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May 17th – the day we have been waiting so long for – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 49,586
    FF43 said:

    Floater said:
    The curious thing is that French people are actually vaccinating at much higher rates than that (when they get available doses). What they tell pollsters and what that are actually doing is completely different.

    (Albeit I expect UK rates to be higher than France when the dust settles)


    The next question to ask is the ages of the anti-vaxers in France. For example, in the UK, we know that the elderly are less likely to be anti-vax.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1

    We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.

    Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
    Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
    No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
    Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
    Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?

    By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
    That protest was in London, right? Not exactly the sharp end of Israeli oppression.
    There will be plenty of people in London with a direct connection to the Arab Israeli conflict. Bound to be. But I wasn't really thinking about that. It's just a question which interests me. The concept of understandable racism. Or even rational racism. Can there be such a thing?
    No. See also:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2005/jul/08/terrorism.attackonlondon
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/24/westminster-attack-khalid-masood-anti-muslim-backlash-mosques-east-london-birmingham
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/may/23/woolwich-attack-backlash-british-muslims
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/14/britain-muslims-backlash-fear-david-haines-murder
    Yep, that is relevant. Islamophobia in response to Islamist terrorism.

    Is it equivalent though? Israel is the Jewish state. Half of the world's Jews live there and many of those who don't have a strong emotional connection to it.

    So if a Palestinian who has been the direct victim of Israeli oppression expresses antisemitic sentiment, is this as reprehensible as if (say) Ken Livingstone does?
    I'm willing to bet that most of those expressing antisemitic sentiments have had very cushy lives. Similarly, I wouldn't expect the families of those murdered by Muslim terrorists to hold a grudge against Muslims.
    Ok, but you dodged my question. Livingstone's antisemitism vs similar from a Palestinian victim of Israeli violence. Would you not judge Livingstone more harshly?

    On the general point, it's wrong imo to succumb to prejudice against whole groups based on the actions of some of that group. I'm clear in my mind about that. Still, I think context does matter, and there's room for nuance, eg with the above question.

    As another example, is it equally irrational to conflate Jews and Israel as it is to conflate Islamist terrorism and Muslims? Or is one more irrational than the other?
    I'd suspect many residents of Gaza don't have much time in their life to devote to wondering about distinction between Israel and the global Jewish population. But let's say one of them left the region and came to London, I wouldn't give them any more leeway to be antisemitic than anyone else.

    As to you're last question - they are equally irrational.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,895
    Boris Johnson's spokesman, asked if the UK will end lockdown easing on June 21 says: “We are not at a point where we can make a definitive judgment”
    https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1394262284638334976
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,641
    edited May 2021

    Labour's anti-semitism infestation update. John McDonnell not only was on the march with the Jewish Devil inflatable, but chose to tweet an image with an anti-semitic placard in it.

    At which point do Starmer do something? Kick out the racists FFS.

    Which placard?

    https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1393558381244334082/photo/1
    How about the antisemitic quote falsely attributed to Einstein?
    Ah, I didn't know about the quote but isn't it disputable whether anti-zionism is anti-semitism?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,576

    Labour's anti-semitism infestation update. John McDonnell not only was on the march with the Jewish Devil inflatable, but chose to tweet an image with an anti-semitic placard in it.

    At which point do Starmer do something? Kick out the racists FFS.

    Which placard?

    https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1393558381244334082/photo/1
    Arguably most of them, if you go by the reasoning that it is antisemitic to criticise Israel but not Hamas, Saudi Arabia and China.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,828
    FF43 said:

    Floater said:
    The curious thing is that French people are actually vaccinating at much higher rates than that (when they get available doses). What they tell pollsters and what that are actually doing is completely different.

    (Albeit I expect UK rates to be higher than France when the dust settles)


    Already levelling off at 80% though. An ominous sign.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,828
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson's spokesman, asked if the UK will end lockdown easing on June 21 says: “We are not at a point where we can make a definitive judgment”
    https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1394262284638334976

    Well of course, what a stupid question. The whole point of the long delays between the steps was to review their effect.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited May 2021
    RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson's spokesman, asked if the UK will end lockdown easing on June 21 says: “We are not at a point where we can make a definitive judgment”
    https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1394262284638334976

    Well of course, what a stupid question. The whole point of the long delays between the steps was to review their effect.
    Its like he never said data not dates...honestly my neighbours young kids ask more sensible questions about COVID than most of the media.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,361

    MattW said:

    Are we doing gardens this year?

    Mine is all running 2-4 weeks late due to a cool, frosty April. Including many of the birds.

    Blueberries just getting the start of flowers on some varieties.

    Most of our blue-tit chicks are coming along nicely, with good strong wings developing. There's one, possibly two, falling behind, but we expect at least four of the six to fledge.
    About another week to go, from the look of them. Which, from my diary is maybe a little later than usual.
    They need to be later - the caterpillars are well behind too.
    My apple tree is being hammered by aphids. I think that the weather has been too cold for ladybirds?
    Or possibly the late frosts have done for their larvae?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,703

    MattW said:

    Are we doing gardens this year?

    Mine is all running 2-4 weeks late due to a cool, frosty April. Including many of the birds.

    Blueberries just getting the start of flowers on some varieties.

    Most of our blue-tit chicks are coming along nicely, with good strong wings developing. There's one, possibly two, falling behind, but we expect at least four of the six to fledge.
    About another week to go, from the look of them. Which, from my diary is maybe a little later than usual.
    They need to be later - the caterpillars are well behind too.
    My apple tree is being hammered by aphids. I think that the weather has been too cold for ladybirds?
    As are the slugs.

    Not a single hole in a single Hosta as yet.

    Time to get out the bucket of eggshells.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1

    We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.

    Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
    Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
    No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
    Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
    Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?

    By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
    That protest was in London, right? Not exactly the sharp end of Israeli oppression.
    There will be plenty of people in London with a direct connection to the Arab Israeli conflict. Bound to be. But I wasn't really thinking about that. It's just a question which interests me. The concept of understandable racism. Or even rational racism. Can there be such a thing?
    No. See also:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2005/jul/08/terrorism.attackonlondon
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/24/westminster-attack-khalid-masood-anti-muslim-backlash-mosques-east-london-birmingham
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/may/23/woolwich-attack-backlash-british-muslims
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/14/britain-muslims-backlash-fear-david-haines-murder
    Yep, that is relevant. Islamophobia in response to Islamist terrorism.

    Is it equivalent though? Israel is the Jewish state. Half of the world's Jews live there and many of those who don't have a strong emotional connection to it.

    So if a Palestinian who has been the direct victim of Israeli oppression expresses antisemitic sentiment, is this as reprehensible as if (say) Ken Livingstone does?
    Question - if after the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sussex_Arms_pub_bombing* I had engaged in some anti-Irish racism, would I have been a shit head?

    My view is yes.

    *Drank there on occasion
    That's not quite the question. It's is about relativity and context. Having lost a loved one to Irish terrorism, would you be a lesser degree of shit head in succumbing to anti-Irish racism, compared to an anti-Irish racist who'd just picked it up at the golf club?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson's spokesman, asked if the UK will end lockdown easing on June 21 says: “We are not at a point where we can make a definitive judgment”
    https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1394262284638334976

    How stupid are all these journalists?

    It’s been said for months that each stage of the easing of restrictions will be monitored, with decisions made after around four weeks on proceeding to the next stage.

    So, on the day restrictions are eased, they’re asking questions about the next stage already.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172
    edited May 2021

    Labour's anti-semitism infestation update. John McDonnell not only was on the march with the Jewish Devil inflatable, but chose to tweet an image with an anti-semitic placard in it.

    At which point do Starmer do something? Kick out the racists FFS.

    Which placard?

    https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1393558381244334082/photo/1
    How about the antisemitic quote falsely attributed to Einstein?
    What is the claimed quote exactly ? I can't make it out.

    Einstein was a Zionist, but of a very unusual kind.

    I think there is little doubt that Einstein would be appalled at some aspects of the modern state of Israel.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited May 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson's spokesman, asked if the UK will end lockdown easing on June 21 says: “We are not at a point where we can make a definitive judgment”
    https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1394262284638334976

    How stupid are all these journalists?

    It’s been said for months that each stage of the easing of restrictions will be monitored, with decisions made after around four weeks on proceeding to the next stage.

    So, on the day restrictions are eased, they’re asking questions about the next stage already.
    I think if I had been in Boris shoes by now I would have had a total meltdown at them...look you absolute and utter thick moronic twats do you never listen to a word to anything anybody ever says. I chant data not dates repeatedly and you still ask well about this date, what about my summer holiday, why is the border not closed, then next week not open...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson's spokesman, asked if the UK will end lockdown easing on June 21 says: “We are not at a point where we can make a definitive judgment”
    https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1394262284638334976

    How stupid are all these journalists?

    It’s been said for months that each stage of the easing of restrictions will be monitored, with decisions made after around four weeks on proceeding to the next stage.

    So, on the day restrictions are eased, they’re asking questions about the next stage already.
    Because they've got nothing else to do and 24 hours of otherwise static to fill with "news"

    And asking obvious questions is cheaper than anything else...
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    FF43 said:

    Floater said:
    The curious thing is that French people are actually vaccinating at much higher rates than that (when they get available doses). What they tell pollsters and what that are actually doing is completely different.

    (Albeit I expect UK rates to be higher than France when the dust settles)


    I'm not sure those numbers contradict the 60% figure across all age ranges. At an earlier point in our rollout, we had over 90% coverage of all people over 70.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthinequalities/bulletins/coronavirusandvaccinationratesinpeopleaged70yearsandoverbysociodemographiccharacteristicengland/8december2020to11march2021
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,162
    We had a similar delivery from Michelin starred chef doing Indian food, Aktar Islam. Fantastic quality and lasted three nights for less than the cost of a night out, we will be doing much more eating in.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Labour's anti-semitism infestation update. John McDonnell not only was on the march with the Jewish Devil inflatable, but chose to tweet an image with an anti-semitic placard in it.

    At which point do Starmer do something? Kick out the racists FFS.

    Which placard?

    https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1393558381244334082/photo/1
    How about the antisemitic quote falsely attributed to Einstein?
    What is the claimed quote exactly ? I can't make it out.

    Einstein was a Zionist, but of a very unusual kind.

    I think there is little doubt that Einstein would be appalled at some aspects of the modern state of Israel.
    It reads to me as:

    "It would be my greatest sadness to see zionism do to Palestinian Arabs much of what Nazis did to Jews" - Albert Einstein

    Not only would Einstein not have said anything so offensive, equating Zionism with the Nazi Holocaust of Jews is digusting antisemitism.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited May 2021
    eek said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson's spokesman, asked if the UK will end lockdown easing on June 21 says: “We are not at a point where we can make a definitive judgment”
    https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1394262284638334976

    How stupid are all these journalists?

    It’s been said for months that each stage of the easing of restrictions will be monitored, with decisions made after around four weeks on proceeding to the next stage.

    So, on the day restrictions are eased, they’re asking questions about the next stage already.
    Because they've got nothing else to do and 24 hours of otherwise static to fill with "news"

    And asking obvious questions is cheaper than anything else...
    They could always fill their channels with interesting content instead e.g. some long form interviews perhaps. I hear these things called podcasts are rather popular.....many of them are audio and video based.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson's spokesman, asked if the UK will end lockdown easing on June 21 says: “We are not at a point where we can make a definitive judgment”
    https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1394262284638334976

    How stupid are all these journalists?

    It’s been said for months that each stage of the easing of restrictions will be monitored, with decisions made after around four weeks on proceeding to the next stage.

    So, on the day restrictions are eased, they’re asking questions about the next stage already.
    I think if I had been in Boris shoes by now I would have had a total meltdown at them...look you absolute and utter thick moronic twats do you never listen to a word to anything anybody ever says. I chant data not dates repeatedly and you still ask well about this date, what about my summer holiday, why is the border not closed, then next week not open...
    It is actually quite surprising that a stressed minister hasn’t given both barrels in response to a moronic question from the Lobby, at some point in the past 15 months. I thought Gove might have been the one to do it.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    RobD said:

    FF43 said:

    Floater said:
    The curious thing is that French people are actually vaccinating at much higher rates than that (when they get available doses). What they tell pollsters and what that are actually doing is completely different.

    (Albeit I expect UK rates to be higher than France when the dust settles)


    Already levelling off at 80% though. An ominous sign.
    I also wonder about the age effect - over here in the UK the elderly are the keenest to get jabbed. If it's the same in France, and the keenest age group is levelling off at 80%...

    On top of that, iirc France also has a pretty large ethnicity gap by age, with the eldest cohorts being pretty white, and younger cohorts much less so.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,896

    FF43 said:

    Floater said:
    The curious thing is that French people are actually vaccinating at much higher rates than that (when they get available doses). What they tell pollsters and what that are actually doing is completely different.

    (Albeit I expect UK rates to be higher than France when the dust settles)


    I'm not sure those numbers contradict the 60% figure across all age ranges. At an earlier point in our rollout, we had over 90% coverage of all people over 70.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/healthinequalities/bulletins/coronavirusandvaccinationratesinpeopleaged70yearsandoverbysociodemographiccharacteristicengland/8december2020to11march2021
    Wales is now up to 80.4% by my count on adults, or 63.3% of population.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,361
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Are we doing gardens this year?

    Mine is all running 2-4 weeks late due to a cool, frosty April. Including many of the birds.

    Blueberries just getting the start of flowers on some varieties.

    Most of our blue-tit chicks are coming along nicely, with good strong wings developing. There's one, possibly two, falling behind, but we expect at least four of the six to fledge.
    About another week to go, from the look of them. Which, from my diary is maybe a little later than usual.
    They need to be later - the caterpillars are well behind too.
    My apple tree is being hammered by aphids. I think that the weather has been too cold for ladybirds?
    As are the slugs.

    Not a single hole in a single Hosta as yet.

    Time to get out the bucket of eggshells.
    The hostas have stormed ahead in this past week of rain.

    The slugs are suffering from the resurgence of hedgehogs in the garden, following the cull of badgers.....
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795
    MattW said:

    I've been catching up on the Anna Turley XMP vs Unite / Skwawkbox legal case.

    The claim was Turley allegedly having malicious motivations in joining the cheaper section of Unite in order to vote against Mcluskey, rather than the normal section, and doing so in the alleged knowledge of that.

    Turley offered a no-cost settlement if they backed down. Nope
    And to negotiate an arrangement. Nope

    To court.

    Bang. £75k damages and eventually £1.6m liability for legal fees.

    And the chap who oversaw it all is standing to replace Len McCluskey in the next few weeks.

    Ouch.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/19/ex-labour-mp-anna-turley-awarded-libel-damages-over-union-story
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/may/13/unite-blogger-must-pay-former-labour-mp-13m-legal-costs-libel-case

    Unite are everything that is wrong with the Labour movement. I hope that Beckett wins and continues the madness.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited May 2021
    Why, why, why are ministers on the radio still banging on about washing hands? Fine, wash them, but in the seconds available to convey vital public health messages it would SO MUCH BETTER to stress ventilation instead.

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1394240945894404096?s=20

    I think I would be stressing a "3 weeks rule"...that jab you got, its not an instant invincibility shield, it takes at least 3 weeks.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    Taz said:

    We had a similar delivery from Michelin starred chef doing Indian food, Aktar Islam. Fantastic quality and lasted three nights for less than the cost of a night out, we will be doing much more eating in.

    It will be interesting to see how many chefs keep up this sort of service, once their restaurants reopen?
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,641

    Labour's anti-semitism infestation update. John McDonnell not only was on the march with the Jewish Devil inflatable, but chose to tweet an image with an anti-semitic placard in it.

    At which point do Starmer do something? Kick out the racists FFS.

    Which placard?

    https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1393558381244334082/photo/1
    How about the antisemitic quote falsely attributed to Einstein?
    What is the claimed quote exactly ? I can't make it out.

    Einstein was a Zionist, but of a very unusual kind.

    I think there is little doubt that Einstein would be appalled at some aspects of the modern state of Israel.
    It reads to me as:

    "It would be my greatest sadness to see zionism do to Palestinian Arabs much of what Nazis did to Jews" - Albert Einstein

    Not only would Einstein not have said anything so offensive, equating Zionism with the Nazi Holocaust of Jews is digusting antisemitism.
    Apparently It may be a v-crude interpretation of this quote:

    “Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in [Menachem] Begin’s behalf, and the creation of Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports fascist elements in Israel, the public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement,”

    https://jewishjournal.com/culture/318006/l-a-real-estate-mogul-mohamed-hadid-shares-disputed-einstein-quote-comparing-zionists-to-nazis/
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited May 2021
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson's spokesman, asked if the UK will end lockdown easing on June 21 says: “We are not at a point where we can make a definitive judgment”
    https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1394262284638334976

    How stupid are all these journalists?

    It’s been said for months that each stage of the easing of restrictions will be monitored, with decisions made after around four weeks on proceeding to the next stage.

    So, on the day restrictions are eased, they’re asking questions about the next stage already.
    I think if I had been in Boris shoes by now I would have had a total meltdown at them...look you absolute and utter thick moronic twats do you never listen to a word to anything anybody ever says. I chant data not dates repeatedly and you still ask well about this date, what about my summer holiday, why is the border not closed, then next week not open...
    It is actually quite surprising that a stressed minister hasn’t given both barrels in response to a moronic question from the Lobby, at some point in the past 15 months. I thought Gove might have been the one to do it.
    It was clear in the CH4 documentary about the vaccine task force, Kate Bingham had to be talked down from doing so over a number of false claims the media put out. And having seen her in that programme, I think it would have been spectacular. She comes across a person you don't want to mess with, I think she would eat most of the numpties in the lobby alive.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,896
    Gibraltar doing very well indeed according to the stats, 115% of population now with a first doses :D
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1

    We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.

    Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
    Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
    No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
    Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
    Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?

    By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
    That protest was in London, right? Not exactly the sharp end of Israeli oppression.
    There will be plenty of people in London with a direct connection to the Arab Israeli conflict. Bound to be. But I wasn't really thinking about that. It's just a question which interests me. The concept of understandable racism. Or even rational racism. Can there be such a thing?
    No. See also:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2005/jul/08/terrorism.attackonlondon
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/24/westminster-attack-khalid-masood-anti-muslim-backlash-mosques-east-london-birmingham
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2013/may/23/woolwich-attack-backlash-british-muslims
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/14/britain-muslims-backlash-fear-david-haines-murder
    Yep, that is relevant. Islamophobia in response to Islamist terrorism.

    Is it equivalent though? Israel is the Jewish state. Half of the world's Jews live there and many of those who don't have a strong emotional connection to it.

    So if a Palestinian who has been the direct victim of Israeli oppression expresses antisemitic sentiment, is this as reprehensible as if (say) Ken Livingstone does?
    I'm willing to bet that most of those expressing antisemitic sentiments have had very cushy lives. Similarly, I wouldn't expect the families of those murdered by Muslim terrorists to hold a grudge against Muslims.
    Ok, but you dodged my question. Livingstone's antisemitism vs similar from a Palestinian victim of Israeli violence. Would you not judge Livingstone more harshly?

    On the general point, it's wrong imo to succumb to prejudice against whole groups based on the actions of some of that group. I'm clear in my mind about that. Still, I think context does matter, and there's room for nuance, eg with the above question.

    As another example, is it equally irrational to conflate Jews and Israel as it is to conflate Islamist terrorism and Muslims? Or is one more irrational than the other?
    I'd suspect many residents of Gaza don't have much time in their life to devote to wondering about distinction between Israel and the global Jewish population. But let's say one of them left the region and came to London, I wouldn't give them any more leeway to be antisemitic than anyone else.

    As to you're last question - they are equally irrational.
    Ok. Thanks.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    edited May 2021
    "Dominic Cummings" on lockdowns (I think it's really him):

    Covid… Summary evidence on lockdowns. For UK political pundits obsessed with spreading nonsense on Sweden/lockdowns, cf. SW econ did a bit WORSE than Denmark which locked down, AND far more deaths in Sweden:

    image

    One of the biggest misunderstandings, spread by political pundits even now, is the ‘tradeoff’ argument. Fact: evidence clear that fast hard effective action best policy for economy AND for reducing deaths/suffering

    Best example: Taiwan. Also shows that if you REALLY get your act together not only is econ largely unscathed but life is ~ normal. But SW1 (Remain/Leave, Rt/Left) = totally hostile to learning from East Asia

    There's a general western problem based on nonsense memes like 'asians all do as they're told it won't work here'. This is what many behavioural science 'experts'/charlatans argued, disastrously, in Feb2020. This nonsense is STILL influencing policy, eg our joke borders policy


    https://twitter.com/Dominic2306/status/1394245014440529921
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,361
    The Times reporting that Labour fear the candidature of George Galloway at Batley and Spen could scupper their chance of holding the seat.....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson's spokesman, asked if the UK will end lockdown easing on June 21 says: “We are not at a point where we can make a definitive judgment”
    https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1394262284638334976

    How stupid are all these journalists?

    It’s been said for months that each stage of the easing of restrictions will be monitored, with decisions made after around four weeks on proceeding to the next stage.

    So, on the day restrictions are eased, they’re asking questions about the next stage already.
    I think if I had been in Boris shoes by now I would have had a total meltdown at them...look you absolute and utter thick moronic twats do you never listen to a word to anything anybody ever says. I chant data not dates repeatedly and you still ask well about this date, what about my summer holiday, why is the border not closed, then next week not open...
    No, it suits him. As we approach D day on 14/6 he will want an atmosphere of "Oh god, this is in the balance, I really hope Boris goes for it," prevailing.

    Then when he does "go for it" - as he will - he gets a relief and joy dividend.

    A good comparison is the run-up to the Brexit Deal on Christmas Eve. It was always happening but he wanted the nation and the pundits to fear otherwise.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    I see the NYT has claims that Bill Gates has long had "wandering eye"....can't trust these tech geeks, shakes head.
  • YBarddCwscYBarddCwsc Posts: 7,172

    Labour's anti-semitism infestation update. John McDonnell not only was on the march with the Jewish Devil inflatable, but chose to tweet an image with an anti-semitic placard in it.

    At which point do Starmer do something? Kick out the racists FFS.

    Which placard?

    https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1393558381244334082/photo/1
    How about the antisemitic quote falsely attributed to Einstein?
    What is the claimed quote exactly ? I can't make it out.

    Einstein was a Zionist, but of a very unusual kind.

    I think there is little doubt that Einstein would be appalled at some aspects of the modern state of Israel.
    It reads to me as:

    "It would be my greatest sadness to see zionism do to Palestinian Arabs much of what Nazis did to Jews" - Albert Einstein

    Not only would Einstein not have said anything so offensive, equating Zionism with the Nazi Holocaust of Jews is digusting antisemitism.
    Einstein certainly believed in unlimited Jewish immigration to Palestine.

    In all the writings that I am aware of, though, he envisaged both Jews and Arabs sharing the territory of Palestine. Perhaps rather idealistically, but so be it.

    There are writings of Einstein in which the behaviour of Jewish terrorist groups is compared to the actions of Fascists.

    Obviously, though, if there is no recorded instance of Einstein stating the claimed quote, it certainly should not be attributed to him.

    Perhaps it should be replaced with: "The attitude we adopt toward the Arab minority will provide the real test of our moral standards as a people." (Einstein 1955).
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,662

    The Times reporting that Labour fear the candidature of George Galloway at Batley and Spen could scupper their chance of holding the seat.....

    They are getting their excuses in early....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Leon said:

    MattW said:

    Are we doing gardens this year?

    Mine is all running 2-4 weeks late due to a cool, frosty April. Including many of the birds.

    Blueberries just getting the start of flowers on some varieties.

    Weathers been just rubbish. No real spring apart from a few days here and there. I remember last year we had many many sunny days during lockdown 1.
    May last year had the most sunshine hours of any month since records began. This shouldn't be possible. That record should belong to June, but May last year was so exceptionally, unusually, sunny that it holds that record.

    Even if this spring had been average it would have been a bit of a downer in comparison, but it's not managed that.

    There's some suggestion, towards the end of the month, that warm air and high pressure is on the way. But if the high pressure stays out to the Atlantic it just pulls more northerly winds down over us.
    There are some hideous forecasts this morning. Wintry air. Single digit maxima. The end of May!
    I hear June will be a scorcher though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson's spokesman, asked if the UK will end lockdown easing on June 21 says: “We are not at a point where we can make a definitive judgment”
    https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1394262284638334976

    How stupid are all these journalists?

    It’s been said for months that each stage of the easing of restrictions will be monitored, with decisions made after around four weeks on proceeding to the next stage.

    So, on the day restrictions are eased, they’re asking questions about the next stage already.
    I think if I had been in Boris shoes by now I would have had a total meltdown at them...look you absolute and utter thick moronic twats do you never listen to a word to anything anybody ever says. I chant data not dates repeatedly and you still ask well about this date, what about my summer holiday, why is the border not closed, then next week not open...
    It is actually quite surprising that a stressed minister hasn’t given both barrels in response to a moronic question from the Lobby, at some point in the past 15 months. I thought Gove might have been the one to do it.
    It was clear in the CH4 documentary about the vaccine task force, Kate Bingham had to be talked down from doing so over a number of false claims the media put out. And having seen her in that programme, I think it would have been spectacular. She comes across a person you don't want to mess with, I think she would eat most of the numpties in the lobby alive.
    That would have been fun to watch!
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,691
    Taz said:

    We had a similar delivery from Michelin starred chef doing Indian food, Aktar Islam. Fantastic quality and lasted three nights for less than the cost of a night out, we will be doing much more eating in.

    Just decided to try that based on your recommendation. Thanks.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,279
    edited May 2021

    The Times reporting that Labour fear the candidature of George Galloway at Batley and Spen could scupper their chance of holding the seat.....

    He is standing on a pro Brexit ticket though, so might take some Leave voters who would otherwise go Tory as well as old Labour voters.

    "The Workers Party GB will be contesting the Batley and Spen parliamentary by-election as the patriotic working-class alternative to #StarmerMustGo. We fought for Brexit we fought for the Union. We will fight to unite all communities, for the working people of all backgrounds."
    https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19298080.former-bradford-west-mp-george-galloway-announces-party-will-stand-batley-spen-by-election/
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,896
    This message might help get a few more vaxxed.. Covid makes you 560% more likely to suffer ED apparently...
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123

    The Times reporting that Labour fear the candidature of George Galloway at Batley and Spen could scupper their chance of holding the seat.....

    They are getting their excuses in early....
    Yeah, but will the Tories say when Galloway wins. :open_mouth:
  • alex_alex_ Posts: 7,518

    Why, why, why are ministers on the radio still banging on about washing hands? Fine, wash them, but in the seconds available to convey vital public health messages it would SO MUCH BETTER to stress ventilation instead.

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1394240945894404096?s=20

    I think I would be stressing a "3 weeks rule"...that jab you got, its not an instant invincibility shield, it takes at least 3 weeks.

    I wonder if they’re secretly switching the purpose of the public health messaging in preparation for a possible mini flu epidemic this winter... ;)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585

    Why, why, why are ministers on the radio still banging on about washing hands? Fine, wash them, but in the seconds available to convey vital public health messages it would SO MUCH BETTER to stress ventilation instead.

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1394240945894404096?s=20

    I think I would be stressing a "3 weeks rule"...that jab you got, its not an instant invincibility shield, it takes at least 3 weeks.

    I know at least three people who have been quite ill with covid - not hospitalisations, but pretty damn grotty - in the week after their jab.
    Me, I've just passed the three week mark. So I AM invincible. :smile:
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1

    We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.

    Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
    Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
    No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
    Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
    Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?

    By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
    People who really cared for the people of Palestine, I mean REALLY cared, would be asking why there hasn't been an election in Gaza since 2006 and why Abbas recently cancelled the latest one indefinitely.

    Perhaps the reason there are no elections is that Palestinians are sick and tired of being used as pawns in Hamas's terror game.
    Yes, I'd expect you to be four square behind the hardline Israeli right on this one.

    I'll file this under "anybody who REALLY cared about racism in America would be asking themselves why black on black crime is so high in Democrat controlled cities."
    And I would expect you to be behind the hardline anti-semitic left. Which you clearly are.

    Just don't contemplate handing out lessons on racism anytime soon.
    I'm not really. I do think the Palestinians are more sinned against then sinning - so I'm pro Palestine in that sense - but that's about it.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    Cookie said:

    Why, why, why are ministers on the radio still banging on about washing hands? Fine, wash them, but in the seconds available to convey vital public health messages it would SO MUCH BETTER to stress ventilation instead.

    https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/1394240945894404096?s=20

    I think I would be stressing a "3 weeks rule"...that jab you got, its not an instant invincibility shield, it takes at least 3 weeks.

    I know at least three people who have been quite ill with covid - not hospitalisations, but pretty damn grotty - in the week after their jab.
    Me, I've just passed the three week mark. So I AM invincible. :smile:
    Given the revelations about Bill Gates, I am getting a bit worried my SkyNet version might come with the side effect of a wandering eye.....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678
    IF this is true - the "news" site that tweeted it is obscure (but seems legit), then this is horrendous.

    The streets of Britain today:


    The Point News
    @TPNewsSite
    Muslim who voiced support for Israel has his house broken into and smashed up in Birmingham by pro-Palestine radicals.



    https://twitter.com/TPNewsSite/status/1394250674372812806?s=20
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,896
    tlg86 said:

    The Times reporting that Labour fear the candidature of George Galloway at Batley and Spen could scupper their chance of holding the seat.....

    They are getting their excuses in early....
    Yeah, but will the Tories say when Galloway wins. :open_mouth:
    Hah - it's not Bradford West but I think Galloway peels off a few natural Labour votes in Batley proper. I presume he'll be running a campaign focussing on Gaza ?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    I’m seeing a lot of white people in the queue in Bolton.

    By 'a lot of white people' do you mean 'very few Asians'?
    A lot of white people in Bolton would be unsurprising. Very few Asians would be surprising (though it depends on the location of course - very few Asians in Horwich or Egerton wouldn't be that surprising.)
    Anyway, it doesn't matter - if we get more jabs in arms in Bolton, we reduce the spread. Doesn't matter, yet, whose arms.
    It was completely unscientific and I have no idea of the true proportions.

    But I disagree with your view about getting jabs into any arms in Bolton. Surely this being done in part to protect the older anti-vaxxers in multigenerational homes. Won’t do much good if their youngsters don’t get jabbed.
    It'll hinder the spread. Which will lead to fewer unvaxxed coming into contact with it.

    There was a rather cold-hearted argument back last winter that we should prioritise not by risk but by sociability: the more people someone comes into contact with, the higher the priority to vaccinate them. Vaccinating the oldies did relatively little to diminish the spread because they didn't come into contact with many people.
    I don't think it was an argument either advanced seriously or taken seriously, but if you're only motivation is to take covid out of circulation as quickly as possible, that's the way to go.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    JBriskin3 said:

    kinabalu said:

    Morning all, happy (nearly) freedom day. It's quite a milestone and imo ought to be celebrated. Whatever you can now do today you should make sure to do, whether you want to or not. I certainly will be. I can't wait to get out there and hug a granny. Don't care whose it is.

    Awkward start at Waitrose though. Real foot in mouth job. I got my essentials as usual and (also as usual) asked for a packet of Marlboro Gold killer sticks to round it off. "Don't have any," said Ms Checkout. "They've been suspended."

    "Oh," I said. "Strange. Is there some sort of health scare?"

    She looked at me quizzically for a second then giggled, giving me the benefit of it being a dry-as-dust joke. Which it wasn't.

    Possible the stupidest thing I've said since "Yes, alright," to "Do you want to do some phone canvassing for Jeremy?"

    Pro-tip:

    You can get L & B Blue for under a tenner
    Under a tenner! Where? I'm guessing "underneath the arches"?
    Literally nobody I know in Liverpool buys ciggies from the shop now. They all buy either counterfeit (more likely at the moment) or smuggled. This is what punitive taxation which becomes essentially becomes prohibition in all but name happens. It drives people into even more unhealthy options and into the arms of gangsters thus creating more gang culture in the streets.

    BTW. I would love to hear some of your “call from Jeremy” stories. I imagine there were some interesting responses.
    I have to disappoint you sadly. I got sick (honest guv) and had to cry off.

    (I'm trying to kick the cigs.)

    Best of luck. I packed in a couple of months ago to support a family member who needed to pack in.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    edited May 2021
    HYUFD said:

    The Times reporting that Labour fear the candidature of George Galloway at Batley and Spen could scupper their chance of holding the seat.....

    He is standing on a pro Brexit ticket though, so might take some Leave voters who would otherwise go Tory as well as old Labour voters.

    "The Workers Party GB will be contesting the Batley and Spen parliamentary by-election as the patriotic working-class alternative to #StarmerMustGo. We fought for Brexit we fought for the Union. We will fight to unite all communities, for the working people of all backgrounds."
    https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19298080.former-bradford-west-mp-george-galloway-announces-party-will-stand-batley-spen-by-election/
    So he is basically standing on the exact same position as the Heavy Woollens if they stand (albeit with slightly less added racism).
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    edited May 2021
    MaxPB said:

    Got a seriously dead arm. Otherwise nothing else so far.

    Mine took a while to kick in. I didn't even have any discomfort in my arm, until the next day....then woke up feeling like Tyson Fury had punched me in the arm and then I felt utter shit for 3 days.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,896
    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    I’m seeing a lot of white people in the queue in Bolton.

    By 'a lot of white people' do you mean 'very few Asians'?
    A lot of white people in Bolton would be unsurprising. Very few Asians would be surprising (though it depends on the location of course - very few Asians in Horwich or Egerton wouldn't be that surprising.)
    Anyway, it doesn't matter - if we get more jabs in arms in Bolton, we reduce the spread. Doesn't matter, yet, whose arms.
    It was completely unscientific and I have no idea of the true proportions.

    But I disagree with your view about getting jabs into any arms in Bolton. Surely this being done in part to protect the older anti-vaxxers in multigenerational homes. Won’t do much good if their youngsters don’t get jabbed.
    It'll hinder the spread. Which will lead to fewer unvaxxed coming into contact with it.

    There was a rather cold-hearted argument back last winter that we should prioritise not by risk but by sociability: the more people someone comes into contact with, the higher the priority to vaccinate them. Vaccinating the oldies did relatively little to diminish the spread because they didn't come into contact with many people.
    I don't think it was an argument either advanced seriously or taken seriously, but if you're only motivation is to take covid out of circulation as quickly as possible, that's the way to go.
    Spread and hospitalisation risks are likely broadly inverse to each other tbh - so with a strategy such as ours you should get more pressure on transmission near the end, not the start of any vaccination program.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678
    The Birmingham video appears to be true. This guy is the victim. Jeez

    https://twitter.com/MuftiAbuLayth/status/1394112894258884611?s=20
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    edited May 2021
    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    The Times reporting that Labour fear the candidature of George Galloway at Batley and Spen could scupper their chance of holding the seat.....

    They are getting their excuses in early....
    Yeah, but will the Tories say when Galloway wins. :open_mouth:
    Hah - it's not Bradford West but I think Galloway peels off a few natural Labour votes in Batley proper. I presume he'll be running a campaign focussing on Gaza ?
    George is all about attention seeking now. He's become completely pure 100% ego. There is nothing else.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795
    edited May 2021
    HYUFD said:

    The Times reporting that Labour fear the candidature of George Galloway at Batley and Spen could scupper their chance of holding the seat.....

    He is standing on a pro Brexit ticket though, so might take some Leave voters who would otherwise go Tory as well as old Labour voters.

    "The Workers Party GB will be contesting the Batley and Spen parliamentary by-election as the patriotic working-class alternative to #StarmerMustGo. We fought for Brexit we fought for the Union. We will fight to unite all communities, for the working people of all backgrounds."
    https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19298080.former-bradford-west-mp-george-galloway-announces-party-will-stand-batley-spen-by-election/
    Gorgeous George is a serious threat to Labour. Pro-Brexit, pro-WWC (albeit with plenty of the "pro-paki" stuff the Heavy Woollens were created to smash), anti-Labour. He won't win, but he literally could hand the seat to the Tories. Which is of course his whole purpose in standing.

    EDIT - my use of "paki" in quotes is deliberate. That part of oop north - east Lancashire / west Yorkshire has a longstanding unhappy relationship with the good folk of the commonwealth who were encouraged to emigrate there. Growing up in Rochdale, "Paki" was shorthand for any British Asians regardless of whether or not they are from Pakistani heritage. When the Heavy Wollen Independents refers to cracking down on crime, it is "paki" crime they are thinking about - grooming gangs etc.

    It is straight-up bigotry, and Galloway will lap it up.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,896
    kinabalu said:

    Pulpstar said:

    tlg86 said:

    The Times reporting that Labour fear the candidature of George Galloway at Batley and Spen could scupper their chance of holding the seat.....

    They are getting their excuses in early....
    Yeah, but will the Tories say when Galloway wins. :open_mouth:
    Hah - it's not Bradford West but I think Galloway peels off a few natural Labour votes in Batley proper. I presume he'll be running a campaign focussing on Gaza ?
    George is all about attention seeking now. He's become completely pure 100% ego. There is nothing else.
    Lol I note he's running on a pro Brexit platform now, so completely different targetting. Shouldn't really hurt Labour too much tbh. But a convienient excuse.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    I see the NYT has claims that Bill Gates has long had "wandering eye"....can't trust these tech geeks, shakes head.

    What was it that first attracted to you to the multi-billionaire businessman....
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,080
    I went into Edinburgh city centre yesterday for the first time in nearly fifteen months. Just for a walk about, but I found it quite anxious at times, being around other people.

    I do finally have a first dose appointment for Thursday, but I'm not looking forward at all to being so close to other people at the vaccination centre. I think I'm going to have a job of work to do to desensitize myself to proximity with strangers once I'm double-dosed. I've become a proper hermit.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678
    ALIENS for Moonshine


    "Bill Whitaker: You know how this sounds? It sounds nutty, wacky. 

    "Lue Elizondo: Look, Bill, I'm not, I'm not telling you that, that it doesn't sound wacky. What I'm telling you, it's real. The question is, what is it? What are its intentions? What are its capabilities? 

    "Lue Elizondo: Imagine a technology that can do 6-to-700 g-forces, that can fly at 13,000 miles an hour, that can evade radar and that can fly through air and water and possibly space. And oh, by the way, has no obvious signs of propulsion, no wings, no control surfaces and yet still can defy the natural effects of Earth's gravity. That's precisely what we're seeing. "


     
    "These photographs were taken in 2019 in the same area. The Pentagon confirms these are images of objects it can't identify. Lieutenant Graves told us pilots training off the Atlantic Coast see things like that all the time.

    "Ryan Graves: Every day. Every day for at least a couple years.

    "Bill Whitaker: Wait a minute, every day for a couple of years?

    "Ryan Graves: Uh-huh.

    "Ryan Graves: I don't see an exhaust plume."


    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ufo-military-intelligence-60-minutes-2021-05-16/?ftag=CNM-00-10aab7d&linkId=118884859
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    HYUFD said:

    The Times reporting that Labour fear the candidature of George Galloway at Batley and Spen could scupper their chance of holding the seat.....

    He is standing on a pro Brexit ticket though, so might take some Leave voters who would otherwise go Tory as well as old Labour voters.

    "The Workers Party GB will be contesting the Batley and Spen parliamentary by-election as the patriotic working-class alternative to #StarmerMustGo. We fought for Brexit we fought for the Union. We will fight to unite all communities, for the working people of all backgrounds."
    https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19298080.former-bradford-west-mp-george-galloway-announces-party-will-stand-batley-spen-by-election/
    Gorgeous George is a serious threat to Labour. Pro-Brexit, pro-WWC (albeit with plenty of the "pro-paki" stuff the Heavy Woollens were created to smash), anti-Labour. He won't win, but he literally could hand the seat to the Tories. Which is of course his whole purpose in standing.
    Are Labour still looking like going with Jo Cox’s sister?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    I can usually unseemly most optical illusions.
    This one...

    https://twitter.com/SteveStuWill/status/1394039984126971904
    One of the most powerful brightness illusions I've seen: The center of the image looks much brighter than the rest – but it's only as bright as the white lines at the periphery.
    Bizarrely, illusions like this cause people's pupils to contract
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    Just been looking through by-election records.
    Since 2010, there have only been four occasions when a by-election has resulted in both a different party and a different candidate representing the seat (Corby, Copeland, Brecon and Radnor, Hartlepool). Plus two where it was same candidate, different party (Carswell and Reckless).
    So two gov lost to opposition; two opposition loss to government.
    In the 80s and 90s, it felt like the government were losing by-elections about twice a year.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    @TOPPING - I think the problem is that this whole issue is symptomatic of society today. No one in politics or the media is brave enough to say what is being said on here - "we are not going to lockdown to protect individuals."

    Ultimately we had to do all this to prevent what's happened in Brazil and India. Sacrificing our personal freedoms was worth it for the greater good.

    No one (I'm looking at Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer) is prepared to say it as it is. You just know that if lots of people from ethnic minorities start dying this autumn from COVID, then Labour (and Marcus Rashford and the rest of the twatterati) will be all over it. And I think this worries the government (it shouldn't).

    You want the government to "say it as it is" and not be worried about "lots of anti-vaxxers ethnic minorities dying in the Autumn from Covid"?
    That's what I want them to say. Whether it's Billy Bob in Birmingham, AL or Muhammad in Birmingham, England, I don't care.
    Funny thing is, the government has been not vaxxing schoolchildren until it has been tested on them. So is it *that* irrational for someone to ask if it has been tested on "people like me"? Same with pregnant women till recently iirc.
    Yes. Genetic bridging studies are wholly unnecessary are just a non-tariff trade barrier. Tests on pregnant women are necessary because medicines can have different impacts on foetuses (eg angiogenesis inhibitors are not good for pregnant women)
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,342
    edited May 2021
    For how many years will folk be running on pro-Brexit platforms?
    I imagine the Tories will be for decades.
    Maybe the Liberals should dust off Irish Home Rule? It may prove popular.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795
    Sandpit said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Times reporting that Labour fear the candidature of George Galloway at Batley and Spen could scupper their chance of holding the seat.....

    He is standing on a pro Brexit ticket though, so might take some Leave voters who would otherwise go Tory as well as old Labour voters.

    "The Workers Party GB will be contesting the Batley and Spen parliamentary by-election as the patriotic working-class alternative to #StarmerMustGo. We fought for Brexit we fought for the Union. We will fight to unite all communities, for the working people of all backgrounds."
    https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19298080.former-bradford-west-mp-george-galloway-announces-party-will-stand-batley-spen-by-election/
    Gorgeous George is a serious threat to Labour. Pro-Brexit, pro-WWC (albeit with plenty of the "pro-paki" stuff the Heavy Woollens were created to smash), anti-Labour. He won't win, but he literally could hand the seat to the Tories. Which is of course his whole purpose in standing.
    Are Labour still looking like going with Jo Cox’s sister?
    They haven't selected a candidate. The press got hold of her sister running to be selected and spun it as her being their candidate. I don't think it matters now - Galloway running hands the seat to the Tories.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1

    We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.

    Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
    Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
    No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
    Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
    Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?

    By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
    Anti-semitism no slack

    Justifiable opposition to Israeli government actions might be forgiveable
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,460
    Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678

    Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:

    The abuse was much worse than that

    It was "fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, rape their mothers"

    I hope they get five years inside. We need an exemplary sentence to show this shit will not be tolerated. Ever
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795

    Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:

    The people that McDonnell, Corbyn and Abbott are happy to associate themselves with.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    dixiedean said:

    For how many years will folk be running on pro-Brexit platforms?
    I imagine the Tories will be for decades.
    Maybe the Liberals should dust off Irish Home Rule? It may prove popular.

    Isn't that comparable to what the FF/FG difference is, in Ireland?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314

    Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:

    Hopefully the judge sees the journey as aggravating circumstances.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,576
    edited May 2021
    Charles said:

    tlg86 said:

    kinabalu said:

    tlg86 said:

    @TOPPING - I think the problem is that this whole issue is symptomatic of society today. No one in politics or the media is brave enough to say what is being said on here - "we are not going to lockdown to protect individuals."

    Ultimately we had to do all this to prevent what's happened in Brazil and India. Sacrificing our personal freedoms was worth it for the greater good.

    No one (I'm looking at Boris Johnson and Keir Starmer) is prepared to say it as it is. You just know that if lots of people from ethnic minorities start dying this autumn from COVID, then Labour (and Marcus Rashford and the rest of the twatterati) will be all over it. And I think this worries the government (it shouldn't).

    You want the government to "say it as it is" and not be worried about "lots of anti-vaxxers ethnic minorities dying in the Autumn from Covid"?
    That's what I want them to say. Whether it's Billy Bob in Birmingham, AL or Muhammad in Birmingham, England, I don't care.
    Funny thing is, the government has been not vaxxing schoolchildren until it has been tested on them. So is it *that* irrational for someone to ask if it has been tested on "people like me"? Same with pregnant women till recently iirc.
    Yes. Genetic bridging studies are wholly unnecessary are just a non-tariff trade barrier. Tests on pregnant women are necessary because medicines can have different impacts on foetuses (eg angiogenesis inhibitors are not good for pregnant women)
    Different question. Yes, the vaccine-hesitant are wrong, but not necessarily irrational.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,456

    Sandpit said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Boris Johnson's spokesman, asked if the UK will end lockdown easing on June 21 says: “We are not at a point where we can make a definitive judgment”
    https://twitter.com/kitty_donaldson/status/1394262284638334976

    How stupid are all these journalists?

    It’s been said for months that each stage of the easing of restrictions will be monitored, with decisions made after around four weeks on proceeding to the next stage.

    So, on the day restrictions are eased, they’re asking questions about the next stage already.
    I think if I had been in Boris shoes by now I would have had a total meltdown at them...look you absolute and utter thick moronic twats do you never listen to a word to anything anybody ever says. I chant data not dates repeatedly and you still ask well about this date, what about my summer holiday, why is the border not closed, then next week not open...
    I'd like some of the spox to simply use that line from US courtroom dramas: "Asked and answered".
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:

    The people that McDonnell, Corbyn and Abbott are happy to associate themselves with.
    Reliable Labour voters. It's not just Jez and the far left that associate with these scumbags. This is the bit of the Labour party they try and hide from the quinoa eating guardian readers.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,314
    MaxPB said:

    Got a seriously dead arm. Otherwise nothing else so far.

    If it can lift a pint in the pub, it’s not dead!
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    MaxPB said:

    Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:

    The people that McDonnell, Corbyn and Abbott are happy to associate themselves with.
    Reliable Labour voters. It's not just Jez and the far left that associate with these scumbags. This is the bit of the Labour party they try and hide from the quinoa eating guardian readers.
    Or its the bit of the Labour Party the Guardianistas deliberately turn a blind eye towards, while making meally mouthed excuses.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,077
    Sandpit said:

    MaxPB said:

    Got a seriously dead arm. Otherwise nothing else so far.

    If it can lift a pint in the pub, it’s not dead!
    Other arms (well another arm) is available.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1

    We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.

    Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
    Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
    No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
    Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
    Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?

    By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
    Anti-semitism no slack

    Justifiable opposition to Israeli government actions might be forgiveable
    That's big of you, Charles.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,585
    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1

    We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.

    Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
    Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
    No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
    Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
    Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?

    By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
    Anti-semitism no slack

    Justifiable opposition to Israeli government actions might be forgiveable
    That's big of you, Charles.
    I think there is a mismatch here between 'is it right' and 'is it understandable'?

    Let's take a deliberately ridiculous example: For no readily apparent reasons, Person A loathes all Belgians and encourages others to do the same. This is obviously wrong. Person B loathes Belgians, and encourages others to do the same. This is equally wrong. But it turns out Person B's brother was kicked to death by a mob of Belgians high on strong beer and cheese. Is Person B's loathing any less wrong? No. Is it more understandable? Yes.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Labour's anti-semitism infestation update. John McDonnell not only was on the march with the Jewish Devil inflatable, but chose to tweet an image with an anti-semitic placard in it.

    At which point do Starmer do something? Kick out the racists FFS.

    Which placard?

    https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1393558381244334082/photo/1
    How about the antisemitic quote falsely attributed to Einstein?
    What is the claimed quote exactly ? I can't make it out.

    Einstein was a Zionist, but of a very unusual kind.

    I think there is little doubt that Einstein would be appalled at some aspects of the modern state of Israel.
    It reads to me as:

    "It would be my greatest sadness to see zionism do to Palestinian Arabs much of what Nazis did to Jews" - Albert Einstein

    Not only would Einstein not have said anything so offensive, equating Zionism with the Nazi Holocaust of Jews is digusting antisemitism.
    Apparently It may be a v-crude interpretation of this quote:

    “Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in [Menachem] Begin’s behalf, and the creation of Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports fascist elements in Israel, the public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement,”

    https://jewishjournal.com/culture/318006/l-a-real-estate-mogul-mohamed-hadid-shares-disputed-einstein-quote-comparing-zionists-to-nazis/
    Not remotely crude, its an entirely fake, entirely dodgy, very antisemitic quote.

    To suggest that zionists/jews are treating the Palestinians like the Nazis treated the Jews is disgusting and if it doesn't strike you as such then that is alarming.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,513
    How Taiwan finally fell

    https://taipology.substack.com/p/how-taiwan-finally-fell
    ...Like in previous breaches that were successfully contained, airline crews were the chink in Taiwan’s COVID armor. You have to remember back in the the halcyon days of early April, Taiwan was feeling so good about itself that it announced the opening of a tourism travel bubble with Palau. On April 15, they relaxed quarantine rules for flight crews.

    At this point, the unfortunate underestimation of a mighty foe met with mind-boggling mismanagement and petty greed.

    See the China Airline pilots were being quarantined/doing their self-health management at the Taoyuan Novotel. At the same time, the Novotel decided it was a great time to run a promo packages for domestic tourists who are “air travel fans.” For NT$3000 a night (around US$100), you get to stay in the Novotel and watch the flights take off and land from the comfort of your room at nearby Taoyuan airport. The Taoyuan Tourism Bureau even promoted this insanity with a subsidy. “Just Love Taoyuan! Discount for stays!”...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678
    12C. Thunder. Satanically dark clouds. Driving rain. Like a bad day in late November
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Times reporting that Labour fear the candidature of George Galloway at Batley and Spen could scupper their chance of holding the seat.....

    He is standing on a pro Brexit ticket though, so might take some Leave voters who would otherwise go Tory as well as old Labour voters.

    "The Workers Party GB will be contesting the Batley and Spen parliamentary by-election as the patriotic working-class alternative to #StarmerMustGo. We fought for Brexit we fought for the Union. We will fight to unite all communities, for the working people of all backgrounds."
    https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19298080.former-bradford-west-mp-george-galloway-announces-party-will-stand-batley-spen-by-election/
    So he is basically standing on the exact same position as the Heavy Woollens if they stand (albeit with slightly less added racism).
    Jo Cox's sister. The totally not racist Woollens "talking about what other politicians are scared to talk about" and wishing to promote a "unifying national identity". Gorgeous George hoping to appeal to Muslims AND WWC leavers. The all conquering Bluekip Tories.

    What a smorgasbord. Counting the days.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795
    Eugh. I have just had a read through George Galloway's twitter feed :s
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,320
    315,063 vaccinations in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 105,520 1st doses / 157,687 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 15,455 / 17,505
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 8,643 / 1,757
    NI 1,700 / 6,796
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:

    The people that McDonnell, Corbyn and Abbott are happy to associate themselves with.
    And Gorgeous George!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,795
    kinabalu said:

    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    The Times reporting that Labour fear the candidature of George Galloway at Batley and Spen could scupper their chance of holding the seat.....

    He is standing on a pro Brexit ticket though, so might take some Leave voters who would otherwise go Tory as well as old Labour voters.

    "The Workers Party GB will be contesting the Batley and Spen parliamentary by-election as the patriotic working-class alternative to #StarmerMustGo. We fought for Brexit we fought for the Union. We will fight to unite all communities, for the working people of all backgrounds."
    https://www.thetelegraphandargus.co.uk/news/19298080.former-bradford-west-mp-george-galloway-announces-party-will-stand-batley-spen-by-election/
    So he is basically standing on the exact same position as the Heavy Woollens if they stand (albeit with slightly less added racism).
    Jo Cox's sister. The totally not racist Woollens "talking about what other politicians are scared to talk about" and wishing to promote a "unifying national identity". Gorgeous George hoping to appeal to Muslims AND WWC leavers. The all conquering Bluekip Tories.

    What a smorgasbord. Counting the days.
    Question will be what excuses Starmer comes out with when the Tories win the by-election. Electorate too thick / racist?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678

    Labour's anti-semitism infestation update. John McDonnell not only was on the march with the Jewish Devil inflatable, but chose to tweet an image with an anti-semitic placard in it.

    At which point do Starmer do something? Kick out the racists FFS.

    Which placard?

    https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1393558381244334082/photo/1
    How about the antisemitic quote falsely attributed to Einstein?
    What is the claimed quote exactly ? I can't make it out.

    Einstein was a Zionist, but of a very unusual kind.

    I think there is little doubt that Einstein would be appalled at some aspects of the modern state of Israel.
    It reads to me as:

    "It would be my greatest sadness to see zionism do to Palestinian Arabs much of what Nazis did to Jews" - Albert Einstein

    Not only would Einstein not have said anything so offensive, equating Zionism with the Nazi Holocaust of Jews is digusting antisemitism.
    Apparently It may be a v-crude interpretation of this quote:

    “Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in [Menachem] Begin’s behalf, and the creation of Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports fascist elements in Israel, the public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement,”

    https://jewishjournal.com/culture/318006/l-a-real-estate-mogul-mohamed-hadid-shares-disputed-einstein-quote-comparing-zionists-to-nazis/
    Not remotely crude, its an entirely fake, entirely dodgy, very antisemitic quote.

    To suggest that zionists/jews are treating the Palestinians like the Nazis treated the Jews is disgusting and if it doesn't strike you as such then that is alarming.
    Entirely fair to compare Israel to apartheid South Africa, however
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,947
    Leon said:

    Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:

    The abuse was much worse than that

    It was "fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, rape their mothers"

    I hope they get five years inside. We need an exemplary sentence to show this shit will not be tolerated. Ever
    Sounds like Hate Speech - which is (rightly imo) a criminal offence and can be a serious one.

    But you used to disagree, didn't you? You used to say that our Hate Speech laws were a violation of free speech, no?
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Leon said:

    Labour's anti-semitism infestation update. John McDonnell not only was on the march with the Jewish Devil inflatable, but chose to tweet an image with an anti-semitic placard in it.

    At which point do Starmer do something? Kick out the racists FFS.

    Which placard?

    https://twitter.com/johnmcdonnellMP/status/1393558381244334082/photo/1
    How about the antisemitic quote falsely attributed to Einstein?
    What is the claimed quote exactly ? I can't make it out.

    Einstein was a Zionist, but of a very unusual kind.

    I think there is little doubt that Einstein would be appalled at some aspects of the modern state of Israel.
    It reads to me as:

    "It would be my greatest sadness to see zionism do to Palestinian Arabs much of what Nazis did to Jews" - Albert Einstein

    Not only would Einstein not have said anything so offensive, equating Zionism with the Nazi Holocaust of Jews is digusting antisemitism.
    Apparently It may be a v-crude interpretation of this quote:

    “Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in [Menachem] Begin’s behalf, and the creation of Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports fascist elements in Israel, the public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement,”

    https://jewishjournal.com/culture/318006/l-a-real-estate-mogul-mohamed-hadid-shares-disputed-einstein-quote-comparing-zionists-to-nazis/
    Not remotely crude, its an entirely fake, entirely dodgy, very antisemitic quote.

    To suggest that zionists/jews are treating the Palestinians like the Nazis treated the Jews is disgusting and if it doesn't strike you as such then that is alarming.
    Entirely fair to compare Israel to apartheid South Africa, however
    Really?
    are there areas of Israel where Arab citizens cannot go?
    Do Arab citizens of Israel not have the vote?
    Do Arab citizens live in townships whilst Jewish citizens live in their own communities?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,678
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:

    The abuse was much worse than that

    It was "fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, rape their mothers"

    I hope they get five years inside. We need an exemplary sentence to show this shit will not be tolerated. Ever
    Sounds like Hate Speech - which is (rightly imo) a criminal offence and can be a serious one.

    But you used to disagree, didn't you? You used to say that our Hate Speech laws were a violation of free speech, no?
    I don’t like hate speech laws. And you don’t need them to prosecute this. It’s a clear incitement to violence and a breach of the peace
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528

    315,063 vaccinations in 🇬🇧 yesterday

    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 105,520 1st doses / 157,687 2nd doses
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿 15,455 / 17,505
    🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 8,643 / 1,757
    NI 1,700 / 6,796

    Very strong day for Monday reporting, hopefully we get to around 2m first doses this week and the remaining over 30s invited ASAP!
  • JBriskin3JBriskin3 Posts: 1,254
    Accumulator

    Bournemouth 8/5
    Swansea City 5/2

    What do you reckon lads?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,528
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Convoy of cars that drove through Jewish community in London yelling 'f*** their mothers' had 'travelled 200 miles from Bradford’:

    The abuse was much worse than that

    It was "fuck the Jews, rape their daughters, rape their mothers"

    I hope they get five years inside. We need an exemplary sentence to show this shit will not be tolerated. Ever
    Sounds like Hate Speech - which is (rightly imo) a criminal offence and can be a serious one.

    But you used to disagree, didn't you? You used to say that our Hate Speech laws were a violation of free speech, no?
    No, it's inciting violence. They're instructing people to commit acts of violence against women.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,573
    Pulpstar said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    Cookie said:

    tlg86 said:

    I’m seeing a lot of white people in the queue in Bolton.

    By 'a lot of white people' do you mean 'very few Asians'?
    A lot of white people in Bolton would be unsurprising. Very few Asians would be surprising (though it depends on the location of course - very few Asians in Horwich or Egerton wouldn't be that surprising.)
    Anyway, it doesn't matter - if we get more jabs in arms in Bolton, we reduce the spread. Doesn't matter, yet, whose arms.
    It was completely unscientific and I have no idea of the true proportions.

    But I disagree with your view about getting jabs into any arms in Bolton. Surely this being done in part to protect the older anti-vaxxers in multigenerational homes. Won’t do much good if their youngsters don’t get jabbed.
    It'll hinder the spread. Which will lead to fewer unvaxxed coming into contact with it.

    There was a rather cold-hearted argument back last winter that we should prioritise not by risk but by sociability: the more people someone comes into contact with, the higher the priority to vaccinate them. Vaccinating the oldies did relatively little to diminish the spread because they didn't come into contact with many people.
    I don't think it was an argument either advanced seriously or taken seriously, but if you're only motivation is to take covid out of circulation as quickly as possible, that's the way to go.
    Spread and hospitalisation risks are likely broadly inverse to each other tbh - so with a strategy such as ours you should get more pressure on transmission near the end, not the start of any vaccination program.
    Hence the renewed focus on quicker 2nd doses is particularly galling when we're right at the point where 1st doses have a really big impact (both as they're more social, and as they're a much bigger share of the unvaccined population than 1st doses were back in January).
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,123
    edited May 2021
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    Charles said:

    kinabalu said:

    Scott_xP said:

    I hadn't seen a proper image of the inflatable Corbyn stood next to at the demo. He should be expelled from the Labour Party immediately. Not suspended. Expelled. As should any other Labour MP or member who attended. https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1394218824958947328/photo/1

    We've got yet another day of the Corbynites claiming Jeremy was present, but not involved. Or didn't see the racist caricature. Or didn't know who else was going to be there. It just goes on. Again and again and again. Excuse after excuse after excuse. And it will just carry on.

    Makes a change for Corbyn to be in trouble with Islamophobic rather than anti-Semitic issues....
    Huh? Its supposed to be a Jew. Looks like it was lifted from the Running of the Jew scene in the first Borat movie.
    No its supposed to be Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan, but they have put the antisemitic devil horn trope on him...its to do with him normalizing Abu Dhab relations with Israel.
    Exactly. They have taken an arab and turned him into a devil jew. Its openly anti-semetic.
    Do we cut any slack on antisemitism for Palestinians?

    By which I mean, is anti-Jewish sentiment expressed by those at the sharp end of Israeli oppression as reprehensible as that expressed by people with no direct involvement?
    Anti-semitism no slack

    Justifiable opposition to Israeli government actions might be forgiveable
    That's big of you, Charles.
    I think there is a mismatch here between 'is it right' and 'is it understandable'?

    Let's take a deliberately ridiculous example: For no readily apparent reasons, Person A loathes all Belgians and encourages others to do the same. This is obviously wrong. Person B loathes Belgians, and encourages others to do the same. This is equally wrong. But it turns out Person B's brother was kicked to death by a mob of Belgians high on strong beer and cheese. Is Person B's loathing any less wrong? No. Is it more understandable? Yes.
    Even if you think it is more understandable, I'm not so sure it is, what we're actually being asked to understand is that Person B loathes all Jews because of what some other Jews are doing in another part of the world.
  • Leon said:

    "Lue Elizondo: Look, Bill, I'm not, I'm not telling you that, that it doesn't sound wacky. What I'm telling you, it's real. The question is, what is it? What are its intentions? What are its capabilities? 

    As an engineer I've always been naturally sceptical of stories like these, but it's getting harder and harder to maintain that stance. Bonkers as it sounds, clearly something that can be tracked visually, on radar, and by IR is physically present, not some kind of illusion.

    I'm glad the US is starting to take this seriously. They should pack an aircraft with every sensor known to man, optical, IR, gravimetric, et al, and fly it around in an area where these sightings are happening.





This discussion has been closed.