How many years' EU membership fees did it cost to get us ahead in the vaccine queue?
We should put that on a bus.
Brexit had nothing to do with it. The crucial decisions had been taken before the idea of an EU scheme even came about.
Brexit had everything to do with it, and has had everything to do with the insane EU reaction since. Denying this is futile
I get the impression that Oxford Uni’s involvement, our early financial support, and the tie up with AZN to put in place UK manufacturing capability were the critical factors.
60 MILLION doses of the Novavax Covid vaccine will be made on Teesside, it has tonight been confirmed, after the vaccine passed its UK clinical trial.
The clinical trials have shown the vaccine to be 89.3% effective in preventing coronavirus in participants, as well as efficacy against new UK variant The UK has secured 60 million doses of the vaccine, with manufacturing set to take place at Fujifilm Diosynth in Billingham, Teesside.
Hopefully they had a rolling review with the MHRA.
✔️ 89% efficiency ✔️ Tested on super kent covid ✔️ Teeside manufacture ✔️ 60 million doses on order
Not so great on the SA variant
Yet another good reason to stop titting about with half measures on the borders, to give us the best chance of maintaining the highest degree of efficacy. Stamp on the damned pandemic, whilst the manufacturers work on updated vaccines that we can get into (at least) the most vulnerable in the Autumn.
I think we can safely assume that the MHRA will tear through the paperwork as quickly as humanly possible. Any word on production timescales?
I think the big reduction against SA COVID again means once we get through the population, I think we will be going round again with an updated versions of these vaccines for these new mutant versions.
✔️ 89% efficiency ✔️ Tested on super kent covid ✔️ Teeside manufacture ✔️ 60 million doses on order
Not so great on the SA variant
Yet another good reason to stop titting about with half measures on the borders, to give us the best chance of maintaining the highest degree of efficacy. Stamp on the damned pandemic, whilst the manufacturers work on updated vaccines that we can get into (at least) the most vulnerable in the Autumn.
I think we can safely assume that the MHRA will tear through the paperwork as quickly as humanly possible. Any word on production timescales?
I've been really surprised what I've found out about the EU's two largest members during this epidemic.
Firstly, the French being so anti vax; we should quarantine them and travellers there (I'd still probably go!) as a general rule even post pandemic. Who knows what filthy diseases the unvaccinated lunatics are bringing with them.
And the Germans! They won't use a vaccine until it's been fully trialled by another people. I want to know how they know it would work on their pure German genes having only been tested on lesser peoples.
Toby Young wraps up for the proposers. Argues that government must always have a cast iron case before suspending our liberties, yet there has been no cost benefit analysis. Suggests the harm of lockdown is worse than the benefit. Says the current measures are unprecedented. Points to multiple studies showing that severity of lockdown makes no difference to mortality (e.g. Cali is no better off than Florida). Underlines the economic damage, and catastrophic consequences for the future, including to education and health. Advocates focused protection of the vulnerable, early border controls, effective tracing, and voluntary sensible precautions for everyone else.
Toby Young?!! Hasn't he been wrong in every material respect since the pandemic began?
Yes, but he ignores the counter evidence and deletes his old tweets so in his mind he is always right.
I've been really surprised what I've found out about the EU's two largest members during this epidemic.
Firstly, the French being so anti vax; we should quarantine them and travellers there (I'd still probably go!) as a general rule even post pandemic. Who knows what filthy diseases the unvaccinated lunatics are bringing with them.
And the Germans! They won't use a vaccine until it's been fully trialled by another people. I want to know how they know it would work on their pure German genes having only been tested on lesser peoples.
I was surprised to read early on how poor flu jab uptake is in places like Germany. Again, the UK does really well with this stuff.
60 MILLION doses of the Novavax Covid vaccine will be made on Teesside, it has tonight been confirmed, after the vaccine passed its UK clinical trial.
The clinical trials have shown the vaccine to be 89.3% effective in preventing coronavirus in participants, as well as efficacy against new UK variant The UK has secured 60 million doses of the vaccine, with manufacturing set to take place at Fujifilm Diosynth in Billingham, Teesside.
Toby Young wraps up for the proposers. Argues that government must always have a cast iron case before suspending our liberties, yet there has been no cost benefit analysis. Suggests the harm of lockdown is worse than the benefit. Says the current measures are unprecedented. Points to multiple studies showing that severity of lockdown makes no difference to mortality (e.g. Cali is no better off than Florida). Underlines the economic damage, and catastrophic consequences for the future, including to education and health. Advocates focused protection of the vulnerable, early border controls, effective tracing, and voluntary sensible precautions for everyone else.
Toby Young?!! Hasn't he been wrong in every material respect since the pandemic began?
Yes, but he ignores the counter evidence and deletes his old tweets so in his mind he is always right.
Isn't that the rule, if you delete it then it never happened?
I've been really surprised what I've found out about the EU's two largest members during this epidemic.
Firstly, the French being so anti vax; we should quarantine them and travellers there (I'd still probably go!) as a general rule even post pandemic. Who knows what filthy diseases the unvaccinated lunatics are bringing with them.
And the Germans! They won't use a vaccine until it's been fully trialled by another people. I want to know how they know it would work on their pure German genes having only been tested on lesser peoples.
I was surprised to read early on how poor flu jab uptake is in places like Germany. Again, the UK does really well with this stuff.
It's one of the major advantages of the NHS rather than more decentralised health systems most other countries have. On the other hand last year the German system reacted much more quickly to the challenge of ramping up testing.
60 MILLION doses of the Novavax Covid vaccine will be made on Teesside, it has tonight been confirmed, after the vaccine passed its UK clinical trial.
The clinical trials have shown the vaccine to be 89.3% effective in preventing coronavirus in participants, as well as efficacy against new UK variant The UK has secured 60 million doses of the vaccine, with manufacturing set to take place at Fujifilm Diosynth in Billingham, Teesside.
I presume it must be, as everyone has made a big deal of the double Boris so if another were single shot we're probably have heard about that detail by now.
60 MILLION doses of the Novavax Covid vaccine will be made on Teesside, it has tonight been confirmed, after the vaccine passed its UK clinical trial.
The clinical trials have shown the vaccine to be 89.3% effective in preventing coronavirus in participants, as well as efficacy against new UK variant The UK has secured 60 million doses of the vaccine, with manufacturing set to take place at Fujifilm Diosynth in Billingham, Teesside.
Is it 1 or 2 dose?
2 doses, 89.3% efficacy 7 days after the second dose. 85% against Kent COVID and 95% against standard.
Britain has secured 30 million doses, with supplies expected to arrive as early as July if the trial data is positive.
Maybe if we shout at them really loudly and send around the police and the health inspectors every day they will make it quicker?
It all adds up. With Pfizer, Moderna, AZN and now these new vaccines (all of which are contracted to the UK, if not made here) we have a real chance of something close to herd immunity by early summer (depending on NO MUTATIONS).
The EU's prognosis is less good. They need us, as much, if not more, than we need them, right now. Either way, co-operation is all. So they should dial down their fucking nonsense, and just accept their procurement was not good, but it will hugely improve, as time passes.
They really are being twats. We've fucked on up on quarantine, and other things, but we got lucky AND done well on jabs, sequencing, etc, they've fucked up and were unlucky on vaccines, sequencing, but they've done well in other ways: quarantining, masks, social distance, and so forth.
It's not a pissing up the urinal contest. It is human life. No one is perfect. We all want to live.
So Brussels should stop this nonsense about "banning vaccine exports", or they will make a very grim situation worse, for all.
✔️ 89% efficiency ✔️ Tested on super kent covid ✔️ Teeside manufacture ✔️ 60 million doses on order
Will the folks that have had AZ and Pfizer be entitled to this one? We'll all be walking pin cushions by the end of the year
I think the number of times we end up going round the vaccine merry-go-round depends on how many nasty variants arise here, or are imported and manage to become established, but one could easily envision shielders and pensioners at least being invited back for another round of jabs later in the Autumn.
Which rather puts things in perspective for me. The EU is struggling to match the spend of its leaving member, even though we've only spent one year of our former annual fee to them.
WTF are they playing at?
"With this letter from Spahn [German Health Minister] the EU's vaccine disaster began"
It is THE central document in the vaccine disaster!
A letter that shows how Health Minister Jens Spahn (40, CDU) and his counterparts from France, Italy and the Netherlands ceded procurement of the life-saving vaccine to EU Commission President Ursula von der Leyen (62) and in a humble tone apologized for their efforts on vaccine procurement. The letter is exclusively available to BILD.
According to BILD information, it was important to both Chancellor Angela Merkel (66, CDU) and von der Leyen that the letter from Spahn and his colleagues was written in the most obsequious tone possible.
Who is going to take the political hit from this - Merkel or Spahn?
Are we sure we are getting this new vaccine so quickly?
The vaccine will be delivered in the second half of this year, if approved for use by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), who will assess whether the vaccine meets robust standards of safety, effectiveness and quality.
On all three of those schemes it turned out to be a win for HMG. I'm convinced the only reason they wanted the UK to join the EU scheme (despite the UK not actually being a member) was ideological.
Are we sure we are getting this new vaccine so quickly?
The vaccine will be delivered in the second half of this year, if approved for use by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), who will assess whether the vaccine meets robust standards of safety, effectiveness and quality.
Are we sure we are getting this new vaccine so quickly?
The vaccine will be delivered in the second half of this year, if approved for use by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), who will assess whether the vaccine meets robust standards of safety, effectiveness and quality.
I also remember asking once if we might end up helping the EU with our vaccine surplus. I was told that this was obviously wrong and rampant nationalism.
At the time I didn't realise that EU banditry was so readily described by remainiacs.
The South Africa trial was relatively small — with just 4,400 volunteers — and was not designed to come up with a precise estimate of how much protection the vaccine provides. Still, the results were striking enough that the company said it would soon begin testing a new vaccine tailored to protect against the variant from South Africa. “You’re going to have to make new vaccines,” Mr. Erck said.
The South Africa trial was relatively small — with just 4,400 volunteers — and was not designed to come up with a precise estimate of how much protection the vaccine provides. Still, the results were striking enough that the company said it would soon begin testing a new vaccine tailored to protect against the variant from South Africa. “You’re going to have to make new vaccines,” Mr. Erck said.
In the 94% of the study population that did not have HIV, the efficacy was 60%. One patient on placebo developed severe Covid-19, compared with zero in the vaccine group.
Its not 90% for cockey COVID, but it isn't total disaster stuff either.
But in a 4,400-volunteer study in South Africa, the vaccine proved only 49% effective. In the 94% of the study population that did not have HIV, the efficacy was 60%.
I don't think those numbers add up. 6% of 4,400 is 264. So non-HIV = 4,136 @ 60% = 2482 effective 49% of 4,400 is just under 2,200.
There cannot be more effective results in the subset than there is in the whole.
TRUCKWATCH - on the way to fathers funeral traffic on A12 / M25 / M23 examined - lots of foreign registered trucks on the roads
Entirely unsurprising.
Regardless of how tight border controls become, we're always going to be at some risk of importing Plague cases because we're too dependent on road haulage for trade (even if truckers are relatively low risk, given that they spend most of the time alone in their cabs.) An important issue to be addressed when this nightmare is finally over.
Though it won't be addressed, of course.
Each week since the 1st January our Asda order has been complete, including fresh fruit and vegetables, and our orders are larger than pre covid as we just do not go to the supermarket
I have not experienced any shortages, and indeed everything has been delivered from Amazon without any issues
I have no evidence that Brexit has had any effect
Waitrose in Cowbridge had many empty shelves last night. If it's definitely not Brexit, it must be further evidence of Drakeford's Covid mismanagement.
Mark Drakeford has gone from Zero to Hero.
Mark is now in second place in the Great Vaccine Race. He has overtaken first Nicola and then Arlene. He is now chasing down the Shagster.
Next step, Mark is going to commandeer the Wrecsam vaccine plant and announce no more exports to England, until all of Wales is done.
But other than hiding the Pfizer vaccines in his freezer so nobody could get any, Drakeford has had no hand in vaccine provision in Wales. Hats off to the NHS Nurses and RAF personnel managing the provision here in South Wales.
August 14th: Under the terms of the agreement, Novavax will supply 60 million doses of NVX-CoV2373 to the UK beginning as early as the first quarter of 2021. Excess supply of antigen manufactured at the FUJIFILM Diosynth Biotechnologies site in Billingham, Stockton-on-Tees may be available for Novavax to sell to additional markets outside the UK.
Are we sure we are getting this new vaccine so quickly?
The vaccine will be delivered in the second half of this year, if approved for use by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), who will assess whether the vaccine meets robust standards of safety, effectiveness and quality.
1. IIRC we're not expected to finish the whole vaccination programme until September, according to Government estimates. Having another vaccine available during the Summer may help to get younger people jabbed more quickly, which still helps (will save material numbers from suffering Long Covid, and cut the available pool of infected persons who might generate the dreaded mutations down more quickly.) 2. More manufacturers active = more doses that can be sold or given away to countries still suffering 3. Also, more manufacturers active = enhanced ability to respond quickly if we need modified vaccines in future
One might also add:
4. Establishing a large, permanent UK vaccine industry gives other advantages - research and development into combatting a whole host of other diseases, both at home and abroad, and a reservoir of expertise ready to go to work the next time a plague is unleashed upon us
TRUCKWATCH - on the way to fathers funeral traffic on A12 / M25 / M23 examined - lots of foreign registered trucks on the roads
Entirely unsurprising.
Regardless of how tight border controls become, we're always going to be at some risk of importing Plague cases because we're too dependent on road haulage for trade (even if truckers are relatively low risk, given that they spend most of the time alone in their cabs.) An important issue to be addressed when this nightmare is finally over.
Though it won't be addressed, of course.
Each week since the 1st January our Asda order has been complete, including fresh fruit and vegetables, and our orders are larger than pre covid as we just do not go to the supermarket
I have not experienced any shortages, and indeed everything has been delivered from Amazon without any issues
I have no evidence that Brexit has had any effect
Waitrose in Cowbridge had many empty shelves last night. If it's definitely not Brexit, it must be further evidence of Drakeford's Covid mismanagement.
Mark Drakeford has gone from Zero to Hero.
Mark is now in second place in the Great Vaccine Race. He has overtaken first Nicola and then Arlene. He is now chasing down the Shagster.
Next step, Mark is going to commandeer the Wrecsam vaccine plant and announce no more exports to England, until all of Wales is done.
But other than hiding the Pfizer vaccines in his freezer so nobody could get any, Drakeford has had no hand in vaccine provision in Wales. Hats off to the NHS Nurses and RAF personnel managing the provision here in South Wales.
It's devolved, isn't it? Or are you saying there is no political decision made regarding vaccines whatsoever in Wales?
The is the idiot who was moaning about some PPE being withdrawn because it was defective, even though such things happen hundreds of times per year for medical products even when there isn't a pandemic. He is a bit of a berk, not half as clever or as funny as he thinks he is.
August 14th: Under the terms of the agreement, Novavax will supply 60 million doses of NVX-CoV2373 to the UK beginning as early as the first quarter of 2021. Excess supply of antigen manufactured at the FUJIFILM Diosynth Biotechnologies site in Billingham, Stockton-on-Tees may be available for Novavax to sell to additional markets outside the UK.
TRUCKWATCH - on the way to fathers funeral traffic on A12 / M25 / M23 examined - lots of foreign registered trucks on the roads
Entirely unsurprising.
Regardless of how tight border controls become, we're always going to be at some risk of importing Plague cases because we're too dependent on road haulage for trade (even if truckers are relatively low risk, given that they spend most of the time alone in their cabs.) An important issue to be addressed when this nightmare is finally over.
Though it won't be addressed, of course.
Each week since the 1st January our Asda order has been complete, including fresh fruit and vegetables, and our orders are larger than pre covid as we just do not go to the supermarket
I have not experienced any shortages, and indeed everything has been delivered from Amazon without any issues
I have no evidence that Brexit has had any effect
Waitrose in Cowbridge had many empty shelves last night. If it's definitely not Brexit, it must be further evidence of Drakeford's Covid mismanagement.
Mark Drakeford has gone from Zero to Hero.
Mark is now in second place in the Great Vaccine Race. He has overtaken first Nicola and then Arlene. He is now chasing down the Shagster.
Next step, Mark is going to commandeer the Wrecsam vaccine plant and announce no more exports to England, until all of Wales is done.
On all three of those schemes it turned out to be a win for HMG. I'm convinced the only reason they wanted the UK to join the EU scheme (despite the UK not actually being a member) was ideological.
Of course it was, it couldn't possibly have been due to any real analysis of the merits of being in or out, as you could probably fit the people capable of making such a call into a single small office.
August 14th: Under the terms of the agreement, Novavax will supply 60 million doses of NVX-CoV2373 to the UK beginning as early as the first quarter of 2021. Excess supply of antigen manufactured at the FUJIFILM Diosynth Biotechnologies site in Billingham, Stockton-on-Tees may be available for Novavax to sell to additional markets outside the UK.
I don't know where this July timeframe is coming from, I sat through a pretty long presentation last week that said they were already in manufacturing with a pilot production process which is in scale up with volume deliveries set for "late Q1".
In the 94% of the study population that did not have HIV, the efficacy was 60%. One patient on placebo developed severe Covid-19, compared with zero in the vaccine group.
Its not 90% for cockey COVID, but it isn't total disaster stuff either.
But in a 4,400-volunteer study in South Africa, the vaccine proved only 49% effective. In the 94% of the study population that did not have HIV, the efficacy was 60%.
I don't think those numbers add up. 6% of 4,400 is 264. So non-HIV = 4,136 @ 60% = 2482 effective 49% of 4,400 is just under 2,200.
There cannot be more effective results in the subset than there is in the whole.
Perhaps that bloke from Handelsblatt has been moonlighting?
Anyway, I'm sure plenty of other numbers (not to mention the full peer-reviewed write-up) will be available for PBers to pick over in due course.
In the 94% of the study population that did not have HIV, the efficacy was 60%. One patient on placebo developed severe Covid-19, compared with zero in the vaccine group.
Its not 90% for cockey COVID, but it isn't total disaster stuff either.
But in a 4,400-volunteer study in South Africa, the vaccine proved only 49% effective. In the 94% of the study population that did not have HIV, the efficacy was 60%.
I don't think those numbers add up. 6% of 4,400 is 264. So non-HIV = 4,136 @ 60% = 2482 effective 49% of 4,400 is just under 2,200.
There cannot be more effective results in the subset than there is in the whole.
On all three of those schemes it turned out to be a win for HMG. I'm convinced the only reason they wanted the UK to join the EU scheme (despite the UK not actually being a member) was ideological.
I recall at the time thinking it a poor seeming decision, taken for ideological reasons in opposition to the EU, but the strength of that type of reaction must have been over the top even at the time.
August 14th: Under the terms of the agreement, Novavax will supply 60 million doses of NVX-CoV2373 to the UK beginning as early as the first quarter of 2021. Excess supply of antigen manufactured at the FUJIFILM Diosynth Biotechnologies site in Billingham, Stockton-on-Tees may be available for Novavax to sell to additional markets outside the UK.
I don't know where this July timeframe is coming from, I sat through a pretty long presentation last week that said they were already in manufacturing with a pilot production process which is in scale up with volume deliveries set for "late Q1".
I hope that isn't like my 3080Ti was supposed to be coming Q1.....
If anything, that makes me more sympathetic to Bojo and Carrie. They are suffering this shit like the rest of us (as they should). They are lonely, bored, frustrated, and prone to depression.
August 14th: Under the terms of the agreement, Novavax will supply 60 million doses of NVX-CoV2373 to the UK beginning as early as the first quarter of 2021. Excess supply of antigen manufactured at the FUJIFILM Diosynth Biotechnologies site in Billingham, Stockton-on-Tees may be available for Novavax to sell to additional markets outside the UK.
I don't know where this July timeframe is coming from, I sat through a pretty long presentation last week that said they were already in manufacturing with a pilot production process which is in scale up with volume deliveries set for "late Q1".
I hope that isn't like my 3080Ti was supposed to be coming Q1.....
Just do what Cartman did with his iPad and slap a 3080Ti sticker on your old 2080.
I've now said a number of times that the Germans want to use other peoples as guinea pigs. Nobody has protested on their behalf. Does that mean I'm right, or that it's such a ludicrous suggestion (despite the evidence of the guinea pig they've used in Israel for Pfizer and which they're bound to use in us for AZ and others).
All of which is extremely impressive - of that there is no doubt. We decided to bet the bank (financially) on human ingenuity and that's a bet which will always come in.
I'm firmly convinced more and better vaccines will come along before too long.
I'm still doubtful of the strategy behind the vaccination programme but I cannot but admire at how efficient and effective the logistics are though my anecdotal experience is there are considerable inconsistencies across the country. We need to ensure the vaccination programme is effective everywhere and is reaching all it needs to as quickly as possible - there's no point one area getting to the 40 year olds while another is struggling to finish the 70 year olds.
It's not just about numbers but ensuring those most at risk are vaccinated as a priority.
The efficacy figures of the later vaccines are also re-assuring though the longevity of such an immunity remains, I suppose, open to question. I suspect we'll need another full vaccination programme in the autumn though again with improvements in vaccine we may be able to go longer periods between vaccinations as time goes on.
I'm also hugely impressed with the vaccine responses to new variants - it is a form of "arms" race (pun slightly intended) as vaccination tries to keep pace with any new mutations of the virus.
“ Downing Street has refused to rule out the possibility of the UK sending vaccine supplies to the EU once the most vulnerable people in the UK have been vaccinated, assuming the timetable to vaccinate other adults by September stays on track. “
Do it Boris. Don’t listen to the rabid anti Christian ravers on PB. Their only religion is frothed up hatred of EU, that’s not Brexit is it?
Once vulnerable people in UK have been jabbed, share it Boris.
Keep your religion in your church please.
I think you'll find everyone here said that the EU getting doses once everyone in the UK has had it would be fair enough. You were saying to do it before vaccinations here are completed.
Agreed. Once our over 60s and potentially then key workers are done I would understand if vaccines for the likes of myself were diverted to help priority groups in Europe.
When I said completed I meant completed. Everyone done.
Insisting on everyone in one country being done before the vulnerable elsewhere is exactly the sort of vaccine nationalism that will prolong the pandemic.
Er, what? I'm happy to wait until older and more vulnerable Britons have been protected, but no way am I waiting until all those groups in the entire EU have been done! There's altruism, and then there's masochistic martyrdom.
A natural enough impulse but the decision makers will hopefully be more far-sighted. From each according to their abilities. To each according to their needs. This must be more than a platitude on the global vaccination. It must be the guiding spirit. Otherwise forget about getting out of this before many more years have passed.
In your world do we have to wait for Germany to vax all over 65s with Pfizer before we're allowed to vax the rest of ours with AZ?
No. Of course not.
You said it was right for us to divert our vaccines to the EU until all their priority groups are done.
You want us to make a special case against Germany?
I didn't. You're being anal. I'm saying we must avoid a nationalistic "competition" approach to vaccination. We need a guiding MO of pragmatic collectivism. If everyone here is done and nobody in France - say - this is a failure. It might be their failure but so what. Their failure is everyone's. We need an internationalist approach. The point is even more obvious with poorer countries. It's not altruism. It's the only way to get out of this.
Our government has paid seven times more per capita than the apparently wealthier and more powerful EU to get our citizens - who are still dying far faster than our ill-prepared neighbours - vaccinated first, and you want us to give it away to them?
Pure, unadulterated remainia.
We're at cross purposes. I'm saying something and you're hearing something else.
...through the government’s Vaccine Taskforce, the UK has secured early access to 367 million doses of 7 of the most promising vaccine candidates, including: - BioNTech/Pfizer – Approved - 40 million doses secured - Oxford/Astra Zeneca –Approved - 100 million doses secured - Moderna – Approved - 17 million doses secured - Novavax – Phase III - 60 million doses secured - Janssen – Phase III - 30 million doses secured - GSK/Sanofi – Phase I / II - 60 million doses secured - Valneva – Phase I / II - 60 million doses secured, with an option to acquire a further 130 million if the vaccine is proven to be safe, effective and suitable.
Puts tinfoil hat on....The UK government response to the temper tantrum from the EU has been remarkable calm and collected, you don't think they knew this news already? And have an idea about J&J one as well do you?
“ Downing Street has refused to rule out the possibility of the UK sending vaccine supplies to the EU once the most vulnerable people in the UK have been vaccinated, assuming the timetable to vaccinate other adults by September stays on track. “
Do it Boris. Don’t listen to the rabid anti Christian ravers on PB. Their only religion is frothed up hatred of EU, that’s not Brexit is it?
Once vulnerable people in UK have been jabbed, share it Boris.
Keep your religion in your church please.
I think you'll find everyone here said that the EU getting doses once everyone in the UK has had it would be fair enough. You were saying to do it before vaccinations here are completed.
Agreed. Once our over 60s and potentially then key workers are done I would understand if vaccines for the likes of myself were diverted to help priority groups in Europe.
When I said completed I meant completed. Everyone done.
Insisting on everyone in one country being done before the vulnerable elsewhere is exactly the sort of vaccine nationalism that will prolong the pandemic.
Er, what? I'm happy to wait until older and more vulnerable Britons have been protected, but no way am I waiting until all those groups in the entire EU have been done! There's altruism, and then there's masochistic martyrdom.
A natural enough impulse but the decision makers will hopefully be more far-sighted. From each according to their abilities. To each according to their needs. This must be more than a platitude on the global vaccination. It must be the guiding spirit. Otherwise forget about getting out of this before many more years have passed.
In your world do we have to wait for Germany to vax all over 65s with Pfizer before we're allowed to vax the rest of ours with AZ?
No. Of course not.
You said it was right for us to divert our vaccines to the EU until all their priority groups are done.
You want us to make a special case against Germany?
I didn't. You're being anal. I'm saying we must avoid a nationalistic "competition" approach to vaccination. We need a guiding MO of pragmatic collectivism. If everyone here is done and nobody in France - say - this is a failure. It might be their failure but so what. Their failure is everyone's. We need an internationalist approach. The point is even more obvious with poorer countries. It's not altruism. It's the only way to get out of this.
Yes it is their failure and it is their responsibility to prevent themselves from failing, to take responsibility for their actions and to do better.
In this country the vaccine should be used to eliminate the virus. Once that's done people can get back to work, stop shielding, lift restrictions and rebuild businesses that have been shuttered. That is the only way to get out of this.
After we're out of this we can assist others in catching up with us.
For someone like Ms Cyclefree who is struggling to keep alive her bar why the hell should we keep her under restrictions or worse closed while we ship our vaccines to France because they failed to buy enough? We need to look after ourselves then get on with charity.
Completely the wrong mindset. It's a global pandemic.
All of which is extremely impressive - of that there is no doubt. We decided to bet the bank (financially) on human ingenuity and that's a bet which will always come in.
I'm firmly convinced more and better vaccines will come along before too long.
I'm still doubtful of the strategy behind the vaccination programme but I cannot but admire at how efficient and effective the logistics are though my anecdotal experience is there are considerable inconsistencies across the country. We need to ensure the vaccination programme is effective everywhere and is reaching all it needs to as quickly as possible - there's no point one area getting to the 40 year olds while another is struggling to finish the 70 year olds.
It's not just about numbers but ensuring those most at risk are vaccinated as a priority.
The efficacy figures of the later vaccines are also re-assuring though the longevity of such an immunity remains, I suppose, open to question. I suspect we'll need another full vaccination programme in the autumn though again with improvements in vaccine we may be able to go longer periods between vaccinations as time goes on.
I'm also hugely impressed with the vaccine responses to new variants - it is a form of "arms" race (pun slightly intended) as vaccination tries to keep pace with any new mutations of the virus.
Vaccination is a numbers game, the order doesn't matter so much if we do 4-5m per week as you get through the adult population in 10 weeks. It only matters if the numbers are small, under 1m per week. Thankfully our infrastructure can support 4-5m jabs per week, we just need the supply issues to resolve themselves over the next few weeks. This new vaccine will help that I hope.
I like the fact that most of those calling us xenophobic bigots are complaining at the people who are saying morally it it better to help the third world that european nations.....the thought occurs they are total hypocritical bigots
I'm not moralising or name calling. I'm just making the point that a nationalistic warrior approach is the wrong one here. It will get in the way.
The announcement from Novavax raises the stakes for Johnson & Johnson. The company was expected to announce its results as early as last weekend, and the delay has triggered speculation among scientists that the firm has also discovered that its vaccine worked less well in South African trial volunteers who were infected with the variant. In an earnings call on Tuesday, Alex Gorsky, the chief executive officer of the company, said they were looking forward to sharing results from their late-stage trial by early next week.
The gov.uk press release for the Novavax announcement has dropped. Unless I'm being blind there's no indication of production/delivery schedules unfortunately, but there is at least this reassurance with regard to the trials:
"The data published today come from more than 15,000 people who were recruited through the National Institute of Health Research vaccine registry, which was launched in July 2020 to support the UK’s efforts to deliver vaccines for COVID-19. Nearly 4,000 people in the study were over the age of 65."
So, no repeat of the ambiguity about the olds seen with the Oxford jab.
If anything, that makes me more sympathetic to Bojo and Carrie. They are suffering this shit like the rest of us (as they should). They are lonely, bored, frustrated, and prone to depression.
Comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8pfngxnCYc
"French firm Valneva has started manufacturing 60 million doses of its promising Covid vaccine candidate in Livingston."
Sorry, Paris, you can't have any of that. Vaccine nationalism, eh. Who knew? We're just off to *raid* the factory
Britain has secured 30 million doses, with supplies expected to arrive as early as July if the trial data is positive.
Maybe if we shout at them really loudly and send around the police and the health inspectors every day they will make it quicker?
I think we can safely assume that the MHRA will tear through the paperwork as quickly as humanly possible. Any word on production timescales?
moraleproduction improves.Firstly, the French being so anti vax; we should quarantine them and travellers there (I'd still probably go!) as a general rule even post pandemic. Who knows what filthy diseases the unvaccinated lunatics are bringing with them.
And the Germans! They won't use a vaccine until it's been fully trialled by another people. I want to know how they know it would work on their pure German genes having only been tested on lesser peoples.
On the other hand last year the German system reacted much more quickly to the challenge of ramping up testing.
I presume it must be, as everyone has made a big deal of the double Boris so if another were single shot we're probably have heard about that detail by now.
The EU's prognosis is less good. They need us, as much, if not more, than we need them, right now. Either way, co-operation is all. So they should dial down their fucking nonsense, and just accept their procurement was not good, but it will hugely improve, as time passes.
They really are being twats. We've fucked on up on quarantine, and other things, but we got lucky AND done well on jabs, sequencing, etc, they've fucked up and were unlucky on vaccines, sequencing, but they've done well in other ways: quarantining, masks, social distance, and so forth.
It's not a pissing up the urinal contest. It is human life. No one is perfect. We all want to live.
So Brussels should stop this nonsense about "banning vaccine exports", or they will make a very grim situation worse, for all.
https://twitter.com/davidschneider/status/1281499566567825408?s=20
The vaccine will be delivered in the second half of this year, if approved for use by the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), who will assess whether the vaccine meets robust standards of safety, effectiveness and quality.
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/19047646.teesside-make-60-million-doses-novavax-covid-vaccine-passes-uk-trial/
Better not forget we have 13 Group covering the North, alert to any surprise raids without Barnier escort across the North Sea.
At the time I didn't realise that EU banditry was so readily described by remainiacs.
AZN 100m - 2 dose
Pfizer 40m - 2 dose
Moderna 7m - 2 dose
Novavax 60m - 2 dose ?
Valneva 60m - 2 dose ?
Janssen 30m +22m - 1 dose
The South Africa trial was relatively small — with just 4,400 volunteers — and was not designed to come up with a precise estimate of how much protection the vaccine provides. Still, the results were striking enough that the company said it would soon begin testing a new vaccine tailored to protect against the variant from South Africa. “You’re going to have to make new vaccines,” Mr. Erck said.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/health/covid-vaccine-novavax-south-africa.html
AZN said they are already working on a new version.
https://twitter.com/gerryhassan/status/1354905053509922817?s=21
https://ir.novavax.com/node/15506/pdf
49% of 4,400 is just under 2,200.
There cannot be more effective results in the subset than there is in the whole.
https://ir.novavax.com/node/15506/pdf
1. IIRC we're not expected to finish the whole vaccination programme until September, according to Government estimates. Having another vaccine available during the Summer may help to get younger people jabbed more quickly, which still helps (will save material numbers from suffering Long Covid, and cut the available pool of infected persons who might generate the dreaded mutations down more quickly.)
2. More manufacturers active = more doses that can be sold or given away to countries still suffering
3. Also, more manufacturers active = enhanced ability to respond quickly if we need modified vaccines in future
One might also add:
4. Establishing a large, permanent UK vaccine industry gives other advantages - research and development into combatting a whole host of other diseases, both at home and abroad, and a reservoir of expertise ready to go to work the next time a plague is unleashed upon us
What's not to like?
Anyway, I'm sure plenty of other numbers (not to mention the full peer-reviewed write-up) will be available for PBers to pick over in due course.
https://www.statnews.com/2021/01/28/novavax-says-its-covid-19-vaccine-is-90-effective-but-far-less-so-against-one-variant/?utm_content=bufferc1fbf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=twitter_organic
Perhaps the full article elaborates
It's a damn plague. This is what it is.
I've now said a number of times that the Germans want to use other peoples as guinea pigs. Nobody has protested on their behalf. Does that mean I'm right, or that it's such a ludicrous suggestion (despite the evidence of the guinea pig they've used in Israel for Pfizer and which they're bound to use in us for AZ and others).
At least they're not forcing it on us, I suppose.
https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1354899824370462722
Even if the UK doesn't need the supply it can be donated, through the DfID, to other countries.
I'm firmly convinced more and better vaccines will come along before too long.
I'm still doubtful of the strategy behind the vaccination programme but I cannot but admire at how efficient and effective the logistics are though my anecdotal experience is there are considerable inconsistencies across the country. We need to ensure the vaccination programme is effective everywhere and is reaching all it needs to as quickly as possible - there's no point one area getting to the 40 year olds while another is struggling to finish the 70 year olds.
It's not just about numbers but ensuring those most at risk are vaccinated as a priority.
The efficacy figures of the later vaccines are also re-assuring though the longevity of such an immunity remains, I suppose, open to question. I suspect we'll need another full vaccination programme in the autumn though again with improvements in vaccine we may be able to go longer periods between vaccinations as time goes on.
I'm also hugely impressed with the vaccine responses to new variants - it is a form of "arms" race (pun slightly intended) as vaccination tries to keep pace with any new mutations of the virus.
- BioNTech/Pfizer – Approved - 40 million doses secured
- Oxford/Astra Zeneca –Approved - 100 million doses secured
- Moderna – Approved - 17 million doses secured
- Novavax – Phase III - 60 million doses secured
- Janssen – Phase III - 30 million doses secured
- GSK/Sanofi – Phase I / II - 60 million doses secured
- Valneva – Phase I / II - 60 million doses secured, with an option to acquire a further 130 million if the vaccine is proven to be safe, effective and suitable.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/novavax-publishes-positive-efficacy-data-for-its-covid-19-vaccine
Well it's no wonder the EU think these companies overpromise if even their slogans promise to bend time.
And I also want to know how much it (Novavax) protects against severe illness.
AZN refuse to divert UK supplies to the EU
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/28/health/covid-vaccine-novavax-south-africa.html
"The data published today come from more than 15,000 people who were recruited through the National Institute of Health Research vaccine registry, which was launched in July 2020 to support the UK’s efforts to deliver vaccines for COVID-19. Nearly 4,000 people in the study were over the age of 65."
So, no repeat of the ambiguity about the olds seen with the Oxford jab.