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  • Not the least fault of the whole Trump shitshow is its overweening fcuking pettiness.

    https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1351175420356530177?s=20

    Compare and contrast with the Bush family showing the Obama family round.... complete with Obama kids using a sloped corridor as a slide, to smiles from all the adults.
    I read that the Obama family were really touched by the efforts that the Bush family made to make them feel welcome and make the handover as smooth as possible. I know Obama also said Bush did everything he could to make the power transition as smooth and professional as possible.
    Would it be fair to say that nothing in his presidency became him like the leaving it?
    "Today was the day that Donald Trump finally became President"?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,007
    edited January 2021

    felix said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    By which he means, 'around 4 million people have received the FIRST DOSE of a vaccine.'

    Which is not at all the same thing.
    Usual lies and half truths as ever
    Yup I if I were you I'd refuse the UK vaccine and wait for the EU one - much safer and the right thing to do.
    Swings and roundabouts innit

    'UK now has highest Covid death rate in the world'

    https://tinyurl.com/y32ktj7k
    Always assuming you accept the veracity of the rest of the world's numbers. It's not as if Russia or China would just casually drop a few tens of thousands extra dead in their numbers on a busy news day.

    Watch out for Wednesday and the Biden Inauguration for similar "upward revisions"....
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,390
    The Fauci comments I referenced earlier are actually even more positive than I realised: he expected both J&J and AZ to submit this week, or - at the worst - in the coming weeks. Now, it'll take a month from submission to approval, but that's still excellent news.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,173
    eek said:

    The G7 summit in June is in Cornwall and before Glasgow.

    I was about to post the same, but surely it is likely he would have a stopover in Ireland on the way
  • Not the least fault of the whole Trump shitshow is its overweening fcuking pettiness.

    https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1351175420356530177?s=20

    Compare and contrast with the Bush family showing the Obama family round.... complete with Obama kids using a sloped corridor as a slide, to smiles from all the adults.
    I read that the Obama family were really touched by the efforts that the Bush family made to make them feel welcome and make the handover as smooth as possible. I know Obama also said Bush did everything he could to make the power transition as smooth and professional as possible.
    Would it be fair to say that nothing in his presidency became him like the leaving it?
    "Today was the day that Donald Trump finally became President"?
    I was talking about Bush, or have I missed the point of your comment?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,503
    edited January 2021

    The seafood saga appears to be ongoing:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55638969

    A shipment was delayed for 24 hours because someone filled in the country of origin as "UK" instead of "GB" and the vet insisted this was incorrect and rejected it.

    Whilst I've no doubt there are real difficulties, that does read like a deliberate attempt to be awkward. For whatever reason...

    But that is quite correct - legally GB amd NI are now entirely different places for the purposes of import into the rest of the EU with quite different biosanitary regulations for that import. It has to be one or the other for the vet to know what [edit] rules to apply. And it's not the vet who knows where the prawns came from. It's the chap who fills in the form who knows that and has to standf by that.

    Plus it's a dam' sight better than having that rejected by les douaniers much further down the line.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,648

    Scott_xP said:
    Surely lobbying for the survival of your industry is a definable business trip.
    It feels a lot less appropriate to use the Corona-powers at a protest like this.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,729

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    By which he means, 'around 4 million people have received the FIRST DOSE of a vaccine.'

    Which is not at all the same thing.
    It's not about the efficacy, its about the numbers vacinated before September. This is the politics of Covid now, and Johnson is winning the Covid PR battle hands down, a massive improvement from the Cummings era.

    So what if we all need two shots this time next year because the first, single dose only programme didn't give us the required resistance? The PR war against Covid is won, and it has been won by the Conservative Party. BBC lunchtime news was all about vaccine numbers, nothing about hospitalisations and deaths, those stats are so 2020.
    Given that 3,857,266 was the number of first doses recorded on the 16th it seems quite likely that the first dose number is over 4 million.

    We shall see later.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,751

    Trump to leave office in 2021 -- all the 1.01 has just been taken. Has there been any news?

    I took one bag earlier, but there was still six figures left at that point. Hopefully it pays on Wednesday shortly after midday Washington time.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,893
    Labour might well be embarrassing the government over UC, but yet again it is fixating on the bottom 10%.

    The voters we need to win over are not in receipt of UC.

    Talk to people about something they are concerned about.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,390
    Endillion said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fauci said yesterday that the US was weeks away from approving both the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines.

    Which implies that the J&J mass trial data is good. (And presumably also that AZ has done a reasonable job of getting the required data to the FDA.)

    "Weeks away" is an ambiguous phrase that could mean "close" or "not close", depending on the context. Am I wrong to interpret it as the latter in this case, given the circumstances?
    Fauci's words were "But we're weeks away, not months away, for sure".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,341

    FPT

    Nigelb said:

    Rep. John Katko: Why I became the first Republican lawmaker to support impeachment
    https://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/politics/534654-rep-john-katko-why-i-became-the-first-republican-lawmaker-to

    Well that's already 3 nailed on for impeachment then:
    - Katco
    - Romney (who supported impeachment first time around)
    - Murkowski (who has effectively said she will leave the party if they don't)

    The question is, if McConnell votes to impeach as minority Senate leader, will 13 more feel emboldened enough to use that cover to follow him?
    Katko is a House member though, not a Senator.
  • MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    Perhaps the new UK/EU neutral zone: NI.

    No, NI is the Demilitarised Zone. The EU is the Federation, we are the Cardassians. Arlene Forster is Quark.
    No, if the EU is the federation then we're the Maquis. The EU is closer to the Borg though. Russia are the Orion syndicate.
    And you are Wesley Crusher
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,497
    edited January 2021

    The seafood saga appears to be ongoing:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55638969

    A shipment was delayed for 24 hours because someone filled in the country of origin as "UK" instead of "GB" and the vet insisted this was incorrect and rejected it.

    Whilst I've no doubt there are real difficulties, that does read like a deliberate attempt to be awkward. For whatever reason...

    Why? By dictat of OUR GOVERNMENT there is no UK from a Customs Perspective, just GB and a very separate NI. It isn't some foreigner making a deliberate attempt to be awkward, this is the system that we asked for.
    It wasn't a "foreigner", it was the vet in Glasgow.

    Surely with a new process the correct procedure should be to inform the submitter of their mistake and get it changed quickly rather than deciding to make things painful for everyone.
  • HYUFD said:

    Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.

    The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.

    Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
    Biden must be glad the horrible run of Presidents dying in office was broken by Reagan - although it was a close run thing. Prior to Reagan every President elected in a 20 year cycle back to 1840 died in office

    1840 - Harrison - died 1841 - Pneumonia
    1860 - Lincoln died 1863 - Assassinated
    1880 - Garfield died 1881- Assassinated
    1900 - McKinley died 1901 - Assassinated
    1920 - Harding died 1923 - Heart Attack
    1940 - Roosevelt died 1945 - Stroke
    1960 - Kennedy died 1963 - Assassinated

    1980 - Reagan shot but survived
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,968

    felix said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    By which he means, 'around 4 million people have received the FIRST DOSE of a vaccine.'

    Which is not at all the same thing.
    Usual lies and half truths as ever
    Yup I if I were you I'd refuse the UK vaccine and wait for the EU one - much safer and the right thing to do.
    Swings and roundabouts innit

    'UK now has highest Covid death rate in the world'

    https://tinyurl.com/y32ktj7k
    Always assuming you accept the veracity of the rest of the world's numbers. It's not as if Russia or China would just casually drop a few tens of thousands extra dead in their numbers on a busy news day.

    Watch out for Wednesday and the Biden Inauguration for similar "upward revisions"....
    Its also a spectacular cherry pick in a moving pandemic to choose the 7-day death rate as the latest stick to beat the Government with. Quite incredible journalism. I assume they will be as quick when our (so far) excellent vaccine rollout shows tangible results faster than other countries.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,390

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fauci said yesterday that the US was weeks away from approving both the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines.

    Which implies that the J&J mass trial data is good. (And presumably also that AZ has done a reasonable job of getting the required data to the FDA.)

    The US trial data must complete the picture enough for the FDA. It's a shame that AZ buggered up the UK trial so badly.
    Is it though? From a parochial perspective, having AZ only licenced in the UK is kind of good for our supply at the current time. No competing supply issues... (looks towards Pfizer)
    IIRC (and this may not be correct), AZ has a plant in the UK for their vaccine, as well as one in the US, and have also contracted the Serum Institute of India to make it (the Serum Institute alone will push out 500m doses in 2021 I think).
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,452

    HYUFD said:

    Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.

    The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.

    Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
    Trump supporters are even crazier than you. I don't think that President Harris would phase them as they have a lot of bullets.

    I don't want either of them assassinated. But the lunatic arrested at the weekend with a forged inauguration pass, guns and bullets shows the threat is clear.
    And if Biden and Harris are assassinated then they end up with President Pelosi who would be a Trump supporter's worst nightmare.

    In any case it is highly unlikely a few crazed backwoodsmen would be able to breach the huge security cordon that now surrounds the President and Vice President or would get anywhere near enough to do so anyway
  • HYUFD said:

    Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.

    The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.

    Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
    Biden must be glad the horrible run of Presidents dying in office was broken by Reagan - although it was a close run thing. Prior to Reagan every President elected in a 20 year cycle back to 1840 died in office

    1840 - Harrison - died 1841 - Pneumonia
    1860 - Lincoln died 1863 - Assassinated
    1880 - Garfield died 1881- Assassinated
    1900 - McKinley died 1901 - Assassinated
    1920 - Harding died 1923 - Heart Attack
    1940 - Roosevelt died 1945 - Stroke
    1960 - Kennedy died 1963 - Assassinated

    1980 - Reagan shot but survived
    2000 - GWB; someone threw a pair of shoes at him
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,341
    MattW said:

    [OT Admin] this is the second thread in as many days with "undefined discussion subject".

    Appropriate for PB?
    At least no one's off topic for a change.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 56,390
    RobD said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    By which he means, 'around 4 million people have received the FIRST DOSE of a vaccine.'

    Which is not at all the same thing.
    Is a vaccination without a booster still a vaccine? It confers some protection, more than enough to qualify as a vaccine.
    Assuming that J&J is approved in February, that means (one would think) that most people will be able to receive their second shots of Pfizer/AZN much sooner.
  • felix said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    By which he means, 'around 4 million people have received the FIRST DOSE of a vaccine.'

    Which is not at all the same thing.
    Usual lies and half truths as ever
    Yup I if I were you I'd refuse the UK vaccine and wait for the EU one - much safer and the right thing to do.
    Swings and roundabouts innit

    'UK now has highest Covid death rate in the world'

    https://tinyurl.com/y32ktj7k
    Always assuming you accept the veracity of the rest of the world's numbers. It's not as if Russia or China would just casually drop a few tens of thousands extra dead in their numbers on a busy news day.

    Watch out for Wednesday and the Biden Inauguration for similar "upward revisions"....
    Its also a spectacular cherry pick in a moving pandemic to choose the 7-day death rate as the latest stick to beat the Government with. Quite incredible journalism. I assume they will be as quick when our (so far) excellent vaccine rollout shows tangible results faster than other countries.
    I doubt it. They don't seem very interested in facts, just politics.
  • Scott_xP said:
    Surely lobbying for the survival of your industry is a definable business trip.
    It feels a lot less appropriate to use the Corona-powers at a protest like this.
    Particularly if it's an industry whose interests this government loudly and repeatedly claimed that they were looking out for up until very recently. That won't stop the shameless feckers though.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,518
    Interesting market and I agree Merkel might be worth a flutter. The leader of the free world will surely be keen to meet a new American president asap.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 21,893
    HYUFD said:
    It is amazing what you can achieve when there is a people's militia patrolling the streets.
  • HYUFD said:

    Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.

    The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.

    Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
    Biden must be glad the horrible run of Presidents dying in office was broken by Reagan - although it was a close run thing. Prior to Reagan every President elected in a 20 year cycle back to 1840 died in office

    1840 - Harrison - died 1841 - Pneumonia
    1860 - Lincoln died 1863 - Assassinated
    1880 - Garfield died 1881- Assassinated
    1900 - McKinley died 1901 - Assassinated
    1920 - Harding died 1923 - Heart Attack
    1940 - Roosevelt died 1945 - Stroke
    1960 - Kennedy died 1963 - Assassinated

    1980 - Reagan shot but survived
    The curse of Tippecanoe.

    Bush 2000 - Came very close to being assassinated in 2005.

    I'm still astonished it didn't get more coverage in the news.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/01/11/georgia.grenade/
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,234
    edited January 2021

    HYUFD said:

    Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.

    The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.

    Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
    Biden must be glad the horrible run of Presidents dying in office was broken by Reagan - although it was a close run thing. Prior to Reagan every President elected in a 20 year cycle back to 1840 died in office

    1840 - Harrison - died 1841 - Pneumonia
    1860 - Lincoln died 1863 - Assassinated
    1880 - Garfield died 1881- Assassinated
    1900 - McKinley died 1901 - Assassinated
    1920 - Harding died 1923 - Heart Attack
    1940 - Roosevelt died 1945 - Stroke
    1960 - Kennedy died 1963 - Assassinated

    1980 - Reagan shot but survived
    2000 - GWB; someone threw a pair of shoes at him
    For completeness I should mention I missed out Taylor elected in 1848 who died of gastroenteritis in 1850.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,173

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    Perhaps the new UK/EU neutral zone: NI.

    No, NI is the Demilitarised Zone. The EU is the Federation, we are the Cardassians. Arlene Forster is Quark.
    No, if the EU is the federation then we're the Maquis. The EU is closer to the Borg though. Russia are the Orion syndicate.
    And you are Wesley Crusher
    Christ he was so annoying. I always hoped Worf would eat him.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,132

    HYUFD said:

    Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.

    The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.

    Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
    Biden must be glad the horrible run of Presidents dying in office was broken by Reagan - although it was a close run thing. Prior to Reagan every President elected in a 20 year cycle back to 1840 died in office

    1840 - Harrison - died 1841 - Pneumonia
    1860 - Lincoln died 1863 - Assassinated
    1880 - Garfield died 1881- Assassinated
    1900 - McKinley died 1901 - Assassinated
    1920 - Harding died 1923 - Heart Attack
    1940 - Roosevelt died 1945 - Stroke
    1960 - Kennedy died 1963 - Assassinated

    1980 - Reagan shot but survived
    Roosevelt's last election was in 1944.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,503

    Scott_xP said:
    Surely lobbying for the survival of your industry is a definable business trip.
    It feels a lot less appropriate to use the Corona-powers at a protest like this.
    Particularly if it's an industry whose interests this government loudly and repeatedly claimed that they were looking out for up until very recently. That won't stop the shameless feckers though.
    Can't have Jockanese lorries cluttering up the imperial metropolis, can we?

    Mind, it's not as if they are polluting the Thames by dumping fish overboard, like those types who had Mr Farage on board, as well as a Labour Brexiteer, on their boat ride to the HoC river terrace back in 2016.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,503

    HYUFD said:
    It is amazing what you can achieve when there is a people's militia patrolling the streets.
    They realised someone had counted in the Don't Knows by mistake?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,687
    HYUFD said:

    Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.

    The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.

    Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
    With all due respect to you and your last paragraph, I don't believe some MAGA headcase will be making the rational analysis you are making.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,751
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fauci said yesterday that the US was weeks away from approving both the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines.

    Which implies that the J&J mass trial data is good. (And presumably also that AZ has done a reasonable job of getting the required data to the FDA.)

    The US trial data must complete the picture enough for the FDA. It's a shame that AZ buggered up the UK trial so badly.
    Is it though? From a parochial perspective, having AZ only licenced in the UK is kind of good for our supply at the current time. No competing supply issues... (looks towards Pfizer)
    IIRC (and this may not be correct), AZ has a plant in the UK for their vaccine, as well as one in the US, and have also contracted the Serum Institute of India to make it (the Serum Institute alone will push out 500m doses in 2021 I think).
    The Indian target is 300m people vaccinated by August.
    https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/asia/india-approves-astrazeneca-s-covid-19-vaccine-1.1139147
    That’s some serious production capability they’ve got there.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,808

    HYUFD said:

    Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.

    The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.

    Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
    Biden must be glad the horrible run of Presidents dying in office was broken by Reagan - although it was a close run thing. Prior to Reagan every President elected in a 20 year cycle back to 1840 died in office

    1840 - Harrison - died 1841 - Pneumonia
    1860 - Lincoln died 1863 - Assassinated
    1880 - Garfield died 1881- Assassinated
    1900 - McKinley died 1901 - Assassinated
    1920 - Harding died 1923 - Heart Attack
    1940 - Roosevelt died 1945 - Stroke
    1960 - Kennedy died 1963 - Assassinated

    1980 - Reagan shot but survived
    The curse of Tippecanoe.

    Bush 2000 - Came very close to being assassinated in 2005.

    I'm still astonished it didn't get more coverage in the news.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/01/11/georgia.grenade/
    There was also an attempt to assassinate Bush Sr which led to Clinton bombing Iraq.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1993_cruise_missile_strikes_on_Iraq
  • MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    Perhaps the new UK/EU neutral zone: NI.

    No, NI is the Demilitarised Zone. The EU is the Federation, we are the Cardassians. Arlene Forster is Quark.
    No, if the EU is the federation then we're the Maquis. The EU is closer to the Borg though. Russia are the Orion syndicate.
    And you are Wesley Crusher
    Christ he was so annoying. I always hoped Worf would eat him.
    Will Wheaton on the other hand is delightful.
  • I see the Mail thinks the vaccine roll out is a total disaster....
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,132

    HYUFD said:

    Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.

    The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.

    Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
    Biden must be glad the horrible run of Presidents dying in office was broken by Reagan - although it was a close run thing. Prior to Reagan every President elected in a 20 year cycle back to 1840 died in office

    1840 - Harrison - died 1841 - Pneumonia
    1860 - Lincoln died 1863 - Assassinated
    1880 - Garfield died 1881- Assassinated
    1900 - McKinley died 1901 - Assassinated
    1920 - Harding died 1923 - Heart Attack
    1940 - Roosevelt died 1945 - Stroke
    1960 - Kennedy died 1963 - Assassinated

    1980 - Reagan shot but survived
    The curse of Tippecanoe.

    Bush 2000 - Came very close to being assassinated in 2005.

    I'm still astonished it didn't get more coverage in the news.

    https://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/01/11/georgia.grenade/
    Bush had been re-elected in 2004.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,341
    kle4 said:

    Not the least fault of the whole Trump shitshow is its overweening fcuking pettiness.

    https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1351175420356530177?s=20

    And people suggest she and her husband are not a good fit.
    Jane Means Appleton Pierce has to be in contention.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Pierce#First_Lady_of_the_United_States

  • Not the least fault of the whole Trump shitshow is its overweening fcuking pettiness.

    https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1351175420356530177?s=20

    Compare and contrast with the Bush family showing the Obama family round.... complete with Obama kids using a sloped corridor as a slide, to smiles from all the adults.
    I read that the Obama family were really touched by the efforts that the Bush family made to make them feel welcome and make the handover as smooth as possible. I know Obama also said Bush did everything he could to make the power transition as smooth and professional as possible.
    Would it be fair to say that nothing in his presidency became him like the leaving it?
    "Today was the day that Donald Trump finally became President"?
    I was talking about Bush, or have I missed the point of your comment?
    Its a long-running joke, that Trump is about to become Presidential (when the author of the joke knows he is not). I was joking that Trump could be the same and become Presidential while leaving office (he won't).
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,751

    HYUFD said:

    Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.

    The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.

    Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
    With all due respect to you and your last paragraph, I don't believe some MAGA headcase will be making the rational analysis you are making.
    Must be very weird for the Secret Service when there’s a change in President, given the current extreme political polarisation. The profile of domestic threats to President Biden looks quite different to that which would threaten President Trump.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,801

    felix said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    By which he means, 'around 4 million people have received the FIRST DOSE of a vaccine.'

    Which is not at all the same thing.
    Usual lies and half truths as ever
    Yup I if I were you I'd refuse the UK vaccine and wait for the EU one - much safer and the right thing to do.
    Swings and roundabouts innit

    'UK now has highest Covid death rate in the world'

    https://tinyurl.com/y32ktj7k
    Always assuming you accept the veracity of the rest of the world's numbers. It's not as if Russia or China would just casually drop a few tens of thousands extra dead in their numbers on a busy news day.

    Watch out for Wednesday and the Biden Inauguration for similar "upward revisions"....
    Its also a spectacular cherry pick in a moving pandemic to choose the 7-day death rate as the latest stick to beat the Government with. Quite incredible journalism. I assume they will be as quick when our (so far) excellent vaccine rollout shows tangible results faster than other countries.
    I doubt it. They don't seem very interested in facts, just politics.
    All of the quoted COVID-19 death figures are a bit suspect, there are simply too many variations in how the are accounted for. Excess deaths is a far better measure, because we can all agree on what constitutes a death.

    As I keep pointing out only a couple of weeks ago the Russian statistical authority attributed another 130,000 of 2020's excess deaths to COVID-19, which more than tripled the official number of COVID-19 deaths. So which one is right? Both come from official Russian government sources. Similar issues apply to many other countries, Mexico being another example with a very large excess death total.

    COVID-19 has undoubtedly killed a lot more than 2 million people, even double that is entirely plausible.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,582
    Mr. Eagles, isn't it Wil*?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,751

    I see the Mail thinks the vaccine roll out is a total disaster....

    What? The Mail were positive on this morning’s front page:
    https://twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1350931347393671169/photo/1
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,840
    edited January 2021
    We need to ban dog ownership, they are a menace.

    If not that, they need to be on a leash and muzzled at all times.

    Richmond Park dog walker fined £602 over pet's 'relentless' fatal attack on deer

    Police are urging dog owners to keep their pets on a tight lead after an increase in attacks during lockdown.

    A man has been fined £602 after his dog fatally injured a deer during a "relentless" attack in London's Richmond Park.

    Dramatic footage filmed by a cyclist shows Franck Hiribarne's red setter, Alfie, rushing at the small hind, jumping up at her and dragging her backwards, at around 9am on 1 October last year.

    Despite the efforts of several passers-by to get between the animals, forming a human barrier to stop the attack, Alfie left the deer with deep wounds to her back and tail, which was partially detached.

    The hind also suffered a broken leg after being hit by a car in her attempts to get away.

    She was found a short while later, collapsed in the ferns, and had to be put down by a gamekeeper.

    Mr Hiribarne, from southwest London, pleaded guilty at Wimbledon Magistrates' Court on 15 January to causing or permitting an animal he was in charge of to injure another animal in a royal park. He was fined £602.

    The defendant reported the incident himself to the Royal Parks Office, while witnesses - some of whom described the attack as "relentless" - spoke to officers in a passing police car.


    https://news.sky.com/story/richmond-park-dog-walker-fined-163602-over-pets-relentless-fatal-attack-on-deer-12191357
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,687
    Off topic

    WTF, I have just been charged VAT at 20% over and above purchase price on ebay from a Chinese product for the first time. I assumed it was vat paid, but not so it seems. Apparently "according to the UK 2021 VAT e-commerce package, we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier". Is this another example of Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving?
  • Mr. Eagles, isn't it Wil*?

    Game over, moon pie.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,591
    edited January 2021

    HYUFD said:

    Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.

    The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.

    Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
    Biden must be glad the horrible run of Presidents dying in office was broken by Reagan - although it was a close run thing. Prior to Reagan every President elected in a 20 year cycle back to 1840 died in office

    1840 - Harrison - died 1841 - Pneumonia
    1860 - Lincoln died 1863 - Assassinated
    1880 - Garfield died 1881- Assassinated
    1900 - McKinley died 1901 - Assassinated
    1920 - Harding died 1923 - Heart Attack
    1940 - Roosevelt died 1945 - Stroke
    1960 - Kennedy died 1963 - Assassinated

    1980 - Reagan shot but survived
    Roosevelt's last election was in 1944.
    And Lincoln was re-elected in 1864 and assassinated in 1865, not 1863.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,341
    Sandpit said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Fauci said yesterday that the US was weeks away from approving both the AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson vaccines.

    Which implies that the J&J mass trial data is good. (And presumably also that AZ has done a reasonable job of getting the required data to the FDA.)

    The US trial data must complete the picture enough for the FDA. It's a shame that AZ buggered up the UK trial so badly.
    Is it though? From a parochial perspective, having AZ only licenced in the UK is kind of good for our supply at the current time. No competing supply issues... (looks towards Pfizer)
    IIRC (and this may not be correct), AZ has a plant in the UK for their vaccine, as well as one in the US, and have also contracted the Serum Institute of India to make it (the Serum Institute alone will push out 500m doses in 2021 I think).
    The Indian target is 300m people vaccinated by August.
    https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/asia/india-approves-astrazeneca-s-covid-19-vaccine-1.1139147
    That’s some serious production capability they’ve got there.
    Something around 60% of world capacity.
    Beneficiary of offshoring - which is why we're now having to rebuild domestic production.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,648
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.

    The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.

    Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
    Trump supporters are even crazier than you. I don't think that President Harris would phase them as they have a lot of bullets.

    I don't want either of them assassinated. But the lunatic arrested at the weekend with a forged inauguration pass, guns and bullets shows the threat is clear.
    And if Biden and Harris are assassinated then they end up with President Pelosi who would be a Trump supporter's worst nightmare.

    In any case it is highly unlikely a few crazed backwoodsmen would be able to breach the huge security cordon that now surrounds the President and Vice President or would get anywhere near enough to do so anyway
    First. Anyone who thinks that assassination is a reasonable option will not be put off by the identity of the immediate replacement. They will likely see the act as symbolic, hoping to inspire others to follow their lead and overturn the entirety of the Presidential succession. Having Pelosi as an unelected Acting President would consequently be perfect (temporarily).

    Second. Security of all kinds is often most vulnerable to an inside job. About one-sixth of the US population may believe in the QAnon conspiracy theory. How confident can you be that nobody in the Secret Service holds such beliefs?
  • Mr. Eagles, isn't it Wil*?

    It is, auto-correct strikes again.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 69,341

    MaxPB said:

    felix said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    By which he means, 'around 4 million people have received the FIRST DOSE of a vaccine.'

    Which is not at all the same thing.
    Usual lies and half truths as ever
    Yup I if I were you I'd refuse the UK vaccine and wait for the EU one - much safer and the right thing to do.
    Hopefully when Malc goes to get his jab the needle and vaccine bottle have got Union Flags on them.
    Is it true that the vaccines are infused with British spirit?
    Intravenous gin ?
    Might impress some well known PB posters.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,503

    Off topic

    WTF, I have just been charged VAT at 20% over and above purchase price on ebay from a Chinese product for the first time. I assumed it was vat paid, but not so it seems. Apparently "according to the UK 2021 VAT e-commerce package, we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier". Is this another example of Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving?

    Shouldn't think this is Brexit, unless it was imported into the EU first and VAT paid there.

    Where was it sent from? HMRC and the Post Office/Fedex etc have beenm collecting VAT on certain items sent from outside the UK/EU for years (above a certain trigger level). Not books but e.g. hobby items (in my case).
  • Off topic

    WTF, I have just been charged VAT at 20% over and above purchase price on ebay from a Chinese product for the first time. I assumed it was vat paid, but not so it seems. Apparently "according to the UK 2021 VAT e-commerce package, we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier". Is this another example of Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving?

    No it was a tax change implemented in the budget. Potentially related to Brexit, but entirely the Chancellor's choice.

    Previously eBay was able to list all its Chinese tat sellers as separate entities who would need to sign up to VAT if they met the threshold (so they wouldn't, they'd stay under it then a new tat seller would appear).

    Now eBay is responsibility for those Chinese tat sellers VAT. VAT has always been chargeable on imports, eBay just can't facilitate it being dodged anymore.

    More complicated than that, but that's essentially the crux of the matter.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,582
    Mr. Eagles, ah, auto-correct. The finest creation of the Obsidian Order.
  • Re Welsh vaccine rollout; I've just heard from my dad that an old friend of his who runs a medical supplies company, including the UK's largest tissue bank, offered the Welsh government use of his -80C freezers in Pontyclun to help storing the Pfizer vaccine. They have completed ignored his approach.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,452
    edited January 2021

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.

    The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.

    Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
    Trump supporters are even crazier than you. I don't think that President Harris would phase them as they have a lot of bullets.

    I don't want either of them assassinated. But the lunatic arrested at the weekend with a forged inauguration pass, guns and bullets shows the threat is clear.
    And if Biden and Harris are assassinated then they end up with President Pelosi who would be a Trump supporter's worst nightmare.

    In any case it is highly unlikely a few crazed backwoodsmen would be able to breach the huge security cordon that now surrounds the President and Vice President or would get anywhere near enough to do so anyway
    First. Anyone who thinks that assassination is a reasonable option will not be put off by the identity of the immediate replacement. They will likely see the act as symbolic, hoping to inspire others to follow their lead and overturn the entirety of the Presidential succession. Having Pelosi as an unelected Acting President would consequently be perfect (temporarily).

    Second. Security of all kinds is often most vulnerable to an inside job. About one-sixth of the US population may believe in the QAnon conspiracy theory. How confident can you be that nobody in the Secret Service holds such beliefs?
    It would actually probably be easier for an Antifa to assassinate Trump from Thursday.

    He will then be in Florida with far less security than the incumbent POTUS and if he is convicted in the impeachment would lose his security detail completely.

    Plus the rules of succession ensure that the President Pro Tempore of the Senate, the Cabinet etc all Democrats would follow in line so assassinating Pelosi too would not change the Democrats control of the Federal Government.

    By then the US would effectively be near civil war anyway if it got to that stage
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,687

    I see the Mail thinks the vaccine roll out is a total disaster....

    Whatever happens, Government vaccination PR has been magnificent, which is what matters.
  • Re Welsh vaccine rollout; I've just heard from my dad that an old friend of his who runs a medical supplies company, including the UK's largest tissue bank, offered the Welsh government use of his -80C freezers in Pontyclun to help storing the Pfizer vaccine. They have completed ignored his approach.

    Is freezer capacity an issue?
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,758

    Off topic

    WTF, I have just been charged VAT at 20% over and above purchase price on ebay from a Chinese product for the first time. I assumed it was vat paid, but not so it seems. Apparently "according to the UK 2021 VAT e-commerce package, we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier". Is this another example of Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving?

    Actually no, it has ended a VAT dodge that has been going on for years.

    The prices of products on Amazon and eBay will rise as a result of the closing of a VAT loophole which came into effect on 1 January.

    Ecommerce platforms now need to account for VAT paid on products on their platforms by third-party sellers, deducting the tax at source.

    Fraudulent practices

    The change was made after thousands of sellers were evading tax by using shell companies and fake VAT numbers. Many of the companies doing this were from China.

    Analysis reported in the Times found that prices of many goods have gone up almost overnight.


    https://www.export.org.uk/news/546221/HMRC-closes-VAT-loophole-causing-Amazon-prices-to-surge-overnight.htm
    This isn't only a UK thing, its everyone in the EU.

    Same thing happening with Board Games. A company has just tried to charge VAT over and above the product when it came to shipping costs on both the shipping and the product.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,751

    Off topic

    WTF, I have just been charged VAT at 20% over and above purchase price on ebay from a Chinese product for the first time. I assumed it was vat paid, but not so it seems. Apparently "according to the UK 2021 VAT e-commerce package, we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier". Is this another example of Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving?

    That one isn’t Brexit-specific, it’s part of an EU-wide clampdown on VAT avoidance from all the personal imports of Chinese tat from marketplaces such as eBay.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,687

    Off topic

    WTF, I have just been charged VAT at 20% over and above purchase price on ebay from a Chinese product for the first time. I assumed it was vat paid, but not so it seems. Apparently "according to the UK 2021 VAT e-commerce package, we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier". Is this another example of Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving?

    No it was a tax change implemented in the budget. Potentially related to Brexit, but entirely the Chancellor's choice.

    Previously eBay was able to list all its Chinese tat sellers as separate entities who would need to sign up to VAT if they met the threshold (so they wouldn't, they'd stay under it then a new tat seller would appear).

    Now eBay is responsibility for those Chinese tat sellers VAT. VAT has always been chargeable on imports, eBay just can't facilitate it being dodged anymore.

    More complicated than that, but that's essentially the crux of the matter.
    Thanks.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,687

    Off topic

    WTF, I have just been charged VAT at 20% over and above purchase price on ebay from a Chinese product for the first time. I assumed it was vat paid, but not so it seems. Apparently "according to the UK 2021 VAT e-commerce package, we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier". Is this another example of Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving?

    Actually no, it has ended a VAT dodge that has been going on for years.

    The prices of products on Amazon and eBay will rise as a result of the closing of a VAT loophole which came into effect on 1 January.

    Ecommerce platforms now need to account for VAT paid on products on their platforms by third-party sellers, deducting the tax at source.

    Fraudulent practices

    The change was made after thousands of sellers were evading tax by using shell companies and fake VAT numbers. Many of the companies doing this were from China.

    Analysis reported in the Times found that prices of many goods have gone up almost overnight.


    https://www.export.org.uk/news/546221/HMRC-closes-VAT-loophole-causing-Amazon-prices-to-surge-overnight.htm
    Thanks.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 16,968

    We need to ban dog ownership, they are a menace.

    If not that, they need to be on a leash and muzzled at all times.

    Richmond Park dog walker fined £602 over pet's 'relentless' fatal attack on deer

    Police are urging dog owners to keep their pets on a tight lead after an increase in attacks during lockdown.

    A man has been fined £602 after his dog fatally injured a deer during a "relentless" attack in London's Richmond Park.

    Dramatic footage filmed by a cyclist shows Franck Hiribarne's red setter, Alfie, rushing at the small hind, jumping up at her and dragging her backwards, at around 9am on 1 October last year.

    Despite the efforts of several passers-by to get between the animals, forming a human barrier to stop the attack, Alfie left the deer with deep wounds to her back and tail, which was partially detached.

    The hind also suffered a broken leg after being hit by a car in her attempts to get away.

    She was found a short while later, collapsed in the ferns, and had to be put down by a gamekeeper.

    Mr Hiribarne, from southwest London, pleaded guilty at Wimbledon Magistrates' Court on 15 January to causing or permitting an animal he was in charge of to injure another animal in a royal park. He was fined £602.

    The defendant reported the incident himself to the Royal Parks Office, while witnesses - some of whom described the attack as "relentless" - spoke to officers in a passing police car.


    https://news.sky.com/story/richmond-park-dog-walker-fined-163602-over-pets-relentless-fatal-attack-on-deer-12191357

    Certainly they need to be under control. That need not mean muzzled, and need not mean on a lead at all times. However, like everything else, the bad owners let everyone else down.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.

    The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.

    Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
    Trump supporters are even crazier than you. I don't think that President Harris would phase them as they have a lot of bullets.

    I don't want either of them assassinated. But the lunatic arrested at the weekend with a forged inauguration pass, guns and bullets shows the threat is clear.
    And if Biden and Harris are assassinated then they end up with President Pelosi who would be a Trump supporter's worst nightmare.

    In any case it is highly unlikely a few crazed backwoodsmen would be able to breach the huge security cordon that now surrounds the President and Vice President or would get anywhere near enough to do so anyway
    First. Anyone who thinks that assassination is a reasonable option will not be put off by the identity of the immediate replacement. They will likely see the act as symbolic, hoping to inspire others to follow their lead and overturn the entirety of the Presidential succession. Having Pelosi as an unelected Acting President would consequently be perfect (temporarily).

    Second. Security of all kinds is often most vulnerable to an inside job. About one-sixth of the US population may believe in the QAnon conspiracy theory. How confident can you be that nobody in the Secret Service holds such beliefs?
    You need to be intelligent to be in the Secret Service. To be a believer in QAnon you either have to be clinically insane or you have to be even thicker than the thickest Brexit apologist, and that is very thick indeed
  • Re Welsh vaccine rollout; I've just heard from my dad that an old friend of his who runs a medical supplies company, including the UK's largest tissue bank, offered the Welsh government use of his -80C freezers in Pontyclun to help storing the Pfizer vaccine. They have completed ignored his approach.

    Is freezer capacity an issue?
    I don't know. But to completely ignore his offer is at least seriously rude.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,758

    We need to ban dog ownership, they are a menace.

    If not that, they need to be on a leash and muzzled at all times.

    Richmond Park dog walker fined £602 over pet's 'relentless' fatal attack on deer

    Police are urging dog owners to keep their pets on a tight lead after an increase in attacks during lockdown.

    A man has been fined £602 after his dog fatally injured a deer during a "relentless" attack in London's Richmond Park.

    Dramatic footage filmed by a cyclist shows Franck Hiribarne's red setter, Alfie, rushing at the small hind, jumping up at her and dragging her backwards, at around 9am on 1 October last year.

    Despite the efforts of several passers-by to get between the animals, forming a human barrier to stop the attack, Alfie left the deer with deep wounds to her back and tail, which was partially detached.

    The hind also suffered a broken leg after being hit by a car in her attempts to get away.

    She was found a short while later, collapsed in the ferns, and had to be put down by a gamekeeper.

    Mr Hiribarne, from southwest London, pleaded guilty at Wimbledon Magistrates' Court on 15 January to causing or permitting an animal he was in charge of to injure another animal in a royal park. He was fined £602.

    The defendant reported the incident himself to the Royal Parks Office, while witnesses - some of whom described the attack as "relentless" - spoke to officers in a passing police car.


    https://news.sky.com/story/richmond-park-dog-walker-fined-163602-over-pets-relentless-fatal-attack-on-deer-12191357

    What is it with dogs and Richmond Park? Fenton was the canary in the coal mine ;)
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,656

    Off topic

    WTF, I have just been charged VAT at 20% over and above purchase price on ebay from a Chinese product for the first time. I assumed it was vat paid, but not so it seems. Apparently "according to the UK 2021 VAT e-commerce package, we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier". Is this another example of Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving?

    Sounds as though you can blame the EU for that one. ;)
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,497
    edited January 2021
    Carnyx said:

    Off topic

    WTF, I have just been charged VAT at 20% over and above purchase price on ebay from a Chinese product for the first time. I assumed it was vat paid, but not so it seems. Apparently "according to the UK 2021 VAT e-commerce package, we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier". Is this another example of Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving?

    Shouldn't think this is Brexit, unless it was imported into the EU first and VAT paid there.

    Where was it sent from? HMRC and the Post Office/Fedex etc have beenm collecting VAT on certain items sent from outside the UK/EU for years (above a certain trigger level). Not books but e.g. hobby items (in my case).
    When I bought stuff from China it usually came with 'Hobby items, $10' on the outside. Regardless of actual value.

    Trying to avoid Chinese tat these days.
  • Mary_BattyMary_Batty Posts: 630
    edited January 2021

    Re Welsh vaccine rollout; I've just heard from my dad that an old friend of his who runs a medical supplies company, including the UK's largest tissue bank, offered the Welsh government use of his -80C freezers in Pontyclun to help storing the Pfizer vaccine. They have completed ignored his approach.

    Is freezer capacity an issue?
    I don't know. But to completely ignore his offer is at least seriously rude.
    Whom did he write to, and how long ago?
  • The Chinese VAT dodge on ebay has been going on way too long.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,942

    We need to ban dog ownership, they are a menace.

    If not that, they need to be on a leash and muzzled at all times.

    Richmond Park dog walker fined £602 over pet's 'relentless' fatal attack on deer

    Police are urging dog owners to keep their pets on a tight lead after an increase in attacks during lockdown.

    A man has been fined £602 after his dog fatally injured a deer during a "relentless" attack in London's Richmond Park.

    Dramatic footage filmed by a cyclist shows Franck Hiribarne's red setter, Alfie, rushing at the small hind, jumping up at her and dragging her backwards, at around 9am on 1 October last year.

    Despite the efforts of several passers-by to get between the animals, forming a human barrier to stop the attack, Alfie left the deer with deep wounds to her back and tail, which was partially detached.

    The hind also suffered a broken leg after being hit by a car in her attempts to get away.

    She was found a short while later, collapsed in the ferns, and had to be put down by a gamekeeper.

    Mr Hiribarne, from southwest London, pleaded guilty at Wimbledon Magistrates' Court on 15 January to causing or permitting an animal he was in charge of to injure another animal in a royal park. He was fined £602.

    The defendant reported the incident himself to the Royal Parks Office, while witnesses - some of whom described the attack as "relentless" - spoke to officers in a passing police car.


    https://news.sky.com/story/richmond-park-dog-walker-fined-163602-over-pets-relentless-fatal-attack-on-deer-12191357

    Red setters are horrid little dogs. They look nice though.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 41,518
    edited January 2021

    Not the least fault of the whole Trump shitshow is its overweening fcuking pettiness.

    https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1351175420356530177?s=20

    Compare and contrast with the Bush family showing the Obama family round.... complete with Obama kids using a sloped corridor as a slide, to smiles from all the adults.
    Indeed. And well done Bush for that.
    But for me an even starker and more telling comparison is between Obama and Trump.
    Obama did a courteous and professional handover to a man who had smeared him left right & centre, including the promotion of an overtly racist conspiracy theory about his birthplace.
    4 years later Trump won't admit losing the election and thus refutes the democratic process.
    He foments social unrest and riots, does no transition at all, and scarpers off to Florida rather than even meet his successor and shake hands.
    This gap in quality between two human beings is surely about as great as it could possibly be barring outlandish thought experiments like Katie Hopkins and Dame Judi Dench.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,689

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    Perhaps the new UK/EU neutral zone: NI.

    No, NI is the Demilitarised Zone. The EU is the Federation, we are the Cardassians. Arlene Forster is Quark.
    No, if the EU is the federation then we're the Maquis. The EU is closer to the Borg though. Russia are the Orion syndicate.
    And you are Wesley Crusher
    Christ he was so annoying. I always hoped Worf would eat him.
    Will Wheaton on the other hand is delightful.
    The reason why Wesley Crusher is hated is from memory a writers strike which meant that a number of Wesley Crusher focused stories (from which only 1 was supposed to be used) all had to be used as nothing else was available.
  • SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,758
    eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    Perhaps the new UK/EU neutral zone: NI.

    No, NI is the Demilitarised Zone. The EU is the Federation, we are the Cardassians. Arlene Forster is Quark.
    No, if the EU is the federation then we're the Maquis. The EU is closer to the Borg though. Russia are the Orion syndicate.
    And you are Wesley Crusher
    Christ he was so annoying. I always hoped Worf would eat him.
    Will Wheaton on the other hand is delightful.
    The reason why Wesley Crusher is hated is from memory a writers strike which meant that a number of Wesley Crusher focused stories (from which only 1 was supposed to be used) all had to be used as nothing else was available.
    And that he was a Gary Stu.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,007
    edited January 2021

    Off topic

    WTF, I have just been charged VAT at 20% over and above purchase price on ebay from a Chinese product for the first time. I assumed it was vat paid, but not so it seems. Apparently "according to the UK 2021 VAT e-commerce package, we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier". Is this another example of Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving?

    No it was a tax change implemented in the budget. Potentially related to Brexit, but entirely the Chancellor's choice.

    Previously eBay was able to list all its Chinese tat sellers as separate entities who would need to sign up to VAT if they met the threshold (so they wouldn't, they'd stay under it then a new tat seller would appear).

    Now eBay is responsibility for those Chinese tat sellers VAT. VAT has always been chargeable on imports, eBay just can't facilitate it being dodged anymore.

    More complicated than that, but that's essentially the crux of the matter.
    So good news for the Chancellor, in that ebay are not going to have no VAT registration, unlike dodgy Chinese tat peddlars? The VAT will pour in....
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,584
    edited January 2021
    kinabalu said:

    Not the least fault of the whole Trump shitshow is its overweening fcuking pettiness.

    https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1351175420356530177?s=20

    Compare and contrast with the Bush family showing the Obama family round.... complete with Obama kids using a sloped corridor as a slide, to smiles from all the adults.
    Indeed. And well done Bush for that. But for me an even starker and more telling comparison is between Obama and Trump.

    Obama did a courteous and professional handover to a man who had smeared him left right & centre, including the promotion of an overtly racist conspiracy theory about his birthplace. 4 years later Trump won't admit losing the election and refutes the democratic process, foments social unrest and riots, does no transition at all, and scarpers off to Florida rather than even meet his successor and shake hands.

    This gap in quality between two human beings is surely about as great as it could be possibly be barring outlandish thought experiments like Katie Hopkins and Dame Judi Dench.
    I'm sure with just a wee bit more healing and reconciliation Trump and his followers can change for the better. One more push, comrade!
  • Off topic

    WTF, I have just been charged VAT at 20% over and above purchase price on ebay from a Chinese product for the first time. I assumed it was vat paid, but not so it seems. Apparently "according to the UK 2021 VAT e-commerce package, we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier". Is this another example of Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving?

    No it was a tax change implemented in the budget. Potentially related to Brexit, but entirely the Chancellor's choice.

    Previously eBay was able to list all its Chinese tat sellers as separate entities who would need to sign up to VAT if they met the threshold (so they wouldn't, they'd stay under it then a new tat seller would appear).

    Now eBay is responsibility for those Chinese tat sellers VAT. VAT has always been chargeable on imports, eBay just can't facilitate it being dodged anymore.

    More complicated than that, but that's essentially the crux of the matter.
    So good news for the Chancellor, in that ebay are not going to have no VAT registration, unlike dodgy Chinese tat peddlars? The VAT will pour in....
    That's the point. Not just eBay but Amazon too.

    They're now responsible for their own VAT they're facilitating then have to chase their clients for it, rather than HMRC dealing with every client separately they'll now deal direct with Amazon and eBay.

    Again more complicated but that's the basic point.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,687
    Carnyx said:

    Off topic

    WTF, I have just been charged VAT at 20% over and above purchase price on ebay from a Chinese product for the first time. I assumed it was vat paid, but not so it seems. Apparently "according to the UK 2021 VAT e-commerce package, we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier". Is this another example of Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving?

    Shouldn't think this is Brexit, unless it was imported into the EU first and VAT paid there.

    Where was it sent from? HMRC and the Post Office/Fedex etc have beenm collecting VAT on certain items sent from outside the UK/EU for years (above a certain trigger level). Not books but e.g. hobby items (in my case).
    Collected at checkout by eBay, fortunately the item was only £6.50, so no big deal. Over the years I have been hit by HMRC for customs and VAT charges for high value items from the US, Japan and Australia, via the courier, but never Chinese tat.

    Good explanations on here from TSE and Thommo.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 17,648
    HYUFD said:

    By then the US would effectively be near civil war anyway if it got to that stage

    Yes, that was my point. If they manage to provoke a civil war then the Presidential rules of succession don't really matter any more. That's what they would be aiming for, not deciding they prefer one Democrat over another.
  • We need to ban dog ownership, they are a menace.

    If not that, they need to be on a leash and muzzled at all times.

    Richmond Park dog walker fined £602 over pet's 'relentless' fatal attack on deer

    Police are urging dog owners to keep their pets on a tight lead after an increase in attacks during lockdown.

    A man has been fined £602 after his dog fatally injured a deer during a "relentless" attack in London's Richmond Park.

    Dramatic footage filmed by a cyclist shows Franck Hiribarne's red setter, Alfie, rushing at the small hind, jumping up at her and dragging her backwards, at around 9am on 1 October last year.

    Despite the efforts of several passers-by to get between the animals, forming a human barrier to stop the attack, Alfie left the deer with deep wounds to her back and tail, which was partially detached.

    The hind also suffered a broken leg after being hit by a car in her attempts to get away.

    She was found a short while later, collapsed in the ferns, and had to be put down by a gamekeeper.

    Mr Hiribarne, from southwest London, pleaded guilty at Wimbledon Magistrates' Court on 15 January to causing or permitting an animal he was in charge of to injure another animal in a royal park. He was fined £602.

    The defendant reported the incident himself to the Royal Parks Office, while witnesses - some of whom described the attack as "relentless" - spoke to officers in a passing police car.


    https://news.sky.com/story/richmond-park-dog-walker-fined-163602-over-pets-relentless-fatal-attack-on-deer-12191357

    Certainly they need to be under control. That need not mean muzzled, and need not mean on a lead at all times. However, like everything else, the bad owners let everyone else down.
    I know, my friend had a pair of Rottweilers, he had them since they were puppies, they were the most dumb dogs you'd ever meet, it was very hard to be afraid of dogs that used to bark at their own farts and get scared of their own reflections in the patio door.

    My friend said if there was ever a break in at his house, the burglars had to give the dogs some sausages and they'd help carry the TV out for them.
  • Re Welsh vaccine rollout; I've just heard from my dad that an old friend of his who runs a medical supplies company, including the UK's largest tissue bank, offered the Welsh government use of his -80C freezers in Pontyclun to help storing the Pfizer vaccine. They have completed ignored his approach.

    Is freezer capacity an issue?
    I don't know. But to completely ignore his offer is at least seriously rude.
    Whom did he write to, and how long ago?
    I don't know who he wrote to, but I know he wrote twice and I imagine he'd know who to write to. His company has been supplying PPE to South Wales Police and NHS hospitals.
  • We need to ban dog ownership, they are a menace.

    If not that, they need to be on a leash and muzzled at all times.

    Richmond Park dog walker fined £602 over pet's 'relentless' fatal attack on deer

    Police are urging dog owners to keep their pets on a tight lead after an increase in attacks during lockdown.

    A man has been fined £602 after his dog fatally injured a deer during a "relentless" attack in London's Richmond Park.

    Dramatic footage filmed by a cyclist shows Franck Hiribarne's red setter, Alfie, rushing at the small hind, jumping up at her and dragging her backwards, at around 9am on 1 October last year.

    Despite the efforts of several passers-by to get between the animals, forming a human barrier to stop the attack, Alfie left the deer with deep wounds to her back and tail, which was partially detached.

    The hind also suffered a broken leg after being hit by a car in her attempts to get away.

    She was found a short while later, collapsed in the ferns, and had to be put down by a gamekeeper.

    Mr Hiribarne, from southwest London, pleaded guilty at Wimbledon Magistrates' Court on 15 January to causing or permitting an animal he was in charge of to injure another animal in a royal park. He was fined £602.

    The defendant reported the incident himself to the Royal Parks Office, while witnesses - some of whom described the attack as "relentless" - spoke to officers in a passing police car.


    https://news.sky.com/story/richmond-park-dog-walker-fined-163602-over-pets-relentless-fatal-attack-on-deer-12191357

    Certainly they need to be under control. That need not mean muzzled, and need not mean on a lead at all times. However, like everything else, the bad owners let everyone else down.
    There are a lot more bad owners thanks to Covid. The pavements round here are like an obstacle course thanks to non-scooping dog owners. This time last year they were clean.

    Speaking of new dog owners, according to one of the front pages this morning, Boris is to relax the rules on dog-walking or something (tbh I did not read it).

  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,570
    On topic, based on previous presidents' behaviour, either Canada or Mexico is surely likely to be Biden's first international visit. Trump was the exception, going to the Middle East first, but other presidents going back at least to Reagan have gone to one of the US's North American neighbours first. After that it seems like the UK could be first. It's a bit hard to believe that Biden won't leave his own continent before November, although I guess he doesn't need the air miles.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,942

    HYUFD said:

    Biden will be shot before he has chance to visit any other countries. Reagan was only 2 months in before he took a bullet, with Biden the level of crazy is dialled all the way up to Spaceforce.

    The security around a US President is now far more intense than it was under Reagan and certainly than under JFK. Biden will not be allowed out of the White House without a mini army and huge Secret Service and police escort around him and snipers on every roof.

    Plus if Biden was assassinated you would get President Harris who is even worse from the perspective of a Trump supporter
    Trump supporters are even crazier than you. I don't think that President Harris would phase them as they have a lot of bullets.

    I don't want either of them assassinated. But the lunatic arrested at the weekend with a forged inauguration pass, guns and bullets shows the threat is clear.
    No it doesn't, he turned out to be a security guard.
  • eek said:

    MaxPB said:

    RobD said:

    Perhaps the new UK/EU neutral zone: NI.

    No, NI is the Demilitarised Zone. The EU is the Federation, we are the Cardassians. Arlene Forster is Quark.
    No, if the EU is the federation then we're the Maquis. The EU is closer to the Borg though. Russia are the Orion syndicate.
    And you are Wesley Crusher
    Christ he was so annoying. I always hoped Worf would eat him.
    Will Wheaton on the other hand is delightful.
    The reason why Wesley Crusher is hated is from memory a writers strike which meant that a number of Wesley Crusher focused stories (from which only 1 was supposed to be used) all had to be used as nothing else was available.
    Yup, he was a poorly written charachter.

    The other issue was TNG had a lot of executive producers and writers who didn't stay long, so there was no good plan for him.

    It was only when Michael Piller joined that he became a decent character.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,687
    edited January 2021
    RobD said:

    Off topic

    WTF, I have just been charged VAT at 20% over and above purchase price on ebay from a Chinese product for the first time. I assumed it was vat paid, but not so it seems. Apparently "according to the UK 2021 VAT e-commerce package, we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier". Is this another example of Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving?

    Sounds as though you can blame the EU for that one. ;)
    So it seems...but, but where is my post Brexit, sod the EU, sovereignty bonus? I thought we had left!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,452
    edited January 2021

    HYUFD said:

    By then the US would effectively be near civil war anyway if it got to that stage

    Yes, that was my point. If they manage to provoke a civil war then the Presidential rules of succession don't really matter any more. That's what they would be aiming for, not deciding they prefer one Democrat over another.
    By that stage Trump, assuming he had not himself been assassinated by an Antifa activist, would be a latter day Jefferson Davies and President of a latter day Confederacy from Florida (all but 2 of the 11 states of the old Confederacy still voted for Trump last November despite Biden's winning the US overall).

    Whoever was still the Democrat President would be effectively a latter day Lincoln, whether it then broke out into full scale war would probably depend on whether Trump was able to get enough of the military to join him and DC was committed enough to go to war to prevent the southern and most of the border states seceding
  • felixfelix Posts: 15,143

    felix said:

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:
    By which he means, 'around 4 million people have received the FIRST DOSE of a vaccine.'

    Which is not at all the same thing.
    Usual lies and half truths as ever
    Yup I if I were you I'd refuse the UK vaccine and wait for the EU one - much safer and the right thing to do.
    Swings and roundabouts innit

    'UK now has highest Covid death rate in the world'

    https://tinyurl.com/y32ktj7k
    I'll put you down for a no to the vaccine then.?
  • We need to ban dog ownership, they are a menace.

    If not that, they need to be on a leash and muzzled at all times.

    Richmond Park dog walker fined £602 over pet's 'relentless' fatal attack on deer

    Police are urging dog owners to keep their pets on a tight lead after an increase in attacks during lockdown.

    A man has been fined £602 after his dog fatally injured a deer during a "relentless" attack in London's Richmond Park.

    Dramatic footage filmed by a cyclist shows Franck Hiribarne's red setter, Alfie, rushing at the small hind, jumping up at her and dragging her backwards, at around 9am on 1 October last year.

    Despite the efforts of several passers-by to get between the animals, forming a human barrier to stop the attack, Alfie left the deer with deep wounds to her back and tail, which was partially detached.

    The hind also suffered a broken leg after being hit by a car in her attempts to get away.

    She was found a short while later, collapsed in the ferns, and had to be put down by a gamekeeper.

    Mr Hiribarne, from southwest London, pleaded guilty at Wimbledon Magistrates' Court on 15 January to causing or permitting an animal he was in charge of to injure another animal in a royal park. He was fined £602.

    The defendant reported the incident himself to the Royal Parks Office, while witnesses - some of whom described the attack as "relentless" - spoke to officers in a passing police car.


    https://news.sky.com/story/richmond-park-dog-walker-fined-163602-over-pets-relentless-fatal-attack-on-deer-12191357

    Certainly they need to be under control. That need not mean muzzled, and need not mean on a lead at all times. However, like everything else, the bad owners let everyone else down.
    I know, my friend had a pair of Rottweilers, he had them since they were puppies, they were the most dumb dogs you'd ever meet, it was very hard to be afraid of dogs that used to bark at their own farts and get scared of their own reflections in the patio door.

    My friend said if there was ever a break in at his house, the burglars had to give the dogs some sausages and they'd help carry the TV out for them.
    Wait till your toddler daughter tries to kiss them, and they mistake it for an attack.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,724
    Afternoon all :)

    I'm sure any visit of Biden's to the UK will receive as much positive coverage as did Obama's first visit. I can certainly imagine plenty of cheering crowds in London and elsewhere and that will further raise the feelgood mood which we are told by some has already ensured Conservative re-election in 2024.

    Why not go for a snap autumn poll, Boris - the only thing better than a majority of 80 would be a majority of 280?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,503

    Carnyx said:

    Off topic

    WTF, I have just been charged VAT at 20% over and above purchase price on ebay from a Chinese product for the first time. I assumed it was vat paid, but not so it seems. Apparently "according to the UK 2021 VAT e-commerce package, we will collect and remit VAT where eBay is deemed supplier". Is this another example of Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving?

    Shouldn't think this is Brexit, unless it was imported into the EU first and VAT paid there.

    Where was it sent from? HMRC and the Post Office/Fedex etc have beenm collecting VAT on certain items sent from outside the UK/EU for years (above a certain trigger level). Not books but e.g. hobby items (in my case).
    Collected at checkout by eBay, fortunately the item was only £6.50, so no big deal. Over the years I have been hit by HMRC for customs and VAT charges for high value items from the US, Japan and Australia, via the courier, but never Chinese tat.

    Good explanations on here from TSE and Thommo.
    Indeed re the explanations. Actually, did you have to pay a flat fee as well?

    If you get charged via the PO you have to pay a flat fee of about £10-£16, which is only partly mitigated by the fact that there is a minimum level of value (including P&P) below which VAT is not charged (about £15-£20, I forget what) and therefore no ley made. So if eBay don't charge a flat fee thenthey are still doing rather better for themselves than many other suppliers. Which raises some questions ...
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,729
    kinabalu said:

    Not the least fault of the whole Trump shitshow is its overweening fcuking pettiness.

    https://twitter.com/anneapplebaum/status/1351175420356530177?s=20

    Compare and contrast with the Bush family showing the Obama family round.... complete with Obama kids using a sloped corridor as a slide, to smiles from all the adults.
    Indeed. And well done Bush for that.
    But for me an even starker and more telling comparison is between Obama and Trump.
    Obama did a courteous and professional handover to a man who had smeared him left right & centre, including the promotion of an overtly racist conspiracy theory about his birthplace.
    4 years later Trump won't admit losing the election and thus refutes the democratic process.
    He foments social unrest and riots, does no transition at all, and scarpers off to Florida rather than even meet his successor and shake hands.
    This gap in quality between two human beings is surely about as great as it could possibly be barring outlandish thought experiments like Katie Hopkins and Dame Judi Dench.
    But for me an even starker and more telling comparison is between {nearly anyone vaguely on the same planet as decency} and Trump.

    It's a graph. In corner you have Bernie Sanders to George W. Bush. Dick Cheney even. You have to zoom out a long, long way before Trump and his ilk show up. By then, Sanders and Cheney are practically one dot.
  • On topic, based on previous presidents' behaviour, either Canada or Mexico is surely likely to be Biden's first international visit. Trump was the exception, going to the Middle East first, but other presidents going back at least to Reagan have gone to one of the US's North American neighbours first. After that it seems like the UK could be first. It's a bit hard to believe that Biden won't leave his own continent before November, although I guess he doesn't need the air miles.

    He is due to attend the G7 meeting here in the UK in June to which Boris has invited Australia, India and South Korea as guests
This discussion has been closed.