The problem with the protocol is in the detail, whether deliberate or accidental.
The GFA had two fundamentals for individuals . The right of anyone living here to choose their citizenship as Irish or British. Has not changed due to Brexit. I can have two passports if I want by dint of my address.
The concept that you can travel across borders between NI/ROI/GB. This is called the common travel area, has not changed and has been in play for decades EU or no EU. I believe the Brexit agreement left that untouched.
The problem is trade, not free movement of people. That the two have intertwined is one problem, because they shouldn't have been intertwined. In short someone didn't do their detail or someone is doing too much detail.
This shouldn't be an identity issue, its an issue of doing business and for the umpteenth time, NI's biggest market, by far, for trade in and out is GB. That's all there is to it, you have customs regulations and checks on stuff to and from ROI its got a lot smaller impact than what is happening now. Some fucking whizz concluded, however, that this was a bigger problem when the stats on trade would have told you that it wasn't.
Somehow the 'oh my god they will be burning down border posts' shit kicked off. You know how much of that came from the NI parties of all stripes? Actually not a lot. Most of it I heard was from people outside of NI.
Cannot emphasise enough, there was not going to be a return to any major trouble, zero. The usual suspects were there before 31st Dec and are there now, no change. Bit more motivated? Maybe, mass recruitment? Not a fucking chance.
This can be sorted via pragmatic working and we need to take the peace threatening talk out.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Ah, the Brecht solution:
If that is the case, would it not be be simpler, If the government simply dissolved the people And elected another?
Not often expressed as clearly as our very own @kinabalu expresses it.
Boring! Knew I'd see that. Not what I mean at all. I mean persuade, explain - preach even - rather than just tamely accept the tacitly dim and patronizing view of the British people held by populist politicians of the right. They are in the box seat now but it will soon change. So this is not the time to concede an inch to their inherently dispiriting world view. Flags away. Flags away.
Your view seems equally patronizing in dismissing the patriotic feelings of the people as if they are sheep.
Seems more likely to me that patriotism is more broad than that of populist politicians on the right and how they view it, but you are presuming people who are patriotic must be so in the same way, and that they are duped by those politicians.
Labour dont need to go overboard on flag waving in my view. And they can and should seek to change the country. But they dont need to act like those who say they are patriotic are all sheep of the populist right. Thats just 'eff off and join the Tories' all over again.
Its honestly not hard, i dont know why this issue seems to stir up so much passion.
The problem with the protocol is in the detail, whether deliberate or accidental.
The GFA had two fundamentals for individuals . The right of anyone living here to choose their citizenship as Irish or British. Has not changed due to Brexit. I can have two passports if I want by dint of my address.
The concept that you can travel across borders between NI/ROI/GB. This is called the common travel area, has not changed and has been in play for decades EU or no EU. I believe the Brexit agreement left that untouched.
The problem is trade, not free movement of people. That the two have intertwined is one problem, because they shouldn't have been intertwined. In short someone didn't do their detail or someone is doing too much detail.
This shouldn't be an identity issue, its an issue of doing business and for the umpteenth time, NI's biggest market, by far, for trade in and out is GB. That's all there is to it, you have customs regulations and checks on stuff to and from ROI its got a lot smaller impact than what is happening now. Some fucking whizz concluded, however, that this was a bigger problem when the stats on trade would have told you that it wasn't.
Somehow the 'oh my god they will be burning down border posts' shit kicked off. You know how much of that came from the NI parties of all stripes? Actually not a lot. Most of it I heard was from people outside of NI.
Cannot emphasise enough, there was not going to be a return to any major trouble, zero. The usual suspects were there before 31st Dec and are there now, no change. Bit more motivated? Maybe, mass recruitment? Not a fucking chance.
This can be sorted via pragmatic working and we need to take the peace threatening talk out.
It always stunned me that anyone even mentioned that peace would be threatened.
And yet that threatened peace was the motivation for BJ's botched 'best of both worlds' guff and a border in the Irish Sea; he must have fallen for it to some extent.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
I am not sure why anyone who aspires to govern the UK would particularly want the broad mass of people to care less about its success. The solution is not to hope people become less patriotic, but to advertise 'real' patriotism - the kind that shuns flag waving pomposity but quietly toils away till 2am wrestling with how to overcome non-tariff barriers etc. etc. REAL Government, REAL Patriotism.
It is a big problem for Labour, as it was for Dems in the US for most of the last 4 years. And that worked out OK in the end without Biden wrapping himself in the Stars n' Bars.
PENDENT-PUNDIT ALERT!
The Stars n' Bars was the official flag of the Confederate States of America.
This was NOT the famous CSA battle flag aka the Stainless Banner (the one with 13 stars on St Andrew's cross) though that was incorporated into the last version of the official flag.
CNN: UK scientists have launched the world's first study examining whether different coronavirus vaccines can safely be used for two-dose regimens, an approach they say could give extra flexibility and even boost protection against Covid-19 if approved.
Participants in the 13-month study will be given the Oxford/AstraZeneca and Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines in different combinations and at different intervals.
99.1% visited, so the number vaccinated is probably as high as it is going to get.
But only 80% of residents vaccinated.
If the Scottish figure is indeed correct (and I truly find it hard to believe it true) that is an astonishing difference.
You are going off the total number, rather than the number eligible?
Yes because that is what Sturgeon is claiming has been achieved in Scotland.
And I find that fairly unbelievable.
Look... If Sturgeon says it's wonderful then BBC Scotland will say it's wonderful. So pay attention then "how about getting with the programme? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?"
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
Labour had the chance, not to change the electorate, but to introduce a fairer way of delivering its representation, having explicitly promised to do so in its manifesto. That Labour reneged on this promise, led astray by the hubris of its false parliamentary majorities, is surely the biggest political misjudgment it has made during our lifetime.
Possibly. Certainly I favour PR and if Labour now cannot win outright, I favour it even more. I think it's probably coming. The country will not tolerate electing Tory governments the whole time. I'd miss the dramatic brutality of FPTP but it really is a bizarre system when you think rationally about it.
After yesterday’s PMQs theatre, Labour reluctantly admitted Starmer had called for UK membership of the European Medicines Agency post-Brexit. Guido can reveal Starmer went further than merely talking the talk – he voted for an amendment in 2018 that would have seen the UK bound into EMA membership. The amendment in question was New Clause 17 to the 2018 Trade Bill, which read:
“It shall be the objective of an appropriate authority to take all necessary steps to implement an international trade agreement, which enables the UK to fully participate after exit day in the European medicines regulatory network partnership between the European Union, European Economic Area and the European Medicines Agency.”
During the epic May-era parliamentary battle, Starmer, along with 240 Labour MPs, two sitting Tories and others – voted for this, trying to ensure the UK made it a negotiating objective “to participate in the European medicines regulatory network partnership between the EU, EEA and the European Medicines Agency”. At the time proclaiming this would ensure patients continue “to have access to high-quality, effective and safe pharmaceutical and medical products, fully aligned with the member states of the EU and EEA.” Keir might be be hoping we have forgotten, Guido is not convinced his famously forensic legal brain would have really forgotten...
This story feels very much like a #10 sting and something they were extremely bad at all of last year.
They have dug out a specific and topical example of where old Remainer Starmer was consistently doing everything possible to keep the UK in the EU....and then helpfully pointed a friendly gossip monger to where to go looking.
Doh. It's hardly a revelation that Starmer wanted to stay in, or as close as possible to, the EU back in 2018, is it? I suspect that's well known, and he can't change that. What's important now is that he has accepted that Brexit has happened and any prospect of rejoining is very distant.
It smacks a bit of desperation to land a killer blow on Starmer, and will fail. Maybe the Tories, and Guido, should focus on what he's said/done since he became leader.
Although not quite as feeble as the recent "scoop" revealing that 16 years ago he said that many years before that, as a thrusting young radical, he was not enamoured by the notion of a hereditary Head of State. I mean, c'mon. If that's a big vote loser for the mainstream party of the left in Britain, Britain has no use for a mainstream party of the left. And before BluestBlue or anyone similarly inclined nips in with a smart arse reply, of course Britain does need and want a mainstream party of the left.
As if I would ever say something like that! For all I know, Britain may well need and want a mainstream party of the left; it just doesn't seem all that keen on electing one to power.
This is a betting site uber alles so I say again a factoid which imo should be etched in people's brains for the long term.
In the early hours of the morning following GE17 a certain Jeremy Corbyn - not just left wing but a lifelong member of the HARD left - went odds on favourite in running to be the next Prime Minister of this country.
Think on.
Went odds on for betting failed miserably to get elected
To deliver the massive modal shift required, TEE 2.0 will look very different to its luxury predecessor, but a comprehensive and integrated network of frequent high-speed trains has the potential to transform how we travel across Europe over the next three decades.
99.1% visited, so the number vaccinated is probably as high as it is going to get.
But only 80% of residents vaccinated.
If the Scottish figure is indeed correct (and I truly find it hard to believe it true) that is an astonishing difference.
You are going off the total number, rather than the number eligible?
Yes because that is what Sturgeon is claiming has been achieved in Scotland.
And I find that fairly unbelievable.
Look... If Sturgeon says it's wonderful then BBC Scotland will say it's wonderful. So pay attention then "how about getting with the programme? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?"
You think BBC Scotland are supporters of Sturgeon?
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
No. Persuade the electorate; that's what campaigning is about. Labour will never (and doesn't want to) win over those who are very right wing, whether they be Tory toffs, Faragists, or sections of the white working class (not that high a proportion, actually) that tend towards xenophobia and other prejudices. But they need to persuade others that they are fit to govern. That means neutralising the 'patriotism' issue, not by flag waving but by persuading the majority that Labour likes this country (which it does) and will protect its interests. If the electorate is unpersuadable, then we may as well give up. But Labour doesn't need to persuade BluestBlue, for example; he is out of reach.
Hmm... thats a good idea. The Scottish Nationalists abolished the Saltire didnt they. Didnt they?
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
I am not sure why anyone who aspires to govern the UK would particularly want the broad mass of people to care less about its success. The solution is not to hope people become less patriotic, but to advertise 'real' patriotism - the kind that shuns flag waving pomposity but quietly toils away till 2am wrestling with how to overcome non-tariff barriers etc. etc. REAL Government, REAL Patriotism.
Sure. But if all patriotism means is success for the country it becomes meaningless. Because everyone here wants that. Even me.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
Labour had the chance, not to change the electorate, but to introduce a fairer way of delivering its representation, having explicitly promised to do so in its manifesto. That Labour reneged on this promise, led astray by the hubris of its false parliamentary majorities, is surely the biggest political misjudgment it has made during our lifetime.
Possibly. Certainly I favour PR and if Labour now cannot win outright, I favour it even more. I think it's probably coming. The country will not tolerate electing Tory governments the whole time. I'd miss the dramatic brutality of FPTP but it really is a bizarre system when you think rationally about it.
99.1% visited, so the number vaccinated is probably as high as it is going to get.
But only 80% of residents vaccinated.
If the Scottish figure is indeed correct (and I truly find it hard to believe it true) that is an astonishing difference.
You are going off the total number, rather than the number eligible?
Yes because that is what Sturgeon is claiming has been achieved in Scotland.
And I find that fairly unbelievable.
Absolutely.
I'd be extremely surprised if the sum of all Care residents who (A) refused the vaccine, (B) currently have [or are suspected to have] Covid so can't receive the vaccine yet and (C) are allergic to or otherwise incapable of receiving the vaccine . . . are all combined less than 2%.
The problem with the protocol is in the detail, whether deliberate or accidental.
The GFA had two fundamentals for individuals . The right of anyone living here to choose their citizenship as Irish or British. Has not changed due to Brexit. I can have two passports if I want by dint of my address.
The concept that you can travel across borders between NI/ROI/GB. This is called the common travel area, has not changed and has been in play for decades EU or no EU. I believe the Brexit agreement left that untouched.
The problem is trade, not free movement of people. That the two have intertwined is one problem, because they shouldn't have been intertwined. In short someone didn't do their detail or someone is doing too much detail.
This shouldn't be an identity issue, its an issue of doing business and for the umpteenth time, NI's biggest market, by far, for trade in and out is GB. That's all there is to it, you have customs regulations and checks on stuff to and from ROI its got a lot smaller impact than what is happening now. Some fucking whizz concluded, however, that this was a bigger problem when the stats on trade would have told you that it wasn't.
Somehow the 'oh my god they will be burning down border posts' shit kicked off. You know how much of that came from the NI parties of all stripes? Actually not a lot. Most of it I heard was from people outside of NI.
Cannot emphasise enough, there was not going to be a return to any major trouble, zero. The usual suspects were there before 31st Dec and are there now, no change. Bit more motivated? Maybe, mass recruitment? Not a fucking chance.
This can be sorted via pragmatic working and we need to take the peace threatening talk out.
It always stunned me that anyone even mentioned that peace would be threatened.
Well they did, talk of fragility and surprisingly frequent raising of the spectre of customs posts on the border getting attacked. Those posts were never going to happen.
Sadly the reality is that getting a fairly coherent working solution with paperwork but a bit of common sense may end up taking an incident to focus minds because so called principles guiding some of the rules aren't principles at all. In all the talk about the fragility of peace, the bureaucrats, by accident or design, have worked a position where people are getting antsy because a lot of it is petty nonsense. Its the consumer market where the problem lies because its visible. A few problems with deliveries and some companies have just knocked it on the head. People notice some goods are not on the shelves. Garden centres have issues because of some crap about GB soil.
My gut is that some sense and also some patience to get the processes right will move things on a lot, but will you get sense? The danger is you wont until its forced on an agenda.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Ah, the Brecht solution:
If that is the case, would it not be be simpler, If the government simply dissolved the people And elected another?
Not often expressed as clearly as our very own @kinabalu expresses it.
Boring! Knew I'd see that. Not what I mean at all. I mean persuade, explain - preach even - rather than just tamely accept the tacitly dim and patronizing view of the British people held by populist politicians of the right. They are in the box seat now but it will soon change. So this is not the time to concede an inch to their inherently dispiriting world view. Flags away. Flags away.
What if, and bear with me on this, it's the majority that have something to teach you?
Yes, great comment. Politicians should persuade not pander (my point) and should listen not lecture (your point). Out of this comes the right balance. Right now we're doing too much pandering and lecturing and not enough persuading and listening.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
Labour had the chance, not to change the electorate, but to introduce a fairer way of delivering its representation, having explicitly promised to do so in its manifesto. That Labour reneged on this promise, led astray by the hubris of its false parliamentary majorities, is surely the biggest political misjudgment it has made during our lifetime.
Possibly. Certainly I favour PR and if Labour now cannot win outright, I favour it even more. I think it's probably coming. The country will not tolerate electing Tory governments the whole time. I'd miss the dramatic brutality of FPTP but it really is a bizarre system when you think rationally about it.
How exactly do you expect to get to pr if labour can no long win outright they can only win with the snp. That means an independence referendum. That means labour loses power and tories come back in because scotland is now a different country. Even if you pass a law on pr first the tories just go fuck you and repeal it
99.1% visited, so the number vaccinated is probably as high as it is going to get.
But only 80% of residents vaccinated.
If the Scottish figure is indeed correct (and I truly find it hard to believe it true) that is an astonishing difference.
You are going off the total number, rather than the number eligible?
Yes because that is what Sturgeon is claiming has been achieved in Scotland.
And I find that fairly unbelievable.
Look... If Sturgeon says it's wonderful then BBC Scotland will say it's wonderful. So pay attention then "how about getting with the programme? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?"
I have just checked the numbers. It is indeed true.
Scotland has vaccinated 98% of older adult care homes. England has done 81%.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
The electorate are very reluctant to have scales removed from eyes.
I mean, they kept voting for Salmond and Sturgeon.....
But the likes of Johnson don't want to remove them. That's very fishy.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
I am not sure why anyone who aspires to govern the UK would particularly want the broad mass of people to care less about its success. The solution is not to hope people become less patriotic, but to advertise 'real' patriotism - the kind that shuns flag waving pomposity but quietly toils away till 2am wrestling with how to overcome non-tariff barriers etc. etc. REAL Government, REAL Patriotism.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
And, let's be honest, there's an important strand of the government that is tying to do the same thing. "Britannia Unchained" is all about the idea that the British Public need to raise their eyes to the far horizon and work harder to take opportunities on the other side of the world.
What if Liz Truss invites us all to a party on the other side of the world, and nobody from Britain turns up?
(But yes. From the perspective of a politically homeless Clarkeite ex-Conservative, Labour needs to be more relaxed about having flags in the backdrop. I've said that Cool Britannia or the Spirit of 2012 is the way to do this.)
Mmm. We are soon to be a Pacific Rim country. Exciting or what. Impossible to combat a Tory government that can weave that sort of magic.
An ex-con? I thought you were solid Labour! Poor show by me on that. Losing my touch.
99.1% visited, so the number vaccinated is probably as high as it is going to get.
But only 80% of residents vaccinated.
If the Scottish figure is indeed correct (and I truly find it hard to believe it true) that is an astonishing difference.
You are going off the total number, rather than the number eligible?
Yes because that is what Sturgeon is claiming has been achieved in Scotland.
And I find that fairly unbelievable.
Look... If Sturgeon says it's wonderful then BBC Scotland will say it's wonderful. So pay attention then "how about getting with the programme? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?"
I have just checked the numbers. It is indeed true.
Scotland has vaccinated 98% of older adult care homes. England has done 81%.
That is an astonishing difference.
They must have really flung the kitchen sink at the initial programme, it would certainly explain why the initial rollout was painstakingly slow.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
Labour had the chance, not to change the electorate, but to introduce a fairer way of delivering its representation, having explicitly promised to do so in its manifesto. That Labour reneged on this promise, led astray by the hubris of its false parliamentary majorities, is surely the biggest political misjudgment it has made during our lifetime.
Possibly. Certainly I favour PR and if Labour now cannot win outright, I favour it even more. I think it's probably coming. The country will not tolerate electing Tory governments the whole time. I'd miss the dramatic brutality of FPTP but it really is a bizarre system when you think rationally about it.
Your problem is there is no way the SNP will vote to allow PR - because then they are a side-show at Westminster, rather than the support Labour vitally needs to form a Government.
99.1% visited, so the number vaccinated is probably as high as it is going to get.
But only 80% of residents vaccinated.
If the Scottish figure is indeed correct (and I truly find it hard to believe it true) that is an astonishing difference.
You are going off the total number, rather than the number eligible?
Yes because that is what Sturgeon is claiming has been achieved in Scotland.
And I find that fairly unbelievable.
Look... If Sturgeon says it's wonderful then BBC Scotland will say it's wonderful. So pay attention then "how about getting with the programme? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?"
I have just checked the numbers. It is indeed true.
Scotland has vaccinated 98% of older adult care homes. England has done 81%.
That is an astonishing difference.
They must have really flung the kitchen sink at the initial programme, it would certainly explain why the initial rollout was painstakingly slow.
I honestly feel a bit of a dick for getting so pissed off at how slow the rollout was going now.
I'm still going to double check this again because I still struggle to believe the refused/cannot group is only 2%.
I read a report in the Guardian suggesting a batch of 90 millions doses of the AZ vaccine were starting delivery for a group of countries in Africa in the next month.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
Labour had the chance, not to change the electorate, but to introduce a fairer way of delivering its representation, having explicitly promised to do so in its manifesto. That Labour reneged on this promise, led astray by the hubris of its false parliamentary majorities, is surely the biggest political misjudgment it has made during our lifetime.
Possibly. Certainly I favour PR and if Labour now cannot win outright, I favour it even more. I think it's probably coming. The country will not tolerate electing Tory governments the whole time. I'd miss the dramatic brutality of FPTP but it really is a bizarre system when you think rationally about it.
Your problem is there is no way the SNP will vote to allow PR - because then they are a side-show at Westminster, rather than the support Labour vitally needs to form a Government.
Actually they've supported voting reform at Westminster for yonks, to the extent of supporting and campaigning for the miserable little compromise. Not quite sure what vital relevance and influence you think they'd be giving up.
99.1% visited, so the number vaccinated is probably as high as it is going to get.
But only 80% of residents vaccinated.
If the Scottish figure is indeed correct (and I truly find it hard to believe it true) that is an astonishing difference.
You are going off the total number, rather than the number eligible?
Yes because that is what Sturgeon is claiming has been achieved in Scotland.
And I find that fairly unbelievable.
Look... If Sturgeon says it's wonderful then BBC Scotland will say it's wonderful. So pay attention then "how about getting with the programme? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?"
I have just checked the numbers. It is indeed true.
Scotland has vaccinated 98% of older adult care homes. England has done 81%.
That is an astonishing difference.
They must have really flung the kitchen sink at the initial programme, it would certainly explain why the initial rollout was painstakingly slow.
Impressive to only have 2% who either i) refused, ii) were not suitable, because of pre-existing conditions or recent infection. Truly incredible impressive!
99.1% visited, so the number vaccinated is probably as high as it is going to get.
But only 80% of residents vaccinated.
If the Scottish figure is indeed correct (and I truly find it hard to believe it true) that is an astonishing difference.
You are going off the total number, rather than the number eligible?
Yes because that is what Sturgeon is claiming has been achieved in Scotland.
And I find that fairly unbelievable.
Absolutely.
I'd be extremely surprised if the sum of all Care residents who (A) refused the vaccine, (B) currently have [or are suspected to have] Covid so can't receive the vaccine yet and (C) are allergic to or otherwise incapable of receiving the vaccine . . . are all combined less than 2%.
99.1% visited, so the number vaccinated is probably as high as it is going to get.
But only 80% of residents vaccinated.
If the Scottish figure is indeed correct (and I truly find it hard to believe it true) that is an astonishing difference.
You are going off the total number, rather than the number eligible?
Yes because that is what Sturgeon is claiming has been achieved in Scotland.
And I find that fairly unbelievable.
Look... If Sturgeon says it's wonderful then BBC Scotland will say it's wonderful. So pay attention then "how about getting with the programme? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?"
I have just checked the numbers. It is indeed true.
Scotland has vaccinated 98% of older adult care homes. England has done 81%.
That is an astonishing difference.
They must have really flung the kitchen sink at the initial programme, it would certainly explain why the initial rollout was painstakingly slow.
I honestly feel a bit of a dick for getting so pissed off at how slow the rollout was going now.
I'm still going to double check this again because I still struggle to believe the refused/cannot group is only 2%.
My understanding from some GPs doing older people was that take up has been very high indeed. Its possible care homes are in the same bracket. The reasoning was simple. They just want their lives back.
99.1% visited, so the number vaccinated is probably as high as it is going to get.
But only 80% of residents vaccinated.
If the Scottish figure is indeed correct (and I truly find it hard to believe it true) that is an astonishing difference.
You are going off the total number, rather than the number eligible?
Yes because that is what Sturgeon is claiming has been achieved in Scotland.
And I find that fairly unbelievable.
Look... If Sturgeon says it's wonderful then BBC Scotland will say it's wonderful. So pay attention then "how about getting with the programme? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?"
I have just checked the numbers. It is indeed true.
Scotland has vaccinated 98% of older adult care homes. England has done 81%.
That is an astonishing difference.
They must have really flung the kitchen sink at the initial programme, it would certainly explain why the initial rollout was painstakingly slow.
Impressive to only have 2% who either i) refused, ii) were not suitable, because of pre-existing conditions or recent infection. Truly incredible impressive!
At least we can all agree that 81% (and the mealy mouthed cover up of that figure) is deeply unimpressive.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
During the war Labour used the political breathing space to develop a truly radical blueprint for the better society it wanted to see after the war - much of it drawn from inter-war liberal thinking (such as the Beveridge report); securing election in 1945 on the back of this programme, the extent of change it achieved during its first term was breathtaking - the creation of the NHS, the modern welfare state, and the groundbreaking Planning Act.
Where are the signs that anyone on the centre or left of politics is even thinking about the same amount of heavy lifting for the 21st century?
Taking the widest historical view, the left of politics has always concerned itself with the radical changes needed to march society toward a better future (the consequences of such are for another day). Where is such a vision today? If Labour in 2024 simply puts itself forward as a more credible team of technocratic managers than the current lot, they are surely doomed.
I think I agree, Ian. The country wants a vision. Not the same one, obviously and thankfully, but certainly something more than just a return to moderation and competence. The world is really changing fast.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
Labour had the chance, not to change the electorate, but to introduce a fairer way of delivering its representation, having explicitly promised to do so in its manifesto. That Labour reneged on this promise, led astray by the hubris of its false parliamentary majorities, is surely the biggest political misjudgment it has made during our lifetime.
Possibly. Certainly I favour PR and if Labour now cannot win outright, I favour it even more. I think it's probably coming. The country will not tolerate electing Tory governments the whole time. I'd miss the dramatic brutality of FPTP but it really is a bizarre system when you think rationally about it.
Your problem is there is no way the SNP will vote to allow PR - because then they are a side-show at Westminster, rather than the support Labour vitally needs to form a Government.
Actually they've supported voting reform at Westminster for yonks, to the extent of supporting and campaigning for the miserable little compromise. Not quite sure what vital relevance and influence you think they'd be giving up.
The SNP has a fabulous opportunity to get exactly what it wants - if they are propping up a minority Labour Govt. If they get it, then they won't give a damn about PR for the rump UK Parliament. But they would be idiots to agree it in advance of that - whatever their prior position has been. And they will not be idiots.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
I am not sure why anyone who aspires to govern the UK would particularly want the broad mass of people to care less about its success. The solution is not to hope people become less patriotic, but to advertise 'real' patriotism - the kind that shuns flag waving pomposity but quietly toils away till 2am wrestling with how to overcome non-tariff barriers etc. etc. REAL Government, REAL Patriotism.
Sure. But if all patriotism means is success for the country it becomes meaningless. Because everyone here wants that. Even me.
I take you at your word, but not everyone here (or anywhere) is passionate about wanting the UK to succeed. Our energies go in lots of different directions, and some loyalties conflict. Some people will be more 'patriotic' toward Yorkshire, Scotland, or the EU than they are about the UK. Some won't prioritise a place at all - it will be about money, or a corporation, for some, their loyalty will lie with the global proletariat. If not enough people feel sufficiently bought in to the idea of the nation state, it becomes an issue.
The problem with the protocol is in the detail, whether deliberate or accidental.
The GFA had two fundamentals for individuals . The right of anyone living here to choose their citizenship as Irish or British. Has not changed due to Brexit. I can have two passports if I want by dint of my address.
The concept that you can travel across borders between NI/ROI/GB. This is called the common travel area, has not changed and has been in play for decades EU or no EU. I believe the Brexit agreement left that untouched.
The problem is trade, not free movement of people. That the two have intertwined is one problem, because they shouldn't have been intertwined. In short someone didn't do their detail or someone is doing too much detail.
This shouldn't be an identity issue, its an issue of doing business and for the umpteenth time, NI's biggest market, by far, for trade in and out is GB. That's all there is to it, you have customs regulations and checks on stuff to and from ROI its got a lot smaller impact than what is happening now. Some fucking whizz concluded, however, that this was a bigger problem when the stats on trade would have told you that it wasn't.
Somehow the 'oh my god they will be burning down border posts' shit kicked off. You know how much of that came from the NI parties of all stripes? Actually not a lot. Most of it I heard was from people outside of NI.
Cannot emphasise enough, there was not going to be a return to any major trouble, zero. The usual suspects were there before 31st Dec and are there now, no change. Bit more motivated? Maybe, mass recruitment? Not a fucking chance.
This can be sorted via pragmatic working and we need to take the peace threatening talk out.
It always stunned me that anyone even mentioned that peace would be threatened.
Well they did, talk of fragility and surprisingly frequent raising of the spectre of customs posts on the border getting attacked. Those posts were never going to happen.
Sadly the reality is that getting a fairly coherent working solution with paperwork but a bit of common sense may end up taking an incident to focus minds because so called principles guiding some of the rules aren't principles at all. In all the talk about the fragility of peace, the bureaucrats, by accident or design, have worked a position where people are getting antsy because a lot of it is petty nonsense. Its the consumer market where the problem lies because its visible. A few problems with deliveries and some companies have just knocked it on the head. People notice some goods are not on the shelves. Garden centres have issues because of some crap about GB soil.
My gut is that some sense and also some patience to get the processes right will move things on a lot, but will you get sense? The danger is you wont until its forced on an agenda.
"Via pragmatic working" does not amount to a solution from Yokes. The issue is to put in clear English the overall solution that is neither a square circle nor a unicorn. The reluctance of the DUP and the Tory headbangers to describe it, as opposed to rejecting every option, is quite telling.
After yesterday’s PMQs theatre, Labour reluctantly admitted Starmer had called for UK membership of the European Medicines Agency post-Brexit. Guido can reveal Starmer went further than merely talking the talk – he voted for an amendment in 2018 that would have seen the UK bound into EMA membership. The amendment in question was New Clause 17 to the 2018 Trade Bill, which read:
“It shall be the objective of an appropriate authority to take all necessary steps to implement an international trade agreement, which enables the UK to fully participate after exit day in the European medicines regulatory network partnership between the European Union, European Economic Area and the European Medicines Agency.”
During the epic May-era parliamentary battle, Starmer, along with 240 Labour MPs, two sitting Tories and others – voted for this, trying to ensure the UK made it a negotiating objective “to participate in the European medicines regulatory network partnership between the EU, EEA and the European Medicines Agency”. At the time proclaiming this would ensure patients continue “to have access to high-quality, effective and safe pharmaceutical and medical products, fully aligned with the member states of the EU and EEA.” Keir might be be hoping we have forgotten, Guido is not convinced his famously forensic legal brain would have really forgotten...
This story feels very much like a #10 sting and something they were extremely bad at all of last year.
They have dug out a specific and topical example of where old Remainer Starmer was consistently doing everything possible to keep the UK in the EU....and then helpfully pointed a friendly gossip monger to where to go looking.
Doh. It's hardly a revelation that Starmer wanted to stay in, or as close as possible to, the EU back in 2018, is it? I suspect that's well known, and he can't change that. What's important now is that he has accepted that Brexit has happened and any prospect of rejoining is very distant.
It smacks a bit of desperation to land a killer blow on Starmer, and will fail. Maybe the Tories, and Guido, should focus on what he's said/done since he became leader.
Although not quite as feeble as the recent "scoop" revealing that 16 years ago he said that many years before that, as a thrusting young radical, he was not enamoured by the notion of a hereditary Head of State. I mean, c'mon. If that's a big vote loser for the mainstream party of the left in Britain, Britain has no use for a mainstream party of the left. And before BluestBlue or anyone similarly inclined nips in with a smart arse reply, of course Britain does need and want a mainstream party of the left.
As if I would ever say something like that! For all I know, Britain may well need and want a mainstream party of the left; it just doesn't seem all that keen on electing one to power.
This is a betting site uber alles so I say again a factoid which imo should be etched in people's brains for the long term.
In the early hours of the morning following GE17 a certain Jeremy Corbyn - not just left wing but a lifelong member of the HARD left - went odds on favourite in running to be the next Prime Minister of this country.
Think on.
Went odds on for betting failed miserably to get elected
Just failed. There was nothing miserable about the morning after GE17 for Corbyn or a Labour supporter. It felt like 2nd May 97. Trust me, it did.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
Labour had the chance, not to change the electorate, but to introduce a fairer way of delivering its representation, having explicitly promised to do so in its manifesto. That Labour reneged on this promise, led astray by the hubris of its false parliamentary majorities, is surely the biggest political misjudgment it has made during our lifetime.
Possibly. Certainly I favour PR and if Labour now cannot win outright, I favour it even more. I think it's probably coming. The country will not tolerate electing Tory governments the whole time. I'd miss the dramatic brutality of FPTP but it really is a bizarre system when you think rationally about it.
Your problem is there is no way the SNP will vote to allow PR - because then they are a side-show at Westminster, rather than the support Labour vitally needs to form a Government.
Actually they've supported voting reform at Westminster for yonks, to the extent of supporting and campaigning for the miserable little compromise. Not quite sure what vital relevance and influence you think they'd be giving up.
still doesnt change the maths though
if labour can only form a government with snp support which is going to happen
a) labour + snp form government PR Legislation scottish independence referendum rump uk general election
or
b) labour + snp form government PR legislation general election scottish independence referendum
It is never going to be B as far as the snp is concerned as if there is a general election they may not get an independence referendum if it goes the wrong way in the general election so being left with A) as soon as the scots go labour is no longer the government and the pr legislation gets repealed
The problem with the protocol is in the detail, whether deliberate or accidental.
The GFA had two fundamentals for individuals . The right of anyone living here to choose their citizenship as Irish or British. Has not changed due to Brexit. I can have two passports if I want by dint of my address.
The concept that you can travel across borders between NI/ROI/GB. This is called the common travel area, has not changed and has been in play for decades EU or no EU. I believe the Brexit agreement left that untouched.
The problem is trade, not free movement of people. That the two have intertwined is one problem, because they shouldn't have been intertwined. In short someone didn't do their detail or someone is doing too much detail.
This shouldn't be an identity issue, its an issue of doing business and for the umpteenth time, NI's biggest market, by far, for trade in and out is GB. That's all there is to it, you have customs regulations and checks on stuff to and from ROI its got a lot smaller impact than what is happening now. Some fucking whizz concluded, however, that this was a bigger problem when the stats on trade would have told you that it wasn't.
Somehow the 'oh my god they will be burning down border posts' shit kicked off. You know how much of that came from the NI parties of all stripes? Actually not a lot. Most of it I heard was from people outside of NI.
Cannot emphasise enough, there was not going to be a return to any major trouble, zero. The usual suspects were there before 31st Dec and are there now, no change. Bit more motivated? Maybe, mass recruitment? Not a fucking chance.
This can be sorted via pragmatic working and we need to take the peace threatening talk out.
It always stunned me that anyone even mentioned that peace would be threatened.
Well they did, talk of fragility and surprisingly frequent raising of the spectre of customs posts on the border getting attacked. Those posts were never going to happen.
Sadly the reality is that getting a fairly coherent working solution with paperwork but a bit of common sense may end up taking an incident to focus minds because so called principles guiding some of the rules aren't principles at all. In all the talk about the fragility of peace, the bureaucrats, by accident or design, have worked a position where people are getting antsy because a lot of it is petty nonsense. Its the consumer market where the problem lies because its visible. A few problems with deliveries and some companies have just knocked it on the head. People notice some goods are not on the shelves. Garden centres have issues because of some crap about GB soil.
My gut is that some sense and also some patience to get the processes right will move things on a lot, but will you get sense? The danger is you wont until its forced on an agenda.
"Via pragmatic working" does not amount to a solution from Yokes. The issue is to put in clear English the overall solution that is neither a square circle nor a unicorn. The reluctance of the DUP and the Tory headbangers to describe it, as opposed to rejecting every option, is quite telling.
So let me get this straight, Are you implying I'm one of those headbangers?
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
No. Persuade the electorate; that's what campaigning is about. Labour will never (and doesn't want to) win over those who are very right wing, whether they be Tory toffs, Faragists, or sections of the white working class (not that high a proportion, actually) that tend towards xenophobia and other prejudices. But they need to persuade others that they are fit to govern. That means neutralising the 'patriotism' issue, not by flag waving but by persuading the majority that Labour likes this country (which it does) and will protect its interests. If the electorate is unpersuadable, then we may as well give up. But Labour doesn't need to persuade BluestBlue, for example; he is out of reach.
I agree with you, Al. I'm just expressing it in a different and less amenable way.
More than 100 Public Health England workers have been given a Covid jab despite not falling into any of the priority categories, the Guardian can reveal.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
Labour had the chance, not to change the electorate, but to introduce a fairer way of delivering its representation, having explicitly promised to do so in its manifesto. That Labour reneged on this promise, led astray by the hubris of its false parliamentary majorities, is surely the biggest political misjudgment it has made during our lifetime.
Possibly. Certainly I favour PR and if Labour now cannot win outright, I favour it even more. I think it's probably coming. The country will not tolerate electing Tory governments the whole time. I'd miss the dramatic brutality of FPTP but it really is a bizarre system when you think rationally about it.
How exactly do you expect to get to pr if labour can no long win outright they can only win with the snp. That means an independence referendum. That means labour loses power and tories come back in because scotland is now a different country. Even if you pass a law on pr first the tories just go fuck you and repeal it
Starmer is much more popular in Scotland than Boris, hence also much more likely to grant a legal indyref2 than Boris as he is more likely to win it
More than 100 Public Health England workers have been given a Covid jab despite not falling into any of the priority categories, the Guardian can reveal.
OMFG, out of ten MILLION jabs, perhaps 100 were not accurately queued. Jeez, the Groaniad is desperate for a bad news vaccine story
Yup. The only important things are speed and the total number. It doesn't matter if some people skip the queue as long as the majority are allocated as per the agreed priority list. It's not like people who have been vaccinated are allowed to go to the pub or are treated in any special way, so who cares?
After yesterday’s PMQs theatre, Labour reluctantly admitted Starmer had called for UK membership of the European Medicines Agency post-Brexit. Guido can reveal Starmer went further than merely talking the talk – he voted for an amendment in 2018 that would have seen the UK bound into EMA membership. The amendment in question was New Clause 17 to the 2018 Trade Bill, which read:
“It shall be the objective of an appropriate authority to take all necessary steps to implement an international trade agreement, which enables the UK to fully participate after exit day in the European medicines regulatory network partnership between the European Union, European Economic Area and the European Medicines Agency.”
During the epic May-era parliamentary battle, Starmer, along with 240 Labour MPs, two sitting Tories and others – voted for this, trying to ensure the UK made it a negotiating objective “to participate in the European medicines regulatory network partnership between the EU, EEA and the European Medicines Agency”. At the time proclaiming this would ensure patients continue “to have access to high-quality, effective and safe pharmaceutical and medical products, fully aligned with the member states of the EU and EEA.” Keir might be be hoping we have forgotten, Guido is not convinced his famously forensic legal brain would have really forgotten...
This story feels very much like a #10 sting and something they were extremely bad at all of last year.
They have dug out a specific and topical example of where old Remainer Starmer was consistently doing everything possible to keep the UK in the EU....and then helpfully pointed a friendly gossip monger to where to go looking.
Doh. It's hardly a revelation that Starmer wanted to stay in, or as close as possible to, the EU back in 2018, is it? I suspect that's well known, and he can't change that. What's important now is that he has accepted that Brexit has happened and any prospect of rejoining is very distant.
It smacks a bit of desperation to land a killer blow on Starmer, and will fail. Maybe the Tories, and Guido, should focus on what he's said/done since he became leader.
Although not quite as feeble as the recent "scoop" revealing that 16 years ago he said that many years before that, as a thrusting young radical, he was not enamoured by the notion of a hereditary Head of State. I mean, c'mon. If that's a big vote loser for the mainstream party of the left in Britain, Britain has no use for a mainstream party of the left. And before BluestBlue or anyone similarly inclined nips in with a smart arse reply, of course Britain does need and want a mainstream party of the left.
As if I would ever say something like that! For all I know, Britain may well need and want a mainstream party of the left; it just doesn't seem all that keen on electing one to power.
This is a betting site uber alles so I say again a factoid which imo should be etched in people's brains for the long term.
In the early hours of the morning following GE17 a certain Jeremy Corbyn - not just left wing but a lifelong member of the HARD left - went odds on favourite in running to be the next Prime Minister of this country.
Think on.
Went odds on for betting failed miserably to get elected
Just failed. There was nothing miserable about the morning after GE17 for Corbyn or a Labour supporter. It felt like 2nd May 97. Trust me, it did.
Well I can understand that....if your team consistently lose you try and take victories out of not doing so bad. Personally I think 2017 was more that no one thought corbyn had a chance and plenty who voted for him wouldn't have if they felt the vote was going to be even as close as it is.
The corbyn style left have been putting their agenda to the country for 50 years and been consistently told no.....maybe they should take a hint
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
Labour had the chance, not to change the electorate, but to introduce a fairer way of delivering its representation, having explicitly promised to do so in its manifesto. That Labour reneged on this promise, led astray by the hubris of its false parliamentary majorities, is surely the biggest political misjudgment it has made during our lifetime.
Possibly. Certainly I favour PR and if Labour now cannot win outright, I favour it even more. I think it's probably coming. The country will not tolerate electing Tory governments the whole time. I'd miss the dramatic brutality of FPTP but it really is a bizarre system when you think rationally about it.
PR would make it more difficult for the Tories to win outright but also make it impossible for the Labour left to win a majority too, Corbyn would never have come close to a majority in 2017 as he did under PR for example.
PR would just make the LDs kingmakers in almost every general election, 2015 the only recent exception when UKIP would have held the balance of power.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
Labour had the chance, not to change the electorate, but to introduce a fairer way of delivering its representation, having explicitly promised to do so in its manifesto. That Labour reneged on this promise, led astray by the hubris of its false parliamentary majorities, is surely the biggest political misjudgment it has made during our lifetime.
Possibly. Certainly I favour PR and if Labour now cannot win outright, I favour it even more. I think it's probably coming. The country will not tolerate electing Tory governments the whole time. I'd miss the dramatic brutality of FPTP but it really is a bizarre system when you think rationally about it.
Your problem is there is no way the SNP will vote to allow PR - because then they are a side-show at Westminster, rather than the support Labour vitally needs to form a Government.
I was more thinking beyond the mechanics. If FPTP keeps returning pure Tory government on a minority of the vote the "people" will eventually demand a stop to it via electoral reform.
Interesting that he's moving to exclude Germany from such a high level meeting. Clearly he believes the France now has the foreign policy whip hand within the EU and including Britain in discussions as a third party but not Germany definitely gives France some level of prominence within the EU they didn't have with the UK in it.
Do wonder how the EU and Germany in particular will react if he does push French foreign policy objectives through means that are inaccessible to the EU and Germany.
To deliver the massive modal shift required, TEE 2.0 will look very different to its luxury predecessor, but a comprehensive and integrated network of frequent high-speed trains has the potential to transform how we travel across Europe over the next three decades.
Takes me back to the heady days of Inter-Rail in the 1980s. Travelling across northern and western Europe and not arguing with the West German border guards as they woke you at 6am to check your passport.
In Denmark in 1986, they ran a scheme which included cheap accommodation in old houses (think National Trust or English Heritage style properties). Fantastic summer travelling round Denmark and southern Sweden.
I want justice for everyone, even Salmond. I would also like a constituent nation of the UK to NOT be so obviously a one-party state, corrupt at the very top
If fixing this fucks Sturgeon and the Nats, at the same time, all the better!
But my desire is still the correct and moral choice
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
Labour had the chance, not to change the electorate, but to introduce a fairer way of delivering its representation, having explicitly promised to do so in its manifesto. That Labour reneged on this promise, led astray by the hubris of its false parliamentary majorities, is surely the biggest political misjudgment it has made during our lifetime.
Possibly. Certainly I favour PR and if Labour now cannot win outright, I favour it even more. I think it's probably coming. The country will not tolerate electing Tory governments the whole time. I'd miss the dramatic brutality of FPTP but it really is a bizarre system when you think rationally about it.
How exactly do you expect to get to pr if labour can no long win outright they can only win with the snp. That means an independence referendum. That means labour loses power and tories come back in because scotland is now a different country. Even if you pass a law on pr first the tories just go fuck you and repeal it
Starmer is much more popular in Scotland than Boris, hence also much more likely to grant a legal indyref2 than Boris as he is more likely to win it
99.1% visited, so the number vaccinated is probably as high as it is going to get.
But only 80% of residents vaccinated.
If the Scottish figure is indeed correct (and I truly find it hard to believe it true) that is an astonishing difference.
You are going off the total number, rather than the number eligible?
Yes because that is what Sturgeon is claiming has been achieved in Scotland.
And I find that fairly unbelievable.
Absolutely.
I'd be extremely surprised if the sum of all Care residents who (A) refused the vaccine, (B) currently have [or are suspected to have] Covid so can't receive the vaccine yet and (C) are allergic to or otherwise incapable of receiving the vaccine . . . are all combined less than 2%.
Definitely something wrong, unless there's a different approach to consent in Scotland.
What happened with dementia patients in care homes who aren't able/willing to consent? I'd imagine that their nearest relatives would have to be consulted?
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
Labour had the chance, not to change the electorate, but to introduce a fairer way of delivering its representation, having explicitly promised to do so in its manifesto. That Labour reneged on this promise, led astray by the hubris of its false parliamentary majorities, is surely the biggest political misjudgment it has made during our lifetime.
Possibly. Certainly I favour PR and if Labour now cannot win outright, I favour it even more. I think it's probably coming. The country will not tolerate electing Tory governments the whole time. I'd miss the dramatic brutality of FPTP but it really is a bizarre system when you think rationally about it.
Your problem is there is no way the SNP will vote to allow PR - because then they are a side-show at Westminster, rather than the support Labour vitally needs to form a Government.
Actually they've supported voting reform at Westminster for yonks, to the extent of supporting and campaigning for the miserable little compromise. Not quite sure what vital relevance and influence you think they'd be giving up.
The SNP has a fabulous opportunity to get exactly what it wants - if they are propping up a minority Labour Govt. If they get it, then they won't give a damn about PR for the rump UK Parliament. But they would be idiots to agree it in advance of that - whatever their prior position has been. And they will not be idiots.
Actually, there's a decent body of evidence floating around at the moment that suggests they might well be idiots.
And that's from a Yes-voting, thus-far-SNP-voting perspective.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
Labour had the chance, not to change the electorate, but to introduce a fairer way of delivering its representation, having explicitly promised to do so in its manifesto. That Labour reneged on this promise, led astray by the hubris of its false parliamentary majorities, is surely the biggest political misjudgment it has made during our lifetime.
Possibly. Certainly I favour PR and if Labour now cannot win outright, I favour it even more. I think it's probably coming. The country will not tolerate electing Tory governments the whole time. I'd miss the dramatic brutality of FPTP but it really is a bizarre system when you think rationally about it.
How exactly do you expect to get to pr if labour can no long win outright they can only win with the snp. That means an independence referendum. That means labour loses power and tories come back in because scotland is now a different country. Even if you pass a law on pr first the tories just go fuck you and repeal it
Starmer is much more popular in Scotland than Boris, hence also much more likely to grant a legal indyref2 than Boris as he is more likely to win it
I want justice for everyone, even Salmond. I would also like a constituent nation of the UK to NOT be so obviously a one-party state, corrupt at the very top
If fixing this fucks Sturgeon and the Nats, at the same time, all the better!
But my desire is still the correct and moral choice
Sorry to break it to you but no one gives a feck what you want or like. Apart from you and your multiple personalities of course.
It is a big problem for Labour, as it was for Dems in the US for most of the last 4 years. And that worked out OK in the end without Biden wrapping himself in the Stars n' Bars.
PENDENT-PUNDIT ALERT!
The Stars n' Bars was the official flag of the Confederate States of America.
This was NOT the famous CSA battle flag aka the Stainless Banner (the one with 13 stars on St Andrew's cross) though that was incorporated into the last version of the official flag.
PR would make it more difficult for the Tories to win outright but also make it impossible for the Labour left to win a majority too, Corbyn would never have come close to a majority in 2017 as he did under PR for example.
PR would just make the LDs kingmakers in almost every general election
Up to a point - you might see the two main parties fragment under an STV system though I suspect there will always be a centre-right bloc of parties and a centre-left bloc as occurs in most parliamentary systems.
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
Labour had the chance, not to change the electorate, but to introduce a fairer way of delivering its representation, having explicitly promised to do so in its manifesto. That Labour reneged on this promise, led astray by the hubris of its false parliamentary majorities, is surely the biggest political misjudgment it has made during our lifetime.
Possibly. Certainly I favour PR and if Labour now cannot win outright, I favour it even more. I think it's probably coming. The country will not tolerate electing Tory governments the whole time. I'd miss the dramatic brutality of FPTP but it really is a bizarre system when you think rationally about it.
Your problem is there is no way the SNP will vote to allow PR - because then they are a side-show at Westminster, rather than the support Labour vitally needs to form a Government.
I was more thinking beyond the mechanics. If FPTP keeps returning pure Tory government on a minority of the vote the "people" will eventually demand a stop to it via electoral reform.
Labour will only be able to come close in the UK, by making a clear and unequivocal statement that they will not work with the SNP after the election. The Tories will keep a clear lead in England otherwise.
PR would make it more difficult for the Tories to win outright but also make it impossible for the Labour left to win a majority too, Corbyn would never have come close to a majority in 2017 as he did under PR for example.
PR would just make the LDs kingmakers in almost every general election
Up to a point - you might see the two main parties fragment under an STV system though I suspect there will always be a centre-right bloc of parties and a centre-left bloc as occurs in most parliamentary systems.
Doesn't have to be with proper reform rather than tinkering round edges
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
Change the electorate! That’ll be a winner!
Yawn. But also not yawn - because Yes. Spot on. Change the electorate. As in move hearts & minds. As in remove scales from eyes.
Labour had the chance, not to change the electorate, but to introduce a fairer way of delivering its representation, having explicitly promised to do so in its manifesto. That Labour reneged on this promise, led astray by the hubris of its false parliamentary majorities, is surely the biggest political misjudgment it has made during our lifetime.
Possibly. Certainly I favour PR and if Labour now cannot win outright, I favour it even more. I think it's probably coming. The country will not tolerate electing Tory governments the whole time. I'd miss the dramatic brutality of FPTP but it really is a bizarre system when you think rationally about it.
Your problem is there is no way the SNP will vote to allow PR - because then they are a side-show at Westminster, rather than the support Labour vitally needs to form a Government.
I was more thinking beyond the mechanics. If FPTP keeps returning pure Tory government on a minority of the vote the "people" will eventually demand a stop to it via electoral reform.
Labour will only be able to come close in the UK, by making a clear and unequivocal statement that they will not work with the SNP after the election. The Tories will keep a clear lead in England otherwise.
The Tories could win a majority in England and Labour still get enough seats to form a government with the SNP
Good for him. If he can bring people on board, and - you know - get rid of someone for poor performance (UvdL), that would be an enormous step forward for the EU.
99.1% visited, so the number vaccinated is probably as high as it is going to get.
But only 80% of residents vaccinated.
If the Scottish figure is indeed correct (and I truly find it hard to believe it true) that is an astonishing difference.
You are going off the total number, rather than the number eligible?
Yes because that is what Sturgeon is claiming has been achieved in Scotland.
And I find that fairly unbelievable.
Look... If Sturgeon says it's wonderful then BBC Scotland will say it's wonderful. So pay attention then "how about getting with the programme? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?"
I have just checked the numbers. It is indeed true.
Scotland has vaccinated 98% of older adult care homes. England has done 81%.
That is an astonishing difference.
They must have really flung the kitchen sink at the initial programme, it would certainly explain why the initial rollout was painstakingly slow.
Impressive to only have 2% who either i) refused, ii) were not suitable, because of pre-existing conditions or recent infection. Truly incredible impressive!
At least we can all agree that 81% (and the mealy mouthed cover up of that figure) is deeply unimpressive.
Can't we?
Er, it's consonant with the 15% of Brits who, apparently, refuse to take the jab. 19% of mega-oldsters say No. Add in cantankerous old gits, or deluded, trembling old cretins, to that 15% and it's easy to get 19%
It's not great news, however
I think Covid might be one case when we have to make jabbing compulsory. This is a fucking plague. It's REALLY NOT THE FLU
I'm a libertarian, generally, but if this disease continuously mutates through the vaccine-refusing minority then we will all be dead and there is no liberty in the grave
It doesn't mean Labour should become more patriotic necessarily. An alternative and superior solution would be for the public to grow up and become less so. The Conservatives would then have the problem. They'd have this more sophisticated and enlightened electorate getting pissed off with them and punishing them at the ballot box for banging on about Britain all the time and constantly waving flags around and implying we are something very special compared to those unfortunate enough to live elsewhere. That's where I hope we're heading once this little bout of Brexit-fueled national populism has blown itself out and people get back to brass tacks.
During the war Labour used the political breathing space to develop a truly radical blueprint for the better society it wanted to see after the war - much of it drawn from inter-war liberal thinking (such as the Beveridge report); securing election in 1945 on the back of this programme, the extent of change it achieved during its first term was breathtaking - the creation of the NHS, the modern welfare state, and the groundbreaking Planning Act.
Where are the signs that anyone on the centre or left of politics is even thinking about the same amount of heavy lifting for the 21st century?
Taking the widest historical view, the left of politics has always concerned itself with the radical changes needed to march society toward a better future (the consequences of such are for another day). Where is such a vision today? If Labour in 2024 simply puts itself forward as a more credible team of technocratic managers than the current lot, they are surely doomed.
I think I agree, Ian. The country wants a vision. Not the same one, obviously and thankfully, but certainly something more than just a return to moderation and competence. The world is really changing fast.
One of the many reasons I could never vote Conservative was the undertone throughout the 1980s that you could only be patriotic if you were a Tory. Being anything other than a Conservative meant you didn't love your country.
That was disgraceful - men like Denis Healey and Michael Foot were patriots to the core. They had a different vision for Britain than the Conservatives but they loved their country every bit as much.
The problem with advocating radical or "bold" solutions is people are often frightened of change. It was clear in 1979 for example Butskellism had failed and we needed something different. In 1997, on the other hand, most people were happy with how thing they were - they just wanted a bit more money on public services and a change from the Conservatives.
The latter sentiment will be true again before too long - Starmer can win but only if he can persuade enough people the Labour Party he leads is a non-socialist party of the centre or centre left, supportive of the individual and small business.
Comments
Thanks
Seems more likely to me that patriotism is more broad than that of populist politicians on the right and how they view it, but you are presuming people who are patriotic must be so in the same way, and that they are duped by those politicians.
Labour dont need to go overboard on flag waving in my view. And they can and should seek to change the country. But they dont need to act like those who say they are patriotic are all sheep of the populist right. Thats just 'eff off and join the Tories' all over again.
Its honestly not hard, i dont know why this issue seems to stir up so much passion.
The Stars n' Bars was the official flag of the Confederate States of America.
This was NOT the famous CSA battle flag aka the Stainless Banner (the one with 13 stars on St Andrew's cross) though that was incorporated into the last version of the official flag.
The US flag is the Stars n' Stripes
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
Participants in the 13-month study will be given the Oxford/AstraZeneca and Pfizer/BioNTech vaccines in different combinations and at different intervals.
So pay attention then "how about getting with the programme? Why don't you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?"
https://twitter.com/mediavenir/status/1357394907464351746?s=21
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9224859/19-Frenchmen-caught-brothel-raid-Spanish-police.html
https://twitter.com/IrvingFisher16/status/1357397770122915842?s=20
https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/trans-europe-express-trains/index.html
To deliver the massive modal shift required, TEE 2.0 will look very different to its luxury predecessor, but a comprehensive and integrated network of frequent high-speed trains has the potential to transform how we travel across Europe over the next three decades.
Golly.
Scottish Nationalists... the clue is in the word.
27 dead in one swoop looks disastrous.
childrenmistresses?I'd be extremely surprised if the sum of all Care residents who (A) refused the vaccine, (B) currently have [or are suspected to have] Covid so can't receive the vaccine yet and (C) are allergic to or otherwise incapable of receiving the vaccine . . . are all combined less than 2%.
Sadly the reality is that getting a fairly coherent working solution with paperwork but a bit of common sense may end up taking an incident to focus minds because so called principles guiding some of the rules aren't principles at all. In all the talk about the fragility of peace, the bureaucrats, by accident or design, have worked a position where people are getting antsy because a lot of it is petty nonsense. Its the consumer market where the problem lies because its visible. A few problems with deliveries and some companies have just knocked it on the head. People notice some goods are not on the shelves. Garden centres have issues because of some crap about GB soil.
My gut is that some sense and also some patience to get the processes right will move things on a lot, but will you get sense? The danger is you wont until its forced on an agenda.
Scotland has vaccinated 98% of older adult care homes. England has done 81%.
That is an astonishing difference.
Harper in parliament got absolutely nowhere with his attempt to push the process.
because
Over 50s
Transmissability report (oh dear)
Cases
Potential low take up
Mutant strains
Or something.
As Sunak opined, the goalposts are moveable at the government's will. There will always be a reason, if they want there to be.
An ex-con? I thought you were solid Labour! Poor show by me on that. Losing my touch.
https://twitter.com/thetimes/status/1357376066944446477
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/full-text-alex-salmond-s-submission-to-the-hamilton-inquiry
I'm still going to double check this again because I still struggle to believe the refused/cannot group is only 2%.
Have the EU demanded they be diverted yet?
https://twitter.com/HTScotPol/status/1357408800748298241?s=20
Can't we?
https://twitter.com/politvidchannel/status/1357406201777016834?s=20
Crowdfund your way out of that......
https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/1357403656342147074?s=20
if labour can only form a government with snp support which is going to happen
a) labour + snp form government
PR Legislation
scottish independence referendum
rump uk general election
or
b) labour + snp form government
PR legislation
general election
scottish independence referendum
It is never going to be B as far as the snp is concerned as if there is a general election they may not get an independence referendum if it goes the wrong way in the general election so being left with A) as soon as the scots go labour is no longer the government and the pr legislation gets repealed
https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/1357401709648216071?s=20
The corbyn style left have been putting their agenda to the country for 50 years and been consistently told no.....maybe they should take a hint
https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1357412332322840578
PR would just make the LDs kingmakers in almost every general election, 2015 the only recent exception when UKIP would have held the balance of power.
Do wonder how the EU and Germany in particular will react if he does push French foreign policy objectives through means that are inaccessible to the EU and Germany.
In Denmark in 1986, they ran a scheme which included cheap accommodation in old houses (think National Trust or English Heritage style properties). Fantastic summer travelling round Denmark and southern Sweden.
Good times...
If fixing this fucks Sturgeon and the Nats, at the same time, all the better!
But my desire is still the correct and moral choice
What happened with dementia patients in care homes who aren't able/willing to consent? I'd imagine that their nearest relatives would have to be consulted?
And that's from a Yes-voting, thus-far-SNP-voting perspective.
Apart from you and your multiple personalities of course.
This I have to say is entertaining, its the sheer spite.
Is he any relation to Irvine Welsh, the fierce Scot Nat, who lives in..... Miami?
It is remarkable how many prominent Scot Nats live about as far away from Scotland as they can.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irvine_Welsh
A trait they share, I readily confess, with some of the wankier Brexiteers
https://twitter.com/NAChristakis/status/1357393800008765444
It's not great news, however
I think Covid might be one case when we have to make jabbing compulsory. This is a fucking plague. It's REALLY NOT THE FLU
I'm a libertarian, generally, but if this disease continuously mutates through the vaccine-refusing minority then we will all be dead and there is no liberty in the grave
That was disgraceful - men like Denis Healey and Michael Foot were patriots to the core. They had a different vision for Britain than the Conservatives but they loved their country every bit as much.
The problem with advocating radical or "bold" solutions is people are often frightened of change. It was clear in 1979 for example Butskellism had failed and we needed something different. In 1997, on the other hand, most people were happy with how thing they were - they just wanted a bit more money on public services and a change from the Conservatives.
The latter sentiment will be true again before too long - Starmer can win but only if he can persuade enough people the Labour Party he leads is a non-socialist party of the centre or centre left, supportive of the individual and small business.