What's the rational reason for requiring a vaccine to go into a pub? Once the vulnerable are vaccinated the NHS is no longer in any danger of collapse. At that point refusing a vaccine is just a personal choice, and a personal risk.
1. The vaccines won't give 100% protection, just a mere 90+% [if we're lucky]. If everyone going to the venue is vaccinated, you've got the mathematical product of the protection factor for each chain of potential infection (90% protection one stage, 99% two stages, 99.9% three stages, etc); if lots of them aren't, then you've lost that.
2. The 'non-vulnerable' might still have their lives wrecked by the disease.
No, it's time to end this way of thinking. We need to get back to normal life, with all the risk-taking that entails.
One thing that has been interesting is this does not seem to be a left right divide. I never thought I would be on the same side as kinablu or gallowgate for example
The left-right axis has lost all its potency since COVID 19. I think liberty and safety are more visceral instincts for most people.
The instinct for liberty in general terms has been confined to a small minority, though many have disregarded instructions they find too annoying. The government's strategy to spread fear has worked only too well.
I’m hoping the instinct for liberty is dormant, rather than expired!
What's the rational reason for requiring a vaccine to go into a pub? Once the vulnerable are vaccinated the NHS is no longer in any danger of collapse. At that point refusing a vaccine is just a personal choice, and a personal risk.
1. The vaccines won't give 100% protection, just a mere 90+% [if we're lucky]. If everyone going to the venue is vaccinated, you've got the mathematical product of the protection factor for each chain of potential infection (90% protection one stage, 99% two stages, 99.9% three stages, etc); if lots of them aren't, then you've lost that.
2. The 'non-vulnerable' might still have their lives wrecked by the disease.
No, it's time to end this way of thinking. We need to get back to normal life, with all the risk-taking that entails.
One thing that has been interesting is this does not seem to be a left right divide. I never thought I would be on the same side as kinablu or gallowgate for example
The left-right axis has lost all its potency since COVID 19. I think liberty and safety are more visceral instincts for most people.
The instinct for liberty in general terms has been confined to a small minority, though many have disregarded instructions they find too annoying. The government's strategy to spread fear has worked only too well.
I am very disappointed in attitudes. Much like the curtain twitching, irrational fear of something that science is going to conquer leading to restricting the liberties of others is a terrible consequence of the last year.
What's the rational reason for requiring a vaccine to go into a pub? Once the vulnerable are vaccinated the NHS is no longer in any danger of collapse. At that point refusing a vaccine is just a personal choice, and a personal risk.
1. The vaccines won't give 100% protection, just a mere 90+% [if we're lucky]. If everyone going to the venue is vaccinated, you've got the mathematical product of the protection factor for each chain of potential infection (90% protection one stage, 99% two stages, 99.9% three stages, etc); if lots of them aren't, then you've lost that.
2. The 'non-vulnerable' might still have their lives wrecked by the disease.
No, it's time to end this way of thinking. We need to get back to normal life, with all the risk-taking that entails.
One thing that has been interesting is this does not seem to be a left right divide. I never thought I would be on the same side as kinablu or gallowgate for example
The left-right axis has lost all its potency since COVID 19. I think liberty and safety are more visceral instincts for most people.
The instinct for liberty in general terms has been confined to a small minority, though many have disregarded instructions they find too annoying. The government's strategy to spread fear has worked only too well.
I’m hoping the instinct for liberty is dormant, rather than expired!
Interestingly, had a zoom call today with some fellow shop owners. I think any delay to reopening would likely be ignored by some. The idea that it will be MORE complicated to do ANYTHING after the pandemic has disappeared than DURING it is utterly absurd.
Govt needs to level with people - fear will very soon be entirely unwarranted.
"Coronavirus Division 246: held on Thursday 25 March 2021
Tellers for the Noes
Mr Alistair Carmichael Chris Green
Members voting No
Abbott, rh Ms Diane / Afriyie, Adam / Baker, Mr Steve / Baldwin, Harriett / Begum, Apsana Blackman, Bob / Bone, Mr Peter / Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben / Brady, Sir Graham / Burgon, Richard Butler, Dawn / Campbell, Mr Gregory / Chamberlain, Wendy / Chope, Sir Christopher Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey / Cooper, Daisy / Corbyn, rh Jeremy / Davey, rh Ed Davies, Philip / Davis, rh Mr David / Djanogly, Mr Jonathan / Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M. Drax, Richard / Farron, Tim / Farry, Stephen / Francois, rh Mr Mark Fysh, Mr Marcus / Girvan, Paul / Gwynne, Andrew / Harper, rh Mr Mark Hobhouse, Wera / Hollobone, Mr Philip / Jardine, Christine / Jones, rh Mr David Latham, Mrs Pauline / Lavery, Ian / Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma / Lewis, Clive Lockhart, Carla / Long Bailey, Rebecca / Lord, Mr Jonathan / Loughton, Tim Lucas, Caroline / Mackinlay, Craig / McCartney, Karl / McDonnell, rh John McPartland, Stephen / McVey, rh Esther / Mearns, Ian / Moran, Layla Morris, Anne Marie / Olney, Sarah / Osamor, Kate / Osborne, Kate Paisley, Ian / Redwood, rh John / Ribeiro-Addy, Bell / Robinson, Gavin Rosindell, Andrew / Smith, Henry / Spellar, rh John / Stone, Jamie Stringer, Graham / Sturdy, Julian / Sultana, Zarah / Swayne, rh Sir Desmond Syms, Sir Robert / Tracey, Craig / Trickett, Jon / Twigg, Derek / Walker, Sir Charles Warburton, David / Wilson, Munira / Wilson, rh Sammy / Winter, Beth / Wragg, Mr William"
I’m still unconvinced that any suggestion of vaccine passports for pubs can deal with tourists, given that those enforcing rules will be nightclub bouncers rather than customs or immigration officers who understand the documents they look at.
The whole thing is bollocks, but we all need to tell our MP that we know it’s bollocks.
If you've flown in you'll have something or other on your phone that will be a vax passport. And that will be IATA agreed which is what all the domestic vax passports will likely (perhaps reskinned) follow ?
I’m still unconvinced that any suggestion of vaccine passports for pubs can deal with tourists, given that those enforcing rules will be nightclub bouncers rather than customs or immigration officers who understand the documents they look at.
The whole thing is bollocks, but we all need to tell our MP that we know it’s bollocks.
If you've flown in you'll have something or other on your phone that will be a vax passport. And that will be IATA agreed which is what all the domestic vax passports will likely (perhaps reskinned) follow ?
If the UK gov is smart there'll be a "link" option to the domestic UK passport from an internationally agreed one for tourists Like Garmin and Strava
Just realised the Welsh franchise has been lowered to 16.... how will this affect the voting there? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-56498006 I would imagine a slight rise for the centre-left parties.,,,,,
Just realised the Welsh franchise has been lowered to 16.... how will this affect the voting there? https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-56498006 I would imagine a slight rise for the centre-left parties.,,,,,
That report begins: "For the first time in Wales' history, 70,000 16 and 17-year-olds will help decide who sits in the Welsh Parliament, after the voting age was lowered."
For the first time in Wales' history, and since devolution just two decades back, which is a less portentous way of putting it.
And all we got was this shitty t-shirt hail of smears and abuse.
Highly misleading though. They never had the option of selling it more expensively. Selling it at cost was the price they paid to have a vaccine at all.
Actually totally dishonest. If this is an attempt by AZ to counter all the bad publicity it's going to be counter productive. Better to address the incompetence that has led to one bungle after another.
Or are they saying, if you had allowed us to make more money we wouldn't have made so many screw ups?
This is bullying of the most basic and obvious kind - I hope it leads to tougher action by the West as a result, as bullied only understand one thing:
"China has gone for the people exerting the most pressure on Boris Johnson to be tough on China.
It's gone for the people who say "genocide" has happened in Xinjiang.
The measures are essentially tokenistic - it's unlikely these people or entities did any business with Chinese firms or people anyway.
Targeting Neil O'Brien is personal for the UK prime minister. The MP is in charge of leading policy in Downing Street.
Going after Essex Court Chambers - a firm set up by self-employed barristers - for a legal opinion it reached also shows you how China views an independent judicial system. It doesn't believe in them."
The Liberal Democrats voting against the extension of the Covid Act is very significant - they should be doing much more of that if they want to be more relevant in future: advocating liberalism.
"Coronavirus Division 246: held on Thursday 25 March 2021
Tellers for the Noes
Mr Alistair Carmichael Chris Green
Members voting No
Abbott, rh Ms Diane / Afriyie, Adam / Baker, Mr Steve / Baldwin, Harriett / Begum, Apsana Blackman, Bob / Bone, Mr Peter / Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben / Brady, Sir Graham / Burgon, Richard Butler, Dawn / Campbell, Mr Gregory / Chamberlain, Wendy / Chope, Sir Christopher Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey / Cooper, Daisy / Corbyn, rh Jeremy / Davey, rh Ed Davies, Philip / Davis, rh Mr David / Djanogly, Mr Jonathan / Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M. Drax, Richard / Farron, Tim / Farry, Stephen / Francois, rh Mr Mark Fysh, Mr Marcus / Girvan, Paul / Gwynne, Andrew / Harper, rh Mr Mark Hobhouse, Wera / Hollobone, Mr Philip / Jardine, Christine / Jones, rh Mr David Latham, Mrs Pauline / Lavery, Ian / Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma / Lewis, Clive Lockhart, Carla / Long Bailey, Rebecca / Lord, Mr Jonathan / Loughton, Tim Lucas, Caroline / Mackinlay, Craig / McCartney, Karl / McDonnell, rh John McPartland, Stephen / McVey, rh Esther / Mearns, Ian / Moran, Layla Morris, Anne Marie / Olney, Sarah / Osamor, Kate / Osborne, Kate Paisley, Ian / Redwood, rh John / Ribeiro-Addy, Bell / Robinson, Gavin Rosindell, Andrew / Smith, Henry / Spellar, rh John / Stone, Jamie Stringer, Graham / Sturdy, Julian / Sultana, Zarah / Swayne, rh Sir Desmond Syms, Sir Robert / Tracey, Craig / Trickett, Jon / Twigg, Derek / Walker, Sir Charles Warburton, David / Wilson, Munira / Wilson, rh Sammy / Winter, Beth / Wragg, Mr William"
Why don't we just ramp up the jab programme, get half a million vaccinated every day for the next 65 days, and then everyone will be covered. No need for vaccine passports. End lockdown. Foreign travel might be possible to countries that have been proven not to have any troublesome variants.
This is bullying of the most basic and obvious kind - I hope it leads to tougher action by the West as a result, as bullied only understand one thing:
"China has gone for the people exerting the most pressure on Boris Johnson to be tough on China.
It's gone for the people who say "genocide" has happened in Xinjiang.
The measures are essentially tokenistic - it's unlikely these people or entities did any business with Chinese firms or people anyway.
Targeting Neil O'Brien is personal for the UK prime minister. The MP is in charge of leading policy in Downing Street.
Going after Essex Court Chambers - a firm set up by self-employed barristers - for a legal opinion it reached also shows you how China views an independent judicial system. It doesn't believe in them."
Comments
Govt needs to level with people - fear will very soon be entirely unwarranted.
Division 246: held on Thursday 25 March 2021
Tellers for the Noes
Mr Alistair Carmichael
Chris Green
Members voting No
Abbott, rh Ms Diane / Afriyie, Adam / Baker, Mr Steve / Baldwin, Harriett / Begum, Apsana
Blackman, Bob / Bone, Mr Peter / Bradshaw, rh Mr Ben / Brady, Sir Graham / Burgon, Richard
Butler, Dawn / Campbell, Mr Gregory / Chamberlain, Wendy / Chope, Sir Christopher
Clifton-Brown, Sir Geoffrey / Cooper, Daisy / Corbyn, rh Jeremy / Davey, rh Ed
Davies, Philip / Davis, rh Mr David / Djanogly, Mr Jonathan / Donaldson, rh Sir Jeffrey M.
Drax, Richard / Farron, Tim / Farry, Stephen / Francois, rh Mr Mark
Fysh, Mr Marcus / Girvan, Paul / Gwynne, Andrew / Harper, rh Mr Mark
Hobhouse, Wera / Hollobone, Mr Philip / Jardine, Christine / Jones, rh Mr David
Latham, Mrs Pauline / Lavery, Ian / Lewell-Buck, Mrs Emma / Lewis, Clive
Lockhart, Carla / Long Bailey, Rebecca / Lord, Mr Jonathan / Loughton, Tim
Lucas, Caroline / Mackinlay, Craig / McCartney, Karl / McDonnell, rh John
McPartland, Stephen / McVey, rh Esther / Mearns, Ian / Moran, Layla
Morris, Anne Marie / Olney, Sarah / Osamor, Kate / Osborne, Kate
Paisley, Ian / Redwood, rh John / Ribeiro-Addy, Bell / Robinson, Gavin
Rosindell, Andrew / Smith, Henry / Spellar, rh John / Stone, Jamie
Stringer, Graham / Sturdy, Julian / Sultana, Zarah / Swayne, rh Sir Desmond
Syms, Sir Robert / Tracey, Craig / Trickett, Jon / Twigg, Derek / Walker, Sir Charles
Warburton, David / Wilson, Munira / Wilson, rh Sammy / Winter, Beth / Wragg, Mr William"
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2021-03-25/division/7599821D-1E4C-47CD-A9CC-CB7D40185AFA/Coronavirus?outputType=Names
And that will be IATA agreed which is what all the domestic vax passports will likely (perhaps reskinned) follow ?
Like Garmin and Strava
For the first time in Wales' history, and since devolution just two decades back, which is a less portentous way of putting it.
Or are they saying, if you had allowed us to make more money we wouldn't have made so many screw ups?
"China has gone for the people exerting the most pressure on Boris Johnson to be tough on China.
It's gone for the people who say "genocide" has happened in Xinjiang.
The measures are essentially tokenistic - it's unlikely these people or entities did any business with Chinese firms or people anyway.
Targeting Neil O'Brien is personal for the UK prime minister. The MP is in charge of leading policy in Downing Street.
Going after Essex Court Chambers - a firm set up by self-employed barristers - for a legal opinion it reached also shows you how China views an independent judicial system. It doesn't believe in them."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56532569
Would that make me more likely to vote for them?
Yes.
I think barely 300 Tory MPs voted for it, which isn't a sign of a happy ship.
I wonder if is time to reconsider SEATO. But I think things are going that way anyway.