Incidentally @kinabalu Johnson is 5'9" and 14.5 stone isn't even obese for someone 5'9".
More than one in four British adults are obese. I would definitely count Johnson within that 1 in 4, wouldn't you?
17.5 not 14.5.
And he's five nine in his Cubans.
Yes I would think he was a liar if he said he was 14.5 stone at his heaviest. He was definitely obese at his heaviest and 14.5 stone is not obese.
17.5 stone is believable. 14.5 stone is not.
If by 14.5 stone you mean 14 stone and 7 lbs (which is 14 1/2 stone) then according to the NHS calculator that is officially obese. Just admittedly but it is never the less.
At 5'9" ?
I put that into the calculator and it came to BMI 29.0 which is not obese. 30+ is obese.
Johnson is at least 5'10" from what I've read.
I’ve met him twice. He is no way that tall.
Not doubting you, but when you look at photos of Johnson and Cameron together, Johnson looks about 2 inches shorter, and Cameron was supposed to be 6 feet tall.
I have no idea with Cameron, I’ve not met him. Boris is the only PM I have met (twice, prior to his being PM, both as mayor of London)
For what it’s worth (assuming you believe I’ve stood near them and why would you?) I think you’re right. I’m 5’ 9” - Cameron was noticeably taller than me. Boris is not. Nor is he noticeably shorter.
When Cammo had me round to number ten for drinks, he seems about my height, so six foot.
He was smaller than that when he came round to my gaffe 😉
I found it difficult to judge his height, when he was polishing my shoes.
All those worried about being tarred withe being fans of an ESL team or generally a glory hunter, it could be worse.
I'm from Stoke, but been a fan of Crewe Alex since a small child, attracted by the free flowing football and the incredible youth production line of exciting talent...now I am a fan of a club most famous for hiring and it appears at best being blind to one of the worst paedos on record, as he abused scores of kids.coming through the system.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Its wrong to assume people are glory hunters though. Often people have a familial or other connection.
I'm from Merseyside originally and have always supported Tranmere and Liverpool as a result. All my family supports Tranmere and Liverpool or Tranmere and Everton.
I've since moved away from Merseyside but not changed my clubs, why should I?
My daughters have never lived in Merseyside but support "Livempool" as my youngest calls them because they're "daddy's team". They don't often see me watching Tranmere on TV as they're very rarely televised, and if they are its normally midweek after their bedtime anyway.
I always find it strange when somebody supports the team from the city where they went to University. Like, what were you doing for the previous 18 years?
Maybe because its the first city you live in by choice ? Its not compulsory to support a football team as a youth or indeed a adult. In fact i am not sure its that healthy to be to engrained with a football team . i say i cannot really like my town where I grew up with to any great extent (Mansfield) and preferred where I choose to live in adulthood
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Wasn't really an option for me.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
Don’t see how it’s not an option, but the alternative to not supporting your hometown team shouldn’t just be supporting a team because they’re on the tv loads and win trophies.
Not all "home towns" have a football club for starters.
Warrington hasn't got a professional football club, but is sandwiched between Liverpool and Manchester so roughly half the town support Liverpool and roughly half support Manchester, with everyone supporting the Wire for the Rugby.
We really need betting odds on how many threads from yesterday onwards are going to be discussing nothing but football.
To be fair, room has also been made for vital discussion of the Girther Conspiracy concerning the PM’s true BMI. Spread bets on the extent of Boris' middle-aged spread will be available...
And other posters are right. It is oddly nice, even for non-fans like me, for something as bloody normal as football to be the main topic of the day.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Its wrong to assume people are glory hunters though. Often people have a familial or other connection.
I'm from Merseyside originally and have always supported Tranmere and Liverpool as a result. All my family supports Tranmere and Liverpool or Tranmere and Everton.
I've since moved away from Merseyside but not changed my clubs, why should I?
My daughters have never lived in Merseyside but support "Livempool" as my youngest calls them because they're "daddy's team". They don't often see me watching Tranmere on TV as they're very rarely televised, and if they are its normally midweek after their bedtime anyway.
I don't often assume, usually a friendly, 'how'd you come to start supporting them?' 'planning on going to a game soon?' (in non-covid times) is enough to get a very good clue.
Yes, some people do have familial connections, and occasionally they are genuine (in the past couple of years, a lot of people I know seem to have discovered that their great granduncle once nicked the hubcaps off a car near Liverpool). I have no problem with people supporting a team from where they grew up, or even where their parent grew up if they attend matches occasionally.
I should mention that the bulk of my opprobrium is reserved for those that flit between direct competitors (such as an acquaintance who has discovered that three of his four grandparents supported Man U, Man City, and Liverpool, which apparently gives him the right to support whichever one is dominant at the time).
Yeah that's wrong. People should support their clubs through thick and thin.
If someone supports their club when they're losing, then they're not a glory hunter even if they're not local. Liverpool maintained fans all around the country, all around the world, even when there was three decades between titles. People who remained Liverpool all that time aren't glory hunters.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Its wrong to assume people are glory hunters though. Often people have a familial or other connection.
I'm from Merseyside originally and have always supported Tranmere and Liverpool as a result. All my family supports Tranmere and Liverpool or Tranmere and Everton.
I've since moved away from Merseyside but not changed my clubs, why should I?
My daughters have never lived in Merseyside but support "Livempool" as my youngest calls them because they're "daddy's team". They don't often see me watching Tranmere on TV as they're very rarely televised, and if they are its normally midweek after their bedtime anyway.
I always find it strange when somebody supports the team from the city where they went to University. Like, what were you doing for the previous 18 years?
It is always very funny - I spent my university years wishing for my uni city's team to get relegated. Would have made it the world's easiest away day for myself!
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Yes, absolutely. Plastics and glory hunters are the worst part of football. Being a Spurs supporter has given me some of the worst moments of my existence and some of the most exhilarating (beating Man City in the champion's league, for example). But win or lose I was there with my dad at almost every home game over the last 6 seasons pre lockdown. Now we're both done. This is ruining football, it's literally a league for plastics and glory hunters who don't care about what happens on the pitch but just want to say they support the biggest club.
Yep, the Super League isn't meant for the English 'legacy' fans, as JP Morgan put it, but for the new Asian and American plastics.
I am quite certain that our 2005-06 106 point season, followed up by coming 1 point off of Europe in our first ever Premier League Campaign provided me with far more joy and happy memories than any glory supporter has ever felt because of football.
Might start going to watch Reading when fans are allowed back, although parking is a bit of a pain at the Mad Stad.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
Can you provide a breakdown of how UEFA splits TV money? You're clearly an expert. What part of it do you object to?
My biggest criticism of UEFA's distribution of money is that they've enabled clubs like BATE Borizov to dominate their domestic leagues.
Its in the public domain.
In 2018/19 the Champions League generates €3.25bn per annum of which Liverpool got €111mn for winning the competition. €2bn went to the clubs, €1.25bn did not.
Remember that EUFA also sells the rights to the European Championships.
Where do the EUFA billions go? Not into football, that's for sure.
Before I go, what a week for Chuka Umunna to be starting his new job at JP Morgan
"I’m delighted to be starting at J.P. Morgan today as a Managing Director and Head of ESG across the bank’s operations in Europe, the Middle East and Africa (EMEA). In this role I will be co-ordinating and integrating JP Morgan’s ESG strategy across the EMEA region, and helping the bank and its clients to incorporate environmental, social and governance factors (ESG) into their operations and businesses, enhancing long term value."
Should help Chuka build his City credentials with the Tory Remain voters he needs to win Cities of London and Westminster, in 2019 he was just 3,953 votes behind the winning Tory candidate Nickie Aiken and it is now the 14th top LD target seat for the 2024 general election
Seems from the (non) job title that JP Morgan have some hopes of a return to some sort of political career for Ummuna.
It's not a non-job title. I mean it is, obviously, but ESG is currently one of the top - possibly the top - issues for investment managers right now. The concept has gone absolutely ballistic over the past year or so.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Wasn't really an option for me.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
Don’t see how it’s not an option, but the alternative to not supporting your hometown team shouldn’t just be supporting a team because they’re on the tv loads and win trophies.
Not all "home towns" have a football club for starters.
Warrington hasn't got a professional football club, but is sandwiched between Liverpool and Manchester so roughly half the town support Liverpool and roughly half support Manchester, with everyone supporting the Wire for the Rugby.
Why do you have to support a professional team? My team wasn’t when I supported them. Warrington Town have a small and dedicated fanbase too.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Wasn't really an option for me.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
Why not an option? In Sheffield, you even have a choice!
I'm a child of the 80s.
80s football support was plagued with violence, hooliganism, and racism.
So my father never took me to any football matches because of those, so the only football I could see was on TV, in those days there were about 20 matches live a season, and Liverpool featured in about 19 of them. Sheffields Wednesday and United were not on TV.
As a four year old they became my team because my father followed them to an extent.
A noble excuse but I wasn’t taken to the football either as a kid except England. There’s plenty of children of the 80s who have managed to support their local side. Wolves have got a massive Asian fanbase for example.
The irony of supposedly having to support a football team where you grew up in is high in an era where a premier league club is unlikely to have any footballers from that home city or indeed the manager or owner .Most of which will not even by from the UK never mind the city itself.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Wasn't really an option for me.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
Why not an option? In Sheffield, you even have a choice!
I'm a child of the 80s.
80s football support was plagued with violence, hooliganism, and racism.
So my father never took me to any football matches because of those, so the only football I could see was on TV, in those days there were about 20 matches live a season, and Liverpool featured in about 19 of them. Sheffields Wednesday and United were not on TV.
As a four year old they became my team because my father followed them to an extent.
A noble excuse but I wasn’t taken to the football either as a kid except England. There’s plenty of children of the 80s who have managed to support their local side. Wolves have got a massive Asian fanbase for example.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Wasn't really an option for me.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
Don’t see how it’s not an option, but the alternative to not supporting your hometown team shouldn’t just be supporting a team because they’re on the tv loads and win trophies.
Not all "home towns" have a football club for starters.
Warrington hasn't got a professional football club, but is sandwiched between Liverpool and Manchester so roughly half the town support Liverpool and roughly half support Manchester, with everyone supporting the Wire for the Rugby.
Why do you have to support a professional team? My team wasn’t when I supported them. Warrington Town have a small and dedicated fanbase too.
Indeed they do, though you'll find that many of that small and dedicated fanbase still support a professional club as well as the amateur one. Just as I am capable of supporting Tranmere and Liverpool.
When clubs are in completely different leagues its entirely possible to support more than one. There's no clash for me between supporting Rovers for League Two (which I still think should be called the Fourth Division) and Liverpool for the Premier League.
Yep, I didn’t see anything wrong with his interview. Wondering if maybe some had a grudge against him prior to tonight and saw this interview as an opportunity to be critical? I know Klopp’s political views don’t exactly align with this site.
This whole thread is odd. From the Klopp takes, to people analysing the weight of Boris. I mean of all the things to be concerned about in regard to Boris....
Then again, from a brief look at previous threads some people’s first thoughts appear to have been how this ESL impacts the political fortunes of the Tories which, well....wasn’t my first thought, as an Arsenal fan, when I saw the news. So my whole way of thinking is completely out of sync with the last few threads.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Its wrong to assume people are glory hunters though. Often people have a familial or other connection.
I'm from Merseyside originally and have always supported Tranmere and Liverpool as a result. All my family supports Tranmere and Liverpool or Tranmere and Everton.
I've since moved away from Merseyside but not changed my clubs, why should I?
My daughters have never lived in Merseyside but support "Livempool" as my youngest calls them because they're "daddy's team". They don't often see me watching Tranmere on TV as they're very rarely televised, and if they are its normally midweek after their bedtime anyway.
I always find it strange when somebody supports the team from the city where they went to University. Like, what were you doing for the previous 18 years?
I suppose some people arrive at university from small towns like Truro or Bishop Auckland and, dependent on public transport, the possibility of *big* football only then becomes available. In those circumstances, I can see why they'd make that decision. I had a friend from Leamington Spa who went to Sheffield University *because* he supported Sheffield Wednesday - though that was itself the result of the sort of arbitrary decision that only people from towns like Leamington Spa can make.
In all honesty, nowadays, I'm really not a fundamentalist about this. Support who you like, for whatever reason you like. Change teams, if you like. Why not? Though arbitrary reasons are more fun: An aquaintance of mine grew up in straitened circumstances in Morecambe. His Dad took him to buy his first football shirt at about the age of 11. Time to make a decision - Blackburn? Manchester United? Liverpool? Everton? "No, son, not that lot, choose one of these." He was guven a choice of the shirts in the 'reduced' bin. Based upon which, he became a firm Sheffield United fan, spending far more on journeys to Sheffield over the years than he saved by not buying the Blackburn shirt.
'My' team is Stockport, but I've not been for over 20 years. When we played lunchtime football at school - Man U fans v Man City fans - I always sided with the City fans: I always found something a bit morally suspect about supporting a team which won anyway - like cheering for the sun to come up in the morning. But nowadays - since there is currently little tension between supporting Stockport and supporting the Manchester teams - I have managed to convince myself to grow up enough to be pleased when any Manchester team does well. I also get a small amount of petty satisfaction that this attitude will annoy true fans (though I understand in the 60s people would think nothing of supporting both).
James Milner: “We have to try and be professional and control what we can control. First we heard of it yesterday. There’s a lot of questions. I don’t like it (the Super League) and hopefully it doesn’t happen.”
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Its wrong to assume people are glory hunters though. Often people have a familial or other connection.
I'm from Merseyside originally and have always supported Tranmere and Liverpool as a result. All my family supports Tranmere and Liverpool or Tranmere and Everton.
I've since moved away from Merseyside but not changed my clubs, why should I?
My daughters have never lived in Merseyside but support "Livempool" as my youngest calls them because they're "daddy's team". They don't often see me watching Tranmere on TV as they're very rarely televised, and if they are its normally midweek after their bedtime anyway.
I don't often assume, usually a friendly, 'how'd you come to start supporting them?' 'planning on going to a game soon?' (in non-covid times) is enough to get a very good clue.
Yes, some people do have familial connections, and occasionally they are genuine (in the past couple of years, a lot of people I know seem to have discovered that their great granduncle once nicked the hubcaps off a car near Liverpool). I have no problem with people supporting a team from where they grew up, or even where their parent grew up if they attend matches occasionally.
I should mention that the bulk of my opprobrium is reserved for those that flit between direct competitors (such as an acquaintance who has discovered that three of his four grandparents supported Man U, Man City, and Liverpool, which apparently gives him the right to support whichever one is dominant at the time).
Yeah that's wrong. People should support their clubs through thick and thin.
If someone supports their club when they're losing, then they're not a glory hunter even if they're not local. Liverpool maintained fans all around the country, all around the world, even when there was three decades between titles. People who remained Liverpool all that time aren't glory hunters.
Yes, that is true.
I was born in Wigan, and moved to Leicester aged 25. I was never really interested in Football until Fox Jr went football mad aged 8.
I bought him a shirt and took him to some games. Next season we got season tickets, and have been hooked ever since, even in the dark days of relegation. It is only by sitting through the dross and defeat that the moments of beauty and triumph are properly appreciated.
FWIW my expectation is that a compromise will be made.
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
The automatic qualifies could be clubs which were previous winners during the last decade or three.
Rather like how golfers who have won a tournament get an automatic invite even when they get crap or old.
The trick is going to be to define a mechanism which means that the Arsenals of the world reliably qualify and get reliably enormous sums of money every year without making it too blatant. There must be a set of UEFA coefficients that will do that.
Is there a Spurs trophy cabinet? Buried under dust and cobwebs somewhere?
Ours was last seen on an episode of Antiques Roadshow.
I was 2 when we won the Fairs Cup. 52 years without a trophy.
Incidentally @kinabalu Johnson is 5'9" and 14.5 stone isn't even obese for someone 5'9".
More than one in four British adults are obese. I would definitely count Johnson within that 1 in 4, wouldn't you?
17.5 not 14.5.
And he's five nine in his Cubans.
Yes I would think he was a liar if he said he was 14.5 stone at his heaviest. He was definitely obese at his heaviest and 14.5 stone is not obese.
17.5 stone is believable. 14.5 stone is not.
If by 14.5 stone you mean 14 stone and 7 lbs (which is 14 1/2 stone) then according to the NHS calculator that is officially obese. Just admittedly but it is never the less.
At 5'9" ?
I put that into the calculator and it came to BMI 29.0 which is not obese. 30+ is obese.
Johnson is at least 5'10" from what I've read.
I’ve met him twice. He is no way that tall.
Not doubting you, but when you look at photos of Johnson and Cameron together, Johnson looks about 2 inches shorter, and Cameron was supposed to be 6 feet tall.
I have no idea with Cameron, I’ve not met him. Boris is the only PM I have met (twice, prior to his being PM, both as mayor of London)
For what it’s worth (assuming you believe I’ve stood near them and why would you?) I think you’re right. I’m 5’ 9” - Cameron was noticeably taller than me. Boris is not. Nor is he noticeably shorter.
When Cammo had me round to number ten for drinks, he seems about my height, so six foot.
A lot of six footers are actually five eleven. My father for example.
James Milner: “We have to try and be professional and control what we can control. First we heard of it yesterday. There’s a lot of questions. I don’t like it (the Super League) and hopefully it doesn’t happen.”
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Wasn't really an option for me.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
Why not an option? In Sheffield, you even have a choice!
I'm a child of the 80s.
80s football support was plagued with violence, hooliganism, and racism.
So my father never took me to any football matches because of those, so the only football I could see was on TV, in those days there were about 20 matches live a season, and Liverpool featured in about 19 of them. Sheffields Wednesday and United were not on TV.
As a four year old they became my team because my father followed them to an extent.
A noble excuse but I wasn’t taken to the football either as a kid except England. There’s plenty of children of the 80s who have managed to support their local side. Wolves have got a massive Asian fanbase for example.
You seem obsessed.
I’m no more obsessed than you lack self awareness. Some of us have contributed more to the modern failings of the game than others. It’s absolutely right that those that love the game stand up to this nonsense.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Its wrong to assume people are glory hunters though. Often people have a familial or other connection.
I'm from Merseyside originally and have always supported Tranmere and Liverpool as a result. All my family supports Tranmere and Liverpool or Tranmere and Everton.
I've since moved away from Merseyside but not changed my clubs, why should I?
My daughters have never lived in Merseyside but support "Livempool" as my youngest calls them because they're "daddy's team". They don't often see me watching Tranmere on TV as they're very rarely televised, and if they are its normally midweek after their bedtime anyway.
I don't often assume, usually a friendly, 'how'd you come to start supporting them?' 'planning on going to a game soon?' (in non-covid times) is enough to get a very good clue.
Yes, some people do have familial connections, and occasionally they are genuine (in the past couple of years, a lot of people I know seem to have discovered that their great granduncle once nicked the hubcaps off a car near Liverpool). I have no problem with people supporting a team from where they grew up, or even where their parent grew up if they attend matches occasionally.
I should mention that the bulk of my opprobrium is reserved for those that flit between direct competitors (such as an acquaintance who has discovered that three of his four grandparents supported Man U, Man City, and Liverpool, which apparently gives him the right to support whichever one is dominant at the time).
Yeah that's wrong. People should support their clubs through thick and thin.
If someone supports their club when they're losing, then they're not a glory hunter even if they're not local. Liverpool maintained fans all around the country, all around the world, even when there was three decades between titles. People who remained Liverpool all that time aren't glory hunters.
I'm not sure I'm going to give *any* credit to someone for sticking with a team that hasn't come below 8th in the country for over 60 years, and in that awful 30 year drought still won national titles at a rate of one per two years. The fact that you refer to that 30 year period as a bad spell (in which Liverpool not once lost more matches than they won) shows how detached greedy 6 fans can be.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Wasn't really an option for me.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
Don’t see how it’s not an option, but the alternative to not supporting your hometown team shouldn’t just be supporting a team because they’re on the tv loads and win trophies.
Not all "home towns" have a football club for starters.
Warrington hasn't got a professional football club, but is sandwiched between Liverpool and Manchester so roughly half the town support Liverpool and roughly half support Manchester, with everyone supporting the Wire for the Rugby.
It does bring forth the question of what is one’s “hometown team?” I mean, for me, outside Abingdon, it would mean the joys of the Hellenic League Division One East (which is a bit weaker than it was since Didcot Town Reserves dropped out). But maybe it’s the closest professional team, but is that as the crow flies, or by road? And do you choose types of road? Can you take traffic congestion into account? Oxford United are a bit closer to me than Reading Town or Swindon Town, but getting into Oxford on a busy weekend can be murder. Especially when the A34 goes down. I might get to Swindon Town faster than Oxford United, but I wouldn’t call them my hometown club.
Or can I hold out for a Premiership club (because, let’s face it, Oxford United ain’t gunning for Premiership status any time this decade)?
God only knows which Premiership club is closest, though. Although I could probably get to a London club in under an hour and a half by train. But I’d hardly call that a “hometown team”. Or should I support the team closest to where I grew up? But I’d not really get to see many games from Colchester United if I did.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Wasn't really an option for me.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
Why not an option? In Sheffield, you even have a choice!
I'm a child of the 80s.
80s football support was plagued with violence, hooliganism, and racism.
So my father never took me to any football matches because of those, so the only football I could see was on TV, in those days there were about 20 matches live a season, and Liverpool featured in about 19 of them. Sheffields Wednesday and United were not on TV.
As a four year old they became my team because my father followed them to an extent.
A noble excuse but I wasn’t taken to the football either as a kid except England. There’s plenty of children of the 80s who have managed to support their local side. Wolves have got a massive Asian fanbase for example.
Looking down on people because they support a football team that isn’t their local side? Really?
Odd. In a globalised, interconnected world it’s pretty inevitable people are going to be drawn to support teams which aren’t necessarily their local side. Don’t really see why should have to justify it, either.
Incidentally @kinabalu Johnson is 5'9" and 14.5 stone isn't even obese for someone 5'9".
More than one in four British adults are obese. I would definitely count Johnson within that 1 in 4, wouldn't you?
17.5 not 14.5.
And he's five nine in his Cubans.
Yes I would think he was a liar if he said he was 14.5 stone at his heaviest. He was definitely obese at his heaviest and 14.5 stone is not obese.
17.5 stone is believable. 14.5 stone is not.
If by 14.5 stone you mean 14 stone and 7 lbs (which is 14 1/2 stone) then according to the NHS calculator that is officially obese. Just admittedly but it is never the less.
At 5'9" ?
I put that into the calculator and it came to BMI 29.0 which is not obese. 30+ is obese.
Johnson is at least 5'10" from what I've read.
lol.
Nice one.
Perhaps if Johnson had better posture, and not the round shouldered, stooping Churchillian gait, he might actually be the 6ft 4", his fanbois on PB desire.
James Milner: “We have to try and be professional and control what we can control. First we heard of it yesterday. There’s a lot of questions. I don’t like it (the Super League) and hopefully it doesn’t happen.”
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Yes, absolutely. Plastics and glory hunters are the worst part of football. Being a Spurs supporter has given me some of the worst moments of my existence and some of the most exhilarating (beating Man City in the champion's league, for example). But win or lose I was there with my dad at almost every home game over the last 6 seasons pre lockdown. Now we're both done. This is ruining football, it's literally a league for plastics and glory hunters who don't care about what happens on the pitch but just want to say they support the biggest club.
Yep, the Super League isn't meant for the English 'legacy' fans, as JP Morgan put it, but for the new Asian and American plastics.
I am quite certain that our 2005-06 106 point season, followed up by coming 1 point off of Europe in our first ever Premier League Campaign provided me with far more joy and happy memories than any glory supporter has ever felt because of football.
Might start going to watch Reading when fans are allowed back, although parking is a bit of a pain at the Mad Stad.
Ah nice, if you want a tip, park in Green Park, which is free, and there's steps up towards the stadium, and depending on how energetic you're feeling Club 1871 is usually good fun!
I don't mind international football, but club football bores me immensely most of the time. Never got the appeal of it.
It's the other way round.
I am quite happy to abuse Harry Kane for being a horse faced mouth breather whenever I see him, and Sterling for tripping over blades of grass as if shot by a sniper.
I cannot then switch to cheer them just because they pull on an England shirt.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Wasn't really an option for me.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
Don’t see how it’s not an option, but the alternative to not supporting your hometown team shouldn’t just be supporting a team because they’re on the tv loads and win trophies.
Not all "home towns" have a football club for starters.
Warrington hasn't got a professional football club, but is sandwiched between Liverpool and Manchester so roughly half the town support Liverpool and roughly half support Manchester, with everyone supporting the Wire for the Rugby.
Wigan were a non league side when I was a kid. Similarly, a choice of 4 big local clubs. And Bolton Wanderers (if you were weird). Everyone had Latics as their second team though.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Its wrong to assume people are glory hunters though. Often people have a familial or other connection.
I'm from Merseyside originally and have always supported Tranmere and Liverpool as a result. All my family supports Tranmere and Liverpool or Tranmere and Everton.
I've since moved away from Merseyside but not changed my clubs, why should I?
My daughters have never lived in Merseyside but support "Livempool" as my youngest calls them because they're "daddy's team". They don't often see me watching Tranmere on TV as they're very rarely televised, and if they are its normally midweek after their bedtime anyway.
I don't often assume, usually a friendly, 'how'd you come to start supporting them?' 'planning on going to a game soon?' (in non-covid times) is enough to get a very good clue.
Yes, some people do have familial connections, and occasionally they are genuine (in the past couple of years, a lot of people I know seem to have discovered that their great granduncle once nicked the hubcaps off a car near Liverpool). I have no problem with people supporting a team from where they grew up, or even where their parent grew up if they attend matches occasionally.
I should mention that the bulk of my opprobrium is reserved for those that flit between direct competitors (such as an acquaintance who has discovered that three of his four grandparents supported Man U, Man City, and Liverpool, which apparently gives him the right to support whichever one is dominant at the time).
Yeah that's wrong. People should support their clubs through thick and thin.
If someone supports their club when they're losing, then they're not a glory hunter even if they're not local. Liverpool maintained fans all around the country, all around the world, even when there was three decades between titles. People who remained Liverpool all that time aren't glory hunters.
I'm not sure I'm going to give *any* credit to someone for sticking with a team that hasn't come below 8th in the country for over 60 years, and in that awful 30 year drought still won national titles at a rate of one per two years. The fact that you refer to that 30 year period as a bad spell (in which Liverpool not once lost more matches than they won) shows how detached greedy 6 fans can be.
Success = Performance - Expectation.
It was a bad spell for the club and supporters who stuck with them are not glory hunters.
Though I've certainly had more of an emotional rollercoast with Tranmere. Gone from Fourth Division to real second now (what is now Championship) play off contenders, to cup runs at the turn of the century which ended up with us reaching the League Cup final (lost it to Foxy's club) and FA Cup Quarter Final (eliminated by Liverpool ironically) - but then relegated same season, down to being relegated out of the League altogether into the Conference, then promoted again a couple of times, then relegated by Covid last season. Now fighting for Play Offs again.
Those who only support ever present Premier League clubs miss out on the emotional rollercoaster of Promotion and Relegation.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Wasn't really an option for me.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
Don’t see how it’s not an option, but the alternative to not supporting your hometown team shouldn’t just be supporting a team because they’re on the tv loads and win trophies.
Not all "home towns" have a football club for starters.
Warrington hasn't got a professional football club, but is sandwiched between Liverpool and Manchester so roughly half the town support Liverpool and roughly half support Manchester, with everyone supporting the Wire for the Rugby.
It does bring forth the question of what is one’s “hometown team?” I mean, for me, outside Abingdon, it would mean the joys of the Hellenic League Division One East (which is a bit weaker than it was since Didcot Town Reserves dropped out). But maybe it’s the closest professional team, but is that as the crow flies, or by road? And do you choose types of road? Can you take traffic congestion into account? Oxford United are a bit closer to me than Reading Town or Swindon Town, but getting into Oxford on a busy weekend can be murder. Especially when the A34 goes down. I might get to Swindon Town faster than Oxford United, but I wouldn’t call them my hometown club.
Or can I hold out for a Premiership club (because, let’s face it, Oxford United ain’t gunning for Premiership status any time this decade)?
God only knows which Premiership club is closest, though. Although I could probably get to a London club in under an hour and a half by train. But I’d hardly call that a “hometown team”. Or should I support the team closest to where I grew up? But I’d not really get to see many games from Colchester United if I did.
I know you are being balanced and not too serious but as a general point why do people accept or even expect that blokes do not have a favourite rugby or cricket team and certainly a favourite athletics club or hockey team but have to have a football team ? Football is too dominant anyway in sport and other sports are more rounded and better to follow imo
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Both sides have a point. The great clubs ARE a worldwide brand - Barca, Man U, Real, Bayern, Liverpool
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
They don't deserve more of the spoils by virtue of being THEM. You can argue for more spoils going to the most successful clubs, whoever they may be in a particular season, but not specific entrenched clubs.
Yes. Entirely so
What most sticks in the craw is the self selected Founding Fathers (OMFG) who will be the richest clubs for the rest of time and can never be demoted.
Anyone who has ever followed football in any way finds that loathsome. I used to be a passionate football fan (going to my hometown Division 3 reserve matches!), now I tune in for occasional EPL games, UCL big nights, and the World Cup/euros
But I understand the importance of a fluid system as against a terrible entrenched football aristocracy, where every lesser club is deemed an untouchable, which shall never rise above its proper lowly status
UGH
Don't understand your violent objection to dog eat dog market economics.
Did you prefer the old pre big bang City of London with the old family jobbing cartels and everything run on a "chaps we can trust" basis?
Do you have a hankering for when the titans of organized labour would stop by for beer and sandwiches at number 10?
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Yes, absolutely. Plastics and glory hunters are the worst part of football. Being a Spurs supporter has given me some of the worst moments of my existence and some of the most exhilarating (beating Man City in the champion's league, for example). But win or lose I was there with my dad at almost every home game over the last 6 seasons pre lockdown. Now we're both done. This is ruining football, it's literally a league for plastics and glory hunters who don't care about what happens on the pitch but just want to say they support the biggest club.
Yep, the Super League isn't meant for the English 'legacy' fans, as JP Morgan put it, but for the new Asian and American plastics.
I am quite certain that our 2005-06 106 point season, followed up by coming 1 point off of Europe in our first ever Premier League Campaign provided me with far more joy and happy memories than any glory supporter has ever felt because of football.
‘Legacy fans” = people who loyally come to every game, pay to get in, and cheer you lustily, even when you lose (tho they will swear at you as well). They are the essence and brilliance of any great football league. Indeed any popular sport. As we have seen during Covid, without passionate fans it is a quarter of the spectacle. Home and away means nothing.
Anybody - ANYBODY - who uses the phrase ‘legacy fans’, should be barred from owning an English football club
What we have is something precious. The government is right to make moves to protect it
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Yes, absolutely. Plastics and glory hunters are the worst part of football. Being a Spurs supporter has given me some of the worst moments of my existence and some of the most exhilarating (beating Man City in the champion's league, for example). But win or lose I was there with my dad at almost every home game over the last 6 seasons pre lockdown. Now we're both done. This is ruining football, it's literally a league for plastics and glory hunters who don't care about what happens on the pitch but just want to say they support the biggest club.
Yep, the Super League isn't meant for the English 'legacy' fans, as JP Morgan put it, but for the new Asian and American plastics.
I am quite certain that our 2005-06 106 point season, followed up by coming 1 point off of Europe in our first ever Premier League Campaign provided me with far more joy and happy memories than any glory supporter has ever felt because of football.
‘Legacy fans” = people who loyally come to every game, pay to get in, and cheer you lustily, even when you lose (tho they will swear at you as well). They are the essence and brilliance of any great football league. Indeed any popular sport. As we have seen during Covid, without passionate fans it is a quarter of the spectacle. Home and away means nothing.
Anybody - ANYBODY - who uses the phrase ‘legacy fans’, should be barred from owning an English football club
What we have is something precious. The government is right to make moves to protect it
Yeah, it so perfectly sums up the utter disdain they have for the common fan.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Yes, absolutely. Plastics and glory hunters are the worst part of football. Being a Spurs supporter has given me some of the worst moments of my existence and some of the most exhilarating (beating Man City in the champion's league, for example). But win or lose I was there with my dad at almost every home game over the last 6 seasons pre lockdown. Now we're both done. This is ruining football, it's literally a league for plastics and glory hunters who don't care about what happens on the pitch but just want to say they support the biggest club.
Yep, the Super League isn't meant for the English 'legacy' fans, as JP Morgan put it, but for the new Asian and American plastics.
I am quite certain that our 2005-06 106 point season, followed up by coming 1 point off of Europe in our first ever Premier League Campaign provided me with far more joy and happy memories than any glory supporter has ever felt because of football.
‘Legacy fans” = people who loyally come to every game, pay to get in, and cheer you lustily, even when you lose (tho they will swear at you as well). They are the essence and brilliance of any great football league. Indeed any popular sport. As we have seen during Covid, without passionate fans it is a quarter of the spectacle. Home and away means nothing.
Anybody - ANYBODY - who uses the phrase ‘legacy fans’, should be barred from owning an English football club
What we have is something precious. The government is right to make moves to protect it
I cannot work up a strong opinion over the proposed changes either way .The only strong opinion i have on this is that the government should definitely not intervene given that a government should concern itself with things that matter fundamentally to people on a real need basis not to mess around with a game of football FFS .Bill Shankley may have said football is more important than life and death but he was clearly wrong and he probably (hopefully ) was self aware to realise it ! It really woudl be ridiculous and depressing if the nanny state got to a level where it feels it should dictate football. Maybe the goverment shoudl set up a royal commission to see if the LBW law needs changing in cricket?
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Both sides have a point. The great clubs ARE a worldwide brand - Barca, Man U, Real, Bayern, Liverpool
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
They don't deserve more of the spoils by virtue of being THEM. You can argue for more spoils going to the most successful clubs, whoever they may be in a particular season, but not specific entrenched clubs.
Yes. Entirely so
What most sticks in the craw is the self selected Founding Fathers (OMFG) who will be the richest clubs for the rest of time and can never be demoted.
Anyone who has ever followed football in any way finds that loathsome. I used to be a passionate football fan (going to my hometown Division 3 reserve matches!), now I tune in for occasional EPL games, UCL big nights, and the World Cup/euros
But I understand the importance of a fluid system as against a terrible entrenched football aristocracy, where every lesser club is deemed an untouchable, which shall never rise above its proper lowly status
UGH
Don't understand your violent objection to dog eat dog market economics.
Did you prefer the old pre big bang City of London with the old family jobbing cartels and everything run on a "chaps we can trust" basis?
Do you have a hankering for when the titans of organized labour would stop by for beer and sandwiches at number 10?
An entrenched oligopoly of 15 unbeatable clubs is the opposite of dog-eat-dog market economics. It is a cartel
Let the new young clubs fight their way to the top, and displace the old. Or not. That is capitalism
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Both sides have a point. The great clubs ARE a worldwide brand - Barca, Man U, Real, Bayern, Liverpool
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
They don't deserve more of the spoils by virtue of being THEM. You can argue for more spoils going to the most successful clubs, whoever they may be in a particular season, but not specific entrenched clubs.
Yes. Entirely so
What most sticks in the craw is the self selected Founding Fathers (OMFG) who will be the richest clubs for the rest of time and can never be demoted.
Anyone who has ever followed football in any way finds that loathsome. I used to be a passionate football fan (going to my hometown Division 3 reserve matches!), now I tune in for occasional EPL games, UCL big nights, and the World Cup/euros
But I understand the importance of a fluid system as against a terrible entrenched football aristocracy, where every lesser club is deemed an untouchable, which shall never rise above its proper lowly status
UGH
Don't understand your violent objection to dog eat dog market economics.
Did you prefer the old pre big bang City of London with the old family jobbing cartels and everything run on a "chaps we can trust" basis?
Do you have a hankering for when the titans of organized labour would stop by for beer and sandwiches at number 10?
But what is being proposed isn't dog eat dog competition. It is a stitch-up. The better analogy is that the super-league = the old family jobbing cartels; the current situation - where winning is on merit - post big bang.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Both sides have a point. The great clubs ARE a worldwide brand - Barca, Man U, Real, Bayern, Liverpool
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
They don't deserve more of the spoils by virtue of being THEM. You can argue for more spoils going to the most successful clubs, whoever they may be in a particular season, but not specific entrenched clubs.
Yes. Entirely so
What most sticks in the craw is the self selected Founding Fathers (OMFG) who will be the richest clubs for the rest of time and can never be demoted.
Anyone who has ever followed football in any way finds that loathsome. I used to be a passionate football fan (going to my hometown Division 3 reserve matches!), now I tune in for occasional EPL games, UCL big nights, and the World Cup/euros
But I understand the importance of a fluid system as against a terrible entrenched football aristocracy, where every lesser club is deemed an untouchable, which shall never rise above its proper lowly status
UGH
Don't understand your violent objection to dog eat dog market economics.
Did you prefer the old pre big bang City of London with the old family jobbing cartels and everything run on a "chaps we can trust" basis?
Do you have a hankering for when the titans of organized labour would stop by for beer and sandwiches at number 10?
Au contraire. What you are referring to are closed shops. ESL would be a closed shop.
FWIW my expectation is that a compromise will be made.
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
The automatic qualifies could be clubs which were previous winners during the last decade or three.
Rather like how golfers who have won a tournament get an automatic invite even when they get crap or old.
The trick is going to be to define a mechanism which means that the Arsenals of the world reliably qualify and get reliably enormous sums of money every year without making it too blatant. There must be a set of UEFA coefficients that will do that.
Is there a Spurs trophy cabinet? Buried under dust and cobwebs somewhere?
Ours was last seen on an episode of Antiques Roadshow.
I was 2 when we won the Fairs Cup. 52 years without a trophy.
Are you forgetting the mighty Texaco Cup?
Yes. And the Japan Cup. And the second division titles.
Bath is probably the least angry town in England. So what does Keir Starmer do? He manages to get into an angry argument with a Bath pub co-owner. Congratulations.
Boris is getting very lucky at the moment...nightly news filled with Starmer getting into altercation with landlord in Bath, Boris gets this photo op...
I know its clicks for the media, but i wish they wouldn't give oxygen to the likes of the landlord as it he wasn't a reasonable, it just encourages more members of the public to scream and shout at politicians...like all the milkshake nonsense.
Bath is probably the least angry town in England. So what does Keir Starmer do? He manages to get into an angry argument with a Bath pub co-owner. Congratulations.
Still not getting this it's for Asian and American fans. If it were it would be weekends. Midweek means middle of the night in Asia and early afternoon in the US. On weekdays. 3 pm on Saturday and Sunday would be a better fit. Unless, of course, they are meant to be played outside Europe...
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Its wrong to assume people are glory hunters though. Often people have a familial or other connection.
I'm from Merseyside originally and have always supported Tranmere and Liverpool as a result. All my family supports Tranmere and Liverpool or Tranmere and Everton.
I've since moved away from Merseyside but not changed my clubs, why should I?
My daughters have never lived in Merseyside but support "Livempool" as my youngest calls them because they're "daddy's team". They don't often see me watching Tranmere on TV as they're very rarely televised, and if they are its normally midweek after their bedtime anyway.
I don't often assume, usually a friendly, 'how'd you come to start supporting them?' 'planning on going to a game soon?' (in non-covid times) is enough to get a very good clue.
Yes, some people do have familial connections, and occasionally they are genuine (in the past couple of years, a lot of people I know seem to have discovered that their great granduncle once nicked the hubcaps off a car near Liverpool). I have no problem with people supporting a team from where they grew up, or even where their parent grew up if they attend matches occasionally.
I should mention that the bulk of my opprobrium is reserved for those that flit between direct competitors (such as an acquaintance who has discovered that three of his four grandparents supported Man U, Man City, and Liverpool, which apparently gives him the right to support whichever one is dominant at the time).
Yeah that's wrong. People should support their clubs through thick and thin.
If someone supports their club when they're losing, then they're not a glory hunter even if they're not local. Liverpool maintained fans all around the country, all around the world, even when there was three decades between titles. People who remained Liverpool all that time aren't glory hunters.
Yes, that is true.
I was born in Wigan, and moved to Leicester aged 25. I was never really interested in Football until Fox Jr went football mad aged 8.
I bought him a shirt and took him to some games. Next season we got season tickets, and have been hooked ever since, even in the dark days of relegation. It is only by sitting through the dross and defeat that the moments of beauty and triumph are properly appreciated.
Wigan. From non-league to FA Cup winners. That's what it is all about.
Bath is probably the least angry town in England. So what does Keir Starmer do? He manages to get into an angry argument with a Bath pub co-owner. Congratulations.
To be fair the pub owner sounded a bit of a knob
Of course.
Starmer is a klutz though. No campaign team should fix such photo-ops without a bit of vetting and staging.
Bath is probably the least angry town in England. So what does Keir Starmer do? He manages to get into an angry argument with a Bath pub co-owner. Congratulations.
I still can't work out what he was doing there...there is no votes in it for him.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Wasn't really an option for me.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
Don’t see how it’s not an option, but the alternative to not supporting your hometown team shouldn’t just be supporting a team because they’re on the tv loads and win trophies.
Not all "home towns" have a football club for starters.
Warrington hasn't got a professional football club, but is sandwiched between Liverpool and Manchester so roughly half the town support Liverpool and roughly half support Manchester, with everyone supporting the Wire for the Rugby.
It does bring forth the question of what is one’s “hometown team?” I mean, for me, outside Abingdon, it would mean the joys of the Hellenic League Division One East (which is a bit weaker than it was since Didcot Town Reserves dropped out). But maybe it’s the closest professional team, but is that as the crow flies, or by road? And do you choose types of road? Can you take traffic congestion into account? Oxford United are a bit closer to me than Reading Town or Swindon Town, but getting into Oxford on a busy weekend can be murder. Especially when the A34 goes down. I might get to Swindon Town faster than Oxford United, but I wouldn’t call them my hometown club.
Or can I hold out for a Premiership club (because, let’s face it, Oxford United ain’t gunning for Premiership status any time this decade)?
God only knows which Premiership club is closest, though. Although I could probably get to a London club in under an hour and a half by train. But I’d hardly call that a “hometown team”. Or should I support the team closest to where I grew up? But I’d not really get to see many games from Colchester United if I did.
I know you are being balanced and not too serious but as a general point why do people accept or even expect that blokes do not have a favourite rugby or cricket team and certainly a favourite athletics club or hockey team but have to have a football team ? Football is too dominant anyway in sport and other sports are more rounded and better to follow imo
It's where your from isn't it mainly? Or who your Dad supports.
Bath is probably the least angry town in England. So what does Keir Starmer do? He manages to get into an angry argument with a Bath pub co-owner. Congratulations.
To be fair the pub owner sounded a bit of a knob
Of course.
Starmer is a klutz though. No campaign team should fix such photo-ops without a bit of vetting and staging.
His mistake was also to tell the member of the public he wasn't going to.be lectured by him.and then try and walk into his pub.
I don't mind international football, but club football bores me immensely most of the time. Never got the appeal of it.
It's the other way round.
I am quite happy to abuse Harry Kane for being a horse faced mouth breather whenever I see him, and Sterling for tripping over blades of grass as if shot by a sniper.
I cannot then switch to cheer them just because they pull on an England shirt.
I'm with Andy here. I don't really understand slavish loyalty to an arbitrarily selected team of mercenaries; which will remain though the mercenaries will change. One of the nice things about lower level football is that you do tend to have a few more local players in evidence (happily top level football isn't entirely devoid of this, though we'll never get near the heady heights of Celtic 68 again where the entire team and the manager were from within 30 miles of Glasgow). I accept that supporting a team based on the fact they come from the same country as you is also slightly arbitrary. But not quite as arbitrary. I liked Stockport because they had the word 'Stockport' in their name and because I could get in for £4 and always get to the front and because I was deliberately awkward like that. And if I wanted to go and watch live football I could leave home at 2.15 and comfortably be there for kick off. But it was just something to do.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Its wrong to assume people are glory hunters though. Often people have a familial or other connection.
I'm from Merseyside originally and have always supported Tranmere and Liverpool as a result. All my family supports Tranmere and Liverpool or Tranmere and Everton.
I've since moved away from Merseyside but not changed my clubs, why should I?
My daughters have never lived in Merseyside but support "Livempool" as my youngest calls them because they're "daddy's team". They don't often see me watching Tranmere on TV as they're very rarely televised, and if they are its normally midweek after their bedtime anyway.
I don't often assume, usually a friendly, 'how'd you come to start supporting them?' 'planning on going to a game soon?' (in non-covid times) is enough to get a very good clue.
Yes, some people do have familial connections, and occasionally they are genuine (in the past couple of years, a lot of people I know seem to have discovered that their great granduncle once nicked the hubcaps off a car near Liverpool). I have no problem with people supporting a team from where they grew up, or even where their parent grew up if they attend matches occasionally.
I should mention that the bulk of my opprobrium is reserved for those that flit between direct competitors (such as an acquaintance who has discovered that three of his four grandparents supported Man U, Man City, and Liverpool, which apparently gives him the right to support whichever one is dominant at the time).
Yeah that's wrong. People should support their clubs through thick and thin.
If someone supports their club when they're losing, then they're not a glory hunter even if they're not local. Liverpool maintained fans all around the country, all around the world, even when there was three decades between titles. People who remained Liverpool all that time aren't glory hunters.
Yes, that is true.
I was born in Wigan, and moved to Leicester aged 25. I was never really interested in Football until Fox Jr went football mad aged 8.
I bought him a shirt and took him to some games. Next season we got season tickets, and have been hooked ever since, even in the dark days of relegation. It is only by sitting through the dross and defeat that the moments of beauty and triumph are properly appreciated.
Wigan. From non-league to FA Cup winners. That's what it is all about.
Yes, but that came later, and Fox Jr was born half a mile from what is now the King Power stadium. A proper Lestah lad.
Still not getting this it's for Asian and American fans. If it were it would be weekends. Midweek means middle of the night in Asia and early afternoon in the US. On weekdays. 3 pm on Saturday and Sunday would be a better fit. Unless, of course, they are meant to be played outside Europe...
Yes. It doesn’t add up. Either they expect/hope to be expelled from the EPL so there can actually play weekends or they are envisaging round-the-world games at all hours.
Whatever the case, tonight it feels like they’ve over-reached. The UK government alone could easily scupper them, many other opponents await, if not.
Still not getting this it's for Asian and American fans. If it were it would be weekends. Midweek means middle of the night in Asia and early afternoon in the US. On weekdays. 3 pm on Saturday and Sunday would be a better fit. Unless, of course, they are meant to be played outside Europe...
The original proposal is not what will end up happening if they're booted out of the national leagues. Then they will be free to play weekend fixtures.
If they're not booted out of the national leagues they may well walk out a few years down the line for the same purpose, or have large enough squads to play the two games on the same day.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Both sides have a point. The great clubs ARE a worldwide brand - Barca, Man U, Real, Bayern, Liverpool
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
They don't deserve more of the spoils by virtue of being THEM. You can argue for more spoils going to the most successful clubs, whoever they may be in a particular season, but not specific entrenched clubs.
Yes. Entirely so
What most sticks in the craw is the self selected Founding Fathers (OMFG) who will be the richest clubs for the rest of time and can never be demoted.
Anyone who has ever followed football in any way finds that loathsome. I used to be a passionate football fan (going to my hometown Division 3 reserve matches!), now I tune in for occasional EPL games, UCL big nights, and the World Cup/euros
But I understand the importance of a fluid system as against a terrible entrenched football aristocracy, where every lesser club is deemed an untouchable, which shall never rise above its proper lowly status
UGH
Don't understand your violent objection to dog eat dog market economics.
Did you prefer the old pre big bang City of London with the old family jobbing cartels and everything run on a "chaps we can trust" basis?
Do you have a hankering for when the titans of organized labour would stop by for beer and sandwiches at number 10?
But what is being proposed isn't dog eat dog competition. It is a stitch-up. The better analogy is that the super-league = the old family jobbing cartels; the current situation - where winning is on merit - post big bang.
Not really. It's a group of businesses collaborating to create and sell a product in a free market. It lives or dies based on supply and demand, pricing, costs and revenue.
Now I hate it - but I have no reverence for the market. What intrigues me is why people who normally genuflect to market dogma are so upset. It doesn't scan. Something is going on there.
I need to give it a deeper think before opining what that might be.
Bath is probably the least angry town in England. So what does Keir Starmer do? He manages to get into an angry argument with a Bath pub co-owner. Congratulations.
I still can't work out what he was doing there...there is no votes in it for him.
West of England Mayor. Which means they think that they're home and dry, or completely f**ked in the Red Wall
Bath is probably the least angry town in England. So what does Keir Starmer do? He manages to get into an angry argument with a Bath pub co-owner. Congratulations.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Both sides have a point. The great clubs ARE a worldwide brand - Barca, Man U, Real, Bayern, Liverpool
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
They don't deserve more of the spoils by virtue of being THEM. You can argue for more spoils going to the most successful clubs, whoever they may be in a particular season, but not specific entrenched clubs.
Yes. Entirely so
What most sticks in the craw is the self selected Founding Fathers (OMFG) who will be the richest clubs for the rest of time and can never be demoted.
Anyone who has ever followed football in any way finds that loathsome. I used to be a passionate football fan (going to my hometown Division 3 reserve matches!), now I tune in for occasional EPL games, UCL big nights, and the World Cup/euros
But I understand the importance of a fluid system as against a terrible entrenched football aristocracy, where every lesser club is deemed an untouchable, which shall never rise above its proper lowly status
UGH
Don't understand your violent objection to dog eat dog market economics.
Did you prefer the old pre big bang City of London with the old family jobbing cartels and everything run on a "chaps we can trust" basis?
Do you have a hankering for when the titans of organized labour would stop by for beer and sandwiches at number 10?
Au contraire. What you are referring to are closed shops. ESL would be a closed shop.
It would be competing against other football product, other sports product, and other leisure and entertainment product.
Still not getting this it's for Asian and American fans. If it were it would be weekends. Midweek means middle of the night in Asia and early afternoon in the US. On weekdays. 3 pm on Saturday and Sunday would be a better fit. Unless, of course, they are meant to be played outside Europe...
Yes. It doesn’t add up. Either they expect/hope to be expelled from the EPL so there can actually play weekends or they are envisaging round-the-world games at all hours.
Whatever the case, tonight it feels like they’ve over-reached. The UK government alone could easily scupper them, many other opponents await, if not.
Maybe Chinese viewers won't care what time of day or night the matches are played.
Bath is probably the least angry town in England. So what does Keir Starmer do? He manages to get into an angry argument with a Bath pub co-owner. Congratulations.
I still can't work out what he was doing there...there is no votes in it for him.
West of England Mayor. Which means they think that they're home and dry, or completely f**ked in the Red Wall
Theu aint getting many votes from central Bath itself though.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Both sides have a point. The great clubs ARE a worldwide brand - Barca, Man U, Real, Bayern, Liverpool
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
They don't deserve more of the spoils by virtue of being THEM. You can argue for more spoils going to the most successful clubs, whoever they may be in a particular season, but not specific entrenched clubs.
Yes. Entirely so
What most sticks in the craw is the self selected Founding Fathers (OMFG) who will be the richest clubs for the rest of time and can never be demoted.
Anyone who has ever followed football in any way finds that loathsome. I used to be a passionate football fan (going to my hometown Division 3 reserve matches!), now I tune in for occasional EPL games, UCL big nights, and the World Cup/euros
But I understand the importance of a fluid system as against a terrible entrenched football aristocracy, where every lesser club is deemed an untouchable, which shall never rise above its proper lowly status
UGH
Don't understand your violent objection to dog eat dog market economics.
Did you prefer the old pre big bang City of London with the old family jobbing cartels and everything run on a "chaps we can trust" basis?
Do you have a hankering for when the titans of organized labour would stop by for beer and sandwiches at number 10?
An entrenched oligopoly of 15 unbeatable clubs is the opposite of dog-eat-dog market economics. It is a cartel
Let the new young clubs fight their way to the top, and displace the old. Or not. That is capitalism
No. This is text book capitalism. You use the clout your wealth provides to accrue more wealth and clout. And it wouldn't breach commercial competition rules. Not even close. I think it's an example of people suddenly seeing the problem with a system when it comes to claim something they care about.
Still not getting this it's for Asian and American fans. If it were it would be weekends. Midweek means middle of the night in Asia and early afternoon in the US. On weekdays. 3 pm on Saturday and Sunday would be a better fit. Unless, of course, they are meant to be played outside Europe...
If its for the Asian and American fans then they should surrender the history and just move the teams to the Far East. Let the cities rebuild on the old names here in the UK. Of course they won't do that because they know that without the name and the associated history they are nothing.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Both sides have a point. The great clubs ARE a worldwide brand - Barca, Man U, Real, Bayern, Liverpool
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
They don't deserve more of the spoils by virtue of being THEM. You can argue for more spoils going to the most successful clubs, whoever they may be in a particular season, but not specific entrenched clubs.
Yes. Entirely so
What most sticks in the craw is the self selected Founding Fathers (OMFG) who will be the richest clubs for the rest of time and can never be demoted.
Anyone who has ever followed football in any way finds that loathsome. I used to be a passionate football fan (going to my hometown Division 3 reserve matches!), now I tune in for occasional EPL games, UCL big nights, and the World Cup/euros
But I understand the importance of a fluid system as against a terrible entrenched football aristocracy, where every lesser club is deemed an untouchable, which shall never rise above its proper lowly status
UGH
Don't understand your violent objection to dog eat dog market economics.
Did you prefer the old pre big bang City of London with the old family jobbing cartels and everything run on a "chaps we can trust" basis?
Do you have a hankering for when the titans of organized labour would stop by for beer and sandwiches at number 10?
But what is being proposed isn't dog eat dog competition. It is a stitch-up. The better analogy is that the super-league = the old family jobbing cartels; the current situation - where winning is on merit - post big bang.
Not really. It's a group of businesses collaborating to create and sell a product in a free market. It lives or dies based on supply and demand, pricing, costs and revenue.
Now I hate it - but I have no reverence for the market. What intrigues me is why people who normally genuflect to market dogma are so upset. It doesn't scan. Something is going on there.
I need to give it a deeper think before opining what that might be.
Well to be honest, I hate the proposed product, but I don't think it shouldn't be allowed. I think they should go, and they should fail, because the new product will not be as good. But here the 'market' analogy falls down, because the companies which continue to make the old product will also lose out. No companies will win. But perhaps consumers will.
I don't think the market analogy works very well.
But it's possible to simultaneously believe that what the dirty dozen are doing is bad, and that they should not be legally prevented from doing it.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Its wrong to assume people are glory hunters though. Often people have a familial or other connection.
I'm from Merseyside originally and have always supported Tranmere and Liverpool as a result. All my family supports Tranmere and Liverpool or Tranmere and Everton.
I've since moved away from Merseyside but not changed my clubs, why should I?
My daughters have never lived in Merseyside but support "Livempool" as my youngest calls them because they're "daddy's team". They don't often see me watching Tranmere on TV as they're very rarely televised, and if they are its normally midweek after their bedtime anyway.
I don't often assume, usually a friendly, 'how'd you come to start supporting them?' 'planning on going to a game soon?' (in non-covid times) is enough to get a very good clue.
Yes, some people do have familial connections, and occasionally they are genuine (in the past couple of years, a lot of people I know seem to have discovered that their great granduncle once nicked the hubcaps off a car near Liverpool). I have no problem with people supporting a team from where they grew up, or even where their parent grew up if they attend matches occasionally.
I should mention that the bulk of my opprobrium is reserved for those that flit between direct competitors (such as an acquaintance who has discovered that three of his four grandparents supported Man U, Man City, and Liverpool, which apparently gives him the right to support whichever one is dominant at the time).
Yeah that's wrong. People should support their clubs through thick and thin.
If someone supports their club when they're losing, then they're not a glory hunter even if they're not local. Liverpool maintained fans all around the country, all around the world, even when there was three decades between titles. People who remained Liverpool all that time aren't glory hunters.
My older brother managed to maintain his anyone-but-Liverpool antipathy through three decades of pity-inducing performances. That's dedication that is.
Oh look, Klopp is being a spineless coward live on Sky, backtracking all over the place.
Nice one.
I think you're seeing what you want to see there.
FSG are trying to rip up English and European football and Jurgen Klopp wants us to feel sorry for his players because someone left some shirts in their dressing room. Boo f*cking hoo.
Oh look, Klopp is being a spineless coward live on Sky, backtracking all over the place.
Nice one.
I think you're seeing what you want to see there.
FSG are trying to rip up English and European football and Jurgen Klopp wants us to feel sorry for his players because someone left some shirts in their dressing room. Boo f*cking hoo.
He's the only (so far) manager of one of the big 6 clubs who has unambiguously come out against this proposal.
Bath is probably the least angry town in England. So what does Keir Starmer do? He manages to get into an angry argument with a Bath pub co-owner. Congratulations.
Did you see him though - that "Rod" character?
If that's your typical Bath resident, I won't be visiting, Roman spa and sumptuous Georgian architecture or no.
Incidentally @kinabalu Johnson is 5'9" and 14.5 stone isn't even obese for someone 5'9".
More than one in four British adults are obese. I would definitely count Johnson within that 1 in 4, wouldn't you?
17.5 not 14.5.
And he's five nine in his Cubans.
Yes I would think he was a liar if he said he was 14.5 stone at his heaviest. He was definitely obese at his heaviest and 14.5 stone is not obese.
17.5 stone is believable. 14.5 stone is not.
If by 14.5 stone you mean 14 stone and 7 lbs (which is 14 1/2 stone) then according to the NHS calculator that is officially obese. Just admittedly but it is never the less.
At 5'9" ?
I put that into the calculator and it came to BMI 29.0 which is not obese. 30+ is obese.
Johnson is at least 5'10" from what I've read.
lol.
Nice one.
Perhaps if Johnson had better posture, and not the round shouldered, stooping Churchillian gait, he might actually be the 6ft 4", his fanbois on PB desire.
Bath is probably the least angry town in England. So what does Keir Starmer do? He manages to get into an angry argument with a Bath pub co-owner. Congratulations.
Did you see him though - that "Rod" character?
If that's your typical Bath resident, I won't be visiting, Roman spa and sumptuous Georgian architecture or no.
I went to Bath for New Year in 2002 or thereabouts. I met a girl in a pub who very sadly told me that Bath was one of the roughest towns in the country (because it's surrounded by 'all the villages'). She was getting out, she said, and had found somewhere called Alfreton where she was going to buy a house, and her life was going to be much better. It was an odd evening.
Comments
I'm from Stoke, but been a fan of Crewe Alex since a small child, attracted by the free flowing football and the incredible youth production line of exciting talent...now I am a fan of a club most famous for hiring and it appears at best being blind to one of the worst paedos on record, as he abused scores of kids.coming through the system.
👏
If someone supports their club when they're losing, then they're not a glory hunter even if they're not local. Liverpool maintained fans all around the country, all around the world, even when there was three decades between titles. People who remained Liverpool all that time aren't glory hunters.
*even the risible Sewell report advocates that.
Not you as well.
It’s Uefa not Eufa!
Leeds United
@LUFC
FULL TIME: #LUFC hold Super League side Merseyside Reds to a 1-1 draw after late Llorente equaliser
When clubs are in completely different leagues its entirely possible to support more than one. There's no clash for me between supporting Rovers for League Two (which I still think should be called the Fourth Division) and Liverpool for the Premier League.
This whole thread is odd. From the Klopp takes, to people analysing the weight of Boris. I mean of all the things to be concerned about in regard to Boris....
Then again, from a brief look at previous threads some people’s first thoughts appear to have been how this ESL impacts the political fortunes of the Tories which, well....wasn’t my first thought, as an Arsenal fan, when I saw the news. So my whole way of thinking is completely out of sync with the last few threads.
In all honesty, nowadays, I'm really not a fundamentalist about this. Support who you like, for whatever reason you like. Change teams, if you like. Why not? Though arbitrary reasons are more fun: An aquaintance of mine grew up in straitened circumstances in Morecambe. His Dad took him to buy his first football shirt at about the age of 11. Time to make a decision - Blackburn? Manchester United? Liverpool? Everton? "No, son, not that lot, choose one of these." He was guven a choice of the shirts in the 'reduced' bin. Based upon which, he became a firm Sheffield United fan, spending far more on journeys to Sheffield over the years than he saved by not buying the Blackburn shirt.
'My' team is Stockport, but I've not been for over 20 years.
When we played lunchtime football at school - Man U fans v Man City fans - I always sided with the City fans: I always found something a bit morally suspect about supporting a team which won anyway - like cheering for the sun to come up in the morning. But nowadays - since there is currently little tension between supporting Stockport and supporting the Manchester teams - I have managed to convince myself to grow up enough to be pleased when any Manchester team does well. I also get a small amount of petty satisfaction that this attitude will annoy true fans (though I understand in the 60s people would think nothing of supporting both).
I was born in Wigan, and moved to Leicester aged 25. I was never really interested in Football until Fox Jr went football mad aged 8.
I bought him a shirt and took him to some games. Next season we got season tickets, and have been hooked ever since, even in the dark days of relegation. It is only by sitting through the dross and defeat that the moments of beauty and triumph are properly appreciated.
Impeccable timing.
https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1384251395591741441
I mean, for me, outside Abingdon, it would mean the joys of the Hellenic League Division One East (which is a bit weaker than it was since Didcot Town Reserves dropped out).
But maybe it’s the closest professional team, but is that as the crow flies, or by road? And do you choose types of road? Can you take traffic congestion into account?
Oxford United are a bit closer to me than Reading Town or Swindon Town, but getting into Oxford on a busy weekend can be murder. Especially when the A34 goes down. I might get to Swindon Town faster than Oxford United, but I wouldn’t call them my hometown club.
Or can I hold out for a Premiership club (because, let’s face it, Oxford United ain’t gunning for Premiership status any time this decade)?
God only knows which Premiership club is closest, though. Although I could probably get to a London club in under an hour and a half by train. But I’d hardly call that a “hometown team”.
Or should I support the team closest to where I grew up? But I’d not really get to see many games from Colchester United if I did.
Odd. In a globalised, interconnected world it’s pretty inevitable people are going to be drawn to support teams which aren’t necessarily their local side. Don’t really see why should have to justify it, either.
Really?
I am quite happy to abuse Harry Kane for being a horse faced mouth breather whenever I see him, and Sterling for tripping over blades of grass as if shot by a sniper.
I cannot then switch to cheer them just because they pull on an England shirt.
Everyone had Latics as their second team though.
It was a bad spell for the club and supporters who stuck with them are not glory hunters.
Though I've certainly had more of an emotional rollercoast with Tranmere. Gone from Fourth Division to real second now (what is now Championship) play off contenders, to cup runs at the turn of the century which ended up with us reaching the League Cup final (lost it to Foxy's club) and FA Cup Quarter Final (eliminated by Liverpool ironically) - but then relegated same season, down to being relegated out of the League altogether into the Conference, then promoted again a couple of times, then relegated by Covid last season. Now fighting for Play Offs again.
Those who only support ever present Premier League clubs miss out on the emotional rollercoaster of Promotion and Relegation.
Did you prefer the old pre big bang City of London with the old family jobbing cartels and everything run on a "chaps we can trust" basis?
Do you have a hankering for when the titans of organized labour would stop by for beer and sandwiches at number 10?
(Not talking my book, no not at all...)
Anybody - ANYBODY - who uses the phrase ‘legacy fans’, should be barred from owning an English football club
What we have is something precious. The government is right to make moves to protect it
https://twitter.com/danroan/status/1384062591450771465
Let the new young clubs fight their way to the top, and displace the old. Or not. That is capitalism
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9487815/Boris-Johnson-enjoys-post-lockdown-pint.html
I know its clicks for the media, but i wish they wouldn't give oxygen to the likes of the landlord as it he wasn't a reasonable, it just encourages more members of the public to scream and shout at politicians...like all the milkshake nonsense.
If it were it would be weekends.
Midweek means middle of the night in Asia and early afternoon in the US. On weekdays.
3 pm on Saturday and Sunday would be a better fit.
Unless, of course, they are meant to be played outside Europe...
Starmer is a klutz though. No campaign team should fix such photo-ops without a bit of vetting and staging.
I don't really understand slavish loyalty to an arbitrarily selected team of mercenaries; which will remain though the mercenaries will change. One of the nice things about lower level football is that you do tend to have a few more local players in evidence (happily top level football isn't entirely devoid of this, though we'll never get near the heady heights of Celtic 68 again where the entire team and the manager were from within 30 miles of Glasgow).
I accept that supporting a team based on the fact they come from the same country as you is also slightly arbitrary. But not quite as arbitrary.
I liked Stockport because they had the word 'Stockport' in their name and because I could get in for £4 and always get to the front and because I was deliberately awkward like that. And if I wanted to go and watch live football I could leave home at 2.15 and comfortably be there for kick off. But it was just something to do.
Whatever the case, tonight it feels like they’ve over-reached. The UK government alone could easily scupper them, many other opponents await, if not.
If they're not booted out of the national leagues they may well walk out a few years down the line for the same purpose, or have large enough squads to play the two games on the same day.
Now I hate it - but I have no reverence for the market. What intrigues me is why people who normally genuflect to market dogma are so upset. It doesn't scan. Something is going on there.
I need to give it a deeper think before opining what that might be.
Nice one.
But here the 'market' analogy falls down, because the companies which continue to make the old product will also lose out. No companies will win.
But perhaps consumers will.
I don't think the market analogy works very well.
But it's possible to simultaneously believe that what the dirty dozen are doing is bad, and that they should not be legally prevented from doing it.
Klopp triggered by a T-shirt:
"But if somebody thinks they have to remind us to 'earn it' to go to the Champions League, that's a real joke and it makes me angry.
"If it was a Leeds idea, thank you very much, nobody has to remind us."
They lack the 'equipment' necessary to lead the Labour Party.
If that's your typical Bath resident, I won't be visiting, Roman spa and sumptuous Georgian architecture or no.
I met a girl in a pub who very sadly told me that Bath was one of the roughest towns in the country (because it's surrounded by 'all the villages'). She was getting out, she said, and had found somewhere called Alfreton where she was going to buy a house, and her life was going to be much better.
It was an odd evening.
She lacks a necessary prerequisite for the Labour Party to consider her.