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With a week to go Scottish LAB and its leader edge up in latest Savanta ComRes poll – politicalbetti

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  • On the ground rumour from a tory mp in Hartlepool over the weekend and earlier this week. They think they've got it. Numbers reminiscent of Copeland byelection.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    What if the cafe makes it a condition of entry that you fill out a form or register?
    I would make a decision as to whether I wanted to take my custom elsewhere or whether the faff was not sufficient to put me off staying.
    If the former would you ensure that they are aware that their policy no longer has the force of law behind it and is driving customers to their competitors? Otherwise they won't know.
    Do you really think they won't know?

    This has been the single most dominant news story to affect our lives, probably of any of our lifetimes (unless there's anyone here old enough to remember WWII). All of the owners of these businesses will have been deeply impacted and struggling to keep afloat for a year now and paying damn close attention to what the rules are.

    The idea that the restrictions will be lifted and the business owners will just be blasé, not informed, or not implement the looser rules has to be one of the most puzzling suggestions anyone keeps making.

    You can bet you bottom pound that every serious pub landlord, cafe owner or anyone else will know pretty much exactly what is and is not allowed on 21 June.
    No - sorry - when I said they won't know I meant about losing some customers.

    Got to run. Mrs Stocky is demanding we go look at some carpet and stuff. I'll keep within £30,000.
    Any business worth its salt will be aware of what its customers want.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,309

    Best result for the Union would be

    1. Alba fails to gain any seats
    2. SNP fails to gain a majority.
    3. Labour outperforms Conservative
    4. SNP/Green fail to gain a majority

    (1) and (2) now look likely.
    There is insufficient evidence for (3).
    I can only dream of (4).

    BOLLOX as ever, you are almost a clone of HYFUD
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    edited April 2021
    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    It has been argued that Scotland should lose its banks anyway - they're unsustainable in the context of independence:

    From 2014:

    Financial services make up 12% of Scottish GDP and 15% of its exports, mostly to the UK. The assets of its financial services are 12.5 times GDP, which is more than Iceland prior to the 2008 crisis, and most of them are outside Scotland. While Scotland remains in the UK this is not a problem, since Scotland's financial sector is part of the UK's integrated financial system and supported by the Bank of England. But an independent Scotland could not possibly retain its financial sector. Regulators south of the border and in the EU would not allow giant financial services companies such as RBS and Standard Life to remain headquartered in such a small economy. The risks to global financial stability would be far too great.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2014/09/22/what-scotland-should-have-done-and-still-should-do/?sh=3d0426e92d97
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    What if the cafe makes it a condition of entry that you fill out a form or register?
    I would make a decision as to whether I wanted to take my custom elsewhere or whether the faff was not sufficient to put me off staying.
    If the former would you ensure that they are aware that their policy no longer has the force of law behind it and is driving customers to their competitors? Otherwise they won't know.
    Do you really think they won't know?

    This has been the single most dominant news story to affect our lives, probably of any of our lifetimes (unless there's anyone here old enough to remember WWII). All of the owners of these businesses will have been deeply impacted and struggling to keep afloat for a year now and paying damn close attention to what the rules are.

    The idea that the restrictions will be lifted and the business owners will just be blasé, not informed, or not implement the looser rules has to be one of the most puzzling suggestions anyone keeps making.

    You can bet you bottom pound that every serious pub landlord, cafe owner or anyone else will know pretty much exactly what is and is not allowed on 21 June.
    No - sorry - when I said they won't know I meant about losing some customers.

    Got to run. Mrs Stocky is demanding we go look at some carpet and stuff. I'll keep within £30,000.
    John Lewis?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1387692145339944961
    "Latest @BMGResearch preferred Prime Minister poll:

    Boris Johnson: 40% (+5)
    Keir Starmer: 24% (-4)

    What is Keir Starmer doing wrong?"


    But his wallpaper . . .

    There's a poll finding you won't see anywhere near the top of these pages!
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    Best result for the Union would be

    1. Alba fails to gain any seats
    2. SNP fails to gain a majority.
    3. Labour outperforms Conservative
    4. SNP/Green fail to gain a majority

    (1) and (2) now look likely.
    There is insufficient evidence for (3).
    I can only dream of (4).

    BOLLOX as ever, you are almost a clone of HYFUD
    Oh Sage of Ayrshire - what's your prediction?

  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    On the ground rumour from a tory mp in Hartlepool over the weekend and earlier this week. They think they've got it. Numbers reminiscent of Copeland byelection.

    Interesting but way too soon to be suggesting this - hubris alert!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    On the ground rumour from a tory mp in Hartlepool over the weekend and earlier this week. They think they've got it. Numbers reminiscent of Copeland byelection.

    Probably accurate, but a week is a long time in politics, particularly this week.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    I've justt seen the 1945 result for Caithness & Sutherland

    Unionist Eric Gandar Dower 5,564 votes 33.5%
    Labour Robert Ian Aonas MacInnes 5,558 votes 33.4%
    Liberal Archibald Sinclair 5,503 votes 33.1%

    61 votes separating first and third must be a record?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,309
    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Not many wise heads on here, full of numpties. Short term it would be no issue and any fool knows it will be own currency after that, as per every other country in the world. There would have to be a phased changeover of some sort and for sure Scotland will not be childish and will still accept English notes.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,541
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Any reason you shunned Devon?
    I had a nice lunch there! The same procedure - no registration, just sit down. Bizarrely miraculous feeling
    Yep.

    I was in Exmouth for the week after April 12.

    Nary a mask in sight.

    Was sheer joy to sit down and have someone bring me gin and tonic.

    In fact, in terms of mental well-being, it was the best holiday I have EVER had.
    Exactly the same for me. I was in a funk of gloom in London.

    That week just gone, of West Country sun and pub lunches, was intensely cheering. It should see me through to May 17...
    Living down here in Devon full time has some drawbacks.

    But in the great scheme of things, not many. Fifteen minutes and I'm at a beach with glorious views all the way getting to it. I'll have to go up for a meeting in London before too long. It's a day trip though. No need to miss a night away.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Not many wise heads on here, full of numpties. Short term it would be no issue and any fool knows it will be own currency after that, as per every other country in the world. There would have to be a phased changeover of some sort and for sure Scotland will not be childish and will still accept English notes.
    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Not many wise heads on here, full of numpties. Short term it would be no issue and any fool knows it will be own currency after that, as per every other country in the world. There would have to be a phased changeover of some sort and for sure Scotland will not be childish and will still accept English notes.
    I fear for your sanity when Sturgeon asks for a vote, Boris says no, and then... nothing happens. Will you march on Bute House?
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    On the ground rumour from a tory mp in Hartlepool over the weekend and earlier this week. They think they've got it. Numbers reminiscent of Copeland byelection.

    Probably accurate, but a week is a long time in politics, particularly this week.
    Lots of postals happening though - decent chance half the ballots have been cast.
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    Chameleon said:

    I've justt seen the 1945 result for Caithness & Sutherland

    Unionist Eric Gandar Dower 5,564 votes 33.5%
    Labour Robert Ian Aonas MacInnes 5,558 votes 33.4%
    Liberal Archibald Sinclair 5,503 votes 33.1%

    61 votes separating first and third must be a record?

    Must have been a lot of recounts for it take that long to come out?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,309
    felix said:

    The SNP have said they would want to be through the pandemic before another referendum would be held, and subsequent negotiations in the event of a win for the independence side would presumably take several years with Scotland still able to access the annual block grant.

    https://news.stv.tv/scotland/sir-tom-hunter-now-is-not-the-time-to-gamble-on-indyref2

    Why would rUK send a penny more than Scotland raises in taxes itself if it had voted to leave the UK?

    "We don't like you but can we still have your money?"

    Electoral suicide for a Westminster government.

    Souinds like they want their haggis and to eat it...........
    Sounds like you fantasising nutjob unionists have no clue on which way money transfers and wild speculation re you knowing what would happen on independence really make me laugh. I would not trust either of you to run a bath.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    malcolmg said:

    Best result for the Union would be

    1. Alba fails to gain any seats
    2. SNP fails to gain a majority.
    3. Labour outperforms Conservative
    4. SNP/Green fail to gain a majority

    (1) and (2) now look likely.
    There is insufficient evidence for (3).
    I can only dream of (4).

    BOLLOX as ever, you are almost a clone of HYFUD
    I predicted the Sex Pest Party would be a damp squib when you were hyping it up on here.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687
    The "eliminate" covid brigade* have been out and about in the Lancet today.

    SARS-CoV-2 elimination, not mitigation, creates best outcomes for health, the economy, and civil liberties
    https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)00978-8/fulltext

    "There is also increasing consensus that elimination is preferable to mitigation in relation to a country's economic performance."

    Is there? Really? Hmm.

    And as Rentoul points the paper contains the following line: John Rentoul

    “Our analysis does not prove a causal connection between varying pandemic response strategies and the different outcome measures”

    * possible a new pseudonym for zero covid strategy??
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,309
    Roger said:

    I wonder if Johnson's toxicity will show up later in Scotland because its got further to travel.

    Roger he has been hated here forever , no change needed or likely.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,541

    On the ground rumour from a tory mp in Hartlepool over the weekend and earlier this week. They think they've got it. Numbers reminiscent of Copeland byelection.

    Probably accurate, but a week is a long time in politics, particularly this week.
    A lot of postals in these times of Covid - and they are mostly in.
  • On the ground rumour from a tory mp in Hartlepool over the weekend and earlier this week. They think they've got it. Numbers reminiscent of Copeland byelection.

    Probably accurate, but a week is a long time in politics, particularly this week.
    I dont think it is. I think the last week will probably mean the least in any recent by election. The postal votes will be now mostly returned. PVs are the dedicated and most likely to vote of the electorate, and i'm assuming that PVs in this election are higher than ever before.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Not many wise heads on here, full of numpties. Short term it would be no issue and any fool knows it will be own currency after that, as per every other country in the world. There would have to be a phased changeover of some sort and for sure Scotland will not be childish and will still accept English notes.
    It’s no issue if you’re willing to radically reduce the size of Scotland’s deficit.

    I see no evidence you’re willing to accept any trade-offs of Independence; which basically puts you on a par with...Brexiters.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,309

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    It has been argued that Scotland should lose its banks anyway - they're unsustainable in the context of independence:

    From 2014:

    Financial services make up 12% of Scottish GDP and 15% of its exports, mostly to the UK. The assets of its financial services are 12.5 times GDP, which is more than Iceland prior to the 2008 crisis, and most of them are outside Scotland. While Scotland remains in the UK this is not a problem, since Scotland's financial sector is part of the UK's integrated financial system and supported by the Bank of England. But an independent Scotland could not possibly retain its financial sector. Regulators south of the border and in the EU would not allow giant financial services companies such as RBS and Standard Life to remain headquartered in such a small economy. The risks to global financial stability would be far too great.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/francescoppola/2014/09/22/what-scotland-should-have-done-and-still-should-do/?sh=3d0426e92d97
    They are already an English based English bank you numpty.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    Don’t think anyone’s mentioned the new report from Resolution.

    Essentially; the SNP have managed to piss up the wall all the additional expenditure they’ve put into Education.

    Scottish Educational performance continues to DECLINE.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Not many wise heads on here, full of numpties. Short term it would be no issue and any fool knows it will be own currency after that, as per every other country in the world. There would have to be a phased changeover of some sort and for sure Scotland will not be childish and will still accept English notes.
    It’s no issue if you’re willing to radically reduce the size of Scotland’s deficit.

    I see no evidence you’re willing to accept any trade-offs of Independence; which basically puts you on a par with...Brexiters.
    “Brexiters” - 283,000 Google hits

    “Brexiteers” - 837,000 Google hits

    The BrexitEERS won the lexical war, as well
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,576
    58% of French people support the retired generals who threatened a military coup and 49% think the army should intervene over the head of the government.

    https://www.lci.fr/societe/tribune-des-militaires-valeurs-actuelles-58-des-francais-soutiennent-l-initiative-des-signataires-2184708.html
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,309

    malcolmg said:

    Best result for the Union would be

    1. Alba fails to gain any seats
    2. SNP fails to gain a majority.
    3. Labour outperforms Conservative
    4. SNP/Green fail to gain a majority

    (1) and (2) now look likely.
    There is insufficient evidence for (3).
    I can only dream of (4).

    BOLLOX as ever, you are almost a clone of HYFUD
    Oh Sage of Ayrshire - what's your prediction?

    Majority for Independence, and ALBA will get seats.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Not many wise heads on here, full of numpties. Short term it would be no issue and any fool knows it will be own currency after that, as per every other country in the world. There would have to be a phased changeover of some sort and for sure Scotland will not be childish and will still accept English notes.
    It’s no issue if you’re willing to radically reduce the size of Scotland’s deficit.

    I see no evidence you’re willing to accept any trade-offs of Independence; which basically puts you on a par with...Brexiters.
    “Brexiters” - 283,000 Google hits

    “Brexiteers” - 837,000 Google hits

    The BrexitEERS won the lexical war, as well
    I favoured Brexitards, but I was warned off I think by the PB Mods.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096
    edited April 2021

    .

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    Nah, people have in their heads 21 June, they have had it for months. Its set now and any government that attempts to drag that out now would be committing Seppuku.

    People will keep calm and carry on until 21 June but then it is OVER. Some people will want to drag it out, but for the overwhelming majority of people the second its no longer required that will be it. No ifs, no buts, no messing around.

    Its worth remembering very few people were wearing masks until they were made compulsory. The second its no longer compulsory the overwhelming majority of people will stop doing it - and almost no business will demand it because they'd be stupid to do so.
    Odd to kick off with "Nah" and then agree with the post you're replying to. Is it because it's me?

    Yes, compulsory distancing is indeed over on 21 June and the government will indeed not be attempting to drag it out. As to how many people will still, despite the lack of compulsion, wish to continue with stuff like masks in crowded spaces and keeping 2m away from others whilst out and about, this remains to be seen. I'm happy with how I put it - such practices will continue to an extent.

    There, you've made me say everything twice. Well done.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,687
    "Any interventions in everyday life must be proportionate to that risk, not the images that have filled our TV screens for the last 12 months."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/04/28/pandemic-exit-strategy-should-rational-not-dictated-covid-anxiety/
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,309
    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Not many wise heads on here, full of numpties. Short term it would be no issue and any fool knows it will be own currency after that, as per every other country in the world. There would have to be a phased changeover of some sort and for sure Scotland will not be childish and will still accept English notes.
    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Not many wise heads on here, full of numpties. Short term it would be no issue and any fool knows it will be own currency after that, as per every other country in the world. There would have to be a phased changeover of some sort and for sure Scotland will not be childish and will still accept English notes.
    I fear for your sanity when Sturgeon asks for a vote, Boris says no, and then... nothing happens. Will you march on Bute House?
    Sturgeon is not interested in independence, she bumps her gums but is interested in herself. She will not last much longer, the chickens are coming home to roost.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,309

    malcolmg said:

    Best result for the Union would be

    1. Alba fails to gain any seats
    2. SNP fails to gain a majority.
    3. Labour outperforms Conservative
    4. SNP/Green fail to gain a majority

    (1) and (2) now look likely.
    There is insufficient evidence for (3).
    I can only dream of (4).

    BOLLOX as ever, you are almost a clone of HYFUD
    I predicted the Sex Pest Party would be a damp squib when you were hyping it up on here.
    You are a seer now as well as an obnoxious arse.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096
    edited April 2021
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Interesting - no registration, etc? Haven't seen that elsewhere.
    Yes, everywhere was like that - Cornwall, Devon, Dorset. They want the business and they have basically zero Covid, so you just sit down and ask for a beer. Or a seafood lunch. No problem

    Lyme Regis in particular was rammed. It was a lovely sunny day - but a workday. It felt like a particularly jubilant Bank Holiday

    Likewise, a friend of mine was out in Soho last night, he reports scenes of wild hedonism

    We could be heading into an epic summer
    I've had beers and coffees in a few places since April 12th and have not once had to give any personal details other than those on my debit card when I pay.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,361

    Don’t think anyone’s mentioned the new report from Resolution.

    Essentially; the SNP have managed to piss up the wall all the additional expenditure they’ve put into Education.

    Scottish Educational performance continues to DECLINE.

    It’s not a shock, if it wasn’t for Indy and Sturgeon being very capable as a leader, the SNP would be collapsing. Many of its MPs and MSPs are inept lightweights. Risen without a trace.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Not many wise heads on here, full of numpties. Short term it would be no issue and any fool knows it will be own currency after that, as per every other country in the world. There would have to be a phased changeover of some sort and for sure Scotland will not be childish and will still accept English notes.
    It’s no issue if you’re willing to radically reduce the size of Scotland’s deficit.

    I see no evidence you’re willing to accept any trade-offs of Independence; which basically puts you on a par with...Brexiters.
    “Brexiters” - 283,000 Google hits

    “Brexiteers” - 837,000 Google hits

    The BrexitEERS won the lexical war, as well
    I favoured Brexitards, but I was warned off I think by the PB Mods.
    Brexshitters was my favourite example of Remoaner lexicological madness. Used in newspapers by ‘serious’ journalists

    Brexiteers is the term that will survive. Because it sounds cooler, is easier to say, and has that poetic hint of ‘buccaneers’, ‘grenadiers’, ‘chandeliers’
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Interesting - no registration, etc? Haven't seen that elsewhere.
    Yes, everywhere was like that - Cornwall, Devon, Dorset. They want the business and they have basically zero Covid, so you just sit down and ask for a beer. Or a seafood lunch. No problem

    Lyme Regis in particular was rammed. It was a lovely sunny day - but a workday. It felt like a particularly jubilant Bank Holiday

    Likewise, a friend of mine was out in Soho last night, he reports scenes of wild hedonism

    We could be heading into an epic summer
    I've had beers and coffees in a few places since April 12th and have not once had to give any personal details other than those on my debit card when I pay.
    In north London? Beers? Every pub was booked, around me, when I last looked. It’s one reason I bugged out for Cornwall. Has the sitch changed?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Not many wise heads on here, full of numpties. Short term it would be no issue and any fool knows it will be own currency after that, as per every other country in the world. There would have to be a phased changeover of some sort and for sure Scotland will not be childish and will still accept English notes.
    It’s no issue if you’re willing to radically reduce the size of Scotland’s deficit.

    I see no evidence you’re willing to accept any trade-offs of Independence; which basically puts you on a par with...Brexiters.
    “Brexiters” - 283,000 Google hits

    “Brexiteers” - 837,000 Google hits

    The BrexitEERS won the lexical war, as well
    I favoured Brexitards, but I was warned off I think by the PB Mods.
    There was a range.

    Brexiter, Brexiteer, Brexitard

    Remainer, Remoaner, Remainiac
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,522
    kinabalu said:



    I've had beers and coffees in a few places since April 12th and have not once had to give any personal details other than those on my debit card when I pay.

    I've been to pub gardens twice - both times they asked for either the NHS App checking out against their barcode or name and contact details. Quite rigorous enforcement of movement in and out, too - someone on my table spotted a friend and went over to go and say hello, and was intercepted by one of the staff to say that free circulation around the pub garden broke the Government's rules. On the other hand, people only wore masks until they sat down and then took them off, and they were within less than 2m of each other.

    Conclusion from the above: pubs are understanding the rules differently, which isn't great. At current low levels of infection it probably won't have a significant impact, but could be a problem if rates rise.

  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,291
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Best result for the Union would be

    1. Alba fails to gain any seats
    2. SNP fails to gain a majority.
    3. Labour outperforms Conservative
    4. SNP/Green fail to gain a majority

    (1) and (2) now look likely.
    There is insufficient evidence for (3).
    I can only dream of (4).

    BOLLOX as ever, you are almost a clone of HYFUD
    I predicted the Sex Pest Party would be a damp squib when you were hyping it up on here.
    You are a seer now as well as an obnoxious arse.
    How is your therapy for psychological projection going? I guess it is proving as effective as Alex Salmond's diversity training.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Not many wise heads on here, full of numpties. Short term it would be no issue and any fool knows it will be own currency after that, as per every other country in the world. There would have to be a phased changeover of some sort and for sure Scotland will not be childish and will still accept English notes.
    It’s no issue if you’re willing to radically reduce the size of Scotland’s deficit.

    I see no evidence you’re willing to accept any trade-offs of Independence; which basically puts you on a par with...Brexiters.
    “Brexiters” - 283,000 Google hits

    “Brexiteers” - 837,000 Google hits

    The BrexitEERS won the lexical war, as well
    I favoured Brexitards, but I was warned off I think by the PB Mods.
    There was a range.

    Brexiter, Brexiteer, Brexitard

    Remainer, Remoaner, Remainiac
    Not quite, because “Brexiteer” is approbatory, whereas “Remoaner” is pejorative.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096

    On the ground rumour from a tory mp in Hartlepool over the weekend and earlier this week. They think they've got it. Numbers reminiscent of Copeland byelection.

    Yep. As I occasionally keep saying, a Labour hold would be the big surprise.

    #newpolitics-newpunditry
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,046

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Not many wise heads on here, full of numpties. Short term it would be no issue and any fool knows it will be own currency after that, as per every other country in the world. There would have to be a phased changeover of some sort and for sure Scotland will not be childish and will still accept English notes.
    It’s no issue if you’re willing to radically reduce the size of Scotland’s deficit.

    I see no evidence you’re willing to accept any trade-offs of Independence; which basically puts you on a par with...Brexiters.
    “Brexiters” - 283,000 Google hits

    “Brexiteers” - 837,000 Google hits

    The BrexitEERS won the lexical war, as well
    I favoured Brexitards, but I was warned off I think by the PB Mods.
    There was a range.

    Brexiter, Brexiteer, Brexitard

    Remainer, Remoaner, Remainiac
    Not quite, because “Brexiteer” is approbatory
    Depends on the user.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Leon said:

    Brexiteers is the term that will survive.

    And one day, nobody will admit to having been one...
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Brexiteers is the term that will survive.

    And one day, nobody will admit to having been one...
    Of course, because they'll all be dead. Along with all the remain voters.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    .

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    Nah, people have in their heads 21 June, they have had it for months. Its set now and any government that attempts to drag that out now would be committing Seppuku.

    People will keep calm and carry on until 21 June but then it is OVER. Some people will want to drag it out, but for the overwhelming majority of people the second its no longer required that will be it. No ifs, no buts, no messing around.

    Its worth remembering very few people were wearing masks until they were made compulsory. The second its no longer compulsory the overwhelming majority of people will stop doing it - and almost no business will demand it because they'd be stupid to do so.
    I agree with this analysis. Is there anyone who doesn't dislike masks? Most people I speak to consider them a necessary evil but are very keen to get rid of them. Interestingly, I was at the pub on Saturday and nobody was wearing masks bar the waiting staff, who presumably have to do so. I suspect this was the case in most places.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Interesting - no registration, etc? Haven't seen that elsewhere.
    Yes, everywhere was like that - Cornwall, Devon, Dorset. They want the business and they have basically zero Covid, so you just sit down and ask for a beer. Or a seafood lunch. No problem

    Lyme Regis in particular was rammed. It was a lovely sunny day - but a workday. It felt like a particularly jubilant Bank Holiday

    Likewise, a friend of mine was out in Soho last night, he reports scenes of wild hedonism

    We could be heading into an epic summer
    I've had beers and coffees in a few places since April 12th and have not once had to give any personal details other than those on my debit card when I pay.
    In north London? Beers? Every pub was booked, around me, when I last looked. It’s one reason I bugged out for Cornwall. Has the sitch changed?
    Mainly coffees/cafes tbf and the pub was out of the way and quiet.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096

    kinabalu said:



    I've had beers and coffees in a few places since April 12th and have not once had to give any personal details other than those on my debit card when I pay.

    I've been to pub gardens twice - both times they asked for either the NHS App checking out against their barcode or name and contact details. Quite rigorous enforcement of movement in and out, too - someone on my table spotted a friend and went over to go and say hello, and was intercepted by one of the staff to say that free circulation around the pub garden broke the Government's rules. On the other hand, people only wore masks until they sat down and then took them off, and they were within less than 2m of each other.

    Conclusion from the above: pubs are understanding the rules differently, which isn't great. At current low levels of infection it probably won't have a significant impact, but could be a problem if rates rise.
    I guess the location, time of day, busyness, and staff attitude play a part in how rigorous things are.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,522
    felix said:

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1387692145339944961
    "Latest @BMGResearch preferred Prime Minister poll:

    Boris Johnson: 40% (+5)
    Keir Starmer: 24% (-4)

    What is Keir Starmer doing wrong?"


    But his wallpaper . . .

    There's a poll finding you won't see anywhere near the top of these pages!
    More recent BMG shows a 4-point Tory lead (up 2), while the latest Savanta shows it as 7 points (down 2). Both well below the stratospheric 11-13 leads from other pollsters of a week or two back, and taken before yesterday's firestorm. Tories clearly still ahead, but...
  • AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,005
    For those it is of interest to I believe that the NHS vaccine booking system has been updated to allow at least 41+, possibly 40+.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    edited April 2021
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Brexiteers is the term that will survive.

    And one day, nobody will admit to having been one...
    This is already the case for the under 50s and in London.

    We shall overcome eventually, as our cause is the righteous one.

    Although I doubt we will rejoin.
    More likely, we will return to the single market.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,291

    kle4 said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Not many wise heads on here, full of numpties. Short term it would be no issue and any fool knows it will be own currency after that, as per every other country in the world. There would have to be a phased changeover of some sort and for sure Scotland will not be childish and will still accept English notes.
    It’s no issue if you’re willing to radically reduce the size of Scotland’s deficit.

    I see no evidence you’re willing to accept any trade-offs of Independence; which basically puts you on a par with...Brexiters.
    “Brexiters” - 283,000 Google hits

    “Brexiteers” - 837,000 Google hits

    The BrexitEERS won the lexical war, as well
    I favoured Brexitards, but I was warned off I think by the PB Mods.
    There was a range.

    Brexiter, Brexiteer, Brexitard

    Remainer, Remoaner, Remainiac
    Not quite, because “Brexiteer” is approbatory, whereas “Remoaner” is pejorative.
    I am not sure it is approbatory, as it is similar to cavalier, and someone who is being cavalier (particularly with the truth - yes I am thinking of the PM in particular) is not really a compliment. Brexiters in my experience (particularly on here) are a humourless bunch with a religious fervour for a belief set that is far from rational. They are more like roundhead puritans. Hair shirts all round for the high priests of the irrational religion of Brexit!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Interesting - no registration, etc? Haven't seen that elsewhere.
    In most places near me they just put the QR code on a laminate on the table, and you scan it, but it's not enforced.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    kinabalu said:



    I've had beers and coffees in a few places since April 12th and have not once had to give any personal details other than those on my debit card when I pay.

    I've been to pub gardens twice - both times they asked for either the NHS App checking out against their barcode or name and contact details. Quite rigorous enforcement of movement in and out, too - someone on my table spotted a friend and went over to go and say hello, and was intercepted by one of the staff to say that free circulation around the pub garden broke the Government's rules. On the other hand, people only wore masks until they sat down and then took them off, and they were within less than 2m of each other.

    Conclusion from the above: pubs are understanding the rules differently, which isn't great. At current low levels of infection it probably won't have a significant impact, but could be a problem if rates rise.

    Island places seem to be running with the rules tightly now, after the December surge in cases, very much as you describe, with checking in and no moving about.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    Nah, people have in their heads 21 June, they have had it for months. Its set now and any government that attempts to drag that out now would be committing Seppuku.

    People will keep calm and carry on until 21 June but then it is OVER. Some people will want to drag it out, but for the overwhelming majority of people the second its no longer required that will be it. No ifs, no buts, no messing around.

    Its worth remembering very few people were wearing masks until they were made compulsory. The second its no longer compulsory the overwhelming majority of people will stop doing it - and almost no business will demand it because they'd be stupid to do so.
    Odd to kick off with "Nah" and then agree with the post you're replying to. Is it because it's me?

    Yes, compulsory distancing is indeed over on 21 June and the government will indeed not be attempting to drag it out. As to how many people will still, despite the lack of compulsion, wish to continue with stuff like masks in crowded spaces and keeping 2m away from others whilst out and about, this remains to be seen. I'm happy with how I put it - such practices will continue to an extent.

    There, you've made me say everything twice. Well done.
    I said "Nah" in response to "bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while."

    Its not bound to continue, people will rapidly put it behind us. People will keep calm and carry on until 21 June (begrudgingly in my case) but after that it is over.

    Some weirdos may continue to wear a mask, but next-to-zero businesses will demand one and next-to-zero businesses will voluntarily require social distancing if its not legally required.

    Such practices will die a death. Rapidly. Deservedly.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,948
    edited April 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Interesting - no registration, etc? Haven't seen that elsewhere.
    Yes, everywhere was like that - Cornwall, Devon, Dorset. They want the business and they have basically zero Covid, so you just sit down and ask for a beer. Or a seafood lunch. No problem

    Lyme Regis in particular was rammed. It was a lovely sunny day - but a workday. It felt like a particularly jubilant Bank Holiday

    Likewise, a friend of mine was out in Soho last night, he reports scenes of wild hedonism

    We could be heading into an epic summer
    I've had beers and coffees in a few places since April 12th and have not once had to give any personal details other than those on my debit card when I pay.
    Interesting I have a sample experience size of one. A cafe attached to a garden centre.

    Me: Hi can I have a coffee please, that table looks free.
    Waitress: Please go to the front desk to register and fill out the forms.
    Me: Oh, ok.

    Very happy if this is an isolated procedure.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    On the ground rumour from a tory mp in Hartlepool over the weekend and earlier this week. They think they've got it. Numbers reminiscent of Copeland byelection.

    Probably accurate, but a week is a long time in politics, particularly this week.
    I dont think it is. I think the last week will probably mean the least in any recent by election. The postal votes will be now mostly returned. PVs are the dedicated and most likely to vote of the electorate, and i'm assuming that PVs in this election are higher than ever before.

    On the ground rumour from a tory mp in Hartlepool over the weekend and earlier this week. They think they've got it. Numbers reminiscent of Copeland byelection.

    Probably accurate, but a week is a long time in politics, particularly this week.
    A lot of postals in these times of Covid - and they are mostly in.
    I would remain very surprised if there was a Labour hold in Hartlepool even without early postal vote returns. I believe it will be rather a comfortable Conservative win too, on a low turnout. My point was, pressure on Johnson and the Conservatives does seem to be fast moving. Nonetheless, I am not sure whoever wins Hartlepool tells us very much about GE2024.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    "I think this is getting a bit farcical... all [Boris Johnson] has to do is answer a very simple question which is - who paid, initially, for the redecoration of your flat?"

    Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer says the PM "could deal with this very quickly"

    https://bbc.in/330KPh8 https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1387742047138942981/video/1
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Not many wise heads on here, full of numpties. Short term it would be no issue and any fool knows it will be own currency after that, as per every other country in the world. There would have to be a phased changeover of some sort and for sure Scotland will not be childish and will still accept English notes.
    It’s no issue if you’re willing to radically reduce the size of Scotland’s deficit.

    I see no evidence you’re willing to accept any trade-offs of Independence; which basically puts you on a par with...Brexiters.
    So on a par with ... perfectly rational people who were able to get what they voted for and despite the catastrophic shriekings of Project Fear the world didn't end (any more than it would have otherwise) when they got what they wanted?

    Yes I suppose Scottish Independence supporters are like that. Good luck to them too then, hope it goes as well for them as Brexit has for us. 👍
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,767
    kinabalu said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    Nah, people have in their heads 21 June, they have had it for months. Its set now and any government that attempts to drag that out now would be committing Seppuku.

    People will keep calm and carry on until 21 June but then it is OVER. Some people will want to drag it out, but for the overwhelming majority of people the second its no longer required that will be it. No ifs, no buts, no messing around.

    Its worth remembering very few people were wearing masks until they were made compulsory. The second its no longer compulsory the overwhelming majority of people will stop doing it - and almost no business will demand it because they'd be stupid to do so.
    Odd to kick off with "Nah" and then agree with the post you're replying to. Is it because it's me?

    Yes, compulsory distancing is indeed over on 21 June and the government will indeed not be attempting to drag it out. As to how many people will still, despite the lack of compulsion, wish to continue with stuff like masks in crowded spaces and keeping 2m away from others whilst out and about, this remains to be seen. I'm happy with how I put it - such practices will continue to an extent.

    There, you've made me say everything twice. Well done.
    Some people are clearly very fond of their masks. They are very definitely in a minority but not a tiny one -you will see about one in twenty people on our local high street with them on their faces. Very broadly, they tend to fall into three categories: the very scared (mostly old people who MUST have been double jabbed by now - if they're not demasking now, when will they ever?); the self-righteous-looking virtue signaller (most of the time, surely, I'm projecting here - but some people just look smug and angry when wearing a mask); and the forgetful (how can people forget they still have the horrid things on their faces? Some just do. My mother in law for one).
    If they must carry on, fair enough, as long as the rest of us don't have to.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,124

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Interesting - no registration, etc? Haven't seen that elsewhere.
    In most places near me they just put the QR code on a laminate on the table, and you scan it, but it's not enforced.
    Ditto.

    The idea of tracking and tracing for sitting outside is madness. Most cafes and bars I've been to are giving the rules a nod, but following the common sense/science.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Not many wise heads on here, full of numpties. Short term it would be no issue and any fool knows it will be own currency after that, as per every other country in the world. There would have to be a phased changeover of some sort and for sure Scotland will not be childish and will still accept English notes.
    It’s no issue if you’re willing to radically reduce the size of Scotland’s deficit.

    I see no evidence you’re willing to accept any trade-offs of Independence; which basically puts you on a par with...Brexiters.
    “Brexiters” - 283,000 Google hits

    “Brexiteers” - 837,000 Google hits

    The BrexitEERS won the lexical war, as well
    I favoured Brexitards, but I was warned off I think by the PB Mods.
    Brexshitters was my favourite example of Remoaner lexicological madness. Used in newspapers by ‘serious’ journalists

    Brexiteers is the term that will survive. Because it sounds cooler, is easier to say, and has that poetic hint of ‘buccaneers’, ‘grenadiers’, ‘chandeliers’
    What about Brxtrs?
    That is the term for those living in Abrdn
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818

    58% of French people support the retired generals who threatened a military coup and 49% think the army should intervene over the head of the government.

    https://www.lci.fr/societe/tribune-des-militaires-valeurs-actuelles-58-des-francais-soutiennent-l-initiative-des-signataires-2184708.html


    Is this the real reason all those boats are reported to be trying to cross the channel?

    The atmosphere in France is very hostile to recent arrivals and immigrants in general?

    But this is going unreported because it does not suit the agenda of some for it to be known there is a racist monster at the heart of the European Project?

  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Scott_xP said:

    "I think this is getting a bit farcical... all [Boris Johnson] has to do is answer a very simple question which is - who paid, initially, for the redecoration of your flat?"

    Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer says the PM "could deal with this very quickly"

    https://bbc.in/330KPh8 https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1387742047138942981/video/1

    Sounds like Starmer is realising that voters don;t give a f8ck about this issue and wants himself to move on...
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    FPT:

    This latest Scottish poll, if held under NZ’s PR system would deliver:

    SNP 50
    Con 31
    Lab 27
    Grn 14
    LDm 7

    SNP/Grn 1 seat shy of a majority.

    Possible govt combinations:

    SNP/Lab
    SNP/Grn/LDm

    I’m curious, but what is the relevance of putting the Scottish polls through the NZ system? It’s like me saying that under the Egyptian Ptolemaic regime Salmond and and Sturgeon should get married and be Co-rulers,

  • BluestBlueBluestBlue Posts: 4,556
    edited April 2021

    On the ground rumour from a tory mp in Hartlepool over the weekend and earlier this week. They think they've got it. Numbers reminiscent of Copeland byelection.

    Probably accurate, but a week is a long time in politics, particularly this week.
    I dont think it is. I think the last week will probably mean the least in any recent by election. The postal votes will be now mostly returned. PVs are the dedicated and most likely to vote of the electorate, and i'm assuming that PVs in this election are higher than ever before.

    On the ground rumour from a tory mp in Hartlepool over the weekend and earlier this week. They think they've got it. Numbers reminiscent of Copeland byelection.

    Probably accurate, but a week is a long time in politics, particularly this week.
    A lot of postals in these times of Covid - and they are mostly in.
    I would remain very surprised if there was a Labour hold in Hartlepool even without early postal vote returns. I believe it will be rather a comfortable Conservative win too, on a low turnout. My point was, pressure on Johnson and the Conservatives does seem to be fast moving. Nonetheless, I am not sure whoever wins Hartlepool tells us very much about GE2024.
    You'd better hope Labour hold Hartlepool, because if they don't, the abject humiliation of the Opposition losing seats in midterm to a Boris Johnson under full assault by the media will kill Wallpapergate stone dead.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Brexiteers is the term that will survive.

    And one day, nobody will admit to having been one...
    Indeed. In 80+ years when they are all dead.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    kinabalu said:



    I've had beers and coffees in a few places since April 12th and have not once had to give any personal details other than those on my debit card when I pay.

    I've been to pub gardens twice - both times they asked for either the NHS App checking out against their barcode or name and contact details. Quite rigorous enforcement of movement in and out, too - someone on my table spotted a friend and went over to go and say hello, and was intercepted by one of the staff to say that free circulation around the pub garden broke the Government's rules. On the other hand, people only wore masks until they sat down and then took them off, and they were within less than 2m of each other.

    Conclusion from the above: pubs are understanding the rules differently, which isn't great. At current low levels of infection it probably won't have a significant impact, but could be a problem if rates rise.

    A little known / understood fact is that the easement on 17 May removes the Rule of Six completely outdoors (it becomes the Rule of Thirty or something equally large as to be meaningless IIRC) – so you are only talking about this mattering for a fortnight when in fact rates, as you say, are exceedingly low. Do you expect them to rise sharply in the next two weeks?
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    58% of French people support the retired generals who threatened a military coup and 49% think the army should intervene over the head of the government.

    https://www.lci.fr/societe/tribune-des-militaires-valeurs-actuelles-58-des-francais-soutiennent-l-initiative-des-signataires-2184708.html


    Is this the real reason all those boats are reported to be trying to cross the channel?

    The atmosphere in France is very hostile to recent arrivals and immigrants in general?

    But this is going unreported because it does not suit the agenda of some for it to be known there is a racist monster at the heart of the European Project?

    I had a very vivid and realistic dream last night that the French military will use this year's Bastille Day celebrations, when the troops would be out and about anyway, as cover for launching a coup. If it does happen, I won’t be letting you all know the next set of lottery numbers!
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,096
    edited April 2021

    kinabalu said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    Nah, people have in their heads 21 June, they have had it for months. Its set now and any government that attempts to drag that out now would be committing Seppuku.

    People will keep calm and carry on until 21 June but then it is OVER. Some people will want to drag it out, but for the overwhelming majority of people the second its no longer required that will be it. No ifs, no buts, no messing around.

    Its worth remembering very few people were wearing masks until they were made compulsory. The second its no longer compulsory the overwhelming majority of people will stop doing it - and almost no business will demand it because they'd be stupid to do so.
    Odd to kick off with "Nah" and then agree with the post you're replying to. Is it because it's me?

    Yes, compulsory distancing is indeed over on 21 June and the government will indeed not be attempting to drag it out. As to how many people will still, despite the lack of compulsion, wish to continue with stuff like masks in crowded spaces and keeping 2m away from others whilst out and about, this remains to be seen. I'm happy with how I put it - such practices will continue to an extent.

    There, you've made me say everything twice. Well done.
    I said "Nah" in response to "bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while."

    Its not bound to continue, people will rapidly put it behind us. People will keep calm and carry on until 21 June (begrudgingly in my case) but after that it is over.

    Some weirdos may continue to wear a mask, but next-to-zero businesses will demand one and next-to-zero businesses will voluntarily require social distancing if its not legally required.

    Such practices will die a death. Rapidly. Deservedly.
    Of course some people will continue with certain aspects (eg masks in crowded spaces). Why on earth dispute something that's undeniably true?

    Nigelb, for example, has said he possibly will. Ditto Nick Palmer, I bet. Plus a few others on here. Also some people I know in flesh & blood have said they intend to. These folk are not "weirdos". Don't be so ridiculous. You're projecting your own attitude onto everyone else.

    I seem to bring out the worst out in you, Philip. You come out with an enormous amount of crap when talking to me. Your usual quotient is about 40% but it's at least double that when yours truly is your conversational partner. Ah well. I'm used to it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,948
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Interesting - no registration, etc? Haven't seen that elsewhere.
    Yes, everywhere was like that - Cornwall, Devon, Dorset. They want the business and they have basically zero Covid, so you just sit down and ask for a beer. Or a seafood lunch. No problem

    Lyme Regis in particular was rammed. It was a lovely sunny day - but a workday. It felt like a particularly jubilant Bank Holiday

    Likewise, a friend of mine was out in Soho last night, he reports scenes of wild hedonism

    We could be heading into an epic summer
    I've had beers and coffees in a few places since April 12th and have not once had to give any personal details other than those on my debit card when I pay.
    In north London? Beers? Every pub was booked, around me, when I last looked. It’s one reason I bugged out for Cornwall. Has the sitch changed?
    Mainly coffees/cafes tbf and the pub was out of the way and quiet.
    Which one was it? I'm not sure there is an out of the way and quiet pub in Hampstead?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    Err ... wait, what?

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1387688350342078467

    NEW: Preferred Prime Minister poll:

    Boris Johnson: 40% (+5)
    Keir Starmer: 24% (-4)
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited April 2021
    TimT said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Interesting - no registration, etc? Haven't seen that elsewhere.
    Yes, everywhere was like that - Cornwall, Devon, Dorset. They want the business and they have basically zero Covid, so you just sit down and ask for a beer. Or a seafood lunch. No problem

    Lyme Regis in particular was rammed. It was a lovely sunny day - but a workday. It felt like a particularly jubilant Bank Holiday

    Likewise, a friend of mine was out in Soho last night, he reports scenes of wild hedonism

    We could be heading into an epic summer
    I've had beers and coffees in a few places since April 12th and have not once had to give any personal details other than those on my debit card when I pay.
    Interesting I have a sample experience size of one. A cafe attached to a garden centre.

    Me: Hi can I have a coffee please, that table looks free.
    Waitress: Please go to the front desk to register and fill out the forms.
    Me: Oh, ok.

    Very happy if this is an isolated procedure.
    Brilliant example of misunderstanding infection control. Make everyone go to one central (potentially contaminated) point to use a potentially contaminated pen to fill out a form on a potentially contaminated clipboard. Rather than let everyone sit down without passing through a central point, and having the waitperson collect the data.
    I've been to a couple of pubs (once) that have had a central registration point with one pen. Needless to say that I'm not going back to either of them, but that may largely be because they tried to charge £6/pint in Oxfordshire.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    rpjs said:

    58% of French people support the retired generals who threatened a military coup and 49% think the army should intervene over the head of the government.

    https://www.lci.fr/societe/tribune-des-militaires-valeurs-actuelles-58-des-francais-soutiennent-l-initiative-des-signataires-2184708.html


    Is this the real reason all those boats are reported to be trying to cross the channel?

    The atmosphere in France is very hostile to recent arrivals and immigrants in general?

    But this is going unreported because it does not suit the agenda of some for it to be known there is a racist monster at the heart of the European Project?

    I had a very vivid and realistic dream last night that the French military will use this year's Bastille Day celebrations, when the troops would be out and about anyway, as cover for launching a coup. If it does happen, I won’t be letting you all know the next set of lottery numbers!
    I almost want it to happen to witness Andrew Adonis's twitter reaction.

    'No, no, the leaders of the European Project may be collapsing into a reactionary and extremely unpleasant nationalism but we should still rejoin, because.,....''
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207

    58% of French people support the retired generals who threatened a military coup and 49% think the army should intervene over the head of the government.

    https://www.lci.fr/societe/tribune-des-militaires-valeurs-actuelles-58-des-francais-soutiennent-l-initiative-des-signataires-2184708.html


    Is this the real reason all those boats are reported to be trying to cross the channel?

    The atmosphere in France is very hostile to recent arrivals and immigrants in general?

    But this is going unreported because it does not suit the agenda of some for it to be known there is a racist monster at the heart of the European Project?

    France has a huge problem with Islamists - that level of support in the poll surprises me though
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Interesting - no registration, etc? Haven't seen that elsewhere.
    Yes, everywhere was like that - Cornwall, Devon, Dorset. They want the business and they have basically zero Covid, so you just sit down and ask for a beer. Or a seafood lunch. No problem

    Lyme Regis in particular was rammed. It was a lovely sunny day - but a workday. It felt like a particularly jubilant Bank Holiday

    Likewise, a friend of mine was out in Soho last night, he reports scenes of wild hedonism

    We could be heading into an epic summer
    I've had beers and coffees in a few places since April 12th and have not once had to give any personal details other than those on my debit card when I pay.
    Interesting I have a sample experience size of one. A cafe attached to a garden centre.

    Me: Hi can I have a coffee please, that table looks free.
    Waitress: Please go to the front desk to register and fill out the forms.
    Me: Oh, ok.

    Very happy if this is an isolated procedure.
    Mad. Also self defeating in business terms. Everyone hates this faff, everyone will gravitate to the places that dispense with it. All the rocking pubs in Lyme Regis had abandoned it. Why would I go to one that makes me do this crap?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362

    On the ground rumour from a tory mp in Hartlepool over the weekend and earlier this week. They think they've got it. Numbers reminiscent of Copeland byelection.

    Probably accurate, but a week is a long time in politics, particularly this week.
    I dont think it is. I think the last week will probably mean the least in any recent by election. The postal votes will be now mostly returned. PVs are the dedicated and most likely to vote of the electorate, and i'm assuming that PVs in this election are higher than ever before.

    On the ground rumour from a tory mp in Hartlepool over the weekend and earlier this week. They think they've got it. Numbers reminiscent of Copeland byelection.

    Probably accurate, but a week is a long time in politics, particularly this week.
    A lot of postals in these times of Covid - and they are mostly in.
    I would remain very surprised if there was a Labour hold in Hartlepool even without early postal vote returns. I believe it will be rather a comfortable Conservative win too, on a low turnout. My point was, pressure on Johnson and the Conservatives does seem to be fast moving. Nonetheless, I am not sure whoever wins Hartlepool tells us very much about GE2024.
    It would tell us that Labour have a big problem in places where they won in 2019 due to Farage taking votes that may have otherwise voted Tory.

    And that Labour are both very lucky not to have far fewer seats and have a serious problem if they wish to stand still let alone start to claw things back.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    Nah, people have in their heads 21 June, they have had it for months. Its set now and any government that attempts to drag that out now would be committing Seppuku.

    People will keep calm and carry on until 21 June but then it is OVER. Some people will want to drag it out, but for the overwhelming majority of people the second its no longer required that will be it. No ifs, no buts, no messing around.

    Its worth remembering very few people were wearing masks until they were made compulsory. The second its no longer compulsory the overwhelming majority of people will stop doing it - and almost no business will demand it because they'd be stupid to do so.
    Odd to kick off with "Nah" and then agree with the post you're replying to. Is it because it's me?

    Yes, compulsory distancing is indeed over on 21 June and the government will indeed not be attempting to drag it out. As to how many people will still, despite the lack of compulsion, wish to continue with stuff like masks in crowded spaces and keeping 2m away from others whilst out and about, this remains to be seen. I'm happy with how I put it - such practices will continue to an extent.

    There, you've made me say everything twice. Well done.
    Some people are clearly very fond of their masks. They are very definitely in a minority but not a tiny one -you will see about one in twenty people on our local high street with them on their faces. Very broadly, they tend to fall into three categories: the very scared (mostly old people who MUST have been double jabbed by now - if they're not demasking now, when will they ever?); the self-righteous-looking virtue signaller (most of the time, surely, I'm projecting here - but some people just look smug and angry when wearing a mask); and the forgetful (how can people forget they still have the horrid things on their faces? Some just do. My mother in law for one).
    If they must carry on, fair enough, as long as the rest of us don't have to.
    I must admit to forgetting once or twice, albeit it briefly, but I am a very absent-minded person. I hope against hope that I wasn't mistaken for Groups 1 or 2!!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,112

    58% of French people support the retired generals who threatened a military coup and 49% think the army should intervene over the head of the government.

    https://www.lci.fr/societe/tribune-des-militaires-valeurs-actuelles-58-des-francais-soutiennent-l-initiative-des-signataires-2184708.html

    Roll on the Seventh Republic.

    Eight if you included the much lamented (on PB earlier) Vichy.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Floater said:

    Err ... wait, what?

    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1387688350342078467

    NEW: Preferred Prime Minister poll:

    Boris Johnson: 40% (+5)
    Keir Starmer: 24% (-4)

    Starmer's wall paper play is a f8cking disaster, he's starting to realise it, hence his comments about the PM being able to solve this quickly.

    How many more times. The commentariat is not Britain. Far, Far from it.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,112
    edited April 2021
    ..
  • rpjsrpjs Posts: 3,787

    kinabalu said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    Nah, people have in their heads 21 June, they have had it for months. Its set now and any government that attempts to drag that out now would be committing Seppuku.

    People will keep calm and carry on until 21 June but then it is OVER. Some people will want to drag it out, but for the overwhelming majority of people the second its no longer required that will be it. No ifs, no buts, no messing around.

    Its worth remembering very few people were wearing masks until they were made compulsory. The second its no longer compulsory the overwhelming majority of people will stop doing it - and almost no business will demand it because they'd be stupid to do so.
    Odd to kick off with "Nah" and then agree with the post you're replying to. Is it because it's me?

    Yes, compulsory distancing is indeed over on 21 June and the government will indeed not be attempting to drag it out. As to how many people will still, despite the lack of compulsion, wish to continue with stuff like masks in crowded spaces and keeping 2m away from others whilst out and about, this remains to be seen. I'm happy with how I put it - such practices will continue to an extent.

    There, you've made me say everything twice. Well done.
    I said "Nah" in response to "bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while."

    Its not bound to continue, people will rapidly put it behind us. People will keep calm and carry on until 21 June (begrudgingly in my case) but after that it is over.

    Some weirdos may continue to wear a mask, but next-to-zero businesses will demand one and next-to-zero businesses will voluntarily require social distancing if its not legally required.

    Such practices will die a death. Rapidly. Deservedly.
    I suspect you will be disappointed. Here in the US the CDC has now dropped the mask mandate outdoors for those fully vaccinated except in “crowded” conditions and NY state has endorses that. Yet walking around the very much not crowded streets of Tarrytown yesterday lunchtime, either no-one else got the memo, or nobody at all has been fully vaccinated yet (in fact 1/3 of the state has been) as mask-wearing was as prevalent as before.

    As I’ve said before, even after the pandemic is over, I plan to carry a mask with me when travelling on public transport, especially in the winter, and will don it if I’m feeling sniffly or I observe such symptoms in others, as in common practice in East Asia. It’s been wonderful not having had a single cold this last eighteen months.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Interesting - no registration, etc? Haven't seen that elsewhere.
    Yes, everywhere was like that - Cornwall, Devon, Dorset. They want the business and they have basically zero Covid, so you just sit down and ask for a beer. Or a seafood lunch. No problem

    Lyme Regis in particular was rammed. It was a lovely sunny day - but a workday. It felt like a particularly jubilant Bank Holiday

    Likewise, a friend of mine was out in Soho last night, he reports scenes of wild hedonism

    We could be heading into an epic summer
    As Europe sticks its nose to the glass, looking in wistfully at partying Brits.

    That's what you get for trying to fight Covid on the cheap, Europe.

    Harsh but true.

    But let’s not gloat about it, just celebrate that the U.K. has done a great job of squashing the pandemic - in the cafes, pubs and bars! It’s every Briton’s patriotic duty to spend the summer in the pub every night!
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    Nah, people have in their heads 21 June, they have had it for months. Its set now and any government that attempts to drag that out now would be committing Seppuku.

    People will keep calm and carry on until 21 June but then it is OVER. Some people will want to drag it out, but for the overwhelming majority of people the second its no longer required that will be it. No ifs, no buts, no messing around.

    Its worth remembering very few people were wearing masks until they were made compulsory. The second its no longer compulsory the overwhelming majority of people will stop doing it - and almost no business will demand it because they'd be stupid to do so.
    Odd to kick off with "Nah" and then agree with the post you're replying to. Is it because it's me?

    Yes, compulsory distancing is indeed over on 21 June and the government will indeed not be attempting to drag it out. As to how many people will still, despite the lack of compulsion, wish to continue with stuff like masks in crowded spaces and keeping 2m away from others whilst out and about, this remains to be seen. I'm happy with how I put it - such practices will continue to an extent.

    There, you've made me say everything twice. Well done.
    Some people are clearly very fond of their masks. They are very definitely in a minority but not a tiny one -you will see about one in twenty people on our local high street with them on their faces. Very broadly, they tend to fall into three categories: the very scared (mostly old people who MUST have been double jabbed by now - if they're not demasking now, when will they ever?); the self-righteous-looking virtue signaller (most of the time, surely, I'm projecting here - but some people just look smug and angry when wearing a mask); and the forgetful (how can people forget they still have the horrid things on their faces? Some just do. My mother in law for one).
    If they must carry on, fair enough, as long as the rest of us don't have to.
    I must admit to forgetting once or twice, albeit it briefly, but I am a very absent-minded person. I hope against hope that I wasn't mistaken for Groups 1 or 2!!
    I usually end up wearing my mask on the way back from the corner shop to home, usually because my hands are full.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    rpjs said:

    58% of French people support the retired generals who threatened a military coup and 49% think the army should intervene over the head of the government.

    https://www.lci.fr/societe/tribune-des-militaires-valeurs-actuelles-58-des-francais-soutiennent-l-initiative-des-signataires-2184708.html


    Is this the real reason all those boats are reported to be trying to cross the channel?

    The atmosphere in France is very hostile to recent arrivals and immigrants in general?

    But this is going unreported because it does not suit the agenda of some for it to be known there is a racist monster at the heart of the European Project?

    I had a very vivid and realistic dream last night that the French military will use this year's Bastille Day celebrations, when the troops would be out and about anyway, as cover for launching a coup. If it does happen, I won’t be letting you all know the next set of lottery numbers!
    I almost want it to happen to witness Andrew Adonis's twitter reaction.

    'No, no, the leaders of the European Project may be collapsing into a reactionary and extremely unpleasant nationalism but we should still rejoin, because.,....''
    Also La Keating's charts, showing why this is good ... or at least better than the UK
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    Nah, people have in their heads 21 June, they have had it for months. Its set now and any government that attempts to drag that out now would be committing Seppuku.

    People will keep calm and carry on until 21 June but then it is OVER. Some people will want to drag it out, but for the overwhelming majority of people the second its no longer required that will be it. No ifs, no buts, no messing around.

    Its worth remembering very few people were wearing masks until they were made compulsory. The second its no longer compulsory the overwhelming majority of people will stop doing it - and almost no business will demand it because they'd be stupid to do so.
    Odd to kick off with "Nah" and then agree with the post you're replying to. Is it because it's me?

    Yes, compulsory distancing is indeed over on 21 June and the government will indeed not be attempting to drag it out. As to how many people will still, despite the lack of compulsion, wish to continue with stuff like masks in crowded spaces and keeping 2m away from others whilst out and about, this remains to be seen. I'm happy with how I put it - such practices will continue to an extent.

    There, you've made me say everything twice. Well done.
    I said "Nah" in response to "bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while."

    Its not bound to continue, people will rapidly put it behind us. People will keep calm and carry on until 21 June (begrudgingly in my case) but after that it is over.

    Some weirdos may continue to wear a mask, but next-to-zero businesses will demand one and next-to-zero businesses will voluntarily require social distancing if its not legally required.

    Such practices will die a death. Rapidly. Deservedly.
    Of course some people will continue with certain aspects (eg masks in crowded spaces). Why on earth dispute something that's undeniably true?

    Nigelb, for example, has said he possibly will. Ditto Nick Palmer, I bet. Plus a few others on here. Also some people I know in flesh & blood have said they intend to. These folk are not "weirdos". Don't be so ridiculous. You're projecting your own attitude onto everyone else.

    I seem to bring out the worst out in you, Philip. You come out with an enormous amount of crap when talking to me. Your usual quotient is about 40% but it's at least double that when yours truly is your conversational partner. Ah well. I'm used to it.
    Some people will and they will be the weird exceptions, just like in the past when you'd see eg Japanese shoppers in the Trafford centre wearing a mask. It just looks weird, but it always happened and you'll continue to get it with some weirdos going forwards. And I stand by the term, people voluntarily doing it when its not required or mandated will be very much the exception not the norm.

    But more important than whether a few weirdos do stuff that doesn't affect anyone else, is whether businesses demand it. I couldn't care less if individuals want to wear a mask when they're not required to, I couldn't care less about other people's fashion choices. But if businesses are still demanding it that's a different matter, that's where its continuing, and if its not required by law there'll be little incentive for businesses to mandate it.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    On the ground rumour from a tory mp in Hartlepool over the weekend and earlier this week. They think they've got it. Numbers reminiscent of Copeland byelection.

    Probably accurate, but a week is a long time in politics, particularly this week.
    I dont think it is. I think the last week will probably mean the least in any recent by election. The postal votes will be now mostly returned. PVs are the dedicated and most likely to vote of the electorate, and i'm assuming that PVs in this election are higher than ever before.

    On the ground rumour from a tory mp in Hartlepool over the weekend and earlier this week. They think they've got it. Numbers reminiscent of Copeland byelection.

    Probably accurate, but a week is a long time in politics, particularly this week.
    A lot of postals in these times of Covid - and they are mostly in.
    I would remain very surprised if there was a Labour hold in Hartlepool even without early postal vote returns. I believe it will be rather a comfortable Conservative win too, on a low turnout. My point was, pressure on Johnson and the Conservatives does seem to be fast moving. Nonetheless, I am not sure whoever wins Hartlepool tells us very much about GE2024.
    You'd better hope Labour hold Hartlepool, because if they don't, the abject humiliation of the Opposition losing seats in midterm to a Boris Johnson under full assault by the media will kill Wallpapergate stone dead.
    I have offered you a fair analysis of what I think will happen next week regarding Hartlepool and I have no doubt it will play badly for Labour. BJO will be demanding Starmer's head for starters, and pitching for a RLB/ Burgon leadership challenge.

    I need to get back to work, so I won't bore you any further, all I will say is, if Johnson's gold-lame wallpaper saga is still rumbling on to next Thursday, he will already be in some serious bother.
  • Chameleon said:

    TimT said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Interesting - no registration, etc? Haven't seen that elsewhere.
    Yes, everywhere was like that - Cornwall, Devon, Dorset. They want the business and they have basically zero Covid, so you just sit down and ask for a beer. Or a seafood lunch. No problem

    Lyme Regis in particular was rammed. It was a lovely sunny day - but a workday. It felt like a particularly jubilant Bank Holiday

    Likewise, a friend of mine was out in Soho last night, he reports scenes of wild hedonism

    We could be heading into an epic summer
    I've had beers and coffees in a few places since April 12th and have not once had to give any personal details other than those on my debit card when I pay.
    Interesting I have a sample experience size of one. A cafe attached to a garden centre.

    Me: Hi can I have a coffee please, that table looks free.
    Waitress: Please go to the front desk to register and fill out the forms.
    Me: Oh, ok.

    Very happy if this is an isolated procedure.
    Brilliant example of misunderstanding infection control. Make everyone go to one central (potentially contaminated) point to use a potentially contaminated pen to fill out a form on a potentially contaminated clipboard. Rather than let everyone sit down without passing through a central point, and having the waitperson collect the data.
    I've been to a couple of pubs (once) that have had a central registration point with one pen. Needless to say that I'm not going back to either of them, but that may largely be because they tried to charge £6/pint in Oxfordshire.
    My preferred watering hole has put John Smith’s up by 15p to £2 a pint. Bloody daylight robbery.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    rpjs said:

    kinabalu said:

    .

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    Nah, people have in their heads 21 June, they have had it for months. Its set now and any government that attempts to drag that out now would be committing Seppuku.

    People will keep calm and carry on until 21 June but then it is OVER. Some people will want to drag it out, but for the overwhelming majority of people the second its no longer required that will be it. No ifs, no buts, no messing around.

    Its worth remembering very few people were wearing masks until they were made compulsory. The second its no longer compulsory the overwhelming majority of people will stop doing it - and almost no business will demand it because they'd be stupid to do so.
    Odd to kick off with "Nah" and then agree with the post you're replying to. Is it because it's me?

    Yes, compulsory distancing is indeed over on 21 June and the government will indeed not be attempting to drag it out. As to how many people will still, despite the lack of compulsion, wish to continue with stuff like masks in crowded spaces and keeping 2m away from others whilst out and about, this remains to be seen. I'm happy with how I put it - such practices will continue to an extent.

    There, you've made me say everything twice. Well done.
    I said "Nah" in response to "bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while."

    Its not bound to continue, people will rapidly put it behind us. People will keep calm and carry on until 21 June (begrudgingly in my case) but after that it is over.

    Some weirdos may continue to wear a mask, but next-to-zero businesses will demand one and next-to-zero businesses will voluntarily require social distancing if its not legally required.

    Such practices will die a death. Rapidly. Deservedly.
    I suspect you will be disappointed. Here in the US the CDC has now dropped the mask mandate outdoors for those fully vaccinated except in “crowded” conditions and NY state has endorses that. Yet walking around the very much not crowded streets of Tarrytown yesterday lunchtime, either no-one else got the memo, or nobody at all has been fully vaccinated yet (in fact 1/3 of the state has been) as mask-wearing was as prevalent as before.

    As I’ve said before, even after the pandemic is over, I plan to carry a mask with me when travelling on public transport, especially in the winter, and will don it if I’m feeling sniffly or I observe such symptoms in others, as in common practice in East Asia. It’s been wonderful not having had a single cold this last eighteen months.
    The US is behind us in both vaccine rollout and eliminating the virus, but ahead of us in dropping masks. Given how politicised they were too, I'm unsurprised to see people continuing with them. Its almost become political as much as medical.

    That's not the same as the situation the UK will be in by June.

    People wearing a mask when they're sniffly on public transport is not a bad idea. But I'm referring to it being mandatory in businesses or transport or whereever - if its not mandated by law I can't imagine any businesses will by June be wanting to demand it voluntarily.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,112
    edited April 2021

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Brexiteers is the term that will survive.

    And one day, nobody will admit to having been one...
    This is already the case for the under 50s and in London.

    We shall overcome eventually, as our cause is the righteous one.

    Although I doubt we will rejoin.
    More likely, we will return to the single market.
    If we can keep our cake, and eat their's as well...

    Though personally I think there is a crisis of governance coming in the EU, about whether evolves to be able to run a gang of 27, or whether the existing establishment goes further down the rabbithole.

    Reform or Die. With options of Looser or Tighter on Reform.
  • contrariancontrarian Posts: 5,818
    Floater said:

    58% of French people support the retired generals who threatened a military coup and 49% think the army should intervene over the head of the government.

    https://www.lci.fr/societe/tribune-des-militaires-valeurs-actuelles-58-des-francais-soutiennent-l-initiative-des-signataires-2184708.html


    Is this the real reason all those boats are reported to be trying to cross the channel?

    The atmosphere in France is very hostile to recent arrivals and immigrants in general?

    But this is going unreported because it does not suit the agenda of some for it to be known there is a racist monster at the heart of the European Project?

    France has a huge problem with Islamists - that level of support in the poll surprises me though
    If that is true then the extent of the under-reporting of that problem is at Pravda levels.

    You read very little about it even in papers that relish a good dem muslamics story.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    58% of French people support the retired generals who threatened a military coup and 49% think the army should intervene over the head of the government.

    https://www.lci.fr/societe/tribune-des-militaires-valeurs-actuelles-58-des-francais-soutiennent-l-initiative-des-signataires-2184708.html

    Don't tell Roger - he thinks Hartlepool is only in the UK! :smiley:
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,767
    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Interesting - no registration, etc? Haven't seen that elsewhere.
    Yes, everywhere was like that - Cornwall, Devon, Dorset. They want the business and they have basically zero Covid, so you just sit down and ask for a beer. Or a seafood lunch. No problem

    Lyme Regis in particular was rammed. It was a lovely sunny day - but a workday. It felt like a particularly jubilant Bank Holiday

    Likewise, a friend of mine was out in Soho last night, he reports scenes of wild hedonism

    We could be heading into an epic summer
    As Europe sticks its nose to the glass, looking in wistfully at partying Brits.

    That's what you get for trying to fight Covid on the cheap, Europe.

    Harsh but true.

    But let’s not gloat about it, just celebrate that the U.K. has done a great job of squashing the pandemic - in the cafes, pubs and bars! It’s every Briton’s patriotic duty to spend the summer in the pub every night!
    I suspect Europe will have just as good a summer as us, because they will relax restrictions to a less ultra-cautious timetable than us, and will be largely fine.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Interesting - no registration, etc? Haven't seen that elsewhere.
    Although outside?
  • JPJ2JPJ2 Posts: 380
    Interesting to see how the EU member state Malta (described by the British press as totally incapable financially of being an independent state shortly before their independence), has the highest vaccination rate by at least one measure (see Carlota Vance table earlier).

    I find this ironic, as I think the pull back from Yes to No seems mainly due to the vaccination achievement of the UK, and the false claim that an independent Scotland could not have achieved this on its own.

    I ceased to worry about whether or not Scotland would become independent a while back, as the demographics are utterly crushing for unionism. The end of the Union can be delayed but not prevented.

    A couple of points rebutting nonsense comments on the election by some PBers:- Sturgeon is not going to lose her constituency seat to the privately educated millionaire Sarwar, and the SNP are not going to lose Moray, a seat that Ross was afraid to stand in at this election.

    It will be interesting to see if Labour can hold any of their 3 constituency seats currently held on tiny or small majorities, Dumbarton, East Lothian and Edinburgh Southern. The last named seems their best bet to me due to tactical voting for Labour by Tory supporters.

    Nearly forgot-Angus Robertson will gain Edinburgh Central from the Conservatives. Baroness Davidson has fled that scene having employed her usual tactic of dodging her constituents :-)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    malcolmg said:

    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Not many wise heads on here, full of numpties. Short term it would be no issue and any fool knows it will be own currency after that, as per every other country in the world. There would have to be a phased changeover of some sort and for sure Scotland will not be childish and will still accept English notes.
    It’s no issue if you’re willing to radically reduce the size of Scotland’s deficit.

    I see no evidence you’re willing to accept any trade-offs of Independence; which basically puts you on a par with...Brexiters.
    “Brexiters” - 283,000 Google hits

    “Brexiteers” - 837,000 Google hits

    The BrexitEERS won the lexical war, as well
    I favoured Brexitards, but I was warned off I think by the PB Mods.
    Brexshitters was my favourite example of Remoaner lexicological madness. Used in newspapers by ‘serious’ journalists

    Brexiteers is the term that will survive. Because it sounds cooler, is easier to say, and has that poetic hint of ‘buccaneers’, ‘grenadiers’, ‘chandeliers’
    You complain about Brexshitter, which I have never heard, yet use the term remoaner. Irony obviously not your thing?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,569
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    I admire, and am encouraged by, your optimism. But I find it hard to share. Why, if social distancing ends on the 21st June, are councils still recruting covid marshalls? Why are sage talking about mask wearing next winter? I hope whay you think will happen, will happen. But I have little faith in the state giving up power it has given itself.
    Well we'll see. I think you'll find the compulsion goes. Maybe bits & pieces kicking around but by and large we'll go back to something close to pre-pandemic. As to why the talk? - there's always talk and people can find what they want in it. Like, there was lots of talk about vaxports, wasn't there? I said we could safely ignore most of it, and so it is coming to pass. Bottom line, Cookie, I don't see the government throwing away the societal dividend from beating the pandemic. It's in nobody's interest and I most particularly do NOT buy this stuff about "the scientists won't give up centre stage easily" or "the politicians like these restrictions and will find excuses to prolong them". I just think all that is way off beam.. It makes no sense. No, you'll be rocking on 22 June, trust me.
    Keep on rockin’ in the free world!
    https://youtube.com/watch?v=fFw7q-BLxLA
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,926
    edited April 2021
    JPJ2 said:

    Interesting to see how the EU member state Malta (described by the British press as totally incapable financially of being an independent state shortly before their independence), has the highest vaccination rate by at least one measure (see Carlota Vance table earlier).

    I find this ironic, as I think the pull back from Yes to No seems mainly due to the vaccination achievement of the UK, and the false claim that an independent Scotland could not have achieved this on its own.

    I ceased to worry about whether or not Scotland would become independent a while back, as the demographics are utterly crushing for unionism. The end of the Union can be delayed but not prevented.

    A couple of points rebutting nonsense comments on the election by some PBers:- Sturgeon is not going to lose her constituency seat to the privately educated millionaire Sarwar, and the SNP are not going to lose Moray, a seat that Ross was afraid to stand in at this election.

    It will be interesting to see if Labour can hold any of their 3 constituency seats currently held on tiny or small majorities, Dumbarton, East Lothian and Edinburgh Southern. The last named seems their best bet to me due to tactical voting for Labour by Tory supporters.

    Nearly forgot-Angus Robertson will gain Edinburgh Central from the Conservatives. Baroness Davidson has fled that scene having employed her usual tactic of dodging her constituents :-)

    Do you really think that having just left the UK and joined the EU, that Scotland wouldn't have been a fully-signed up member of the EU vaccination scheme?
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Charles said:

    FPT:

    This latest Scottish poll, if held under NZ’s PR system would deliver:

    SNP 50
    Con 31
    Lab 27
    Grn 14
    LDm 7

    SNP/Grn 1 seat shy of a majority.

    Possible govt combinations:

    SNP/Lab
    SNP/Grn/LDm

    I’m curious, but what is the relevance of putting the Scottish polls through the NZ system? It’s like me saying that under the Egyptian Ptolemaic regime Salmond and and Sturgeon should get married and be Co-rulers,

    I thought the same - maybe he's from there?
This discussion has been closed.