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Total UK vaccinations heading for 10m – politicalbetting.com

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  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Leon said:

    A genuine question, because I'm not an expert on internal SNP politics - even if this inquiry goes against Sturgeon, is it realistic for her to resign/be forced from office?

    If the inquiry finds she lied to parliament the Scottish Government's ministerial code of conduct (which, in the most recent revision, amusingly has a foreward written by one N. Sturgeon) requires her to resign.
    I appreciate that, my point is more whether she would actually need to respect the rules given how dominant she is in her party and how little this whole affair appears to be influencing voting intention. Maybe I'm just being cynical but if she's not going to be forced out by her party then I can't see why she would feel the need to resign, unless there is an absolutely seismic decline in support for the SNP.
    I don't think it is support, she is very popular. As she should be (in a way) she is very good at doing the Calming Mother of the Nation routine, during a crisis. Better than Boris, for sure, he's like your Dad that does care, but is also screwing a buxom barmaid down the local, and has to go to uh sorry yeah um stay safe, uh-huh?

    However. judging by the odd recent behaviour of Sturgeon, and her administration, I suspect she is in very deep legal trouble, and she knows it. She's chucking out decoys, randomly. It smacks of panic.
    We have some extraordinary prosecutions going on in Scotland at the moment of journalists for alleged contempt of court. One was thrown out on a no case to answer basis last month and another is still ongoing. Their sin appears to be expressing sympathy for Salmond. An offence of very poor taste, admittedly, but probably not against the law, even in the brave new Scotland.

    The current one is Craig Murray who has produced some interesting affidavits. He claimed that there were meetings between civil servants who supported Nicola (very much a thing I am afraid, civil service impartiality is a distant memory) and the Crown Office about Salmond's pending prosecution discussing how best to get a conviction. It would be a serious concern if anyone in Crown Office really did take part in such a meeting.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The initial comparison "not 4,650 per 100,000" is a specious. Because nowhere in the world is managing to vaccinate close to 5% of their population a day - not even Israel.

    4,650 per million, on the other hand, is very doable.
    Agreed - that should be the minimum that any first world country should be achieving.
    So what's Trudeau's excuse ?
    Well they had no vaccine deliveries at all this week.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,696
    Serbia decided to get vaccine from China.
    image
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Apparently the last Tsar of Bulgaria, Simeon II, ousted as a child, was later elected Prime Minister.

    Not all over for Charles if we go Republican after all perhaps.

    Wasn't one of the Habsburgs elected as an MEP? Massive fall from grace for the Archduke of Austria, but I suppose you have to make do.
    Not just any Habsburg - former Crown Prince Franz Joseph Otto Robert Maria Anton Karl Max Heinrich Sixtus Xavier Felix Renatus Ludwig Gaetan Pius Ignatius von Habsburg

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Habsburg

    I feel like that name, in itself, is evidence the dynasty had been in place too long.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Dante's descendant seeks to overturn poet's 1302 corruption conviction

    Seven centuries after the poet was found guilty in Florence, Sperello di Serego Alighieri has begun a campaign to clear his ancestor’s name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/dante-descendant-seeks-to-overturn-poets-1302-corruption-conviction

    True story. On a trip to Florence a couple of years ago I had a coffee with a cafe owner and leather goods dealer whose family are mentioned in the Divine Comedy, as being leather goods dealers, in the exact same street - same shop - in Florence where they still sell leather goods today
    In the walled city of Sana'a, Yemen, many of the ancient houses were said to have been in the same ownership fof over a thousand years.

    The city gates of Sana'a were closed at dusk and opened at dawn as late as the 1960's. Whilst Carnaby Street was swinging, the city was shut to all until the morning.
    Now you're just making me nostalgic, MM. First overseas posting as a young Third Secretary. 1982-85.

    While they were working on the Great Mosque, a ceiling collapsed and hundreds of fragments of old Koran's fell down, the oldest dating to the time of Muhammed. I was good friends with Ursula Dreibholz, the curator restoring the fragments.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa_manuscript
  • Serbia decided to get vaccine from China.
    image

    Would quite like to see a version of that with the USA and Israel on as well.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    kle4 said:

    Apparently the last Tsar of Bulgaria, Simeon II, ousted as a child, was later elected Prime Minister.

    Not all over for Charles if we go Republican after all perhaps.

    We have a rather wonderful red velvet-covered coffee-table book on the history of the Bulgarian royalty, personally presented to the Good Lady Wife by Simeon. His father was King Boris III - who played with Hitler to (successfully) save the Bulgarian Jews. He was poisoned by Hitler for his pains.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,696

    Serbia decided to get vaccine from China.
    image

    Would quite like to see a version of that with the USA and Israel on as well.
    You can play around with it here:

    https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
  • Serbia decided to get vaccine from China.
    image

    Would quite like to see a version of that with the USA and Israel on as well.
    You can play around with it here:

    https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
    Thanks!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,436

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356322899364376576?s=21

    The Sindy posters seem to have got into the habit of defending crap.

    The SNP - and Nicola personally - are ballsing up the case for independence.

    Reminds me of the Lib Dem posters desperately trying to make Swinson’s no second ref policy sound plausible.

    It’s a competitive field but if you really believe you too can become a PB Scotch expert.
    You make my point.

    This use of “Scotch” is passive aggressive irony masking an essential realisation that the Nicola is fucking up.
    Yep
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,712
    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The initial comparison "not 4,650 per 100,000" is a specious. Because nowhere in the world is managing to vaccinate close to 5% of their population a day - not even Israel.

    4,650 per million, on the other hand, is very doable.
    Agreed - that should be the minimum that any first world country should be achieving.
    So what's Trudeau's excuse ?
    Well they had no vaccine deliveries at all this week.
    Don't they get all their vaccines from the USA, which also operates an "America First" policy on exports?
  • Serbia decided to get vaccine from China.
    image

    The Serbia - Bulgaria comparison is extreme.

    Its also possible that Serbia is vaccinating more people per day than Russia.
  • https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356322899364376576?s=21

    The Sindy posters seem to have got into the habit of defending crap.

    The SNP - and Nicola personally - are ballsing up the case for independence.

    Reminds me of the Lib Dem posters desperately trying to make Swinson’s no second ref policy sound plausible.

    It’s a competitive field but if you really believe you too can become a PB Scotch expert.
    You make my point.

    This use of “Scotch” is passive aggressive irony masking an essential realisation that the Nicola is fucking up.
    The old ‘you using term x means I’m right’ one two, prime Scotch expert content!
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,866

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356322899364376576?s=21

    The Sindy posters seem to have got into the habit of defending crap.

    The SNP - and Nicola personally - are ballsing up the case for independence.

    Reminds me of the Lib Dem posters desperately trying to make Swinson’s no second ref policy sound plausible.

    It’s a competitive field but if you really believe you too can become a PB Scotch expert.
    You make my point.

    This use of “Scotch” is passive aggressive irony masking an essential realisation that the Nicola is fucking up.
    The old ‘you using term x means I’m right’ one two, prime Scotch expert content!
    400k.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858
    Foxy said:

    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:
    First out the gate and with seriously impressive results to boot, Pfizer do appear to have knocked it out the park. Price and ease of use will presumably see others used a lot, but their product seems damn impressive.
    It does indeed, and easy to adapt to new variants too.

    Those 16 hospitalisations were from a population similar to the adult population of Leicestershire, so half a ward rather than our current 15 wards of Covid-19.

    Slightly worrying though is that despite their vaccinations and a lockdown stricter than ours, their R number remains stubbornly close to 1. This is also from the Jerusalem Post:

    "In recent days, we see that the [R] infection rate stands at more than 0.9 and even rose to 0.95 and 0.96,” he said. “There is a very moderate decrease in the number of serious patients. We are seeing a decrease in the number of new serious patients coming to the hospitals and a very moderate decrease in the total number of serious patients.”

    Mrs Foxy reports that ICU is less stretched than last Monday night. She described last weeks nights as "Hellish".
    There was a definite twitch of panic in Downing Street in late December when it became obvious that it was going to be touch and go whether the NHS could hold on until the vaccine cavalry came over the hill. The relief that it did is palpable and I suspect the modelling indicated that it was by no means a done deal.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356322899364376576?s=21

    The Sindy posters seem to have got into the habit of defending crap.

    The SNP - and Nicola personally - are ballsing up the case for independence.

    Reminds me of the Lib Dem posters desperately trying to make Swinson’s no second ref policy sound plausible.

    It’s a competitive field but if you really believe you too can become a PB Scotch expert.
    You make my point.

    This use of “Scotch” is passive aggressive irony masking an essential realisation that the Nicola is fucking up.
    If TUD using the word 'Scotch' in a passive aggressive way is evidence of Nicola fucking up, she's clearly been fucking up a lot longer than any of us have realised.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The initial comparison "not 4,650 per 100,000" is a specious. Because nowhere in the world is managing to vaccinate close to 5% of their population a day - not even Israel.

    4,650 per million, on the other hand, is very doable.
    Agreed - that should be the minimum that any first world country should be achieving.
    So what's Trudeau's excuse ?
    Probably that it's a devolved Provincial matter.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The initial comparison "not 4,650 per 100,000" is a specious. Because nowhere in the world is managing to vaccinate close to 5% of their population a day - not even Israel.

    4,650 per million, on the other hand, is very doable.
    Agreed - that should be the minimum that any first world country should be achieving.
    So what's Trudeau's excuse ?
    Well they had no vaccine deliveries at all this week.
    Don't they get all their vaccines from the USA, which also operates an "America First" policy on exports?
    They get Pfizer from Europe - and weren't on the EU export exemption list. Not sure about their Moderna doses.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    Serbia decided to get vaccine from China.
    image

    Any coincidence that they are outside of the EU?
  • MaxPB said:

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356322899364376576?s=21

    The Sindy posters seem to have got into the habit of defending crap.

    The SNP - and Nicola personally - are ballsing up the case for independence.

    Reminds me of the Lib Dem posters desperately trying to make Swinson’s no second ref policy sound plausible.

    It’s a competitive field but if you really believe you too can become a PB Scotch expert.
    You make my point.

    This use of “Scotch” is passive aggressive irony masking an essential realisation that the Nicola is fucking up.
    The old ‘you using term x means I’m right’ one two, prime Scotch expert content!
    400k.
    I guess when the Scottish death rate increases from being two thirds of England’s and the case rate one half we should really start to get worried.
  • Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The initial comparison "not 4,650 per 100,000" is a specious. Because nowhere in the world is managing to vaccinate close to 5% of their population a day - not even Israel.

    4,650 per million, on the other hand, is very doable.
    Agreed - that should be the minimum that any first world country should be achieving.
    So what's Trudeau's excuse ?
    Well they had no vaccine deliveries at all this week.
    Don't they get all their vaccines from the USA, which also operates an "America First" policy on exports?
    In which case another country which fucked up by not investing directly in production instead of placing enormous orders for other countries to produce.
  • Fysics_TeacherFysics_Teacher Posts: 6,285
    edited February 2021

    Serbia decided to get vaccine from China.
    image

    Would quite like to see a version of that with the USA and Israel on as well.
    You can play around with it here:

    https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
    Thanks!
    A fuller version then:


  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,712
    Are we really going to repeat last years holiday fiasco? Or is that Sandown Beach?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,866

    MaxPB said:

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356322899364376576?s=21

    The Sindy posters seem to have got into the habit of defending crap.

    The SNP - and Nicola personally - are ballsing up the case for independence.

    Reminds me of the Lib Dem posters desperately trying to make Swinson’s no second ref policy sound plausible.

    It’s a competitive field but if you really believe you too can become a PB Scotch expert.
    You make my point.

    This use of “Scotch” is passive aggressive irony masking an essential realisation that the Nicola is fucking up.
    The old ‘you using term x means I’m right’ one two, prime Scotch expert content!
    400k.
    I guess when the Scottish death rate increases from being two thirds of England’s and the case rate one half we should really start to get worried.
    400k.
  • https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356322899364376576?s=21

    The Sindy posters seem to have got into the habit of defending crap.

    The SNP - and Nicola personally - are ballsing up the case for independence.

    Reminds me of the Lib Dem posters desperately trying to make Swinson’s no second ref policy sound plausible.

    It’s a competitive field but if you really believe you too can become a PB Scotch expert.
    You make my point.

    This use of “Scotch” is passive aggressive irony masking an essential realisation that the Nicola is fucking up.
    If TUD using the word 'Scotch' in a passive aggressive way is evidence of Nicola fucking up, she's clearly been fucking up a lot longer than any of us have realised.
    See, the true Scotch expert would have realised that. Sorry Gardo, you’ve fallen at the first hurdle.
  • Serbia decided to get vaccine from China.
    image

    Would quite like to see a version of that with the USA and Israel on as well.
    You can play around with it here:

    https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
    Thanks!
    A fuller version then:


    What are the Seychelles doing so right?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,858

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356322899364376576?s=21

    The Sindy posters seem to have got into the habit of defending crap.

    The SNP - and Nicola personally - are ballsing up the case for independence.

    Reminds me of the Lib Dem posters desperately trying to make Swinson’s no second ref policy sound plausible.

    It’s a competitive field but if you really believe you too can become a PB Scotch expert.
    You make my point.

    This use of “Scotch” is passive aggressive irony masking an essential realisation that the Nicola is fucking up.
    If TUD using the word 'Scotch' in a passive aggressive way is evidence of Nicola fucking up, she's clearly been fucking up a lot longer than any of us have realised.
    See, the true Scotch expert would have realised that. Sorry Gardo, you’ve fallen at the first hurdle.
    What, that she has been fucking up for longer than people realised? They would indeed.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356322899364376576?s=21

    The Sindy posters seem to have got into the habit of defending crap.

    The SNP - and Nicola personally - are ballsing up the case for independence.

    Reminds me of the Lib Dem posters desperately trying to make Swinson’s no second ref policy sound plausible.

    It’s a competitive field but if you really believe you too can become a PB Scotch expert.
    You make my point.

    This use of “Scotch” is passive aggressive irony masking an essential realisation that the Nicola is fucking up.
    The old ‘you using term x means I’m right’ one two, prime Scotch expert content!
    400k.
    I guess when the Scottish death rate increases from being two thirds of England’s and the case rate one half we should really start to get worried.
    400k.
    At least you’ve moved on from the ‘you’ve got to put the numbers in context, apply certain criteria and close one eye, then you’ll get the true figures’ bleating.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,866

    MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356322899364376576?s=21

    The Sindy posters seem to have got into the habit of defending crap.

    The SNP - and Nicola personally - are ballsing up the case for independence.

    Reminds me of the Lib Dem posters desperately trying to make Swinson’s no second ref policy sound plausible.

    It’s a competitive field but if you really believe you too can become a PB Scotch expert.
    You make my point.

    This use of “Scotch” is passive aggressive irony masking an essential realisation that the Nicola is fucking up.
    The old ‘you using term x means I’m right’ one two, prime Scotch expert content!
    400k.
    I guess when the Scottish death rate increases from being two thirds of England’s and the case rate one half we should really start to get worried.
    400k.
    At least you’ve moved on from the ‘you’ve got to put the numbers in context, apply certain criteria and close one eye, then you’ll get the true figures’ bleating.
    400k.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400

    Serbia decided to get vaccine from China.
    image

    Would quite like to see a version of that with the USA and Israel on as well.
    You can play around with it here:

    https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations
    Thanks!
    A fuller version then:


    What are the Seychelles doing so right?
    They want to have all the rich tourists when flights resume.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited February 2021
    This spat over the vaccination rate/death rate between Scotland and other parts of the UK is really depressing to me, even more than the natural instinct toward league tabling generally. The hyper defensiveness masked with passive aggression or almost salacious wondering of political consequences to the ones doing worse on either measure is dispiriting. It's made me realise, though I thought I was on the right side of the line, that I've been a bit of a dick over Europe's situation, almost happy they were doing less well as it made our situation look better. Unedifying realisation.
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    edited February 2021
    duplicate
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Leon said:
    Amusing typo though

    “The victors right history”

    In a sense they do, I suppose
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758

    Pulpstar said:

    Now that every care home resident & staff has been offered a jab, I wonder what the overall take up has been. You can't force the needle into anyone's arm (Wellyou can but it'd be assault).
    Residents/staff split ?

    ‘Offered a jab’ smells a bit whiffy in the context of a target of all care home residents to be vaccinated by the end of January. I believe the original target was the 24th but it turns out that was an ‘expectation’ not a target.
    I think offered solely in the context in care homes is deliberate.

    One thing you find is that plenty of care home residents have dementia and other memory problems, which makes them very resistant (and often violent) to those 'strangers' trying to inject them.

    As Pulpstar says you cannot force an injection into someone resisting.

    But according to my father's colleague, enough jabs have been made available to vaccinate every care home resident and staff.
    No but there really should be a debate about whether it should be a requirement to work in healthcare, especially amongst the elderly and most frail.
    I agree.
    Doesnt the debate simply go something like this:

    Managers - It would be great if everyone can be vaccinated, lets make it mandatory.
    Care workers who dont believe in vaccination - In which case your minimum wage pay for a hugely stressful job is not worth it, you can add our resignations to the existing staff shortages
    Managers - Govt please can we have more cash to attract and retain staff
    Govt - No, but we will eventually do a review of care home funding, just as soon as we are no longer in charge
    Managers - In which case staff can do whatever they please
    Agency usage in the sector is at an all time low thanks to the collapse of retail
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    TimT said:

    RobD said:

    We ought to know what the refusal rates are. I very much hope the figures we are getting are for vaccine completions not offerings.

    Very low if that link is anything to go by. And the figures we are getting each day are actual vaccines administered.
    The link implies very high rates for the residents, and disappointingly low for the staff for a number of reasons, including three reasons for those wanting but not getting the jab:
    1. not enough vaccines brought by the vaccination team for both residents and staff
    2. shift staff not present during the visit, unable to get rescheduled
    3. had COVID within 28 days of visit

    Interestingly, the only reason given for refusal was other medical condition. The article does not mention people refusing on the basis of being anti-vaccination for whatever reason.
    I read somewhere that 20% of Carr home staff are refuseniks
  • DavidL said:

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356322899364376576?s=21

    The Sindy posters seem to have got into the habit of defending crap.

    The SNP - and Nicola personally - are ballsing up the case for independence.

    Reminds me of the Lib Dem posters desperately trying to make Swinson’s no second ref policy sound plausible.

    It’s a competitive field but if you really believe you too can become a PB Scotch expert.
    You make my point.

    This use of “Scotch” is passive aggressive irony masking an essential realisation that the Nicola is fucking up.
    If TUD using the word 'Scotch' in a passive aggressive way is evidence of Nicola fucking up, she's clearly been fucking up a lot longer than any of us have realised.
    See, the true Scotch expert would have realised that. Sorry Gardo, you’ve fallen at the first hurdle.
    What, that she has been fucking up for longer than people realised? They would indeed.
    At least Sturgeon didn’t fuck up by listening to the people moaning that she wasn’t letting Edinburgh’s bars and restaurants let rip for Christmas. What a corker of a fuck up that would have been...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,712
    Charles said:

    TimT said:

    RobD said:

    We ought to know what the refusal rates are. I very much hope the figures we are getting are for vaccine completions not offerings.

    Very low if that link is anything to go by. And the figures we are getting each day are actual vaccines administered.
    The link implies very high rates for the residents, and disappointingly low for the staff for a number of reasons, including three reasons for those wanting but not getting the jab:
    1. not enough vaccines brought by the vaccination team for both residents and staff
    2. shift staff not present during the visit, unable to get rescheduled
    3. had COVID within 28 days of visit

    Interestingly, the only reason given for refusal was other medical condition. The article does not mention people refusing on the basis of being anti-vaccination for whatever reason.
    I read somewhere that 20% of Carr home staff are refuseniks
    I think about the same with our staff. My usually very sane fifty something reception clerk, and two Consultant colleagues amongst them.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Dante's descendant seeks to overturn poet's 1302 corruption conviction

    Seven centuries after the poet was found guilty in Florence, Sperello di Serego Alighieri has begun a campaign to clear his ancestor’s name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/dante-descendant-seeks-to-overturn-poets-1302-corruption-conviction

    True story. On a trip to Florence a couple of years ago I had a coffee with a cafe owner and leather goods dealer whose family are mentioned in the Divine Comedy, as being leather goods dealers, in the exact same street - same shop - in Florence where they still sell leather goods today
    In the walled city of Sana'a, Yemen, many of the ancient houses were said to have been in the same ownership fof over a thousand years.

    The city gates of Sana'a were closed at dusk and opened at dawn as late as the 1960's. Whilst Carnaby Street was swinging, the city was shut to all until the morning.
    Now you're just making me nostalgic, MM. First overseas posting as a young Third Secretary. 1982-85.

    While they were working on the Great Mosque, a ceiling collapsed and hundreds of fragments of old Koran's fell down, the oldest dating to the time of Muhammed. I was good friends with Ursula Dreibholz, the curator restoring the fragments.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa_manuscript
    I loved Sana'a itself - and some of the amazing places outside like the Rock Palace and further afield, al Hajjarah - a hilltop retreat. In the early 90's I could freely walk around the city and the souk, without feeling under any threat at all. Loved it because of all the cities I have ever visited, it was the most alien, the most overtly foreign. So few points of reference common with any other cities on the planet. An occassional car dealership for Mercedes or Toyota - but that was it.

    I have some fabulous photos just of the doors in the old city - doors that were utterly ancient.

    Just tragic what has befallen that country. And because it had the temerity to be a democracy on Saudi's borders....
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,712

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Dante's descendant seeks to overturn poet's 1302 corruption conviction

    Seven centuries after the poet was found guilty in Florence, Sperello di Serego Alighieri has begun a campaign to clear his ancestor’s name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/dante-descendant-seeks-to-overturn-poets-1302-corruption-conviction

    True story. On a trip to Florence a couple of years ago I had a coffee with a cafe owner and leather goods dealer whose family are mentioned in the Divine Comedy, as being leather goods dealers, in the exact same street - same shop - in Florence where they still sell leather goods today
    In the walled city of Sana'a, Yemen, many of the ancient houses were said to have been in the same ownership fof over a thousand years.

    The city gates of Sana'a were closed at dusk and opened at dawn as late as the 1960's. Whilst Carnaby Street was swinging, the city was shut to all until the morning.
    Now you're just making me nostalgic, MM. First overseas posting as a young Third Secretary. 1982-85.

    While they were working on the Great Mosque, a ceiling collapsed and hundreds of fragments of old Koran's fell down, the oldest dating to the time of Muhammed. I was good friends with Ursula Dreibholz, the curator restoring the fragments.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa_manuscript
    I loved Sana'a itself - and some of the amazing places outside like the Rock Palace and further afield, al Hajjarah - a hilltop retreat. In the early 90's I could freely walk around the city and the souk, without feeling under any threat at all. Loved it because of all the cities I have ever visited, it was the most alien, the most overtly foreign. So few points of reference common with any other cities on the planet. An occassional car dealership for Mercedes or Toyota - but that was it.

    I have some fabulous photos just of the doors in the old city - doors that were utterly ancient.

    Just tragic what has befallen that country. And because it had the temerity to be a democracy on Saudi's borders....
    And we decided to help and arm the Saudis...
  • I appreciate that, my point is more whether she would actually need to respect the rules given how dominant she is in her party and how little this whole affair appears to be influencing voting intention. Maybe I'm just being cynical but if she's not going to be forced out by her party then I can't see why she would feel the need to resign, unless there is an absolutely seismic decline in support for the SNP.

    If she refused to resign I think she'd still be gone in short order. The pro-Salmond wing would boot her out in a heartbeat and it wouldn't take too many of her own supporters to turn and it would be all over.

    A few weeks of every press conference being journalists asking "First Minister, you lied to partliment in breach of the ministerial code. Why haven't you resigned?". Every SNP MP and MSP would barraged with the same question - do you support your lying leader?

    I can't see even the SNP putting up with that for long.

    My personal feeling is Sturgeon is already planing to go and recent moves like the sacking of Joanna Cherry are intended to ensure no plausible pro-Salmond candidate is left to contest the leadership once Sturgeon is gone.

  • Foxy said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Dante's descendant seeks to overturn poet's 1302 corruption conviction

    Seven centuries after the poet was found guilty in Florence, Sperello di Serego Alighieri has begun a campaign to clear his ancestor’s name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/dante-descendant-seeks-to-overturn-poets-1302-corruption-conviction

    True story. On a trip to Florence a couple of years ago I had a coffee with a cafe owner and leather goods dealer whose family are mentioned in the Divine Comedy, as being leather goods dealers, in the exact same street - same shop - in Florence where they still sell leather goods today
    In the walled city of Sana'a, Yemen, many of the ancient houses were said to have been in the same ownership fof over a thousand years.

    The city gates of Sana'a were closed at dusk and opened at dawn as late as the 1960's. Whilst Carnaby Street was swinging, the city was shut to all until the morning.
    Now you're just making me nostalgic, MM. First overseas posting as a young Third Secretary. 1982-85.

    While they were working on the Great Mosque, a ceiling collapsed and hundreds of fragments of old Koran's fell down, the oldest dating to the time of Muhammed. I was good friends with Ursula Dreibholz, the curator restoring the fragments.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa_manuscript
    I loved Sana'a itself - and some of the amazing places outside like the Rock Palace and further afield, al Hajjarah - a hilltop retreat. In the early 90's I could freely walk around the city and the souk, without feeling under any threat at all. Loved it because of all the cities I have ever visited, it was the most alien, the most overtly foreign. So few points of reference common with any other cities on the planet. An occassional car dealership for Mercedes or Toyota - but that was it.

    I have some fabulous photos just of the doors in the old city - doors that were utterly ancient.

    Just tragic what has befallen that country. And because it had the temerity to be a democracy on Saudi's borders....
    And we decided to help and arm the Saudis...
    I believe Yemen is about to be hit by a second wave of Covid. Perhaps all the piety about how the UK is going to be really generous with its hoarded vaccines at some indeterminate point in the future could be directed at the countries they’ve helped fuck up, if that’s not too long a list.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Dante's descendant seeks to overturn poet's 1302 corruption conviction

    Seven centuries after the poet was found guilty in Florence, Sperello di Serego Alighieri has begun a campaign to clear his ancestor’s name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/dante-descendant-seeks-to-overturn-poets-1302-corruption-conviction

    True story. On a trip to Florence a couple of years ago I had a coffee with a cafe owner and leather goods dealer whose family are mentioned in the Divine Comedy, as being leather goods dealers, in the exact same street - same shop - in Florence where they still sell leather goods today
    In the walled city of Sana'a, Yemen, many of the ancient houses were said to have been in the same ownership fof over a thousand years.

    The city gates of Sana'a were closed at dusk and opened at dawn as late as the 1960's. Whilst Carnaby Street was swinging, the city was shut to all until the morning.
    Now you're just making me nostalgic, MM. First overseas posting as a young Third Secretary. 1982-85.

    While they were working on the Great Mosque, a ceiling collapsed and hundreds of fragments of old Koran's fell down, the oldest dating to the time of Muhammed. I was good friends with Ursula Dreibholz, the curator restoring the fragments.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa_manuscript
    I've never been anywhere interesting but my mum visited Kabul in 1969 when female university students used to walk around the campus wearing western clothes.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    Foxy said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Dante's descendant seeks to overturn poet's 1302 corruption conviction

    Seven centuries after the poet was found guilty in Florence, Sperello di Serego Alighieri has begun a campaign to clear his ancestor’s name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/dante-descendant-seeks-to-overturn-poets-1302-corruption-conviction

    True story. On a trip to Florence a couple of years ago I had a coffee with a cafe owner and leather goods dealer whose family are mentioned in the Divine Comedy, as being leather goods dealers, in the exact same street - same shop - in Florence where they still sell leather goods today
    In the walled city of Sana'a, Yemen, many of the ancient houses were said to have been in the same ownership fof over a thousand years.

    The city gates of Sana'a were closed at dusk and opened at dawn as late as the 1960's. Whilst Carnaby Street was swinging, the city was shut to all until the morning.
    Now you're just making me nostalgic, MM. First overseas posting as a young Third Secretary. 1982-85.

    While they were working on the Great Mosque, a ceiling collapsed and hundreds of fragments of old Koran's fell down, the oldest dating to the time of Muhammed. I was good friends with Ursula Dreibholz, the curator restoring the fragments.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa_manuscript
    I loved Sana'a itself - and some of the amazing places outside like the Rock Palace and further afield, al Hajjarah - a hilltop retreat. In the early 90's I could freely walk around the city and the souk, without feeling under any threat at all. Loved it because of all the cities I have ever visited, it was the most alien, the most overtly foreign. So few points of reference common with any other cities on the planet. An occassional car dealership for Mercedes or Toyota - but that was it.

    I have some fabulous photos just of the doors in the old city - doors that were utterly ancient.

    Just tragic what has befallen that country. And because it had the temerity to be a democracy on Saudi's borders....
    And we decided to help and arm the Saudis...
    Yemen's great misfortune is to be the Belgium of the Middle East - the neutral ground for a fixture between Iran and the Saudis.

    The value of Saudi arms deals has been too tempting to parties of all flavours.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/court-condemns-blair-for-halting-saudi-arms-inquiry-807793.html
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    JonathanD said:

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The initial comparison "not 4,650 per 100,000" is a specious. Because nowhere in the world is managing to vaccinate close to 5% of their population a day - not even Israel.

    4,650 per million, on the other hand, is very doable.
    Agreed - that should be the minimum that any first world country should be achieving.
    So what's Trudeau's excuse ?
    Well they had no vaccine deliveries at all this week.
    Don't they get all their vaccines from the USA, which also operates an "America First" policy on exports?
    They get Pfizer from Europe - and weren't on the EU export exemption list. Not sure about their Moderna doses.
    Are you sure? I thought the contracting entity was Pfizer North America, which means they'd be unlikely (although it's not impossible) for them to import from Belgium
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,410
    edited February 2021

    Foxy said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Dante's descendant seeks to overturn poet's 1302 corruption conviction

    Seven centuries after the poet was found guilty in Florence, Sperello di Serego Alighieri has begun a campaign to clear his ancestor’s name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/dante-descendant-seeks-to-overturn-poets-1302-corruption-conviction

    True story. On a trip to Florence a couple of years ago I had a coffee with a cafe owner and leather goods dealer whose family are mentioned in the Divine Comedy, as being leather goods dealers, in the exact same street - same shop - in Florence where they still sell leather goods today
    In the walled city of Sana'a, Yemen, many of the ancient houses were said to have been in the same ownership fof over a thousand years.

    The city gates of Sana'a were closed at dusk and opened at dawn as late as the 1960's. Whilst Carnaby Street was swinging, the city was shut to all until the morning.
    Now you're just making me nostalgic, MM. First overseas posting as a young Third Secretary. 1982-85.

    While they were working on the Great Mosque, a ceiling collapsed and hundreds of fragments of old Koran's fell down, the oldest dating to the time of Muhammed. I was good friends with Ursula Dreibholz, the curator restoring the fragments.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa_manuscript
    I loved Sana'a itself - and some of the amazing places outside like the Rock Palace and further afield, al Hajjarah - a hilltop retreat. In the early 90's I could freely walk around the city and the souk, without feeling under any threat at all. Loved it because of all the cities I have ever visited, it was the most alien, the most overtly foreign. So few points of reference common with any other cities on the planet. An occassional car dealership for Mercedes or Toyota - but that was it.

    I have some fabulous photos just of the doors in the old city - doors that were utterly ancient.

    Just tragic what has befallen that country. And because it had the temerity to be a democracy on Saudi's borders....
    And we decided to help and arm the Saudis...
    Yemen's great misfortune is to be the Belgium of the Middle East - the neutral ground for a fixture between Iran and the Saudis.

    The value of Saudi arms deals has been too tempting to parties of all flavours.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/court-condemns-blair-for-halting-saudi-arms-inquiry-807793.html
    Surely its great misfortune is a lack of oil?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209

    Serbia decided to get vaccine from China.
    image

    The Serbia - Bulgaria comparison is extreme.

    Its also possible that Serbia is vaccinating more people per day than Russia.
    Romania was vaccinating more people a day than Russia last week, so that is far from impossible.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Dante's descendant seeks to overturn poet's 1302 corruption conviction

    Seven centuries after the poet was found guilty in Florence, Sperello di Serego Alighieri has begun a campaign to clear his ancestor’s name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/dante-descendant-seeks-to-overturn-poets-1302-corruption-conviction

    True story. On a trip to Florence a couple of years ago I had a coffee with a cafe owner and leather goods dealer whose family are mentioned in the Divine Comedy, as being leather goods dealers, in the exact same street - same shop - in Florence where they still sell leather goods today
    In the walled city of Sana'a, Yemen, many of the ancient houses were said to have been in the same ownership fof over a thousand years.

    The city gates of Sana'a were closed at dusk and opened at dawn as late as the 1960's. Whilst Carnaby Street was swinging, the city was shut to all until the morning.
    Now you're just making me nostalgic, MM. First overseas posting as a young Third Secretary. 1982-85.

    While they were working on the Great Mosque, a ceiling collapsed and hundreds of fragments of old Koran's fell down, the oldest dating to the time of Muhammed. I was good friends with Ursula Dreibholz, the curator restoring the fragments.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa_manuscript
    I loved Sana'a itself - and some of the amazing places outside like the Rock Palace and further afield, al Hajjarah - a hilltop retreat. In the early 90's I could freely walk around the city and the souk, without feeling under any threat at all. Loved it because of all the cities I have ever visited, it was the most alien, the most overtly foreign. So few points of reference common with any other cities on the planet. An occassional car dealership for Mercedes or Toyota - but that was it.

    I have some fabulous photos just of the doors in the old city - doors that were utterly ancient.

    Just tragic what has befallen that country. And because it had the temerity to be a democracy on Saudi's borders....
    If you thought Sana'a was alien, it is a shame you did not get to Wadi Jawf (the ancient ruins of the walled city of Baraqish surrounded by a desert plane of tamarind trees fed by an underground river) and the mountain range north of that, Jabal Barat. Now that is a landscape out of Tolkien, with a bizarre architecture to go with it.

    And did you get to any of the Ithna'shar villages built on top of the mountain peaks to defend against persecution. Al Hutaib is a great example.

    https://in.pinterest.com/pin/504895808219366289/
  • JonathanDJonathanD Posts: 2,400
    edited February 2021
    rcs1000 said:

    JonathanD said:

    Foxy said:

    RobD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The initial comparison "not 4,650 per 100,000" is a specious. Because nowhere in the world is managing to vaccinate close to 5% of their population a day - not even Israel.

    4,650 per million, on the other hand, is very doable.
    Agreed - that should be the minimum that any first world country should be achieving.
    So what's Trudeau's excuse ?
    Well they had no vaccine deliveries at all this week.
    Don't they get all their vaccines from the USA, which also operates an "America First" policy on exports?
    They get Pfizer from Europe - and weren't on the EU export exemption list. Not sure about their Moderna doses.
    Are you sure? I thought the contracting entity was Pfizer North America, which means they'd be unlikely (although it's not impossible) for them to import from Belgium

    Possibly there was some concern about Orange Man trying to prevent exports from the US?

    "OTTAWA—Vaccine deliveries will come to a screeching halt next week as pharmaceutical giant Pfizer slashes shipments to Canada to zero while it retools its Belgium plant to expand production."

    https://www.thestar.com/politics/federal/2021/01/19/canada-will-not-receive-any-of-its-promised-covid-19-vaccines-from-pfizer-next-week.html


    And dissapointing that UVL didn't come out with this bit of poetry last week

    "“I’d be up that guy’s ying-yang so far with a firecracker he wouldn’t know what hit him, I would not stop until we get these vaccines,” Ford told a news conference at Queen’s Park."
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    “Why the European Commission failed the vaccine challenge
    Brussels bureaucrats lacked the necessary expertise in health and procurement
    GIDEON RACHMAN“

    https://www.ft.com/content/6bd192b4-6f7a-4df1-a484-1853bb054ba5
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Dante's descendant seeks to overturn poet's 1302 corruption conviction

    Seven centuries after the poet was found guilty in Florence, Sperello di Serego Alighieri has begun a campaign to clear his ancestor’s name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/dante-descendant-seeks-to-overturn-poets-1302-corruption-conviction

    True story. On a trip to Florence a couple of years ago I had a coffee with a cafe owner and leather goods dealer whose family are mentioned in the Divine Comedy, as being leather goods dealers, in the exact same street - same shop - in Florence where they still sell leather goods today
    In the walled city of Sana'a, Yemen, many of the ancient houses were said to have been in the same ownership fof over a thousand years.

    The city gates of Sana'a were closed at dusk and opened at dawn as late as the 1960's. Whilst Carnaby Street was swinging, the city was shut to all until the morning.
    Now you're just making me nostalgic, MM. First overseas posting as a young Third Secretary. 1982-85.

    While they were working on the Great Mosque, a ceiling collapsed and hundreds of fragments of old Koran's fell down, the oldest dating to the time of Muhammed. I was good friends with Ursula Dreibholz, the curator restoring the fragments.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa_manuscript
    I loved Sana'a itself - and some of the amazing places outside like the Rock Palace and further afield, al Hajjarah - a hilltop retreat. In the early 90's I could freely walk around the city and the souk, without feeling under any threat at all. Loved it because of all the cities I have ever visited, it was the most alien, the most overtly foreign. So few points of reference common with any other cities on the planet. An occassional car dealership for Mercedes or Toyota - but that was it.

    I have some fabulous photos just of the doors in the old city - doors that were utterly ancient.

    Just tragic what has befallen that country. And because it had the temerity to be a democracy on Saudi's borders....
    And we decided to help and arm the Saudis...
    Yemen's great misfortune is to be the Belgium of the Middle East - the neutral ground for a fixture between Iran and the Saudis.

    The value of Saudi arms deals has been too tempting to parties of all flavours.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/court-condemns-blair-for-halting-saudi-arms-inquiry-807793.html
    Surely its great misfortune is a lack of oil?
    They have a modest amount of oil and humungous amounts of natural gas.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    TimT said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Dante's descendant seeks to overturn poet's 1302 corruption conviction

    Seven centuries after the poet was found guilty in Florence, Sperello di Serego Alighieri has begun a campaign to clear his ancestor’s name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/dante-descendant-seeks-to-overturn-poets-1302-corruption-conviction

    True story. On a trip to Florence a couple of years ago I had a coffee with a cafe owner and leather goods dealer whose family are mentioned in the Divine Comedy, as being leather goods dealers, in the exact same street - same shop - in Florence where they still sell leather goods today
    In the walled city of Sana'a, Yemen, many of the ancient houses were said to have been in the same ownership fof over a thousand years.

    The city gates of Sana'a were closed at dusk and opened at dawn as late as the 1960's. Whilst Carnaby Street was swinging, the city was shut to all until the morning.
    Now you're just making me nostalgic, MM. First overseas posting as a young Third Secretary. 1982-85.

    While they were working on the Great Mosque, a ceiling collapsed and hundreds of fragments of old Koran's fell down, the oldest dating to the time of Muhammed. I was good friends with Ursula Dreibholz, the curator restoring the fragments.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa_manuscript
    I loved Sana'a itself - and some of the amazing places outside like the Rock Palace and further afield, al Hajjarah - a hilltop retreat. In the early 90's I could freely walk around the city and the souk, without feeling under any threat at all. Loved it because of all the cities I have ever visited, it was the most alien, the most overtly foreign. So few points of reference common with any other cities on the planet. An occassional car dealership for Mercedes or Toyota - but that was it.

    I have some fabulous photos just of the doors in the old city - doors that were utterly ancient.

    Just tragic what has befallen that country. And because it had the temerity to be a democracy on Saudi's borders....
    If you thought Sana'a was alien, it is a shame you did not get to Wadi Jawf (the ancient ruins of the walled city of Baraqish surrounded by a desert plane of tamarind trees fed by an underground river) and the mountain range north of that, Jabal Barat. Now that is a landscape out of Tolkien, with a bizarre architecture to go with it.

    And did you get to any of the Ithna'shar villages built on top of the mountain peaks to defend against persecution. Al Hutaib is a great example.

    https://in.pinterest.com/pin/504895808219366289/
    I flew over the mud skyscrapers of Shibam in a Cessna - that was special!

    I was in Sana'a negotiating a contract that ran up to Christmas. They knew we wanted to leave, but we played it cool. "Hey, if we have to stay, we have to stay..." In the end we did the deal , had a signing in front of the TV cameras with the President - and then had to go back to the Ministry to finish the documents - the President had signed a front sheet and a signature page with about 150 sheets of blank A4 between! So we knew we kinda had them.

    We were booked on the last plane out before Christmas. Lufthansa - 2.00 am. One of our guys left his passport in a jacket, so we had to go back. Roadblocks, all that nonsense. Anyway, we get to the Lufthansa desk, hand over our tickets. The German looks at our tickets and says. "Ze flight closed at 1.00 am. It is now " - looking at his watch in exaggerated fashion "1.01." And pushed our tickets back.

    Our agent, a tiny guy called Abdullah, was literally standing on the check-in desk pointing down at this German, screaming at him. But he was having none of it. "Ze gate is closed. And get off my desk!"

    So, as Abdullah disappeared, we look at each other and think "Shit. We have to tell our wives and partners we are spending Christmas here..." The German is looking oh so smug. About 1.30, Abdullah returns. With him is an equally tiny guy. But he has medal ribbons down to his knees. He looks at the German and simply says "These people. On this flight. Or it does not leave...." Somehow, at dead of night, Abdullah had found his fellow tribesman, the head of the AIr Force. Of course, what we then knew was the German had to back down - or spend Christmas in Sana'a with us....

    Oh, the joy of watching him hand us our boarding passes.....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited February 2021
    Andy_JS said:

    “Why the European Commission failed the vaccine challenge
    Brussels bureaucrats lacked the necessary expertise in health and procurement
    GIDEON RACHMAN“

    https://www.ft.com/content/6bd192b4-6f7a-4df1-a484-1853bb054ba5

    The various links from FT and BBC still don't tell the full story...they didn't invest anywhere near enough, they often only guaranteed loans, they wouldn't pay upfront and they weren't willing to cut the drug companies any slack when it came to legal redress if anything went wrong.

    All while expecting them to develop and manufacture a novel vaccine at warp speed, never seen before in the history of the world.

    Its like only being prepared to pay Ryanair prices for a flight and being pissed off that you get a crap seat by some screaming kid while the 20st bloke in front reclines his all the way and you find that when you get there your airport is the one that requires a 2hr bus journey to get to the city centre.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Dante's descendant seeks to overturn poet's 1302 corruption conviction

    Seven centuries after the poet was found guilty in Florence, Sperello di Serego Alighieri has begun a campaign to clear his ancestor’s name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/dante-descendant-seeks-to-overturn-poets-1302-corruption-conviction

    True story. On a trip to Florence a couple of years ago I had a coffee with a cafe owner and leather goods dealer whose family are mentioned in the Divine Comedy, as being leather goods dealers, in the exact same street - same shop - in Florence where they still sell leather goods today
    In the walled city of Sana'a, Yemen, many of the ancient houses were said to have been in the same ownership fof over a thousand years.

    The city gates of Sana'a were closed at dusk and opened at dawn as late as the 1960's. Whilst Carnaby Street was swinging, the city was shut to all until the morning.
    Now you're just making me nostalgic, MM. First overseas posting as a young Third Secretary. 1982-85.

    While they were working on the Great Mosque, a ceiling collapsed and hundreds of fragments of old Koran's fell down, the oldest dating to the time of Muhammed. I was good friends with Ursula Dreibholz, the curator restoring the fragments.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa_manuscript
    I loved Sana'a itself - and some of the amazing places outside like the Rock Palace and further afield, al Hajjarah - a hilltop retreat. In the early 90's I could freely walk around the city and the souk, without feeling under any threat at all. Loved it because of all the cities I have ever visited, it was the most alien, the most overtly foreign. So few points of reference common with any other cities on the planet. An occassional car dealership for Mercedes or Toyota - but that was it.

    I have some fabulous photos just of the doors in the old city - doors that were utterly ancient.

    Just tragic what has befallen that country. And because it had the temerity to be a democracy on Saudi's borders....
    And we decided to help and arm the Saudis...
    Yemen's great misfortune is to be the Belgium of the Middle East - the neutral ground for a fixture between Iran and the Saudis.

    The value of Saudi arms deals has been too tempting to parties of all flavours.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/court-condemns-blair-for-halting-saudi-arms-inquiry-807793.html
    Surely its great misfortune is a lack of oil?
    The Saudis has been messing with the Yemen economy since it unified. They'd send guys in to buy all the goats and compeltely mess up the prices, so Yemenis couldn't afford them. Things like that.

    And then the Yemenis had a huge problem come 9/11. Many supported al-Qaeda. So vast numbers of Yemeni migrant workers, who remitted most of their earnings home to their families, got expelled from Saudi. The economy tanked - and their problems really started.

    Yemen is a case study of how a reunified country can go horribly wrong.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    I'd guess that less than 20,000 British people under 50 have visited Sana'a.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    Andy_JS said:

    I'd guess that less than 20,000 British people under 50 have visited Sana'a.

    If that.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600

    Andy_JS said:

    “Why the European Commission failed the vaccine challenge
    Brussels bureaucrats lacked the necessary expertise in health and procurement
    GIDEON RACHMAN“

    https://www.ft.com/content/6bd192b4-6f7a-4df1-a484-1853bb054ba5

    The various links from FT and BBC still don't tell the full story...they didn't invest anywhere near enough, they often only guaranteed loans, they wouldn't pay upfront and they weren't willing to cut the drug companies any slack when it came to legal redress if anything went wrong.

    All while expecting them to develop and manufacture a novel vaccine at warp speed, never seen before in the history of the world.

    Its like only being prepared to pay Ryanair prices for a flight and being pissed off that you get a crap seat by some screaming kid while the 20st bloke in front reclines his all the way and you find that when you get there your airport is the one that requires a 2hr bus journey to get to the city centre.
    As Concorde glides past, flying those Union Jack colours, and with a pointed nose that looks it could administer the vaccine.....
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    Andy_JS said:

    “Why the European Commission failed the vaccine challenge
    Brussels bureaucrats lacked the necessary expertise in health and procurement
    GIDEON RACHMAN“

    https://www.ft.com/content/6bd192b4-6f7a-4df1-a484-1853bb054ba5

    The various links from FT and BBC still don't tell the full story...they didn't invest anywhere near enough, they often only guaranteed loans, they wouldn't pay upfront and they weren't willing to cut the drug companies any slack when it came to legal redress if anything went wrong.

    All while expecting them to develop and manufacture a novel vaccine at warp speed, never seen before in the history of the world.

    Its like only being prepared to pay Ryanair prices for a flight and being pissed off that you get a crap seat by some screaming kid while the 20st bloke in front reclines his all the way and you find that when you get there your airport is the one that requires a 2hr bus journey to get to the city centre.
    As Concorde glides past, flying those Union Jack colours, and with a pointed nose that looks it could administer the vaccine.....
    What happened to the French one? ;)
  • RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “Why the European Commission failed the vaccine challenge
    Brussels bureaucrats lacked the necessary expertise in health and procurement
    GIDEON RACHMAN“

    https://www.ft.com/content/6bd192b4-6f7a-4df1-a484-1853bb054ba5

    The various links from FT and BBC still don't tell the full story...they didn't invest anywhere near enough, they often only guaranteed loans, they wouldn't pay upfront and they weren't willing to cut the drug companies any slack when it came to legal redress if anything went wrong.

    All while expecting them to develop and manufacture a novel vaccine at warp speed, never seen before in the history of the world.

    Its like only being prepared to pay Ryanair prices for a flight and being pissed off that you get a crap seat by some screaming kid while the 20st bloke in front reclines his all the way and you find that when you get there your airport is the one that requires a 2hr bus journey to get to the city centre.
    As Concorde glides past, flying those Union Jack colours, and with a pointed nose that looks it could administer the vaccine.....
    What happened to the French one? ;)
    Only flies once a week.
  • RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “Why the European Commission failed the vaccine challenge
    Brussels bureaucrats lacked the necessary expertise in health and procurement
    GIDEON RACHMAN“

    https://www.ft.com/content/6bd192b4-6f7a-4df1-a484-1853bb054ba5

    The various links from FT and BBC still don't tell the full story...they didn't invest anywhere near enough, they often only guaranteed loans, they wouldn't pay upfront and they weren't willing to cut the drug companies any slack when it came to legal redress if anything went wrong.

    All while expecting them to develop and manufacture a novel vaccine at warp speed, never seen before in the history of the world.

    Its like only being prepared to pay Ryanair prices for a flight and being pissed off that you get a crap seat by some screaming kid while the 20st bloke in front reclines his all the way and you find that when you get there your airport is the one that requires a 2hr bus journey to get to the city centre.
    As Concorde glides past, flying those Union Jack colours, and with a pointed nose that looks it could administer the vaccine.....
    What happened to the French one? ;)
    Classy.


  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    edited February 2021

    RobD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    “Why the European Commission failed the vaccine challenge
    Brussels bureaucrats lacked the necessary expertise in health and procurement
    GIDEON RACHMAN“

    https://www.ft.com/content/6bd192b4-6f7a-4df1-a484-1853bb054ba5

    The various links from FT and BBC still don't tell the full story...they didn't invest anywhere near enough, they often only guaranteed loans, they wouldn't pay upfront and they weren't willing to cut the drug companies any slack when it came to legal redress if anything went wrong.

    All while expecting them to develop and manufacture a novel vaccine at warp speed, never seen before in the history of the world.

    Its like only being prepared to pay Ryanair prices for a flight and being pissed off that you get a crap seat by some screaming kid while the 20st bloke in front reclines his all the way and you find that when you get there your airport is the one that requires a 2hr bus journey to get to the city centre.
    As Concorde glides past, flying those Union Jack colours, and with a pointed nose that looks it could administer the vaccine.....
    What happened to the French one? ;)
    Classy.

    That wasn't my intention. Sorry.

    It could have happened to either one.
  • swing_voterswing_voter Posts: 1,464

    dixiedean said:

    Foxy said:

    TimT said:

    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Dante's descendant seeks to overturn poet's 1302 corruption conviction

    Seven centuries after the poet was found guilty in Florence, Sperello di Serego Alighieri has begun a campaign to clear his ancestor’s name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/dante-descendant-seeks-to-overturn-poets-1302-corruption-conviction

    True story. On a trip to Florence a couple of years ago I had a coffee with a cafe owner and leather goods dealer whose family are mentioned in the Divine Comedy, as being leather goods dealers, in the exact same street - same shop - in Florence where they still sell leather goods today
    In the walled city of Sana'a, Yemen, many of the ancient houses were said to have been in the same ownership fof over a thousand years.

    The city gates of Sana'a were closed at dusk and opened at dawn as late as the 1960's. Whilst Carnaby Street was swinging, the city was shut to all until the morning.
    Now you're just making me nostalgic, MM. First overseas posting as a young Third Secretary. 1982-85.

    While they were working on the Great Mosque, a ceiling collapsed and hundreds of fragments of old Koran's fell down, the oldest dating to the time of Muhammed. I was good friends with Ursula Dreibholz, the curator restoring the fragments.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanaa_manuscript
    I loved Sana'a itself - and some of the amazing places outside like the Rock Palace and further afield, al Hajjarah - a hilltop retreat. In the early 90's I could freely walk around the city and the souk, without feeling under any threat at all. Loved it because of all the cities I have ever visited, it was the most alien, the most overtly foreign. So few points of reference common with any other cities on the planet. An occassional car dealership for Mercedes or Toyota - but that was it.

    I have some fabulous photos just of the doors in the old city - doors that were utterly ancient.

    Just tragic what has befallen that country. And because it had the temerity to be a democracy on Saudi's borders....
    And we decided to help and arm the Saudis...
    Yemen's great misfortune is to be the Belgium of the Middle East - the neutral ground for a fixture between Iran and the Saudis.

    The value of Saudi arms deals has been too tempting to parties of all flavours.

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/court-condemns-blair-for-halting-saudi-arms-inquiry-807793.html
    Surely its great misfortune is a lack of oil?
    The Saudis has been messing with the Yemen economy since it unified. They'd send guys in to buy all the goats and compeltely mess up the prices, so Yemenis couldn't afford them. Things like that.

    And then the Yemenis had a huge problem come 9/11. Many supported al-Qaeda. So vast numbers of Yemeni migrant workers, who remitted most of their earnings home to their families, got expelled from Saudi. The economy tanked - and their problems really started.

    Yemen is a case study of how a reunified country can go horribly wrong.
    If it was ever a functioning country/state (or two) to even start with........
  • kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    kle4 said:

    Apparently the last Tsar of Bulgaria, Simeon II, ousted as a child, was later elected Prime Minister.

    Not all over for Charles if we go Republican after all perhaps.

    Wasn't one of the Habsburgs elected as an MEP? Massive fall from grace for the Archduke of Austria, but I suppose you have to make do.
    Not just any Habsburg - former Crown Prince Franz Joseph Otto Robert Maria Anton Karl Max Heinrich Sixtus Xavier Felix Renatus Ludwig Gaetan Pius Ignatius von Habsburg

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otto_von_Habsburg

    I feel like that name, in itself, is evidence the dynasty had been in place too long.
    His friends call him "Butch" as perhaps Charles can confirm?
  • Nunu3Nunu3 Posts: 225
    Floater said:

    Fantastic news. That I'm first.

    Sorry - we gave your first to someone in the EU - it was the fair thing to do
    I havent been round these parts for some time.
    Any updates on the strawberry numbers??

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