By which he means, 'around 4 million people have received the FIRST DOSE of a vaccine.'
Which is not at all the same thing.
It's not about the efficacy, its about the numbers vacinated before September. This is the politics of Covid now, and Johnson is winning the Covid PR battle hands down, a massive improvement from the Cummings era.
So what if we all need two shots this time next year because the first, single dose only programme didn't give us the required resistance? The PR war against Covid is won, and it has been won by the Conservative Party. BBC lunchtime news was all about vaccine numbers, nothing about hospitalisations and deaths, those stats are so 2020.
Surely the strategy is based on the efficacy, as proposed by that famous Boris fan, erm, Tony Blair?
There's a 12-week gap as this maximises protection across the nation.
Do you oppose that strategy? If so, why?
And potentially gives the best immune response for the individual as well. We have clinical evidence for AZ and after speaking to an immunology expert they suggested that the body's immune response 9-15 weeks post infection was the best time for a second dose as it would have a much stronger effect than after 3-6 weeks, this is something that is seen in other vaccine programmes and in diseases responses. We may have stumbled upon the best strategy for the vaccine both in public health and immune response terms. The cost is that individuals who have been jabbed a single time need to spend an extra 9 weeks being careful in lockdown because they will have ~70% immunity rather than 95% immunity. I think it's a small price to pay.
"Love it". There's that 17% again. The basket of deplorables.
Loving the national anthem makes you deplorable?
No wonder you would rather support a fascist regime invading a free democracy than see people in a free democracy choosing to maintain connections to Britain.
I dislike the anthem, as an atheist republican it does nothing for me, but I respect those that like it.
Just from a musical point of view I find it hard to respect the taste of people who like GSTQ.
For whatever reason it's only the Marsellaise, of national anthems, that I find myself humming at random - and only the star-spangled banner that I learnt to play on tin whistle.
Watch for the gotcha on UK vaccinations numbers on Mondays. Scotland and Wales have dumped what looks like the last 2-3 days worth of data in todays figures i.e. no way Scotland did 40k and Wales 25k just yesterday.
"Love it". There's that 17% again. The basket of deplorables.
Loving the national anthem makes you deplorable?
No wonder you would rather support a fascist regime invading a free democracy than see people in a free democracy choosing to maintain connections to Britain.
I dislike the anthem, as an atheist republican it does nothing for me, but I respect those that like it.
Just from a musical point of view I find it hard to respect the taste of people who like GSTQ.
For whatever reason it's only the Marsellaise, of national anthems, that I find myself humming at random - and only the star-spangled banner that I learnt to play on tin whistle.
As someone who doesn't like GSTQ by biggest fear is that it is replaced by the bloody dirge that is Jerusalem.
Even I like La Marseillaise, well when I'm not singing 'ou est le papier' to it.
Compare and contrast with the Bush family showing the Obama family round.... complete with Obama kids using a sloped corridor as a slide, to smiles from all the adults.
I read that the Obama family were really touched by the efforts that the Bush family made to make them feel welcome and make the handover as smooth as possible. I know Obama also said Bush did everything he could to make the power transition as smooth and professional as possible.
There’s several sources for that story. Apparently GWB noted the way he was treated on the way in (a curious mixture of outward warmth but petty actions such as the staffers removing the W keys from computers), and resolved that he would go out of his way to treat his successor with the dignity deserving of the office, no matter who they were or which party they represented. A small insight into the man himself.
Yes, to reverse the normal saying dim but nice sums up GWB, he is a gent even if he was not really up to the job.
Do we have about a billion high grade disposable masks lying about ready for immediate distribution to the entire population of the country to use every time they go to work or visit the supermarket, or are we all meant to sit at home and starve to death if we don't have one?
Speaking more generally, I am glad that the Plague situation is marginally less terrible then I had feared by this juncture, although the tsunami of corpses is well underway and there's still time for the ever-increasing numbers of hospital patients to collapse the healthcare system. Vaccination progress appears much better, but there's definitely a postcode lottery in operation. If we get to the point where Newcastle is jabbing fortysomethings when London is still crawling its way through the nonagenarians then expect severe ructions.
Rather obvious problem with that. The question didn't say WHICH the anthem is. Not something one can count on folk knowing. Jerusalem, for instance?
Even a plurality of Scots like it, I highly doubt that would be the case if they thought it was Jerusalem rather than GSTQ
So? Could be Swing low, or whatever English rugger buggers sing in contrapuntion to Scots r. bs. belting out Flower of Scotland (not my favourite either).
It's a meaningless survey.
I think FOS is a pretty good tune.
But the Welsh national anthem (LOMF) is the best in these isles.
If not that, they need to be on a leash and muzzled at all times.
Richmond Park dog walker fined £602 over pet's 'relentless' fatal attack on deer
Police are urging dog owners to keep their pets on a tight lead after an increase in attacks during lockdown.
A man has been fined £602 after his dog fatally injured a deer during a "relentless" attack in London's Richmond Park.
Dramatic footage filmed by a cyclist shows Franck Hiribarne's red setter, Alfie, rushing at the small hind, jumping up at her and dragging her backwards, at around 9am on 1 October last year.
Despite the efforts of several passers-by to get between the animals, forming a human barrier to stop the attack, Alfie left the deer with deep wounds to her back and tail, which was partially detached.
The hind also suffered a broken leg after being hit by a car in her attempts to get away.
She was found a short while later, collapsed in the ferns, and had to be put down by a gamekeeper.
Mr Hiribarne, from southwest London, pleaded guilty at Wimbledon Magistrates' Court on 15 January to causing or permitting an animal he was in charge of to injure another animal in a royal park. He was fined £602.
The defendant reported the incident himself to the Royal Parks Office, while witnesses - some of whom described the attack as "relentless" - spoke to officers in a passing police car.
Rather obvious problem with that. The question didn't say WHICH the anthem is. Not something one can count on folk knowing. Jerusalem, for instance?
AIUI there is no official national anthem of the UK, although GSTQ is sanctioned by usage.
I think Jerusalem should be the English national anthem – it's a rousing tune.
The Londonderry Air (Oh Danny Boy) at least used to be the NI national anthem, but the title might be problematic.
Very soft spot for Blake myself.
Indeed. But I'm not persuaded the theme tune for Blake's 7 would gain universal approval.
I approve! It's actually a great theme tune - started watching it on Britbox! Not sure if I'll stick with it, Series 1 is so low budget it looks like a play. But the theme tune is ace. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r0YLevRJ1nA
If not that, they need to be on a leash and muzzled at all times.
Richmond Park dog walker fined £602 over pet's 'relentless' fatal attack on deer
Police are urging dog owners to keep their pets on a tight lead after an increase in attacks during lockdown.
A man has been fined £602 after his dog fatally injured a deer during a "relentless" attack in London's Richmond Park.
Dramatic footage filmed by a cyclist shows Franck Hiribarne's red setter, Alfie, rushing at the small hind, jumping up at her and dragging her backwards, at around 9am on 1 October last year.
Despite the efforts of several passers-by to get between the animals, forming a human barrier to stop the attack, Alfie left the deer with deep wounds to her back and tail, which was partially detached.
The hind also suffered a broken leg after being hit by a car in her attempts to get away.
She was found a short while later, collapsed in the ferns, and had to be put down by a gamekeeper.
Mr Hiribarne, from southwest London, pleaded guilty at Wimbledon Magistrates' Court on 15 January to causing or permitting an animal he was in charge of to injure another animal in a royal park. He was fined £602.
The defendant reported the incident himself to the Royal Parks Office, while witnesses - some of whom described the attack as "relentless" - spoke to officers in a passing police car.
Red setters are horrid little dogs. They look nice though.
You must be very big, if you consider a Red Setter to be "little".
I'm 6.2. I suppose they're medium.
In bare feet and not on tip toes?
If so, that's unusual.
Roughly the 95th percentile for British males at age 18. You'd expect at least 16 MPs to be that tall, even if you had a perfect gender balance.
Yes, very unusual. This is why I always doublecheck when somebody says they are that tall.
I knew a chap at Uni who shared a high occupancy flat (about 17 people I think). He was around 6 foot. ALL the other guys in the house were taller, some considerably. He said it was wierd to always feel smaller than people (but obviously only when with his house mates...) I told him its how I feel all the time!
By which he means, 'around 4 million people have received the FIRST DOSE of a vaccine.'
Which is not at all the same thing.
It's not about the efficacy, its about the numbers vacinated before September. This is the politics of Covid now, and Johnson is winning the Covid PR battle hands down, a massive improvement from the Cummings era.
So what if we all need two shots this time next year because the first, single dose only programme didn't give us the required resistance? The PR war against Covid is won, and it has been won by the Conservative Party. BBC lunchtime news was all about vaccine numbers, nothing about hospitalisations and deaths, those stats are so 2020.
Surely the strategy is based on the efficacy, as proposed by that famous Boris fan, erm, Tony Blair?
There's a 12-week gap as this maximises protection across the nation.
Do you oppose that strategy? If so, why?
The vaccination rollout has been a logistical triumph. It has (quite rightly) been a PR triumph too for the Government that organised it. Vaccination provision (quite justifiably ) is now the only metric worth contemplating. I can see the logic in vaccinating everyone with the first dose, and that is fine, but concerns have been raised that if the second dose misses the appropriate window, the process may have to be repeated from scratch. It is a balancing act. One dose for everyone, might be the best way to balance limited supply.
I'm not sure there's much evidence for what the 'appropriate window' in that respect is though. I think that 12 weeks was selected as antibody levels tend to tail off significantly after that, but I think the concern is more over what might happen should you get infected before the second shot, rather than that the booster won't work.
Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.
The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.
Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
Trump supporters are even crazier than you. I don't think that President Harris would phase them as they have a lot of bullets.
I don't want either of them assassinated. But the lunatic arrested at the weekend with a forged inauguration pass, guns and bullets shows the threat is clear.
And if Biden and Harris are assassinated then they end up with President Pelosi who would be a Trump supporter's worst nightmare.
In any case it is highly unlikely a few crazed backwoodsmen would be able to breach the huge security cordon that now surrounds the President and Vice President or would get anywhere near enough to do so anyway
First. Anyone who thinks that assassination is a reasonable option will not be put off by the identity of the immediate replacement. They will likely see the act as symbolic, hoping to inspire others to follow their lead and overturn the entirety of the Presidential succession. Having Pelosi as an unelected Acting President would consequently be perfect (temporarily).
Second. Security of all kinds is often most vulnerable to an inside job. About one-sixth of the US population may believe in the QAnon conspiracy theory. How confident can you be that nobody in the Secret Service holds such beliefs?
It would actually probably be easier for an Antifa to assassinate Trump from Thursday.
He will then be in Florida with far less security than the incumbent POTUS and if he is convicted in the impeachment would lose his security detail completely.
Plus the rules of succession ensure that the President Pro Tempore of the Senate, the Cabinet etc all Democrats would follow in line so assassinating Pelosi too would not change the Democrats control of the Federal Government.
By then the US would effectively be near civil war anyway if it got to that stage
"Love it". There's that 17% again. The basket of deplorables.
Loving the national anthem makes you deplorable?
No wonder you would rather support a fascist regime invading a free democracy than see people in a free democracy choosing to maintain connections to Britain.
I dislike the anthem, as an atheist republican it does nothing for me, but I respect those that like it.
Just from a musical point of view I find it hard to respect the taste of people who like GSTQ.
For whatever reason it's only the Marsellaise, of national anthems, that I find myself humming at random - and only the star-spangled banner that I learnt to play on tin whistle.
“God Save The Queen” is a total dirge. Much prefer “Hail to the Chief”.
Likewise, the Marseillaise is not as good as All You Need is Love, which I believe has British composers.
Watch for the gotcha on UK vaccinations numbers on Mondays. Scotland and Wales have dumped what looks like the last 2-3 days worth of data in todays figures i.e. no way Scotland did 40k and Wales 25k just yesterday.
So the 225k total is a mix of different periods.
There seems to be a mismatch on daily vs weekly numbers too. Adding up last week day to day I get 1,775,000 but the current total cumulative figure (4,062,000) less the cumulative weekly figure at 10 Jan (1.9 million) implies over 2 million in the week
I'm not sure there's much evidence for what the 'appropriate window' in that respect is though. I think that 12 weeks was selected as antibody levels tend to tail off significantly after that, but I think the concern is more over what might happen should you get infected before the second shot, rather than that the booster won't work.
This was a point I raised yesterday for which I got shouted down by the pro-Johnson apologists on here.
The vaccine doesn't provide 100% protection as soon as you walk out the vaccination centre or wherever. Indeed, the immunity doesn't really kick in until 10-12 days after the initial vaccination. There have bee unfortunate documented instances of individuals receiving the first vaccination, contracting the virus a few days earlier and succumbing to it.
The vaccination isn't an immediate magic bullet - Pfizer recommended initially a booster vaccination after 21 days but the JCVI have opted not to follow that and are relying on developing immunity from the single vaccination claiming that will reach sufficient levels by day 12-15 so those vaccinated on January 4th should be fine now and those vaccinated today need to keep their precautions going for a fortnight or so.
I'm concerned about the messaging - even if you are vaccinated today, you are still at risk for several days. Even then, we are relying on efficacy data to be correct.
Longer term, we don't know what protection the single vaccination provides - will it last weeks or months? Will we need a new round of vaccination in the autumn for example?
The other problem is we don't know the level of take up - if it's 100% fine but we know in some areas and in some communities the take up may not be anywhere so good so Covid remains a threat to some and present in the unvaccinated community.
Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.
The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.
Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
Trump supporters are even crazier than you. I don't think that President Harris would phase them as they have a lot of bullets.
I don't want either of them assassinated. But the lunatic arrested at the weekend with a forged inauguration pass, guns and bullets shows the threat is clear.
And if Biden and Harris are assassinated then they end up with President Pelosi who would be a Trump supporter's worst nightmare.
In any case it is highly unlikely a few crazed backwoodsmen would be able to breach the huge security cordon that now surrounds the President and Vice President or would get anywhere near enough to do so anyway
First. Anyone who thinks that assassination is a reasonable option will not be put off by the identity of the immediate replacement. They will likely see the act as symbolic, hoping to inspire others to follow their lead and overturn the entirety of the Presidential succession. Having Pelosi as an unelected Acting President would consequently be perfect (temporarily).
Second. Security of all kinds is often most vulnerable to an inside job. About one-sixth of the US population may believe in the QAnon conspiracy theory. How confident can you be that nobody in the Secret Service holds such beliefs?
It would actually probably be easier for an Antifa to assassinate Trump from Thursday.
He will then be in Florida with far less security than the incumbent POTUS and if he is convicted in the impeachment would lose his security detail completely.
Plus the rules of succession ensure that the President Pro Tempore of the Senate, the Cabinet etc all Democrats would follow in line so assassinating Pelosi too would not change the Democrats control of the Federal Government.
By then the US would effectively be near civil war anyway if it got to that stage
If not that, they need to be on a leash and muzzled at all times.
Richmond Park dog walker fined £602 over pet's 'relentless' fatal attack on deer
Police are urging dog owners to keep their pets on a tight lead after an increase in attacks during lockdown.
A man has been fined £602 after his dog fatally injured a deer during a "relentless" attack in London's Richmond Park.
Dramatic footage filmed by a cyclist shows Franck Hiribarne's red setter, Alfie, rushing at the small hind, jumping up at her and dragging her backwards, at around 9am on 1 October last year.
Despite the efforts of several passers-by to get between the animals, forming a human barrier to stop the attack, Alfie left the deer with deep wounds to her back and tail, which was partially detached.
The hind also suffered a broken leg after being hit by a car in her attempts to get away.
She was found a short while later, collapsed in the ferns, and had to be put down by a gamekeeper.
Mr Hiribarne, from southwest London, pleaded guilty at Wimbledon Magistrates' Court on 15 January to causing or permitting an animal he was in charge of to injure another animal in a royal park. He was fined £602.
The defendant reported the incident himself to the Royal Parks Office, while witnesses - some of whom described the attack as "relentless" - spoke to officers in a passing police car.
Certainly they need to be under control. That need not mean muzzled, and need not mean on a lead at all times. However, like everything else, the bad owners let everyone else down.
I know, my friend had a pair of Rottweilers, he had them since they were puppies, they were the most dumb dogs you'd ever meet, it was very hard to be afraid of dogs that used to bark at their own farts and get scared of their own reflections in the patio door.
My friend said if there was ever a break in at his house, the burglars had to give the dogs some sausages and they'd help carry the TV out for them.
Wait till your toddler daughter tries to kiss them, and they mistake it for an attack.
That's the reason he got rid of them, not so much for that, they still thought they were puppies.
They'd crush babies/toddlers in excitement.
Most dogs are surprisingly good with babies/toddlers but the smaller ones are best for that reason I think.
We got our little dog as a puppy when my youngest was three weeks old. The dog would growl if others tried to pick her up when she didn't want to be picked up but the toddler could be as rough as she wanted picking her up and she'd just sit there and play with her, unless she grabbed her tail.
I swear until my daughter could walk and talk her and puppy seemed to think act like they were twins. Very close to each other.
I can't remember if I've posted this before - and apols if I have - but I was savaged by an Alsatian when I was 3 and it's left me with a deep rooted anxiety around all dogs except the really poncy little ones. It's quite an inconvenient phobia. Gets in the way of quite a few things.
I was attacked by our family dog when I was a toddler. I almost lost one eye. My mother called my dad at work. He came home immediately, and took the dog to the vet and had him put down. He got another dog as soon as he could and I've had a dog ever since, - 60 years - almost entirely German Shepherds (Alsatians). I sympathize with your phobia. I was just lucky. Just another example of getting back on the bike, I guess.
Wow. That sounds worse than mine. I just got a big scare and a bite on the leg. And yes, I suppose getting another one quickly must have worked. We were not a dog owning family though.
My daughter got married a year ago. He's a nice guy but has never had a pet. He is now convinced he's a dog lover - or at least smart enough not to say otherwise. He knows a German Shepherd is inevitable.
Speaking of phobias, mine is needles. How bad? The doc gives me valium before blood work. Now there's a vaccine for covid, my mind is working overtime. 2 shots? Think I'll wait for the J&J which is 1 shot.
Do we have about a billion high grade disposable masks lying about ready for immediate distribution to the entire population of the country to use every time they go to work or visit the supermarket, or are we all meant to sit at home and starve to death if we don't have one?
Speaking more generally, I am glad that the Plague situation is marginally less terrible then I had feared by this juncture, although the tsunami of corpses is well underway and there's still time for the ever-increasing numbers of hospital patients to collapse the healthcare system. Vaccination progress appears much better, but there's definitely a postcode lottery in operation. If we get to the point where Newcastle is jabbing fortysomethings when London is still crawling its way through the nonagenarians then expect severe ructions.
Try wearing one of those with glasses AND hearing aids.There isn't room behind the ears!
Getting there slowly, result of new restrictions starting to show up in the cases figure.
Still struggling to see how we have an R rate of 1.2 to 1.3.....
Its just lagged data, plus not updated day on day. I expect it to update later in the week (but also suspect SAGE may try to keep the lid on things by erring on the high side).
I think the National Anthem is a good little tune. Very Georgian sounding, nice and easy to belt out for a crowd without everyone losing their place and it sounding terrible. It is brief, and ends neatly and on a high. French national anthem starts nicely but in the end sort of falters off into obscurity like a messy Napoleonic retreat. American national anthem is very good, a bit harder to sing than GSTQ. German is solid but the last bit is too high, and it's like GSTQ's less effective sibling.
I enjoy Rule Britannia, and the Sailor's Hornpipe.
I love Land of Hope & Glory.
I am touched by I Vow To Thee, My Country.
I am deeply moved by Nimrod.
I am neutral on Abide With Me.
I think Vindaloo is silly, unless you're pissed and at the football.
Personally I would have Jerusalem as the English anthem as at the Commonwealth Games and just leave GSTQ for sporting and official events where the monarch or a member of the royal family was in attendance.
I'm not sure there's much evidence for what the 'appropriate window' in that respect is though. I think that 12 weeks was selected as antibody levels tend to tail off significantly after that, but I think the concern is more over what might happen should you get infected before the second shot, rather than that the booster won't work.
This was a point I raised yesterday for which I got shouted down by the pro-Johnson apologists on here.
The vaccine doesn't provide 100% protection as soon as you walk out the vaccination centre or wherever. Indeed, the immunity doesn't really kick in until 10-12 days after the initial vaccination. There have bee unfortunate documented instances of individuals receiving the first vaccination, contracting the virus a few days earlier and succumbing to it.
The vaccination isn't an immediate magic bullet - Pfizer recommended initially a booster vaccination after 21 days but the JCVI have opted not to follow that and are relying on developing immunity from the single vaccination claiming that will reach sufficient levels by day 12-15 so those vaccinated on January 4th should be fine now and those vaccinated today need to keep their precautions going for a fortnight or so.
I'm concerned about the messaging - even if you are vaccinated today, you are still at risk for several days. Even then, we are relying on efficacy data to be correct.
Longer term, we don't know what protection the single vaccination provides - will it last weeks or months? Will we need a new round of vaccination in the autumn for example?
The other problem is we don't know the level of take up - if it's 100% fine but we know in some areas and in some communities the take up may not be anywhere so good so Covid remains a threat to some and present in the unvaccinated community.
People who get the first jab are told that they need to be careful until two weeks after the second jab. What this strategy does is ensure that the people who get one jab over the next 8-10 weeks plus the 4m who have already had one will be significantly less likely to end up in hospital or die. It doesn't make them immune or significantly less likely to get symptoms.
This is a public health strategy that prioritises public health over the health of the individual. We're at war, in wartime people must make sacrifices. It means that people need to stay indoors be careful for 9 additional weeks so that the NHS isn't having to continually delay and cancel non-COVID hospital treatments.
So the fishermen have been screwed . I wonder what sort of system could be set up that makes exporting their catch really easy ! Oh yes the CU and SM , the thing so many voted to leave !
And the search for a single benefit of Brexit goes on !
I think the National Anthem is a good little tune. Very Georgian sounding, nice and easy to belt out for a crowd without everyone losing their place and it sounding terrible. It is brief, and ends neatly and on a high. French national anthem starts nicely but in the end sort of falters off into obscurity like a messy Napoleonic retreat. American national anthem is very good, a bit harder to sing than GSTQ. German is solid but the last bit is too high, and it's like GSTQ's less effective sibling.
That's basically my thinking on the national anthem. French one is better as a tune, but ours is not as bad as some say when not played too slowly, and it is very easy to sing loudly in a crowd, which is very handy for an anthem.
By which he means, 'around 4 million people have received the FIRST DOSE of a vaccine.'
Which is not at all the same thing.
It's not about the efficacy, its about the numbers vacinated before September. This is the politics of Covid now, and Johnson is winning the Covid PR battle hands down, a massive improvement from the Cummings era.
So what if we all need two shots this time next year because the first, single dose only programme didn't give us the required resistance? The PR war against Covid is won, and it has been won by the Conservative Party. BBC lunchtime news was all about vaccine numbers, nothing about hospitalisations and deaths, those stats are so 2020.
Surely the strategy is based on the efficacy, as proposed by that famous Boris fan, erm, Tony Blair?
There's a 12-week gap as this maximises protection across the nation.
Do you oppose that strategy? If so, why?
And potentially gives the best immune response for the individual as well. We have clinical evidence for AZ and after speaking to an immunology expert they suggested that the body's immune response 9-15 weeks post infection was the best time for a second dose as it would have a much stronger effect than after 3-6 weeks, this is something that is seen in other vaccine programmes and in diseases responses. We may have stumbled upon the best strategy for the vaccine both in public health and immune response terms. The cost is that individuals who have been jabbed a single time need to spend an extra 9 weeks being careful in lockdown because they will have ~70% immunity rather than 95% immunity. I think it's a small price to pay.
Are people actually being told that they still need to adhere to the lockdown after the first shot?
I'm not sure there's much evidence for what the 'appropriate window' in that respect is though. I think that 12 weeks was selected as antibody levels tend to tail off significantly after that, but I think the concern is more over what might happen should you get infected before the second shot, rather than that the booster won't work.
This was a point I raised yesterday for which I got shouted down by the pro-Johnson apologists on here.
The vaccine doesn't provide 100% protection as soon as you walk out the vaccination centre or wherever. Indeed, the immunity doesn't really kick in until 10-12 days after the initial vaccination. There have bee unfortunate documented instances of individuals receiving the first vaccination, contracting the virus a few days earlier and succumbing to it.
The vaccination isn't an immediate magic bullet - Pfizer recommended initially a booster vaccination after 21 days but the JCVI have opted not to follow that and are relying on developing immunity from the single vaccination claiming that will reach sufficient levels by day 12-15 so those vaccinated on January 4th should be fine now and those vaccinated today need to keep their precautions going for a fortnight or so.
I'm concerned about the messaging - even if you are vaccinated today, you are still at risk for several days. Even then, we are relying on efficacy data to be correct.
Longer term, we don't know what protection the single vaccination provides - will it last weeks or months? Will we need a new round of vaccination in the autumn for example?
The other problem is we don't know the level of take up - if it's 100% fine but we know in some areas and in some communities the take up may not be anywhere so good so Covid remains a threat to some and present in the unvaccinated community.
I responded yesterday to your posts about this and don't identify myself as a pro-Johnson apologist. I understand people are wary about the seeming change in use for the vaccines (primarily Pfizer), but would recommend trusting the experts on this occasion. Its not as if three weeks is a magic number, or that common in double shot vaccination. I fear that peoples scepticism of the government clouds their response to scientific decisions.
The special pleading from those who are waiting in long queues at Heathrow because of additional checks on test results and spot fines is nauseating. Anyone who travels at the moment deserves absolutely everything they get at the airport.
"Love it". There's that 17% again. The basket of deplorables.
Loving the national anthem makes you deplorable?
No wonder you would rather support a fascist regime invading a free democracy than see people in a free democracy choosing to maintain connections to Britain.
I dislike the anthem, as an atheist republican it does nothing for me, but I respect those that like it.
"Feels a bit odd to me, British dominion over a small island in either the South Pacific or the South Atlantic, and I would not set my face against some sort of compromise to resolve the sovereignty dispute" - this requires quite some bad faith or excitable translator warp to morph into, "I prefer a fascist regime invading a free democracy (!) than to see people in a free democracy (!) choosing to maintain connections to Britain!"
But that was all sorted on PT. I dealt with every single objecting post on there. No need for a c/fwd.
This 17%. It's getting a bit spooky. Brits who strongly support Donald Trump. 17%. Brits who wanted No Deal Brexit as their 1st choice. 17%. Brits who think wearing a mask is a gross infringement of liberty. 17%. And now, Brits who LOVE the National Anthem. 17%.
I'm not saying it's exactly the same 17% - it can't be - but there is a story here. We do have our own basket of deplorables - why wouldn't we? - and this has got to be as good a way as any to home in on the size of it.
Why do you dislike the Anthem anyway? Bit of a dirge but it's ok. Has some gravitas.
I'm not sure there's much evidence for what the 'appropriate window' in that respect is though. I think that 12 weeks was selected as antibody levels tend to tail off significantly after that, but I think the concern is more over what might happen should you get infected before the second shot, rather than that the booster won't work.
This was a point I raised yesterday for which I got shouted down by the pro-Johnson apologists on here.
So the fishermen have been screwed . I wonder what sort of system could be set up that makes exporting their catch really easy ! Oh yes the CU and SM , the thing so many voted to leave !
And the search for a single benefit of Brexit goes on !
Hmm, saving thousands of lives with early vaccine approval outside the EU procurement process or some grumpy SNP shellfish workers? Brexit or No Brexit. Pretty easy decision that.
Funny how Project Fear has been downgraded to Project "give it a few months".
I'm not sure there's much evidence for what the 'appropriate window' in that respect is though. I think that 12 weeks was selected as antibody levels tend to tail off significantly after that, but I think the concern is more over what might happen should you get infected before the second shot, rather than that the booster won't work.
This was a point I raised yesterday for which I got shouted down by the pro-Johnson apologists on here.
The vaccine doesn't provide 100% protection as soon as you walk out the vaccination centre or wherever. Indeed, the immunity doesn't really kick in until 10-12 days after the initial vaccination. There have bee unfortunate documented instances of individuals receiving the first vaccination, contracting the virus a few days earlier and succumbing to it.
The vaccination isn't an immediate magic bullet - Pfizer recommended initially a booster vaccination after 21 days but the JCVI have opted not to follow that and are relying on developing immunity from the single vaccination claiming that will reach sufficient levels by day 12-15 so those vaccinated on January 4th should be fine now and those vaccinated today need to keep their precautions going for a fortnight or so.
I'm concerned about the messaging - even if you are vaccinated today, you are still at risk for several days. Even then, we are relying on efficacy data to be correct.
Longer term, we don't know what protection the single vaccination provides - will it last weeks or months? Will we need a new round of vaccination in the autumn for example?
The other problem is we don't know the level of take up - if it's 100% fine but we know in some areas and in some communities the take up may not be anywhere so good so Covid remains a threat to some and present in the unvaccinated community.
I responded yesterday to your posts about this and don't identify myself as a pro-Johnson apologist. I understand people are wary about the seeming change in use for the vaccines (primarily Pfizer), but would recommend trusting the experts on this occasion. Its not as if three weeks is a magic number, or that common in double shot vaccination. I fear that peoples scepticism of the government clouds their response to scientific decisions.
I think it rather unfortunate that stodge undermined all his points about the vaccine programme by assuming, entirely incorrectly, that those who disagreed with him were Johnson apologists. It's lazy, demonstrably false, and now there's reason for being suspicious about his own motivations for his comments if that is how he sees the debate, as between Johnson apologists and their opponents.
Getting there slowly, result of new restrictions starting to show up in the cases figure.
Still struggling to see how we have an R rate of 1.2 to 1.3.....
Its just lagged data, plus not updated day on day. I expect it to update later in the week (but also suspect SAGE may try to keep the lid on things by erring on the high side).
Yes, my working assumption is that it is being kept high to keep us indoors. I don't really have a problem with that, as too many people will go "Whoopee!" and return to twat-mode as soon as it goes sub-1. However, we really should start seeing some significant improvements going into February. There comes a point you can't keep being unduly glum....
If not that, they need to be on a leash and muzzled at all times.
Richmond Park dog walker fined £602 over pet's 'relentless' fatal attack on deer
Police are urging dog owners to keep their pets on a tight lead after an increase in attacks during lockdown.
A man has been fined £602 after his dog fatally injured a deer during a "relentless" attack in London's Richmond Park.
Dramatic footage filmed by a cyclist shows Franck Hiribarne's red setter, Alfie, rushing at the small hind, jumping up at her and dragging her backwards, at around 9am on 1 October last year.
Despite the efforts of several passers-by to get between the animals, forming a human barrier to stop the attack, Alfie left the deer with deep wounds to her back and tail, which was partially detached.
The hind also suffered a broken leg after being hit by a car in her attempts to get away.
She was found a short while later, collapsed in the ferns, and had to be put down by a gamekeeper.
Mr Hiribarne, from southwest London, pleaded guilty at Wimbledon Magistrates' Court on 15 January to causing or permitting an animal he was in charge of to injure another animal in a royal park. He was fined £602.
The defendant reported the incident himself to the Royal Parks Office, while witnesses - some of whom described the attack as "relentless" - spoke to officers in a passing police car.
Red setters are horrid little dogs. They look nice though.
You must be very big, if you consider a Red Setter to be "little".
I'm 6.2. I suppose they're medium.
In bare feet and not on tip toes?
If so, that's unusual.
Roughly the 95th percentile for British males at age 18. You'd expect at least 16 MPs to be that tall, even if you had a perfect gender balance.
Yes, very unusual. This is why I always doublecheck when somebody says they are that tall.
A significant number of the sixth-form boys I teach are that height or more. Many of my A-level sets over the years have contained someone who has to duck to go through the door of the lab.
Are people actually being told that they still need to adhere to the lockdown after the first shot?
Yes, both people I know who have had it have been told that they won't have immunity from symptoms until their second jabs and to be careful until two weeks after their second appointments. Though both of them had it done at hospitals by nurses, I don't know what the spiel is from volunteers, I hope it's the same though. Maybe people on PB who have had it can enlighten us.
If not that, they need to be on a leash and muzzled at all times.
Richmond Park dog walker fined £602 over pet's 'relentless' fatal attack on deer
Police are urging dog owners to keep their pets on a tight lead after an increase in attacks during lockdown.
A man has been fined £602 after his dog fatally injured a deer during a "relentless" attack in London's Richmond Park.
Dramatic footage filmed by a cyclist shows Franck Hiribarne's red setter, Alfie, rushing at the small hind, jumping up at her and dragging her backwards, at around 9am on 1 October last year.
Despite the efforts of several passers-by to get between the animals, forming a human barrier to stop the attack, Alfie left the deer with deep wounds to her back and tail, which was partially detached.
The hind also suffered a broken leg after being hit by a car in her attempts to get away.
She was found a short while later, collapsed in the ferns, and had to be put down by a gamekeeper.
Mr Hiribarne, from southwest London, pleaded guilty at Wimbledon Magistrates' Court on 15 January to causing or permitting an animal he was in charge of to injure another animal in a royal park. He was fined £602.
The defendant reported the incident himself to the Royal Parks Office, while witnesses - some of whom described the attack as "relentless" - spoke to officers in a passing police car.
Certainly they need to be under control. That need not mean muzzled, and need not mean on a lead at all times. However, like everything else, the bad owners let everyone else down.
I know, my friend had a pair of Rottweilers, he had them since they were puppies, they were the most dumb dogs you'd ever meet, it was very hard to be afraid of dogs that used to bark at their own farts and get scared of their own reflections in the patio door.
My friend said if there was ever a break in at his house, the burglars had to give the dogs some sausages and they'd help carry the TV out for them.
Wait till your toddler daughter tries to kiss them, and they mistake it for an attack.
That's the reason he got rid of them, not so much for that, they still thought they were puppies.
They'd crush babies/toddlers in excitement.
Most dogs are surprisingly good with babies/toddlers but the smaller ones are best for that reason I think.
We got our little dog as a puppy when my youngest was three weeks old. The dog would growl if others tried to pick her up when she didn't want to be picked up but the toddler could be as rough as she wanted picking her up and she'd just sit there and play with her, unless she grabbed her tail.
I swear until my daughter could walk and talk her and puppy seemed to think act like they were twins. Very close to each other.
I can't remember if I've posted this before - and apols if I have - but I was savaged by an Alsatian when I was 3 and it's left me with a deep rooted anxiety around all dogs except the really poncy little ones. It's quite an inconvenient phobia. Gets in the way of quite a few things.
I was attacked by our family dog when I was a toddler. I almost lost one eye. My mother called my dad at work. He came home immediately, and took the dog to the vet and had him put down. He got another dog as soon as he could and I've had a dog ever since, - 60 years - almost entirely German Shepherds (Alsatians). I sympathize with your phobia. I was just lucky. Just another example of getting back on the bike, I guess.
Wow. That sounds worse than mine. I just got a big scare and a bite on the leg. And yes, I suppose getting another one quickly must have worked. We were not a dog owning family though.
My daughter got married a year ago. He's a nice guy but has never had a pet. He is now convinced he's a dog lover - or at least smart enough not to say otherwise. He knows a German Shepherd is inevitable.
Speaking of phobias, mine is needles. How bad? The doc gives me valium before blood work. Now there's a vaccine for covid, my mind is working overtime. 2 shots? Think I'll wait for the J&J which is 1 shot.
The vaccine shots are a lot less horrid than seeing your own blood drawn (for those that are phobic).
The special pleading from those who are waiting in long queues at Heathrow because of additional checks on test results and spot fines is nauseating. Anyone who travels at the moment deserves absolutely everything they get at the airport.
Everyone, and I do mean everyone in that line should not particularly want to be travelling and simply HAVE TO BE due to business reasons or otherwise be on their employers' time, or own self employed time. Hopefully this will reinforce that any sort of leisure traveller along the lines of the z list celebs in and out of Dubai constantly can fuck right off.
I think the National Anthem is a good little tune. Very Georgian sounding, nice and easy to belt out for a crowd without everyone losing their place and it sounding terrible. It is brief, and ends neatly and on a high. French national anthem starts nicely but in the end sort of falters off into obscurity like a messy Napoleonic retreat. American national anthem is very good, a bit harder to sing than GSTQ. German is solid but the last bit is too high, and it's like GSTQ's less effective sibling.
That's basically my thinking on the national anthem. French one is better as a tune, but ours is not as bad as some say when not played too slowly, and it is very easy to sing loudly in a crowd, which is very handy for an anthem.
It has famously been stolen by the Americans as 'My country tis of thee', which I think speaks to its competence as an anthem.
Better than doing it in a plastic bottle and throwing it on the road. The number of non-biodegradable bottles of p*ss (amongst much more rubbish) that I see on the roadside when I'm cycling is depressingly large.
I think the National Anthem is a good little tune. Very Georgian sounding, nice and easy to belt out for a crowd without everyone losing their place and it sounding terrible. It is brief, and ends neatly and on a high. French national anthem starts nicely but in the end sort of falters off into obscurity like a messy Napoleonic retreat. American national anthem is very good, a bit harder to sing than GSTQ. German is solid but the last bit is too high, and it's like GSTQ's less effective sibling.
That's basically my thinking on the national anthem. French one is better as a tune, but ours is not as bad as some say when not played too slowly, and it is very easy to sing loudly in a crowd, which is very handy for an anthem.
It has famously been stolen by the Americans as 'My country tis of thee', which I think speaks to its competence as an anthem.
It's also the tune to the Lichtenstein anthem, as memorably encountered during a friendly between it and England where the same tune was played twice.
I'm not sure there's much evidence for what the 'appropriate window' in that respect is though. I think that 12 weeks was selected as antibody levels tend to tail off significantly after that, but I think the concern is more over what might happen should you get infected before the second shot, rather than that the booster won't work.
This was a point I raised yesterday for which I got shouted down by the pro-Johnson apologists on here.
The vaccine doesn't provide 100% protection as soon as you walk out the vaccination centre or wherever. Indeed, the immunity doesn't really kick in until 10-12 days after the initial vaccination. There have bee unfortunate documented instances of individuals receiving the first vaccination, contracting the virus a few days earlier and succumbing to it.
The vaccination isn't an immediate magic bullet - Pfizer recommended initially a booster vaccination after 21 days but the JCVI have opted not to follow that and are relying on developing immunity from the single vaccination claiming that will reach sufficient levels by day 12-15 so those vaccinated on January 4th should be fine now and those vaccinated today need to keep their precautions going for a fortnight or so.
I'm concerned about the messaging - even if you are vaccinated today, you are still at risk for several days. Even then, we are relying on efficacy data to be correct.
Longer term, we don't know what protection the single vaccination provides - will it last weeks or months? Will we need a new round of vaccination in the autumn for example?
The other problem is we don't know the level of take up - if it's 100% fine but we know in some areas and in some communities the take up may not be anywhere so good so Covid remains a threat to some and present in the unvaccinated community.
You shouldn't have been shouted down - it's a valid concern. Scientific opinion (though it's far from a consensus) seems to be that the risk is justified when infection levels are so high. But note they have only delayed the booster. By autumn, everyone ought to have had it.
Partygoers who claimed to be unaware of the global pandemic, a group hosting a gender reveal party and people attending an illegal car meet are among the coronavirus rule-breakers caught over the weekend.
Police shut down a party in Basingstoke, Hampshire, on Saturday but were told the hosts were "unaware of the global pandemic, as they never watch the news".
I think the National Anthem is a good little tune. Very Georgian sounding, nice and easy to belt out for a crowd without everyone losing their place and it sounding terrible. It is brief, and ends neatly and on a high. French national anthem starts nicely but in the end sort of falters off into obscurity like a messy Napoleonic retreat. American national anthem is very good, a bit harder to sing than GSTQ. German is solid but the last bit is too high, and it's like GSTQ's less effective sibling.
That's basically my thinking on the national anthem. French one is better as a tune, but ours is not as bad as some say when not played too slowly, and it is very easy to sing loudly in a crowd, which is very handy for an anthem.
It has famously been stolen by the Americans as 'My country tis of thee', which I think speaks to its competence as an anthem.
It's also the tune to the Lichtenstein anthem, as memorably encountered during a friendly between it and England where the same tune was played twice.
Perhaps could therefore be adopted as the EFTA anthem as well, when we finally rejoin.
No, NI is the Demilitarised Zone. The EU is the Federation, we are the Cardassians. Arlene Forster is Quark.
No, if the EU is the Federation then we're the Maquis. The EU is closer to the Borg though. Russia are the Orion syndicate.
Perhaps the EU is the Federation, only Lieutenant Commander Eddington's assessment of the Federation (it wasn't right, but he had a point).
Yes, Sisko had a lot of sympathy for Eddington and the Maquis at the end of it all. The Federation hated the Maquis because they left paradise, it's actually a pretty good analogy to Brexit. The EU hate us because we had the temerity to leave paradise. DS9 really was such a great series, easily the best that Star Trek had to offer.
"Love it". There's that 17% again. The basket of deplorables.
Loving the national anthem makes you deplorable?
No wonder you would rather support a fascist regime invading a free democracy than see people in a free democracy choosing to maintain connections to Britain.
I dislike the anthem, as an atheist republican it does nothing for me, but I respect those that like it.
Just from a musical point of view I find it hard to respect the taste of people who like GSTQ.
For whatever reason it's only the Marsellaise, of national anthems, that I find myself humming at random - and only the star-spangled banner that I learnt to play on tin whistle.
I think the National Anthem is a good little tune. Very Georgian sounding, nice and easy to belt out for a crowd without everyone losing their place and it sounding terrible. It is brief, and ends neatly and on a high. French national anthem starts nicely but in the end sort of falters off into obscurity like a messy Napoleonic retreat. American national anthem is very good, a bit harder to sing than GSTQ. German is solid but the last bit is too high, and it's like GSTQ's less effective sibling.
That's basically my thinking on the national anthem. French one is better as a tune, but ours is not as bad as some say when not played too slowly, and it is very easy to sing loudly in a crowd, which is very handy for an anthem.
It has famously been stolen by the Americans as 'My country tis of thee', which I think speaks to its competence as an anthem.
It's also the tune to the Lichtenstein anthem, as memorably encountered during a friendly between it and England where the same tune was played twice.
And Le Havre AC, with these words:
"A jamais le premier de tous les clubs français ô H.A.C. Fiers de tes origines Fils d'Oxford et Cambridge deux couleurs font notre prestige Ciel et marine!"
English translation:
"The first ever of all French clubs The H.A.C Proud of your roots Son of Oxford and Cambridge two colours make our prestige (the colours of the) sky and the sea!"
Comments
https://twitter.com/GuptaR_lab/status/1351181780804636675
https://twitter.com/GuptaR_lab/status/1351181786508894213
For whatever reason it's only the Marsellaise, of national anthems, that I find myself humming at random - and only the star-spangled banner that I learnt to play on tin whistle.
So the 225k total is a mix of different periods.
Even I like La Marseillaise, well when I'm not singing 'ou est le papier' to it.
Speaking more generally, I am glad that the Plague situation is marginally less terrible then I had feared by this juncture, although the tsunami of corpses is well underway and there's still time for the ever-increasing numbers of hospital patients to collapse the healthcare system. Vaccination progress appears much better, but there's definitely a postcode lottery in operation. If we get to the point where Newcastle is jabbing fortysomethings when London is still crawling its way through the nonagenarians then expect severe ructions.
But I'm not persuaded the theme tune for Blake's 7 would gain universal approval.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=r0YLevRJ1nA
https://twitter.com/DailyMirror/status/1349850481707900935
Much prefer “Hail to the Chief”.
Likewise, the Marseillaise is not as good as All You Need is Love, which I believe has British composers.
Once again, this country is full of curtain-twitchers.
From case data
From hospitalisation data
The vaccine doesn't provide 100% protection as soon as you walk out the vaccination centre or wherever. Indeed, the immunity doesn't really kick in until 10-12 days after the initial vaccination. There have bee unfortunate documented instances of individuals receiving the first vaccination, contracting the virus a few days earlier and succumbing to it.
The vaccination isn't an immediate magic bullet - Pfizer recommended initially a booster vaccination after 21 days but the JCVI have opted not to follow that and are relying on developing immunity from the single vaccination claiming that will reach sufficient levels by day 12-15 so those vaccinated on January 4th should be fine now and those vaccinated today need to keep their precautions going for a fortnight or so.
I'm concerned about the messaging - even if you are vaccinated today, you are still at risk for several days. Even then, we are relying on efficacy data to be correct.
Longer term, we don't know what protection the single vaccination provides - will it last weeks or months? Will we need a new round of vaccination in the autumn for example?
The other problem is we don't know the level of take up - if it's 100% fine but we know in some areas and in some communities the take up may not be anywhere so good so Covid remains a threat to some and present in the unvaccinated community.
Speaking of phobias, mine is needles. How bad? The doc gives me valium before blood work. Now there's a vaccine for covid, my mind is working overtime. 2 shots? Think I'll wait for the J&J which is 1 shot.
They peed up near the bit where they slide the delivered products in and out of.
They've likely contaminated their products.
How would you feel if you paid £2,000 for a TV only for it to have urine on it?
I enjoy Rule Britannia, and the Sailor's Hornpipe.
I love Land of Hope & Glory.
I am touched by I Vow To Thee, My Country.
I am deeply moved by Nimrod.
I am neutral on Abide With Me.
I think Vindaloo is silly, unless you're pissed and at the football.
This is a public health strategy that prioritises public health over the health of the individual. We're at war, in wartime people must make sacrifices. It means that people need to stay indoors be careful for 9 additional weeks so that the NHS isn't having to continually delay and cancel non-COVID hospital treatments.
https://www.hongkongwatch.org/all-posts/2020/2/6/in-full-lord-pattens-remarks-at-the-paddy-ashdown-memorial-lecture
Do you think we should extend the right of residence in the UK to those Hong Kong residents with BNO passports?
And the search for a single benefit of Brexit goes on !
Wasn't there a film where someone did that behind a lectern? One of the Police Academy ones?
But agree over 'I Vow To Thee, My Country.'
And 'Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau' raises the hairs on my neck!
But that was all sorted on PT. I dealt with every single objecting post on there. No need for a c/fwd.
This 17%. It's getting a bit spooky. Brits who strongly support Donald Trump. 17%. Brits who wanted No Deal Brexit as their 1st choice. 17%. Brits who think wearing a mask is a gross infringement of liberty. 17%. And now, Brits who LOVE the National Anthem. 17%.
I'm not saying it's exactly the same 17% - it can't be - but there is a story here. We do have our own basket of deplorables - why wouldn't we? - and this has got to be as good a way as any to home in on the size of it.
Why do you dislike the Anthem anyway? Bit of a dirge but it's ok. Has some gravitas.
The bon ton go for the Lidl middle aisle with occasional top-ups at the Selfridges food hall.
Just pro-arithmetic.
Funny how Project Fear has been downgraded to Project "give it a few months".
I really do miss the Selfridges food hall.
Apparently if you consciously smile (it needs to be a 'sincere' smile) as the needle goes in, it makes it a bit better. Grimacing also works.
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/can-a-smile-reduce-the-pain-of-an-injection#The-study
This is supposed to be a family website.
Hopefully this will reinforce that any sort of leisure traveller along the lines of the z list celebs in and out of Dubai constantly can fuck right off.
You shouldn't have been shouted down - it's a valid concern. Scientific opinion (though it's far from a consensus) seems to be that the risk is justified when infection levels are so high.
But note they have only delayed the booster. By autumn, everyone ought to have had it.
Partygoers who claimed to be unaware of the global pandemic, a group hosting a gender reveal party and people attending an illegal car meet are among the coronavirus rule-breakers caught over the weekend.
Police shut down a party in Basingstoke, Hampshire, on Saturday but were told the hosts were "unaware of the global pandemic, as they never watch the news".
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-partygoers-claimed-they-had-not-heard-of-the-pandemic-as-police-reveal-breaches-over-the-weekend-12191416
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV1-OkHQ9KQ
Thirty years ago I was in a choir singing it while HM was sitting in her place in the chapel: that was a strange experience...
"A jamais le premier
de tous les clubs français
ô H.A.C.
Fiers de tes origines
Fils d'Oxford et Cambridge
deux couleurs font notre prestige
Ciel et marine!"
English translation:
"The first ever
of all French clubs
The H.A.C
Proud of your roots
Son of Oxford and Cambridge
two colours make our prestige
(the colours of the) sky and the sea!"
“I sense great danger” she kept moaning uselessly, clutching her temple as a Borg craft materialised into view on the Visualiser.