To be honest there is no chance of Boris being interviewed by Morgan
Indeed if he is able to open the economy shortly and some normality returns to everyone's lives he will have a secure legacy of Brexit and Covid 19
I did not watch the programme but then I would not watch Morgan on any programme as I simply dislike him
I am sure some will have enjoyed his interview, but hs revelation he is close to the Clooney's will just affirm his left wing Metropolitan elite status with many
Boris tends to avoid being interviewed by anyone. He’s not really big on accountability.
It does not seem to be doing him any harm at present
The question is whether it does us any harm.
Well of course the same could be said of a future PM Starmer or indeed any future PM
It is of course coloured by one's own political views
I am talking about accountability. Boris doesn’t do it. Typically that’s seen as detrimental in a democracy.
He has faced a GE and the local elections and won handsomely, and that is the ultimate accountability of any politician
Subjecting oneself to thorough press scrutiny ought to be a prerequisite for high office. That it isn't is a sad reflection on the health of our politics. I don't absolve the Labour Party from its role in providing such a dismal alternative in 2019. But I can't remember a PM elected on the basis of such flimsy scrutiny before in my lifetime, and I think Johnson's performance in office is a reflection of that.
With respect you are understandably projecting your political attitude to Boris but in the end facing the public in a GE is the real test, and he obtained an 80 seat majority 18 months ago, and he did well in the locals with record results in Wales
As some are aware I would prefer Rishi as PM, but the consolation if I am being a wee bit flippant is to see just how infuriating Boris is to the left and those who hold the EU dear
It was like a race against a one legged man, any donkey would have beaten Corbyn and I mean any donkey.
Who would give the Prime Minister a reasonably sympathetic interview, which by the sound of it Piers did for SKS?
I think people are writing off SKS a little bit too early btw. There is a long way to go until the next election and “events” are coming a bit thick and fast so far since the last one. Having someone who is seen as boringly competent could very well be a great selling point.
I don’t know I’d go that far. I can’t quite see him leading Labour to government.
His job however was to restore normality and sanity after the Corbyn years so Labour will eventually be taken seriously again and not as a bunch of freeloading racists with small brains, greedy minds and gross self-centredness.
Remember, if Long Bailey had won we would in all probability be talking very seriously about a substantiallyincreased Tory majority next time. At that stage, we would have to ponder whether Labour could ever hope to return to power or whether their vote would fracture to the Lib Dems and Greens.
Starmer had killed that talk stone dead. He may never be PM. Probably won’t. But he has salvaged an opposition from Corbyn’s wreckage that looks, with faults and drawbacks, like something that will again a reasonably credible alternative party of government. And for that, he deserves all our heartfelt thanks.
Hartlepool - and again the timing of Batley&Spen - makes me fear he lacks political 'nous' and antennae. A very clever lawyer rather than an instinctive politician. He is certainly no Harold Wilson.
But he might be a shorter tenured Gaitskell or Kinnock.
But both of them were good politicians - and had he lived Gaitskell would probably have reached No10 in 1964.
Public Health Wales, Conwy County Borough Council and Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board are urging people living in the Llandudno Junction, Llandudno and Penrhyn Bay areas of North Wales to be alert for Coronavirus symptoms and to take a test as soon as possible even if they have no symptoms.
Public Health Wales, Conwy County Borough Council and Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board are urging people living in the Llandudno Junction, Llandudno and Penrhyn Bay areas of North Wales to be alert for Coronavirus symptoms and to take a test as soon as possible even if they have no symptoms.
Boris wins elections Because he is popular Because he wins elections Because he is popular Because he wins elections
Etc etc
Not much more to add
The very essence of a successful politician
But is he any good at governing?
The frustrating thing for me personally is that I can’t remember in my lifetime a government like this which has no ideology except what will keep them in power.
Obviously all governments attempt to stay in government but in my living memory they were set about a project they believed would advance the country.
Boris and his team don’t have one. And please don’t say, “levelling up”. There’s no serious attempt at policy development on this front, just random (and modest) cash giveaways.
Compare with Thatcher’s privatisation drive, Blair’s “third way” reform of public services, and even Cameron’s “return to fiscal sobriety plus liberal reform”.
To be fair Brexit and covid overwhelms anything else
Who would give the Prime Minister a reasonably sympathetic interview, which by the sound of it Piers did for SKS?
I think people are writing off SKS a little bit too early btw. There is a long way to go until the next election and “events” are coming a bit thick and fast so far since the last one. Having someone who is seen as boringly competent could very well be a great selling point.
I don’t know I’d go that far. I can’t quite see him leading Labour to government.
His job however was to restore normality and sanity after the Corbyn years so Labour will eventually be taken seriously again and not as a bunch of freeloading racists with small brains, greedy minds and gross self-centredness.
Remember, if Long Bailey had won we would in all probability be talking very seriously about a substantiallyincreased Tory majority next time. At that stage, we would have to ponder whether Labour could ever hope to return to power or whether their vote would fracture to the Lib Dems and Greens.
Starmer had killed that talk stone dead. He may never be PM. Probably won’t. But he has salvaged an opposition from Corbyn’s wreckage that looks, with faults and drawbacks, like something that will again a reasonably credible alternative party of government. And for that, he deserves all our heartfelt thanks.
Hartlepool - and again the timing of Batley&Spen - makes me fear he lacks political 'nous' and antennae. A very clever lawyer rather than an instinctive politician. He is certainly no Harold Wilson.
But he might be a shorter tenured Gaitskell or Kinnock.
But both of them were good politicians - and had he lived Gaitskell would probably have reached No10 in 1964.
Although Gaitskell also lost a by-election to the government - Brighouse and Spenborough in 1960.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Also, why isn't Wood bowling from the get go... what's the point of having a tear away pace bowler if he only gets the ball when its had the shine taken off / softened up.
Drove me mad as a youth just getting into senior cricket and could bowl 80mph and for the first season they used me 2nd change, so I got a bloody pudding to bowl with.
Yes and yes. It is impressive though, only spoiled by the fact that my face appears 3 times (4 if you count the see through heptagon).
Ah, haven't seen one, though we need to get one for my daughter (first passport, she's 1) for later this year visiting friends in the Netherlands (hopefully!)
Do they all come with your face on - you win a competition or something?
Who would give the Prime Minister a reasonably sympathetic interview, which by the sound of it Piers did for SKS?
I think people are writing off SKS a little bit too early btw. There is a long way to go until the next election and “events” are coming a bit thick and fast so far since the last one. Having someone who is seen as boringly competent could very well be a great selling point.
I don’t know I’d go that far. I can’t quite see him leading Labour to government.
His job however was to restore normality and sanity after the Corbyn years so Labour will eventually be taken seriously again and not as a bunch of freeloading racists with small brains, greedy minds and gross self-centredness.
Remember, if Long Bailey had won we would in all probability be talking very seriously about a substantiallyincreased Tory majority next time. At that stage, we would have to ponder whether Labour could ever hope to return to power or whether their vote would fracture to the Lib Dems and Greens.
Starmer had killed that talk stone dead. He may never be PM. Probably won’t. But he has salvaged an opposition from Corbyn’s wreckage that looks, with faults and drawbacks, like something that will again a reasonably credible alternative party of government. And for that, he deserves all our heartfelt thanks.
Hartlepool - and again the timing of Batley&Spen - makes me fear he lacks political 'nous' and antennae. A very clever lawyer rather than an instinctive politician. He is certainly no Harold Wilson.
But he might be a shorter tenured Gaitskell or Kinnock.
But both of them were good politicians - and had he lived Gaitskell would probably have reached No10 in 1964.
Although Gaitskell also lost a by-election to the government - Brighouse and Spenborough in 1960.
Fantastic story brewing in Darlington. The new Tory council wants to transform the town's image complete with a neat rebrand. As the article shows the existing town hall is the usual kind of brutalist concrete hell which looks transformed with the proposed new signage.
Apparently teal is a Tory colour these days. For lazy Pb-ers avoiding the click. From this:
to this:
You'll note that the 2nd piccie has a more summery Sky. Who'd have thought that Darlo Town Hall would get the same retouching treatment as Naomi Campbell.
Cost, for this and the litter bins, is claimed to be £20k. Wonder if that includes the actual work?
£20k is surely the cost of the marketing consultants, which in the grand scheme of things isn’t too bad - it’s a couple of people for a month, with a few days of more senior people involved. Not that it isn’t a bad look to be spending money on a branding exercise when council tax is going up. Presumably they’re not replacing tens of thousands of serviceable bins with new ones in a different colour, because that would be costing actual money.
Boris wins elections Because he is popular Because he wins elections Because he is popular Because he wins elections
Etc etc
Yep. He may be the exact thing they loudly object to if it was Labour - corruption, waste, secret deals, bumbling incompetence etc etc. But they don't mind if its Boris because he wins elections and is popular.
If would be beneficial for everyone if Tories applied their own standards to themselves. Just because won an election and popular doesn't mean we should put up with incompetent and wasteful government.
Boris wins elections Because he is popular Because he wins elections Because he is popular Because he wins elections
Etc etc
Not much more to add
The very essence of a successful politician
But is he any good at governing?
The frustrating thing for me personally is that I can’t remember in my lifetime a government like this which has no ideology except what will keep them in power.
Obviously all governments attempt to stay in government but in my living memory they were set about a project they believed would advance the country.
Boris and his team don’t have one. And please don’t say, “levelling up”. There’s no serious attempt at policy development on this front, just random (and modest) cash giveaways.
Compare with Thatcher’s privatisation drive, Blair’s “third way” reform of public services, and even Cameron’s “return to fiscal sobriety plus liberal reform”.
Yes he's good at governing.
He's good at delegating. He's good at "big picture" issues. He's good at going for things others don't see as plausible and making them happen.
He got a renegotiated Brexit deal, others said would be impossible to get. He got a trade deal in 11 months, others said would be impossible to get. He got negotiations beginning with CPTPP, others said would be impossible to get. Last year he got first authorised vaccinations on the entire planet, others said would be impossible to get. He got best in the major nations world procurement of vaccines, others said would be impossible to get.
Then there's furlough, a deficit coming in under predictions and so on and so forth.
Fantastic story brewing in Darlington. The new Tory council wants to transform the town's image complete with a neat rebrand. As the article shows the existing town hall is the usual kind of brutalist concrete hell which looks transformed with the proposed new signage.
Apparently teal is a Tory colour these days. For lazy Pb-ers avoiding the click. From this:
to this:
You'll note that the 2nd piccie has a more summery Sky. Who'd have thought that Darlo Town Hall would get the same retouching treatment as Naomi Campbell.
Cost, for this and the litter bins, is claimed to be £20k. Wonder if that includes the actual work?
Given the glow around it too, it might just be a giant Philips Ambilight TV. Which would be forward thinking - can switch it to red easily should the unthinkable happen.
Fantastic story brewing in Darlington. The new Tory council wants to transform the town's image complete with a neat rebrand. As the article shows the existing town hall is the usual kind of brutalist concrete hell which looks transformed with the proposed new signage.
Apparently teal is a Tory colour these days. For lazy Pb-ers avoiding the click. From this:
to this:
You'll note that the 2nd piccie has a more summery Sky. Who'd have thought that Darlo Town Hall would get the same retouching treatment as Naomi Campbell.
Cost, for this and the litter bins, is claimed to be £20k. Wonder if that includes the actual work?
No chance. Unless its all mates rates or one of the new councillors is a graphic designer who did the artwork and another is a signmaker who has surplus materials he is willing to give away.
Unless its £20k for that one sign and one bin? Even that sounds unlikely.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
Yep!
There’s a case to be made for short term visas for unskilled young ‘tourist-workers’, as they do in Australia, but there need to be the systems in place to manage that properly.
In the meantime, paying a pound an hour over NMW should sort out anyone’s staffing problems pretty quickly. No-one is going to complain if JDW put 10p on a pint, when most smaller pubs have put on £1 or more.
To be honest there is no chance of Boris being interviewed by Morgan
Indeed if he is able to open the economy shortly and some normality returns to everyone's lives he will have a secure legacy of Brexit and Covid 19
I did not watch the programme but then I would not watch Morgan on any programme as I simply dislike him
I am sure some will have enjoyed his interview, but hs revelation he is close to the Clooney's will just affirm his left wing Metropolitan elite status with many
Boris tends to avoid being interviewed by anyone. He’s not really big on accountability.
It does not seem to be doing him any harm at present
The question is whether it does us any harm.
Well of course the same could be said of a future PM Starmer or indeed any future PM
It is of course coloured by one's own political views
I am talking about accountability. Boris doesn’t do it. Typically that’s seen as detrimental in a democracy.
He has faced a GE and the local elections and won handsomely, and that is the ultimate accountability of any politician
Subjecting oneself to thorough press scrutiny ought to be a prerequisite for high office. That it isn't is a sad reflection on the health of our politics. I don't absolve the Labour Party from its role in providing such a dismal alternative in 2019. But I can't remember a PM elected on the basis of such flimsy scrutiny before in my lifetime, and I think Johnson's performance in office is a reflection of that.
With respect you are understandably projecting your political attitude to Boris but in the end facing the public in a GE is the real test, and he obtained an 80 seat majority 18 months ago, and he did well in the locals with record results in Wales
As some are aware I would prefer Rishi as PM, but the consolation if I am being a wee bit flippant is to see just how infuriating Boris is to the left and those who hold the EU dear
It was like a race against a one legged man, any donkey would have beaten Corbyn and I mean any donkey.
Good morning Malc
Nice to be on the same page, I agree with you, though donkeys are really lovable creatures unlike Corbyn
For sure it is hard to believe where we would be with him in charge. Was the easiest election campaign in history, can never have been a more hated candidate standing. PS: Good morning to you also, well afternoon now.
To be honest there is no chance of Boris being interviewed by Morgan
Indeed if he is able to open the economy shortly and some normality returns to everyone's lives he will have a secure legacy of Brexit and Covid 19
I did not watch the programme but then I would not watch Morgan on any programme as I simply dislike him
I am sure some will have enjoyed his interview, but hs revelation he is close to the Clooney's will just affirm his left wing Metropolitan elite status with many
Boris tends to avoid being interviewed by anyone. He’s not really big on accountability.
It does not seem to be doing him any harm at present
The question is whether it does us any harm.
Well of course the same could be said of a future PM Starmer or indeed any future PM
It is of course coloured by one's own political views
I am talking about accountability. Boris doesn’t do it. Typically that’s seen as detrimental in a democracy.
He has faced a GE and the local elections and won handsomely, and that is the ultimate accountability of any politician
Subjecting oneself to thorough press scrutiny ought to be a prerequisite for high office. That it isn't is a sad reflection on the health of our politics. I don't absolve the Labour Party from its role in providing such a dismal alternative in 2019. But I can't remember a PM elected on the basis of such flimsy scrutiny before in my lifetime, and I think Johnson's performance in office is a reflection of that.
Johnson has been through a general election campaign. Plenty of press scrutiny involved in one of those.
I thought the Conservatives did everything possible to hide Johnson away from press scrutiny in the election campaign...
To be honest there is no chance of Boris being interviewed by Morgan
Indeed if he is able to open the economy shortly and some normality returns to everyone's lives he will have a secure legacy of Brexit and Covid 19
I did not watch the programme but then I would not watch Morgan on any programme as I simply dislike him
I am sure some will have enjoyed his interview, but hs revelation he is close to the Clooney's will just affirm his left wing Metropolitan elite status with many
Boris tends to avoid being interviewed by anyone. He’s not really big on accountability.
It does not seem to be doing him any harm at present
The question is whether it does us any harm.
Well of course the same could be said of a future PM Starmer or indeed any future PM
It is of course coloured by one's own political views
I am talking about accountability. Boris doesn’t do it. Typically that’s seen as detrimental in a democracy.
He has faced a GE and the local elections and won handsomely, and that is the ultimate accountability of any politician
Subjecting oneself to thorough press scrutiny ought to be a prerequisite for high office. That it isn't is a sad reflection on the health of our politics. I don't absolve the Labour Party from its role in providing such a dismal alternative in 2019. But I can't remember a PM elected on the basis of such flimsy scrutiny before in my lifetime, and I think Johnson's performance in office is a reflection of that.
With respect you are understandably projecting your political attitude to Boris but in the end facing the public in a GE is the real test, and he obtained an 80 seat majority 18 months ago, and he did well in the locals with record results in Wales
As some are aware I would prefer Rishi as PM, but the consolation if I am being a wee bit flippant is to see just how infuriating Boris is to the left and those who hold the EU dear
It was like a race against a one legged man, any donkey would have beaten Corbyn and I mean any donkey.
Good morning Malc
Nice to be on the same page, I agree with you, though donkeys are really lovable creatures unlike Corbyn
For sure it is hard to believe where we would be with him in charge. Was the easiest election campaign in history, can never have been a more hated candidate standing.
Fantastic story brewing in Darlington. The new Tory council wants to transform the town's image complete with a neat rebrand. As the article shows the existing town hall is the usual kind of brutalist concrete hell which looks transformed with the proposed new signage.
Apparently teal is a Tory colour these days. For lazy Pb-ers avoiding the click. From this:
to this:
You'll note that the 2nd piccie has a more summery Sky. Who'd have thought that Darlo Town Hall would get the same retouching treatment as Naomi Campbell.
Cost, for this and the litter bins, is claimed to be £20k. Wonder if that includes the actual work?
Who would give the Prime Minister a reasonably sympathetic interview, which by the sound of it Piers did for SKS?
I think people are writing off SKS a little bit too early btw. There is a long way to go until the next election and “events” are coming a bit thick and fast so far since the last one. Having someone who is seen as boringly competent could very well be a great selling point.
I don’t know I’d go that far. I can’t quite see him leading Labour to government.
His job however was to restore normality and sanity after the Corbyn years so Labour will eventually be taken seriously again and not as a bunch of freeloading racists with small brains, greedy minds and gross self-centredness.
Remember, if Long Bailey had won we would in all probability be talking very seriously about a substantiallyincreased Tory majority next time. At that stage, we would have to ponder whether Labour could ever hope to return to power or whether their vote would fracture to the Lib Dems and Greens.
Starmer had killed that talk stone dead. He may never be PM. Probably won’t. But he has salvaged an opposition from Corbyn’s wreckage that looks, with faults and drawbacks, like something that will again a reasonably credible alternative party of government. And for that, he deserves all our heartfelt thanks.
Hartlepool - and again the timing of Batley&Spen - makes me fear he lacks political 'nous' and antennae. A very clever lawyer rather than an instinctive politician. He is certainly no Harold Wilson.
But he might be a shorter tenured Gaitskell or Kinnock.
But both of them were good politicians - and had he lived Gaitskell would probably have reached No10 in 1964.
Although Gaitskell also lost a by-election to the government - Brighouse and Spenborough in 1960.
Indeed - though that was within a few months of the 1959 GE. He had also managed four by election gains in the 1955 Parliament which were followed by a further two before his death in January 1963.
To be honest there is no chance of Boris being interviewed by Morgan
Indeed if he is able to open the economy shortly and some normality returns to everyone's lives he will have a secure legacy of Brexit and Covid 19
I did not watch the programme but then I would not watch Morgan on any programme as I simply dislike him
I am sure some will have enjoyed his interview, but hs revelation he is close to the Clooney's will just affirm his left wing Metropolitan elite status with many
Boris tends to avoid being interviewed by anyone. He’s not really big on accountability.
It does not seem to be doing him any harm at present
The question is whether it does us any harm.
Well of course the same could be said of a future PM Starmer or indeed any future PM
It is of course coloured by one's own political views
I am talking about accountability. Boris doesn’t do it. Typically that’s seen as detrimental in a democracy.
He has faced a GE and the local elections and won handsomely, and that is the ultimate accountability of any politician
Subjecting oneself to thorough press scrutiny ought to be a prerequisite for high office. That it isn't is a sad reflection on the health of our politics. I don't absolve the Labour Party from its role in providing such a dismal alternative in 2019. But I can't remember a PM elected on the basis of such flimsy scrutiny before in my lifetime, and I think Johnson's performance in office is a reflection of that.
With respect you are understandably projecting your political attitude to Boris but in the end facing the public in a GE is the real test, and he obtained an 80 seat majority 18 months ago, and he did well in the locals with record results in Wales
As some are aware I would prefer Rishi as PM, but the consolation if I am being a wee bit flippant is to see just how infuriating Boris is to the left and those who hold the EU dear
It was like a race against a one legged man, any donkey would have beaten Corbyn and I mean any donkey.
Good morning Malc
Nice to be on the same page, I agree with you, though donkeys are really lovable creatures unlike Corbyn
For sure it is hard to believe where we would be with him in charge. Was the easiest election campaign in history, can never have been a more hated candidate standing. PS: Good morning to you also, well afternoon now.
I didn't hate him, but I did dislike him and just couldn't see him as PM
Who would give the Prime Minister a reasonably sympathetic interview, which by the sound of it Piers did for SKS?
I think people are writing off SKS a little bit too early btw. There is a long way to go until the next election and “events” are coming a bit thick and fast so far since the last one. Having someone who is seen as boringly competent could very well be a great selling point.
I don’t know I’d go that far. I can’t quite see him leading Labour to government.
His job however was to restore normality and sanity after the Corbyn years so Labour will eventually be taken seriously again and not as a bunch of freeloading racists with small brains, greedy minds and gross self-centredness.
Remember, if Long Bailey had won we would in all probability be talking very seriously about a substantiallyincreased Tory majority next time. At that stage, we would have to ponder whether Labour could ever hope to return to power or whether their vote would fracture to the Lib Dems and Greens.
Starmer had killed that talk stone dead. He may never be PM. Probably won’t. But he has salvaged an opposition from Corbyn’s wreckage that looks, with faults and drawbacks, like something that will again a reasonably credible alternative party of government. And for that, he deserves all our heartfelt thanks.
Hartlepool - and again the timing of Batley&Spen - makes me fear he lacks political 'nous' and antennae. A very clever lawyer rather than an instinctive politician. He is certainly no Harold Wilson.
But he might be a shorter tenured Gaitskell or Kinnock.
But both of them were good politicians - and had he lived Gaitskell would probably have reached No10 in 1964.
Although Gaitskell also lost a by-election to the government - Brighouse and Spenborough in 1960.
Indeed - though that was within a few months of the 1959 GE. He had also managed four by election gains in the 1955 Parliament which were followed by a further two before his death in January 1963.
The location is ominous for Starmer though - given the Tories last won the Hartlepools in 1959...
Boris wins elections Because he is popular Because he wins elections Because he is popular Because he wins elections
Etc etc
Yep. He may be the exact thing they loudly object to if it was Labour - corruption, waste, secret deals, bumbling incompetence etc etc. But they don't mind if its Boris because he wins elections and is popular.
If would be beneficial for everyone if Tories applied their own standards to themselves. Just because won an election and popular doesn't mean we should put up with incompetent and wasteful government.
Very much agreed.
However, the opposition need to pick their battles carefully. Most people accept that the government should say ‘does anyone know anyone who knows anyone who can get PPE for the NHS?’ at the start of a pandemic, when M. Macron has just impounded a few lorries full of masks and gloves.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
I am sure the continuation of the furlough scheme isn't helping the issue with staffing...there will be a fair number of people on furlough who in reality their jobs don't exist anymore.
Who would give the Prime Minister a reasonably sympathetic interview, which by the sound of it Piers did for SKS?
I think people are writing off SKS a little bit too early btw. There is a long way to go until the next election and “events” are coming a bit thick and fast so far since the last one. Having someone who is seen as boringly competent could very well be a great selling point.
I don’t know I’d go that far. I can’t quite see him leading Labour to government.
His job however was to restore normality and sanity after the Corbyn years so Labour will eventually be taken seriously again and not as a bunch of freeloading racists with small brains, greedy minds and gross self-centredness.
Remember, if Long Bailey had won we would in all probability be talking very seriously about a substantiallyincreased Tory majority next time. At that stage, we would have to ponder whether Labour could ever hope to return to power or whether their vote would fracture to the Lib Dems and Greens.
Starmer had killed that talk stone dead. He may never be PM. Probably won’t. But he has salvaged an opposition from Corbyn’s wreckage that looks, with faults and drawbacks, like something that will again a reasonably credible alternative party of government. And for that, he deserves all our heartfelt thanks.
Hartlepool - and again the timing of Batley&Spen - makes me fear he lacks political 'nous' and antennae. A very clever lawyer rather than an instinctive politician. He is certainly no Harold Wilson.
But he might be a shorter tenured Gaitskell or Kinnock.
But both of them were good politicians - and had he lived Gaitskell would probably have reached No10 in 1964.
Although Gaitskell also lost a by-election to the government - Brighouse and Spenborough in 1960.
Indeed - though that was within a few months of the 1959 GE. He had also managed four by election gains in the 1955 Parliament which were followed by a further two before his death in January 1963.
The location is ominous for Starmer though - given the Tories last won the Hartlepools in 1959...
Yes and yes. It is impressive though, only spoiled by the fact that my face appears 3 times (4 if you count the see through heptagon).
Ah, haven't seen one, though we need to get one for my daughter (first passport, she's 1) for later this year visiting friends in the Netherlands (hopefully!)
Do they all come with your face on - you win a competition or something?
I am sure it is not a coincidence but Sky and the BBC seem to be avoiding the zero covid independence sage clique today
Finally realising that, after Zero Deaths Day, they’ll make themselves look like idiots if they keep pushing that line?
They will be regrouping with shifted goal posts...just as the other extemists kept doing last year when claiming things never as bad as seems. Actually Gupta still is trying to claim herd immunity was achieved, but some nonsense about there are different levels of herd immunity based on the season and variants...shakes head.
Political wonks on an internet forum: the press are total morons who are incapable of holding the Government to account properly, because they're lazy, incapable of asking the right questions, get constantly sidetracked by trivialities, and don't know anything useful about anything important.
Also, those same political wonks: Why Won't The Prime Minister Allow The Press To Hold The Government To Account Properly???
Why do England always end up picking 4 right arm over seamers...and 3 of the 4 so often very similar pace.
Robinson bowling at 79mph....unless you can make it bend like an EU mandated banana, you aren't going to trouble test match batsmen.
Is there any reason (other than not being picked) for Sam Curran not playing? Left arm adds variation and his batting means he could be a fifth bowler batting 7 surely?
I haven't watched the Starmer interview - and probably won't because I'd have to see Morgan - but from write ups it sounds similar to his Desert Island Discs appearance. If so, good, because that was excellent.
But the million dollar question is to what extent "Boris" Johnson has changed the game. Do you now need to create a facetious comic persona in order to be PM material?
One hopes not, if one has an interest in the health of our democracy, but one can't be sure of this if one is honest. The Johnson brand is insidious. It's affecting people's synapses, some of them perfectly decent people.
The next year will tell us a lot and is so so important. I just can't emphasize enough how important this next year is going to be. It could go either way.
No, no, no. You don't have to be a personality of any sort to be PM. You need to be leading the party which is least out of tune with the mood of the nation. That's all.
People like Johnson because he's entertaining. He's good company. He's a good communicator. But people vote for him because they don't like the other lot.
In 2019 Boris was fortunate because 'the other lot' were not only a) a party of loons led by a certifiable madman, but also b) the hardcore Remain element.
A common narrative which I don't buy. I think that in addition to owning the Leave demographic Johnson has a strong and specific appeal to a certain type of voter - I'll call them the Shallow Apoliticals - who really do value the shitz and giggles he brings to the erstwhile rather serious game of big ticket national politics. As a proportion of the electorate it's enough to deliver a handsome majority under FPTP. That's where we are now. I'm hoping it'll change by the time of the next GE but I'd be more hopeful of that if Johnson were to piss off to write his memoirs and make millions doing cabaret on yachts and cruise ships. Some think he might do this. I know he won't. Sadly.
As for GE19, you need luck to win a landslide, of course you do, and this guy is lucky, no question, but it's a mistake imo to seek to explain the result that way. He and Cummings set up and then prosecuted that People vs Parliament Brexit election with a ruthless brilliance. The idea that if it weren't for Labour being led by Jeremy Corbyn it would have been close is for the birds. Johnson was a bigger positive for the Cons than Corbyn was a negative for Labour. Eg, Hunt vs Corbyn would have been Cons by 25 to 30, Johnson vs Starmer would have been Cons by at least 60 and maybe still about 80.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
I am sure the continuation of the furlough scheme isn't helping the issue with staffing...there will be a fair number of people on furlough who in reality their jobs don't exist anymore.
Closing the furlough scheme, and moving people to regular unemployment benefits, is going to be a nightmare for the government, mostly because most of those left are going to be from a handful of industries and companies which they don’t want to be seen to subsidise explicitly. BA and EasyJet need to decide what to do with 10k pilots, as an example.
I am sure it is not a coincidence but Sky and the BBC seem to be avoiding the zero covid independence sage clique today
Finally realising that, after Zero Deaths Day, they’ll make themselves look like idiots if they keep pushing that line?
They will be regrouping with shifted goal posts...just as the other extemists kept doing last year when claiming things never as bad as seems. Actually Gupta still is trying to claim herd immunity was achieved, but some nonsense about there are different levels of herd immunity based on the season and variants...shakes head.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
If Tim Martin didn't realise that unskilled workers coming from Eastern Europe where the minimum wage is £1 per hour, to get 9x that per hour here, meant that his labour bill was suppressed - then that's on him. 🤷♂️
I haven't watched the Starmer interview - and probably won't because I'd have to see Morgan - but from write ups it sounds similar to his Desert Island Discs appearance. If so, good, because that was excellent.
But the million dollar question is to what extent "Boris" Johnson has changed the game. Do you now need to create a facetious comic persona in order to be PM material?
One hopes not, if one has an interest in the health of our democracy, but one can't be sure of this if one is honest. The Johnson brand is insidious. It's affecting people's synapses, some of them perfectly decent people.
The next year will tell us a lot and is so so important. I just can't emphasize enough how important this next year is going to be. It could go either way.
No, no, no. You don't have to be a personality of any sort to be PM. You need to be leading the party which is least out of tune with the mood of the nation. That's all.
People like Johnson because he's entertaining. He's good company. He's a good communicator. But people vote for him because they don't like the other lot.
In 2019 Boris was fortunate because 'the other lot' were not only a) a party of loons led by a certifiable madman, but also b) the hardcore Remain element.
A common narrative which I don't buy. I think that in addition to owning the Leave demographic Johnson has a strong and specific appeal to a certain type of voter - I'll call them the Shallow Apoliticals - who really do value the shitz and giggles he brings to the erstwhile rather serious game of big ticket national politics. As a proportion of the electorate it's enough to deliver a handsome majority under FPTP. That's where we are now. I'm hoping it'll change by the time of the next GE but I'd be more hopeful of that if Johnson were to piss off to write his memoirs and make millions doing cabaret on yachts and cruise ships. Some think he might do this. I know he won't. Sadly.
As for GE19, you need luck to win a landslide, of course you do, and this guy is lucky, no question, but it's a mistake imo to seek to explain the result that way. He and Cummings set up and then prosecuted that People vs Parliament Brexit election with a ruthless brilliance. The idea that if it weren't for Labour being led by Jeremy Corbyn it would have been close is for the birds. Johnson was a bigger positive for the Cons than Corbyn was a negative for Labour. Eg, Hunt vs Corbyn would have been Cons by 25 to 30, Johnson vs Starmer would have been Cons by at least 60 and maybe still about 80.
I rather disagree re-2019. Corbyn cost Labour 20 - 30 seats and by so doing added 40 - 60 to the Tory majority.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
At least with Brexit we have the option. Whether it becomes a bosses Brexit is the next fight.
Zero deaths. Even if case numbers go up a touch it isn't threatening to either life or the NHS for the remaining younger people who can get it. I asked questions last week of whether the new "delta"* strain would force a further delay.
But of course, deaths are lagging indicator. They are reflecting the case numbers when they were close to their minimum. Now cases are rising rapidly - currently increasing by 32% per week - and hospitalisations are following with a lag of only a few days - currently increasing by 23% a week.
It's stupid to say the link between cases and hospitalisations/deaths has been broken. The link is still there - it's just the constant of proportionality that is smaller. People really shouldn't kid themselves into thinking that if cases increase by any given factor, deaths won't do exactly the same.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
If Tim Martin didn't realise that unskilled workers coming from Eastern Europe where the minimum wage is £1 per hour, to get 9x that per hour here, meant that his labour bill was suppressed - then that's on him. 🤷♂️
It doesn't matter what the minimum wage is in Poland. If they are working in the UK then they have to be paid the UK minimum wage. That is the law.
To be honest there is no chance of Boris being interviewed by Morgan
Indeed if he is able to open the economy shortly and some normality returns to everyone's lives he will have a secure legacy of Brexit and Covid 19
I did not watch the programme but then I would not watch Morgan on any programme as I simply dislike him
I am sure some will have enjoyed his interview, but hs revelation he is close to the Clooney's will just affirm his left wing Metropolitan elite status with many
Boris tends to avoid being interviewed by anyone. He’s not really big on accountability.
It does not seem to be doing him any harm at present
The question is whether it does us any harm.
Well of course the same could be said of a future PM Starmer or indeed any future PM
It is of course coloured by one's own political views
I am talking about accountability. Boris doesn’t do it. Typically that’s seen as detrimental in a democracy.
He has faced a GE and the local elections and won handsomely, and that is the ultimate accountability of any politician
Subjecting oneself to thorough press scrutiny ought to be a prerequisite for high office. That it isn't is a sad reflection on the health of our politics. I don't absolve the Labour Party from its role in providing such a dismal alternative in 2019. But I can't remember a PM elected on the basis of such flimsy scrutiny before in my lifetime, and I think Johnson's performance in office is a reflection of that.
With respect you are understandably projecting your political attitude to Boris but in the end facing the public in a GE is the real test, and he obtained an 80 seat majority 18 months ago, and he did well in the locals with record results in Wales
As some are aware I would prefer Rishi as PM, but the consolation if I am being a wee bit flippant is to see just how infuriating Boris is to the left and those who hold the EU dear
That's a Trumpian mindset. Doesn't suit. You should try and slough it off.
Zero deaths. Even if case numbers go up a touch it isn't threatening to either life or the NHS for the remaining younger people who can get it. I asked questions last week of whether the new "delta"* strain would force a further delay.
But of course, deaths are lagging indicator. They are reflecting the case numbers when they were close to their minimum. Now cases are rising rapidly - currently increasing by 32% per week - and hospitalisations are following with a lag of only a few days - currently increasing by 23% a week.
It's stupid to say the link between cases and hospitalisations/deaths has been broken. The link is still there - it's just the constant of proportionality that is smaller. People really shouldn't kid themselves into thinking that if cases increase by any given factor, deaths won't do exactly the same.
You are using the same discredited percentage game
Absolute numbers and vaccination status of those in hospital has to be the only statistic that is relevant and is not misleading
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
If Tim Martin didn't realise that unskilled workers coming from Eastern Europe where the minimum wage is £1 per hour, to get 9x that per hour here, meant that his labour bill was suppressed - then that's on him. 🤷♂️
Tim Martin has two options - automation (via ordering Apps) to minimise the labour required and paying the new market rate for workers.
Sadly that market rate may be more than it used to be but hey that's the consequences of what he campaigned for.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
If Tim Martin didn't realise that unskilled workers coming from Eastern Europe where the minimum wage is £1 per hour, to get 9x that per hour here, meant that his labour bill was suppressed - then that's on him. 🤷♂️
Well quite. That he could hire immigrants willing to live in Zone 1 ‘bed space’ six to a room, for minimum wage, shouldn’t really have escaped him.
The suggestion is that London has lost 700k people in the last 15 months - 5% of which are rich people moving to ‘the country’ that are all over the media, and 95% are immigrants returning ‘home’.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
If Tim Martin didn't realise that unskilled workers coming from Eastern Europe where the minimum wage is £1 per hour, to get 9x that per hour here, meant that his labour bill was suppressed - then that's on him. 🤷♂️
It doesn't matter what the minimum wage is in Poland. If they are working in the UK then they have to be paid the UK minimum wage. That is the law.
It does matter. My second job, while a student at university, was as a cashier at McDonalds. It paid 50% more than the then minimum wage, which was what I'd earnt from the Co-Op before moving across to Maccies who also gave free food and drink too - a much better employer for an 18 year old student than the 'ethical' Co-Op chain was offering.
Over the past twenty years the proportion of jobs earning the minimum wage has massively increased. Partially that's the minimum wage increasing faster than inflation, but its also related to the influx of unskilled migrants willing to take those jobs for minimum wage.
The pressure to pay more than the minimum wage is suppressed if there's a near infinite pool of people able to come from elsewhere because the minimum wage is attractive to them.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
If Tim Martin didn't realise that unskilled workers coming from Eastern Europe where the minimum wage is £1 per hour, to get 9x that per hour here, meant that his labour bill was suppressed - then that's on him. 🤷♂️
Tim Martin has two options - automation (via ordering Apps) to minimise the labour required and paying the new market rate for workers.
Sadly that market rate may be more than it used to be but hey that's the consequences of what he campaigned for.
To be honest there is no chance of Boris being interviewed by Morgan
Indeed if he is able to open the economy shortly and some normality returns to everyone's lives he will have a secure legacy of Brexit and Covid 19
I did not watch the programme but then I would not watch Morgan on any programme as I simply dislike him
I am sure some will have enjoyed his interview, but hs revelation he is close to the Clooney's will just affirm his left wing Metropolitan elite status with many
Boris tends to avoid being interviewed by anyone. He’s not really big on accountability.
It does not seem to be doing him any harm at present
The question is whether it does us any harm.
Well of course the same could be said of a future PM Starmer or indeed any future PM
It is of course coloured by one's own political views
I am talking about accountability. Boris doesn’t do it. Typically that’s seen as detrimental in a democracy.
He has faced a GE and the local elections and won handsomely, and that is the ultimate accountability of any politician
Subjecting oneself to thorough press scrutiny ought to be a prerequisite for high office. That it isn't is a sad reflection on the health of our politics. I don't absolve the Labour Party from its role in providing such a dismal alternative in 2019. But I can't remember a PM elected on the basis of such flimsy scrutiny before in my lifetime, and I think Johnson's performance in office is a reflection of that.
With respect you are understandably projecting your political attitude to Boris but in the end facing the public in a GE is the real test, and he obtained an 80 seat majority 18 months ago, and he did well in the locals with record results in Wales
As some are aware I would prefer Rishi as PM, but the consolation if I am being a wee bit flippant is to see just how infuriating Boris is to the left and those who hold the EU dear
That's a Trumpian mindset. Doesn't suit. You should try and slough it off.
Maybe a bit naughty but at my time of life maybe allowances should be made !!!!!
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
If Tim Martin didn't realise that unskilled workers coming from Eastern Europe where the minimum wage is £1 per hour, to get 9x that per hour here, meant that his labour bill was suppressed - then that's on him. 🤷♂️
Well quite. That he could hire immigrants willing to live in Zone 1 ‘bed space’ six to a room, for minimum wage, shouldn’t really have escaped him.
The suggestion is that London has lost 700k people in the last 15 months - 5% of which are rich people moving to ‘the country’ that are all over the media, and 95% are immigrants returning ‘home’.
That is interesting. Do you have a link for that please?
Why do England always end up picking 4 right arm over seamers...and 3 of the 4 so often very similar pace.
Robinson bowling at 79mph....unless you can make it bend like an EU mandated banana, you aren't going to trouble test match batsmen.
Is there any reason (other than not being picked) for Sam Curran not playing? Left arm adds variation and his batting means he could be a fifth bowler batting 7 surely?
Aaaaand Robinson gets the first wicket
I am at Lords. Fantastic view from the Grandstand. Not sure about the roofs of the new Compton and Ed rich stands.. it looks like someone covered it in waffles
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
If Tim Martin didn't realise that unskilled workers coming from Eastern Europe where the minimum wage is £1 per hour, to get 9x that per hour here, meant that his labour bill was suppressed - then that's on him. 🤷♂️
It doesn't matter what the minimum wage is in Poland. If they are working in the UK then they have to be paid the UK minimum wage. That is the law.
If there is an oversupply of workers willing and able to work for that then he can pay it. If there is an undersupply then he will have to pay more.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
If Tim Martin didn't realise that unskilled workers coming from Eastern Europe where the minimum wage is £1 per hour, to get 9x that per hour here, meant that his labour bill was suppressed - then that's on him. 🤷♂️
It doesn't matter what the minimum wage is in Poland. If they are working in the UK then they have to be paid the UK minimum wage. That is the law.
It does matter. My second job, while a student at university, was as a cashier at McDonalds. It paid 50% more than the then minimum wage, which was what I'd earnt from the Co-Op before moving across to Maccies who also gave free food and drink too - a much better employer for an 18 year old student than the 'ethical' Co-Op chain was offering.
Over the past twenty years the proportion of jobs earning the minimum wage has massively increased. Partially that's the minimum wage increasing faster than inflation, but its also related to the influx of unskilled migrants willing to take those jobs for minimum wage.
The pressure to pay more than the minimum wage is suppressed if there's a near infinite pool of people able to come from elsewhere because the minimum wage is attractive to them.
Absolutely. If labour becomes scarcer (cf the construction sector) then wages will rise if the market still has an appetite to pay for the product. I'm sure that once Tim raises wages he will consider carefully whether to accept a lower profit margin or try to raise prices to determine the price elasticity of demand for beer.
I haven't watched the Starmer interview - and probably won't because I'd have to see Morgan - but from write ups it sounds similar to his Desert Island Discs appearance. If so, good, because that was excellent.
But the million dollar question is to what extent "Boris" Johnson has changed the game. Do you now need to create a facetious comic persona in order to be PM material?
One hopes not, if one has an interest in the health of our democracy, but one can't be sure of this if one is honest. The Johnson brand is insidious. It's affecting people's synapses, some of them perfectly decent people.
The next year will tell us a lot and is so so important. I just can't emphasize enough how important this next year is going to be. It could go either way.
You should watch the Starmer interview - it might cheer you up a bit.
On your other point, the last thing Starmer (or any other Labour leader) should do is to try to out-Boris Boris. There's no mileage in that; quite the reverse. Starmer should constantly be pointing out how much he is different from BJ; it is the contrast that could win through in the medium term, when folk tire of the BJ schtick.
Ok I will. I can edit out Morgan using fast forward.
Yes, I want Starmer to relax and be himself - a serious and very intelligent guy with a strong sense of public service and (imo) an engaging enough personality to go with a good character.
What will really cheer me up, though, is a hold of Batley & Spen and a 5 point poll revival by the end of the year. I am quite bullish on both of those.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
A society, a demos, requires everyone to have a stake in it.
Supermarket food is going to be cheaper as a result of Brexit, and eating out is going to be more expensive. People working in central London for £9 an hour is a thing of the past, because it’s simply not possible to live there and earn that little money. That’s a good thing.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
If Tim Martin didn't realise that unskilled workers coming from Eastern Europe where the minimum wage is £1 per hour, to get 9x that per hour here, meant that his labour bill was suppressed - then that's on him. 🤷♂️
It doesn't matter what the minimum wage is in Poland. If they are working in the UK then they have to be paid the UK minimum wage. That is the law.
If there is an oversupply of workers willing and able to work for that then he can pay it. If there is an undersupply then he will have to pay more.
Precisely.
Some people seem to have taken the minimum wage to be a maximum wage and think there's a divine right to fill jobs at no more than that.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
If Tim Martin didn't realise that unskilled workers coming from Eastern Europe where the minimum wage is £1 per hour, to get 9x that per hour here, meant that his labour bill was suppressed - then that's on him. 🤷♂️
Well quite. That he could hire immigrants willing to live in Zone 1 ‘bed space’ six to a room, for minimum wage, shouldn’t really have escaped him.
The suggestion is that London has lost 700k people in the last 15 months - 5% of which are rich people moving to ‘the country’ that are all over the media, and 95% are immigrants returning ‘home’.
That is interesting. Do you have a link for that please?
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
If Tim Martin didn't realise that unskilled workers coming from Eastern Europe where the minimum wage is £1 per hour, to get 9x that per hour here, meant that his labour bill was suppressed - then that's on him. 🤷♂️
It doesn't matter what the minimum wage is in Poland. If they are working in the UK then they have to be paid the UK minimum wage. That is the law.
If there is an oversupply of workers willing and able to work for that then he can pay it. If there is an undersupply then he will have to pay more.
Precisely.
Some people seem to have taken the minimum wage to be a maximum wage and think there's a divine right to fill jobs at no more than that.
It does yank my chain when vociferous Brexiteers like Tim Martin and Isabel Oakeshott start to complain about struggling to get "the staff".
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
A society, a demos, requires everyone to have a stake in it.
Supermarket food is going to be cheaper as a result of Brexit, and eating out is going to be more expensive. People working in central London for £9 an hour is a thing of the past, because it’s simply not possible to live there and earn that little money. That’s a good thing.
We shall see. I'm not 100% sure I know why Supermarket food will be cheaper as a result of Brexit (nor eating out more expensive) but the market will clear at the appropriate level.
If labour is scarce then wages will rise. That leaves employers a choice of two options. I am very interested to see which they choose.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
So the massive influx of competitors to the working class, thereby restricting their wage and increasing pressure and costs on housing etc. Compared to the benefits for the middle and upper class with cheaper labour and more people scrabbling for their buy to let shitholes is preferable for the majority of the country?
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
No idea why you're calling it Trumpton.
Plus of course the supermarkets are doing what they can to eliminate as many staff roles as possible.
I have a new Tesco Superstore that's just been developed near to me and it has quite a skeleton crew of staff compared to what they used to have but the customer service is actually better than any other supermarkets I go to. They've really rethought the self checkouts to remove all the bugbears: no scales* (so no irritating "your item is not on bagging scale" or "too much weight on bagging scale" errors stopping the checkouts. Plus there's a single touchscreen the staff member can use to authorise every checkout if Challenge 25 pops up and the shopper is obviously over 25 rather than waiting for a cashier to come to your own till to deal with it.
* Someone asked last time I mentioned this about weighing fresh produce. There's a scale by the tills that prints out barcodes once you've weighed the products so you just need to scan that barcode.
I haven't watched the Starmer interview - and probably won't because I'd have to see Morgan - but from write ups it sounds similar to his Desert Island Discs appearance. If so, good, because that was excellent.
But the million dollar question is to what extent "Boris" Johnson has changed the game. Do you now need to create a facetious comic persona in order to be PM material?
One hopes not, if one has an interest in the health of our democracy, but one can't be sure of this if one is honest. The Johnson brand is insidious. It's affecting people's synapses, some of them perfectly decent people.
The next year will tell us a lot and is so so important. I just can't emphasize enough how important this next year is going to be. It could go either way.
But Johnson was in serious difficulty in political terms a mere six months ago. I expect to see that again - within months rather than years.
Yes, the vaccines have a lot to answer for. And if that's what it mainly is, it will wear off.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
A society, a demos, requires everyone to have a stake in it.
Supermarket food is going to be cheaper as a result of Brexit, and eating out is going to be more expensive. People working in central London for £9 an hour is a thing of the past, because it’s simply not possible to live there and earn that little money. That’s a good thing.
We shall see. I'm not 100% sure I know why Supermarket food will be cheaper as a result of Brexit (nor eating out more expensive) but the market will clear at the appropriate level.
If labour is scarce then wages will rise. That leaves employers a choice of two options. I am very interested to see which they choose.
Three options: 1. Use less Labour 2. Pay Labour more 3. Invest in capital to replace Labour.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
A society, a demos, requires everyone to have a stake in it.
Supermarket food is going to be cheaper as a result of Brexit, and eating out is going to be more expensive. People working in central London for £9 an hour is a thing of the past, because it’s simply not possible to live there and earn that little money. That’s a good thing.
We shall see. I'm not 100% sure I know why Supermarket food will be cheaper as a result of Brexit (nor eating out more expensive) but the market will clear at the appropriate level.
If labour is scarce then wages will rise. That leaves employers a choice of two options. I am very interested to see which they choose.
Three options: 1. Use less Labour 2. Pay Labour more 3. Invest in capital to replace Labour.
To more of #3, the better for the economy.
Expect Britain's lack of productivity in the last two decades to suddenly vanish.
I'm looking to replace my webber bbq and the new ones talk to you via wifi. Good grief.
FPT, in response to a different comment:
I’m at an IT security Conference today, hence the pub lunch. I’ve spent the morning listening to speakers talking about IoT vulnerabilities among other things. It’s genuinely scary.
Not quite as scary as the targeted attacks on infrastructure, protecting against which is my day job right now, but scary what it could become in terms of massive botnets in the future.
Not an area of expertise for me I am afraid. I rely very much on the fact that (although I won't be buying a wifi controlled bbq) most of the info a hacker could glen from me would be at the level of me communicating with a bbq.
Which is fine until a virus turns your barbecue into a Bitcoin miner for a random hacker in China, using your electricity to do so and not caring if your device ends up catching fire in the process. Now, that’s an extreme scenario, but it’s not impossible.
I use a gas bbq!
Which is another reason it won't be having wifi and something I hadn't thought of. These are gas bbqs. Can't believe you have to plug them in, so I assume the wifi runs off batteries.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
A society, a demos, requires everyone to have a stake in it.
Supermarket food is going to be cheaper as a result of Brexit, and eating out is going to be more expensive. People working in central London for £9 an hour is a thing of the past, because it’s simply not possible to live there and earn that little money. That’s a good thing.
We shall see. I'm not 100% sure I know why Supermarket food will be cheaper as a result of Brexit (nor eating out more expensive) but the market will clear at the appropriate level.
If labour is scarce then wages will rise. That leaves employers a choice of two options. I am very interested to see which they choose.
Three options: 1. Use less Labour 2. Pay Labour more 3. Invest in capital to replace Labour.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
A society, a demos, requires everyone to have a stake in it.
Supermarket food is going to be cheaper as a result of Brexit, and eating out is going to be more expensive. People working in central London for £9 an hour is a thing of the past, because it’s simply not possible to live there and earn that little money. That’s a good thing.
We shall see. I'm not 100% sure I know why Supermarket food will be cheaper as a result of Brexit (nor eating out more expensive) but the market will clear at the appropriate level.
If labour is scarce then wages will rise. That leaves employers a choice of two options. I am very interested to see which they choose.
Three options: 1. Use less Labour 2. Pay Labour more 3. Invest in capital to replace Labour.
The more of #3, the better for the economy.
Rarely possible. Empirical evidence shows that factor substitutability is rather low (0.2 is a common estimate) and varies significantly between, and within, industries.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Pay them more.
As someone in a prior thread pointed out, low cost labour coming to the U.K. to drive down wages was a part of the reason for the brexit vote.
We have a decent minimum wage, so no it was not “low cost labour”.
Having young people from the EU coming to do such work was a win-win, filling the jobs at relatively low cost, whilst the value of the experience to the young Europeans was enhanced by the free language immersion they were getting on the side; second language fluency in English being a very valuable career skill for them. Not to mention the hopefully lifelong understanding and affinity with Britain they’d take back home. And fewer Europeans walking around speaking English with silly American accents.
Cutting ourselves off from this beneficial exchange was an own goal.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
So the massive influx of competitors to the working class, thereby restricting their wage and increasing pressure and costs on housing etc. Compared to the benefits for the middle and upper class with cheaper labour and more people scrabbling for their buy to let shitholes is preferable for the majority of the country?
Non-tesco-working working classes also have to buy groceries, etc, which takes more of their disposable income than those who are better off. A low cost basket of groceries benefits someone on the average wage (£28k?) more than it does someone who earns £500,000.
And I'm pretty sure that British plumbers weren't put out of work by Polish ones. It's just that the demand for plumbing was such that both were able to charge eye-watering prices. Now plumbing might be more expensive so that will disadvantage again those at the lower end of the income scale.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
No idea why you're calling it Trumpton.
Plus of course the supermarkets are doing what they can to eliminate as many staff roles as possible.
I have a new Tesco Superstore that's just been developed near to me and it has quite a skeleton crew of staff compared to what they used to have but the customer service is actually better than any other supermarkets I go to. They've really rethought the self checkouts to remove all the bugbears: no scales* (so no irritating "your item is not on bagging scale" or "too much weight on bagging scale" errors stopping the checkouts. Plus there's a single touchscreen the staff member can use to authorise every checkout if Challenge 25 pops up and the shopper is obviously over 25 rather than waiting for a cashier to come to your own till to deal with it.
* Someone asked last time I mentioned this about weighing fresh produce. There's a scale by the tills that prints out barcodes once you've weighed the products so you just need to scan that barcode.
It is Trumpton because, as Tim is finding out, someone has to pay. Otherwise why not pay Tesco staff half a bar a year? Either employers pay, or consumers.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
A society, a demos, requires everyone to have a stake in it.
Supermarket food is going to be cheaper as a result of Brexit, and eating out is going to be more expensive. People working in central London for £9 an hour is a thing of the past, because it’s simply not possible to live there and earn that little money. That’s a good thing.
We shall see. I'm not 100% sure I know why Supermarket food will be cheaper as a result of Brexit (nor eating out more expensive) but the market will clear at the appropriate level.
If labour is scarce then wages will rise. That leaves employers a choice of two options. I am very interested to see which they choose.
Three options: 1. Use less Labour 2. Pay Labour more 3. Invest in capital to replace Labour.
The more of #3, the better for the economy.
Absolutely as @Philip has noted with supermarkets replacing humans with robots. How is that helping the working classes who were previously disadvantaged by cheap foreign labour?
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
A society, a demos, requires everyone to have a stake in it.
Supermarket food is going to be cheaper as a result of Brexit, and eating out is going to be more expensive. People working in central London for £9 an hour is a thing of the past, because it’s simply not possible to live there and earn that little money. That’s a good thing.
We shall see. I'm not 100% sure I know why Supermarket food will be cheaper as a result of Brexit (nor eating out more expensive) but the market will clear at the appropriate level.
If labour is scarce then wages will rise. That leaves employers a choice of two options. I am very interested to see which they choose.
Three options: 1. Use less Labour 2. Pay Labour more 3. Invest in capital to replace Labour.
To more of #3, the better for the economy.
Expect Britain's lack of productivity in the last two decades to suddenly vanish.
Exactly. Even in my part of the world, where a person can cost $500 a month, they’re still investing in technology to replace people. The U.K. has learned to live with literally millions of unskilled immigrants adding negative productivity. The recovery is going to be based on many fewer jobs.
Edit: watch for more use of GDP/capita figures in the coming years, as the population drops.
I haven't watched the Starmer interview - and probably won't because I'd have to see Morgan - but from write ups it sounds similar to his Desert Island Discs appearance. If so, good, because that was excellent.
But the million dollar question is to what extent "Boris" Johnson has changed the game. Do you now need to create a facetious comic persona in order to be PM material?
One hopes not, if one has an interest in the health of our democracy, but one can't be sure of this if one is honest. The Johnson brand is insidious. It's affecting people's synapses, some of them perfectly decent people.
The next year will tell us a lot and is so so important. I just can't emphasize enough how important this next year is going to be. It could go either way.
The next year - one of a glorious return to freedom and economic revival - will be won by the leader who can best project sunny optimism and confidence in our national resurgence, so Sir Keir ... is probably screwed.
If there is a turn of the tide - as I think on balance there will be - one of the biggest boons is we'll get to see a different side of you. In place of remorseless overconfidence and ebullience will come doubt and introspection, and I sense a touch of endearing vulnerability.
Who would give the Prime Minister a reasonably sympathetic interview, which by the sound of it Piers did for SKS?
I think people are writing off SKS a little bit too early btw. There is a long way to go until the next election and “events” are coming a bit thick and fast so far since the last one. Having someone who is seen as boringly competent could very well be a great selling point.
I don’t know I’d go that far. I can’t quite see him leading Labour to government.
His job however was to restore normality and sanity after the Corbyn years so Labour will eventually be taken seriously again and not as a bunch of freeloading racists with small brains, greedy minds and gross self-centredness.
Remember, if Long Bailey had won we would in all probability be talking very seriously about a substantiallyincreased Tory majority next time. At that stage, we would have to ponder whether Labour could ever hope to return to power or whether their vote would fracture to the Lib Dems and Greens.
Starmer had killed that talk stone dead. He may never be PM. Probably won’t. But he has salvaged an opposition from Corbyn’s wreckage that looks, with faults and drawbacks, like something that will again a reasonably credible alternative party of government. And for that, he deserves all our heartfelt thanks.
Alternatively, Corbyn introduced the variance Labour need. Yes he got whacked in 2019 but he almost won in 2017. Miliband, Brown, and maybe Starmer, are continuity Blair without the charisma so can’t win, but don’t get a hiding.
It’s the difference between going to a Man City as a non top 4 club and defending for your life and getting beat 2-0 or going for a 4-3 win whilst risking a 6-0 loss
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
A society, a demos, requires everyone to have a stake in it.
Supermarket food is going to be cheaper as a result of Brexit, and eating out is going to be more expensive. People working in central London for £9 an hour is a thing of the past, because it’s simply not possible to live there and earn that little money. That’s a good thing.
We shall see. I'm not 100% sure I know why Supermarket food will be cheaper as a result of Brexit (nor eating out more expensive) but the market will clear at the appropriate level.
If labour is scarce then wages will rise. That leaves employers a choice of two options. I am very interested to see which they choose.
Increased automation, Japanese style, would make sense. So that's out, then.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Pay them more.
As someone in a prior thread pointed out, low cost labour coming to the U.K. to drive down wages was a part of the reason for the brexit vote.
We have a decent minimum wage, so no it was not “low cost labour”.
Having young people from the EU coming to do such work was a win-win, filling the jobs at relatively low cost, whilst the value of the experience to the young Europeans was enhanced by the free language immersion they were getting on the side; second language fluency in English being a very valuable career skill for them. Not to mention the hopefully lifelong understanding and affinity with Britain they’d take back home. And fewer Europeans walking around speaking English with silly American accents.
Cutting ourselves off from this beneficial exchange was an own goal.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
So the massive influx of competitors to the working class, thereby restricting their wage and increasing pressure and costs on housing etc. Compared to the benefits for the middle and upper class with cheaper labour and more people scrabbling for their buy to let shitholes is preferable for the majority of the country?
Non-tesco-working working classes also have to buy groceries, etc, which takes more of their disposable income than those who are better off. A low cost basket of groceries benefits someone on the average wage (£28k?) more than it does someone who earns £500,000.
And I'm pretty sure that British plumbers weren't put out of work by Polish ones. It's just that the demand for plumbing was such that both were able to charge eye-watering prices. Now plumbing might be more expensive so that will disadvantage again those at the lower end of the income scale.
Judging by the relentless amount of small building work and extensions going on in streets near me, we will need to import plenty of eu building types pretty soon. I never seen it so mad. Skips everywhere. Houses sold within a week, immediately a planning approval request made to add a 3m extension or convert the loft. New drives and paving everywhere.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
So the massive influx of competitors to the working class, thereby restricting their wage and increasing pressure and costs on housing etc. Compared to the benefits for the middle and upper class with cheaper labour and more people scrabbling for their buy to let shitholes is preferable for the majority of the country?
Non-tesco-working working classes also have to buy groceries, etc, which takes more of their disposable income than those who are better off. A low cost basket of groceries benefits someone on the average wage (£28k?) more than it does someone who earns £500,000.
And I'm pretty sure that British plumbers weren't put out of work by Polish ones. It's just that the demand for plumbing was such that both were able to charge eye-watering prices. Now plumbing might be more expensive so that will disadvantage again those at the lower end of the income scale.
Judging by the relentless amount of small building work and extensions going on in streets near me, we will need to import plenty of eu building types pretty soon. I never seen it so mad. Skips everywhere. Houses sold within a week, immediately a planning approval request made to add a 3m extension or convert the loft. New drives and paving everywhere.
Yep we have heard from @NerysHughes how crazy the construction sector is.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
A society, a demos, requires everyone to have a stake in it.
Supermarket food is going to be cheaper as a result of Brexit, and eating out is going to be more expensive. People working in central London for £9 an hour is a thing of the past, because it’s simply not possible to live there and earn that little money. That’s a good thing.
We shall see. I'm not 100% sure I know why Supermarket food will be cheaper as a result of Brexit (nor eating out more expensive) but the market will clear at the appropriate level.
If labour is scarce then wages will rise. That leaves employers a choice of two options. I am very interested to see which they choose.
Three options: 1. Use less Labour 2. Pay Labour more 3. Invest in capital to replace Labour.
To more of #3, the better for the economy.
Expect Britain's lack of productivity in the last two decades to suddenly vanish.
Exactly. Even in my part of the world, where a person can cost $500 a month, they’re still investing in technology to replace people. The U.K. has learned to live with literally millions of unskilled immigrants adding negative productivity. The recovery is going to be based on many fewer jobs.
Edit: watch for more use of GDP/capita figures in the coming years, as the population drops.
The thing is that any change in productivity won't be immediate and will be fought all the way (even though there is a hell of an tax incentive to invest at the moment). Tim Martin is just the first example of that.
Being blunt just about the only market sector where cheap imported labour should be being used is farming (simply because it's not possible to automate how things are at the moment).
For everything else the market needs to cope with the new labour market and start investing in productivity improvements.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
So the massive influx of competitors to the working class, thereby restricting their wage and increasing pressure and costs on housing etc. Compared to the benefits for the middle and upper class with cheaper labour and more people scrabbling for their buy to let shitholes is preferable for the majority of the country?
Non-tesco-working working classes also have to buy groceries, etc, which takes more of their disposable income than those who are better off. A low cost basket of groceries benefits someone on the average wage (£28k?) than it does someone who earns £500,000.
And I'm pretty sure that British plumbers weren't put out of work by Polish ones. It's just that the demand for plumbing was such that both were able to charge eye-watering prices. Now plumbing might be more expensive so that will disadvantage again those at the lower end of the income scale.
Why would Tesco prices go up significantly?
Especially when Tesco are investing in improving efficiency via having better self-checkouts etc so fewer staff are required to do the same job. Which improves productivity while keeping costs down.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
No idea why you're calling it Trumpton.
Plus of course the supermarkets are doing what they can to eliminate as many staff roles as possible.
I have a new Tesco Superstore that's just been developed near to me and it has quite a skeleton crew of staff compared to what they used to have but the customer service is actually better than any other supermarkets I go to. They've really rethought the self checkouts to remove all the bugbears: no scales* (so no irritating "your item is not on bagging scale" or "too much weight on bagging scale" errors stopping the checkouts. Plus there's a single touchscreen the staff member can use to authorise every checkout if Challenge 25 pops up and the shopper is obviously over 25 rather than waiting for a cashier to come to your own till to deal with it.
* Someone asked last time I mentioned this about weighing fresh produce. There's a scale by the tills that prints out barcodes once you've weighed the products so you just need to scan that barcode.
It is Trumpton because, as Tim is finding out, someone has to pay. Otherwise why not pay Tesco staff half a bar a year? Either employers pay, or consumers.
Marginally.
But improving productivity means fewer employees can earn more without hitting the consumers much.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
So the massive influx of competitors to the working class, thereby restricting their wage and increasing pressure and costs on housing etc. Compared to the benefits for the middle and upper class with cheaper labour and more people scrabbling for their buy to let shitholes is preferable for the majority of the country?
Non-tesco-working working classes also have to buy groceries, etc, which takes more of their disposable income than those who are better off. A low cost basket of groceries benefits someone on the average wage (£28k?) more than it does someone who earns £500,000.
And I'm pretty sure that British plumbers weren't put out of work by Polish ones. It's just that the demand for plumbing was such that both were able to charge eye-watering prices. Now plumbing might be more expensive so that will disadvantage again those at the lower end of the income scale.
Eye watering prices in comparison to who? University lecturer? IT contractor? What is it about manual labourers that some people feel don’t deserve to earn a decent living?
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
A society, a demos, requires everyone to have a stake in it.
Supermarket food is going to be cheaper as a result of Brexit, and eating out is going to be more expensive. People working in central London for £9 an hour is a thing of the past, because it’s simply not possible to live there and earn that little money. That’s a good thing.
We shall see. I'm not 100% sure I know why Supermarket food will be cheaper as a result of Brexit (nor eating out more expensive) but the market will clear at the appropriate level.
If labour is scarce then wages will rise. That leaves employers a choice of two options. I am very interested to see which they choose.
Three options: 1. Use less Labour 2. Pay Labour more 3. Invest in capital to replace Labour.
The more of #3, the better for the economy.
Absolutely as @Philip has noted with supermarkets replacing humans with robots. How is that helping the working classes who were previously disadvantaged by cheap foreign labour?
Because the humans who aren't replaced with robots can earn more.
I see in the Times this morning that Tim Martin from Weatherspoons is calling for a visa scheme for workers that favours countries that are geographically closer to the U.K. because pubs are struggling to find staff.
Yeah he can fuck off. Pay your workers!
And here is the clash between the immovable object and the unstoppable force. A significant number of Brexit voters think Poles (other types of forrin is available) dilute their wages so lets send them all home and get paid more. A significant number of Brexiteer business owners like Mr Martin wanted a bonfire of red tape so that we could be more like Singapore and have workers paid less and have less rights.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Many on here are of the first flavour. They see it as an unmitigated good for the working classes to have less foreign competition and hence wages will rise.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
So the massive influx of competitors to the working class, thereby restricting their wage and increasing pressure and costs on housing etc. Compared to the benefits for the middle and upper class with cheaper labour and more people scrabbling for their buy to let shitholes is preferable for the majority of the country?
Non-tesco-working working classes also have to buy groceries, etc, which takes more of their disposable income than those who are better off. A low cost basket of groceries benefits someone on the average wage (£28k?) than it does someone who earns £500,000.
And I'm pretty sure that British plumbers weren't put out of work by Polish ones. It's just that the demand for plumbing was such that both were able to charge eye-watering prices. Now plumbing might be more expensive so that will disadvantage again those at the lower end of the income scale.
Why would Tesco prices go up significantly?
Especially when Tesco are investing in improving efficiency via having better self-checkouts etc so fewer staff are required to do the same job. Which improves productivity while keeping costs down.
One reason will be external factors where cost pressures can no longer be passed back to the third parties who provide the services.
Logistics is one of those where Supermarkets can only manage to skip 1 delivery a week for so long - and that really is an industry where labour supply is rapidly becoming a problem, and it's not one that will be easily fixed.
Comments
Drove me mad as a youth just getting into senior cricket and could bowl 80mph and for the first season they used me 2nd change, so I got a bloody pudding to bowl with.
Thinking about getting in early for the open air swimming pool.
Do they all come with your face on - you win a competition or something?
For Boris, why the heck would he want to go anywhere near Pier Moron? Why would anyone who isn't desperate?
If would be beneficial for everyone if Tories applied their own standards to themselves. Just because won an election and popular doesn't mean we should put up with incompetent and wasteful government.
He's good at delegating.
He's good at "big picture" issues.
He's good at going for things others don't see as plausible and making them happen.
He got a renegotiated Brexit deal, others said would be impossible to get.
He got a trade deal in 11 months, others said would be impossible to get.
He got negotiations beginning with CPTPP, others said would be impossible to get.
Last year he got first authorised vaccinations on the entire planet, others said would be impossible to get.
He got best in the major nations world procurement of vaccines, others said would be impossible to get.
Then there's furlough, a deficit coming in under predictions and so on and so forth.
Pretty good record. 👍
Unless its £20k for that one sign and one bin? Even that sounds unlikely.
There’s a case to be made for short term visas for unskilled young ‘tourist-workers’, as they do in Australia, but there need to be the systems in place to manage that properly.
In the meantime, paying a pound an hour over NMW should sort out anyone’s staffing problems pretty quickly. No-one is going to complain if JDW put 10p on a pint, when most smaller pubs have put on £1 or more.
PS: Good morning to you also, well afternoon now.
However, the opposition need to pick their battles carefully. Most people accept that the government should say ‘does anyone know anyone who knows anyone who can get PPE for the NHS?’ at the start of a pandemic, when M. Macron has just impounded a few lorries full of masks and gloves.
Brexit won. But which Brexit? The one where Spoons pay their staff better? Or one where Spoons pay their staff less?
Also, those same political wonks: Why Won't The Prime Minister Allow The Press To Hold The Government To Account Properly???
Tomorrow they can return to form banging on about increasing (from zero) deaths. 🤦♂️
As for GE19, you need luck to win a landslide, of course you do, and this guy is lucky, no question, but it's a mistake imo to seek to explain the result that way. He and Cummings set up and then prosecuted that People vs Parliament Brexit election with a ruthless brilliance. The idea that if it weren't for Labour being led by Jeremy Corbyn it would have been close is for the birds. Johnson was a bigger positive for the Cons than Corbyn was a negative for Labour. Eg, Hunt vs Corbyn would have been Cons by 25 to 30, Johnson vs Starmer would have been Cons by at least 60 and maybe still about 80.
Time to warn Ireland of the disaster looming presumably.
Whether it becomes a bosses Brexit is the next fight.
It's stupid to say the link between cases and hospitalisations/deaths has been broken. The link is still there - it's just the constant of proportionality that is smaller. People really shouldn't kid themselves into thinking that if cases increase by any given factor, deaths won't do exactly the same.
Absolute numbers and vaccination status of those in hospital has to be the only statistic that is relevant and is not misleading
Sadly that market rate may be more than it used to be but hey that's the consequences of what he campaigned for.
https://youtu.be/vQJ1wSQAHSI
https://www.spiked-online.com/2021/06/02/the-unbearable-annoyingness-of-pride/
The suggestion is that London has lost 700k people in the last 15 months - 5% of which are rich people moving to ‘the country’ that are all over the media, and 95% are immigrants returning ‘home’.
Over the past twenty years the proportion of jobs earning the minimum wage has massively increased. Partially that's the minimum wage increasing faster than inflation, but its also related to the influx of unskilled migrants willing to take those jobs for minimum wage.
The pressure to pay more than the minimum wage is suppressed if there's a near infinite pool of people able to come from elsewhere because the minimum wage is attractive to them.
Beer, groceries more expensive for everyone (else)? Who cares is their line. The workers will be better off.
Let's see if this Trumpton version of economics actually works. We are privileged to be in such a real life experiment.
A fascinating experiment, as I said.
Yes, I want Starmer to relax and be himself - a serious and very intelligent guy with a strong sense of public service and (imo) an engaging enough personality to go with a good character.
What will really cheer me up, though, is a hold of Batley & Spen and a 5 point poll revival by the end of the year. I am quite bullish on both of those.
Supermarket food is going to be cheaper as a result of Brexit, and eating out is going to be more expensive. People working in central London for £9 an hour is a thing of the past, because it’s simply not possible to live there and earn that little money. That’s a good thing.
Some people seem to have taken the minimum wage to be a maximum wage and think there's a divine right to fill jobs at no more than that.
You campaigned for it, you voted for it - own it.
I do.
If labour is scarce then wages will rise. That leaves employers a choice of two options. I am very interested to see which they choose.
Plus of course the supermarkets are doing what they can to eliminate as many staff roles as possible.
I have a new Tesco Superstore that's just been developed near to me and it has quite a skeleton crew of staff compared to what they used to have but the customer service is actually better than any other supermarkets I go to. They've really rethought the self checkouts to remove all the bugbears: no scales* (so no irritating "your item is not on bagging scale" or "too much weight on bagging scale" errors stopping the checkouts. Plus there's a single touchscreen the staff member can use to authorise every checkout if Challenge 25 pops up and the shopper is obviously over 25 rather than waiting for a cashier to come to your own till to deal with it.
* Someone asked last time I mentioned this about weighing fresh produce. There's a scale by the tills that prints out barcodes once you've weighed the products so you just need to scan that barcode.
1. Use less Labour
2. Pay Labour more
3. Invest in capital to replace Labour.
The more of #3, the better for the economy.
Cutting ourselves off from this beneficial exchange was an own goal.
And I'm pretty sure that British plumbers weren't put out of work by Polish ones. It's just that the demand for plumbing was such that both were able to charge eye-watering prices. Now plumbing might be more expensive so that will disadvantage again those at the lower end of the income scale.
Edit: watch for more use of GDP/capita figures in the coming years, as the population drops.
It’s the difference between going to a Man City as a non top 4 club and defending for your life and getting beat 2-0 or going for a 4-3 win whilst risking a 6-0 loss
“Keir is filmed before a live studio audience”
Cheers
Being blunt just about the only market sector where cheap imported labour should be being used is farming (simply because it's not possible to automate how things are at the moment).
For everything else the market needs to cope with the new labour market and start investing in productivity improvements.
Especially when Tesco are investing in improving efficiency via having better self-checkouts etc so fewer staff are required to do the same job. Which improves productivity while keeping costs down.
But improving productivity means fewer employees can earn more without hitting the consumers much.
Logistics is one of those where Supermarkets can only manage to skip 1 delivery a week for so long - and that really is an industry where labour supply is rapidly becoming a problem, and it's not one that will be easily fixed.