditional decent ones, who now vote Lib Dem.
    I am a traditional decent conservative but would never vote lib dem
    Why not?
    Because they are crap , neither liberal or democratic
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    MattW said:

    Charles said:

    It’s because by the age of 18 pupils refer to themselves as “young women” not “girls”.

    I’m surprised that the Mail didn’t use Harriet Harman as their example alumnus
    You mean Harperson..in fact this nickname seems so apt.
    It's quite ironic, because wasn't Harman one of the ones who decided that young people where "children" in law until the age of 18?

    I can't put my hand on the process that did it, though.
    Harperson was a big fan of PIE in the 70s.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/pie-controversy-harriet-harman-has-got-one-wrong-9162728.html
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    malcolmg said:

    ClippP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting report from the ground in C&A:

    "If Peter Fleet’s campaign slogan had been “HS2, Where`s my Pitchfork?”, he would probably have won handily. Instead he followed the party line."

    https://capx.co/chesham-amersham-ignore-the-pundit-babble-and-focus-on-facts/

    We need to build rail capacity, and we need to build a million or two more houses.

    If those decisions cost a few seats in certain areas then so be it, they’re still the right decisions and are electorally popular elsewhere.

    The Lib Dem’s can’t call the Tories populist, while they remain in favour of increased immigration but limited building of houses and infrastructure.
    But only the Conservatives are in favour of handing all decisions about planning and development over to the large house-building companies.

    When I say "Conservatives" in this context, I mean the Johnson-Conservatives, not the traditional decent ones, who now vote Lib Dem.
    I am a traditional decent conservative but would never vote lib dem
    Why not?
    Because they are crap , neither liberal or democratic
    To be fair, that describes most political parties.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021
    Shellacking for Portugal

    4-1 Germany

    Germany to lift the cup?
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,705
    Sandpit said:

    alex_ said:

    Just a few people queuing for a jab...look at the picture at top of page

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-57536890

    Given that we keep reading about these events at weekends, which then often seem to be offering relatively few doses to the extent that demand far far exceeds supply, one wonders if the point of them is actually the maximise vaccine distribution, or as much to create the stories of "long queues, many disappointed". The theory being is that the more the message is that the jab is this season's "must have" amongst the young the more likely it is that high take up will be generated (and via the intended distribution route of booking through the website etc). Because these "football ground" events are still a relatively small number of the overall vaccines distributed.
    Now that they’re open to anyone over 18, they need to change the marketing tactics. The younger groups aren’t worried about dying of covid, and need incentives to get vaccinated. They never go to their GP anyway, so encouraging queues (and making young people think of necessity and scarcity) might be the best way to go.
    The Scottish Government is running TV ads about how it wants everyone, double jabbed or not, to take twice weekly covid tests to see if they're asymptomatic even if feeling fine.

    As a general vaccine marketing tactic for anyone, let alone younger people, this seems...questionable.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,150
    kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    Here’s an anti-LibDem article that is definitely worth a read. If only for the lolz it will deliver to everyone other than the most hardened PB Tories.

    Apparently, LibDem by-election victories rely on a ‘voter suppression’ strategy which involves delivering Tory voters so many leaflets that they lose the will to vote altogether.

    Perhaps the GOP could give this a try in the US?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/voter-suppression-lib-dem-style-chesham-and-amersham-election/

    IanB2 said:

    Here’s an anti-LibDem article that is definitely worth a read. If only for the lolz it will deliver to everyone other than the most hardened PB Tories.

    Apparently, LibDem by-election victories rely on a ‘voter suppression’ strategy which involves delivering Tory voters so many leaflets that they lose the will to vote altogether.

    Perhaps the GOP could give this a try in the US?

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/voter-suppression-lib-dem-style-chesham-and-amersham-election/

    I note we have apparently used this tactic sparingly. News to me. It is utter nonsense. We have done this at every target I can remember in my lifetime. Although it may cause some suppression by demotivating the opposition it is hardly the main objective. Conversation is the prime purpose.
    A piece with some good points, but contentious language used contentiously and a lot of relevant points missed out.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    ping said:

    Shellacking for Portugal

    4-1 Germany

    Germany to lift the cup?

    They'll have to get past England first...
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    Sandpit said:

    alex_ said:

    Just a few people queuing for a jab...look at the picture at top of page

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-57536890

    Given that we keep reading about these events at weekends, which then often seem to be offering relatively few doses to the extent that demand far far exceeds supply, one wonders if the point of them is actually the maximise vaccine distribution, or as much to create the stories of "long queues, many disappointed". The theory being is that the more the message is that the jab is this season's "must have" amongst the young the more likely it is that high take up will be generated (and via the intended distribution route of booking through the website etc). Because these "football ground" events are still a relatively small number of the overall vaccines distributed.
    Now that they’re open to anyone over 18, they need to change the marketing tactics. The younger groups aren’t worried about dying of covid, and need incentives to get vaccinated. They never go to their GP anyway, so encouraging queues (and making young people think of necessity and scarcity) might be the best way to go.
    The Scottish Government is running TV ads about how it wants everyone, double jabbed or not, to take twice weekly covid tests to see if they're asymptomatic even if feeling fine.

    As a general vaccine marketing tactic for anyone, let alone younger people, this seems...questionable.
    That is the policy in England too.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175

    ping said:

    Shellacking for Portugal

    4-1 Germany

    Germany to lift the cup?

    They'll have to get past England first...
    That's far from certain.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716

    Sandpit said:

    alex_ said:

    Just a few people queuing for a jab...look at the picture at top of page

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-57536890

    Given that we keep reading about these events at weekends, which then often seem to be offering relatively few doses to the extent that demand far far exceeds supply, one wonders if the point of them is actually the maximise vaccine distribution, or as much to create the stories of "long queues, many disappointed". The theory being is that the more the message is that the jab is this season's "must have" amongst the young the more likely it is that high take up will be generated (and via the intended distribution route of booking through the website etc). Because these "football ground" events are still a relatively small number of the overall vaccines distributed.
    Now that they’re open to anyone over 18, they need to change the marketing tactics. The younger groups aren’t worried about dying of covid, and need incentives to get vaccinated. They never go to their GP anyway, so encouraging queues (and making young people think of necessity and scarcity) might be the best way to go.
    The Scottish Government is running TV ads about how it wants everyone, double jabbed or not, to take twice weekly covid tests to see if they're asymptomatic even if feeling fine.

    As a general vaccine marketing tactic for anyone, let alone younger people, this seems...questionable.
    That is the policy in England too.
    I don't know a single person who is doing this frankly.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    Sandpit said:

    alex_ said:

    Just a few people queuing for a jab...look at the picture at top of page

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-57536890

    Given that we keep reading about these events at weekends, which then often seem to be offering relatively few doses to the extent that demand far far exceeds supply, one wonders if the point of them is actually the maximise vaccine distribution, or as much to create the stories of "long queues, many disappointed". The theory being is that the more the message is that the jab is this season's "must have" amongst the young the more likely it is that high take up will be generated (and via the intended distribution route of booking through the website etc). Because these "football ground" events are still a relatively small number of the overall vaccines distributed.
    Now that they’re open to anyone over 18, they need to change the marketing tactics. The younger groups aren’t worried about dying of covid, and need incentives to get vaccinated. They never go to their GP anyway, so encouraging queues (and making young people think of necessity and scarcity) might be the best way to go.
    The Scottish Government is running TV ads about how it wants everyone, double jabbed or not, to take twice weekly covid tests to see if they're asymptomatic even if feeling fine.

    As a general vaccine marketing tactic for anyone, let alone younger people, this seems...questionable.
    That is the policy in England too.
    I don't know a single person who is doing this frankly.
    It’s the policy in schools. But I don’t think it can be kept up much longer. It’s already noticeable how many children are simply refusing to take kits.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited June 2021

    Sandpit said:

    alex_ said:

    Just a few people queuing for a jab...look at the picture at top of page

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-57536890

    Given that we keep reading about these events at weekends, which then often seem to be offering relatively few doses to the extent that demand far far exceeds supply, one wonders if the point of them is actually the maximise vaccine distribution, or as much to create the stories of "long queues, many disappointed". The theory being is that the more the message is that the jab is this season's "must have" amongst the young the more likely it is that high take up will be generated (and via the intended distribution route of booking through the website etc). Because these "football ground" events are still a relatively small number of the overall vaccines distributed.
    Now that they’re open to anyone over 18, they need to change the marketing tactics. The younger groups aren’t worried about dying of covid, and need incentives to get vaccinated. They never go to their GP anyway, so encouraging queues (and making young people think of necessity and scarcity) might be the best way to go.
    The Scottish Government is running TV ads about how it wants everyone, double jabbed or not, to take twice weekly covid tests to see if they're asymptomatic even if feeling fine.

    As a general vaccine marketing tactic for anyone, let alone younger people, this seems...questionable.
    Indeed. The other problem (or possibly deliberate point) of encouraging people to do regular asymptomatic testing, which then feeds into national case numbers, is it (unlike eg. proper statistical asymptomatic testing done by the likes of the ONS) is that it is massively open to manipulation because testing levels can rise or fall to generate rises and falls in published headline case numbers.

    In managing the severity of the pandemic and the effect on hospitalisation and death, it really feels as if the important figures are for using symptomatic testing as the early warning indicators (if it isn't sufficient to wait for evidence in hospitalisations etc)

    Also - what happened to the story of a week or so ago that the lateral flow testing that everyone in the UK had been discredited. Presumably just glossed over because the Govt has spent so much money on them, so has to continue to use them as a feature of anti-Covid policy anyway?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    IanB2 said:

    alex_ said:

    IanB2 said:

    EU member states have done a remarkable job of catching up. Since the start of this month, Germany, France and Italy have all administered more doses of vaccine on a seven-day average than Britain.

    While the UK remains ahead on fully vaccinated people in both absolute and relative terms, EU countries are catching up fast: Germany, which on Friday passed the milestone of having given a first shot to 50% of its entire population, is due to overtake the UK in the coming days in terms of the total number of people who have had at least one dose.

    Bigger country gives more vaccine doses than smaller country surprise!
    But the UK is bigger than France and Italy?
    In terms of total number of doses per 100 population, the UK is on about 110. The EU is on 70-80, giving a gap of about 30 doses per 100 people. At its peak, the gap was about 40 doses per 100, but the EU has slowly accelerated, as the UK has lagged slightly.

    The closing of the gap is less to do with deliveries from pharmaceutical companies, and seems mostly to do with the UK not using AstraZeneca jabs, while most EU countries have been looking to minimise inventory and are no longer "holding" second doses.

    In terms of time, that puts most EU countries about six to eight weeks behind the UK. Because the EU roll out is almost entirely Pfizer (around 80% of all jabs), with Moderna second, the "time" element was probably exaggerated historically. But with the UK moving to mRNA first for younger cohorts, you'd expect that the effective rate of protection is speeding up, even as the rollout is slowing down.

    It is notable that the UK is really pulling away from the US right now. Back at the end of April, the US pulled ahead of the UK for a day or two in terms of total doses adminstered. It's now well behind. Indeed, the US is almost exactly half way between the EU and the UK right now. On current trends, the UK will reach Israel levels at the end of July, while EU countries will catch up with the US at almost exactly the same time.
    US is tailing off, just as Israel did, with a lack of demand.
    U.K. will be ahead of Israel in a couple of weeks.
    The UK will certainly overtake Israel in July - the only question is when.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,150
    edited June 2021
    darkage said:

    FF43 said:

    kle4 said:

    FF43 said:

    I wonder if the Tories are making a mistake with their Anti-Woke Cancel Culture agenda. What's coming across in the vox pops in Chesham & Amersham is that erstwhile and potential Conservative Party voters don't think the party in its current version is nice. I don't imagine many of them would ever "take the knee", but do believe people do these things for good motives. In any case it's not up to them to control how people think.
    I think it's a sound tactic, but less is more - let the ridiculousness of things speak for themselves, then critique the sillier bits with a long suffering common sense kind of style which will chime well for a lot of people. Go too hard too often and it looks obsessive.
    I think the Anti-Woke thing is more than obsessive. It's divisive, unpleasant and in extreme cases, sinister.

    Thinking about my relative who lives in a leafy suburb of an English town, just retired on a good final salary pension, member of the National Trust etc. As un-Woke as you can get but she absolutely despises wokery (the people calling it out) because she thinks it's mean and disrespectful.
    I agree that people are getting frustrated with the war on woke, it has just become a fringe issue.
    What the tories perhaps actually need to do is to find a way of taking ownership of the term woke, perhaps by linking it to freedom of thought and individual liberty. Then declare the groups and movements we are currently describing as woke as a political extremists or a religious cult, preventing them from ever obtaining any public funding.
    I think the 'war on woke' is one of those things that is useful - as in eg encouraging university managements not to be idiots - but needs not to be a focus. Or foolish if you are woke about 'idiots' :smile:

    Quite how one stops the media *making* it a focus is the rub.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320

    malcolmg said:

    ClippP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting report from the ground in C&A:

    "If Peter Fleet’s campaign slogan had been “HS2, Where`s my Pitchfork?”, he would probably have won handily. Instead he followed the party line."

    https://capx.co/chesham-amersham-ignore-the-pundit-babble-and-focus-on-facts/

    We need to build rail capacity, and we need to build a million or two more houses.

    If those decisions cost a few seats in certain areas then so be it, they’re still the right decisions and are electorally popular elsewhere.

    The Lib Dem’s can’t call the Tories populist, while they remain in favour of increased immigration but limited building of houses and infrastructure.
    But only the Conservatives are in favour of handing all decisions about planning and development over to the large house-building companies.

    When I say "Conservatives" in this context, I mean the Johnson-Conservatives, not the traditional decent ones, who now vote Lib Dem.
    I am a traditional decent conservative but would never vote lib dem
    Why not?
    Because they are crap , neither liberal or democratic
    To be fair, that describes most political parties.
    True
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Phil said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Why can't I watch the football in 4k or even full HD on via iPlayer on my PC....not acceptable in 2021.

    Buy some better equipment?
    I have a very expensive telly, but i am working and high quality monitors and its ridiculous that iplayer only.pumps out 720p to pc.
    They’re downgrading computer streams, to stop people uploading pirate HD feeds?

    Or, paying the hosting fees for a couple of million 4k streams is too expensive?
    Presumably it's fairly trivial to work out the headers smart TVs send to the BBC, so as to get the 4k stream directly, so (like most anti piracy measures) it'll inconvenience legitimate users while not actually guarding against piracy at all.
    Licencing deals may require that streams greater than 720p only go via DRMed channels. Not impossible to crack, but not as simple as “send the right cookies, get 4k data back in the clear”.
    Fair point.

    Of course, given the requirement of backward compatibility, all those DRM-ed streams are using DRM from about a decade ago, and which was cracked before my son was born.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320

    ping said:

    Shellacking for Portugal

    4-1 Germany

    Germany to lift the cup?

    They'll have to get past England first...
    LOL, yes they have a bit to do to qualify, czechs will be no pushovers.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    rcs1000 said:

    ClippP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting report from the ground in C&A:

    "If Peter Fleet’s campaign slogan had been “HS2, Where`s my Pitchfork?”, he would probably have won handily. Instead he followed the party line."

    https://capx.co/chesham-amersham-ignore-the-pundit-babble-and-focus-on-facts/

    We need to build rail capacity, and we need to build a million or two more houses.

    If those decisions cost a few seats in certain areas then so be it, they’re still the right decisions and are electorally popular elsewhere.

    The Lib Dem’s can’t call the Tories populist, while they remain in favour of increased immigration but limited building of houses and infrastructure.
    But only the Conservatives are in favour of handing all decisions about planning and development over to the large house-building companies.

    When I say "Conservatives" in this context, I mean the Johnson-Conservatives, not the traditional decent ones, who now vote Lib Dem.
    I am a traditional decent conservative but would never vote lib dem
    I always find the "never" element odd.

    Parties change.

    In the US, who could have thought that it would be the party of segregation and Jim Crow that dominated African American voting, while the party of Lincoln enacted laws that seem designed to limit the ability of African Americans to vote?

    I am a free trader. I am socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I supported Brexit, because I think competition between countries is generally a good idea, and that smaller entities tend to be more nimble. I suspect that we should give more power to parents and local people, and reserve less for the central state. I think we should avoid foreign entanglements, but I have no issue with the UK giving foreign aid.

    From time to time, the party that best embodies those views (and which also appears competent and non-corrupt) is going to change.

    I support policies and process, not any particular party. It seems extraordinarily odd that one could pin one's identity and hopes and dreams to single label. No party has a monopoly on competence or good ideas or honesty. And we do the democratic process a great disservice by choosing by label.


    I totally agree with is. Although I am voting labour at a general election level at a local level I’d vote for parties as diverse as the Tories to the greens. Whoever would do the best for where I lived. Last time out I voted Tory and Indy, before I have voted labour and Lib Dem for the council. I just can’t see the point in tribalism when it comes to who manages local services
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320
    ping said:

    Shellacking for Portugal

    4-1 Germany

    Germany to lift the cup?

    Hope so I have them to win
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    rcs1000 said:

    ClippP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting report from the ground in C&A:

    "If Peter Fleet’s campaign slogan had been “HS2, Where`s my Pitchfork?”, he would probably have won handily. Instead he followed the party line."

    https://capx.co/chesham-amersham-ignore-the-pundit-babble-and-focus-on-facts/

    We need to build rail capacity, and we need to build a million or two more houses.

    If those decisions cost a few seats in certain areas then so be it, they’re still the right decisions and are electorally popular elsewhere.

    The Lib Dem’s can’t call the Tories populist, while they remain in favour of increased immigration but limited building of houses and infrastructure.
    But only the Conservatives are in favour of handing all decisions about planning and development over to the large house-building companies.

    When I say "Conservatives" in this context, I mean the Johnson-Conservatives, not the traditional decent ones, who now vote Lib Dem.
    I am a traditional decent conservative but would never vote lib dem
    I always find the "never" element odd.

    Parties change.

    In the US, who could have thought that it would be the party of segregation and Jim Crow that dominated African American voting, while the party of Lincoln enacted laws that seem designed to limit the ability of African Americans to vote?

    I am a free trader. I am socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I supported Brexit, because I think competition between countries is generally a good idea, and that smaller entities tend to be more nimble. I suspect that we should give more power to parents and local people, and reserve less for the central state. I think we should avoid foreign entanglements, but I have no issue with the UK giving foreign aid.

    From time to time, the party that best embodies those views (and which also appears competent and non-corrupt) is going to change.

    I support policies and process, not any particular party. It seems extraordinarily odd that one could pin one's identity and hopes and dreams to single label. No party has a monopoly on competence or good ideas or honesty. And we do the democratic process a great disservice by choosing by label.
    I think "never" is used in the same way as "literally" nowadays. Nothing to do with never or literally, purely for emphasis?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,386

    rcs1000 said:

    ClippP said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting report from the ground in C&A:

    "If Peter Fleet’s campaign slogan had been “HS2, Where`s my Pitchfork?”, he would probably have won handily. Instead he followed the party line."

    https://capx.co/chesham-amersham-ignore-the-pundit-babble-and-focus-on-facts/

    We need to build rail capacity, and we need to build a million or two more houses.

    If those decisions cost a few seats in certain areas then so be it, they’re still the right decisions and are electorally popular elsewhere.

    The Lib Dem’s can’t call the Tories populist, while they remain in favour of increased immigration but limited building of houses and infrastructure.
    But only the Conservatives are in favour of handing all decisions about planning and development over to the large house-building companies.

    When I say "Conservatives" in this context, I mean the Johnson-Conservatives, not the traditional decent ones, who now vote Lib Dem.
    I am a traditional decent conservative but would never vote lib dem
    I always find the "never" element odd.

    Parties change.

    In the US, who could have thought that it would be the party of segregation and Jim Crow that dominated African American voting, while the party of Lincoln enacted laws that seem designed to limit the ability of African Americans to vote?

    I am a free trader. I am socially liberal and fiscally conservative. I supported Brexit, because I think competition between countries is generally a good idea, and that smaller entities tend to be more nimble. I suspect that we should give more power to parents and local people, and reserve less for the central state. I think we should avoid foreign entanglements, but I have no issue with the UK giving foreign aid.

    From time to time, the party that best embodies those views (and which also appears competent and non-corrupt) is going to change.

    I support policies and process, not any particular party. It seems extraordinarily odd that one could pin one's identity and hopes and dreams to single label. No party has a monopoly on competence or good ideas or honesty. And we do the democratic process a great disservice by choosing by label.
    I think "never" is used in the same way as "literally" nowadays. Nothing to do with never or literally, purely for emphasis?
    Of Jim Hacker, it was famously said he had his own non-literal meaning of the word ‘literal.’
This discussion has been closed.