Labour's anti-semitism infestation update. John McDonnell not only was on the march with the Jewish Devil inflatable, but chose to tweet an image with an anti-semitic placard in it.
At which point do Starmer do something? Kick out the racists FFS.
How about the antisemitic quote falsely attributed to Einstein?
What is the claimed quote exactly ? I can't make it out.
Einstein was a Zionist, but of a very unusual kind.
I think there is little doubt that Einstein would be appalled at some aspects of the modern state of Israel.
It reads to me as:
"It would be my greatest sadness to see zionism do to Palestinian Arabs much of what Nazis did to Jews" - Albert Einstein
Not only would Einstein not have said anything so offensive, equating Zionism with the Nazi Holocaust of Jews is digusting antisemitism.
Einstein certainly believed in unlimited Jewish immigration to Palestine.
In all the writings that I am aware of, though, he envisaged both Jews and Arabs sharing the territory of Palestine. Perhaps rather idealistically, but so be it.
There are writings of Einstein in which the behaviour of Jewish terrorist groups is compared to the actions of Fascists.
Obviously, though, if there is no recorded instance of Einstein stating the claimed quote, it certainly should not be attributed to him.
Perhaps it should be replaced with: "The attitude we adopt toward the Arab minority will provide the real test of our moral standards as a people." (Einstein 1955).
Not a comment on the great Albert Einstein but it is sometimes the case that massive intellect can co-exist with deeply irrational prejudice. A good example of this was the chess player Bobby Fischer.
I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1
We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.
Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?
By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
Anti-semitism no slack
Justifiable opposition to Israeli government actions might be forgiveable
That's big of you, Charles.
I think there is a mismatch here between 'is it right' and 'is it understandable'?
Let's take a deliberately ridiculous example: For no readily apparent reasons, Person A loathes all Belgians and encourages others to do the same. This is obviously wrong. Person B loathes Belgians, and encourages others to do the same. This is equally wrong. But it turns out Person B's brother was kicked to death by a mob of Belgians high on strong beer and cheese. Is Person B's loathing any less wrong? No. Is it more understandable? Yes.
Even if you think it is more understandable, I'm not so sure it is, what we're actually being asked to understand is that Person B loathes all Jews because of what some other Jews are doing in another part of the world.
head not very far down that road and we'll have to "understand" the EDL.
If none of our politicians made statements about solidarity with people far away over never ending squabbles that most English people have no idea about it would be for the best. It just makes rods for their backs, and most of the time is none of our business.
Whoever talks most about it loses votes in my opinion
I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1
We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.
Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?
By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
Anti-semitism no slack
Justifiable opposition to Israeli government actions might be forgiveable
That's big of you, Charles.
I think there is a mismatch here between 'is it right' and 'is it understandable'?
Let's take a deliberately ridiculous example: For no readily apparent reasons, Person A loathes all Belgians and encourages others to do the same. This is obviously wrong. Person B loathes Belgians, and encourages others to do the same. This is equally wrong. But it turns out Person B's brother was kicked to death by a mob of Belgians high on strong beer and cheese. Is Person B's loathing any less wrong? No. Is it more understandable? Yes.
I think that certain actions, particularly violent ones, are differently justifiable in different situations. Sometimes what ethics label as wrong - taking a life or causing harm - can be necessary and hence not just 'understandable' but 'justifiable'. Would you deny that a mother has the right to use deadly force to protect her children under imminent mortal threat by an attacker? Few would not find that justifiable. But the same mother killing the same person in the street without knowledge that tomorrow that person would threaten her children clearly would not be.
Similarly, those of us leaving in peace, prosperity and security do not share the same 'justifiable space' as those who are denied the ballot box and whose peace, prosperity, security and life can be denied in an arbitrary instant by their oppressor.
Let's be frank. Israel has the right to exist, but not to be an oppressor. Israel does exist and is an oppressor. The situations, and hence 'justifiable spaces' of Israelis and Palestinians in Israel are not the same, regardless of the failings of the Palestinian leadership.
Armed resistance and armed uprising can clearly be justifiable. It is an underpinning principle of the US constitution.
That said, I have zero truck or tolerance for turning this issue into anti-semitism against co-religionists of another country.
I’m seeing a lot of white people in the queue in Bolton.
By 'a lot of white people' do you mean 'very few Asians'? A lot of white people in Bolton would be unsurprising. Very few Asians would be surprising (though it depends on the location of course - very few Asians in Horwich or Egerton wouldn't be that surprising.) Anyway, it doesn't matter - if we get more jabs in arms in Bolton, we reduce the spread. Doesn't matter, yet, whose arms.
It was completely unscientific and I have no idea of the true proportions.
But I disagree with your view about getting jabs into any arms in Bolton. Surely this being done in part to protect the older anti-vaxxers in multigenerational homes. Won’t do much good if their youngsters don’t get jabbed.
It'll hinder the spread. Which will lead to fewer unvaxxed coming into contact with it.
There was a rather cold-hearted argument back last winter that we should prioritise not by risk but by sociability: the more people someone comes into contact with, the higher the priority to vaccinate them. Vaccinating the oldies did relatively little to diminish the spread because they didn't come into contact with many people. I don't think it was an argument either advanced seriously or taken seriously, but if you're only motivation is to take covid out of circulation as quickly as possible, that's the way to go.
Spread and hospitalisation risks are likely broadly inverse to each other tbh - so with a strategy such as ours you should get more pressure on transmission near the end, not the start of any vaccination program.
Hence the renewed focus on quicker 2nd doses is particularly galling when we're right at the point where 1st doses have a really big impact (both as they're more social, and as they're a much bigger share of the unvaccined population than 1st doses were back in January).
Can't we do both since 2nd doses are mainly AZ and 1sts Pfizer now ?
I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1
We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.
Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?
By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
Anti-semitism no slack
Justifiable opposition to Israeli government actions might be forgiveable
That's big of you, Charles.
I think there is a mismatch here between 'is it right' and 'is it understandable'?
Let's take a deliberately ridiculous example: For no readily apparent reasons, Person A loathes all Belgians and encourages others to do the same. This is obviously wrong. Person B loathes Belgians, and encourages others to do the same. This is equally wrong. But it turns out Person B's brother was kicked to death by a mob of Belgians high on strong beer and cheese. Is Person B's loathing any less wrong? No. Is it more understandable? Yes.
That's the same excuse which many people have for bigotism though. People which were mugged by a black man, then assume that all black men are dangerous, People which were robbed when travelers were nearby assume that all travelers are thieves.
Mine is all running 2-4 weeks late due to a cool, frosty April. Including many of the birds.
Blueberries just getting the start of flowers on some varieties.
Most of our blue-tit chicks are coming along nicely, with good strong wings developing. There's one, possibly two, falling behind, but we expect at least four of the six to fledge. About another week to go, from the look of them. Which, from my diary is maybe a little later than usual.
They need to be later - the caterpillars are well behind too.
My apple tree is being hammered by aphids. I think that the weather has been too cold for ladybirds?
A couple of mine have the dreaded leaf rust. Not good at all. I think the crops will all be ruined
I’m seeing a lot of white people in the queue in Bolton.
By 'a lot of white people' do you mean 'very few Asians'? A lot of white people in Bolton would be unsurprising. Very few Asians would be surprising (though it depends on the location of course - very few Asians in Horwich or Egerton wouldn't be that surprising.) Anyway, it doesn't matter - if we get more jabs in arms in Bolton, we reduce the spread. Doesn't matter, yet, whose arms.
It was completely unscientific and I have no idea of the true proportions.
But I disagree with your view about getting jabs into any arms in Bolton. Surely this being done in part to protect the older anti-vaxxers in multigenerational homes. Won’t do much good if their youngsters don’t get jabbed.
It'll hinder the spread. Which will lead to fewer unvaxxed coming into contact with it.
There was a rather cold-hearted argument back last winter that we should prioritise not by risk but by sociability: the more people someone comes into contact with, the higher the priority to vaccinate them. Vaccinating the oldies did relatively little to diminish the spread because they didn't come into contact with many people. I don't think it was an argument either advanced seriously or taken seriously, but if you're only motivation is to take covid out of circulation as quickly as possible, that's the way to go.
Spread and hospitalisation risks are likely broadly inverse to each other tbh - so with a strategy such as ours you should get more pressure on transmission near the end, not the start of any vaccination program.
Hence the renewed focus on quicker 2nd doses is particularly galling when we're right at the point where 1st doses have a really big impact (both as they're more social, and as they're a much bigger share of the unvaccined population than 1st doses were back in January).
Can't we do both since 2nd doses are mainly AZ and 1sts Pfizer now ?
Yes, we're in a bit of a Goldilocks zone where we're able to ramp up first doses independently from second doses because we basically stopped doing first Pfizer doses for most of March and almost all of April. The second dose debt for Pfizer is now really low and we have got huge supply coming in plus a continued first dose only programme for Moderna for at least another three weeks.
https://taipology.substack.com/p/how-taiwan-finally-fell ...Like in previous breaches that were successfully contained, airline crews were the chink in Taiwan’s COVID armor. You have to remember back in the the halcyon days of early April, Taiwan was feeling so good about itself that it announced the opening of a tourism travel bubble with Palau. On April 15, they relaxed quarantine rules for flight crews.
At this point, the unfortunate underestimation of a mighty foe met with mind-boggling mismanagement and petty greed.
See the China Airline pilots were being quarantined/doing their self-health management at the Taoyuan Novotel. At the same time, the Novotel decided it was a great time to run a promo packages for domestic tourists who are “air travel fans.” For NT$3000 a night (around US$100), you get to stay in the Novotel and watch the flights take off and land from the comfort of your room at nearby Taoyuan airport. The Taoyuan Tourism Bureau even promoted this insanity with a subsidy. “Just Love Taoyuan! Discount for stays!”...
Anyone visiting Taoyuan for any other reason than to get on or off a flight ought to be permanently quarantined.
"Lue Elizondo: Look, Bill, I'm not, I'm not telling you that, that it doesn't sound wacky. What I'm telling you, it's real. The question is, what is it? What are its intentions? What are its capabilities?
As an engineer I've always been naturally sceptical of stories like these, but it's getting harder and harder to maintain that stance. Bonkers as it sounds, clearly something that can be tracked visually, on radar, and by IR is physically present, not some kind of illusion.
I'm glad the US is starting to take this seriously. They should pack an aircraft with every sensor known to man, optical, IR, gravimetric, et al, and fly it around in an area where these sightings are happening.
These things are clearly real - they do appear to be able to operate both in ways current technology cannot duplicate and also trans medium (ie in water and in air)
The question is where do they come from - it isn't impossible that they come from China or Russia ( I saw someone say Iran - but nah can't see that ) - but it seems unlikely.
We had a similar delivery from Michelin starred chef doing Indian food, Aktar Islam. Fantastic quality and lasted three nights for less than the cost of a night out, we will be doing much more eating in.
Just decided to try that based on your recommendation. Thanks.
Do let me know what you think. He’s a smashing lad too, very humble.
You are getting seriously boring, going on about the weather. We know what the weather is like, we can look outside. There are lots of weather forums if you want to drone on about it. Although I suspect you’d bore their members too.
I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1
We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.
Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?
By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
Anti-semitism no slack
Justifiable opposition to Israeli government actions might be forgiveable
That's big of you, Charles.
I think there is a mismatch here between 'is it right' and 'is it understandable'?
Let's take a deliberately ridiculous example: For no readily apparent reasons, Person A loathes all Belgians and encourages others to do the same. This is obviously wrong. Person B loathes Belgians, and encourages others to do the same. This is equally wrong. But it turns out Person B's brother was kicked to death by a mob of Belgians high on strong beer and cheese. Is Person B's loathing any less wrong? No. Is it more understandable? Yes.
That's the same excuse which many people have for bigotism though. People which were mugged by a black man, then assume that all black men are dangerous, People which were robbed when travelers were nearby assume that all travelers are thieves.
It's both wrong, and irrational.
Like when people generalise wildly from a group of racist pillocks driving down from Bradford and suddenly it is all Keir Starmer's fault.
You are getting seriously boring, going on about the weather. We know what the weather is like, we can look outside. There are lots of weather forums if you want to drone on about it. Although I suspect you’d bore their members too.
Enough already. It’s incredibly dull.
i would add - we live in the UK - we expect shit weather!
Labour's anti-semitism infestation update. John McDonnell not only was on the march with the Jewish Devil inflatable, but chose to tweet an image with an anti-semitic placard in it.
At which point do Starmer do something? Kick out the racists FFS.
How about the antisemitic quote falsely attributed to Einstein?
What is the claimed quote exactly ? I can't make it out.
Einstein was a Zionist, but of a very unusual kind.
I think there is little doubt that Einstein would be appalled at some aspects of the modern state of Israel.
It reads to me as:
"It would be my greatest sadness to see zionism do to Palestinian Arabs much of what Nazis did to Jews" - Albert Einstein
Not only would Einstein not have said anything so offensive, equating Zionism with the Nazi Holocaust of Jews is digusting antisemitism.
Apparently It may be a v-crude interpretation of this quote:
“Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in [Menachem] Begin’s behalf, and the creation of Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports fascist elements in Israel, the public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement,”
Not remotely crude, its an entirely fake, entirely dodgy, very antisemitic quote.
To suggest that zionists/jews are treating the Palestinians like the Nazis treated the Jews is disgusting and if it doesn't strike you as such then that is alarming.
Entirely fair to compare Israel to apartheid South Africa, however
Yes, I agree. I think it's just the "Nazi" comparison which falls foul of the official antisemitism definition.
Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:
The abuse was much worse than that
It was "fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, rape their mothers"
I hope they get five years inside. We need an exemplary sentence to show this shit will not be tolerated. Ever
Sounds like Hate Speech - which is (rightly imo) a criminal offence and can be a serious one.
But you used to disagree, didn't you? You used to say that our Hate Speech laws were a violation of free speech, no?
I don’t like hate speech laws. And you don’t need them to prosecute this. It’s a clear incitement to violence and a breach of the peace
What about race as an aggravating factor for the sentence?
Let's go kill some people!
Let's go kill the Jews!
Same thing for you?
LOL
Mate you're having an absolute shocker here. You can't even remember, still less articulate clearly, what it is you're arguing for or against and still you're hoping to trap people.
I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1
We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.
Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?
By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
Anti-semitism no slack
Justifiable opposition to Israeli government actions might be forgiveable
That's big of you, Charles.
I think there is a mismatch here between 'is it right' and 'is it understandable'?
Let's take a deliberately ridiculous example: For no readily apparent reasons, Person A loathes all Belgians and encourages others to do the same. This is obviously wrong. Person B loathes Belgians, and encourages others to do the same. This is equally wrong. But it turns out Person B's brother was kicked to death by a mob of Belgians high on strong beer and cheese. Is Person B's loathing any less wrong? No. Is it more understandable? Yes.
That's the same excuse which many people have for bigotism though. People which were mugged by a black man, then assume that all black men are dangerous, People which were robbed when travelers were nearby assume that all travelers are thieves.
It's both wrong, and irrational.
Like when people generalise wildly from a group of racist pillocks driving down from Bradford and suddenly it is all Keir Starmer's fault.
That's a straw man. No one is saying its his fault. But there's too many like Corbyn which are tolerated and which march alongside these people and enable them in the labour party.
"Lue Elizondo: Look, Bill, I'm not, I'm not telling you that, that it doesn't sound wacky. What I'm telling you, it's real. The question is, what is it? What are its intentions? What are its capabilities?
As an engineer I've always been naturally sceptical of stories like these, but it's getting harder and harder to maintain that stance. Bonkers as it sounds, clearly something that can be tracked visually, on radar, and by IR is physically present, not some kind of illusion.
I'm glad the US is starting to take this seriously. They should pack an aircraft with every sensor known to man, optical, IR, gravimetric, et al, and fly it around in an area where these sightings are happening.
These things are clearly real - they do appear to be able to operate both in ways current technology cannot duplicate and also trans medium (ie in water and in air)
The question is where do they come from - it isn't impossible that they come from China or Russia ( I saw someone say Iran - but nah can't see that ) - but it seems unlikely.
Ah. Glad you're on. Not being paying huge attention to it but could you pls let me know what was the catalyst for this latest bout of violence in the ME?
I’m seeing a lot of white people in the queue in Bolton.
By 'a lot of white people' do you mean 'very few Asians'? A lot of white people in Bolton would be unsurprising. Very few Asians would be surprising (though it depends on the location of course - very few Asians in Horwich or Egerton wouldn't be that surprising.) Anyway, it doesn't matter - if we get more jabs in arms in Bolton, we reduce the spread. Doesn't matter, yet, whose arms.
It was completely unscientific and I have no idea of the true proportions.
But I disagree with your view about getting jabs into any arms in Bolton. Surely this being done in part to protect the older anti-vaxxers in multigenerational homes. Won’t do much good if their youngsters don’t get jabbed.
It'll hinder the spread. Which will lead to fewer unvaxxed coming into contact with it.
There was a rather cold-hearted argument back last winter that we should prioritise not by risk but by sociability: the more people someone comes into contact with, the higher the priority to vaccinate them. Vaccinating the oldies did relatively little to diminish the spread because they didn't come into contact with many people. I don't think it was an argument either advanced seriously or taken seriously, but if you're only motivation is to take covid out of circulation as quickly as possible, that's the way to go.
Spread and hospitalisation risks are likely broadly inverse to each other tbh - so with a strategy such as ours you should get more pressure on transmission near the end, not the start of any vaccination program.
Hence the renewed focus on quicker 2nd doses is particularly galling when we're right at the point where 1st doses have a really big impact (both as they're more social, and as they're a much bigger share of the unvaccined population than 1st doses were back in January).
Can't we do both since 2nd doses are mainly AZ and 1sts Pfizer now ?
Yes, we're in a bit of a Goldilocks zone where we're able to ramp up first doses independently from second doses because we basically stopped doing first Pfizer doses for most of March and almost all of April. The second dose debt for Pfizer is now really low and we have got huge supply coming in plus a continued first dose only programme for Moderna for at least another three weeks.
I wonder if that's part of the reason for the 8-weeks move on second doses; that our AstraZeneca doses would be sat in a fridge for a month or more with nobody to use them on otherwise? Since over 40-vaccinations are all-but-finished and under-40s aren't getting AZN anymore?
Labour's anti-semitism infestation update. John McDonnell not only was on the march with the Jewish Devil inflatable, but chose to tweet an image with an anti-semitic placard in it.
At which point do Starmer do something? Kick out the racists FFS.
How about the antisemitic quote falsely attributed to Einstein?
What is the claimed quote exactly ? I can't make it out.
Einstein was a Zionist, but of a very unusual kind.
I think there is little doubt that Einstein would be appalled at some aspects of the modern state of Israel.
It reads to me as:
"It would be my greatest sadness to see zionism do to Palestinian Arabs much of what Nazis did to Jews" - Albert Einstein
Not only would Einstein not have said anything so offensive, equating Zionism with the Nazi Holocaust of Jews is digusting antisemitism.
Einstein certainly believed in unlimited Jewish immigration to Palestine.
In all the writings that I am aware of, though, he envisaged both Jews and Arabs sharing the territory of Palestine. Perhaps rather idealistically, but so be it.
There are writings of Einstein in which the behaviour of Jewish terrorist groups is compared to the actions of Fascists.
Obviously, though, if there is no recorded instance of Einstein stating the claimed quote, it certainly should not be attributed to him.
Perhaps it should be replaced with: "The attitude we adopt toward the Arab minority will provide the real test of our moral standards as a people." (Einstein 1955).
Not a comment on the great Albert Einstein but it is sometimes the case that massive intellect can co-exist with deeply irrational prejudice. A good example of this was the chess player Bobby Fischer.
Seen a good biopic on Fischer fairly recently on one of the streaming services. Unfortunately I can't remember the actor playing Fischer or the name of the film.
Which leads me to my anecdote when I was playing Ms Briskin's Dad and he was white (a very bad start; I much prefer playing white) and played Nc6 as his first move which immediately put me on tilt and he totally thrashed me.
"Lue Elizondo: Look, Bill, I'm not, I'm not telling you that, that it doesn't sound wacky. What I'm telling you, it's real. The question is, what is it? What are its intentions? What are its capabilities?
As an engineer I've always been naturally sceptical of stories like these, but it's getting harder and harder to maintain that stance. Bonkers as it sounds, clearly something that can be tracked visually, on radar, and by IR is physically present, not some kind of illusion.
I'm glad the US is starting to take this seriously. They should pack an aircraft with every sensor known to man, optical, IR, gravimetric, et al, and fly it around in an area where these sightings are happening.
These things are clearly real - they do appear to be able to operate both in ways current technology cannot duplicate and also trans medium (ie in water and in air)
The question is where do they come from - it isn't impossible that they come from China or Russia ( I saw someone say Iran - but nah can't see that ) - but it seems unlikely.
Ah. Glad you're on. Not being paying huge attention to it but could you pls let me know what was the catalyst for this latest bout of violence in the ME?
I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1
We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.
Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?
By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
Anti-semitism no slack
Justifiable opposition to Israeli government actions might be forgiveable
That's big of you, Charles.
I think there is a mismatch here between 'is it right' and 'is it understandable'?
Let's take a deliberately ridiculous example: For no readily apparent reasons, Person A loathes all Belgians and encourages others to do the same. This is obviously wrong. Person B loathes Belgians, and encourages others to do the same. This is equally wrong. But it turns out Person B's brother was kicked to death by a mob of Belgians high on strong beer and cheese. Is Person B's loathing any less wrong? No. Is it more understandable? Yes.
That's the same excuse which many people have for bigotism though. People which were mugged by a black man, then assume that all black men are dangerous, People which were robbed when travelers were nearby assume that all travelers are thieves.
It's both wrong, and irrational.
Generalizations are not irrational. They are how we make sense of the world. We start making generalizations the moment we first encounter a new situation (such as being mugged, regardless of the race of the mugger). This is particularly true for traumatic events. However, not all first iterations of a generalization are correct. That does not make trying to make a generalization from one incident in order to protect ourselves from repeating that particular trauma irrational.
However, holding onto wrong generalizations is irrational, and failure to modify 'first draft' generalizations in the face of new contradictory evidence is wrong and irrational.
I would say that, absent other context, immediately after being mugged by a black person (and we could insert any class group here - white youths wearing Doc Martins, Arabs, Jews, whatever), viewing all black men as potentially dangerous is both wrong and rational. Holding onto that belief when further exposures prove that not all black men are dangerous (indeed, that the vast majority of them are not) is wrong, irrational and immoral.
Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:
The abuse was much worse than that
It was "fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, rape their mothers"
I hope they get five years inside. We need an exemplary sentence to show this shit will not be tolerated. Ever
Sounds like Hate Speech - which is (rightly imo) a criminal offence and can be a serious one.
But you used to disagree, didn't you? You used to say that our Hate Speech laws were a violation of free speech, no?
I don’t like hate speech laws. And you don’t need them to prosecute this. It’s a clear incitement to violence and a breach of the peace
What about race as an aggravating factor for the sentence?
Let's go kill some people!
Let's go kill the Jews!
Same thing for you?
LOL
Mate you're having an absolute shocker here. You can't even remember, still less articulate clearly, what it is you're arguing for or against and still you're hoping to trap people.
ROFL
......Nobody EXPECTS the Spanish inquisition........!!
Gorgeous George is a serious threat to Labour. Pro-Brexit, pro-WWC (albeit with plenty of the "pro-paki" stuff the Heavy Woollens were created to smash), anti-Labour. He won't win, but he literally could hand the seat to the Tories. Which is of course his whole purpose in standing.
Are Labour still looking like going with Jo Cox’s sister?
They haven't selected a candidate. The press got hold of her sister running to be selected and spun it as her being their candidate. I don't think it matters now - Galloway running hands the seat to the Tories.
Would it be Scottish exceptionalism to say that we saw through the charlatan much earlier than many?
Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:
The abuse was much worse than that
It was "fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, rape their mothers"
I hope they get five years inside. We need an exemplary sentence to show this shit will not be tolerated. Ever
It's curious how most focus is on the anti-Semitic nature of this abuse but not so much on the anti-women nature. It's almost as if it's taken as a given that extremists and haters would naturally threaten sexual violence against a minority group's women when wanting to do them harm.
Christina Lamb has written very movingly about this in her book "Our Bodies, Their Battlefields". It is a very necessary but horrific read.
This doesn't just raise questions about people's attitudes to Jews but about their attitude to women as well.
"Lue Elizondo: Look, Bill, I'm not, I'm not telling you that, that it doesn't sound wacky. What I'm telling you, it's real. The question is, what is it? What are its intentions? What are its capabilities?
As an engineer I've always been naturally sceptical of stories like these, but it's getting harder and harder to maintain that stance. Bonkers as it sounds, clearly something that can be tracked visually, on radar, and by IR is physically present, not some kind of illusion.
I'm glad the US is starting to take this seriously. They should pack an aircraft with every sensor known to man, optical, IR, gravimetric, et al, and fly it around in an area where these sightings are happening.
These things are clearly real - they do appear to be able to operate both in ways current technology cannot duplicate and also trans medium (ie in water and in air)
The question is where do they come from - it isn't impossible that they come from China or Russia ( I saw someone say Iran - but nah can't see that ) - but it seems unlikely.
Ah. Glad you're on. Not being paying huge attention to it but could you pls let me know what was the catalyst for this latest bout of violence in the ME?
So he is basically standing on the exact same position as the Heavy Woollens if they stand (albeit with slightly less added racism).
Jo Cox's sister. The totally not racist Woollens "talking about what other politicians are scared to talk about" and wishing to promote a "unifying national identity". Gorgeous George hoping to appeal to Muslims AND WWC leavers. The all conquering Bluekip Tories.
What a smorgasbord. Counting the days.
Question will be what excuses Starmer comes out with when the Tories win the by-election. Electorate too thick / racist?
Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:
The abuse was much worse than that
It was "fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, rape their mothers"
I hope they get five years inside. We need an exemplary sentence to show this shit will not be tolerated. Ever
It's curious how most focus is on the anti-Semitic nature of this abuse but not so much on the anti-women nature. It's almost as if it's taken as a given that extremists and haters would naturally threaten sexual violence against a minority group's women when wanting to do them harm.
Christina Lamb has written very movingly about this in her book "Our Bodies, Their Battlefields". It is a very necessary but horrific read.
This doesn't just raise questions about people's attitudes to Jews but about their attitude to women as well.
Well indeed, I don;t expect that these 'gentlemen' are the most liberal and enlightened bunch on all manner of things.
Gorgeous George is a serious threat to Labour. Pro-Brexit, pro-WWC (albeit with plenty of the "pro-paki" stuff the Heavy Woollens were created to smash), anti-Labour. He won't win, but he literally could hand the seat to the Tories. Which is of course his whole purpose in standing.
Are Labour still looking like going with Jo Cox’s sister?
They haven't selected a candidate. The press got hold of her sister running to be selected and spun it as her being their candidate. I don't think it matters now - Galloway running hands the seat to the Tories.
Would it be Scottish exceptionalism to say that we saw through the charlatan much earlier than many?
"Scottish exceptionalism" ? Like the ability to have the only Left-wing-nationalist government on the planet and manages to pass it off as "Civic Nationalism" ?
Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:
The abuse was much worse than that
It was "fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, rape their mothers"
I hope they get five years inside. We need an exemplary sentence to show this shit will not be tolerated. Ever
It's curious how most focus is on the anti-Semitic nature of this abuse but not so much on the anti-women nature. It's almost as if it's taken as a given that extremists and haters would naturally threaten sexual violence against a minority group's women when wanting to do them harm.
Christina Lamb has written very movingly about this in her book "Our Bodies, Their Battlefields". It is a very necessary but horrific read.
This doesn't just raise questions about people's attitudes to Jews but about their attitude to women as well.
I think a part of the problem is that the media don't want to repeat the abuse, so they summarise it which cuts out the offensive parts.
Calling it antisemitic is technically correct, but it isn't the full story. But it plays into the media story of the conflict so it makes it nice and easy to do.
Playing uncensored what was said would show the misogyny, but nobody wants to do that so it gets dropped as not a part of the story. When it absolutely should be!
Worried about the Indian variant? While our latest ZOE data still shows hotspots in Bolton Bedford, Oldham and Glasgow where the variant exists- the UK picture is not showing any signs of an increase with cases staying at around 2000 symptomatic cases per day which is v.low. Thx
Lord Frost up before the committee to explain why the deal he negotiated when we held all the cards is so shit he wants to change it now...
The protocol clearly states how goods will be treated as they enter Northern Ireland and that’s as if they’re coming from the rest of the world so Frosts moaning about the EUs purist approach is risible . It’s the UK governments purist approach to sovereignty that’s causing the problems .
Labour really should win Batley; it's a 6.7% margin they're defending - demographically not nearly as bad for them as Hartlepool and it's a blimmin by-election. The ones Gov'ts always used to have shitty results in.
You are getting seriously boring, going on about the weather. We know what the weather is like, we can look outside. There are lots of weather forums if you want to drone on about it. Although I suspect you’d bore their members too.
Enough already. It’s incredibly dull.
I love a bit of weather chat. If Mike/RCS/TSE ask me to cease then I will. Not having some other random tell me what to talk about.
"Lue Elizondo: Look, Bill, I'm not, I'm not telling you that, that it doesn't sound wacky. What I'm telling you, it's real. The question is, what is it? What are its intentions? What are its capabilities?
As an engineer I've always been naturally sceptical of stories like these, but it's getting harder and harder to maintain that stance. Bonkers as it sounds, clearly something that can be tracked visually, on radar, and by IR is physically present, not some kind of illusion.
I'm glad the US is starting to take this seriously. They should pack an aircraft with every sensor known to man, optical, IR, gravimetric, et al, and fly it around in an area where these sightings are happening.
These things are clearly real - they do appear to be able to operate both in ways current technology cannot duplicate and also trans medium (ie in water and in air)
The question is where do they come from - it isn't impossible that they come from China or Russia ( I saw someone say Iran - but nah can't see that ) - but it seems unlikely.
Ah. Glad you're on. Not being paying huge attention to it but could you pls let me know what was the catalyst for this latest bout of violence in the ME?
Excellent thanks. So the Israelis tried to turf out the people who had been living there for decades (but perhaps not centuries...).
Simon the Just, eh? No wonder the problem seems to be intractable.
The Israeli Jews say that they legally own the land and they've owned it since the Ottomans, but were kicked out by the Jordanians and Palestinians settled there and they want their land back. They say they're the legal owners of the land.
The Palestinians say that its their home that they were settled in by the Jordanians in the 50s.
The Courts have backed the Jewish owners of the land.
Labour's anti-semitism infestation update. John McDonnell not only was on the march with the Jewish Devil inflatable, but chose to tweet an image with an anti-semitic placard in it.
At which point do Starmer do something? Kick out the racists FFS.
How about the antisemitic quote falsely attributed to Einstein?
What is the claimed quote exactly ? I can't make it out.
Einstein was a Zionist, but of a very unusual kind.
I think there is little doubt that Einstein would be appalled at some aspects of the modern state of Israel.
It reads to me as:
"It would be my greatest sadness to see zionism do to Palestinian Arabs much of what Nazis did to Jews" - Albert Einstein
Not only would Einstein not have said anything so offensive, equating Zionism with the Nazi Holocaust of Jews is digusting antisemitism.
Einstein certainly believed in unlimited Jewish immigration to Palestine.
In all the writings that I am aware of, though, he envisaged both Jews and Arabs sharing the territory of Palestine. Perhaps rather idealistically, but so be it.
There are writings of Einstein in which the behaviour of Jewish terrorist groups is compared to the actions of Fascists.
Obviously, though, if there is no recorded instance of Einstein stating the claimed quote, it certainly should not be attributed to him.
Perhaps it should be replaced with: "The attitude we adopt toward the Arab minority will provide the real test of our moral standards as a people." (Einstein 1955).
Not a comment on the great Albert Einstein but it is sometimes the case that massive intellect can co-exist with deeply irrational prejudice. A good example of this was the chess player Bobby Fischer.
Seen a good biopic on Fischer fairly recently on one of the streaming services. Unfortunately I can't remember the actor playing Fischer or the name of the film.
Which leads me to my anecdote when I was playing Ms Briskin's Dad and he was white (a very bad start; I much prefer playing white) and played Nc6 as his first move which immediately put me on tilt and he totally thrashed me.
Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:
The abuse was much worse than that
It was "fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, rape their mothers"
I hope they get five years inside. We need an exemplary sentence to show this shit will not be tolerated. Ever
It's curious how most focus is on the anti-Semitic nature of this abuse but not so much on the anti-women nature. It's almost as if it's taken as a given that extremists and haters would naturally threaten sexual violence against a minority group's women when wanting to do them harm.
Christina Lamb has written very movingly about this in her book "Our Bodies, Their Battlefields". It is a very necessary but horrific read.
This doesn't just raise questions about people's attitudes to Jews but about their attitude to women as well.
I think a part of the problem is that the media don't want to repeat the abuse, so they summarise it which cuts out the offensive parts.
Calling it antisemitic is technically correct, but it isn't the full story. But it plays into the media story of the conflict so it makes it nice and easy to do.
Playing uncensored what was said would show the misogyny, but nobody wants to do that so it gets dropped as not a part of the story. When it absolutely should be!
I mean where are these people's legal advisors? A moment's thought would have avoided this. I mean they are obviously racist, sexist scumbags but for heaven's sake people be clever about it.
Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:
The abuse was much worse than that
It was "fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, rape their mothers"
I hope they get five years inside. We need an exemplary sentence to show this shit will not be tolerated. Ever
It's curious how most focus is on the anti-Semitic nature of this abuse but not so much on the anti-women nature. It's almost as if it's taken as a given that extremists and haters would naturally threaten sexual violence against a minority group's women when wanting to do them harm.
Christina Lamb has written very movingly about this in her book "Our Bodies, Their Battlefields". It is a very necessary but horrific read.
This doesn't just raise questions about people's attitudes to Jews but about their attitude to women as well.
I think a part of the problem is that the media don't want to repeat the abuse, so they summarise it which cuts out the offensive parts.
Calling it antisemitic is technically correct, but it isn't the full story. But it plays into the media story of the conflict so it makes it nice and easy to do.
Playing uncensored what was said would show the misogyny, but nobody wants to do that so it gets dropped as not a part of the story. When it absolutely should be!
The (female) BBC London News reader this morning was almost too embarrassed to use the word "rape" when reporting what had been said.
Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:
The abuse was much worse than that
It was "fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, rape their mothers"
I hope they get five years inside. We need an exemplary sentence to show this shit will not be tolerated. Ever
It's curious how most focus is on the anti-Semitic nature of this abuse but not so much on the anti-women nature. It's almost as if it's taken as a given that extremists and haters would naturally threaten sexual violence against a minority group's women when wanting to do them harm.
Christina Lamb has written very movingly about this in her book "Our Bodies, Their Battlefields". It is a very necessary but horrific read.
This doesn't just raise questions about people's attitudes to Jews but about their attitude to women as well.
Indeed, it is a depressing feature of many non-traditional wars. Such wars tend to be more personal and hence more vicious. We've seen the weaponization of rape in the break up of Yugoslavia, in ISIS' reign in Kirkuk, in Boko Haram, by the Burmese military against the Rohingya, the Chinese against the Uighurs, and now by Ethiopians and Eritreans in Tigre. Alas, it does not seem confined to one culture or one religion.
Gorgeous George is a serious threat to Labour. Pro-Brexit, pro-WWC (albeit with plenty of the "pro-paki" stuff the Heavy Woollens were created to smash), anti-Labour. He won't win, but he literally could hand the seat to the Tories. Which is of course his whole purpose in standing.
Are Labour still looking like going with Jo Cox’s sister?
They haven't selected a candidate. The press got hold of her sister running to be selected and spun it as her being their candidate. I don't think it matters now - Galloway running hands the seat to the Tories.
Would it be Scottish exceptionalism to say that we saw through the charlatan much earlier than many?
"Scottish exceptionalism" ? Like the ability to have the only Left-wing-nationalist government on the planet and manages to pass it off as "Civic Nationalism" ?
Suck it up, baby. Big help having such a visible example of 'Civic Unionism' at the weekend with which to compare and contrast of course.
I’m seeing a lot of white people in the queue in Bolton.
By 'a lot of white people' do you mean 'very few Asians'? A lot of white people in Bolton would be unsurprising. Very few Asians would be surprising (though it depends on the location of course - very few Asians in Horwich or Egerton wouldn't be that surprising.) Anyway, it doesn't matter - if we get more jabs in arms in Bolton, we reduce the spread. Doesn't matter, yet, whose arms.
It was completely unscientific and I have no idea of the true proportions.
But I disagree with your view about getting jabs into any arms in Bolton. Surely this being done in part to protect the older anti-vaxxers in multigenerational homes. Won’t do much good if their youngsters don’t get jabbed.
It'll hinder the spread. Which will lead to fewer unvaxxed coming into contact with it.
There was a rather cold-hearted argument back last winter that we should prioritise not by risk but by sociability: the more people someone comes into contact with, the higher the priority to vaccinate them. Vaccinating the oldies did relatively little to diminish the spread because they didn't come into contact with many people. I don't think it was an argument either advanced seriously or taken seriously, but if you're only motivation is to take covid out of circulation as quickly as possible, that's the way to go.
Spread and hospitalisation risks are likely broadly inverse to each other tbh - so with a strategy such as ours you should get more pressure on transmission near the end, not the start of any vaccination program.
Hence the renewed focus on quicker 2nd doses is particularly galling when we're right at the point where 1st doses have a really big impact (both as they're more social, and as they're a much bigger share of the unvaccined population than 1st doses were back in January).
Can't we do both since 2nd doses are mainly AZ and 1sts Pfizer now ?
Yes, we're in a bit of a Goldilocks zone where we're able to ramp up first doses independently from second doses because we basically stopped doing first Pfizer doses for most of March and almost all of April. The second dose debt for Pfizer is now really low and we have got huge supply coming in plus a continued first dose only programme for Moderna for at least another three weeks.
I wonder if that's part of the reason for the 8-weeks move on second doses; that our AstraZeneca doses would be sat in a fridge for a month or more with nobody to use them on otherwise? Since over 40-vaccinations are all-but-finished and under-40s aren't getting AZN anymore?
On the spread vs hospitalisation, an interesting counterfactual is how would we have prioritised if vaccines had come onstream either last summer or a couple of weeks ago, at a time when rates were clearly low and either being contained or just edging up very slightly. A 'reduce spread first' rather than a 'reduce harm first' would have made more sense in those conditions, but would it have been enough to tilt the JCVI in a different direction?
It’s the UK governments purist approach to sovereignty that’s causing the problems .
No shit..
Disagree. One Happy Island makes sense to me. Eire is tiny in comparisan and hopefully solutions will be found. Nothing wrong with a bit of Enlitened Self Interest
I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1
We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.
Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?
By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
Anti-semitism no slack
Justifiable opposition to Israeli government actions might be forgiveable
That's big of you, Charles.
I think there is a mismatch here between 'is it right' and 'is it understandable'?
Let's take a deliberately ridiculous example: For no readily apparent reasons, Person A loathes all Belgians and encourages others to do the same. This is obviously wrong. Person B loathes Belgians, and encourages others to do the same. This is equally wrong. But it turns out Person B's brother was kicked to death by a mob of Belgians high on strong beer and cheese. Is Person B's loathing any less wrong? No. Is it more understandable? Yes.
That's the same excuse which many people have for bigotism though. People which were mugged by a black man, then assume that all black men are dangerous, People which were robbed when travelers were nearby assume that all travelers are thieves.
It's both wrong, and irrational.
Like when people generalise wildly from a group of racist pillocks driving down from Bradford and suddenly it is all Keir Starmer's fault.
That's a straw man. No one is saying its his fault. But there's too many like Corbyn which are tolerated and which march alongside these people and enable them in the labour party.
I'd be surprised if they are in the Labour Party. Sounds more like the sort of stunt one of the extremist or even proscribed organisations (that's another possible offence) would have pulled.
I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1
We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.
Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?
By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
Anti-semitism no slack
Justifiable opposition to Israeli government actions might be forgiveable
That's big of you, Charles.
I think there is a mismatch here between 'is it right' and 'is it understandable'?
Let's take a deliberately ridiculous example: For no readily apparent reasons, Person A loathes all Belgians and encourages others to do the same. This is obviously wrong. Person B loathes Belgians, and encourages others to do the same. This is equally wrong. But it turns out Person B's brother was kicked to death by a mob of Belgians high on strong beer and cheese. Is Person B's loathing any less wrong? No. Is it more understandable? Yes.
Sort of thing. It's literally more understandable because understandable means can be understood. However does more understandable mean less reprehensible? It does in many spheres, it's not controversial to say so, but perhaps racism is a special case where there's no room for this sort of musing. I don't know. OTOH, why should it be? OTOH, you can see the pitfalls (logical and moral) of allowing shades of grey into such a topic.
Labour's anti-semitism infestation update. John McDonnell not only was on the march with the Jewish Devil inflatable, but chose to tweet an image with an anti-semitic placard in it.
At which point do Starmer do something? Kick out the racists FFS.
How about the antisemitic quote falsely attributed to Einstein?
What is the claimed quote exactly ? I can't make it out.
Einstein was a Zionist, but of a very unusual kind.
I think there is little doubt that Einstein would be appalled at some aspects of the modern state of Israel.
It reads to me as:
"It would be my greatest sadness to see zionism do to Palestinian Arabs much of what Nazis did to Jews" - Albert Einstein
Not only would Einstein not have said anything so offensive, equating Zionism with the Nazi Holocaust of Jews is digusting antisemitism.
Einstein certainly believed in unlimited Jewish immigration to Palestine.
In all the writings that I am aware of, though, he envisaged both Jews and Arabs sharing the territory of Palestine. Perhaps rather idealistically, but so be it.
There are writings of Einstein in which the behaviour of Jewish terrorist groups is compared to the actions of Fascists.
Obviously, though, if there is no recorded instance of Einstein stating the claimed quote, it certainly should not be attributed to him.
Perhaps it should be replaced with: "The attitude we adopt toward the Arab minority will provide the real test of our moral standards as a people." (Einstein 1955).
Not a comment on the great Albert Einstein but it is sometimes the case that massive intellect can co-exist with deeply irrational prejudice. A good example of this was the chess player Bobby Fischer.
Seen a good biopic on Fischer fairly recently on one of the streaming services. Unfortunately I can't remember the actor playing Fischer or the name of the film.
Which leads me to my anecdote when I was playing Ms Briskin's Dad and he was white (a very bad start; I much prefer playing white) and played Nc6 as his first move which immediately put me on tilt and he totally thrashed me.
1. Nc6
Is that one of those moves only for Grandmasters?
I'd never seen it done before - put me on tilt straight away.
I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1
We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.
Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?
By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
Anti-semitism no slack
Justifiable opposition to Israeli government actions might be forgiveable
That's big of you, Charles.
I think there is a mismatch here between 'is it right' and 'is it understandable'?
Let's take a deliberately ridiculous example: For no readily apparent reasons, Person A loathes all Belgians and encourages others to do the same. This is obviously wrong. Person B loathes Belgians, and encourages others to do the same. This is equally wrong. But it turns out Person B's brother was kicked to death by a mob of Belgians high on strong beer and cheese. Is Person B's loathing any less wrong? No. Is it more understandable? Yes.
I think that certain actions, particularly violent ones, are differently justifiable in different situations. Sometimes what ethics label as wrong - taking a life or causing harm - can be necessary and hence not just 'understandable' but 'justifiable'. Would you deny that a mother has the right to use deadly force to protect her children under imminent mortal threat by an attacker? Few would not find that justifiable. But the same mother killing the same person in the street without knowledge that tomorrow that person would threaten her children clearly would not be.
Similarly, those of us leaving in peace, prosperity and security do not share the same 'justifiable space' as those who are denied the ballot box and whose peace, prosperity, security and life can be denied in an arbitrary instant by their oppressor.
Let's be frank. Israel has the right to exist, but not to be an oppressor. Israel does exist and is an oppressor. The situations, and hence 'justifiable spaces' of Israelis and Palestinians in Israel are not the same, regardless of the failings of the Palestinian leadership.
Armed resistance and armed uprising can clearly be justifiable. It is an underpinning principle of the US constitution.
That said, I have zero truck or tolerance for turning this issue into anti-semitism against co-religionists of another country.
You are getting seriously boring, going on about the weather. We know what the weather is like, we can look outside. There are lots of weather forums if you want to drone on about it. Although I suspect you’d bore their members too.
Enough already. It’s incredibly dull.
I love a bit of weather chat. If Mike/RCS/TSE ask me to cease then I will. Not having some other random tell me what to talk about.
I don't remember telling you to do anything. It's Leon's incessant repetitive STBO that gets my goat, not weather chat per se.
Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:
The abuse was much worse than that
It was "fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, rape their mothers"
I hope they get five years inside. We need an exemplary sentence to show this shit will not be tolerated. Ever
It's curious how most focus is on the anti-Semitic nature of this abuse but not so much on the anti-women nature. It's almost as if it's taken as a given that extremists and haters would naturally threaten sexual violence against a minority group's women when wanting to do them harm.
Christina Lamb has written very movingly about this in her book "Our Bodies, Their Battlefields". It is a very necessary but horrific read.
This doesn't just raise questions about people's attitudes to Jews but about their attitude to women as well.
Yes, the misogyny is every bit as strong as the racism.
Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:
The abuse was much worse than that
It was "fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, rape their mothers"
I hope they get five years inside. We need an exemplary sentence to show this shit will not be tolerated. Ever
Sounds like Hate Speech - which is (rightly imo) a criminal offence and can be a serious one.
But you used to disagree, didn't you? You used to say that our Hate Speech laws were a violation of free speech, no?
I don’t like hate speech laws. And you don’t need them to prosecute this. It’s a clear incitement to violence and a breach of the peace
What about race as an aggravating factor for the sentence?
Let's go kill some people!
Let's go kill the Jews!
Same thing for you?
LOL
Mate you're having an absolute shocker here. You can't even remember, still less articulate clearly, what it is you're arguing for or against and still you're hoping to trap people.
Not at all. You're far too suspicious. The point genuinely interests me.
I remember discussing the Lawrence case on here a while back, and saying that for me the fact they targeted a black teenager purely because he was black made the crime worse than if the victim had been randomly selected, ie I agreed with the concept of race as potentially an aggravating factor leading to a harsher sentence.
Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:
The abuse was much worse than that
It was "fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, rape their mothers"
I hope they get five years inside. We need an exemplary sentence to show this shit will not be tolerated. Ever
Sounds like Hate Speech - which is (rightly imo) a criminal offence and can be a serious one.
But you used to disagree, didn't you? You used to say that our Hate Speech laws were a violation of free speech, no?
I don’t like hate speech laws. And you don’t need them to prosecute this. It’s a clear incitement to violence and a breach of the peace
What about race as an aggravating factor for the sentence?
Let's go kill some people!
Let's go kill the Jews!
Same thing for you?
LOL
Mate you're having an absolute shocker here. You can't even remember, still less articulate clearly, what it is you're arguing for or against and still you're hoping to trap people.
Not at all. You're far too suspicious. The point genuinely interests me.
I remember discussing the Lawrence case on here a while back, and saying that for me the fact they targeted a black teenager purely because he was black made the crime worse than if the victim had been randomly selected, ie I agreed with the concept of race as potentially an aggravating factor leading to a harsher sentence.
Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:
The abuse was much worse than that
It was "fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, rape their mothers"
I hope they get five years inside. We need an exemplary sentence to show this shit will not be tolerated. Ever
Sounds like Hate Speech - which is (rightly imo) a criminal offence and can be a serious one.
But you used to disagree, didn't you? You used to say that our Hate Speech laws were a violation of free speech, no?
I don’t like hate speech laws. And you don’t need them to prosecute this. It’s a clear incitement to violence and a breach of the peace
What about race as an aggravating factor for the sentence?
Let's go kill some people!
Let's go kill the Jews!
Same thing for you?
LOL
Mate you're having an absolute shocker here. You can't even remember, still less articulate clearly, what it is you're arguing for or against and still you're hoping to trap people.
Not at all. You're far too suspicious. The point genuinely interests me.
I remember discussing the Lawrence case on here a while back, and saying that for me the fact they targeted a black teenager purely because he was black made the crime worse than if the victim had been randomly selected, ie I agreed with the concept of race as potentially an aggravating factor leading to a harsher sentence.
This is similar.
Righty ho.
And, sorry, forget the key bit - I was surprised at the level of disagreement. How many people were of the view, nope, a stabbing's a stabbing, end of.
So it was another whirl at that from a slightly different angle with a slightly different bunch of posters.
Comments
No, thank you.
Whoever talks most about it loses votes in my opinion
Similarly, those of us leaving in peace, prosperity and security do not share the same 'justifiable space' as those who are denied the ballot box and whose peace, prosperity, security and life can be denied in an arbitrary instant by their oppressor.
Let's be frank. Israel has the right to exist, but not to be an oppressor. Israel does exist and is an oppressor. The situations, and hence 'justifiable spaces' of Israelis and Palestinians in Israel are not the same, regardless of the failings of the Palestinian leadership.
Armed resistance and armed uprising can clearly be justifiable. It is an underpinning principle of the US constitution.
That said, I have zero truck or tolerance for turning this issue into anti-semitism against co-religionists of another country.
It's both wrong, and irrational.
The question is where do they come from - it isn't impossible that they come from China or Russia ( I saw someone say Iran - but nah can't see that ) - but it seems unlikely.
You are getting seriously boring, going on about the weather. We know what the weather is like, we can look outside. There are lots of weather forums if you want to drone on about it. Although I suspect you’d bore their members too.
Enough already. It’s incredibly dull.
Let's go kill some people!
Let's go kill the Jews!
Same thing for you?
Mate you're having an absolute shocker here. You can't even remember, still less articulate clearly, what it is you're arguing for or against and still you're hoping to trap people.
TIA.
Seen a good biopic on Fischer fairly recently on one of the streaming services. Unfortunately I can't remember the actor playing Fischer or the name of the film.
Which leads me to my anecdote when I was playing Ms Briskin's Dad and he was white (a very bad start; I much prefer playing white) and played Nc6 as his first move which immediately put me on tilt and he totally thrashed me.
However, holding onto wrong generalizations is irrational, and failure to modify 'first draft' generalizations in the face of new contradictory evidence is wrong and irrational.
I would say that, absent other context, immediately after being mugged by a black person (and we could insert any class group here - white youths wearing Doc Martins, Arabs, Jews, whatever), viewing all black men as potentially dangerous is both wrong and rational. Holding onto that belief when further exposures prove that not all black men are dangerous (indeed, that the vast majority of them are not) is wrong, irrational and immoral.
......Nobody EXPECTS the Spanish inquisition........!!
NEW: @DavidGHFrost tells @CommonsEU that he's looking for someone from outside govt/civil service to head new unit, working to him, looking for benefits of #Brexit and deregulation....suggestions on a postcard (or Tweet) please...
https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1394289417586724865
CON: 43% (+1)
LAB: 32% (-2)
LDEM: 8% (-)
GRN: 5% (+1)
via @SavantaComRes, 14 - 16 May
Chgs. w/ 09 May
Christina Lamb has written very movingly about this in her book "Our Bodies, Their Battlefields". It is a very necessary but horrific read.
This doesn't just raise questions about people's attitudes to Jews but about their attitude to women as well.
Simon the Just, eh? No wonder the problem seems to be intractable.
These are the number for Saturday, and there were 300k on Sunday.
Calling it antisemitic is technically correct, but it isn't the full story. But it plays into the media story of the conflict so it makes it nice and easy to do.
Playing uncensored what was said would show the misogyny, but nobody wants to do that so it gets dropped as not a part of the story. When it absolutely should be!
@timspector
·
@TimSpector 9m
Worried about the Indian variant? While our latest ZOE data still shows hotspots in Bolton Bedford, Oldham and Glasgow where the variant exists- the UK picture is not showing any signs of an increase with cases staying at around 2000 symptomatic cases per day which is v.low. Thx
Not sure 'IDS is on the case' is the convincing answer Frosty thinks it is.
https://twitter.com/rafaelbehr/status/1394290364916420613
The ones Gov'ts always used to have shitty results in.
The Palestinians say that its their home that they were settled in by the Jordanians in the 50s.
The Courts have backed the Jewish owners of the land.
Is that one of those moves only for Grandmasters?
Don’t travel to amber list countries, says No 10 despite no ban https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/17/dont-travel-to-amber-list-countries-says-no-10-despite-no-ban
Big help having such a visible example of 'Civic Unionism' at the weekend with which to compare and contrast of course.
Crack on.
I remember discussing the Lawrence case on here a while back, and saying that for me the fact they targeted a black teenager purely because he was black made the crime worse than if the victim had been randomly selected, ie I agreed with the concept of race as potentially an aggravating factor leading to a harsher sentence.
This is similar.
So it was another whirl at that from a slightly different angle with a slightly different bunch of posters.