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With a week to go Scottish LAB and its leader edge up in latest Savanta ComRes poll – politicalbetti

SystemSystem Posts: 12,158
edited April 2021 in General
With a week to go Scottish LAB and its leader edge up in latest Savanta ComRes poll – politicalbetting.com

Savanta ComRes Scotland poll good for new Scots Labour leader Net favourability: Sturgeon +16 (+1); Sarwar +9 (+3); Rennie -5 (+5); Ross -15 (-2); Starmer -13 (-9); Johnson -34 (-2).

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Comments

  • MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    1st
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    FPT:

    This latest Scottish poll, if held under NZ’s PR system would deliver:

    SNP 50
    Con 31
    Lab 27
    Grn 14
    LDm 7

    SNP/Grn 1 seat shy of a majority.

    Possible govt combinations:

    SNP/Lab
    SNP/Grn/LDm
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,804
    Hmm. Pro-Indy parties up two percentage points on the list. Will be interesting to see how that works out in seats, esp. with the Greens up a fair bit.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    Best result for the Union would be

    1. Alba fails to gain any seats
    2. SNP fails to gain a majority.
    3. Labour outperforms Conservative
    4. SNP/Green fail to gain a majority

    (1) and (2) now look likely.
    There is insufficient evidence for (3).
    I can only dream of (4).
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    I reckon that Alba's support is heavily unequal across the country, I'd be surprised if they don't get a seat in the NE, which would return Salmond.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093
    edited April 2021

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    That will be presented in different places as a supermajority for independence and no majority for independence.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    kinabalu said:

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    That will be presented in different places as a 'supermajority' for independence and 'no majority' for independence.
    If the SNP actually LOSE seats all talk of a momentum towards indy will dissolve (especially with these dire-for-YES Indy polls). Sturgeon will ‘demand’ one but in the most lacklustre way. Boris will bat it aside. Sturgeon will shrug - and then her angry militants will come for her

    What are the odds on a Sturgeon departure this year? Might be VALUE
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    Robert Peston is getting ripped a new one on Twitter for an astonishingly ignorant take on Northern Irish politics.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    edited April 2021

    Robert Peston is getting ripped a new one on Twitter for an astonishingly ignorant take on Northern Irish politics.

    nothing new there but it is easy to get caught out.

    I forgot that Sinn Fein can now make demands before accepting whoever the DUP appoint as the new first minister.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,874
    I wonder if Johnson's toxicity will show up later in Scotland because its got further to travel.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    edited April 2021

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    No, it’s impossible to extrapolate. This is so far from a ‘normal’ economic ‘recovery’, we’re in unmapped land.

    I can foresee all scenarios: a dystopia where the virus rampages around Asia all summer, busily mutating, then comes back to hit the west for a hideous third/fourth wave, and the global economy totters; or a near-utopia where India is cured, the vaccines roll out across the world, and the debt mountain disappears as the planet throws a party

    Or something in between - a dangerous, indebted new world that also has opportunities and optimism
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    More SNP + Green seats will be argued to show a greater demand for independence.

    Look last time Independence had X seats when we didn't talk about a referendum. Now Independence has X+Y seats on a manifesto that said we wanted a referendum tomorrow.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,157

    Robert Peston is getting ripped a new one on Twitter for an astonishingly ignorant take on Northern Irish politics.

    "drive large numbers of unaligned voters to Sinn Fein" LOL
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    kinabalu said:

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    That will be presented in different places as a supermajority for independence and no majority for independence.
    When even most Scottish Green voters now oppose independence on the latest poll, then if the SNP, or at minimum the SNP and Alba, fail to win a Holyrood majority then that kills indyref2 stone dead
    https://archive.ph/eg2lt
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    edited April 2021
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    That will be presented in different places as a supermajority for independence and no majority for independence.
    When even most Scottish Green voters now oppose independence on the latest poll, then if the SNP, or at minimum the SNP and Alba, fail to win a Holyrood majority then that kills indyref2 stone dead
    https://archive.ph/eg2lt
    The Scottish Green Party manifesto wants a referendum...

    All votes for the SNP / Green / Alba are votes for a referendum...

    You may not like it but if the manifesto contains a referendum and those parties end up with 51%+* of the seats it's going to be hard to argue that there isn't demand for one.


    *and yes I know that doesn't mean SNP / Green / Alba will have 50% of the vote but that's the consequence of insane electoral rules.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    As far as I can tell from Northern Irish politics, both DUP and Sinn Fein are losing votes to the centre - chiefly the Alliance, but also the SDLP and the UUP.

    The DUP though is also losing votes to the “right”, ie the TUV.

    Arlene is being deposed not because she is a “liberal”, but because she absolutely fucked up on Brexit.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    Chameleon said:

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    I reckon that Alba's support is heavily unequal across the country, I'd be surprised if they don't get a seat in the NE, which would return Salmond.
    As we have discussed, Alba getting just one seat - Salmond - would be the best theatre imaginable. He would be simultaneously empowered and humiliated
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited April 2021
    Possible SLab could not only prevent the SNP winning a majority next week under Sarwar but also overtake the SCons for second due to gains on the list (though I think the SCons will still win more constituency seats and on today's poll maybe gain Moray, which is Ross' seat at Westminster and the most Leave seat in Scotland, which would make up for them losing Remain heavy Edinburgh central to Labour or the SNP)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    Starmer backs Biden on reversing what he calls 'trickle down economics'

    https://twitter.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1387708851437424647?s=20
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    Leon said:

    Chameleon said:

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    I reckon that Alba's support is heavily unequal across the country, I'd be surprised if they don't get a seat in the NE, which would return Salmond.
    As we have discussed, Alba getting just one seat - Salmond - would be the best theatre imaginable. He would be simultaneously empowered and humiliated
    Odds on for it to happen imo. They may be able to squeak out a Mid Scotland, or Highlands & Islands seat as well.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,874
    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    Lysistrata would be a relief for both of them
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,396
    Anyone know what occurs if there is a Labour Tory tie in Scotland?
    Who leads the opposition?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362

    As far as I can tell from Northern Irish politics, both DUP and Sinn Fein are losing votes to the centre - chiefly the Alliance, but also the SDLP and the UUP.

    The DUP though is also losing votes to the “right”, ie the TUV.

    Arlene is being deposed not because she is a “liberal”, but because she absolutely fucked up on Brexit.

    The DUP can do little about losing votes to the centre, it needs to stop those TUV voters from not voting DUP as unless they do that Sinn Fein will be the lead party come the next election with the DUP in deputy place.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Roger said:

    I wonder if Johnson's toxicity will show up later in Scotland because its got further to travel.

    The polling would suggest Johnson is already a well known quantity in Scotland.
  • Best result for the Union would be

    1. Alba fails to gain any seats
    2. SNP fails to gain a majority.
    3. Labour outperforms Conservative
    4. SNP/Green fail to gain a majority

    (1) and (2) now look likely.
    There is insufficient evidence for (3).
    I can only dream of (4).

    I would just comment that I was not aware until yesterday that the greens are not seeking an early referendum, principally because they want HMG to pay the costs of decommissioning the oil fields and not for it to fall on Scotland

    In regard to the trend away from independence resulting in no having a 7 % lead yesterday, I just want to say the one thing the Scots are known for is being 'very cannie' and post covid, brexit, and the economic consequences they are not about to risk their futures, including their pensions, on an experiment that has not had any answers from its proponents and is immeasurably more difficult now brexit has occurred.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,804
    dixiedean said:

    Anyone know what occurs if there is a Labour Tory tie in Scotland?
    Who leads the opposition?

    There is no formal HM Opposition in the Westminster bipartisan sense, and no LOTO, though Ms Davidson as was liked to call herself and her colleagues the Shadow Cabinet IIRC.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    eek said:

    As far as I can tell from Northern Irish politics, both DUP and Sinn Fein are losing votes to the centre - chiefly the Alliance, but also the SDLP and the UUP.

    The DUP though is also losing votes to the “right”, ie the TUV.

    Arlene is being deposed not because she is a “liberal”, but because she absolutely fucked up on Brexit.

    The DUP can do little about losing votes to the centre, it needs to stop those TUV voters from not voting DUP as unless they do that Sinn Fein will be the lead party come the next election with the DUP in deputy place.
    Yes, the last poll was SF 24%, DUP 19%, TUV 10%.

    Foster was the May of the DUP losing votes to the TUV, the NI Brexit Party.

    The DUP need to find a Boris to win back voters lost to a party to their right, a few DUP voters might vote UUP or Alliance as a few Tories voted LD once Boris took over but overall the net gains should be enough to give the DUP a narrow lead again
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093
    edited April 2021
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    That will be presented in different places as a 'supermajority' for independence and 'no majority' for independence.
    If the SNP actually LOSE seats all talk of a momentum towards indy will dissolve (especially with these dire-for-YES Indy polls). Sturgeon will ‘demand’ one but in the most lacklustre way. Boris will bat it aside. Sturgeon will shrug - and then her angry militants will come for her

    What are the odds on a Sturgeon departure this year? Might be VALUE
    That's a possible future, yes. An SNP majority is trading at approx even money, though, so the game is still very much afoot. There's no betfair market on Sturgeon exit date. I've actually done a small speculative punt at 15/1 on her NOT to be FM after this election. Did it after reading a post from "TUD" where he said he'd heard some gloomy things about her seat and the Labour threat there.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,804
    Chameleon said:

    Leon said:

    Chameleon said:

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    I reckon that Alba's support is heavily unequal across the country, I'd be surprised if they don't get a seat in the NE, which would return Salmond.
    As we have discussed, Alba getting just one seat - Salmond - would be the best theatre imaginable. He would be simultaneously empowered and humiliated
    Odds on for it to happen imo. They may be able to squeak out a Mid Scotland, or Highlands & Islands seat as well.
    I'm particularly interested to see if Andy Wightman gets in. His solid work on land ownership reform should resonate in the H&I list.
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,207
    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited April 2021
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    That will be presented in different places as a supermajority for independence and no majority for independence.
    When even most Scottish Green voters now oppose independence on the latest poll, then if the SNP, or at minimum the SNP and Alba, fail to win a Holyrood majority then that kills indyref2 stone dead
    https://archive.ph/eg2lt
    The Scottish Green Party manifesto wants a referendum...

    All votes for the SNP / Green / Alba are votes for a referendum...

    You may not like it but if the manifesto contains a referendum and those parties end up with 51%+* of the seats it's going to be hard to argue that there isn't demand for one.


    *and yes I know that doesn't mean SNP / Green / Alba will have 50% of the vote but that's the consequence of insane electoral rules.
    Well we Tories will not only argue, we will refuse an indyref2 stone dead if that was the outcome.

    It is our decision under the Scotland Act 1998 whether to have a binding referendum and how the future of the Union looks so tough. We are in power across the UK.

    The failure of the SNP to win a majority just makes that easier to enforce
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    That will be presented in different places as a supermajority for independence and no majority for independence.
    When even most Scottish Green voters now oppose independence on the latest poll, then if the SNP, or at minimum the SNP and Alba, fail to win a Holyrood majority then that kills indyref2 stone dead
    https://archive.ph/eg2lt
    Kills it for this parliament, you mean?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    edited April 2021
    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Were it to happen they would have little choice but to move back to rUK. Scotland couldn't support a bank of (even its new reduced) size as past disasters elsewhere have proven.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    That will be presented in different places as a supermajority for independence and no majority for independence.
    When even most Scottish Green voters now oppose independence on the latest poll, then if the SNP, or at minimum the SNP and Alba, fail to win a Holyrood majority then that kills indyref2 stone dead
    https://archive.ph/eg2lt
    Kills it for this parliament, you mean?
    Certainly, it would then need a PM Starmer to be elected in 2024 reliant on SNP confidence and supply for it to be back on the table
  • fox327fox327 Posts: 370
    edited April 2021

    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
  • kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    That will be presented in different places as a supermajority for independence and no majority for independence.
    When even most Scottish Green voters now oppose independence on the latest poll, then if the SNP, or at minimum the SNP and Alba, fail to win a Holyrood majority then that kills indyref2 stone dead
    https://archive.ph/eg2lt
    Kills it for this parliament, you mean?
    Indeed but I do genuinely think covid and brexit has undermined Scotland's case for Independence, together with the loss of oil revenues and the billions needed to decommission the oil fields

    I would be very surprised to see 'No' losing their lead in the polls, not only just now but through the next Scottish Parliament term

    I would caveat that by saying IMHO, and I could be wrong
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,773
    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,765
    Pulpstar said:

    Robert Peston is getting ripped a new one on Twitter for an astonishingly ignorant take on Northern Irish politics.

    "drive large numbers of unaligned voters to Sinn Fein" LOL
    What is the opposite of a polymath? Someone whose ignorance covers many areas?
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    HYUFD said:

    Possible SLab could not only prevent the SNP winning a majority next week under Sarwar but also overtake the SCons for second due to gains on the list (though I think the SCons will still win more constituency seats and on today's poll maybe gain Moray, which is Ross' seat at Westminster and the most Leave seat in Scotland, which would make up for them losing Remain heavy Edinburgh central to Labour or the SNP)

    Decent few seats they could lose though. Ayr and Eastwood (albeit Eastwood more likely to fall to Labour than SNP)

    The big issue is that as far as I can see, Labour don't have a single SNP seat that they would gain on a 5% swing. Unless there is a lot of tactical voting, even their modest current improvement they won't gain anything off of the SNP.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,099
    edited April 2021
    ..
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    That will be presented in different places as a supermajority for independence and no majority for independence.
    When even most Scottish Green voters now oppose independence on the latest poll, then if the SNP, or at minimum the SNP and Alba, fail to win a Holyrood majority then that kills indyref2 stone dead
    https://archive.ph/eg2lt
    Kills it for this parliament, you mean?
    Indeed but I do genuinely think covid and brexit has undermined Scotland's case for Independence, together with the loss of oil revenues and the billions needed to decommission the oil fields

    I would be very surprised to see 'No' losing their lead in the polls, not only just now but through the next Scottish Parliament term

    I would caveat that by saying IMHO, and I could be wrong
    Surely the oil firms running the oil fields should pay for their decommissioning?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,874

    Roger said:

    I wonder if Johnson's toxicity will show up later in Scotland because its got further to travel.

    The polling would suggest Johnson is already a well known quantity in Scotland.
    Yes but Lulu Lytle isn't. I don't remember Dr Finlay doing his place up like a peacock's boudoir.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    That will be presented in different places as a supermajority for independence and no majority for independence.
    When even most Scottish Green voters now oppose independence on the latest poll, then if the SNP, or at minimum the SNP and Alba, fail to win a Holyrood majority then that kills indyref2 stone dead
    https://archive.ph/eg2lt
    Kills it for this parliament, you mean?
    Indeed but I do genuinely think covid and brexit has undermined Scotland's case for Independence, together with the loss of oil revenues and the billions needed to decommission the oil fields

    I would be very surprised to see 'No' losing their lead in the polls, not only just now but through the next Scottish Parliament term

    I would caveat that by saying IMHO, and I could be wrong
    Surely the oil firms running the oil fields should pay for their decommissioning?
    Carefully timed bankruptcy...
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,747
    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Robert Peston is getting ripped a new one on Twitter for an astonishingly ignorant take on Northern Irish politics.

    "drive large numbers of unaligned voters to Sinn Fein" LOL
    What is the opposite of a polymath? Someone whose ignorance covers many areas?
    Should be a word!

    (I'd suggest polyoaf)
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,539
    edited April 2021
    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Robert Peston is getting ripped a new one on Twitter for an astonishingly ignorant take on Northern Irish politics.

    "drive large numbers of unaligned voters to Sinn Fein" LOL
    What is the opposite of a polymath? Someone whose ignorance covers many areas?
    Polytwat has a nice ring. Polyprat slightly more vicar-friendly.

    The Guardian employ their very own.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited April 2021
    Chameleon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Possible SLab could not only prevent the SNP winning a majority next week under Sarwar but also overtake the SCons for second due to gains on the list (though I think the SCons will still win more constituency seats and on today's poll maybe gain Moray, which is Ross' seat at Westminster and the most Leave seat in Scotland, which would make up for them losing Remain heavy Edinburgh central to Labour or the SNP)

    Decent few seats they could lose though. Ayr and Eastwood (albeit Eastwood more likely to fall to Labour than SNP)

    The big issue is that as far as I can see, Labour don't have a single SNP seat that they would gain on a 5% swing. Unless there is a lot of tactical voting, even their modest current improvement they won't gain anything off of the SNP.
    On today's Comres poll there is a 1.25% swing from the SNP to the SCons on the constituency vote since 2016, so Ayr and Eastwood would both be SCon holds.

    Labour's top 2 targets are Eastwood yes and Edinburgh Central, of the 2 Central is probably their best bet as it is ultra Remain and there could be a lot of direct switching of Unionist Remainers there from SCon to Labour now Davidson is gone

    https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1387655832037437442?s=20
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670
    edited April 2021
    If I was the gambling type I'd definitely be looking at SLab 2nd place bets.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,099

    Cookie said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Robert Peston is getting ripped a new one on Twitter for an astonishingly ignorant take on Northern Irish politics.

    "drive large numbers of unaligned voters to Sinn Fein" LOL
    What is the opposite of a polymath? Someone whose ignorance covers many areas?
    Polytwat has a nice ring. Polyprat slightly more vicar-friendly.

    The Guardian employ their very own.
    Just "Polly"
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,722
    edited April 2021
    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Good riddance. Shitty Bank. I had an account with from age c16 with them until my wife died in late 2012 (God rest her soul)and then they were fecking unhelpful. Let them feck of to Scotland. Who gives a shit?, Certainly not me.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    The SNP have said they would want to be through the pandemic before another referendum would be held, and subsequent negotiations in the event of a win for the independence side would presumably take several years with Scotland still able to access the annual block grant.

    https://news.stv.tv/scotland/sir-tom-hunter-now-is-not-the-time-to-gamble-on-indyref2

    Why would rUK send a penny more than Scotland raises in taxes itself if it had voted to leave the UK?

    "We don't like you but can we still have your money?"

    Electoral suicide for a Westminster government.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,539

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    That will be presented in different places as a supermajority for independence and no majority for independence.
    When even most Scottish Green voters now oppose independence on the latest poll, then if the SNP, or at minimum the SNP and Alba, fail to win a Holyrood majority then that kills indyref2 stone dead
    https://archive.ph/eg2lt
    Kills it for this parliament, you mean?
    Indeed but I do genuinely think covid and brexit has undermined Scotland's case for Independence, together with the loss of oil revenues and the billions needed to decommission the oil fields

    I would be very surprised to see 'No' losing their lead in the polls, not only just now but through the next Scottish Parliament term

    I would caveat that by saying IMHO, and I could be wrong
    Surely the oil firms running the oil fields should pay for their decommissioning?
    Currently the UK Government assess the financial viability of anyone awarded (or any intended transferee of existing) petroleum exploitation rights with a view to ensuring their ability to meet these abandonment obligations. The UK could now take a divergent view on abandonment requirements from the EU. Assuming the EU gold-plate their standards, Scotland would have to immediately set up their own abandonment body, then put in place a levy for a very large advance to bridge any gap between UK and EU standards. All at a time of oil price volatility - and in a world now hating hydrocarbons.

    Good luck, Scotland.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,773
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    The SNP have said they would want to be through the pandemic before another referendum would be held, and subsequent negotiations in the event of a win for the independence side would presumably take several years with Scotland still able to access the annual block grant.

    https://news.stv.tv/scotland/sir-tom-hunter-now-is-not-the-time-to-gamble-on-indyref2

    Why would rUK send a penny more than Scotland raises in taxes itself if it had voted to leave the UK?

    "We don't like you but can we still have your money?"

    Electoral suicide for a Westminster government.

    It is reason enough for Boris to say No to a vote, in itself. Keep taking the money as you demand a mutually ruinous divorce? Fuck off

    The SNP surely know this. Probably this is their plan. They don’t want a referendum now. Look at the polls and the pile of debt. They want to demand a referendum in such outrageous terms it is easy and obligatory for Boris to say No. The SNP can nurture a grievance without facing the catastrophe of a 2nd No vote

    However this might easily destabilize the Nats. 30% of them want a new vote TOMORROW

    Sturgeon is in some trouble
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,936
    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited April 2021
    Leon said:

    The SNP have said they would want to be through the pandemic before another referendum would be held, and subsequent negotiations in the event of a win for the independence side would presumably take several years with Scotland still able to access the annual block grant.

    https://news.stv.tv/scotland/sir-tom-hunter-now-is-not-the-time-to-gamble-on-indyref2

    Why would rUK send a penny more than Scotland raises in taxes itself if it had voted to leave the UK?

    "We don't like you but can we still have your money?"

    Electoral suicide for a Westminster government.

    It is reason enough for Boris to say No to a vote, in itself. Keep taking the money as you demand a mutually ruinous divorce? Fuck off

    The SNP surely know this. Probably this is their plan. They don’t want a referendum now. Look at the polls and the pile of debt. They want to demand a referendum in such outrageous terms it is easy and obligatory for Boris to say No. The SNP can nurture a grievance without facing the catastrophe of a 2nd No vote

    However this might easily destabilize the Nats. 30% of them want a new vote TOMORROW

    Sturgeon is in some trouble
    Yes, Nicola Sturgeon is Theresa May 2 it seems.

    Last year she was heading serenely for a landslide SNP majority in the polls, now with just a week to go to polling day she faces not only failing to get a majority but seeing the SNP actually lose seats.

    She will then face turbulence from the hardline Nationalist Alba contingency for not pushing for independence enough just as May did from the ERG for not delivering a hard enough Brexit.

    Unfortunately for Nationalists Salmond, who would have been their Boris, is now deeply unpopular in Scotland too
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,747
    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,211
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    What if the cafe makes it a condition of entry that you fill out a form or register?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,977
    Boris: "I don't think there's anything to see here or to worry about". Nothing to see here, move along. Where Government communications has got to on this issue.
    https://twitter.com/DPJHodges/status/1387725994358976512
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    .
    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    Nah, people have in their heads 21 June, they have had it for months. Its set now and any government that attempts to drag that out now would be committing Seppuku.

    People will keep calm and carry on until 21 June but then it is OVER. Some people will want to drag it out, but for the overwhelming majority of people the second its no longer required that will be it. No ifs, no buts, no messing around.

    Its worth remembering very few people were wearing masks until they were made compulsory. The second its no longer compulsory the overwhelming majority of people will stop doing it - and almost no business will demand it because they'd be stupid to do so.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I think you'll be able to do that very soon.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    I just read that DM article on Wallpapergate. (Adblocker on obvs so they don't get any revenue). The designer's work looks not dissimilar to chez nous. Obviously I have no idea what any of it cost or where it came from. I do know that some newly ennobled ex-copper didn't pay for it via the tory party because we couldn't actually afford it.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Interesting approach in Wales where they are running a "two streams" approach to get as many jabs in arms as quickly as possible:

    Gill Harris, Executive Director of Nursing and Midwifery for BCUHB, said: “This week, to ensure our vaccine supply is administered as quickly as it is received, we will continue to run two streams for those aged 18-49.

    “One will deliver the Pfizer vaccine to those under the age of 30, and one will deliver the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine to those aged between 30 and 49.

    “We are adopting this pragmatic approach to ensure vaccines are not left for long periods unused.


    https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/19248654.two-vaccination-streams-running-north-wales-amid-new-covid-19-advice/

    Potentially smart as long as vaccine supply holds up.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164

    The SNP have said they would want to be through the pandemic before another referendum would be held, and subsequent negotiations in the event of a win for the independence side would presumably take several years with Scotland still able to access the annual block grant.

    https://news.stv.tv/scotland/sir-tom-hunter-now-is-not-the-time-to-gamble-on-indyref2

    Why would rUK send a penny more than Scotland raises in taxes itself if it had voted to leave the UK?

    "We don't like you but can we still have your money?"

    Electoral suicide for a Westminster government.

    Souinds like they want their haggis and to eat it...........
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    What if the cafe makes it a condition of entry that you fill out a form or register?
    Why would they? What cafe goes out of its way to piss off their customers and for what reason?

    If a cafe wants to do this I'd assume they have very good reasons for wanting to do so and respect that. The overwhelming majority of cafes will simply want as many paying customers as they can get.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,765
    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    I admire, and am encouraged by, your optimism. But I find it hard to share. Why, if social distancing ends on the 21st June, are councils still recruting covid marshalls? Why are sage talking about mask wearing next winter? I hope whay you think will happen, will happen. But I have little faith in the state giving up power it has given itself.
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,164
    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362
    felix said:

    The SNP have said they would want to be through the pandemic before another referendum would be held, and subsequent negotiations in the event of a win for the independence side would presumably take several years with Scotland still able to access the annual block grant.

    https://news.stv.tv/scotland/sir-tom-hunter-now-is-not-the-time-to-gamble-on-indyref2

    Why would rUK send a penny more than Scotland raises in taxes itself if it had voted to leave the UK?

    "We don't like you but can we still have your money?"

    Electoral suicide for a Westminster government.

    Souinds like they want their haggis and to eat it...........
    It's their economic policy wrote large.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,211

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    What if the cafe makes it a condition of entry that you fill out a form or register?
    Why would they? What cafe goes out of its way to piss off their customers and for what reason?

    If a cafe wants to do this I'd assume they have very good reasons for wanting to do so and respect that. The overwhelming majority of cafes will simply want as many paying customers as they can get.
    I might save that post and whip it out after 21 June, PT.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,936
    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    What if the cafe makes it a condition of entry that you fill out a form or register?
    I would make a decision as to whether I wanted to take my custom elsewhere or whether the faff was not sufficient to put me off staying.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,936
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Interesting - no registration, etc? Haven't seen that elsewhere.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,362

    Interesting approach in Wales where they are running a "two streams" approach to get as many jabs in arms as quickly as possible:

    Gill Harris, Executive Director of Nursing and Midwifery for BCUHB, said: “This week, to ensure our vaccine supply is administered as quickly as it is received, we will continue to run two streams for those aged 18-49.

    “One will deliver the Pfizer vaccine to those under the age of 30, and one will deliver the Oxford AstraZeneca vaccine to those aged between 30 and 49.

    “We are adopting this pragmatic approach to ensure vaccines are not left for long periods unused.


    https://www.leaderlive.co.uk/news/19248654.two-vaccination-streams-running-north-wales-amid-new-covid-19-advice/

    Potentially smart as long as vaccine supply holds up.

    Not sure about that plan - it really should be women getting Pfizer up to say 35/40 and men getting AstraZeneca as the clotting risk is to women not men.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093
    edited April 2021

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    That will be presented in different places as a supermajority for independence and no majority for independence.
    When even most Scottish Green voters now oppose independence on the latest poll, then if the SNP, or at minimum the SNP and Alba, fail to win a Holyrood majority then that kills indyref2 stone dead
    https://archive.ph/eg2lt
    Kills it for this parliament, you mean?
    Indeed but I do genuinely think covid and brexit has undermined Scotland's case for Independence, together with the loss of oil revenues and the billions needed to decommission the oil fields

    I would be very surprised to see 'No' losing their lead in the polls, not only just now but through the next Scottish Parliament term

    I would caveat that by saying IMHO, and I could be wrong
    The Nats have to bring together 2 things at the same time. Strong polling support for Sindy. A Westminster configuration that will produce a Ref. And they then need to win that Ref. It's a challenge. I personally think Sindy as an ultimate outcome is a stone cold certainty but I rate the chance of it being achieved in the near term as quite a bit less than 50/50.
  • ChameleonChameleon Posts: 4,264
    edited April 2021
    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    What if the cafe makes it a condition of entry that you fill out a form or register?
    They're welcome to take whatever steps they feel they need to do to protect the health of their staff, customers, and the wider public.

    However, many places won't (Spoons definitely won't, as won't my local), so I'm likely to go to them instead. Given what a rough 18 months these places have had, I can't see many keeping custom losing policies for very long.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,747
    felix said:

    Omnium said:

    MaxPB said:

    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    Floater said:

    I see Nat West have said they will relocate if Scotland gains "Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeedom"

    Tbf, I think they might do it either way and renominate their HQ to their Bishopsgate base and dump the last vestiges of of the RBS buyout and subsequent failure.
    Doing that would mean dropping the printing of RBS bank notes - which would be a very political (and business) sensitive decision.

    Mind you if personal banking runs at a loss and you wanted to start closing it down it would be an ideal way of doing so.
    Wouldn't you just spin RBS into an entity which stays in Scotland while the rest of the company stays with NatWest Group in London. Effectively reversing the RBS takeover of NatWest so that NatWest becomes the owner of RBS which keeps the banknote printing licence in Edinburgh.
    They wouldn't be able to print Sterling banknotes anyway, and I don't think that the EU would want banknotes bearing that name.

    The whole economic side of independence is in my view almost impossible to navigate. At least for the time being. (Of course there may be wise Scottish heads that have a viable plan, but it seems unlikely to me)

    Their wisest heads talk about using the £ - unfortunately without the wisdom to understand that really dose not make them independent at all.
    Yep. Unlikely that they could join the EU if so though. The best of a bad set of choices would be to adopt the Euro.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,211
    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    What if the cafe makes it a condition of entry that you fill out a form or register?
    I would make a decision as to whether I wanted to take my custom elsewhere or whether the faff was not sufficient to put me off staying.
    If the former would you ensure that they are aware that their policy no longer has the force of law behind it and is driving customers to their competitors? Otherwise they won't know.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Interesting - no registration, etc? Haven't seen that elsewhere.
    Yes, everywhere was like that - Cornwall, Devon, Dorset. They want the business and they have basically zero Covid, so you just sit down and ask for a beer. Or a seafood lunch. No problem

    Lyme Regis in particular was rammed. It was a lovely sunny day - but a workday. It felt like a particularly jubilant Bank Holiday

    Likewise, a friend of mine was out in Soho last night, he reports scenes of wild hedonism

    We could be heading into an epic summer
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093
    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    HYUFD said:

    kinabalu said:

    Looks increasingly likely to me that Alba are going to miss out on any seats at all (sorry Malcolm), that the SNP are going to miss out on a majority on their own due to the voting system and may even go backwards, but those in favour of a second referendum will increase their majority because of the Greens gaining more seats.

    How that will go down is beyond me. Strange days.

    That will be presented in different places as a supermajority for independence and no majority for independence.
    When even most Scottish Green voters now oppose independence on the latest poll, then if the SNP, or at minimum the SNP and Alba, fail to win a Holyrood majority then that kills indyref2 stone dead
    https://archive.ph/eg2lt
    Kills it for this parliament, you mean?
    Certainly, it would then need a PM Starmer to be elected in 2024 reliant on SNP confidence and supply for it to be back on the table
    That could be the technicals - but I'd say it's "back on the table" as soon as there's strong polling support for it. There's only one way for unionists to kill Sindy. Have this Ref and win it.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Any reason you shunned Devon?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Any reason you shunned Devon?
    I had a nice lunch there! The same procedure - no registration, just sit down. Bizarrely miraculous feeling
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,211

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    What if the cafe makes it a condition of entry that you fill out a form or register?
    Why would they? What cafe goes out of its way to piss off their customers and for what reason?

    If a cafe wants to do this I'd assume they have very good reasons for wanting to do so and respect that. The overwhelming majority of cafes will simply want as many paying customers as they can get.
    This is my best guess at what will happen.

    Legal compulsion will be removed 21 June. Government will trumpet freedom day - or whatever - and its success in achieving road map target. In tandem, though, the government or Whitty et al will say something along the lines of "we advise x, y and z as best practice to maximise safety". Business decide to take guidelines as quasi laws, probably with indemnity insurance in their minds, and not much changes post 21 June with many businesses.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    What if the cafe makes it a condition of entry that you fill out a form or register?
    I would make a decision as to whether I wanted to take my custom elsewhere or whether the faff was not sufficient to put me off staying.
    If the former would you ensure that they are aware that their policy no longer has the force of law behind it and is driving customers to their competitors? Otherwise they won't know.
    Do you really think they won't know?

    This has been the single most dominant news story to affect our lives, probably of any of our lifetimes (unless there's anyone here old enough to remember WWII). All of the owners of these businesses will have been deeply impacted and struggling to keep afloat for a year now and paying damn close attention to what the rules are.

    The idea that the restrictions will be lifted and the business owners will just be blasé, not informed, or not implement the looser rules has to be one of the most puzzling suggestions anyone keeps making.

    You can bet you bottom pound that every serious pub landlord, cafe owner or anyone else will know pretty much exactly what is and is not allowed on 21 June.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,539
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Interesting - no registration, etc? Haven't seen that elsewhere.
    Yes, everywhere was like that - Cornwall, Devon, Dorset. They want the business and they have basically zero Covid, so you just sit down and ask for a beer. Or a seafood lunch. No problem

    Lyme Regis in particular was rammed. It was a lovely sunny day - but a workday. It felt like a particularly jubilant Bank Holiday

    Likewise, a friend of mine was out in Soho last night, he reports scenes of wild hedonism

    We could be heading into an epic summer
    As Europe sticks its nose to the glass, looking in wistfully at partying Brits.

    That's what you get for trying to fight Covid on the cheap, Europe.

  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,297
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Any reason you shunned Devon?
    I had a nice lunch there! The same procedure - no registration, just sit down. Bizarrely miraculous feeling
    Yep.

    I was in Exmouth for the week after April 12.

    Nary a mask in sight.

    Was sheer joy to sit down and have someone bring me gin and tonic.

    In fact, in terms of mental well-being, it was the best holiday I have EVER had.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    What if the cafe makes it a condition of entry that you fill out a form or register?
    Why would they? What cafe goes out of its way to piss off their customers and for what reason?

    If a cafe wants to do this I'd assume they have very good reasons for wanting to do so and respect that. The overwhelming majority of cafes will simply want as many paying customers as they can get.
    This is my best guess at what will happen.

    Legal compulsion will be removed 21 June. Government will trumpet freedom day - or whatever - and its success in achieving road map target. In tandem, though, the government or Whitty et al will say something along the lines of "we advise x, y and z as best practice to maximise safety". Business decide to take guidelines as quasi laws, probably with indemnity insurance in their minds, and not much changes post 21 June with many businesses.
    Businesses will do whatever maximises their custom based upon what the rules are. People will push the boundaries of the rules, doing as little as they're obliged to do under the law.

    Customers and businesses want this behind them and businesses want cash in the tills. Its naïve to suggest otherwise.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    What if the cafe makes it a condition of entry that you fill out a form or register?
    I would make a decision as to whether I wanted to take my custom elsewhere or whether the faff was not sufficient to put me off staying.
    If the former would you ensure that they are aware that their policy no longer has the force of law behind it and is driving customers to their competitors? Otherwise they won't know.
    Do you really think they won't know?

    This has been the single most dominant news story to affect our lives, probably of any of our lifetimes (unless there's anyone here old enough to remember WWII). All of the owners of these businesses will have been deeply impacted and struggling to keep afloat for a year now and paying damn close attention to what the rules are.

    The idea that the restrictions will be lifted and the business owners will just be blasé, not informed, or not implement the looser rules has to be one of the most puzzling suggestions anyone keeps making.

    You can bet you bottom pound that every serious pub landlord, cafe owner or anyone else will know pretty much exactly what is and is not allowed on 21 June.
    The market will decide. Pubs and cafes will go for maximum freedom, surely. That’s what people want when they have a coffee or a glass of wine. No drama

    Places with older, more cautious customers - theatres? - might maintain some restrictions for a while

    In general, however, the tendency will be to freedom. Animal spirits will prevail; unless the bastard bug returns
  • Stocky said:

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    What if the cafe makes it a condition of entry that you fill out a form or register?
    Why would they? What cafe goes out of its way to piss off their customers and for what reason?

    If a cafe wants to do this I'd assume they have very good reasons for wanting to do so and respect that. The overwhelming majority of cafes will simply want as many paying customers as they can get.
    This is my best guess at what will happen.

    Legal compulsion will be removed 21 June. Government will trumpet freedom day - or whatever - and its success in achieving road map target. In tandem, though, the government or Whitty et al will say something along the lines of "we advise x, y and z as best practice to maximise safety". Business decide to take guidelines as quasi laws, probably with indemnity insurance in their minds, and not much changes post 21 June with many businesses.
    Add in the emboldened local officialdom, an army of environmental health officers will be doing their hardest to maintain social distancing and keeping down occupancy in eating and drinking establishments.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1387692145339944961
    "Latest @BMGResearch preferred Prime Minister poll:

    Boris Johnson: 40% (+5)
    Keir Starmer: 24% (-4)

    What is Keir Starmer doing wrong?"


    But his wallpaper . . .
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    I just did a very plez tour of Cornwall and Dorset

    In several places I just sat down, asked for a cold beer, and turned my face to the sun. Bliss

    Any reason you shunned Devon?
    I had a nice lunch there! The same procedure - no registration, just sit down. Bizarrely miraculous feeling
    Yep.

    I was in Exmouth for the week after April 12.

    Nary a mask in sight.

    Was sheer joy to sit down and have someone bring me gin and tonic.

    In fact, in terms of mental well-being, it was the best holiday I have EVER had.
    Exactly the same for me. I was in a funk of gloom in London.

    That week just gone, of West Country sun and pub lunches, was intensely cheering. It should see me through to May 17...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    edited April 2021

    https://twitter.com/spectator/status/1387692145339944961
    "Latest @BMGResearch preferred Prime Minister poll:

    Boris Johnson: 40% (+5)
    Keir Starmer: 24% (-4)

    What is Keir Starmer doing wrong?"


    But his wallpaper . . .

    12 day old poll
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,093
    Cookie said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    I admire, and am encouraged by, your optimism. But I find it hard to share. Why, if social distancing ends on the 21st June, are councils still recruting covid marshalls? Why are sage talking about mask wearing next winter? I hope whay you think will happen, will happen. But I have little faith in the state giving up power it has given itself.
    Well we'll see. I think you'll find the compulsion goes. Maybe bits & pieces kicking around but by and large we'll go back to something close to pre-pandemic. As to why the talk? - there's always talk and people can find what they want in it. Like, there was lots of talk about vaxports, wasn't there? I said we could safely ignore most of it, and so it is coming to pass. Bottom line, Cookie, I don't see the government throwing away the societal dividend from beating the pandemic. It's in nobody's interest and I most particularly do NOT buy this stuff about "the scientists won't give up centre stage easily" or "the politicians like these restrictions and will find excuses to prolong them". I just think all that is way off beam.. It makes no sense. No, you'll be rocking on 22 June, trust me.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,211

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    Stocky said:

    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    fox327 said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @tompeck Confess I hadn’t read this in full til now. What a mess. Just imagine the atmosphere in that flat right now, actually having to live among the gold wallpaper that is bringing you down. Boris Johnson has become his own Greek myth.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9518183/amp/Boriss-despairing-cry-Downing-St-aides-lavish-new-decor.html?__twitter_impression=true

    If so, it would be the most boring Greek myth ever, focussing mainly on scatter cushions

    My eyes glazed over as I read it. So dull. I know Remoaners like you and Tom Peck are desperate for some belated revenge on Boris, but I’d be amazed if this is it. Sturgeon survived an alleged conspiracy to jail and ruin a rival on fake rape charges, Boris will survive a confected brouhaha about decor

    His reckoning will come, however. When the economy slides
    The economies slide has already occurred. We're about to enter the bounceback not the slide.

    Slides tend to come about once every 8-12 years. Next slide quite plausibly could be around the time of the 2033 election.
    The general assumption that people are making is that the economic slide will soon be reversed, so government spending cuts and tax rises can be kept manageable.

    Also, there is an assumption that social distancing measures, such as working from home and wearing masks, will continue for the forseeable future. These assumptions, which are widely held, cannot both be correct.

    I think that it is too early to say that the economic contraction is over.
    Social distancing ends 21 June.

    If social distancing is still in place 22 June I would support letters being sent to Graham Brady.
    Compulsory distancing driven by government ends on 21st June. After that it will be discretionary, and is bound to continue to an extent and in certain ways for quite a while.
    We are very much baked into the masks, screens, no entry unlesses.

    But that too will pass in time.

    Of course a subset of society will throw their masks on the bonfire but they will find it difficult to operate as per the status quo ante. For a while.

    Me, I just want to pop into a cafe, sit down at a free table and order a decaf americano without having to fill any forms in or register.
    What if the cafe makes it a condition of entry that you fill out a form or register?
    I would make a decision as to whether I wanted to take my custom elsewhere or whether the faff was not sufficient to put me off staying.
    If the former would you ensure that they are aware that their policy no longer has the force of law behind it and is driving customers to their competitors? Otherwise they won't know.
    Do you really think they won't know?

    This has been the single most dominant news story to affect our lives, probably of any of our lifetimes (unless there's anyone here old enough to remember WWII). All of the owners of these businesses will have been deeply impacted and struggling to keep afloat for a year now and paying damn close attention to what the rules are.

    The idea that the restrictions will be lifted and the business owners will just be blasé, not informed, or not implement the looser rules has to be one of the most puzzling suggestions anyone keeps making.

    You can bet you bottom pound that every serious pub landlord, cafe owner or anyone else will know pretty much exactly what is and is not allowed on 21 June.
    No - sorry - when I said they won't know I meant about losing some customers.

    Got to run. Mrs Stocky is demanding we go look at some carpet and stuff. I'll keep within £30,000.
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