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The extraordinary range of views of Nicola Sturgeon – politicalbetting.com

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  • David Blevins of Sky reporting that it is recreational rioting from young people from deprived areas, having been in lockdown for a year with nothing better to-do

    Now BigG. I have left for the day, and there may be a grain of truth in that assertion, but you also have consider what else has given them the excuse to riot.

    Here in Wales we have been locked down since December, with little sign of improvement. When the disaffected of South Wales marched on the Senedd last week to lynch Drakeford they left beer cans and chip wrappers in their wake, not burned out buses.
    Blevins seemed to be of the opinion it is the young rebelling against one year lockdown and of course it has connections to the troubles but that was not the underlying cause
    Normally you moan non stop about Sky News and their team being rubbish, now you want to accept their word as gospel.
    With respect I am quoting their NI journalist

    I can only repeat what he says, are you saying his reporting is untrue or just having a go at me
    But you persistently criticise Sky News, heck yesterday you were saying they were going to lose so many viewers to GB News.

    So you only like Sky News when they agree with you, noted.
  • David Blevins of Sky reporting that it is recreational rioting from young people from deprived areas, having been in lockdown for a year with nothing better to-do

    Now BigG. I have left for the day, and there may be a grain of truth in that assertion, but you also have consider what else has given them the excuse to riot.

    Here in Wales we have been locked down since December, with little sign of improvement. When the disaffected of South Wales marched on the Senedd last week to lynch Drakeford they left beer cans and chip wrappers in their wake, not burned out buses.
    Blevins seemed to be of the opinion it is the young rebelling against one year lockdown and of course it has connections to the troubles but that was not the underlying cause
    Normally you moan non stop about Sky News and their team being rubbish, now you want to accept their word as gospel.
    With respect I am quoting their NI journalist

    I can only repeat what he says, are you saying his reporting is untrue or just having a go at me
    Surely the point is that you rubbish what they say when it disagrees with your worldview and praise what they say when it agrees with your worldview.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Charles said:

    The fundamental assumptions underpinning the GFA are no longer valid

    Rather than stretching and straining to keep it intact it would be better to develop a new solution to achieve its objectives

    If that is true, then it is equally true to say the fundamental assumptions underpinning Brexit are no longer valid

    Rather than stretching and straining to keep it intact it would be better to develop a new solution

    https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1379412621921812482
    Ooh! You think you are clever! Clever boy made a funny!

    No. The GFA is predicated on the assumption that both the UK and the RoI are members of the EU. That is not the case anymore.
    Which was obvious all along and emphasises the point that far too little attention was paid to the issue during the period 2016-19. Johnson himself demonstrated total irresponsibility over the issue, either blatantly lying or being pig-ignorant of what he was saying.
    No he didn't.

    He tried to suggest alternative solutions, the EU were not interested as they wanted to solely prioritise their own interests of maintaining the "integrity" of the Single Market. The responsibility for this lies 100% on the EU's refusal to be grown up and compromise.

    The entire "spirit of the Good Friday Agreement" was one of compromise - not getting a leg over others and an unwavering adherence to the rules.

    The UK Government should in response to the violence invoke Article 16 and say the Protocol will not be enforced until a compromise is reached which makes all communities on the island happy. Until then NI should be 100% part of the UK and if the EU wishes to build border posts then that should be on them, but I doubt they will, they were bluffing all along.
    While I sympathy for your position I fear it would be inflammatory
    More inflammatory than what's already happening?
    Yes. Not least because the extremists on both sides would take the message that violence and intimidation works.

    The reality is that the EU needs to grow up. This can be solved but it needs politicians to work together to find a solution. That may be beyond our current generation of leaders (on all sides) sadly.
  • I guess these will be enacted by Boris Johnson soon enough.

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1379872392680464386
  • David Blevins of Sky reporting that it is recreational rioting from young people from deprived areas, having been in lockdown for a year with nothing better to-do

    Now BigG. I have left for the day, and there may be a grain of truth in that assertion, but you also have consider what else has given them the excuse to riot.

    Here in Wales we have been locked down since December, with little sign of improvement. When the disaffected of South Wales marched on the Senedd last week to lynch Drakeford they left beer cans and chip wrappers in their wake, not burned out buses.
    Blevins seemed to be of the opinion it is the young rebelling against one year lockdown and of course it has connections to the troubles but that was not the underlying cause
    Normally you moan non stop about Sky News and their team being rubbish, now you want to accept their word as gospel.
    With respect I am quoting their NI journalist

    I can only repeat what he says, are you saying his reporting is untrue or just having a go at me
    But you persistently criticise Sky News, heck yesterday you were saying they were going to lose so many viewers to GB News.

    So you only like Sky News when they agree with you, noted.
    I listen to most media and will refer to them if it is relevant but it seems to irritate you

    Sky news has moved to the left and reflects that agenda

    And where have I said I agree with Blevins, I have only quoted him and his comments seem to have annoyed you

  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm not sure the message on the bus had much to do with it. There were Brexit options that did not require a sea border. Both the EU and UK politicians who refused to back concessionary position prior to Boris being elected, and of course Boris and his cronies doing the thing they said they would never do.
    Why should the EU do anything - this is an internal issue of a third party country.
    Because one of their members has a land border with said third party country and was determined not to have a hard border with it?
    Were the EU a party who signed the Good Friday Agreement?

    More to the point were they the Government who drove a bus through it without any thought of the consequences?
    The first question is irrelevant to the point I made and Ireland's position. And they were a signatory. The second suggests that the UK was to be trapped in the EU forever to meet an agreement which was based on a set of facts at the time it was entered. You want to score political points but surely you can see how absurd and undemocratic such a conclusion would be.

    May's solution was best on this and we need to try and get back there. Once again the loons on both sides who voted that down should hang their heads in shame.
    International treaties once signed continue in perpetuity - unless and until both sides negotiate and agree changes.

    The Good Friday Agreement is an international agreement that we have decided to ignore and challenge.
    We are not ignoring and challenging the GFA.

    We would be quite happy to continue to have the GFA in force and to have no checks between GB and NI.

    It's the EU that is creating the issue.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,614

    Charles said:

    It’s to do with dynamic change

    What if the EU passes a rule that says “only pigs bred in Denmark or of sufficient quality” and we are forced to adopt that rule

    It isn't an insurmountable barrier. We literally wrote most of the safety standards (whether food or other) for the EU. We are clear that we will be improving standards and increasing safety not the opposite. So a theoretical improvement in standards from the EU at some unspecified point in the future should hold no fear.

    We are playing silly buggers because of the *theoretical* risks in the future that aren't even risks.
    The issue is that the EU's 'improvement' in 'standards' will be nothing of the sort, it will be measures deliberately targeted at the UK for political reasons.

    What's necessary is an agreement on equivalence, which is hopefully, after a lot of huffing and puffing from both sides, where we end up.
  • David Blevins of Sky reporting that it is recreational rioting from young people from deprived areas, having been in lockdown for a year with nothing better to-do

    Now BigG. I have left for the day, and there may be a grain of truth in that assertion, but you also have consider what else has given them the excuse to riot.

    Here in Wales we have been locked down since December, with little sign of improvement. When the disaffected of South Wales marched on the Senedd last week to lynch Drakeford they left beer cans and chip wrappers in their wake, not burned out buses.
    Blevins seemed to be of the opinion it is the young rebelling against one year lockdown and of course it has connections to the troubles but that was not the underlying cause
    Normally you moan non stop about Sky News and their team being rubbish, now you want to accept their word as gospel.
    With respect I am quoting their NI journalist

    I can only repeat what he says, are you saying his reporting is untrue or just having a go at me
    But you persistently criticise Sky News, heck yesterday you were saying they were going to lose so many viewers to GB News.

    So you only like Sky News when they agree with you, noted.
    I listen to most media and will refer to them if it is relevant but it seems to irritate you

    Sky news has moved to the left and reflects that agenda

    And where have I said I agree with Blevins, I have only quoted him and his comments seem to have annoyed you

    I never get annoyed, I'm just amused at your blatant astroturfing.

    But since you like quoting David Blevins, have a watch of this.

    https://twitter.com/JonTonge/status/1380047031947902976
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,341
    The fundamental dilemma, obvious in the Brexit campaign, is that hardish forms of leaving the EU + GFA requires a simultaneous open and closed border.

    This could be fudged by both sides during the campaign. Remain never campaigned on the basis that hard leaving is logically impossible because of Ireland. Leave campaigned on the basis that something will turn up, we don't know the details or that technology will solve whatever.

    The underlying problem of course is the decades of getting ourselves wedged into state like systems and agreements without the people ever being consulted, even as we watched other EU countries holding referendums.

    Suppose that England had been consulted on the GFA on the basis that UK agreement to it meant that leaving the EU unless Ireland did the same would be impossible. Would we have agreed?

    Fudge and failure to ask the people is now coming home to roost after 40 years. A suspect a new all party GFA is required. The courage to take on the matter of Irish reunion should also be on the agenda. The DUP have no solutions, only objections, and this is getting to be quite a striking fact.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm not sure the message on the bus had much to do with it. There were Brexit options that did not require a sea border. Both the EU and UK politicians who refused to back concessionary position prior to Boris being elected, and of course Boris and his cronies doing the thing they said they would never do.
    Doing the thing that he said he would never do, and lying about the consequences of what he intended to do.
  • David Blevins of Sky reporting that it is recreational rioting from young people from deprived areas, having been in lockdown for a year with nothing better to-do

    Now BigG. I have left for the day, and there may be a grain of truth in that assertion, but you also have consider what else has given them the excuse to riot.

    Here in Wales we have been locked down since December, with little sign of improvement. When the disaffected of South Wales marched on the Senedd last week to lynch Drakeford they left beer cans and chip wrappers in their wake, not burned out buses.
    Blevins seemed to be of the opinion it is the young rebelling against one year lockdown and of course it has connections to the troubles but that was not the underlying cause
    Normally you moan non stop about Sky News and their team being rubbish, now you want to accept their word as gospel.
    With respect I am quoting their NI journalist

    I can only repeat what he says, are you saying his reporting is untrue or just having a go at me
    Surely the point is that you rubbish what they say when it disagrees with your worldview and praise what they say when it agrees with your worldview.
    I am not praising them, just quoting their reporter on the ground

    Why is this so difficult to understand and by the way, I have no view on this
  • Sandpit said:

    Charles said:

    It’s to do with dynamic change

    What if the EU passes a rule that says “only pigs bred in Denmark or of sufficient quality” and we are forced to adopt that rule

    It isn't an insurmountable barrier. We literally wrote most of the safety standards (whether food or other) for the EU. We are clear that we will be improving standards and increasing safety not the opposite. So a theoretical improvement in standards from the EU at some unspecified point in the future should hold no fear.

    We are playing silly buggers because of the *theoretical* risks in the future that aren't even risks.
    The issue is that the EU's 'improvement' in 'standards' will be nothing of the sort, it will be measures deliberately targeted at the UK for political reasons.

    What's necessary is an agreement on equivalence, which is hopefully, after a lot of huffing and puffing from both sides, where we end up.
    The level of paranoia is laughable. The EU are going to impose changes to all 27 member states purely for the purposes of sticking it to the UK?

    Please.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 24,583
    Scott_xP said:
    All the lies, chicanery and cavalier ignorance achieved the goal of a Boris Johnson premiership.

    Everything else is just collateral damage.
  • NEW THREAD

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,080

    I guess these will be enacted by Boris Johnson soon enough.

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1379872392680464386

    PR is an interesting one, given that opposition to PR within Labour often came from the left.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    eek said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm not sure the message on the bus had much to do with it. There were Brexit options that did not require a sea border. Both the EU and UK politicians who refused to back concessionary position prior to Boris being elected, and of course Boris and his cronies doing the thing they said they would never do.
    Why should the EU do anything - this is an internal issue of a third party country.
    Because one of their members has a land border with said third party country and was determined not to have a hard border with it?
    Were the EU a party who signed the Good Friday Agreement?

    More to the point were they the Government who drove a bus through it without any thought of the consequences?
    The Good Friday Agreement was an elegant balancing act.

    It was built on certain assumptions.

    When those assumptions are no longer valid isn’t it foolish and counterproductive to try to maintain the GFA unchanged?
    Wouldn't it make more sense to have done some work on resolving potential issues prior to making fundamental changes.

    The last bank I remember trying to do that with a computer system was the TSB - I seem to remember that project not exactly being problem free.
    There have certainly been mistakes along the way. Cameron banning the civil service from doing any preparatory work for example.

    But there was a joint committee of the RoI and the UK looking at technical solutions until Varadkar withdrew from it because he saw a political advantage.

    That is the fundamental issue.

    With compromise and thoughtfulness this problem can be solved. But it needs work and cooperation. So far the EU has placed its principles above peace and human life.
  • Charles said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm not sure the message on the bus had much to do with it. There were Brexit options that did not require a sea border. Both the EU and UK politicians who refused to back concessionary position prior to Boris being elected, and of course Boris and his cronies doing the thing they said they would never do.
    Why should the EU do anything - this is an internal issue of a third party country.
    Because one of their members has a land border with said third party country and was determined not to have a hard border with it?
    Were the EU a party who signed the Good Friday Agreement?

    More to the point were they the Government who drove a bus through it without any thought of the consequences?
    The first question is irrelevant to the point I made and Ireland's position. And they were a signatory. The second suggests that the UK was to be trapped in the EU forever to meet an agreement which was based on a set of facts at the time it was entered. You want to score political points but surely you can see how absurd and undemocratic such a conclusion would be.

    May's solution was best on this and we need to try and get back there. Once again the loons on both sides who voted that down should hang their heads in shame.
    International treaties once signed continue in perpetuity - unless and until both sides negotiate and agree changes.

    The Good Friday Agreement is an international agreement that we have decided to ignore and challenge.
    We are not ignoring and challenging the GFA.

    We would be quite happy to continue to have the GFA in force and to have no checks between GB and NI.

    It's the EU that is creating the issue.
    As a well-educated sensible chap you know fully well that having declared ourselves a 3rd country that the border has to go somewhere. There seems to be this fantasy that we reach no deal of substance with the EU, have no border with them, and don't get in trouble with WTO rules. You know that it is nonsense. So why are you saying it? You aren't a moron like Brexit Hardman Steve Baker.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm not sure the message on the bus had much to do with it. There were Brexit options that did not require a sea border. Both the EU and UK politicians who refused to back concessionary position prior to Boris being elected, and of course Boris and his cronies doing the thing they said they would never do.
    Why should the EU do anything - this is an internal issue of a third party country.
    Because one of their members has a land border with said third party country and was determined not to have a hard border with it?
    Were the EU a party who signed the Good Friday Agreement?

    More to the point were they the Government who drove a bus through it without any thought of the consequences?
    The Good Friday Agreement was an elegant balancing act.

    It was built on certain assumptions.

    When those assumptions are no longer valid isn’t it foolish and counterproductive to try to maintain the GFA unchanged?
    Wouldn't it make more sense to have done some work on resolving potential issues prior to making fundamental changes.

    The last bank I remember trying to do that with a computer system was the TSB - I seem to remember that project not exactly being problem free.
    No.

    One party had no interest in resolving potential issues, so in those circumstances democracy means you need to get on and do the fundamental changes first and then deal with the fallout afterwards.
    Any evidence to back up your statement?

    I really cannot imagine Ireland had zero interest in the issue - which is your sole basis of your argument unless you are confirming the fact Boris couldn't care less..
    This is a nice summary of the problem

    https://policyexchange.org.uk/irish-border-and-brexit/
  • I guess these will be enacted by Boris Johnson soon enough.

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1379872392680464386

    A marvellous platform. Surely it is time for Momentum to float itself as a political party so that such marvellous policies can be put to voters.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 44,052

    Charles said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    DavidL said:

    eek said:

    Scott_xP said:
    I'm not sure the message on the bus had much to do with it. There were Brexit options that did not require a sea border. Both the EU and UK politicians who refused to back concessionary position prior to Boris being elected, and of course Boris and his cronies doing the thing they said they would never do.
    Why should the EU do anything - this is an internal issue of a third party country.
    Because one of their members has a land border with said third party country and was determined not to have a hard border with it?
    Were the EU a party who signed the Good Friday Agreement?

    More to the point were they the Government who drove a bus through it without any thought of the consequences?
    The first question is irrelevant to the point I made and Ireland's position. And they were a signatory. The second suggests that the UK was to be trapped in the EU forever to meet an agreement which was based on a set of facts at the time it was entered. You want to score political points but surely you can see how absurd and undemocratic such a conclusion would be.

    May's solution was best on this and we need to try and get back there. Once again the loons on both sides who voted that down should hang their heads in shame.
    International treaties once signed continue in perpetuity - unless and until both sides negotiate and agree changes.

    The Good Friday Agreement is an international agreement that we have decided to ignore and challenge.
    We are not ignoring and challenging the GFA.

    We would be quite happy to continue to have the GFA in force and to have no checks between GB and NI.

    It's the EU that is creating the issue.
    As a well-educated sensible chap you know fully well that having declared ourselves a 3rd country that the border has to go somewhere. There seems to be this fantasy that we reach no deal of substance with the EU, have no border with them, and don't get in trouble with WTO rules. You know that it is nonsense. So why are you saying it? You aren't a moron like Brexit Hardman Steve Baker.
    The way to have a friction free border is to be in SM and CU. Anything short of that means a border, and Johnson decided to put it in the sea.

    Either the British Government sticks to what it agreed or is exposed as an untrustworthy party. Chickens coming home to roost.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 66,730
    @Charles

    The number who actually leave for reasons other than reaching retirement age is I think usually around 8%, although I don’t have the figures to hand.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    I guess these will be enacted by Boris Johnson soon enough.

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1379872392680464386

    #1 will probably happen under Boris yes, if he's in charge for another decade then that rate should be reached eventually. I remember when unions were campaigning for a £5 minimum wage. Of course when that is reached the left will be demanding a £20 minimum wage or higher.

    #3 and #5 are already government policy. Cop 26 etc

    #2 - Never! Never! Never!

    #4 Ending homelessness is already government policy isn't it? More housing is already policy.

    #6 - #8 is just silly far left gibberish not a policy.
  • Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    ydoethur said:

    @Charles

    The number who actually leave for reasons other than reaching retirement age is I think usually around 8%, although I don’t have the figures to hand.

    Is that people leaving the profession altogether or does it include people who leave a school (but take up the same job at another school)?
  • FloaterFloater Posts: 14,195

    I guess these will be enacted by Boris Johnson soon enough.

    https://twitter.com/PeoplesMomentum/status/1379872392680464386

    A marvellous platform. Surely it is time for Momentum to float itself as a political party so that such marvellous policies can be put to voters.
    They are waiting in the wings to hi-jack a party if given a chance.
  • FenmanFenman Posts: 1,047
    Andy_JS said:

    Talking of fish and chip shops in London, this used to be a famous one. The Sea Shell, Lisson Grove.

    20 mins, 25 secs

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=wI6duYbZzuU

    Toffs in Muswell Hill was better.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,742
    Now I know what the fanbois see when they look at BJ.

    https://twitter.com/thoughtland/status/1380096470947352576?s=21
  • MonkeysMonkeys Posts: 755
    edited April 2021
    deleted - complete incompetence
This discussion has been closed.