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Fourteen months after becoming leader Starmer makes his first appearance in front of a live studio a

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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,972
    tlg86 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Best thing about the cricket today.

    There's a group of lads sat in the crowd with a 'Boundary Countback' sign, where they're keeping tally of the boundaries each side scores. You know, just in case it becomes important...

    Via the BBC website.

    According to TMS you can still buy an old-fashioned scorecard to fill in as the match progresses. They'd be better off learning how to do that.
    How do you know they can't?

    Speaking as a former scorer you'd be surprised by just how many people who can score.

    I'm a linear man myself.
    The single most boring thing about cricket in my opinion. I think I'd rather umpire and get abuse from the oppo's fast bowlers.
    I prefer umpiring as well.

    Being on the field is the best, I miss the sledging/banter from my playing days.

    Captain to his bowler: 'Bowl it straight, this f*cker would miss his own funeral' was my favourite.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    MaxPB said:

    Prof. Christina Pagel Retweeted
    BBC Politics
    @BBCPolitics
    ·
    1h
    "Actually we have 40% of the whole population with two [vaccine] doses - that's the figure we should be concentrating on"
    Christina Pagel, Independent SAGE, adds "I don't know what data [Boris Johnson's] looking at" but it's too early to know about 21 June


    Why don't BBC and Sky just set up a permanent studio in her living room?

    Hold on she's saying it's too early to know about June 21st, fine let's accept that. Then on the other side she's saying that date needs to be pushed back. Which is it?

    She really strikes me as a complete wanker.
    Surely an incomplete wanker? A complete one would have a brain.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,679
    Roger said:

    I've not got time to read the 500 previous posts but I imagine the sense is he's got about six months to make an impression.

    What he's got going for him is that his opponent is a liar a freeloader, amoral,incompetent and all round a pretty disgusting human being. Obviously the public have had other things to concentrate on but the mist is clearing fast and revealing an emperor without even a pair of speedos.

    So it's up to Sir Keir. He seems honest and we know him to be bright. Certainly brighter than Johnson. His back story is much more impressive which might get some attention now.

    I'm starting to feel optimistic again.

    Well when you put it like that ... so do I.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    tlg86 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Best thing about the cricket today.

    There's a group of lads sat in the crowd with a 'Boundary Countback' sign, where they're keeping tally of the boundaries each side scores. You know, just in case it becomes important...

    Via the BBC website.

    According to TMS you can still buy an old-fashioned scorecard to fill in as the match progresses. They'd be better off learning how to do that.
    How do you know they can't?

    Speaking as a former scorer you'd be surprised by just how many people who can score.

    I'm a linear man myself.
    The single most boring thing about cricket in my opinion. I think I'd rather umpire and get abuse from the oppo's fast bowlers.
    I prefer umpiring as well.

    Being on the field is the best, I miss the sledging/banter from my playing days.

    Captain to his bowler: 'Bowl it straight, this f*cker would miss his own funeral' was my favourite.
    Teammate to caller. ‘He’s just gone in to bat. If you wait he’ll be back any second.’
  • LennonLennon Posts: 1,782
    Hmm... Just had an interesting text from my local GP Federation. Had my 1st jab (AZ) at the very end of April and have just been invited for my 2nd one on Sat - which is just shy of a 6 week gap. Am I better accepting the invite and having the 2nd dose that fast, or better to try and push it out a couple of weeks to at least get to the 8 week mark even if not the 12 week one?

    I also wonder if this is because they are struggling to get people to come for 1st doses and so are pulling 2nd doses closer and closer (beyond where it really makes sense) or some other reason.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,137
    On the other hand the maths wallahs seem to be starting to tweet about a 75% transmissibility advantage for Indian (delta):

    James Ward
    @JamesWard73
    stunning piece of work by
    @alexselby1770
    here, confirming a likely transmissibility gain of ~70-75% for the Delta variant (B.1.617.2) vs. Alpha (B.1.1.7). I find myself simultaneously loving the analysis, and hating the conclusion.

    https://twitter.com/JamesWard73/status/1400050154758103042
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    Will the #lockdown in England be lifted as scheduled on June 21? (% Likely)

    30 April - 2 May: 73%
    21 May - 23 May: 58%

    Down 15 ppts


    https://twitter.com/IpsosMORI/status/1400035436949655556?s=20

    That's after a huge onslaught from the zero COVID chumps for weeks. The zero deaths day yesterday was perfect timing, it really was the emperor has no clothes moment IMO. Their constant lies and propaganda about it all became ridiculous last night.

    Not a single one of them can answer the simple question about who exactly is going to die of COVID in the next wave. That one idiot has numbers of 15k with 7m(!) infections. It's a complete joke.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,651

    BigRich said:

    rcs1000 said:

    gealbhan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Uh oh....."Green List"

    Predictably Portugal is now entering a new Covid wave. 724 cases today. Other EU countries will join a bit later, just like in January

    https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1400095556811296775?s=20

    I doubt the rest of the EU will follow.

    Portugal's growth is from a very low case level: on a population adjusted basis, they're at about 4,000 cases a day which is only just above where we are.

    And the rest of the EU is going to keep jabbing, and that means there are simply fewer and fewer people for the virus to infect. And the ones it is most likely to infect are the younger and less vulnerable ones. In other words, we're going to see a decoupling of infections and hospitalisations.

    It's worth noting that that is exactly what happened in the US. They saw a wave between mid-March and mid-April, when their vaccination numbers were about not a million miles from the where the EU's are today, but they opened up in almost all states: daily cases went from 35,000 to 70,000, but hospitalisation and death numbers kept falling.

    The EU is actually a little further along than the US was in mid-March, so I doubt they'll see quite such a big case increase, but the hospitalisations and deaths number will likely keep dropping.
    Absolutely!!

    The EU is where we were in March and we should have opened up then. We've pissed away 3 months for nothing but fear.

    The EU are in the right here. They've watched what happened in the USA, watched what happened in the UK and they're not going to make the same mistakes we made.

    They've made enough of their own mistakes but they're not repeating ours. Good for them!
    I absolutely hate COVID and hate what the hell is going on. I hate lockdowns.

    I do think some of you on here make it sound too easy for politicians, you don’t get how difficult the politics of COVID is for politicians, political decisions that weighing the lesser of evils, with choices like either this or that downsides.

    For example, in part due to press pressure, you don’t touch Freedom Day, you declare Freedom from COVID. but in third wave the hospitalisations and deaths rise, the electorate call you the murderer - the press won’t protect you, they don’t do subtle, they don’t weigh the lesser, it’s all black and white in world of politics and public opinion.

    Boris definitely does not need you as his advisor, he needs me.
    The point is that we can see that the US opened up, and it was OK.

    Even bits of the US where you'd expect there to be big potential problems because of lots of public transport and high density housing (like NYC) are doing great.

    It seems extraordinary that people are unwilling to look beyond Bolton to see the lessons of vaccination.

    And - of course - I would suggest everyone looks at Israel, where they are even reopening their tourist industry (albeit only to the vaccinated) and where daily cases are effectively zero.
    At first glance n the UK it looks like the lockdowns worked, when we had Lockdowns cases fell and when we did not cases rose. I get this. I understand why many think this, but IMHO it is wrong, cases where falling before each of the 3 lockdowns came in to place, and where rising before the second lockdown ended.

    The first lockdown it is hard to say for sure, because the number of tests was small but rising rapidly. but deaths peeked 2 weeks after the lockdown and as there is normally 4 week lag between infection and death, incidentally they peeked on the same day that deaths in Sweden peeked.

    For the second, cases were defiantly falling, if slowly before the Lockdown in England, and continued to fall in Scotland where there was no lockdown.

    cases had started to rise just before the 2nd lockdown ended, that may look just like a couple of days data, but the rise was IMHO mostly because of the new strain, the Kent variant, more than the end of the lockdown.

    And again with the tired lockdown, being Christmas/new year there was a big delay with repotting of cases, but if you look at the NHS data sorted by date the sample was taken not the day it was reported on then 29 Dec was peek, with a seven day average peeked 27 Dec. not convinced? well hospital additions peeked 2 days after the lockdown started, but it takes a lot longer that 2 days between infection and hospitalisation, 2 weeks being about the norm, so again indication that infection had peeked and was coming down.

    The normal courses of events is: cases rise, that gets in to the media, especially local media, people se that, or hear of friends/relatives that have it and modify there behaver, especially the most venerable. meanwhile, burocrats gather the numbers, then look at them, then discuss them, them come up with recommendation that are put to Politian's, then a decision is made and eventually implemented, by which time cases are falling.

    I'm not saying that the Lockdowns had no effect, just a lot less than is in the popular imagination, including that of both Independent SAGE, real SAGE, Matt Handcock and BBC.

    When Texas Opened up dully back in mid march, they were called Neadatholes By the US President, but nothing bad happened. when we opened schools here, again nothing happed. the rise over the last 3 weeks here, has IMHO very little to do with the re-opening that happened and is entirely or almost entirely down to a new variant.

    But I get it that I am a lonely voice in these opinions, and I Understand why people disagree with me.
    I wa talking about the peak of infections of the first wave being before the first lockdown a year ago.

    I have no doubt that lockdowns help reduce infection but the actual facts are that cases peaked before the first lockdown.

    I do think that humans think that we can control what this virus does, but the evidence does not back that up, other than with vaccines.

    India is a prime example, there is no social distancing there, yet cases became very low in Jan/Feb and then increased very quickly in March/April, they are now coming down equally as quickly. I know there is a new variant there, but why are cases coming down so quickly now?
    Because people change their behaviour when they're scared?

    Even in shantytowns, people can decide not to leave their shack.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492

    Recovery commissioner Sir Kevan Collins has written to the prime minister Boris Johnson to offer his resignation this afternoon.

    Sir Kevan was unveiled by Boris Johnson as the government's catch-up tsar just five months ago, tasked with overseeing the creation of a plan that would ensure pupils could recover after two periods of school closures during the coronavirus pandemic.

    Tes can reveal Sir Kevan's letter in full:


    https://www.tes.com/news/exclusive-sir-kevan-collins-resigns-over-catch-plan

    If we ended all restrictions now, and ended the Furlough scheme at the end of this month not wait till the end of October, we could probably save the full £15B his plan would require.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The US government announced Wednesday it is suspending for six months any punitive tariffs on Britain, India and four European nations while it works to resolve a dispute over digital services taxes.

    "The United States is focused on finding a multilateral solution to a range of key issues related to international taxation, including our concerns with digital services taxes," US Trade Representative Katherine Tai said in a statement.

    The suspension, which applies to Austria, Italy, Spain and Turkey, comes at the conclusion of year-long investigation into taxes which Washington said discriminated against big US tech companies like Apple, Amazon, Google and Facebook.


    https://news.yahoo.com/us-suspends-tariffs-uk-india-150106858.html
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337
    MaxPB said:

    Prof. Christina Pagel Retweeted
    BBC Politics
    @BBCPolitics
    ·
    1h
    "Actually we have 40% of the whole population with two [vaccine] doses - that's the figure we should be concentrating on"
    Christina Pagel, Independent SAGE, adds "I don't know what data [Boris Johnson's] looking at" but it's too early to know about 21 June


    Why don't BBC and Sky just set up a permanent studio in her living room?

    Hold on she's saying it's too early to know about June 21st, fine let's accept that. Then on the other side she's saying that date needs to be pushed back. Which is it?

    She really strikes me as a complete wanker.
    The last year has shown that there are significant number of academics in British universities who have no concept of the disrepute that they are causing. Is it a management weakness or does the management simply not give a shit?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021
    The Boris doing some propaganda... disappointing no flag.

    https://youtu.be/F-d12Xm1TfI
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,651

    Prof. Christina Pagel Retweeted
    BBC Politics
    @BBCPolitics
    ·
    1h
    "Actually we have 40% of the whole population with two [vaccine] doses - that's the figure we should be concentrating on"
    Christina Pagel, Independent SAGE, adds "I don't know what data [Boris Johnson's] looking at" but it's too early to know about 21 June


    Why don't BBC and Sky just set up a permanent studio in her living room?

    Given that Moderna and Pfizer are about 85-90% effective two weeks after the first dose (and these dominate our current first doses), this is a monumental moving of the goal posts by Ms Pagel.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    gealbhan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    gealbhan said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Uh oh....."Green List"

    Predictably Portugal is now entering a new Covid wave. 724 cases today. Other EU countries will join a bit later, just like in January

    https://twitter.com/MacaesBruno/status/1400095556811296775?s=20

    I doubt the rest of the EU will follow.

    Portugal's growth is from a very low case level: on a population adjusted basis, they're at about 4,000 cases a day which is only just above where we are.

    And the rest of the EU is going to keep jabbing, and that means there are simply fewer and fewer people for the virus to infect. And the ones it is most likely to infect are the younger and less vulnerable ones. In other words, we're going to see a decoupling of infections and hospitalisations.

    It's worth noting that that is exactly what happened in the US. They saw a wave between mid-March and mid-April, when their vaccination numbers were about not a million miles from the where the EU's are today, but they opened up in almost all states: daily cases went from 35,000 to 70,000, but hospitalisation and death numbers kept falling.

    The EU is actually a little further along than the US was in mid-March, so I doubt they'll see quite such a big case increase, but the hospitalisations and deaths number will likely keep dropping.
    Absolutely!!

    The EU is where we were in March and we should have opened up then. We've pissed away 3 months for nothing but fear.

    The EU are in the right here. They've watched what happened in the USA, watched what happened in the UK and they're not going to make the same mistakes we made.

    They've made enough of their own mistakes but they're not repeating ours. Good for them!
    I absolutely hate COVID and hate what the hell is going on. I hate lockdowns.

    I do think some of you on here make it sound too easy for politicians, you don’t get how difficult the politics of COVID is for politicians, political decisions that weighing the lesser of evils, with choices like either this or that downsides.

    For example, in part due to press pressure, you don’t touch Freedom Day, you declare Freedom from COVID. but in third wave the hospitalisations and deaths rise, the electorate call you the murderer - the press won’t protect you, they don’t do subtle, they don’t weigh the lesser, it’s all black and white in world of politics and public opinion.

    Boris definitely does not need you as his advisor, he needs me.
    The point is that we can see that the US opened up, and it was OK.

    Even bits of the US where you'd expect there to be big potential problems because of lots of public transport and high density housing (like NYC) are doing great.

    It seems extraordinary that people are unwilling to look beyond Bolton to see the lessons of vaccination.

    And - of course - I would suggest everyone looks at Israel, where they are even reopening their tourist industry (albeit only to the vaccinated) and where daily cases are effectively zero.
    I absolutely respect everything you say. You say it was opened up and everything proved okay. But these things do waves don’t they?

    Mohdhi boasted of beating Covid not so long ago.

    Do I sound grumpy? I’m cheesed off the mess of the Third Wave is going to coincide with summer pursuits. 😷

    But Everyday you Libertarians are piling it on, like it’s so straightforward

    Go ahead with Freedom Day PM Bob, couple of weeks later in Third Wave, that incidentally you haven’t manufactured it’s just what these things do, hospitalisations and deaths mounting all over place, where have you got to go, Prime minister? Other than “measures”. Exactly. How painful will that be.

    All I am saying is we are all hurting, probably dying of some lockdown related crap without even realising it. But it’s not that easy for those calling the shots in all our best interest, cut them some slack.

    Do you really think the decisions are so black and white?

    If the scientists say it’s Third Wave, then let’s see how our wall stands up to it before claiming victory.
    Is it easy to make decisions? No, things will be right or wrong in hindsight.

    Self-evidently in hindsight the USA was right to unlock in March and we were wrong not to. But in March the government couldn't have known that for certain, so while I've been pissed off by their cowardice I fully understand it.

    But we're now no longer operating purely with hindsight and governments should learn lessons from those who've gone before them. The UK knows that it can unlock confidently and safely - Israel and the USA have before us.

    The EU knows it can unlock confidently and safely, based on the USA doing so before it. They don't need to repeat our mistaken cowardice in hiding behind restrictions for three whole months too late because that path has already been trodden and shown to be unnecessary.
    Does that surrender enough respect to the wave pattern of these things? Even without vaccines it looked like our first lockdown had kicked it.

    I think vaccine wall we built will work against the next wave at least. Yet, if I was in the PMs ear right now, if you were PM your ear, I would advise, the scientists and statto’s say it’s Third Wave, let’s see how our wall stands up to it before claiming victory, rather than do that the other way around. I think that’s sage political advice.
    Its absolute bullshit that pretends the vaccines don't work.

    Please give a single reason why Israel and the USA were capable of opening up with a situation much, much worse than ours when they did (both in case numbers and vaccination rates) many months ago and they've not seen a third wave that has overloaded their healthcare systems or led to a lockdown.

    If all you have are catchphrases like "caution" and "third wave" and completely ignore the evidence then there's nothing more to say.
    Because between waves you could have done zilch and look like you are winning? That’s true isn’t it?

    I am not saying vaccines don’t work, I’m saying politically they should test it on a wave and then claim victory, than claim victory before wave hits. It’s a political caution, Philip, I’m personally convinced of the science.

    But politicians should only let science advise, as part of a bigger picture. You are saying that is wrong?
    Its been tested. 🤦‍♂️

    Its been tested in Israel and the USA. With them having higher cases and lower vaccinations and lower antibodies than we've got now.

    What more testing is necessary to convince you?
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,069
    Oh bollocks...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9644785/England-cricket-debutant-Ollie-Robinsons-historic-racist-sexist-tweets-emerge.html

    "England cricket's hero debutant Ollie Robinson's historic racist and sexist tweets emerge during his first Test at Lord's, mocking Asians and Muslims in a series of messages from when he was 18"
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    rcs1000 said:

    Prof. Christina Pagel Retweeted
    BBC Politics
    @BBCPolitics
    ·
    1h
    "Actually we have 40% of the whole population with two [vaccine] doses - that's the figure we should be concentrating on"
    Christina Pagel, Independent SAGE, adds "I don't know what data [Boris Johnson's] looking at" but it's too early to know about 21 June


    Why don't BBC and Sky just set up a permanent studio in her living room?

    Given that Moderna and Pfizer are about 85-90% effective two weeks after the first dose (and these dominate our current first doses), this is a monumental moving of the goal posts by Ms Pagel.
    I didn't think it was quite that high against the variants, hence why the big push to get 2nd doses asap.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Prof. Christina Pagel Retweeted
    BBC Politics
    @BBCPolitics
    ·
    1h
    "Actually we have 40% of the whole population with two [vaccine] doses - that's the figure we should be concentrating on"
    Christina Pagel, Independent SAGE, adds "I don't know what data [Boris Johnson's] looking at" but it's too early to know about 21 June


    Why don't BBC and Sky just set up a permanent studio in her living room?

    Given that Moderna and Pfizer are about 85-90% effective two weeks after the first dose (and these dominate our current first doses), this is a monumental moving of the goal posts by Ms Pagel.
    Of course it is, that's what they have got left. The data doesn't support extending any measures so they have to try and push some new angle. These people seem to get off on keeping everyone locked away. I don't understand it at all.
    After all the children are jabbed it will be "But what about foetuses?"
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Prof. Christina Pagel Retweeted
    BBC Politics
    @BBCPolitics
    ·
    1h
    "Actually we have 40% of the whole population with two [vaccine] doses - that's the figure we should be concentrating on"
    Christina Pagel, Independent SAGE, adds "I don't know what data [Boris Johnson's] looking at" but it's too early to know about 21 June


    Why don't BBC and Sky just set up a permanent studio in her living room?

    Given that Moderna and Pfizer are about 85-90% effective two weeks after the first dose (and these dominate our current first doses), this is a monumental moving of the goal posts by Ms Pagel.
    Of course it is, that's what they have got left. The data doesn't support extending any measures so they have to try and push some new angle. These people seem to get off on keeping everyone locked away. I don't understand it at all.
    They're media whores getting off on the media attention - and the media only gives attention to zero covid contrarians.

    Stop banging the zero covid drum and they'll cease to be interesting to the media.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited June 2021

    Fernando said:

    I recollect a desperate William Hague going on the Parkinson show after becoming party leader. It had negligible effect the public’s perception of him and certainly didn’t improve his ratings. I can’t see Starmer faring any better.

    Doubt it will do him any harm, but it is merely avoiding his real issue: how to make the Labour brand relevant for the 21st century. Most social democratic parties are struggling. Some really struggling.

    Where is the vision? Where is the big picture?
    I’ve been thinking about that since I read your post... the only answer I come up with is ‘Boris’s Tories’ - they are Blue Labour, and that’s what Labour should be.

    It’s probably why Sir Keir can’t disagree with the main thrust of Boris’s policies - they are pretty centre ground, he has given the Leave voters a hearing which Labour sought to deny them, and the people that hate him are thought of as woke types, rightly or wrongly

    All Sir Keir can do is try and take him on personally, and as I have banged in about, I don’t think that’s a battle he can win
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,972
    CatMan said:

    Oh bollocks...

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-9644785/England-cricket-debutant-Ollie-Robinsons-historic-racist-sexist-tweets-emerge.html

    "England cricket's hero debutant Ollie Robinson's historic racist and sexist tweets emerge during his first Test at Lord's, mocking Asians and Muslims in a series of messages from when he was 18"

    In his defence, I've described myself as 'da bomb'.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    edited June 2021
    Worth noting the age breakdown on next Labour leader poll:

    18-24: Burnham 10%
    25-34: Burnham 9%

    55-64: Burnham 26%
    65+: Burnham 34%

    So Burnham very much more popular with older people - where Labour badly needs to improve.

    Amongst everyone under 35, Burnham is no more popular than Phillips, Lammy or even Thornberry - all are approx tied.

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1400044622013997061/photo/1

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    Recovery commissioner Sir Kevan Collins has written to the prime minister Boris Johnson to offer his resignation this afternoon.

    Sir Kevan was unveiled by Boris Johnson as the government's catch-up tsar just five months ago, tasked with overseeing the creation of a plan that would ensure pupils could recover after two periods of school closures during the coronavirus pandemic.

    Tes can reveal Sir Kevan's letter in full:


    https://www.tes.com/news/exclusive-sir-kevan-collins-resigns-over-catch-plan

    What a surprise. Not.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    Blimey, England are further behind the over rate than Jacob Rees Mogg is modernity.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    BBC still pushing the same narrative...75% vaccinated not enough.

    BBC News - Covid-19: Lack of queue jumping helped vaccine drive, says Matt Hancock
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57336316
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,079
    MikeL said:

    Worth noting the age breakdown on next Labour leader poll:

    18-24: Burnham 10%
    25-34: Burnham 9%

    55-64: Burnham 26%
    65+: Burnham 34%

    So Burnham very much more popular with older people - where Labour badly needs to improve.

    Amongst everyone under 35, Burnham is no more popular than Phillips, Lammy or even Thornberry - all are approx tied.

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1400044622013997061/photo/1

    Possible reason: name recognition. Burnham was a name before the political memory of many younger voters.

    Not that that invalidates your point.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021
    Well England's plan of using Wood as the explosive bowler who doesn't do a heavy workload, with Robinson plugging away the overs....he has bowled most overs and didn't even get the ball until 16 overs gone.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    BBC still pushing the same narrative...75% vaccinated not enough.

    BBC News - Covid-19: Lack of queue jumping helped vaccine drive, says Matt Hancock
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57336316

    That, and the "But it's ONLY 90% effective!" bleat rearing its ugly head again.

    Sometimes makes you wonder why we even bothered with the sodding vaccines, if we're meant to be pissing our pants and locking down for eternity regardless.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021

    BBC still pushing the same narrative...75% vaccinated not enough.

    BBC News - Covid-19: Lack of queue jumping helped vaccine drive, says Matt Hancock
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57336316

    That, and the "But it's ONLY 90% effective!" bleat rearing its ugly head again.

    Sometimes makes you wonder why we even bothered with the sodding vaccines, if we're meant to be pissing our pants and locking down for eternity regardless.
    Of course, most people don't even understand efficacy...i.e. fairly certain people think 10 people meet a plague carrier, 1 gets it...which of course isn't what it means.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,956
    "Record numbers of migrants expected to cross Channel this year

    George Grylls, Political Reporter"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/record-numbers-of-migrants-expected-to-cross-channel-this-year-l7mm3hc3v
  • MaffewMaffew Posts: 235

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Prof. Christina Pagel Retweeted
    BBC Politics
    @BBCPolitics
    ·
    1h
    "Actually we have 40% of the whole population with two [vaccine] doses - that's the figure we should be concentrating on"
    Christina Pagel, Independent SAGE, adds "I don't know what data [Boris Johnson's] looking at" but it's too early to know about 21 June


    Why don't BBC and Sky just set up a permanent studio in her living room?

    Given that Moderna and Pfizer are about 85-90% effective two weeks after the first dose (and these dominate our current first doses), this is a monumental moving of the goal posts by Ms Pagel.
    Of course it is, that's what they have got left. The data doesn't support extending any measures so they have to try and push some new angle. These people seem to get off on keeping everyone locked away. I don't understand it at all.
    After all the children are jabbed it will be "But what about foetuses?"
    Nah it'll be booster doses. Then it'll be winter and flu season.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Cookie said:

    MikeL said:

    Worth noting the age breakdown on next Labour leader poll:

    18-24: Burnham 10%
    25-34: Burnham 9%

    55-64: Burnham 26%
    65+: Burnham 34%

    So Burnham very much more popular with older people - where Labour badly needs to improve.

    Amongst everyone under 35, Burnham is no more popular than Phillips, Lammy or even Thornberry - all are approx tied.

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1400044622013997061/photo/1

    Possible reason: name recognition. Burnham was a name before the political memory of many younger voters.

    Not that that invalidates your point.
    Burnham's name a decade ago was as a bad joke though.

    Williamson levels bad.

    The turnaround in Burnham's ratings both speaks a lot of credit to him and shows just how low the Labour Party have fallen that he looks like a bigwig.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    MaxPB said:

    Prof. Christina Pagel Retweeted
    BBC Politics
    @BBCPolitics
    ·
    1h
    "Actually we have 40% of the whole population with two [vaccine] doses - that's the figure we should be concentrating on"
    Christina Pagel, Independent SAGE, adds "I don't know what data [Boris Johnson's] looking at" but it's too early to know about 21 June


    Why don't BBC and Sky just set up a permanent studio in her living room?

    Hold on she's saying it's too early to know about June 21st, fine let's accept that. Then on the other side she's saying that date needs to be pushed back. Which is it?

    She really strikes me as a complete wanker.
    "Which is it?"

    I strongly suspect the answer is "push back". Indeed, iirc she was saying two weeks ago it needs to be pushed back at least two weeks probably longer so that the government can collect more data about the variant.

    The truth is that indie SAGE want lockdown to continue until everyone including all children have been double vaccinated and then they can start to demand an autumn lockdown as we wait for data on whether the booster vaccine works and so on and on.

    Someone at the BBC needs to ask them how they envisage a functioning society again under their view of the world?
    With social distancing and masks for all eternity, because otherwise people will die of respiratory illnesses and we would've brutally murdered them for want of trying hard enough. I think that's where they are. And then they'd be on to prohibition of tobacco and alcohol, and extensive state regulation of the nutritional content of food. The public health Taliban, with absolutely zero interest in anything that makes life actually worth living.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    edited June 2021

    Cookie said:

    MikeL said:

    Worth noting the age breakdown on next Labour leader poll:

    18-24: Burnham 10%
    25-34: Burnham 9%

    55-64: Burnham 26%
    65+: Burnham 34%

    So Burnham very much more popular with older people - where Labour badly needs to improve.

    Amongst everyone under 35, Burnham is no more popular than Phillips, Lammy or even Thornberry - all are approx tied.

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1400044622013997061/photo/1

    Possible reason: name recognition. Burnham was a name before the political memory of many younger voters.

    Not that that invalidates your point.
    Burnham's name a decade ago was as a bad joke though.

    Williamson levels bad.

    The turnaround in Burnham's ratings both speaks a lot of credit to him and shows just how low the Labour Party have fallen that he looks like a bigwig.
    Now be fair. Burnham’s mishandling of the Mid Staffs scandal was farcical and appalling, but nobody has ever accused him of treason.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,972
    This is why pride month matters, because we need to keep on fighting the good fight against bigotry.

    It could be viewed as a dramatic demonstration of the concept of karma: a group of young boaters hurling homophobic abuse towards another vessel flying gay pride flags, then needing to be rescued by their intended victims when their own boat explodes into a ball of flame.

    Sunday’s incident on Washington state’s Lake Moses occurred two days before the start of June, which is known as gay pride month because of demonstrations and celebrations centered on the annual pride parades in cities around the world to commemorate the Stonewall uprising for LGBTQ equal rights in New York in 1969.

    Video of last weekend’s happenings has gone viral on TikTok, amassing more than 8m views and prompting an investigation by the Grant county sheriff Tom Jones.

    “We got them out of the water safely, we were nicer than they were,” the video’s author posted alongside the clip, noting that the three people rescued, two men and a woman, did not offer any thanks.

    According to an account of the incident in the Washington Post, a boater named Robbie, who did not give his last name for fear of retaliation, was enjoying a day on the lake swimming, tubing and listening to music with his brother and two friends. He said their boat was displaying a variety of gay pride and rainbow flags.

    At about 7pm he said they noticed another boat passing by with its occupants yelling at them. “I could clearly hear the words gays and flags being shouted from their boat,” he told the Post.

    The video shows a woman in the boat flipping her middle finger as they sped by, and according to Robbie the boat made a sharp turn and then circled around them at least six times, spraying water onto them and causing their boat to rock.

    The boat sped away, he said, and seconds later they heard an explosion and saw black smoke rising from the other vessel.

    “Holy crap! They blew up!” a man purported to be Robbie’s brother says on the video.

    Subsequent footage shows the three occupants of the burning boat swimming towards the one with the pride flags, and being urged to climb aboard, while one of the rescuers calls the emergency 911 service number. The woman is heard shouting: “Help us, we’re burning.”

    “The passengers were quite rude, shouting over us, ignoring my [questions] about their wellbeing when on the 911 call and smoking a vape pen on our boat without even so much as asking if they could,” Robbie told the Post.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/02/gay-pride-boat-tiktok-video-homophobic-abuse-sinks-in-flames
  • Richard_NabaviRichard_Nabavi Posts: 30,821
    Is it just me, or has the average time between the appointment and the resignation of tsars shortened dramatically?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769

    Is it just me, or has the average time between the appointment and the resignation of tsars shortened dramatically?

    I dunno. In 1917 there was one who lasted a mere twelve hours. And his successor lasted only 24 hours.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,972

    Is it just me, or has the average time between the appointment and the resignation of tsars shortened dramatically?

    They have the life expectancy of a Romanov in early July 1918.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
    Andy_JS said:

    "Record numbers of migrants expected to cross Channel this year

    George Grylls, Political Reporter"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/record-numbers-of-migrants-expected-to-cross-channel-this-year-l7mm3hc3v

    It really does seem that nothing can be done about this unless/until they are all returned on arrival, no exceptions, and processed offshore.

    The pull is simply too strong.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    Andy_JS said:

    "Record numbers of migrants expected to cross Channel this year

    George Grylls, Political Reporter"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/record-numbers-of-migrants-expected-to-cross-channel-this-year-l7mm3hc3v

    It really does seem that nothing can be done about this unless/until they are all returned on arrival, no exceptions, and processed offshore.

    The pull is simply too strong.
    We could let them all stay - on the condition that they settle in Scotland and are barred from moving South again.

    The Scottish Government is always complaining about the cruel deportation policies of the Home Office, and that it wants more immigrants not less, so that would surely constitute a mutually convenient and agreeable solution?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    Andy_JS said:

    "Record numbers of migrants expected to cross Channel this year

    George Grylls, Political Reporter"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/record-numbers-of-migrants-expected-to-cross-channel-this-year-l7mm3hc3v

    It really does seem that nothing can be done about this unless/until they are all returned on arrival, no exceptions, and processed offshore.

    The pull is simply too strong.
    Yes, I think it's time to do a dodgy deal with a place like Algeria and auto deport everyone there while they wait to be processed. Do that for a few months and it becomes a trickle.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711

    This is why pride month matters, because we need to keep on fighting the good fight against bigotry.

    It could be viewed as a dramatic demonstration of the concept of karma: a group of young boaters hurling homophobic abuse towards another vessel flying gay pride flags, then needing to be rescued by their intended victims when their own boat explodes into a ball of flame.

    Sunday’s incident on Washington state’s Lake Moses occurred two days before the start of June, which is known as gay pride month because of demonstrations and celebrations centered on the annual pride parades in cities around the world to commemorate the Stonewall uprising for LGBTQ equal rights in New York in 1969.

    Video of last weekend’s happenings has gone viral on TikTok, amassing more than 8m views and prompting an investigation by the Grant county sheriff Tom Jones.

    “We got them out of the water safely, we were nicer than they were,” the video’s author posted alongside the clip, noting that the three people rescued, two men and a woman, did not offer any thanks.

    According to an account of the incident in the Washington Post, a boater named Robbie, who did not give his last name for fear of retaliation, was enjoying a day on the lake swimming, tubing and listening to music with his brother and two friends. He said their boat was displaying a variety of gay pride and rainbow flags.

    At about 7pm he said they noticed another boat passing by with its occupants yelling at them. “I could clearly hear the words gays and flags being shouted from their boat,” he told the Post.

    The video shows a woman in the boat flipping her middle finger as they sped by, and according to Robbie the boat made a sharp turn and then circled around them at least six times, spraying water onto them and causing their boat to rock.

    The boat sped away, he said, and seconds later they heard an explosion and saw black smoke rising from the other vessel.

    “Holy crap! They blew up!” a man purported to be Robbie’s brother says on the video.

    Subsequent footage shows the three occupants of the burning boat swimming towards the one with the pride flags, and being urged to climb aboard, while one of the rescuers calls the emergency 911 service number. The woman is heard shouting: “Help us, we’re burning.”

    “The passengers were quite rude, shouting over us, ignoring my [questions] about their wellbeing when on the 911 call and smoking a vape pen on our boat without even so much as asking if they could,” Robbie told the Post.


    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/jun/02/gay-pride-boat-tiktok-video-homophobic-abuse-sinks-in-flames

    Bigotry needs to be challenged all year round, and wherever it's found.

    That's quite a separate question from gratingly ubiquitous and overbearing Wokeness all month long.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Record numbers of migrants expected to cross Channel this year

    George Grylls, Political Reporter"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/record-numbers-of-migrants-expected-to-cross-channel-this-year-l7mm3hc3v

    It really does seem that nothing can be done about this unless/until they are all returned on arrival, no exceptions, and processed offshore.

    The pull is simply too strong.
    Yes, I think it's time to do a dodgy deal with a place like Algeria and auto deport everyone there while they wait to be processed. Do that for a few months and it becomes a trickle.
    They do it because it works.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711

    Andy_JS said:

    "Record numbers of migrants expected to cross Channel this year

    George Grylls, Political Reporter"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/record-numbers-of-migrants-expected-to-cross-channel-this-year-l7mm3hc3v

    It really does seem that nothing can be done about this unless/until they are all returned on arrival, no exceptions, and processed offshore.

    The pull is simply too strong.
    We could let them all stay - on the condition that they settle in Scotland and are barred from moving South again.

    The Scottish Government is always complaining about the cruel deportation policies of the Home Office, and that it wants more immigrants not less, so that would surely constitute a mutually convenient and agreeable solution?
    I think David Cameron's policy was the best - take the most needy and deserving direct from refugee camps.

    The trouble is that our definition of asylum is so wide and so gameable that most of those landing here can find a way to claim it, and are coached accordingly, despite being healthy young men and affluent enough to be able to afford to pay thousands to the people smugglers.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    I see the Worldometer site has incorporated Peru’s revised death toll into their figure - and instantly made clear what we already know - that most of the numbers on the site are clearly worthless, such an outlier is it!

    Won’t stop politicians and media quoting them as gospel for comparative purposes though. Nor apparently governments using them as their crude basis for travels bans from abroad!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,651

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Prof. Christina Pagel Retweeted
    BBC Politics
    @BBCPolitics
    ·
    1h
    "Actually we have 40% of the whole population with two [vaccine] doses - that's the figure we should be concentrating on"
    Christina Pagel, Independent SAGE, adds "I don't know what data [Boris Johnson's] looking at" but it's too early to know about 21 June


    Why don't BBC and Sky just set up a permanent studio in her living room?

    Given that Moderna and Pfizer are about 85-90% effective two weeks after the first dose (and these dominate our current first doses), this is a monumental moving of the goal posts by Ms Pagel.
    Of course it is, that's what they have got left. The data doesn't support extending any measures so they have to try and push some new angle. These people seem to get off on keeping everyone locked away. I don't understand it at all.
    After all the children are jabbed it will be "But what about foetuses?"
    I'm going to have to delete this post to avoid giving them any ideas.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    Well, however you look at it, that was New Zealand’s and specifically Devon Conway’s day.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021
    Another afternoon, another group of youths having a big knife fight in a park...man in hospital in critical condition.

    https://twitter.com/MPSGreenwich/status/1400136429204905986?s=20
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,651

    BBC still pushing the same narrative...75% vaccinated not enough.

    BBC News - Covid-19: Lack of queue jumping helped vaccine drive, says Matt Hancock
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57336316

    That, and the "But it's ONLY 90% effective!" bleat rearing its ugly head again.

    Sometimes makes you wonder why we even bothered with the sodding vaccines, if we're meant to be pissing our pants and locking down for eternity regardless.
    Of course, most people don't even understand efficacy...i.e. fairly certain people think 10 people meet a plague carrier, 1 gets it...which of course isn't what it means.
    It also ignores the fact that it dramatically lowers the infectiousness of those who get it.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,475
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Best thing about the cricket today.

    There's a group of lads sat in the crowd with a 'Boundary Countback' sign, where they're keeping tally of the boundaries each side scores. You know, just in case it becomes important...

    Via the BBC website.

    According to TMS you can still buy an old-fashioned scorecard to fill in as the match progresses. They'd be better off learning how to do that.
    How do you know they can't?

    Speaking as a former scorer you'd be surprised by just how many people who can score.

    I'm a linear man myself.
    The single most boring thing about cricket in my opinion. I think I'd rather umpire and get abuse from the oppo's fast bowlers.
    I prefer umpiring as well.

    Being on the field is the best, I miss the sledging/banter from my playing days.

    Captain to his bowler: 'Bowl it straight, this f*cker would miss his own funeral' was my favourite.
    Teammate to caller. ‘He’s just gone in to bat. If you wait he’ll be back any second.’
    Last season at Club 4th XI.
    Crying toddler "I want my Daddy!"
    Mum "He's just gone to bat. Don't worry he'll be back very soon."
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    Andy_JS said:

    "Record numbers of migrants expected to cross Channel this year

    George Grylls, Political Reporter"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/record-numbers-of-migrants-expected-to-cross-channel-this-year-l7mm3hc3v

    It really does seem that nothing can be done about this unless/until they are all returned on arrival, no exceptions, and processed offshore.

    The pull is simply too strong.
    We could let them all stay - on the condition that they settle in Scotland and are barred from moving South again.

    The Scottish Government is always complaining about the cruel deportation policies of the Home Office, and that it wants more immigrants not less, so that would surely constitute a mutually convenient and agreeable solution?
    I think David Cameron's policy was the best - take the most needy and deserving direct from refugee camps.

    The trouble is that our definition of asylum is so wide and so gameable that most of those landing here can find a way to claim it, and are coached accordingly, despite being healthy young men and affluent enough to be able to afford to pay thousands to the people smugglers.
    Which is why you send them to Algeria to await a decision. If they get it then they get transferred to the UK, if not then deported from Algeria to their home country. No chance of interference from human rights lawyers or other various do gooders. Time to get tough and the PM needs to back the Home Secretary with money to do these dodgy deals with the likes of Algeria or Morocco.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021
    No wonder the catchup tsar has gone he wanted the government to spend an extra £15bn....when the yearly education budget is £50bn.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518
    ydoethur said:

    Recovery commissioner Sir Kevan Collins has written to the prime minister Boris Johnson to offer his resignation this afternoon.

    Sir Kevan was unveiled by Boris Johnson as the government's catch-up tsar just five months ago, tasked with overseeing the creation of a plan that would ensure pupils could recover after two periods of school closures during the coronavirus pandemic.

    Tes can reveal Sir Kevan's letter in full:


    https://www.tes.com/news/exclusive-sir-kevan-collins-resigns-over-catch-plan

    What a surprise. Not.
    Any chance he can take Williamson with him?
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    Cookie said:

    MikeL said:

    Worth noting the age breakdown on next Labour leader poll:

    18-24: Burnham 10%
    25-34: Burnham 9%

    55-64: Burnham 26%
    65+: Burnham 34%

    So Burnham very much more popular with older people - where Labour badly needs to improve.

    Amongst everyone under 35, Burnham is no more popular than Phillips, Lammy or even Thornberry - all are approx tied.

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1400044622013997061/photo/1

    Possible reason: name recognition. Burnham was a name before the political memory of many younger voters.

    Not that that invalidates your point.
    I think it might be that Burnam, almost alone amongst elected polities, criticised the Lockdown. OK his main criticism was the Government should give him more money if they what to put his regen in to a higher tear of Lockdown, rather than strictly speaking against the lockdown.

    While all the other opposition polititanss ether approved of the lockdown or moor likely where pushing for harder lockdowns, he actually criticised the government over a very authoritarian policy.

    Then again, why it would only be apricated by older voters I don't know so maybe I am wrong.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Record numbers of migrants expected to cross Channel this year

    George Grylls, Political Reporter"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/record-numbers-of-migrants-expected-to-cross-channel-this-year-l7mm3hc3v

    It really does seem that nothing can be done about this unless/until they are all returned on arrival, no exceptions, and processed offshore.

    The pull is simply too strong.
    We could let them all stay - on the condition that they settle in Scotland and are barred from moving South again.

    The Scottish Government is always complaining about the cruel deportation policies of the Home Office, and that it wants more immigrants not less, so that would surely constitute a mutually convenient and agreeable solution?
    I think David Cameron's policy was the best - take the most needy and deserving direct from refugee camps.

    The trouble is that our definition of asylum is so wide and so gameable that most of those landing here can find a way to claim it, and are coached accordingly, despite being healthy young men and affluent enough to be able to afford to pay thousands to the people smugglers.
    Which is why you send them to Algeria to await a decision. If they get it then they get transferred to the UK, if not then deported from Algeria to their home country. No chance of interference from human rights lawyers or other various do gooders. Time to get tough and the PM needs to back the Home Secretary with money to do these dodgy deals with the likes of Algeria or Morocco.
    Agree, and I'm not sure why the deals need to be dodgy?

    They're likely to be more effective than those with France - which simply use the problem as a excuse to try and extract more money from us whilst doing nothing.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,064

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Record numbers of migrants expected to cross Channel this year

    George Grylls, Political Reporter"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/record-numbers-of-migrants-expected-to-cross-channel-this-year-l7mm3hc3v

    It really does seem that nothing can be done about this unless/until they are all returned on arrival, no exceptions, and processed offshore.

    The pull is simply too strong.
    We could let them all stay - on the condition that they settle in Scotland and are barred from moving South again.

    The Scottish Government is always complaining about the cruel deportation policies of the Home Office, and that it wants more immigrants not less, so that would surely constitute a mutually convenient and agreeable solution?
    I think David Cameron's policy was the best - take the most needy and deserving direct from refugee camps.

    The trouble is that our definition of asylum is so wide and so gameable that most of those landing here can find a way to claim it, and are coached accordingly, despite being healthy young men and affluent enough to be able to afford to pay thousands to the people smugglers.
    Which is why you send them to Algeria to await a decision. If they get it then they get transferred to the UK, if not then deported from Algeria to their home country. No chance of interference from human rights lawyers or other various do gooders. Time to get tough and the PM needs to back the Home Secretary with money to do these dodgy deals with the likes of Algeria or Morocco.
    Agree, and I'm not sure why the deals need to be dodgy?

    They're likely to be more effective than those with France - which simply use the problem as a excuse to try and extract more money from us whilst doing nothing.
    They will be seen as dodgy but the government just needs to get on with it.
  • BigRichBigRich Posts: 3,492
    alex_ said:

    I see the Worldometer site has incorporated Peru’s revised death toll into their figure - and instantly made clear what we already know - that most of the numbers on the site are clearly worthless, such an outlier is it!

    Won’t stop politicians and media quoting them as gospel for comparative purposes though. Nor apparently governments using them as their crude basis for travels bans from abroad!

    Is the new higher number from a calculation of 'execs deaths'?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    edited June 2021
    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Recovery commissioner Sir Kevan Collins has written to the prime minister Boris Johnson to offer his resignation this afternoon.

    Sir Kevan was unveiled by Boris Johnson as the government's catch-up tsar just five months ago, tasked with overseeing the creation of a plan that would ensure pupils could recover after two periods of school closures during the coronavirus pandemic.

    Tes can reveal Sir Kevan's letter in full:


    https://www.tes.com/news/exclusive-sir-kevan-collins-resigns-over-catch-plan

    What a surprise. Not.
    Any chance he can take Williamson with him?
    That’s unambitious. Collins has resigned, not gone to North Korea.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    No wonder the catchup tsar has gone he wanted the government to spend an extra £15bn....when the yearly education budget is £50bn.

    To be honest if £15bn is actually needed and could be spent effectively, then comparing with the annual budget is meaningless. It’s not, presumably, a repeating sum. And is a clear, unambiguous investment in the future. Get it wrong and the long term costs will easily be counted in multi billions. How much have we spent on tackling COVID and who’s to say this isn’t just as, if not more, important?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    edited June 2021
    alex_ said:

    I see the Worldometer site has incorporated Peru’s revised death toll into their figure - and instantly made clear what we already know - that most of the numbers on the site are clearly worthless, such an outlier is it!

    Won’t stop politicians and media quoting them as gospel for comparative purposes though. Nor apparently governments using them as their crude basis for travels bans from abroad!

    What about Mexico?

    I thought Mexico announced a few weeks ago that its Covid deaths were far higher than previously reported - but the higher figure never got recorded by Worldometer?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    alex_ said:

    No wonder the catchup tsar has gone he wanted the government to spend an extra £15bn....when the yearly education budget is £50bn.

    To be honest if £15bn is actually needed and could be spent effectively, then comparing with the annual budget is meaningless. It’s not, presumably, a repeating sum. And is a clear, unambiguous investment in the future. Get it wrong and the long term costs will easily be counted in multi billions. How much have we spent on tackling COVID and who’s to say this isn’t just as, if not more, important?
    Youngsters don't vote and their parents are split 50-50.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,842
    Re cricket. I was there.. Flat wicket ball doing zippo.. where is the spinner/spinners.? Selection seems crazy to me.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,711
    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Record numbers of migrants expected to cross Channel this year

    George Grylls, Political Reporter"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/record-numbers-of-migrants-expected-to-cross-channel-this-year-l7mm3hc3v

    It really does seem that nothing can be done about this unless/until they are all returned on arrival, no exceptions, and processed offshore.

    The pull is simply too strong.
    We could let them all stay - on the condition that they settle in Scotland and are barred from moving South again.

    The Scottish Government is always complaining about the cruel deportation policies of the Home Office, and that it wants more immigrants not less, so that would surely constitute a mutually convenient and agreeable solution?
    I think David Cameron's policy was the best - take the most needy and deserving direct from refugee camps.

    The trouble is that our definition of asylum is so wide and so gameable that most of those landing here can find a way to claim it, and are coached accordingly, despite being healthy young men and affluent enough to be able to afford to pay thousands to the people smugglers.
    Which is why you send them to Algeria to await a decision. If they get it then they get transferred to the UK, if not then deported from Algeria to their home country. No chance of interference from human rights lawyers or other various do gooders. Time to get tough and the PM needs to back the Home Secretary with money to do these dodgy deals with the likes of Algeria or Morocco.
    Agree, and I'm not sure why the deals need to be dodgy?

    They're likely to be more effective than those with France - which simply use the problem as a excuse to try and extract more money from us whilst doing nothing.
    They will be seen as dodgy but the government just needs to get on with it.
    It's more that the chatterati would go absolutely ape-shit about it. My LinkedIn feed would light up like a rocket, and my firm would probably organise "anti-racist" events about it too. Bring your "whole self" to work, my arse.

    I'd still back it 100% though, but gently, pleasedly and in private.

    It's the right thing to do.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,972

    NEW THREAD

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156
    BigRich said:

    Cookie said:

    MikeL said:

    Worth noting the age breakdown on next Labour leader poll:

    18-24: Burnham 10%
    25-34: Burnham 9%

    55-64: Burnham 26%
    65+: Burnham 34%

    So Burnham very much more popular with older people - where Labour badly needs to improve.

    Amongst everyone under 35, Burnham is no more popular than Phillips, Lammy or even Thornberry - all are approx tied.

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1400044622013997061/photo/1

    Possible reason: name recognition. Burnham was a name before the political memory of many younger voters.

    Not that that invalidates your point.
    I think it might be that Burnam, almost alone amongst elected polities, criticised the Lockdown. OK his main criticism was the Government should give him more money if they what to put his regen in to a higher tear of Lockdown, rather than strictly speaking against the lockdown.

    While all the other opposition polititanss ether approved of the lockdown or moor likely where pushing for harder lockdowns, he actually criticised the government over a very authoritarian policy.

    Then again, why it would only be apricated by older voters I don't know so maybe I am wrong.
    For me he seems to have improved a lot compared to how I remember him, I would have been neutral on him when he stood for Labour leadership. Perhaps if I had never heard of him in the first place I would be less impressed now.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,913
    alex_ said:

    ydoethur said:

    Recovery commissioner Sir Kevan Collins has written to the prime minister Boris Johnson to offer his resignation this afternoon.

    Sir Kevan was unveiled by Boris Johnson as the government's catch-up tsar just five months ago, tasked with overseeing the creation of a plan that would ensure pupils could recover after two periods of school closures during the coronavirus pandemic.

    Tes can reveal Sir Kevan's letter in full:


    https://www.tes.com/news/exclusive-sir-kevan-collins-resigns-over-catch-plan

    What a surprise. Not.
    Any chance he can take Williamson with him?
    Williamson was better this morning. Just awful, so a significant improvement.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,464

    No wonder the catchup tsar has gone he wanted the government to spend an extra £15bn....when the yearly education budget is £50bn.

    Though bear in mind that the catchup plan was multi-year (3 years I think). 10 % extra cost for several years is high, but it's likely to be closer to the real cost than 1 %. That's about £50 per pupil per year, which isn't going to buy much tuition.

    At the very least, a factor of ten disagreement in the money that should be spent implies that someone didn't set the parameters early on. So, although this is unlikely to shift many (any?) votes, it's HMG looking stingy and incompetent. Furlough and vaccination reset the government's image in a positive way, so the question is whether their subsequent actions re-reset it back to "useless chancers".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,769
    edited June 2021
    alex_ said:

    No wonder the catchup tsar has gone he wanted the government to spend an extra £15bn....when the yearly education budget is £50bn.

    To be honest if £15bn is actually needed and could be spent effectively, then comparing with the annual budget is meaningless. It’s not, presumably, a repeating sum. And is a clear, unambiguous investment in the future. Get it wrong and the long term costs will easily be counted in multi billions. How much have we spent on tackling COVID and who’s to say this isn’t just as, if not more, important?
    Roughly speaking, we’ve lost seventeen weeks of teaching out of the last 80. So it would appear that around 15 billion is roughly payment for catchup.

    But, of course, any calculation based on that assumes everything is linear and easy in terms of education. It makes no allowance for lumps inthe road of progress (y’know, reality).

    As I have said before, the best place to start would be by ripping out the administrative structure. It’s expensive, wasteful and in many crucial respects counterproductive. That would free up ample money that could be redirected via parents or schools directly to something useful.

    What I would say is that it would be better to have no money at all than to spend a token amount on a pet project. That’s going to be £1.5 billion pointlessly wasted.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MaxPB said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Record numbers of migrants expected to cross Channel this year

    George Grylls, Political Reporter"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/record-numbers-of-migrants-expected-to-cross-channel-this-year-l7mm3hc3v

    It really does seem that nothing can be done about this unless/until they are all returned on arrival, no exceptions, and processed offshore.

    The pull is simply too strong.
    We could let them all stay - on the condition that they settle in Scotland and are barred from moving South again.

    The Scottish Government is always complaining about the cruel deportation policies of the Home Office, and that it wants more immigrants not less, so that would surely constitute a mutually convenient and agreeable solution?
    I think David Cameron's policy was the best - take the most needy and deserving direct from refugee camps.

    The trouble is that our definition of asylum is so wide and so gameable that most of those landing here can find a way to claim it, and are coached accordingly, despite being healthy young men and affluent enough to be able to afford to pay thousands to the people smugglers.
    Which is why you send them to Algeria to await a decision. If they get it then they get transferred to the UK, if not then deported from Algeria to their home country. No chance of interference from human rights lawyers or other various do gooders. Time to get tough and the PM needs to back the Home Secretary with money to do these dodgy deals with the likes of Algeria or Morocco.
    Precisely.

    Though something also needs to be done about how easy the system is to be gamed since the human rights lawyers etc will end up in Algeria.

    I wonder how many asylum seekers say they are gay but are actually straight? 🤔
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    As expected Jesse Lingard, cut from Gareth Southgate's Euro 2020 squad yesterday, starts tonight while Jude Bellingham makes his first senior start at the age of 17.

    Trent Alexander-Arnold and Kieran Trippier both start, with Alexander-Arnold set to line up at right back with Trippier likely to be either playing as a right-sided centre-back, or at left back.

    There's no Chelsea or Manchester City players involved in this game, having played in the Champions League final on Saturday.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited June 2021
    This is pretty bad for Anthony Fauci


    Jan 2020: Fauci told by colleagues that Covid potentially engineered in the Wuhan lab.

    "April 2020: Fauci being thanked for downplaying lab leak theory.

    #Fauciemails are something"


    https://twitter.com/mattswami/status/1399947244397342728?s=20
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,533
    edited June 2021
    England XI: Pickford, Alexander-Arnold, Trippier, Rice, Mings, Coady, Saka, Bellingham, Kane, Grealish, Lingard.

    Subs: Calvert-Lewin, Johnstone, Godfrey, Phillips, White, Watkins, Ward-Prowse, Henderson, Sancho, Ramsdale.

    --

    That looks a weird team that won't be anything like the one that plays at the Euros. Not sure what Sir Waistcoat learns from it. Seems more like a run out for a lot of those that aren't going to play much at the finals.
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    No wonder the catchup tsar has gone he wanted the government to spend an extra £15bn....when the yearly education budget is £50bn.

    Though bear in mind that the catchup plan was multi-year (3 years I think). 10 % extra cost for several years is high, but it's likely to be closer to the real cost than 1 %. That's about £50 per pupil per year, which isn't going to buy much tuition.

    At the very least, a factor of ten disagreement in the money that should be spent implies that someone didn't set the parameters early on. So, although this is unlikely to shift many (any?) votes, it's HMG looking stingy and incompetent. Furlough and vaccination reset the government's image in a positive way, so the question is whether their subsequent actions re-reset it back to "useless chancers".
    £1.4 bn is an embarrassing drop in the ocean unless a genuine first step before more money given on the basis of detailed study and targeting. There is going to be wide variation in the consequences of the last year - some pupils are going to have fallen almost irretrievably behind but some will on the other hand probably be a long way ahead of where they might otherwise have been - freed from the convoy and with few distractions. Especially in the lower age groups I’m not sure how the schools are managing to put them all back together within the constraints of retaining them in groups based on age.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156

    England XI: Pickford, Alexander-Arnold, Trippier, Rice, Mings, Coady, Saka, Bellingham, Kane, Grealish, Lingard.

    Subs: Calvert-Lewin, Johnstone, Godfrey, Phillips, White, Watkins, Ward-Prowse, Henderson, Sancho, Ramsdale.

    --

    That looks a weird team that won't be anything like the one that plays at the Euros. Not sure what Sir Waistcoat learns from it. Seems more like a run out for a lot of those that aren't going to play much at the finals.

    Probably only Grealish and Henderson actually want any minutes at this stage. The rest of them are happy to be err, rested.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,434

    The Boris doing some propaganda... disappointing no flag.

    https://youtu.be/F-d12Xm1TfI

    No flag, no rolled-up shirtsleeves, no tie tucked into his shirt. Has Boris hired a new head of spin?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,434
    OT looks like Coolmore/Ballydoyle are relying on Bolshoi Ballet in the Derby on Saturday, to the annoyance of those who listened to the hype about their other entries.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,434
    Damn! New threaded.
  • AnExileinD4AnExileinD4 Posts: 337
    alex_ said:

    No wonder the catchup tsar has gone he wanted the government to spend an extra £15bn....when the yearly education budget is £50bn.

    To be honest if £15bn is actually needed and could be spent effectively, then comparing with the annual budget is meaningless. It’s not, presumably, a repeating sum. And is a clear, unambiguous investment in the future. Get it wrong and the long term costs will easily be counted in multi billions. How much have we spent on tackling COVID and who’s to say this isn’t just as, if not more, important?
    It won’t be spent effectively and the expectation will be that it will be a permanent 30% budget increase.
This discussion has been closed.