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  • Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    Self-driving cars.

    The very first thing the Government (any government) will do upon them being commercially available is ban any owner or driver from using them - even as a 100% passenger - whilst under the influence. There will be an incident sooner or later that's ambiguous on the face of it, even though it isn't, which will generate a tabloid headline, and that will be that.

    They will therefore kill off the main rationale for them for many people - i.e. as a personal taxi to support rural pubs and restaurants, and go out with friends.

    You're welcome.

    The whole idea is to use SD cars as your personal taxi. It needs to take me to work, come back empty and pick up the kids and take them to school, take wife to lunch and bring her back, go empty to school to pick up the kids, take them home then pick me up from the pub next door from the office half an hour after happy hour finishes. Otherwise, what’s the point of it?
    Indeed.
    Now run the numbers on what that means for road usage. Sure, at off-peak some of those trips are possible, but you’ve at a minimum doubled road usage at peak times if the vehicle has to both drive to and from your place of work.

    IOW, this personal utopia is not going to be possible if everyone does it. The "electric car as personal taxi" is an idea without a future - it will work for a while whilst it’s expensive and only a few people can afford it, but will rapidly become unworkable. Halving the passenger transport capacity of the existing road network is not going to go down well.

    This self-driving car research groups know this perfectly well of course, that’s why internally the talk is all about either using them as mass taxi fleets, or (this was Tesla’s big idea at one point), letting you rent out your vehicle as a local taxi when you’re not using it. Google is trying the former; the latter seems unlikely to work to me; who wants to come back to their personal vehicle to find it full of someone else’s litter (or vomit...)?
    Also, self-driving cars will quickly become targets of insurance fraudsters staging accidents.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,113
    edited February 2021
    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    You will have to bring your own biro or pencil though, masks will be compulsory if voting in person and sanitiser will be on hand.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55938380
    There’s going to be a large % of ppl who don’t bring their own pencil.

    What happens then?
    They get sent home to fetch one if they still want to vote
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Sandpit said:

    Endillion said:

    IanB2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Self-driving cars.

    The very first thing the Government (any government) will do upon them being commercially available is ban any owner or driver from using them - even as a 100% passenger - whilst under the influence. There will be an incident sooner or later that's ambiguous on the face of it, even though it isn't, which will generate a tabloid headline, and that will be that.

    They will therefore kill off the main rationale for them for many people - i.e. as a personal taxi to support rural pubs and restaurants, and go out with friends.

    You're welcome.

    It wouldn't require legislation; drunk in charge is already drunk in charge.
    But that is a lesser offence than the actual act of driving under the influence. Drunk in Charge , if I recall correctly, doesn’t have the mandatory 1year ban and can instead be punished with 11 penalty points. (Again this is from memory)

    So the question of how the law would define using a self driving car while pissed is still a legitimate one, surely?
    Anyone who thinks that being off your face in charge of a driverless car will be treated as anything other than the same as being off your face in a car they are driving, must be, er, off their face.
    The legal question will be whether you will actually have any control over it. If you don't, there's no problem. But more likely there'll be some emergency buttons to make it stop or swerve, which when drunk it might be tempting to have a play with....
    Another big problem there is that at some point, you'll have drivers on the road who learned to drive on automated vehicles and don't actually have any experience worth relying on. Teaching them sufficient awareness to know what to do in an emergency is likely to be extremely difficult.

    More generally, as others have said, automated vehicles are kind of an all-or-nothing deal. Fully automated with no human input is much simpler to implement than mostly automated. But it also means the tech has to be damn near perfect, which is an incredibly hard place to get to. Even if it could be proved to reduce accidents by (say) 50% on average, I think it would be very hard to get public opinion onside for it.
    This is already an issue for airline pilots, there’s plenty of accident reports that cite “Automation Dependency” as a factor - pilots who initially trained on highly automated modern planes, who struggle with basic flying skills under pressure of a failure of the automatics.
    It's also a wider societal issue - there is a lot of public mistrust in "algorithms" (some valid, some not) - not helped by things like the exam grades fiasco last summer. For a more nuanced example, see this recent decision by an Italian court that Deliveroo was inadvertently discriminating against some of its "contractors" via the algorithm used to assign jobs:
    https://cacm.acm.org/news/249760-court-rules-deliveroo-used-discriminatory-algorithm/fulltext

    If humans had been making those allocations, it would have been incredibly hard to prove that any specific incident constituted discrimination. But because the whole thing was handled by a computer, suddenly it's possible. So now they have to rewrite the whole thing every time someone comes up with a new bad outcome that they need to avoid.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    You will have to bring your own biro or pencil though, masks will be compulsory if voting in person and sanitiser will be on hand.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55938380
    There’s going to be a large % of ppl who don’t bring their own pencil.

    What happens then?
    They'll use the one in the booth instead?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    DavidL said:

    What is going on with the Scottish Crown Office? First Rangers, now this....

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMcEleny/status/1357464173152792578?s=20

    Not to mention the ill conceived prosecutions of journalists for contempt of court. One already thrown out, one waiting for a decision. It really is extraordinary.
    Who, if anyone, can hold them to account?

    The current Scottish government seems happy enough with their performance.
    Who are they? Are they a Government department? They're not the Scotland office. Is it the Queen? Excuse my ignorance, but someone needs to have more than a quiet word. It seems they are actively supporting Sturgeon's agenda, so this looks like a good opportunity to remove some bad apples.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,239
    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    You will have to bring your own biro or pencil though, masks will be compulsory if voting in person and sanitiser will be on hand.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55938380
    There’s going to be a large % of ppl who don’t bring their own pencil.

    What happens then?
    Disposables, perhaps.

    Ikea and Screwfix !
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,468
    HYUFD said:

    You will have to bring your own biro or pencil though, masks will be compulsory if voting in person and sanitiser will be on hand.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55938380
    Turnout is going to be very low.

    Bring your own biro is bollocks. The government should simply buy millions of disposable pencils.
  • IshmaelZ said:

    IanB2 said:

    malcolmg said:

    Poor old Carlotta and her pet food saleman , red faces yet again...........

    Turns out flawed, misleading LSE paper claiming independent Scotland would be “poorer” was actually written by two PhD students.
    Two PHD students assisted by a manner of vote No . They also have admitted that their findings were based on limited figures available on Scotland’s actual finances !!! Pure mince in other words !

    Funny how SNP commentators praised the LSE analysis that said "Brexit (15% of trade) will make Scotland poorer" but decry the analysis that says "Scexit (60% of trade) will make Scotland poorer". Cognitive dissonance, much?

    Equally funny how Tories decried all the analysis that showed the economic damage from Brexit - now inexorably coming to pass - yet think they can persuade the Scots with a similar stream of economic threats.
    Yes, Gove's line that it will be like Brexit but even worse is probably not what he should have said out loud.
    He's not wrong, though.
  • HYUFD said:

    ping said:

    HYUFD said:

    You will have to bring your own biro or pencil though, masks will be compulsory if voting in person and sanitiser will be on hand.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55938380
    There’s going to be a large % of ppl who don’t bring their own pencil.

    What happens then?
    They get sent home to fetch one if they still want to vote
    Ideal opportunity for an entrpreneur to sell overpriced pencils outside each polling station! But if sanitiser is compulsorily available, presumably it could be used to clean an official, emergency reserve pencil between absent-minded voters.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,208
    Morning. On topic -

    I've been oscillating on this between 2 equally strong poles:

    (1) People do not, they just don't, give up positions of great power voluntarily. Biden is old, sure, and not the most robust, but 81 is not a step change from 78, and assuming he can still do the job and has good numbers he will run again. Absurd that he isn't favourite. BACK HIM.

    (2) The guy is quite clearly not going to run for a 2nd term. It will take all of his reserves to manage a successful 1st given the challenges. A prime of life, mixed race woman of clear ability and charisma is teed up for 2024. That's Dem plan A and plan B is to go with whoever might be popular enough to beat her to the nom. Joe's a No. LAY HIM.

    A few days ago it resolved in my head - a lovely moment - and I'm now locked in with a strong intuition that I'm happy to start promoting and betting upon. As it happens it aligns with the header. It's (2).

    For WH24 openers I'm laying the grizzled troubadours who fought out WH20. Neither Joe Biden nor Donald Trump will be on the ballot next time.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,239
    Sandpit said:

    Quite a few Irish lorries off British roads:

    https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1357288850935197696?s=20

    Good news for British roads.
    I'm coming round to that view.

    How much traffic has it saved?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,220

    Self-driving cars.

    The very first thing the Government (any government) will do upon them being commercially available is ban any owner or driver from using them - even as a 100% passenger - whilst under the influence. There will be an incident sooner or later that's ambiguous on the face of it, even though it isn't, which will generate a tabloid headline, and that will be that.

    They will therefore kill off the main rationale for them for many people - i.e. as a personal taxi to support rural pubs and restaurants, and go out with friends.

    You're welcome.

    Legislation will follow technology.
    If Level 4 (which we might see by the middle of this decade), and then Level 5 are proven reliable, then I think you're simply wrong.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,239

    What is going on with the Scottish Crown Office? First Rangers, now this....

    https://twitter.com/ChrisMcEleny/status/1357464173152792578?s=20

    Is there any reason why he can't just publish it himself?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,113
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    What's he on about? They want to open schools in a month.
  • Whilst I agree Buttigieg is value (or certainly was at the odds I and others put him on) I'm (quite literally) taking the other side of your bets, guys. I thought 3 was excellent value when I first took it, and was astounded to get 3.85. And soon it was 3.95 bid although I've had enough for the mo...

    The thing about politicians is they love power (although they may use other terms such as "opportunity to make a difference"). Biden has been running to be president since the 90s. You think he ran again just to taste the top job before retirement? Well, maybe. But it doesn't ring true to me.

    The sole argument against Biden is his age. Well fine - but how old is the queen?

    Is it more likely than usual that he's going to run for one term? Yes. Better than evens? Nope.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Endillion said:

    Sandpit said:

    Endillion said:

    IanB2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Self-driving cars.

    The very first thing the Government (any government) will do upon them being commercially available is ban any owner or driver from using them - even as a 100% passenger - whilst under the influence. There will be an incident sooner or later that's ambiguous on the face of it, even though it isn't, which will generate a tabloid headline, and that will be that.

    They will therefore kill off the main rationale for them for many people - i.e. as a personal taxi to support rural pubs and restaurants, and go out with friends.

    You're welcome.

    It wouldn't require legislation; drunk in charge is already drunk in charge.
    But that is a lesser offence than the actual act of driving under the influence. Drunk in Charge , if I recall correctly, doesn’t have the mandatory 1year ban and can instead be punished with 11 penalty points. (Again this is from memory)

    So the question of how the law would define using a self driving car while pissed is still a legitimate one, surely?
    Anyone who thinks that being off your face in charge of a driverless car will be treated as anything other than the same as being off your face in a car they are driving, must be, er, off their face.
    The legal question will be whether you will actually have any control over it. If you don't, there's no problem. But more likely there'll be some emergency buttons to make it stop or swerve, which when drunk it might be tempting to have a play with....
    Another big problem there is that at some point, you'll have drivers on the road who learned to drive on automated vehicles and don't actually have any experience worth relying on. Teaching them sufficient awareness to know what to do in an emergency is likely to be extremely difficult.

    More generally, as others have said, automated vehicles are kind of an all-or-nothing deal. Fully automated with no human input is much simpler to implement than mostly automated. But it also means the tech has to be damn near perfect, which is an incredibly hard place to get to. Even if it could be proved to reduce accidents by (say) 50% on average, I think it would be very hard to get public opinion onside for it.
    This is already an issue for airline pilots, there’s plenty of accident reports that cite “Automation Dependency” as a factor - pilots who initially trained on highly automated modern planes, who struggle with basic flying skills under pressure of a failure of the automatics.
    It's also a wider societal issue - there is a lot of public mistrust in "algorithms" (some valid, some not) - not helped by things like the exam grades fiasco last summer. For a more nuanced example, see this recent decision by an Italian court that Deliveroo was inadvertently discriminating against some of its "contractors" via the algorithm used to assign jobs:
    https://cacm.acm.org/news/249760-court-rules-deliveroo-used-discriminatory-algorithm/fulltext

    If humans had been making those allocations, it would have been incredibly hard to prove that any specific incident constituted discrimination. But because the whole thing was handled by a computer, suddenly it's possible. So now they have to rewrite the whole thing every time someone comes up with a new bad outcome that they need to avoid.
    Interesting case, given that humans have been making this decisions in the same way for years. I was a bar manager 20 years ago, and always used to give priority for other shifts to those who worked Saturday night.

    There’s definitely some interesting regulatory issues coming up with these new technologies and ways of working - and sadly the attitude of most of the companies involved appears to be that they will do what they want, no matter how unethical, until they’re told to stop.
  • Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    Self-driving cars.

    The very first thing the Government (any government) will do upon them being commercially available is ban any owner or driver from using them - even as a 100% passenger - whilst under the influence. There will be an incident sooner or later that's ambiguous on the face of it, even though it isn't, which will generate a tabloid headline, and that will be that.

    They will therefore kill off the main rationale for them for many people - i.e. as a personal taxi to support rural pubs and restaurants, and go out with friends.

    You're welcome.

    The whole idea is to use SD cars as your personal taxi. It needs to take me to work, come back empty and pick up the kids and take them to school, take wife to lunch and bring her back, go empty to school to pick up the kids, take them home then pick me up from the pub next door from the office half an hour after happy hour finishes. Otherwise, what’s the point of it?
    Indeed.
    Now run the numbers on what that means for road usage. Sure, at off-peak some of those trips are possible, but you’ve at a minimum doubled road usage at peak times if the vehicle has to both drive to and from your place of work.

    IOW, this personal utopia is not going to be possible if everyone does it. The "electric car as personal taxi" is an idea without a future - it will work for a while whilst it’s expensive and only a few people can afford it, but will rapidly become unworkable. Halving the passenger transport capacity of the existing road network is not going to go down well.

    This self-driving car research groups know this perfectly well of course, that’s why internally the talk is all about either using them as mass taxi fleets, or (this was Tesla’s big idea at one point), letting you rent out your vehicle as a local taxi when you’re not using it. Google is trying the former; the latter seems unlikely to work to me; who wants to come back to their personal vehicle to find it full of someone else’s litter (or vomit...)?
    Its not going to double road usage since a lot of journeys will already be return, or the driver won't require the car to return without them.

    Plus what it can do is reduce strain on car parks, or make it easier to find a car park.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,914
    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    Better late than never.....

    https://twitter.com/nickgutteridge/status/1357619670224928769?s=20

    Wonder if we'll ever get to the bottom of the claim that it was a Member State that asked for Article 16 to be triggered?

    In six months time even the 1% of the population who knows what article 16 refers to will have moved on. By then we'll then be focusing on the aftermath. How each European state dealt with the crisis and how many deaths per million each country suffered.

    As this site is in the prediction business I would expect this to be the moment the clamour for Johnson's resignation began in earnest.
    You say that as if people are oblivious as to what the figures are at the moment. They are constantly talked about in the media.
    Of course they are but at the moment it's all a game of swings and roundabouts. They're nothing but minor details in the big picture which will become clear by early summer. The worst will be over and the body count will begin. The days of straw clutching will be over. It'll all be about how we ended with one of the worst death tolls in the world.
  • Endillion said:

    Sandpit said:

    Endillion said:

    IanB2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Self-driving cars.

    The very first thing the Government (any government) will do upon them being commercially available is ban any owner or driver from using them - even as a 100% passenger - whilst under the influence. There will be an incident sooner or later that's ambiguous on the face of it, even though it isn't, which will generate a tabloid headline, and that will be that.

    They will therefore kill off the main rationale for them for many people - i.e. as a personal taxi to support rural pubs and restaurants, and go out with friends.

    You're welcome.

    It wouldn't require legislation; drunk in charge is already drunk in charge.
    But that is a lesser offence than the actual act of driving under the influence. Drunk in Charge , if I recall correctly, doesn’t have the mandatory 1year ban and can instead be punished with 11 penalty points. (Again this is from memory)

    So the question of how the law would define using a self driving car while pissed is still a legitimate one, surely?
    Anyone who thinks that being off your face in charge of a driverless car will be treated as anything other than the same as being off your face in a car they are driving, must be, er, off their face.
    The legal question will be whether you will actually have any control over it. If you don't, there's no problem. But more likely there'll be some emergency buttons to make it stop or swerve, which when drunk it might be tempting to have a play with....
    Another big problem there is that at some point, you'll have drivers on the road who learned to drive on automated vehicles and don't actually have any experience worth relying on. Teaching them sufficient awareness to know what to do in an emergency is likely to be extremely difficult.

    More generally, as others have said, automated vehicles are kind of an all-or-nothing deal. Fully automated with no human input is much simpler to implement than mostly automated. But it also means the tech has to be damn near perfect, which is an incredibly hard place to get to. Even if it could be proved to reduce accidents by (say) 50% on average, I think it would be very hard to get public opinion onside for it.
    This is already an issue for airline pilots, there’s plenty of accident reports that cite “Automation Dependency” as a factor - pilots who initially trained on highly automated modern planes, who struggle with basic flying skills under pressure of a failure of the automatics.
    It's also a wider societal issue - there is a lot of public mistrust in "algorithms" (some valid, some not) - not helped by things like the exam grades fiasco last summer. For a more nuanced example, see this recent decision by an Italian court that Deliveroo was inadvertently discriminating against some of its "contractors" via the algorithm used to assign jobs:
    https://cacm.acm.org/news/249760-court-rules-deliveroo-used-discriminatory-algorithm/fulltext

    If humans had been making those allocations, it would have been incredibly hard to prove that any specific incident constituted discrimination. But because the whole thing was handled by a computer, suddenly it's possible. So now they have to rewrite the whole thing every time someone comes up with a new bad outcome that they need to avoid.
    I've been using Deliveroo a lot these past few weeks and while most of the time it does what it says on the tin, occasionally there is a half-hour wait for a driver to pick up the food, so perhaps the algorithm could do with more tuning (although more likely they need to recruit more drivers for busy periods).

    The trouble is you only know you are in for a long wait after you have been waiting. If the Deliveroo website gave an indication of how busy local drivers are, customers could make other arrangements (which probably is why they don't, come to think of it).
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    Roger said:

    RobD said:

    Roger said:

    Better late than never.....

    https://twitter.com/nickgutteridge/status/1357619670224928769?s=20

    Wonder if we'll ever get to the bottom of the claim that it was a Member State that asked for Article 16 to be triggered?

    In six months time even the 1% of the population who knows what article 16 refers to will have moved on. By then we'll then be focusing on the aftermath. How each European state dealt with the crisis and how many deaths per million each country suffered.

    As this site is in the prediction business I would expect this to be the moment the clamour for Johnson's resignation began in earnest.
    You say that as if people are oblivious as to what the figures are at the moment. They are constantly talked about in the media.
    Of course they are but at the moment it's all a game of swings and roundabouts. They're nothing but minor details in the big picture which will become clear by early summer. The worst will be over and the body count will begin. The days of straw clutching will be over. It'll all be about how we ended with one of the worst death tolls in the world.
    Minor details? Did you see the papers this week after it reached 100k?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598

    Dura_Ace said:

    Self-driving cars.

    The very first thing the Government (any government) will do upon them being commercially available is ban any owner or driver from using them - even as a 100% passenger - whilst under the influence. There will be an incident sooner or later that's ambiguous on the face of it, even though it isn't, which will generate a tabloid headline, and that will be that.

    They will therefore kill off the main rationale for them for many people - i.e. as a personal taxi to support rural pubs and restaurants, and go out with friends.

    You're welcome.

    In Level 5 automation the biological lifeforms have no means of requesting control of the vehicle so they can be as drunk as lords and it'll make no difference.
    In Level 6 the automation might refuse instructions from biological lifeforms to take them out on the piss, and monitor their weekly unit intake up to the level recommended by the CMO.
    Automation will lock the drinks section in the fridge until you are allowed more untis.

    And block your cards from ordering any more.

    Ditto, chocolate, biscuits - anything you aren't allowed except in exteme moderation.

    It's going to be a hellish life in this Golden Automated Age, isn't it?
  • I reflected this morning that I have not used cash for over six months

    It occurred to me that this must have a negative effect on tipping and paying by cash to avoid tax
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    Dura_Ace said:

    Self-driving cars.

    The very first thing the Government (any government) will do upon them being commercially available is ban any owner or driver from using them - even as a 100% passenger - whilst under the influence. There will be an incident sooner or later that's ambiguous on the face of it, even though it isn't, which will generate a tabloid headline, and that will be that.

    They will therefore kill off the main rationale for them for many people - i.e. as a personal taxi to support rural pubs and restaurants, and go out with friends.

    You're welcome.

    In Level 5 automation the biological lifeforms have no means of requesting control of the vehicle so they can be as drunk as lords and it'll make no difference.
    In Level 6 the automation might refuse instructions from biological lifeforms to take them out on the piss, and monitor their weekly unit intake up to the level recommended by the CMO.
    Automation will lock the drinks section in the fridge until you are allowed more untis.

    And block your cards from ordering any more.

    Ditto, chocolate, biscuits - anything you aren't allowed except in exteme moderation.

    It's going to be a hellish life in this Golden Automated Age, isn't it?
    Thank god pineapple pizzas are technically fruits.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    edited February 2021

    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    Self-driving cars.

    The very first thing the Government (any government) will do upon them being commercially available is ban any owner or driver from using them - even as a 100% passenger - whilst under the influence. There will be an incident sooner or later that's ambiguous on the face of it, even though it isn't, which will generate a tabloid headline, and that will be that.

    They will therefore kill off the main rationale for them for many people - i.e. as a personal taxi to support rural pubs and restaurants, and go out with friends.

    You're welcome.

    The whole idea is to use SD cars as your personal taxi. It needs to take me to work, come back empty and pick up the kids and take them to school, take wife to lunch and bring her back, go empty to school to pick up the kids, take them home then pick me up from the pub next door from the office half an hour after happy hour finishes. Otherwise, what’s the point of it?
    Indeed.
    Now run the numbers on what that means for road usage. Sure, at off-peak some of those trips are possible, but you’ve at a minimum doubled road usage at peak times if the vehicle has to both drive to and from your place of work.

    IOW, this personal utopia is not going to be possible if everyone does it. The "electric car as personal taxi" is an idea without a future - it will work for a while whilst it’s expensive and only a few people can afford it, but will rapidly become unworkable. Halving the passenger transport capacity of the existing road network is not going to go down well.

    This self-driving car research groups know this perfectly well of course, that’s why internally the talk is all about either using them as mass taxi fleets, or (this was Tesla’s big idea at one point), letting you rent out your vehicle as a local taxi when you’re not using it. Google is trying the former; the latter seems unlikely to work to me; who wants to come back to their personal vehicle to find it full of someone else’s litter (or vomit...)?
    Its not going to double road usage since a lot of journeys will already be return, or the driver won't require the car to return without them.

    Plus what it can do is reduce strain on car parks, or make it easier to find a car park.
    Using my hypothetical example of a daily use, it would replace two cars, and not need to park either at my work nor outside the cafe my wife goes for lunch.

    It would be really good for those who commute mostly by train, except for the operator of the station car park.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805

    Whilst I agree Buttigieg is value (or certainly was at the odds I and others put him on) I'm (quite literally) taking the other side of your bets, guys. I thought 3 was excellent value when I first took it, and was astounded to get 3.85. And soon it was 3.95 bid although I've had enough for the mo...

    The thing about politicians is they love power (although they may use other terms such as "opportunity to make a difference"). Biden has been running to be president since the 90s. You think he ran again just to taste the top job before retirement? Well, maybe. But it doesn't ring true to me.

    The sole argument against Biden is his age. Well fine - but how old is the queen?

    Is it more likely than usual that he's going to run for one term? Yes. Better than evens? Nope.

    Great post.

    I agree the current odds look like value. Should be evens or max 6/4
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    RobD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Self-driving cars.

    The very first thing the Government (any government) will do upon them being commercially available is ban any owner or driver from using them - even as a 100% passenger - whilst under the influence. There will be an incident sooner or later that's ambiguous on the face of it, even though it isn't, which will generate a tabloid headline, and that will be that.

    They will therefore kill off the main rationale for them for many people - i.e. as a personal taxi to support rural pubs and restaurants, and go out with friends.

    You're welcome.

    In Level 5 automation the biological lifeforms have no means of requesting control of the vehicle so they can be as drunk as lords and it'll make no difference.
    In Level 6 the automation might refuse instructions from biological lifeforms to take them out on the piss, and monitor their weekly unit intake up to the level recommended by the CMO.
    Automation will lock the drinks section in the fridge until you are allowed more untis.

    And block your cards from ordering any more.

    Ditto, chocolate, biscuits - anything you aren't allowed except in exteme moderation.

    It's going to be a hellish life in this Golden Automated Age, isn't it?
    Thank god pineapple pizzas are technically fruits.
    Do you think we'll get away with eating five a day?
  • HYUFD said:

    You will have to bring your own biro or pencil though, masks will be compulsory if voting in person and sanitiser will be on hand.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55938380
    Turnout is going to be very low.

    Bring your own biro is bollocks. The government should simply buy millions of disposable pencils.
    I'm not sure turnout will be very low. It will be an adventure going out and voting.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:


    This is already an issue for airline pilots, there’s plenty of accident reports that cite “Automation Dependency” as a factor - pilots who initially trained on highly automated modern planes, who struggle with basic flying skills under pressure of a failure of the automatics.

    The next generation of arrested carrier landings are going to be automated only via the appallingly named MAGIC CARPET technology.

    In an arrested landing the pilot typically makes over 80 control inputs in the last 20 seconds of the flight - we regularly did over 100 in the F-14. Achieving and maintaining that level of skill is very expensive so the computers are taking over. The next generation of USN trainers (T-7) isn't even going to be carrier capable.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314
    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT - Dysons are crap; a triumph of marketing over common sense. There's only one really good vacuum cleaner: a Henry.

    There's a reason why you always see professional cleaners with a Henry.

    I know. They are great. And I have one. But I also want a cordless one for a quick hoover rather than the full proper clean.

    My new soon-to-be home (God, Covid and the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse willing) is all hard floors and we have pets so want something that I can just whip out for a quick clean.
    I'd suggest a mop rather than a hoover.
    I have a brilliant one - from Lakeland. Mops then buffs up the floors.

    Thanks for all the tips.

    For the first time in my life I will have a proper - if small - utility room so have become a bit of an addict of websites like The Laundry Room and such like.

    I know. I ought to get a life. When lockdown ends .....
    We've just exchanged on our house just off Fortis Green and that's got a utility room, will be nice shunt the washing machine and all the cleaning junk into that rather than have it in the kitchen. We might even invest in a dryer at some point!
    I never had a dryer, being an enormous fan of proper old-fashioned washing lines in gardens. Absolutely brilliant, free and green.

    But in Cumbria - aieee! We have the wind. But also the rain. So unless you want to wear damp clothes or wait 3 weeks for your towels to dry a dryer is essential. I will still have a washing line as well. Pegging out clothes is wonderfully old-fashioned and reminds me of helping my mum out with this task as a child.

    Anyway I should have been a designer or at least an advisor to a designer. One of my bugbears is how badly designed so many things are - not in the sense of style but often because the objects are so bloody useless for the task for which they are built, which is surely the essence of good design.

    To give an example, I am sitting in my rented barn at a table which looks very nice but has a decorative groove all the way round about 2 inches in from the side. Which galumphing cretin thought this a good idea? All it means is that it collects crumbs. Which cannot be got out without hoovering the table. For crying out loud.

    Designers of household objects should hire me. If I - someone who is pretty much incapable of operating a front door key without help (the plaintive cry - "Oh God, why isn't this bloody thing working?! " - a sign for my children to rush to my aid before blood is spilt) can operate their wretched machines without me swearing or getting into a fight with them then any fool can.

    Honestly give me a big financial crisis to deal with and I am the calmest most efficient reassuring person around. An insubordinate inanimate object OTOH ......

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,462
    kinabalu said:

    Morning. On topic -

    I've been oscillating on this between 2 equally strong poles:

    (1) People do not, they just don't, give up positions of great power voluntarily. Biden is old, sure, and not the most robust, but 81 is not a step change from 78, and assuming he can still do the job and has good numbers he will run again. Absurd that he isn't favourite. BACK HIM.

    (2) The guy is quite clearly not going to run for a 2nd term. It will take all of his reserves to manage a successful 1st given the challenges. A prime of life, mixed race woman of clear ability and charisma is teed up for 2024. That's Dem plan A and plan B is to go with whoever might be popular enough to beat her to the nom. Joe's a No. LAY HIM.

    A few days ago it resolved in my head - a lovely moment - and I'm now locked in with a strong intuition that I'm happy to start promoting and betting upon. As it happens it aligns with the header. It's (2).

    For WH24 openers I'm laying the grizzled troubadours who fought out WH20. Neither Joe Biden nor Donald Trump will be on the ballot next time.

    Just a thought from your resident 82 year old.

    At 78, I was a lot more positive about my future, Just looked back through my diary for that year and most of the time I was very positive; much more than I am now at 82. And my wife says Seem to have aged somewhat in the last couple of years.

    In other words, while it looks as though I would have considered standing to election to something at 78 I wouldn't now.
    So, as far as Biden is concerned I agree with Mr K.
    Trump, of course, will likely be in the pokey, or deeply mired in financial troubles before very long.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    This is already an issue for airline pilots, there’s plenty of accident reports that cite “Automation Dependency” as a factor - pilots who initially trained on highly automated modern planes, who struggle with basic flying skills under pressure of a failure of the automatics.

    The next generation of arrested carrier landings are going to be automated only via the appallingly named MAGIC CARPET technology.

    In an arrested landing the pilot typically makes over 80 control inputs in the last 20 seconds of the flight - we regularly did over 100 in the F-14. Achieving and maintaining that level of skill is very expensive so the computers are taking over. The next generation of USN trainers (T-7) isn't even going to be carrier capable.
    So the pilots will become so rusty at this difficult manoeuvre, that a failure of the automatics results in a £100m bang-out?
  • Simon_PeachSimon_Peach Posts: 424
    edited February 2021
    Scott_xP said:
    Do we know whether this means jabbed once or jabbed twice? Given the report this morning that Greece, for example, will require both jabs before entry it may affect Granny’s chance of spending May in Mykonos.
  • RobD said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Self-driving cars.

    The very first thing the Government (any government) will do upon them being commercially available is ban any owner or driver from using them - even as a 100% passenger - whilst under the influence. There will be an incident sooner or later that's ambiguous on the face of it, even though it isn't, which will generate a tabloid headline, and that will be that.

    They will therefore kill off the main rationale for them for many people - i.e. as a personal taxi to support rural pubs and restaurants, and go out with friends.

    You're welcome.

    In Level 5 automation the biological lifeforms have no means of requesting control of the vehicle so they can be as drunk as lords and it'll make no difference.
    In Level 6 the automation might refuse instructions from biological lifeforms to take them out on the piss, and monitor their weekly unit intake up to the level recommended by the CMO.
    Automation will lock the drinks section in the fridge until you are allowed more untis.

    And block your cards from ordering any more.

    Ditto, chocolate, biscuits - anything you aren't allowed except in exteme moderation.

    It's going to be a hellish life in this Golden Automated Age, isn't it?
    Thank god pineapple pizzas are technically fruits.
    Plus tomato on the pizza, two fruits for the price of one.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    Scott_xP said:
    Do we know whether this means jabbed once or jabbed twice? Given the report this morning that Greece, for example, will require both jabs before entry it may affect Granny’s chance of spending May in Mykonos.
    Based on the current rate the priority groups will be done by the end of March. Maybe not enough time for a second jab, but certainly enough to build up some resistance.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Do we know whether this means jabbed once or jabbed twice? Given the report this morning that Greece, for example, will require both jabs before entry it may affect Granny’s chance of spending May in Mykonos.
    Pretty certain it means once, which would require an uptick in our current rate but achievable.

    Two doses would mean a very big increase.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,598
    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT - Dysons are crap; a triumph of marketing over common sense. There's only one really good vacuum cleaner: a Henry.

    There's a reason why you always see professional cleaners with a Henry.

    I know. They are great. And I have one. But I also want a cordless one for a quick hoover rather than the full proper clean.

    My new soon-to-be home (God, Covid and the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse willing) is all hard floors and we have pets so want something that I can just whip out for a quick clean.
    I'd suggest a mop rather than a hoover.
    I have a brilliant one - from Lakeland. Mops then buffs up the floors.

    Thanks for all the tips.

    For the first time in my life I will have a proper - if small - utility room so have become a bit of an addict of websites like The Laundry Room and such like.

    I know. I ought to get a life. When lockdown ends .....
    We've just exchanged on our house just off Fortis Green and that's got a utility room, will be nice shunt the washing machine and all the cleaning junk into that rather than have it in the kitchen. We might even invest in a dryer at some point!
    I never had a dryer, being an enormous fan of proper old-fashioned washing lines in gardens. Absolutely brilliant, free and green.

    But in Cumbria - aieee! We have the wind. But also the rain. So unless you want to wear damp clothes or wait 3 weeks for your towels to dry a dryer is essential. I will still have a washing line as well. Pegging out clothes is wonderfully old-fashioned and reminds me of helping my mum out with this task as a child.

    Anyway I should have been a designer or at least an advisor to a designer. One of my bugbears is how badly designed so many things are - not in the sense of style but often because the objects are so bloody useless for the task for which they are built, which is surely the essence of good design.

    To give an example, I am sitting in my rented barn at a table which looks very nice but has a decorative groove all the way round about 2 inches in from the side. Which galumphing cretin thought this a good idea? All it means is that it collects crumbs. Which cannot be got out without hoovering the table. For crying out loud.

    Designers of household objects should hire me. If I - someone who is pretty much incapable of operating a front door key without help (the plaintive cry - "Oh God, why isn't this bloody thing working?! " - a sign for my children to rush to my aid before blood is spilt) can operate their wretched machines without me swearing or getting into a fight with them then any fool can.

    Honestly give me a big financial crisis to deal with and I am the calmest most efficient reassuring person around. An insubordinate inanimate object OTOH ......

    I think I see the problem. "insubordinate". Oh dear.

    These inanimate appliances already talk to each other you know. And they scheme, on how to make your life hell...
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    This is already an issue for airline pilots, there’s plenty of accident reports that cite “Automation Dependency” as a factor - pilots who initially trained on highly automated modern planes, who struggle with basic flying skills under pressure of a failure of the automatics.

    The next generation of arrested carrier landings are going to be automated only via the appallingly named MAGIC CARPET technology.

    In an arrested landing the pilot typically makes over 80 control inputs in the last 20 seconds of the flight - we regularly did over 100 in the F-14. Achieving and maintaining that level of skill is very expensive so the computers are taking over. The next generation of USN trainers (T-7) isn't even going to be carrier capable.
    So the pilots will become so rusty at this difficult manoeuvre, that a failure of the automatics results in a £100m bang-out?
    Isn't this why Capt Sully was able to bring the plane down in the Hudson - because he had been trained as a glider pilot as well and so had the skills?

  • Whilst I agree Buttigieg is value (or certainly was at the odds I and others put him on) I'm (quite literally) taking the other side of your bets, guys. I thought 3 was excellent value when I first took it, and was astounded to get 3.85. And soon it was 3.95 bid although I've had enough for the mo...

    The thing about politicians is they love power (although they may use other terms such as "opportunity to make a difference"). Biden has been running to be president since the 90s. You think he ran again just to taste the top job before retirement? Well, maybe. But it doesn't ring true to me.

    The sole argument against Biden is his age. Well fine - but how old is the queen?

    Is it more likely than usual that he's going to run for one term? Yes. Better than evens? Nope.

    This will be a controversial view, but he might be needed as the only one who can beat Trump!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314

    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT - Dysons are crap; a triumph of marketing over common sense. There's only one really good vacuum cleaner: a Henry.

    There's a reason why you always see professional cleaners with a Henry.

    I know. They are great. And I have one. But I also want a cordless one for a quick hoover rather than the full proper clean.

    My new soon-to-be home (God, Covid and the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse willing) is all hard floors and we have pets so want something that I can just whip out for a quick clean.
    I'd suggest a mop rather than a hoover.
    I have a brilliant one - from Lakeland. Mops then buffs up the floors.

    Thanks for all the tips.

    For the first time in my life I will have a proper - if small - utility room so have become a bit of an addict of websites like The Laundry Room and such like.

    I know. I ought to get a life. When lockdown ends .....
    We've just exchanged on our house just off Fortis Green and that's got a utility room, will be nice shunt the washing machine and all the cleaning junk into that rather than have it in the kitchen. We might even invest in a dryer at some point!
    I never had a dryer, being an enormous fan of proper old-fashioned washing lines in gardens. Absolutely brilliant, free and green.

    But in Cumbria - aieee! We have the wind. But also the rain. So unless you want to wear damp clothes or wait 3 weeks for your towels to dry a dryer is essential. I will still have a washing line as well. Pegging out clothes is wonderfully old-fashioned and reminds me of helping my mum out with this task as a child.

    Anyway I should have been a designer or at least an advisor to a designer. One of my bugbears is how badly designed so many things are - not in the sense of style but often because the objects are so bloody useless for the task for which they are built, which is surely the essence of good design.

    To give an example, I am sitting in my rented barn at a table which looks very nice but has a decorative groove all the way round about 2 inches in from the side. Which galumphing cretin thought this a good idea? All it means is that it collects crumbs. Which cannot be got out without hoovering the table. For crying out loud.

    Designers of household objects should hire me. If I - someone who is pretty much incapable of operating a front door key without help (the plaintive cry - "Oh God, why isn't this bloody thing working?! " - a sign for my children to rush to my aid before blood is spilt) can operate their wretched machines without me swearing or getting into a fight with them then any fool can.

    Honestly give me a big financial crisis to deal with and I am the calmest most efficient reassuring person around. An insubordinate inanimate object OTOH ......

    I think I see the problem. "insubordinate". Oh dear.

    These inanimate appliances already talk to each other you know. And they scheme, on how to make your life hell...
    I know. The bastards .......
  • EndillionEndillion Posts: 4,976
    Sandpit said:

    IanB2 said:

    TOPPING said:

    IshmaelZ said:

    Self-driving cars.

    The very first thing the Government (any government) will do upon them being commercially available is ban any owner or driver from using them - even as a 100% passenger - whilst under the influence. There will be an incident sooner or later that's ambiguous on the face of it, even though it isn't, which will generate a tabloid headline, and that will be that.

    They will therefore kill off the main rationale for them for many people - i.e. as a personal taxi to support rural pubs and restaurants, and go out with friends.

    You're welcome.

    It wouldn't require legislation; drunk in charge is already drunk in charge.
    But that is a lesser offence than the actual act of driving under the influence. Drunk in Charge , if I recall correctly, doesn’t have the mandatory 1year ban and can instead be punished with 11 penalty points. (Again this is from memory)

    So the question of how the law would define using a self driving car while pissed is still a legitimate one, surely?
    Anyone who thinks that being off your face in charge of a driverless car will be treated as anything other than the same as being off your face in a car they are driving, must be, er, off their face.
    The legal question will be whether you will actually have any control over it. If you don't, there's no problem. But more likely there'll be some emergency buttons to make it stop or swerve, which when drunk it might be tempting to have a play with....
    A study of the issues around liability and insurance for SD cars, would definitely make for a good PhD thesis.

    All governments are going to have to deal with this in the coming years, and they either need to get ahead of the curve or have the industry write their own rules.
    Industry (specifically the insurance industry) will figure it out. Indeed, is already doing so. Figuring out liability where 2 or more self driving cars are involved should be relatively straightforward since you can just review the log. One or more human drivers involved complicates things a bit, but you can probably just start by assuming it's the human's fault and work from there. Costs are likely to go through the roof since the cars will be extremely expensive to repair, but the policy admin and claims handling should be much easier.

    It's not actually that hard, since the most likely outcome is that insurance is provided on a group basis by the manufacturer, so we can use Public Liability policies for large pharma/chemical companies as a model. Frankly, the UK motor insurance market is so dysfunctional at the moment, it'll probably be an improvement.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    Dura_Ace said:

    Self-driving cars.

    The very first thing the Government (any government) will do upon them being commercially available is ban any owner or driver from using them - even as a 100% passenger - whilst under the influence. There will be an incident sooner or later that's ambiguous on the face of it, even though it isn't, which will generate a tabloid headline, and that will be that.

    They will therefore kill off the main rationale for them for many people - i.e. as a personal taxi to support rural pubs and restaurants, and go out with friends.

    You're welcome.

    In Level 5 automation the biological lifeforms have no means of requesting control of the vehicle so they can be as drunk as lords and it'll make no difference.
    In Level 6 the automation might refuse instructions from biological lifeforms to take them out on the piss, and monitor their weekly unit intake up to the level recommended by the CMO.
    Automation will lock the drinks section in the fridge until you are allowed more untis.

    And block your cards from ordering any more.

    Ditto, chocolate, biscuits - anything you aren't allowed except in exteme moderation.

    It's going to be a hellish life in this Golden Automated Age, isn't it?
    Will we live longer or will it simply feel like it? That's really the question.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    This is already an issue for airline pilots, there’s plenty of accident reports that cite “Automation Dependency” as a factor - pilots who initially trained on highly automated modern planes, who struggle with basic flying skills under pressure of a failure of the automatics.

    The next generation of arrested carrier landings are going to be automated only via the appallingly named MAGIC CARPET technology.

    In an arrested landing the pilot typically makes over 80 control inputs in the last 20 seconds of the flight - we regularly did over 100 in the F-14. Achieving and maintaining that level of skill is very expensive so the computers are taking over. The next generation of USN trainers (T-7) isn't even going to be carrier capable.
    So the pilots will become so rusty at this difficult manoeuvre, that a failure of the automatics results in a £100m bang-out?
    Isn't this why Capt Sully was able to bring the plane down in the Hudson - because he had been trained as a glider pilot as well and so had the skills?

    Yep! He was an old-school stick and rudder guy, and knew how to fly the plane when all the computers gave up on him.

    As part of the investigation, they set up a bunch of pilots in the simulator - and even when they knew what was going to happen, most of them crashed short of a runway. It was just about possible to get back to the runway they’d taken off from, with an extreme manoeuvre within a second or two of the bird strike. Sully’s instinct was to know that the runways he could see were out of range, and the best option he had left was the river.

    Maybe I’m biased, but IMHO glider pilots make the best pilots! :D
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,754
    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT - Dysons are crap; a triumph of marketing over common sense. There's only one really good vacuum cleaner: a Henry.

    There's a reason why you always see professional cleaners with a Henry.

    I know. They are great. And I have one. But I also want a cordless one for a quick hoover rather than the full proper clean.

    My new soon-to-be home (God, Covid and the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse willing) is all hard floors and we have pets so want something that I can just whip out for a quick clean.
    I'd suggest a mop rather than a hoover.
    I have a brilliant one - from Lakeland. Mops then buffs up the floors.

    Thanks for all the tips.

    For the first time in my life I will have a proper - if small - utility room so have become a bit of an addict of websites like The Laundry Room and such like.

    I know. I ought to get a life. When lockdown ends .....
    We've just exchanged on our house just off Fortis Green and that's got a utility room, will be nice shunt the washing machine and all the cleaning junk into that rather than have it in the kitchen. We might even invest in a dryer at some point!
    I never had a dryer, being an enormous fan of proper old-fashioned washing lines in gardens. Absolutely brilliant, free and green.

    But in Cumbria - aieee! We have the wind. But also the rain. So unless you want to wear damp clothes or wait 3 weeks for your towels to dry a dryer is essential. I will still have a washing line as well. Pegging out clothes is wonderfully old-fashioned and reminds me of helping my mum out with this task as a child.
    We use a line in summer. Can't beat the line-dried smell (unless the farmer is muck-spreading). In winter/rain, when we had a spare room we used a dehumidifier. Worked great, clothes dry in a day - or less - no problem, and could also dry all the things that you can't tumble. I'd happily go back to that if/when we have a suitable room again.

    Having lost our spare room due to arrival of another little person, we also went down the dryer route (heat pump model - takes longer but uses a lot less energy).

    (We've also found this year - first year of dryer and no dehumidifier in frequent use - that we've had some mould patches on walls for the first time, just surface condensation in some cold spots (100 year old house) but we never had them when we dried clothes with the dehumidifier. So now the dehumidifier gets an outing now and again anyway.)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    edited February 2021
    https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccination-trends

    We're outpacing the States for jabs, 10 million here is the equivalent of about 50 million there I think. They're on 35 million or so.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,314
    Anyway I shall stop contributing to the Good Housekeeping Corner of PB and go off to do some measuring. I need to design a mantelpiece for a fireplace which is off-centre in a wall. This involves managing the exacting requirements of the craftsman building it and Husband who wants symmetry where there is none.

    He is slowly getting through it - it is a v slow process though - some days he is ok and others not. And he is now refusing to measure his oxygen so as to avoid being sent to hospital, which he hates.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Do we know whether this means jabbed once or jabbed twice? Given the report this morning that Greece, for example, will require both jabs before entry it may affect Granny’s chance of spending May in Mykonos.
    Pretty certain it means once, which would require an uptick in our current rate but achievable.

    Two doses would mean a very big increase.
    Having flights to Athens for June, we are hanging on in hope (naive perhaps) that we will be able to go having had both jabs, being in the 60-65 group. Of course, it may be technically possible but worries about the importation of some new variant mean that we choose not to go anyway.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877

    I reflected this morning that I have not used cash for over six months

    It occurred to me that this must have a negative effect on tipping and paying by cash to avoid tax

    One of the big losers are the homeless due to this I suspect as I used to give to a girl when passing her on the way to the shop but not its card only I dont take money
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    edited February 2021
    Mrs T would smile at this story:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/05/experts-pile-pressure-on-boris-johnson-over-shocking-new-coalmine

    Pressure is growing on the government over its support for a new coalmine in Cumbria, as the UK prepares to host the most important UN climate summit since the Paris agreement was signed in 2015.

    Developing country experts, scientists, green campaigners and government advisers are increasingly concerned about the seeming contradiction of ministers backing the new mine – the UK’s first new deep coalmine in three decades, which will produce coking coal, mostly for export, until 2049 – while gathering support from world leaders for a fresh deal on the climate crisis.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    Scott_xP said:
    Do we know whether this means jabbed once or jabbed twice? Given the report this morning that Greece, for example, will require both jabs before entry it may affect Granny’s chance of spending May in Mykonos.
    Pretty certain it means once, which would require an uptick in our current rate but achievable.

    Two doses would mean a very big increase.
    Having flights to Athens for June, we are hanging on in hope (naive perhaps) that we will be able to go having had both jabs, being in the 60-65 group. Of course, it may be technically possible but worries about the importation of some new variant mean that we choose not to go anyway.
    You'll likely get two weeks in a hotel on your return for your troubles, vaccinated or not.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway I shall stop contributing to the Good Housekeeping Corner of PB and go off to do some measuring. I need to design a mantelpiece for a fireplace which is off-centre in a wall. This involves managing the exacting requirements of the craftsman building it and Husband who wants symmetry where there is none.

    He is slowly getting through it - it is a v slow process though - some days he is ok and others not. And he is now refusing to measure his oxygen so as to avoid being sent to hospital, which he hates.

    Long Covid is frightening. I hope he recovers swiftly and completely.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,550
    Those who have the energy to follow the Handforth P C saga but wish to give up the will to live would enjoy this:

    https://davidallengreen.com/2021/02/did-jackie-weaver-have-the-authority-the-law-and-policy-of-that-handforth-parish-council-meeting/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    DavidL said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Self-driving cars.

    The very first thing the Government (any government) will do upon them being commercially available is ban any owner or driver from using them - even as a 100% passenger - whilst under the influence. There will be an incident sooner or later that's ambiguous on the face of it, even though it isn't, which will generate a tabloid headline, and that will be that.

    They will therefore kill off the main rationale for them for many people - i.e. as a personal taxi to support rural pubs and restaurants, and go out with friends.

    You're welcome.

    In Level 5 automation the biological lifeforms have no means of requesting control of the vehicle so they can be as drunk as lords and it'll make no difference.
    In Level 6 the automation might refuse instructions from biological lifeforms to take them out on the piss, and monitor their weekly unit intake up to the level recommended by the CMO.
    Automation will lock the drinks section in the fridge until you are allowed more untis.

    And block your cards from ordering any more.

    Ditto, chocolate, biscuits - anything you aren't allowed except in exteme moderation.

    It's going to be a hellish life in this Golden Automated Age, isn't it?
    Will we live longer or will it simply feel like it? That's really the question.
    A recruit for the REd Army is being interviewed.

    Comrade Cadet, do you smoke?

    Yes.

    Do you know Comrade Lenin condemned smoking?

    Then I shall give it up.

    Do you drink?

    Yes.

    Do you know Comrade Lenin condemned drinking?

    If he condemned it, I shall give it up.

    Do you go with young women?

    Yes.

    Do you know Comrade Lenin condemned promiscuity?

    Then I shall stop.

    Are you willing to give your life for the Motherland?

    Of course. Who needs such a life?
  • Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    This is already an issue for airline pilots, there’s plenty of accident reports that cite “Automation Dependency” as a factor - pilots who initially trained on highly automated modern planes, who struggle with basic flying skills under pressure of a failure of the automatics.

    The next generation of arrested carrier landings are going to be automated only via the appallingly named MAGIC CARPET technology.

    In an arrested landing the pilot typically makes over 80 control inputs in the last 20 seconds of the flight - we regularly did over 100 in the F-14. Achieving and maintaining that level of skill is very expensive so the computers are taking over. The next generation of USN trainers (T-7) isn't even going to be carrier capable.
    So the pilots will become so rusty at this difficult manoeuvre, that a failure of the automatics results in a £100m bang-out?
    Isn't this why Capt Sully was able to bring the plane down in the Hudson - because he had been trained as a glider pilot as well and so had the skills?

    Yep! He was an old-school stick and rudder guy, and knew how to fly the plane when all the computers gave up on him.

    As part of the investigation, they set up a bunch of pilots in the simulator - and even when they knew what was going to happen, most of them crashed short of a runway. It was just about possible to get back to the runway they’d taken off from, with an extreme manoeuvre within a second or two of the bird strike. Sully’s instinct was to know that the runways he could see were out of range, and the best option he had left was the river.

    Maybe I’m biased, but IMHO glider pilots make the best pilots! :D
    I remember my PPL training when I had to land under (simulated) engine failure - I was never so glad to see the runway!
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599
    tlg86 said:

    Mrs T would smile at this story:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/05/experts-pile-pressure-on-boris-johnson-over-shocking-new-coalmine

    Pressure is growing on the government over its support for a new coalmine in Cumbria, as the UK prepares to host the most important UN climate summit since the Paris agreement was signed in 2015.

    Developing country experts, scientists, green campaigners and government advisers are increasingly concerned about the seeming contradiction of ministers backing the new mine – the UK’s first new deep coalmine in three decades, which will produce coking coal, mostly for export, until 2049 – while gathering support from world leaders for a fresh deal on the climate crisis.

    The Guardian would clearly prefer that we import the coal from some stinky plant out of sight in India or China, rather than produce it cleanly and efficiently at home.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,208
    edited February 2021

    kinabalu said:

    Morning. On topic -

    I've been oscillating on this between 2 equally strong poles:

    (1) People do not, they just don't, give up positions of great power voluntarily. Biden is old, sure, and not the most robust, but 81 is not a step change from 78, and assuming he can still do the job and has good numbers he will run again. Absurd that he isn't favourite. BACK HIM.

    (2) The guy is quite clearly not going to run for a 2nd term. It will take all of his reserves to manage a successful 1st given the challenges. A prime of life, mixed race woman of clear ability and charisma is teed up for 2024. That's Dem plan A and plan B is to go with whoever might be popular enough to beat her to the nom. Joe's a No. LAY HIM.

    A few days ago it resolved in my head - a lovely moment - and I'm now locked in with a strong intuition that I'm happy to start promoting and betting upon. As it happens it aligns with the header. It's (2).

    For WH24 openers I'm laying the grizzled troubadours who fought out WH20. Neither Joe Biden nor Donald Trump will be on the ballot next time.

    Just a thought from your resident 82 year old.

    At 78, I was a lot more positive about my future, Just looked back through my diary for that year and most of the time I was very positive; much more than I am now at 82. And my wife says Seem to have aged somewhat in the last couple of years.

    In other words, while it looks as though I would have considered standing to election to something at 78 I wouldn't now.
    So, as far as Biden is concerned I agree with Mr K.
    Trump, of course, will likely be in the pokey, or deeply mired in financial troubles before very long.
    I'm sorry my post triggered slightly bearish reflections for you, OKC.
    But, yes, this is how I see it. I will be very surprised indeed if Joe is up for 4 more years IN 4 years.
    And Trump at the current 6.5 for the GOP nomination is imo spectacularly short.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    edited February 2021
    MaxPB said:

    I think the government should hold off having any vaccine passports until the vast majority of over adults have been given both doses of vaccine.

    Young people have been asked to make great sacrifices for the last year so we didn't end up with half a million dead old people, if the oldies start getting back on their cruise ships at the first possible moment it would break the current social contract we have where we're all in it together.

    It also puts pressure on the government to keep up the pace of rollout and not to stand down once the over 50s are done as many people my age expect. We'll be thrown to the dogs and all of our vaccines will be given away when it's our turn.

    I think vaccine passports help keep up the pressure on the Gov't to get the U-50s jabbed actually. There does seem to be a bit of a worrying blind spot amongst certain media and the CRG that severe under 50 Covid cases don't occur. They can be very nasty indeed. I realise like you that I'm going to have to wait my turn for the vaccination but I do expect to get it and the program to keep running at full speed till all eligible and willing people are vaccinated.
    There's a concert in December we're provisionally looking at going to, that'd very much need a full release from lockdown.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,222
    Cyclefree said:

    Anyway I shall stop contributing to the Good Housekeeping Corner of PB and go off to do some measuring. I need to design a mantelpiece for a fireplace which is off-centre in a wall. This involves managing the exacting requirements of the craftsman building it and Husband who wants symmetry where there is none.

    He is slowly getting through it - it is a v slow process though - some days he is ok and others not. And he is now refusing to measure his oxygen so as to avoid being sent to hospital, which he hates.

    My window cleaner and his wife (in their 70s) both caught Covid in November. First time I`ve met anyone who has had it and actually been poorly with it. They had different symptoms but the common feature was sheer exhaustion for six weeks.

    They are both fully recovered now.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mrs T would smile at this story:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/05/experts-pile-pressure-on-boris-johnson-over-shocking-new-coalmine

    Pressure is growing on the government over its support for a new coalmine in Cumbria, as the UK prepares to host the most important UN climate summit since the Paris agreement was signed in 2015.

    Developing country experts, scientists, green campaigners and government advisers are increasingly concerned about the seeming contradiction of ministers backing the new mine – the UK’s first new deep coalmine in three decades, which will produce coking coal, mostly for export, until 2049 – while gathering support from world leaders for a fresh deal on the climate crisis.

    The Guardian would clearly prefer that we import the coal from some stinky plant out of sight in India or China, rather than produce it cleanly and efficiently at home.
    It's coking coal for steelworks. It should not be controversial in the slightest.
  • MaxPB said:

    I think the government should hold off having any vaccine passports until the vast majority of over adults have been given both doses of vaccine.

    Young people have been asked to make great sacrifices for the last year so we didn't end up with half a million dead old people, if the oldies start getting back on their cruise ships at the first possible moment it would break the current social contract we have where we're all in it together.

    It also puts pressure on the government to keep up the pace of rollout and not to stand down once the over 50s are done as many people my age expect. We'll be thrown to the dogs and all of our vaccines will be given away when it's our turn.

    Yep - there should be no "jollies for oldies" (among whom I count myself) until everyone who wants it has been done. In any case, many of the popular holiday destinations will likely still not have completed their roll out until the autumn, if they get a move on....
  • More pseudo-science.....

    BBC News - Covid vaccines 'extremely safe' finds UK regulator
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55946912
  • MaxPB said:

    I think the government should hold off having any vaccine passports until the vast majority of over adults have been given both doses of vaccine.

    Young people have been asked to make great sacrifices for the last year so we didn't end up with half a million dead old people, if the oldies start getting back on their cruise ships at the first possible moment it would break the current social contract we have where we're all in it together.

    It also puts pressure on the government to keep up the pace of rollout and not to stand down once the over 50s are done as many people my age expect. We'll be thrown to the dogs and all of our vaccines will be given away when it's our turn.

    The best solution is to have the vaccine passports straight away, so the technology is there, but to have mandatory hotel quarantine for all non-freight travellers (not "red zones") until vaccination of all adults is complete.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,823
    Sandpit said:

    Phil said:

    Sandpit said:

    Self-driving cars.

    The very first thing the Government (any government) will do upon them being commercially available is ban any owner or driver from using them - even as a 100% passenger - whilst under the influence. There will be an incident sooner or later that's ambiguous on the face of it, even though it isn't, which will generate a tabloid headline, and that will be that.

    They will therefore kill off the main rationale for them for many people - i.e. as a personal taxi to support rural pubs and restaurants, and go out with friends.

    You're welcome.

    The whole idea is to use SD cars as your personal taxi. It needs to take me to work, come back empty and pick up the kids and take them to school, take wife to lunch and bring her back, go empty to school to pick up the kids, take them home then pick me up from the pub next door from the office half an hour after happy hour finishes. Otherwise, what’s the point of it?
    Indeed.
    Now run the numbers on what that means for road usage. Sure, at off-peak some of those trips are possible, but you’ve at a minimum doubled road usage at peak times if the vehicle has to both drive to and from your place of work.

    IOW, this personal utopia is not going to be possible if everyone does it. The "electric car as personal taxi" is an idea without a future - it will work for a while whilst it’s expensive and only a few people can afford it, but will rapidly become unworkable. Halving the passenger transport capacity of the existing road network is not going to go down well.

    This self-driving car research groups know this perfectly well of course, that’s why internally the talk is all about either using them as mass taxi fleets, or (this was Tesla’s big idea at one point), letting you rent out your vehicle as a local taxi when you’re not using it. Google is trying the former; the latter seems unlikely to work to me; who wants to come back to their personal vehicle to find it full of someone else’s litter (or vomit...)?
    Its not going to double road usage since a lot of journeys will already be return, or the driver won't require the car to return without them.

    Plus what it can do is reduce strain on car parks, or make it easier to find a car park.
    Using my hypothetical example of a daily use, it would replace two cars, and not need to park either at my work nor outside the cafe my wife goes for lunch.

    It would be really good for those who commute mostly by train, except for the operator of the station car park.
    I've done quite a bit og work in this area.
    If autonomous vehicles come off - and this could be anywherr from 'within three years' to 'never' - then there's a lot of uncertainty about their role. But what's clear is that we don't have enough road space for us all to be using them to commute at the same time in urban areas. What they could be excellent for is shuttling people to high volume transit locations - i. e. taking you the mile and a half from your house to the station, then going away and not having to park at the station. Of course, commuting as we know it could be a thing of the past by then!
    Where autonomous vehicles have really exciting - for me - potential is the change to streetscape - no need for on-street parking, no need for drives - we can make much more attractivr urban environments.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    edited February 2021
    Pagan2 said:

    I reflected this morning that I have not used cash for over six months

    It occurred to me that this must have a negative effect on tipping and paying by cash to avoid tax

    One of the big losers are the homeless due to this I suspect as I used to give to a girl when passing her on the way to the shop but not its card only I dont take money
    Great point. Have you considered buying her a sandwich or a pie or something instead?
    Although that doesn't help with hostel fees.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mrs T would smile at this story:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/05/experts-pile-pressure-on-boris-johnson-over-shocking-new-coalmine

    Pressure is growing on the government over its support for a new coalmine in Cumbria, as the UK prepares to host the most important UN climate summit since the Paris agreement was signed in 2015.

    Developing country experts, scientists, green campaigners and government advisers are increasingly concerned about the seeming contradiction of ministers backing the new mine – the UK’s first new deep coalmine in three decades, which will produce coking coal, mostly for export, until 2049 – while gathering support from world leaders for a fresh deal on the climate crisis.

    The Guardian would clearly prefer that we import the coal from some stinky plant out of sight in India or China, rather than produce it cleanly and efficiently at home.
    It's coking coal for steelworks. It should not be controversial in the slightest.
    HS2 is designed to take traffic off the roads and put it on a railway powered by renewable energy. It should not be controversial in the slightest (at least from an environmental point of view).

    Yet a random nutter actually shut Euston Station the other day climbing on the roof to protest about it.
  • Fantastic double-century partnership with a real captain's innings so far from Root. Very goot strike rate so far for him too.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mrs T would smile at this story:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/05/experts-pile-pressure-on-boris-johnson-over-shocking-new-coalmine

    Pressure is growing on the government over its support for a new coalmine in Cumbria, as the UK prepares to host the most important UN climate summit since the Paris agreement was signed in 2015.

    Developing country experts, scientists, green campaigners and government advisers are increasingly concerned about the seeming contradiction of ministers backing the new mine – the UK’s first new deep coalmine in three decades, which will produce coking coal, mostly for export, until 2049 – while gathering support from world leaders for a fresh deal on the climate crisis.

    The Guardian would clearly prefer that we import the coal from some stinky plant out of sight in India or China, rather than produce it cleanly and efficiently at home.
    Do you remember the successful protest against the ship breaking scheme - which port was it at?

    So the ships are still being broken up on an Indian beach....
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mrs T would smile at this story:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/05/experts-pile-pressure-on-boris-johnson-over-shocking-new-coalmine

    Pressure is growing on the government over its support for a new coalmine in Cumbria, as the UK prepares to host the most important UN climate summit since the Paris agreement was signed in 2015.

    Developing country experts, scientists, green campaigners and government advisers are increasingly concerned about the seeming contradiction of ministers backing the new mine – the UK’s first new deep coalmine in three decades, which will produce coking coal, mostly for export, until 2049 – while gathering support from world leaders for a fresh deal on the climate crisis.

    The Guardian would clearly prefer that we import the coal from some stinky plant out of sight in India or China, rather than produce it cleanly and efficiently at home.
    It's coking coal for steelworks. It should not be controversial in the slightest.
    HS2 is designed to take traffic off the roads and put it on a railway powered by renewable energy. It should not be controversial in the slightest (at least from an environmental point of view).

    Yet a random nutter actually shut Euston Station the other day climbing on the roof to protest about it.
    Is HS2 actually going to generate the electricity itself? If not, we'd be better off not wasting the green energy.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    The vaccination program is steaming ahead in Israel but so are the mass gatherings...

    No chance all this lot are vaccinated !

    https://www.israel365news.com/164959/large-haredi-funeral-processions-in-jerusalem-hit-raw-nerve-after-recent-violent-clashes/
    ~
    Their atheist and reform brethren must despair.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    dixiedean said:

    Pagan2 said:

    I reflected this morning that I have not used cash for over six months

    It occurred to me that this must have a negative effect on tipping and paying by cash to avoid tax

    One of the big losers are the homeless due to this I suspect as I used to give to a girl when passing her on the way to the shop but not its card only I dont take money
    Great point. Have you considered buying her a sandwich or a pie or something instead?
    Thats what I currently do as she is normally beside the takeaway I goto so I buy an extra lamb kofta and let her use my shower and washing machine a couple of times a week
  • IshmaelZIshmaelZ Posts: 21,830

    More pseudo-science.....

    BBC News - Covid vaccines 'extremely safe' finds UK regulator
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55946912

    You keep identifying pseudo-science, without exposition and with links to sources in which there is no hint of it. If you could show us your workings we could help you with where you are going wrong. In the mean time, the presumption that the MHRA practises real science is not irrebuttable, but it's pretty strong.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,599

    Sandpit said:

    Cyclefree said:

    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    This is already an issue for airline pilots, there’s plenty of accident reports that cite “Automation Dependency” as a factor - pilots who initially trained on highly automated modern planes, who struggle with basic flying skills under pressure of a failure of the automatics.

    The next generation of arrested carrier landings are going to be automated only via the appallingly named MAGIC CARPET technology.

    In an arrested landing the pilot typically makes over 80 control inputs in the last 20 seconds of the flight - we regularly did over 100 in the F-14. Achieving and maintaining that level of skill is very expensive so the computers are taking over. The next generation of USN trainers (T-7) isn't even going to be carrier capable.
    So the pilots will become so rusty at this difficult manoeuvre, that a failure of the automatics results in a £100m bang-out?
    Isn't this why Capt Sully was able to bring the plane down in the Hudson - because he had been trained as a glider pilot as well and so had the skills?

    Yep! He was an old-school stick and rudder guy, and knew how to fly the plane when all the computers gave up on him.

    As part of the investigation, they set up a bunch of pilots in the simulator - and even when they knew what was going to happen, most of them crashed short of a runway. It was just about possible to get back to the runway they’d taken off from, with an extreme manoeuvre within a second or two of the bird strike. Sully’s instinct was to know that the runways he could see were out of range, and the best option he had left was the river.

    Maybe I’m biased, but IMHO glider pilots make the best pilots! :D
    I remember my PPL training when I had to land under (simulated) engine failure - I was never so glad to see the runway!
    They come down quicker than you think they will, don’t they? ;)

    I used to have a t-shirt “Glider pilots do it in random fields”. Part of the fun of being a club member was the occasional rescue of someone who pushed too hard and didn’t make it back to the airfield. Used to get a free dinner and some beers for it, which as a young student trying to save his pennies was great. Competitions were good too, where a pilot would cover your expenses for a week for the inevitable “landing-out”.

    How Sully looked at the picture in front of him, with at least two airports visible, and still chose the river, was some feat of airmanship. I think almost all of us would have tried to squeak back to a piece of tarmac.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:


    This is already an issue for airline pilots, there’s plenty of accident reports that cite “Automation Dependency” as a factor - pilots who initially trained on highly automated modern planes, who struggle with basic flying skills under pressure of a failure of the automatics.

    The next generation of arrested carrier landings are going to be automated only via the appallingly named MAGIC CARPET technology.

    In an arrested landing the pilot typically makes over 80 control inputs in the last 20 seconds of the flight - we regularly did over 100 in the F-14. Achieving and maintaining that level of skill is very expensive so the computers are taking over. The next generation of USN trainers (T-7) isn't even going to be carrier capable.
    So the pilots will become so rusty at this difficult manoeuvre, that a failure of the automatics results in a £100m bang-out?
    Well if the current FCS fails and the jet reverts to hyds you're not landing it anyway! There's a couple of Hornets at the bottom of the Pacific to testify to that.

    Carrier quals phase of training alone (9 day landings, 6 night) costs > $2m per pilot and the USN have to dedicate a CVN to that task so they'll take the automated solution if it works.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    IshmaelZ said:

    More pseudo-science.....

    BBC News - Covid vaccines 'extremely safe' finds UK regulator
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55946912

    You keep identifying pseudo-science, without exposition and with links to sources in which there is no hint of it. If you could show us your workings we could help you with where you are going wrong. In the mean time, the presumption that the MHRA practises real science is not irrebuttable, but it's pretty strong.
    Either I don't understand sarcasm, or you don't. :D
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Fantastic double-century partnership with a real captain's innings so far from Root. Very goot strike rate so far for him too.

    Imagine how many he'd score with a proper technique @FrancisUrquhart

    But it's enormously impressive how fast he's adapted to subcontinental conditions. The big stride in, soft hands, guiding the ball with the spin. This is a good attack. To take everything they throw at him for 90 overs in just his third match in the subcontinent is a very fine achievement.

    Even though he has given it away in the last over, which is a bit of a shame, he's done his job.
  • RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Do we know whether this means jabbed once or jabbed twice? Given the report this morning that Greece, for example, will require both jabs before entry it may affect Granny’s chance of spending May in Mykonos.
    Pretty certain it means once, which would require an uptick in our current rate but achievable.

    Two doses would mean a very big increase.
    Having flights to Athens for June, we are hanging on in hope (naive perhaps) that we will be able to go having had both jabs, being in the 60-65 group. Of course, it may be technically possible but worries about the importation of some new variant mean that we choose not to go anyway.
    You'll likely get two weeks in a hotel on your return for your troubles, vaccinated or not.
    And at your cost
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,550
    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mrs T would smile at this story:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/05/experts-pile-pressure-on-boris-johnson-over-shocking-new-coalmine

    Pressure is growing on the government over its support for a new coalmine in Cumbria, as the UK prepares to host the most important UN climate summit since the Paris agreement was signed in 2015.

    Developing country experts, scientists, green campaigners and government advisers are increasingly concerned about the seeming contradiction of ministers backing the new mine – the UK’s first new deep coalmine in three decades, which will produce coking coal, mostly for export, until 2049 – while gathering support from world leaders for a fresh deal on the climate crisis.

    The Guardian would clearly prefer that we import the coal from some stinky plant out of sight in India or China, rather than produce it cleanly and efficiently at home.
    It's coking coal for steelworks. It should not be controversial in the slightest.
    Agree. The Guardian's simplistic logic at work.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mrs T would smile at this story:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/05/experts-pile-pressure-on-boris-johnson-over-shocking-new-coalmine

    Pressure is growing on the government over its support for a new coalmine in Cumbria, as the UK prepares to host the most important UN climate summit since the Paris agreement was signed in 2015.

    Developing country experts, scientists, green campaigners and government advisers are increasingly concerned about the seeming contradiction of ministers backing the new mine – the UK’s first new deep coalmine in three decades, which will produce coking coal, mostly for export, until 2049 – while gathering support from world leaders for a fresh deal on the climate crisis.

    The Guardian would clearly prefer that we import the coal from some stinky plant out of sight in India or China, rather than produce it cleanly and efficiently at home.
    It's coking coal for steelworks. It should not be controversial in the slightest.
    HS2 is designed to take traffic off the roads and put it on a railway powered by renewable energy. It should not be controversial in the slightest (at least from an environmental point of view).

    Yet a random nutter actually shut Euston Station the other day climbing on the roof to protest about it.
    Is HS2 actually going to generate the electricity itself? If not, we'd be better off not wasting the green energy.
    So, we'd be better off environmentally continuing to import 55 million barrels of oil a year to power aircraft, cars and lorries?

    (Yes, cars may go electric within a few years of HS2 opening. The other two won't.)
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    Fantastic double-century partnership with a real captain's innings so far from Root. Very goot strike rate so far for him too.

    Sibley has done well, despite now being out, but to bat an entire day for 87 runs...It's pretty grim stuff. He needs to find a few more scoring shots.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,877
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mrs T would smile at this story:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/05/experts-pile-pressure-on-boris-johnson-over-shocking-new-coalmine

    Pressure is growing on the government over its support for a new coalmine in Cumbria, as the UK prepares to host the most important UN climate summit since the Paris agreement was signed in 2015.

    Developing country experts, scientists, green campaigners and government advisers are increasingly concerned about the seeming contradiction of ministers backing the new mine – the UK’s first new deep coalmine in three decades, which will produce coking coal, mostly for export, until 2049 – while gathering support from world leaders for a fresh deal on the climate crisis.

    The Guardian would clearly prefer that we import the coal from some stinky plant out of sight in India or China, rather than produce it cleanly and efficiently at home.
    It's coking coal for steelworks. It should not be controversial in the slightest.
    HS2 is designed to take traffic off the roads and put it on a railway powered by renewable energy. It should not be controversial in the slightest (at least from an environmental point of view).

    Yet a random nutter actually shut Euston Station the other day climbing on the roof to protest about it.
    Is HS2 actually going to generate the electricity itself? If not, we'd be better off not wasting the green energy.
    So, we'd be better off environmentally continuing to import 55 million barrels of oil a year to power aircraft, cars and lorries?

    (Yes, cars may go electric within a few years of HS2 opening. The other two won't.)
    you are assuming travel patterns will revert once the pandemic is over. Personally I wonder if HS2 isnt going to be a white elephant
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,208
    edited February 2021
    Cyclefree said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree said:

    MaxPB said:

    Cyclefree said:

    FPT - Dysons are crap; a triumph of marketing over common sense. There's only one really good vacuum cleaner: a Henry.

    There's a reason why you always see professional cleaners with a Henry.

    I know. They are great. And I have one. But I also want a cordless one for a quick hoover rather than the full proper clean.

    My new soon-to-be home (God, Covid and the 4 Horsemen of the Apocalypse willing) is all hard floors and we have pets so want something that I can just whip out for a quick clean.
    I'd suggest a mop rather than a hoover.
    I have a brilliant one - from Lakeland. Mops then buffs up the floors.

    Thanks for all the tips.

    For the first time in my life I will have a proper - if small - utility room so have become a bit of an addict of websites like The Laundry Room and such like.

    I know. I ought to get a life. When lockdown ends .....
    We've just exchanged on our house just off Fortis Green and that's got a utility room, will be nice shunt the washing machine and all the cleaning junk into that rather than have it in the kitchen. We might even invest in a dryer at some point!
    I never had a dryer, being an enormous fan of proper old-fashioned washing lines in gardens. Absolutely brilliant, free and green.

    But in Cumbria - aieee! We have the wind. But also the rain. So unless you want to wear damp clothes or wait 3 weeks for your towels to dry a dryer is essential. I will still have a washing line as well. Pegging out clothes is wonderfully old-fashioned and reminds me of helping my mum out with this task as a child.

    Anyway I should have been a designer or at least an advisor to a designer. One of my bugbears is how badly designed so many things are - not in the sense of style but often because the objects are so bloody useless for the task for which they are built, which is surely the essence of good design.

    To give an example, I am sitting in my rented barn at a table which looks very nice but has a decorative groove all the way round about 2 inches in from the side. Which galumphing cretin thought this a good idea? All it means is that it collects crumbs. Which cannot be got out without hoovering the table. For crying out loud.

    Designers of household objects should hire me. If I - someone who is pretty much incapable of operating a front door key without help (the plaintive cry - "Oh God, why isn't this bloody thing working?! " - a sign for my children to rush to my aid before blood is spilt) can operate their wretched machines without me swearing or getting into a fight with them then any fool can.

    Honestly give me a big financial crisis to deal with and I am the calmest most efficient reassuring person around. An insubordinate inanimate object OTOH ......

    I think I see the problem. "insubordinate". Oh dear.

    These inanimate appliances already talk to each other you know. And they scheme, on how to make your life hell...
    I know. The bastards .......
    My main beef with design is when things are needlessly "busy" and convoluted. Some people, or some blokes rather, eg my brother, are the opposite. Like, he has a coffee maker whose operating protocols to generate a cup of the eponymous are akin to launching the Space Shuttle, and he loves it. The complexity, how each step takes technical nous and must be accomplished in exactly the right order, he's in his element. Me, it's the last thing I want to be faced with in the bleary eyed morning. Kettle and instant please. But the worst are microwaves. Those ridiculous arrays of dials and buttons with symbols of a chicken or a pig all over the place. All you actually need is a timer and an ON/OFF button. I managed to find one like that and it's a treasured possession.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,357
    edited February 2021
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Morning. On topic -

    I've been oscillating on this between 2 equally strong poles:

    (1) People do not, they just don't, give up positions of great power voluntarily. Biden is old, sure, and not the most robust, but 81 is not a step change from 78, and assuming he can still do the job and has good numbers he will run again. Absurd that he isn't favourite. BACK HIM.

    (2) The guy is quite clearly not going to run for a 2nd term. It will take all of his reserves to manage a successful 1st given the challenges. A prime of life, mixed race woman of clear ability and charisma is teed up for 2024. That's Dem plan A and plan B is to go with whoever might be popular enough to beat her to the nom. Joe's a No. LAY HIM.

    A few days ago it resolved in my head - a lovely moment - and I'm now locked in with a strong intuition that I'm happy to start promoting and betting upon. As it happens it aligns with the header. It's (2).

    For WH24 openers I'm laying the grizzled troubadours who fought out WH20. Neither Joe Biden nor Donald Trump will be on the ballot next time.

    Just a thought from your resident 82 year old.

    At 78, I was a lot more positive about my future, Just looked back through my diary for that year and most of the time I was very positive; much more than I am now at 82. And my wife says Seem to have aged somewhat in the last couple of years.

    In other words, while it looks as though I would have considered standing to election to something at 78 I wouldn't now.
    So, as far as Biden is concerned I agree with Mr K.
    Trump, of course, will likely be in the pokey, or deeply mired in financial troubles before very long.
    I'm sorry my post triggered slightly bearish reflections for you, OKC.
    But, yes, this is how I see it. I will be very surprised indeed if Joe is up for 4 more years IN 4 years.
    And Trump at the current 6.5 for the GOP nomination is imo spectacularly short.
    Googling around - https://www.boredpanda.com/presidents-before-after-term-united-states/

    This one stands out

    image
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Scott_xP said:
    Ouch.

    'The pursuer failed the sufficient interest test. He was a busybody.' (p.9)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Pagan2 said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mrs T would smile at this story:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/05/experts-pile-pressure-on-boris-johnson-over-shocking-new-coalmine

    Pressure is growing on the government over its support for a new coalmine in Cumbria, as the UK prepares to host the most important UN climate summit since the Paris agreement was signed in 2015.

    Developing country experts, scientists, green campaigners and government advisers are increasingly concerned about the seeming contradiction of ministers backing the new mine – the UK’s first new deep coalmine in three decades, which will produce coking coal, mostly for export, until 2049 – while gathering support from world leaders for a fresh deal on the climate crisis.

    The Guardian would clearly prefer that we import the coal from some stinky plant out of sight in India or China, rather than produce it cleanly and efficiently at home.
    It's coking coal for steelworks. It should not be controversial in the slightest.
    HS2 is designed to take traffic off the roads and put it on a railway powered by renewable energy. It should not be controversial in the slightest (at least from an environmental point of view).

    Yet a random nutter actually shut Euston Station the other day climbing on the roof to protest about it.
    Is HS2 actually going to generate the electricity itself? If not, we'd be better off not wasting the green energy.
    So, we'd be better off environmentally continuing to import 55 million barrels of oil a year to power aircraft, cars and lorries?

    (Yes, cars may go electric within a few years of HS2 opening. The other two won't.)
    you are assuming travel patterns will revert once the pandemic is over. Personally I wonder if HS2 isnt going to be a white elephant
    Stand on Rugeley Trent Valley for an hour at peak times and I think you will stop wondering. Even if express traffic declines slightly - which I don't think it will, for lots of reasons - freight traffic is severely congested.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,176
    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mrs T would smile at this story:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/05/experts-pile-pressure-on-boris-johnson-over-shocking-new-coalmine

    Pressure is growing on the government over its support for a new coalmine in Cumbria, as the UK prepares to host the most important UN climate summit since the Paris agreement was signed in 2015.

    Developing country experts, scientists, green campaigners and government advisers are increasingly concerned about the seeming contradiction of ministers backing the new mine – the UK’s first new deep coalmine in three decades, which will produce coking coal, mostly for export, until 2049 – while gathering support from world leaders for a fresh deal on the climate crisis.

    The Guardian would clearly prefer that we import the coal from some stinky plant out of sight in India or China, rather than produce it cleanly and efficiently at home.
    It's coking coal for steelworks. It should not be controversial in the slightest.
    HS2 is designed to take traffic off the roads and put it on a railway powered by renewable energy. It should not be controversial in the slightest (at least from an environmental point of view).

    Yet a random nutter actually shut Euston Station the other day climbing on the roof to protest about it.
    Is HS2 actually going to generate the electricity itself? If not, we'd be better off not wasting the green energy.
    So, we'd be better off environmentally continuing to import 55 million barrels of oil a year to power aircraft, cars and lorries?

    (Yes, cars may go electric within a few years of HS2 opening. The other two won't.)
    I think it's very naive to assume that HS2 will have much of an impact of road/air traffic. As I understand it, the real case for HS2 is on capacity (i.e. the WCML is close to capacity). That obviously looks a little suspect given what COVID has done to usage.
  • RobD said:

    Scott_xP said:
    Do we know whether this means jabbed once or jabbed twice? Given the report this morning that Greece, for example, will require both jabs before entry it may affect Granny’s chance of spending May in Mykonos.
    Pretty certain it means once, which would require an uptick in our current rate but achievable.

    Two doses would mean a very big increase.
    Having flights to Athens for June, we are hanging on in hope (naive perhaps) that we will be able to go having had both jabs, being in the 60-65 group. Of course, it may be technically possible but worries about the importation of some new variant mean that we choose not to go anyway.
    You'll likely get two weeks in a hotel on your return for your troubles, vaccinated or not.
    Not according to the Times...



  • DavidL said:

    Fantastic double-century partnership with a real captain's innings so far from Root. Very goot strike rate so far for him too.

    Sibley has done well, despite now being out, but to bat an entire day for 87 runs...It's pretty grim stuff. He needs to find a few more scoring shots.
    Yes agreed completely. It's a shame he didn't get a century but frankly even if it is a Test his strike rate is poor. A decent innings but if he'd been a bit more aggressive perhaps he could have got his century?

    3 down but definitely England's day I think.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    ydoethur said:

    tlg86 said:

    Sandpit said:

    tlg86 said:

    Mrs T would smile at this story:

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/05/experts-pile-pressure-on-boris-johnson-over-shocking-new-coalmine

    Pressure is growing on the government over its support for a new coalmine in Cumbria, as the UK prepares to host the most important UN climate summit since the Paris agreement was signed in 2015.

    Developing country experts, scientists, green campaigners and government advisers are increasingly concerned about the seeming contradiction of ministers backing the new mine – the UK’s first new deep coalmine in three decades, which will produce coking coal, mostly for export, until 2049 – while gathering support from world leaders for a fresh deal on the climate crisis.

    The Guardian would clearly prefer that we import the coal from some stinky plant out of sight in India or China, rather than produce it cleanly and efficiently at home.
    It's coking coal for steelworks. It should not be controversial in the slightest.
    HS2 is designed to take traffic off the roads and put it on a railway powered by renewable energy. It should not be controversial in the slightest (at least from an environmental point of view).

    Yet a random nutter actually shut Euston Station the other day climbing on the roof to protest about it.
    Is HS2 actually going to generate the electricity itself? If not, we'd be better off not wasting the green energy.
    So, we'd be better off environmentally continuing to import 55 million barrels of oil a year to power aircraft, cars and lorries?

    (Yes, cars may go electric within a few years of HS2 opening. The other two won't.)
    I think it's very naive to assume that HS2 will have much of an impact of road/air traffic. As I understand it, the real case for HS2 is on capacity (i.e. the WCML is close to capacity). That obviously looks a little suspect given what COVID has done to usage.
    It is about capacity, and about increasing capacity to divert traffic from elsewhere. But then, this is like Sindy or Brexit (or indeed the coal mine). It ultimately seems to be about emotions rather than facts. Particularly at the Beeb, whose every hopeful mention of its cancellation includes the false claim that the Oakervee review said it would cost £106 billion. I suspect they're just unnerved at the thought when HS2 is opened management may move them all to Manchester.
This discussion has been closed.