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The widespread notion that LAB can automatically assume 2nd prefs of LDs is not supported by real li

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  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rcs1000 said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    You asked about Delta in Europe.

    Well, it's there too. But there's a quantitive difference in the size of the Indian diaspora in European countries compared to the UK.

    If you look at the Wikipedia numbers, there isn't a single EU country in the top 25 nations by size of Indian ethnic origin.

    So, my guess is that EU countries maybe had one tenth of the number of Delta cases seeded, which means that it's growing from a lower base. It effectively give them a six week headstart over us.

    That's assuming they don't get it from us or anyone else I'm assuming?

    That doesn't seem like a safe assumption if it is all over the world by now.
  • Did the commentator just say the England players double teamed the Scotland player?

    :blush:

    A reference to another form of football (American), obviously. What else could you possibly be thinking of? ;)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,869
    edited June 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    You asked about Delta in Europe.

    Well, it's there too. But there's a quantitive difference in the size of the Indian diaspora in European countries compared to the UK.

    If you look at the Wikipedia numbers, there isn't a single EU country in the top 25 nations by size of Indian ethnic origin.

    So, my guess is that EU countries maybe had one tenth of the number of Delta cases seeded, which means that it's growing from a lower base. It effectively give them a six week headstart over us.

    It's rampant in Moscow, which has signifiant links with all major European cities, so they may not be as far behind as that.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,656
    edited June 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    You asked about Delta in Europe.

    Well, it's there too. But there's a quantitive difference in the size of the Indian diaspora in European countries compared to the UK.

    If you look at the Wikipedia numbers, there isn't a single EU country in the top 25 nations by size of Indian ethnic origin.

    So, my guess is that EU countries maybe had one tenth of the number of Delta cases seeded, which means that it's growing from a lower base. It effectively give them a six week headstart over us.

    That only helps if they're vaccinate up to the same level.

    If they max out the vaccinations at a lower level and there's countries in Eastern Europe where that has already happened ...

    The outlier is Portugal - Delta was seeded there (Goa connection perhaps ?) almost as much as in the UK.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    Andy_JS said:

    Don't want to boast but I'd bet £20 on the LDs at 17/1 a couple of days ago.

    That very much sounds like a boast.

    I am happy to teach you how to be modest as my own modesty is legendary.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423
    Pickford. No problem.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    Andy_JS said:

    Don't want to boast but I'd bet £20 on the LDs at 17/1 a couple of days ago.

    That very much sounds like a boast.

    I am happy to teach you how to be modest as my own modesty is legendary.
    Not so much legendary as mythical…
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,957
    Scotland almost score!
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,957
    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    ClippP said:

    ClippP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ClippP said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?

    It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
    Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.

    Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
    No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.

    Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
    Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
    Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
    Except that in the UK, when the party in power has tried to get rid of FPTP via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their FPTP system. The British people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper FPTP system gives them power over the politicians.
    Get rid of FPTP and introducing PR are two quite different things, Mr Thompson. Conservatives always do their best to confuse people - and in your case they seem to have succeeded.

    When we last had a referendum, it was to introduce the AV system -- not to support or otherwise FPTP. And AV has nothing at all to do with PR.

    In fact, at the time of the referendum, the line from the Conservative Party was "If you really want PR, vote now against AV, and we will introduce PR at a later date." Surely you remember that?
    The NZ referendum had two questions, the first whether to replace FPTP, and the second to choose between 4 options.

    Not that a referendum would be required if a FPTP government was implementing a manifesto commitment.
    A precedent was set by the 2011 referendum though.
    I would have voted AGAINST FPTP if PR had been on offer :)
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Thread on the PHE report

    This 71-page report is rich. And that 60% of infections are getting sequenced (91% are Delta) is quite impressive.
    It makes the output from CDC and the genomic surveillance in the US particularly weak


    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1405898386880876549?s=20
  • Kane having a poor game. Get DCL on
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,240
    Kane doesn't have all that much pace does he ?
    Foden the pick of the England forwards so far.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    Pulpstar said:

    Kane doesn't have all that much pace does he ?
    Foden the pick of the England forwards so far.

    Kane isn't going full pelt, he's protecting himself so he doesn't get injured before his big move to Citeh.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768

    Kane having a poor game. Get DCL on

    Much rather have Jack Grealish on first.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021
    Scotland playing well

    @Stocky ’s 1-0 tip @26 was a decent value bet
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820
    ping said:

    Scotland playing well

    Controlling the midfield.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,478
    What are England doing?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423
    This has 1-0 Scotland written all over it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299

    rcs1000 said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    You asked about Delta in Europe.

    Well, it's there too. But there's a quantitive difference in the size of the Indian diaspora in European countries compared to the UK.

    If you look at the Wikipedia numbers, there isn't a single EU country in the top 25 nations by size of Indian ethnic origin.

    So, my guess is that EU countries maybe had one tenth of the number of Delta cases seeded, which means that it's growing from a lower base. It effectively give them a six week headstart over us.

    That's assuming they don't get it from us or anyone else I'm assuming?

    That doesn't seem like a safe assumption if it is all over the world by now.
    Oh, I'm agreeing that they've got it, and that it will completely dominate their cases in - ohhh... - about three weeks.

    But they were lucky that they probably had one tenth of the number of initial cases imported than we did.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820

    What are England doing?

    Sterling and Kane not turning up.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    dixiedean said:

    This has 1-0 Scotland written all over it.

    Tipped by @Stocky @ 25/1

    Available at 29/1 pre KO
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,514
    Rubbish England devoid of ideas. Scotland look more vibrant.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    Foxy said:

    ping said:

    Scotland playing well

    Controlling the midfield.
    Gilmour looks a real talent.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,267

    What are England doing?

    Nothing
  • Simon_PeachSimon_Peach Posts: 424
    edited June 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    Kane doesn't have all that much pace does he ?
    Foden the pick of the England forwards so far.

    Kane isn't going full pelt, he's protecting himself so he doesn't get injured before his big move to Citeh.
    One assumes that Pep won’t be asking Sterling or Foden for their opinion first…
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,656
    TOPPING said:

    I'm going 3-0 England.

    I've bet on Scotland and the Draw.
    I can cash out now at a 25% profit on my stake but I think I'll let it ride for a potential 350% -1000% return (draw and Scotland)
  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    edited June 2021
    A big belated congratulation to Our Genial Host and to other LDs here---Dr. Foxy et al---on the C&A outcome, especially from a political standpoint. Huzzah.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,878
    rcs1000 said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?

    It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
    If the Liberal Democrats (I assume you meant them rather than the actual still somehow existing Liberal party) won a majority and then renegaded on the biggest thing they've been campaigning for for the last sixty years, I'd never vote for them again.
    I have good news for you: I think it is unlikely that the LDs will outright win a General Election and then fail to implement Proportional Representation.

    I'm happy to offer you some good odds if you like.
    Thank you but no. I don't gamble............
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,957
    Remember - it was 0-0 at half-time back in 1996 :lol:
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,267
    Foxy said:

    What are England doing?

    Sterling and Kane not turning up.
    The team largely fits that description

    Scotland the better team in the first half
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423
    ping said:

    dixiedean said:

    This has 1-0 Scotland written all over it.

    Tipped by @Stocky @ 25/1

    Available at 29/1 pre KO
    Now 13-1. Mmm.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Not remotely an expert but they seem pretty evenly matched. “England walkover” this isn’t remotely.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299
    edited June 2021

    rcs1000 said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    You asked about Delta in Europe.

    Well, it's there too. But there's a quantitive difference in the size of the Indian diaspora in European countries compared to the UK.

    If you look at the Wikipedia numbers, there isn't a single EU country in the top 25 nations by size of Indian ethnic origin.

    So, my guess is that EU countries maybe had one tenth of the number of Delta cases seeded, which means that it's growing from a lower base. It effectively give them a six week headstart over us.

    It's rampant in Moscow, which has signifiant links with all major European cities, so they may not be as far behind as that.
    We know almost exactly how far the EU is behind us, because on Weds there was the data from EU countries on percentage by variant - and was posted on this board.

    Now, they don't sequence as much as us, and the data is inherently backward looking. *But* Delta was 5-20% of cases depending on the country, with Sweden in the lead. That probably means they're 2-3 weeks away from it being the dominant variant. Which is about 6 weeks behind us.

    (They do benefit from not having dense towns full of people from the Indian subcontinent, of course. So one would expect a slightly slower initial growth than we had.)
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    This is the second game Kane has been totally absent
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,560

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    ClippP said:

    ClippP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ClippP said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?

    It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
    Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.

    Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
    No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.

    Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
    Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
    Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
    Except that in the UK, when the party in power has tried to get rid of FPTP via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their FPTP system. The British people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper FPTP system gives them power over the politicians.
    Get rid of FPTP and introducing PR are two quite different things, Mr Thompson. Conservatives always do their best to confuse people - and in your case they seem to have succeeded.

    When we last had a referendum, it was to introduce the AV system -- not to support or otherwise FPTP. And AV has nothing at all to do with PR.

    In fact, at the time of the referendum, the line from the Conservative Party was "If you really want PR, vote now against AV, and we will introduce PR at a later date." Surely you remember that?
    The NZ referendum had two questions, the first whether to replace FPTP, and the second to choose between 4 options.

    Not that a referendum would be required if a FPTP government was implementing a manifesto commitment.
    A precedent was set by the 2011 referendum though.
    I would have voted AGAINST FPTP if PR had been on offer :)
    Same here. What was offered was potentially less proportional, nah.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299

    rcs1000 said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    You asked about Delta in Europe.

    Well, it's there too. But there's a quantitive difference in the size of the Indian diaspora in European countries compared to the UK.

    If you look at the Wikipedia numbers, there isn't a single EU country in the top 25 nations by size of Indian ethnic origin.

    So, my guess is that EU countries maybe had one tenth of the number of Delta cases seeded, which means that it's growing from a lower base. It effectively give them a six week headstart over us.

    That only helps if they're vaccinate up to the same level.

    If they max out the vaccinations at a lower level and there's countries in Eastern Europe where that has already happened ...

    The outlier is Portugal - Delta was seeded there (Goa connection perhaps ?) almost as much as in the UK.
    Sure, but Delta will also tend to encourage vaccinations :smile:
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,560
    Get Jude Bellingham on.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    You asked about Delta in Europe.

    Well, it's there too. But there's a quantitive difference in the size of the Indian diaspora in European countries compared to the UK.

    If you look at the Wikipedia numbers, there isn't a single EU country in the top 25 nations by size of Indian ethnic origin.

    So, my guess is that EU countries maybe had one tenth of the number of Delta cases seeded, which means that it's growing from a lower base. It effectively give them a six week headstart over us.

    It's rampant in Moscow, which has signifiant links with all major European cities, so they may not be as far behind as that.
    We know almost exactly how far the EU is behind us, because on Weds there was the data from EU countries on percentage by variant - and was posted on this board.

    Now, they don't sequence as much as us, and the data is inherently backward looking. *But* Delta was 5-20% of cases depending on the country, with Sweden in the lead. That probably means they're 2-3 weeks away from it being the dominant variant. Which is about 6 weeks behind us.

    (They do benefit from not having dense towns full of people from the Indian subcontinent, of course. So one would expect a slightly slower initial growth than we had.)
    People are talking enough about the complete lack of third wave deaths in Sweden.

    Truly amazing.

    Or the hacking attempt of their computer systems.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,866
    England would have a much better chance if Alexander-Arnold Gomez and Henderson were fit. I know I'm biased.

    Should bring Henderson and Grealish on to provide some purpose.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    What are England doing?

    Losing at this rate. All things being equal, especially after disposing of Croatia, England ought to be beating Scotland. However, one should never, ever underestimate the ability of any English sporting side to make a complete dog's breakfast of it.

    Again, there is a reason why the England football team have only won a single major tournament in their entire history, and have never made the final of any of the others. Forget what the crackpot FIFA rankings keep saying about them: they're not the 4th best side in the world. They don't even belong in the top ten.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820

    This is the second game Kane has been totally absent

    He's not going to be dropped though.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Foxy said:

    This is the second game Kane has been totally absent

    He's not going to be dropped though.
    The Golden Boot winner who also provided most assists last season?

    I used to argue with my old boss about Kane, he has been saying he was over rated for about five seasons. But I cant really say I agree
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,656
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    You asked about Delta in Europe.

    Well, it's there too. But there's a quantitive difference in the size of the Indian diaspora in European countries compared to the UK.

    If you look at the Wikipedia numbers, there isn't a single EU country in the top 25 nations by size of Indian ethnic origin.

    So, my guess is that EU countries maybe had one tenth of the number of Delta cases seeded, which means that it's growing from a lower base. It effectively give them a six week headstart over us.

    That only helps if they're vaccinate up to the same level.

    If they max out the vaccinations at a lower level and there's countries in Eastern Europe where that has already happened ...

    The outlier is Portugal - Delta was seeded there (Goa connection perhaps ?) almost as much as in the UK.
    Sure, but Delta will also tend to encourage vaccinations :smile:
    Possibly and possibly not.

    But even if so it will only have a marginal effect.

    And if it leads to an increase from 85% to 86% that's useful, a 60% to 61% increase is less so and a 20% to 21% increase is almost worthless.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    Let’s hope for better in the 2nd half.

    England don’t look like tournament winners.
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337
    Christ, Robert Smith looks embarrassed.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820
    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    This is the second game Kane has been totally absent

    He's not going to be dropped though.
    The Golden Boot winner who also provided most assists last season?

    I used to argue with my old boss about Kane, he has been saying he was over rated for about five seasons. But I cant really say I agree
    That was playing for a different team.

    Mind you I have seen him look very anonymous for Spurs, then score from nothing.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,656
    edited June 2021
    Scotland 9.2 to win - seems generous.

    Edit: Now 9.8 to win.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2021
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    This is the second game Kane has been totally absent

    He's not going to be dropped though.
    The Golden Boot winner who also provided most assists last season?

    I used to argue with my old boss about Kane, he has been saying he was over rated for about five seasons. But I cant really say I agree
    That was playing for a different team.

    Mind you I have seen him look very anonymous for Spurs, then score from nothing.
    He is an all time great. To sub him tactically, when we are not winning, in a game of this magnitude, would be ballsy beyond belief/sackable offence
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,560
    isam said:

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

    Is the other chap Stuart Adamson, ex skids.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820
    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    This is the second game Kane has been totally absent

    He's not going to be dropped though.
    The Golden Boot winner who also provided most assists last season?

    I used to argue with my old boss about Kane, he has been saying he was over rated for about five seasons. But I cant really say I agree
    That was playing for a different team.

    Mind you I have seen him look very anonymous for Spurs, then score from nothing.
    He is an all time great. To sub him tactically, when we are not winning, in a game of this magnitude, would be ballsy beyond belief/sackable offence
    Yes, which is why I said he wouldn't be dropped.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Alistair said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    You asked about Delta in Europe.

    Well, it's there too. But there's a quantitive difference in the size of the Indian diaspora in European countries compared to the UK.

    If you look at the Wikipedia numbers, there isn't a single EU country in the top 25 nations by size of Indian ethnic origin.

    So, my guess is that EU countries maybe had one tenth of the number of Delta cases seeded, which means that it's growing from a lower base. It effectively give them a six week headstart over us.

    It's rampant in Moscow, which has signifiant links with all major European cities, so they may not be as far behind as that.
    We know almost exactly how far the EU is behind us, because on Weds there was the data from EU countries on percentage by variant - and was posted on this board.

    Now, they don't sequence as much as us, and the data is inherently backward looking. *But* Delta was 5-20% of cases depending on the country, with Sweden in the lead. That probably means they're 2-3 weeks away from it being the dominant variant. Which is about 6 weeks behind us.

    (They do benefit from not having dense towns full of people from the Indian subcontinent, of course. So one would expect a slightly slower initial growth than we had.)
    People are talking enough about the complete lack of third wave deaths in Sweden.

    Truly amazing.

    Or the hacking attempt of their computer systems.
    "Are NOT talking enough"

    Damn it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    You asked about Delta in Europe.

    Well, it's there too. But there's a quantitive difference in the size of the Indian diaspora in European countries compared to the UK.

    If you look at the Wikipedia numbers, there isn't a single EU country in the top 25 nations by size of Indian ethnic origin.

    So, my guess is that EU countries maybe had one tenth of the number of Delta cases seeded, which means that it's growing from a lower base. It effectively give them a six week headstart over us.

    It's rampant in Moscow, which has signifiant links with all major European cities, so they may not be as far behind as that.
    We know almost exactly how far the EU is behind us, because on Weds there was the data from EU countries on percentage by variant - and was posted on this board.
    How up to date is the EU data?

    For example the PHE data published today was 4 days old. In contrast, the CDC data is 2 weeks old.

    The UK is not only sequencing at high volume, it’s also sequencing at high speed.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2021
    Taz said:

    isam said:

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 image

    Is the other chap Stuart Adamson, ex skids.
    Yes, tragic case. I know him as ex Big Country

    "I'm not expecting to grow flowers in the desert,
    But I can live and breathe and see the sun in wintertime"
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    edited June 2021
    ping said:

    Let’s hope for better in the 2nd half.

    England don’t look like tournament winners.

    I believe that, if England somehow contrive still to win this group, their reward is a tie against the second placed side from the Group of Death.

    I wouldn't back this lot against either Germany or Portugal Cristiano Ronaldo. There's every chance that Wales will outdistance England for the second European Championship on the bounce.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,692
    Wish I'd bet on no goals in this game.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299
    I'm trying to understand this football thing. Is it actually in the rules that every other pass needs to be back to the defenders in your own half?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820
    Grealish on please. We need someone positive on the ball.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,240
    England -1.5 looking a ropey bet right now.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,903
    Needs pointing out again that England are on ITV. Disappointment nailed on.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    You asked about Delta in Europe.

    Well, it's there too. But there's a quantitive difference in the size of the Indian diaspora in European countries compared to the UK.

    If you look at the Wikipedia numbers, there isn't a single EU country in the top 25 nations by size of Indian ethnic origin.

    So, my guess is that EU countries maybe had one tenth of the number of Delta cases seeded, which means that it's growing from a lower base. It effectively give them a six week headstart over us.

    It's rampant in Moscow, which has signifiant links with all major European cities, so they may not be as far behind as that.
    We know almost exactly how far the EU is behind us, because on Weds there was the data from EU countries on percentage by variant - and was posted on this board.
    How up to date is the EU data?

    For example the PHE data published today was 4 days old. In contrast, the CDC data is 2 weeks old.

    The UK is not only sequencing at high volume, it’s also sequencing at high speed.
    We can assume - reasonably - that Delta is behind in the EU, because otherwise EU countries would be seeing the same growth in cases we are.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,503
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm trying to understand this football thing. Is it actually in the rules that every other pass needs to be back to the defenders in your own half?

    The aim is not to overexcite the spectators.
    Doing pretty well so far.
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270
    Scotland are working so hard, can they keep this going until FT?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm trying to understand this football thing. Is it actually in the rules that every other pass needs to be back to the defenders in your own half?

    Yes, it's like rugby, no passing forward.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,878
    rcs1000 said:

    I'm trying to understand this football thing. Is it actually in the rules that every other pass needs to be back to the defenders in your own half?

    My wife asked the same. "Why are England constantly trying to beat our own goalie?" she asked.
    We're shocking. Lucky to get a draw......
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,320
    edited June 2021

    RobD said:

    Foxy said:

    ClippP said:

    ClippP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ClippP said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?

    It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
    Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.

    Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
    No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.

    Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
    Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
    Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
    Except that in the UK, when the party in power has tried to get rid of FPTP via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their FPTP system. The British people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper FPTP system gives them power over the politicians.
    Get rid of FPTP and introducing PR are two quite different things, Mr Thompson. Conservatives always do their best to confuse people - and in your case they seem to have succeeded.

    When we last had a referendum, it was to introduce the AV system -- not to support or otherwise FPTP. And AV has nothing at all to do with PR.

    In fact, at the time of the referendum, the line from the Conservative Party was "If you really want PR, vote now against AV, and we will introduce PR at a later date." Surely you remember that?
    The NZ referendum had two questions, the first whether to replace FPTP, and the second to choose between 4 options.

    Not that a referendum would be required if a FPTP government was implementing a manifesto commitment.
    A precedent was set by the 2011 referendum though.
    I would have voted AGAINST FPTP if PR had been on offer :)
    Anything would be better than FPTP; this insistence on voting perfectionism prevents any progress being made a all. We had a once in a generation opportunity to shift the dial a little in the right direction & one of the reasons we (as a population) blew it was because of that segment who refused to vote for AV because it wasn’t PR.

    /Obviously/ it wasn’t PR: It was still a sight better than FPTP, but that wasn’t enough. Sigh.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,240
    edited June 2021
    jonny83 said:

    Scotland are working so hard, can they keep this going until FT?

    They ought to be able to, they're professional athletes in their 20s.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299
    Why are they taking Foden off? He seemed to be the best of the English players.
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,718
    This is tense.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820
    rcs1000 said:

    Why are they taking Foden off? He seemed to be the best of the English players.

    He fades second half, but I would take off Sterling too.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    Cookie said:

    Needs pointing out again that England are on ITV. Disappointment nailed on.

    They are on ITV again on Tuesday.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423
    Mount's corners are poor.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905
    Cookie said:

    Needs pointing out again that England are on ITV. Disappointment nailed on.

    I was so convinced that this would be painful that I didn't even start watching it. I'm clothes shopping instead. Well, browsing really. I already spent a mint earlier in the week but I want more. But I shouldn't. Not really.

    But anyway, that torment isn't nearly so agonising as watching England try to play football. I'm reliant mainly on you lot to convey the depths of the misery.
  • Southgate is a total buffoon
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,303

    Cookie said:

    Needs pointing out again that England are on ITV. Disappointment nailed on.

    They are on ITV again on Tuesday.
    Damn those repeats.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    About those Southern States....

    https://twitter.com/lookner/status/1405981855631937539

    COVID outbreak in Manatee County, Florida government kills two IT staffers, hospitalizes three others. "The only staffer in the department who didn’t contract the coronavirus was vaccinated."
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423

    rcs1000 said:

    I'm trying to understand this football thing. Is it actually in the rules that every other pass needs to be back to the defenders in your own half?

    My wife asked the same. "Why are England constantly trying to beat our own goalie?" she asked.
    We're shocking. Lucky to get a draw......
    Tbf he's the only one who looks like making an accurate forward pass.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820
    Floater said:

    About those Southern States....

    https://twitter.com/lookner/status/1405981855631937539

    COVID outbreak in Manatee County, Florida government kills two IT staffers, hospitalizes three others. "The only staffer in the department who didn’t contract the coronavirus was vaccinated."

    What an extraordinary coincidence...
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    isam said:

    Foxy said:

    This is the second game Kane has been totally absent

    He's not going to be dropped though.
    The Golden Boot winner who also provided most assists last season?

    I used to argue with my old boss about Kane, he has been saying he was over rated for about five seasons. But I cant really say I agree
    That was playing for a different team.

    Mind you I have seen him look very anonymous for Spurs, then score from nothing.
    He is an all time great. To sub him tactically, when we are not winning, in a game of this magnitude, would be ballsy beyond belief/sackable offence
    Yes, which is why I said he wouldn't be dropped.
    Sorry, I thought you were kind of having a dig at Southgate
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,910

    ClippP said:

    ClippP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ClippP said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?

    It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
    Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.

    Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
    No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.

    Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
    Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
    Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
    Except that in the UK, when the party in power has tried to get rid of FPTP via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their FPTP system. The British people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper FPTP system gives them power over the politicians.
    Get rid of FPTP and introducing PR are two quite different things, Mr Thompson. Conservatives always do their best to confuse people - and in your case they seem to have succeeded.

    When we last had a referendum, it was to introduce the AV system -- not to support or otherwise FPTP. And AV has nothing at all to do with PR.

    In fact, at the time of the referendum, the line from the Conservative Party was "If you really want PR, vote now against AV, and we will introduce PR at a later date." Surely you remember that?
    No I don't remember that. I'd love you to quote anything official from the Conservative Party saying they'd introduce PR, because I'm pretty sure that's not the case.
    You know full well that the Conservative Party says whatever is needed in order to win an election. Our PB Tories keep telling us that. In official documents they say one thing, and in the media their candidates and MPs will say something quite different. I think they call this "messaging". The aim, in this case, was to persuade Lib Dem voters not to support AV. I felt very tempted. But, of course, you cannot trust the Tories.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    You asked about Delta in Europe.

    Well, it's there too. But there's a quantitive difference in the size of the Indian diaspora in European countries compared to the UK.

    If you look at the Wikipedia numbers, there isn't a single EU country in the top 25 nations by size of Indian ethnic origin.

    So, my guess is that EU countries maybe had one tenth of the number of Delta cases seeded, which means that it's growing from a lower base. It effectively give them a six week headstart over us.

    It's rampant in Moscow, which has signifiant links with all major European cities, so they may not be as far behind as that.
    We know almost exactly how far the EU is behind us, because on Weds there was the data from EU countries on percentage by variant - and was posted on this board.
    How up to date is the EU data?

    For example the PHE data published today was 4 days old. In contrast, the CDC data is 2 weeks old.

    The UK is not only sequencing at high volume, it’s also sequencing at high speed.
    We can assume - reasonably - that Delta is behind in the EU, because otherwise EU countries would be seeing the same growth in cases we are.
    Quite a few EU positivity rates are well above the UK’s - so how up to speed they are on cases, time will tell.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Kane off!! Wowzers
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,423
    Kane off. No DCL?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,299

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    @Big_G_NorthWales

    You asked about Delta in Europe.

    Well, it's there too. But there's a quantitive difference in the size of the Indian diaspora in European countries compared to the UK.

    If you look at the Wikipedia numbers, there isn't a single EU country in the top 25 nations by size of Indian ethnic origin.

    So, my guess is that EU countries maybe had one tenth of the number of Delta cases seeded, which means that it's growing from a lower base. It effectively give them a six week headstart over us.

    It's rampant in Moscow, which has signifiant links with all major European cities, so they may not be as far behind as that.
    We know almost exactly how far the EU is behind us, because on Weds there was the data from EU countries on percentage by variant - and was posted on this board.
    How up to date is the EU data?

    For example the PHE data published today was 4 days old. In contrast, the CDC data is 2 weeks old.

    The UK is not only sequencing at high volume, it’s also sequencing at high speed.
    We can assume - reasonably - that Delta is behind in the EU, because otherwise EU countries would be seeing the same growth in cases we are.
    Quite a few EU positivity rates are well above the UK’s - so how up to speed they are on cases, time will tell.
    Sure: but given the number being tested is relatively constant, then we should be able to see relative moves in case numbers. And right now we haven't see it.

    My point is not a complicated one. The EU countries will get hit. They haven't gotten hit as badly as us yet, because they had far less seeding from India (due to a much smaller Indian diaspora).

    I don't think this is a particularly controversial point.
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337
    edited June 2021
    ClippP said:

    ClippP said:

    ClippP said:

    Pagan2 said:

    ClippP said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?

    It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
    Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.

    Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
    No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.

    Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
    Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
    Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
    Except that in the UK, when the party in power has tried to get rid of FPTP via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their FPTP system. The British people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper FPTP system gives them power over the politicians.
    Get rid of FPTP and introducing PR are two quite different things, Mr Thompson. Conservatives always do their best to confuse people - and in your case they seem to have succeeded.

    When we last had a referendum, it was to introduce the AV system -- not to support or otherwise FPTP. And AV has nothing at all to do with PR.

    In fact, at the time of the referendum, the line from the Conservative Party was "If you really want PR, vote now against AV, and we will introduce PR at a later date." Surely you remember that?
    No I don't remember that. I'd love you to quote anything official from the Conservative Party saying they'd introduce PR, because I'm pretty sure that's not the case.
    You know full well that the Conservative Party says whatever is needed in order to win an election. Our PB Tories keep telling us that. In official documents they say one thing, and in the media their candidates and MPs will say something quite different. I think they call this "messaging". The aim, in this case, was to persuade Lib Dem voters not to support AV. I felt very tempted. But, of course, you cannot trust the Tories.
    Looking forward to reading your further analysis on Ireland. It’s always refreshing to see an idiot , who can do nothing but whine, speak.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820
    isam said:

    Kane off!! Wowzers

    Yes, indeed, but justified by his lack of performance.
  • dixiedean said:

    Kane off. No DCL?

    The man is a berk
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    Watched the last 10 mins of this and scotland have done fuck all.
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337
    Foxy said:

    Floater said:

    About those Southern States....

    https://twitter.com/lookner/status/1405981855631937539

    COVID outbreak in Manatee County, Florida government kills two IT staffers, hospitalizes three others. "The only staffer in the department who didn’t contract the coronavirus was vaccinated."

    What an extraordinary coincidence...
    “Lived experience”. The excuse of the stupid.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    He fucking skyed it.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820
    Alistair said:

    Watched the last 10 mins of this and scotland have done fuck all.

    A draw isn't good enough for the Scots.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,692
    Scotland should have won there with Adams.
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    That was a pen.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,820
    edited June 2021
    Duplicates
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,692
    Penalty?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    wow - a bit of a street fight in Dublin

    https://twitter.com/Holbornlolz

  • TomsToms Posts: 2,478
    Understandably people seem to be focused on the covid hospitalization rate and the consequent "long covid" rate. Do many vaccinated people who suffer the virus also get long covid?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,768
    This is why I hate VAR.

    That was more of a penalty than the one VAR awarded against Robertson in the Brighton match earlier on this season.
This discussion has been closed.