If Lab, Lib Dems and Greens were to divvy up which seats they stood in, they would need to pay careful attention to some history and some demography. They wouldn't do it at random. Not of course that they'll actually do it, what with Labour Rule Book requiring them to put up a candidate in every seat.
Someone said upthread about the pox at unis. As I said yesterday, niece and nephew both confirm it is rampant at Durham.
Would explain the MASSIVE rise in cases in the North East
Of course we are all interested to know about how this translates into hospitalisations and death.
But I would have thought that if these increase the press will be all over it. Given the demographic in sure there will be plenty of high powered interest in the stats.
Just checked, over a quarter of all Covid cases in the North East are in Country Durham.
Bloody Geordies
Are all the cases within a stone's throw of Durham uni by any chance?
On topic, the approach to the LDs depends on who poses the question. If your world view is that its either a Tory or Labour government so choose good or evil, then yes its a shock if the LDs have their own mind. I confess to once having held a similar view.
What is interesting about C&A is what it now says about the LibDems in terms of rehabilitation. Its clear Labour voters almost entirely switched to us, so the "you're yellow Tories" jibe must be fading as is a swathe of seats in 2019 a wee bit of Lab > LD switching would have removed a stack of Tory MPs.
If that is sustained then yes various shire Tories including the former PM should be worried. I don't know where Labour go from here and until someone grows a pair and purges the hard left I don't care. We need a threat to the Tory hold in England, and yesterday we had the first sign of that emerging. Just a pity that I held my "don't bet" line and put the £20 I was sorely tempted to on us to win
To be serious, for a moment, I wonder if the EU’s behaviour over this ruling is likely to further encourage those compelled to do business with them to sign contracts in other jurisdictions.
Will a pharma company sign contracts under Belgian law if they get this level of abuse even when they win the case?
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
Tell them not to invite 20000 Scots then.
Seriously it must be distressing for them though. Sorry for you and them.
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
Because there is nobody mad enough to take on 20,000 Scots.
Comparing 2019 GE to yesterday’s By Election, I think the obvious is the most likely - Cons stayed at home and the rest got behind the Lib Dems. The difference between drop in turnout and drop in Conservative vote is very similar, too similar not to be the most likely cause for the result
PBers who made a killing on OGH's C&A tip - IF you possess an iota of moral fiber in your personal woof and warf, then please give MOST GENEROUSLY to the Fund for Indigent Punters, Under-employed Psephologists and Other Undeserving PBers.
Kindly remit your cashiers checks and other readily-negotiable instruments to:
To be serious, for a moment, I wonder if the EU’s behaviour over this ruling is likely to further encourage those compelled to do business with them to sign contracts in other jurisdictions.
Will a pharma company sign contracts under Belgian law if they get this level of abuse even when they win the case?
Yes, it will damage the EU's reputation.
On the other hand, the Belgian Court behaved sensibly, so it probably has less of an impact than if they'd ruled for the Commission.
Classico to celebrate the C&A result. Am i allowed to do so as a Con party member? Well i think so as I voted for Hunt. Anyway as the only Con member on here I think who predicted the C&A result correctly and made a decent bet accordingly I am very interested in the Batley & Spen one. Now my point is this. 1. There are easily enough former Labour voters to abandon them to give a Con victory, though not as many as Hartlepool because the candidate is Jo's sister. 2. But there are easily enough Con voters who will abandon them due to the lockdown extension / home schooling fiasco to enable Labour to keep this seat. 3. But then there are the Heavy Woollens, who i suppose are a Yorkshire-lite version of UKIP. Would their voters break so heavily Con to enable us to keep the seat? I think not and expect we will lose it by 2000.
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
Tell them not to invite 20000 Scots then.
Seriously it must be distressing for them though. Sorry for you and them.
We have invited some of our Scots family and just hope this stupid behaviour and their return to Scotland, which already has problems, does not see Sturgeon as she loves to do close the Scottish border, as we all know with her any excuse will do !!!!
To be serious, for a moment, I wonder if the EU’s behaviour over this ruling is likely to further encourage those compelled to do business with them to sign contracts in other jurisdictions.
Will a pharma company sign contracts under Belgian law if they get this level of abuse even when they win the case?
Yes, it will damage the EU's reputation.
On the other hand, the Belgian Court behaved sensibly, so it probably has less of an impact than if they'd ruled for the Commission.
Just to add, the EU knew, I'm sure, that it never had a case. This was deflection all along, to try and hide from the fact they fucked up vaccine procurement.
Ultimately, the Commission signs very few contracts. And it will, I'm sure, continue to insist on them being adjudicated in an EU country. So I'm not sure (from a legal contracts point of view) this has many consequences.
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
It is crazy to permit the scenes that we have seen in London, yet Fox jr2 can only fill a third of his theatre for his first commercial London production, opening in July.
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
If the Liberal Democrats (I assume you meant them rather than the actual still somehow existing Liberal party) won a majority and then renegaded on the biggest thing they've been campaigning for for the last sixty years, I'd never vote for them again.
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
Because there is nobody mad enough to take on 20,000 Scots.
I can understand that, taking on my dear wife is well enough on her own
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
Tell them not to invite 20000 Scots then.
Seriously it must be distressing for them though. Sorry for you and them.
We have invited some of our Scots family and just hope this stupid behaviour and their return to Scotland, which already has problems, does not see Sturgeon as she loves to do close the Scottish border, as we all know with her any excuse will do !!!!
I believe she has just banned any Scots going to Manchester already
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
Tell them not to invite 20000 Scots then.
Seriously it must be distressing for them though. Sorry for you and them.
We have invited some of our Scots family and just hope this stupid behaviour and their return to Scotland, which already has problems, does not see Sturgeon as she loves to do close the Scottish border, as we all know with her any excuse will do !!!!
I believe she has just banned any Scots going to Manchester already
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
I assume you meant them rather than the actual still somehow existing Liberal party
This was a really tiresome tactic back in the day from the likes of Normal Fowler who used to wrap his nasal tongue around the word Liberal with total disdain.
They're the Liberal Democrats and have been for 40 years.
I'm surprised someone on here is still doing the 'Liberals' thing. Assuming it wasn't a mistake it says something about that person.
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
Tell them not to invite 20000 Scots then.
Seriously it must be distressing for them though. Sorry for you and them.
We have invited some of our Scots family and just hope this stupid behaviour and their return to Scotland, which already has problems, does not see Sturgeon as she loves to do close the Scottish border, as we all know with her any excuse will do !!!!
I believe she has just banned any Scots going to Manchester already
Banned or recommended not to
Errr! I think banned but I stand ready to be corrected. As always
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
I assume you meant them rather than the actual still somehow existing Liberal party
This was a really tiresome tactic back in the day from the likes of Normal Fowler who used to wrap his nasal tongue around the word Liberal with total disdain.
They're the Liberal Democrats and have been for 40 years.
I'm surprised someone on here is still doing the 'Liberals' thing. Assuming it wasn't a mistake it says something about that person.
There's a reason I used the phrase "the Liberals in one form or another" - the Liberal Democrats certainly claim to be a form of Liberal party do they not?
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Someone said upthread about the pox at unis. As I said yesterday, niece and nephew both confirm it is rampant at Durham.
Would explain the MASSIVE rise in cases in the North East
Of course we are all interested to know about how this translates into hospitalisations and death.
But I would have thought that if these increase the press will be all over it. Given the demographic in sure there will be plenty of high powered interest in the stats.
Just checked, over a quarter of all Covid cases in the North East are in Country Durham.
Bloody Geordies
Are all the cases within a stone's throw of Durham uni by any chance?
Someone I know tells me that Newcastle students are currently full of covid.
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
I assume you meant them rather than the actual still somehow existing Liberal party
This was a really tiresome tactic back in the day from the likes of Normal Fowler who used to wrap his nasal tongue around the word Liberal with total disdain.
They're the Liberal Democrats and have been for 40 years.
I'm surprised someone on here is still doing the 'Liberals' thing. Assuming it wasn't a mistake it says something about that person.
There's a reason I used the phrase "the Liberals in one form or another" - the Liberal Democrats certainly claim to be a form of Liberal party do they not?
Police are continuing to engage with the crowd in Leicester Sq. to remind them the pandemic is still ongoing and of the need to social distance to keep themselves and others safe.
Police are continuing to engage with the crowd in Leicester Sq. to remind them the pandemic is still ongoing and of the need to social distance to keep themselves and others safe.
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
Tell them not to invite 20000 Scots then.
Seriously it must be distressing for them though. Sorry for you and them.
We have invited some of our Scots family and just hope this stupid behaviour and their return to Scotland, which already has problems, does not see Sturgeon as she loves to do close the Scottish border, as we all know with her any excuse will do !!!!
I believe she has just banned any Scots going to Manchester already
Banned or recommended not to
Errr! I think banned but I stand ready to be corrected. As always
Indeed you are correct Scots are banned to travel to Manchester and Salford
Police are continuing to engage with the crowd in Leicester Sq. to remind them the pandemic is still ongoing and of the need to social distance to keep themselves and others safe.
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
Tell them not to invite 20000 Scots then.
Seriously it must be distressing for them though. Sorry for you and them.
We have invited some of our Scots family and just hope this stupid behaviour and their return to Scotland, which already has problems, does not see Sturgeon as she loves to do close the Scottish border, as we all know with her any excuse will do !!!!
I believe she has just banned any Scots going to Manchester already
Banned or recommended not to
Errr! I think banned but I stand ready to be corrected. As always
Indeed you are correct Scots are banned to travel to Manchester and Salford
Good grief! You know what they say about stopped clocks.
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
Tell them not to invite 20000 Scots then.
Seriously it must be distressing for them though. Sorry for you and them.
We have invited some of our Scots family and just hope this stupid behaviour and their return to Scotland, which already has problems, does not see Sturgeon as she loves to do close the Scottish border, as we all know with her any excuse will do !!!!
I believe she has just banned any Scots going to Manchester already
Banned or recommended not to
Errr! I think banned but I stand ready to be corrected. As always
Indeed you are correct Scots are banned to travel to Manchester and Salford
Not really a shock, the assumption of many who propose a so called progressive alliance automatically assume every voters who does not vote Tory is anti Tory. You just cannot take people’s votes for granted or assume they will do as certain blue ticks on Twitter expect.
PCC votes are pretty good. So many Lab/Con or Con/Lab, or Green/Con and so on.
I would think in those circumstances the greens would garner rather more votes from other parties. There are many many people who would support an environmental issues party rather than one with an otherwise opposing agenda.
Except that they are more extreme socialists than Jeremy Corbyn. i am pretty woke on environmental matters but I would never vote for the Green sack cloth and ashes nutters
Lots do not see that though. I think a lot of people see them as a safe, harmless option.
Exactly - my MiL will vote for the greens, but I imagine she would vote Tory if push came to shove.
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
Tell them not to invite 20000 Scots then.
Seriously it must be distressing for them though. Sorry for you and them.
We have invited some of our Scots family and just hope this stupid behaviour and their return to Scotland, which already has problems, does not see Sturgeon as she loves to do close the Scottish border, as we all know with her any excuse will do !!!!
I believe she has just banned any Scots going to Manchester already
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
Tell them not to invite 20000 Scots then.
Seriously it must be distressing for them though. Sorry for you and them.
We have invited some of our Scots family and just hope this stupid behaviour and their return to Scotland, which already has problems, does not see Sturgeon as she loves to do close the Scottish border, as we all know with her any excuse will do !!!!
I believe she has just banned any Scots going to Manchester already
Banned or recommended not to
Errr! I think banned but I stand ready to be corrected. As always
Indeed you are correct Scots are banned to travel to Manchester and Salford
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
Tell them not to invite 20000 Scots then.
Seriously it must be distressing for them though. Sorry for you and them.
We have invited some of our Scots family and just hope this stupid behaviour and their return to Scotland, which already has problems, does not see Sturgeon as she loves to do close the Scottish border, as we all know with her any excuse will do !!!!
I believe she has just banned any Scots going to Manchester already
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Technically STV, which the Irish have, is not really PR - though it is more proportional than our system. It worked quite well for Ireland historically, because they were dominated by two large parties, so majorities could be achieved reasonably often.
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
If the Liberal Democrats (I assume you meant them rather than the actual still somehow existing Liberal party) won a majority and then renegaded on the biggest thing they've been campaigning for for the last sixty years, I'd never vote for them again.
I have good news for you: I think it is unlikely that the LDs will outright win a General Election and then fail to implement Proportional Representation.
I'm happy to offer you some good odds if you like.
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
Except that in the UK, when the party in power has tried to get rid of FPTP via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their FPTP system. The British people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper FPTP system gives them power over the politicians.
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
Tell them not to invite 20000 Scots then.
Seriously it must be distressing for them though. Sorry for you and them.
We have invited some of our Scots family and just hope this stupid behaviour and their return to Scotland, which already has problems, does not see Sturgeon as she loves to do close the Scottish border, as we all know with her any excuse will do !!!!
I believe she has just banned any Scots going to Manchester already
Banned or recommended not to
Errr! I think banned but I stand ready to be corrected. As always
Indeed you are correct Scots are banned to travel to Manchester and Salford
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
You may not have noticed this but this is the uk not ireland. All your example shows is people vote for the system they know. PR gives politicians the power over the people as its vote for us then after you have done so we will let you know what you voted for and claim your vote as a mandate even if you disagree with everything we decide you voted for.
To be serious, for a moment, I wonder if the EU’s behaviour over this ruling is likely to further encourage those compelled to do business with them to sign contracts in other jurisdictions.
Will a pharma company sign contracts under Belgian law if they get this level of abuse even when they win the case?
Yes, it will damage the EU's reputation.
On the other hand, the Belgian Court behaved sensibly, so it probably has less of an impact than if they'd ruled for the Commission.
Just to add, the EU knew, I'm sure, that it never had a case. This was deflection all along, to try and hide from the fact they fucked up vaccine procurement.
Ultimately, the Commission signs very few contracts. And it will, I'm sure, continue to insist on them being adjudicated in an EU country. So I'm not sure (from a legal contracts point of view) this has many consequences.
One of my colleagues was saying that oddly the EU would have had a better case if their contract was signed under UK jurisdiction with AZ PLC because the definition of terms such as best reasonable efforts are much narrower and it's possible that AZ PLC would not have been able to say it didn't have a charge on the UK manufactured vaccine that AZ Sweden was able to do.
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
Except that in the UK, when the party in power has tried to get rid of FPTP via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their FPTP system. The British people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper FPTP system gives them power over the politicians.
You're both right. FPTP and STV both give voters power of politicians. I would argue that STV gives more, but even with FPTP itspossibel for voters to enact some really quite high profile decapitations. There's no way that, say, Portillo or Balls could have been removed with a list system. Though having said that those two examples have now thoroughly rehabilitated themselves in the electorates eyes.
To be serious, for a moment, I wonder if the EU’s behaviour over this ruling is likely to further encourage those compelled to do business with them to sign contracts in other jurisdictions.
Will a pharma company sign contracts under Belgian law if they get this level of abuse even when they win the case?
Yes, it will damage the EU's reputation.
On the other hand, the Belgian Court behaved sensibly, so it probably has less of an impact than if they'd ruled for the Commission.
Just to add, the EU knew, I'm sure, that it never had a case. This was deflection all along, to try and hide from the fact they fucked up vaccine procurement.
Ultimately, the Commission signs very few contracts. And it will, I'm sure, continue to insist on them being adjudicated in an EU country. So I'm not sure (from a legal contracts point of view) this has many consequences.
One of my colleagues was saying that oddly the EU would have had a better case if their contract was signed under UK jurisdiction with AZ PLC because the definition of terms such as best reasonable efforts are much narrower and it's possible that AZ PLC would not have been able to say it didn't have a charge on the UK manufactured vaccine that AZ Sweden was able to do.
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
You may not have noticed this but this is the uk not ireland. All your example shows is people vote for the system they know. PR gives politicians the power over the people as its vote for us then after you have done so we will let you know what you voted for and claim your vote as a mandate even if you disagree with everything we decide you voted for.
Some countries have changed their voting systems repeatedly, of course: Italy being the most obvious example.
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
Except that in the UK, when the party in power has tried to get rid of FPTP via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their FPTP system. The British people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper FPTP system gives them power over the politicians.
Get rid of FPTP and introducing PR are two quite different things, Mr Thompson. Conservatives always do their best to confuse people - and in your case they seem to have succeeded.
When we last had a referendum, it was to introduce the AV system -- not to support or otherwise FPTP. And AV has nothing at all to do with PR.
In fact, at the time of the referendum, the line from the Conservative Party was "If you really want PR, vote now against AV, and we will introduce PR at a later date." Surely you remember that?
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
Tell them not to invite 20000 Scots then.
Seriously it must be distressing for them though. Sorry for you and them.
We have invited some of our Scots family and just hope this stupid behaviour and their return to Scotland, which already has problems, does not see Sturgeon as she loves to do close the Scottish border, as we all know with her any excuse will do !!!!
I believe she has just banned any Scots going to Manchester already
Banned or recommended not to
Errr! I think banned but I stand ready to be corrected. As always
Indeed you are correct Scots are banned to travel to Manchester and Salford
I largely agree Big G - faily relaxed about the Lib Dems winning (not least because I won £190 on them) - hopefully it will focus government minds a bit.
I'm fairly relaxed about 20,000 Scots in London, but angry on your behalf about the limitations being placed on your son. I'm also fascinated to see what will happen with Delta in Europe. I'm optimistic it won't be as bad as feared - seasonality and vaccines are on our side.
Andyes, as you say with Nicola, she's itching for an excuse to close the border!
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
With that final line of drivel, I can tell that you don’t live there.
@simoncoveney @MarosSefcovic tells College of Europe in Bruges that EU welcomes UKs recognition of the importance of trust, by asking for agreement on extension to the chilled meats grace period rather than acting unilaterally on NI Protocol. - I’ll be urging the EU to respond with generosity.
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
You may not have noticed this but this is the uk not ireland. All your example shows is people vote for the system they know. PR gives politicians the power over the people as its vote for us then after you have done so we will let you know what you voted for and claim your vote as a mandate even if you disagree with everything we decide you voted for.
Some countries have changed their voting systems repeatedly, of course: Italy being the most obvious example.
My point was sort of its at least as plausible that voters tend to vote for the status quo as to suggest it was the irish were somehow smarter or more politically savvy which is what he tried to imply
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
You may not have noticed this but this is the uk not ireland. All your example shows is people vote for the system they know. PR gives politicians the power over the people as its vote for us then after you have done so we will let you know what you voted for and claim your vote as a mandate even if you disagree with everything we decide you voted for.
Some countries have changed their voting systems repeatedly, of course: Italy being the most obvious example.
New Zealanders voted overwhelmingly for PR in the 1992 referendum.
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
Tell them not to invite 20000 Scots then.
Seriously it must be distressing for them though. Sorry for you and them.
We have invited some of our Scots family and just hope this stupid behaviour and their return to Scotland, which already has problems, does not see Sturgeon as she loves to do close the Scottish border, as we all know with her any excuse will do !!!!
I believe she has just banned any Scots going to Manchester already
Banned or recommended not to
Errr! I think banned but I stand ready to be corrected. As always
Indeed you are correct Scots are banned to travel to Manchester and Salford
But not Dundee which has a similar rate......
Yes, but no one wants to go to Dundee.
This prompted me to look for a reference to something which I couldn't find. But I did find this - apparently in Lagos, Nigeria, "Dundee United".
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
You may not have noticed this but this is the uk not ireland. All your example shows is people vote for the system they know. PR gives politicians the power over the people as its vote for us then after you have done so we will let you know what you voted for and claim your vote as a mandate even if you disagree with everything we decide you voted for.
They have PR in NI, for Assembly and Local elections.
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
Except that in the UK, when the party in power has tried to get rid of FPTP via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their FPTP system. The British people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper FPTP system gives them power over the politicians.
Get rid of FPTP and introducing PR are two quite different things, Mr Thompson. Conservatives always do their best to confuse people - and in your case they seem to have succeeded.
When we last had a referendum, it was to introduce the AV system -- not to support or otherwise FPTP. And AV has nothing at all to do with PR.
In fact, at the time of the referendum, the line from the Conservative Party was "If you really want PR, vote now against AV, and we will introduce PR at a later date." Surely you remember that?
No I don't remember that. I'd love you to quote anything official from the Conservative Party saying they'd introduce PR, because I'm pretty sure that's not the case.
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
You may not have noticed this but this is the uk not ireland. All your example shows is people vote for the system they know. PR gives politicians the power over the people as its vote for us then after you have done so we will let you know what you voted for and claim your vote as a mandate even if you disagree with everything we decide you voted for.
They have PR in NI, for Assembly and Local elections.
And NI is such a paragon of democratic excellence?
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
Tell them not to invite 20000 Scots then.
Seriously it must be distressing for them though. Sorry for you and them.
We have invited some of our Scots family and just hope this stupid behaviour and their return to Scotland, which already has problems, does not see Sturgeon as she loves to do close the Scottish border, as we all know with her any excuse will do !!!!
I believe she has just banned any Scots going to Manchester already
Banned or recommended not to
Errr! I think banned but I stand ready to be corrected. As always
Indeed you are correct Scots are banned to travel to Manchester and Salford
One of my colleagues, a Scot living and working in Manchester, has just travelled up to Edinburgh to visit her family. I think she has started digging a tunnel.
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
Except that in the UK, when the party in power has tried to get rid of FPTP via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their FPTP system. The British people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper FPTP system gives them power over the politicians.
Get rid of FPTP and introducing PR are two quite different things, Mr Thompson. Conservatives always do their best to confuse people - and in your case they seem to have succeeded.
When we last had a referendum, it was to introduce the AV system -- not to support or otherwise FPTP. And AV has nothing at all to do with PR.
In fact, at the time of the referendum, the line from the Conservative Party was "If you really want PR, vote now against AV, and we will introduce PR at a later date." Surely you remember that?
The NZ referendum had two questions, the first whether to replace FPTP, and the second to choose between 4 options.
Not that a referendum would be required if a FPTP government was implementing a manifesto commitment.
Moscow authorities this week said anyone working in a public-facing role must have a vaccination, and on Friday they said anyone who had not been vaccinated would be refused non-emergency hospital treatment.
And this suggests even the 10% vaccinated have problems:
Sobyanin said it was now even vital to start administering further boosters - in effect, a third dose. He said he himself had just received a top-up, after being fully vaccinated a year ago.
The third doses being offered are a repeat of the first dose of the two-shot Sputnik V vaccine, he said.
Several Russian officials and members of the business elite, as well as some members of the public, have already been securing third and fourth doses of Sputnik V, Reuters reported in April.
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
You may not have noticed this but this is the uk not ireland. All your example shows is people vote for the system they know. PR gives politicians the power over the people as its vote for us then after you have done so we will let you know what you voted for and claim your vote as a mandate even if you disagree with everything we decide you voted for.
They have PR in NI, for Assembly and Local elections.
And NI is such a paragon of democratic excellence?
You said: "This is the UK not Ireland". NI, for now, is part of the UK, no?
Well, it's there too. But there's a quantitive difference in the size of the Indian diaspora in European countries compared to the UK.
If you look at the Wikipedia numbers, there isn't a single EU country in the top 25 nations by size of Indian ethnic origin.
So, my guess is that EU countries maybe had one tenth of the number of Delta cases seeded, which means that it's growing from a lower base. It effectively give them a six week headstart over us.
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Cruelly deprived of...if not having PR is cruelty then sign me up as a masochist. By all means though continue to campaign on it as its a purely technocratic thing that most people really don't care about. You won't get it past a referendum
Except that in Ireland, when the party in power has tried to get rid of PR via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their PR system. The Irish people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper PR system gives them power over the politicians.
Except that in the UK, when the party in power has tried to get rid of FPTP via a referendum, the people have always voted to keep their FPTP system. The British people are both well informed and experienced, and know that a proper FPTP system gives them power over the politicians.
Get rid of FPTP and introducing PR are two quite different things, Mr Thompson. Conservatives always do their best to confuse people - and in your case they seem to have succeeded.
When we last had a referendum, it was to introduce the AV system -- not to support or otherwise FPTP. And AV has nothing at all to do with PR.
In fact, at the time of the referendum, the line from the Conservative Party was "If you really want PR, vote now against AV, and we will introduce PR at a later date." Surely you remember that?
The NZ referendum had two questions, the first whether to replace FPTP, and the second to choose between 4 options.
Not that a referendum would be required if a FPTP government was implementing a manifesto commitment.
A precedent was set by the 2011 referendum though.
Well, it's there too. But there's a quantitive difference in the size of the Indian diaspora in European countries compared to the UK.
If you look at the Wikipedia numbers, there isn't a single EU country in the top 25 nations by size of Indian ethnic origin.
So, my guess is that EU countries maybe had one tenth of the number of Delta cases seeded, which means that it's growing from a lower base. It effectively give them a six week headstart over us.
To be serious, for a moment, I wonder if the EU’s behaviour over this ruling is likely to further encourage those compelled to do business with them to sign contracts in other jurisdictions.
Will a pharma company sign contracts under Belgian law if they get this level of abuse even when they win the case?
Yes, it will damage the EU's reputation.
On the other hand, the Belgian Court behaved sensibly, so it probably has less of an impact than if they'd ruled for the Commission.
The Belgian court did rule for the Commission, or at least against AstraZeneca.
I don't think the reputation of either party has been enhanced. The sensible thing now is come to terms.
To be serious, for a moment, I wonder if the EU’s behaviour over this ruling is likely to further encourage those compelled to do business with them to sign contracts in other jurisdictions.
Will a pharma company sign contracts under Belgian law if they get this level of abuse even when they win the case?
Yes, it will damage the EU's reputation.
On the other hand, the Belgian Court behaved sensibly, so it probably has less of an impact than if they'd ruled for the Commission.
The Belgian court did rule for the Commission, or at least against AstraZeneca
Sort of. It’s not the sort of victory that my old firm’s litigators would be putting on their CVs. There’s a reason that people look to NY or English law for international supply contracts.
I loathe list based PR systems, but suspect that multi-member STV might actually be a nice breath of fresh air. And so long as the constituencies don't have too many members (say 3 or 4), you actually give voters a bit more control relative to parties.
Maybe this Century will see a reversion back to Conservative/Liberal and Labour will decline... Nothing more than a 20th century fad that only won with four leaders (McDonald, Atlee, Wilson and Blair) in 100 years?
It would be amusing if the Liberals in one form or another were to win an outright majority how long it would take them, like Trudeau, to suddenly understand the wonders of FPTP.
Attachment of Justin Trudeau's Liberal Party of Canada hardly sudden, as Grits have been contesting elections - provincial as well as federal - on that basis since before 1867. And while they've endured several severe defeats under FPTP (just 34 of 308 seats in 2011 GE) for most of confederation the Liberals have been THE Party of Government in the Great White North.
Of course the British Liberal Party had zero problem with FPTP in the age of Gladstone v Disraeli, and for decades thereafter. Wonder why?
No need to wonder, Mr Irish. The 1910 Liberal government was on the point of changing the voting system to a proportional one - but then it was blow off course by other issues, like the Irish question, women's suffrage and the German invasion of Belgium.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
It was actually the British Government who brought in STV to Irish elections in 1919 to try and reduce Sinn Fein's dominance.
Comments
He spotted the sol-ar cause.
Hat's off to Mike too. I suspect he (and all of us) were surprised at the degree of victory.
https://twitter.com/DavidGHFrost/status/1405944455778209795?s=20
@PickardJE
·
34m
kudos to
@kateferguson4
who called the by-election correctly - with total conviction - in an actual news story
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/06/18/a_plan_to_get_divisive__radical_theories_out_of_our_schools_145946.html
The EU has been unsuccessful in convincing court to force AstraZeneca to deliver 300m doses by Sept. Instead they only have to deliver 80m.
But this lawsuit was never really about the doses (EU now doesn't need them). It was about getting a court to establish contract violation.
https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1405934018596589569
Here's what EU Health Commisssioner Stella Kyriakides said on April 26th:
Our priority is to ensure #COVID19 vaccine deliveries take place to protect the health of 🇪🇺.
This is why
@EU_Commission
has decided jointly with all Member States to bring legal proceedings against #AstraZeneca.
Every vaccine dose counts. Every vaccine dose saves lives.
https://twitter.com/SKyriakidesEU/status/1386646730876366850
What is interesting about C&A is what it now says about the LibDems in terms of rehabilitation. Its clear Labour voters almost entirely switched to us, so the "you're yellow Tories" jibe must be fading as is a swathe of seats in 2019 a wee bit of Lab > LD switching would have removed a stack of Tory MPs.
If that is sustained then yes various shire Tories including the former PM should be worried. I don't know where Labour go from here and until someone grows a pair and purges the hard left I don't care. We need a threat to the Tory hold in England, and yesterday we had the first sign of that emerging. Just a pity that I held my "don't bet" line and put the £20 I was sorely tempted to on us to win
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Replaying-1992-General-Election-alternative/dp/0853281475
Will a pharma company sign contracts under Belgian law if they get this level of abuse even when they win the case?
I am surprisingly relaxed by the lib dem win and would not be averse to Boris coming under pressure, but should Starmer lose B&S he will be the one under real pressure
Seems many on here had a successful betting night and congratulations to all those winners, though I do not bet nor understand the betting odds
I would ask what on earth is going on with the 20,000 plus Scots fans singing and dancing and no social distancing in London, when my son and his partner have been told by Drakeford today that if they allow that at their wedding in 6 weeks, they face a £10,000 fine
I am also perplexed why Delta has not seemingly affected Europe yet, and do the 'in the know' expect Europe to see an explosion in the young, as seems to be happening here, and especially with the increasing holiday travel within and to Europe
Seriously it must be distressing for them though. Sorry for you and them.
Kindly remit your cashiers checks and other readily-negotiable instruments to:
FFIPUEPAOUPB, Box PB, Treuhandbank für globale Betrüger (TfGB), 1 Sückertraße, Vaduz, Liechtenstein
On the other hand, the Belgian Court behaved sensibly, so it probably has less of an impact than if they'd ruled for the Commission.
Ultimately, the Commission signs very few contracts. And it will, I'm sure, continue to insist on them being adjudicated in an EU country. So I'm not sure (from a legal contracts point of view) this has many consequences.
Nevertheless, when the Irish Republic was set up, it was with the same proportional voting system, which it enjoys to this day and which the rest of the country was so cruelly deprived of.
Many LibDems would have been horrified at the idea of putting Corbyn in power, coalition or not.
Chaos in LOTO this evening, as Starmer’s Comms director Ben Nunn, and his deputy Paul Ovenden quit their roles
https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes/status/1405953435913031685?s=20
They're the Liberal Democrats and have been for 40 years.
I'm surprised someone on here is still doing the 'Liberals' thing. Assuming it wasn't a mistake it says something about that person.
Police are continuing to engage with the crowd in Leicester Sq. to remind them the pandemic is still ongoing and of the need to social distance to keep themselves and others safe.
https://twitter.com/MetPoliceEvents/status/1405958370008391687?s=20
Or not as the case may be.
I'm happy to offer you some good odds if you like.
https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/en/politics/uk-by-elections/batley-and-spen-by-election-betting-1.183248116
Though having said that those two examples have now thoroughly rehabilitated themselves in the electorates eyes.
When we last had a referendum, it was to introduce the AV system -- not to support or otherwise FPTP. And AV has nothing at all to do with PR.
In fact, at the time of the referendum, the line from the Conservative Party was "If you really want PR, vote now against AV, and we will introduce PR at a later date." Surely you remember that?
I'm fairly relaxed about 20,000 Scots in London, but angry on your behalf about the limitations being placed on your son.
I'm also fascinated to see what will happen with Delta in Europe. I'm optimistic it won't be as bad as feared - seasonality and vaccines are on our side.
Andyes, as you say with Nicola, she's itching for an excuse to close the border!
https://www.roads.org.uk/articles/euroroute
Not that a referendum would be required if a FPTP government was implementing a manifesto commitment.
Moscow authorities this week said anyone working in a public-facing role must have a vaccination, and on Friday they said anyone who had not been vaccinated would be refused non-emergency hospital treatment.
And this suggests even the 10% vaccinated have problems:
Sobyanin said it was now even vital to start administering further boosters - in effect, a third dose. He said he himself had just received a top-up, after being fully vaccinated a year ago.
The third doses being offered are a repeat of the first dose of the two-shot Sputnik V vaccine, he said.
Several Russian officials and members of the business elite, as well as some members of the public, have already been securing third and fourth doses of Sputnik V, Reuters reported in April.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/covid-19-cases-hit-an-all-time-daily-high-moscow-2021-06-18/
You asked about Delta in Europe.
Well, it's there too. But there's a quantitive difference in the size of the Indian diaspora in European countries compared to the UK.
If you look at the Wikipedia numbers, there isn't a single EU country in the top 25 nations by size of Indian ethnic origin.
So, my guess is that EU countries maybe had one tenth of the number of Delta cases seeded, which means that it's growing from a lower base. It effectively give them a six week headstart over us.
I don't think the reputation of either party has been enhanced. The sensible thing now is come to terms.
Kane completely anonymous at present.