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Total UK vaccinations heading for 10m – politicalbetting.com

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  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited February 2021

    Pulpstar said:

    Now that every care home resident & staff has been offered a jab, I wonder what the overall take up has been. You can't force the needle into anyone's arm (Wellyou can but it'd be assault).
    Residents/staff split ?

    ‘Offered a jab’ smells a bit whiffy in the context of a target of all care home residents to be vaccinated by the end of January. I believe the original target was the 24th but it turns out that was an ‘expectation’ not a target.
    I think offered solely in the context in care homes is deliberate.

    One thing you find is that plenty of care home residents have dementia and other memory problems, which makes them very resistant (and often violent) to those 'strangers' trying to inject them.

    As Pulpstar says you cannot force an injection into someone resisting.

    But according to my father's colleague, enough jabs have been made available to vaccinate every care home resident and staff.
    I’m very familiar with people with dementia being resistant to various things, thanks.
    And also apparently familiar with being oversensitive to innocuous comments.

    I don't get it, there wasn't even anything catty in the post to get worked up about.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,036
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    In my first year of undergraduate in 2010, I received a maintenance grant of 30 whole pounds. You can rest assured that I spent it in one night.

    Textbooks are expensive, it is true.
    So is Newky Brown.
    Newky? Is that in Cornwall?

  • RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Now that every care home resident & staff has been offered a jab, I wonder what the overall take up has been. You can't force the needle into anyone's arm (Wellyou can but it'd be assault).
    Residents/staff split ?

    ‘Offered a jab’ smells a bit whiffy in the context of a target of all care home residents to be vaccinated by the end of January. I believe the original target was the 24th but it turns out that was an ‘expectation’ not a target.
    I mean you can't force them to have it.
    In that case I’m sure that they’ve published the figure for those who remain unvaccinated, what with that being quite important in the middle of a highly contagious viral pandemic.
    Isn't that number already published? It's been offered to everyone, but the numbers they release refer to actual vaccinations. In any case, the number of those vaccinated cannot go any higher since they have all been offered it.
    Cool. What percentage of English care home patients remain unvaccinated?
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    edited February 2021

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Now that every care home resident & staff has been offered a jab, I wonder what the overall take up has been. You can't force the needle into anyone's arm (Wellyou can but it'd be assault).
    Residents/staff split ?

    ‘Offered a jab’ smells a bit whiffy in the context of a target of all care home residents to be vaccinated by the end of January. I believe the original target was the 24th but it turns out that was an ‘expectation’ not a target.
    I mean you can't force them to have it.
    In that case I’m sure that they’ve published the figure for those who remain unvaccinated, what with that being quite important in the middle of a highly contagious viral pandemic.
    Isn't that number already published? It's been offered to everyone, but the numbers they release refer to actual vaccinations. In any case, the number of those vaccinated cannot go any higher since they have all been offered it.
    Cool. What percentage of English care home patients remain unvaccinated?
    Extremely high rate of acceptance: https://www.carehome.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1641654/95-per-cent-of-care-homes-have-had-whole-home-vaccination-for-residents-reveals-NCF-poll

    But the point is it is now done, and the number can't go any higher since everyone else is refusing. Are you suggesting they are lying when they said everyone was offered the jab?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,851
    wf1954 said:

    NHS are motoring through Group 5 here (Farnham, Surrey) already. My wife and I, both 66 with no underlying conditions) received texts at 2pm today, and had ours (Pfizer) at 7pm tonight. Extremely efficient and well-organised set-up.

    Aged 66? I'm amazed you'd already be getting a jab.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,851
    We ought to know what the refusal rates are. I very much hope the figures we are getting are for vaccine completions not offerings.
  • kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Now that every care home resident & staff has been offered a jab, I wonder what the overall take up has been. You can't force the needle into anyone's arm (Wellyou can but it'd be assault).
    Residents/staff split ?

    ‘Offered a jab’ smells a bit whiffy in the context of a target of all care home residents to be vaccinated by the end of January. I believe the original target was the 24th but it turns out that was an ‘expectation’ not a target.
    I think offered solely in the context in care homes is deliberate.

    One thing you find is that plenty of care home residents have dementia and other memory problems, which makes them very resistant (and often violent) to those 'strangers' trying to inject them.

    As Pulpstar says you cannot force an injection into someone resisting.

    But according to my father's colleague, enough jabs have been made available to vaccinate every care home resident and staff.
    I’m very familiar with people with dementia being resistant to various things, thanks.
    And also apparently familiar with being oversensitive to innocuous comments.

    I don't get it, there wasn't even anything catty in the post to get worked up about.
    Please feel free to stop making the daily effort of monitoring my posts for whatever offences against gentility you think they embody. I can assure you it’s an entirely wasted endeavour.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    We ought to know what the refusal rates are. I very much hope the figures we are getting are for vaccine completions not offerings.

    Very low if that link is anything to go by. And the figures we are getting each day are actual vaccines administered.
  • maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1356345191247060995

    I don't buy it for one second, but if only it came to pass...

    Without speeding up they're going to get 30m (i.e 60%) by end of March, so assuming they have new vaccine supplies coming online to allow them to continue new doses when 2nd doses start to be required, this really isn't that ambitious.
    Well maybe, if absolutely nothing goes wrong at any point.

    It'd be such a relief to get the vaccine, and doubly so if most of the restrictions could be chucked in the bin at some point in June.
    Awful result if restrictions last that long. Cases are falling through the floor, and by end of February the ability of Covid to overwhelm the NHS will be eliminated. At that point the only reason to delay return of freedom to those who want it, at a cost of a billion a week, is a deeply misplaced sense of what consistutes prudence.
    Indeed. We should be aiming for 1m/day capacity by spring, and have rolling vaccine development structures planned to keep ahead of this thing.

    I think we can have all adults vaccinated by May and can get to 'Tier 1' restrictions in May. Anything earlier for 'Tier 1' is optimistic.

    Looks like tiering will be applied on a national basis now which is sensible.

    Will need cases below 5,000 a day or national rate of 50/100,000 per 7 days for this to be feasible, probably less. But we might reach that by end March. Or earlier.
  • Black_RookBlack_Rook Posts: 8,905

    wf1954 said:

    NHS are motoring through Group 5 here (Farnham, Surrey) already. My wife and I, both 66 with no underlying conditions) received texts at 2pm today, and had ours (Pfizer) at 7pm tonight. Extremely efficient and well-organised set-up.

    Aged 66? I'm amazed you'd already be getting a jab.
    Not the first person in cohort 5 on PB to be jabbed. I know of the husband of a friend who has a booking, and said gentleman is in cohort 6.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Pulpstar said:

    Now that every care home resident & staff has been offered a jab, I wonder what the overall take up has been. You can't force the needle into anyone's arm (Wellyou can but it'd be assault).
    Residents/staff split ?

    ‘Offered a jab’ smells a bit whiffy in the context of a target of all care home residents to be vaccinated by the end of January. I believe the original target was the 24th but it turns out that was an ‘expectation’ not a target.
    I think offered solely in the context in care homes is deliberate.

    One thing you find is that plenty of care home residents have dementia and other memory problems, which makes them very resistant (and often violent) to those 'strangers' trying to inject them.

    As Pulpstar says you cannot force an injection into someone resisting.

    But according to my father's colleague, enough jabs have been made available to vaccinate every care home resident and staff.
    No but there really should be a debate about whether it should be a requirement to work in healthcare, especially amongst the elderly and most frail.
    I agree.
    Not until it moves from Emergency Use Authorization to a full authorization. Any medical intervention that is EUA is still 'unauthorized' and I think there are and should be substantial legal and human rights issues with mandatory requirements to take unauthorized medications. Once we move to full authorization for the vaccines, I think employers (and schools) should make it a requirement.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    They can't be arsed to vaccinate that the weekends yet they still have more up to date stats than the UK dashboard.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,437

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Now that every care home resident & staff has been offered a jab, I wonder what the overall take up has been. You can't force the needle into anyone's arm (Wellyou can but it'd be assault).
    Residents/staff split ?

    ‘Offered a jab’ smells a bit whiffy in the context of a target of all care home residents to be vaccinated by the end of January. I believe the original target was the 24th but it turns out that was an ‘expectation’ not a target.
    I think offered solely in the context in care homes is deliberate.

    One thing you find is that plenty of care home residents have dementia and other memory problems, which makes them very resistant (and often violent) to those 'strangers' trying to inject them.

    As Pulpstar says you cannot force an injection into someone resisting.

    But according to my father's colleague, enough jabs have been made available to vaccinate every care home resident and staff.
    I’m very familiar with people with dementia being resistant to various things, thanks.
    And also apparently familiar with being oversensitive to innocuous comments.

    I don't get it, there wasn't even anything catty in the post to get worked up about.
    Please feel free to stop making the daily effort of monitoring my posts for whatever offences against gentility you think they embody. I can assure you it’s an entirely wasted endeavour.
    That's a bit oversensitive
  • A genuine question, because I'm not an expert on internal SNP politics - even if this inquiry goes against Sturgeon, is it realistic for her to resign/be forced from office?

    From what little I know, I'm struggling to see who the 'men in grey kilts' would be. There doesn't seem to be a successor who rivals Sturgeon in terms of popularity or perceived competence, and without a clear better alternative, would the SNP party elites really try to push her out and risk installing someone less popular or less competent in the months preceding the Scottish elections? If she's not at risk from being pushed, why jump? And if she can make it past the election and do as well as the polls indicate, the primary political risk posed by the Salmond affair (that it would disrupt the SNP campaign at a crucial juncture) clearly hasn't materialised, so why force her out then?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,092
    edited February 2021
    7 days a week... that would require working more than 35hrs a week and then one wouldn't have enough time for their wife and their mistress....
  • OT on iPlayer the Danish "The Investigation" about a journalist murdered on a submarine is very well done.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Now that every care home resident & staff has been offered a jab, I wonder what the overall take up has been. You can't force the needle into anyone's arm (Wellyou can but it'd be assault).
    Residents/staff split ?

    ‘Offered a jab’ smells a bit whiffy in the context of a target of all care home residents to be vaccinated by the end of January. I believe the original target was the 24th but it turns out that was an ‘expectation’ not a target.
    I mean you can't force them to have it.
    In that case I’m sure that they’ve published the figure for those who remain unvaccinated, what with that being quite important in the middle of a highly contagious viral pandemic.
    Isn't that number already published? It's been offered to everyone, but the numbers they release refer to actual vaccinations. In any case, the number of those vaccinated cannot go any higher since they have all been offered it.
    Cool. What percentage of English care home patients remain unvaccinated?
    Extremely high rate of acceptance: https://www.carehome.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1641654/95-per-cent-of-care-homes-have-had-whole-home-vaccination-for-residents-reveals-NCF-poll

    But the point is it is now done, and the number can't go any higher since everyone else is refusing. Are you suggesting they are lying when they said everyone was offered the jab?
    Are we still sticking to the care homes line for Scottish rollout
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Now that every care home resident & staff has been offered a jab, I wonder what the overall take up has been. You can't force the needle into anyone's arm (Wellyou can but it'd be assault).
    Residents/staff split ?

    ‘Offered a jab’ smells a bit whiffy in the context of a target of all care home residents to be vaccinated by the end of January. I believe the original target was the 24th but it turns out that was an ‘expectation’ not a target.
    I mean you can't force them to have it.
    In that case I’m sure that they’ve published the figure for those who remain unvaccinated, what with that being quite important in the middle of a highly contagious viral pandemic.
    Isn't that number already published? It's been offered to everyone, but the numbers they release refer to actual vaccinations. In any case, the number of those vaccinated cannot go any higher since they have all been offered it.
    Cool. What percentage of English care home patients remain unvaccinated?
    Extremely high rate of acceptance: https://www.carehome.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1641654/95-per-cent-of-care-homes-have-had-whole-home-vaccination-for-residents-reveals-NCF-poll

    But the point is it is now done, and the number can't go any higher since everyone else is refusing. Are you suggesting they are lying when they said everyone was offered the jab?
    Are we still sticking to the care homes line for Scottish rollout
    Seem to have been finished at about the same time, although the position in the other priority groups is not as flattering.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,437
    As no PB Nat has been able to disprove that Scottish school literature, I am tending to believe it is true.

    I really really hope I am wrong. And would be delighted to be so. Because that is some Khmer Rouge shit, right there
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,866

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1356345191247060995

    I don't buy it for one second, but if only it came to pass...

    If we did 9m jabs in January, at that run rate its about another 36m jabs by May, of which 18m would need to be second jabs. So current run rate gets us to 25-30m jabs or 30m-35m adults offered one assuming 10-20% dont want it or cant take it for medical reasons. Thats about 60-70% of adults without any increase in the run rate. There will surely be a significant increase in the run rate.

    We should be close to that date, if not quite "all adults offered one" by then. Id back it happening at 3/1.
    Our monthly run rate is closer to 14m now so we should do at least 50m more jabs by then, plus the ~10m already done that's 60m, I'd estimate 20m with a single dose and 20m fully immunised meaning we'd need to do just 10m more first doses to get everyone their first dose. This is why AZ and Pfizer, we also have Moderna and Novavax coming in April which should add a huge amount of additional capacity for first doses, we could double out first doses in both April and May, covering the additional 10m required doses.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588

    wf1954 said:

    NHS are motoring through Group 5 here (Farnham, Surrey) already. My wife and I, both 66 with no underlying conditions) received texts at 2pm today, and had ours (Pfizer) at 7pm tonight. Extremely efficient and well-organised set-up.

    Aged 66? I'm amazed you'd already be getting a jab.
    I think some areas have pretty much finished vaccinating the over 70s.
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,028

    wf1954 said:

    NHS are motoring through Group 5 here (Farnham, Surrey) already. My wife and I, both 66 with no underlying conditions) received texts at 2pm today, and had ours (Pfizer) at 7pm tonight. Extremely efficient and well-organised set-up.

    Aged 66? I'm amazed you'd already be getting a jab.
    The local ccgs (or Surrey heartlands) has really got its act together. Quite impressed with the surge testing response in Woking to (near me)
  • AlistairAlistair Posts: 23,670

    A genuine question, because I'm not an expert on internal SNP politics - even if this inquiry goes against Sturgeon, is it realistic for her to resign/be forced from office?

    From what little I know, I'm struggling to see who the 'men in grey kilts' would be. There doesn't seem to be a successor who rivals Sturgeon in terms of popularity or perceived competence, and without a clear better alternative, would the SNP party elites really try to push her out and risk installing someone less popular or less competent in the months preceding the Scottish elections? If she's not at risk from being pushed, why jump? And if she can make it past the election and do as well as the polls indicate, the primary political risk posed by the Salmond affair (that it would disrupt the SNP campaign at a crucial juncture) clearly hasn't materialised, so why force her out then?

    It is the thing that struck me today. Even if the inquiry topples Sturgeon, like actual evince of criminal behaviour, then what must xt for the Cherry/Salmond mob.

    Neither Cherry or Salmond can take over the leadership. Cherry isn't even a figure in waiting as she chickened out of standing for Holyrood.

    There is no one waiting in the wings.
  • Pulpstar said:

    Now that every care home resident & staff has been offered a jab, I wonder what the overall take up has been. You can't force the needle into anyone's arm (Wellyou can but it'd be assault).
    Residents/staff split ?

    ‘Offered a jab’ smells a bit whiffy in the context of a target of all care home residents to be vaccinated by the end of January. I believe the original target was the 24th but it turns out that was an ‘expectation’ not a target.
    I think offered solely in the context in care homes is deliberate.

    One thing you find is that plenty of care home residents have dementia and other memory problems, which makes them very resistant (and often violent) to those 'strangers' trying to inject them.

    As Pulpstar says you cannot force an injection into someone resisting.

    But according to my father's colleague, enough jabs have been made available to vaccinate every care home resident and staff.
    No but there really should be a debate about whether it should be a requirement to work in healthcare, especially amongst the elderly and most frail.
    I agree.
    Doesnt the debate simply go something like this:

    Managers - It would be great if everyone can be vaccinated, lets make it mandatory.
    Care workers who dont believe in vaccination - In which case your minimum wage pay for a hugely stressful job is not worth it, you can add our resignations to the existing staff shortages
    Managers - Govt please can we have more cash to attract and retain staff
    Govt - No, but we will eventually do a review of care home funding, just as soon as we are no longer in charge
    Managers - In which case staff can do whatever they please
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    edited February 2021

    In my first year of undergraduate in 2010, I received a maintenance grant of 30 whole pounds. You can rest assured that I spent it in one night.

    That would have got you 50 pints of Mild in my freshers year.
    90 shots at Invention's happy hour (now the Crows Nest), or 30 cocktails at Offshore 44 (on the quayside)...
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    RobD said:

    We ought to know what the refusal rates are. I very much hope the figures we are getting are for vaccine completions not offerings.

    Very low if that link is anything to go by. And the figures we are getting each day are actual vaccines administered.
    The link implies very high rates for the residents, and disappointingly low for the staff for a number of reasons, including three reasons for those wanting but not getting the jab:
    1. not enough vaccines brought by the vaccination team for both residents and staff
    2. shift staff not present during the visit, unable to get rescheduled
    3. had COVID within 28 days of visit

    Interestingly, the only reason given for refusal was other medical condition. The article does not mention people refusing on the basis of being anti-vaccination for whatever reason.
  • Leon said:

    kle4 said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Now that every care home resident & staff has been offered a jab, I wonder what the overall take up has been. You can't force the needle into anyone's arm (Wellyou can but it'd be assault).
    Residents/staff split ?

    ‘Offered a jab’ smells a bit whiffy in the context of a target of all care home residents to be vaccinated by the end of January. I believe the original target was the 24th but it turns out that was an ‘expectation’ not a target.
    I think offered solely in the context in care homes is deliberate.

    One thing you find is that plenty of care home residents have dementia and other memory problems, which makes them very resistant (and often violent) to those 'strangers' trying to inject them.

    As Pulpstar says you cannot force an injection into someone resisting.

    But according to my father's colleague, enough jabs have been made available to vaccinate every care home resident and staff.
    I’m very familiar with people with dementia being resistant to various things, thanks.
    And also apparently familiar with being oversensitive to innocuous comments.

    I don't get it, there wasn't even anything catty in the post to get worked up about.
    Please feel free to stop making the daily effort of monitoring my posts for whatever offences against gentility you think they embody. I can assure you it’s an entirely wasted endeavour.
    That's a bit oversensitive
    I can never hope to match the stoicism of a bloke who spent days screeching that a Handelsblatt hack that no one had heard of should be fired.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1356345191247060995

    I don't buy it for one second, but if only it came to pass...

    Without speeding up they're going to get 30m (i.e 60%) by end of March, so assuming they have new vaccine supplies coming online to allow them to continue new doses when 2nd doses start to be required, this really isn't that ambitious.
    Well maybe, if absolutely nothing goes wrong at any point.

    It'd be such a relief to get the vaccine, and doubly so if most of the restrictions could be chucked in the bin at some point in June.
    Awful result if restrictions last that long. Cases are falling through the floor, and by end of February the ability of Covid to overwhelm the NHS will be eliminated. At that point the only reason to delay return of freedom to those who want it, at a cost of a billion a week, is a deeply misplaced sense of what consistutes prudence.
    Indeed. We should be aiming for 1m/day capacity by spring, and have rolling vaccine development structures planned to keep ahead of this thing.

    I think we can have all adults vaccinated by May and can get to 'Tier 1' restrictions in May. Anything earlier for 'Tier 1' is optimistic.

    Looks like tiering will be applied on a national basis now which is sensible.

    Will need cases below 5,000 a day or national rate of 50/100,000 per 7 days for this to be feasible, probably less. But we might reach that by end March. Or earlier.
    I’ve forgotten what Tier 1 is!

    If it’s two households in pubs, no masks, that sounds okay. Masks are the work of the devil - they are dehumanising (yes, I do wear them, yes I accept they are necessary)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    France seems incredibly relaxed about vaccinations. You sense there's no urgency from either the population, the state, any doctors there.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468
    eek said:

    In my first year of undergraduate in 2010, I received a maintenance grant of 30 whole pounds. You can rest assured that I spent it in one night.

    That would have got you 50 pints of Mild in my freshers year.
    90 shots at Invention's happy hour (now the Crows Nest), or 30 cocktails at Offshore 44 (on the quayside)...
    I think at the Uni, a pint was 15p
  • A genuine question, because I'm not an expert on internal SNP politics - even if this inquiry goes against Sturgeon, is it realistic for her to resign/be forced from office?

    If the inquiry finds she lied to parliament the Scottish Government's ministerial code of conduct (which, in the most recent revision, amusingly has a foreward written by one N. Sturgeon) requires her to resign.
  • Pulpstar said:

    France seems incredibly relaxed about vaccinations. You sense there's no urgency from either the population, the state, any doctors there.

    They are sprinting like Usain Bolt compared to the Dutch.....
  • eek said:

    In my first year of undergraduate in 2010, I received a maintenance grant of 30 whole pounds. You can rest assured that I spent it in one night.

    That would have got you 50 pints of Mild in my freshers year.
    90 shots at Invention's happy hour (now the Crows Nest), or 30 cocktails at Offshore 44 (on the quayside)...
    i seem to dimly recall going in Inventions a few times, long, long ago. in newcastle?
  • Leon said:
    Hmmm. Quite hard for the SNP to complain if there’s now a massive push on unionist propaganda as the U.K. Gvt takes over the old EU funding lines. The SNP better hope it hasn’t brought a knife to a gun fight.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Leon said:
    Who is Graeme Glass? Some sort of authority on Scottish history education?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    edited February 2021
    Investigative website which seems to be becoming more well-known.

    https://www.bellingcat.com
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/we-are-bellingcat-by-eliot-higgins-review-the-reinvention-of-reporting-for-the-internet-age

    "We Are Bellingcat is Higgins’s gripping account of how he reinvented reporting for the internet age. The book was finished before his latest scoop. In December, Bellingcat outed the kill-team behind the novichok poisoning last summer of Alexei Navalny, Vladimir Putin’s number one critic. The investigation helped galvanise street protests on 23 January across Russia, following Navalny’s courageous return to Moscow and inevitable arrest."
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398
    TimT said:

    eek said:

    In my first year of undergraduate in 2010, I received a maintenance grant of 30 whole pounds. You can rest assured that I spent it in one night.

    That would have got you 50 pints of Mild in my freshers year.
    90 shots at Invention's happy hour (now the Crows Nest), or 30 cocktails at Offshore 44 (on the quayside)...
    I think at the Uni, a pint was 15p
    Not in 91 - think it was 80p in Castle Leazes
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1356345191247060995

    I don't buy it for one second, but if only it came to pass...

    Without speeding up they're going to get 30m (i.e 60%) by end of March, so assuming they have new vaccine supplies coming online to allow them to continue new doses when 2nd doses start to be required, this really isn't that ambitious.
    Well maybe, if absolutely nothing goes wrong at any point.

    It'd be such a relief to get the vaccine, and doubly so if most of the restrictions could be chucked in the bin at some point in June.
    Awful result if restrictions last that long. Cases are falling through the floor, and by end of February the ability of Covid to overwhelm the NHS will be eliminated. At that point the only reason to delay return of freedom to those who want it, at a cost of a billion a week, is a deeply misplaced sense of what consistutes prudence.
    Indeed. We should be aiming for 1m/day capacity by spring, and have rolling vaccine development structures planned to keep ahead of this thing.

    I think we can have all adults vaccinated by May and can get to 'Tier 1' restrictions in May. Anything earlier for 'Tier 1' is optimistic.

    Looks like tiering will be applied on a national basis now which is sensible.

    Will need cases below 5,000 a day or national rate of 50/100,000 per 7 days for this to be feasible, probably less. But we might reach that by end March. Or earlier.
    I’ve forgotten what Tier 1 is!

    If it’s two households in pubs, no masks, that sounds okay. Masks are the work of the devil - they are dehumanising (yes, I do wear them, yes I accept they are necessary)
    Wearing a mask in a shop is just something you do that's polite till the pandemic is declared over in my opinion. Picked up some new FFP3s recently ;)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    RobD said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Now that every care home resident & staff has been offered a jab, I wonder what the overall take up has been. You can't force the needle into anyone's arm (Wellyou can but it'd be assault).
    Residents/staff split ?

    ‘Offered a jab’ smells a bit whiffy in the context of a target of all care home residents to be vaccinated by the end of January. I believe the original target was the 24th but it turns out that was an ‘expectation’ not a target.
    I mean you can't force them to have it.
    In that case I’m sure that they’ve published the figure for those who remain unvaccinated, what with that being quite important in the middle of a highly contagious viral pandemic.
    Isn't that number already published? It's been offered to everyone, but the numbers they release refer to actual vaccinations. In any case, the number of those vaccinated cannot go any higher since they have all been offered it.
    Cool. What percentage of English care home patients remain unvaccinated?
    Extremely high rate of acceptance: https://www.carehome.co.uk/news/article.cfm/id/1641654/95-per-cent-of-care-homes-have-had-whole-home-vaccination-for-residents-reveals-NCF-poll

    But the point is it is now done, and the number can't go any higher since everyone else is refusing. Are you suggesting they are lying when they said everyone was offered the jab?
    Just implying it.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,204
    Dustin Diamond "Screech" from Saved by the bell has died. 44 from cancer D:
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,437

    Leon said:
    Hmmm. Quite hard for the SNP to complain if there’s now a massive push on unionist propaganda as the U.K. Gvt takes over the old EU funding lines. The SNP better hope it hasn’t brought a knife to a gun fight.
    You also have to love the look of Scot Nats exulting in their small-scale emulation of the British Empire, an organisation they hitherto delight on abhorring, as being some Fascist enterprise conducted under the "Butcher's Apron".

    Next, they will be hijacking the Union Flag itself. Miraculously cleansed of blood.
  • TimT said:

    eek said:

    In my first year of undergraduate in 2010, I received a maintenance grant of 30 whole pounds. You can rest assured that I spent it in one night.

    That would have got you 50 pints of Mild in my freshers year.
    90 shots at Invention's happy hour (now the Crows Nest), or 30 cocktails at Offshore 44 (on the quayside)...
    I think at the Uni, a pint was 15p
    Are you sure it wasn't 3/-?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,398

    eek said:

    In my first year of undergraduate in 2010, I received a maintenance grant of 30 whole pounds. You can rest assured that I spent it in one night.

    That would have got you 50 pints of Mild in my freshers year.
    90 shots at Invention's happy hour (now the Crows Nest), or 30 cocktails at Offshore 44 (on the quayside)...
    i seem to dimly recall going in Inventions a few times, long, long ago. in newcastle?
    Yes - or Kings College, Durham as it was when my Dad went there.

    It looks like Eek Jr 1 will be the third generation going there with any luck come September.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Pulpstar said:

    maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1356345191247060995

    I don't buy it for one second, but if only it came to pass...

    Without speeding up they're going to get 30m (i.e 60%) by end of March, so assuming they have new vaccine supplies coming online to allow them to continue new doses when 2nd doses start to be required, this really isn't that ambitious.
    Well maybe, if absolutely nothing goes wrong at any point.

    It'd be such a relief to get the vaccine, and doubly so if most of the restrictions could be chucked in the bin at some point in June.
    Awful result if restrictions last that long. Cases are falling through the floor, and by end of February the ability of Covid to overwhelm the NHS will be eliminated. At that point the only reason to delay return of freedom to those who want it, at a cost of a billion a week, is a deeply misplaced sense of what consistutes prudence.
    Indeed. We should be aiming for 1m/day capacity by spring, and have rolling vaccine development structures planned to keep ahead of this thing.

    I think we can have all adults vaccinated by May and can get to 'Tier 1' restrictions in May. Anything earlier for 'Tier 1' is optimistic.

    Looks like tiering will be applied on a national basis now which is sensible.

    Will need cases below 5,000 a day or national rate of 50/100,000 per 7 days for this to be feasible, probably less. But we might reach that by end March. Or earlier.
    I’ve forgotten what Tier 1 is!

    If it’s two households in pubs, no masks, that sounds okay. Masks are the work of the devil - they are dehumanising (yes, I do wear them, yes I accept they are necessary)
    Wearing a mask in a shop is just something you do that's polite till the pandemic is declared over in my opinion. Picked up some new FFP3s recently ;)
    Yeah, I don’t mind wearing them in shops. Horrible in pubs though, just ruins the atmosphere.
  • Reminiscent of the front page of the Morning Star the day after the Berlin Wall fell:



  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    TimT said:

    eek said:

    In my first year of undergraduate in 2010, I received a maintenance grant of 30 whole pounds. You can rest assured that I spent it in one night.

    That would have got you 50 pints of Mild in my freshers year.
    90 shots at Invention's happy hour (now the Crows Nest), or 30 cocktails at Offshore 44 (on the quayside)...
    I think at the Uni, a pint was 15p
    Are you sure it wasn't 3/-?
    Nah, those pesky new coins came in in 1971 or some such. In the bars, it was a bit more expensive, probably 25-30p, but in the Uni bar it was cheap.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,437
    edited February 2021

    Leon said:
    Who is Graeme Glass? Some sort of authority on Scottish history education?
    All I can say is, the cybernats, despite being repulsive, are very efficient at shooting down Fake News. It's one of the things they do well.

    Not one of them has managed to shoot this down, or, indeed, even tried. It APPEARS to be real. I capitalise APPEARS as I am neither Scots, nor have children in Scottish schools, so I cannot prove it personally. But the total lack of any rebuttal, or disproof, tends me to believe that this propagandistic North Korean shite really is being placed before Scottish schoolkids

    Again: I genuinely hope I am wrong. The idea of British kids being brainwashed like this is YUK
  • eek said:

    eek said:

    In my first year of undergraduate in 2010, I received a maintenance grant of 30 whole pounds. You can rest assured that I spent it in one night.

    That would have got you 50 pints of Mild in my freshers year.
    90 shots at Invention's happy hour (now the Crows Nest), or 30 cocktails at Offshore 44 (on the quayside)...
    i seem to dimly recall going in Inventions a few times, long, long ago. in newcastle?
    Yes - or Kings College, Durham as it was when my Dad went there.

    It looks like Eek Jr 1 will be the third generation going there with any luck come September.
    I also dimly recall a place of particular excess called the Jewish Mother's. No idea why the name.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Leon said:
    Who is Graeme Glass? Some sort of authority on Scottish history education?
    I like how he 'rights' history. Was it wrong before him?
  • Pulpstar said:

    France seems incredibly relaxed about vaccinations. You sense there's no urgency from either the population, the state, any doctors there.

    Perhaps they enjoy curfews.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    TimT said:

    Leon said:
    Who is Graeme Glass? Some sort of authority on Scottish history education?
    I like how he 'rights' history. Was it wrong before him?
    No, it was left.



    What, my coat?
  • A genuine question, because I'm not an expert on internal SNP politics - even if this inquiry goes against Sturgeon, is it realistic for her to resign/be forced from office?

    If the inquiry finds she lied to parliament the Scottish Government's ministerial code of conduct (which, in the most recent revision, amusingly has a foreward written by one N. Sturgeon) requires her to resign.
    I appreciate that, my point is more whether she would actually need to respect the rules given how dominant she is in her party and how little this whole affair appears to be influencing voting intention. Maybe I'm just being cynical but if she's not going to be forced out by her party then I can't see why she would feel the need to resign, unless there is an absolutely seismic decline in support for the SNP.
  • TimTTimT Posts: 6,468

    Pulpstar said:

    France seems incredibly relaxed about vaccinations. You sense there's no urgency from either the population, the state, any doctors there.

    Perhaps they enjoy curfews.
    All those married people happy to know their spouses are home with them, not out with their lovers.
  • Pulpstar said:

    France seems incredibly relaxed about vaccinations. You sense there's no urgency from either the population, the state, any doctors there.

    Not so much relaxed as antagonistic: a large proportion, possibly a majority, do not want to be vaccinated.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,588
    One of the mega-centres in the UK like Excel or Millennium Point may have done more jabs than that yesterday.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,866
    If that's the case then it's absolutely amazing. Hopefully Moderna, Novavax and Pfizer are also rapidly updating their vaccines. Pfizer doing so would also vindicate our 12 week gap policy. Hope they update it for the Brazil version too.
  • Isn't that a further advantage of delaying the second dose ?
  • Pulpstar said:

    France seems incredibly relaxed about vaccinations. You sense there's no urgency from either the population, the state, any doctors there.

    Not so much relaxed as antagonistic: a large proportion, possibly a majority, do not want to be vaccinated.
    France may end up providing a textbook example of what happens when you don't vaccinate for a novel virus. Sadly.

  • Isn't that a further advantage of delaying the second dose ?
    Maybe that's the French thinking...oh you said second dose ;-)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933

    Isn't that a further advantage of delaying the second dose ?
    Seems so. Who said Johnson was a lucky general?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,866

    Isn't that a further advantage of delaying the second dose ?
    Yes, it's a very lucky consequence of our vaccine strategy. It could be a huge bit of luck if the new jab rolls out by April when second doses are due and it proffers high immunity against SA COVID.
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Dante's descendant seeks to overturn poet's 1302 corruption conviction

    Seven centuries after the poet was found guilty in Florence, Sperello di Serego Alighieri has begun a campaign to clear his ancestor’s name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/dante-descendant-seeks-to-overturn-poets-1302-corruption-conviction

    True story. On a trip to Florence a couple of years ago I had a coffee with a cafe owner and leather goods dealer whose family are mentioned in the Divine Comedy, as being leather goods dealers, in the exact same street - same shop - in Florence where they still sell leather goods today
    Our family moved the business into the current premises in the 1690s and have lived in the flat over the shop ever since
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    The absolutely shocking vax numbers from continental Europe are no laughing matter: it’s an absolute shambles of epic proportions. Seriously worrying.
  • maaarsh said:

    maaarsh said:

    https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1356345191247060995

    I don't buy it for one second, but if only it came to pass...

    Without speeding up they're going to get 30m (i.e 60%) by end of March, so assuming they have new vaccine supplies coming online to allow them to continue new doses when 2nd doses start to be required, this really isn't that ambitious.
    Well maybe, if absolutely nothing goes wrong at any point.

    It'd be such a relief to get the vaccine, and doubly so if most of the restrictions could be chucked in the bin at some point in June.
    Awful result if restrictions last that long. Cases are falling through the floor, and by end of February the ability of Covid to overwhelm the NHS will be eliminated. At that point the only reason to delay return of freedom to those who want it, at a cost of a billion a week, is a deeply misplaced sense of what consistutes prudence.
    Indeed. We should be aiming for 1m/day capacity by spring, and have rolling vaccine development structures planned to keep ahead of this thing.

    I think we can have all adults vaccinated by May and can get to 'Tier 1' restrictions in May. Anything earlier for 'Tier 1' is optimistic.

    Looks like tiering will be applied on a national basis now which is sensible.

    Will need cases below 5,000 a day or national rate of 50/100,000 per 7 days for this to be feasible, probably less. But we might reach that by end March. Or earlier.
    I’ve forgotten what Tier 1 is!

    If it’s two households in pubs, no masks, that sounds okay. Masks are the work of the devil - they are dehumanising (yes, I do wear them, yes I accept they are necessary)
    It will probably be based on Tier 1 as we had it in the autumn, so for pubs is 'rule of 6' (might be modified to two households which is tighter), mandatory table service, possibly masks when going to loo (I don't think this adds much so maybe not).

    No 'substantial meal' requirement which was a Tier 2 rule in the end, and which did not add any real mitigation.

    Am hopeful now for pubs and restaurants early May, more than I was two weeks ago.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,866
    edited February 2021

    The absolutely shocking vax numbers from continental Europe are no laughing matter: it’s an absolute shambles of epic proportions. Seriously worrying.

    It is, I still don't understand why EU countries aren't investing all of their money in vaccine manufacturing. The return on investment must be absolutely massive. We've spent £5bn or so and we stand to gain 8-12% of GDP which is equivalent to £200bn in extra economic activity and then a return to normal with businesses ready to invest, consumers ready to spend and the return of 2-2.3% trend growth a year earlier than before.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited February 2021

    Reminiscent of the front page of the Morning Star the day after the Berlin Wall fell:



    The party announced plans for the total reform of the electoral process onto a multi-party basis and for the establishment of the rights of assembly and press freedom.

    I don't know, that sounds like a pretty impressive reforms package to me. Who could be opposed to the granting of such privileges?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    Foxy said:
    Especially impressive when you remember that the Israelis started with the oldest cohorts first.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298
    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356322899364376576?s=21

    The Sindy posters seem to have got into the habit of defending crap.

    The SNP - and Nicola personally - are ballsing up the case for independence.

    Reminds me of the Lib Dem posters desperately trying to make Swinson’s no second ref policy sound plausible.
  • kle4 said:

    Reminiscent of the front page of the Morning Star the day after the Berlin Wall fell:



    The party announced plans for the total reform of the electoral process onto a multi-party basis and for the establishment of the rights of assembly and press freedom.

    I don't know, that sounds like a pretty impressive reforms package to me. Who could be opposed to the granting of such privileges?
    Enjoyed the 'unexpected' resignation of the Bulgarian PM at the bottom of the page(due to a brewing revolution).
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Foxy said:
    First out the gate and with seriously impressive results to boot, Pfizer do appear to have knocked it out the park. Price and ease of use will presumably see others used a lot, but their product seems damn impressive.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Investigative website which seems to be becoming more well-known.

    https://www.bellingcat.com
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/we-are-bellingcat-by-eliot-higgins-review-the-reinvention-of-reporting-for-the-internet-age

    "We Are Bellingcat is Higgins’s gripping account of how he reinvented reporting for the internet age. The book was finished before his latest scoop. In December, Bellingcat outed the kill-team behind the novichok poisoning last summer of Alexei Navalny, Vladimir Putin’s number one critic. The investigation helped galvanise street protests on 23 January across Russia, following Navalny’s courageous return to Moscow and inevitable arrest."

    Thanks. Following your prompting, I came across this on Bellingcat, published on Jan 5th. So it was in plain sight to all what was going to happen on the 6th, down even to the gallows. The only bit they got wrong was the assumption that law enforcement was prepared:

    "The link that apparently brought this individual to tears was another thread on TheDonald. It’s title: Today I told my kids Goodbye. The original post, which has been upvoted more than 3,800 times, starts with a father warning his children “daddy might not come home from D.C.”. One of the first responses, with nearly 400 upvotes, is a woman claiming she “told my Mom goodbye today” and stating that since she has “no kids, no husband” she is the right person to help “storm the Capitol”. Responses include a mixture of praise, debates on whether or not the Capitol should be burned down, and one person who urges: “Bring the wood, build the gallows outside congress, be mentally prepared to pull them out and string em up… have to send the world a strong message…”

    Further down, commenters debate whether or not to assault journalists they see in order to take their cameras and film “the real news”. One member writes, “media has no right to property” while another, somewhat surprisingly, complains that this would be “violating” one of the constitutions “most basic precepts”. Discussion then moves to ‘self defense’, with some members suggesting body cameras and others echoing Enrique Tarrio’s call to dress in disguise. One of these people writes, “If you’ve got to drop some commie fuckboy, just leave after. You aren’t going to get a fair shake in the system. So don’t participate. In response, another user posts: “please don’t be dumbasses and leave your fingerprints on shell casings you loaded without gloves.”

    It is, of course, impossible to say precisely what the citizens of Washington D.C. can expect from the January 6th rally. Both previous D.C. MAGA rallies have included significant amounts of street violence. Some right-wing ralliers are already in the city and have livestreamed themselves tearing down signs at Black Lives Matter Plaza. Mayor Bowser has urged residents to stay away from downtown D.C. and reiterated that open-carry of firearms is illegal in the city. The violence of the previous rallies may lead D.C. law enforcement and the local government to keep a much tighter handle on these demonstrations. The fact that Proud Boy leader Enrique Tarrio was arrested upon entering D.C. for vandalizing a church on his last visit to the city suggests this might be the case. On Parler, several Proud Boys have already responded to this by calling for violence against the police."

    https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2021/01/05/how-the-insurgent-and-maga-right-are-being-welded-together-on-the-streets-of-washington-d-c/

  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,712
    rcs1000 said:

    Foxy said:
    Especially impressive when you remember that the Israelis started with the oldest cohorts first.
    Though I can see why they have an ongoing infection problem. This is the funeral of a revered Rabbi who died of Covid.

    https://m.jpost.com/breaking-news/brisk-yeshiva-head-rabbi-meshulam-dovid-soloveitchik-passes-away-at-99-657288
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209
    The initial comparison "not 4,650 per 100,000" is a specious. Because nowhere in the world is managing to vaccinate close to 5% of their population a day - not even Israel.

  • https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356322899364376576?s=21

    The Sindy posters seem to have got into the habit of defending crap.

    The SNP - and Nicola personally - are ballsing up the case for independence.

    Reminds me of the Lib Dem posters desperately trying to make Swinson’s no second ref policy sound plausible.

    It’s a competitive field but if you really believe you too can become a PB Scotch expert.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    edited February 2021

    kle4 said:

    Reminiscent of the front page of the Morning Star the day after the Berlin Wall fell:



    The party announced plans for the total reform of the electoral process onto a multi-party basis and for the establishment of the rights of assembly and press freedom.

    I don't know, that sounds like a pretty impressive reforms package to me. Who could be opposed to the granting of such privileges?
    Enjoyed the 'unexpected' resignation of the Bulgarian PM at the bottom of the page(due to a brewing revolution).
    Well, they won the first elections afterwards according to wiki, albeit not for long, so I guess the party ousting him worked?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126

    The absolutely shocking vax numbers from continental Europe are no laughing matter: it’s an absolute shambles of epic proportions. Seriously worrying.

    Fortunately in some areas they have declining numbers of cases, and if they can maintain that the impact won't be as bad as it could be. But not all are so fortunate of course.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,477
    Andy_JS said:

    Investigative website which seems to be becoming more well-known.

    https://www.bellingcat.com
    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/we-are-bellingcat-by-eliot-higgins-review-the-reinvention-of-reporting-for-the-internet-age

    "We Are Bellingcat is Higgins’s gripping account of how he reinvented reporting for the internet age. The book was finished before his latest scoop. In December, Bellingcat outed the kill-team behind the novichok poisoning last summer of Alexei Navalny, Vladimir Putin’s number one critic. The investigation helped galvanise street protests on 23 January across Russia, following Navalny’s courageous return to Moscow and inevitable arrest."

    Isn't a foreign organisation 'galvanising protests' sort of what we're complaining about them doing?
  • rcs1000 said:

    The initial comparison "not 4,650 per 100,000" is a specious. Because nowhere in the world is managing to vaccinate close to 5% of their population a day - not even Israel.

    4,650 per million, on the other hand, is very doable.
  • https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356322899364376576?s=21

    The Sindy posters seem to have got into the habit of defending crap.

    The SNP - and Nicola personally - are ballsing up the case for independence.

    Reminds me of the Lib Dem posters desperately trying to make Swinson’s no second ref policy sound plausible.

    It’s a competitive field but if you really believe you too can become a PB Scotch expert.
    I'm trying my best, but there is a limit to how much I can drink on a school night.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,437

    A genuine question, because I'm not an expert on internal SNP politics - even if this inquiry goes against Sturgeon, is it realistic for her to resign/be forced from office?

    If the inquiry finds she lied to parliament the Scottish Government's ministerial code of conduct (which, in the most recent revision, amusingly has a foreward written by one N. Sturgeon) requires her to resign.
    I appreciate that, my point is more whether she would actually need to respect the rules given how dominant she is in her party and how little this whole affair appears to be influencing voting intention. Maybe I'm just being cynical but if she's not going to be forced out by her party then I can't see why she would feel the need to resign, unless there is an absolutely seismic decline in support for the SNP.
    I don't think it is support, she is very popular. As she should be (in a way) she is very good at doing the Calming Mother of the Nation routine, during a crisis. Better than Boris, for sure, he's like your Dad that does care, but is also screwing a buxom barmaid down the local, and has to go to uh sorry yeah um stay safe, uh-huh?

    However. judging by the odd recent behaviour of Sturgeon, and her administration, I suspect she is in very deep legal trouble, and she knows it. She's chucking out decoys, randomly. It smacks of panic.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,126
    Apparently the last Tsar of Bulgaria, Simeon II, ousted as a child, was later elected Prime Minister.

    Not all over for Charles if we go Republican after all perhaps.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,298

    https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356322899364376576?s=21

    The Sindy posters seem to have got into the habit of defending crap.

    The SNP - and Nicola personally - are ballsing up the case for independence.

    Reminds me of the Lib Dem posters desperately trying to make Swinson’s no second ref policy sound plausible.

    It’s a competitive field but if you really believe you too can become a PB Scotch expert.
    You make my point.

    This use of “Scotch” is passive aggressive irony masking an essential realisation that the Nicola is fucking up.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,933
    kle4 said:

    Apparently the last Tsar of Bulgaria, Simeon II, ousted as a child, was later elected Prime Minister.

    Not all over for Charles if we go Republican after all perhaps.

    Wasn't one of the Habsburgs elected as an MEP? Massive fall from grace for the Archduke of Austria, but I suppose you have to make do.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,908
    MaxPB said:

    The absolutely shocking vax numbers from continental Europe are no laughing matter: it’s an absolute shambles of epic proportions. Seriously worrying.

    It is, I still don't understand why EU countries aren't investing all of their money in vaccine manufacturing. The return on investment must be absolutely massive. We've spent £5bn or so and we stand to gain 8-12% of GDP which is equivalent to £200bn in extra economic activity and then a return to normal with businesses ready to invest, consumers ready to spend and the return of 2-2.3% trend growth a year earlier than before.
    I said a few weeks ago when EU fans were bragging about the low price paid that they had the wrong end of the stick, and that even £1,000* a dose would be worth it. It looks like a monumental mistake to me, and likely to be every bit as bad as any other mistake made so far during the pandemic. I'm not even entirely convinced the UK has done enough.

    Not vaccinating as fast as possible will result in many more deaths, cause much more economic damage, and gives the virus too many opportunities to mutate into something nastier.

    * That was just picking a figure out of the air, but the point is almost any price would be reasonable if we can vaccinate the whole population quickly.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    edited February 2021
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Dante's descendant seeks to overturn poet's 1302 corruption conviction

    Seven centuries after the poet was found guilty in Florence, Sperello di Serego Alighieri has begun a campaign to clear his ancestor’s name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/01/dante-descendant-seeks-to-overturn-poets-1302-corruption-conviction

    True story. On a trip to Florence a couple of years ago I had a coffee with a cafe owner and leather goods dealer whose family are mentioned in the Divine Comedy, as being leather goods dealers, in the exact same street - same shop - in Florence where they still sell leather goods today
    In the walled city of Sana'a, Yemen, many of the ancient houses were said to have been in the same ownership for over a thousand years.

    The city gates of Sana'a were closed at dusk and opened at dawn as late as the 1960's. Whilst Carnaby Street was swinging, the city was shut to all until the morning.
  • https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1356322899364376576?s=21

    The Sindy posters seem to have got into the habit of defending crap.

    The SNP - and Nicola personally - are ballsing up the case for independence.

    Reminds me of the Lib Dem posters desperately trying to make Swinson’s no second ref policy sound plausible.

    It’s a competitive field but if you really believe you too can become a PB Scotch expert.
    I prefer Glenmorangie to Glenfiddich and Bowmore to Laphroaig.

    Does that make me an expert ?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,209

    rcs1000 said:

    The initial comparison "not 4,650 per 100,000" is a specious. Because nowhere in the world is managing to vaccinate close to 5% of their population a day - not even Israel.

    4,650 per million, on the other hand, is very doable.
    Agreed - that should be the minimum that any first world country should be achieving.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,600
    glw said:

    MaxPB said:

    The absolutely shocking vax numbers from continental Europe are no laughing matter: it’s an absolute shambles of epic proportions. Seriously worrying.

    It is, I still don't understand why EU countries aren't investing all of their money in vaccine manufacturing. The return on investment must be absolutely massive. We've spent £5bn or so and we stand to gain 8-12% of GDP which is equivalent to £200bn in extra economic activity and then a return to normal with businesses ready to invest, consumers ready to spend and the return of 2-2.3% trend growth a year earlier than before.
    I said a few weeks ago when EU fans were bragging about the low price paid that they had the wrong end of the stick, and that even £1,000* a dose would be worth it. It looks like a monumental mistake to me, and likely to be every bit as bad as any other mistake made so far during the pandemic. I'm not even entirely convinced the UK has done enough.

    Not vaccinating as fast as possible will result in many more deaths, cause much more economic damage, and gives the virus too many opportunities to mutate into something nastier.

    * That was just picking a figure out of the air, but the point is almost any price would be reasonable if we can vaccinate the whole population quickly.
    We'll do the EU a knockdown price of £500,000,000 per million doses.

    If they play nice.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,712
    kle4 said:

    Foxy said:
    First out the gate and with seriously impressive results to boot, Pfizer do appear to have knocked it out the park. Price and ease of use will presumably see others used a lot, but their product seems damn impressive.
    It does indeed, and easy to adapt to new variants too.

    Those 16 hospitalisations were from a population similar to the adult population of Leicestershire, so half a ward rather than our current 15 wards of Covid-19.

    Slightly worrying though is that despite their vaccinations and a lockdown stricter than ours, their R number remains stubbornly close to 1. This is also from the Jerusalem Post:

    "In recent days, we see that the [R] infection rate stands at more than 0.9 and even rose to 0.95 and 0.96,” he said. “There is a very moderate decrease in the number of serious patients. We are seeing a decrease in the number of new serious patients coming to the hospitals and a very moderate decrease in the total number of serious patients.”

    Mrs Foxy reports that ICU is less stretched than last Monday night. She described last weeks nights as "Hellish".
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    The initial comparison "not 4,650 per 100,000" is a specious. Because nowhere in the world is managing to vaccinate close to 5% of their population a day - not even Israel.

    4,650 per million, on the other hand, is very doable.
    Agreed - that should be the minimum that any first world country should be achieving.
    So what's Trudeau's excuse ?
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