FWIW my expectation is that a compromise will be made.
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
The automatic qualifies could be clubs which were previous winners during the last decade or three.
Rather like how golfers who have won a tournament get an automatic invite even when they get crap or old.
The trick is going to be to define a mechanism which means that the Arsenals of the world reliably qualify and get reliably enormous sums of money every year without making it too blatant. There must be a set of UEFA coefficients that will do that.
Is there a Spurs trophy cabinet? Buried under dust and cobwebs somewhere?
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Both sides have a point. The great clubs ARE a worldwide brand - Barca, Man U, Real, Bayern, Liverpool
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
They don't deserve more of the spoils by virtue of being THEM. You can argue for more spoils going to the most successful clubs, whoever they may be in a particular season, but not specific entrenched clubs.
That would be . . . a compromise.
What would be a compromise?
More spoils going to the most successful clubs, whoever they may be.
That would be a compromise. The big 6 drop the "reserved for us" unsporting idea and accept the principle of it being "whoever they may be" while ensuring that if they do well (which they do often enough) they're getting a bigger share of the loot.
As I said before, the UCL raises €3.25bn in revenue, of which even the winner got just 3.4% of the cash. When even the winner is getting just 3.4% of the revenue the competition is making, its certainly possible to come up with ways the clubs can get more cash as a compromise.
One possible compromise would be to weight the payments more depending upon stage so that those who reach the last 16 and later get a higher share of the revenue - again whoever they may be. The big clubs can then expect more revenue since they generally make the last 16, but they do so based upon performances on the field.
Oliver Dowden has pledged to stop this European Super League madness. How does he propose to do this? And will taking their ball home really work?
He doesn't. He is a member of Liar's cabinet. Get the headline. Move on. The issue itself? Who cares.
This is the UK government, shorn of the ECJ. It is liberated, and not without resources. And it has a huge majority in the Commons for ANYTHING that will stop this. Plus vast overseas support.
I am sure HMG's assembled lawmakers and QCs could come up with enough wheezes to make the ESL deeply problematic, and mired in legal controversy, such that sponsors take fright, even if they don't win in the end (tho I believe they would win in some areas)
The visa thing is the first place to start. No more foreign players. That is the choice of HMG. Easily done
Also we won't license your games, either. Try policing THAT
And how about: a new form of ownership for all professional teams where all constitutional decisions (eg new competitions) must be approved by a 50+1 system, as in Germany. Avoid the German system in toto, but get the ultimate approval of fans for the really big things
More leftfield: accuse the Americans of WITCHCRAFT
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
Good grief yes. Many a promising conversation has been ruined that way. Foreigner: Where are you from? Cookie: England Foreigner: Whereabouts? Cookie: Manchester. Foreigner: Ah, Manchester United! ... or, slightly more returnable: Foreigner: Are you a Manchester United fan? Cookie: [trying to be polite]: Not really, no. Foreigner: Ah, Manchester City then? Cookie: No, Stockport County. Foreigner: ?
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
Interesting that the LibDems hsve picked up a bit.after a long period deep in the doldrums. Getting some reward for making dubious noises on lockdown, or just more visible as there are elections going on?
Yes.
Just seen @NickPalmer 's comment. 'Dubious noises'. Ha!
Frankly, the LDs deserve much more credit than they are getting for beginning to oppose unnecessary and overbearing lockdown proposals. If they hadn't come out against vaxpasses Starmer wouldn't have been forced to get off the fence. Kudos to them.
Lockdowns and restrictions on our fundamental liberties were necessary when rates were high. They are not necessary now; nor are the vax passes which securocrats seem to love the idea of....
Chris Williams @Chris78Williams NEW: A further UEFA mtg will now take place within the next 24 hours. There will be a motion to formally expel Arsenal and Manchester United from the #UEL and Man City, Chelsea and Real Madrid from the #UCL - meeting will also decide how the competitions will be completed.
UCL is quite lucky, 4 of the 8 quarter finalists are breakaway clubs. Disqualify them, reinstate the defeated quarter finalists, and you have semi finals ready to go without too much disruption.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
OK (and I agree- this is a threat designed to win concessions more than a real plan)... Where's the landing zone?
How much more money should the CL clubs get? How much more control of the competition? Critically- how far should the list of CL teams be stabilised (ahem) from year to year to make a product that's attractive to a global TV audience? The concept of (in effect) wildcards for established really big teams has already been swallowed, so how far should that go?
Fun fact- the club that had to make the most applications for re-election to the Football League, and was never actually relegated under those rules? Hartlepool.
I must be one of the few people left alive who saw them beaten 10-1 - a scoreline that flattered them.
In the late 60s I saw Fulham beat Ipswich Town 10-1 on Good Friday and then proceeded to lose 4-2 , three days later at Portman Road.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
Good grief yes. Many a promising conversation has been ruined that way. Foreigner: Where are you from? Cookie: England Foreigner: Whereabouts? Cookie: Manchester. Foreigner: Ah, Manchester United! ... or, slightly more returnable: Foreigner: Are you a Manchester United fan? Cookie: [trying to be polite]: Not really, no. Foreigner: Ah, Manchester City then? Cookie: No, Stockport County. Foreigner: ?
Interesting that the LibDems hsve picked up a bit.after a long period deep in the doldrums. Getting some reward for making dubious noises on lockdown, or just more visible as there are elections going on?
Yes.
Just seen @NickPalmer 's comment. 'Dubious noises'. Ha!
Frankly, the LDs deserve much more credit than they are getting for beginning to oppose unnecessary and overbearing lockdown proposals. If they hadn't come out against vaxpasses Starmer wouldn't have been forced to get off the fence. Kudos to them.
Lockdowns and restrictions on our fundamental liberties were necessary when rates were high. They are not necessary now; nor are the vax passes which securocrats seem to love the idea of....
Yes, a few of us have suggested that liberalism might be a way back for them.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
mufcmpb @mufcMPB The European Super League clubs have decided to transfer their Champions League trophies over to the Super League. Real Madrid will start with 13 Super League championships. #MUFC [@Paul_Tenorio]
Oliver Dowden has pledged to stop this European Super League madness. How does he propose to do this? And will taking their ball home really work?
So far this evening we've had it suggested that the Government could force a change of ownership or alter the ownership structure, but that this could cause more problems than it is worth with the American Government.
The Super League could be made a Category A listed event for television, which would force it to be offered free to air, but that would only affect the rights here and the aim is presumably to make the serious cash in the US and Asia.
The Government could refuse work permits for foreign players joining the Super League clubs, but once the closed shop is created there's nothing to stop them all relocating to places like Dubai and Singapore, and recasting the competition as global rather than European.
In short, the Government can drive the offending clubs out of the country but, unless it wants to risk a fight it can't win with the Americans, it can't shut the thing down absolutely. That would presumably require the governing bodies to expel players in the breakaway clubs from all domestic and international competition, and for the top players then to decide that they would rather retain the ability to play for their countries, and the choice to take their services elsewhere, than spend the rest of their careers trapped inside the Super League as some sort of gilded cage.
This would tend towards the conclusion that it'll basically take Uefa and Fifa not to blink in their opposition, and for the players to care about the consequences of going against them, to properly squash this idea.
Chris Williams @Chris78Williams NEW: A further UEFA mtg will now take place within the next 24 hours. There will be a motion to formally expel Arsenal and Manchester United from the #UEL and Man City, Chelsea and Real Madrid from the #UCL - meeting will also decide how the competitions will be completed.
UCL is quite lucky, 4 of the 8 quarter finalists are breakaway clubs. Disqualify them, reinstate the defeated quarter finalists, and you have semi finals ready to go without too much disruption.
Edit - never mind j just twigged your point. I’m a bit slow.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
You think this is some principled stand against UEFA? Hilarious. This is about greed and nothing else.
Both sides have a point. The great clubs ARE a worldwide brand - Barca, Man U, Real, Bayern, Liverpool
They probably deserve more of the spoils
BUT the leagues and cups are also a storied brand, especially the EPL and UCL - arguably a better brand than any individual club. So they need respecting, too, and a closed shop franchise system is abhorrently inferior as a "replacement"
There must be a middle ground where they can meet, but the debate is now so bitter it could be too late. The clubs did this at an insane time in an insane way, during a pandemic about 5 weeks before the season culminates, guaranteeing a poisonous atmosphere. THEY are entirely to blame for that
They’re not the ‘great’ clubs they’re just the most ‘supported’ and richest clubs. My local semi pro side is older than all the big 6 and has a varied history without ever feeling the need to sell out its regular 400 fans.
Yes, and they don't deserve a greater share of the spoils simply by being a bigger brand. That isn't how sport works. If they want to maximise their brand, they can sell merchandise. No-one's stopping them doing that.
To be honest, it always struck me as slightly unfair that the richest clubs always got all the best players. That's not how it worked in Under 8s rugby - I didn't go swanning off to Macclesfield to 'win things' because Burnage were distinctly average. I actually find it slightly more respectable when players move because another club says they will pay them more money.
mufcmpb @mufcMPB The European Super League clubs have decided to transfer their Champions League trophies over to the Super League. Real Madrid will start with 13 Super League championships. #MUFC [@Paul_Tenorio]
That's laugh out loud funny. Zero points for self-awareness.
Interesting that the LibDems hsve picked up a bit.after a long period deep in the doldrums. Getting some reward for making dubious noises on lockdown, or just more visible as there are elections going on?
Yes.
Just seen @NickPalmer 's comment. 'Dubious noises'. Ha!
Frankly, the LDs deserve much more credit than they are getting for beginning to oppose unnecessary and overbearing lockdown proposals. If they hadn't come out against vaxpasses Starmer wouldn't have been forced to get off the fence. Kudos to them.
Lockdowns and restrictions on our fundamental liberties were necessary when rates were high. They are not necessary now; nor are the vax passes which securocrats seem to love the idea of....
And I think that Ed Day - for the Lib Dems - was first off the mark talking about this football nonsense. Followed by Starmer. And eventually by Johnson, the Conservative Leader.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
Good grief yes. Many a promising conversation has been ruined that way. Foreigner: Where are you from? Cookie: England Foreigner: Whereabouts? Cookie: Manchester. Foreigner: Ah, Manchester United! ... or, slightly more returnable: Foreigner: Are you a Manchester United fan? Cookie: [trying to be polite]: Not really, no. Foreigner: Ah, Manchester City then? Cookie: No, Stockport County. Foreigner: ?
I travelled to Egypt earlier in the century and got:
Egyptian: Where did you fly from? Me: Manchester (airport we used) Egyptian: Ah, I love Manchester United. David Beckham. Me: I support Liverpool. Egyptian: Ah, I love Liverpool. Steven Gerrard.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
There absolutely should be a compromise.
The closed shop is a terrible concept and needs to be dropped - that's a compromise. But the clubs are right that UEFA are deeply flawed and not enough of the money the clubs bring in to UEFA ends up with the clubs.
Or do you think that's wrong and UEFA are whiter than white?
Can you provide a breakdown of how UEFA splits TV money? You're clearly an expert. What part of it do you object to?
My biggest criticism of UEFA's distribution of money is that they've enabled clubs like BATE Borizov to dominate their domestic leagues.
Its in the public domain.
In 2018/19 the Champions League generates €3.25bn per annum of which Liverpool got €111mn for winning the competition. €2bn went to the clubs, €1.25bn did not.
Remember that EUFA also sells the rights to the European Championships.
Where do the EUFA billions go? Not into football, that's for sure.
What is this EUFA thing? Did we vote to leave UEFA and presumably Eurovision as well now?
mufcmpb @mufcMPB The European Super League clubs have decided to transfer their Champions League trophies over to the Super League. Real Madrid will start with 13 Super League championships. #MUFC [@Paul_Tenorio]
mufcmpb @mufcMPB The European Super League clubs have decided to transfer their Champions League trophies over to the Super League. Real Madrid will start with 13 Super League championships. #MUFC [@Paul_Tenorio]
Oliver Dowden has pledged to stop this European Super League madness. How does he propose to do this? And will taking their ball home really work?
He doesn't. He is a member of Liar's cabinet. Get the headline. Move on. The issue itself? Who cares.
Dowden is positioning to be a senior member of a post-Johnson Cabinet. He'll figure out who is going to get the top job and get as close to them as possible.
@Philip_Thompson reckons that the Super League is suddenly going to agree to relegation for all the "founding fathers" as a "compromise" and calls me naive. Lol.
Absolutely possible yes.
If that is what allows it to go ahead. Afterall if it was the same numbers but the Top 6 each year went into the competition rather than the Big 6 then they would qualify almost every year. They would remain much better off than they are with the Champions League, and they'd remain in the new competition almost every year, and they'd remain in the Premier League's good books and they'd win the fans back around. The "cost" of having to qualify isn't that major.
Or there could be a compromise that sees the clubs stay within UEFA but get a better share of the cash.
Or many other compromises. Opening positions very often get softened to get a real compromise when things go ahead.
I agree with Philip on all this, I think some sort of compromise along these lines will be found. The only thing I’d add is that I think the Big Six will want a historical coefficient rather than just a straight-up placings-based qualification.
I don’t actually agree with any of this: I’d have the European Cup as a straight knock out, for example. But I do agree that there will be a compromise.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
Good grief yes. Many a promising conversation has been ruined that way. Foreigner: Where are you from? Cookie: England Foreigner: Whereabouts? Cookie: Manchester. Foreigner: Ah, Manchester United! ... or, slightly more returnable: Foreigner: Are you a Manchester United fan? Cookie: [trying to be polite]: Not really, no. Foreigner: Ah, Manchester City then? Cookie: No, Stockport County. Foreigner: ?
I travelled to Egypt earlier in the century and got:
Egyptian: Where did you fly from? Me: Manchester (airport we used) Egyptian: Ah, I love Manchester United. David Beckham. Me: I support Liverpool. Egyptian: Ah, I love Liverpool. Steven Gerrard.
Once got a taxi drive through deep jungle in Aceh, Indonesia
Told the local driver I was British from London. He replied:
"Ah, English! What do you think about Big Sam Allardyce's transfer policy?"
He knew waaaaaaaaaay more about English football than I have ever known. It was spooky
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
Interesting that the LibDems hsve picked up a bit.after a long period deep in the doldrums. Getting some reward for making dubious noises on lockdown, or just more visible as there are elections going on?
Yes.
Just seen @NickPalmer 's comment. 'Dubious noises'. Ha!
Frankly, the LDs deserve much more credit than they are getting for beginning to oppose unnecessary and overbearing lockdown proposals. If they hadn't come out against vaxpasses Starmer wouldn't have been forced to get off the fence. Kudos to them.
Lockdowns and restrictions on our fundamental liberties were necessary when rates were high. They are not necessary now; nor are the vax passes which securocrats seem to love the idea of....
Yes, I agree (and said something similar earlier, but didn't have my glasses at the time so the comment turned out to be regrettable gibberish).
FWIW my expectation is that a compromise will be made.
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
The automatic qualifies could be clubs which were previous winners during the last decade or three.
Rather like how golfers who have won a tournament get an automatic invite even when they get crap or old.
The trick is going to be to define a mechanism which means that the Arsenals of the world reliably qualify and get reliably enormous sums of money every year without making it too blatant. There must be a set of UEFA coefficients that will do that.
Is there a Spurs trophy cabinet? Buried under dust and cobwebs somewhere?
Ours was last seen on an episode of Antiques Roadshow.
I was 2 when we won the Fairs Cup. 52 years without a trophy.
We really need betting odds on how many threads from yesterday onwards are going to be discussing nothing but football.
About 6 months ago someone predicted a bright day when we’d discuss something here without even thinking about covid. And 18 months ago the same was said of Brexit. Us obsessives need a new obsession every now and then.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
Oliver Dowden has pledged to stop this European Super League madness. How does he propose to do this? And will taking their ball home really work?
He doesn't. He is a member of Liar's cabinet. Get the headline. Move on. The issue itself? Who cares.
Dowden is positioning to be a senior member of a post-Johnson Cabinet. He'll figure out who is going to get the top job and get as close to them as possible.
He was good, in the Commons. Smooth and persuasive, without being obnoxious. Reminded me of a much-less-posh David Cameron
Hah. Checking his Wiki it seems he was an aide to Cameron, Hence the style. But, crucially, went to a comp. Could be a talent
We really need betting odds on how many threads from yesterday onwards are going to be discussing nothing but football.
Do you mean literally nothing but football, or are we going to set a threshold for the percentage of football related comments? The Covid stats, Boris Johnson's BMI and Liberal Democrat policy(!) have received honourable mentions.
We really need betting odds on how many threads from yesterday onwards are going to be discussing nothing but football.
Take it as a positive. We are talking football and how tubby Johnson is, because the pandemic has faded in significance, at least for a bit.
Wife and I were discussingthe same thing earlier. We're also not talking about the royal family or the culture wars. And pleasantly, we're pretty much all on the same side. I mean it can't last, and there's no future in always agreeing. But it does make a refreshing change.
We really need betting odds on how many threads from yesterday onwards are going to be discussing nothing but football.
Makes a change from Brexit and Covid.
Well, I'm off then. I may see you in a few weeks if I'm still around, God willing.
Sorry Cyclefree. I know it's a boring subject if you're not interested in it. Hope all goes well in pursuit of the elusive second vaccine and that daughter's business survives to thrive again. Come back to us when we're being less tedious.
Before I go, what a week for Chuka Umunna to be starting his new job at JP Morgan
"I’m delighted to be starting at J.P. Morgan today as a Managing Director and Head of ESG across the bank’s operations in Europe, the Middle East and Africa (EMEA). In this role I will be co-ordinating and integrating JP Morgan’s ESG strategy across the EMEA region, and helping the bank and its clients to incorporate environmental, social and governance factors (ESG) into their operations and businesses, enhancing long term value."
I once met a Mancunian who claimed he supported Manchester United.
Didn't believe him for a second.
Unpopular opinion. Man Utd's away fans are, by a considerable margin, the best in the Premier League.
I think that probably true. Most away supporters are pretty fanatical, but Man United away fans are pretty vocal. Except when we came back from being 3-1 down to beat them 5-3 in 2014. They went pretty quiet then.
We really need betting odds on how many threads from yesterday onwards are going to be discussing nothing but football.
Do you mean literally nothing but football, or are we going to set a threshold for the percentage of football related comments? The Covid stats, Boris Johnson's BMI and Liberal Democrat policy(!) have received honourable mentions.
Also, have we done the helicopter on Mars yet?
The only betting angle on the last one is whether it has found Elvis alive.
We really need betting odds on how many threads from yesterday onwards are going to be discussing nothing but football.
To be fair, room has also been made for vital discussion of the Girther Conspiracy concerning the PM’s true BMI. Spread bets on the extent of Boris' middle-aged spread will be available...
And other posters are right. It is oddly nice, even for non-fans like me, for something as bloody normal as football to be the main topic of the day.
Also, if he and Boris can visibly break the Superleague, they really will get a significant poll boost, and be remembered favourably by many
First, they won't do it alone even though they may try to claim the credit.
Second, IF the Super League dies this week, it'll be forgotten by next week and if it survives and prospers, will there be a slump in Johnson's fortunes - "he might have beaten the virus but he couldn't stop the destruction of football" ?
Interesting that the LibDems hsve picked up a bit.after a long period deep in the doldrums. Getting some reward for making dubious noises on lockdown, or just more visible as there are elections going on?
Yes.
Just seen @NickPalmer 's comment. 'Dubious noises'. Ha!
Frankly, the LDs deserve much more credit than they are getting for beginning to oppose unnecessary and overbearing lockdown proposals. If they hadn't come out against vaxpasses Starmer wouldn't have been forced to get off the fence. Kudos to them.
Lockdowns and restrictions on our fundamental liberties were necessary when rates were high. They are not necessary now; nor are the vax passes which securocrats seem to love the idea of....
Yes, I agree (and said something similar earlier, but didn't have my glasses at the time so the comment turned out to be regrettable gibberish).
Amateur. I'm perfectly capable of writing regrettable gibberish even with my glasses.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Interesting that the LibDems hsve picked up a bit.after a long period deep in the doldrums. Getting some reward for making dubious noises on lockdown, or just more visible as there are elections going on?
Yes.
Just seen @NickPalmer 's comment. 'Dubious noises'. Ha!
Frankly, the LDs deserve much more credit than they are getting for beginning to oppose unnecessary and overbearing lockdown proposals. If they hadn't come out against vaxpasses Starmer wouldn't have been forced to get off the fence. Kudos to them.
Lockdowns and restrictions on our fundamental liberties were necessary when rates were high. They are not necessary now; nor are the vax passes which securocrats seem to love the idea of....
Yes, I agree (and said something similar earlier, but didn't have my glasses at the time so the comment turned out to be regrettable gibberish).
First time I have paid any attention to LibDems in recent months was when they came out with no equivocation on vaxports.
Unlike Starmer. I've no idea what his position is now, but no doubt it will have changed again by the time I find out.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
Spoken like a real litigator
He's not wrong though - the Greedy 6 do stuff similar to this every few years, tilting things ever more towards themselves (more money, more places, (and in the CL reforms, automatic qualification) any compromise reached this year will be the new starting point for 'negotiations' in 3 years time, where the Greedy 6 will do the same again.
By them declaring a Super League it gives the Govt, and the other 14 massive cover to go full scorched earth to stop and reverse this. Boot them out of the PL, refuse them visas, ban them from participating in any other football tournament, and the Govt. need to make it very clear that if so much as 1 ball is kicked in anger in the league, then sales of the clubs will be forced. Greedy bullies don't respect appeasers, only power.
Before I go, what a week for Chuka Umunna to be starting his new job at JP Morgan
"I’m delighted to be starting at J.P. Morgan today as a Managing Director and Head of ESG across the bank’s operations in Europe, the Middle East and Africa (EMEA). In this role I will be co-ordinating and integrating JP Morgan’s ESG strategy across the EMEA region, and helping the bank and its clients to incorporate environmental, social and governance factors (ESG) into their operations and businesses, enhancing long term value."
I once met a Mancunian who claimed he supported Manchester United.
Didn't believe him for a second.
Manchester United who play in the borough of Trafford and whose training ground used to be in the City of Salford? The only modern link to Manchester is the name.
Not sure if @williamglenn is around, but I remembered something he said (at last I think it was him!) at the start of the pandemic. I can't remember what it was precisely, but it was something like "someone will try to take advantage of this", thinking more about geopolitics. Well, the dirty dozen have certainly done that. It would have been that much harder to do this with fans at games.
Hopefully Mr Glenn's prophecy does not come true regarding geopolitics...
Before I go, what a week for Chuka Umunna to be starting his new job at JP Morgan
"I’m delighted to be starting at J.P. Morgan today as a Managing Director and Head of ESG across the bank’s operations in Europe, the Middle East and Africa (EMEA). In this role I will be co-ordinating and integrating JP Morgan’s ESG strategy across the EMEA region, and helping the bank and its clients to incorporate environmental, social and governance factors (ESG) into their operations and businesses, enhancing long term value."
Rat joining a sinking ship?
He always was a bad judge of which way the wind was about to blow.
Look, if Klopp (or any other manager) resigns in the next few days I'll give them a lot of credit.
But actions, not words, are what count.
Neville understands nuance and context.
You don't.
There is nothing nuanced about the situation. As long as these clubs are owned by their scumbag owners, they deserve to be given both barrels.
Because Klopp likes to do things behind the scenes.
A few months in to his reign FSG wanted to increase some ticket prices to £77, he pretty much backed the fans, and it was reported at the time he privately spoke to the owners about it, and they took action to reverse it.
He's not a Mourinho and starts public rows.
FSG know the value of club has gone from £500 million from when Klopp was appointed to over £2 billion, largely thanks to Klopp, they will listen to his private conversations with him.
He has a fantastically close relation with Mike Gordon.
You reckon he can talk them out of this?
Yes.
I expect there'll be much huffing and puffing, but a compromise reached.
Its in all parties interests to reach a compromise.
There should be no "compromise". There's nothing to compromise on. They either need to shut up or f*ck off.
Before I go, what a week for Chuka Umunna to be starting his new job at JP Morgan
"I’m delighted to be starting at J.P. Morgan today as a Managing Director and Head of ESG across the bank’s operations in Europe, the Middle East and Africa (EMEA). In this role I will be co-ordinating and integrating JP Morgan’s ESG strategy across the EMEA region, and helping the bank and its clients to incorporate environmental, social and governance factors (ESG) into their operations and businesses, enhancing long term value."
The job description sounds a perfect match to Chuka's vacuity.
Of course, the most famous pol working for JP Morgan is our old friend, Lord Schmooze,
FWIW my expectation is that a compromise will be made.
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
The automatic qualifies could be clubs which were previous winners during the last decade or three.
Rather like how golfers who have won a tournament get an automatic invite even when they get crap or old.
The trick is going to be to define a mechanism which means that the Arsenals of the world reliably qualify and get reliably enormous sums of money every year without making it too blatant. There must be a set of UEFA coefficients that will do that.
No, the trick is going to be peeling Liverpool, Man United and one of Madrid or Barca away. If UEFA can do that the whole thing is dead. No one cares if Arsenal (or Spurs) try and break away then. The whole thing rests on three of those four clubs, get any three and it's over.
Incidentally @kinabalu Johnson is 5'9" and 14.5 stone isn't even obese for someone 5'9".
More than one in four British adults are obese. I would definitely count Johnson within that 1 in 4, wouldn't you?
17.5 not 14.5.
And he's five nine in his Cubans.
Yes I would think he was a liar if he said he was 14.5 stone at his heaviest. He was definitely obese at his heaviest and 14.5 stone is not obese.
17.5 stone is believable. 14.5 stone is not.
If by 14.5 stone you mean 14 stone and 7 lbs (which is 14 1/2 stone) then according to the NHS calculator that is officially obese. Just admittedly but it is never the less.
At 5'9" ?
I put that into the calculator and it came to BMI 29.0 which is not obese. 30+ is obese.
Johnson is at least 5'10" from what I've read.
I’ve met him twice. He is no way that tall.
Not doubting you, but when you look at photos of Johnson and Cameron together, Johnson looks about 2 inches shorter, and Cameron was supposed to be 6 feet tall.
I have no idea with Cameron, I’ve not met him. Boris is the only PM I have met (twice, prior to his being PM, both as mayor of London)
For what it’s worth (assuming you believe I’ve stood near them and why would you?) I think you’re right. I’m 5’ 9” - Cameron was noticeably taller than me. Boris is not. Nor is he noticeably shorter.
When Cammo had me round to number ten for drinks, he seems about my height, so six foot.
He was smaller than that when he came round to my gaffe 😉
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
Good grief yes. Many a promising conversation has been ruined that way. Foreigner: Where are you from? Cookie: England Foreigner: Whereabouts? Cookie: Manchester. Foreigner: Ah, Manchester United! ... or, slightly more returnable: Foreigner: Are you a Manchester United fan? Cookie: [trying to be polite]: Not really, no. Foreigner: Ah, Manchester City then? Cookie: No, Stockport County. Foreigner: ?
I travelled to Egypt earlier in the century and got:
Egyptian: Where did you fly from? Me: Manchester (airport we used) Egyptian: Ah, I love Manchester United. David Beckham. Me: I support Liverpool. Egyptian: Ah, I love Liverpool. Steven Gerrard.
Once got a taxi drive through deep jungle in Aceh, Indonesia
Told the local driver I was British from London. He replied:
"Ah, English! What do you think about Big Sam Allardyce's transfer policy?"
He knew waaaaaaaaaay more about English football than I have ever known. It was spooky
I once met a Mancunian who claimed he supported Manchester United.
Didn't believe him for a second.
Manchester United who play in the borough of Trafford and whose training ground used to be in the City of Salford? The only modern link to Manchester is the name.
The name? Newton Heath Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway FC
I once met a Mancunian who claimed he supported Manchester United.
Didn't believe him for a second.
Manchester United who play in the borough of Trafford and whose training ground used to be in the City of Salford? The only modern link to Manchester is the name.
The madder of my City-supporting friends - unable to even bring themselves to utter the words Manchester United during the nadir of the Ferguson era - used to refer to them as Trafford Rangers. But it's a bit harsh: they started life as Newton Heath which is unquestionably in Manchester. And Old Trafford might be in the borough of Trafford, but it's, what, 2 miles from Manchester City Centre. It's only as unMancunian as Nottingham Forest (Rushcliffe Brough) is unNottinghamian.
I actually (well until yesterday) quite like Man Utd these days. OGS is much more likeable than Alex Ferguson. And my next door neighbour was on the fringes of the first team, until he got loaned out last year.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Incidentally @kinabalu Johnson is 5'9" and 14.5 stone isn't even obese for someone 5'9".
More than one in four British adults are obese. I would definitely count Johnson within that 1 in 4, wouldn't you?
17.5 not 14.5.
And he's five nine in his Cubans.
Yes I would think he was a liar if he said he was 14.5 stone at his heaviest. He was definitely obese at his heaviest and 14.5 stone is not obese.
17.5 stone is believable. 14.5 stone is not.
If by 14.5 stone you mean 14 stone and 7 lbs (which is 14 1/2 stone) then according to the NHS calculator that is officially obese. Just admittedly but it is never the less.
At 5'9" ?
I put that into the calculator and it came to BMI 29.0 which is not obese. 30+ is obese.
Johnson is at least 5'10" from what I've read.
I’ve met him twice. He is no way that tall.
Not doubting you, but when you look at photos of Johnson and Cameron together, Johnson looks about 2 inches shorter, and Cameron was supposed to be 6 feet tall.
I have no idea with Cameron, I’ve not met him. Boris is the only PM I have met (twice, prior to his being PM, both as mayor of London)
For what it’s worth (assuming you believe I’ve stood near them and why would you?) I think you’re right. I’m 5’ 9” - Cameron was noticeably taller than me. Boris is not. Nor is he noticeably shorter.
When Cammo had me round to number ten for drinks, he seems about my height, so six foot.
He was smaller than that when he came round to my gaffe 😉
I found it difficult to judge his height, when he was polishing my shoes.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Yes, absolutely. Plastics and glory hunters are the worst part of football. Being a Spurs supporter has given me some of the worst moments of my existence and some of the most exhilarating (beating Man City in the champion's league, for example). But win or lose I was there with my dad at almost every home game over the last 6 seasons pre lockdown. Now we're both done. This is ruining football, it's literally a league for plastics and glory hunters who don't care about what happens on the pitch but just want to say they support the biggest club.
Before I go, what a week for Chuka Umunna to be starting his new job at JP Morgan
"I’m delighted to be starting at J.P. Morgan today as a Managing Director and Head of ESG across the bank’s operations in Europe, the Middle East and Africa (EMEA). In this role I will be co-ordinating and integrating JP Morgan’s ESG strategy across the EMEA region, and helping the bank and its clients to incorporate environmental, social and governance factors (ESG) into their operations and businesses, enhancing long term value."
Should help Chuka build his City credentials with the Tory Remain voters he needs to win Cities of London and Westminster, in 2019 he was just 3,953 votes behind the winning Tory candidate Nickie Aiken and it is now the 14th top LD target seat for the 2024 general election
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Its wrong to assume people are glory hunters though. Often people have a familial or other connection.
I'm from Merseyside originally and have always supported Tranmere and Liverpool as a result. All my family supports Tranmere and Liverpool or Tranmere and Everton.
I've since moved away from Merseyside but not changed my clubs, why should I?
My daughters have never lived in Merseyside but support "Livempool" as my youngest calls them because they're "daddy's team". They don't often see me watching Tranmere on TV as they're very rarely televised, and if they are its normally midweek after their bedtime anyway.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Wasn't really an option for me.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Most of the PB ‘Scousers’ on here have sod-all connection with Liverpool. I think Philip is the only one who is from Merseyside!
Interesting that the LibDems hsve picked up a bit.after a long period deep in the doldrums. Getting some reward for making dubious noises on lockdown, or just more visible as there are elections going on?
Yes.
Just seen @NickPalmer 's comment. 'Dubious noises'. Ha!
Frankly, the LDs deserve much more credit than they are getting for beginning to oppose unnecessary and overbearing lockdown proposals. If they hadn't come out against vaxpasses Starmer wouldn't have been forced to get off the fence. Kudos to them.
Lockdowns and restrictions on our fundamental liberties were necessary when rates were high. They are not necessary now; nor are the vax passes which securocrats seem to love the idea of....
Yes, I agree (and said something similar earlier, but didn't have my glasses at the time so the comment turned out to be regrettable gibberish).
First time I have paid any attention to LibDems in recent months was when they came out with no equivocation on vaxports.
Unlike Starmer. I've no idea what his position is now, but no doubt it will have changed again by the time I find out.
I’ll lend the Liberals my vote, thanks to them at least making the case for civil liberties. What does @NickPalmer find so “dubious” about that?
Before I go, what a week for Chuka Umunna to be starting his new job at JP Morgan
"I’m delighted to be starting at J.P. Morgan today as a Managing Director and Head of ESG across the bank’s operations in Europe, the Middle East and Africa (EMEA). In this role I will be co-ordinating and integrating JP Morgan’s ESG strategy across the EMEA region, and helping the bank and its clients to incorporate environmental, social and governance factors (ESG) into their operations and businesses, enhancing long term value."
Should help Chuka build his City credentials with the Tory Remain voters he needs to win Cities of London and Westminster, in 2019 he was just 3,953 votes behind the winning Tory candidate Nickie Aiken and it is now the 14th top LD target seat for the 2024 general election
Seems from the (non) job title that JP Morgan have some hopes of a return to some sort of political career for Ummuna.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Trouble with that is that you get lumbered with a terrible football club. At least supporting Swindon since 1985 has been *interesting*...
FWIW my expectation is that a compromise will be made.
A 48 or 64 team Champions League with maybe a dozen automatic qualifiers, regardless of league position.
The simple truth for UEFA and the clubs is that the current tv schedule doesn't maximise revenue.
Playing on Tuesday and Wednesday nights depresses the value of the American and Asian TV rights.
So I wouldn't be surprised to see the CL move to the weekend.
Kicks offs at 12pm, 3pm, 5.30pm, and 7.30pm on Saturdays and Sundays will increase the value of the TV rights in America and Asia. Which means more money for UEFA and the clubs.
The automatic qualifies could be clubs which were previous winners during the last decade or three.
Rather like how golfers who have won a tournament get an automatic invite even when they get crap or old.
The trick is going to be to define a mechanism which means that the Arsenals of the world reliably qualify and get reliably enormous sums of money every year without making it too blatant. There must be a set of UEFA coefficients that will do that.
Is there a Spurs trophy cabinet? Buried under dust and cobwebs somewhere?
Ours was last seen on an episode of Antiques Roadshow.
I was 2 when we won the Fairs Cup. 52 years without a trophy.
Talking of taking your bat and ball home...I see mini Trump is planning to allow Americans to travel to France, but not the British... Can't risk all those quasi vaccinated folk into your country.
I once met a Mancunian who claimed he supported Manchester United.
Didn't believe him for a second.
Manchester United who play in the borough of Trafford and whose training ground used to be in the City of Salford? The only modern link to Manchester is the name.
The madder of my City-supporting friends - unable to even bring themselves to utter the words Manchester United during the nadir of the Ferguson era - used to refer to them as Trafford Rangers. But it's a bit harsh: they started life as Newton Heath which is unquestionably in Manchester. And Old Trafford might be in the borough of Trafford, but it's, what, 2 miles from Manchester City Centre. It's only as unMancunian as Nottingham Forest (Rushcliffe Brough) is unNottinghamian.
I actually (well until yesterday) quite like Man Utd these days. OGS is much more likeable than Alex Ferguson. And my next door neighbour was on the fringes of the first team, until he got loaned out last year.
Yes, this is the extreme geographical pedantry of the Man City and Notts County fan: “one club in Nottingham” (yawn).
Both Forest and United reside in the cities they are named after. Bonkers local authority boundaries notwithstanding.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Wasn't really an option for me.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
Why not an option? In Sheffield, you even have a choice!
Before I go, what a week for Chuka Umunna to be starting his new job at JP Morgan
"I’m delighted to be starting at J.P. Morgan today as a Managing Director and Head of ESG across the bank’s operations in Europe, the Middle East and Africa (EMEA). In this role I will be co-ordinating and integrating JP Morgan’s ESG strategy across the EMEA region, and helping the bank and its clients to incorporate environmental, social and governance factors (ESG) into their operations and businesses, enhancing long term value."
Should help Chuka build his City credentials with the Tory Remain voters he needs to win Cities of London and Westminster, in 2019 he was just 3,953 votes behind the winning Tory candidate Nickie Aiken and it is now the 14th top LD target seat for the 2024 general election
Seems from the (non) job title that JP Morgan have some hopes of a return to some sort of political career for Ummuna.
If 2024 is a repeat of 2010 and it ends up a hung parliament with the LDs holding the balance of power, if Ummuna does win Cities of London and Westminster he could even end up in Starmer's Cabinet
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Its wrong to assume people are glory hunters though. Often people have a familial or other connection.
I'm from Merseyside originally and have always supported Tranmere and Liverpool as a result. All my family supports Tranmere and Liverpool or Tranmere and Everton.
I've since moved away from Merseyside but not changed my clubs, why should I?
My daughters have never lived in Merseyside but support "Livempool" as my youngest calls them because they're "daddy's team". They don't often see me watching Tranmere on TV as they're very rarely televised, and if they are its normally midweek after their bedtime anyway.
I always find it strange when somebody supports the team from the city where they went to University. Like, what were you doing for the previous 18 years?
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Wasn't really an option for me.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
Don’t see how it’s not an option, but the alternative to not supporting your hometown team shouldn’t just be supporting a team because they’re on the tv loads and win trophies.
Super League Liverpool can't even beat Leeds United. Very amusing.
I bet Bielsa has no time for.a money grab super league....the man who lives in a small flat in a quiet village, refuses to be driven to training and who insists he isn't paid the millions different to his staff, rather that a total fee is paid for the whole coaching team.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Its wrong to assume people are glory hunters though. Often people have a familial or other connection.
I'm from Merseyside originally and have always supported Tranmere and Liverpool as a result. All my family supports Tranmere and Liverpool or Tranmere and Everton.
I've since moved away from Merseyside but not changed my clubs, why should I?
My daughters have never lived in Merseyside but support "Livempool" as my youngest calls them because they're "daddy's team". They don't often see me watching Tranmere on TV as they're very rarely televised, and if they are its normally midweek after their bedtime anyway.
I don't often assume, usually a friendly 'how'd you come to start supporting them?' 'planning on going to a game soon?' (in non-covid times) is enough to get a very good clue.
Yes, some people do have familial connections, and occasionally they are genuine (in the past couple of years, a lot of people I know seem to have discovered that their great granduncle once nicked the hubcaps off a car near Liverpool). I have no problem with people supporting a team from where they grew up, or even where their parent grew up if they attend matches occasionally.
I should mention that the bulk of my opprobrium is reserved for those that flit between direct competitors (such as an acquaintance who has discovered that three of his four grandparents supported Man U, Man City, and Liverpool, which apparently gives him the right to support whichever one is dominant at the time).
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Wasn't really an option for me.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
Why not an option? In Sheffield, you even have a choice!
I'm a child of the 80s.
80s football support was plagued with violence, hooliganism, and racism.
So my father never took me to any football matches because of those, so the only football I could see was on TV, in those days there were about 20 matches live a season, and Liverpool featured in about 19 of them. Sheffields Wednesday and United were not on TV.
As a four year old they became my team because my father followed them to an extent.
Everyone is up in arms about their precious football team being sold out by globalised capitalists trying to stitch up a cosy cartel to rip off the public while inflicting long term damage to the social fabric of the game.
If only they cared as much about how those kleptocratic oligarchs made their money in the first place, and how much else similar plutocrats are getting away with in other domains of life.
Super League Liverpool can't even beat Leeds United. Very amusing.
I bet Bielsa has no time for.a money grab super league....the man who lives in a small flat in a quiet village, refuses to be driven to training and who insists he isn't paid the millions different to his staff, rather that a total fee is paid for the whole coaching team.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
I once met a Japanese Sheffield Wednesday fan.
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
You should start supporting your home town football club!
Wasn't really an option for me.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
Don’t see how it’s not an option, but the alternative to not supporting your hometown team shouldn’t just be supporting a team because they’re on the tv loads and win trophies.
Not all "home towns" have a football club for starters.
Warrington hasn't got a professional football club, but is sandwiched between Liverpool and Manchester so roughly half the town support Liverpool and roughly half support Manchester, with everyone supporting the Wire for the Rugby.
Possibly one of the most boring pieces of small talk a foreigner can make to you anyone in the world is telling you they're a "fan of Manchester United", and then grinning inanely and expecting to you to be impressed.
I mean, really, Change the record.
I live for the day one of them surprises me by saying they support Crewe Alexandra or Plymouth Argyle.
There's no more obvious a sign of endemic failures in someone's character than glory supporting in tribal team sports, and that goes triply so for UK-born Big 6 glory supporters, never leave your back exposed to them.
I do feel sorry for Man U fans who support them because they are the local team.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Yes, I can imagine that life is quite tough for both of them!
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Yes, absolutely. Plastics and glory hunters are the worst part of football. Being a Spurs supporter has given me some of the worst moments of my existence and some of the most exhilarating (beating Man City in the champion's league, for example). But win or lose I was there with my dad at almost every home game over the last 6 seasons pre lockdown. Now we're both done. This is ruining football, it's literally a league for plastics and glory hunters who don't care about what happens on the pitch but just want to say they support the biggest club.
Yep, the Super League isn't meant for the English 'legacy' fans, as JP Morgan put it, but for the new Asian and American plastics.
I am quite certain that our 2005-06 106 point season, followed up by coming 1 point off of Europe in our first ever Premier League Campaign provided me with far more joy and happy memories than any glory supporter has ever felt because of football.
Comments
That would be a compromise. The big 6 drop the "reserved for us" unsporting idea and accept the principle of it being "whoever they may be" while ensuring that if they do well (which they do often enough) they're getting a bigger share of the loot.
Incidentally UEFA put the breakdown of money on their own website here: https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/news/0253-0e99cd398188-f80e968d0ab3-1000--how-clubs-2019-20-uefa-champions-league-revenue-will-be-shared/
As I said before, the UCL raises €3.25bn in revenue, of which even the winner got just 3.4% of the cash. When even the winner is getting just 3.4% of the revenue the competition is making, its certainly possible to come up with ways the clubs can get more cash as a compromise.
One possible compromise would be to weight the payments more depending upon stage so that those who reach the last 16 and later get a higher share of the revenue - again whoever they may be. The big clubs can then expect more revenue since they generally make the last 16, but they do so based upon performances on the field.
I am sure HMG's assembled lawmakers and QCs could come up with enough wheezes to make the ESL deeply problematic, and mired in legal controversy, such that sponsors take fright, even if they don't win in the end (tho I believe they would win in some areas)
The visa thing is the first place to start. No more foreign players. That is the choice of HMG. Easily done
Also we won't license your games, either. Try policing THAT
And how about: a new form of ownership for all professional teams where all constitutional decisions (eg new competitions) must be approved by a 50+1 system, as in Germany. Avoid the German system in toto, but get the ultimate approval of fans for the really big things
More leftfield: accuse the Americans of WITCHCRAFT
Foreigner: Where are you from?
Cookie: England
Foreigner: Whereabouts?
Cookie: Manchester.
Foreigner: Ah, Manchester United!
...
or, slightly more returnable:
Foreigner: Are you a Manchester United fan?
Cookie: [trying to be polite]: Not really, no.
Foreigner: Ah, Manchester City then?
Cookie: No, Stockport County.
Foreigner: ?
Came all the way over from Japan to see the club.
Frankly, the LDs deserve much more credit than they are getting for beginning to oppose unnecessary and overbearing lockdown proposals. If they hadn't come out against vaxpasses Starmer wouldn't have been forced to get off the fence. Kudos to them.
Lockdowns and restrictions on our fundamental liberties were necessary when rates were high. They are not necessary now; nor are the vax passes which securocrats seem to love the idea of....
It happens all the time!
Looks like it is, funnily enough.
One of the cringiest things I've ever read.
https://twitter.com/mufcMPB/status/1384233805972598793
mufcmpb
@mufcMPB
The European Super League clubs have decided to transfer their Champions League trophies over to the Super League. Real Madrid will start with 13 Super League championships. #MUFC [@Paul_Tenorio]
The Super League could be made a Category A listed event for television, which would force it to be offered free to air, but that would only affect the rights here and the aim is presumably to make the serious cash in the US and Asia.
The Government could refuse work permits for foreign players joining the Super League clubs, but once the closed shop is created there's nothing to stop them all relocating to places like Dubai and Singapore, and recasting the competition as global rather than European.
In short, the Government can drive the offending clubs out of the country but, unless it wants to risk a fight it can't win with the Americans, it can't shut the thing down absolutely. That would presumably require the governing bodies to expel players in the breakaway clubs from all domestic and international competition, and for the top players then to decide that they would rather retain the ability to play for their countries, and the choice to take their services elsewhere, than spend the rest of their careers trapped inside the Super League as some sort of gilded cage.
This would tend towards the conclusion that it'll basically take Uefa and Fifa not to blink in their opposition, and for the players to care about the consequences of going against them, to properly squash this idea.
If they want to maximise their brand, they can sell merchandise. No-one's stopping them doing that.
To be honest, it always struck me as slightly unfair that the richest clubs always got all the best players. That's not how it worked in Under 8s rugby - I didn't go swanning off to Macclesfield to 'win things' because Burnage were distinctly average.
I actually find it slightly more respectable when players move because another club says they will pay them more money.
Zero points for self-awareness.
Egyptian: Where did you fly from?
Me: Manchester (airport we used)
Egyptian: Ah, I love Manchester United. David Beckham.
Me: I support Liverpool.
Egyptian: Ah, I love Liverpool. Steven Gerrard.
Didn't believe him for a second.
I don’t actually agree with any of this: I’d have the European Cup as a straight knock out, for example. But I do agree that there will be a compromise.
Told the local driver I was British from London. He replied:
"Ah, English! What do you think about Big Sam Allardyce's transfer policy?"
He knew waaaaaaaaaay more about English football than I have ever known. It was spooky
I was 2 when we won the Fairs Cup. 52 years without a trophy.
Hah. Checking his Wiki it seems he was an aide to Cameron, Hence the style. But, crucially, went to a comp. Could be a talent
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oliver_Dowden
Also, if he and Boris can visibly break the Superleague, they really will get a significant poll boost, and be remembered favourably by many
Also, have we done the helicopter on Mars yet?
And pleasantly, we're pretty much all on the same side.
I mean it can't last, and there's no future in always agreeing. But it does make a refreshing change.
"I’m delighted to be starting at J.P. Morgan today as a Managing Director and Head of ESG across the bank’s operations in Europe, the Middle East and Africa (EMEA). In this role I will be co-ordinating and integrating JP Morgan’s ESG strategy across the EMEA region, and helping the bank and its clients to incorporate environmental, social and governance factors (ESG) into their operations and businesses, enhancing long term value."
And other posters are right. It is oddly nice, even for non-fans like me, for something as bloody normal as football to be the main topic of the day.
A few years ago at Anfield I heard them chant that Arsene Wenger's a paedo.
Second, IF the Super League dies this week, it'll be forgotten by next week and if it survives and prospers, will there be a slump in Johnson's fortunes - "he might have beaten the virus but he couldn't stop the destruction of football" ?
No, I don't think so either.
I wonder if this is a British thing to distrust people who support successful teams? I canonly imagine American would be baffled by this attitude. I don't know if Europeans celebrate underdogs?
Unlike Starmer. I've no idea what his position is now, but no doubt it will have changed again by the time I find out.
By them declaring a Super League it gives the Govt, and the other 14 massive cover to go full scorched earth to stop and reverse this. Boot them out of the PL, refuse them visas, ban them from participating in any other football tournament, and the Govt. need to make it very clear that if so much as 1 ball is kicked in anger in the league, then sales of the clubs will be forced. Greedy bullies don't respect appeasers, only power.
Hopefully Mr Glenn's prophecy does not come true regarding geopolitics...
Indeed this time ten years ago the campaign for the first of the Referendum Trilogy (AV/Scottish Independence/EU Membership) was in full swing.
I think we really need a thread header about this so we can all relive all our AV referendum "highlights". How about it TSE?
Of course, the most famous pol working for JP Morgan is our old friend, Lord Schmooze,
That is, Anthony Charles Lynton Blair.
I actually (well until yesterday) quite like Man Utd these days. OGS is much more likeable than Alex Ferguson. And my next door neighbour was on the fringes of the first team, until he got loaned out last year.
Yes 2 AV = 32%
For me if someone is a glory-supporter it just seems to be indicative of someone who will happily turn their backs on their local community, would rather take the easy path in life, and, if they switch teams, that their allegiance can be bought for a song. All traits that I believe are significant negatives in an individual. If sport is a microcosm of society, then sporting allegiances are a window into a person's core ethics, even if they don't realise it.
Words not uttered by Rob Hawthorne.
I'm from Merseyside originally and have always supported Tranmere and Liverpool as a result. All my family supports Tranmere and Liverpool or Tranmere and Everton.
I've since moved away from Merseyside but not changed my clubs, why should I?
My daughters have never lived in Merseyside but support "Livempool" as my youngest calls them because they're "daddy's team". They don't often see me watching Tranmere on TV as they're very rarely televised, and if they are its normally midweek after their bedtime anyway.
I was thinking earlier based on a conversation with Cookie earlier, if I hadn't supported Liverpool it is very likely I would not have met my wife.
It ain't out of the question...
Both Forest and United reside in the cities they are named after. Bonkers local authority boundaries notwithstanding.
"European Super League: Liverpool boss Jurgen Klopp against idea"
He was crystal clear to me. Good for him. 👍
Yes, some people do have familial connections, and occasionally they are genuine (in the past couple of years, a lot of people I know seem to have discovered that their great granduncle once nicked the hubcaps off a car near Liverpool). I have no problem with people supporting a team from where they grew up, or even where their parent grew up if they attend matches occasionally.
I should mention that the bulk of my opprobrium is reserved for those that flit between direct competitors (such as an acquaintance who has discovered that three of his four grandparents supported Man U, Man City, and Liverpool, which apparently gives him the right to support whichever one is dominant at the time).
80s football support was plagued with violence, hooliganism, and racism.
So my father never took me to any football matches because of those, so the only football I could see was on TV, in those days there were about 20 matches live a season, and Liverpool featured in about 19 of them. Sheffields Wednesday and United were not on TV.
As a four year old they became my team because my father followed them to an extent.
If only they cared as much about how those kleptocratic oligarchs made their money in the first place, and how much else similar plutocrats are getting away with in other domains of life.
Warrington hasn't got a professional football club, but is sandwiched between Liverpool and Manchester so roughly half the town support Liverpool and roughly half support Manchester, with everyone supporting the Wire for the Rugby.
I am quite certain that our 2005-06 106 point season, followed up by coming 1 point off of Europe in our first ever Premier League Campaign provided me with far more joy and happy memories than any glory supporter has ever felt because of football.