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If uniform national swing (UNS) applies then the Tories will make it three by-election wins out of t

SystemSystem Posts: 12,219
edited June 2021 in General
imageIf uniform national swing (UNS) applies then the Tories will make it three by-election wins out of three – politicalbetting.com

So far we have not had any opinion polls on the next two Westminster by-elections – Chesham & Amersham (June 17th) and Batley & Spen (July 1st) but in each case the Tories are firm odds-on favourites in the betting.

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Comments

  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591
    1st
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021
    2nd.....as in the jab I will be getting next week.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    3rd - as will be the jabs we get in the autumn.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    4th... as in rate of our Covid performance...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038
    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,640
    HYUFD said:

    I expect the Tories to hold Chesham and Amersham with a reduced majority and Jo Cox's sister to narrowly hold Batley and Spen

    Absolutely correct.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,361
    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    Didn't someone post that it was the 4th highest monday on record? I think there has been a messaging fail here, but to say it is pathetic or derisory when we are opening to all over 18 this week is nonsense.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038
    On topic the sub Green levels of polling we are currently seeing for the Lib Dems are unlikely to be fully reflected in the by election where so much effort has been expended so I am not sure that UNS tells us much. My expectation is a Conservative hold here with a reduced majority on a lower turnout.

    If we don't see more than UNS in the Lib Dem vote then we will be back wondering if the liberty bird is once again a dead parrot. I think we will.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    FPT FrancisUrquhart and others were reporting on expectations that the UK's vaccine rollout is forecast to slow down soon. Of course it should, its a brilliant job that it hasn't yet.

    The American vaccine rollout has slowed down as they've ran out of people to vaccinate. We're about to do the same, all over 18s are due to be eligible for vaccines by later this week and in many areas that's already the case. Near to me there are vaccine centres where all over 18s can walk in, no appointment necessary, to get a Pfizer jab.

    Once its eligible to everyone, then until we open it to children the NHS will begin to run out of people to jab. Plus as first doses drop towards zero we're about to hit the point where the scheduled second jabs will fall off a cliff to about 100k to 200k per day too.

    Its great that our vaccine curve hasn't slowed down yet unlike the USA, but by next we'll reach the point in the curve were Israel's doses rapidly ground to a halt.
  • VompVomp Posts: 36
    edited June 2021
    MattW said:

    Vomp said:

    Ireland:

    More than 400,000 people who are waiting for a second dose of the AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine have been told they cannot travel abroad.

    The “vaccine bonus” for those who are a month on from their first AstraZeneca jab does not involve foreign travel, the updated advice from the HSE has warned.

    People in their 60s, and a significant number of those with underlying conditions, have been left waiting for a second dose of the vaccine, which will take at least eight weeks, but may be even longer for many.


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/foreign-travel-ban-for-400000-with-only-one-astrazeneca-vaccine-dose-40539824.html

    So it's Irexit then? The EU Digital Covid Certificate (which doesn't have to be digital) will allow EU citizens to travel throughout the EU with a negative test result. It won't require vaccination. The link on "HSE" in that Independent article just goes to an index of other Independent articles.

    This is what marchers should be demanding: Britain signing up to the DCC or introducing a fully compatible equivalent. Interesting that it's due to become operational on 19 July.

    London seems like a desert without visitors from EU countries.
    With Delta about to hit, the encouragement to allow non-vaccinated the run of Schengen from July 1 (unless it has changed) is deranged.
    The certificate is for travel throughout the EU, not just in the Schengen zone.

    "Being vaccinated will not be a pre-condition to travel. All EU citizens have a fundamental right to free movement in the EU and this applies regardless of whether they are vaccinated or not. The same principle applies to the rights of non-EU nationals staying or residing in the EU Member States and who have the right to travel to other Member States."

    ...which presumably includes British citizens on holiday, who if unvaccinated hopefully will be able to get tested by EU-compliant agencies in Britain but if that's not sorted out then on arrival at Calais, Rotterdam, Orly, or wherever.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    Didn't someone post that it was the 4th highest monday on record? I think there has been a messaging fail here, but to say it is pathetic or derisory when we are opening to all over 18 this week is nonsense.
    The U.K. uptake has been fantastic, and there’s still more demand than supply. Contrast with Israel, which got stuck at 120% (of about 160% eligible) and the USA (dropping off quickly at 100% already, despite every pharmacy and clinic having excess supply.

    UAE has today opened up vaccines to people stuck here and overstaying visas, tourists will be next - at which point half of Russia and Africa will probably turn up!

  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
    Why would we have a higher rate of vaccination?

    We've got the highest rate of any major nation on the planet, we haven't seen a slowdown in vaccinations and our rollout is nearly finished. It finishes (by metric of offering it to everybody) this week which will be about 6 weeks ahead of schedule.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175
    I suppose I'd expect a hold at C & A on Thursday but it's another 2 weeks for B & S so very difficult to say on that one.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
    Exactly. And the delta variant will either be here in July or more likely have been replaced by something even more infectious. It is the level of immunity from vaccination that is key.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,462
    DavidL said:

    On topic the sub Green levels of polling we are currently seeing for the Lib Dems are unlikely to be fully reflected in the by election where so much effort has been expended so I am not sure that UNS tells us much. My expectation is a Conservative hold here with a reduced majority on a lower turnout.

    If we don't see more than UNS in the Lib Dem vote then we will be back wondering if the liberty bird is once again a dead parrot. I think we will.

    Has Labour been written off too soon? Labour can't win but can probably block the LibDems. Under electoral genius Jeremy Corbyn, Labour was second in 2017 with 20 per cent of the C&A vote.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
    Exactly. And the delta variant will either be here in July or more likely have been replaced by something even more infectious. It is the level of immunity from vaccination that is key.
    So why would you call vaccinations today derisory when its one of the highest for a Monday (announced on a Tueday) on record?

    It seems some people want there to be an acceleration, when in fact a slowdown is due and its good we've not hit it yet.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,361

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
    No delta variant (or more delay in seeding it) and we wouldn't have delayed.

    In 4 weeks time, we should have another 10-14m extra doses in arms.

    To achieve that, without the 4 weeks, we would have needed to be vaccinating about twice as fast over the previous 4 weeks. That seems a pretty tall order.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,038

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    Didn't someone post that it was the 4th highest monday on record? I think there has been a messaging fail here, but to say it is pathetic or derisory when we are opening to all over 18 this week is nonsense.
    According to @FrancisUrquhart on the last thread it was 354k. That is indeed derisory.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592
    Just seen the local infection rates on https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

    The increase in infections in the week leading up to yesterday is 740%..
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591
    Mortimer said:

    Managed to rebook my jab for 9 weeks from the first dose, today. Thrilled!

    On the basis of this decided to take the plunge and am now 4 weeks earlier than my previous 2nd dose - many thanks
  • VompVomp Posts: 36
    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
    Exactly. And the delta variant will either be here in July or more likely have been replaced by something even more infectious. It is the level of immunity from vaccination that is key.
    What is the estimated % vaccination that will give herd immunity? A figure of 95% is quoted for measles which is far more infectious than SARS.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,253
    Bridesmaids in masks?

    Bad news for Best Men, who are at risk of trying to get off with an ugly bridesmaid.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,142
    maaarsh said:

    Mortimer said:

    Managed to rebook my jab for 9 weeks from the first dose, today. Thrilled!

    On the basis of this decided to take the plunge and am now 4 weeks earlier than my previous 2nd dose - many thanks
    I've told all my mates in their 30s - so far all have been able to bring it forward.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    I just saw the Nicholas Watt footage& have to agree with @david_herdson - what were the dozens of police doing just standing there? Were they waiting for him to be assaulted before they stepped in? Crazy

    Can people just walk up to you in the street and aggressively hurl abuse at you, right before a policeman’s eyes, and not be apprehended or warned?
  • JohnOJohnO Posts: 4,291
    Survation

    Cons 42 (+1)
    Lab 35 (+2)
    LD 9
    Green 5 (-1)
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    Didn't someone post that it was the 4th highest monday on record? I think there has been a messaging fail here, but to say it is pathetic or derisory when we are opening to all over 18 this week is nonsense.
    According to @FrancisUrquhart on the last thread it was 354k. That is indeed derisory.
    On what terms? There is a weekly cycle as we have never had a 7 days a week system. Best approach would be to look at weekly rates.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    eek said:

    Just seen the local infection rates on https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

    The increase in infections in the week leading up to yesterday is 740%..

    Presumably small numbers? I.e. from a couple of cases, to say 20 or 30?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,689
    HYUFD said:

    I expect the Tories to hold Chesham and Amersham with a reduced majority and Jo Cox's sister to narrowly hold Batley and Spen

    Are you betting on Labour for B&S then, H? - it's a nice price.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,082
    FPT - what are people's views on what is happening with the Delta variant in Europe? Is it there yet and just not being unearthed because they're not doing the sequencing? If so, are they three weeks behind a surge in cases? Is there comparative slowness to vaccinate going to be a problem? Or is Delta a) overblown or b) going to be cancelled out by vaccinations and seasonality?
    My view is the latter. But it is not an informed view.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    " But if that is not the case and the percentage majority is down to single figures then Jo Cox’s sister, the LAB candidate in the Yorkshire seat, might hold it."

    Is it perhaps slightly demeaning to refer to the candidate in B&S namelessly as "Jo Cox's sister" ?

    I am sure there is more to Kim Leadbetter than her sororal relationship.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    Didn't someone post that it was the 4th highest monday on record? I think there has been a messaging fail here, but to say it is pathetic or derisory when we are opening to all over 18 this week is nonsense.
    According to @FrancisUrquhart on the last thread it was 354k. That is indeed derisory.
    On what terms? There is a weekly cycle as we have never had a 7 days a week system. Best approach would be to look at weekly rates.
    The 7 day rolling average is 3,234,405
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    Didn't someone post that it was the 4th highest monday on record? I think there has been a messaging fail here, but to say it is pathetic or derisory when we are opening to all over 18 this week is nonsense.
    According to @FrancisUrquhart on the last thread it was 354k. That is indeed derisory.
    For a monday its a fairly standard figure.

    Interestingly too we're now past the point where we've overtaken the timegap on the slowdown of first doses.

    19/4 (eight weeks ago) we only did 99k first doses.

    For a few weeks before then we did less than 100k per day.
    For most of the time since then we did around 130k per day.

    So for every day we do a quarter of a million second doses now, we'll be doing two days worth of first doses.

    So we're either going to need to keep shrinking the timegap between first and second, or there's inevitably going be a massive slowdown in eligible second doses, just as we are running out of first doses being possible.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196
    Vomp said:

    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
    Exactly. And the delta variant will either be here in July or more likely have been replaced by something even more infectious. It is the level of immunity from vaccination that is key.
    What is the estimated % vaccination that will give herd immunity? A figure of 95% is quoted for measles which is far more infectious than SARS.
    The problem is working out the *anti-transmission* effectiveness of the vaccines

    We know they are very very effective against hospitalisation and death. They are less so against transmitting the virus.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Vomp said:

    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
    Exactly. And the delta variant will either be here in July or more likely have been replaced by something even more infectious. It is the level of immunity from vaccination that is key.
    What is the estimated % vaccination that will give herd immunity? A figure of 95% is quoted for measles which is far more infectious than SARS.
    The problem is working out the *anti-transmission* effectiveness of the vaccines

    We know they are very very effective against hospitalisation and death. They are less so against transmitting the virus.
    Sp what if people get infected if they don't get hospitalised or die though?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    Cookie said:

    FPT - what are people's views on what is happening with the Delta variant in Europe? Is it there yet and just not being unearthed because they're not doing the sequencing? If so, are they three weeks behind a surge in cases? Is there comparative slowness to vaccinate going to be a problem? Or is Delta a) overblown or b) going to be cancelled out by vaccinations and seasonality?
    My view is the latter. But it is not an informed view.

    I would not be surprised to see some places get large spikes, but we had a particular problem with a large Indian population travelling and returning to seed particular inner city locations, with pre-existing lower vaccination rates and possibly also more inter-generational household, rapidly infecting school ages, which then spread like wildfire. It maybe that our situation was unique, and other places may get away with it, a bit like how the SW of England is 'getting away with it' at the moment (may not last).
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    Mortimer said:

    maaarsh said:

    Mortimer said:

    Managed to rebook my jab for 9 weeks from the first dose, today. Thrilled!

    On the basis of this decided to take the plunge and am now 4 weeks earlier than my previous 2nd dose - many thanks
    I've told all my mates in their 30s - so far all have been able to bring it forward.
    I’m on Moderna, second jab mid-July.
    Is it worth my trying to re-book?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,592

    eek said:

    Just seen the local infection rates on https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

    The increase in infections in the week leading up to yesterday is 740%..

    Presumably small numbers? I.e. from a couple of cases, to say 20 or 30?
    From 5 to 42. But that is a hell of an increase which shows either all 5 people met a lot of others, the numbers weren't correct last week or some combination in between.

    While it's probably an anomaly you can see (assuming things are similar elsewhere) why we aren't opening up on Monday.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Cookie said:

    FPT - what are people's views on what is happening with the Delta variant in Europe? Is it there yet and just not being unearthed because they're not doing the sequencing? If so, are they three weeks behind a surge in cases? Is there comparative slowness to vaccinate going to be a problem? Or is Delta a) overblown or b) going to be cancelled out by vaccinations and seasonality?
    My view is the latter. But it is not an informed view.

    My uninformed view is that they’re a few weeks behind the UK, but with a much lower vaccination rate and more encouragement to travel and take holidays. August could be utter carnage. Same goes for USA.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699

    Mortimer said:

    maaarsh said:

    Mortimer said:

    Managed to rebook my jab for 9 weeks from the first dose, today. Thrilled!

    On the basis of this decided to take the plunge and am now 4 weeks earlier than my previous 2nd dose - many thanks
    I've told all my mates in their 30s - so far all have been able to bring it forward.
    I’m on Moderna, second jab mid-July.
    Is it worth my trying to re-book?
    Try and see.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021
    https://hindenburgresearch.com/draftkings/

    I brilliantly reearched piece....aside from draftkings itself, contained in that article, it looks like some premier league clubs and other sports have taken money from the Triads and other shady groups.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,699
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Just seen the local infection rates on https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

    The increase in infections in the week leading up to yesterday is 740%..

    Presumably small numbers? I.e. from a couple of cases, to say 20 or 30?
    From 5 to 42. But that is a hell of an increase which shows either all 5 people met a lot of others, the numbers weren't correct last week or some combination in between.

    While it's probably an anomaly you can see (assuming things are similar elsewhere) why we aren't opening up on Monday.
    It does seem very transmissible among the unvaccinated (such as school age children). Worth looking at the ages of the cases if possible,
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319

    Mortimer said:

    maaarsh said:

    Mortimer said:

    Managed to rebook my jab for 9 weeks from the first dose, today. Thrilled!

    On the basis of this decided to take the plunge and am now 4 weeks earlier than my previous 2nd dose - many thanks
    I've told all my mates in their 30s - so far all have been able to bring it forward.
    I’m on Moderna, second jab mid-July.
    Is it worth my trying to re-book?
    Try and see.
    Worried I’ll lose my slot, or be sent to some remote wildnerness...like Zone 4 or something.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,253
    isam said:

    I just saw the Nicholas Watt footage& have to agree with @david_herdson - what were the dozens of police doing just standing there? Were they waiting for him to be assaulted before they stepped in? Crazy

    Can people just walk up to you in the street and aggressively hurl abuse at you, right before a policeman’s eyes, and not be apprehended or warned?

    If they'd used the wrong pronoun they would have been in the back of the van faster than you can say "self-identify".
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    Mortimer said:

    Managed to rebook my jab for 9 weeks from the first dose, today. Thrilled!

    Thanks for posting this. I was told 8-10 weeks after my first but the system wasn't offering anything earlier than 11 weeks. Now it has allowed me to book 8 weeks after the first. :)
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,361
    rkrkrk said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
    No delta variant (or more delay in seeding it) and we wouldn't have delayed.

    In 4 weeks time, we should have another 10-14m extra doses in arms.

    To achieve that, without the 4 weeks, we would have needed to be vaccinating about twice as fast over the previous 4 weeks. That seems a pretty tall order.
    Hmm... actually looking back at this -> I don't think this is a fair comparison to draw... the virus is growing over the 4 weeks... so the equivalent impact of having 4 weeks extra is less than magically having 4 weeks extra doses today.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021

    Mortimer said:

    maaarsh said:

    Mortimer said:

    Managed to rebook my jab for 9 weeks from the first dose, today. Thrilled!

    On the basis of this decided to take the plunge and am now 4 weeks earlier than my previous 2nd dose - many thanks
    I've told all my mates in their 30s - so far all have been able to bring it forward.
    I’m on Moderna, second jab mid-July.
    Is it worth my trying to re-book?
    I was exactly the same as you, Moderna / Mid July. Tried to rebook 2 weeks ago no joy, did it last night, straight in next week.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,319
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    FPT - what are people's views on what is happening with the Delta variant in Europe? Is it there yet and just not being unearthed because they're not doing the sequencing? If so, are they three weeks behind a surge in cases? Is there comparative slowness to vaccinate going to be a problem? Or is Delta a) overblown or b) going to be cancelled out by vaccinations and seasonality?
    My view is the latter. But it is not an informed view.

    My uninformed view is that they’re a few weeks behind the UK, but with a much lower vaccination rate and more encouragement to travel and take holidays. August could be utter carnage. Same goes for USA.
    With the execration of Italy? they don’t have notable Indian expatriate communities, so they are a few or maybe several weeks behind us.

    They are effectively - all countries are, now - playing a race between virus and vaccination.

    One country I don’t get is Japan.
    They maintained low rates seemingly without too much effort. Elderly population, too.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    https://hindenburgresearch.com/draftkings/

    I brilliantly reearched piece....aside from draftkings itself, contained in that article, it looks like some premier league clubs and other sports have taken money from the Triads and other shady groups.

    Can they do Football Index, as their next research project?
  • jonny83jonny83 Posts: 1,270

    Vomp said:

    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
    Exactly. And the delta variant will either be here in July or more likely have been replaced by something even more infectious. It is the level of immunity from vaccination that is key.
    What is the estimated % vaccination that will give herd immunity? A figure of 95% is quoted for measles which is far more infectious than SARS.
    The problem is working out the *anti-transmission* effectiveness of the vaccines

    We know they are very very effective against hospitalisation and death. They are less so against transmitting the virus.
    Sp what if people get infected if they don't get hospitalised or die though?
    Then you have the issue around Long Covid and it's future impact on our Health Services.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    Sandpit said:

    https://hindenburgresearch.com/draftkings/

    I brilliantly reearched piece....aside from draftkings itself, contained in that article, it looks like some premier league clubs and other sports have taken money from the Triads and other shady groups.

    Can they do Football Index, as their next research project?
    Definitely some seriously shady shit with them.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196
    edited June 2021

    Vomp said:

    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
    Exactly. And the delta variant will either be here in July or more likely have been replaced by something even more infectious. It is the level of immunity from vaccination that is key.
    What is the estimated % vaccination that will give herd immunity? A figure of 95% is quoted for measles which is far more infectious than SARS.
    The problem is working out the *anti-transmission* effectiveness of the vaccines

    We know they are very very effective against hospitalisation and death. They are less so against transmitting the virus.
    Sp what if people get infected if they don't get hospitalised or die though?
    If the virus doesn't die out, but continues to bounce around, it will get to those who are vulnerable. This will mean more hospitalisations and deaths. AKA no herd immunity.

    It is surprisingly hard to work out the transmission numbers, it seems.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,175

    Cookie said:

    FPT - what are people's views on what is happening with the Delta variant in Europe? Is it there yet and just not being unearthed because they're not doing the sequencing? If so, are they three weeks behind a surge in cases? Is there comparative slowness to vaccinate going to be a problem? Or is Delta a) overblown or b) going to be cancelled out by vaccinations and seasonality?
    My view is the latter. But it is not an informed view.

    I would not be surprised to see some places get large spikes, but we had a particular problem with a large Indian population travelling and returning to seed particular inner city locations, with pre-existing lower vaccination rates and possibly also more inter-generational household, rapidly infecting school ages, which then spread like wildfire. It maybe that our situation was unique, and other places may get away with it, a bit like how the SW of England is 'getting away with it' at the moment (may not last).

    It is certainly in Spain - with community transmission in Madrid. The Spanish data overall is good but I think the July and August tourist rush both internal and external is a real danger - there are many millions (me included) who will not be second jabbed before the end of July and most of the 60-70 age group are awaiting second jabs of AZN. Meanwhile they are just starting on the under 40s so there is a huge pool of younger people who will head to the beaches largely unjabbed in the next few weeks.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    edited June 2021

    Vomp said:

    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
    Exactly. And the delta variant will either be here in July or more likely have been replaced by something even more infectious. It is the level of immunity from vaccination that is key.
    What is the estimated % vaccination that will give herd immunity? A figure of 95% is quoted for measles which is far more infectious than SARS.
    The problem is working out the *anti-transmission* effectiveness of the vaccines

    We know they are very very effective against hospitalisation and death. They are less so against transmitting the virus.
    Slight tickle in your throat ? Head out to an antivax protest today :D
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,253

    Mortimer said:

    maaarsh said:

    Mortimer said:

    Managed to rebook my jab for 9 weeks from the first dose, today. Thrilled!

    On the basis of this decided to take the plunge and am now 4 weeks earlier than my previous 2nd dose - many thanks
    I've told all my mates in their 30s - so far all have been able to bring it forward.
    I’m on Moderna, second jab mid-July.
    Is it worth my trying to re-book?
    Try and see.
    Worried I’ll lose my slot, or be sent to some remote wildnerness...like Zone 4 or something.
    That's the problem with the system. You can't take a peek to see what the options are before you cancel.

    Hence I stuck with my 11-week, after work slot.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    jonny83 said:

    Vomp said:

    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
    Exactly. And the delta variant will either be here in July or more likely have been replaced by something even more infectious. It is the level of immunity from vaccination that is key.
    What is the estimated % vaccination that will give herd immunity? A figure of 95% is quoted for measles which is far more infectious than SARS.
    The problem is working out the *anti-transmission* effectiveness of the vaccines

    We know they are very very effective against hospitalisation and death. They are less so against transmitting the virus.
    Sp what if people get infected if they don't get hospitalised or die though?
    Then you have the issue around Long Covid and it's future impact on our Health Services.
    The vaccines highly likely stop most of that.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021

    Mortimer said:

    maaarsh said:

    Mortimer said:

    Managed to rebook my jab for 9 weeks from the first dose, today. Thrilled!

    On the basis of this decided to take the plunge and am now 4 weeks earlier than my previous 2nd dose - many thanks
    I've told all my mates in their 30s - so far all have been able to bring it forward.
    I’m on Moderna, second jab mid-July.
    Is it worth my trying to re-book?
    Try and see.
    Worried I’ll lose my slot, or be sent to some remote wildnerness...like Zone 4 or something.
    That's the problem with the system. You can't take a peek to see what the options are before you cancel.

    Hence I stuck with my 11-week, after work slot.
    Just do it in the middle of the night, nobody is going to be rebooking then.

    Also, i found huge availability, that wasn't there 2 weeks ago. It was as if the system was trying to give me every possible option to get done. 2 weeks ago, it was my local hub or a 2hr drive and it was you have to come on a particular day.

    When i rebooked yesterday, it was literally come any day, any time, and if you don't want to local hub, here is a load of other close options.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417

    Mortimer said:

    maaarsh said:

    Mortimer said:

    Managed to rebook my jab for 9 weeks from the first dose, today. Thrilled!

    On the basis of this decided to take the plunge and am now 4 weeks earlier than my previous 2nd dose - many thanks
    I've told all my mates in their 30s - so far all have been able to bring it forward.
    I’m on Moderna, second jab mid-July.
    Is it worth my trying to re-book?
    Try and see.
    Worried I’ll lose my slot, or be sent to some remote wildnerness...like Zone 4 or something.
    That's the problem with the system. You can't take a peek to see what the options are before you cancel.

    Hence I stuck with my 11-week, after work slot.
    This is where my health board, which is ahead of the national rollout has an advantage - my other half doesn't know when her second dose will be - they will just text her when one is available.
    I was done in 3 weeks with this system.
    It's well possible the national system with it's rigid time system is going to allocate the doses far more sparsely toward the back end of the rollout than a system of direct texts from HAs would.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Vomp said:

    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
    Exactly. And the delta variant will either be here in July or more likely have been replaced by something even more infectious. It is the level of immunity from vaccination that is key.
    What is the estimated % vaccination that will give herd immunity? A figure of 95% is quoted for measles which is far more infectious than SARS.
    The problem is working out the *anti-transmission* effectiveness of the vaccines

    We know they are very very effective against hospitalisation and death. They are less so against transmitting the virus.
    Sp what if people get infected if they don't get hospitalised or die though?
    If the virus doesn't die out, but continues to bounce around, it will get to those who are vulnerable. This will mean more hospitalisations and deaths. AKA no herd immunity.

    It is surprisingly hard to work out the transmission numbers, it seems.
    So frigging what though? We need to live with this.

    99% of deaths were from JCVI 1-9
    All of JCVI 1-9 have been offered 2 jabs.
    2 jabs is 98% effective.

    So the risk of death has effectively been reduced by 97% already (0.99*0.98) even ignoring those who are not in 1-9 that have been jabbed already.

    That's already happened today. Its pure cowardice to not be opening up already and destruction of livelihoods that are viable today.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Sandpit said:

    https://hindenburgresearch.com/draftkings/

    I brilliantly reearched piece....aside from draftkings itself, contained in that article, it looks like some premier league clubs and other sports have taken money from the Triads and other shady groups.

    Can they do Football Index, as their next research project?
    Definitely some seriously shady shit with them.
    I’m astonished there hasn’t been an enquiry announced, after £80m went missing. It was clearly a Ponzi scheme, and was a serious regulatory failure.

    Hopefully someone with large losses but deep pockets will sue the GC.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,971
    edited June 2021
    Sorry to disagree with the header but I don't think there's going to be much of a relationship between how the Tories do in Chesham&Amersham and Batley&Spen. C&A is the third least deprived seat in the country and B&S is at the other end of the spectrum.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417

    Vomp said:

    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
    Exactly. And the delta variant will either be here in July or more likely have been replaced by something even more infectious. It is the level of immunity from vaccination that is key.
    What is the estimated % vaccination that will give herd immunity? A figure of 95% is quoted for measles which is far more infectious than SARS.
    The problem is working out the *anti-transmission* effectiveness of the vaccines

    We know they are very very effective against hospitalisation and death. They are less so against transmitting the virus.
    Sp what if people get infected if they don't get hospitalised or die though?
    If the virus doesn't die out, but continues to bounce around, it will get to those who are vulnerable. This will mean more hospitalisations and deaths. AKA no herd immunity.

    It is surprisingly hard to work out the transmission numbers, it seems.
    If neutralising efficacy requires vaccination and infection then that is what it is.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591

    Mortimer said:

    maaarsh said:

    Mortimer said:

    Managed to rebook my jab for 9 weeks from the first dose, today. Thrilled!

    On the basis of this decided to take the plunge and am now 4 weeks earlier than my previous 2nd dose - many thanks
    I've told all my mates in their 30s - so far all have been able to bring it forward.
    I’m on Moderna, second jab mid-July.
    Is it worth my trying to re-book?
    Try and see.
    Worried I’ll lose my slot, or be sent to some remote wildnerness...like Zone 4 or something.
    That's the problem with the system. You can't take a peek to see what the options are before you cancel.

    Hence I stuck with my 11-week, after work slot.
    Just do it in the middle of the night, nobody is going to be rebooking then.

    Also, i found huge availability, that wasn't there 2 weeks ago. It was as if the system was trying to give me every possible option to get done. 2 weeks ago, it was my local hub or a 2hr drive and it was you have to come on a particular day.

    When i rebooked yesterday, it was literally come any day, any time, and if you don't want to local hub, here is a load of other close options.
    Yep, my original booking forced me to go 25 miles away at an awkward timeslot, with a 2nd dose a full 12 weeks later. Rebooking today there were 10 nearer centres available, and the nearest one seemed to be able to offer me nearly any day or time I wanted so I could move up to 8 weeks to the day later.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    https://hindenburgresearch.com/draftkings/

    I brilliantly reearched piece....aside from draftkings itself, contained in that article, it looks like some premier league clubs and other sports have taken money from the Triads and other shady groups.

    Can they do Football Index, as their next research project?
    Definitely some seriously shady shit with them.
    I’m astonished there hasn’t been an enquiry announced, after £80m went missing. It was clearly a Ponzi scheme, and was a serious regulatory failure.

    Hopefully someone with large losses but deep pockets will sue the GC.
    It is clear the regulator didn't understand the product.

    I have just checked, it looks like the Triad owned betting company has a UK licence.....

    a lot of the football shirt sponsors for betting companies don't, it is another "scam", whereby when a uk citizen goes to the site, they get bounced to a white labelled site that is actually run by a semi-legit operator, but the Far Eastern clients go to that site and they get an illegal gambling site run by these shady people.

    However it seems 12bet has a proper uk gambling licence....owned by by a man the FBI say is one of the top men in the Triads.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Mortimer said:

    maaarsh said:

    Mortimer said:

    Managed to rebook my jab for 9 weeks from the first dose, today. Thrilled!

    On the basis of this decided to take the plunge and am now 4 weeks earlier than my previous 2nd dose - many thanks
    I've told all my mates in their 30s - so far all have been able to bring it forward.
    I’m on Moderna, second jab mid-July.
    Is it worth my trying to re-book?
    Try and see.
    Worried I’ll lose my slot, or be sent to some remote wildnerness...like Zone 4 or something.
    That's the problem with the system. You can't take a peek to see what the options are before you cancel.

    Hence I stuck with my 11-week, after work slot.
    Just do it in the middle of the night, nobody is going to be rebooking then.

    Also, i found huge availability, that wasn't there 2 weeks ago. It was as if the system was trying to give me every possible option to get done. 2 weeks ago, it was my local hub or a 2hr drive and it was you have to come on a particular day.

    When i rebooked yesterday, it was literally come any day, any time, and if you don't want to local hub, here is a load of other close options.
    Precisely. Supply is no longer the issue, the system is running out of arms to jab.

    8 weeks ago very few first jabs were done, plus we're already (unofficially) doing first jabs on all over 18s and will officially be doing them by the end of the week.

    If there's more supply than there are eligible people to be jabbed then there'll be plenty of availability but a slowdown in jabs done.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The Delta variant is not just in the UK:

    As at May 31, a total of 449 local cases of infection involve a variant of concern. They comprise:

    • 428 people infected with the Delta variant;

    • Seven people infected with the Alpha variant, first detected in Britain;

    • Nine people infected with the Beta variant, first detected in South Africa; and

    • Five people infected with the Gamma variant, first detected in Brazil.


    https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/550-cases-of-delta-variant-in-spore-at-end-may
  • solarflaresolarflare Posts: 3,753
    Stupid question perhaps but have Israel basically finished vaccinating then?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046

    The Delta variant is not just in the UK:

    As at May 31, a total of 449 local cases of infection involve a variant of concern. They comprise:

    • 428 people infected with the Delta variant;

    • Seven people infected with the Alpha variant, first detected in Britain;

    • Nine people infected with the Beta variant, first detected in South Africa; and

    • Five people infected with the Gamma variant, first detected in Brazil.


    https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/550-cases-of-delta-variant-in-spore-at-end-may

    Much like with the Kent variant, this thing is already everywhere.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046

    Stupid question perhaps but have Israel basically finished vaccinating then?

    They’re doing second doses for secondary school kids at the moment, but have pretty much run into the wall of religious refuseniks.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Swiss walkout of EU 'friendship' treaty talks is bilateral crisis almost as serious as Brexit, writes former adviser to Barnier

    https://twitter.com/BrunoBrussels/status/1404806492470005767?s=20
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Stupid question perhaps but have Israel basically finished vaccinating then?

    Yes. Though they're due to start vaccinating children 12-15 soon, if they haven't already.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    RobD said:

    The Delta variant is not just in the UK:

    As at May 31, a total of 449 local cases of infection involve a variant of concern. They comprise:

    • 428 people infected with the Delta variant;

    • Seven people infected with the Alpha variant, first detected in Britain;

    • Nine people infected with the Beta variant, first detected in South Africa; and

    • Five people infected with the Gamma variant, first detected in Brazil.


    https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/550-cases-of-delta-variant-in-spore-at-end-may

    Much like with the Kent variant, this thing is already everywhere.
    With COVID, the rule is by the time you think you might have a problem coming down the line, you definitely already have the problem.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,927

    Vomp said:

    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
    Exactly. And the delta variant will either be here in July or more likely have been replaced by something even more infectious. It is the level of immunity from vaccination that is key.
    What is the estimated % vaccination that will give herd immunity? A figure of 95% is quoted for measles which is far more infectious than SARS.
    The problem is working out the *anti-transmission* effectiveness of the vaccines

    We know they are very very effective against hospitalisation and death. They are less so against transmitting the virus.
    I'm not following all the details, but would the Israeli experience help here, as they seem to have few (or no?) restrictions and also declining cases. So this implies that their vaccination rate is sufficient to achieve herd immunity against whatever variant is dominant there.

    If it's not Delta in Israel, then we'd probably need a higher percentage vaccinated here, as Delta is more transmissible and also slightly reduces the vaccine effectiveness.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,462

    https://hindenburgresearch.com/draftkings/

    I brilliantly reearched piece....aside from draftkings itself, contained in that article, it looks like some premier league clubs and other sports have taken money from the Triads and other shady groups.

    The Far-East markets beloved of algorithmic traders?
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    Sorry to disagree with the header but I don't think there's going to be much of a relationship between how the Tories do in Chesham&Amersham and Batley&Spen. C&A is the third least deprived seat in the country and B&S is at the other end of the spectrum.

    I agree. They’re both fundamentally different by-elections.

    Potentially there’s some betting value there, if punters read across from one result to the other.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    The ultra orthodox lot in Israel really are testing natural selection. They regularly have made up 50% of the cases, despite only being about 15% of the cases and now a large percentage are refuseniks.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The second memes out there is either that the UK is somehow cursed with new variants and/or that the UK should just not monitor as deeply. A fair bit of this is due to the fact that the UK's testing and sequencing is *really good* (though; Denmark, take a bow) +very transparent....

    With the UK's depth of sequencing and transparency it does mean the world has an ascertainment issue - the variants which have an impact on the UK's COVID trajectory will (currently) be the best understood. This comes hand in hand with... knowing stuff......

    ......For non UK Readers - it is really worth using the UK to understand Delta and have a strategy/plan that works for your country, as it is pretty likely that you will have to navigate this variant as well.


    Meanwhile Ursula announces a new EU certificate to allow travel to return to normal in the EU....

    Thread: https://twitter.com/ewanbirney/status/1404747317626949636?s=20
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    RobD said:

    The Delta variant is not just in the UK:

    As at May 31, a total of 449 local cases of infection involve a variant of concern. They comprise:

    • 428 people infected with the Delta variant;

    • Seven people infected with the Alpha variant, first detected in Britain;

    • Nine people infected with the Beta variant, first detected in South Africa; and

    • Five people infected with the Gamma variant, first detected in Brazil.


    https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/health/550-cases-of-delta-variant-in-spore-at-end-may

    Much like with the Kent variant, this thing is already everywhere.
    But only the countries putting in the work know.....
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196

    Mortimer said:

    maaarsh said:

    Mortimer said:

    Managed to rebook my jab for 9 weeks from the first dose, today. Thrilled!

    On the basis of this decided to take the plunge and am now 4 weeks earlier than my previous 2nd dose - many thanks
    I've told all my mates in their 30s - so far all have been able to bring it forward.
    I’m on Moderna, second jab mid-July.
    Is it worth my trying to re-book?
    Try and see.
    Worried I’ll lose my slot, or be sent to some remote wildnerness...like Zone 4 or something.
    That's the problem with the system. You can't take a peek to see what the options are before you cancel.

    Hence I stuck with my 11-week, after work slot.
    Just do it in the middle of the night, nobody is going to be rebooking then.

    Also, i found huge availability, that wasn't there 2 weeks ago. It was as if the system was trying to give me every possible option to get done. 2 weeks ago, it was my local hub or a 2hr drive and it was you have to come on a particular day.

    When i rebooked yesterday, it was literally come any day, any time, and if you don't want to local hub, here is a load of other close options.
    Precisely. Supply is no longer the issue, the system is running out of arms to jab.

    8 weeks ago very few first jabs were done, plus we're already (unofficially) doing first jabs on all over 18s and will officially be doing them by the end of the week.

    If there's more supply than there are eligible people to be jabbed then there'll be plenty of availability but a slowdown in jabs done.
    There are multiple million people, over 18, still to receive a vaccination.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,173
    What evidence is there that UNS ever applied in any meaningful way to a parliamentary by-election?

    Which doesn’t make the conclusion necessarily wrong, of course; just the hypothesis.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    There's a hostage to fortune if I ever saw one:

    With the coronavirus pandemic fading, the EU has new rules on how to move around the bloc.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/faq-how-to-travel-in-europe-this-summer-coronavirus-restrictions-digital-covid-certificate/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417

    Stupid question perhaps but have Israel basically finished vaccinating then?

    Yes, they're into the long tail of the hesitant and kids who they've sort of half recommended to get it.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,082
    Sandpit said:

    Cookie said:

    FPT - what are people's views on what is happening with the Delta variant in Europe? Is it there yet and just not being unearthed because they're not doing the sequencing? If so, are they three weeks behind a surge in cases? Is there comparative slowness to vaccinate going to be a problem? Or is Delta a) overblown or b) going to be cancelled out by vaccinations and seasonality?
    My view is the latter. But it is not an informed view.

    My uninformed view is that they’re a few weeks behind the UK, but with a much lower vaccination rate and more encouragement to travel and take holidays. August could be utter carnage. Same goes for USA.
    Thanks Sandpit. Your uninformed view is as good as (and more interesting than) mine!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196

    Vomp said:

    DavidL said:

    rkrkrk said:

    DavidL said:

    The level of vaccination has fallen from the pathetic to the derisory. As this is the plain and simple reason why Freedom day has been postponed is it possible that either the media or the Opposition might ask a question about it? What has gone wrong and what can we do about it?

    The plain & simple reason is the delta variant.
    Is it? If we’d had a higher rate of vaccination, we wouldn’t have delayed. Or so we are told. The delay is to second jab, remember?
    Exactly. And the delta variant will either be here in July or more likely have been replaced by something even more infectious. It is the level of immunity from vaccination that is key.
    What is the estimated % vaccination that will give herd immunity? A figure of 95% is quoted for measles which is far more infectious than SARS.
    The problem is working out the *anti-transmission* effectiveness of the vaccines

    We know they are very very effective against hospitalisation and death. They are less so against transmitting the virus.
    I'm not following all the details, but would the Israeli experience help here, as they seem to have few (or no?) restrictions and also declining cases. So this implies that their vaccination rate is sufficient to achieve herd immunity against whatever variant is dominant there.

    If it's not Delta in Israel, then we'd probably need a higher percentage vaccinated here, as Delta is more transmissible and also slightly reduces the vaccine effectiveness.
    The issue, which makes crude calculations of the transmission much harder, is the societal structure. So you find that groups of people can form isolated islands, socially, with varying numbers of edge connections to similar groups.
  • Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 5,039
    Cookie said:

    FPT - what are people's views on what is happening with the Delta variant in Europe? Is it there yet and just not being unearthed because they're not doing the sequencing? If so, are they three weeks behind a surge in cases? Is there comparative slowness to vaccinate going to be a problem? Or is Delta a) overblown or b) going to be cancelled out by vaccinations and seasonality?
    My view is the latter. But it is not an informed view.

    What happened with Alpha is that whilst the new variant was growing as a proportion, it was invisible.

    If you start with 5% new variant (growing at R=1.5) and 95% old variant (shrinking at R=0.9), you don't get to see much. The overall number of cases continues to decline. Just not quite as fast as before.

    (Every 1000 cases becomes 930 in one week. 880 in two weeks. 860 in three weeks. 870 in four weeks (and you go, "Oh, it's levelled off. Not a problem, it's really low". But now, those 870 are 250 new variant and 620 old variant)
    In five weeks, it's 940. In six, it's 1070, and you've gone back up past where you were (with 570 new variant cases and 500 old variant; new variant has overtaken the old one and you're at take-off).

    In seven, it's 1310; in 8, it's 1690; in 9, it's 2290; in 10, it's 3214, and growing fast. 90% of cases are new variant.

    That's exactly what happened in countries over winter who were behind us with Alpha taking over.

    Of course, they know it this time; most countries are saying that they're banking on vaccinating fast enough to see off the take-off point.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,417
    Tbh adolescent takeup in Israel may well be low due to the myocarditis risk and the negligible levels of virus in the country. I expect if delta broke through the defences more parents would get their kids vaxxed.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 55,046
    Interesting graphic from the Telegraph, who appear to be rapidly breaking off their support of the government...

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,669

    There's a hostage to fortune if I ever saw one:

    With the coronavirus pandemic fading, the EU has new rules on how to move around the bloc.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/faq-how-to-travel-in-europe-this-summer-coronavirus-restrictions-digital-covid-certificate/

    Against that, the EU is now rather ahead (in terms of vaccinations) of where the US was when it began reopening.

    They (in general) are just rather happier with a higher background level of Covid than the UK is.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 60,046
    Sandpit said:

    Interesting graphic from the Telegraph, who appear to be rapidly breaking off their support of the government...

    That actually really annoyed me. They actually showed projections going into the future as well as the current data. And the Telegraph conveniently ignored the start of the second and first waves, which looked awfully similar.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    edited June 2021

    Cookie said:

    FPT - what are people's views on what is happening with the Delta variant in Europe? Is it there yet and just not being unearthed because they're not doing the sequencing? If so, are they three weeks behind a surge in cases? Is there comparative slowness to vaccinate going to be a problem? Or is Delta a) overblown or b) going to be cancelled out by vaccinations and seasonality?
    My view is the latter. But it is not an informed view.

    What happened with Alpha is that whilst the new variant was growing as a proportion, it was invisible.

    If you start with 5% new variant (growing at R=1.5) and 95% old variant (shrinking at R=0.9), you don't get to see much. The overall number of cases continues to decline. Just not quite as fast as before.

    (Every 1000 cases becomes 930 in one week. 880 in two weeks. 860 in three weeks. 870 in four weeks (and you go, "Oh, it's levelled off. Not a problem, it's really low". But now, those 870 are 250 new variant and 620 old variant)
    In five weeks, it's 940. In six, it's 1070, and you've gone back up past where you were (with 570 new variant cases and 500 old variant; new variant has overtaken the old one and you're at take-off).

    In seven, it's 1310; in 8, it's 1690; in 9, it's 2290; in 10, it's 3214, and growing fast. 90% of cases are new variant.

    That's exactly what happened in countries over winter who were behind us with Alpha taking over.

    Of course, they know it this time; most countries are saying that they're banking on vaccinating fast enough to see off the take-off point.
    It’s an awesome time for epidemiology. This must be the first time a virus has been properly sequenced and tracked on such a large scale. I bet we’re learning loads about how viruses work in real life, not just in the models.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,591
    rcs1000 said:

    There's a hostage to fortune if I ever saw one:

    With the coronavirus pandemic fading, the EU has new rules on how to move around the bloc.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/faq-how-to-travel-in-europe-this-summer-coronavirus-restrictions-digital-covid-certificate/

    Against that, the EU is now rather ahead (in terms of vaccinations) of where the US was when it began reopening.

    They (in general) are just rather happier with a higher background level of Covid than the UK is.
    Frankly if there isn't a shitshow in the US and Europe over the next few months it will be just another thing to add to the charge sheet of cock ups Sage will never be held accountable for.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,571
    JohnO said:

    Survation

    Cons 42 (+1)
    Lab 35 (+2)
    LD 9
    Green 5 (-1)

    FWIW that's a 2% swing to Labour since 2019, which is interesting for Batley and Spen. But just one poll, and I think the most favourable for Labour (contrast with YouGov!).
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting graphic from the Telegraph, who appear to be rapidly breaking off their support of the government...

    That actually really annoyed me. They actually showed projections going into the future as well as the current data. And the Telegraph conveniently ignored the start of the second and first waves, which looked awfully similar.
    Not sure about Telegraph breaking off support. They have featured a steady stream of commentators and opinion pieces on why lockdown isn't working and so on. See their Planet Normal podcast for example.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021

    RobD said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interesting graphic from the Telegraph, who appear to be rapidly breaking off their support of the government...

    That actually really annoyed me. They actually showed projections going into the future as well as the current data. And the Telegraph conveniently ignored the start of the second and first waves, which looked awfully similar.
    Not sure about Telegraph breaking off support. They have featured a steady stream of commentators and opinion pieces on why lockdown isn't working and so on. See their Planet Normal podcast for example.
    Talk Radio and the Telegraph have been the biggest pushers of anti-lockdown / faster opening of any of the mainstream media.

    The mail seems to veer from lock me down harder and faster, to 10 mins later, running pieces saying why are the government locking down so hard, what about my uman rights.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,640
    maaarsh said:

    Mortimer said:

    Managed to rebook my jab for 9 weeks from the first dose, today. Thrilled!

    On the basis of this decided to take the plunge and am now 4 weeks earlier than my previous 2nd dose - many thanks
    Thank you from me too, you re-bookers encouraged me to take the plunge as well and my second dose is now 28th June rather than 17th July.
This discussion has been closed.