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With 6 weeks to go till the Scottish election support for independence edges upwards – politicalbett

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  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    Charles said:

    One big - and unresolved - problem for The Firm, is Andrew.

    Whose name was NOT mentioned (I think) in The Interview. BUT his malign stench hangs over this whole sorry business.

    The difference between the Palace's approach to his Foul Lowness is is MARKED contrast, to their treatment of his nephew & niece-in-law.

    For example, WHY is Andrew still HRH? When other royals have been stripped of THEIR titles for far, far less.

    Because he’s been accused but not proven guilty
    Unlike Meghan who is neither but gets your undying hatred, which rather backs up her own claims.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,847
    edited March 2021

    IanB2 said:

    Sandpit said:

    AlistairM said:

    Sandpit said:

    Big ship stuck update: still very stuck.

    Dutch marine salvage team are on the way, but experts reckon it could be at least days if not weeks.

    If you didn’t fill your tank with petrol yesterday, today’s probably a good time to do it.

    https://twitter.com/jsrailton/status/1374942502684405761

    Let's hope they have taken the Scotty approach to engineering timescale estimates so that they can look like miracle workers.
    Let’s hope so. But sadly I doubt it.

    Here’s the issue, and it what you can’t see in photos. The bow and stern sections are both very much beached, at the front there’s 60-70m of bank higher than the 16m draught of the ship.
    https://twitter.com/marcelvandenber/status/1374821546225762308

    They’re going to have to dredge a lot of bank out of the way, lose a lot of weight from the ship and get a lot of tugs to it. They had 7 or 8 tugs on it yesterday, and they didn’t come close to shifting it.

    It’s 400m long and 59m wide, much bigger than most people can conceive - for any journalists reading, thats four Wembley football pitches laid end to end.
    Or, 1/880,000 the size of Wales.
    make a good bet - how many days till traffic restored to normal. I'm thinking 5 days minimum
    Cargo traffic won’t be back to normal for months, even if it only takes a week to move the ship.

    I’m sticking to yesterday’s prediction of 10 days to float her, but if anything that’s probably optimistic. If it were an easy job it would have been done by now, the heavy equipment that appears necessary will take time to get there.

    Once the Suez reopens, there will be hundreds of ships queuing to get through, and hundreds more taking the 10-day detour around Africa risking the Somali pirates. Ships will be out of position for a long time, they usually plan things to the hour for months ahead of time, with little contingency.
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1374844345036201991/photo/1

    I just can't see any pub doing it. What pub that has been closed off and on for nearly a year is going to turn down business, and that's before the issue of trying to tell the public who are gagging to get back down the pub, sorry lad, your names not down your not coming in. There will be riots.
    The only ones I can imagine doing it are small ones with lots of reliable elderly regulars who don't want someone taking the piss and risking their safety. But if that's what the landlord and the regulars want that should be their free choice, the others will choose differently.
    According to thr Guardian, the trade-off Johnson is considering is that pubs that insist will be allowed to waive social distancing, while it would remain legally required in pubs open to all. Would that be acceptable to you, or do you feel that indoor crowding is fine regardless?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/pubs-should-decide-whether-to-demand-vaccine-passports-pm-says

    I can't really see many pubs making social distancing work - round here you could only get about 20 punters in 2 metres apart.
    No, absolutely not.

    If a pub is open it should be open, we're through the other side of this plague now.

    If people are scared and want a vaccinated-only pub and there's a pub landlord in town prepared to open for vaccinated-only then fair enough in my eyes, that's the landlord's choice. But other pubs if they want to be open to all - that's precisely what makes a pub a pub and not a members club.

    The rules on social distancing should be the same for both.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,131
    Meanwhile in Scotland dissent is stifled: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/

    This promises to be a very bad day for Scottish justice.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Pulpstar said:

    Cyclefree said:

    twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1374844345036201991/photo/1

    I just can't see any pub doing it. What pub that has been closed off and on for nearly a year is going to turn down business, and that's before the issue of trying to tell the public who are gagging to get back down the pub, sorry lad, your names not down your not coming in. There will be riots.

    twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1374844345036201991/photo/1

    I just can't see any pub doing it. What pub that has been closed off and on for nearly a year is going to turn down business, and that's before the issue of trying to tell the public who are gagging to get back down the pub, sorry lad, your names not down your not coming in. There will be riots.
    The only ones I can imagine doing it are small ones with lots of reliable elderly regulars who don't want someone taking the piss and risking their safety. But if that's what the landlord and the regulars want that should be their free choice, the others will choose differently.
    According to thr Guardian, the trade-off Johnson is considering is that pubs that insist will be allowed to waive social distancing, while it would remain legally required in pubs open to all. Would that be acceptable to you, or do you feel that indoor crowding is fine regardless?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/pubs-should-decide-whether-to-demand-vaccine-passports-pm-says

    I can't really see many pubs making social distancing work - round here you could only get about 20 punters in 2 metres apart.

    No, absolutely not to this utterly stupid suggestion.

    Daughter completely opposed to this. Neither her nor any of her employees will be vaccinated by then. If you don't need a vaccination to work in a pub you don't need one to drink in it. She cannot afford the staff to go round doing tests, demanding certificates or anything else. And people want to go to pubs to enjoy themselves not be treated as if they're at some out patients clinic.

    Lift the restrictions and allow publicans to run their businesses as they see fit. This endless micro-managing by people who have no understanding of this - or any other - business has got to stop.

    We were told that once deaths and cases were down restrictions would be lifted. They are down and will be even lower by May let alone by the end of June. So enough with the restrictions.

    It feels - and has for some time - felt that somewhere in government they are deliberately targeting pubs so as to make them unviable, regardless of Covid. Look at the nonsense re not allowing them to sell takeaway alcohol, even now, for instance, and the pitiful support given to wet led pubs.

    If this sort of nonsense continues Daughter is simply going to close her business. There is no point continuing if the government makes it impossible for her to trade profitably. It's been in the balance for a while.She's been holding on and on and on. But stuff like this being canvassed - let alone introduced - is just another kick in the teeth.


    For what it's worth, personally think that hospitality workers SHOULD get priority for vaccination.

    Note that in WA State (and no doubt other places) similar priority now for grocery store workers. Who are clearly essentially workers, at least for the 99.46% of us who like to eat semi-regularly.

    Bar & restaurant workers may NOT be as essential (though you & daughter may disagree) but IF bars & etc. are going to open on a significant basis, then staff should be protected the best way possible.

    And that's with a jab or two.
    The USA seems to have tonnes of "priority" groups, and loads of even youngish people I follow on twitter are getting vaxxed there.
    But yet your vaccination rates are behind the UK.
    The collorary is there must be vast swathes of people who aren't bothering in a scale that simply isn't happening in the UK
    That’s what I’ve been told about Utah (which my contact told me is a red thing not a Mormon thing). They have opened up vaccination to anyone who wants from 16 or above because they only have a 30% take up
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Example of two articles to which I referred:

    https://news.sky.com/story/they-have-played-god-with-peoples-lives-the-story-behind-europes-astrazeneca-blame-game-12255905

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/explainers-52380823

    I'm not at the moment a particularly great fan of the EU but there are some good points in those pieces. Mark's hyperbole is not entirely fair or appropriate.

    I also think it's undeniable that the UK could have done its own thing on vaccines whilst still being in the EU. We would have been in a true Win-Win had we done so: inside the EU and thus vetoing any nonsense from von der Leyen, whilst going our own way on procurements. Germany has struck its own deal with Pfizer which is strictly speaking not permitted.

    I don't think we ever quite got it that the best thing to do with the EU instead of railing against it was to be as independent as we liked whilst reaping all the considerable benefits. That's what France and Germany do when it suits them.

    The sky article implies that the CO tracts have equivalent precedence (“both contracts require the company to make best efforts”)

    It’s one side of the story
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cyclefree said:

    twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1374844345036201991/photo/1

    I just can't see any pub doing it. What pub that has been closed off and on for nearly a year is going to turn down business, and that's before the issue of trying to tell the public who are gagging to get back down the pub, sorry lad, your names not down your not coming in. There will be riots.

    twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1374844345036201991/photo/1

    I just can't see any pub doing it. What pub that has been closed off and on for nearly a year is going to turn down business, and that's before the issue of trying to tell the public who are gagging to get back down the pub, sorry lad, your names not down your not coming in. There will be riots.
    The only ones I can imagine doing it are small ones with lots of reliable elderly regulars who don't want someone taking the piss and risking their safety. But if that's what the landlord and the regulars want that should be their free choice, the others will choose differently.
    According to thr Guardian, the trade-off Johnson is considering is that pubs that insist will be allowed to waive social distancing, while it would remain legally required in pubs open to all. Would that be acceptable to you, or do you feel that indoor crowding is fine regardless?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/pubs-should-decide-whether-to-demand-vaccine-passports-pm-says

    I can't really see many pubs making social distancing work - round here you could only get about 20 punters in 2 metres apart.

    No, absolutely not to this utterly stupid suggestion.

    Daughter completely opposed to this. Neither her nor any of her employees will be vaccinated by then. If you don't need a vaccination to work in a pub you don't need one to drink in it. She cannot afford the staff to go round doing tests, demanding certificates or anything else. And people want to go to pubs to enjoy themselves not be treated as if they're at some out patients clinic.

    Lift the restrictions and allow publicans to run their businesses as they see fit. This endless micro-managing by people who have no understanding of this - or any other - business has got to stop.

    We were told that once deaths and cases were down restrictions would be lifted. They are down and will be even lower by May let alone by the end of June. So enough with the restrictions.

    It feels - and has for some time - felt that somewhere in government they are deliberately targeting pubs so as to make them unviable, regardless of Covid. Look at the nonsense re not allowing them to sell takeaway alcohol, even now, for instance, and the pitiful support given to wet led pubs.

    If this sort of nonsense continues Daughter is simply going to close her business. There is no point continuing if the government makes it impossible for her to trade profitably. It's been in the balance for a while.She's been holding on and on and on. But stuff like this being canvassed - let alone introduced - is just another kick in the teeth.


    For what it's worth, personally think that hospitality workers SHOULD get priority for vaccination.

    Note that in WA State (and no doubt other places) similar priority now for grocery store workers. Who are clearly essentially workers, at least for the 99.46% of us who like to eat semi-regularly.

    Bar & restaurant workers may NOT be as essential (though you & daughter may disagree) but IF bars & etc. are going to open on a significant basis, then staff should be protected the best way possible.

    And that's with a jab or two.
    The USA seems to have tonnes of "priority" groups, and loads of even youngish people I follow on twitter are getting vaxxed there.
    But yet your vaccination rates are behind the UK.
    The collorary is there must be vast swathes of people who aren't bothering in a scale that simply isn't happening in the UK
    That’s what I’ve been told about Utah (which my contact told me is a red thing not a Mormon thing). They have opened up vaccination to anyone who wants from 16 or above because they only have a 30% take up
    Weird. I only know of one refusenik; all my friends were excited about being vaccinated.
  • Options
    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cyclefree said:

    twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1374844345036201991/photo/1

    I just can't see any pub doing it. What pub that has been closed off and on for nearly a year is going to turn down business, and that's before the issue of trying to tell the public who are gagging to get back down the pub, sorry lad, your names not down your not coming in. There will be riots.

    twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1374844345036201991/photo/1

    I just can't see any pub doing it. What pub that has been closed off and on for nearly a year is going to turn down business, and that's before the issue of trying to tell the public who are gagging to get back down the pub, sorry lad, your names not down your not coming in. There will be riots.
    The only ones I can imagine doing it are small ones with lots of reliable elderly regulars who don't want someone taking the piss and risking their safety. But if that's what the landlord and the regulars want that should be their free choice, the others will choose differently.
    According to thr Guardian, the trade-off Johnson is considering is that pubs that insist will be allowed to waive social distancing, while it would remain legally required in pubs open to all. Would that be acceptable to you, or do you feel that indoor crowding is fine regardless?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/pubs-should-decide-whether-to-demand-vaccine-passports-pm-says

    I can't really see many pubs making social distancing work - round here you could only get about 20 punters in 2 metres apart.

    No, absolutely not to this utterly stupid suggestion.

    Daughter completely opposed to this. Neither her nor any of her employees will be vaccinated by then. If you don't need a vaccination to work in a pub you don't need one to drink in it. She cannot afford the staff to go round doing tests, demanding certificates or anything else. And people want to go to pubs to enjoy themselves not be treated as if they're at some out patients clinic.

    Lift the restrictions and allow publicans to run their businesses as they see fit. This endless micro-managing by people who have no understanding of this - or any other - business has got to stop.

    We were told that once deaths and cases were down restrictions would be lifted. They are down and will be even lower by May let alone by the end of June. So enough with the restrictions.

    It feels - and has for some time - felt that somewhere in government they are deliberately targeting pubs so as to make them unviable, regardless of Covid. Look at the nonsense re not allowing them to sell takeaway alcohol, even now, for instance, and the pitiful support given to wet led pubs.

    If this sort of nonsense continues Daughter is simply going to close her business. There is no point continuing if the government makes it impossible for her to trade profitably. It's been in the balance for a while.She's been holding on and on and on. But stuff like this being canvassed - let alone introduced - is just another kick in the teeth.


    For what it's worth, personally think that hospitality workers SHOULD get priority for vaccination.

    Note that in WA State (and no doubt other places) similar priority now for grocery store workers. Who are clearly essentially workers, at least for the 99.46% of us who like to eat semi-regularly.

    Bar & restaurant workers may NOT be as essential (though you & daughter may disagree) but IF bars & etc. are going to open on a significant basis, then staff should be protected the best way possible.

    And that's with a jab or two.
    The USA seems to have tonnes of "priority" groups, and loads of even youngish people I follow on twitter are getting vaxxed there.
    But yet your vaccination rates are behind the UK.
    The collorary is there must be vast swathes of people who aren't bothering in a scale that simply isn't happening in the UK
    That’s what I’ve been told about Utah (which my contact told me is a red thing not a Mormon thing). They have opened up vaccination to anyone who wants from 16 or above because they only have a 30% take up
    I am planning a thread header on the different attitudes towards the pandemic and vaccination by Republican and Democratic party supporters. The gap is huge and Utah is strongly Republican
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    I expect the SNP to gain a small majority but not convinced about the mandate for indyref2

    I think it is too close to call

    The fun and games are just getting started.

    What do you think's going to happen if the Welsh polls are anything close to accurate and Plaid ends up controlling the balance of power again - especially now that Labour has started actively promoting pro-independence candidates?

    Yep, we're going to have both the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments demanding votes on secession, loudly and continuously, at the same time. For five interminable years. Joy.
    Wales doesn't want indy, they want attention

    As for Scotland, Canada coped with Quebec, and Canada remains united. Hold your nerve, under fire, Sergeant Rook
    A lot of people probably said the same kind of thing about Scotland two decades ago. Look where they are now.

    The central issue I have with the maintenance of the Union is this: nearly half of Scotland voted to jack it in a few years back, and a substantial fraction of them loathe us. Why are we therefore expected to spend enormous amounts of time and enormous sums of money holding it all together. Why not just let them go?

    I'm by no means certain that Wales will go the same way, but it has to be counted as a decent chance. If Labour doesn't think there's a lot of mileage to be made out of nationalism then why does it select openly pro-independence candidates?

    If the UK disintegrates then we get England back as an irreducible core. We can then have a quiet life. Why shouldn't we?
    deluded thinking yet again, the reason they are clinging on to Scotland is fact they are ,milking us, your deluded hafwittery that England subsidises Scotland says it all, keep the English dumb and happy with lies that they actually finance Scotland. What utter bollox, if you lot are so great why are you crapping it re a referendum.
    We're not. Why do you feel the need to insult the English who are on your side about Scottish independence?
    I was not insulting you, I was pointing out to the idiot who has no clue and seriously imagines he funds Scotland. I appreciate some people know what democracy is and would support people being able to have a vote like normal people do.
  • Options
    theProletheProle Posts: 948
    Sandpit said:

    Interest-free government loans should be made available to help up to a million households buy electric cars over the next two years, the shadow business secretary, Ed Miliband, is to argue.

    Focussing on the wrong thing, as ever.
    If government want to get a million electric cars on the road, what they should be investing in is electric vehicle infrastructure.
    I've been working a bit with a guy whose running an electric Audi as his company car. From what he says, it's currently not a great advert for going electric - the real world range is pretty crippling (sub 200 miles) , and apparently about 50% of fast charge points tend to be broken when you get to them, which makes you have to build masses of contingency into any journey. He's only had in a couple of months, and has already had one episode where three broken chargers in a row meant it almost went completely flat on him.

    Until this is fixed, uptake will remain minimal.
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    ydoethur said:

    Charles said:

    Andy_JS said:
    Seeing as how it appears Queen Elizabeth's top personal governmental priority, has been establishing the monarch as focus and rally-point for the Commonwealth, this survey can NOT be good news for the Palace.

    Methinks the way HM's no-brains twit-trust has mishandled the Meghan situation from the get-go, is seriously undermining the Queen's life work.
    Meghan is a toxic self-interested liar with an agenda and an inflated sense of victimhood

    There’s nothing the Palace could have done
    Do I get the feeling you are not altogether a fan of the Duchess of Sussex?
    My wife disliked her from the beginning - having spent the early part of her career in modelling/acting she knew the type. I was prepared to give her a chance.

    My wife was right.
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
    Morning all.

    Trip to the hospital today to have what is probably a hernia looked at.

    Lucky me! 🍀
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077

    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cyclefree said:

    twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1374844345036201991/photo/1

    I just can't see any pub doing it. What pub that has been closed off and on for nearly a year is going to turn down business, and that's before the issue of trying to tell the public who are gagging to get back down the pub, sorry lad, your names not down your not coming in. There will be riots.

    twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1374844345036201991/photo/1

    I just can't see any pub doing it. What pub that has been closed off and on for nearly a year is going to turn down business, and that's before the issue of trying to tell the public who are gagging to get back down the pub, sorry lad, your names not down your not coming in. There will be riots.
    The only ones I can imagine doing it are small ones with lots of reliable elderly regulars who don't want someone taking the piss and risking their safety. But if that's what the landlord and the regulars want that should be their free choice, the others will choose differently.
    According to thr Guardian, the trade-off Johnson is considering is that pubs that insist will be allowed to waive social distancing, while it would remain legally required in pubs open to all. Would that be acceptable to you, or do you feel that indoor crowding is fine regardless?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/pubs-should-decide-whether-to-demand-vaccine-passports-pm-says

    I can't really see many pubs making social distancing work - round here you could only get about 20 punters in 2 metres apart.

    No, absolutely not to this utterly stupid suggestion.

    Daughter completely opposed to this. Neither her nor any of her employees will be vaccinated by then. If you don't need a vaccination to work in a pub you don't need one to drink in it. She cannot afford the staff to go round doing tests, demanding certificates or anything else. And people want to go to pubs to enjoy themselves not be treated as if they're at some out patients clinic.

    Lift the restrictions and allow publicans to run their businesses as they see fit. This endless micro-managing by people who have no understanding of this - or any other - business has got to stop.

    We were told that once deaths and cases were down restrictions would be lifted. They are down and will be even lower by May let alone by the end of June. So enough with the restrictions.

    It feels - and has for some time - felt that somewhere in government they are deliberately targeting pubs so as to make them unviable, regardless of Covid. Look at the nonsense re not allowing them to sell takeaway alcohol, even now, for instance, and the pitiful support given to wet led pubs.

    If this sort of nonsense continues Daughter is simply going to close her business. There is no point continuing if the government makes it impossible for her to trade profitably. It's been in the balance for a while.She's been holding on and on and on. But stuff like this being canvassed - let alone introduced - is just another kick in the teeth.


    For what it's worth, personally think that hospitality workers SHOULD get priority for vaccination.

    Note that in WA State (and no doubt other places) similar priority now for grocery store workers. Who are clearly essentially workers, at least for the 99.46% of us who like to eat semi-regularly.

    Bar & restaurant workers may NOT be as essential (though you & daughter may disagree) but IF bars & etc. are going to open on a significant basis, then staff should be protected the best way possible.

    And that's with a jab or two.
    The USA seems to have tonnes of "priority" groups, and loads of even youngish people I follow on twitter are getting vaxxed there.
    But yet your vaccination rates are behind the UK.
    The collorary is there must be vast swathes of people who aren't bothering in a scale that simply isn't happening in the UK
    That’s what I’ve been told about Utah (which my contact told me is a red thing not a Mormon thing). They have opened up vaccination to anyone who wants from 16 or above because they only have a 30% take up
    I am planning a thread header on the different attitudes towards the pandemic and vaccination by Republican and Democratic party supporters. The gap is huge and Utah is strongly Republican
    Arent Cali liberal types slowly moving to Utah? More specifically Salt Lake and surrounding? I have no idea of numbers but Instagram seems to be full of them.
  • Options
    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. Gate, hope all goes well.

    An ETA on the EU's decision on whether to exacerbate its reputational damage today?
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    I expect the SNP to gain a small majority but not convinced about the mandate for indyref2

    I think it is too close to call

    The fun and games are just getting started.

    What do you think's going to happen if the Welsh polls are anything close to accurate and Plaid ends up controlling the balance of power again - especially now that Labour has started actively promoting pro-independence candidates?

    Yep, we're going to have both the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments demanding votes on secession, loudly and continuously, at the same time. For five interminable years. Joy.
    Wales doesn't want indy, they want attention

    As for Scotland, Canada coped with Quebec, and Canada remains united. Hold your nerve, under fire, Sergeant Rook
    A lot of people probably said the same kind of thing about Scotland two decades ago. Look where they are now.

    The central issue I have with the maintenance of the Union is this: nearly half of Scotland voted to jack it in a few years back, and a substantial fraction of them loathe us. Why are we therefore expected to spend enormous amounts of time and enormous sums of money holding it all together. Why not just let them go?

    I'm by no means certain that Wales will go the same way, but it has to be counted as a decent chance. If Labour doesn't think there's a lot of mileage to be made out of nationalism then why does it select openly pro-independence candidates?

    If the UK disintegrates then we get England back as an irreducible core. We can then have a quiet life. Why shouldn't we?
    deluded thinking yet again, the reason they are clinging on to Scotland is fact they are ,milking us, your deluded hafwittery that England subsidises Scotland says it all, keep the English dumb and happy with lies that they actually finance Scotland. What utter bollox, if you lot are so great why are you crapping it re a referendum.
    We're not. Why do you feel the need to insult the English who are on your side about Scottish independence?
    I was not insulting you, I was pointing out to the idiot who has no clue and seriously imagines he funds Scotland. I appreciate some people know what democracy is and would support people being able to have a vote like normal people do.
    Indeed but Black Rook was making the same point and said about Scotland "Why not just let them go?"

    I'd think you should be welcoming the English who are happy to let Scotland go, not insulting them.
  • Options
    algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 10,495
    edited March 2021
    With 6 weeks to go till the Scottish election support for independence edges upwards –

    With the greatest respect to Mr Smithson; No it doesn't.
  • Options
    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274

    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cyclefree said:

    twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1374844345036201991/photo/1

    I just can't see any pub doing it. What pub that has been closed off and on for nearly a year is going to turn down business, and that's before the issue of trying to tell the public who are gagging to get back down the pub, sorry lad, your names not down your not coming in. There will be riots.

    twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1374844345036201991/photo/1

    I just can't see any pub doing it. What pub that has been closed off and on for nearly a year is going to turn down business, and that's before the issue of trying to tell the public who are gagging to get back down the pub, sorry lad, your names not down your not coming in. There will be riots.
    The only ones I can imagine doing it are small ones with lots of reliable elderly regulars who don't want someone taking the piss and risking their safety. But if that's what the landlord and the regulars want that should be their free choice, the others will choose differently.
    According to thr Guardian, the trade-off Johnson is considering is that pubs that insist will be allowed to waive social distancing, while it would remain legally required in pubs open to all. Would that be acceptable to you, or do you feel that indoor crowding is fine regardless?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/pubs-should-decide-whether-to-demand-vaccine-passports-pm-says

    I can't really see many pubs making social distancing work - round here you could only get about 20 punters in 2 metres apart.

    No, absolutely not to this utterly stupid suggestion.

    Daughter completely opposed to this. Neither her nor any of her employees will be vaccinated by then. If you don't need a vaccination to work in a pub you don't need one to drink in it. She cannot afford the staff to go round doing tests, demanding certificates or anything else. And people want to go to pubs to enjoy themselves not be treated as if they're at some out patients clinic.

    Lift the restrictions and allow publicans to run their businesses as they see fit. This endless micro-managing by people who have no understanding of this - or any other - business has got to stop.

    We were told that once deaths and cases were down restrictions would be lifted. They are down and will be even lower by May let alone by the end of June. So enough with the restrictions.

    It feels - and has for some time - felt that somewhere in government they are deliberately targeting pubs so as to make them unviable, regardless of Covid. Look at the nonsense re not allowing them to sell takeaway alcohol, even now, for instance, and the pitiful support given to wet led pubs.

    If this sort of nonsense continues Daughter is simply going to close her business. There is no point continuing if the government makes it impossible for her to trade profitably. It's been in the balance for a while.She's been holding on and on and on. But stuff like this being canvassed - let alone introduced - is just another kick in the teeth.


    For what it's worth, personally think that hospitality workers SHOULD get priority for vaccination.

    Note that in WA State (and no doubt other places) similar priority now for grocery store workers. Who are clearly essentially workers, at least for the 99.46% of us who like to eat semi-regularly.

    Bar & restaurant workers may NOT be as essential (though you & daughter may disagree) but IF bars & etc. are going to open on a significant basis, then staff should be protected the best way possible.

    And that's with a jab or two.
    The USA seems to have tonnes of "priority" groups, and loads of even youngish people I follow on twitter are getting vaxxed there.
    But yet your vaccination rates are behind the UK.
    The collorary is there must be vast swathes of people who aren't bothering in a scale that simply isn't happening in the UK
    That’s what I’ve been told about Utah (which my contact told me is a red thing not a Mormon thing). They have opened up vaccination to anyone who wants from 16 or above because they only have a 30% take up
    I am planning a thread header on the different attitudes towards the pandemic and vaccination by Republican and Democratic party supporters. The gap is huge and Utah is strongly Republican
    Arent Cali liberal types slowly moving to Utah? More specifically Salt Lake and surrounding? I have no idea of numbers but Instagram seems to be full of them.
    St George, Utah is so popular with people moving there, they are having to build a massive pipeline to pipe water there.
  • Options
    Foxy said:

    On topic I have a sense, just a sense, that we may have passed peak Boris and trough Nicola.

    Nicola appears to have weathered the storm and, by heck, she's a survivor isn't she? A very very tough politician. Formidable.

    Boris, meanwhile, seems to me to have lost some of his vaccine lustre. Why so? Well, there's no point vaccinating the population only to move the goalposts on easing of restrictions. We were promised a green light back to normality but now, unlike Israel, all we're getting is scaremongering and the early signs (again) of promises to be reneged on. Foreign holidays is one. Vaccine passports to have a pub pint another.

    The row with the EU and vaccine supply drop has also turned ugly. It's all very well crowing about our own stunning success story but this is suddenly looking a little less clever. To be fair to Boris, he has been measured in his dealings with the EU over this. But it's still a mess, with our semi-British AZN project shining a little less brightly. A lot of this is Europe's fault but not all.

    Then there's the NHS pay offer. Whatever the sound reasons, a 1% rise looked and sounded like a kick in the teeth. And, lo and behold, NHS Scotland have just been offered 4%.

    I sense peak Boris has passed. And so has trough Nicola.

    Now is the time to flutter on the SNP ... and independence.

    Peak Boris will be when the benefit of the vaccine programme delivers on the promise of a normal life. When people are back in pubs and restaurants with friends and family - and no worries that we will have to go through a shitty year like 2020-1 again.

    .
    I think that misses my point. Your utopian vision may never happen. That's why I'm suggesting we may have just passed peak Boris.
    I think Johnson will ride the vaccination wave for a good while yet, but I do agree with you about Sturgeon having passed her trough - added to which, the Scottish Tories have badly overplayed their hand.
    Yes, it looks as if Sturgeon is staying, and it's hard to see what more Salmond and his Tory allies can do to damage her. Worth looking again at those odds on an SNP overall majority?
    Sturgeon is staying and the ScotCons have damaged themselves. The leaks from their enquiry - whilst complaining about good governance - look bad. Their report looks out of step following Nippy's all clear from the lawyer. All feels somewhat opportunists, and unless you can take out the target it always backfires.

    Tomorrow I'm taking delivery of my first bags of LibDem leaflets to deliver, so I am not ramping the SNP for personal reasons. But I do think they're heading for a small majority with all that such a result means for the stability of the union.

    Until English Tories accept that their bludgeoning style of government is explicitly doing damage, this won't get any better. The ludicrous faff over flags, culminating in yesterday's command to fly the Union flag on all UK buildings at all times just winds people up.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,399
    theProle said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interest-free government loans should be made available to help up to a million households buy electric cars over the next two years, the shadow business secretary, Ed Miliband, is to argue.

    Focussing on the wrong thing, as ever.
    If government want to get a million electric cars on the road, what they should be investing in is electric vehicle infrastructure.
    I've been working a bit with a guy whose running an electric Audi as his company car. From what he says, it's currently not a great advert for going electric - the real world range is pretty crippling (sub 200 miles) , and apparently about 50% of fast charge points tend to be broken when you get to them, which makes you have to build masses of contingency into any journey. He's only had in a couple of months, and has already had one episode where three broken chargers in a row meant it almost went completely flat on him.

    Until this is fixed, uptake will remain minimal.
    I'd note that we currently have 200k pure electric cars, and the market has gone up from 1% to 6% in just 2 years.

    And that for corporate users providers of charging networks have 130% capital allowances that lasst 2 years, if they cover.

    I see this sorting itself out quickly.

    Ed Milliband on this occasion is howling at a 2015 moon.

    Has the hybrid loophole been closed yet - where corporates get Hybrid cars with the subsidies but never use the electric side?
  • Options

    ydoethur said:

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interest-free government loans should be made available to help up to a million households buy electric cars over the next two years, the shadow business secretary, Ed Miliband, is to argue.

    Focussing on the wrong thing, as ever.
    If government want to get a million electric cars on the road, what they should be investing in is electric vehicle infrastructure.
    Yes, I think battery and car prices will continue to drop. What we need is a system of chargers that are universal, cheap and easy to use in places where houses and flats are. If restricted to houses with driveways, urban residents will find it difficult to adopt.
    Which would be a bit unfortunate given it’s in urban driving that electric vehicles really score over ICE.
    Yes; that's my concern about an electric car. 10 or so months of the year it would be fine; maximum round trip, to eldest son's about 120 miles. However, every so often we go to Preston, or North Wales, and we want to visit the North East again, all of which are 200 miles plus.
    That's in normal times of course!!!!!!
    If I were to spend money on an electric car, would I be better off renting something for those odd journeys or relying on what I gather is an erratically available network of charging points.
    We can already get an interest-free loan here in Scotland! We had a Nissan Leaf between 2014 and 2017 (iffy car, great drivetrain, obsolete battery technology), and a plug-in Outlander 2017 - 2018. I'd love another electric car, there just isn't anything that fits what I want - which is an SUV.

    I'm not going to spend £daft on a Mercedes EQC or Jaguar iPace and frankly neither are big enough for what I am thinking. A used Outlander again as a second car is starting to appeal - bombproof drivetrain, battery pack can be upgraded, absurd amount of space to throw bikes / logs / stuff into, and a commanding driving position for country roads. Give me an all EV equivalent and I'd snatch your hand off.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966
    I see yet again the types predicting that Scots are about to join their English bredren in waging war on the EU are barking up the wrong tree. SNP majority and my Tories booted back to humiliating third forecast are looking good.

    https://twitter.com/davidmacdougall/status/1374876727609065474?s=20
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077

    I see yet again the types predicting that Scots are about to join their English bredren in waging war on the EU are barking up the wrong tree. SNP majority and my Tories booted back to humiliating third forecast are looking good.

    https://twitter.com/davidmacdougall/status/1374876727609065474?s=20
    I can’t wait for @HYUFD to make “the post” again.

    Something something HMG will rightly refuse a legal IndyRef in any case, something something Lord North
  • Options

    I see yet again the types predicting that Scots are about to join their English bredren in waging war on the EU are barking up the wrong tree. SNP majority and my Tories booted back to humiliating third forecast are looking good.

    https://twitter.com/davidmacdougall/status/1374876727609065474?s=20
    Scotland is divided, angry and intolerance abounds, it is not a good look

    The polls are indicating a near 50/50 split and I just do not see this atmosphere calming for years to come

    It just saddens me
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966

    Foxy said:

    On topic I have a sense, just a sense, that we may have passed peak Boris and trough Nicola.

    Nicola appears to have weathered the storm and, by heck, she's a survivor isn't she? A very very tough politician. Formidable.

    Boris, meanwhile, seems to me to have lost some of his vaccine lustre. Why so? Well, there's no point vaccinating the population only to move the goalposts on easing of restrictions. We were promised a green light back to normality but now, unlike Israel, all we're getting is scaremongering and the early signs (again) of promises to be reneged on. Foreign holidays is one. Vaccine passports to have a pub pint another.

    The row with the EU and vaccine supply drop has also turned ugly. It's all very well crowing about our own stunning success story but this is suddenly looking a little less clever. To be fair to Boris, he has been measured in his dealings with the EU over this. But it's still a mess, with our semi-British AZN project shining a little less brightly. A lot of this is Europe's fault but not all.

    Then there's the NHS pay offer. Whatever the sound reasons, a 1% rise looked and sounded like a kick in the teeth. And, lo and behold, NHS Scotland have just been offered 4%.

    I sense peak Boris has passed. And so has trough Nicola.

    Now is the time to flutter on the SNP ... and independence.

    Peak Boris will be when the benefit of the vaccine programme delivers on the promise of a normal life. When people are back in pubs and restaurants with friends and family - and no worries that we will have to go through a shitty year like 2020-1 again.

    .
    I think that misses my point. Your utopian vision may never happen. That's why I'm suggesting we may have just passed peak Boris.
    I think Johnson will ride the vaccination wave for a good while yet, but I do agree with you about Sturgeon having passed her trough - added to which, the Scottish Tories have badly overplayed their hand.
    Yes, it looks as if Sturgeon is staying, and it's hard to see what more Salmond and his Tory allies can do to damage her. Worth looking again at those odds on an SNP overall majority?
    Sturgeon is staying and the ScotCons have damaged themselves. The leaks from their enquiry - whilst complaining about good governance - look bad. Their report looks out of step following Nippy's all clear from the lawyer. All feels somewhat opportunists, and unless you can take out the target it always backfires.

    Tomorrow I'm taking delivery of my first bags of LibDem leaflets to deliver, so I am not ramping the SNP for personal reasons. But I do think they're heading for a small majority with all that such a result means for the stability of the union.

    Until English Tories accept that their bludgeoning style of government is explicitly doing damage, this won't get any better. The ludicrous faff over flags, culminating in yesterday's command to fly the Union flag on all UK buildings at all times just winds people up.
    The requirement that the Union flag when flown alongside eg the Saltire should be in the superior position was the icing on the cake of tone deaf dumbness.
  • Options

    Foxy said:

    On topic I have a sense, just a sense, that we may have passed peak Boris and trough Nicola.

    Nicola appears to have weathered the storm and, by heck, she's a survivor isn't she? A very very tough politician. Formidable.

    Boris, meanwhile, seems to me to have lost some of his vaccine lustre. Why so? Well, there's no point vaccinating the population only to move the goalposts on easing of restrictions. We were promised a green light back to normality but now, unlike Israel, all we're getting is scaremongering and the early signs (again) of promises to be reneged on. Foreign holidays is one. Vaccine passports to have a pub pint another.

    The row with the EU and vaccine supply drop has also turned ugly. It's all very well crowing about our own stunning success story but this is suddenly looking a little less clever. To be fair to Boris, he has been measured in his dealings with the EU over this. But it's still a mess, with our semi-British AZN project shining a little less brightly. A lot of this is Europe's fault but not all.

    Then there's the NHS pay offer. Whatever the sound reasons, a 1% rise looked and sounded like a kick in the teeth. And, lo and behold, NHS Scotland have just been offered 4%.

    I sense peak Boris has passed. And so has trough Nicola.

    Now is the time to flutter on the SNP ... and independence.

    Peak Boris will be when the benefit of the vaccine programme delivers on the promise of a normal life. When people are back in pubs and restaurants with friends and family - and no worries that we will have to go through a shitty year like 2020-1 again.

    .
    I think that misses my point. Your utopian vision may never happen. That's why I'm suggesting we may have just passed peak Boris.
    I think Johnson will ride the vaccination wave for a good while yet, but I do agree with you about Sturgeon having passed her trough - added to which, the Scottish Tories have badly overplayed their hand.
    Yes, it looks as if Sturgeon is staying, and it's hard to see what more Salmond and his Tory allies can do to damage her. Worth looking again at those odds on an SNP overall majority?
    Sturgeon is staying and the ScotCons have damaged themselves. The leaks from their enquiry - whilst complaining about good governance - look bad. Their report looks out of step following Nippy's all clear from the lawyer. All feels somewhat opportunists, and unless you can take out the target it always backfires.

    Tomorrow I'm taking delivery of my first bags of LibDem leaflets to deliver, so I am not ramping the SNP for personal reasons. But I do think they're heading for a small majority with all that such a result means for the stability of the union.

    Until English Tories accept that their bludgeoning style of government is explicitly doing damage, this won't get any better. The ludicrous faff over flags, culminating in yesterday's command to fly the Union flag on all UK buildings at all times just winds people up.
    We do not often agree but I do think you are correct
  • Options
    Philip_ThompsonPhilip_Thompson Posts: 65,826

    Foxy said:

    On topic I have a sense, just a sense, that we may have passed peak Boris and trough Nicola.

    Nicola appears to have weathered the storm and, by heck, she's a survivor isn't she? A very very tough politician. Formidable.

    Boris, meanwhile, seems to me to have lost some of his vaccine lustre. Why so? Well, there's no point vaccinating the population only to move the goalposts on easing of restrictions. We were promised a green light back to normality but now, unlike Israel, all we're getting is scaremongering and the early signs (again) of promises to be reneged on. Foreign holidays is one. Vaccine passports to have a pub pint another.

    The row with the EU and vaccine supply drop has also turned ugly. It's all very well crowing about our own stunning success story but this is suddenly looking a little less clever. To be fair to Boris, he has been measured in his dealings with the EU over this. But it's still a mess, with our semi-British AZN project shining a little less brightly. A lot of this is Europe's fault but not all.

    Then there's the NHS pay offer. Whatever the sound reasons, a 1% rise looked and sounded like a kick in the teeth. And, lo and behold, NHS Scotland have just been offered 4%.

    I sense peak Boris has passed. And so has trough Nicola.

    Now is the time to flutter on the SNP ... and independence.

    Peak Boris will be when the benefit of the vaccine programme delivers on the promise of a normal life. When people are back in pubs and restaurants with friends and family - and no worries that we will have to go through a shitty year like 2020-1 again.

    .
    I think that misses my point. Your utopian vision may never happen. That's why I'm suggesting we may have just passed peak Boris.
    I think Johnson will ride the vaccination wave for a good while yet, but I do agree with you about Sturgeon having passed her trough - added to which, the Scottish Tories have badly overplayed their hand.
    Yes, it looks as if Sturgeon is staying, and it's hard to see what more Salmond and his Tory allies can do to damage her. Worth looking again at those odds on an SNP overall majority?
    Sturgeon is staying and the ScotCons have damaged themselves. The leaks from their enquiry - whilst complaining about good governance - look bad. Their report looks out of step following Nippy's all clear from the lawyer. All feels somewhat opportunists, and unless you can take out the target it always backfires.

    Tomorrow I'm taking delivery of my first bags of LibDem leaflets to deliver, so I am not ramping the SNP for personal reasons. But I do think they're heading for a small majority with all that such a result means for the stability of the union.

    Until English Tories accept that their bludgeoning style of government is explicitly doing damage, this won't get any better. The ludicrous faff over flags, culminating in yesterday's command to fly the Union flag on all UK buildings at all times just winds people up.
    Aren't the Scottish Government commanding the Saltire to fly at all times?

    Why should one be OK but the other just winds people up?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    Which is fine provided everyone has at least been offered the chance of vaccination.

    Do that before everyone in the UK has had a chance and there will be riots*

    * or more likely tutting while pubs ignore the rule as unenforceable.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966

    I see yet again the types predicting that Scots are about to join their English bredren in waging war on the EU are barking up the wrong tree. SNP majority and my Tories booted back to humiliating third forecast are looking good.

    https://twitter.com/davidmacdougall/status/1374876727609065474?s=20
    Scotland is divided, angry and intolerance abounds, it is not a good look

    The polls are indicating a near 50/50 split and I just do not see this atmosphere calming for years to come

    It just saddens me
    Still, we've managed to avoid killing politicians and riots so far (the types who like the Union flag and smashing up municipal furniture aside).
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 18,891
    I imagine the EU would welcome Scotland with open arms. It would be good for both of them so that poll looks pretty good and it shows that Scottish voters are asking the important questions.

    As for the approval ratings in the header Johnson would kill for numbers like that. I don't find them very surprising. She's about the only politician in the UK with universal respect at the moment. Watching her batting away lesser figures reminds me of Merkel in her pomp.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,104

    Foxy said:

    On topic I have a sense, just a sense, that we may have passed peak Boris and trough Nicola.

    Nicola appears to have weathered the storm and, by heck, she's a survivor isn't she? A very very tough politician. Formidable.

    Boris, meanwhile, seems to me to have lost some of his vaccine lustre. Why so? Well, there's no point vaccinating the population only to move the goalposts on easing of restrictions. We were promised a green light back to normality but now, unlike Israel, all we're getting is scaremongering and the early signs (again) of promises to be reneged on. Foreign holidays is one. Vaccine passports to have a pub pint another.

    The row with the EU and vaccine supply drop has also turned ugly. It's all very well crowing about our own stunning success story but this is suddenly looking a little less clever. To be fair to Boris, he has been measured in his dealings with the EU over this. But it's still a mess, with our semi-British AZN project shining a little less brightly. A lot of this is Europe's fault but not all.

    Then there's the NHS pay offer. Whatever the sound reasons, a 1% rise looked and sounded like a kick in the teeth. And, lo and behold, NHS Scotland have just been offered 4%.

    I sense peak Boris has passed. And so has trough Nicola.

    Now is the time to flutter on the SNP ... and independence.

    Peak Boris will be when the benefit of the vaccine programme delivers on the promise of a normal life. When people are back in pubs and restaurants with friends and family - and no worries that we will have to go through a shitty year like 2020-1 again.

    .
    I think that misses my point. Your utopian vision may never happen. That's why I'm suggesting we may have just passed peak Boris.
    I think Johnson will ride the vaccination wave for a good while yet, but I do agree with you about Sturgeon having passed her trough - added to which, the Scottish Tories have badly overplayed their hand.
    Yes, it looks as if Sturgeon is staying, and it's hard to see what more Salmond and his Tory allies can do to damage her. Worth looking again at those odds on an SNP overall majority?
    Sturgeon is staying and the ScotCons have damaged themselves. The leaks from their enquiry - whilst complaining about good governance - look bad. Their report looks out of step following Nippy's all clear from the lawyer. All feels somewhat opportunists, and unless you can take out the target it always backfires.

    Tomorrow I'm taking delivery of my first bags of LibDem leaflets to deliver, so I am not ramping the SNP for personal reasons. But I do think they're heading for a small majority with all that such a result means for the stability of the union.

    Until English Tories accept that their bludgeoning style of government is explicitly doing damage, this won't get any better. The ludicrous faff over flags, culminating in yesterday's command to fly the Union flag on all UK buildings at all times just winds people up.
    Aren't the Scottish Government commanding the Saltire to fly at all times?

    Why should one be OK but the other just winds people up?
    Both just wind people up. Which is the intention. Which is why it's a dick move in both cases.
  • Options
    Roger said:

    I imagine the EU would welcome Scotland with open arms. It would be good for both of them so that poll looks pretty good and it shows that Scottish voters are asking the important questions.

    As for the approval ratings in the header Johnson would kill for numbers like that. I don't find them very surprising. She's about the only politician in the UK with universal respect at the moment. Watching her batting away lesser figures reminds me of Merkel in her pomp.
    Universal respect- really
  • Options
    GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,077
    I got a Labour leaflet through the door yesterday and it was full of public sector this, public sector that. To be honest it was really off-putting. I have no idea who I’m going to vote for for Newcastle City Council.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,059
    HYUFD said:

    I expect the SNP to gain a small majority but not convinced about the mandate for indyref2

    I think it is too close to call

    The fun and games are just getting started.

    What do you think's going to happen if the Welsh polls are anything close to accurate and Plaid ends up controlling the balance of power again - especially now that Labour has started actively promoting pro-independence candidates?

    Yep, we're going to have both the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments demanding votes on secession, loudly and continuously, at the same time. For five interminable years. Joy.
    You have a strange idea Wales has the same direction as Scotland

    Please take it from me Welsh Independence is not on the agenda anytime soon and not with the help of labour either
    Do you think that Welsh independence would get a boost IF Scotland left the Union?
    Yes, big time.
    Depends - it would be a bumpy ole ride. Wales may look on and think “nah”
    If you are suggesting Wales is an economic desert you would be right.

    However sometimes the heart rules the head, and if Scotland jumps ship, don't be surprised that Wales MIGHT follow.
    I’d like to think folk would put a bit of thought into why their country was an economic desert..
    Current thinking is Labour and the EU, but Scottish Independence would focus Welsh minds (like in Scotland} on their serfdom, and a break from their English feudal landlords is thus almost inevitable.
    Scotland at least can leave the UK for the EU which it voted to remain in, Wales voted Leave so if it left the UK too it would be completely alone
    There is nothing to stop minds being changed.
  • Options

    I got a Labour leaflet through the door yesterday and it was full of public sector this, public sector that. To be honest it was really off-putting. I have no idea who I’m going to vote for for Newcastle City Council.

    This is labour's problem
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,104

    I see yet again the types predicting that Scots are about to join their English bredren in waging war on the EU are barking up the wrong tree. SNP majority and my Tories booted back to humiliating third forecast are looking good.

    https://twitter.com/davidmacdougall/status/1374876727609065474?s=20
    Scotland is divided, angry and intolerance abounds, it is not a good look

    The polls are indicating a near 50/50 split and I just do not see this atmosphere calming for years to come

    It just saddens me
    Still, we've managed to avoid killing politicians and riots so far (the types who like the Union flag and smashing up municipal furniture aside).
    Supposing you win a second Independence referendum, what do you think should be done to reassure unionists that they still have a future in an independent Scotland?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,095
    malcolmg said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic I have a sense, just a sense, that we may have passed peak Boris and trough Nicola.

    Nicola appears to have weathered the storm and, by heck, she's a survivor isn't she? A very very tough politician. Formidable.

    Boris, meanwhile, seems to me to have lost some of his vaccine lustre. Why so? Well, there's no point vaccinating the population only to move the goalposts on easing of restrictions. We were promised a green light back to normality but now, unlike Israel, all we're getting is scaremongering and the early signs (again) of promises to be reneged on. Foreign holidays is one. Vaccine passports to have a pub pint another.

    The row with the EU and vaccine supply drop has also turned ugly. It's all very well crowing about our own stunning success story but this is suddenly looking a little less clever. To be fair to Boris, he has been measured in his dealings with the EU over this. But it's still a mess, with our semi-British AZN project shining a little less brightly. A lot of this is Europe's fault but not all.

    Then there's the NHS pay offer. Whatever the sound reasons, a 1% rise looked and sounded like a kick in the teeth. And, lo and behold, NHS Scotland have just been offered 4%.

    I sense peak Boris has passed. And so has trough Nicola.

    Now is the time to flutter on the SNP ... and independence.

    Peak Boris will be when the benefit of the vaccine programme delivers on the promise of a normal life. When people are back in pubs and restaurants with friends and family - and no worries that we will have to go through a shitty year like 2020-1 again.

    .
    I think that misses my point. Your utopian vision may never happen. That's why I'm suggesting we may have just passed peak Boris.
    I think Johnson will ride the vaccination wave for a good while yet, but I do agree with you about Sturgeon having passed her trough - added to which, the Scottish Tories have badly overplayed their hand.
    Yes, it looks as if Sturgeon is staying, and it's hard to see what more Salmond and his Tory allies can do to damage her. Worth looking again at those odds on an SNP overall majority?
    Be interesting to see if Evans goes tamely or makes Sturgeon pay for her to be dragged through the courts. Also if the leaker is nabbed by police it will not be good for Sturgeon given who it is.
    Still a slow-burning fuse eh, malcy - despite the entire Scottish establishment trying to stop it reaching its inevitable target....
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    On topic

    It doesn't matter if the SNP get a majority or not - for a referendum what matters is if the pro-independence parties get a majority and with the Scottish Greens they will.
  • Options

    HYUFD said:

    I expect the SNP to gain a small majority but not convinced about the mandate for indyref2

    I think it is too close to call

    The fun and games are just getting started.

    What do you think's going to happen if the Welsh polls are anything close to accurate and Plaid ends up controlling the balance of power again - especially now that Labour has started actively promoting pro-independence candidates?

    Yep, we're going to have both the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments demanding votes on secession, loudly and continuously, at the same time. For five interminable years. Joy.
    You have a strange idea Wales has the same direction as Scotland

    Please take it from me Welsh Independence is not on the agenda anytime soon and not with the help of labour either
    Do you think that Welsh independence would get a boost IF Scotland left the Union?
    Yes, big time.
    Depends - it would be a bumpy ole ride. Wales may look on and think “nah”
    If you are suggesting Wales is an economic desert you would be right.

    However sometimes the heart rules the head, and if Scotland jumps ship, don't be surprised that Wales MIGHT follow.
    I’d like to think folk would put a bit of thought into why their country was an economic desert..
    Current thinking is Labour and the EU, but Scottish Independence would focus Welsh minds (like in Scotland} on their serfdom, and a break from their English feudal landlords is thus almost inevitable.
    Scotland at least can leave the UK for the EU which it voted to remain in, Wales voted Leave so if it left the UK too it would be completely alone
    There is nothing to stop minds being changed.
    That never occurs to HYUFD
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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,976

    I see yet again the types predicting that Scots are about to join their English bredren in waging war on the EU are barking up the wrong tree. SNP majority and my Tories booted back to humiliating third forecast are looking good.

    https://twitter.com/davidmacdougall/status/1374876727609065474?s=20
    Scotland is divided, angry and intolerance abounds, it is not a good look

    The polls are indicating a near 50/50 split and I just do not see this atmosphere calming for years to come

    It just saddens me
    The 4 years of turmoil post brexit vote would look comparatively simple.

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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,059



    If you are suggesting Wales is an economic desert you would be right.

    However sometimes the heart rules the head, and if Scotland jumps ship, don't be surprised that Wales MIGHT follow.

    I’d like to think folk would put a bit of thought into why their country was an economic desert..
    It is a good question. It certainly is one that hasn't troubled any Welsh politician for a very long time.

    Wales suffers from systemic problems in public services, rampant corruption & cronyism, poor education & health services and a fragile, unstable economy.

    But, worst of all — and so unlike Scotland — there is no sign of competent, inspiring political leadership plotting a way forward for the country out of the morass.

    Wales seemingly cannot change its current trajectory. Any better option for Wales requires much better leadership, which is not available in any of the major parties.

    It is hard to be positive for Wales.

    In the short term, the removal of the Labour Party (who have governed Wales forever and done so very little) would be a start, but it is idle to pretend there is a much better option waiting in the wings.
    RT?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Abode, aye. It'd be bitter, and very sad.
  • Options

    I see yet again the types predicting that Scots are about to join their English bredren in waging war on the EU are barking up the wrong tree. SNP majority and my Tories booted back to humiliating third forecast are looking good.

    https://twitter.com/davidmacdougall/status/1374876727609065474?s=20
    Scotland is divided, angry and intolerance abounds, it is not a good look

    The polls are indicating a near 50/50 split and I just do not see this atmosphere calming for years to come

    It just saddens me
    The 4 years of turmoil post brexit vote would look comparatively simple.

    As someone who loves Scotland and its people, the prospect of years of angry constitutional conflicts saddens me
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,241
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interest-free government loans should be made available to help up to a million households buy electric cars over the next two years, the shadow business secretary, Ed Miliband, is to argue.

    Focussing on the wrong thing, as ever.
    If government want to get a million electric cars on the road, what they should be investing in is electric vehicle infrastructure.
    Yes, I think battery and car prices will continue to drop. What we need is a system of chargers that are universal, cheap and easy to use in places where houses and flats are. If restricted to houses with driveways, urban residents will find it difficult to adopt.
    Round where I live, the lamp posts are being replaced at a steady pace, with ones with chargers built in. Switching over to LED lights at the same time....

    Those are fine for trickle charging overnight.

    To "fill" a high end EV battery quickly requires a power infrastructure that you can't install in the home. Hence fast charging at motorway services and similar is where things are heading.

    There are several people locally who live in flats without parking* and have Teslas. Spoke to one of them, and the charging network is definitely the deciding factor on making it possible.

    *Edwardian mansion blocks with no parking are common in the area.
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924

    Morning all.

    Trip to the hospital today to have what is probably a hernia looked at.

    Lucky me! 🍀

    Back in the day reducing hernias and fitting trusses was part of pharmacists NHS contractual duties.

    Could be quite unpleasant. I still recall the patient who stank like an unwashed badger.
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    AlistairMAlistairM Posts: 2,004
    eek said:

    Which is fine provided everyone has at least been offered the chance of vaccination.

    Do that before everyone in the UK has had a chance and there will be riots*

    * or more likely tutting while pubs ignore the rule as unenforceable.
    Younger people have been hit the hardest in terms of incomes and quality of life in this pandemic. They have given up the most and for a disease which is incredibly unlikely to cause them any harm.

    Now they might be told that having gone through all of this they have to sit and watch whilst all the vaccinated oldies go to the pub and socialise again whilst they have to wait. If I were still a young persion I would be furious.

    At 43 years old I am in the middle. I haven't been vaccinated yet but hopefully will be in the next couple of months. If I were told that all those lucky people who have vaccinated can go to the pub but I can't after having waited so long then I am not going to be happy.

    Perhaps there is some middle-path? Evenings are getting lighter, days are getting warmer. Maybe those vaccinated can go inside pubs but those not are restricted to beer gardens? I'd be happy with that as a reasonable compromise.
    It would have to work on honesty though, I don't see how it could be enforced!
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966
    edited March 2021

    I see yet again the types predicting that Scots are about to join their English bredren in waging war on the EU are barking up the wrong tree. SNP majority and my Tories booted back to humiliating third forecast are looking good.

    https://twitter.com/davidmacdougall/status/1374876727609065474?s=20
    Scotland is divided, angry and intolerance abounds, it is not a good look

    The polls are indicating a near 50/50 split and I just do not see this atmosphere calming for years to come

    It just saddens me
    Still, we've managed to avoid killing politicians and riots so far (the types who like the Union flag and smashing up municipal furniture aside).
    Supposing you win a second Independence referendum, what do you think should be done to reassure unionists that they still have a future in an independent Scotland?
    There are different types of Unionism and there's a hard core that will never be reassured or have their permarage defused. I don't know what to do about them, and that's a problem because violence and disruption are most likely to come from that end of the scale.

    For the rest I can only say travel hopefully. After independence the SNP will disintegrate and the realignments are likely to include lots of ex Unionists and the resurgence of currently Unionist parties. That's probably as good a vouchsafe of a future for Unionists in Scotland as there could be.
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    Foxy said:

    On topic I have a sense, just a sense, that we may have passed peak Boris and trough Nicola.

    Nicola appears to have weathered the storm and, by heck, she's a survivor isn't she? A very very tough politician. Formidable.

    Boris, meanwhile, seems to me to have lost some of his vaccine lustre. Why so? Well, there's no point vaccinating the population only to move the goalposts on easing of restrictions. We were promised a green light back to normality but now, unlike Israel, all we're getting is scaremongering and the early signs (again) of promises to be reneged on. Foreign holidays is one. Vaccine passports to have a pub pint another.

    The row with the EU and vaccine supply drop has also turned ugly. It's all very well crowing about our own stunning success story but this is suddenly looking a little less clever. To be fair to Boris, he has been measured in his dealings with the EU over this. But it's still a mess, with our semi-British AZN project shining a little less brightly. A lot of this is Europe's fault but not all.

    Then there's the NHS pay offer. Whatever the sound reasons, a 1% rise looked and sounded like a kick in the teeth. And, lo and behold, NHS Scotland have just been offered 4%.

    I sense peak Boris has passed. And so has trough Nicola.

    Now is the time to flutter on the SNP ... and independence.

    Peak Boris will be when the benefit of the vaccine programme delivers on the promise of a normal life. When people are back in pubs and restaurants with friends and family - and no worries that we will have to go through a shitty year like 2020-1 again.

    .
    I think that misses my point. Your utopian vision may never happen. That's why I'm suggesting we may have just passed peak Boris.
    I think Johnson will ride the vaccination wave for a good while yet, but I do agree with you about Sturgeon having passed her trough - added to which, the Scottish Tories have badly overplayed their hand.
    Yes, it looks as if Sturgeon is staying, and it's hard to see what more Salmond and his Tory allies can do to damage her. Worth looking again at those odds on an SNP overall majority?
    Sturgeon is staying and the ScotCons have damaged themselves. The leaks from their enquiry - whilst complaining about good governance - look bad. Their report looks out of step following Nippy's all clear from the lawyer. All feels somewhat opportunists, and unless you can take out the target it always backfires.

    Tomorrow I'm taking delivery of my first bags of LibDem leaflets to deliver, so I am not ramping the SNP for personal reasons. But I do think they're heading for a small majority with all that such a result means for the stability of the union.

    Until English Tories accept that their bludgeoning style of government is explicitly doing damage, this won't get any better. The ludicrous faff over flags, culminating in yesterday's command to fly the Union flag on all UK buildings at all times just winds people up.
    Aren't the Scottish Government commanding the Saltire to fly at all times?

    Why should one be OK but the other just winds people up?
    You have a nation that is at best 50/50 split on its views towards the Union. An a government which isn't well liked up here ramming its flag up people's poles.

    Do you really have to ask?
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    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    I expect the SNP to gain a small majority but not convinced about the mandate for indyref2

    I think it is too close to call

    The fun and games are just getting started.

    What do you think's going to happen if the Welsh polls are anything close to accurate and Plaid ends up controlling the balance of power again - especially now that Labour has started actively promoting pro-independence candidates?

    Yep, we're going to have both the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments demanding votes on secession, loudly and continuously, at the same time. For five interminable years. Joy.
    Wales doesn't want indy, they want attention

    As for Scotland, Canada coped with Quebec, and Canada remains united. Hold your nerve, under fire, Sergeant Rook
    A lot of people probably said the same kind of thing about Scotland two decades ago. Look where they are now.

    The central issue I have with the maintenance of the Union is this: nearly half of Scotland voted to jack it in a few years back, and a substantial fraction of them loathe us. Why are we therefore expected to spend enormous amounts of time and enormous sums of money holding it all together. Why not just let them go?

    I'm by no means certain that Wales will go the same way, but it has to be counted as a decent chance. If Labour doesn't think there's a lot of mileage to be made out of nationalism then why does it select openly pro-independence candidates?

    If the UK disintegrates then we get England back as an irreducible core. We can then have a quiet life. Why shouldn't we?
    deluded thinking yet again, the reason they are clinging on to Scotland is fact they are ,milking us, your deluded hafwittery that England subsidises Scotland says it all, keep the English dumb and happy with lies that they actually finance Scotland. What utter bollox, if you lot are so great why are you crapping it re a referendum.
    We're not. Why do you feel the need to insult the English who are on your side about Scottish independence?
    I was not insulting you, I was pointing out to the idiot who has no clue and seriously imagines he funds Scotland. I appreciate some people know what democracy is and would support people being able to have a vote like normal people do.
    Indeed but Black Rook was making the same point and said about Scotland "Why not just let them go?"

    I'd think you should be welcoming the English who are happy to let Scotland go, not insulting them.
    Well anyone trying to pretend that England finances Scotland needs insulting. We have been milked for years and in last few years lots of money has been borrowed and "supposedly" spent on Scotland, England does not and never has financed Scotland. I have no time for idiots who think they are paying for us as if they are kind hearted benefactors rather than dumb idiots.
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    Andy_CookeAndy_Cooke Posts: 4,814

    Floater said:

    I am wonder how we got from the military police kicking the doors down of a vaccine factory in the morning, the afternoon the EC agreeing new rules that basically singled out the UK for blocking vaccine exports, to this evening "peace deal"....

    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1374855858862047247?s=19

    Because it was never going to happen, complete theatre and sabre rattling as you would have known if you’d listened to me all week!
    You my well be right - but yet again huge reputational hit taken by the EU... for what exactly?
    Oh for nothing, or very little. I have said twice today that their behaviour has been exponentially bonkers all winter (okay it’s spring now, but only just). It is really quite bizarre - VdL is completely incompetent, and that’s the best you can say about her.
    Conquest's Third Law applies, doesn't it?
    "The behavior of any bureaucratic organization can best be understood by assuming that it is controlled by a secret cabal of its enemies."

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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    edited March 2021

    I got a Labour leaflet through the door yesterday and it was full of public sector this, public sector that. To be honest it was really off-putting. I have no idea who I’m going to vote for for Newcastle City Council.


    Greens have started round here. TBH I think they've got a good chance in a Tory seat. Labour's bolt is shot, in what was, when we moved here, a Labour seat.
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    I got a Labour leaflet through the door yesterday and it was full of public sector this, public sector that. To be honest it was really off-putting. I have no idea who I’m going to vote for for Newcastle City Council.

    They really are lost in the woods. Most people are not public sector. Most people are not on Zero Hours contracts. Most people are not eeking out an existence on social security. yet that seems to be all Labour talk about.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Charles said:

    One big - and unresolved - problem for The Firm, is Andrew.

    Whose name was NOT mentioned (I think) in The Interview. BUT his malign stench hangs over this whole sorry business.

    The difference between the Palace's approach to his Foul Lowness is is MARKED contrast, to their treatment of his nephew & niece-in-law.

    For example, WHY is Andrew still HRH? When other royals have been stripped of THEIR titles for far, far less.

    Because he’s been accused but not proven guilty
    Unlike Meghan who is neither but gets your undying hatred, which rather backs up her own claims.
    I resent the implied allegation that you are making.

    Please withdraw and apologise, or I shall think the less of you.

    Meghan is a third tier actress who saw an opportunity to make the next step in her career. She has manipulated her husband, feeding his genuine issues and offering a false way out. She has succeeded in her personal objectives heedless of the cost to others.
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,241
    In other news

    https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/03/arianespace-starsem-oneweb-fifth/

    Looks like OneWeb is heading into initial operations in 2021.

    The other interesting bit, is that by saving OneWeb the British government has helped ESA out enormously. They were really, really desperate when OneWeb looked like collapsing.

    The reason for this is that the ESA plan is to transition the EU/Russian cheap launches to a home EU cheap launch capability. The idea is that the politicians in Europe can have the main Ariane program as their jobs program - high cost etc. Meanwhile they can develop cheaper launch to oneside, as it were.
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    RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 2,976

    I see yet again the types predicting that Scots are about to join their English bredren in waging war on the EU are barking up the wrong tree. SNP majority and my Tories booted back to humiliating third forecast are looking good.

    https://twitter.com/davidmacdougall/status/1374876727609065474?s=20
    Scotland is divided, angry and intolerance abounds, it is not a good look

    The polls are indicating a near 50/50 split and I just do not see this atmosphere calming for years to come

    It just saddens me
    The 4 years of turmoil post brexit vote would look comparatively simple.

    As someone who loves Scotland and its people, the prospect of years of angry constitutional conflicts saddens me
    Absolutely.

    That’s why an argument of “it’ll all be fine and people will re-align and accept the result” just isn’t going to happen.

    Particularly when some of the harder consequences become clear - I.e raising /adjusting spending to cover any deficit that arises.

    Obviously the UK would have to do a lot in terms of moving assets like trident. But supposed we moved it to Cumbria - like Barrow in Furness. Surely the issue of having nuclear weapons literally next to Scotland still remains an issue
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378
    I don't know just how good this is, but it definitely beats Woody Harrelson's effort.
    https://twitter.com/robdelaney/status/1374788609983795204
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,399
    edited March 2021

    In other news

    https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/03/arianespace-starsem-oneweb-fifth/

    Looks like OneWeb is heading into initial operations in 2021.

    The other interesting bit, is that by saving OneWeb the British government has helped ESA out enormously. They were really, really desperate when OneWeb looked like collapsing.

    The reason for this is that the ESA plan is to transition the EU/Russian cheap launches to a home EU cheap launch capability. The idea is that the politicians in Europe can have the main Ariane program as their jobs program - high cost etc. Meanwhile they can develop cheaper launch to oneside, as it were.

    Can we insist that ESA is based in UK :smile:

    They could sub-rent the old EMA building.

    Or move to the NSC in Leicester. Bit southern for me, but it qualifies as "flat Midlands".
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    I got a Labour leaflet through the door yesterday and it was full of public sector this, public sector that. To be honest it was really off-putting. I have no idea who I’m going to vote for for Newcastle City Council.

    They really are lost in the woods. Most people are not public sector. Most people are not on Zero Hours contracts. Most people are not eeking out an existence on social security. yet that seems to be all Labour talk about.
    Its a safety zone. It fits the mindset of the world divided into oppressors and the oppressed, with public sector employees being honorary oppressed.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,321



    Loosen up as the dark evenings approach? Stuff that.

    The idea indoor crowds are not needed in the summer is madness. Yes it can be nice to drink outside in a summer's afternoon, but what happens when it starts raining? Or as it becomes night-time? People still want the option of going indoors, then going back outside when the weather allows.

    Personal choice and freedom to decide.

    A public health emergency may override the freedom to make damaging personal decisions. We've been here before last Christmas when it had much more force - "Families want to be together - we can't stop grandparents from seeing their families". Johnson encouraged that until it was clear that it would spark a resurgence of the pandemic, when he (rightly) performed a screeching U-turn. You're seriously saying that a major public health emergency that we've all been battling for a year should be compromised because it's nice to be able to crowd indoors even in the summer - after all, it might rain?

    To some extent, the issue has been compounded by the focus on hospitalisation and death, to the point that it's assumed that if you don't die then the disease is no big deal - "like flu", as Donald Trump used to say. That's far from the case for many (young) people. The problem is not with the vaccinated elderly. It's with younger people who have not yet been vaccinated and are still exposed.

    To be fair to the Government and society generally, we've collectively come a long way in reducing the scale of the pandemic. We really do not want to go back to major crisis and lockdown in the autumn, just because you might like to have a drink in a crowd on a rainy evening in June. B
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,241
    MattW said:

    In other news

    https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2021/03/arianespace-starsem-oneweb-fifth/

    Looks like OneWeb is heading into initial operations in 2021.

    The other interesting bit, is that by saving OneWeb the British government has helped ESA out enormously. They were really, really desperate when OneWeb looked like collapsing.

    The reason for this is that the ESA plan is to transition the EU/Russian cheap launches to a home EU cheap launch capability. The idea is that the politicians in Europe can have the main Ariane program as their jobs program - high cost etc. Meanwhile they can develop cheaper launch to oneside, as it were.

    Can we insist that ESA is based in UK :smile:

    They could sub-rent the old EMA building.

    Or move to the NSC in Leicester. Bit southern for me, but it qualifies as "flat Midlands".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Centre_for_Space_Applications_and_Telecommunications
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    MattWMattW Posts: 18,399
    edited March 2021

    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Interest-free government loans should be made available to help up to a million households buy electric cars over the next two years, the shadow business secretary, Ed Miliband, is to argue.

    Focussing on the wrong thing, as ever.
    If government want to get a million electric cars on the road, what they should be investing in is electric vehicle infrastructure.
    Yes, I think battery and car prices will continue to drop. What we need is a system of chargers that are universal, cheap and easy to use in places where houses and flats are. If restricted to houses with driveways, urban residents will find it difficult to adopt.
    Round where I live, the lamp posts are being replaced at a steady pace, with ones with chargers built in. Switching over to LED lights at the same time....

    Those are fine for trickle charging overnight.

    To "fill" a high end EV battery quickly requires a power infrastructure that you can't install in the home. Hence fast charging at motorway services and similar is where things are heading.

    There are several people locally who live in flats without parking* and have Teslas. Spoke to one of them, and the charging network is definitely the deciding factor on making it possible.

    *Edwardian mansion blocks with no parking are common in the area.
    Quite significant numbers of self-builders are now installing domestic 3-phase, often simply as future-proofing, to give them high fast charger / low end rapid charger level, but not supercharger.

    I don't have that and my charger is only 7 kW, which is (counts on fingers) a little under 30A.
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    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    I expect the SNP to gain a small majority but not convinced about the mandate for indyref2

    I think it is too close to call

    The fun and games are just getting started.

    What do you think's going to happen if the Welsh polls are anything close to accurate and Plaid ends up controlling the balance of power again - especially now that Labour has started actively promoting pro-independence candidates?

    Yep, we're going to have both the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments demanding votes on secession, loudly and continuously, at the same time. For five interminable years. Joy.
    Wales doesn't want indy, they want attention

    As for Scotland, Canada coped with Quebec, and Canada remains united. Hold your nerve, under fire, Sergeant Rook
    A lot of people probably said the same kind of thing about Scotland two decades ago. Look where they are now.

    The central issue I have with the maintenance of the Union is this: nearly half of Scotland voted to jack it in a few years back, and a substantial fraction of them loathe us. Why are we therefore expected to spend enormous amounts of time and enormous sums of money holding it all together. Why not just let them go?

    I'm by no means certain that Wales will go the same way, but it has to be counted as a decent chance. If Labour doesn't think there's a lot of mileage to be made out of nationalism then why does it select openly pro-independence candidates?

    If the UK disintegrates then we get England back as an irreducible core. We can then have a quiet life. Why shouldn't we?
    deluded thinking yet again, the reason they are clinging on to Scotland is fact they are ,milking us, your deluded hafwittery that England subsidises Scotland says it all, keep the English dumb and happy with lies that they actually finance Scotland. What utter bollox, if you lot are so great why are you crapping it re a referendum.
    We're not. Why do you feel the need to insult the English who are on your side about Scottish independence?
    I was not insulting you, I was pointing out to the idiot who has no clue and seriously imagines he funds Scotland. I appreciate some people know what democracy is and would support people being able to have a vote like normal people do.
    Indeed but Black Rook was making the same point and said about Scotland "Why not just let them go?"

    I'd think you should be welcoming the English who are happy to let Scotland go, not insulting them.
    Well anyone trying to pretend that England finances Scotland needs insulting. We have been milked for years and in last few years lots of money has been borrowed and "supposedly" spent on Scotland, England does not and never has financed Scotland. I have no time for idiots who think they are paying for us as if they are kind hearted benefactors rather than dumb idiots.
    “Has never financed Scotland”

    Err. Darien...?
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,241



    Loosen up as the dark evenings approach? Stuff that.

    The idea indoor crowds are not needed in the summer is madness. Yes it can be nice to drink outside in a summer's afternoon, but what happens when it starts raining? Or as it becomes night-time? People still want the option of going indoors, then going back outside when the weather allows.

    Personal choice and freedom to decide.

    A public health emergency may override the freedom to make damaging personal decisions. We've been here before last Christmas when it had much more force - "Families want to be together - we can't stop grandparents from seeing their families". Johnson encouraged that until it was clear that it would spark a resurgence of the pandemic, when he (rightly) performed a screeching U-turn. You're seriously saying that a major public health emergency that we've all been battling for a year should be compromised because it's nice to be able to crowd indoors even in the summer - after all, it might rain?

    To some extent, the issue has been compounded by the focus on hospitalisation and death, to the point that it's assumed that if you don't die then the disease is no big deal - "like flu", as Donald Trump used to say. That's far from the case for many (young) people. The problem is not with the vaccinated elderly. It's with younger people who have not yet been vaccinated and are still exposed.

    To be fair to the Government and society generally, we've collectively come a long way in reducing the scale of the pandemic. We really do not want to go back to major crisis and lockdown in the autumn, just because you might like to have a drink in a crowd on a rainy evening in June. B
    If the totality of restrictions this summer is standing outside with an umbrella in one hand and a pint in the other...

    This is Britain - we *live* in the rain....
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    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 39,966
    So we have SoS for Scotland, the minister for the Union (hi BJ!), various short lived heads of the Union Unit and now another cabinet minister? You're spoiling us.

    https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1374996797530210304?s=20
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 60,969
    Mr. Charles, I agree.

    "Hey, you. Yeah, you. Younger adult. Person unlikely to be affected much by COVID. Whose job was disrupted while the retired were protected. And who hasn't had a jab, unlike the elderly. Stay out of the pub. It's only for the vaccinated."

    I don't like it.

    [As an aside, I won't be personally affected as I'm a massive introvert, which turns out to be a survival trait in 2020-1].
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    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,924
    AlistairM said:

    eek said:

    Which is fine provided everyone has at least been offered the chance of vaccination.

    Do that before everyone in the UK has had a chance and there will be riots*

    * or more likely tutting while pubs ignore the rule as unenforceable.
    Younger people have been hit the hardest in terms of incomes and quality of life in this pandemic. They have given up the most and for a disease which is incredibly unlikely to cause them any harm.

    Now they might be told that having gone through all of this they have to sit and watch whilst all the vaccinated oldies go to the pub and socialise again whilst they have to wait. If I were still a young persion I would be furious.

    At 43 years old I am in the middle. I haven't been vaccinated yet but hopefully will be in the next couple of months. If I were told that all those lucky people who have vaccinated can go to the pub but I can't after having waited so long then I am not going to be happy.

    Perhaps there is some middle-path? Evenings are getting lighter, days are getting warmer. Maybe those vaccinated can go inside pubs but those not are restricted to beer gardens? I'd be happy with that as a reasonable compromise.
    It would have to work on honesty though, I don't see how it could be enforced!
    Had a text exchange with No 2 grandson (18 in a few weeks time) yesterday. I said something about going for a proper drink, sitting in a pub and he agreed. We than had a conversation about which night and I pointed out that being out in the pub on Friday nights was but a memory for me; it was his turn.
    Which thought he rather liked!
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,241
    Charles said:

    The difference is - I believe - that every adult in Israel has been offered a vaccine.

    You simply can’t cleave the population in 2 when so many haven’t had the offer of a vaccine
    An interesting point was raised by a local coffee shop owner, on the local chat groups.

    She has an employee, who has been shielding, but wants to get back to work. She is both immune compromised and not able to have the vaccination.

    The shop owner wants her back, but what about the risk to the employee? Hence the discussion turned to vaccine passports.
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    FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 76,274
    edited March 2021

    I got a Labour leaflet through the door yesterday and it was full of public sector this, public sector that. To be honest it was really off-putting. I have no idea who I’m going to vote for for Newcastle City Council.

    They really are lost in the woods. Most people are not public sector. Most people are not on Zero Hours contracts. Most people are not eeking out an existence on social security. yet that seems to be all Labour talk about.
    What Labour seem to misunderstand is that they see ZHC as evil, exploitative and know better than those employed by them and should be banned. When many who are employed by them actually like the flexibility which enables them to work around family commitments or have a side hustle for extra cash and don't want them banned.

    Where they should concentrate their efforts is more around some of the unfair opaque ways the likes of Deliveroo pay, with rewards based on different payment per order, plus an ever changing multipler plus daily "quests". It makes it impossible to even have a handle on what you might make in a shift.

    Another change I would suggest is something along the lines of if you work for a business on ZHC for a significant period and would like a full time or more regular role there should be a way that can be facilitated.
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,399
    edited March 2021
    Here's another of those good BBC summary video reports.

    (Trigger warning: 10 seconds of Comical Dave's NS piece lurking in the middle)

    https://twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/1374830047480184841

    What's his full name? I am culturally and familially conditioned to see "Ros" as an old lady knitting (see The Herbs), or a feminist in dungarees bearing a vegetarian sandwich.

    Is this a Cornwall thing, and my problem is that I am an emmet?
  • Options

    I see yet again the types predicting that Scots are about to join their English bredren in waging war on the EU are barking up the wrong tree. SNP majority and my Tories booted back to humiliating third forecast are looking good.

    https://twitter.com/davidmacdougall/status/1374876727609065474?s=20
    Scotland is divided, angry and intolerance abounds, it is not a good look

    The polls are indicating a near 50/50 split and I just do not see this atmosphere calming for years to come

    It just saddens me
    The 4 years of turmoil post brexit vote would look comparatively simple.

    As someone who loves Scotland and its people, the prospect of years of angry constitutional conflicts saddens me
    Absolutely.

    That’s why an argument of “it’ll all be fine and people will re-align and accept the result” just isn’t going to happen.

    Particularly when some of the harder consequences become clear - I.e raising /adjusting spending to cover any deficit that arises.

    Obviously the UK would have to do a lot in terms of moving assets like trident. But supposed we moved it to Cumbria - like Barrow in Furness. Surely the issue of having nuclear weapons literally next to Scotland still remains an issue
    When I left school in Berwick I travelled to Edinburgh every day by train to work for six months

    I would expect mass migration of Scots to the English side of the border if Scotland goes independent, as their taxation is likely to be much higher

    And of course the question of passports and currency would come into it

    I hardly believe I am writing this
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,251
    edited March 2021

    I got a Labour leaflet through the door yesterday and it was full of public sector this, public sector that. To be honest it was really off-putting. I have no idea who I’m going to vote for for Newcastle City Council.

    They really are lost in the woods. Most people are not public sector. Most people are not on Zero Hours contracts. Most people are not eeking out an existence on social security. yet that seems to be all Labour talk about.
    Its a safety zone. It fits the mindset of the world divided into oppressors and the oppressed, with public sector employees being honorary oppressed.
    Welcome to PB CursingStone
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    edited March 2021

    Charles said:

    The difference is - I believe - that every adult in Israel has been offered a vaccine.

    You simply can’t cleave the population in 2 when so many haven’t had the offer of a vaccine
    An interesting point was raised by a local coffee shop owner, on the local chat groups.

    She has an employee, who has been shielding, but wants to get back to work. She is both immune compromised and not able to have the vaccination.

    The shop owner wants her back, but what about the risk to the employee? Hence the discussion turned to vaccine passports.
    Sad to say I don’t think you can design the world around a small group of people in that employee’s position. Once you have a mass of vaccinated individuals then you open up.

    Clearly the employer can make a commercial decision but it shouldn’t be mandated by law
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378

    Charles said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Cyclefree said:

    twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1374844345036201991/photo/1

    I just can't see any pub doing it. What pub that has been closed off and on for nearly a year is going to turn down business, and that's before the issue of trying to tell the public who are gagging to get back down the pub, sorry lad, your names not down your not coming in. There will be riots.

    twitter.com/MrHarryCole/status/1374844345036201991/photo/1

    I just can't see any pub doing it. What pub that has been closed off and on for nearly a year is going to turn down business, and that's before the issue of trying to tell the public who are gagging to get back down the pub, sorry lad, your names not down your not coming in. There will be riots.
    The only ones I can imagine doing it are small ones with lots of reliable elderly regulars who don't want someone taking the piss and risking their safety. But if that's what the landlord and the regulars want that should be their free choice, the others will choose differently.
    According to thr Guardian, the trade-off Johnson is considering is that pubs that insist will be allowed to waive social distancing, while it would remain legally required in pubs open to all. Would that be acceptable to you, or do you feel that indoor crowding is fine regardless?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/24/pubs-should-decide-whether-to-demand-vaccine-passports-pm-says

    I can't really see many pubs making social distancing work - round here you could only get about 20 punters in 2 metres apart.

    No, absolutely not to this utterly stupid suggestion.

    Daughter completely opposed to this. Neither her nor any of her employees will be vaccinated by then. If you don't need a vaccination to work in a pub you don't need one to drink in it. She cannot afford the staff to go round doing tests, demanding certificates or anything else. And people want to go to pubs to enjoy themselves not be treated as if they're at some out patients clinic.

    Lift the restrictions and allow publicans to run their businesses as they see fit. This endless micro-managing by people who have no understanding of this - or any other - business has got to stop.

    We were told that once deaths and cases were down restrictions would be lifted. They are down and will be even lower by May let alone by the end of June. So enough with the restrictions.

    It feels - and has for some time - felt that somewhere in government they are deliberately targeting pubs so as to make them unviable, regardless of Covid. Look at the nonsense re not allowing them to sell takeaway alcohol, even now, for instance, and the pitiful support given to wet led pubs.

    If this sort of nonsense continues Daughter is simply going to close her business. There is no point continuing if the government makes it impossible for her to trade profitably. It's been in the balance for a while.She's been holding on and on and on. But stuff like this being canvassed - let alone introduced - is just another kick in the teeth.


    For what it's worth, personally think that hospitality workers SHOULD get priority for vaccination.

    Note that in WA State (and no doubt other places) similar priority now for grocery store workers. Who are clearly essentially workers, at least for the 99.46% of us who like to eat semi-regularly.

    Bar & restaurant workers may NOT be as essential (though you & daughter may disagree) but IF bars & etc. are going to open on a significant basis, then staff should be protected the best way possible.

    And that's with a jab or two.
    The USA seems to have tonnes of "priority" groups, and loads of even youngish people I follow on twitter are getting vaxxed there.
    But yet your vaccination rates are behind the UK.
    The collorary is there must be vast swathes of people who aren't bothering in a scale that simply isn't happening in the UK
    That’s what I’ve been told about Utah (which my contact told me is a red thing not a Mormon thing). They have opened up vaccination to anyone who wants from 16 or above because they only have a 30% take up
    I am planning a thread header on the different attitudes towards the pandemic and vaccination by Republican and Democratic party supporters. The gap is huge and Utah is strongly Republican
    There's also this.

    Urban dwellers have more luck finding vaccines in rural, redder counties
    Some people are traveling far distances to snag extra doses — often from cities to more rural counties
    https://www.salon.com/2021/03/24/urban-dwellers-often-have-more-luck-obtaining-vaccines-in-rural-redder-counties/
  • Options

    I see yet again the types predicting that Scots are about to join their English bredren in waging war on the EU are barking up the wrong tree. SNP majority and my Tories booted back to humiliating third forecast are looking good.

    https://twitter.com/davidmacdougall/status/1374876727609065474?s=20
    Scotland is divided, angry and intolerance abounds, it is not a good look

    The polls are indicating a near 50/50 split and I just do not see this atmosphere calming for years to come

    It just saddens me
    The 4 years of turmoil post brexit vote would look comparatively simple.

    As someone who loves Scotland and its people, the prospect of years of angry constitutional conflicts saddens me
    Absolutely.

    That’s why an argument of “it’ll all be fine and people will re-align and accept the result” just isn’t going to happen.

    Particularly when some of the harder consequences become clear - I.e raising /adjusting spending to cover any deficit that arises.

    Obviously the UK would have to do a lot in terms of moving assets like trident. But supposed we moved it to Cumbria - like Barrow in Furness. Surely the issue of having nuclear weapons literally next to Scotland still remains an issue
    And of course what happens to RAF Lossiemouth and the building of naval ships on the Clyde
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,129

    Morning all.

    Trip to the hospital today to have what is probably a hernia looked at.

    Lucky me! 🍀

    Back in the day reducing hernias and fitting trusses was part of pharmacists NHS contractual duties.

    Could be quite unpleasant. I still recall the patient who stank like an unwashed badger.
    My colleague had a problem way back with a patient of uncertain sex (so not knowing which of the pharmacy team was suitable to provide the fitting...)
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    Hardly surprising:

    https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1374986040646246401?s=20

    No good deed goes unpunished.....
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,241

    I got a Labour leaflet through the door yesterday and it was full of public sector this, public sector that. To be honest it was really off-putting. I have no idea who I’m going to vote for for Newcastle City Council.

    They really are lost in the woods. Most people are not public sector. Most people are not on Zero Hours contracts. Most people are not eeking out an existence on social security. yet that seems to be all Labour talk about.
    What Labour seem to misunderstand is that they see ZHC as evil, exploitative and know better than those employed by them and should be banned. When many who are employed them actually like the flexibility which enables them to work around family commitments or have a side hustle for extra cash and don't want them banned.

    Where they should concentrate their efforts is more around some of the unfair opaque ways the likes of Deliveroo pay, with rewards based on different payment per order, plus an ever changing multipler plus daily "quests". It makes it impossible to even have a handle on what you might make in a shift.

    Another change I would suggest is something along the lines of if you work for a business on ZHC for a significant period and would like a full time or more regular role there should be a way that can be facilitated.
    The issue is the style of employment - and the mentality of management.

    Gig work/ZHC is very useful for the free-wheeling lifestyle of some artists/designers (for example) who want to do a bunch of work, then have 3 months off.

    At the other end, it has become a method of getting around the minimum wage and pushing employment conditions down.

    The trick would be to drop a bridge on the later, while leaving the former to get on with it
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,378
    edited March 2021

    Foxy said:

    On topic I have a sense, just a sense, that we may have passed peak Boris and trough Nicola.

    Nicola appears to have weathered the storm and, by heck, she's a survivor isn't she? A very very tough politician. Formidable.

    Boris, meanwhile, seems to me to have lost some of his vaccine lustre. Why so? Well, there's no point vaccinating the population only to move the goalposts on easing of restrictions. We were promised a green light back to normality but now, unlike Israel, all we're getting is scaremongering and the early signs (again) of promises to be reneged on. Foreign holidays is one. Vaccine passports to have a pub pint another.

    The row with the EU and vaccine supply drop has also turned ugly. It's all very well crowing about our own stunning success story but this is suddenly looking a little less clever. To be fair to Boris, he has been measured in his dealings with the EU over this. But it's still a mess, with our semi-British AZN project shining a little less brightly. A lot of this is Europe's fault but not all.

    Then there's the NHS pay offer. Whatever the sound reasons, a 1% rise looked and sounded like a kick in the teeth. And, lo and behold, NHS Scotland have just been offered 4%.

    I sense peak Boris has passed. And so has trough Nicola.

    Now is the time to flutter on the SNP ... and independence.

    Peak Boris will be when the benefit of the vaccine programme delivers on the promise of a normal life. When people are back in pubs and restaurants with friends and family - and no worries that we will have to go through a shitty year like 2020-1 again.

    .
    I think that misses my point. Your utopian vision may never happen. That's why I'm suggesting we may have just passed peak Boris.
    I think Johnson will ride the vaccination wave for a good while yet, but I do agree with you about Sturgeon having passed her trough - added to which, the Scottish Tories have badly overplayed their hand.
    Yes, it looks as if Sturgeon is staying, and it's hard to see what more Salmond and his Tory allies can do to damage her. Worth looking again at those odds on an SNP overall majority?
    Sturgeon is staying and the ScotCons have damaged themselves. The leaks from their enquiry - whilst complaining about good governance - look bad. Their report looks out of step following Nippy's all clear from the lawyer. All feels somewhat opportunists, and unless you can take out the target it always backfires.

    Tomorrow I'm taking delivery of my first bags of LibDem leaflets to deliver, so I am not ramping the SNP for personal reasons. But I do think they're heading for a small majority with all that such a result means for the stability of the union....
    The 4% rise for NHS staff, a day before Scotland goes into pre-election purdah, is cynical, but will no doubt aid that.

  • Options

    Hardly surprising:

    https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1374986040646246401?s=20

    No good deed goes unpunished.....

    Why would anybody invest in the EU after this shocking episode

    The UK stands to welcome all companies

    Interesting as was reported earlier that Air Lingus is relocating 4 aircraft to Manchester and expecting to move to Belfast
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 18,399
    edited March 2021

    Foxy said:

    On topic I have a sense, just a sense, that we may have passed peak Boris and trough Nicola.

    Nicola appears to have weathered the storm and, by heck, she's a survivor isn't she? A very very tough politician. Formidable.

    Boris, meanwhile, seems to me to have lost some of his vaccine lustre. Why so? Well, there's no point vaccinating the population only to move the goalposts on easing of restrictions. We were promised a green light back to normality but now, unlike Israel, all we're getting is scaremongering and the early signs (again) of promises to be reneged on. Foreign holidays is one. Vaccine passports to have a pub pint another.

    The row with the EU and vaccine supply drop has also turned ugly. It's all very well crowing about our own stunning success story but this is suddenly looking a little less clever. To be fair to Boris, he has been measured in his dealings with the EU over this. But it's still a mess, with our semi-British AZN project shining a little less brightly. A lot of this is Europe's fault but not all.

    Then there's the NHS pay offer. Whatever the sound reasons, a 1% rise looked and sounded like a kick in the teeth. And, lo and behold, NHS Scotland have just been offered 4%.

    I sense peak Boris has passed. And so has trough Nicola.

    Now is the time to flutter on the SNP ... and independence.

    Peak Boris will be when the benefit of the vaccine programme delivers on the promise of a normal life. When people are back in pubs and restaurants with friends and family - and no worries that we will have to go through a shitty year like 2020-1 again.

    .
    I think that misses my point. Your utopian vision may never happen. That's why I'm suggesting we may have just passed peak Boris.
    I think Johnson will ride the vaccination wave for a good while yet, but I do agree with you about Sturgeon having passed her trough - added to which, the Scottish Tories have badly overplayed their hand.
    Yes, it looks as if Sturgeon is staying, and it's hard to see what more Salmond and his Tory allies can do to damage her. Worth looking again at those odds on an SNP overall majority?
    Sturgeon is staying and the ScotCons have damaged themselves. The leaks from their enquiry - whilst complaining about good governance - look bad. Their report looks out of step following Nippy's all clear from the lawyer. All feels somewhat opportunists, and unless you can take out the target it always backfires.

    Tomorrow I'm taking delivery of my first bags of LibDem leaflets to deliver, so I am not ramping the SNP for personal reasons. But I do think they're heading for a small majority with all that such a result means for the stability of the union.

    Until English Tories accept that their bludgeoning style of government is explicitly doing damage, this won't get any better. The ludicrous faff over flags, culminating in yesterday's command to fly the Union flag on all UK buildings at all times just winds people up.
    Question that "Their Report", "Their Enquiry".

    How does that work? Set up by the Scottish Gov with a Gov party chair and a Gov supporting majority, and crippling terms of reference and practise.

    What have I missed?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811
    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    I expect the SNP to gain a small majority but not convinced about the mandate for indyref2

    I think it is too close to call

    The fun and games are just getting started.

    What do you think's going to happen if the Welsh polls are anything close to accurate and Plaid ends up controlling the balance of power again - especially now that Labour has started actively promoting pro-independence candidates?

    Yep, we're going to have both the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments demanding votes on secession, loudly and continuously, at the same time. For five interminable years. Joy.
    Wales doesn't want indy, they want attention

    As for Scotland, Canada coped with Quebec, and Canada remains united. Hold your nerve, under fire, Sergeant Rook
    A lot of people probably said the same kind of thing about Scotland two decades ago. Look where they are now.

    The central issue I have with the maintenance of the Union is this: nearly half of Scotland voted to jack it in a few years back, and a substantial fraction of them loathe us. Why are we therefore expected to spend enormous amounts of time and enormous sums of money holding it all together. Why not just let them go?

    I'm by no means certain that Wales will go the same way, but it has to be counted as a decent chance. If Labour doesn't think there's a lot of mileage to be made out of nationalism then why does it select openly pro-independence candidates?

    If the UK disintegrates then we get England back as an irreducible core. We can then have a quiet life. Why shouldn't we?
    deluded thinking yet again, the reason they are clinging on to Scotland is fact they are ,milking us, your deluded hafwittery that England subsidises Scotland says it all, keep the English dumb and happy with lies that they actually finance Scotland. What utter bollox, if you lot are so great why are you crapping it re a referendum.
    We're not. Why do you feel the need to insult the English who are on your side about Scottish independence?
    I was not insulting you, I was pointing out to the idiot who has no clue and seriously imagines he funds Scotland. I appreciate some people know what democracy is and would support people being able to have a vote like normal people do.
    Indeed but Black Rook was making the same point and said about Scotland "Why not just let them go?"

    I'd think you should be welcoming the English who are happy to let Scotland go, not insulting them.
    Well anyone trying to pretend that England finances Scotland needs insulting. We have been milked for years and in last few years lots of money has been borrowed and "supposedly" spent on Scotland, England does not and never has financed Scotland. I have no time for idiots who think they are paying for us as if they are kind hearted benefactors rather than dumb idiots.
    “Has never financed Scotland”

    Err. Darien...?
    Err , England did not finance Darien , it wrecked it with blockades and made money out of it??????????????????
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,161

    Hardly surprising:

    https://twitter.com/kateferguson4/status/1374986040646246401?s=20

    No good deed goes unpunished.....

    Why would anybody invest in the EU after this shocking episode

    The UK stands to welcome all companies

    Interesting as was reported earlier that Air Lingus is relocating 4 aircraft to Manchester and expecting to move to Belfast
    Complete disaster for europe. And sadly only just getting going. The euro/ecb system is going to come under astonishing pressure as the new wave keeps economic activity very low. Southern eu states debt anyone?
  • Options
    SandpitSandpit Posts: 49,847
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic I have a sense, just a sense, that we may have passed peak Boris and trough Nicola.

    Nicola appears to have weathered the storm and, by heck, she's a survivor isn't she? A very very tough politician. Formidable.

    Boris, meanwhile, seems to me to have lost some of his vaccine lustre. Why so? Well, there's no point vaccinating the population only to move the goalposts on easing of restrictions. We were promised a green light back to normality but now, unlike Israel, all we're getting is scaremongering and the early signs (again) of promises to be reneged on. Foreign holidays is one. Vaccine passports to have a pub pint another.

    The row with the EU and vaccine supply drop has also turned ugly. It's all very well crowing about our own stunning success story but this is suddenly looking a little less clever. To be fair to Boris, he has been measured in his dealings with the EU over this. But it's still a mess, with our semi-British AZN project shining a little less brightly. A lot of this is Europe's fault but not all.

    Then there's the NHS pay offer. Whatever the sound reasons, a 1% rise looked and sounded like a kick in the teeth. And, lo and behold, NHS Scotland have just been offered 4%.

    I sense peak Boris has passed. And so has trough Nicola.

    Now is the time to flutter on the SNP ... and independence.

    Peak Boris will be when the benefit of the vaccine programme delivers on the promise of a normal life. When people are back in pubs and restaurants with friends and family - and no worries that we will have to go through a shitty year like 2020-1 again.

    .
    I think that misses my point. Your utopian vision may never happen. That's why I'm suggesting we may have just passed peak Boris.
    I think Johnson will ride the vaccination wave for a good while yet, but I do agree with you about Sturgeon having passed her trough - added to which, the Scottish Tories have badly overplayed their hand.
    Yes, it looks as if Sturgeon is staying, and it's hard to see what more Salmond and his Tory allies can do to damage her. Worth looking again at those odds on an SNP overall majority?
    Sturgeon is staying and the ScotCons have damaged themselves. The leaks from their enquiry - whilst complaining about good governance - look bad. Their report looks out of step following Nippy's all clear from the lawyer. All feels somewhat opportunists, and unless you can take out the target it always backfires.

    Tomorrow I'm taking delivery of my first bags of LibDem leaflets to deliver, so I am not ramping the SNP for personal reasons. But I do think they're heading for a small majority with all that such a result means for the stability of the union.

    Until English Tories accept that their bludgeoning style of government is explicitly doing damage, this won't get any better. The ludicrous faff over flags, culminating in yesterday's command to fly the Union flag on all UK buildings at all times just winds people up.
    Question that "Their Report", "Their Enquiry".

    How does that work? Set up by the Scottish Gov with a Gov party chair and a Gov supporting majority, and crippling terms of reference and practise.

    What have I missed?
    They replaced the bucket of popcorn with a bucket of whitewash.
  • Options
    CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 59,576
    MattW said:

    Here's another of those good BBC summary video reports.

    (Trigger warning: 10 seconds of Comical Dave's NS piece lurking in the middle)

    https://twitter.com/BBCRosAtkins/status/1374830047480184841

    What's his full name? I am culturally and familially conditioned to see "Ros" as an old lady knitting (see The Herbs), or a feminist in dungarees bearing a vegetarian sandwich.

    Is this a Cornwall thing, and my problem is that I am an emmet?

    Grew up in Cornwall, so it may well be a Cornwall thing:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/profiles/4hrGCHhtR1gRT0ktCYQ575V/ros-atkins
  • Options
    Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 12,982



    And of course what happens to RAF Lossiemouth and the building of naval ships on the Clyde

    Typhoons for Northern Q to Leeming - it's the only base with HAS and space so no choice really.

    P-8/E-7 to Waddo.

    Lossie gets a NATO air policing mission like Iceland.

    The T26/T31 frigates are all modular builds so they'd have to be assembled at vast expense elsewhere.
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 24,932
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    On topic I have a sense, just a sense, that we may have passed peak Boris and trough Nicola.

    Nicola appears to have weathered the storm and, by heck, she's a survivor isn't she? A very very tough politician. Formidable.

    Boris, meanwhile, seems to me to have lost some of his vaccine lustre. Why so? Well, there's no point vaccinating the population only to move the goalposts on easing of restrictions. We were promised a green light back to normality but now, unlike Israel, all we're getting is scaremongering and the early signs (again) of promises to be reneged on. Foreign holidays is one. Vaccine passports to have a pub pint another.

    The row with the EU and vaccine supply drop has also turned ugly. It's all very well crowing about our own stunning success story but this is suddenly looking a little less clever. To be fair to Boris, he has been measured in his dealings with the EU over this. But it's still a mess, with our semi-British AZN project shining a little less brightly. A lot of this is Europe's fault but not all.

    Then there's the NHS pay offer. Whatever the sound reasons, a 1% rise looked and sounded like a kick in the teeth. And, lo and behold, NHS Scotland have just been offered 4%.

    I sense peak Boris has passed. And so has trough Nicola.

    Now is the time to flutter on the SNP ... and independence.

    Peak Boris will be when the benefit of the vaccine programme delivers on the promise of a normal life. When people are back in pubs and restaurants with friends and family - and no worries that we will have to go through a shitty year like 2020-1 again.

    .
    I think that misses my point. Your utopian vision may never happen. That's why I'm suggesting we may have just passed peak Boris.
    I think Johnson will ride the vaccination wave for a good while yet, but I do agree with you about Sturgeon having passed her trough - added to which, the Scottish Tories have badly overplayed their hand.
    Yes, it looks as if Sturgeon is staying, and it's hard to see what more Salmond and his Tory allies can do to damage her. Worth looking again at those odds on an SNP overall majority?
    Sturgeon is staying and the ScotCons have damaged themselves. The leaks from their enquiry - whilst complaining about good governance - look bad. Their report looks out of step following Nippy's all clear from the lawyer. All feels somewhat opportunists, and unless you can take out the target it always backfires.

    Tomorrow I'm taking delivery of my first bags of LibDem leaflets to deliver, so I am not ramping the SNP for personal reasons. But I do think they're heading for a small majority with all that such a result means for the stability of the union.

    Until English Tories accept that their bludgeoning style of government is explicitly doing damage, this won't get any better. The ludicrous faff over flags, culminating in yesterday's command to fly the Union flag on all UK buildings at all times just winds people up.
    Question that "Their Report", "Their Enquiry".

    How does that work? Set up by the Scottish Gov with a Gov party chair and a Gov supporting majority, and crippling terms of reference and practise.

    What have I missed?

    I got a Labour leaflet through the door yesterday and it was full of public sector this, public sector that. To be honest it was really off-putting. I have no idea who I’m going to vote for for Newcastle City Council.

    They really are lost in the woods. Most people are not public sector. Most people are not on Zero Hours contracts. Most people are not eeking out an existence on social security. yet that seems to be all Labour talk about.
    What Labour seem to misunderstand is that they see ZHC as evil, exploitative and know better than those employed by them and should be banned. When many who are employed them actually like the flexibility which enables them to work around family commitments or have a side hustle for extra cash and don't want them banned.

    Where they should concentrate their efforts is more around some of the unfair opaque ways the likes of Deliveroo pay, with rewards based on different payment per order, plus an ever changing multipler plus daily "quests". It makes it impossible to even have a handle on what you might make in a shift.

    Another change I would suggest is something along the lines of if you work for a business on ZHC for a significant period and would like a full time or more regular role there should be a way that can be facilitated.
    The issue is the style of employment - and the mentality of management.

    Gig work/ZHC is very useful for the free-wheeling lifestyle of some artists/designers (for example) who want to do a bunch of work, then have 3 months off.

    At the other end, it has become a method of getting around the minimum wage and pushing employment conditions down.

    The trick would be to drop a bridge on the later, while leaving the former to get on with it
    ZHC are not a way of getting round the minimum wage - it's rather hard to get around that.

    The approach that is used by Uber and elsewhere is to pay per minute and only include the time you are actually working / deliverying. In their eyes standing round waiting for an order to be placed doesn't count.

  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,241
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    The difference is - I believe - that every adult in Israel has been offered a vaccine.

    You simply can’t cleave the population in 2 when so many haven’t had the offer of a vaccine
    An interesting point was raised by a local coffee shop owner, on the local chat groups.

    She has an employee, who has been shielding, but wants to get back to work. She is both immune compromised and not able to have the vaccination.

    The shop owner wants her back, but what about the risk to the employee? Hence the discussion turned to vaccine passports.
    Sad to say I don’t think you can design the world around a small group of people in that employee’s position. Once you have a mass of vaccinated individuals then you open up.

    Clearly the employer can make a commercial decision but it shouldn’t be mandated by law
    But should she be able to demand proof of vaccination?

    To complicate that, nearby are areas of low vaccination due to cultural issues (as discussed here)
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    I expect the SNP to gain a small majority but not convinced about the mandate for indyref2

    I think it is too close to call

    The fun and games are just getting started.

    What do you think's going to happen if the Welsh polls are anything close to accurate and Plaid ends up controlling the balance of power again - especially now that Labour has started actively promoting pro-independence candidates?

    Yep, we're going to have both the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments demanding votes on secession, loudly and continuously, at the same time. For five interminable years. Joy.
    Wales doesn't want indy, they want attention

    As for Scotland, Canada coped with Quebec, and Canada remains united. Hold your nerve, under fire, Sergeant Rook
    A lot of people probably said the same kind of thing about Scotland two decades ago. Look where they are now.

    The central issue I have with the maintenance of the Union is this: nearly half of Scotland voted to jack it in a few years back, and a substantial fraction of them loathe us. Why are we therefore expected to spend enormous amounts of time and enormous sums of money holding it all together. Why not just let them go?

    I'm by no means certain that Wales will go the same way, but it has to be counted as a decent chance. If Labour doesn't think there's a lot of mileage to be made out of nationalism then why does it select openly pro-independence candidates?

    If the UK disintegrates then we get England back as an irreducible core. We can then have a quiet life. Why shouldn't we?
    deluded thinking yet again, the reason they are clinging on to Scotland is fact they are ,milking us, your deluded hafwittery that England subsidises Scotland says it all, keep the English dumb and happy with lies that they actually finance Scotland. What utter bollox, if you lot are so great why are you crapping it re a referendum.
    We're not. Why do you feel the need to insult the English who are on your side about Scottish independence?
    I was not insulting you, I was pointing out to the idiot who has no clue and seriously imagines he funds Scotland. I appreciate some people know what democracy is and would support people being able to have a vote like normal people do.
    Indeed but Black Rook was making the same point and said about Scotland "Why not just let them go?"

    I'd think you should be welcoming the English who are happy to let Scotland go, not insulting them.
    Well anyone trying to pretend that England finances Scotland needs insulting. We have been milked for years and in last few years lots of money has been borrowed and "supposedly" spent on Scotland, England does not and never has financed Scotland. I have no time for idiots who think they are paying for us as if they are kind hearted benefactors rather than dumb idiots.
    “Has never financed Scotland”

    Err. Darien...?
    Err , England did not finance Darien , it wrecked it with blockades and made money out of it??????????????????
    It’s not my period, but my recollection was that the failure of Darien bankrupted Scotland the the UK took on the Scottish national debt?
  • Options
    CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    malcolmg said:

    Charles said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    malcolmg said:

    Leon said:

    I expect the SNP to gain a small majority but not convinced about the mandate for indyref2

    I think it is too close to call

    The fun and games are just getting started.

    What do you think's going to happen if the Welsh polls are anything close to accurate and Plaid ends up controlling the balance of power again - especially now that Labour has started actively promoting pro-independence candidates?

    Yep, we're going to have both the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments demanding votes on secession, loudly and continuously, at the same time. For five interminable years. Joy.
    Wales doesn't want indy, they want attention

    As for Scotland, Canada coped with Quebec, and Canada remains united. Hold your nerve, under fire, Sergeant Rook
    A lot of people probably said the same kind of thing about Scotland two decades ago. Look where they are now.

    The central issue I have with the maintenance of the Union is this: nearly half of Scotland voted to jack it in a few years back, and a substantial fraction of them loathe us. Why are we therefore expected to spend enormous amounts of time and enormous sums of money holding it all together. Why not just let them go?

    I'm by no means certain that Wales will go the same way, but it has to be counted as a decent chance. If Labour doesn't think there's a lot of mileage to be made out of nationalism then why does it select openly pro-independence candidates?

    If the UK disintegrates then we get England back as an irreducible core. We can then have a quiet life. Why shouldn't we?
    deluded thinking yet again, the reason they are clinging on to Scotland is fact they are ,milking us, your deluded hafwittery that England subsidises Scotland says it all, keep the English dumb and happy with lies that they actually finance Scotland. What utter bollox, if you lot are so great why are you crapping it re a referendum.
    We're not. Why do you feel the need to insult the English who are on your side about Scottish independence?
    I was not insulting you, I was pointing out to the idiot who has no clue and seriously imagines he funds Scotland. I appreciate some people know what democracy is and would support people being able to have a vote like normal people do.
    Indeed but Black Rook was making the same point and said about Scotland "Why not just let them go?"

    I'd think you should be welcoming the English who are happy to let Scotland go, not insulting them.
    Well anyone trying to pretend that England finances Scotland needs insulting. We have been milked for years and in last few years lots of money has been borrowed and "supposedly" spent on Scotland, England does not and never has financed Scotland. I have no time for idiots who think they are paying for us as if they are kind hearted benefactors rather than dumb idiots.
    “Has never financed Scotland”

    Err. Darien...?
    Err , England did not finance Darien , it wrecked it with blockades and made money out of it??????????????????
    It’s not my period, but my recollection was that the failure of Darien bankrupted Scotland the the UK took on the Scottish national debt?
  • Options
    malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 41,811

    I see yet again the types predicting that Scots are about to join their English bredren in waging war on the EU are barking up the wrong tree. SNP majority and my Tories booted back to humiliating third forecast are looking good.

    https://twitter.com/davidmacdougall/status/1374876727609065474?s=20
    Scotland is divided, angry and intolerance abounds, it is not a good look

    The polls are indicating a near 50/50 split and I just do not see this atmosphere calming for years to come

    It just saddens me
    The 4 years of turmoil post brexit vote would look comparatively simple.

    As someone who loves Scotland and its people, the prospect of years of angry constitutional conflicts saddens me
    Absolutely.

    That’s why an argument of “it’ll all be fine and people will re-align and accept the result” just isn’t going to happen.

    Particularly when some of the harder consequences become clear - I.e raising /adjusting spending to cover any deficit that arises.

    Obviously the UK would have to do a lot in terms of moving assets like trident. But supposed we moved it to Cumbria - like Barrow in Furness. Surely the issue of having nuclear weapons literally next to Scotland still remains an issue
    When I left school in Berwick I travelled to Edinburgh every day by train to work for six months

    I would expect mass migration of Scots to the English side of the border if Scotland goes independent, as their taxation is likely to be much higher

    And of course the question of passports and currency would come into it

    I hardly believe I am writing this
    It is already for higher rate taxpayers , starts at 43K and 41p in the pound , though lower at bottom end.
    I do fail to see how you think it will be higher than England though.
    High time people outside Scotland butted out and the UK had some democracy.
    If we want to run our own affairs and have higher or lower taxes then that is our decision , we should not be a colony to be held ransom by another country.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,161
    Charles said:

    The difference is - I believe - that every adult in Israel has been offered a vaccine.

    You simply can’t cleave the population in 2 when so many haven’t had the offer of a vaccine
    I agree.

    Strikes me as another example of lack of proportionate thinking.

    But interesting to see there is a real world example. Although someone has pointed out that this only applies if you try and sit inside the bar.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,249
    Charles said:

    Charles said:

    One big - and unresolved - problem for The Firm, is Andrew.

    Whose name was NOT mentioned (I think) in The Interview. BUT his malign stench hangs over this whole sorry business.

    The difference between the Palace's approach to his Foul Lowness is is MARKED contrast, to their treatment of his nephew & niece-in-law.

    For example, WHY is Andrew still HRH? When other royals have been stripped of THEIR titles for far, far less.

    Because he’s been accused but not proven guilty
    Unlike Meghan who is neither but gets your undying hatred, which rather backs up her own claims.
    I resent the implied allegation that you are making.

    Please withdraw and apologise, or I shall think the less of you.

    Meghan is a third tier actress who saw an opportunity to make the next step in her career. She has manipulated her husband, feeding his genuine issues and offering a false way out. She has succeeded in her personal objectives heedless of the cost to others.
    Charles I have said this before - either you know what is happening with the Sussexes in which case STFU or you don't, in which case STFU.
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