On the flipside it is a BIT funny listening to the shrill hysteria of Sky at the thought that the vastly over-inflated product at the heart of their business might be at risk in some way.
Oh completely. I’m enjoying Sky, the Big 6, the EPL, the plastic fans, UEFA and all those who have contributed to making the game I love infinitely worse being made to look like fools today. Sky, their pundits and commentators deserve a very, very small violin.
Incidentally @kinabalu Johnson is 5'9" and 14.5 stone isn't even obese for someone 5'9".
More than one in four British adults are obese. I would definitely count Johnson within that 1 in 4, wouldn't you?
17.5 not 14.5.
And he's five nine in his Cubans.
Yes I would think he was a liar if he said he was 14.5 stone at his heaviest. He was definitely obese at his heaviest and 14.5 stone is not obese.
17.5 stone is believable. 14.5 stone is not.
If by 14.5 stone you mean 14 stone and 7 lbs (which is 14 1/2 stone) then according to the NHS calculator that is officially obese. Just admittedly but it is never the less.
At 5'9" ?
I put that into the calculator and it came to BMI 29.0 which is not obese. 30+ is obese.
Johnson is at least 5'10" from what I've read.
I’ve met him twice. He is no way that tall.
How come everyone on PB has met a PM and many have met several? Never even met an MP here.
In fairness I only met him years before he became PM, while he was London mayor. Unless he has grown at least two inches in that time, he’s nothing like 5-10.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
Try telling that to any team that’s been in the same league as Salford. Neville can be outspoken as this goes against Sky in every way.
Klopp had to be brave but he wasn’t. My whatsapp group of various football league supporters feels let down by his words. Perhaps armchair Liverpool fans are more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Opinions and all that.
Klopp was brave. He was very clear.
"Jurgen in the past you said you oppose the idea of a Super League, have your thoughts changed" "My thoughts have not changed . . . I like the competitive nature of the Champions League, I like that West Ham could play Champions League . . . we want to qualify for the Champions League . . . the boys didn't do anything wrong, I really want to make sure everybody knows that".
He's crystal clear. Unless you expect him to take a dump on Anfield and walk out, I'm not sure what more you expect.
He didn't explicitly say he opposes the super league. He said he didn't know much about it etc. etc.
He said his thoughts have not changed [from when he said he was opposed] and he said he likes clubs like West Ham being able to qualify for the Champions League.
Incidentally @kinabalu Johnson is 5'9" and 14.5 stone isn't even obese for someone 5'9".
More than one in four British adults are obese. I would definitely count Johnson within that 1 in 4, wouldn't you?
17.5 not 14.5.
And he's five nine in his Cubans.
Yes I would think he was a liar if he said he was 14.5 stone at his heaviest. He was definitely obese at his heaviest and 14.5 stone is not obese.
17.5 stone is believable. 14.5 stone is not.
If by 14.5 stone you mean 14 stone and 7 lbs (which is 14 1/2 stone) then according to the NHS calculator that is officially obese. Just admittedly but it is never the less.
At 5'9" ?
I put that into the calculator and it came to BMI 29.0 which is not obese. 30+ is obese.
Johnson is at least 5'10" from what I've read.
I’ve met him twice. He is no way that tall.
Not doubting you, but when you look at photos of Johnson and Cameron together, Johnson looks about 2 inches shorter, and Cameron was supposed to be 6 feet tall.
I have no idea with Cameron, I’ve not met him. Boris is the only PM I have met (twice, prior to his being PM, both as mayor of London)
For what it’s worth (assuming you believe I’ve stood near them and why would you?) I think you’re right. I’m 5’ 9” - Cameron was noticeably taller than me. Boris is not. Nor is he noticeably shorter.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
But whilst the trophies were coming in how many Liverpool fans complained about John W. Henry? Or Man City fans about Sheikh Mansour? Or Chelsea fans about Abramovitch? Or you during the good times at Arsenal? Did you moan in 2007 when Stan Kroenke and Alisher Usmanov took charge of your club? Or did you just relish those FA Cups which added to your full cabinet? Were you there when they lifted The Cup in 2014, 2015, 2017 and 2020? Etc. etc.
I would call it hypocrisy by the fans but it's more naivety. These fans were happy whilst they made massive signings and lifted trophies but they didn't realise that it was going to come at a big big price. This is it. Today. Welcome to the Brave New World of global football.
I had this discussion with a Man City fan friend whom I've known for many years. Once they were a middling to good club, rooted and with a proper fan base. Then came the takeover. I tried to tell my friend that it was going to come at a price, that all that money wasn't going to be for free, that one day they'd pay the price. He thought I had sour grapes. But today is the logical conclusion of what happened in football many years ago.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
JFC - he's attacking Liverpool fans. Good God, I hope he has good security at home.
What did he say?
Basically not happy that the fans are taking down banners. His view is that they need to stick together at times like this and says that he and the players are not to blame.
So he wants to stick together with the fans and is saying he's not to blame, ie the owners are to blame?
Sounds reasonable.
They should have refused to play tonight.
That's not an option, be realistic.
They're multi millionaires. They have so much power. They can put a stop to it.
Tuchel was equally pathetic in his press conference today.
They'd be fired for gross misconduct if they didn't play.
Be realistic that's not an option.
From the sounds of it Klopp explicitly didn't back the owners tonight, didn't support the idea, and basically said "he's not to blame" (ie the owners are to blame). Which is about as far as an employee of a business can realistically go in undermining their employer.
Well, if Liverpool wants to sack its players, that would really add to the value of the club!
If the players were banned from international matches, that would probably be ‘just cause’ and spa reason not to award compensation.
No, if I was there I'd make sure the ire is focussed solely on FSG.
You guys were piping yourselves off over FSG not that long ago when we were discussing Saudi ownership of NUFC.
Funny old world.
Still John W. Henry, Tom Werner, and Mike Gordon have never had anyone murdered.
I still maintain that FSG have been great owners of Liverpool, they have built a self sustaining club, this proposal has the potential over ruining a decade's worth of good work.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I feel for you, because I suspect you're going to be disappointed. Far easier just to disown the scum and move on as I have done with Arsenal.
The 6 English clubs seem to think that the football world revolves around them and that supporters will just moan for a week and then just accept this football non-competition.
If the 6 clubs think the supporters will just put up with this crap then they’re clearly delusional !
I know this bit is going to make you fume but they apparently see people like you and me as 'legacy fans' (a phrase which emerged this morning).
The big bosses don't particularly care about us. They're after the millions of fans around the world in places like Asia and the emerging market of America.
I know, I know. It's sick. But as I said, the time to complain was when the likes of Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyantook over Man City or Roman Abramovitch, Chelsea or Stanley Kroenke, Arsenal. For years "supporters" of these clubs were perfectly happy to put up with these owners so long as the glory glory of glittering trophies were delivered.
But these people are huge business operators. They know that there's a massive global market to tap for money and, I know it's shit, but your average fan wandering up the Seven Sisters road doesn't matter so much to them.
You will never hear a bad word said about Khun Top or his late father at Leicester City. Best owners that we have ever had, and very respectful of the fans and traditions too.
Though it probably is the rise of Leicester (and the others like West Ham, and Wolves last season) that is behind this Super League. If we hadn't won the title, and then followed it up by consolidating a top 6 position, and probably Top 4, then the hegemony of the six would have stood. Teams like Arsenal and Spurs know that they have been eclipsed. That is how football should be, and they don't like it.
No, if I was there I'd make sure the ire is focussed solely on FSG.
You guys were piping yourselves off over FSG not that long ago when we were discussing Saudi ownership of NUFC.
Funny old world.
FSG are good owners, they have just screwed up here because they don't understand the English game in the way we do. They come from a country where relegation is an alien concept, not a beloved fundamental strength of football.
That's why its good to have respected people like Klopp on side and not walking away. They can help talk them owners back down and into some acceptable compromise.
No, if I was there I'd make sure the ire is focussed solely on FSG.
You guys were piping yourselves off over FSG not that long ago when we were discussing Saudi ownership of NUFC.
Funny old world.
FSG are good owners, they have just screwed up here because they don't understand the English game in the way we do. They come from a country where relegation is an alien concept, not a beloved fundamental strength of football.
That's why its good to have respected people like Klopp on side and not walking away. They can help talk them owners back down and into some acceptable compromise.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
But whilst the trophies were coming in how many Liverpool fans complained about John W. Henry? Or Man City fans about Sheikh Mansour? Or Chelsea fans about Abramovitch? Or you during the good times at Arsenal? Did you moan in 2007 when Stan Kroenke and Alisher Usmanov took charge of your club? Or did you just relish those FA Cups which added to your full cabinet? Were you there when they lifted The Cup in 2014, 2015, 2017 and 2020? Etc. etc.
I would call it hypocrisy by the fans but it's more naivety. These fans were happy whilst they made massive signings and lifted trophies but they didn't realise that it was going to come at a big big price. This is it. Today. Welcome to the Brave New World of global football.
I had this discussion with a Man City fan friend whom I've known for many years. Once they were a middling to good club, rooted and with a proper fan base. Then came the takeover. I tried to tell my friend that it was going to come at a price, that all that money wasn't going to be for free, that one day they'd pay the price. He thought I had sour grapes. But today is the logical conclusion of what happened in football many years ago.
You'd never hear me singing "spend some fucking money" as some twats at Arsenal did.
I don't really care who owns a football club. The competition is sacred. There is nothing hypocritical about this.
Anyway, if the owners of these clubs want to do this, let them. I still expect it to come crashing down and with a bit of luck the owners will lose their shirts.
The 6 English clubs seem to think that the football world revolves around them and that supporters will just moan for a week and then just accept this football non-competition.
If the 6 clubs think the supporters will just put up with this crap then they’re clearly delusional !
I know this bit is going to make you fume but they apparently see people like you and me as 'legacy fans' (a phrase which emerged this morning).
The big bosses don't particularly care about us. They're after the millions of fans around the world in places like Asia and the emerging market of America.
I know, I know. It's sick. But as I said, the time to complain was when the likes of Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyantook over Man City or Roman Abramovitch, Chelsea or Stanley Kroenke, Arsenal. For years "supporters" of these clubs were perfectly happy to put up with these owners so long as the glory glory of glittering trophies were delivered.
But these people are huge business operators. They know that there's a massive global market to tap for money and, I know it's shit, but your average fan wandering up the Seven Sisters road doesn't matter so much to them.
You will never hear a bad word said about Khun Top or his late father at Leicester City. Best owners that we have ever had, and very respectful of the fans and traditions too.
Though it probably is the rise of Leicester (and the others like West Ham, and Wolves last season) that is behind this Super League. If we hadn't won the title, and then followed it up by consolidating a top 6 position, and probably Top 4, then the hegemony of the six would have stood. Teams like Arsenal and Spurs know that they have been eclipsed. That is how football should be, and they don't like it.
Yes exactly. You only have to look into the past. Leeds. Forest. Derby. Times change. And so they should because football, bloody hell.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
Try telling that to any team that’s been in the same league as Salford. Neville can be outspoken as this goes against Sky in every way.
Klopp had to be brave but he wasn’t. My whatsapp group of various football league supporters feels let down by his words. Perhaps armchair Liverpool fans are more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Opinions and all that.
Klopp was brave. He was very clear.
"Jurgen in the past you said you oppose the idea of a Super League, have your thoughts changed" "My thoughts have not changed . . . I like the competitive nature of the Champions League, I like that West Ham could play Champions League . . . we want to qualify for the Champions League . . . the boys didn't do anything wrong, I really want to make sure everybody knows that".
He's crystal clear. Unless you expect him to take a dump on Anfield and walk out, I'm not sure what more you expect.
You must be a Liverpool fan. Crystal clear he definitely was not. Absolutely nothing but his bank balance stopping him from saying what all proper fans are thinking. No need to mince your words when there’s a power grab going on. He could easily walk into a bigger job in Germany if he wanted.
Hopefully his conscience will awaken in the coming days.
No, if I was there I'd make sure the ire is focussed solely on FSG.
You guys were piping yourselves off over FSG not that long ago when we were discussing Saudi ownership of NUFC.
Funny old world.
FSG are good owners, they have just screwed up here because they don't understand the English game in the way we do. They come from a country where relegation is an alien concept, not a beloved fundamental strength of football.
That's why its good to have respected people like Klopp on side and not walking away. They can help talk them owners back down and into some acceptable compromise.
You're just showing your arrogance again.
There is absolutely nothing to compromise on.
So there's nothing whatsoever wrong with UEFA? Nothing in the slightest? 🤔
You're just showing your naivety if you really believe that.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
Can you provide a breakdown of how UEFA splits TV money? You're clearly an expert. What part of it do you object to?
My biggest criticism of UEFA's distribution of money is that they've enabled clubs like BATE Borizov to dominate their domestic leagues.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
But whilst the trophies were coming in how many Liverpool fans complained about John W. Henry? Or Man City fans about Sheikh Mansour? Or Chelsea fans about Abramovitch? Or you during the good times at Arsenal? Did you moan in 2007 when Stan Kroenke and Alisher Usmanov took charge of your club? Or did you just relish those FA Cups which added to your full cabinet? Were you there when they lifted The Cup in 2014, 2015, 2017 and 2020? Etc. etc.
I would call it hypocrisy by the fans but it's more naivety. These fans were happy whilst they made massive signings and lifted trophies but they didn't realise that it was going to come at a big big price. This is it. Today. Welcome to the Brave New World of global football.
I had this discussion with a Man City fan friend whom I've known for many years. Once they were a middling to good club, rooted and with a proper fan base. Then came the takeover. I tried to tell my friend that it was going to come at a price, that all that money wasn't going to be for free, that one day they'd pay the price. He thought I had sour grapes. But today is the logical conclusion of what happened in football many years ago.
I agree.
The rampant stratification in the game over countless seasons has gone totally unchecked. In most of the major national leagues in Europe this leaves one, or maybe a couple, of "superclubs". In England the success has been broader and has made much of the top 10 effectively close to European superclubs in sheer financial terms, but even there the stratification in success terms is ridiculous.
Between them all these clubs hog the money, power, league and Champion's League glory. It isn't quite a closed shop already but it's nowhere near as far from it as people would like to make out.
But that was all fine until yesterday because that was all happily sanctioned by the existing power structures.
Has PB really just spent the whole day arguing about a few football clubs and whether our PM is morbidly obese or just a fat git?
Yes and more days the same
Well, at least that makes the impossibility of labouring under the absurd restrictions demanded by our retarded lords and masters at the DfE seem less onerous.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
So was founding the Premier League itself and there's nothing wrong with that at all, so long as it is sporting.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
So was founding the Premier League itself and there's nothing wrong with that at all, so long as it is sporting.
But it ISN'T sporting. They don't want sporting. They want guaranteed income and minimal or zero risk.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
But whilst the trophies were coming in how many Liverpool fans complained about John W. Henry? Or Man City fans about Sheikh Mansour? Or Chelsea fans about Abramovitch? Or you during the good times at Arsenal? Did you moan in 2007 when Stan Kroenke and Alisher Usmanov took charge of your club? Or did you just relish those FA Cups which added to your full cabinet? Were you there when they lifted The Cup in 2014, 2015, 2017 and 2020? Etc. etc.
I would call it hypocrisy by the fans but it's more naivety. These fans were happy whilst they made massive signings and lifted trophies but they didn't realise that it was going to come at a big big price. This is it. Today. Welcome to the Brave New World of global football.
I had this discussion with a Man City fan friend whom I've known for many years. Once they were a middling to good club, rooted and with a proper fan base. Then came the takeover. I tried to tell my friend that it was going to come at a price, that all that money wasn't going to be for free, that one day they'd pay the price. He thought I had sour grapes. But today is the logical conclusion of what happened in football many years ago.
I agree.
The rampant stratification in the game over countless seasons has gone totally unchecked. In most of the major national leagues in Europe this leaves one, or maybe a couple, of "superclubs". In England the success has been broader and has made much of the top 10 effectively close to European superclubs in sheer financial terms, but even there the stratification in success terms is ridiculous.
Between them all these clubs hog the money, power, league and Champion's League glory. It isn't quite a closed shop already but it's nowhere near as far from it as people would like to make out.
But that was all fine until yesterday because that was all happily sanctioned by the existing power structures.
That this is happening tells you that it isn't a closed shop. Agnelli has nightmares about Juve missing out on the Champions League.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
But whilst the trophies were coming in how many Liverpool fans complained about John W. Henry? Or Man City fans about Sheikh Mansour? Or Chelsea fans about Abramovitch? Or you during the good times at Arsenal? Did you moan in 2007 when Stan Kroenke and Alisher Usmanov took charge of your club? Or did you just relish those FA Cups which added to your full cabinet? Were you there when they lifted The Cup in 2014, 2015, 2017 and 2020? Etc. etc.
I would call it hypocrisy by the fans but it's more naivety. These fans were happy whilst they made massive signings and lifted trophies but they didn't realise that it was going to come at a big big price. This is it. Today. Welcome to the Brave New World of global football.
I had this discussion with a Man City fan friend whom I've known for many years. Once they were a middling to good club, rooted and with a proper fan base. Then came the takeover. I tried to tell my friend that it was going to come at a price, that all that money wasn't going to be for free, that one day they'd pay the price. He thought I had sour grapes. But today is the logical conclusion of what happened in football many years ago.
Citeh are a literal franchise. If the fans in Manchester don't like the benevolence of the Sheikh he can always transfer the flag to New York. Or their other franchises. It is a global business not a football club in Manchester.
Incidentally @kinabalu Johnson is 5'9" and 14.5 stone isn't even obese for someone 5'9".
More than one in four British adults are obese. I would definitely count Johnson within that 1 in 4, wouldn't you?
17.5 not 14.5.
And he's five nine in his Cubans.
Yes I would think he was a liar if he said he was 14.5 stone at his heaviest. He was definitely obese at his heaviest and 14.5 stone is not obese.
17.5 stone is believable. 14.5 stone is not.
If by 14.5 stone you mean 14 stone and 7 lbs (which is 14 1/2 stone) then according to the NHS calculator that is officially obese. Just admittedly but it is never the less.
At 5'9" ?
I put that into the calculator and it came to BMI 29.0 which is not obese. 30+ is obese.
Johnson is at least 5'10" from what I've read.
I’ve met him twice. He is no way that tall.
Not doubting you, but when you look at photos of Johnson and Cameron together, Johnson looks about 2 inches shorter, and Cameron was supposed to be 6 feet tall.
I have no idea with Cameron, I’ve not met him. Boris is the only PM I have met (twice, prior to his being PM, both as mayor of London)
For what it’s worth (assuming you believe I’ve stood near them and why would you?) I think you’re right. I’m 5’ 9” - Cameron was noticeably taller than me. Boris is not. Nor is he noticeably shorter.
When Cammo had me round to number ten for drinks, he seems about my height, so six foot.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
Can you provide a breakdown of how UEFA splits TV money? You're clearly an expert. What part of it do you object to?
My biggest criticism of UEFA's distribution of money is that they've enabled clubs like BATE Borizov to dominate their domestic leagues.
Its in the public domain.
In 2018/19 the Champions League generates €3.25bn per annum of which Liverpool got €111mn for winning the competition. €2bn went to the clubs, €1.25bn did not.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
Klopp said as much as he could tonight, without being at serious risk of the sack in the morning.
The chairmen have put their cards on the table though, there’s no going back from today. Presumably the breakaway teams will be offering the managers serious extra money to stay involved, as they’ll be trashing their relationships with the fans and other potential future employers.
ED: what can UEFA, FIFA, the govt, or anyone actually do about it? Every expert he interviewed: nothing.
I made this point earlier. The BBC then suggested some spoiler actions that could be tried, such as declaring ESL games to be free to air. At which point Sky swing behind the 6 teams saying "hang on, don't go that far"
@Philip_Thompson reckons that the Super League is suddenly going to agree to relegation for all the "founding fathers" as a "compromise" and calls me naive. Lol.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
So was founding the Premier League itself and there's nothing wrong with that at all, so long as it is sporting.
But it ISN'T sporting. They don't want sporting. They want guaranteed income and minimal or zero risk.
A compromise that sees the clubs getting a better share of revenue, while not eliminating the competitive nature, is definitely in the realms of possibility.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
OK (and I agree- this is a threat designed to win concessions more than a real plan)... Where's the landing zone?
How much more money should the CL clubs get? How much more control of the competition? Critically- how far should the list of CL teams be stabilised (ahem) from year to year to make a product that's attractive to a global TV audience? The concept of (in effect) wildcards for established really big teams has already been swallowed, so how far should that go?
Fun fact- the club that had to make the most applications for re-election to the Football League, and was never actually relegated under those rules? Hartlepool.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
So was founding the Premier League itself and there's nothing wrong with that at all, so long as it is sporting.
But it ISN'T sporting. They don't want sporting. They want guaranteed income and minimal or zero risk.
A compromise that sees the clubs getting a better share of revenue, while not eliminating the competitive nature, is definitely in the realms of possibility.
@Philip_Thompson reckons that the Super League is suddenly going to agree to relegation for all the "founding fathers" as a "compromise" and calls me naive. Lol.
Maybe they will create European Super League 2 and relegate into that...!
The literal rock at the centre of this proposal is special entrenched treatment for the "founding fathers". If they wanted the Champions League sans UEFA they could have created the Champions League sans UEFA, but they didn't.
@Philip_Thompson reckons that the Super League is suddenly going to agree to relegation for all the "founding fathers" as a "compromise" and calls me naive. Lol.
Absolutely possible yes.
If that is what allows it to go ahead. Afterall if it was the same numbers but the Top 6 each year went into the competition rather than the Big 6 then they would qualify almost every year. They would remain much better off than they are with the Champions League, and they'd remain in the new competition almost every year, and they'd remain in the Premier League's good books and they'd win the fans back around. The "cost" of having to qualify isn't that major.
Or there could be a compromise that sees the clubs stay within UEFA but get a better share of the cash.
Or many other compromises. Opening positions very often get softened to get a real compromise when things go ahead.
Michael Gove is visiting Israel to study a COVID "green pass" smartphone app that could soon be the model for vaccine passports in the UK.
The Cabinet Office minister, in charge of a Whitehall study into how coronavirus certification might work in the UK, has been a big fan of the Israeli scheme for weeks.
He is being accompanied on his visit by Jonathan Van-Tam, England's deputy chief medical officer, who is hugely influential in the government's COVID strategy.
It is thought their visit involves meetings with Israel's health minister, Yuli Edelstein, and possibly with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, according to reports in Israel.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
OK (and I agree- this is a threat designed to win concessions more than a real plan)... Where's the landing zone?
How much more money should the CL clubs get? How much more control of the competition? Critically- how far should the list of CL teams be stabilised (ahem) from year to year to make a product that's attractive to a global TV audience? The concept of (in effect) wildcards for established really big teams has already been swallowed, so how far should that go?
Fun fact- the club that had to make the most applications for re-election to the Football League, and was never actually relegated under those rules? Hartlepool.
I disagree. They've crossed the line and there's no turning back. They've alienated a huge number of their own fans. I won't be going back to Arsenal, even if they back down.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
Can you provide a breakdown of how UEFA splits TV money? You're clearly an expert. What part of it do you object to?
My biggest criticism of UEFA's distribution of money is that they've enabled clubs like BATE Borizov to dominate their domestic leagues.
Its in the public domain.
In 2018/19 the Champions League generates €3.25bn per annum of which Liverpool got €111mn for winning the competition. €2bn went to the clubs, €1.25bn did not.
Is that including solidarity payments to associations missing out on the group stages?
The literal rock at the centre of this proposal is special entrenched treatment for the "founding fathers". If they wanted the Champions League sans UEFA they could have created the Champions League sans UEFA, but they didn't.
Change that aspect and I'd not be surprised if most people were in favour, and other clubs flock to it. It's not like people like UEFA. But it's indefensibly unfair as it stands, as it was the last time there was a proposal to treat specific clubs better than others even if they performed badly.
ED: what can UEFA, FIFA, the govt, or anyone actually do about it? Every expert he interviewed: nothing.
I made this point earlier. The BBC then suggested some spoiler actions that could be tried, such as declaring ESL games to be free to air. At which point Sky swing behind the 6 teams saying "hang on, don't go that far"
Which takes us back to Oliver Dowden's impressive performance in Parliament today. Impressive, but very much stage 3 of "hammer the facts, hammer the law, hammer the table."
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Both sides have a point. The great clubs ARE a worldwide brand - Barca, Man U, Real, Bayern, Liverpool
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
Michael Gove is visiting Israel to study a COVID "green pass" smartphone app that could soon be the model for vaccine passports in the UK.
The Cabinet Office minister, in charge of a Whitehall study into how coronavirus certification might work in the UK, has been a big fan of the Israeli scheme for weeks.
He is being accompanied on his visit by Jonathan Van-Tam, England's deputy chief medical officer, who is hugely influential in the government's COVID strategy.
It is thought their visit involves meetings with Israel's health minister, Yuli Edelstein, and possibly with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, according to reports in Israel.
The Portuguese PM comes out against the Super League:
"@antoniocostapm A proposta de uma competição de futebol no espaço Europeu organizada fora das instituições representativas do setor, nomeadamente as Ligas, as Federações e a @UEFA, tem de ser recusada sem nenhuma hesitação."
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Both sides have a point. The great clubs ARE a worldwide brand - Barca, Man U, Real, Bayern, Liverpool
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
They don't deserve more of the spoils by virtue of being THEM. You can argue for more spoils going to the most successful clubs, whoever they may be in a particular season, but not specific entrenched clubs.
ED: what can UEFA, FIFA, the govt, or anyone actually do about it? Every expert he interviewed: nothing.
I made this point earlier. The BBC then suggested some spoiler actions that could be tried, such as declaring ESL games to be free to air. At which point Sky swing behind the 6 teams saying "hang on, don't go that far"
FWIW my expectation is that a compromise will be made.
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
Michael Gove is visiting Israel to study a COVID "green pass" smartphone app that could soon be the model for vaccine passports in the UK.
The Cabinet Office minister, in charge of a Whitehall study into how coronavirus certification might work in the UK, has been a big fan of the Israeli scheme for weeks.
He is being accompanied on his visit by Jonathan Van-Tam, England's deputy chief medical officer, who is hugely influential in the government's COVID strategy.
It is thought their visit involves meetings with Israel's health minister, Yuli Edelstein, and possibly with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, according to reports in Israel.
FWIW my expectation is that a compromise will be made.
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
The 6 English clubs seem to think that the football world revolves around them and that supporters will just moan for a week and then just accept this football non-competition.
If the 6 clubs think the supporters will just put up with this crap then they’re clearly delusional !
I know this bit is going to make you fume but they apparently see people like you and me as 'legacy fans' (a phrase which emerged this morning).
The big bosses don't particularly care about us. They're after the millions of fans around the world in places like Asia and the emerging market of America.
I know, I know. It's sick. But as I said, the time to complain was when the likes of Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyantook over Man City or Roman Abramovitch, Chelsea or Stanley Kroenke, Arsenal. For years "supporters" of these clubs were perfectly happy to put up with these owners so long as the glory glory of glittering trophies were delivered.
But these people are huge business operators. They know that there's a massive global market to tap for money and, I know it's shit, but your average fan wandering up the Seven Sisters road doesn't matter so much to them.
You will never hear a bad word said about Khun Top or his late father at Leicester City. Best owners that we have ever had, and very respectful of the fans and traditions too.
Though it probably is the rise of Leicester (and the others like West Ham, and Wolves last season) that is behind this Super League. If we hadn't won the title, and then followed it up by consolidating a top 6 position, and probably Top 4, then the hegemony of the six would have stood. Teams like Arsenal and Spurs know that they have been eclipsed. That is how football should be, and they don't like it.
Yes exactly. You only have to look into the past. Leeds. Forest. Derby. Times change. And so they should because football, bloody hell.
I would gently point out that it's not just in football that times change. It's most sports. I think, for example, there have been no more than four teams who have been in English rugby union's top flight every season since its inception. What these teams are trying to do is rig the game so they always win. Indeed, that's what they've been trying to do for the last thirty years.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Both sides have a point. The great clubs ARE a worldwide brand - Barca, Man U, Real, Bayern, Liverpool
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
They’re not the ‘great’ clubs they’re just the most ‘supported’ and richest clubs. My local semi pro side is older than all the big 6 and has a varied history without ever feeling the need to sell out its regular 400 fans.
FWIW my expectation is that a compromise will be made.
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
You think that would end this argument?!
I assume by "a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position" he means that Liverpool should qualify every year regardless...
FWIW my expectation is that a compromise will be made.
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
You think that would end this argument?!
Yes, until the next media rights for the CL auction.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
So was founding the Premier League itself and there's nothing wrong with that at all, so long as it is sporting.
But it ISN'T sporting. They don't want sporting. They want guaranteed income and minimal or zero risk.
A compromise that sees the clubs getting a better share of revenue, while not eliminating the competitive nature, is definitely in the realms of possibility.
FWIW my expectation is that a compromise will be made.
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
The automatic qualifies could be clubs which were previous winners during the last decade or three.
Rather like how golfers who have won a tournament get an automatic invite even when they get crap or old.
FWIW my expectation is that a compromise will be made.
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
You think that would end this argument?!
I assume by "a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position" he means that Liverpool should qualify every year regardless...
That's obviously objectionable, but the weekend thing is even more so. The dirty dozen clearly understand that the domestic leagues have some value to them. That's why they're happy to play their league midweek.
If UEFA tried to nab weekends, well, then it would be all out war.
FWIW my expectation is that a compromise will be made.
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
You think that would end this argument?!
I assume by "a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position" he means that Liverpool should qualify every year regardless...
No, I like the current situation where the league position determines if you qualify for next season's CL.
I'm fine for the exception that exists that the CL winner qualifies for next season's CL if they don't qualify via the league, ditto the winner of the Europa League.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Both sides have a point. The great clubs ARE a worldwide brand - Barca, Man U, Real, Bayern, Liverpool
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
They don't deserve more of the spoils by virtue of being THEM. You can argue for more spoils going to the most successful clubs, whoever they may be in a particular season, but not specific entrenched clubs.
Yes. Entirely so
What most sticks in the craw is the self selected Founding Fathers (OMFG) who will be the richest clubs for the rest of time and can never be demoted.
Anyone who has ever followed football in any way finds that loathsome. I used to be a passionate football fan (going to my hometown Division 3 reserve matches!), now I tune in for occasional EPL games, UCL big nights, and the World Cup/euros
But I understand the importance of a fluid system as against a terrible entrenched football aristocracy, where every lesser club is deemed an untouchable, which shall never rise above its proper lowly status
Incidentally @kinabalu Johnson is 5'9" and 14.5 stone isn't even obese for someone 5'9".
More than one in four British adults are obese. I would definitely count Johnson within that 1 in 4, wouldn't you?
17.5 not 14.5.
And he's five nine in his Cubans.
Yes I would think he was a liar if he said he was 14.5 stone at his heaviest. He was definitely obese at his heaviest and 14.5 stone is not obese.
17.5 stone is believable. 14.5 stone is not.
If by 14.5 stone you mean 14 stone and 7 lbs (which is 14 1/2 stone) then according to the NHS calculator that is officially obese. Just admittedly but it is never the less.
At 5'9" ?
I put that into the calculator and it came to BMI 29.0 which is not obese. 30+ is obese.
Johnson is at least 5'10" from what I've read.
lol.
Nice one.
Perhaps if Johnson had better posture, and not the round shouldered, stooping Churchillian gait, he might actually be the 6ft 4", his fanbois on PB desire.
FWIW my expectation is that a compromise will be made.
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
You think that would end this argument?!
I assume by "a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position" he means that Liverpool should qualify every year regardless...
That's obviously objectionable, but the weekend thing is even more so. The dirty dozen clearly understand that the domestic leagues have some value to them. That's why they're happy to play their league midweek.
If UEFA tried to nab weekends, well, then it would be all out war.
The bunfight over playing weekends for the CL ended when Platini got into trouble.
Interesting that the LibDems hsve picked up a bit.after a long period deep in the doldrums. Getting some reward for making dubious noises on lockdown, or just more visible as there are elections going on?
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
OK (and I agree- this is a threat designed to win concessions more than a real plan)... Where's the landing zone?
How much more money should the CL clubs get? How much more control of the competition? Critically- how far should the list of CL teams be stabilised (ahem) from year to year to make a product that's attractive to a global TV audience? The concept of (in effect) wildcards for established really big teams has already been swallowed, so how far should that go?
Fun fact- the club that had to make the most applications for re-election to the Football League, and was never actually relegated under those rules? Hartlepool.
I must be one of the few people left alive who saw them beaten 10-1 - a scoreline that flattered them.
FWIW my expectation is that a compromise will be made.
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
The automatic qualifies could be clubs which were previous winners during the last decade or three.
Rather like how golfers who have won a tournament get an automatic invite even when they get crap or old.
To be honest, I'd have no problem if we were inviting, say, early 80s Liverpool even though they are now crap and old. Let's get Jan Molby and Graeme Sounness out of retirement. That'll learn 'em.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Both sides have a point. The great clubs ARE a worldwide brand - Barca, Man U, Real, Bayern, Liverpool
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
They don't deserve more of the spoils by virtue of being THEM. You can argue for more spoils going to the most successful clubs, whoever they may be in a particular season, but not specific entrenched clubs.
Just have one enormously large supra-national European superleague that constitutes all leagues in all countries, so that every 14.7 years the famous Forfar Athletic - Real Madrid derby comes round again.
Michael Gove is visiting Israel to study a COVID "green pass" smartphone app that could soon be the model for vaccine passports in the UK.
The Cabinet Office minister, in charge of a Whitehall study into how coronavirus certification might work in the UK, has been a big fan of the Israeli scheme for weeks.
He is being accompanied on his visit by Jonathan Van-Tam, England's deputy chief medical officer, who is hugely influential in the government's COVID strategy.
It is thought their visit involves meetings with Israel's health minister, Yuli Edelstein, and possibly with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, according to reports in Israel.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Both sides have a point. The great clubs ARE a worldwide brand - Barca, Man U, Real, Bayern, Liverpool
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
They don't deserve more of the spoils by virtue of being THEM. You can argue for more spoils going to the most successful clubs, whoever they may be in a particular season, but not specific entrenched clubs.
Chris Williams @Chris78Williams NEW: A further UEFA mtg will now take place within the next 24 hours. There will be a motion to formally expel Arsenal and Manchester United from the #UEL and Man City, Chelsea and Real Madrid from the #UCL - meeting will also decide how the competitions will be completed.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
Good words from Boris. I hope when these wretched clubs come crawling back to the Premier League they’re slapped with a 30 point deduction at the very least.
FWIW my expectation is that a compromise will be made.
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
The automatic qualifies could be clubs which were previous winners during the last decade or three.
Rather like how golfers who have won a tournament get an automatic invite even when they get crap or old.
The trick is going to be to define a mechanism which means that the Arsenals of the world reliably qualify and get reliably enormous sums of money every year without making it too blatant. There must be a set of UEFA coefficients that will do that.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
Can you provide a breakdown of how UEFA splits TV money? You're clearly an expert. What part of it do you object to?
My biggest criticism of UEFA's distribution of money is that they've enabled clubs like BATE Borizov to dominate their domestic leagues.
Its in the public domain.
In 2018/19 the Champions League generates €3.25bn per annum of which Liverpool got €111mn for winning the competition. €2bn went to the clubs, €1.25bn did not.
Remember that EUFA also sells the rights to the European Championships.
Where do the EUFA billions go? Not into football, that's for sure.
Comments
That's as transparent as a pane of glass.
Funny old world.
I would call it hypocrisy by the fans but it's more naivety. These fans were happy whilst they made massive signings and lifted trophies but they didn't realise that it was going to come at a big big price. This is it. Today. Welcome to the Brave New World of global football.
I had this discussion with a Man City fan friend whom I've known for many years. Once they were a middling to good club, rooted and with a proper fan base. Then came the takeover. I tried to tell my friend that it was going to come at a price, that all that money wasn't going to be for free, that one day they'd pay the price. He thought I had sour grapes. But today is the logical conclusion of what happened in football many years ago.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
Did Chelsea ever get their money from Mutu?
I still maintain that FSG have been great owners of Liverpool, they have built a self sustaining club, this proposal has the potential over ruining a decade's worth of good work.
Though it probably is the rise of Leicester (and the others like West Ham, and Wolves last season) that is behind this Super League. If we hadn't won the title, and then followed it up by consolidating a top 6 position, and probably Top 4, then the hegemony of the six would have stood. Teams like Arsenal and
Spurs know that they have been eclipsed. That is how football should be, and they don't like it.
That's why its good to have respected people like Klopp on side and not walking away. They can help talk them owners back down and into some acceptable compromise.
[To any libel lawyers reading, this is a joke not an accusation.]
There is absolutely nothing to compromise on.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
I don't really care who owns a football club. The competition is sacred. There is nothing hypocritical about this.
Anyway, if the owners of these clubs want to do this, let them. I still expect it to come crashing down and with a bit of luck the owners will lose their shirts.
Hopefully his conscience will awaken in the coming days.
You're just showing your naivety if you really believe that.
But such is the relationship Klopp has with the fans that the fans will do something different but something that keeps the pressure on FSG.
I suspect we'll see banners outside Anfield saying 'We agree with Klopp.'
No one will discuss the football or Boris Johnson's girth on that thread.
My biggest criticism of UEFA's distribution of money is that they've enabled clubs like BATE Borizov to dominate their domestic leagues.
The rampant stratification in the game over countless seasons has gone totally unchecked. In most of the major national leagues in Europe this leaves one, or maybe a couple, of "superclubs". In England the success has been broader and has made much of the top 10 effectively close to European superclubs in sheer financial terms, but even there the stratification in success terms is ridiculous.
Between them all these clubs hog the money, power, league and Champion's League glory. It isn't quite a closed shop already but it's nowhere near as far from it as people would like to make out.
But that was all fine until yesterday because that was all happily sanctioned by the existing power structures.
A bunch of men comparing the size of their Johnsons.
ED: what can UEFA, FIFA, the govt, or anyone actually do about it?
Every expert he interviewed: nothing.
In 2018/19 the Champions League generates €3.25bn per annum of which Liverpool got €111mn for winning the competition. €2bn went to the clubs, €1.25bn did not.
The chairmen have put their cards on the table though, there’s no going back from today. Presumably the breakaway teams will be offering the managers serious extra money to stay involved, as they’ll be trashing their relationships with the fans and other potential future employers.
Liverpool in the lead BTW.
How much more money should the CL clubs get?
How much more control of the competition?
Critically- how far should the list of CL teams be stabilised (ahem) from year to year to make a product that's attractive to a global TV audience? The concept of (in effect) wildcards for established really big teams has already been swallowed, so how far should that go?
Fun fact- the club that had to make the most applications for re-election to the Football League, and was never actually relegated under those rules? Hartlepool.
If that is what allows it to go ahead. Afterall if it was the same numbers but the Top 6 each year went into the competition rather than the Big 6 then they would qualify almost every year. They would remain much better off than they are with the Champions League, and they'd remain in the new competition almost every year, and they'd remain in the Premier League's good books and they'd win the fans back around. The "cost" of having to qualify isn't that major.
Or there could be a compromise that sees the clubs stay within UEFA but get a better share of the cash.
Or many other compromises. Opening positions very often get softened to get a real compromise when things go ahead.
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
"@antoniocostapm
A proposta de uma competição de futebol no espaço Europeu organizada fora das instituições representativas do setor, nomeadamente as Ligas, as Federações e a @UEFA, tem de ser recusada sem nenhuma hesitação."
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
https://covid.joinzoe.com/data
What these teams are trying to do is rig the game so they always win. Indeed, that's what they've been trying to do for the last thirty years.
Rather like how golfers who have won a tournament get an automatic invite even when they get crap or old.
If UEFA tried to nab weekends, well, then it would be all out war.
I'm fine for the exception that exists that the CL winner qualifies for next season's CL if they don't qualify via the league, ditto the winner of the Europa League.
What most sticks in the craw is the self selected Founding Fathers (OMFG) who will be the richest clubs for the rest of time and can never be demoted.
Anyone who has ever followed football in any way finds that loathsome. I used to be a passionate football fan (going to my hometown Division 3 reserve matches!), now I tune in for occasional EPL games, UCL big nights, and the World Cup/euros
But I understand the importance of a fluid system as against a terrible entrenched football aristocracy, where every lesser club is deemed an untouchable, which shall never rise above its proper lowly status
UGH
Bozza speaks directly to the red wall
But it is going to rear its head soon.
@Chris78Williams
NEW: A further UEFA mtg will now take place within the next 24 hours. There will be a motion to formally expel Arsenal and Manchester United from the #UEL and Man City, Chelsea and Real Madrid from the #UCL - meeting will also decide how the competitions will be completed.
https://twitter.com/Chris78Williams/status/1384193081746984961
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re4aDJL3heA
Where do the EUFA billions go? Not into football, that's for sure.