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If uniform national swing (UNS) applies then the Tories will make it three by-election wins out of t

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  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Andy_JS said:

    Sorry to disagree with the header but I don't think there's going to be much of a relationship between how the Tories do in Chesham&Amersham and Batley&Spen. C&A is the third least deprived seat in the country and B&S is at the other end of the spectrum.

    Agree, because by elections have their own individual rules. UNS does not apply. If and when it does apply then the header's thesis is mysteriously true: by some zeitgeist people from South Holland to Walton all move in step with each other.

    BTW while I have a sense that the Tories may well have a nose in front at B and S, because of Galloway, I can't get a sense of C and A at all. Which for me makes the LDs worth a small punt given the odds.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Cookie said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    FPT - what are people's views on what is happening with the Delta variant in Europe? Is it there yet and just not being unearthed because they're not doing the sequencing? If so, are they three weeks behind a surge in cases? Is there comparative slowness to vaccinate going to be a problem? Or is Delta a) overblown or b) going to be cancelled out by vaccinations and seasonality?
    My view is the latter. But it is not an informed view.

    My uninformed view is that they’re a few weeks behind the UK, but with a much lower vaccination rate and more encouragement to travel and take holidays. August could be utter carnage. Same goes for USA.
    Thanks Sandpit. Your uninformed view is as good as (and more interesting than) mine!
    Indeed. What would this site be without uninformed views? ;)

    (Actually, as a group we are seriously over-informed, against the general population. We joke about being uninformed while spending all day informing ourselves. There’s even several people here sharing what they’re being paid to research, in real time).
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting graphic from the Telegraph, who appear to be rapidly breaking off their support of the government...

    That actually really annoyed me. They actually showed projections going into the future as well as the current data. And the Telegraph conveniently ignored the start of the second and first waves, which looked awfully similar.
    Not sure about Telegraph breaking off support. They have featured a steady stream of commentators and opinion pieces on why lockdown isn't working and so on. See their Planet Normal podcast for example.
    Talk Radio and the Telegraph have been the biggest pushers of anti-lockdown / faster opening of any of the mainstream media.

    The mail seems to veer from lock me down harder and faster, to 10 mins later, running pieces saying why are the government locking down so hard, what about my uman rights.
    It's a shame there haven't been more lockdown-critical voices from the left. Zoe Williams at the Guardian is the sole outrider, although Sadiq Khan has moved sharply against it in recent times.
  • citycentrecitycentre Posts: 90

    isam said:

    I just saw the Nicholas Watt footage& have to agree with @david_herdson - what were the dozens of police doing just standing there? Were they waiting for him to be assaulted before they stepped in? Crazy

    Can people just walk up to you in the street and aggressively hurl abuse at you, right before a policeman’s eyes, and not be apprehended or warned?

    If they'd used the wrong pronoun they would have been in the back of the van faster than you can say "self-identify".
    I think we are in a situation now where a lot of the police do not agree with whats going on
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    rcs1000 said:

    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    FPT - what are people's views on what is happening with the Delta variant in Europe? Is it there yet and just not being unearthed because they're not doing the sequencing? If so, are they three weeks behind a surge in cases? Is there comparative slowness to vaccinate going to be a problem? Or is Delta a) overblown or b) going to be cancelled out by vaccinations and seasonality?
    My view is the latter. But it is not an informed view.

    My uninformed view is that they’re a few weeks behind the UK, but with a much lower vaccination rate and more encouragement to travel and take holidays. August could be utter carnage. Same goes for USA.
    I think most EU countries lack the big Indian/Pakistani communities that the UK has, this means the level of "seeding" from India is going to be dramatically lower, and there is less room for community transmission. Don't forget that most of the growth in cases of Delta have happened in places which combine large Asian communities with high population density. Europe - while it has a decent sized Indian diaspora in aggregate - lacks places like Bolton, Blackburn or Bedford.

    I also think there's a tendency to miss how much the EU is catching up with vaccines. They distributed something like 35m doses last week, almost all of which were Pfizer. That's 10% of their adult population in a week. Most EU countries are now comfortably above 50% for first doses, and at about 25% for fully vaccinated. That's where the US was about seven weeks ago.

    The final issue is that most EU countries don't seem to be in thrall to zero Covid. They are reducing restrictions as people get jabbed, without waiting for cases to get close to zero. And if they are able to keep up 35m jabs a week, then that's fine: they'll get to herd immunity long before health services are overrun.
    Let’s see who’s right in a month or so. I hope it’s you.
  • citycentrecitycentre Posts: 90
    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    lower uptake amongst younger age groups...frankly who can blame them at the moment
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited June 2021

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting graphic from the Telegraph, who appear to be rapidly breaking off their support of the government...

    That actually really annoyed me. They actually showed projections going into the future as well as the current data. And the Telegraph conveniently ignored the start of the second and first waves, which looked awfully similar.
    Not sure about Telegraph breaking off support. They have featured a steady stream of commentators and opinion pieces on why lockdown isn't working and so on. See their Planet Normal podcast for example.
    Talk Radio and the Telegraph have been the biggest pushers of anti-lockdown / faster opening of any of the mainstream media.

    The mail seems to veer from lock me down harder and faster, to 10 mins later, running pieces saying why are the government locking down so hard, what about my uman rights.
    It's a shame there haven't been more lockdown-critical voices from the left. Zoe Williams at the Guardian is the sole outrider, although Sadiq Khan has moved sharply against it in recent times.
    The problem is the "debate" the media facilitate is normally between the zero covidians and herd immunity / IFR is only 0.000001% extremists...

    No room for the nuanced. Covid is real, is bad, we can't do nothing, but are the models right and if they aren't how does that change things....and it is going to be in some form for basically ever, so we need a strategy going forward.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited June 2021
    7,673 cases, 10 deaths, 184 admissions.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    The 'noise' continues in the positive tests numbers...

    Be back later to discuss this 'noise'...
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    edited June 2021

    7,673 cases, 10 deaths, 184 admissions.

    Devastating.

    Murder Tuesday.
  • citycentrecitycentre Posts: 90

    7,673 cases, 10 deaths, 184 admissions.

    Think we need to reverse stage 3 quickly otherwise we could have 15 deaths in a couple of weeks...and it could be your granny
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    maaarsh said:

    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.

    It's a very sharp w-o-w fall in the inflation rate. Much more than I could ever hoped for. Into the 30s...

    Just noise?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,716
    maaarsh said:

    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.

    The modellers have lashed themselves to their delta mast. If/when the massive summer surge doesn't happen - what then? Time to say enough?

  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    alex_ said:

    7,673 cases, 10 deaths, 184 admissions.

    Devastating.

    Murder Tuesday.
    Boris is hiding the bodies again....
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    edited June 2021

    Mortimer said:

    maaarsh said:

    Mortimer said:

    Managed to rebook my jab for 9 weeks from the first dose, today. Thrilled!

    On the basis of this decided to take the plunge and am now 4 weeks earlier than my previous 2nd dose - many thanks
    I've told all my mates in their 30s - so far all have been able to bring it forward.
    I’m on Moderna, second jab mid-July.
    Is it worth my trying to re-book?
    Try and see.
    Worried I’ll lose my slot, or be sent to some remote wildnerness...like Zone 4 or something.
    That's the problem with the system. You can't take a peek to see what the options are before you cancel.

    Hence I stuck with my 11-week, after work slot.
    Just do it in the middle of the night, nobody is going to be rebooking then.

    Also, i found huge availability, that wasn't there 2 weeks ago. It was as if the system was trying to give me every possible option to get done. 2 weeks ago, it was my local hub or a 2hr drive and it was you have to come on a particular day.

    When i rebooked yesterday, it was literally come any day, any time, and if you don't want to local hub, here is a load of other close options.
    Precisely. Supply is no longer the issue, the system is running out of arms to jab.

    8 weeks ago very few first jabs were done, plus we're already (unofficially) doing first jabs on all over 18s and will officially be doing them by the end of the week.

    If there's more supply than there are eligible people to be jabbed then there'll be plenty of availability but a slowdown in jabs done.
    Philip, we have done 41.6m first doses which is said to be just under 80% of the adult population. That means we have about 10m first doses to go, not including children. At the rate we are currently going with first doses that is going to take a lot more than a month. We have just under 30m second doses which is 56% of the population so we have about 23.2m to go there, something like 33.2m all together. At our rolling average of 3.2m that would take just over 10 weeks.

    It is not accurate that we are running out of arms. If we are running out of willing arms at this stage we have a serious problem.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Well offtopic, and into Pedants’ Corner, the Daily Mail’s sub-editor thinks that the plural of “Director-General” is “Director-Generals”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9687155/Martin-Bashir-Ex-BBC-director-generals-Lord-face-grilling-MPs-Diana-Panorama-interview.html
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    maaarsh said:

    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.

    It's a very sharp w-o-w fall in the inflation rate. Much more than I could ever hoped for. Into the 30s...

    Just noise?
    Right now there are members of SAGE modelling teams praying for a case surge. The evidence from Bolton, Bedford and Blackburn is they will be disappointed.

    Once can only hope there is anyone left in Government to point out the nonsense and invoke the 2 week break clause on the extension of restrictions.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    maaarsh said:

    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.

    The modellers have lashed themselves to their delta mast. If/when the massive summer surge doesn't happen - what then? Time to say enough?

    Interesting hypothetical.

    Is it possible to bring 19 July forward?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    edited June 2021
    Cases heading south on a tuesday is positive. Wednesdays tend to provide a stern test for the vaccine though. If cases are good tommorow we're beyond noise.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590

    maaarsh said:

    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.

    The modellers have lashed themselves to their delta mast. If/when the massive summer surge doesn't happen - what then? Time to say enough?

    Interesting hypothetical.

    Is it possible to bring 19 July forward?
    Boris said we could revert in 2 weeks, but it was unlikely (because he's not numerically bright enough to read the models for himself and spot the bullshit).

    But if we're still sat at cases below 10k in 2 weeks then the logic of the announcement is we unlock immediately.
  • TheWhiteRabbitTheWhiteRabbit Posts: 12,454
    edited June 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    Cases heading south on a tuesday is positive. Wednesdays tend to provide a stern test for the vaccine though.

    Numbers today 26% higher than those reported on last Tuesday.

    If today's figure is repeated tomorrow, it would be an increase of just 2%.

    At this rate, the Government's proposals aren't going to make it to 21 June let alone 19 July
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.

    It's a very sharp w-o-w fall in the inflation rate. Much more than I could ever hoped for. Into the 30s...

    Just noise?
    Right now there are members of SAGE modelling teams praying for a case surge. The evidence from Bolton, Bedford and Blackburn is they will be disappointed.

    Once can only hope there is anyone left in Government to point out the nonsense and invoke the 2 week break clause on the extension of restrictions.
    If the surge doesn't happen I'd be very happy. If a short delay to further easing helps that so much the better.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Looks like somebody is having a nice time...

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1404818021965873156
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,354

    The 'noise' continues in the positive tests numbers...

    Be back later to discuss this 'noise'...

    The weekly rate of increase has dropped from 66% to 38% over the past 7 days. Today's figure is up 26% on last Tuesday's so that rate of increase should fall further.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Pulpstar said:

    Cases heading south on a tuesday is positive. Wednesdays tend to provide a stern test for the vaccine though. If cases are good tommorow we're beyond noise.

    It's a seven-day, week-on-week figure, so the Wednesday effect should be ironed out...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,817
    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.

    It's a very sharp w-o-w fall in the inflation rate. Much more than I could ever hoped for. Into the 30s...

    Just noise?
    Right now there are members of SAGE modelling teams praying for a case surge. The evidence from Bolton, Bedford and Blackburn is they will be disappointed.

    Once can only hope there is anyone left in Government to point out the nonsense and invoke the 2 week break clause on the extension of restrictions.
    It seems much more likely to me that the delta variant is hitting the parameters of the unvaxxed, multigenerational households that it was seeded in and is finding spread in the more general population with their highish levels of vaccination more difficult. I certainly hope so.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2021
    DavidL said:

    Mortimer said:

    maaarsh said:

    Mortimer said:

    Managed to rebook my jab for 9 weeks from the first dose, today. Thrilled!

    On the basis of this decided to take the plunge and am now 4 weeks earlier than my previous 2nd dose - many thanks
    I've told all my mates in their 30s - so far all have been able to bring it forward.
    I’m on Moderna, second jab mid-July.
    Is it worth my trying to re-book?
    Try and see.
    Worried I’ll lose my slot, or be sent to some remote wildnerness...like Zone 4 or something.
    That's the problem with the system. You can't take a peek to see what the options are before you cancel.

    Hence I stuck with my 11-week, after work slot.
    Just do it in the middle of the night, nobody is going to be rebooking then.

    Also, i found huge availability, that wasn't there 2 weeks ago. It was as if the system was trying to give me every possible option to get done. 2 weeks ago, it was my local hub or a 2hr drive and it was you have to come on a particular day.

    When i rebooked yesterday, it was literally come any day, any time, and if you don't want to local hub, here is a load of other close options.
    Precisely. Supply is no longer the issue, the system is running out of arms to jab.

    8 weeks ago very few first jabs were done, plus we're already (unofficially) doing first jabs on all over 18s and will officially be doing them by the end of the week.

    If there's more supply than there are eligible people to be jabbed then there'll be plenty of availability but a slowdown in jabs done.
    Philip, we have done 41.6m first doses which is said to be just under 80% of the adult population. That means we have about 10m first doses to go, not including children. At the rate we are currently going with first doses that is going to take a lot more than a month. We have just under 30m second doses which is 56% of the population so we have about 23.2m to go there, something like 33.2m all together. At our rolling average of 3.2m that would take just over 10 weeks.

    It is not accurate that we are running out of arms. If we are running out of willing arms at this stage we have a serious problem.
    Sorry but its frankly ridiculous to assume that 100% of the population is going to be vaccinated, there's not a nation on the planet that has or will achieve that.

    For one thing our population is possibly lower than the official estimates, bearing in mind reports of close to a million people leaving the country and not returning in the 16 months they're not going to be vaccinated.

    For another not everyone is going to agree to be vaccinated. That is what it is, we will need to do what we can to encourage them but its on them to take responsibility for their own health.

    For another some of those who will get the vaccine won't get it the day they're eligible to do so whether it be due to nervousness or waiting for a time that's convenient for them.

    Next of course I said that later this week it will be available to all over 18s (which is what the NHS boss is saying), that's not the same as saying its the case today.

    Finally most nations around the world would look on with envy about an 80% takeup rate.

    PS as for second doses many second doses will never be given (eg because the recipient died from naturall causes after the first), or because people react to side effects by deciding not to bother with the second - and of course there's currently an 8 week gap between first and eligibility for the second. Anyone who's been jabbed with the first within the last eight weeks isn't eligible for the second currently. I expect the 8 week gap to progressively shrink over coming weeks.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    Pulpstar said:

    Cases heading south on a tuesday is positive. Wednesdays tend to provide a stern test for the vaccine though.

    Numbers today 26% higher than those reported on last Tuesday.

    If today's figure is repeated tomorrow, it would be an increase of just 2%.

    yes cases up 26% Tuesday compared to last Tuesday but also testing up.

    Last Tuesday: 727,274
    Today: 930,123
    increase: 202,849


    or as a percentage 27.89%

    So if all tests where equally likely to find a positive case then, this would suggest a drop! now that's not likely to be the case fully, as the extra test where I believe the mass Asemantic testing in schools, collage and university's,

    But I stand by my prediction that cases, by specimen date, and mid point of the 7 day average, will peak on or before 21 June, i.e. opening day.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited June 2021

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    edited June 2021
    Last tuesday reported was 6048, last wednesday 7540; tuesday before that 3165 -> 4330

    Tuesday to wednesday is where the big jumps have tended to happen by reported date. Today is 7673 I expect tommorow will be north of 8k, hopefully not by too much.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,431

    Looks like somebody is having a nice time...

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1404818021965873156

    First sensible post I've seen from him.

    Although might be being a tad unfair. Burnham on Crouch at high tide is a lovely place.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Sandpit said:

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
    Deaths are in green. They are down week on week.

    But sure we'll be at hundreds or thousands a day within a month. 🤦‍♂️
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    felix said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.

    It's a very sharp w-o-w fall in the inflation rate. Much more than I could ever hoped for. Into the 30s...

    Just noise?
    Right now there are members of SAGE modelling teams praying for a case surge. The evidence from Bolton, Bedford and Blackburn is they will be disappointed.

    Once can only hope there is anyone left in Government to point out the nonsense and invoke the 2 week break clause on the extension of restrictions.
    If the surge doesn't happen I'd be very happy. If a short delay to further easing helps that so much the better.
    Check your privilege – 50,000 brides facing 'socially distanced' weddings...
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Pulpstar said:

    Last tuesday reported was 6048, last wednesday 7540; tuesday before that 3165 -> 4330

    Tuesday to wednesday is where the big jumps have tended to happen by reported date. Today is 7673 I expect tommorow will be north of 8k, hopefully not by too much.


    It doesn't matter as the rate is a week on week figure (not day of week vs same day last week)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,928

    Sandpit said:

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
    Deaths are in green. They are down week on week.

    But sure we'll be at hundreds or thousands a day within a month. 🤦‍♂️
    Even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    BBC News Channel: talking endlessly about Martin Bashir. Sorry, I'm not interested.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,793
    BigRich said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cases heading south on a tuesday is positive. Wednesdays tend to provide a stern test for the vaccine though.

    Numbers today 26% higher than those reported on last Tuesday.

    If today's figure is repeated tomorrow, it would be an increase of just 2%.

    yes cases up 26% Tuesday compared to last Tuesday but also testing up.

    Last Tuesday: 727,274
    Today: 930,123
    increase: 202,849


    or as a percentage 27.89%

    So if all tests where equally likely to find a positive case then, this would suggest a drop! now that's not likely to be the case fully, as the extra test where I believe the mass Asemantic testing in schools, collage and university's,

    But I stand by my prediction that cases, by specimen date, and mid point of the 7 day average, will peak on or before 21 June, i.e. opening day.
    Yes, agree. Suspect ONS data will end up showing we've peaked already.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    People don't seem to grasp that the positive cases rate is week on week.

    The weekday is irrelevant.

    The inflation rate is falling pretty fast.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,561

    Pulpstar said:

    Cases heading south on a tuesday is positive. Wednesdays tend to provide a stern test for the vaccine though.

    Numbers today 26% higher than those reported on last Tuesday.

    If today's figure is repeated tomorrow, it would be an increase of just 2%.

    At this rate, the Government's proposals aren't going to make it to 21 June let alone 19 July
    Hoping for a press conference where Boris realises he has been played by SAGE (and worse, Scotland is going to open up first - giving Sturgeon the bragging rights....)

    "Aw, fuck it, as you were - 21st Jun is a go lads....knock yourselves out!"

    Admittedly, not a high hope....
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
    Deaths are in green. They are down week on week.

    But sure we'll be at hundreds or thousands a day within a month. 🤦‍♂️
    Even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day.
    No, but they have predicted a peek of 500 a day, even with this extension to the lockdown, (and 700 a day without it)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,793
    Sandpit said:

    Well offtopic, and into Pedants’ Corner, the Daily Mail’s sub-editor thinks that the plural of “Director-General” is “Director-Generals”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9687155/Martin-Bashir-Ex-BBC-director-generals-Lord-face-grilling-MPs-Diana-Panorama-interview.html

    I love pluralising compound nouns. Reminds me of this, which is one of my favourite SMBCs.
    https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/plural
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    Cookie said:

    BigRich said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cases heading south on a tuesday is positive. Wednesdays tend to provide a stern test for the vaccine though.

    Numbers today 26% higher than those reported on last Tuesday.

    If today's figure is repeated tomorrow, it would be an increase of just 2%.

    yes cases up 26% Tuesday compared to last Tuesday but also testing up.

    Last Tuesday: 727,274
    Today: 930,123
    increase: 202,849


    or as a percentage 27.89%

    So if all tests where equally likely to find a positive case then, this would suggest a drop! now that's not likely to be the case fully, as the extra test where I believe the mass Asemantic testing in schools, collage and university's,

    But I stand by my prediction that cases, by specimen date, and mid point of the 7 day average, will peak on or before 21 June, i.e. opening day.
    Yes, agree. Suspect ONS data will end up showing we've peaked already.
    ONS is a bit behind so probably not. But the seven day graph shows a clearly peaking/flattening curve
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    Andy_JS said:

    BBC News Channel: talking endlessly about Martin Bashir. Sorry, I'm not interested.

    It’s the BBC’s favourite discussion topic - themselves.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,928
    BigRich said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
    Deaths are in green. They are down week on week.

    But sure we'll be at hundreds or thousands a day within a month. 🤦‍♂️
    Even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day.
    No, but they have predicted a peek of 500 a day, even with this extension to the lockdown, (and 700 a day without it)
    No, it's 250/day for one model, 500/day for another, assuming no change in the unlocking plan:

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/993510/S1287_SPI-M-O_Summary_Roadmap_step_4.pdf
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    edited June 2021
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
    Deaths are in green. They are down week on week.

    But sure we'll be at hundreds or thousands a day within a month. 🤦‍♂️
    Even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day.
    Yes they were. This is the kind of bullshit that is in the Warwick University model. The solid black line of their "cautious" model predicts an expected death peak above the winter peak and the shading goes up to potentially 3000 deaths per day. 🤦‍♂️



    EDIT: This nonsense is from Page 13 of the Warwick University model: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/993358/s1288_Warwick_RoadMap_Step_4.pdf
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,928

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
    Deaths are in green. They are down week on week.

    But sure we'll be at hundreds or thousands a day within a month. 🤦‍♂️
    Even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day.
    Yes they were. This is the kind of bullshit that is in the Warwick University model. The solid black line of their "cautious" model predicts an expected death peak above the winter peak and the shading goes up to potentially 3000 deaths per day. 🤦‍♂️


    Not in the papers released by the SAGE committee:

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/993510/S1287_SPI-M-O_Summary_Roadmap_step_4.pdf
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Andy_JS said:

    BBC News Channel: talking endlessly about Martin Bashir. Sorry, I'm not interested.

    Perhaps they are trying to bore everybody into apathy about their cock-up.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    felix said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.

    It's a very sharp w-o-w fall in the inflation rate. Much more than I could ever hoped for. Into the 30s...

    Just noise?
    Right now there are members of SAGE modelling teams praying for a case surge. The evidence from Bolton, Bedford and Blackburn is they will be disappointed.

    Once can only hope there is anyone left in Government to point out the nonsense and invoke the 2 week break clause on the extension of restrictions.
    If the surge doesn't happen I'd be very happy. If a short delay to further easing helps that so much the better.
    Check your privilege – 50,000 brides facing 'socially distanced' weddings...
    God you are an idiot at times. I have had one AZN jab, 67 with high BP and other health issues. I must wait till the end of July for the second. So, not to put too fine a point on it, you can shove your brides where the sun doesn't shine. Moron.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
    Deaths are in green. They are down week on week.

    But sure we'll be at hundreds or thousands a day within a month. 🤦‍♂️
    Even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day.
    Yes they were. This is the kind of bullshit that is in the Warwick University model. The solid black line of their "cautious" model predicts an expected death peak above the winter peak and the shading goes up to potentially 3000 deaths per day. 🤦‍♂️


    Their dashed line is optimistic, don’t they understand the concept of vaccination?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,928

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
    Deaths are in green. They are down week on week.

    But sure we'll be at hundreds or thousands a day within a month. 🤦‍♂️
    Even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day.
    Yes they were. This is the kind of bullshit that is in the Warwick University model. The solid black line of their "cautious" model predicts an expected death peak above the winter peak and the shading goes up to potentially 3000 deaths per day. 🤦‍♂️



    EDIT: This nonsense is from Page 13 of the Warwick University model: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/993358/s1288_Warwick_RoadMap_Step_4.pdf
    Look at Figure 2, that's the default assumption, which matches the government papers.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    Pulpstar said:

    Cases heading south on a tuesday is positive. Wednesdays tend to provide a stern test for the vaccine though.

    Numbers today 26% higher than those reported on last Tuesday.

    If today's figure is repeated tomorrow, it would be an increase of just 2%.

    At this rate, the Government's proposals aren't going to make it to 21 June let alone 19 July
    Hoping for a press conference where Boris realises he has been played by SAGE (and worse, Scotland is going to open up first - giving Sturgeon the bragging rights....)

    "Aw, fuck it, as you were - 21st Jun is a go lads....knock yourselves out!"

    Admittedly, not a high hope....
    Could of and should of gone for a 48 hours extension, initially from the 21 to the 23thd June and then evaluated fully on 21st June weather to fully reopen 2 days later, allowing us to look at 2 weeks data without a half term in it and as a result been belter able to make predictions. the 2 day extension would still allow all the planed week end events to happen, weddings, concerts, music, theatres, and the busiest time for night clubs and so on. and would have allowed the Furlong scheme to start to disappear at the end of the month.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    Looks like somebody is having a nice time...

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1404818021965873156

    Those of us in the Red Wall would rather have a pie & peas supper.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,928
    edited June 2021
    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
    Deaths are in green. They are down week on week.

    But sure we'll be at hundreds or thousands a day within a month. 🤦‍♂️
    Even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day.
    Yes they were. This is the kind of bullshit that is in the Warwick University model. The solid black line of their "cautious" model predicts an expected death peak above the winter peak and the shading goes up to potentially 3000 deaths per day. 🤦‍♂️


    Their dashed line is optimistic, don’t they understand the concept of vaccination?
    @Philip_Thompson is deliberately misrepresenting them. The scenario using the default assumption regarding vaccine efficacy matches the government papers I linked. These plots are from a model that assumes a much lower efficacy.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    edited June 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BBC News Channel: talking endlessly about Martin Bashir. Sorry, I'm not interested.

    It’s the BBC’s favourite discussion topic - themselves.
    I think that's a bit unfair. If the BBC didn't cover the Bashir story properly and fully, the BBC's critics in the press, the HoC and on here would have a field day and the BBC would be accused of sweeping the scandal under the carpet. They're overdoing it to avoid the charge that they don't recognise how serious it is, agreed, but given the Select Committee hearing today they were bound to cover their backs.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    I would love - love - love for Covid to have “peaked” but my cursory reading is that whole “alpha” is collapsing, “delta” is coming up fast on its tail.

    Today, alpha’s collapse is informing the overall pattern, but shortly delta will drive that pattern back into exponential growth.

    I admit I am NOT looking at the numbers at all closely.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
    Deaths are in green. They are down week on week.

    But sure we'll be at hundreds or thousands a day within a month. 🤦‍♂️
    Even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day.
    Yes they were. This is the kind of bullshit that is in the Warwick University model. The solid black line of their "cautious" model predicts an expected death peak above the winter peak and the shading goes up to potentially 3000 deaths per day. 🤦‍♂️


    Their dashed line is optimistic, don’t they understand the concept of vaccination?
    @Philip_Thompson is deliberately misrepresenting them. The scenario using the default assumption regarding vaccine efficacy matches the government papers I linked. These plots are from a mode that assumes a much lower efficacy.
    I'm not misleading them.

    You said "even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day" but that's not true.

    Yes the central assumption is hundreds per day, which is in itself ridiculous, but worst case scenarios being considered are the ones I quoted. They're seriously considering a worst case scenario where deaths go higher than the January peak and upto 3000 per day in the shading.

    That's what is being considered "cautious".
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Grolsch join the ban - shame I used to drink that beer - no longer.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    I don’t know what GB News are doing, but posting 360p videos on YouTube, complete with the stutters of their own broadcast website it was being ripped from, is a major screwup.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=aSdqKfUdmHs

    I’m available to help them, remotely, for a bargain £1k a day.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,354
    Pulpstar said:

    Last tuesday reported was 6048, last wednesday 7540; tuesday before that 3165 -> 4330

    Tuesday to wednesday is where the big jumps have tended to happen by reported date. Today is 7673 I expect tommorow will be north of 8k, hopefully not by too much.

    Even a figure of 9 - 9,500 would not be that bad, showing a continued reduction in the rate of growth.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
    Deaths are in green. They are down week on week.

    But sure we'll be at hundreds or thousands a day within a month. 🤦‍♂️
    Even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day.
    Yes they were. This is the kind of bullshit that is in the Warwick University model. The solid black line of their "cautious" model predicts an expected death peak above the winter peak and the shading goes up to potentially 3000 deaths per day. 🤦‍♂️



    EDIT: This nonsense is from Page 13 of the Warwick University model: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/993358/s1288_Warwick_RoadMap_Step_4.pdf
    Look at Figure 2, that's the default assumption, which matches the government papers.
    Why would you consider a default assumption to be "the worst case scenarios".

    The worst case scenarios are the cautious scenarios being quoted and that's thousands per day dead. Preposterous.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    DavidL said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.

    It's a very sharp w-o-w fall in the inflation rate. Much more than I could ever hoped for. Into the 30s...

    Just noise?
    Right now there are members of SAGE modelling teams praying for a case surge. The evidence from Bolton, Bedford and Blackburn is they will be disappointed.

    Once can only hope there is anyone left in Government to point out the nonsense and invoke the 2 week break clause on the extension of restrictions.
    It seems much more likely to me that the delta variant is hitting the parameters of the unvaxxed, multigenerational households that it was seeded in and is finding spread in the more general population with their highish levels of vaccination more difficult. I certainly hope so.
    I think that's spot on: if there are six of you who live in a three bedroom terrace, and one of you returned from India with Delta, then all of you will get it. And if little Ahmed went around to his friends house, then that'll be 12 people who now have Delta.

    In less dense, less intergenerational, more vaccinated communities, spread is much much lower.

    If tomorrow's numbers are still at the 7,500 level we can all breath an enormous sigh of relief.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,928
    edited June 2021

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
    Deaths are in green. They are down week on week.

    But sure we'll be at hundreds or thousands a day within a month. 🤦‍♂️
    Even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day.
    Yes they were. This is the kind of bullshit that is in the Warwick University model. The solid black line of their "cautious" model predicts an expected death peak above the winter peak and the shading goes up to potentially 3000 deaths per day. 🤦‍♂️


    Their dashed line is optimistic, don’t they understand the concept of vaccination?
    @Philip_Thompson is deliberately misrepresenting them. The scenario using the default assumption regarding vaccine efficacy matches the government papers I linked. These plots are from a mode that assumes a much lower efficacy.
    I'm not misleading them.

    You said "even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day" but that's not true.

    Yes the central assumption is hundreds per day, which is in itself ridiculous, but worst case scenarios being considered are the ones I quoted. They're seriously considering a worst case scenario where deaths go higher than the January peak and upto 3000 per day in the shading.

    That's what is being considered "cautious".
    As far as I can tell it is an exercise to try to place uncertainties on their prediction, which is commonly done by adjusting the unknown/poorly-known variables in your model. That doesn't change the fact that this isn't their prediction, it's just the upper bounds of what they think is credible. Their central prediction is around 500/day. Note how the uncertainty on this prediction doesn't go above 1k/day.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    I would love - love - love for Covid to have “peaked” but my cursory reading is that whole “alpha” is collapsing, “delta” is coming up fast on its tail.

    Today, alpha’s collapse is informing the overall pattern, but shortly delta will drive that pattern back into exponential growth.

    I admit I am NOT looking at the numbers at all closely.

    This isn't a worry UK wise, Delta is overwhemingly dominant here, something like 99% of all cases.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    Anecdote report.

    I had lunch in the West End today.
    Restaurant was “moderately” busy - half full.
    Diners seemed to be very aged and crumbly.

    A year or so ago, the restaurant would have been full, and the diners would have been business-y types.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,759
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
    Deaths are in green. They are down week on week.

    But sure we'll be at hundreds or thousands a day within a month. 🤦‍♂️
    Even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day.
    Yes they were. This is the kind of bullshit that is in the Warwick University model. The solid black line of their "cautious" model predicts an expected death peak above the winter peak and the shading goes up to potentially 3000 deaths per day. 🤦‍♂️


    Their dashed line is optimistic, don’t they understand the concept of vaccination?
    @Philip_Thompson is deliberately misrepresenting them. The scenario using the default assumption regarding vaccine efficacy matches the government papers I linked. These plots are from a mode that assumes a much lower efficacy.
    Any set of models that seem to suggest no deaths (or few given the graph) by Xmas seems a bit suspect. The worst case at Xmas is definitely not near-zero deaths.


  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
    Deaths are in green. They are down week on week.

    But sure we'll be at hundreds or thousands a day within a month. 🤦‍♂️
    Even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day.
    Yes they were. This is the kind of bullshit that is in the Warwick University model. The solid black line of their "cautious" model predicts an expected death peak above the winter peak and the shading goes up to potentially 3000 deaths per day. 🤦‍♂️


    Their dashed line is optimistic, don’t they understand the concept of vaccination?
    @Philip_Thompson is deliberately misrepresenting them. The scenario using the default assumption regarding vaccine efficacy matches the government papers I linked. These plots are from a mode that assumes a much lower efficacy.
    I'm not misleading them.

    You said "even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day" but that's not true.

    Yes the central assumption is hundreds per day, which is in itself ridiculous, but worst case scenarios being considered are the ones I quoted. They're seriously considering a worst case scenario where deaths go higher than the January peak and upto 3000 per day in the shading.

    That's what is being considered "cautious".
    As far as I can tell it is an exercise to try to place uncertainties on their prediction, which is commonly done by adjusting the unknown/poorly-known variables in your model. That doesn't change the fact that this isn't their prediction, it's just the upper bounds of what they think is credible. Their central prediction is around 500/day.
    I never said it was their prediction, I said it was what they considered credible.

    3000 dead per day should be well beyond the upper bounds of what is considered credible and if it isn't then maybe you should recheck your assumptions.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134
    Floater said:

    Grolsch join the ban - shame I used to drink that beer - no longer.

    You're going to boycott everything that doesn't advertise on GB News?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    rcs1000 said:

    DavidL said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.

    It's a very sharp w-o-w fall in the inflation rate. Much more than I could ever hoped for. Into the 30s...

    Just noise?
    Right now there are members of SAGE modelling teams praying for a case surge. The evidence from Bolton, Bedford and Blackburn is they will be disappointed.

    Once can only hope there is anyone left in Government to point out the nonsense and invoke the 2 week break clause on the extension of restrictions.
    It seems much more likely to me that the delta variant is hitting the parameters of the unvaxxed, multigenerational households that it was seeded in and is finding spread in the more general population with their highish levels of vaccination more difficult. I certainly hope so.
    I think that's spot on: if there are six of you who live in a three bedroom terrace, and one of you returned from India with Delta, then all of you will get it. And if little Ahmed went around to his friends house, then that'll be 12 people who now have Delta.

    In less dense, less intergenerational, more vaccinated communities, spread is much much lower.

    If tomorrow's numbers are still at the 7,500 level we can all breath an enormous sigh of relief.
    Yes we're not heterogenous & fungible data points in an SEIR model.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,928
    edited June 2021



    I never said it was their prediction, I said it was what they considered credible.

    3000 dead per day should be well beyond the upper bounds of what is considered credible and if it isn't then maybe you should recheck your assumptions.

    OK, now we are going onto semantics. I don't think you even used the word credible before. The point is that the prediction of several thousand a day is well outside the confidence interval of their prediction, and the figure you used is part of an exercise to work out what effects the different assumptions have on the final figure.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Sandpit said:

    Andy_JS said:

    BBC News Channel: talking endlessly about Martin Bashir. Sorry, I'm not interested.

    It’s the BBC’s favourite discussion topic - themselves.
    I think that's a bit unfair. If the BBC didn't cover the Bashir story properly and fully, the BBC's critics in the press, the HoC and on here would have a field day and the BBC would be accused of sweeping the scandal under the carpet. They're overdoing it to avoid the charge that they don't recognise how serious it is, agreed, but given the Select Committee hearing today they were bound to cover their backs.
    Whenever the BBC are in the news, they always make it headline number one. It’s the best chance their staff have to shout about their employer in public, with no chance of themselves being in trouble for it.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    Today is freedom day in California.

    I think I shall leave my mask at home.

    (My kids are at sleep away camp in the middle of nowhere, and one third of the way through the week the restrictions are all removed. So they'll be wearing masks for a day and half and then all discarding them.)
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    felix said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.

    It's a very sharp w-o-w fall in the inflation rate. Much more than I could ever hoped for. Into the 30s...

    Just noise?
    Right now there are members of SAGE modelling teams praying for a case surge. The evidence from Bolton, Bedford and Blackburn is they will be disappointed.

    Once can only hope there is anyone left in Government to point out the nonsense and invoke the 2 week break clause on the extension of restrictions.
    If the surge doesn't happen I'd be very happy. If a short delay to further easing helps that so much the better.
    Check your privilege – 50,000 brides facing 'socially distanced' weddings...
    25,000 lesbian weddings?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    Anecdote report.

    I had lunch in the West End today.
    Restaurant was “moderately” busy - half full.
    Diners seemed to be very aged and crumbly.

    A year or so ago, the restaurant would have been full, and the diners would have been business-y types.

    Unlikely to be much change until September at the earliest as most commuters are still WFH
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,928
    Omnium said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
    Deaths are in green. They are down week on week.

    But sure we'll be at hundreds or thousands a day within a month. 🤦‍♂️
    Even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day.
    Yes they were. This is the kind of bullshit that is in the Warwick University model. The solid black line of their "cautious" model predicts an expected death peak above the winter peak and the shading goes up to potentially 3000 deaths per day. 🤦‍♂️


    Their dashed line is optimistic, don’t they understand the concept of vaccination?
    @Philip_Thompson is deliberately misrepresenting them. The scenario using the default assumption regarding vaccine efficacy matches the government papers I linked. These plots are from a mode that assumes a much lower efficacy.
    Any set of models that seem to suggest no deaths (or few given the graph) by Xmas seems a bit suspect. The worst case at Xmas is definitely not near-zero deaths.


    Look, they are having a hard enough time predicting a few days ahead, and you want them to predict six months ahead?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    RobD said:



    I never said it was their prediction, I said it was what they considered credible.

    3000 dead per day should be well beyond the upper bounds of what is considered credible and if it isn't then maybe you should recheck your assumptions.

    OK, now we are going onto semantics. I don't think you even used the word credible before. The point is that the prediction of several thousand a day is well outside the confidence interval of their prediction, and the figure you used is part of an exercise to work out what effects the different assumptions have on the final figure.
    *Sigh*

    Originally I said hundreds or thousands, because their predictions range from the hundreds (central predictions) to the thousands in the worst case scenarios.

    You said even in the worst case scenario they're not considering thousands dead.

    I showed that they are. They're considering nearly 2000 and potentially 3000 dead per day in their worst case "cautious" models.

    So yes their predictions is it will be in either hundreds or thousands. Anything else is nitpicking.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Most voters think lifting restrictions on 19th June is 'about right.'

    38% About right
    26% Too soon
    19% Too late

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1404826704242216968?s=20
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,928

    RobD said:



    I never said it was their prediction, I said it was what they considered credible.

    3000 dead per day should be well beyond the upper bounds of what is considered credible and if it isn't then maybe you should recheck your assumptions.

    OK, now we are going onto semantics. I don't think you even used the word credible before. The point is that the prediction of several thousand a day is well outside the confidence interval of their prediction, and the figure you used is part of an exercise to work out what effects the different assumptions have on the final figure.
    *Sigh*

    Originally I said hundreds or thousands, because their predictions range from the hundreds (central predictions) to the thousands in the worst case scenarios.

    You said even in the worst case scenario they're not considering thousands dead.

    I showed that they are. They're considering nearly 2000 and potentially 3000 dead per day in their worst case "cautious" models.

    So yes their predictions is it will be in either hundreds or thousands. Anything else is nitpicking.
    No, their prediction is published in both the government document I linked, and in Figure 2 of the paper you linked. The rest of it feeds into how large the uncertainty on that prediction is, which at the upper interval is below a thousand a day.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,958

    Looks like somebody is having a nice time...

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1404818021965873156

    Wouldn't it be an amazing coincidence if he bumped into a PBer who also happened to be there?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    felix said:

    felix said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.

    It's a very sharp w-o-w fall in the inflation rate. Much more than I could ever hoped for. Into the 30s...

    Just noise?
    Right now there are members of SAGE modelling teams praying for a case surge. The evidence from Bolton, Bedford and Blackburn is they will be disappointed.

    Once can only hope there is anyone left in Government to point out the nonsense and invoke the 2 week break clause on the extension of restrictions.
    If the surge doesn't happen I'd be very happy. If a short delay to further easing helps that so much the better.
    Check your privilege – 50,000 brides facing 'socially distanced' weddings...
    God you are an idiot at times. I have had one AZN jab, 67 with high BP and other health issues. I must wait till the end of July for the second. So, not to put too fine a point on it, you can shove your brides where the sun doesn't shine. Moron.
    I thought you lived in Spain? In which case, the weddings / 21 June / 19 July consequences don't affect you?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    HYUFD said:

    Most voters think lifting restrictions on 19th June is 'about right.'

    38% About right
    26% Too soon
    19% Too late

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1404826704242216968?s=20

    JULY
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    HYUFD said:

    Most voters think lifting restrictions on 19th June is 'about right.'

    38% About right
    26% Too soon
    19% Too late

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1404826704242216968?s=20

    July I assume
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    Looks like somebody is having a nice time...

    https://twitter.com/thomasknox/status/1404818021965873156

    Wouldn't it be an amazing coincidence if he bumped into a PBer who also happened to be there?
    Byron, the transsexual actor from Wimbledon?
    Or was it LadyG, the sapphic newt painter?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    felix said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.

    It's a very sharp w-o-w fall in the inflation rate. Much more than I could ever hoped for. Into the 30s...

    Just noise?
    Right now there are members of SAGE modelling teams praying for a case surge. The evidence from Bolton, Bedford and Blackburn is they will be disappointed.

    Once can only hope there is anyone left in Government to point out the nonsense and invoke the 2 week break clause on the extension of restrictions.
    If the surge doesn't happen I'd be very happy. If a short delay to further easing helps that so much the better.
    Check your privilege – 50,000 brides facing 'socially distanced' weddings...
    25,000 lesbian weddings?

    Nope, 50,000 weddings in the next four weeks.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    HYUFD said:

    Anecdote report.

    I had lunch in the West End today.
    Restaurant was “moderately” busy - half full.
    Diners seemed to be very aged and crumbly.

    A year or so ago, the restaurant would have been full, and the diners would have been business-y types.

    Unlikely to be much change until September at the earliest as most commuters are still WFH
    Yep - we will not be back in office until at the earliest - 19th September
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    RobD said:

    Omnium said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Rate of increase continuing to slow for reported cases in England.
    Very encouraging. That's six days on the trot that the increase in the sum of 7-days cases has fallen.
    (For the avoidance of doubt: cases haven't fallen. The speed at which they're increasing has fallen. Second derivative stuff)

    Exactly, because vaccination has broken the link to the exponential growth we saw in previous waves.

    A good graph for someone to do would be “Doubling time”, the tertiary derivative.
    Deaths are in green. They are down week on week.

    But sure we'll be at hundreds or thousands a day within a month. 🤦‍♂️
    Even in the worst case scenarios they weren't predicting thousands a day.
    Yes they were. This is the kind of bullshit that is in the Warwick University model. The solid black line of their "cautious" model predicts an expected death peak above the winter peak and the shading goes up to potentially 3000 deaths per day. 🤦‍♂️


    Their dashed line is optimistic, don’t they understand the concept of vaccination?
    @Philip_Thompson is deliberately misrepresenting them. The scenario using the default assumption regarding vaccine efficacy matches the government papers I linked. These plots are from a mode that assumes a much lower efficacy.
    Any set of models that seem to suggest no deaths (or few given the graph) by Xmas seems a bit suspect. The worst case at Xmas is definitely not near-zero deaths.


    Look, they are having a hard enough time predicting a few days ahead, and you want them to predict six months ahead?
    I think there's still a high degree of seasonality in Covid driven I reckon by vitamin D deficiency in the winter months. People with darker skin suffer from this even in the summer in the UK - which is probably also a factor in the delta spread being initially so high.

    I think the Gov't is a bit reluctant to push a Vit D message mind as it's a bit of a favourite of antivaxxers who think they can get away with just taking vitamin D and no vaccinations which is ridiculous.

    The truth is you probably want to be both vaccinated and have good vit D levels.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Interesting how many PBers – and much of the public – are in favour of restrictions that affect other people.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited June 2021

    felix said:

    felix said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.

    It's a very sharp w-o-w fall in the inflation rate. Much more than I could ever hoped for. Into the 30s...

    Just noise?
    Right now there are members of SAGE modelling teams praying for a case surge. The evidence from Bolton, Bedford and Blackburn is they will be disappointed.

    Once can only hope there is anyone left in Government to point out the nonsense and invoke the 2 week break clause on the extension of restrictions.
    If the surge doesn't happen I'd be very happy. If a short delay to further easing helps that so much the better.
    Check your privilege – 50,000 brides facing 'socially distanced' weddings...
    God you are an idiot at times. I have had one AZN jab, 67 with high BP and other health issues. I must wait till the end of July for the second. So, not to put too fine a point on it, you can shove your brides where the sun doesn't shine. Moron.
    I thought you lived in Spain? In which case, the weddings / 21 June / 19 July consequences don't affect you?
    He lives in Spain, and is two months away from his vaccine immunity - as the country indicates it’s desparate to attract millions of unvaccinated teens and twenties from all over Europe to party in nightclubs.

    If I were 67 and facing this, I’d be sh!t-scared too.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,001
    North West continues to look as if it's flattened out.

    It's a massive "if", but if the rate by which the cases growth is increasing continues to drop the way it has been, we could max out around the 21st of June on reported cases, which would be a colossal coincidence.
    (At 7000-7500 cases per day for England; 8500-9000 cases per day for the entire UK).
    That would equate to something in the region of 250-300 hospitalisations per day for England (300-350 for the UK) and a maximum hospital occupancy of around 1800-2200 for England; 2000-2500 for the UK.

    Totally a SWAG figure, if that, but I'd take that right now for the peak.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241
    Floater said:

    Grolsch join the ban - shame I used to drink that beer - no longer.

    What exactly do they have against Farage? Or is it the same as my beer-drinking acquaintances who refuse to step into a Wetherspoons because Tim Martin is a "gammon"?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    RobD said:

    RobD said:



    I never said it was their prediction, I said it was what they considered credible.

    3000 dead per day should be well beyond the upper bounds of what is considered credible and if it isn't then maybe you should recheck your assumptions.

    OK, now we are going onto semantics. I don't think you even used the word credible before. The point is that the prediction of several thousand a day is well outside the confidence interval of their prediction, and the figure you used is part of an exercise to work out what effects the different assumptions have on the final figure.
    *Sigh*

    Originally I said hundreds or thousands, because their predictions range from the hundreds (central predictions) to the thousands in the worst case scenarios.

    You said even in the worst case scenario they're not considering thousands dead.

    I showed that they are. They're considering nearly 2000 and potentially 3000 dead per day in their worst case "cautious" models.

    So yes their predictions is it will be in either hundreds or thousands. Anything else is nitpicking.
    No, their prediction is published in both the government document I linked, and in Figure 2 of the paper you linked. The rest of it feeds into how large the uncertainty on that prediction is, which at the upper interval is below a thousand a day.
    In their central assumption yes, not their worst case assumption they're considering. The SAGE summary is the central assumption, but the other scenarios are there on the government website as what is being considered.

    Anyway I don't see what the point of this is anymore. My point was it is preposterous to be considering 500 dead per day as a central assumption, let alone thousands as a "cautious" one. I don't see why we need to keep going around in circles here.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    HYUFD said:

    Most voters think lifting restrictions on 19th June is 'about right.'

    38% About right
    26% Too soon
    19% Too late

    https://twitter.com/YouGov/status/1404826704242216968?s=20

    July I assume
    Yes, apologies 19th July
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,402
    Sandpit said:

    I don’t know what GB News are doing, but posting 360p videos on YouTube, complete with the stutters of their own broadcast website it was being ripped from, is a major screwup.

    https://youtube.com/watch?v=aSdqKfUdmHs

    I’m available to help them, remotely, for a bargain £1k a day.

    It is bewildering.
    Over the lockdown I have learned, from a standing start, as a reasonably technophobic 50+ yo, to do the cameras and sound mixing of religious services broadcast live over several platforms and recorded for later use. All interactive with real time chat facility.
    It is quite laughably easy for one person with almost no knowledge these days.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Thread:

    The B.1.617.2 (delta) lineage is now globally distributed. It has reached high % in some Asian countries (India, Nepal, Vietnam) and the UK (~90%), and is at ~10% in the US. Though, it remains at low % in many places, including in most of continental Europe (examples below).
    1/.....

    ....It is thus likely we will see B.1.617.2 outbreaks and epidemics in Europe in the future. That said, given its intrinsic transmissibility advantage over B.1.1.7 (alpha) of ~40-60% estimated in the UK, it is intriguing those haven't happened yet in continental Europe.


    https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1404829157515620356?s=20
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited June 2021

    Interesting how many PBers – and much of the public – are in favour of restrictions that affect other people.

    Like taxes....loads of people say they are happy for higher taxes to fund x,y and z, until they realise it will include themselves paying them.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Sandpit said:

    felix said:

    felix said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    7th day in a row that reported cases are within 500 of 7650.

    Remarkably flat considering we're told it's about to hit 250,000 in a few weeks.

    It's a very sharp w-o-w fall in the inflation rate. Much more than I could ever hoped for. Into the 30s...

    Just noise?
    Right now there are members of SAGE modelling teams praying for a case surge. The evidence from Bolton, Bedford and Blackburn is they will be disappointed.

    Once can only hope there is anyone left in Government to point out the nonsense and invoke the 2 week break clause on the extension of restrictions.
    If the surge doesn't happen I'd be very happy. If a short delay to further easing helps that so much the better.
    Check your privilege – 50,000 brides facing 'socially distanced' weddings...
    God you are an idiot at times. I have had one AZN jab, 67 with high BP and other health issues. I must wait till the end of July for the second. So, not to put too fine a point on it, you can shove your brides where the sun doesn't shine. Moron.
    I thought you lived in Spain? In which case, the weddings / 21 June / 19 July consequences don't affect you?
    He lives in Spain, and is two months away from his vaccine immunity - as the country indicates it’s desparate to attract millions of unvaccinated teens and twenties from all over Europe to party in nightclubs.

    If I were 67 and facing this, I’d be sh!t-scared too.
    lol now that is madness, opening up fully before 65+ are fully vaxxed. It also shows just how well our rollout is doing compared to the EU despite the recent PR disaster.
This discussion has been closed.